💡 Bring back game dev role

[bold tree]

Please discuss this idea civilly, don't forget to vote on this idea in #📝︱server-suggestions!

[tepid bear]

wdym @inland roost

[inland roost]

You guys removed game dev role?

[inland roost]

I was prepping for dev role even got my modeling ranked and was prepping my b3 application and found out younall shadow removed dev role

[tepid bear]

lol everyone hated them

for some reason

Even tho the original poll had a big lead in upvotes, after I released them a new poll showed up with a ton of downvotes.

[inland roost]

[inland roost]

So because it was hard to get it was hated

Does not mean it should have been removed

I lost my want to keep getting ranked

[tepid bear]

Idk bruh

Everyone asked for it

Then I made it

Then it got mass downvoted

Then I deleted it

People just love to hate things

Even when they are not impacted by it at all

[gusty lance]

no

absolutely nothing to do with it

it was useless and represented nothing

I already pleaded my case in staff chat im not repeating it here

[inland roost]

It made it to public and it was removed behind closed doors? It represented and rounded user not an isolated singleton.

Having s3 for example in 3 roles means allot more so the diffrence between s3 and s4 is mostly micro optimizing

But when it comes to commisions and knowledge in game dev those with game dev roles would know more and be more flexible then a person who is s2 or s3 alone.

[tepid bear]

yeah like scripting and ui can work really well together

or modeling and building

its fine tho

[inland roost]

you dangled a cool role and I was going to chase it

And yall took it away privately

[alpine walrus]

I know, I did kinda like these roles lol

[gusty lance]

yea

thats called

seeing a person with two roles

[tepid bear]

fun haters

[inland roost]

Yal does not want it because he's trying to rank up in scripting :/

[swift walrus]

It’s absolutely useless

[inland roost]

I'm noticing low ranks think it's useless.

[gusty lance]

💀

[swift walrus]

Because it is

[inland roost]

Point proven.

I dont think it's a role those without 2 ranks should be voting on

And game developers should be well rounded

[swift walrus]

Why shouldn’t we vote?

Some bogus role won’t decide whether people can vote

[inland roost]

How can you have a say and not even have one role? You can't speak in pro scripting or pro dev

Just like that game devs have multiple skillsets. Not just one.... not none.

[swift walrus]

So what ?

[swift walrus]

Anyone can have a skill role

Who cares if you don’t

[inland roost]

Not anyone can have multiple skilled roles

[swift walrus]

So ?

[inland roost]

Only those who put time into learning multiple things / understand them?

[swift walrus]

Putting time for a skill role ?

[inland roost]

Its not hard to apply. Its hard to meet requirments.

[swift walrus]

Must have nothing else to do

[inland roost]

See that's why we NEED a dev role

[swift walrus]

Nuh uh

Roles are useless in the first place

[inland roost]

If you think nothing else to do you dont understand game dev. Its literally a career choice for allot. People make good money on it.

As for roles they are shown to prove someone meets a standard

[swift walrus]

It’s just esthetic more roles is just useless

[inland roost]

Depends on how its used.

[swift walrus]

We’re talking about roles

Not about game development

[inland roost]

Yes but those roles could help connect devs with other actual devs and weed out the rage baiters

[swift walrus]

This means its not worth spending time for a virtual role

[inland roost]

If your rank 2+ in 3 or more things. You are probably not looking to commision out or do commisions. You are actively working on games.

[swift walrus]

Cool ig

[inland roost]

Taking your old work and tossing it into a application is taking time? 30 seconds?🤣

[swift walrus]

.

[inland roost]

My modeling 3 role i took old models. Tossed them into a application. Awnsered some questions and got m3

[swift walrus]

It aint worth learning for these roles

Cool for you

[inland roost]

The role is not meant for "normal" people but those who actively make / release / earn off roblox

I'm not talking the stupid 500-1000 robux commisions. Im talking 50k+ starting

[swift walrus]

We’re all normal people, you do not worth more than any other human in life because you are actively releasing roblox games

Anyone can have roles

I don’t have time to waste arguing anymore

[inland roost]

Its a roblox game dev server, so that's wrong.

