Plight of Apollyon (2026)

[real river]

Adding new amity / changing the weights if questions doesn't change the couchable status or layout, just the final rewards

The last two time new amity were added, the maps, question, and couchable all stayed.

[minor tusk]

The what if wasn't on the couchability only... 👀

[real river]

Got 2nd 100% fish amity

Don't really notice a difference between 1 and 2x. Took 12.min vs 14 to catch 50 fish. Still tons of junk and battles.

[minor tusk]

Faster fish spawn!

Imagine rarer monster is one of the bonuses.

Faster and better quality!

[real river]

Doubt rare monster affects fish.

Except for during the fish battles.

[hot mauve]

What type of line?

I'd imagine there's an upper limit to how effective these can be, since at some point the fish are just constant

[real river]

Svarg

I can test it on normal later

[hot mauve]

You'd probably notice a larger difference with a perfect or lower

[real river]

Cause I don't see how it can get any faster with the best lines...your basically spam throwing it out

[hot mauve]

Yeah, exactly

[real river]

But I also haven't fished in 5 months lol

[peak grotto]

Diminishing returns on Fishing bonus ???

I never thought I would say that sentence

[minor tusk]

Diminishing returns???? That's some "The Deep" Thoughts.

[hot mauve]

I think the event amities in the shop may reset at both midnight UTC and midnight local

[minor tusk]

The rewards is probably for faster spamming lines. I actually skip all the battle events in fishing.

I remember someone mentioned that it increases the fish spawn and having lesser chance of the monster spawn.

[minor tusk]

???? Are you serious?? Let me check.

[hot mauve]

I'm not 100% sure

Mine now are definitely different than they were after midnight UTC before I went to bed. I'll check again to verify after midnight UTC this evening

[spring swallow]

Hey that's rude, my local is UTC

[hot mauve]

Not right now it isn't

Because of DST

[minor tusk]

Not for me because I bought all the low cost to convert it to DM.

Didn't changed.

I only know 12am UTC 0 will only reset the monument guild shop items, just like the buildings in world map.

While 12am local will reset the rest.

[spring swallow]

Oh. huh.
I didn't know UTC disobeyed the laws of daylight

Fair enough

[peak grotto]

I haven't seen anything like that
UTC reset is 5pm and local is when it resets

[hot mauve]

UTC 0 for you is like 8am isn't it?

[minor tusk]

Ya.

The refresh time at the monument guild shows 13 hours and 31 minutes for me.

[hot mauve]

I'm going to verify again tonight.

I'm fairly sure that my amities after 8pm (midnight UTC) yesterday were different than they were when I checked the shop in the morning. But not entirely sure

[minor tusk]

While seer guild shop refresh timer on 5 hours 31 mins

[real river]

On nq fishing line,
60s per fish
1x 100% 30s per fish
2x 100 15s per fish

[hot mauve]

I know for a fact the shop reset at midnight local last night because I got a cool amity this morning that was not there when I went to bed

[real river]

But regular line breaks exponentially easier

I've checked nightly...event amity only reset at local midnight

Not at utc

[peak grotto]

I'll check too

[minor tusk]

That's informative.

[twilit ocean]

i can also say that there's been no change at 0 utc on my end

[minor tusk]

Buy out the cheaps one and see. Also check your refresh timer.

Refresh timer should be the same for everyone on the monumental guild. But that's for monumental items.

The event items still refresh on local midnight on the event page.

[real river]

Now I haven't been buying them if not good. So if you need to buy them to reset at utc midnight that would be a different mechanism than the norm local reset

[minor tusk]

Buying them so can convert to DM and remember that it's the same items haahhah

[hot mauve]

It's definitely weird to have two things in the same shop that reset at different times

[minor tusk]

Ya weird right? Hahaha but that's what timer shows. All shop timers show the same.

But monumental shop are different.

Then u have the event items in monumental shop.

[hot mauve]

But that's why I said "might" reset twice. It was anecdotal and I thought it might've happened, so I wanted to see if anyone else had checked. I trust Trex and Lemon that it only resets once

[peak grotto]

I'll ignore that I wasn't included in that sentence

[real river]

Never trust a cat

[minor tusk]

Tier A is different than Tier S.

And u da kat. Not da man.

[scenic canyon]

I checked my reset at midnight local (1h before 0UTC) and, while I didn’t screenshot them, I either have the same loadout now or a very very similar one

[vast orbit]

I've been checking the shop like 4 times a day

This was a cool one but still haven't bought anything

[balmy briar]

Most interesting one i got myself so far 😅

Just need 1 more bof amity and ill just be looking for good stuff

[dreamy agate]

the flask fill one works similar to ruairc staff doesnt it? Opens up ability to run sigilflask every turn?

[cloud pecan]

It's not really similar, but it does open some interesting things

[dreamy agate]

thanks!

[cloud pecan]

You still need ruairc to charge on kill, this just boost the charge itself

[dreamy agate]

put that in the "i might HoC to heretic within the next year, dont need FOMO" lol

aww okay

[cloud pecan]

Which, for example, in theory opens endless with only 1 ruairc, not 2

[cloud pecan]

We waitin for ya

[vast orbit]

100% flask actually boosts the charge gained by Ruairc as well

With enough charge you wouldn't need Ruairc

[spice leaf]

😡 3 10% fishing. That's wild

[minor tusk]

Convert low into DM.

[vast orbit]

That sounds like a wildly inefficient use of resources to get DMs

[minor tusk]

I just need more.

[vast orbit]

Monuments and towers

[dreamy agate]

I had 3 15% flask fill, I feel your pain

[lunar hamlet]

Bof is the best way now with the new amities

[real river]

Fishing is still balls, even wwith 2x 100% the hard cap and increased cost means you can get 2-3 DM for 1 hr + of fishing. But its nice tht fishing finishes faster if you choose to do it lol

[minor tusk]

Did both. Need more.

[minor tusk]

Maybe use it to farm material would be better?

[balmy briar]

Id rather farm DMs while farming the event than that tbh

[minor tusk]

But monument is limited. And tower I get burn out from it.

Bof is the best mindless farm for DM.

[balmy briar]

Yeah i get it, if i had more freetime these days i would aim for mindless methods at times too haha

[minor tusk]

Damn this event makes my AL up by 7.

Crazy mats drop from memory.

[real river]

the event starts tomorrow, save some DM there lead foot

[minor tusk]

Spend 100, still have 100 thaat haven't change to DM yet.

Just scouting today. Tomorrow I probbaly will join u guys after I got the last amity ornate.

[hollow wagon]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Apo shrine buff works on Mne towers

Going to keep on doing towers til the memory event here shortly but 👀

[dreamy agate]

Much better odds than me so far lol

[hollow wagon]

25 towers
17 legendary
2 ornate
12 famed

[hollow wagon]

inch resting

[clear fable]

Appolyon shrine is gone

I bought the pack for the 24h hours buff and it gave me wisdom shrine!

and I can't find it in the store anymore

oh found it, at least i can evetn craft it

[slim river]

pretty sure ive seen 4% btw but i forgot to ss (?)

[unique lantern]

feedback:
For these raids, rewards shouldn't be divided out by damage input. Doing so places people who cannot deal absurd amounts of damage against those who are which leads to those who cannot deal a lot of damage having almost no chances at rewards unless they luck out and have an instance where no one is trying to flex their damage.

One idea is a damage threshold of a sort:
1-100000 (a) rewards
100001-1000000 (b) rewards
1000001+ (c) rewards

Another idea is having a "minimum damage for full rewards" such as "If you do more than 100k damage, you get full rewards"

or: Everyone gets their own raid bosses / shares with their party

[vast orbit]

Just do more damage, that's the point of the mechanic

[real river]

or rather, dont rush to 250 and be surpsied when you get there that others out damage you

[fickle monolith]

Other players’ damage doesn’t impact your own rewards, it’s just a fun thing to see

Focus on doing as much as you can individually

[pallid knot]

😱

I always thought it did

[fickle monolith]

Previous version did

[minor tusk]

Wait what????? This doesn't....

[runic anvil]

I was 100% giving misinformation earlier then.

Misinfo Guild, are you accepting new applicants?

[vast orbit]

I don't remember a patch note saying the event was changed so

Stealth change, not our fault for spreading outdated info lol

[spice leaf]

This was at the end of the last event run

[minor tusk]

I think Odie just update this patch lol

[fickle monolith]

yeah, that’s basically the note

[spice leaf]

Odie we talked about this, you have to be clear when you make important changes

[unique lantern]

??? Both of these were me tapping for 10k damage, the lower reward one someone else did 30 mil.

The higher reward one, no one else did any damage in

[vast orbit]

If the limit is dynamic then other people's damage matters

[spice leaf]

🎉 Fishing intensifies

[neon karma]

Timed/duration reward buffs might be the reason I stop playing. I'm getting tired of it
I'll give 2 examples of how this is affecting the game negatively:

1- I wanted to do memory hunts when Polly event started. But I waited for the memory hunt event for best return.
Now I'm not in the mood anymore and also don't have that much free time.

2- Same goes for Shrine of Polly
Pay 50 balors for 1h. Start doing, but need to stop for any reason. Then it just feels like a waste.
So I only do it when I know for sure I'll have some time without interruptions (which is rare).

The game is hanging from 'playing isn't efficient' to FOMO back and forth all the time.
There have been sooooo many times this month that I grabbed the phone to play and just don't because of that.

As a mobile game, I expected to just grab the phone and play when I have the time.
For 15 minutes while waiting for something. Or when I'm bored and need something to kill time.

I really like the game and I've been playing for several years. But more and more I feel like the game is not fulfilling the role of being my mobile game.
Just wanted to share my feedback on that because I believe there's a lot more players feeling the same. And this event highlighted the problem more clearly.

[fickle monolith]

fwiw, they are an hour in order to fit all of our individual play session lengths. If we’ve only got 15 minutes to play - an hour should cover it well.

I know some of us feel compelled to use the whole hour, but its not really intention from our side to prey on that or anything

[neon karma]

Yeah, I get that.
It's not about the time length itself

It's more about all these things that should be in place so it doesn't feel 'inefficient'

And, don't get me wrong. I love all the new work that has been done in the events
Having a memory hunt event is great
And all the last events were nice too

But this 'playing isn't efficient' -> FOMO -> 'playing isn't efficient' -> FOMO cycle might be hurting the game

Like, having the bonus for the entire month for Polly because it's time to hunt amities is great!

But having a lot of very time sensitive overlaps might not be

And we've been seing a lot of old and new players just giving up because of burnout

[peak grotto]

Lowering the cost would make it feel less "inefficient" but yes
That's a feeling, a player feeling
I definitely don't have it . You can probably fix that for yourself
But I agree, make shrine 15 min duration

[neon karma]

I don't think the cost or the time are the issues here
For me, the issue is stacking a lot of reward+ or it feels inefficient

You need the shrine, also should do in the week of memory and also it's best to be in the Polly event...

That's like the towers.
I just don't do towers anymore because without all the buffs we had previously, it just feels like a waste
So I'll only do towers when all the stars are aligned (multiple reward buffs in place)

And there's a possibility that when that happens I won't have the time (because we all have a life outside)

[dreamy agate]

if you min max the game, you will run into these feelings. or if you feel like you have to min max it, you will experience this

towers are fun to people, you can get proofs of torment, floor rewards give mats/dm's/scrolls, and you can still clear decent shards without big events

memories are the same boat, I run memories all year round. I want to do them during the event, and try to, but it's okay if we miss out

[neon karma]

Yeah, might just be because I don't like doing things inefficiently in general
But I really think A LOT of the player base has that same mindset 😅

Anyway, just wanted to share some of my feeling and feedback
Using the discussion thread for what it's meant

[peak grotto]

They do

The grind has a big pull on the people

[dreamy agate]

nah I get that completely, and I can resonate with what you're saying

I have to remind myself it's just a silly phone game all the time lol

[unique lantern]

Meanwhile me: i don't feel like I've missed out during the times I've been afk from the game for months on end. Sometimes you just gotta find a nice mindset to be in.

