💡 i dont think the ranking system is "fair", i feel it should be based on a challenge, like if yo...

[fiery turtle]

Please discuss this idea civilly, don't forget to vote on this idea in #📝︱server-suggestions!

[vocal badge]

im sorry to say this might be THE worst suggestion of this year so far

[celest basalt]

you cant just say that and not explain it at all lol

[tight hemlock]

i think you just said it in a very weird way, instead you should make a ticket but that staff memeber should ask you for your work so you can actually be authenticated

[daring folio]

it's not staff, but the way you get a rank is make a ticket, submit work, it gets judged by one or more rankers, and you get ranked based on where they think your work falls according to their judgement and guidelines they follow

[daring folio]

I don't know about other skills, but I don't think it's possible to make an exam that could reliably judge the requirements for scripter 2, or judge the skills required for scripter 3+ at all

[upbeat roost]

yeah this is terrible

what challenge could judge someone's ability properly

like with gfx you cant ask someone like to do rimlighting and that automatically makes them qualified

[celest basalt]

Before you say it’s terrible maybe make your point a bit more thought out lol I don’t just mean make em do a single task💀

[upbeat roost]

im not elaborating because repertor just said everything there is to say

but you did make it seem like a single task when you said "x challenge"

[celest basalt]

It’s a challenge. Not a task…

Also repertor said it wouldn’t work on ONE skill lmao there’s 10💀? So I think you saying “terrible” kinda backs up my point of saying maybe make a better point before saying that

[upbeat roost]

what’s the difference

[celest basalt]

A task is a single thing. A challenge is multiple tasks

[upbeat roost]

yeah and i gave an example of why it wouldn’t work for gfx

do you want an expert from every field to explain why it wouldn’t work for them specifically

[celest basalt]

Okay… so Two / 10 cool

[upbeat roost]

can you come up with the challenge then?

how would you test someone for scripted 3

[celest basalt]

I’m not a ranker so no hence the “suggestion” and not the action

brother you seriously need to read some definitions before jumping on the bandwagon wagon lol

Your points are just nil at least repertor gave an opinion and not just a straight diss💀

[upbeat roost]

saying that the current system is unfair because it’s opinion based doesn’t make sense because you need confirmation from multiple tankers

rankers

[celest basalt]

Since when?

[upbeat roost]

and also a challenge would just take too much time

[upbeat roost]

since forever

i was a tanker before

[celest basalt]

Soooo creating a script for scripted 3 = easy buuuut doing a challenge for scripted 3 (exactly the same) = too long?

Right…

[upbeat roost]

what?

[celest basalt]

How? You have no rank?

[upbeat roost]

yeah i left the sevrrr and lost my roles

speaking of which

[celest basalt]

Righttt

[upbeat roost]

@worthy scaffold can i habe my former staff back

:3

[celest basalt]

So we just forgetting the point now cause you have no valid argument?

[upbeat roost]

i just gave the argument?

[celest basalt]

Hmmm well… “not opinion based” because multiple tankers have to… give their opinions…

[upbeat roost]

bro obviously some work is involved in ranking

you use your PAST work

[celest basalt]

And if you have no past work?

[upbeat roost]

maybe we aren’t on the same page i assume you mean like you make a ticket, then they give you the challenge, you do it, then get the rank

[upbeat roost]

you cant

why would you apply for a rank when you have no experience

[celest basalt]

Yeah but more complicated than that but it’s not up to me to decide hence why I put it in suggestions lol

[celest basalt]

Why would you use old work for ranking up if you’re gaining experience?

[upbeat roost]

past doesn’t necessarily mean like old

i would apply with my recent stuff

and what i think is best

[celest basalt]

For example I cant use any old work for ranks cause I have none lol

[astral spear]

** You are now Level 12! **

[upbeat roost]

so then don’t apply for the rank

if you don’t deserve it why should you have it

[celest basalt]

… bro you’re missing the point. Giving a challenge would allow for people to provide recent work instead of having to use old work. They might also learn things along the way if they can’t do them

Makes sure your scripts are actually up to date etc.

