Crimson Festival (2026)

[onyx knot]

yeah I guess the hour resfresh isnt infinite... You also dont need to think when you do them

[pallid maple]

Hour refresh for tier 10 players with two concords

Those aren't the players NF is primarily worried about losing, those players are already invested

[onyx knot]

they worried about losing players? This is the first time they have done something like this and it seems to be very popular.

[pallid maple]

Did you click the link Tosik sent?

[onyx knot]

no, zero contex and didnt reply to me. Thought it was for someone else sorry.

But reading the link. Im not sure where odie would of got that info since this is the first pvp event. Most players love PVP. It should at least be on par with PVE in terms of rewards.

[open wave]

i wouldn't be suprised if there were a lot of clammering about a pvp specific event on other platforms outside of discord.

[marble osprey]

It’s a generalized statement based on feedback we’ve received outside of discord about anything PvP related - the arena campaign quest was a great example of this. It had something like a 20% drop off point

[onyx knot]

I get that concern. But this isn’t a mandatory quest, and I’m not asking for PvE to be replaced. I just think that if this is the first real PvP event, PvP should offer rewards on par with PvE so players can choose how they want to engage. Then you can look at the feedback after the event and see how it actually lands. Since PvE would still remain available, I don’t really see that as something that would drive players away.

[tribal olive]

Exactly my thoughts. Equal effort for different play styles and preferences, for equal rewards. No fomo either way.

But id rather have 50% progression rewards and 50% intangeable rewards instead

[onyx knot]

If it takes about an hour to get one scroll through PvP, while in that same hour I can run 10–20 dungeons at my OT and a WV with barely any effort, then PvP just doesn’t feel worth choosing. PvP takes more focus, more decision-making, and more actual play against live opponents.

PvE is faster, easier, and almost brain-off by comparison. That’s why I think PvP rewards should be closer, especially during a PvP event. Right now I’d like to play PvP more, but the super raid creates too much FOMO to justify it.

[odd stirrup]

I'm a little surprised the first player to touch BoF from the top down since the update is ??????🧐

[open wave]

I thought I saw Two Balls yesterday

[tribal olive]

And this is coming from an avid pvper who would play pvp at any opportunity

[onyx knot]

I have faith in you guys tho. The balance changes in BOF were amazing and changes are happening thats why I play this game.

[stray kayak]

I think the problem is past incentives locked progression behind PvP

We are saying we want to open up PvP as a progression lane

It doesn’t need anything that “forces” players to do content they don’t want to do

If anyone is familiar with guild wars2, there are items you can acquire through multiple forms of PvP and pve- same item, grinds in different lanes.

People who want to do more PvP but not lose out on pve materials are rewarded by how they spend their time

People who only want to do pve can ignore pvp entirely knowing they have access to the same event rewards

NF has been doing an incredible job over the last year reinventing and extending existing content in new ways the better serve the player base

now is the opportunity to give pvp and BoF the same treatment (that it deserves)

[tribal olive]

Well put ^

[frosty canopy]

Once you get rolling it’s a field day

[hollow adder]

To lend some credence to the good progress made, I'll say a bit. I'm someone who generally doesn't care about PVP, but is used to being forced into it for pve optimization (cough classic wow cough).

At event start I was grumpy about having to do it, but at least it was quick. After the change it got to a much better place, even if there are still maybe a few too many coin flips. I'm at least begrudgingly enjoying it now, mostly because of the silly dirt flinging in this topic when facing familiar players.

[marble osprey]

Again, generalized to add some insight into player psych. While this isn’t a mandatory quest we’re talking about, the optics of it can make it feel like a mandatory way to interface with the event if not done perfectly

[hollow adder]

On the flip side, I can see where those lacking stacks of gear to engage in a variety of strategies might still find it to be a pain. I feel cautiously optimistic that NF will probably get incentives to a good spot even with that.

[marble osprey]

“Oh, there’s a PvP part of the event”
Looks at rewards
“I have to do PvP to earn this stuff? I hate PvP. 0/10 event. Uninstall”

It’s really that quick

Silly anecdote, I know. But it happens and is something to always be cognizant of

[stray kayak]

i feel like you get that in some flavor for pve players too lol

[tribal olive]

I do this all the time for pve

So now what do we do

'pick your path' was well put by ensseric

[lyric helm]

Nothing is ever off the table, we don't operate that way.
Odie is completely ok to be cautious based on historic evidence, as he has a whole team of mouths to feed!

We're maaaaaybe getting a little bit too urgent here. Feedback is acknowledged, and we'll keep an eye on it

Pretty cool to have some stuff in BoF, yeah? Can now get scrolls, great win

[tribal olive]

100% we are trending

[hollow adder]

Not silly at all. Some people have just become jaded by being forced to do things they don't want to for the sake of optimization in various games... and PVP is one of the more common content branches that is guilty of this in other games.

[tribal olive]

Just expect us to keep trying to get to the point where the pvpers can finally be rewarded better for their time spent

Naturally people want to be rewarded accordingly for their efforts

[lyric helm]

Ok, fair enough.
Expect us to not change it before the long weekend is over for now - we'll be keeping an eye out though

Expectations should be set around this not changing super early

[marble osprey]

yeah, it’s Easter now. Don’t expect any more patches

[tribal olive]

Understood ill echo that one over the weekend as the discussion continues

[stray kayak]

i dont expect massive changes right now

i think its a bit of a strike while the feedback iron is hot scenario

and make sure these opinions are seen and heard

its only been...2 days

[marble osprey]

stop expecting minor ones too

[stray kayak]

plenty of time to collect data

[stray kayak]

okay bye

[marble osprey]

cya

[onyx knot]

Have a good easter guys!

[lyric helm]

3 solid patches inside the first few hours is unreal. Major props to Odie

Letting me completely dominate his time is well appreciated <3

[hollow adder]

Wait, Odie isn't setting up Samson to AI code and drop updates over easter?

[tribal olive]

I hope to see odie on seeker spec in bof in the near future

[stray kayak]

yeah true the rate of knocking down the list of items is chef kiss

[tribal olive]

Thanks Dangy and Odie for the attention and quick turnarounds. Revisit next week for sure

[sage schooner]

Just woke up and seen all the patches, looks good!

[stray kayak]

Support for BOF events 🥰

[violet coyote]

Used a Scroll of Crimson Chaos... Did I missed something, it only made the world crimson and apply debuf? No event spawn, none.

[hardy wagon]

Did you try killing the monsters that spawned in the world, to have new mobs spawn in?

[timid sparrow]

Anyone know what happened here? Game should have been done after my second attack but they survived with 1000 something hp. Happened twice now

[violet coyote]

Some, not all... I'm on it now.

[timid sparrow]

For context this happened vs a realmshifter too which shouldnt have any second chance etc

[tough jasper]

He recovered health. You can't deal more than 50% yourself for 2 turns so that amount he survived with was the healed HP.

[timid sparrow]

Oooooh i see

That is interesting

Hmm maybe its time to swap from dorado to base realm

[tough jasper]

If you have a Gilded Scarab Amulet, or any form of HP Regen, then use it for BoF.

Unless their follower or a DOT effect deals more damage than you recover, you will (maybe) always be able to survive the first two turns/rounds, even if you only heal 1 HP above 50% of your maximum.

[timid sparrow]

Ah i see awesome - do ashen rubys and stuff count towards this?

Actually wait does self healing (eg wisp) work for this too?

[sage schooner]

Some feedback after an hour of world farming with darkrift fragment / crimson chaos scroll post updates. The rate of event mobs definitely feels way nicer, not quite on par with horde dungeons but at least feels like a viable method of farming now. The double and triple atk/mag debuffs still feel overly punishing, especially as you start pumping up the anguish.

[tough jasper]

If it restores your HP, then it will help. You just need to keep above 50% of your max for 2 turns (or more against multiple NPCs or summoner players) and then the damage limit is lifted.

[timid sparrow]

What do you mean by more for summoners/ multiple npcs?

Also thanks for the insight - this is actually making pvp a lot more interesting and nuanced

[tough jasper]

Damage limit turns are based on the number of combatants present. In 1v1 it's 2 turns, 1v2 is 3 turns, etc.

[timid sparrow]

Oh nice i had no idea

[flat bluff]

@final skiff what a fight! Wp

I was a bit lucky there

[final skiff]

that was scary

nice build! Cactus goes crazy

[native cove]

Summoner, I hate them. Makes me confused with my turns.

