Memory Hunt Changes - Server patch 1.303

[sonic karma]

i also had a small sample size to work with, but i think there is something to go off of here

[alpine vortex]

I have no dms from you.... someone is trying to silence our love of math

[sonic karma]

[wraith zephyr]

Mysterious bug trying to stop big data to find out the truth behind the questions of memory.

[modest garnet]

Seowqj used meditate! It hurt itself in confusion...

[pseudo topaz]

My game froze at the wrong moment 💀

[alpine vortex]

Hollllllldddd

[pseudo topaz]

I held on for dear life 😆

[alpine vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/hold-stonk-hold-wallace-hold-braveheart-stonks-gif-20142609

[heady lantern]

Can someone fill me in on how it works now? Are we able to keep doing the amity parties? So much has changed. Big memory event coming up next week and I want to be ready

[alpine vortex]

It will depend largely on your local area now.

We can still map in a party, just no guarantee anyone else can reach

[next furnace]

After a few days I still don't see the advantage of moving towards roads if the roads are farther away.
Also, smaller roads are normally safer than bigger roads, that are normally not walkable, and should ne taken into account.
Also, if I am playing in a public park, here in Italy normal public parks are normally 1km per side, snapping amities to the roads makes very little sense.
The only case I can imagine that makes worth snapping nodes to street/roads is when the amity hunt starts while I am positioned on a steet.
If I am on a big road it means that 90% of the cases I am driving, and I would say not supposed to play Orna.
So I am glad that something has been fixed, but I still see several nonsenses.

[wraith zephyr]

Odie mixes both snapping and static. So some will snap, some won't.

[next furnace]

I know, but I think you did not understand my post.

[wraith zephyr]

The reason why it snap to the road is because in some places, it's private property, so we can't access it.

That's why now we have hybrid of snapping and not snapping.

Im just telling u why it exist in the first place.

[next furnace]

Still it should not snap to roads, but also to smaller streets.
Since roads are normally not safe to play.Also it could be the case I am in my own private property and I can't play because the nodes just move far away.
Also in Italy in urban areas it is very very difficult to have private properties bigger than the current memory node areas, so at least for my local experience I don't see the point: I honestly never faced the case I could not complete an amity hunt because of a private property.
Maybe in other countries there is a different situation, but anyway, with five nodes available, two/three of them moving farther away does not change the point, I just go to the most convenient one, despite it is a mover or a static one.
If I am in a dangerous area, I don't play Orna, I think about my safety, so no issue as well.

[wraith zephyr]

Some places mix private property and roads. By snapping to roads, it allows ppl to access it. Since public road is accessible to everyone.
As long as the map data have it, nodes will snap to roads/small roads/trails.

There is cases where most/all nodes are in places they cannot access. Not only private property. Eg, mountains with no roads/trails.

Again, it's a global game with different country with different issues.

I prefer this, because I have few roads around me. If it is random, it will be at mountains or guarded/private property.

Now at least I have few nodes accessible. Before that, I have none.

[next furnace]

I will test what is happening again.
I stopped memory hunting because the game chosed bigger roads, while I have accessible streets much closer.
Anyway most of my points are still there.

[wraith zephyr]

That's based on what Odie mention, as long as u zoom in and see roads on the map, they have chance to snap on it.

[alpine vortex]

I am still in the same boat as you. Fixes for new people should not completely break the way it worked for the community that has been doing this for years.

The complete lack of reproduceable results just makes me want the old system back. Make DM like summon scrolls, with public (old) / private (new).

Snapping to roads only benefits people who don't use discord or hunt in parties. I see absolutely no advantage to the current community who hunts and shares dm.

[next furnace]

Also: with snapping we have the risk of couchable nodes moving far away (if I didn't miss anything), which makes no sense at all

[wraith zephyr]

Which is what happen to @alpine vortex

[opaque talon]

I get what you're saying but the changes for me as a rural player have been phenomenal, same as Seowqj. Previously there was no point in me doing memory hunts. I'd get maybe 1 or 2 steps done before it required me to go trespass into a neighbour's property. So I didn't bother doing them, why waste time playing that part of the game when it was completely inaccessible?

In three years of playing, I'd just managed to get to seers guild level 10. In the last week, I've pushed that to level 20 as I can now semi reliably complete hunts. Same for the local players in my party that I enjoy playing alongside. So your comment about the changes only benefitting people who don't use discord or hunt in parties isn't objectively true

[alpine vortex]

If i had to guess though, you mostly memory hunt solo and dont do parties

is that a fair guess?

In a party/community you could have been doing hunts with couchable hours that dont really depend on rural/urban. The vast majority of people i see struggling with memory hunts are people who dont know the hidden mechanics, and dont hunt in parties.

I am not saying get rid of the new system, just make it for solo hunters, or a switch on the DM itself like summoning scrolls. By all means let rural solo players finish their hunts, but please dont kill the ability to memory hunt in parties because now we have no way of telling if anything is couchable.

[wraith zephyr]

Which is the majority of the player base I presume.

[alpine vortex]

Im not aruging that the vast majority dont use discord or hunt in parties.

But why punish the existing community

it would be like adding a cool down to BOF so you can only use 1 code a day to join...the pvp community with tournments would die

yes they could still do it, but at a vastly lower rate

again the vast majority of players arent using codes in BoF, so it wouldnt affect them, but the community that does use it would be decimated

[wraith zephyr]

That's the balance odie need to find.

[opaque talon]

I agree with that. There needs to be a balance between supporting the current community hunts and encouraging new players.

And you'd be right on the solo hunt comment, but there's no reason that couldn't change now that I've had a chance to properly engage with the system.

As for knowing about hidden mechanics, I mean Odie just dropped a knowledge bomb about the answers mattering to what the first bonus on amity would be. Seems there's more to learn for all of us

[indigo urchin]

Oh I just found this thread

Take my pressure cooker analogy and put it here

[steep pilot]

I think it completely overblows what the changes were

The changes weakened amity parties, yes. But they are not catastrophic and amity parties will continue to function just fine.

I think removing the expectation that everything is going to be couchable is much better for the game overall. Distorted Mnemonics solve the issue with moving legendary hunts (in that they can suck if you get unlucky) by taking luck out of the equation.

And Loomstones remove one of the reasons people might "need" to hunt for an ornate: the ornate having better maluses.

[wraith zephyr]

Now your walking guarantee legendary

[indigo urchin]

It was a very specific analogy to a comment. Not to the whole situation. My conclusion to the big picture is not catastrophic like imagining a pressure cooker exploding

He said "but water doesn't mess with couchable status anymore"😀
And it's like yeah but ...

[alpine vortex]

I disagree with you knight. I don't think memory parties will continue as usual. I would wager a guess that the amount of hunting and sharing goes down, and that the number of good amities found is down as well.

The amount of people who can no longer scout at all due to roads....means a lot less mapping will be done

And the amount of people who only scouted if they knew it was couchable

[queen coyote]

I just don't see how memories only snapping to bigger roads and highways that you can't even walk on, instead of all roads including sidewalks and walking trails, is encouraging to newer players.

Where was the outrage from newer players that they couldn't play while they were hiking?

[lone hedge]

Good news is we're never above continuing to update and change!
Fwiw, from my perspective - having more couchability shouldn't be the thing to aim for. Tis a GPS feature, in a GPS game.

[alpine vortex]

It's not about more or less couchables it's about reproduceable results.

[steep pilot]

For the first year at least that amity parties existed, people regularly hunted non-couchables. It's only more recently that many people have become allergic to hunting while walking.

Maybe I'm just nostalgic for something that's not going to come back, but people will still want good amities so they're going to need to re-learn how to walk for them.

[alpine vortex]

Again it's not about couchable vs walking(and I would argue memory hunts still don't favor walking....big roads are dangerous....and 150m per step is too high). It's the fact we have no way of knowing other than check everything and you might find the same node that was couchable for da kat type system

[queen coyote]

If the goal is to make people walk, why do memories only snap to big roads and not smaller pathways? I feel like there has been no answer to this.

Honestly the new system is pushing people to play while they are driving, which is dangerous. If you want people to walk, the memories need to snap to ALL roads, not just the nearby highways

[steep pilot]

They do snap to smaller pathways

Per Odie they should snap to any public road or path

[queen coyote]

Then I'll eat my words! As of yesterday everything was still snapping to the bigger roads for me, but I'll explore more today

[steep pilot]

In the testing I've done locally, that's been true. They've snapped to anything (including a service road in a power plant 😐 )

[wraith zephyr]

It includes all road.

[steep pilot]

Snapping to only "public" has been the questionable bit, but I blame OSM data for that more than I blame Odie

[wraith zephyr]

A power plant or nuclear plant?

[indigo urchin]

Orna is based on a map
Odie doesn't map the world himself, if the layouts are not taking into account your irl big streets and small streets then it's not a change odie can do

[steep pilot]

A nuclear plant would be a type of power plant, but in my case it just burns woodchips 😆

[wraith zephyr]

Oh ya hahahaha

[lone hedge]

I think amity sharing is great, and it serves a purpose well: help people find the bonuses they seek, without heavy malus downside, while also giving opportunity for better quality on that roll!
To me from my read, that can be tackled a few ways:

• Increase the rates that bonuses appear to their tied answers (categories) - mentioned by Odie here: #1499825630231920771 message
• Give ways to reroll maluses
• Give ways to target high qualities easier
• Make the hunts actually completable for most players (contentious currently, new system should allow more players to complete hunts)

We've got to be crystal clear on our goals so it's easiest to tackle. What's missing from this list? What's not identified as a bonus of party hunting that isn't tacklable in this new system?

[steep pilot]

A "quick win"-ish that Odie has been iffy on would be making some visual differentiation between the 3 arcanists that snap to roads and the 2 arcanists that do not.

[indigo urchin]

What if roll back

[wraith zephyr]

Don't u.....

[lone hedge]

I'm curious if a hue shift for all 5 nodes would be a good idea

[wraith zephyr]

That works too.

[alpine vortex]

The color shift could 100% help with the reproduceable issue

[steep pilot]

(I showed Dangy that the idea was Trex's in the ORN chat, to be clear. It's not my idea)

[alpine vortex]

If I know I only used blue (static) mini games and final witch...it means everyone should get it as well

[steep pilot]

Dangy and I just had the same convo two places at once, basically. And said the same things each place 😆

[lone hedge]

I also left the same comment on your youtube channel, and DMs

https://klipy.com/gifs/the-librarian-college-shorts-2--k01KR3QCVVVME7KQVA6474H02T0

[alpine vortex]

You could even make the dynamic ones red and shaky to look unstable

[steep pilot]

Good, DMs are what this discussion is about

[indigo urchin]

Wait he's cooking

[lone hedge]

I think if Odie wasn't eager on putting too much info in front of the player, just simply applying a hue shift to them would fix the concern while not confusing newbies too much.

Completely unsure if it's even possible to achieve it, but I'm keen to find out

[steep pilot]

If Covyn isn't able to, then I could copy the pinkish hue from Apollyon Y to the arcanist-looking node and send you the sprite

[alpine vortex]

Based on what we've figured out as a community I would bet even non discord people could figure it out.....wow that's odd every time my nodes are red and shaky I can't share them... o well must be a coincidence

[steep pilot]

IMO red and shaky is too much

[craggy whale]

I'd wager most players don't know amities are shareable

[alpine vortex]

They must be unstable!

[steep pilot]

We only know amities are sharable because of extremely thorough testing and a hint from Odie

[alpine vortex]

They don't, and they don't know water affects it, or that they repeat

[steep pilot]

Shabbash and I spent 3 months leading a research team on amities to get where we are 😅

[alpine vortex]

The list of things non discord people don't know about memories is huge

And then the community finds out new things too after years of teating

[indigo urchin]

About orna in general

[alpine vortex]

Can you share your towers da kat?!

[indigo urchin]

Ofcs 😀

Here they are

So pretty and tall(some)

[steep pilot]

Today I learned Apollyon Y is actually slightly transparent

[alpine vortex]

I am 100% on board with the change to increase how question affect reward. Even knowing it will shift the seeds again.

If I had to guess it's currently based on the name (eg thwack). But due to the current number of names we have >40 names and only 31 question, so the difference between 1/40 vs 3/40 is very small and why it went so long without notice.

If the effect was stronger people could actually hunt desired amity

[steep pilot]

I release this artwork under the Free Art License for use including, but not limited to, Northern Forge Studios.