Show and prove your skill and that it meets a base line requirment.

That way when you speak / sign onto a project people know you meet x requirment.

Saying they are all the same is lunacy.

@tepid bear still think it should be brought back but more time vested into what the role is actually meant for.

For example giving devs an actual place and bringing more weight to ranks / multi ranks and allowing them to connect with others who are actually trying to do the same.

Let's devs avoid rage bait and the nonsense of trying to build teams / look for people to coop with and give them a space for their hard work. Getting multiple roles is enough of a pain.

[gusty lance]

the role is completely useless and represents nothing

you literally cannot defend that with anything other than "its fun though"

[inland roost]

It shows a higher skill level in multiple areas without the need of actually clicking on the name. Same could be said about all rank 1's it shows nothing

It's fun though

[alpine walrus]

It’s fun though

[swift walrus]

It's better clicking on a name than actually wasting time for creating roles

[inland roost]

It was already created and was a nice addition for anyone going after multiple roles.

I dont think people outside the ones targeting it would have a reason to complain. If that's the logic the popular dev / celebrity roles should be removed

So should ranker,

[swift walrus]

But there's no reason to get it

Besides wanting to have it

which is pointless

[inland roost]

Yup so lets remove celebrity, popular dev and ranker @gusty lance

[swift walrus]

No, these roles might have perks with it, which makes it different

[gusty lance]

no..

[inland roost]

They dont

[gusty lance]

they actually represent something

[inland roost]

They dont

[gusty lance]

they do?

its in the name

big hint

[swift walrus]

They represent their popularity

[inland roost]

I got visits ? Vs I have multiple skills?

Anyone who programs can get scripting

Only a dev is getting 3 roles.

[gusty lance]

dev role is possibly one of the worst ways you could represent being good at multiple things

[swift walrus]

wdym ?

[inland roost]

Then how should it be represented?

[gusty lance]

its quite literally the role of

[swift walrus]

lmfao

[gusty lance]

"i have the same skill rank in atleast 2 skills"

[gusty lance]

it shouldnt

we can only accurately mesure single skills

[inland roost]

Scriper = programming
Modeler = modeler
Builder = drag and drop
Gui = art student

None of these show dev skills

[gusty lance]

if you really want to you can do something like the sum of all skill roles

[swift walrus]

Okay.

[inland roost]

Actual devs work with multiple skills to create a game.

[gusty lance]

but dev role is quite literally

just

repreesnting

some arbitary condition

[inland roost]

Look at the people who have 3 skills roles 2+ and show me what one is not a dev

[swift walrus]

A developer is just someone developing a game

[gusty lance]

that may or may not actually correlate to

being good at multiple things

plus

the name "dev" is extremely misleading

[inland roost]

So what should it be?

[gusty lance]

infact the skill represented so little they had no idea what else to name it

it shouldnt exist

[inland roost]

Master?

[gusty lance]

because there is no name for it

[inland roost]

Master rank ~

[gusty lance]

wtf is msater

[swift walrus]

Master ?

[gusty lance]

do i have diciples now

[swift walrus]

its even worse

[swift walrus]

🤣

[inland roost]

Yes if you have multiple ranks

I'd 3+ 2+

[swift walrus]

Okay, but what'st the point of adding the role ?