Ain't no one doing math turns in PvP

[swift pulsar]

How do u guys kill someone with reraise

4 times 1 hp couldnt kill him

Cause of reraise

[final skiff]

status effects, or just kill them

the proc rate was nerfed in pvp, but DoTs should also do the trick

[swift pulsar]

I'll keep in mind, but he had cursed/poison and still didn't die

[final skiff]

hp regen % maybe?

or i'm possibly just misunderstanding how reraise works 💀

[tough jasper]

Either they had HP Regen that exceeded the DoT or they were a Realmshifter.

[swift pulsar]

Base deity actually

I fought him again just now, his amity actually was keeping him alive + reraise 10-15% Recover hp from critical hits

[tough jasper]

Then yeah, they healed more than the DoT on the turn after surviving via Reraise.

[swift pulsar]

What does reraise actually do, I haven't touch that build yet so I'm curious how it works

[tough jasper]

It might keep you alive with 1 HP

[final skiff]

basically a 2nd chance as a status, disappears upon proc

so it could be continuously reapplied, provided that it succeeds or somehow fades

[swift pulsar]

Ahhh thats why mimic keep reapplying it

[native cove]

Did the patch nerf delay strike?

[warped zinc]

Yes

[native cove]

Oh wAit, it's reduced.

[native cove]

@tough jasper I see what you did there

[sage schooner]

Kinda bullshit lmao. Turn 1 KO without even seeing a turn because pet bypasses 50% damage cap

[warped zinc]

That beo was so easy to win

[tough jasper]

Not when I get blocked every damn time

Then double tapped immediately after even with Tempered ↑ and ↑↑ on them

[warped zinc]

I had no issues

The pet deals max 10k dmg

[final skiff]

i had a bit of beast taming, it's just unfortunate that not all builds have that leeway to stack that stuff

my "lil bit of this lil bit of that" build worked fine against it 😂

no idea what i'm doing, but it's working. won't bother tweaking anytime soon

[warped zinc]

Well we basicly have gear with beasttaming for all classes

[sage schooner]

That's not even the point. Every other mechanic to turn 1 KO has been nerfed except this one

[tough jasper]

Put on what little Beast Taming stuff I can and now Mana Ray can't kill, and everything else gets blocked or misses.

[warped zinc]

But the point is that its working intented. 2 differend entities can do 50% dmg

Works samw way how party finesse works

[bright sluice]

give gilga a crack 😏

[tough jasper]

Except it's not a party, Odin.

[sage schooner]

Ok then let my class passives work as intended as well lmao

[final skiff]

it's so funny that it's also beo 😂
almost certainly will be nerfed soon

[warped zinc]

But its still 2 differend actions

[tough jasper]

I just might have to.

[final skiff]

almost identical to the reason why avidity should not (and does not) work on turn 1. It's an RNG for a potential t1 kill regardless of opponents' actions

[warped zinc]

Same thing is possible with summoner

[warped zinc]

But removing follower action would kill beoA

[tough jasper]

You can at least Blind/Sleep the summons. Can't do much about a follower or the person hiding behind it.

[sage schooner]

That's the point mate. One class gets the benefit of 2 turns while every other way to get 2 turns including core class passives are nerfed.

[warped zinc]

All classes have access to 2 turns

Player action+pet action

[tough jasper]

Not if we die turn one from follower + player. Stop being obtuse.

[final skiff]

I would probably cap the total damage from the player + follower + summons to 50-75% of max HP

[warped zinc]

And dont forget that if you have ward healing you survive

[sage schooner]

If pet can bypass 50% damage cap turn 1 then give me back avidity

[warped zinc]

So you want 4 actions when this pet class gets 2

Sounds fair

[sage schooner]

You gotta be trolling mate

[warped zinc]

All classes have 1 own and 1 pet action. Its no differend from others. Beo just has a strong pet bc thats its fking identity

[sage schooner]

IDK how you can see a turn one KO like I posted above and say that's balanced meanwhile every other classes identity is nerfed into the ground for the first 2 turns

[warped zinc]

If you want stronger pet you can go all in on pet stats if you like that kind of stuff...

[swift pulsar]

I'm glad I'm not the only one

[warped zinc]

Where is your ward dmg healing?

Thats the best tool to survive

[final skiff]

i'm only going to make the claim that any way to win on turn 1 (in BoF live 1v1 pvp) should not exist, regardless of class.
Players should always get at least some chance to act to improve their odds of winning.

Imo, delay strike shouldn't even work on turn 1 either

[bright sluice]

ds3 was my solution to this, but even that was rng lol

[native cove]

Delay strike with pet action, 4 turns in a row.

Turn 1

Most of my matches, I die at turn 3 with other class.
But Beo consistently kills me at turn 1.

The only way I don't die turn 1, is when rng lucky Vicky goddess is with me.

[warped zinc]

In theoretically. If beos pet actions got removed turn 1-2. What would beo do the first 2 turns? Wouldnt that make other classes much better bc they can keep their pets in action. Giving ward or offencive power for free while beo waits 2 fkn turns to even do its thing

Beo is the pet class

[sage schooner]

No one is saying remove pet actions. Just combine player and pet damage into one damage cap

[final skiff]

i would be rather upset if that were the balancing change...

[warped zinc]

Pet is the main weapon for beo

[final skiff]

.

[tough jasper]

Figure it out like everyone else has to

[final skiff]

(i only suggest potentially balancing >50% because it would make it possible to counter HP % regen to some degree, and i'm all for build diversity)

[warped zinc]

Surely that would not affect my build at all. I would still 1 turn kill even if pet+player dmg was capped to 50-75%

[final skiff]

via status damage?

[warped zinc]

If you have 25k hp and i hit for 5k and pet follows with 15k + and 8k dot its still 1 turn kill. Basicly if the player loses turn

The death just happens on the opponents turn

[sage schooner]

Yeah I mean your status build is nasty but even that still feels more fair than turn 1 KO without even a look at a turn

[native cove]

I was killed when I'm checking at the logs to see the class.

[sage schooner]

If you don't make your move fast enough the game auto plays for you

[plain willow]

yeah nah bruh nerf that beo bs man, every other class's t1 kill was removed, beo's should too

[warped zinc]

I mean if you are paralyzed,frozen,sleeping,cursed,poisoned,burning, rot,blight bleeding and toxic. And with about 6k hp left due the player+pet action. I would know i wont see a second action from me or the opponent.

[native cove]

Less than 5s.

[plain willow]

i part main beo and even i think thats stupid

[final skiff]

well that's pretty much the point being made for the past day, i think we get it 😂

i think the issue here is how it would most fairly get nerfed

[plain willow]

defo just check if damage < 50% max hp after each damage source and cap it if it goes over it

[final skiff]

statuses complicate it quite a bit, especially considering the existance of despair from acolyte, status builds, etc

[plain willow]

i mean like... dots cant do 50% in a turn guaranteed, so you'd still be alive after turn 1 + your action

[warped zinc]

You can easily do a 50% hp from statuses

[final skiff]

lol

[native cove]

It should cap for all sources on turn 1-2 includes status damage, extra turn damage, CD, double damage, pet damage.

But house rules only applies to player.

[warped zinc]

Curse and toxic alone are 20%

[final skiff]

woah that's a lot of stuff

[plain willow]

cool then lets cap the status damage alongside it! everything caps at 50% total

[warped zinc]

Yeah sounds awesome solution

[final skiff]

i'm pretty sure double casts are already counted for iirc, CD is disabled for turns 1 and 2

[plain willow]

or if were feeling daring... just turn damage off for turns 1 and 2 and see what happens turn 3

if the rules are in place specifically to avoid t1 kills then lets get rid of all t1 kills

simple as

[native cove]

Yugioh agress

[warped zinc]

But turn 1 can be countered via healing. And statuses proc on your turn. So its not on opponents turn anymore.

[plain willow]

it is the second half of turn 1

[native cove]

U mean one items that does that?

[plain willow]

nobody should be able to die turn 1 full stop

[warped zinc]

Rhada gear, themis adorn, amity

[plain willow]

on the enemies turn on your turn on either side either way, no way should you die

[warped zinc]

Oh god

[tough jasper]

Yeah that's the odd thing, Doublecast damage has never exceeded the limit, so I'm not sure why none of this stuff was capped the same way from day 1.

[plain willow]

not enough players in bof before to point them out 💀

[final skiff]

exactly, i'm pretty sure an event being centered around this sort of thing definitely brought attention to it

[warped zinc]

Sure lets just flip a coin each time to decide who wins. No need to gear up or deal dmg

[tough jasper]

If anything, I would've thought summon damage would be the issue since they are literally counted as a separate party member. Beo and follower are conjoined twins.