(Not that that would matter anyway I think because it's a derivative of protected art owned by Northern Forge Studios)

[alpine vortex]

You people and your fancy pixels

[craggy whale]

(Also cause of Section 10 of the Terms of Use)

[steep pilot]

Ah perfect, I wasn't aware that was already covered

[craggy whale]

-# sorta? idk. I could see it applying, but I could see it not applying

[lone hedge]

I think it's ok to use art from the game. People just seem to have more access to it than me somehow 😅

[next furnace]

How could you go in neighbours' properties with couchable amities? 🤔

[odd grove]

I hope these are still being tweaked. None of these are couchable. And, all snap to the same roads. I am in a resented neighborhood with more options than solely those roads. And yes - they are mapped on OSM.

I did have one yesterday that was couchable for me. I shared with the rest of my Kingdom to see if it was for them. And we went 0-5 for them

[wraith zephyr]

Nont couch able based on what he said.

[wraith zephyr]

Yup that's the right system. After the update.

There's possibility that it's cochie for u, but not fr others.

But the amity is still in one of them with the same question and answers.

[alpine vortex]

What tiley is trying to say is that sharing amity is much much harder in the new system. Again why punish the existing community type thing.

[odd grove]

The update changed amity hunting from a social, community activity into a solo activity.

[wraith zephyr]

Is it?

[alpine vortex]

With how the dynamic nodes move. Let's say I want to hunt it with Tilley. I join his pt....now I have to walk....no biggie....but now since it's dynamic. Every time I walk to finish it the final node I need has moved to a new place

[craggy whale]

Its not a punishment though.

[alpine vortex]

With duplicate questions, and moving nodes. It sure feels like a punishment

What if I waste a distorted DM and it's the wrong node

[wraith zephyr]

I thought the nodes stop moving once it's out on the players map?

[wraith zephyr]

Perspective matters. But he is not wrong though.

[pseudo topaz]

What tilley didn't mention, he had 10 non couchables before this in a row.

As things stands some people are having it decent, most others are royally screwed

[steep pilot]

Another possible solution could be removing the ability for the same question to show up more than once in a single hour. I don't know how much work that is for Odie on the backend

[wraith zephyr]

That should be ok?

But that means u need more question?

[alpine vortex]

Here my map. Let's say red line is start of hunt 1....I get to step 4 and I answer #1....but it's the wrong node/question....now I do it again....walking in a new path.... I get to the last step and 3 of the nodes have shifted to new roads and all have the same question. Now I have another 1/3 guess

[odd grove]

I am fairly new to playing Orna and the amity community has immensely helped my progression. The ability to join a party for a specific amity is key. Gathering those vital amities (memory hunting, VD, crit, acc, etc.) early to progress will be hindered with this update.

[odd grove]

Very much needed either way, yes

[wanton topaz]

My 2 cents on color changing; new players will absolutely click on the different color because it feels like a shiny/different/rare thing

[wraith zephyr]

Wait the shift while still in the same hour? That's weird.

[odd grove]

Pop a DM and confirm. He’s right

[alpine vortex]

The dynamic nodes shift based on your location at the time you finish step 3

They will be the same question/ rewards but they will move around

It's actually how memory hunting has always worked

[next furnace]

Basically:

• if a node is couchable -> no need to move
• if a node is not couchable and there is a street closer to the player than the node move to the closer street
• if there is no street closer to the player, there is still no reason to move.
• if the node shifts, please make it of different colour

minigame or witch should be handles in the same way

Given the above, everyone will be fine, I guess

[alpine vortex]

The only argument is on point 3....if there is no street close but the spawn would be un reachable. Which I don't think they can tell based on osm maps

[opaque talon]

Majority of the amities were non-couchable, which meant I had to go trespass if I wanted to walk and find them. The couchable ones were doable without go into someone else's place, but it was a gamble that every stage was couchable

[opaque talon]

I'd disagree somewhat with how much progress would be hindered. I've still managed to get those amities based on pure pot luck as a rural player. Might not be the god tier ones some people have got, but it didn't stop me from reaching T11 nor finding one of each of those types you mention.

[spring orchid]

I really think we need to stop looking at it like this, it just brings hostility to the conversation

I love the amity hunting community, it’s really cool to see players care about something so much to reverse engineer it to that degree. The changes here would have been much different if there was no intent to preserve a lot of what is special about that community

That said, we shouldn’t be afraid of improving the game because the community exists - that’s a hostage situation that’s hard to get out of

[wraith zephyr]

It's just a thought of his. I mean that's how the community responded.

He is actually ok with it.

[spring orchid]

I’ve seen it from a few players, not trying to single anyone out (probably should have ping’d off that reply)

[wanton topaz]

Yeah but it's MY hostage

[wraith zephyr]

MY = My country short form.

[alpine vortex]

I'm not against improving the game. I'm just really sad that the existing changes really only benefit people who didn't hunt in parties.

Everyone complaining is someone who hunted in parties and can no longer do that. These are people I know who spend 100s of DM a week and now they can't use 90%.

[next furnace]

#3 Yes but since I am in between, it means it is not unreachable

[lone hedge]

We've got some good notes to work with, just want the conversations working productively.
Best to take the approach of "this is where we are, these are the gaps to fill".

The intent from our end is absolutely never to make your guys lives harder I promise :)

[odd grove]

My guy - why is trespassing a thing you have to do to complete these? 😅

[next furnace]

I fully agree.
The advertisement about memory hunting changes talked about easier hunts, I think the observations I put are just common sense ones in that direction 😉

[odd grove]

With less party hunting, finding an amity will be more RNG based than it already is. And with way less couchable, less amities to be found. If that’s the goal of this update, so be it

[lone hedge]

I think "easier" is the subjective feeling for some who were completely used to a less intuitive system

For someone who has never hunted before, this new way makes way more sense for sure

[opaque talon]

Perks of living in the countryside on a farm. If the node isn't in your field, then you need to hop a fence and hope the neighbours aren't out with their own livestock or in their garden. Sometimes you'd get lucky and it's in some woodland with a public footpath close enough to say you'd got lost.

[wraith zephyr]

Are you sure?

It's mental!

[wraith zephyr]

It just means they can't access thya area without getting 💥

[opaque talon]

https://tenor.com/view/sea-mine-hot-fuzz-simon-pegg-nick-frost-david-bradley-gif-21902547

[odd grove]

And that is definitely not okay. As I asked earlier: why should trespassing be a requirement to complete these?

[lone hedge]

@wraith zephyr Heya I know you're having fun, and I appreciate fun but you've pinged me a few times now for what seems like meme posts. Let's please keep the thread on task so it's easy for Devs to parse

[wraith zephyr]

It's wasn't, it's to show that the place is not accessible.

For me, it's a guarded community. I can't go in, I don't have to trespass.

Another is mountain with no roads.

[opaque talon]

Not quite, I'm on the other side of teh Atlantic in the deepest, darkest depths of of rural England (the OG, not the New one).

[lone hedge]

Just cleaning up posts, I'm trying to keep this on task cause I'm working on stuffs with Odie for you guys ;)

Let's not deviate into off topic please

[glass gazelle]

I am fine with dynamic nodes if it means making amity hunting more accessible for players.

But goodness sake, can NF implement some form of labeling or different questions for the FINAL witch node?

At the current state, it makes amity sharing downright confusing among the community, and I might even say detrimental to the wider amity community.

[lone hedge]

We working on something

Scroll up to my earlier posts for a hint/spoiler 👀

[inland laurel]

Every issue we have discussed comes back to repeatability in parties and couchable opportunities.
In general, NOBODY wants to waste a Mnemonic and not be able to complete it.
Rural or City.
Party or Solo.

You could completely abandon the "snap to road" concept if you simply made at least one memory and one hut "couchable per step per hour.
This is already done on the first step every time every hour.
That first memory is always right on top of the player.
Just do that for one memory and one hut in each step.

BENEFITS:

• No more wasted Mnemonics.
• Every player has a path to couchably complete at least one hut without trespassing (solves the rural issue)
• Repeatability is left exactly the same (solves the amity hunting party issue)
• Bedridden, non-mobile players aren't excluded from this content.
• Bad weather or bad neighborhoods no longer prevent players from participating in this content.

If players want more than a single hut choice, then they'd have to move around.
I don't see a downside to this suggestion.

Right now, you aren't encouraging players to walk around and get exercise with this arrangement.
If they want to walk around, they do.
If they won't or can't, they simply don't participate or they drive around in a car.

I say let everyone participate every hour in this limited way.

[humble charm]

Question/Suggestion: is there any way we could maybe use mnemonics from the main screen item menu?

[lone hedge]

You can customise the quick use items list, and can use DMs no?

[alpine vortex]

?

You already can use it from either item screen

[inland laurel]

You can... you can edit your choices with a tiny button in the upper right corner of the item screen.
Not many people know about that little EDIT button.

[humble charm]

I've never seen that, let me go dig through the menus

[odd grove]

I am curious of the current breakdown of completed hunts on couchable v non-couchable hours. I would assume it’s 90/10. Would it be better gameplay for the player base to move away from non-couchable DMs?

[solemn lion]

Memory hunting was the only close alternative to endless, this is a pretty big nerf to that imho.
Amity sharing parties no longer work, many many more DMs wasted due to hunts not being couchable, even within the same hour/node.
Big sad tbh

[humble charm]

Got it, never noticed the edit button

[alpine vortex]

I will now pray for your soul....all those lost hours digging in menus

[inland laurel]

Before the recent "snap to road" changes, couchable hours comprised about 25-35% of the 24 hours in a cycle.
Now, there's no way to tell.

[spring orchid]

your next hunt is going to be more colourful

[alpine vortex]

There might be now....

[wraith zephyr]

More for me in 16 hours, it feels like 50%.

[spring orchid]

i've done 2 hunts this morning, both couchable.

so there number is absolutely 100%, without question

[humble charm]

My soul is a lost cause at this point, a lifetime of MUCKS, MUDS, and MMOs saw to it that its beyond saving

[alpine vortex]

It depends so much in location.

[odd grove]

Sorry, was asking for the data on completed DMs. The breakdown between players who complete a couchable node v non-couchable

[alpine vortex]

Omg muds.....I'm so old

[solemn lion]

Give us an option to abandon memory hunts so we can at least get rid of the ones we can’t reach

[wraith zephyr]

Your location definitely sucks.

[odd grove]

Each hour now has a guaranteed couchable amity?

[wraith zephyr]

Just start a new one?

[solemn lion]

You mean waste another dm on another hunt that probably isn’t couchable?

[wraith zephyr]

Odie is saying, sample not big enough.

[inland laurel]

I'm not positive, but I think Odie was being sarcastic in that statistics are subjective and based on small sample sizes.
I was referring to the number of couchable hours we typically see in the three Orna Legends parties over a sample size of months.

[wraith zephyr]

Start a new one when u are ready? Or someone invite you to a new party? Or a new hour?

It replaces the old one.

[lone hedge]

Odie made a joke is all haha

Memory Hunts are not guaranteed coachable, we wouldn't want to make them that way

[inland laurel]

Why wouldn't you want to make them that way?
Not all of them... just one per hour.

[wraith zephyr]

Ppl are so used to cochie.

[odd grove]

I’m with this guy. Make them couchable

[solemn lion]

Then I have to look at the icons for the next hour with no way to turn them off

[odd grove]

At least one/hour

[lone hedge]

To quote myself earlier: tis a GPS feature in a GPS game

[wraith zephyr]

There's filter on the right side of the bottom screen.

[alpine vortex]

It's nice for the final hunt. Can it be done for for the mini games too?

I'll have to test to see if the same color is the static vs dynamic

[lone hedge]

The final node is the only impactful one, so should be good with that

Just test in a party and see if colours hold is my advice, let's give Odie data early

[alpine vortex]

Knowing if you can get to the final node without trinkets matters....but we'll test it

[wraith zephyr]

I have cochie nodes this hour.

Anyone wanna test.

[steep pilot]

Final node is more important though, for sure

The important thing here is just if the colors for the two "static" nodes are the same every hunt

I like the additional of 5 different colors overall though too. That's an awesome way to differenciate between nodes as you walk around. Ie, you know you already hunted blue so you don't need to check the question or not.