[minor tusk]

It ain't candy crush hellooooo

[vast orbit]

I'd love if the shrine was cut in half - 30 minutes but for half the cost

[unique lantern]

Does it stack in time if you purchase multiple?

[dreamy agate]

Yes

[neon karma]

Another way to do it is by charges
Shrine gives X charges. Each hunt consumes 1 charge
I like this way waaaaaay better, as we can do it on our own accord

[fickle monolith]

Yup, I get it. It’s valuable feedback and thank you for sharing

The whole fomo thing is tricky subject to manage, as there’s a big subjective piece to it. We all consume games so differently

[neon karma]

Yeah, I imagine it's sooooo hard to manage a game like this
And even harder to make the playerbase happy (as we see all the complaints for new/reworked stuff every time)
But I think NF is doing great. We're getting new and better content and the game is still very much alive

[unique lantern]

Other player's damage 100% impacts your rewards from these raids.

Compared to no other players

[runic anvil]

While we are on this topic, it'd be sweet if we had some functionality to cut proofs of undying allegiance or elesium/monumental coins in half to get 2 separate 1 day buffs.

I popped my first PoUA to yesterday and I'm stuck today following up. Not the end of the world, just a small and amusing annoyance.

[inland mirage]

FWIW the shrine seems pretty cheap for the length it offers, if your hunt has a battle in it, you'll more than make up for it over the course of ~10-20 minutes. Otherwise you probably make it back in a couple of horde dungeons. I think having something akin to charges would make the shrine less valuable for those who run memories quickly.

[wooden stratus]

Hello~

Does anyone have in hand, the max bonus of the amities that appear on the event?

[real river]

#1500887316397293649 message

[mighty cradle]

Towers can drop amities now?

[terse trail]

Giants event has a t4 mnemonic tower

[timber lantern]

any benefit to using chaos scroll while farming the balor area? mostly just farming for my dragonbook x with affinity candle

[minor tusk]

Event monster chance increase. U will see rainbows

[lunar hamlet]

Odie needs to rework buying things from guilds

6m towershards and I have to buy my dms 1 at a time, this sucks

[peak grotto]

We've asked that yeah

[winged tendon]

many people have asked for that repeatedly
hopefully it's in the works 🤷

[lunar hamlet]

For now I spend hours buying 1.2k dms

[peak grotto]

By now I think it's cuz the code explodes if he tries to implement that or smt

[lunar hamlet]

Well my fingers are exploding tapping the screen 3600 times

[minor tusk]

And then you have to recollect 1200 amity

[lunar hamlet]

The pain never ends🥲

[balmy briar]

THE worst part

[lunar hamlet]

Idk both my thumbs are numb from the first part

[minor tusk]

Let it go, let it go, the pains never gonna end.

[lunar hamlet]

Not even half way done... yippee

[vast orbit]

I... hmmm

[minor tusk]

Wtf....

[vast orbit]

I don't think I can do anything with this...

[minor tusk]

I will still get it though. For the 30% rare monster + charge.

[vast orbit]

I don't think I'd use that anywhere though

I already have 100% charge

[minor tusk]

Who knows later there's memories enemy. That drop unique stuff.

[hollow wagon]

obnoxious BoF defend build incoming?

[minor tusk]

Damnnnn

[wet kite]

I played heretic yesterday for fun and i thought about it

[royal gale]

You have to press 2 times "Buy" and then "Continue"

But in some guilds you can line up the Buy button with the next Buy button and spam them. Because there is a little delay between the "Second Buy" screen and the "Continue Screen" you basicly Skip the "Continue" Screen. That why i mosly spam trough my proofs.

Sadly in the Towe Guild Shop it doesnt work with DMs cause they are on second position in the shop and you cant scroll them down to line up the Buttons 😄

[minor tusk]

Welcome to the weakest link.

[royal gale]

Its funny you can even scroll through the shop while in the "Second Buy"-Screen

[wet kite]

Heretic? Weak? :o

[runic anvil]

Seowqj are you playing the eldered version of heretic? They are definitely not in a weak state.

[raven merlin]

That went out the door on the Heretic rework

Then any lingering semblance thereof got burned up in the fire known as “Flask Power”

Ain’t no weak former-Apollyon-following-exiled-warlocks now

[wooden stratus]

What does "more effective" on any weapon means? Is that just +% dmg ?

[real river]

An atk/mag multplier that affects penetration from what others have said. In practice you will be hard pressed to find a use for it without a decent legendary bonus to pair with

Eg 10% weapon +40% crit would out do 15% DMG at full hp at high anguish, for skills like bl2

[wooden stratus]

Thank you! Is it possible for that bonus to appear outside of monuments?

[real river]

Nope

[pallid knot]

Wait dont mnemonics have a chance to roll those?

The orange ones

[hot mauve]

No

[pallid knot]

Shytee

[minor tusk]

That's just an illusion

[runic anvil]

Ah, he's on the "pretend heretic is still weak" train.

[vast orbit]

Heretic is very solid

[silver sundial]

the game balancing is definitly dead. I see screenshot everywhere of people earning 50 or even 100 AL since the begining of this event.
Memory farming is a colossal joke that broke the game. Some people with undying are reaching 1100 mat and 2m+ orn per memory, that's insane.
8h of farm get them more than 5 MILLION mats and BILLIONS of Orn. Even if you dont have a PoUA, we're still talking about 2.5M.
You guys are completly out of reality.

[runic anvil]

By that metric, the game was broken by unlimited refineries long ago.

Just play if you enjoy it, find something else if not.

[silver sundial]

So, two thing :

• "It was broke before, so no problem if broke again" dafuk ?
• The scale of the abuse compared to refineries is on a totally different league here. We're close to "infinite mat loop" with no difficuty nor challenge of any kind, just brainless DM spam

[spice leaf]

I agree with Kyalexx, the scaling has been very insane these past 4 days, nothing compared to refineries. I made sure to make full use of it myself, but the rewards have been ridiculous.

[fickle monolith]

there are a couple events lined up that will definitely be rewarding as a package

it's not like these events are going to be running forever

[runic anvil]

If someone wants to lock themselves in jail for 2 days and stack 18 bonuses, they deserve a massive payoff.

[silver sundial]

DM Farming was already broken before this event, PoA just add the cherry on top.
At least PoUA where limited in number and were really really hard to obtain, now we got a free one every month, or even two. Same for the Coins.
DM farming is out of hands since like a year now, Abyss called it a long time ago and he was right and i'm pretty sure you know it, but instead of taming the issue, it getting worse.

Again, it took half a month for some people to gain more than 50+ AL, and i'm not talking of people who were AL0 for starter.

[runic anvil]

A free PoUA every month? Playing this game like a second job isn't free 😂

[spice leaf]

Well really it was the passive bonus + shrine on top of memory event that really set this off. As Odie mentioned though, it'll (probably) be another year before this happens again

and it's not really repeatable as many of us used a lot resources for this

[runic anvil]

I got to something like 130 in thronemakers when I was running monuments obsessively, I haven't come remotely close in event levels outside of that.

If someone is that level of dedicated and optimizes their resource usage they deserve the payoff as far as I am concerned.

[silver sundial]

Ok. Give back the refineries then?

It asked for way WAY more dedication for less rewards than DMs

[spice leaf]

Yea that's not true. Allotting 30+ hours of your time is much harder than passively updating 60 or more refineries each day. One was incremental gains while the other is a burst

[runic anvil]

What is the root of what you take issue with? Do you think that this infusion of ascension levels is breaking the game, do you dislike it because you couldn't benefit from it? Etc.

From the outside I have no idea why you would argue to bring refineries back, that was hell.

[silver sundial]

To reach this amount of mat, we're talking about refilling hundreds of refeniries.
It also require to construct and bring back those undred of refeneries, that's a shitton of dedication.
DM ? Do a tower, buy a bunch, sit and profit.

[pastel solar]

welcome to the new orna reality lets go. rising tide all ships

🍻

[silver sundial]

It is all about powercreeping in the game. It was discussed a lot. I think you're too young to be aware of this

[runic anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/zargoth-gif-15673802963682771818

[inland mirage]

As #1 abuser, I think its probably worth looking at access to PoUA and the level of stacking this event enables.

[runic anvil]

Ascension levels go up, you hit higher anguish. ALs can be disabled in PVP. Who the actual heck cares?

You come off as someone looking for something to whine about.

[inland mirage]

I can write more detailed feedback but I have 22 hours of memories left to do

[pastel solar]

As the #7-9 leverage-er of overly efficient progression tools I hope everyone gets to AL 100 this month and then we can finally go back to the war balance thread

[silver sundial]

Dude, you just keep abusing it, and it is okay dont worry, it is not your fault 😘

[hot mauve]

Goudine was the first person to think amities were OP, and when he said it it was barely true

[inland mirage]

It was true then

[hot mauve]

Now, it is most certainly true, and there's not much we can do about it

[uneven charm]

Could always put a cap on the boosters

[hot mauve]

He said it before Elysian coins, PoUA, Mnemosyne gear.
Also before as many tower shard boosters and when monuments were worse.

[runic anvil]

Trying to have an actual conversation with you was a mistake. I don't know if you are going through some stuff or are just a rude shitter all around.

[fickle monolith]

or remove couchables

[spice leaf]

Remove couchables, add rerolling bonuses that require x steps, we happy

[inland mirage]

I have a bit mixed feelings on this because I think when PoUA was guild only, it actually was an interesting gameplay loop of max out each form of content to get a boost like this and provided a large reward for maxing a guild

[hot mauve]

See, this is the solution myself and maybe only several other people could get behind 😆

[pastel solar]

this is the ultimate ladder pull

unless we are also resetting AL gains from this event

[inland mirage]

only do that if you can also reset my carpal tunnel

[hot mauve]

Reset all ALs to 0 with full material refunds.

Add 5 new herbs

[pastel solar]

full material refunds?

[silver sundial]

Remove couchable would be a great idea

[inland mirage]

add all 5 new herbs to grand market

[pastel solar]

im cool with a server reset

lets gooooooooooo

new grind

[silver sundial]

Also reset the game to first of May please

[runic anvil]

Knight woke up and chose violence

[hot mauve]

I'm old enough to remember ALs and herbs releasing at the same time, and everyone being herb blocked

[inland mirage]

I think an OK place to start would be to make Polly event shrine not give a memory boost next time jsut quality

[spice leaf]

"Herbs can only be obtained irl after a full year growth cycle"

Oh wait you're not memeing? Herbs were a thing?

[pastel solar]

yes

[inland mirage]

yeah I copied ur idea so what

[hot mauve]

Nightshade, Silphium, Dayleaf, and Mandrake were added in the same update that added the Altar of Ascension

[pastel solar]

we can borrow from runescape

[hot mauve]

So they were immediately required for ALs and nobody had any of them

[pastel solar]

you gotta level your herblore

[silver sundial]

Or change Reward buffs from all sources to Quality buff. Amity hunting should be about getting good amity

[lilac sphinx]

watch out for the next enserric - god of orna video

[pastel solar]

emperor of mankind of orna

[inland mirage]

The other option that I presented in 2023 was: make DMs buyable from guilds not have material or orn rewards, just an amity

[hot mauve]

And unfortunately any change made now would be one heck of a ladder pull. Much bigger than refineries being changed (or at least much more obvious)

[inland mirage]

The alternative is say highly limit PoUA here out out

[pastel solar]

add paid materials packages and PoUa to runeshop

[inland mirage]

allow people to abuse if it they want to, but thats the new limit

[hot mauve]

@ Odie, can it be made so that the PoUA does not restock in the Allegiance shop?