[sage schooner]

I haven't encountered a turn 1 KO from summoner yet

[warped zinc]

What stops you from using tamer+ osiris stuff to boost pet

[plain willow]

i think the 1 summon + piddly ah damage from summoners usually settles that but they fall under the same scrutiny as beo + pet

[sage schooner]

YEah why don't we all just switch to Beo while we're at it and give up our classes entirely

[warped zinc]

Deal

[plain willow]

i love gearing specifically to counter the one or two ways to instakill you without a chance to fight back! sure is a diverse build meta

[native cove]

I have heal regen, still kills me.
Rhada gear is event gears. So only left themis.

[tough jasper]

I mean I guess I can wear wardless Fey Chimera gear...gee, what else does Mage get with any Follower bonuses...?

Oh! +1 Follower Act on Ophion gear

[warped zinc]

We have amity with ward dmg healing too

[tough jasper]

Arisen Feral Staff

[warped zinc]

The mage path of fomorian

The king set which is also bis for statuses

[tough jasper]

Oh you mean the gear with negative Defense

That gear?

[warped zinc]

And it gives beast taming

[native cove]

Oh wait, I don't have ward as a heretic....

[tough jasper]

Okay, sure. Let me just wear that while a melee follower eats me alive.

Or like, anything with a hybrid skill like Penguin or Phoenix.

Or the Beo themselves

[warped zinc]

Beasttaming is flat dmg nerf

[native cove]

I just realize I don't have ward..... Damn it....

[warped zinc]

Ward up

[final skiff]

🤯

[warped zinc]

Menja gear has okay stats

[native cove]

I can't, I need to charge my flask.

[tough jasper]

Need them to do lethal damage too

[warped zinc]

Then if you want to rely on 1 playstyle. You cant win every build

[tough jasper]

You're a waste of time.

Good night, y'all.

[warped zinc]

Just like statuses or pet builds cant win every build

[plain willow]

https://klipy.com/gifs/sealyx-naked-gun

[native cove]

I tried both.

With heretic

[plain willow]

like talking to a wall i stg

[warped zinc]

I cant expect much from heretics.

All builds have their wall counters literally

[sage schooner]

Bro is telling us not to expect to win every matchup if we're relying on 1 build, while telling us to rely on 1 build to counter the 1 build that can still 1 turn KO, which makes us weaker against every other build lmao. Bro is cooked

[native cove]

Sad life as a heretic, get killed by CD, then avidity, before that is SS and wards.

Now got nerf and get killed by pets.

[final skiff]

i couldn't really follow the conversation, but we should still (as always) just keep it respectful and productive .-. (not blaming anyone !)

[warped zinc]

We do get killed by cd aswell. We also do get killed by any that uses taming or has even okay dex bc pet and beo dex is horrible

I lose to dorado 60% of the time bc i or my pet just cant land a hit

HereC is also though one for the same reason

[native cove]

My screen shot says otherwise.

[warped zinc]

How much dex do you have

[final skiff]

how do fixed miss chance skills/spells interact with mystic feather / dorado / mana feather?

[native cove]

Technically none. Because I need to buff my damage.

[warped zinc]

There is your issue then

[sage schooner]

Fixed miss chance skills bypass evasion, so they're not affected by mystic feather/dorado

[native cove]

Then no way I can win anyone.

[warped zinc]

Getting some dex def cribbles beos.

[native cove]

Time to sacrifice all my def/res for Dex!

[final skiff]

tbf, the need to build dex is slightly diminished for heretic builds involving either ray since they're guaranteed hits.
Only thing i could potentially suggest is using turul feathers if slots allow, but i'm also not anywhere as experienced with that class

[native cove]

And still die to turn 1 pet hit.

[sage schooner]

Look on the bright side, you don't need def/res if you're dying on turn 1 anyway lol

[warped zinc]

This happens alot

[native cove]

U need to up your Dex too!

[warped zinc]

Dex does not affect pets

Unless having that bond for them

[native cove]

Use flash!

[warped zinc]

Or perfect shot. Yes it works. But still the thing is that my main weapon misses alot

[final skiff]

the dodge is a result of the dorado passive as well, so it's better to try your luck with accuracy % (which afaik does not slot into his build easily)

[native cove]

Then change better weapon. There's a lot of weapon that gives Dex and adorn it too.

Oh ya accuracy gears too

[warped zinc]

Main weapon( pet)

The thing is that i accept that i miss alot vs high dex classes. The other thing is that you dont accept that you get hit almost 100% bc you dont want to up your dex to protect vs pets

[native cove]

Buff your pet dex

[native cove]

Missing while doing something? I'm ok with it.

Dying while looking at logs. I ain't ok.

[warped zinc]

I think i keep my stundart to just remove enemy dex

[warped zinc]

With enough dex you would see constant missing from beos

[sage schooner]

RS should be wearing stun immunity anyway so if you get em with that they probs deserve it lol

[warped zinc]

Beo is very weak vs dex classes.

[native cove]

Buff your pet dex.

What's your pet dex at?

[warped zinc]

500?

[native cove]

Damnnn that's low.

You need better gears.

[warped zinc]

As i said there is no way to boost pet dex without a bond

Only raw pet stats do

And my gear do give those already

With my build and als my pet has 643 dex. In bof its even lower

[native cove]

I'm higher than that. And I still get hit all the time.
750.

[final skiff]

100 dex isn't a very large difference

[warped zinc]

That would mean we are almost equal at hit rate

[native cove]

Sadly, if I change anything, I will die to literally everything and I don't have enough damage to kill.

Beo is just one of the many issues.
I can't kill anything that have 150k+ ward mammoth.
I can't use other class gears except thief.
I die to status effect.
I die to CA too.

[swift pulsar]

😭

Odin is enough not u too lemon 😆

[warped zinc]

Hi zild

[final skiff]

oh is it my statuses 😂 im sorry!

i've gotta check up on guild shops, really waiting on a greater soul stock lol

have fun without me 😭

[warped zinc]

I have only 4m gold anymore

[swift pulsar]

I was laughing cause of the statuses🤣

[final skiff]

(joking, i'm usually not in bof for very long at any given time)

[warped zinc]

I should go and farm the tokens ;-;

[swift pulsar]

Hi Odin, ur status effects made me stop BoF for a while didn't wanna encounter you lmao🤣

[warped zinc]

Im sorry

[swift pulsar]

🙇

[warped zinc]

Ita funny to see some familiar names fall for my trap

Best one is def @forest sphinx i still think hes my rival

[native cove]

Stop killing me while I'm looking at overview/log

Damn it........

[swift pulsar]

okiess boss

[native cove]

My reraise failed me.

[swift pulsar]

My reraise is from temu won't work sometimes 🗿

[warped zinc]

Timber is such a good boy

[native cove]

For the Canadian!

[swift pulsar]

I'm out

[warped zinc]

[swift pulsar]

💀

[warped zinc]

I knew you were still there

[swift pulsar]

I'll hide for a while

[swift pulsar]

This is why I avoid u I can't move 😂

[timid sparrow]

Does hp/ward regen work for bof? I put a heart of themis on my weapon but wasnt getting any hp even tho ward was defs taking hits

[warped zinc]

Yoshi that was bit tough one

So many immunities

@dusty lagoon ngl i was bit lucky

[timid sparrow]

Turn 1 strikes of ursa?

[warped zinc]

Yup

[timid sparrow]

No need to defend anymore?

[warped zinc]

Needs turn reduction adorns

Sameway how quickcast ultima works

[timid sparrow]

There are turn reduction adorns?

[warped zinc]

For celestial weapons

[timid sparrow]

Ah i see

[native cove]

Welcome to the grind!

[timid sparrow]

I been addicted man its not good haha

But learning a lot so its cool

My thesis and sleep are suffering for it tho 😭

[warped zinc]

Yoshi is the hardest to beat fr

[native cove]

Why I can still act with all those status effect.... @warped zinc

[warped zinc]

Frozen 30% and stunned 50% para maybe 20% or 25%. Blight was 25%

Toxic no longer has its 10% turn stop

So there is def a chance

Also zild is still around

Ive seen you atleast 2 times

And yoshi like 4 times

I died to him once ;-;

I used my last tokens again and its funny that it was zild who i found

[swift pulsar]

Why me

[dusty lagoon]

wall of statuses

not with me

[warped zinc]

With you i have to do bit differend xD

When i find you i have to think a sec to remember what you were not immune to

There was not many

Blight was 1 i think

[dusty lagoon]

yeah that's when i gotta pray for the sphinx kit to cleanse

[warped zinc]

Tbh most effective way to deal with you was to hit --att and pray for aaru to follow with miasma or dmg--

[dusty lagoon]

gotta be honest, i didn't know sphinx kit delay strike worked for players. It's so god damn funny when it happens

[warped zinc]

Yea its nice one

[royal sapphire]

Manticore Head new meta

[native cove]

Zild changing classes already.