[inland laurel]

My suggestion would still be a GPS feature in a GPS game.
If you wanted more than the four or five choices in a single hut, you'd possibly need to move.
But it would fix the rural problem, it would fix the party variability problem, it would allow you to participate during hours when it isn't possible to move around, it would allow the bedridden/non-mobile to participate in a limited way... and it would do so with a much simpler solution than "snap to roads".

[wraith zephyr]

Same question have different colour.

[steep pilot]

Exactly

[steep pilot]

If you wanted more than the four or five choices in a single hut, you'd possibly need to move.

No, you'd just need to delete and remake the party

[solemn lion]

It’s a fairly difficult item to farm, and the only alternative to endless for orns farming, not wasting them would be cool

[inland laurel]

On a different subject...
I do like the colors on the huts. It would make party hunts easier to describe and solo hunts easier to repeat.

[wraith zephyr]

There's 3 days of patching I think i wasted 50-80 each day....

Now we just need to find which questions/answer give 3 times chance for specific amity......

[next furnace]

we already have that data, I guess

[wraith zephyr]

I guess, but no one notice for 4 years, it was an intuition for me as a come back player.

[steep pilot]

Yes, it was intuition when the entire system released and then we tracked with data and saw no pattern. Because it's a really, really small increase lol

[alpine vortex]

Because 1/40 vs 3/40 is really small. If Odie wanted to boost it to 10-20x....or even ONLY showing up on that 1 question we would notice a lot easier. It's a game of balance.

[next furnace]

also because you have 5 huts x4/5 questions where a certain amity can still pop-up

[wraith zephyr]

Question.
Final node haven't answer.
Hour changes. Do I get the previous hour amity or the current amity?

If I answer the question from prevoius hour.

[wanton topaz]

Not the previous hour amity, it will be different

[inland laurel]

I believe we proved it was when the huts are spawned.
If the huts spawn in the previous hour and you open them in the current hour, you get the previous hour's amity.

[wraith zephyr]

Spawn at previous hour.

[wanton topaz]

Nah the amities change when hour rolls over even if the huts have spawned

[next furnace]

Indeed, given that in this hour the question for previous hour is there, so something not checked will happen

[inland laurel]

I don't believe that is correct.

[steep pilot]

It's both

Amities take into consideration both the hour the nodes spawned and the hour you answered

If you spawn them at UTC 9 and answer at UTC 10, then in order to get that same amity you once again have to spawn them at 9 and answer at 10

[wanton topaz]

That amity couldn't be found in any normally spawned node from hour 10?

[steep pilot]

Right, it could not

[wanton topaz]

Then I misunderstood your answer when I asked this question a year ago 😂

[inland laurel]

I thought if you spawned the huts during 9UTC and opened them after 10UTC, you'd still get the amities that were locked in for 9UTC.
You don't get some oddball amity that was neither, do you?

[wraith zephyr]

Actually......

[steep pilot]

You do, we've tested this thoroughly. There was even an unfortunate amity once shared in OL's Amity Sharing channel where people needed start the hunt one hour and finish in another 😆

[wraith zephyr]

I just tested it accidentally.

[steep pilot]

Important suggestion for Odie/Dangy:

Would it be possible for the 'static' nodes that don't snap to roads to always be the same colors?

Currently they are not.

[modest garnet]

I live in a place where it's miserably cold out 1/3 of the year, meh and barely worth going out for 1/3 and nice for the remaining 1/3. Making this system less couchable means I will not be interacting with it the majority of my playtime.

[wraith zephyr]

I tested it @wanton topaz , I got an amity from the current hour.

And it's from one of the node from different question.

[modest garnet]

Knight I know you are a "this is gps content" guy, but not everyone gets to have that point of view.

[wraith zephyr]

Might be different.

[wanton topaz]

The hour hasn't changed in the last 26 minutes...

[wraith zephyr]

I did it when I ask the question hahahh

Accidentally.

[lone hedge]

As in - they aren't consistent between party members?

Or are you asking if they can always be the same colour, for every single hunt?

[next furnace]

The funny thing would be to test what happens waiting for more than one hour.
Think if you find some god amity...

[steep pilot]

Right now hour to hour they change colors. Ie, we just tested and Blue and Green were static last hour. Blue and Orange are static this hour.

It'd be helpful if, for example, it was blue and green always that were the static ones

[wraith zephyr]

I just tested it.

[lone hedge]

I can ask about it, but either way it'd still currently be shareable within the hour by highlighting the colour in the share, yeah?

I'm primarily concerned if the colours don't hold for all party members on the same hunt

[next furnace]

If the colour is linked to the question, then it is not fair having always the same colours not moving.
(edit) given the new info about amity frequency connected to questions

[steep pilot]

The colors overall are still a huge improvement and are great though, don't want to sound unappreciative

They do hold for all party members

That's fine

We tested with 4 people in one party over in OL

[wraith zephyr]

Not link, I have two colours for same questions.

[wanton topaz]

Yes, colors seem like a huge improvement across the board. Now we need to add little unique shapes to each color for colorblind accessibility

[solemn lion]

Just run the same min-maxed endless builds as everyone else and do mind numbing endless runs for orns instead 🙃

[wanton topaz]

(Mostly joking)

[orchid oracle]

Hi Dangy or Odie if you're lurking - if the goal of snapping to a road is to prevent trespassing, what if we don't just snap every node to a road?

If the node were originally to spawn within 250m of you, you won't have to trespass to reach it at all. In this case maybe we could try to only snap to the nearest road if a node were to already spawn over 250m away?

[wraith zephyr]

But the amity I got came from one of current hour nodes amity.

[next furnace]

this is one of the points I wrote a few hours ago

[orchid oracle]

I didn't see that but I definitely agree with you 🫡

[orchid oracle]

I think this still reinforces the idea of memory hunting being a gps feature. If nothing were to spawn within 250m anyway, we'd have the same situation - snap to the nearest road, and walk if it's still out of reach.

I think it's a bit counterintuitive if a node were to spawn within 250m (being reachable already), but snaps to a road outside of that range

[next furnace]

Question for the ones who had the chance to test it, now the final nodes have colours, but is there a way to know if also the three questions before are consistently couchable or not?

[alpine vortex]

Still no way to know about the mini games

But it does look like blue and red (orange) are the 2 static. So if you find a blue amity, everyone who gets to the final witch will have blue as couchable....

Which is why I was asking if mini games could have the same color....if you only used blue and red to get there. It should be couchable for everyone

[steep pilot]

Is that the case again this hour? When we tested at first it was blue and green

[uncut ravine]

Are the colors for reference or do they refer to classes?

[sweet mesa]

nothing to do with class, just to help players reference

[alpine vortex]

Checked multiple parties over 3 hours... Looks like blue and red

So this hour in river2.... Would have 2 couchable nodes IF you can do the mini games

[indigo urchin]

Color coded weakly summary sounds like an amazing concept

[alpine vortex]

Team 🍊 not 🍒

[indigo urchin]

But I love 🍒😔

[sonic karma]

team mountain dew, coming through here

[modest garnet]

It's not about orns, I only have 2 properly powerful amities. One I found on my own by sheer luck, another was community shared.

I am far more limited by my limited library of powerful amities than I am by orns or materials.

If couchability is going to take a hit then this system is just fundamentally worse for me.

[solemn lion]

Same, but for both reasons tbh

[alpine vortex]

Mathematically, there are just going to be way less guaranteed couchable.

Before you had 5 chances per mini game. Now you only have 2 possible ways to guarantee it at each step.

One less step helps. But it's still a 60% reduction at steps 2 3 4

It's roughly 20% chance for 1 couchable node per hour in the old system...vs the new system having 5% chance .

That assumes you are like me and can only couch it at all in the new system if it's a static node.

The colors help for letting people know if they will for sure be able to reach it.

[modest garnet]

As much as the progress in this topic is cool, the current system is just nicely telling people who relied on couchable setups to interact with memory hunting that they don't get to hunt memories. 🤷

[wraith zephyr]

As they say, amity is not meant for couch.

[modest garnet]

I appreciate that the acquisition of powerful amities has been made harder for no good reason.

The whole reason memory hunting relied on couchability, scouting and community sharing was because it was absurdly improbable to find useful amities at legendary rarity on your own.

Improving the walking portion at the expense of the couch portion creates an inferior system. Yes you will be able to walk more, no you will not get better amities out of it consistently.

The new distorted mnemonic gives a guaranteed legendary amity, and that is nice... But I already know 90%+ of those amities will be thrown in the trash.

[lone hedge]

Heya Drel - mind editing your post and taking out the profanity. Cheers

Get the frustration, but let's keep it a bit more PG in language

[modest garnet]

Aye, changed.

The malus editing with loom stones takes away a huge chunk of the negatives for this system and is a step in the right direction... But you still need to find powerful bonuses on amities.

If the intent is such that there will be some mechanic for doing a similar thing with bonuses, or ranking them up... Then the fundamental issues I am complaining about will vanish. Until then, we have taken 2 steps forward and 5 back.

[lone hedge]

This is a post I made earlier.
I think we should start thinking about ways to achieve the outcome you guys seek, without that answer being making memory hunts couchable, will forward the post now:

#1499825630231920771 message

I think amity sharing is great, and it serves a purpose well: help people find the bonuses they seek, without heavy malus downside, while also giving opportunity for better quality on that roll!
To me from my read, that can be tackled a few ways:

• Increase the rates that bonuses appear to their tied answers (categories) - mentioned by Odie here: #1499825630231920771 message
• Give ways to reroll maluses
• Give ways to target high qualities easier
• Make the hunts actually completable for most players (contentious currently, new system should allow more players to complete hunts)

We've got to be crystal clear on our goals so it's easiest to tackle. What's missing from this list? What's not identified as a bonus of party hunting that isn't tacklable in this new system?

[sonic karma]

I love the increased rates per answer honestly lol

Even, and I hate to say it, if it messed with seeds that we've previously scouted - it becomes way more intuitive

we've only just started rebuilding from the last major seed update, so while we would lose more data, at least it we be at the benefit of the entire community as a whole (just like when we previously added more bonuses)

idk what amount it would have to be increased to make it worth it, however. Similar to my earlier comparison to sphinx tail. Are we looking at a 1/400 chance to get a desirable amity being changed to a 3/400 per answer and then updated to 5/400? Or are we talking about 3/400 -> 1/20?

That chance is a mystery and it can remain that way

[modest garnet]

I saw that post earlier Dangy, I'll describe my complaint as this:

• the goal for amities should be an improvement on targeting high quality amities from the previous system.
• the new system (or at least the event) adds more chances for legendary amities, but destroys consistency. This creates a net negative chance by lowering chances to share or quickly scout in areas with a crappy climate.
• If lowering reliance on couchability is the goal, then obtaining powerful amities must become more consistent outside of memory hunting.

[sweet mesa]

Everything from before is already messed up afaik

[lone hedge]

I've seen a few "if X is the goal" posts, that don't seem to align with any goals that I've heard.
I was unwell the last couple of days, so will parse Odie's comments to see if he's said those were the goals, but my understanding is that this change was simply to address common feedback from earlier game users who struggled with amity hunts.

The older system was unintuitive, and the randomness led folks on chases they didn't understand the rhyme or reason to. It was a disengagement point (from the game) for a lot of folks.

Now they'll more likely be able to navigate toward the memory nodes

[sonic karma]

Theoretically that would be the trade off then

Losing couchability but gaining access to have decent odds at getting a desireable amity would be considered a fair trade?

But i can only speak for myself and not others, of course

Couchability is maybe the wrong term I guess

[lone hedge]

On this point:

the goal for amities should be an improvement on targeting high quality amities from the previous system
I don't believe that was a stated goal during this change, but the implementation of a cool new item that does allow targetting higher qualities was added this month in Distorted Mnemonics

[modest garnet]

I will say that making powerful amities more available is what I think the goal should be.

[sonic karma]

I think the goal is to make it way more accessible to earlier game people, originally.

[lone hedge]

Yes, this part of my message:

my understanding is that this change was simply to address common feedback from earlier game users who struggled with amity hunts.

The older system was unintuitive, and the randomness led folks on chases they didn't understand the rhyme or reason to. It was a disengagement point (from the game) for a lot of folks.

Now they'll more likely be able to navigate toward the memory nodes

That's all we were going after here

[sonic karma]

But you can splat two birds with one snowball if you increase the targeted answers

Earlier gamers feel it more intuitive, and later gamers have a way to target specific amities

[modest garnet]

Distorted mnemonics seem nice, and I will definitely be trying some now that I am getting actual spring weather.