[gusty lance]

if i was s4 at scripting and s2 at every other skill role i think id be better off than s3 at scripting and building and nothing for everything else

but according to the rank

id only be dev 2

over dev 3

[inland roost]

The orginal was nice because it was 3

[gusty lance]

thats even worse

[inland roost]

Builder 3, vfx 3, scripting 3

For dev3

[gusty lance]

infact the thing getting reduced to 2

is the only thing preventing

alot of other arguments from me

[swift walrus]

anyways i doubt they add the role back (i hope)

[inland roost]

Getting it reduced too 2 is no good

It should be 3 skill levels

[gusty lance]

you clearly have no idea what you even want

[inland roost]

I do

[inland roost]

Iv been saying it

[gusty lance]

what do you want

tell me

[inland roost]

3 ranks of level 2+ = dev role

Of that level

[gusty lance]

im not embarking on sidequests for u

you can be a completionist without being a dev

but most importantly

you can very much be a dev just being proficient in one skill

or better yet 2, which the 3 minimum for your proposed version doesnt work with

[swift walrus]

Agreed

[inland roost]

It does but that's the diffrence of a guy who started 2 weeks ago and 2 years ago

[inland roost]

Your not developing shit as a full game with one skill.

[swift walrus]

You can buy services

You can make your own game by buying some assets and make some of the work by yourself

[gusty lance]

is this the dev role or the solo dev role

because that would be the most niche role ever

[swift walrus]

Yeah, being a dev is not about having the competences to make a game alone

[inland roost]

Very few people can affored to buy services.

And if your scripter who only scripts and that's it sure you can devlop a system. Though you can't polish it.

[swift walrus]

Cuz they are mostly kids without any budgets

[inland roost]

Devlopment is start to finish

Make a movement system? You need animation and vfx ontop of scripts.

[swift walrus]

But

Id even know why were talking about this

Like

How does it prove the necessity of having the dev role

[inland roost]

Dev role is an easy way to determine if someone has a bunch of skills and should be ranked higher then normal skills..for example a dev role 3 should be higher then s3. As your not just scripting your level 3 in 2 other roles.

That should deserve more attention then popular dev

Like congrats you got a million visit. Dude with dev role can help you get a million visits.

Arguing that is arguing ranks in general

[gusty lance]

`

[swift walrus]

No

[gusty lance]

prowess in development skills does not garuntee you prowess in marketing, business, leadership, and creative design

[swift walrus]

You may have the skills, but it doesn’t mean you’ll have the same amount of visits

[inland roost]

Nor does a million visits most of them who have the role have 1 game that popped

[gusty lance]

why would they be ranked higher than normal skills? skills arnt some sort of respect meter

its meant to actually represent skill

in that specific thing

[inland roost]

So having multiple skills shouldent be recognized l?

[swift walrus]

Couldnt agree more

[gusty lance]

cool dude you can build.. this is pro scripting though..

[inland roost]

If i get s3, v3, b3, a3 that does not show multiple skills?

[swift walrus]

Thats not what he said

[inland roost]

That is.

[swift walrus]

How

[gusty lance]

great suggestion. require 2+ games for popular dev

go do that

[inland roost]

How ranks work your highest rank is shown

[inland roost]

I like that too

[gusty lance]

what does that mean to me?

if im trying to hire someone im looking for specific skills

not a jack of all trades

[inland roost]

Thats when you would check the dev sub roles.. as on for highering they would mention their main

If I had the dev role and said

(Scripter for hire) they know I'm a scripter

[gusty lance]

so if your going to check the regular skill roles whats the purpose of dev?

you dont hire someone to take on two roles at once and if you did theyd be specialised two roles, not just any

[swift walrus]

This debate will never end

[inland roost]

Because it highlight those who have multiple skill roles

[gusty lance]

theres literally no reason for this to exist

[inland roost]

Correct or 3+

For example I'm m3/s3 I was originally working on my b3 application

[gusty lance]

what?

[inland roost]

Though I dropped ot because what's the point?

[inland roost]

In a for hire post you say what you are so people can search for you with key words

No one scrolls for hire.

[gusty lance]

so?

[inland roost]

If I want a scripter I go to for hire and type scripter

[gusty lance]

do that then?

[inland roost]

If I see for hire and a dev role I know they script + do other things at that level wothout looking

But what if I want a scripter who does gui? Can edit / script my gui?