@warped zinc what's oceanus%

[hidden jackal]

@swift pulsar 😩

[swift pulsar]

I've lost count how many times we've encountered

[swift pulsar]

Trying builds of people who nuked me

[native cove]

Don't copy me, I get nuked by Beo.

[swift pulsar]

That's it for me

Got my aura

[native cove]

Come join the tournament!

[hidden jackal]

Want to meet beo more

[regal tangle]

Not that i dont love the pvp talk but in regards to the festival as a whole:

Cost of stuff for crimson proofs of sparing feels overly high. (outside of the aura, i feel its fine)

20 proofs for 1 summoning scroll / 60 proofs for a super scroll specifically. At 20/60 wins, thats 100/300 arena tokens, and thats if your at 100% win rate. For the time it takes to farm 100/300 arena tokens i can make 20+ scrolls just farming dungeons/world spawns.

Assuming 100% drop rate of arena tokens/essence. 10 kills = 1 scroll or 2/20 proofs (again assuming 100% win rate, which isnt realistic). And i can effectively get 3x scrolls at the same time farming dungeons.

I think maybe 5 -10 proofs per regular scroll is more in line with the time/ reward aspect

[icy fog]

just to nuke my poor beo ass 😭

[warped zinc]

I think oceanus rune is also 30%

[warped zinc]

Why not just nuke steve instead

[gloomy kite]

Your really have to farm arena tokens? The numbers would even be substantially higher if I would buy tokens in grand market 🤔

[frosty canopy]

I imagine it’s an issue particularly for folks on the leaderboard

At 5 tokens/match and the rate that you level in bof… ouch

[sage schooner]

Just a small piece of feedback, the hitbox on Centaurus is probably way too small compared to the sprite. Unless you click perfectly in the middle of his sprite you end up selecting raids that are behind him.

[icy fog]

deity go brrr when low hp, beo sad

[tribal olive]

Hard to parse through all of this but taking some notes on outstanding BoF issues

@sage schooner yeah the beo turn 1 stuff sucks but a decent ward/hp build they usually can't kill you. Odie mentioned that would be hard to fix so he didnt get around to it.

Also yeah the delay strike stuff and reraise were nerfed. I personally think reraise is nowhere near the levels it needs to be still. Think it went from 80% to 50%, probably should be 25% for pvp.

Ive been tracking the BoF cheese in a list for months. Heres the current list -

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1489270856889794741

[regal tangle]

The other super cheesy issues is the 2nd chance /pet protect/ parapet being able to fire constantly.

Second chance firing 10x in a row
Pet protection firing 30+ times in a row
Parapet is the only one I don't see firing off multiple times in a row.

Rereaise, parapet, pet protect, and 2nd chance all need to have a cool down of some sort.

[torn wind]

and ofc all event chat is pvp 🙁

[frosty canopy]

nothing is stopping you from bringing up a non-pvp topic

folks always talk about balance issues for new content in length

[tribal olive]

Without reraise all of that stuff was fine tbh

[flat bluff]

If 50% cap on both first turns gets ever implemented, that means if enemy has hp regen and you trigger avidity 10 times (on 2nd turn), you still deal 0 dmg after reaching 50%, right?

[warped zinc]

Yup

That is what they want

[native cove]

Isn't that already implemented when avidity can trigger on turn 1?
If you start first, and trigger avidity at turn1, the next 3 turns still cap at 50%, but you still can kill your opponent at 50% cap.

After patch/nerf,
If you start first now, then you trigger avidity at turn 2, your next turn damage still cap at 50%.
The turn after is 100%.

What other proposed is cap damage that's not only from the player.
Eg, summons, CD, followers, CA,

[stray kayak]

Not so hot take of the day: remove reraise from pvp

[round wave]

remove reraise from sandals entirely

it was good when it was on cleric ankh

not overpowered

but good for support

[flat bluff]

avidity cannot trigger on turn 1. What i was wondering is that there are 2 ways to "fix" the issue:

1. Just leave everything how it is but count pet's dmg into that 50% cap (together with player). This only fixes interaction with follower and not with delay strike / other turn manipulations.
2. Change the rule to "Until you perform your 1st and 2nd turn - you cannot receive more than 50% dmg of your max health".

[native cove]

Just giving example before nerf.

Ya the house rules on 50% cap should be at your second point.

But I think the turn is based on foresight.

[onyx knot]

I do think we need to be better about nerfing everything tho.... Its going to make it so vanilla it wont be fun.

[misty gate]

New to the game, am I missing something about a Scroll of Chaos? My quest Lerna's Chaos doesn't complete when I use a Scroll of Crimson Chaos. Are they different items?

[flat bluff]

My 2nd point seems to be pretty variative. You could still invest in turn manipulation, but it will only give you more buffs / chances to debuff

[round wave]

if we nerf or adjust so nothing is underpowered but not overpowered then it wouldn't make vanilla unfun (tho that's a difficult task)

[flat bluff]

you first need to use normal scroll of chaos. Later it will ask you to use that special scroll

[misty gate]

Thank you, tried searching for anything on it and all I found was the Crimson version of the scroll

[formal sonnet]

Should just make player + pet cap 50% combined turn 1/2

[native cove]

Welcome to the grind.

[flat bluff]

delay strike 3 and you can still be killed without performing turns

with a follower

[formal sonnet]

Im saying no matter what the dmg is. Player an pet total cant go above 50%

as if they were same

[native cove]

Especially if you use a pet with delay strike too.

[flat bluff]

yeah, but that only fixes one of many unfair issues

[formal sonnet]

Fix em one at a time.

[hollow adder]

I think it'd be fine if combined player+follower damage got capped to ~60% on turn 1. Still turn 2 death worry, but now it has some manner of niche against ward HP recovery passive.

Since the trend has been to slow down all manner of turn 1 bullshit, that shouldn't be an exception.

[formal sonnet]

Turn 1 (player + pet dmg) = 50%

[native cove]

Follower damage should be cap just like player.

[native cove]

Wow that's a no no no

[flat bluff]

this will lead to shifting meta 1 at a time to next best option from the meta list

[native cove]

Player + Pet damage = 50%?
I would just quit the class for pvp.

[hollow adder]

The reason I'm saying that it can be more than 50% is because it eliminates hybrid player/follower damage style if they share the cap. Give it some marginal difference so that there is a reason for or against using it.

[flat bluff]

if that gets implemented you could just use delay strike 3 as 1st move and still kill turn 1 in some cases

[sharp needle]

Can someone please explain why is this even a discussion? There are strict house rules and only 1 class can fully bypass it
What's there to discuss?

Genuine question

[round wave]

imagine if the 50% hp rule wasn't limited to 2 turns

[native cove]

Your solution is way better but seriously, I don't know how Orna turn works. Based on what I know, it have something to do with foresight. So it might be harder to implement.

[round wave]

and avidity was completely disabled

[flat bluff]

to not shift everything 1 by 1 to next best solution but to come up with a balanced alternative

[sharp needle]

Yeah, all classes now can't bypass it, only Beo can. So that's the last fix at least for this issue

[hollow adder]

There is always 100 ways to implement nerfs. Smart implementations open up variety without restricting something completely.

[flat bluff]

ds3 will still be able to kill turn 1

[karmic linden]

“Beo has been deleted”

Done

[round wave]

actually if multiple turn skill /passive were disabled then it would be lot more interesting

[sharp needle]

Pls make a #💡│suggestions I'll, upvote and ask all friends to do so

[round wave]

anything against beo and deity has my votes

[native cove]

That's classism.

[round wave]

I'm classist

[keen parrot]

So live PvP just sucks. The game has no balance and the patches are making it so much worse.

[hollow adder]

The frustration is valid, given that one of those classes didn't get reached with fixes before easter weekend.

[native cove]

?????

[keen parrot]

It wouldn't have mattered

[round wave]

i agree

it's all about high mag or atk (maybe dex) to do ton of damage that's it

[keen parrot]

Action economy is nearly everything. Last patches remove action economy from some but left it for others.

[round wave]

some class have obvious advantage

[round wave]

I'm joking around not frustrated 🫣

[keen parrot]

That is still not balanced. It is still not fun.