However, I also understand that 90%+ of those legendary amities will go straight into the trash. Getting a legendary amity at will is almost not worth it because functionally useful amities are a statistical nightmare to obtain.

[lone hedge]

It's interesting, because personally (and Covyn falls in this camp too) I've found the majority of my useful amities solo or in person with a friend

I've taken part in only maybe 2? of the party share hunts on OL

[modest garnet]

My only 2 good ones were a Towerfall amity when I was ridiculously sick in bed and a Crit damage/ward start turns amity I got shared.

[sonic karma]

I'm the opposite, 99% of the amities i've found in the wild are trash, and the ones I use for my builds come from search parties 😛

[lone hedge]

I enjoy getting them myself, it's really exciting and rewarding finally getting it.
Reminds me of early days of Orna waiting 6+ months for an event item, the best feel finally getting it

[sonic karma]

I did find a decent one at the very beginning of this rework, but I think it's gone now lol

[sonic karma]

I do not disagree, finding a gem of an amity in the wild feels incredibly rewarding

[wanton topaz]

And many of us enjoy the crowdsourcing/community aspect of hunting amities and sharing with others

[lone hedge]

If you collect a bunch of DMs, and use them every hour for a day, it'd seem really rare to not at least come across one useful amity.
I enjoy that process greatly

[sonic karma]

but the flip side to that, with how crucial amities are to soooo many builds, is that it feels incredibly discouraging when you dont find them

[lone hedge]

I get it, and love that. I think the representation of it being the only way is why I talk about my route. It's not the only way

[modest garnet]

I agree finding stuff on your own feels way better, it's just that I've only had it happen once in several years. I'd like to actually try catching up to players who have properly powerful amities, and it is looking less likely now.

(and that one time was a couchable)

[lone hedge]

So in essence what I'm getting at here:
We're a little stuck on couchable amity sharing being the only option.
I just want us to try spending some energy thinking of a world where there's an alternate that hits well

Ideally, keeping GPS features as GPS as possible is a good aim

[sonic karma]

Likely search parties will take a hit if we lose some couchability, that would be expected. But if the amities are still locked to the parties, we can still search and share our results

Targeted answers / rewards would fill a gap and help alleviate a lot of woes, in my opinion

[wanton topaz]

An alternate to what exactly - amity sharing in general, or non-couchable hunts

[lone hedge]

Covered a couple of times, will link you to my post as I did earlier for folks:

#1499825630231920771 message

[modest garnet]

Like I said above, we would need a way to realistically obtain functionally useful legendary amities outside of couchable memory hunts.

It's why I was so stoked when I saw that amity upgrade feature earlier, then was utterly let down when I found out it was a dev tool.

[craggy whale]

the heavily shared builds*

You use what you can get at first. and there's some very functional amities that aren't Crit and Dragon Damage.

[lone hedge]

That point is also covered in my post :)

[spring orchid]

i think i see two paths forward at this point:

1. keep hunts is, leaning on GPS play but with a chance of couch-ability, but take away a lot of the less desirable bonuses - maybe even weight bonuses for current class

2. set a couch-ability target (say, 20%), then tweak the algorithm until that target is met (would use simulation of 1m+ hunts to prove it's met)

[sonic karma]

of course, there's always something that can fill a void

Option 1 would be crazy to see fleshed out

Option 2 feels like it would maintain current status quo up until the initial memory rework

[modest garnet]

Weighting bonuses for current class will likely be an issue, there will be complaints since hunting as BeoA for follower memory bonus gets more rewards.

[sonic karma]

There's your trade off, if you're hunting specifically for mats/orns/gexp, then you'll lose chances to find great amities

if you're hunting for great amities, you'll lose out on extra mats/orns/gexp

whatever the chance may be

[modest garnet]

That is true, I just don't want to see the "herp derp Beo favorite class" that it will definitely bring.

[sonic karma]

Could be a good poll;

More desirable amities

or

More concrete couchability

[modest garnet]

Honestly thinking about Odie's second option, that is almost certainly the right way to start this out; maybe as future systems drop and memory hunts are no longer the only good way to get powerful amities it can be scaled back?

[modest garnet]

I'm all for the former, but losing the latter will permanently disadvantage everyone who hasn't farmed hundreds of thousands of mats through memory hunting.

[sonic karma]

I dont think we're losing all couchability though, we'd still have to cycle through parties and such to find a couchable amity on the hour if that's what we're chasing.

but idk

[modest garnet]

I mean we have currently had couchability become much less consistent is all.

I'll borrow trex's number a bit: if couchability is now 1/4 as likely, then your memory hunt boost items are now that much less effective.

[alpine vortex]

Memory hunt boost and shareable couchable rates aren't the same though. You may still find a couchable node 20% of the time, it just means you will only be able to share 1/5th of those with any kinda success rate

I'm glad others are chiming in and it doesn't feel like just me fighting this fight I'll let others continue 🙏

[sonic karma]

It takes a village

[heady lantern]

I like the idea of at least a few are always couchable. Water has always been my downfall. I wish I didn't live near a lake for orna's sake!

[alpine vortex]

Of Odie 2 options. I like option 1. Minus the weight toward current class as I don't know how that would work with sharing.

Lord knows the number of times I've found a 40% crit....with 10% less dmg to mimic lol

[modest garnet]

I needed numbers for my example, but that doesn't mean I always read

[alpine vortex]

I would rather it be easier to find better amity, and still have to walk, than easier to couch and still mostly trash

[modest garnet]

I'd like both. I'm not going for a walk when it's so cold that my eyes are watering within 15 seconds of leaving home.

My stern opposition here isn't out of laziness (though it is a small part), I'd legitimately like to use this system for more than 4 months in the year.

[wraith zephyr]

I feel kinda sad that couchability is the main focus of amity.

It wasn't the fun of finding one.

Whether through party sharing or solo.
Walking or not walking.

The new system is still shareable, just take more effort.

[inland laurel]

...or use it after dark... or use it when you're laid up... or use it in the rural areas.

[wraith zephyr]

I'm more excited with adding more amity in the future and what kind of combination would be fun.

[next furnace]

I would think that given the colours and random couchability, we now might have the chance to scout all five nodes every hour.
Meaning that someone might have to walk or move, but potential for a more complete scout

[alpine vortex]

Again you are missing the big picture. It's not just about couchable. It was the ability to share it when it was couchable and people knew in advance based on their water if it would work for them.

Saying you can still share it is a bit disingenuous. We could always share non couchable....but almost no one wanted them for reasons everyone has stated.

It might not be couchable, in fact it's more likely that it's not unless it's a blue or red witch.

I would go one further. The distance and time it takes is more akin to car, e bike, (horses), than walking

[alpine vortex]

I do like the new color system

[sonic karma]

Horses
Texas mentioned!

[alpine vortex]

I am ok with losing the ability to share as easily if it means better amity for everyone,

[craggy whale]

There's horses in more than just texas 😂

[sonic karma]

I dont believe you :3

[modest garnet]

Trex, do you have a link to a table showing all amity bonuses and maluses? The one I used to Google up doesn't work.

[sonic karma]

I can find one sec

[alpine vortex]

Orna legends spread sheet one second

[sonic karma]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j1nsFirXQA9Q26Ka1Mme24w2VRexwYWkoLIf085jkIA/edit?gid=0

[alpine vortex]

lost to Burt in a quick draw

[modest garnet]

Oh I can go look at that then. I completely forgot.

[sonic karma]

tree'd 'em

[modest garnet]

Nvm Dagda is faster on the draw

[sonic karma]

Trex was asked specifically, sorry Trex 🙁

[alpine vortex]

Yes but when you go to Europe and say your from Canada, do they ask if you ride a horse.....cause with Texas they do

[modest garnet]

Also, are the specific legendary and ornate amity rates known?

[craggy whale]

I have no idea. I'm not Canadian, nor have I been to Europe

[alpine vortex]

Anecdotally....it has always felt like the better the bonus the more rare the legendary/ ornate....but that's almost probably tied to your account specific RNG value and I have a 0 for my base luck.

[wraith zephyr]

It is about couchability. The whole amity/memory sharing community is build on that.

Like you say, ppl only wanted the couch amity.

The colour coded are for couchability too.

The complains is also about couchability.

A player ask what is it for on general. I can't really tell him it's to know whether it can be shared/couch.

[wide thistle]

I live in texas and closest road to my house is 1.5 miles away, this effects me a lot

[alpine vortex]

Can confirm, I steal kuberta settlement when he leaves the house

[wide thistle]

Guess i need to amity hunt in my truck

[alpine vortex]

He also does not ride a horse

[wide thistle]

Game warden better be weary!

[wide thistle]

Only on the weekends

But i prefer my john deer

[alpine vortex]

My wife has never ... But both my kids have. They could ride horses before bicycle

[wide thistle]

Strider ftw, my kids could bicycle by 4

[sonic karma]

Odie,

How much of an undertaking would it be to rework the amities from option 1?
Sans the class specific stuff, perhaps

[alpine vortex]

Cntrl f - advantage- delete... there go 25/163 ... Honestly most of the rest at least have niche uses some tweaks but their base idea is solid (pact DMG, double cast DMG, could both prolly go to 15% as an example)

[sonic karma]

True, the adjustment is already there to tie specific ones to specific answers it seems

[craggy whale]

I'm nervous to ask what bonuses would be considered less desirable from the wider community...

If it was just the +/– Family Dmg (maybe the Weapon Proficiency ones), I think that'd be alright.
I still think some of them are potentially nice in some circumstances (Balor Forces, Dragons) but some others are less useful (Ancients, Mimics)

[alpine vortex]

I wouldn't delete gold or orn....I'd boost them to 20% so they would be desired:-p

But yes, weapon prof, monster DMG, and dmg to monster where the default ones i think most people never want.

I'd probably get rid of apex....diety don't need it ....scum bags already do to much...grumble gumble

[spring orchid]

fwiw after some simulation across random locations, it looks like couchability rate is currently around 22%

[inland laurel]

Do you know what it was before the original patch this month?

[alpine vortex]

For me personally.

• gold, orn, exp, luck all go from 5 to 20
• Holy/dark go from 20 to 30
• Double cast chance from 5 to 10
• Double cast and pact DMG from 5 to 15
• Skills of your faction 12 to 15~20
• Let recharge amity stack

Get rid of

• Weapon prof
• DMG to monster
• DMG from monster
• Hp/mp/exp while walking (I'd be okay with these being low teir only)
• Steal mp on basic attack (again ok as low teir only)

Not sure as I have never needed

• Free cast
• Follower call
• Mana cost

[sonic karma]

does that mean option 1 might see some traction?

[inland laurel]

I love it when I actually find an Ornate Amity...
/s

[spring orchid]

no, but i can find out

[modest garnet]

I envy your ability to be even remotely positive, I'd be posting it and complaining about statistics blablabla.

[sonic karma]

sarcasm is lost over the internet lol

[inland laurel]

I added the /s...

[modest garnet]

Hey I said remotely

[sonic karma]

This led to the crash of discord, and you cannot change my mind

[indigo urchin]

Getting rid of amity bonuses would erase the Amities from pls inventory?

[wide thistle]

No it would stay, just no longer be an option

👀Looks at some of the codex unobtainium monsters like pyre

[alpine vortex]

They have done it before....if it's broken then will delete the bonus....if not they just leave it and adjust the table that says what bonus are available to spawn where.....so rest easy you keep your 5 % instrumental bonus

[indigo urchin]

I don't like the idea of 20% of hunts being couchable cuz it feels so low, but I would take it if the pool becomes better since it's diluted with unused bonuses

[worldly wraith]

Please return the memory hunt to how it has always been. 🥹

[warm junco]

Games change…we will get used to it…this same feeling happened when anguish changed.

[wraith zephyr]

That 20% was a sample taken probably from Odie jumping around the world map lol.

It might be different for players.

For me definitely not that low.

[indigo urchin]

He said millions in simulation 💀
It's 20%

[wraith zephyr]

I have good couch able nodes 5, lousy couch able nodes probably 5 too.

That itself is already around 50% in 16 hours I search.

It was way lesser before the update. I just hunt through the hour with just starting mini games.

[indigo urchin]

Do you have water ?