I think that was discussed

[balmy briar]

I dont quite understand how this wasnt a discussion before the event, because everyone who pays enough attention knew it would be absolutely absurd gains.

If this was discussed maybe it wouldnt have happened 😅

[pastel solar]

I think this topic has been discussed many times prior to this event

and we are still here

[eager crater]

Yup I remember saying to a couple of guys to pile up mnemonics for may cause that would've been crazy

And that discussion happened on January during the last mnemonic event

[silver sundial]

Same. But tbh, DM farming was discussed a lot before, but ignored by the studio

[eager crater]

Or whenever the event was

[vast orbit]

I'm sitting here just amused by the notion that refineries were "more effort" than DMs

[inland mirage]

Yeah thats ridiculous, but misses the main point

[real river]

Maybe they should add a refinery event, boosters, and coins so I can get 10000x rewards from refinery

I'm more amused by Odie joking about taking away couchable when he already too away my couchables (at work). I think my work bribed him....

[silver sundial]

Honestly i had 70 ref. Even with this much i couldnt bare how boring it was to refill them, then spam GM to get draconite. And it was a pain to bring them home.
Just cant imagine people who had 300.

Anyway, One DM is 4400mats in 20 sec now.

[vast orbit]

Boring, annoying, horrible for the game? Yes agreed, but let's focus on the actually cool and fun mechanic of amity hunting that needs to be balanced

[silver sundial]

or 2200 without PoUA

[silver sundial]

Say the guy who brought back refs in the convo

[vast orbit]

I guess I brought it back sure, it was the only thing I could think about after your comment 😂

[balmy briar]

I think “this is worse than refineries were” came to everyones mind who gained over 10 Als in a couple hour play span. Lets just be real.

[silver sundial]

Yeah i understand.
So, 4000+ mat and 8m orn/20 sec. Discuss 👍

[inland mirage]

They say the rest is history:

#1231399209970696244 message

[eager crater]

Refineries work perfectly everyday of the year without events tho

It was a passive income meanwhile you could run endless, spam horde ang50 and whatever

For amities you need events and items to make it work (considering everyone has the gear)

[vast orbit]

I think DMs give huge boosts to early players, potentially at unwarranted rates. Cutting the base rate may be fine

[uneven charm]

I'd personally like if any changes are to be made, its not at the cost of the 90% of players that don't have all the boosts.

[silver sundial]

It is even worse for late players.

Actually i really think early players are the ones that will be left on the side of the road while late players are farming 100 AL in 15 days

[pastel solar]

tbh problem with refinerries is they are scriptable. DMs are much more complex

[balmy briar]

Most players who dont lock themselves into a tier end up with said boosters tho, people wouldnt use that argument against orn gain being cut as an example because the boosters are a given when discussing “absurd gains”

DMs at a baseline arent broken, but like anything, % scales hard enough

[uneven charm]

You could also consider all the normal players that are still progressing and/or havent seen every event, and not just see my name and shut out my argument.

[inland mirage]

IMO if we look at what happened with Anguish and Fishing guild, that should probably be applied across the board for DM cost

Really hurts the calculus when you need to farm like 5 raids for a single DM vs 1 monument

[balmy briar]

Progressing is the word to use there though, i dont think its comparable

[inland mirage]

If you were largley limited to a daily trickle, recollection, tower loot DMs would be a lot harder to stack en masse

[vast orbit]

Amity hunts would suffer. I'd just cut the material gains then

[spice leaf]

I started the event with 300~ dms, bought 500~ with proofs of monuments I earned from thronemakers/this event, bought another 1k~ from tower shards I had on hand

[balmy briar]

It wasnt a problem until we got a handful of extra buffs, so why not start there?

[inland mirage]

IMO I think its a good think that PoUA can give you an enormous buff, would be better if they were more limited though

[vast orbit]

Early players don't need the mats as much; orns are already out the window anyway and greatly help earlier tiers

I think halving the base mat gain is an easy and quick change to make

[eager crater]

So since amity are a good help to lower tier when it comes to orns

Why don't we just cut the mats?

[balmy briar]

This is where i agree with expless though, that doesnt seem fair to people who run DMs on a regular

[spice leaf]

You don't really run DMs for the mats though, it's for amity hunting or orn gain

On a daily running towers is much better for ascending

[eager crater]

You don't run them for the mats?

[vast orbit]

Running towers to get DMs lol

It's 100% because of mats

[eager crater]

I can make way more orn in less time running gsa endless tbh

[spice leaf]

No the passive gain from towers and tower shards

[eager crater]

I can't farm all these mats tho

[spice leaf]

Not buying dm with shards

[silver sundial]

Remove mats from DM, keep the Orns. And make all Memory bonuses becomes Quality Bonus for amity

[inland mirage]

Personally would say: limit availability of PoUA, either one time purchase or large cost increase for evnets.

Polly event specific: change either the shrine or daily event to only give quality, do not run an additional memory event that month.

[vast orbit]

Towers are mathematically the best path to ascending because of passive gains and then using tower shards and torment to buy DMs

At least according to Knight's math from years ago. I think it's only gotten better since then

[eager crater]

I think with monument rework considering their cooldown the math could change

[vast orbit]

Possible

[inland mirage]

Re: PoUA, I really think its an interesting gameplay look to get a huge boost out of them when they were guild allegience exclusive. These are typically HUGE grinds that are worth being rewards. I thought Rag event offering one was crazy but potentially okay as a one off for 3kish raids, I think every event having one that can be essentially achieved by dungeon spam is a little egregious

[fickle monolith]

they will be harder to get each event run fwiw

or we can up the price so that it takes 1-2 event runs worth of effort to buy one?

[eager crater]

Except for @twilit ocean

[fickle monolith]

they're far from free as-is though, imo

[inland mirage]

Maybe free is the wrong word, but if we compare things like tower/anguish PoUA time invested vs say crimson festival its a huge difference

[runic anvil]

They are "free" if you are amongst the game's most dedicated playerbase segment.

[twilit ocean]

oops :(

[dreamy agate]

TWTlemon needs to be protected at all costs

[inland mirage]

I'll acknowledge Im a bit of a super user, but it took me months to max anguish, still ahvent maxed towers, and was able to get crimson festival in between my actual progresion activites last month

[spice leaf]

Squeeze the juice out of that lemon before it grows too big!

[inland mirage]

But as far as PoUA circa-4 months ago, was some of the msot fun I had in orna in a while. As I was actively focusing ornas whole variety of content to have a PoUA ready for each memory event. Was a really interesting year rather than jsut spamming only towers/dungeons as main progression methods

[eager crater]

Definitely agree, got some guys even into spelunking guild to get that one

[inland mirage]

Yeah I'm among that group, haha

As far as cost, I think PoUA could be like ~300 guild allegience easily, and should be on less events generally, the back to back of them recently has been a bit tough, and I know Rag is on the horizon

[clear fable]

My kingdom spent about 300 cumulative Distorted mnemonics, with the apolyon shirne, trying to get an ornate amity, and none of us got it

We all got none-stop legendary, with not a single ornate

that seems, extremely unlikely

[vast orbit]

When did that happen

[clear fable]

today and yesterday

full party both days, spaming distorted mnemonics

not a single ornate hit

[vast orbit]

Crazy. Did you renew your OrnaCare+ subscription

[clear fable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1504476209646538986/1504936991085695006/IMG_6035.png?ex=6a08cd4b&is=6a077bcb&hm=07acd1a285e394251879d513a375c7d63c2da536e6da70a0fd60a871731d49c4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=607&height=1318

[clear fable]

You are not adding a single positive thing to the conversation

[vast orbit]

It was a joke. It's crazy bad luck

Unless some stealth patch messed something up, which is why I asked when it happened

[clear fable]

yeah, and extremely not fun considering the cost we put in trading normals DM into theses

I have spent 300 DM into getting the distorted myself

[scenic canyon]

PoUA access is definitely exaggerated atm, which I think is a big reason why so many people are farming memories this time around.
Maybe limit event PoUAs to one time purchases? Maybe even potentially increase the cost to 200 AP?

[clear fable]

PoUA , what does that mean?

oh undying alegiance

[eager crater]

The big yellow coin with tons of bonus

[clear fable]

yeah, i am like 47 event level away from finaly buying one from event shop

this is the first event that I farm, because it's event density in monument is good to farm monument token for DM

I honestly don't want them to just be for pure nolife, 150 is already a big commitment

[scenic canyon]

I will say that farming PoUAs to use in memory events is the only reason why I’ve interacted so much with certain guilds and game mechanics I otherwise would probably ignore. It’s made the game much much more fun in the last months. That’s why I’d rather see PoUA access be limited to guild rewards and 1x/event, rather than see memories themselves nerfed and thus PoUA made useless

[pastel solar]

yeah there is a this great long tail reward curve from engaging in all game content to get this reward that has a huge progression pay off. its a really rewarding and fun long term endgame-play loop

maybe events can have a proof of not quite dead yet allegiance with slightly lower bonus

events arent exactly guilds

[royal gale]

i would like to see some statistics how many people actually get the PoUA because i think we are talking about a small bubble of hardcore-players here. I play alot too and never got PoUA.

[calm sundial]

Please don’t. Memory hunting is the only decent source of orns besides just running one of the meta min-maxed to death builds on endless.

[lilac sphinx]

if endless can fill that hole, why is that a problem?

[calm sundial]

Endless is mind numbingly dull, at least memory hunting has minigames.
And there shouldn’t be only one decent source of orns at endgame.

No other content in game comes close to memory hunting or endless

[lilac sphinx]

spamming memory hunts is mind numbingly dull

[calm sundial]

Cool, maybe for you, I find it more engaging than endless.
And again, there shouldn’t be only one decent source of orns

Adding some nice orns bonus to Path of Agony levels would be a wonderful alternative, I made the suggestion before but never got much traction 🤷

[fickle torrent]

That percentage would be very low lol

And to add, sure getting 150 event lvls may be easy the first time the event comes around

Now next time it will be significantly harder cause you need to reach lvl 300 on your event tab and buy nothing else

The same argument for POUA, could be said about heart of change

The main issue with the other guilds ( mostly exploration dungeons/spelunking ) is it's extremely tedious and non fun mechanics XD that don't align with your interests most the time, same can be said for fishing guild as well

The other guilds have similar interests and offer unique and non clunky gameplay

Monumental change made monuments significantly better and brought much traction towards an activity that was subbar/mediocre

Making monuments feel way better then previous

It's mainly not the event shop that's the problem with guild interactions, it's the activity/guild that's the problem

However that's way off topic XD

Overall appolyon event good has a little something for everyone, helps early game players, and the visuals are pretty

[scenic canyon]

The guild is only a problem because all these boosters were allowed to thrive and become much more common than initially planned. Remove frequent PoUAs from the equation, make Polly shrine not boost memory rewards and suddenly the current event doesn’t look nearly as strong as it does

[calm sundial]

I don’t think PoUAs are nearly as prolific as y’all think lol

[fickle torrent]

Define frequent Poua's

To my understanding that's 150 event lvl EVERY event, at least 30-50 hours of grinding hardcore, in orna probably worse depending on your location and access to event mobs, then next time it comes around your grinding way harder for it, doubling that hour count likely

It's there, but not frequent to everyone to grab

And it's not the boosters that are the problem, it's the guild activities

While towers/guild is very optimal always, you can't say towers are bad or even worse, since they are always available and that currency is what you NEED to progress regardless, whether it's celestial class or weapons, or mats/items

Monumental/guild is more appealing now ( baby towers )

Spelunking is significantly worse then most of all guilds, and exploration dungeons are mechanically clunky, and it's a pretty well hated activity XD, you explore more in a monument/tower then you would in a exploration dungeon

Fishing was nerfed down to something you could do but nothing to truely gain from it, it's also clunky and well outdated

Bof is worth it for those who pvp a lot, at some point it's more of a spec grab then anything, and without crimson it does lose appeal but same can be said for monuments without active events running that have event mobs ( also you can get more then 10 proofs per encounter now )