[native cove]

Actually with ward build not much in the pool, we don't really need high DMG.

[hollow adder]

You are joking, but there are sentiments I'm seeing here and there that are definitely not sadly.

[round wave]

hmm true

[keen parrot]

And yes, the classes were not balanced for action economy going in either.

[tribal olive]

Ive been pushing for either this or even just 25% rate

[round wave]

i hate bof just because of status resistance through passive, crit adorns and bof rules make them negligible

and 2 turn 50% hp rule doesn't help dot either

i thought i will get to enjoy status finally

[keen parrot]

Dots are still a tie breaker

[round wave]

and class like Beo with high act rate followers can kill me even after 2 temper debuff

[native cove]

You need to ask @warped zinc for status effect build.

[keen parrot]

They (beo) can kill turn 1 currently

[round wave]

as much as i want to i like to research status on my own

[keen parrot]

They could before the patches

[round wave]

it's way more fun

[native cove]

Not if you have higher foresight!

[hollow adder]

Temper isn't meant to fight Beo/BeoA; it's meant to fight non-Beos that rely on follower act, or Beos that use Jord (which drops their follower act into a range temper can affect).

[round wave]

because it's not boring as high stat go brr

[keen parrot]

They still can. They have action economy

[round wave]

but temper is still one of best status to go against beos

[keen parrot]

You go first, unless your are also playing beo, they can still kill by the end of their first turn

[round wave]

if i don't use it my probability of winning is 0

with temper it's 40%(ig)

[hollow adder]

Temper isn't meant to shut off pets in all scenarios.

If it was, follower beo wouldn't exist in pvp.

You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by using it against all Beos.

I've found its best use to try and shut off mammoths or gilged kehpers so far (at least not when hitting into steadfast )

[round wave]

hmm

[hollow adder]

Also, as a niche note: even against Beos it is effective against followers that have few skills, such as mammon acolyte.

[keen parrot]

If they are going to turn off extra actions for the first two turns. Turn pet action off too.

[hollow adder]

But for followers with 5+ skills that turns into a coin flip.

[keen parrot]

Or put in an option for no action to let the pet act instead.

[round wave]

i want that multiple turn skill should just be ineffective in bof while avidity is heavily nerfed

and follower should get some rule to restrict them

summoner is well restricted but i really don't see deity and beo getting any restrictions in bof

[keen parrot]

Would be nice. But I doubt it would fix much. The classes aren't really balanced for PVP.

[hollow adder]

It's less that summoner is well restricted, and more that it's completely gutted so that summoners can actually take damage.

[round wave]

yup classes are very unbalanced (even outside pvp)

[keen parrot]

The rules will nearly always favor one or another class.

[round wave]

just use horde summon and you can get all 5 summon (tho 4 will be close to useless)

[keen parrot]

Outside is true but honestly that has less impact.

[hollow adder]

It's not that. Summon protect is suppressed heavily in any pvp (by necessity) and there is basically no reasonable way to compensate summoners for it.

[round wave]

deity and beo are overpowered outside pvp and perform good in many contents (while some class can only perform good in 1 or 2 content)

[round wave]

ik and that's because of prime summoner

that was unkillable

because of summon protection

[stray kayak]

frankly I dont mind it from the pet because its rng, the bad combo is sandals + mimic; but I would consider just not having the skill at all either.

[keen parrot]

Yeah, but that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game. I like playing my class but I splash others. I like options. Live PvP is different.

[tribal olive]

Yeah i flagged it as soon as it was released

But here we are lol

[hollow adder]

I've been running it on Kheper pet, it is sometimes weirdly consistent but most of the time my kheper is throwing pocket sand

[tribal olive]

Extra second chance because one wasnt enough 🤦‍♂️

[stray kayak]

i dont mind the beo + follower attack turn one if it respected the hp windows.

[round wave]

True

[round wave]

osiris sandals feels like cancer

[warped zinc]

Double temper nukes beo pets btw

[keen parrot]

Sure if the total damage done was limited to 50%. Sure

[round wave]

second chance passive scream skill issue

[tribal olive]

Its easier to counter than the rest honestly but also its the hardest to fix according to odie. Its still similar to gursa CD abuse so i dont see any reason why it shouldnt be treated the same

[round wave]

now there are 2 Second chance lol

[hollow adder]

Are you telling me that the temper debuff from each ability is a different, non-stacking debuff?

[warped zinc]

There is temper+ and ++

[round wave]

there are 2 temper (that's all i know)

[warped zinc]

They stack

[hollow adder]

Oh, I completely forgot the first level abilities have a smaller debuff.

[round wave]

with both combined i can make beo very weak

[warped zinc]

I use those vs beos alot

[round wave]

enough to win sometimes

[warped zinc]

Their pet becomes useless

[round wave]

@warped zinc you use pistachio adorn for status build?

[keen parrot]

Live PvP should be replaced by a random number generator. Highest wins.

[warped zinc]

Armor or weapon?

[round wave]

we can adorn weapon with pistachio!!?

[warped zinc]

No but what does it do

[round wave]

it has 3% debuff duration

and it's description states that we can heal from debuffs

tho i never experienced it

[warped zinc]

I belive its basicly baguette adorn

[round wave]

as far as I've noticed this adorn improve my status build significantly

[warped zinc]

Well i dont need duration

I have enough of it

[round wave]

i wonder which 1h weapon is good for status summoner (aside from gorgon staff and arisen genius)

[round wave]

formoria gear?

[warped zinc]

Fomorian king with manticore eyes to min max beasttaming

Im basicly immune to pets/summons

[round wave]

beast taming affect summon protection?

and summon act rate /ai

[warped zinc]

No

It affects the dmg you take from summons and pets

[round wave]

oo

[warped zinc]

Around 96% dmg reduction from my full set

[round wave]

cool

[karmic linden]

Second chance was already super game warping, no idea why another instance of the same thing got implemented

[round wave]

unrelated to this thread motive but buff status

[warped zinc]

Un nerf toxic

[round wave]

second chance was already a bad passive(because it's uninteresting af) now we have another second chance through gear

[round wave]

buff underpowered status like drenched

and other

[stray kayak]

i think they just "turned off" CD for those turns. its harder to do this with pet AI I guess or i think part of it is figuring out the "how" they want to solve it

[forest sphinx]

It's funny because at least half the people I'm matching against are using it xd

Even after the nerf

[tribal olive]

Im no programmer but im sure theres some code logic to saying dont deal more than 50% of the other players hp before they act again

Which would cap all of this cheese at once

[round wave]

reraise being very accessible is the main problem nobody cared about it when it was only accessible through cleric ankh (aside from summoner endless ig)

[tribal olive]

Some people prefer to grind as quickly as possible with known stuff rather than have fun along the journey creating unique builds. Always will be this way across all games. And theres literally a list of all of the leftover cheese available for everyone on discord to see so why not use it until it gets patched

[round wave]

ever since we got osiris sandals reraise has been a issue

[forest sphinx]

No yeah, just talking about how cracked it still is

That even after the nerfs it remains one of the most popular strats

[keen parrot]

Status pvp sound miserable

[tribal olive]

Its literally a second second chance yeah

[keen parrot]

And still would be unbalanced

[tribal olive]

It should be gone or max ~25%

[karmic linden]

Gone tbh

[tribal olive]

~25% was me compromising lol my vote is definitely get rid of it

[round wave]

it is

it's worse than i expected

way too easily countered

then bof rule nerf it too

[round wave]

gone

from osiris sandals

[dusty lagoon]

odie did acknowledge reraise for pvp, im somewhat confused why pve is left out. immortality should've never been a status effect

[round wave]

yup

2nd second chance through gear already sound unbalanced

[keen parrot]

It shouldn't proc any more than second chance... And probably only be 25% max in all content

[warped zinc]

More importantly when do we actually get to use status effects at pve like raiding. ( i dont count stasis cheesing in this )

[keen parrot]

With deminishing returns on reprocs

[warped zinc]

But actual dot raiding

[tribal olive]

Yeah ill second that hes definitely aware of it hence why it got a nerf but ultimately it was going to be bad for PvP in literally any form from the start

I wish we could just rip the bandaid and eliminate it

[round wave]

vote for immunity break so we can finally do that

immunity break is really needed to make status build feel useful

because everything has immunity

as tier progress

[warped zinc]

Yup

[round wave]

ppl need to understand that not every status is threatening like statis, stun or blind

[keen parrot]

Dot pvp sounds annoying and boring for both sides.