[wraith zephyr]

Small pond.

Now you mention it, no wonder I don't getmuch couchable in the previous system...

[indigo urchin]

it's not that you wouldn't get it
it was the couchable status was restricted to your location

now everyone lives near a pond

[wraith zephyr]

But now it wasn't the case.

For me.

[odd grove]

Congrats on living in a good location for the algorithm now 🫡

[pseudo topaz]

I've gotten 1 couchable in 15 hours at my home and that 1 was because of a gps drift

[indigo urchin]

i actually have evidence haha
my party is one year old so I can build a comparation for couchable hours lost and gained

this week is pretty bad

[queen coyote]

I feel like the update today has been a massive improvement... but that is anecdotal to me

[grave jungle]

Anecdotally I feel like I have more couchables now since they’ve started being aligned to public roads

[pseudo topaz]

My party turns a year old on june 1st 😅

[indigo urchin]

isn't the change just color coding the final arcanists?

[indigo urchin]

happy anniversary~!

[pseudo topaz]

21 days to go but thanks 😂

[queen coyote]

Haha maybe. Maybe it's just random but the final arcanists seem to be spread better

[grave jungle]

Yeesh, any especially notable ones throughout the year?

[odd grove]

None that will be found again 😭

[grave jungle]

Right? haha

[pseudo topaz]

This was the most sought after one from our party

[grave jungle]

I’m just curious what that data looks like over a longer time period

That’s a nice amity for sure

[pseudo topaz]

Some bestial bonds ward damage parapet and other ss3 biased amities 😅

[odd grove]

Was a good find 🫡

[indigo urchin]

my party had a 40/30 arcane feb last year

[wide thistle]

Still need a crit/dragon dmg amity

[pseudo topaz]

I got that 😂

Or was it from a different one 🤔

[pseudo topaz]

I'll ping if i ever see one

[wraith zephyr]

I will quit my party and run to u! Who needs the old party!

[indigo urchin]

It was also a 40/15 dmg at full hp at some point

Those were the two popular ones

[pseudo topaz]

Yeah you didn't share that with me

[indigo urchin]

There were a lot of people 😭

I was a baby hunter

Didn't even know about Pythia and the spreadsheets

[pseudo topaz]

I know i didnt even realize until it passed 😂

[indigo urchin]

I was mapping in my note pad back then

[pseudo topaz]

Hustle

[wraith zephyr]

What's pythia actually?

[glass gazelle]

its a bot for recording type of amity, its hour, and which node it belongs to

[next furnace]

Sorry, but you actually discussed about amities all the time here and you really did never see a chat with Pythia? 👀

[wraith zephyr]

Nope. I only see it once ppl talk about it. And the is the second time, that's why I ask.

I though it's an island lol

[proven orchid]

I never interacted with amities till T10 since I thought from start the range of values of amities was influenced by tiers so I couldn't get a 40% crit dmg in t9. So I also found out about Pythia recently, like a month

[craggy whale]

-# The Pythia bot is named after the NPC that teaches you about Amities and Memory Hunting

[wraith zephyr]

I came back last year and never really interact with it too. Only last few week I started to try amity.

And realize there's amity sharing group.

[grave jungle]

Can someone link or dm me this bot please? 👀

[sweet mesa]

In River Casino: https://discord.gg/fqYnaTbFf
There's a startup guide in the pined messages of the amity general: #1186377986665107657 message

[warm junco]

I’ll ask the question I don’t understand: end notes for memory hunts have different colors. What is that all about?

[kindred pivot]

Recent change to make it easier for memory hunting/sharing

[proven orchid]

Yeah but what about it? What is the color mean

does*

[alpine vortex]

@proven orchid the color is to differentiate when you get the same question

What do you wish from the gods (which one, red , yellow, or blue)

Because you can get the same question 5 times. And 3 of them will move

[wraith zephyr]

For me, it looks nice.

[proven orchid]

Also, 2 are static and 3 are dynamic, right?

[wraith zephyr]

I hope they move like Christmas lights during Christmas.

[wraith zephyr]

Ya

[proven orchid]

Okay, thanks for the info 💐

[warm junco]

Ty

[alpine vortex]

Yes. Red and blue are static so community can predict couchable

[buoyant nest]

Was this totally random locations,
or biased towards cities, etc?

If its random lat/lon coordinates I'd expect a lot of those points to be in the middle of the ocean.
Just wanna make sure I understand what kind of sampling was done.

[warm junco]

My alt found a +100% fishing in the store…I need two of them for main

[wraith zephyr]

You need to pray harder

[warm junco]

lol…. Trust me I think all my prayers are spent this week not going apeshit crazy on seniors were fucking up at the end of the year.

[buoyant nest]

I think (2) is the better option here.

The core issue as I see it with people looking for powerful amities is predictability
The current system is really bad at being predictable.
Requiring tens (or hundreds) of memory hunts to map out a week completely for 1-bonus and 2-bonus amities respectively.
I think this is the main reason people are drawn to couch-ability and party sharing for finding powerful amities.

Adding a bias towards current class would likely make it even less predictable
And if nothing else, harder to share.
It could also create situations where someone wants a bonus, but doesn't realize their current class is making that less likely.
Note: If the class bias was easily & conveniently documented/view-able in-game I'd actually lean more towards (1) depending on how much impact the weighting had.

The biggest issue the friends I tried to get into Orna had with memory hunts was predictability in both the pathing and amity bonuses.
For walkable amities, it'd take us to weird places, or want us to cross a highway or something.
And then it'd be something like "spells have a 2% chance to not consume mana" which no one was excited for.

Ultimately, my friends and I decided we'd much rather go for a walk in the areas we wanted to,
and enjoy the scenery a bit more (look at our phones less) than do amity hunts.

It seems like this road stuff is at least trying to make the hunts a bit more predictable from a pathing perspective.
So I'll have to try one out at some point.
Though I expect long-term it'll still be a much better option to look for couch-able amities.

[spring orchid]

Random land locations in Ontario

[buoyant nest]

Cool. That sounds like some good samples.

[alpine vortex]

My issue with option 2 is it's back to what we had before and doesn't fix the core issue that it's impossibly hard/rare to find anything good without being part of 10+ discords that all memory hunt.

[buoyant nest]

Would be interested to see a breakdown between Downtown, suburb, country areas.
Though that might be a bit hard to quantify.

[alpine vortex]

I can accept the current system that is less common to find shareable couchable spots in exchange for easier to find / better amity.

I also don't know how the weights towards current class would work with sharing, but if it means the question you answer has a larger affect on the reward I'd be game.

[buoyant nest]

I'd be down for weights too, the issue is that I'd want that to also be made really obvious in-game

But as it stands right now, the types of amity bonuses aren't even listed anywhere.
You have to go to community made spreadsheets to find out what's even possible.

The game should document this if the goal is to make the system more approachable for more casual people.

"The answer matters... it triples the chance of getting the first bonus as an effect within that category"

• This seemed to be news to hardcore players that have spent a ton of time with the system.
• if more stuff like this is added to the game, I think it needs to be something documented in-game in an obvious place.

I'm sure tons of people bounce off amities not just from the pathing,
but also because they get a useless amity on their first hunt,
and come to the conclusion that amities don't give worthwile bonuses.

[alpine vortex]

I could see codex where each bonus is added after you discover it.

Like, if 30% dragon damage could only be found on 4 specific answers. Battle -1, mantle -4, gods 3, and unfelled 2. And after finding it, it unlocks the codex entry for that answer only.

You know people love new things to codex lol

[split coral]

Wouldn’t weights just make amities less shareable? You’d have to have one seed per class, increasing confusion in amity sharing parties

[alpine vortex]

I don't like class weights.... I do like question weights

[buoyant nest]

yeah, if it's hard constraints (and in the codex) instead of just weights I think that would also make stuff much better.

e.g. only melee classes get the "simple attacks deal X% more damage"

instead of it being some unknown % more likely

and it's in the codex after you find it

[alpine vortex]

40% crit would be tied to RS and we'd all have to switch to the dark side to hunt

[buoyant nest]

I'd be so down

[wraith zephyr]

I might want to build a basic attack mage if there's some gears or mechanics that support it in the future.

[buoyant nest]

Basic attacks scale of Attack though, and mages have really low attack? 🤨

I don't think it's worth keeping a fully random system in the case that maybe, sometime in the future, a class designed to be bad at basic attacks gets to be good at basic attacks.

And if that does happen, it could just be added to their pool if it's really important?

Would you want to keep Apex bonuses as an option for mage in case some day they get some way to get an apex bar?

afaik there is no way to use apex skills outside of being a deity

[wanton topaz]

They do not. Basic attack scales off of whatever stat the class is associated with

[craggy whale]

I can't say I love the idea of weighting by class, given that most amities are wholly usable by any class

[kindred pivot]

^ this
Also thought I would share this here too - being the only class who received event-limited amity feels weird. Don't get me wrong, having flask charge via amity is very nice, potentially opens few niche but very fun builds etc etc, but relying on shop gamble twice a year for a boost to core feature of the class... idk

[sullen berry]

So is beoH both then 🤔

[wanton topaz]

No it's magic. You can tell based on whether your menu says "Skills" (att/melee) or "Spells" (mag)

[sullen berry]

Oh intresting ok

[wanton topaz]

Well I don't actually have beoH unlocked but the other 2 beos are spells

[buoyant nest]

Yeah, I guess every class has tons of important event equipment,
But heretic is the only one with event amity right now.

[kindred pivot]

Like... if team doesn't want to add them to the pool (I can see why), maybe just let us refresh the shop with event currency or smth like this

It's pretty frustrating to rely on very limited gambling knowing well that it's very likely you won't event get common max bonus amity, not to mention a good leg. Same goes to other amities like fishing, but well, it feels a bit more optional than flask boost

[warm junco]

One of the psychological differences between memory hunts, and every other part of the game is that every other part of the game has predictable items that can be gained through reasonable time frames and effort but memory hunts cannot be done so.

Case in point: since I found out that there are 100% fishing bonus awards I would love to be able to get those, but the odds of that are very, very low to almost never, but I can’t say never because my alt found one in the shop

Well, that frustrates me, I do know that’s part of the game. And we have joked about this for years that it’s the “law of Odie”

that your alt will get what your main would like

I would suggest that maybe to resolve this issue that a system placed similar to the English system where you can keep on re-rolling for your bonuses on your items until you get the one you need. Right now just re-rolling the negatives is not what people care for

[wanton topaz]

You have basically the whole month to check your shop each day for the amities you want. I agree it's hard to get an ideal legendary/ornate amity effect from the shop, but getting a 100% fishing is more than doable

I would guess/hope that some of these effects might make it onto the normal amity effect list, but who knows

[pearl crown]

I've seen at least two so far in the monument guild, you'll be fine

[kindred pivot]

Well...
It's only like 3-4 amities per day with new bonuses, considering you also get regular ones
Which is not a lot and I'm pretty sure a significant % of active player base won't even get all regular ones they want, let alone actually good ones. The issue is not that they are rare, but that no amount of grind can affect this, so it's pure luck

[wanton topaz]

Sure that's a valid concern

I know it was suggested earlier that BAY/BAX raids should drop one amity fromthe shop effect pool

[warm junco]

You are forgetting the law of odie…since my main would best for these, finding them will not be that easy…

we’ve all experienced those drops for the other classes that are incredible, but NOT for the class you play :). its the law

See this does not fit my play

[pearl crown]

but you bought it anyway (I hope) 'cause 100% rewards and these are cheap as everything!

[warm junco]

Not a fan of finesse but if another event with double rewards pops…this would triple them

[alpine vortex]

I mean it still requires you to win but yes

Until then, you can wear 2x and get triple rewards until the next one starts

[wanton topaz]

Anyone tested if that effect works on world loadout or pvp loadout

[alpine vortex]

I still haven't seen a 100% bof....but I have 2x 50% rare mob

[wraith zephyr]

I need that. As a heretic, that's good.

[warm junco]

How?

[wraith zephyr]

Good for BOF lol

[past knot]

well it probably isn't anything having to do with being a heretic.
Being able to farm BoF a bit more efficiently, 3% dodge, and the tiny tiny parting remark

it's not bad, but it's not that much different from just a plain 100%

[wraith zephyr]

With the Dodge + gold bug. I actually can just have lesser dex....