[gusty lance]

having a dev role does not garuntee that you script

they could do ui, building, and gfx

for all you know

youd still need to check them

like you would if they didnt have it

[inland roost]

If I'm dev 3 and my for hire has scripting in it. Im a scripter

[swift walrus]

Changes nothing to the fact you were originally looking for a scripter, I know right ?

[gusty lance]

it literally changes nothing ..

[gusty lance]

good for you, but im saying thats not garunteed

so once again it changes nothing

[inland roost]

It is if they have scripting

If I'm dev role with dev3

[gusty lance]

yea it would also be if they didnt have the dev role

[inland roost]

My posts says scripting

[gusty lance]

and still had scripting

🤯

[inland roost]

Im going to be dev 3 with scripting 3

[gusty lance]

immortal

if you see a hiring post

[inland roost]

But I'm not just a scripter

[gusty lance]

and someone has a dev role

what does that tell you

[swift walrus]

You just had to check their profile if you were really interested to have their services

[inland roost]

They are skilled in 3+ things

[swift walrus]

Good for them

[gusty lance]

does that mean they are necessarily skilled in the thing your looking for?

[inland roost]

We are talking about attention / ability

[inland roost]

Attraction *

[inland roost]

If i type scripting and go to their post they will have it

[gusty lance]

if your looking for a scripter and your garunteed only scripters show up

[swift walrus]

If they want to attract their clients they will just add it onto their portfolio/presentation message

[gusty lance]

what does them having a dev role change

[inland roost]

This is how people search

But if i see a post that's not yellow / red then id be intrested in what other skills they have

[gusty lance]

no, you wouldnt...

[inland roost]

As i know scripting is one

[gusty lance]

your looking for a scripter

[swift walrus]

If someone is skilled in 3+ things their post should tell you so before you even see it from their profile

[gusty lance]

this isnt walmart

[inland roost]

Yes it is. As someome who spends between 500k-800k robux a month. It is.

[gusty lance]

you enter with an idea of what your looking for

[inland roost]

Same reason I stopped applying for merit

[gusty lance]

okay immortal

so its the

[inland roost]

You know how frequently I have to ask people do you do gui scripting, do you do mesh vfx scripting etc?

If i see a vfx 3 and scripting 3 on dev role i know they do mesh vfx

[gusty lance]

"higher chance for some rich hirers to be intrigued by your role and click on your profile and attempt to hire you for other things once you post in hiring channel for a single skill" role

[gusty lance]

just check their roles?

why ask

[swift walrus]

Why not just looking for someone else skilled in this ?

[inland roost]

If you go to a company and the choice is A a programmer who only programs or B a programmer who is slightly worse but does computer hardware design. Who do you go with?

[inland roost]

Because now I have to pay 3 people vs 1

[inland roost]

Why get more roles?

[gusty lance]

sounds like your looking for a general tech guy

i dont imagine id need a scripter than can model

[swift walrus]

Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily less expensive

[gusty lance]

well dev role would need those roles anyway?

[inland roost]

Yes because I can pay them for the orginal 2 tasks vs 3

[inland roost]

Dev role is a reason to get them

[gusty lance]

1 with the work of 3 is 3x more expensive or 3x less efficient

[inland roost]

Currently theirs 0 reason to get ranked in more then one thing

[swift walrus]

Takes much longer

[inland roost]

No, because its two tasks.