It will suffer the same problem that defend pvp has... It drags things out needlessly and won't be fun

[round wave]

dot user find it fun not boring

and you can use starstruck if it's too slow for you

[keen parrot]

75% defence buff amities need a massive reduction too.

[warped zinc]

I think statuses and immunities need to be bot reworked into something like status stack mechanic and flat % resistance that also affects fade rate etc

[warped zinc]

Slow? Lol you can turn 1 kill ppl with dot build

[keen parrot]

Then it doesn't need to be buffed

Sounds like it should be nerfed then

[round wave]

status resistance is really rewarded if you think about it - most crit adorn (used in many builds) have status resistance and classes have inbuilt status resistance through passive too

so status is underpowered in both pvp and pve

[round wave]

ppl don't have 100k health usually

one shot with dot is not very easy

but you can do that if you maximize effect damage

or status damage

[warped zinc]

Yea it requires that they do not have immunities to work

[round wave]

i doono i focus on immobilize status

[round wave]

immunity that's very easy to get and they might have unintentionally lol

[warped zinc]

Yup

[keen parrot]

Yes but no build should be Universally effective against everything.

[round wave]

status is effective in nothing rn lol

raids - no
horde - no
pvp - no (if opponent prepares)

[warped zinc]

In what world you think its effective vs everything

Its only effective if opponent is foolish enough to ignore that small threath

[keen parrot]

That statement wasnt directed at dot builds alone

[round wave]

i would understand if status was good in early game but that's not the case too (because it's unaccessible)

[round wave]

i see

[forest sphinx]

Just went against someone who was saved 3 times by reraise xd. Not only 50% like SC, but it can also proc unlimited times.

While having DoTs on them, obv

[warped zinc]

Reraise is kinda easy to counter

[forest sphinx]

As long as they keep healing there's nothing you can do

Only pet or summon damage, if smth

[keen parrot]

Yep it is a problem.... They should remove it from PvP

[warped zinc]

I have not lost a single match to reraise user in bof

[round wave]

just get more status damage

simple?

[forest sphinx]

It doesn't matter, it was a BeoH so they had recharge, and they outhealed the DoTs, which isn't difficult

Burning plus poison

[hollow adder]

If you aren't dex dominated, you can try finishing them off with a temper ability.

[round wave]

no doubt they were overhealing

[warped zinc]

If he can move sure

[round wave]

get cursed

and petrify

ez

[hollow adder]

Oh BeoH, yeah you can land that.

[round wave]

cursed from spinal shard

[warped zinc]

Frozen+stun works also

[round wave]

petrify through bag of tricks and gorgon staff

[hollow adder]

What about blighting?

[warped zinc]

Or just use aaru curse

[hollow adder]

That's hard to fit into some setups.

[forest sphinx]

Yeah, I'll also doom them, just in case

Wtf is this advice

[warped zinc]

I mean aaru curse is valid

It blocks healing and deals dmg

[forest sphinx]

Not talking about yours, but in general

Someone shouldn't be able to get 3 reraise procs in a single match

[hollow adder]

You play to your outs or you allow yourself to be dominated.

[warped zinc]

The thing is you should not allow reraise to be casted or utilized

[forest sphinx]

Don't get me wrong, I can counter it most of the time, but sometimes it's just too much

[keen parrot]

Reraise of available in pvp should be 1 and done

[forest sphinx]

I lost that one because my AD didn't want to use an attack and I couldn't end them myself since it was a single hit, and they kept getting revived

[hollow adder]

I'm not going to disagree overall because I'm also grumpy about too many coin flips... but if there is something extra you can include to raise your chances of surviving, you do it.

[forest sphinx]

I've already done that, I'm not even going against reraise as a whole here, just the amount of times it can proc

[formal sonnet]

Make pets take same turns we do to cast spells? Then reraise or db would be less effective

[warped zinc]

And beo would be useless

Yes lets do that

Imagine how awfull eos would be at that point

[keen parrot]

Lol

[hollow adder]

Taking a sledgehammer to the entire class is not the right answer. And I'm saying that as someone who is saying DB spam needs to be reigned in.

[formal sonnet]

Im not saying that. Just providing suggestions.

[shut tinsel]

To whom it may concern. The crimson scroll still feels very bad to use. Starting with t.atk down feels terrible and the event mobs don't spawn enough to make it worth using

[hollow adder]

Making followers take the requisite turns to cast is taking a sledgehammer to the entire class.

full stop.

[forest sphinx]

As I’m saying, reraise is easy to counter, but the moment your pet or summon fails to finish them you’re just done for, since it can proc infinitely the moment they get lucky with the 50% chances

[formal sonnet]

Feels the same as normal world farm

[onyx knot]

They are not making any changes till after the weekend guys so dont expect much till then

[shut tinsel]

But with unnecessary debuffs

[warped zinc]

Imagine eos spending multiple turns to summon 2k hp griffin that gets oneshotted instantly by training cactus

Ah that would be nice

[formal sonnet]

If it increased despair proofs id deal with the malus

[shut tinsel]

True. It's mostly just feels bad to use atm. Dungeon farming with ruairc is much better atm for the event

[keen parrot]

No, they can be the exception

Class feature like dual cast, you passively help your pet cast faster. Helps beo doesn't help everyone else.

[hollow adder]

You went second, hit into a setup that would have been saved by ward hp recovery twice even if he didn't reraise and then died. This is hardly a reraise issue.

[hollow adder]

You have just suggested nerfing the ever-loving crap out of every other class.

[forest sphinx]

Hmmm?

Again, I'm not going against the mechanic itself (although it should be gone)

My main issue is how it can proc infinitely

[hollow adder]

I'm saying you need to rethink your approach, as you get 1 reraise chance per proc.

[keen parrot]

Because of less DB spam?

[forest sphinx]

#1488938979796582633 messageI I won this match, wdym? That's why I mentioned it's fairly easy to counter, but impossible if they keep getting procs and your pet pr summon fail to hit them

[round wave]

easiest solution i can think of is removing reraise from osiris sandals and putting restrictions on follower act rate and stats(for bof)

[hollow adder]

Oh. What is that picture saying then? I thought you lost on the reraise.

[round wave]

not necessarily best but easiest

[hollow adder]

That and lack of great meditation/DC from followers.

[forest sphinx]

My BP procced their reraise and my AD finished them

[hollow adder]

Reraise does not proc infinitely. It gets consumed, then is usually re-applied instantly by TMM.

[forest sphinx]

No yeah, I'm just saying it can save them infinite times

[forest sphinx]

Like here, 3 "saved by a miracle"

[hollow adder]

This is why the proc rate was recently lowered in pvp.

[forest sphinx]

While SC caps at 2

Again, sorry if I didn't explain myself properly, but it's just that they can keep getting saved infinitely as long as it keeps getting reapplied on them, and they keep healing

I thought it worked like SC, where it caps at 2

[round wave]

i have an idea limit second chance so they can only proc once (if reraise proc then class second chance wouldn't)

[hollow adder]

And that is why I'm suggesting to rethink your approach; when they are sitting at low HP and being saved by reraise and some healing, layer on temper/blight/whatever and try to mitigate those chances.

[round wave]

and reraise wouldn't proc multiple times

so only one second chance even with reraise

in bof

[hollow adder]

As much as I'd like that, you just made deities angry. (and they don't even know why)

[round wave]

Well i hate deity so it's a good thing for me

[forest sphinx]

And that's why I've already tweaked it a few times to deal with them, but I can't deal with perm SC, when it's the only outlier here

because if they're healing for 15k, what happens if I use miasma and they get blight?

They'll just blast me and I'm gone

While I'm getting them to 1 hp and they keep surviving all the time

That fight was unlucky because my AD didn't attack, yeah

But they shouldn't have got those 3 procs, is all I'm saying

[hollow adder]

15k healing with 1 attack? That sounds off, unless they are going ridiculously high with their HP gear.

[forest sphinx]

It's recharge

[hollow adder]

Yes, I'm saying I don't recharge for 15k.

[forest sphinx]

Then maybe they also had a ruby, idk, but a miasma proc or another status effect isn't winning me that

[hollow adder]

BeoH doesn't have much choice in what they build if they want to include parapet, ward hp recovery, etc. And that guy dedicated his leg slot to reraise as well.