[past knot]

🤏 this much of a diff 🤣 but something is better than nothing

[wraith zephyr]

16% is a lot for me hahaha

[past knot]

where's 16% coming from?

[wraith zephyr]

That's besides having the 100% reward.

[past knot]

the dodge from the amity is 3% (it's a shop reward, so realistically you'll have only one...)

[wraith zephyr]

Double this and double gold bug.

Oh wait 3.

12%

[past knot]

13% .-.

[wraith zephyr]

Still good with the reward.

[indigo urchin]

We have cookies

[wraith zephyr]

One of heretic legs is already in the dark side.

[indigo urchin]

You guys dark side is a room with blackout curtains

After you got flasks u got the sun on your window

[wraith zephyr]

It's still too bright. We can't handle it.

The dark side is the way.

[indigo urchin]

I'm gatekeeping the dark side

[solemn lion]

The biggest problem I can see is this is going to negatively impact fresh t10s the most, going to be pretty off putting to be extremely difficult to find the key amities to progress

[wraith zephyr]

I assume fresh t10 don't focus much on amity?

[alpine vortex]

Depends. People who want to get stronger faster should. 2 good amity is like instantly adding 80+ AL

[solemn lion]

I’m fairly new, and I’ve helped a lot of fresh t10s, key amities are extremely important. 100% mem, 40% crit, 80% res, 25% acc, 30% Summ, 15% follower, etc

[solemn lion]

Exactly

[alpine vortex]

That said 95% don't memory hunt at all

[solemn lion]

For a lot of builds, getting that 40% crit Amity makes a game changing difference for fresh t10s

[alpine vortex]

I always find it funny when people don't hunt try to brag about having 400 + dm....bro I use that many in 2 weeks :-p

[solemn lion]

I’ve been saving mine for a few good farming runs, but with the changes is doesn’t feel worth :/

[alpine vortex]

We'll see how it goes this week with the memory event

I wager most aren't even testing this week

[wraith zephyr]

Monday hunt and the hour hunt?

[alpine vortex]

What?

[wraith zephyr]

I mean the 400 is spend on Monday hunting for good seed hourly and then the rest of the week is getting the ornate of that good seed.

[alpine vortex]

I scout 6 main parties in river casino, and before the change would scout key shifts from last year across all the public discords

[wraith zephyr]

Damn broooo 🫡

[alpine vortex]

Honestly with the changes I expect there to be more to hunt, but less people wanting to hunt since they can't predict anything other than 2 final nodes

[solemn lion]

I still think the biggest turn off is the lack of couchable predictability

[alpine vortex]

I'm hopeful that Odie has 1 final update on Monday that increases the correlation between question and rewards.

Agreed, knowing I can't hunt at work anymore cause the roads move everything away makes me sad, but I'm much more willing to go on walks if I'm more likely to find good amity

[deft jacinth]

In theory they can get all of them at earlier tiers just doing mnemonics consistently (no easy party hunting available though)

[steep pilot]

I disagree. Seriously, Orna is a GPS game and it's totally possible (even more possible with these changes) to find core amities like 40% crit if you put in the effort with walking and hunting. And walking and hunting is now made much improved with nodes now sticking to roads.

I found 40% crit and 25% accessory amities before amity parties even existed and back then DMs were much harder to come by

Maybe this is callous but I feel like if a solo player doesn't have a 40% crit it's because they're not trying

[craggy whale]

Can confirm as the resident early-gamer, good amities are obtainable in any tier, and without relying on "public" amity hunting parties

-# With some exceptions like Holy/Dark/Dragon/Arcane, Summons, etc. not being available as a T4 bonus/malus

[sonic karma]

Or they don't know that it exists 😛

[wraith zephyr]

I got good amity too from solo.

[warm junco]

Anyone know if the fishing boost can be gained from the valor amnity

[steep pilot]

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask

Whatever it is, it's not how amities work. Also the fishing boost is exclusive to the event amities in the monument guild

[warm junco]

That answered it

[queen coyote]

Does Distorted Mnemonic increase the chance of getting an Ornate, or does it just guarantee Legendary?

[wraith zephyr]

Guarantee and increase.

[buoyant nest]

I think part of the issue here (at least for me) is that good/great 1-bonus amities are pretty obtainable (though still take significant time to obtain)

And in your experience usable/good 2-bonus and 3-bonus amities are also obtainable (though you're definitely one of the most hardcore players).

But I care more about on getting specific combinations.
Either because they're just strong (e.g. 40% crit + 30% Dragon DMG + 30% arcane DMG)
They enable certain builds (e.g. 15% hybrid + All skills hybrid)
Or could be good counters to certain encounters while enabling a build (e.g. All skills hybrid + 80% Arcane Resist + 40% Crit)

And the difference in power between a good 1-bonus and an a specific 2/3-bonus amity is massive
(which is why Oracle is generally the best spec if you have the right amities)

With the current system, someone interacting with it in the intended gps-based (i.e. non-couchable) way has effectively a 0% chance to get specific 3-bonus amities (let alone 2 of them for oracle).
Overwhelmingly, they simply won't be in your amity pool.
As frustrating as limited-time events can be, at least you know the thing you want (e.g. Beguiled lute x) is obtainable by doing something specific.
Amities have no such guarantees due to the weekly pool mechanic + the pool being un-knowable without using up 100+ DMs.

I've seen some estimates (I forget where, maybe Trex) that it's a 1/80 to get a 3-bonus amity with a normal DM.
At 1/day that's 80 days between 3-bonuses, and you have to highroll the bonus types, and the bonus values too.

So put another way,
Even if you had guaranteed bonus types,
It would take an average 80 days at 1/day to get a specific 3-bonus amity.
And even then you could low roll on the bonuses for a
[5% crit damage, 5% accessory, 5% dragon damage]
after 80 days....

It seems like most stuff works in 5% increments
And distribution is not documented, so I'll assume uniform.
80*8*5*6
So on average 19200 attempts (52 years at 1/day) to roll into a 3-bonus, and have the max bonus for a [40% crit damage, 25% accessory, 30% dragon damage]
If the bonus values are full random, and the bonus types are fixed.

So I guess in that case, getting 2 of them would take 102 years on average.

[craggy whale]

The only issue I really have with your analysis is that its entirely doable to do more than 1 DM per day. Thats just the baseline people can operate off of. If you only killed 1 B.Apollyon a day, you'd encounter similar numbers. Lots of guilds offer DMs as an exchange.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree that amities have probably the most painful RNG in the game, despite also having fairly large power gaps between "good" 1/2/3 line amities.

[alpine vortex]

1/80 also assumes base DM, with no shrine buffs. With distorted + shrine, it should be significantly lower, that said someone still has to scout it and find it first. And 1/80 would be an average some one will get it in 5 dm and someone else wont get it at all after 300 DM

The rest i agree with, finding a specific combination is the hard part. Its why i was hoping leveling them up was at least going to be an option, but in lue of that, i still have hope that odie can tweak the weight of the question -> reward to make it more of an amity hunt, and less of an amity shot in the dark

[buoyant nest]

I agree that someone can do more than 1 amity hunt per day.
Though it also takes much more time to walk through a full non-couchable amity hunt than do 1 raid.

Maybe like 20-30 minutes to walk through 2 amity hunts?
I picked 1/day since that's probably more like 10-15 minutes which seems more approachable for people with less time.
Though even with 2/day the 50+ years is an under-estimate since that assumes you already at least have the right types of combinations guaranteed.
Even running 10/day that's 5 years on average.

The new distorted mnemonics would make much quicker work,
but like Trex said, finding the right bonuses is the really hard part,
and who knows how long it would take just to find the right combo.

[steep pilot]

It takes like 5 minutes at most to do an amity hunt walking

Usually much less

[buoyant nest]

I think that depends a lot on how close you are to highways and other major roads

[steep pilot]

Yeah, definitely. Back when I used to hunt a lot walking I'd drive into town where I could walk in any direction

[buoyant nest]

Let's just agree on 5-15 minutes depending on geography and RNG?

[buoyant nest]

that would certainly help a lot

[wraith zephyr]

How many amities type we have in the pool now?

[buoyant nest]

looks like 127-ish "primary" options
162-ish if you include secondaries.

Though actual number of bonuses is more like half to a third of that?
Some stuff like a specific weapon proficiency only has 1 Prefix associated with it
Other stuff like "orns" has 4 prefixes associated with it

[steep pilot]

76 options that can be the first bonus on an amity

However, they do have different weightings

[buoyant nest]

e.g. Follower act only has 1 prefix, but arcane resist has 2

idk if that makes arcane resist 2x more likely than follower act, but I'd think it would?

[steep pilot]

Realistically we don't know if # of prefixes corresponds to weighting

[buoyant nest]

The answer doing a 3x increase also throws stuff off too since Odie said it's in the game,
but it's completely un-documented so it could also throw stuff off more

e.g. if all prefixes are equial, but follower act has more answers that 3x boost it than arcane resist

[alpine vortex]

We havent historically tracked names, but we know stuff like crit dmg can shift 4 ways...and happens to have 4 names. While stuff like view distance/accessories have fewer names and fewer shifts

in the current state 1/76 vs 3/76 is very small, and your still better off checking everything

[steep pilot]

Trex, when you were checking that crit was 3x more common from a specific answer did you happen to compile how often every bonus appears?

[alpine vortex]

I was just comparing the occurance of any "crit dmg will be increase" so all ranks of it, i did not look at the total number of nodes hunted.

[steep pilot]

Ah, nevermind then. I'll continue on with what I was doing

[alpine vortex]

but it was 1 years worth of data from OL + RC

[steep pilot]

I'm trying to get Google Gemini to compile all of the Aon Hunter data from ever into a table. Idk if it'll do it or not, but I still have a trial of Google AI Pro so I want to see if it can

[wraith zephyr]

That's is I assuming u stop hunting after monday.

Try recreate the party and do 50-60 DM per hour.

16 hours a day
For a week.
50 x 16 x 7 = 5600 tries/week.
19200/5600 = 3.43 weeks to find one by random.

Let's try only 6 hours a day.
4067 = 1650 tries/week.
19200/1650 = 11.64 weeks

I think u will definitely find it lesser than 52 yrs by random.

I'm spending 100++ DM per day to scout and get some ornates. 7 month to get one desire amities if I refresh my party everyday?

-------–-----

The issue is there's 76 amities type.

Oh ya 3 quality types, ignore superior.

76^3 x 76^3 x 76^3 = 8.46e16 = 8.46 x 10^16

To get that one specific amity with max stat.

Welcome to infinite Possibilities.

Even if we ignore quality,
76x76x76 = 438076 possibilities to get that specific 3 bonuses.

Oh wait, we need to look through 5 questions too.

Omg.

I hate memory hunting.

My mathing might be wrong.

[sonic karma]

I did one for JoT's group

stopped thinking me too chatgpt

[craggy whale]

-50% Simple Attack
Bonus
I think its confused

[modest garnet]

Of freaking course the ward absorption malus is so common that the AI thinks it is a bonus.

[buoyant nest]

The 52 years is if the bonus types are locked in.

If we us Knight's 1/76 estimate for # of bonuses, then it's actually 52* (76 choose 3) = 52 * 70300 = 3655600 ~~attempts~~ years

[alpine vortex]

i mean those are all malus anyways

[sonic karma]

It doesnt know whats good and bad

[craggy whale]

So tell it, or fix your data?

[sonic karma]

i am bro chill

[wraith zephyr]

I quit!

[sonic karma]

top bonus - Quest monsters 69/580

[alpine vortex]

best option is to export a google sheet, ignore the malue, and write a script that puts all the data in 1 tab.

[modest garnet]

The AI has been sabotaged by the Deities

[buoyant nest]

lol fair.
The math of it is nutty

[modest garnet]

If it is any consolation, this exactly why I asked about all of the probabilities then didn't do anything with them

[sonic karma]

20% damage to ward - 38 / 580
50% quest rewards - 38 / 580
ward turns 4 - 35 / 580

[wraith zephyr]

Imagine AI as one of the event monster.
Wait technically, all monsters are AI.

I google what is 10^16, there's no words for it.

Omg....

[sonic karma]

16 zeros?

or something

[modest garnet]

Yup, AI used to mean "hey how will the dumb computer player act". Now it's about burning trees to hallucinate a bunch of useless crap.

[wraith zephyr]

There word in English at 10^14. But google didn't give me an English name for 10^16. Is there a word for it?