Conq guild, is passive incomes more so then anything, one who ones more territories is getting significantly better passive incomes them most, type of deal

But ofc pvp based guilds shouldn't be forced on everyone so them offering less then pve guilds can make sense

[steel sluice]

I see exactly 0 problems on having 4 days a year of dm loot pinatas, feel free to enlighten where the problem is

[scenic canyon]

You can see it as being a grind for every event. I see it as them being available for every event. And the game has a LOT of them. This isn’t a general problem. It’s a top of the ladder problem for sure. But it’s only going to widen the gap between hardcore and casual players. Especially if you keep those PoUAs continuously farmable

[inland mirage]

There's a certain echelon of players who will get the poua every event without altering how they interact with the game, how many of them there are, I don't know

[fickle torrent]

Not rewarding those who grind, is also an unfair take

I'm not top ladder by any means, but I wouldn't deny them either

Top ladder is there for a reason, and that gap is already there, the main gap is time invested, something you won't close unless you invest the same amount of time and effort

Closing that door doesn't make sense for anyone truely

[inland mirage]

Yeah I agree, just wouldn't put a poua in almost every event, and it has been every event since it was implemented with the rag one

I think the event allegience was pretty rewarding before any poua were added

[fickle torrent]

Heart of change is in every event too

If poua were to be removed, that would also have the same reasoning

And that's also something you have to weigh, imagine getting both XD, 300 event lvl every event would just be an insane time investment

[inland mirage]

HoC is not really something you need to buy for progression though its just if you want to switch

[scenic canyon]

Heart of change is far from being as rewarding as a PoUA

[calm sundial]

Just the 150 level is a pretty significant time investment tbh

[winged tendon]

Yeah, its is very significant

I didn't hit that in the last event

and I play more than the average player certainly

[scenic canyon]

It’s also available via other guilds, most famously through the Conq guild where it’s pretty easy to obtain imo

[fickle torrent]

It is for those who want to change 100ALs into something else

That change happens quite a bit and especially for high anguish/maluse changes/ect

As there's no 1 solution to every content, some classes farm better then others, and people do use hocs to change to a class as the meta changes

[calm sundial]

I probably average about 1-2h a day playing max, I’ve been fairly focused on dungeon grinding since the event started, and I’m barely over halfway to 150 lmao

[winged tendon]

same

well, by half way I mean around 7X for my alliance level

[fickle torrent]

I reached lvl 289 as my highest event lvl

In thronemakers XD

[scenic canyon]

Can we postpone this conversation for 18h? I have more DMs to slam

[winged tendon]

by actual numbers that's probably more like a 3rd or quarter of the way

[calm sundial]

There will always be the hardcore players, and you see most of them in community discords like this, but hitting 150 lvl is certainly not common, especially only halfway through the event lmao

[fickle torrent]

But I spent nearly 120 hours into that, not something someone normal would do likely

[winged tendon]

If someone wants to spend 120 hours grinding a game,
I think them getting a ton of stuff is fine IMO

That's a real hard grind

[inland mirage]

I think the issue is how much of an extreme differential it is when you compare it with grinding hard on almost any other content

[fickle torrent]

This event I'm lvl 87, taking it slow, mainly grinding the raids for the gear got all 4 summons on my 5 alts

[royal gale]

I can totaly see PoUAs being limited to 1 per month.

But i dont see any benefit for the normal playerbase in this discussion.

And if you want to compete in the ladder, you probably invest so much time, that you get the PoUA anyway.

[fickle torrent]

The new gear is extremely cool, the new designs, the aesthetics hit well here, making this event memory hunting focused brings even casuals to memory hunt, something usually casuals wouldn't do, bringing attention to it at least

Overall the event is really good, feels alive in a lot of contents, for lower and higher tiers of gameplay

This event is pretty good tbh

Ofc I can't even fathom the grind it is for y'all ( mainly HOA )

Since dungeons aren't in set locations ect, the grind is even more so then what I would do, y'all really shouldn't ask for even more grind

[hollow wagon]

Now that I’ve finally managed to read up on the convo, imo

• PoUA price increase or made not to refresh per event (PoUA going back to guild reward only is also fine tbh, maybe even preferable, it’s in a league of its own compared to ely and Olympian coin etc)
• nerf DM mats but make it easier to target specific bonuses; reign in the focus of DMs back to being amity hunting
• fix memory nodes from being so obscenely sensitive, they shouldn’t be shifting so much from DM to DM because of a tiny bit of GPS drift, it makes the content frustrating
• no memory buff for the event buff next Plight run, only amity quality
• no memory event in the same month as Plight

The event itself is solid; enjoying the follower rework for sure. The (nearly) unlimited raid fiesta is pretty neat too. I’d call it a success, just needs some fine tuning here and there. I was right to be excited to see Plight’s rework

[north notch]

i don't hate mnemonic farming as much as you do but i went from al 226 to al 247 (and have an easy block RN) with around 1300 mnemonics over 2 cycles of PuA + elysian. It does require having farmed the game A LOT though (both to have the 1k+ mnemonics and the PUAs)

[north notch]

mnemonic farming has been a lot better than anything else for mats for a long while and was only surpassed by agony under double proofs (if you had a ton of scrolls to go through). And agony anyway is very capped by only offering 2 mats per day so you need to prebuy and stuff.

[lunar hamlet]

Why do the servers always stop working when I use a poua

[lunar hamlet]

The titanfelled guild is not one of those

[scenic canyon]

Just stop using pouas

[north notch]

they were, not anymore. I am 165 in tower guild lvl so i think i know what i am talking about. now the loop is either monuments for mnemonics or 5 raids for them, depending on class and monument available (faction monument is always good ofc). Tower as a residual when you run out of raids and monuments to do.

[lunar hamlet]

Odie might just despise me

Literally not even 5 minutes after using a poua

[north notch]

it overshadows everything else completly, game loop becomes to farm for event xp for pua and to farm for mnemonics (clearly within events, doing xp+mnemonics is best like currently monuments); then spamming DMs.

btw i know it might be offtopic but we wouldn't have this conversation if GS endless hadn't transformed AL in "mat only", having permanently solved orns forever

[vast orbit]

Eh mats have always been the harder block

[fickle monolith]

If you were having issues around the time of this message, I can confirm that the servers were up and latency was in spec

Try toggling wifi/data next time to rule out a local network issue first

never mind, I won’t try to be helpful with you

[north notch]

up to a point, when i had to HoC to deity ara to farm 1bln/hour it wasn't as funny; i mean yes easier than mats but an additional roadblocks. Now it's only mats for all endgamers (they all have 20++ bln orns)

[minor tusk]

As a solo hunter, I disagree lol.

[lunar hamlet]

I'm 0 for 29 on couchable scouting

Literally the bad luck equivalent of a df bog

I'm skipping this hour, 0 for 30 is literally once in a lifetime levels of bad luck

[balmy briar]

Try going somewhere else 😂

[lunar hamlet]

I found one after 33 attempts

And it's fucking triple wisp, what kind of sick joke is this

[balmy briar]

Idk man my work it was hard, i came home and i was getting 5-6 back to back in a row. Its location based too

In different parties mind you, so not “couchable luck” hour wise

[lunar hamlet]

I mean, last event I was considering not getting one in the first 3 attempts to be pretty unlucky for me

I thought my location was goated

[balmy briar]

Last event was pre change 🤷‍♂️

[lunar hamlet]

Mb last poua use, aka last weekend

[balmy briar]

Ah idk then, maybe odie is mad at you for the sassiness 😂

[lunar hamlet]

Maybe bc now it's impossible to progress via memory battles

They just don't work for me now

[balmy briar]

Idk what you mean by that, like you cant do the fight nodes?

[lunar hamlet]

I do it and it never completes/progresses the hunt

[balmy briar]

Oh i think i saw yoshi say something about that bug fixing itself though

Memory could be poor tho

[lunar hamlet]

I wouldn't say it fixed

It's impossible to repeat the fight but it's also impossible to progress the hunt

[minor tusk]

I always spend full hour hunting for ornate.
2.
I got 14 ornate from Monday till Friday.
7-8 is from grinding.
1 took 2 days.
1 took 3 days.
Most I got it at the last 5 minutes of the hour.
3.
1st day I spend around 200 DM to scout and hunt.
The rest 4 days I earn 100 per day and spend it all.
4.
My source of DM mostly from BOF PVP due to the new BOF rewards.
Then Tower/Monument.
5.
I don't even spend time on Apollyon raid.
6.
I don't use PoUA. And who the heck have time to farm 150 lvls to get the proof +100%.

[peak grotto]

How good is the proof gain from BoF now?

[balmy briar]

I personally had one from monumental guild, so for reference it took 1 single day to go from seers 40-100 to get one back

[peak grotto]

I might jump in too

Seers might be the easiest guild to get to max level

[minor tusk]

It's bad but it's mindless spam while watching shows lol.

No CD and location not needed

I went from low lvl to almost top 50 in leadership board for BOF lol. Because I spam bots.

[minor tusk]

Seer at the moment ya. Way easier than Crimson BOF.

[clear fable]

what do you disagree with? you get much more ornate per Distorted memory?

We are not talking about DILUTED

but the new DISTORTED

because right now we are more than 300 DISTORTED in and none of us got a single ornate

and that was with the new shrine that is also suposed to boost

[raven merlin]

I used the only PoUA I had but I tend to play the game for fun more than grind so even though I went through several hundred DMs over the course of the two days, I only went from AL90 -> 98 This was about as much as I could do checking amities while walking to and from work and the grocery store, checking them on lunch, and dedicating maybe an hour or two after work to at least try and hunt couchables-

I’m still told I play a lot more than the average player 🤔

-> PoUA being only obtainable from an event once sounds reasonable to me

-> I’d love an endless rework into something more engaging/less farm-spammy but I might be alone in that one 😅

[lunar hamlet]

I think odie cursed me

[raven merlin]

20 proofs at max streak with both boosters

And boosters being required limits amity shenanigans so I like the tradeoff

They’ll be a flex in the next tournament 😂

[minor tusk]

I agree that POUA is reasonable ATM.
Give it to those who grind hard at event.

[lunar hamlet]

3RD FUCKING TRY LETS GO

Luckiest orna player alive fr

[minor tusk]

That's about 1.5k DM.

No ornate? It's either your luck is bad or it's bug. Report to Odie.

I used less than 15, I got 1.
There's ppl who used 7, got 1.

Another used 12. Got one.

Your Distorted is either bug or just bad luck.

[steel sluice]

1 PoUA per unique event for 150 event allegiance points is the easiest access to PoUA currently in the game. Keeping it at 1 per event type seems in line with the name of the item too.

[peak grotto]

I got it on one btw

[steel sluice]

Getting a second proof of undying allegiance makes my first proof less allegiant than undying, except if we are talking ARISEN proofs of undying allegiance ( obligatory /s )

[clear fable]

Yeah, I am glad to see our kingdom is the outlier on this, I do not want to report a bug just because we did not get lucky, that would just be a bad day for NF if everyone starts bug reporting bad luck, and I do not know where the line is where we should report completly out of line rng

It seems like we should fall on that

Curious if Odie can chime in on what the expected average be for distorted

[fickle monolith]

Yes please don’t bug report luck issues

[clear fable]

I am hoping the apolyon shrine did not like, REVERSE luck us or something

[minor tusk]

At this hour, I have an amity that most of those who join, got double ornate or 1 ornate. Literally most of them got ornate. Except like 2-3 person.

Your luck is so bad.

[clear fable]

yeah, it is, most of the comment from my guild mates are outright dejected at the new DM

Lets just say the amity is really good

I farmed the memory skip item all morning long so I could "couch" it more today, and had no luck XD

[minor tusk]

Probably that's the reason. There's one 40%cri/20%arcane haven't got an ornate yet.