If i tell someone make a fireball and the fireball vfx

Thats 2 taks they will implement

They will make the vfx then apply ot to the skill

[gusty lance]

this is a loop

a very weak one at that

[inland roost]

Not at all. I was willing to apply for multiple roles for rhe dev role as it would have more value

Took away dev role, lost all intrest

I was not the only one applying

[gusty lance]

reason for dev role to exist: find people with multiple skills as they may not have the roles
reason to get dev role: get the roles to get dev role so people can find you with multiple skills

a VERY weak loop

id be surprised if it hooks one person

[inland roost]

If i have multiple roles 0 reason for people to click my name if they see scripter 3 I'm auto a scripter

If I have dev role and advertise scripting they have a reason to click

[gusty lance]

thats 2x the work

same as getting a scripter and a vfx artist

[inland roost]

But now I dont need to get 2 diffrent people at two diffrent rare and balance two diffrent people

[swift walrus]

Paying less people, but paying as much

[inland roost]

And not the same

[gusty lance]

your relying on people getting dev role because it looks cool

[inland roost]

Slightly more but less overall

[inland roost]

No

[gusty lance]

so you can figure out if they have more than one skill

[inland roost]

Because its functional

[gusty lance]

instead of just clicking on their profile

and seeing their roles

[inland roost]

Allot dont click others profiles to check ranks

[gusty lance]

if they dont have those roles to show they arnt going to get them just for dev role

[inland roost]

Thats a fact

If they did most would know I have m3

Not a single soul noticed it

[gusty lance]

you quite literally said that youd check peoples profiles after seeing they are dev regardless

??

[inland roost]

But I met the requirments for m3

[swift walrus]

Not at all. I was willing to apply for multiple roles for the dev role as it would have more value

[inland roost]

Yes because dev role triggers the action because you dont know

If i get b3, a3, v3

Everyone will say I'm a scripter

Because I'm s3.

This is a fact.

Dev role gives them a reason to click my name and look.

[gusty lance]

there are so many things wrong with this statement

[swift walrus]

No

[gusty lance]

it would bring up an entirely different discussion

[inland roost]

Yes because they can't see my other ranks until they do

[gusty lance]

safe to say

theres a reason why companies hire for specialised roles

[inland roost]

And if you saw d3 you would click to see what they have it in

[gusty lance]

its tried and proven

[inland roost]

Okay then lets remove all ranks but rank 4

With your logic..

[gusty lance]

what

im talking about proficient in one skill instead of multiple

[inland roost]

S1-s3 is a standard of ranks. S4 is the only specialization

[gusty lance]

not how good you are in said skill

[inland roost]

If I'm rank 3 in multiple skills I'm rank 3

[gusty lance]

i can specialise in scripting by being an s3 and having no other skill ranks

hell you could do it for s1

this is a just standards problem

absolutely unrelated

[inland roost]

Yes and that would make you purely a scripter but your not better then a m3 who is also s3

S3 = s3

[gusty lance]

you are exactly the same if the company is only looking for a scripter

[inland roost]

Theirs no specialization

[gusty lance]

they dont care if your the best builder in the world

[inland roost]

Then they look for a scripter

But if i could find someone who does xyz and they do it the same as ABC people with s3. They can better go for the vision

Why get a scripter at x level who is the same as y scriptee who does gui and vfx?

[gusty lance]

what if they are s3 and m3 but only want to script

[inland roost]

Then they advertise that

But having the ability gives a better core understanding

[gusty lance]

you seem to be heavily relying on attempting to sell them into working multiple different skills for your project

which is making alot of assumptions

[inland roost]

No its byond that

[gusty lance]

like if you have the very specific 3 roles they specialise in free

[inland roost]

If your an m3 / s3 and vfx 3 for example

[gusty lance]

if they want to do more than one

[inland roost]

You get them as a s3

They go to apply a skill lets say a fireball.

They notice the vfx itself is actually setup wrong

They can point that out

[gusty lance]

if im hired as an s3 im not going to make a fireball just because i can

im going to go get your other vfx artist here

im not doing extra work

[inland roost]

Im isolating it

[gusty lance]

im doing what im paid to do

[inland roost]

They aren't doing more work

[gusty lance]

so dev role is good if your other employees are shit at their job?