[alpine vortex]

10e15 is a quadrillion, so 10e16 is tens of quadrillions

[wraith zephyr]

10 of quad the fark multi verse.

[buoyant nest]

oh wait, it's actually 1334294000 attempts on full random.
I multiplied the number of years not attempts at first 😅

[alpine vortex]

i have to explain quadrillions in court for statistics. basically billions = people on earth, trillions = you need multiple earths, quadrillions you need multiple galaxy worth of earth

[wraith zephyr]

So we are going into the quantum realm of memories.

[steep pilot]

Ah good, gemini hallucinated that it found a pattern between questions and answers and gave me that instead of what I asked for.

[craggy whale]

Unsurprised tbh

[steep pilot]

Same

[solid tundra]

Just run with it, maybe it's on to something

[steep pilot]

Google kept pushing me to try AI integration into sheets though, so I tried it

[alpine vortex]

step 1 to memory hunting...haullicnate...make sure to eat some mushrooms on your walk

[buoyant nest]

yeah.
but don't worry,
2-bonus is only around 2052000 attempts
0.1% of the attempts needed to full random into a 3-bonus! (on average)

[steep pilot]

I just don't know the proper way in Sheets to count the occurences of values across ~200 sheets

[craggy whale]

You'd write a G.App Script

[buoyant nest]

If you pointed me to the sheets, I could probably dump them to text files and count with a pythons script after I get done with work

[steep pilot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e8-X6cfskLDFuJBgICjlUKMnqHTW9QCUQXfX1VPnG44/edit?pli=1&gid=123222695#gid=123222695

[sonic karma]

Has Odie or Dangy touched base back since last friday?

[buoyant nest]

Odie did chime in to comment some on couchability %ages on Saturday which was cool

[wraith zephyr]

So odie tested 1 million hunts.....

[buoyant nest]

aside from that, nothing since Friday I think

[steep pilot]

Unfortunately, unlike us, he's allowed to bot and spoof

[sonic karma]

Or he just got quick fingers

[buoyant nest]

and 1 million arms

[wraith zephyr]

I'm curious by the computer power to simulate that hhhaahaa

[buoyant nest]

all located across Ontario

[sonic karma]

he fast

[wraith zephyr]

Or 1 million multi verse of himself.

[solid tundra]

"Hey Google, give me the results of 1 million dms"

[steep pilot]

Vibe QA

[sonic karma]

Hey claude, develop Orna2

[buoyant nest]

lol

[craggy whale]

Make mistakes, and make sure to annoy everyone equally with any changes

[sonic karma]

then, simulate 1 million DM's

[buoyant nest]

I don't think claude can handle the 80+ GB of open street map files lol

[sonic karma]

it just needs rural Ontario

[wraith zephyr]

So....
I scout and hunt some amities through 16 hours.
150++ DMs.
I got 4 ornates.

Low or high?

[kindred pivot]

No shrine?

[wraith zephyr]

Oh wait, there's 2 hours shrine.

Damn shouldnt do that.

[grave jungle]

Do we know how much the shrine quality buff actually helps?

[wraith zephyr]

Me personally gets it for the rewards.

The shrine probably helps but I dunno.

[grave jungle]

I mean yeah naturally

Was just wondering if anyone has ran the numbers with a worthwhile sample size

[wraith zephyr]

Someone probably will run it for event tomorrow.

[grave jungle]

Yeah I’ll probably do the math on mine at the end

600 mnemonics (not including mnemonics expected from recollection) is going to take a hot minute though lol

[sonic karma]

Roughly 295 after recollection assuming you find absolutely no worthwhile amities 😛

[grave jungle]

Don’t remind me 😂 someone in ingame chat said it’s about 1.5x counting full recollection so that sounds right

[sonic karma]

Yea 1.5 ~

but you might find a good amity or two 😉

[grave jungle]

I’m terribly confident I won’t lol

[sonic karma]

Odie might be cooking something as we speak!

(fingers crossed)

[grave jungle]

That’s fine though, in it for the mats not the amities mainly

[craggy whale]

Ain't gonna be able to burn through all mine during the event, not even gonna try.

plus, I want the G.XP and Amities more than anything

[sonic karma]

dam

[grave jungle]

Good lord

From the BoF grind?

[sonic karma]

Now imagine that grind with the new BoF amity

https://klipy.com/gifs/leonardo-dicaprio-hell-3--k01KRBY3093NGE7EDGZCCJ4328J

and then in a few years he can use two of them

[grave jungle]

Been trying to figure out a well off enough build to get away with two

Honestly just hoping a parapet BoF combo shows up lmao

[craggy whale]

I've been searching through 2 to 4 different parties every so often, so I'm slowly getting through the pile.

Lots of abandoning and recreating parties to check more as well

[sonic karma]

I have a private amity alt if you ever need another party

[craggy whale]

I've got >20 alts for party swapping. I'm good

[sonic karma]

all good playa

if my theory is correct, i might end up with a lot of couchable at work lol

[grave jungle]

This convo is making me wanna burn through a few more mne towers tonight for a few extra mnemonics

[sonic karma]

if you save to recollect during ornaversary, you may even double your proofs 😛

[solid tundra]

Giants and titans is right along ornaversary, so it's not a bad idea

[mental trench]

I live in Golden Valley AZ could you fix it there?

[sonic karma]

i will fix arizona

omw

[grave jungle]

“I can fix her”

[mental trench]

the dirt roads are real roads...and can the washes have fishing?

[grave jungle]

It’s all based on OSM mappings and how they’re tagged over there

[wraith zephyr]

20 alts. Oh God. Quadrillion possibilities reduced.

[mental trench]

okay it shows in blue that is why i was confused...?

[sonic karma]

does the blue have little waves?

[mental trench]

no waves.... just crosses through the whole land like a river but no waves...

[grave jungle]

yeah the waves are indicative of being marked in OSM as… whatever classification of water is able to be fished in

[sonic karma]

yeah gotta have the lil waves on it to fish out of

[mental trench]

okay thanks

[sonic karma]

question for the gang and im sure its been asked previously, which nodes are static? Color wise

[wraith zephyr]

Red blue

[sonic karma]

DAM

My scouting keeps finding the green one in couchable range

[wraith zephyr]

Lucky u I guess. Not lucky for others lol

[sonic karma]

https://klipy.com/gifs/crying-emoji-7--k01KRC0CJ9GJS4GD48EWSYSKEC1

i was afraid of that

my work has two main roads that are, i guess, 150m away. and then nothing on the south or east so work seems to pick up a lot of couchables

[steep pilot]

If you really want to grind out amities, find a peninsula with one road

[sonic karma]

omw to michigan i guess

[steep pilot]

Coastal Maine also seems good

[sonic karma]

asap rocky once sang a song about this particular spot, it was a reference to memory hunting i guess

[wraith zephyr]

Damnnn

[buoyant nest]

uh, if there's red/blue as static, and green is non-static
might be good to change that.

I think red/green are confuse-able for some forms of color-blindness
So some people are gonna confuse the static and non-static?

Maybe just changing it to be red/green as the static ones would work?
I don't know enough about color-blindlness to know which colors would actually be best.

[craggy whale]

Burton, your colourblindness is needed for input

[sonic karma]

I am not colour blind lol

[wraith zephyr]

What color is this 💲

[buoyant nest]

FWIW I found this.

Seems like Blue/Purple could do OK depending on the shade of purple

Maybe
Static = Blue + Blue-ish purple
Non-Static = Red + Orange + yellow

?

[alpine vortex]

Ok i downloaded aon, trimmed out "old sheets' and stacked them into a single column.

295 unique primary bonuses were detected across 257 questions. Any result without a question was deemed not useable for obvious reasons. I feel like the data set came out much smaller than expected. I think google sheets just cant handle exporting data from 100 + tabs :-p it feels more like 10 weeks worth of data than 100 weeks.

It would probably help if you could download google sheets like aon, but everything i tried just gets corrupted/wont open.

google sheets was only able to export 30/100 tabs before it timed out. still 3/5 a year, but it just goes to show the reason we didnt see a correlation, with that many questions and that many unique bonuses.

[wide thistle]

Not sure if this has been suggested, but would be awesome if the mini games were colored also to show static/dynamic

[alpine vortex]

i did suggest it and was told that it wasnt the important part 🙁

[wide thistle]

Sad face

Then we could determine what is truly couchable

[alpine vortex]

I repeated my data set using 52 weeks of aon, and got 1000 questions with 289 unique primary bonuses

i havent broken it down to questions yet, because...well it doesnt seem large enough to see any meaningful results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SF1gEnAzoh314HltGNSBGIIb05wm5AsdHpinoyEuUOQ/edit?usp=sharing
here ie is the slightly compiled data :-p

[alpine vortex]

agreed

[deft jacinth]

most painful RNG in the game is MF+ accessories, which weren't relevant until we got apex in the game, now those make a massive difference for deity raiding and it's RNG fiesta even if you played years

[proven orchid]

How does reweaving work? Like, can we get an explanation

[sonic karma]

it takes an unlocked amity, and replaces the malus on it with a different malus

[proven orchid]

I know but how i do it

[buoyant nest]

oracle temple

[proven orchid]

I am in my oracle temple and I don't see any reweaving option anyhwere

anywhere*

[buoyant nest]

I didn't see it till I bought one of the reweaving items

[past knot]

Gotta have some loomstones on you

[proven orchid]

I have 2

[buoyant nest]

Then it should work, and you either need to restart something, or it's a bug

[past knot]

shrug

[sonic karma]

its one of the sub tabs on the menu

[buoyant nest]

It's supposed to be here

[proven orchid]

Appears now, I dunno, game suddenly said I am allowed

Ty

[wraith zephyr]

Maybe you locked your amities.

[wraith zephyr]

Someone suggested to name the amities with the max stat to the person who found it.

Cause to find a max stat unique 3 combination, it's a miracle.

[alpine vortex]

That was me. If a mythical amity is found 1x a month the community can vote on it and it would be added to the drop pool for an event raid so others could farm it

[wraith zephyr]

76^3 = 438976 unique amities with max stat.

That's enough for every month one amity.

Maybe someone can do a bounty on it.

Every Monday. Hunt for memories.

Put up bounty for it. 5k scrolls?

[alpine vortex]

Definitely no new amity at 0 utc in event shop. So yeah, just local midnight

[buoyant nest]

It's more like 70k unique amities (76 choose 3) if the order of the bonuses are ignored.

[wraith zephyr]

76 remove 1.
75 remove 1.
74.

So should be 76x75x74 = 421800 unique with max stat.

Oh wait could be the different order.

My mistake.

(76x75x74) ÷6 =70300.

If first bonus is fix, 2775 chances to get a unique ornate at max.

[dusty otter]

Me. No. Like. Dynamic. Nodes.

[buoyant nest]

Yeah, counting is surprisingly hard

Ends up being
76! / (3! * (76-3)!) for 76 choose 3 I think

yeah, you got it

[dusty otter]

and while I'm here. Me. No. Like. This. Memory. Hunt. Massive. Gains. Meta.

[wraith zephyr]

All divided by 3,2,1 total.

70300 if there's 100 ppl, each only need 703 DM to fully record the data in a week.

[buoyant nest]

3! = 3*2*1

[wraith zephyr]

Oh ya hahahh

[buoyant nest]

They'd need to get the 3-bonus amity first try for that

so probably need to mulitply all that by about 80 on average

wait

actually

how many parties are we talking about?

or are we assuming if it's full random

[wraith zephyr]

100 ppl.

[buoyant nest]

but each party only has about24*4*5 possible amities right?

since which amities are available are dependent on your party + hour of the day + which witch you pick + your answer

and that's also assuming they happen to get the max value for each bonus

?

[wraith zephyr]

If just getting the first bonus for max quality.
76x76x76 ?

[buoyant nest]

oh, you mean just scouting out the first bonus on everything?

[wraith zephyr]

That's the first step right?

[buoyant nest]

the 76x76x76-ish numbers are the number of bonus types.
e.g. Crit damage + all skills hybrid + dragon damage

The number of possible values depends on the amity

stuff like "all skills hybrid" only has 1 "value" since it doesn't scale

but stuff like "Crit damage" has 8 possible values, since it can range from 5%-40% in increments of 5

and this is not included in the 76x76x76 calculations

[wraith zephyr]

Oh wait 8?