[clear fable]

here is the screenshot of my misery

farming that in a single morning is not fun

(it's not a garantied drop, but you can be lucky and get 2)

[minor tusk]

I'm curious at your kingdom amity.

Wait you can farm trinket how?

[hollow wagon]

T4 mne towers

[clear fable]

the mnemonic of mnemosne can be used year round

[clear fable]

we would be sharing it with people if we could get it for the people in our kingdom

we don,t want to brag about it when we don't even have it in our accounts yet outside of like 1 person

[minor tusk]

Oh that tower. I spend it all already lol

[clear fable]

the guy that mapped it, only managed to get one and he is not available this weekend to try to get his second one hahaha

[clear fable]

i kinda.... bought 200 of the item, and then realised how painfull they are to do

[minor tusk]

You mean the ornate? What's the ornate? Sharing won't make others robbed you from the amity

[clear fable]

the ornate yeah

[vast orbit]

I'm glad I stored up like 500 of those towers

[minor tusk]

So someone got an ornate only your kingdom mate didn't.

[clear fable]

they are actualy good for farming end of dungeon rewards lol

[vast orbit]

And DMs

[minor tusk]

Mind to share what ornate was it?

[clear fable]

we mapped it out of the 10 amity parties we ran this week.
the group leader acidently got the ornate

every since, we had 2 full hours of full parties farming it to try to get theirs, using Distorted Mnemonics

1 person got his 2

1 person (the person that found it) has one

everyone else, has yet to get a single ornate copy

[clear fable]

Like I said, I do mind, because I don't want to be flooded by dms for something we are not sharing by virtue of our guild members still trying to get it before we can open for outsiders

[minor tusk]

Oh so everyone already one.

Bro your previous post is so misleading

[clear fable]

NO, only 2 people has 1

[minor tusk]

Ok so still got ornate.

[clear fable]

out of our 10 members, only 1 has 2 and one has 1

[minor tusk]

I thought no ornate for that seed.

[clear fable]

we got 8 people that has none

[clear fable]

we know the ornate, we are unable to get copies of it

Jesus, I know my english is not perfect, but surely I can't be that bad at expressing that 80% of our kingdom still has not managed to get the amity in ornate quality

[minor tusk]

You are not alone, as I said, there's one party that haven't got an ornate after 5 days.
40% cri 20% arcane DMG. Like literally no one got it yet with so many ppl trying for 5 days.

Just bad rng....

[clear fable]

yeah

[peak grotto]

So I could have done that all this time?💀

[fickle torrent]

Let golden aura bosses into the endless pool

It will make endless scarier

Arisen mammon will be the end of many summoners

[minor tusk]

Ya I was hoping it too.

[raven merlin]

New Wyrmhunt Meta: Godforge everything in one endless run

I want something like every 100 floors you get hit with a malus and there are unique floor guardians

[fickle torrent]

With their HP scaling

We'd be seeing 8 mil hp ymirs before floor 600

[minor tusk]

Like at least 1 gold boss at every 100 lvls.

[minor tusk]

Lol... That's fun.

Or at least a mini raid.

[fickle torrent]

Every dragon would have some insane hp scaling, wyrmhunt is a nightmare for that XD

[fickle torrent]

Remember when we had raids mid tower? Raids mid endless run

[raven merlin]

Floor 1-100: Normal
Floor 101-200: Enemies have minor status resistance
Floor 201-300: You are always burning
Floor 301-400: Bosses gain an AoE move
Floor 401-500: Enemies may begin fights with elemental resistances

Etc
Etc
Etc

[minor tusk]

That's a good idea. A random pool of effects.

[raven merlin]

Floor 1000: Your ALs are disabled 😂

[fickle torrent]

Make all enemies immune to statuses

Every enemy is zerk

Around floor 500 enemies get 20% beast taming

Yes let's make endless suffering

[raven merlin]

Nah that’s just being mean

But making Endless into more of a rogue-like/how far can you go experience that still gave great rewards (unique bosses/items? 👀 ) and allowed party play

Without Summoner being undisputed God Tier

Would be my dream 😂

[fickle torrent]

First before we change endless though, let's make it where every class can do endless lol, and I'd like to see many classes have multiple endless builds

[raven merlin]

So we just need Gilga to be able to endless then

Can we take some of SS3’s PvP penetration as trade?

[fickle torrent]

Hey hey I was tryna not to say it out loud

They might hear you the 3 gilga mains

[raven merlin]

I’m surrounded by them. I know there are more than 3

[fickle torrent]

We already took CS away from them

[raven merlin]

Some of them can even tank 400k turn 1 damage without parapet 😵‍💫

So…

Endless rework? 😂

[pastel solar]

gilga doesnt need to do endless

[fickle torrent]

Endless guild when?

[pastel solar]

thats why gs exists

I mean jokes aside class swaps is free feature

I play all classes

🙂

[raven merlin]

And GS can even do endless like a Deity now so

It’s okay to change endless!

[pastel solar]

oh changing endless diff topic

that would be fun

[raven merlin]

I’ve always gotta get a few good Gilga SS3 roasts in when I can

[fickle torrent]

Roguelike buffs/debuffs as you go, every 20 floors a new affix/maluse

Makes it where all classes could optimize a cool build they can't normally simulate via gear

Endless being able to be done in parties, helps multiplayer play, and ofc a endless guild, instead of mats and valuable items

Skins/exclusive followers/summons/base game gear rolls

[raven merlin]

Yeah! Though every 20 might be more of a slog than people want

But 50-100 per with floor guards with unique drops

[peak grotto]

Sir this is the plight of Apollyon thread, not the masochism thread

[raven merlin]

Have you read Apollyon’s lore?

Destroy everything you don’t like to keep the things you like better

[fickle torrent]

||all gs mains are masochists ||

[raven merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/kuzco-emperor-the-emperors-new-school-point-smug-gif-7438955610798361451

[fickle torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/gg-gif-27092095

[minor tusk]

Lolll

[peak grotto]

We don't read around here

[lunar hamlet]

So what's the point of changing nodes to only spawn on roads? For something as big as als making the most effective method location locked seems like a massive oversight

[unreal laurel]

That update was likely targeted to make amity hunting more accessible. Some people live near hard-to-reach and restricted areas. That update helped those kinds of issues.

[lunar hamlet]

Lol, it's now almost entirely inaccessible for me

It takes upwards of 20 mnemonics on average for 1 couchable

You know it's bad when I literally have 34 memory hunting alts

[balmy briar]

Odie doesnt care about couchables from the looks, on the other hand he also RAVES about his love for gps based gameplay

[lunar hamlet]

It's still stupid af how some people don't have to move for an amity while I'm guaranteed to not be couchable

[minor tusk]

Can you couch previously?

[lunar hamlet]

I used to be able to couch

FYI I'm on my 40th attempt this hour for a damn couchable

[minor tusk]

Welcome to my world where I can't even finish my amity daily quest

[minor tusk]

Try another hour.

[lunar hamlet]

Ig I'm locked out of stupidly high als due to a northern stupid obstacle

[lunar hamlet]

I've tried that... this is my 4th hour of my poua and I've spend more dms scouting than hunting

[minor tusk]

It just means your location is an issue, they might be fixing it soon.

[lunar hamlet]

They must've updated it again bc it wasn't an issue last week

[balmy briar]

I moved 5 steps to the right and my couchable nodes changed, its just like that now, try another couch 😂

I even went to ot and back at a point and it changed without me even moving irl

[balmy briar]

I think its more sensitive for some reason than we are giving credit for

[minor tusk]

Just have to move a few meters and the nodes will move. Could be bad or good.

Don't off your GPS.

Let it drift.

[lunar hamlet]

Finally found one... with 15 minutes in the hour... gee thanks game

[minor tusk]

Open all source of internet connection. 4G and WiFi.

[balmy briar]

Just go walking already 😂

[lunar hamlet]

I can't farm 90 non couchables an hour fyi

[balmy briar]

Fyi too phanny, there is a location at my work (a large property) where couchables are turned non-couchable EVERY single time. I think the way it works now allows for these spots to exist ofc depending on node locations and roads nearby

[lunar hamlet]

Ngl this event ruined balance for the game, never thought I'd say 200 als is far from impressive

[minor tusk]

Only for u.

I feel very balance. Now I can finally finish my amity daily quest.

[lunar hamlet]

Case and point, just from SCOUTING

[minor tusk]

That's very balanced.

U don't get amities but u get material.

That's balance.

[lunar hamlet]

This would take months outside of this event, how is this al balance

[calm sundial]

The lack of consistency is the worst part of the changes, this spot was fully couchable yesterday

[lunar hamlet]

I found a couchable...

Unfortunately it contains a memory battle and is therefore invalid

0/10 update, ruins the game

[raven merlin]

Though I understand they are amazing for AL mats, I don’t believe the intent of Amity hunting is Ascending

At my work it is a box with roads all around it and almost nothing there is couchable

At my apartment it is on a busy street with roads everywhere and maybe half the time things are couchable

At the park with no roads, sometimes things are couchable, sometimes they aren’t

Walking to and fro between these places I can usually get a node mapped just walking

Despite that, I still happily popped my one PoUA and farmed what I could

In the end, if we just want couchable, we should probably play HoA and not Orna? I understand the logistics of wanting to do as many Mnemonics in an hour as possible but I’d say that probably isn’t the intent behind Amity Hunting?

I understand being frustrated - but if the fear is missing out on AL materials/absolute speed, I’d actually point to AL’s runaway train (good luck fixing this) being the issue more than a change to hunts that will objectively be better QoL for most players

[lunar hamlet]

I love how couchables are also unique to each dm

I found a couchable and the very next dm wasn't couchable

[minor tusk]

Your GPS must be drifted. That's an issue that Odie need to fix. Or he can't fix.

Maybe he just need to increase the character ability to contact those circles due to zoom out.

Before this, there's VD issue, now we have this.

[lunar hamlet]

Imo this is easily the worst update orna has ever released in my 4 years of orna

Orna has never felt so unbalanced and biased

[minor tusk]

FOMO AL is indeed an issue. Hahhhaha

[lunar hamlet]

Already calling it, odie's gonna nerf memories in like 1 months so now anyone who had a perfect irl location and the time to abuse memories will now be untouchable in als

[minor tusk]

Petition to reset AL every season.

[calm sundial]

The problem is the massive decrease in couchability is a huge nerf to the only decent source of orns anywhere close to endless

[lunar hamlet]

Orns is far from a problem?

Just do endless?

[raven merlin]

It’s a valid complaint and fear

It’s what happens when you let a runaway train go

At this point you can’t stop the train without harming a not insignificant portion of the player base

But as changes occur especially around events with efficiency and more opportunities to farm and stack bonuses and such are added, there will also be a portion of the player base who feels harmed by those changes/adjustments/fear of missing out

[lunar hamlet]

0 al summoner is better than 100 al beo lol

[raven merlin]

Hard Horde dungeons
Endless dungeons
Memory hunts

These are all options

Memory hunts are still an option, you just might need to move a little or be patient for a couchable

[calm sundial]

Running endless with the meta min-maxed to death builds is mind numbing. And decent orns shouldn’t be locked to only a single activity.

[minor tusk]

It only harms competitive players if there's changes to AL.

[minor tusk]

Towers too.

[calm sundial]

Hard hordes aren’t even close , and decent orns shouldn’t be locked to only endless

[raven merlin]

You’ve run hard horde modes for 2-4 hours non-stop to compare?

[lunar hamlet]

I did it one time for a weekend back and 90 al and haven't needed it since tho

[raven merlin]

Because that’s how long a min-maxed endless run will take

Though you could also use Deity, GSH, RSC, HC and do quicker shorter endless runs and be just fine on Orns too

[lunar hamlet]

And I'm al172

[calm sundial]

The constant answer of “just do endless for orns” is exhausting tbh

It’s boring and tedious content and there should ve alternatives

There was an alternative, now it’s been nerfed into the ground

[raven merlin]

“What is the answer?”