[inland roost]

They make the skill to launch the fireball but they may be able to point out a flaw with rhe vfx as they understand vfx that could cause issues with the entire skill system

[inland roost]

No but vfx artist may not understand not understand how scripts are done or a skill system or other random shit

[gusty lance]

vfx role is around the actual design of it

you dont need to have a vfx skill to realise the setup is wrong

as a scripter

thats not a creative job

[inland roost]

But a dude with experince in multiple fields as he works can message the person in question and say oi have your vfx artist fix xyz

[inland roost]

Depends on the issue.

[gusty lance]

vfx people only care on how it looks at the end

[inland roost]

Yes but sometimes they fuck things up going for a look. Its not hard to say xyz.

[gusty lance]

and thats what they are paid to make

[inland roost]

I had a dude fuck up a ice skill where it would cause flickering at the end of the vfx

[gusty lance]

all these cases seem very specific

[inland roost]

Made it past and when implement the scripter on the project mentioned it and what was causing it. I sent that to the vfx artist and they fixed it

This makes life easy when dealing with lots of workers / commisions

[gusty lance]

you dont need vfx experience to know that

vfx is an artist role

setup is technical

[inland roost]

They overlap at times

Specifically during implementation

[gusty lance]

no they do not. the scripter wont be expected to tweak the actual particalemitter properties

to make it look different

the only setup experience vfx role has is knowing when to put attachments and when not to

[inland roost]

Correct but a scripter who knows the properties is worth more as they can tell the one who highered them xyz is fucked.

The other option is they can charge slightly more because they do fix it vs bothering people

[gusty lance]

if you hire an s3 do you really need a vfx3 to realise the setup is wrong

because this would only apply on the dev role the scripter is at

[inland roost]

For example lets take the common dev.

They get x vfx artist to make skills.

They sit on skills for awhile then they get a scripter later to implement and notice its fucked up

Then now the dude has to pay a whole new vfx artist to fix that dam thing

Or they can pay the scripter who happens to do vfx slightly more to fix it

Thats a fully marketable skill

[gusty lance]

immortal white

vfx is the CREATIVE side of particals

they are expected to have the basic knowledge of the setup and thats it

[inland roost]

Why do programmers learn multiple languages and apply for a c++ jobs? They dont specialize in c++

[gusty lance]

scripters are meant to actually implement it

if i hired an s3

id say they are just as proficient in seeing a botched setup

if they had vfx3

or not

[inland roost]

Yes but implementing can cause issues when the vfx is not setup right. It might look right but no attachment or a pram was set messed up that causes a look issue under specific conditions.

You have 2 things you can do to fix it. Get someone or?

[gusty lance]

then fix it?

as a scripter thats your job

[inland roost]

But if a scripter has to do attachment and they know nothing of vfx then what?

[gusty lance]

they made the particals look cool

their job is done

[inland roost]

Have you dealt with more then 1 basic partical vfx?

[gusty lance]

yes

its literally just a part with attachments and partical emitters and beams

its really not that difficult

[inland roost]

Then you should know animations and vfx setup matters also depends if they use moon or vfx suit etc.

As those can literally be setup wrong

Or done incorrectly

[gusty lance]

when did animations enter

[inland roost]

If because its included

[gusty lance]

what could possibly be setup wrong

those are creative jobs

[inland roost]

If your doing a skill you have the script, animation and vfx

[gusty lance]

their worth comes from that

they arnt expected to have too much understanding on the technical side

scripters are meant to make it work

[inland roost]

Dev role.

[gusty lance]

dev role: they have vfx and ui

good help

your dev role is clicking their profiles and seeing their specific roles, how proficient they are in each, and what your needs are

that tells you much more information that an extremely generalised 1-4 ranking would

[inland roost]

Its beyond that but your viewing it extremely narrow. i can't explain something that you absolutely refuse to listen to.

[gusty lance]

if i havnt been listening this wouldnt have gone on for so long

[inland roost]

Oh high and mighty act. Has to talk behind closed doors / refuses to re explain their main point after speaking behind closed door / takes high and mighty act if I listened that's the only reason it continues 🤮