[pallid maple]

So somewhere buried in this PvP talk I think I saw some actual event discussion

Have people been using the Crimson Scroll? Korosei said it still didn't feel like it was buffing spawns enough

[onyx swift]

Idk the orna side but HOA it significantly increases spawns

[forest sphinx]

Parapet and ward to hp recovery can just be an amity and a cele adorn, not that big of a sacrifice

[onyx swift]

And the darkrift fragment changes make worldfarming much worth

[forest sphinx]

And again for the 100th time, my only issue is just the 3 procs in a row, not that it's difficult to counter

[regal tangle]

Osmo stiles 2 can crit, and with 40% crit or 100% heal rate can keep any class alive

[lyric helm]

The scrolls should boost event mobs a fair amount. Event mobs are now common, and they were boosted in the scroll too

Just have to clear out what's there on first use

[hollow adder]

If he's hitting that hard with just 1 buff, his weapons are a full crit lute and an offhand lute. I'm having doubts that he is running somethign to counter blind with such a setup as well, but I could be wrong.

[pallid maple]

I'll give it a test myself, I could do with some world farming

[lyric helm]

If you happen to commute as a passenge at all this month, it'd be interesting to see how they go. I imagine quite well

[pallid maple]

Public transit? Where I live? 😆

I wish

[stray kayak]

you dont have mountain trains?

what about a ski-lift

[lyric helm]

Haha, force a mate to drive you somewhere

[pallid maple]

I do but I can't (legally) ride them

[regal tangle]

We have cars and 1.5 hour commutes here

[pallid maple]

Illegally hopping on a freight train could be fun but probably isn't a Northern Forge sanctioned way of playing Orna

[stray kayak]

knight, what do you mean you dont have waymo in your town

[pallid maple]

Or I can pay like $50 to ride the tourist train that doesn't have cell service for like 90% of it's route so also isn't ideal for Orna

Well now I understand the complaints about the debuffs =/

[regal tangle]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQU0Ia6iQA8/?igsh=YTQxeDluc3czdjU3

mmmjoemele

Always breaking at the LAST second 😭

Likes

1002023

Instagram

[pallid maple]

Quick Win: Allow the Arisen Arch-Gizmo to prevent t. Mag and t. Att

Also the Ring of Night for consistency

Oh, I take that back:

Quick win part 2: Allow accessories to even prevent these random stat downs in the first place, because they don't 😒

[round wave]

reworking unused accessories or introducing new accessories for that should be good ig

[pallid maple]

This isn't really reworking anything, those are the two accessories that prevent att/mag down statuses

It's just adding things that they should already work for but I don't believe Att/Mag triple down existed in the game previously

[regal tangle]

small request, but chaos scroll seems to cancel out crimson chaos scroll

also spawn rate with crimson chaos seems really low, like 3/15 mobs are event mobs 😕

[pallid maple]

I'll be honest with you, I don't see myself using a second one of these scrolls for the rest of the month in their current state

• Spawns are definitely increased, I think while world farming I can do maybe 50/50 normal vs event mobs when not moving. That part is fine, obviously they'd be better moving.
• I feel obligated to use an Affinity Candle, which likely cuts into the spawns a bit. But if I don't then that other half of the 50/50 is spent killing monsters that provide no benefit rather than some Proofs of Despair.
• The random stat downs don't make anything more challenging or difficult. There's no way to play around them and all they do is make things feel clunky and break the flow of gameplay.

[regal tangle]

i havent seen a single raid yet either using the scroll

spawn rate of event mobs feels like 30-50% at best, if its gonna add random debuffs, id like to get more event exp/essence/etc per encounter

3200 steps so far and still no raids,

What if the crimson scroll worked like dullahen bell and every 10 min it spawned a random raid on you.

[pallid maple]

Since chaos scrolls also now boost event spawns, I wonder if those would be better to use than the real event scroll?

They increase berserks for double item drops and don't come with the annoying stat changes

I can test it out later after my event scrolls wears off

[regal tangle]

you can just use the chaos scroll and it removes the event scroll buff

22 min, 4000 steps, 0 raids and no real reason to use the event scroll imho

oof so instead of 10-12 encouhters you get 7, and 1/7 is an event mob, vs the 3-5/10 with crimson chaos.....i think neither scroll is worth it and your jus tbetter off running dungeons

[fleet rose]

The spawn rate seems much much lower with a normal scroll

I agree, world farming is not worth it right now

[open wave]

could be the play, remove reraise the same weekend of easter

on theme

[stray kayak]

lmaooo

on the 3rd day he did not fucking rise

because we finally nerfed it

god is good

[karmic linden]

I think the best way to analyze world farming is via goals.

If you’re world farming to get despair, you’re better off just running an affinity candle and killing t10 mobs. They’re guaranteed to spawn 2 other t10s with the fragment. Meanwhile, since event mobs cap out at t9 and aren’t guaranteed to summon other event mobs, they can’t guarantee you’ll have 3 proof-eligible monsters to kill every fight.

If you’re doing it to farm essences for scrolls, dungeons are just so much better. Sure, you can use world farm in between dungeon runs, but most people can just grab invites to high density wayvessels and not have to worry about actually stopping the dungeon grind.

So, right now, event world farming seems to serve no purpose that can’t be achieved by other means

[regal tangle]

without t10 event mobs, it does feel worthless

I gained more event exp running 5 horde dungeons than i did getting 400 crimson proofs :-p

[pallid maple]

I was looking at it as an overall benefit since you can do T10s + the event mobs fill out the T9 slots when you're forced to hit T9s

So that's why a normal scroll of chaos might just be the better thing to use, ignore the event scroll and it's annoying debuffs, and just get a small boost to normal T10 world farming for despair =/

And if that's the case - we're not in a good place if the generic item is better to use than the special event item

[regal tangle]

Neither scroll felt worth it, and 30 minutes with 0 'community raids' seems sad

In 30 minutes of dungeon farming....i can get quite a few raids, prolly on the order of 10x 3 since they dont cost scrolls anymore.

do these scroll buffs work on dungeons? cause then it might be worth using :-p

[karmic linden]

From what I’ve seen, the raids spawn in the same predetermined spots. Moving around for a bit should help you find those spots

[regal tangle]

I was walking a 1 mile circle

[onyx knot]

are the scrolls a good way to find the event mobs? I need ares tokens

[final skiff]

idk ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[karmic linden]

Far inferior to dungeons

[final skiff]

i ran a smol test yesterday with a tiny sample pool of 16-18 dungeons total, averaged about 26 crimson monsters without the scroll and 34 with

atp i'm just believing in it .-.

[regal tangle]

With monument candle + event scroll and 100% horde armor I was getting well over 15-18 per dungeon

[open wave]

the scrolls effects dungeons?

[regal tangle]

Idk I had it on after trying a 30 min walk

[regal tangle]

Gonna say yes

Did 1 with 90% horde + monument candle and got 30 event mobs. Used crimson scroll and got 45

Got 55 event mobs that dungeon. So yeah scroll seems to work there.

[frosty canopy]

Ooh that’s very good to know

[hollow adder]

Could also be that Trex is just a lucky trucker.

[pure sinew]

BoF Aura acquired 100% using GSH

Probably lost 400 fights in the process of winning 400 fights 😂

But ‘twas a silly accomplishment

[open wave]

nice thanks for testing

[gleaming thistle]

hell yeah. I just acquired the aura myself.

base Hera Chakram all the way and a bit of mana ray.

I finally put on a yeti coat after you kept freezing me all the time but I only got one match against ya with it on 😅

[formal sonnet]

Im about to drive from humble to magnolia. Only 1hr commute 😂. Ill let ya know if i see a raid with crimson scroll.

[regal tangle]

ill bet you find plenty of my settlements :-p

[formal sonnet]

Nah they all mine tbh. Took all from brew and wrecked

[regal tangle]

actually humble is more wrecked but yall im cypress ;-p

[formal sonnet]

I see jeagerwulf sometimes

[regal tangle]

he must be a trucker cause hell clear out 290 1x a month then i wont see him for a while

[formal sonnet]

Think i took a big section monday on 290 north of cypress

May already be taken back. You have competition over there.

[open wave]

Hit up the buc-ee's in cypress for me ❤️

[mossy raven]

Anyone is having lag on bof?

[sage schooner]

I was having some minor lag in dungeons probably server struggling a bit

[torn wind]

potential event despair fix for long term (not only this event): t10s in the world should be able to spawn event minions of any tier as well as other t10, and event minion should only spawn other event minions, with fragment. When comparing to monuments last month, every event fight was 3 event minions. So even with my proposed fix it would be fewer event minions than last event monuments.