[upbeat roost]

how fast do you think people improve

[celest basalt]

Someone could submit something they made in 2020 but because of updates those scripts don’t work anymore, so they get the rank and actually have no clue what to do because of new code

[upbeat roost]

like something you made 2 days ago probably isn’t gonna be complete garbage in comparison to what you can make now

then if the rankers see that it’s outdated then they deny it

[celest basalt]

EXACTLY. I’m saying ranks shouldn’t be an open close sort of system. They should be something that people apply for and build up to and eventually submit their challenge similar to like a school test or whatever

[upbeat roost]

hm

that does make it more clear but i still disagree

[celest basalt]

So the tankers give them a list of what they’d need to learn to have the skills to get this rank. The ranker then asks them some questions let’s just say “what do you use collection service for” or something, the ranker confirms they actually know what they’re talking about and they review the submission and then boom someone with a rank that ACTUALLY knows what they’re doing

[upbeat roost]

what’s stopping them from using google

[celest basalt]

That’s where the rankers actually do their jobs. Come on you must know how easy it is to distinguish a human answer from a robot answer

[worthy scaffold]

open a ticket and ask

🥱

[upbeat roost]

it’s pretty easy to paraphrase on the fly

[celest basalt]

If staff want people’s ranks to be genuine they gotta be willing to go through answers and check if say they use chatgpt or google

[worthy scaffold]

this ain't a school exam

[upbeat roost]

why 😭

[worthy scaffold]

i feel like you should

[upbeat roost]

yeah that’s what i’m saying it’s not that serious

[celest basalt]

Kind of is when you think about it

[worthy scaffold]

it isn't but open one anyway

trust

[celest basalt]

Literally learning computer science haha

There’s chats that help people learn stuff etc if anything this is quite literally a school environment

You can technically even higher a “tutor” to either do something for you or help you💀

So yeah… this kinda IS a school test

[worthy scaffold]

there's problems to this like tickets just absolutely stacking up and rankers since they're doing this completely voluntary not wanting to literally tutor people or act like a teacher assigning homework

[vocal badge]

this would not work for like 90% of the skills and make all skill role tickets 10 times longer to do

[celest basalt]

thats my point they shouldnt be short.

[vocal badge]

so let me get this straight, the whole point is to needlessly make the rankers do extra work and make the people apply do extra work for something that is no more reliable than what is in place 💀

no problems there

I feel like you just didnt think this one through

[daring folio]

I didn't make a script for s3, I submitted work I did for projects I'd be working on even if the ranking system didn't exist. Likewise for s2. The other members I know of that earned s2+ did likewise.

[daring folio]

Why do you feel that getting certified to a certain level should take a long time and lots of effort?

Getting to a certain skill level can be difficult, but I don't see why getting the rank should too

[celest basalt]

because thats the correlation

takes a long time to get

[daring folio]

What correlation?

[daring folio]

The ranking and the skill are two completely different things.

[celest basalt]

in what way are they different? shouldnt they be the exact same?

[daring folio]

Generally you can't get the ranking without the skill in the current setup, but you only get a ranking when you apply and submit enough work

[celest basalt]

so what happens if the person thinks they are a certain rank but they arent? they just get told they arent and thats end of? they have no way of knowing how to get the next rank

ive asked rankers why i couldnt get a certain rank and their reply was "we need to see more"...

tfs that mean

[daring folio]

My experience was that the ranker that disagreed had a conversation with me

[celest basalt]

yeah YOUR experience what rank did you apply for?

[daring folio]

S4

[celest basalt]

in other words you had plenty of knowledge and experience to go off of whether they advised you or not? im talking about newer people like me

[daring folio]

If you think rankers should give more feedback on rejections, that sounds like a fine suggestion that I'd probably vote for.

[celest basalt]

okay ill suggest that then?

like when i applied to g2 i got told that "youre not at g2 level yet" okay? so what is?

[daring folio]

But excluding expert judgement of actual work from certifications IME tends to make the certifications much less valuable. I've seen it repeatedly in the real world, where many software development certifications are completely worthless

[celest basalt]

newer devs need to be told this so they have some sort of direction

otherwise its just a blind test of "i think this is good enough but it might not be" and hoping for the best

there should be some sort of system where a person knows they WILL receive the rank beforehand

[daring folio]

Here you go: #📝︱server-suggestions message

[celest basalt]

as depressing as it is after all that youve summed up my original suggestion in one sentence lol

i just didnt know how to word it

instead of challenge i really meant "guidelines" like you say like "you have to be able to do X thing for this" and such

[vocal badge]

and how would you make a non cheatable test with objectively right asnwers that can accurately test the skills for all skill ranks

[celest basalt]

came in a bit late jimmi its been resolved now lol

[vocal badge]

not really

just saying why waht you said didnt make sense, as far as my reading of this no one said waht I just said

so not late

[celest basalt]

okay i dont care like i said its been resolved :))

[autumn timber]

real

[worthy scaffold]

we are actually making documetns for all skill roles documenting evrything you need to know about the evaluation

we already had one for scripting but were making on for each skill

pretty sure it also incldues example works for certain roles

itll take some time but it will also save alot of time