“A, B, and C.”

“No, I don’t like A; B isn’t good; C is nerfed. What is the answer?”

“A, B, and C.”

“No. Give me a different answer.”

I understand Endless isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but like…

You’ve got other ways

Choosing not to do them is a choice

[minor tusk]

The best is still world farming raids and boss.

[minor tusk]

My best ornate amity farm since I came back last year.
14 ornate.

First party of the day, 4 final nodes.

Broooo

[twilit ocean]

I’m sure there’s a better channel or thread to post that in

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1504192111778468102
this exists too

[wet kite]

Have not seen those screenshots.

[wet kite]

Ah we gonna label good farming as abuse again

I thought we were past that.

I enjoy the heck out of this event <3

[twilit ocean]

as much as i hate to say it, it does feel broken.
The comparison between normal grinding and memory hunting is just crazy, to the point where what would normally take months can be obtained in a matter of hours

There might be a split between those who can / did take advantage of it and those who did not / couldn't.

[wet kite]

Is'nt that always the case?

Memory hunts are'nt precisely fun IMO so its more of a chore

Especially wisp tapping and the 5x5 tap thing

[lunar hamlet]

Bruh this lag is crazy😭 I just used a dm and it spawned in the 2nd stage of the hunt

[lunar hamlet]

Agreed, al150 to 217 in 2 days is something that used to take players a literal year

[grand dust]

My very simple idea how a grind game should work is: you should mainly farm by playing the main game. Not through refineries , not by memory hunts. These can of course be alternatives, but it doesn't make sense that 24 hours of hardcore grinding memory hunts gives the same rewards as 20 days (I don't know how much it would take) of playing dungeons etc. 1 DM gives around max 2k mats w/o PoUA and 4k with PoUA. So with couchable you can probably get around 160k mats per hour (on avg), which is crazy.

[twilit ocean]

200 was never something i even thought was possible for me within 2 years :p

[grand dust]

An easy solution could be to make memory hunt bonus additive instead of multiplicative.

[lunar hamlet]

Less than an hour of memory hunting

That's not all cuz I have more than 10 als

[scenic canyon]

It’s not like the DMs and the PoUAs are free though. To get these gains you need to be planning for months beforehand. I think the current event took it a little too far with the shrine, compounded with the fact that the last 3 events had PoUAs available. Limit PoUA access and this becomes something you can realistically only do a few times per account

[lunar hamlet]

I wouldn't say months, each month now provides a poua and you can get 1k+ a week with the right monument rng

[noble sky]

this kind of speed is more for mat/orn farming rather than hunting quality memory

[scenic canyon]

If you’re farming 1k DMs a week, you’re hardcore grinding those monuments, not a regular amount most players are getting at all. Agree on the PoUA, which is why I think that needs changing

[lunar hamlet]

I mean, iudi said he got 1500 in one week lmao

[scenic canyon]

How many hours invested did that take though?

[lunar hamlet]

Btw it's a actually ridiculous how damn laggy the game gets when o use a poua

[lunar hamlet]

Idk, probably skipped work for the entire week lol

[scenic canyon]

Exactly. Not exactly something easily replicated

[lunar hamlet]

Having 13 monuments at your ot with like half of them faction aligned certainly helps

[lunar hamlet]

Something impossible for me due to location

I can't even get 1/4th of that

[grand dust]

Even without PoUA, memory hunting currently can give you around 120k 80k mats per hour (-> 1 hunt per minute). So I agree that PoUA is a part of the problem, but even without this, memory hunting is substantially more rewarding than playing the game. Up to the point where playing only a few days with hardcore grinding this event is more rewarding than playing the rest of the year.

[somber wigeon]

Average mats per node is more around 636, with undying

Sample size 100

[grand dust]

yeah, i just realized that i calculated with max rewards, not avg rewards

[lunar hamlet]

Fuck

Ofc it's at 4:59

So no scouting

[lunar hamlet]

Not really a point in discussing just how broken it is cuz they can't remove it from the game

[grand dust]

As I noted above: "An easy solution could be to make memory hunt bonus additive instead of multiplicative."
This was done before for elemental damage etc, why not for memory hunting.

[lunar hamlet]

Can't do that

Any nerf to the event would make the game extremely bias towards anyone whose abused memory hunts in the past

[grand dust]

which is the same as for every other nerf, like refineries, no?

[lunar hamlet]

Exactly, and that was unfair, especially for those high als advocating for its nerf

They're basically just pulling the ladder up from under them

[grand dust]

Yeah, I heard this argument and partly agree. However, I really don't like that the game pushs you so hard to hardcore grind memories. I hate this incentive.

[lunar hamlet]

Maybe they should implement the nerf I'm going through rn, just make the hame so laggy it's basically unplayable when you use a poua

[twilit ocean]

i get that, esp as someone having started only a bit before the refinery nerf.
But my sole concern is that every other grind - towers, dungeons, monuments, etc - feel rather negligible (outside of farming for DMs) compared to memory hunts

[grand dust]

Another related thing: I also hate the 48 hours consumables (elysian coin etc). For me, a big plus of the game was always that everybody can play what he wants to play. There are so many options. But if you care only a littel bit about efficiency, than you are left no choice than heavily grinding only 1 content for 48 hours during the right time of the year. Which is no fun.

Which is mainly due to the multiplicative bonus. With additive bonus, I think this would be ok.

[lunar hamlet]

I might just skip an entire poua

This is actually torture

It takes 40 minutes on average to find a couchable bc it's so laggy

[somber wigeon]

you're supposed to keep list of ready parties with already scouted couchable for every hour

[lunar hamlet]

I live in a horrible place so all 30 alts typically aren't couchable most of the time

[somber wigeon]

make more

[lunar hamlet]

Started the event with 15 lol, I don't think it's gonna work

[somber wigeon]

ah

switching party will also take ages though

[minor tusk]

Guys, it's a one month event, just enjoy it

[lunar hamlet]

Poua is a 2 day event

[twilit ocean]

i think you could say that every month

[scenic canyon]

It’s not though, it’s a 4 day event where people are using consumables that took them months to unlock. Losing them is justifiably frustrating

[lunar hamlet]

But yeah overall probably skipping this poua and just gonna let it burn out

[minor tusk]

And let them enjoy that two days.

[twilit ocean]

i rawdogged the entire thing with creating and disbanding parties 🫠

probably cost a few extra dms though...

[minor tusk]

Losing who?

[lunar hamlet]

This is the worst orna experience I have ever had in 4 years, unbelievably frustrating that the first and 2nd time every using a poua the game is basically unplayable

[twilit ocean]

losing the consumables

[scenic canyon]

The PoUAs, that are unusable due to the lag

[twilit ocean]

poua, elysian coin in particular

[minor tusk]

Oh you talking about the lag and stuck battles ok

I thought you talking about gaining mats for AL.

[twilit ocean]

they're kind of related in this context since the AL grind right now is memories...

[lunar hamlet]

Removing the battle node hasn't helped either

[minor tusk]

It's the server, u have to wake for Odie to wake up.

[lunar hamlet]

Would've been nice if he did something before he went to bed

[minor tusk]

I just stop doing memory and watch YouTube lol

[lunar hamlet]

It's been laggy since I used the coin

[minor tusk]

I think he did something before he sleep.

[lunar hamlet]

Poua active so not an option

[minor tusk]

Tha why issue came out lol

[scenic canyon]

Maybe pushing changes (if that did happen) out on a Friday night while one of the most anticipated events of the year is ongoing was not ideal

[lunar hamlet]

30 minutes into the hour I find a couchable and it's a fucking memory battle 1st node so it's invalid

[raven merlin]

So run dungeons? PoUA affects those too

I’m annoyed with the lag too but I’ve still been hunting memories and running content and it’s just a bit slower

Maybe I’m just used to potato connection but the point stands

[minor tusk]

4 couchable and it's stuck

I should be more angry

[lunar hamlet]

I haven't made thousands of mats an hour before running dungeons

For me the entirety of the game isn't functioning

[raven merlin]

Sounds like we should remove ascensions as the fomo is ruining everyone’s experiences

(Yes I’m kidding)

[scenic canyon]

Just remove the game, that should take care of all frustrations

[raven merlin]

You got me

Can’t argue with that

[minor tusk]

Lollllll later ppl quit the game. I blame u

[raven merlin]

For the record, I’ve seen plenty of players quit over the virtual rat race grind to infinity

But even I don’t think a removal is remotely doable at this point

And is aside from the point of the event

(And I need to feel cool when I finally hit AL100) 😂

[lunar hamlet]

Ngl I can't think of a single update in ornas history that's been worse than this other than maybe adding als to begin with

First couchable of the hour 47 minutes in

[north notch]

in orna how many event XP do you get from fighting event apollyon?

[minor tusk]

Almost all games are about grinding, most players attention span is 15 mins Max.

That's why it's DEV job to find a balance.

You got
shorter monument,
Events that reduce floors aka Giant/Titan,
Shorter memories step,
Buff that boost it,
Rewards that are now greater compare to 2019,
Etc.

But you know, ppl will complain.

Give reward buff, don't like.
Give more materials, don't like.
Give more power eg AL, don't like.
Nerf this, don't like.
Buff that, don't like.
Give more event items eg POUA, don't like.
Make memories easier, don't like.

Life is hard. You need a therapist.

[minor tusk]

10++?

It's actually faster to do the monument or dungeon to get event exp.

But apollyon is not limited by location, so your location is not pack with monuments or dungeon, Apollyon raid or event mobs at the raid is the best.

[shrewd fulcrum]

I’m reading this and it makes no sense how are you making 4K mats per dm? I don’t have POUA. But without that I should hit 2k that isn’t happening. Have the pet put coin, astral tree , double 100% amity and I’m getting 150 - 300 per node so 600 - 1200 per dm

[cloud pecan]

Using great oracle? Maxed boost items?

[shrewd fulcrum]

I don’t have great oracle either I have full Mnemosyne gear celestial weapon with Mnemosyne heart x 5

2 bands pants armor shield

[balmy briar]

With the old memory kit pre-mnemosyne, i was pulling 3k if not a little more at times. Someone saying 4k isnt getting 4k EVERY dm as that would be only high rolls. Safe to say they were getting 2k-4k per DM more so

[north notch]

range fully capped is 396 - 1189 (6-18 base, 66 multiplier)

per step

[minor tusk]

without POUA and surrounded.
I'm getting 396 mats max so around 1.6k max per DM
And it's random.
I've been doing it without the buff since patch and before Odie make all the changes.
It's still good. But probably not as good as this week.

I don't mind rewarding those who grind the event for POUA.

[north notch]

are you all killing the 35 guys in the rift, using astral tree and activating apo shrine

[north notch]

are you doing the memories as beo?

[shrewd fulcrum]

As a Beo.A

I have apoll shrine active

What do you mean killing all 35 guys?

[somber wigeon]

That's for hoa, lower limit for orna is around 300

top end is 951

[north notch]

Which multipliers differ?

[somber wigeon]

riftbreak boost not available in orna

[north notch]

Ahh ok

[grand dust]

This is without PoUA. 475 mats, 26 guild points. Theoretical best case: 4x.

Which is consistent with the 951 mats with PoUA mentioned above.

(per node)

[inland jay]

Jesus, 26 raids in 1 hour is insane. Anyone have a better way to level up in this event?

(25, one was a reminder, but still thats an insane boost)

[lunar hamlet]

Hopefully odie wakes up and fixes this lag soon

Or ay least gives me a free poua cuz I pretty much wasted one

[balmy briar]

When has it not lagged at this time phanny ?

[inland jay]

Wait, thats a glitch?