[buoyant nest]

If you include the value ranges for stuff, the numbers get much better

[buoyant nest]

Yeah, the crit damage amity can be 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, or 40% crit damage

[wraith zephyr]

Ok. Just average it out to 3 since there's 3 rarity.

Superior, famed , legendary, ornate when u find the first bonus.

Oh wait 4.

Possibility of finding first bonus with max quality.

[buoyant nest]

I thought the "quality" (superior, famed, legendary, ornate) just affected the # of bonuses?

[wraith zephyr]

Ya but just use that as an average for the quality.

As in the range of the bonuses.

So when u search for the one nodes in an hour, there's 76 possibility for a type of bonuses, and 4 average possibility of value ranges.

[buoyant nest]

I don't think the quality affects the value ranges though

[wraith zephyr]

Ya I know I just use that to average out 76 range. I'm too lazy to find out all their 76 range.

I'm just using an estimation.

[wraith zephyr]

So by looking at the possibility of repeat first bonus.
76x75x74x4 which is average value of range for first bonus.
In one party map, there's 1.687 million possibility for the first bonus.
1.265 million if the average value range is 3 for first bonuses.

No wonder odie tested million nodes.

Using the lowest 1.265 mil, spreading all of it into 1 year.
52 weeks/52 days, Monday, 24 hrs, 5 final nodes with 4 question.

Wait a minute.
There's only 25k nodes in a year for one party. How the fark Odie gonna fit in 70k unique max quality amities?????

[buoyant nest]

If we want to check the total number of combinations, I think it's actually a little worse than that.

If we estimate an average of 4 per amity,
That means we effectively have 76*4 options.
Or in other words, 304 options total.

So it would actually be 304 choose 3,
or 304*303*302 / 6 = 4_636_304 unique combinations if my math is right.
You can't quite just multiply everything by 4.
Unfortunately counting can't be that easy.

wait

but you can't have 2 crit things

so maybe my math is actually wrong

and yours is right

counting is too hard 😅

I think you're probably right

but I'm not actually sure

I think it might be more like
(76*75*74 / 6) *4*4*4

🤔

Since I think we need to multiply by 4 for each one

[wraith zephyr]

So 1st bonus 76 possibility with average 3 range. There's possibility of repeat so these repeat are considered in second/third bonus, which each have 75x3 and 74x3 for the value and types.

[buoyant nest]

since it's 3 things that can take on 4 values

not just one

[wraith zephyr]

3/4, I prefer taking it lower because there some there's only have 1 value, parapet, accessories etc.

[buoyant nest]

sure

so then I think it's (76*75*74 / 6) *3*3*3

which would be 1_898_100

[wraith zephyr]

Cause we only have 52 weeks/
24 hours/
5 final nodes/
4 average question.
That's 25k nodes in a yearly repeat memory.

But we have 70k unique amity.

Ok that doesnt math, where did Odie put the other 45k unique max value amity?

[buoyant nest]

I don't think a given year is guaranteed to have all combinations in a single party

If you want a chance at seeing everything you'd have to swap parties

once per year or something

[wraith zephyr]

That's assuming that 3-4 maps all contain the 70k max value unique amity.
Not including the other lower value amity.

[buoyant nest]

Side-note:

I guess this means that getting any particular 3-bonus amity is about a 1 in 15 millions odds (if it were fully random)

[buoyant nest]

yeah

[wraith zephyr]

With max value.

[buoyant nest]

with any value

[wraith zephyr]

Oh wait ya hahhha

[buoyant nest]

that's the 1_898_100 multiplied by 80 since Trex estimated getting a 3 bonus amity is 1 in 80

wait

no

[wraith zephyr]

No.

[buoyant nest]

it's 1 in 151 million

(about 151_848_000 to be more precise with our estimate)

[wraith zephyr]

[buoyant nest]

I made a python script to estimate using actual ranges for most amities
(some stuff with ranges like collateral damage I just didn't want to guess how many options and said it has 2 options).

It estimates 100_974_159 total unique combinations.
Though this is likely an under-estimate as noted above.

It does also correctly not put non-primary amities as the first bonus

which likely is part of what cut down so much on the number of things

actually, if I remove that part it only goes up to 101_193_697 combinations

[wraith zephyr]

Roughly around 1 to 1.6 mil. That's the simulation probably Odie did to check the couchability.

[buoyant nest]

couchability is independent of the actual amity bonuses

for whatever that's worth

Trex was saying even when the amity pool has changed in the past, the couchability remained the same while the amities themselves changed

(the new patch this discussion thread is about being the exception)

[wraith zephyr]

Ya but that's also another way of saying , that's actually million nodes possible of being generated due to the amount of possible amity.

That's why I said the range of number should be between 1-1.6 mil.

Which Odie simulated 22% couchability on that million simulation in his home town.

Couchability is not confirm amity. But him generating that amount means that's probably the probability of all the nodes he can generate.

He can generate more than that, but there's no point of repeating the same thing on those same nodes.

[wraith zephyr]

Ya trex listed all the possibilities of 190 bonuses.
190x189x187/3! = 1.12 mil.

Unique amity
76x75x74/3! = 70300

Possible nodes in a year.
52 weeks x
24 hours x
5 final nodes x
4 question
= 24960 nodes, 30k if we calculate that 5 answer question.

37 non-repeating maps to find all possible 3 bonuses amity in a year.

[indigo urchin]

seowqj is good at math???

[wraith zephyr]

I'm just burn out from grinding PvP.

[glass gazelle]

U need a break from orna..

[alpine vortex]

That assumes 100% mapping. In practice at best some parties had 20% on average, some parties averaged 5% or less.

End of the day, the math is irrelevant , the take home is the same. The odds of finding a good amity are super rare. And once you find it sharing it is a challenge and a balance.

Could you imagine if only 6 people were allowed an ornate drop from a month long event before the devs said that's it and made you wait a year untill 6 more people got it.

[wraith zephyr]

Wait why 6 ppl only?

[steep pilot]

I assume he used that number because it's the max party size

[wraith zephyr]

Ya the math is irrelevant, I just doing it for fun lol.

[wraith zephyr]

Oh.

But I remember trex said there's 100 of ppl wanted to get it in an hour.

Insanely mad.

[alpine vortex]

It's about how many people get an ornate from the average party

[wraith zephyr]

I think I should put up a bounty hunting for the amity. U know, just in case someone randomly found a rare one.

[sonic karma]

This is not the fun math they told me about in grade school

[fathom patio]

[glass gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/ken-jeong-community-too-small-to-read-read-reading-gif-5494204

[fathom patio]

i didn't even add that one, odie did. reading the emoji is the real discovery

[wraith zephyr]

What is it about that emoji

[fathom patio]

it's smol

[pseudo topaz]

Will there be any improvements in the mat, and orn rewards of the regular and distorted mnemonic?

[grave jungle]

Probably not? It was done when a step was removed #patch-notes message

[pseudo topaz]

Doesn't seem like it thou 😅

Should have been a straight 20% boost from cutting down a step.

[solid tundra]

The mat/orn gain was already buffed and is more than enough with the current multipliers

[indigo urchin]

Example

[grave jungle]

Wait, 78?

How the hell

[pseudo topaz]

Not enough

[solid tundra]

Yea I'm not getting 78 either but don't think I'm missing any buffs

[grave jungle]

Astral, coin, poua, apo shrine, memory event, memory gear, Ely follower, event buff

Am I missing one?

[solid tundra]

No he said it was a distorted

[grave jungle]

Ohhhh

Okay yeah also if anyone is here from HoA they have another buff we don’t too

[split nest]

I've hypothesized that the range for materials went from 5-15 to 5-20

Delirax is helping with confirming that, but it at least goes up to 18 :)

The material gains from this are arguably the fastest way to get things in the game, I'd hardly say they need to be buffed - quite the opposite 😅

[pseudo topaz]

I appreciate the response, can't hurt to ask for more

It would be nice if there's a slight bump to the lower limit 🫡

[split nest]

let's double check that lower limit then - if 264 comes up, that's our lower limit

[indigo urchin]

Is this with everything on?

[split nest]

yes

[indigo urchin]

Cuz I got 185 without poua

[split nest]

185 without PoUA translates to that 370, which means you got a base of 7

[indigo urchin]

what would be the number then?

[split nest]

7

[indigo urchin]

For 264

[split nest]

oh, cut it in half - 132

[heady lantern]

Is base number Base XP you get?

[split nest]

base is what it would be with 0 memory hunt buffs

at max bonus, you should be getting 52 guild experience always

GEXP for them is also just "whatever your multi is" - so if you have a 4x multi, you get 4 GEXP

[heady lantern]

So im getting 51 guild xp what is the max mats I can get per node?

[steep pilot]

1020, I think? 51x20?

I'm getting 25 guild XP but I'm not sure what I'm missing other than a PoUA

[solid tundra]

G.Oracle?

[steep pilot]

Oh, wait, is a celestial + offhand better than Trialing?

[solid tundra]

Yes

[steep pilot]

That'd be what I'm missing

[split nest]

much better, about 3% better as the over 10% comes from a 1H instead of a 2H

some people are suggesting the mat range is instead 6-18 (from 5-15, this makes sense)

It would make the max 951

on the bright side, it makes the average easy like last time, a flat 12 x your bonuses (or 634 with everything on)

and of course, I have calculations for how much materials & GEXP you should expect to get with a given amount of DMs hooked up to these screenshots, so if anyone wants to know the numbers I'll plug em in

I can get:

• How many total materials you'll get
• How many average per material
• How much guild EXP you'll get (and if you give me your starter GEXP, what level you'll end at)
• About how much time it'll take to run them all (assuming 30s per DM)

WITH recollection taken into consideration

[steep pilot]

I'm not sure "3%" = "Much better" but I did it anyway

I had to re-adorn one of my spare celestials then run a mnemosyne tower since I must've dismantled all my amphoras

[split nest]

3% at these heights is an average of 18 materials per DM step

[steep pilot]

So 9 without me using a PoUA?

I'm probably going to earn of PoUA from this but unsure if I'll use it right away

I think I'd rather stack it with Ornaversary if I want to do something crazy

[split nest]

I am doubling my use with an Olympian Coin for tower shards, but if I run all my DMs I will ascend quite a lot after this event ends

[steep pilot]

Maybe it'll keep you ahead of me in the regional rankings 😉

I'm right behind you

[split nest]

did you move up to 27? I moved up to 26 a couple days ago

[steep pilot]

No, when you moved up you put Dzzy between us

But all 3 of us are fairly close

[split nest]

A lot of the 20s in our region are fairly close tbh, I might end up going up to regional 20

My main concern atp is orn gain, I'm not familiar enough with how much you get to know if I'll be orn blocked

But I am slated to get 61k of every material on average

[steep pilot]

Orn blocks are the story of my life. I just don't enjoy orn farming

[split nest]

It'll just take

a bit of grinding

[steep pilot]

I mean in other MMOs that's a nice short grind

[split nest]

that's within 48 hours though

mid-work week

[steep pilot]

Good luck

[split nest]

that's also why I'm waiting until 5pm to start my grind

[jovial pelican]

Does Mnemosyne gear need to be godforged for a higher bonus on memory hunts or will level 1 gear do

[steep pilot]

Level 1 is fine

[split nest]

Only real reasons to level up the gear are defensive stats and adornment slots

[indigo urchin]

And towers....

[split nest]

Towers will want defensive stats and adornment slots 👍

[indigo urchin]

I get 100k from regular 50 Floor tower ang 16

[solid tundra]

100k what?

[split nest]

shards

[indigo urchin]

What defensive stats 😭

[split nest]

Ward

[solid tundra]

You don't get 100k shards just from mnem gear

[indigo urchin]

Karmic shards?

[solid tundra]

Still no

[indigo urchin]

I literally just got 100k early morning

[solid tundra]

With a coin?

[indigo urchin]

Nop

[solid tundra]

sus

[indigo urchin]

Coin made a Hardmode 120k tho

Incredible rewards from a distorted memory omg

[wraith zephyr]

Before this week event and undying proof.

My Max was 397-8 mats drop. But it never reach 400.

[solid tundra]

thats a cool lookin graph

[grave jungle]

took me a good second to figure out what I was looking at

[alpine vortex]

You're looking at the reason why we couldn't see a trend... Probably why it took you so long to figure out what you were looking at

[sonic karma]

this is the stuff i used to make in line rider