[lunar hamlet]

I can't even create a new party

It auto disbands after a few minutes

*seconds

[scenic canyon]

It was lagging for the past 9h, when NA was asleep

[balmy briar]

Yes i saw that, but thats why im saying why be surprised about now?

[lunar hamlet]

Oh for me it's close to 17 hours

[balmy briar]

I also like giving phanny shit 😂

[lunar hamlet]

It happened almost immediately after using my poua

[scenic canyon]

True, I just went to bed when it started lagging initially

[minor tusk]

That's the issue.

[lunar hamlet]

I'm trying my hardest to make the use of my poua despite having literally the worst poua luck ever

[eager crater]

He's already awake and made some relevant statements

#👋│general message

Flip a switch 👍

[lunar hamlet]

I mean, it seems to be unplayable for everyone in global aswell, so idk why everyone hasn't done that

[silver sundial]

"Good Farming" > 4k mat and 2m orn Per 20 sec. Naaa, not abuse, everything fine

[lunar hamlet]

Ah yes me spending 2 months getting 1 al in the 130s, now in the 170s I get 10 als this morning

[wet kite]

If the main games loop gets inproved reward wise (mostly guild mats not beeing AWFUL to obtain through wait and then buying everything sloooowly when it shows up) that sounds reasonable.

The reason Memory Hunts are so good is mostly mat availablility.

I can grind myself a lotta shards very quickly but then waiting for the mats usually takes a month.

[hollow wagon]

Phantom that wasn’t meant for you, quoted the wrong person lol

[hollow wagon]

While I agree with you on the need for balance it’s hard to take you seriously when you’re reacting to disagreement with clown emoji reacts and sarcasm

[north notch]

you should stop using the word "abuse" to describe people playing content AS INTENDED BY THE GAME DEVELOPER . You can and should criticize if you think it's unbalanced. But abuse should be reserved to people who do things that are known bugs yet provide massive resources. Intended gameplay is never abusive

[inland jay]

Jesus, the servers are LAGGING, whats going on?

[lunar hamlet]

If intended is what you wanna call this

[lunar hamlet]

I used a poua

[north notch]

odie has been present in this chat and commented and never claimed it wasn't intended. He said repeatedly PUA is hard to obtain , the rewards deserved, and the staking of events a rare occurrence

[lunar hamlet]

I've obtained 6 doesn't seem that hard

[north notch]

you might have obtained one by abusing (maybe 2) the xp bug for raids

[lunar hamlet]

Raids had an xp bug?

[north notch]

yes a 12m HP raid gave more xp if you overkilled it, so deity got massive xp from kingdom raids

[lunar hamlet]

I tried raids one time for jormungandr event, hated it, and never touched raids again for event exp

[lunar hamlet]

Beo main over here🥲

[lunar hamlet]

I wasn't online when that bug was around

[north notch]

beo massively overkills with beoa TF as well ; anyway bug has been fixed

[lunar hamlet]

I just run lots and lots of dungeons

[north notch]

anyway just check how many people are 150 in anguish 2.0, or tower guild. Monuments is easier (still requires regular gameplay but with thronemakers it became easier). Mnemonic guild is "automatic". Then there were 2 past events and the current one

[scenic canyon]

But how are you going to get the remaining ones is the question? Guild ones are finite, the true issue arises from them being so common in events now.

[lunar hamlet]

Idk what the point is anymore tbh, I'm close to anguish one

Ornaversery will have a double proof event

[north notch]

when you say something isn't hard you should check how many people achieved it in 1 year

[lunar hamlet]

So I just need some agony and torment

[north notch]

over tens of thousands of players if not more

[lunar hamlet]

Easy ones are bof and seers, intermediate are monuments and spelunking, hard I'd anguish and cg, stupid is towers and travelers

[north notch]

bof isn't easy, most people hate bof and the rewards for doing it are minimal at best (outside of crimson events, where they were bad anyway compared to other content)

[lunar hamlet]

Wym? It's arguably the easiest in the game

[north notch]

spelunking is like torture for everyone with 0 extra rewards, it's by far the worst experience in the game for 99% of players, even opening one of those dungeons they should pay me

the idea of doing something only for the xp is already 0.1% of the players, it's already super hard, most people don't have time already to do intended content related to event or progression. Finding more time ONLY for the guild xp is the definition of hard

[winged tendon]

I think you don't realize how much effort you've put in to get those
and how much of an outlier you are.

Even if they are "easy" to get, they require a ton of effort.

[north notch]

you call towers stupid when for a long while it has been by far the best content reward wise so efficient player who are time-limited, would have done mostly that alone anyway...

[lunar hamlet]

Some of then are genuinely easy (from my experience) and some aren't, I disliked bof but compared to the rest it's easy, seers is just easy by all metrics, monuments weren't too bad cuz it was thronemakers and it was rewarding, I wouldn't wish spelunking upon my worst enemy, but it's easy and mindless gameplay wise

[lunar hamlet]

Bro it's literally monuments but you face harder enemies and only get 1 xp per group

[north notch]

you get 10-30 mats every single floor and 1 mnemonic every 50

[lunar hamlet]

It would take me another 800 towers yo get to 250 assuming they are all 50f

[north notch]

and more proofs as there are more t10 enemies, and shards convert into mats far better than proof of mon

[lunar hamlet]

Exactly, great reward

[lunar hamlet]

That's not the point of proof of monument and never has been

Mnemonics and summoning scrolls are the main purpose

And it's a far faster way to make dms

[north notch]

having 2 shops to unlock mat blocks instead of one (anguish) for AL is massive long term

[lunar hamlet]

Coming from someone with 10 million towershards lol

[north notch]

if you could buy all mats all the day for agony then well, towers will be less relevant; and now with mnemonics being completly busted yes towers are less relevant

i made more than 1M shards / day all january

tower guild 165 here

for like what 18 months, towers were by far, with literally no alternative, the best way to AL. Like to your 5 50f every day before even thinking of doing anything else, then re-assess was the loop for all endgamers

[minor tusk]

Phantom is complaining because he can't get his 4k mats per DM.

[north notch]

i guess i would complain as well if that was the case for me

hasn't event ended anyway?

[lunar hamlet]

Huh?

[minor tusk]

Due to lag

[lunar hamlet]

I was talking about how proof of monuments aren't intended to buy raw mats and are the best way to farm dms and summoning scrolls

[minor tusk]

It was never about the mats. It's about him not able to get it.

[north notch]

pre pua mnemonics weren't that great . Fine yes, insane no

[minor tusk]

During the lag

And he is FOMO

[north notch]

but it might be slightly different for this orna vs hoa tbh

ye couchables were 50++ per hour, hoa was capped 25-30 per hour with good setups, now with updates it's like we have all couchables...

[minor tusk]

Still great for me before the event.

I was getting 396 max mats before surrounded and poua

[north notch]

with elysian or without

[minor tusk]

With.

So i actually dunno why ppl are complaining about poua

It's limited, it's grind from guilds and event.

[north notch]

it's a tad too good tbh. I am not complaining but basically optimizing their usage this event matters more than what you did the entire previous year lol

when in 2 days of heavy playing you get more AL-ing than 1 month of serious farming...

and with serious farming i mean 2k raids and 100 + 50f towers in a month

[minor tusk]

Optimising happens all the time, it's just how players play the game.

[minor tusk]

So? They grind for the POUA.
They grind for the DM.

[north notch]

man i am one of the people getting the edge from this so i am not complaining from outside

al 247 rn with easy blocks and plausible path to 10-15 more AL if not too unlucky with RNG

[winged tendon]

Orna is always gonna have these kinds of overhelmingly more efficient strategies as long as bonuses stack multiplicatively

[minor tusk]

Your AL gets you even better mats lol.

[north notch]

even before PUA-mnemonic optimization, some content was too much better than other content (for AL). Paradoxically having to farm all events for the PUA makes content more balanced..

this current event is the first one i am farming for xp. No need for the items (i had them from the raid already), i am doing the monuments FOR the xp (and the mnemonics). I didn't before, i didn't in the previous 2 because mnemonic farming was horrid in HOA so i had 3 PUAs already from guilds and no intention of using them. I literally did one PUA last july and it was so tilting to do mnemonics for hours on HoA i paused the game for 6 weeks, complete burnout. But the update now made mnemonics like orna couchables basically

i even tried endless this event to see how much event xp i could make there...

[scenic canyon]

The fact that the PoUA forces you to interact with every type of content if you want them all is low key the best part of this meta

[north notch]

yes bordoas that's why i said paradoxically

[scenic canyon]

Im agreeing with you 😅

I think the Polly shrine didn’t need to give more memory rewards. Other than that, I have no issues with planning for months on how to get PoUAs and DMs and then running them when memory events come around

[north notch]

now with hindsight i would have got crimson and ragnaros puas as well but whatever, i only got lvl 100 there, hopefully pua next iteration of the event will be available

[scenic canyon]

It’s not like you can not play for 90% of the year and then get a bunch of ALs in 4 days, you need to invest beforehand to be able to use those days

[north notch]

when moondrops give 80 proofs each...

in 3 days...

[winged tendon]

sounds like your agony levels is very high

[north notch]

as it should be for all endgamers like 3 months after it came out if lazy, 2 weeks if not lazy (i was lazy)

[scenic canyon]

You still need to farm the moondrops first and then be able to clear them at high agony. And there are probably more efficient ways to farm DMs regardless

[north notch]

depends if you hit the 100% bof amities which i didn't for now but yes there might be even better ways to farm DMs

[minor tusk]

Well, I got alll my DM from bof lol. Now I need to farm Arena tokens

[north notch]

can buy in great market like you buy elstone or orichalcum for AL...

[minor tusk]

Not fast enough.

[north notch]

lol?

[minor tusk]

I'm getting like 3-5k proofs per day. Depends on who I am fighting.

Roughly 300-500 matches per day.

[north notch]

you can get 10k+ arena token in 15-20 min as per video. I do it regularly for AL mats

[minor tusk]

Oh wait, I forget about the refresh damn it. Thanks!

[north notch]

eh 🙂

[minor tusk]

Time to grind Arena tokens through buying hahahhahhaha

[silver sundial]

absolutly nobody had issue calling refs an abuse in its time. And it was no bug either

[silver sundial]

Sorry but it is borderline dishonesty or true ignorence to call DM being a standard legit farming.
Again, between 2k and 4k mats every 5 seconds.
I know you're a lot here abusing it like gobelins, but lets be honest for a sec : That's breaking the game, that's breaking the endgame, that make AL a joke.
I'm not here to debate, i stand facts.
So eventually the only debate left would be to know if it is the Orna we want. i liked it better when it was a pretty hard game, but ifbyou guyz are okay with what is happening since a year, np.
Just a reminder :

• Agony farming took month to nerf and broke the game for high AL players, and people abused it. (Still kinda broken btw)
• Horde dungy are broken since BL2 gameplay
• PvP is in its worse state ever
• deity can output 150m+ damage turn 7
• Beo is broken from A to Z
• GSA endless is so broken it almost make you regret the time Dara was a thing
• Broken consumable and coins are now available all year thanks to events, and easy af to obtenir
• Kingdom Rework LoL
• Mask > Exist
• Mnemosyne stuff > Exist
• Reraise strat making you unkillable > exist
• And of course, the final boss of all : 2 to 4k mat per 5 sec on DM. Refs are a todler compare to this.

[lunar hamlet]

It's definitely legit guys

[silver sundial]

Delusionnal everywhere, that's crazy. And the only thing people think to talk about is how the latest shrine is "maybe a bit too much" 🤣

[lunar hamlet]

I skillfully went from al138 to al181

[silver sundial]

Remember when this was something to be proud of ?

Well lol, GSA AL0 stuff, gg wp

[lunar hamlet]

Ez 2050 floors for my 105 al gsa

[silver sundial]

i swet for weaks trying to get those 1000 floor. So happy it is a noob stat now

[eager crater]

Skill issue

[twilit ocean]

Again, like delirax said, there’s no need for being rude…

[silver sundial]

Be dishonest or even malevolant just to discredit someone with 6 words against massives facts of numbers , probably just to be sure to keep abusing a breach >> you got clown.
And honestly the clown emote should be way more used on this discord. When it is deserved, it is deserved.

[runic anvil]

Dude, you need to step back and take a break from discord.

You are literally radiating misery.

[lunar hamlet]

Love how he says like half the classes and lists them as "broken"

[unborn forge]

I actually agree with Kayakexx wholeheartedly. Can we punch up the language on the points and pin them to Odie and team's morning mirror?

[fickle monolith]

I’ve already been active in this thread, so no need to make the studio more aware

But yeah, let’s fix our attitude here. Will slow mode/issue timeouts for continued poor communication

[scenic canyon]

Calling people dishonest and then claiming DMs give 2 to 4k mats per 5 seconds is actually ironic

[lunar hamlet]

He found a new super proof of undying allegiance bro

[pallid knot]

I think ppl may be getting too many ALs too fast, but those are the ones that absolutely play 24/7. I was pretty happy to go from 94 to 96 AL this week

[lunar hamlet]

+300% memory rewards

[north notch]

Also calling intended gameplay abuse is just wrong. And that's not a claim against allowing people to discuss what they perceive as being a balance problem. They should. But it's not abuse to just play content stacking buffs the developer made to stack intentionally (!!!)

[silver sundial]

i just stopped doing the belly dancing on maincord trying not to hurt peoples feelings. That lead nowhere since a while. The community of this game is hurting it more than helping it. I truly think, sadly, that NF should listen a little less at people around here, and i really never though i would say this about a game in my life

[winged tendon]

Yeah, it's hard for me to take some of the people seriously that say stuff like

it's way too fast, and "proofs of undying allegience are easy to get"

cause' like, they are playing way way way way way more than 99.999% of the playerbase
so it make sense they would have way more stuff
and have way more access to material generation when using what are actually extremely scarce resources requiring a ton of time investment

[twilit ocean]

4k is a pretty lucky roll, but i agree with most points on how the game is unbalanced in several places
Might be more wise to create another thread, though, if it strays from the memory hunting aspect

[lunar hamlet]

Yeah I have like 6 but all I've done for the past year has been farm guilds lol

[north notch]

Kyalek I am 99% sure players not on discord are not even aware optimized mnemonic farm is so good and are just happy mnemonics are a little more rewarding for them than before and a little more doable

[runic anvil]

It has nothing to do with hurting people's feelings, you need to take a step back and realize that you are doing a disservice to what you are trying to push.

[pallid knot]

Maybe PoUA shouldnt give you memory Hunt bonuses. Also apolly event sjould give a 10% boost instead?

[lunar hamlet]

There's nothing you can do now since so many people have already farmed it it wouldn't be fair to newer players

"How tf does this guy have 400 als???"

[wet kite]

Maybe if the game is not what you enjoy, because you think the way we play is dishonest while we use the possibilitys presented (that are all public knowledge and work as intended), this could just be the wrong game for you. Maybe something more straightforward with less options like POGP or MH Unite would be more appropriate?

[winged tendon]

So then you getting a bunch of ALs was actually the culmination of a year+ worth of farming
Just the setup took way longer than the part where you were actively getting materials?

[pallid knot]

So roll back refineries too? The best moment to balance a bit is always now. Better than leaving unbalanced

[twilit ocean]

oh i ran into that guy in a coliseum the other day 🫠

[silver sundial]

i'm not. Things need to be said, they are.
I'm almost 5 years in this game, i love(d) it, but ngl i'm 99% done with it and yeah , maybe i need to vent about how bad things have become before retiring i suppose.

[scenic canyon]

Reduce PoUA availability (either cap event ones to a one time redeem or outright remove them from most events) and you’ll go back to being able to do this just a few times over your orna account’s existence. People are blowing this way out of proportion, it’s not like it’s something that can be done continuously or even semi-consistently

[lunar hamlet]

Crazy to think he was only al280 10 months ago..

[scenic canyon]

I don’t think discussing people that aren’t in guild leaderboards is a fair comparison, given how they usually get removed from them…

[unborn forge]

let max level be 250 and max ascension be 250

[twilit ocean]

that's a pretty crazy grind...

[north notch]

In general this is true yes. Some balancing around some of the multiplicative stacking mnemonic buffs might be reasonable. Not sure PUA nerfing is the way though, just shaving 5-10% off event/apo shrine/ apo event could be enough

[pallid knot]

I mean there will always be highschoolers and the like that play all night and day in every game. And thats not diminishing kids or anything, its just the way things happen irl

[lunar hamlet]

Yeah ik lol, just thought it was funny, the true comparison would be geppu considering his entire account was built around farming memories for als, something that would not be possible after a nerf on dms

[scenic canyon]

Geppu was already the goat before DMs even existed, he’s just the best at figuring out what’s optimal and going for that

[north notch]

Not sure if that stereotype holds anymore these days, in my experience since WFH became a thing it's 30-40y old people who can optimize gameplay around their desk work that push the hardest in these kind of games

[runic anvil]

I'm not going to dig into you because I've had some periods of being somewhat of a prick here myself. Hell, I got the last wyrmhunt topic locked temporarily because I was going through some crap and couldn't keep my attitude in check; it didn't make people listen to me about how badly designed I thought wyrmhunt towers were, it probably made people think "Oh, Drel is here complaining again. Must be a day that ends in y".

I eventually realized it and stepped back for a bit, because venting and going in on people never gives you the outcome you are after.

[pallid knot]

Damn thats nuts. If I played as i worked i'd despise Orna just because it'd make me think of work 😭

[hollow wagon]

Just wanted to hop back in and say kudos on being able to look back on it and reflect, it’s refreshing to see

[wet kite]

Shrine, memory event & event buff itself are on purpose i assume.

I think the 48 hour items are fine. As they are hard to get.

[north notch]

yes jsut saying they should yield 5% less, i mean it's not strange to discuss event mat costs, bonus and so on right? sometimes some stuff is priced too low, sometimes too high, mnemonic buffs are a tad too high. IIRC memory event was 15% at the beginning btw, as was for hoa completing the rift by killing minions

[runic anvil]

Honestly, the most helpful part was withdrawing myself from beo/deity balance whining

[wet kite]

Looking at the price of stuff this Event i think the big mnemos are overpriced.

Shrine is expensive but its worth it.

Mnemo hunt is fine IMO. I would'nt mind it getting tuned down if it was'nt the only reliable source of proper mat gain as guild mat cycle is a badly underdeveloped system.

[wet kite]

It was terrible, im glad its over x3

[lunar hamlet]

Idk why spelunking torch is the rarest item in orna and yet only lasts 6 hours instead of 28

Makes no sense

48*

[wet kite]

Well, its because its the spelunking guild and uh... can't really add anything else to it.

[lunar hamlet]

Not only that it also sees the least use in orna with the only viable use being ornaversery

[wet kite]

Spelunking surely gets a rework soon. I don't know many people who are willing to play it, and even less who like it.

[lunar hamlet]

I am one of those people lmao

[wet kite]

I remember it getting released and then almost immediately abandoned, it has not seen any use yet in events etc.

I love the idea of an exploration dungeons but its basically all i dislike about HoA + minigames of which some are fun and some are atrocious.

[lunar hamlet]

Wait till you see the new event spelunking dungeons they about to release😂

Any month now

[wet kite]

Honestly i do hope that never happens... Event towers are tedious enough ^^"

[lunar hamlet]

Fishing event coming soon

[fickle torrent]

Fishing and spelunking forever forgotten

Exploration dungeons need a huge rework

Like what monuments went through

Fishing, needs more dynamic change to it, and a more fun system really

[wet kite]

Fishing at least has this grandpa minigame vibe to it after the last rework where everything went from an already oversimplified minigame to "everything is for some reason oversized and looks weird"

[minor tusk]

Seems like everything is broken.

In a world where everyone have super powers, super powers doesn't seems like very valuable at all.

That's why ppl like @uneven charm play hard mode.

[lunar hamlet]

No guild is forgotten for me

[wet kite]

Grinding spelunking and finesse lv 60 would be worse then waterboarding for me but tastes differ

[lunar hamlet]

I have some fun with spelunking tho

[runic anvil]

I don't think spelunking has been forgotten given the votes it got back in the winter, seems more things have just been addressed as they could be touched on with events. BoF with crimson festival, memories with apolyon, etc.

I would be shocked if spelunking got nothing all year, I remember it being second first or second in vote count on the survey.

[fickle torrent]

Yeah after that vote I was shocked to see monuments get a rework before exploration dungeons tbh XD

It made me think the vote was more for fun and not in heavy consideration more so

[lunar hamlet]

I didn't know there was a survey 🥲

[wet kite]

Saaaame

[fickle torrent]

It was in winter, quite a few months ago XD

It was well decided that spelunking was the most wanted rework

Bof/fishing running up for second place

[runic anvil]

Nah, with those sorts of things it's always a mess to figure out what to set out on first. Do you do go for spelunking dungeons because they got the largest vote share, or do you hit monuments because it's far more popular content? Those sorts of decisions are always a pain, and they are no doubt scheduled to be baked into events as we go this year.

I'm now imagining the rework to spelunking dungeons dropping during Ragnarok. "Dig up 4 torc- oh an angry Fey Surtr just popped out of the ground"

[fickle torrent]

I hope we get a complete rework on exploration dungeons, there's not much to explore rn, and the mini games aren't fun

Alongside being better multiplayer comparability, make a dungeon that has traps and loot boxes, secret rooms, monsters and ore dens to loot, and at the end a unique boss that gives a load of ore

If spelunking doesn't see a complete rework and just a mediocre event tie I still don't see many people doing them nor caring too, since those dungeons are unrewarding compared to everything else

[hot mauve]

Fwiw it was entirely a community-run survey and was not guaranteed to change Northern Forge's short term plans

That entire survey stemmed for me wanting to know what people percieved the strongest class to be and then things spiraled out of hand and it became a major survey 😆

That entire survey was almost just a poll "What do you think the strongest class is" in #🍂│late-game-⭐10

[runic anvil]

I just remember seeing beautiful filtered data. It was glorious.

[fickle torrent]

I think it was beo/deity voted most XD

Gilga/summoner tied

Realmshifter/hera not even considered

[minor tusk]

Damn it heretic, we need more players.

[unborn forge]

Hera not considered!?

"wait until they get a load of m-"
immediately slips on a banana peel, impaling myself in the eye with my magic stick while barging through the saloon doors

[minor tusk]

We need some heretic lores

[unborn forge]

I also tripped over a spiked shield in the process

[unborn forge]

wait. don't make Heretic OP. I wanna remain the strongest mage 👉👈

[lunar hamlet]

What about miyamoto?

Oh nvm I didn't see you get 100 million new als

Lol

My goal is lv250 al250

I'm al181 so still got a ways to go

[unborn forge]

ha yeah, AL 222 to 250 overnight cuz of how things are. That 2 AL difference makes me the strongest. and well, I talk to him time to time, but he's not really known to care about pvp. kinda bad at it actually 😅
perhaps if I just go back to boss hording and questing I'll get back above him in global. I'm pretty darn satisfied with the 250 AL. no need to concentrate on that anymore. I'll just be filling my other 3 unlocked classes for ranking.

apologies for going off topic

[lunar hamlet]

He used to straight up not have a pvp build lol, it was just his vd build on pvp

Although now he has a basic chakram build

Not a good day for ibwipvp, 2 wars today

This is a new glitch that makes it impossible to start a new war

[balmy briar]

What does that have to do with this event 🤣

[lunar hamlet]

We just have to wait

For a patch

[lunar hamlet]

All our members inflated their als from the event, duh

[balmy briar]

Oh right phil covered this for me 😂