[royal sapphire]

Was there some unspoken bug again for the event exp? Since yesterday I met a ton of ppl already with the lvl 40 aura. Or is it really that easy to farm 40 in 3 days? 🤔

[sage schooner]

It's that easy. Just farm horde dungeons

[timid sparrow]

Has anyone had a chance to use hp/ward recovery items in bof? I tried using heart of themis but was not getting any hp even tho ward was defs taking damage

[royal sapphire]

Use gilded amulet for hp regen

[native cove]

Wait horde dungeon drop the crimson from bof?

[sage schooner]

Nah he means the other aura from event rewards

[regal tangle]

super easy to farm

with event scroll + monument scroll + 90% horde gear you can easily do 50 x event mobs a dungeon, and 2xp each (3 for boss)

I went from 10-25 in an hour after spending the first few days just doing bof

[sage schooner]

I'm at event level 62 and I haven't even been grinding that hard compared to some

[regal tangle]

i got my 2x god tools and 1x olympia coin, debating if i want aura or not cause i know that 150 item is nice but the odds of ever reaching it only get further away the more stuff you buy

[sage schooner]

I haven't bought anything yet saving for proof, then anything after will go to godmaking and aura

[shut tinsel]

The crimson scroll works on dungeons?

[regal tangle]

from my testing yes, i was averaging 30 ish event mobs a dungeon with just monument candle + 90% horde

it went to 45-55 ish with event scroll

which is good cause the scroll is super worthless for world farming :-p

[shut tinsel]

Yea that makes dungeons way better. The mobs already have low hp so melancholy farming it is

[formal sonnet]

Had crimson chaos scroll active entire drive. Saw 0 community raids

[regal tangle]

Same experience here

[formal sonnet]

If there is a kill trigger to get spawn idk how that would work.

[royal sapphire]

Sir, are you on your phone while driving? 🥸

[regal tangle]

Someone said it's like towers and they just spawn in set location

[formal sonnet]

I had gloves on, safety precautions taken.

[royal sapphire]

Aren't the world raids visible only to players traveling below a certain speed?

[formal sonnet]

Nope

Ive seen many at 80mph

[pallid maple]

That was removed quite a few years ago

[native cove]

Now u can hunt fish while flying.

I didnt know the scrolls affect dungeons. I thought it only affects world.

[royal sapphire]

someone assured me yesterday that it doesn't work in dungeons, now I'm confused

[sage schooner]

It's not hard to test it. Do a round with scroll, and a round without scroll and compare

To be fair the scrolls are so cheap I'm just keeping one up all the time anyway, even if it doesn't work it doesn't really matter

[formal sonnet]

Im told monument scroll does effect dungeons.

[shut tinsel]

Ran a dungeon with chaos scroll and it was a huge difference. Gained 4 levels from 6 dungeons

[fierce tartan]

Good lordy

[timid sparrow]

I would if i could loool

[timid sparrow]

Do the scrolls apply for dungeons too? I thought they were just for world mobs

[sage schooner]

I tried a round of dungeons without scroll and it did seem like there was less event mobs, but I didn't actually keep a tally or anything. Not to hard to test it out for yourself

[timid sparrow]

Hmm ok just wanted to double check if it was a confirmed boon

[sage schooner]

Once you start farming you will get so much of the currency that you can just keep a scroll up 24/7 with no problem anyway

[timid sparrow]

Oh nice ill try it out! Im not super rich on the currency atm is all

[onyx knot]

This is pretty cheesy 3 saves in a row from mimic auto casing reraise. I feel like the 50% is still way to high for pvp at least

[tribal olive]

Thank you for sharing

This is horrible for the pvp scene imagine going against this in any capacity

[tough jasper]

Don't need to imagine it, it happens every day haha

[tribal olive]

Right

Moreso for the studio that doesnt queue BoF and see this regularly

Hoping they see this

Keep sharing these kinds of examples

They help push the case

[sage schooner]

I don't have a screenshot but people are also stacking pet protect up insanely high to the point they are just blocking every turn. I'll try and SS when I encounter it again next

[tribal olive]

I think pet protect is probably fine we cant nerf everything to the ground unfortunately

Reraise is basically a second second chance right now

And it can spam infinitely

Gotta target the things that are actually problematic. The more focus the better for getting attention on these things in my experience

[sage schooner]

I'm talking EVERY turn, as in literally invincible lol. Like I don't have a problem with pet protect in general but it should have limits

[tribal olive]

Thats fair

Lets see how the reraise treatment goes, and evaluate after if any changes made there

[sage schooner]

I do feel for them though. It's gotta be insanely tough to balance a game like this with so many different variables to account for

[tribal olive]

Absolutely

But like... Reraise should have never been released

Sometimes you take a shot and it backfires

[warped zinc]

I honestly dont get it why ppl are suprised that they cant kill "reraise" user when they mindlessly press the same attack everytime. When the easiest solution is to just stun/sleep dart while there is dot

Oceanus could be nice bc it has double frozen

[warped zinc]

Pet protection has some very hard counters

Ursastrikes, apex and bloodray/mana

[fervent dawn]

Anyone know what the hit chance calculation is?

I can't tell if the Crimson Eye of Centaurus is actually an increase in hit-chance or not.
It's +1% accuracy, but -50 dexterity so idk how much of a positive/negative that is.

[tribal olive]

Some people actually build immunities

Whats your solution then?

[warped zinc]

I usually learn their next weakness

[tribal olive]

Gotcha cuz having double double second chance has a lot of weaknesses

[sage schooner]

I gave up trying to reason with Odin, his solution to every problem is to just spec heavy into statuses 🤷‍♂️

[warped zinc]

Hey you can simply use aaru curse

No need to go heavy on statuses

Aaru curse is literally hard counter to reraise

And there is no immunity to that

No need to act dump when there is a solution to your problem

[tribal olive]

And youre just magically not dead by then 🤔

[warped zinc]

I mean he can just keep attacking. And the opponent would be dead instantly when the curse procs bc no healing works at that point

[warped zinc]

For examble if sokam would have proced the curse. This beo would be dead on his second turn

Bc reraise or recharge wont save him due bloodshift mechanic

Aaru curse is literally our strongest dot that we can have

[gloomy kite]

In principle, 30 dex = 1 accuracy (with accuracy between 60 and 99, 60 if you lack >1200 dex, 99 if your dex is higher than opponent) . But of course you can go for high accuracy with low dex (e.g. with rs2 due to fixed miss chance).

[warped zinc]

"Oneshot"

[native cove]

I need Odin gears setup. I like what I see here

[warped zinc]

This is hilarious

I actually have many status gear setups that i switch

[timid sparrow]

isnt there only 1 weapon that procs this in the game so far? seems kinda difficult to do unless you build for it specifically

it's also a 12% chance on said weapon

[warped zinc]

2 if i remember correctly

12% is quite high proc rate btw

[timid sparrow]

ok but how is that a solution for the general pvp scene still? should everyone just play status builds then

[warped zinc]

For general pvp aaru curse gives a healing debuff. Which blocks reraise etc any healing mechanic

[timid sparrow]

yes but you have 2 t6 weapons that can proc it

and if you dont have a dedicated status build youre probs not going to proc it very often

[sage schooner]

This is not a conversation worth having. Odins solution to everything is to make 1 specific build lmao

[timid sparrow]

welp

ig if status builds counter everything then what counters the status build is the question to ask haha

[sage schooner]

status immunities

Also apparently he's weak to high dex

[timid sparrow]

ig focus on the ones that prevent you from not acting

[timid sparrow]

well my dorado has a lot of dex if nothing else haha

[sage schooner]

Sleep and stun immunities are pretty much must haves anyway, then probably blight, then whatever else after that

[timid sparrow]

its really too bad those are on two separate accessories (sleep/stun)

[sage schooner]

Well if you're dorado hels garb gives dex + stun and blind immunity, one of the BiS pieces

[timid sparrow]

ohh facts facts

[native cove]

U will get better one in events later.

[native cove]

The scroll description didn't say only worlds... So i assume it affects all?

[regal tangle]

1 Hour of dungeons with scroll , went from 25 to 40.

Thoughts

• for world spawns the scroll is largely useless. This is partly because of the mechanics of world spawns. Event mobs need to be able to spawn outside of their teir in horde content. At t10, we have to actively target t9 or lower to get event mobs.
• The scroll should have a built in dark rift feature, where the only additional mobs that can spawn are event mobs regardless of the main mob on the map you click on.
• the debuffs dont seem to be compensated for. Even with the above suggestion it is 100x more efficient to just grind dungeons, which seems to defeat the entire point of an event scroll aimed at world farming. Event mobs on the world should drop double their essence as a base (4x when berserk).
• The community raids are a huge miss, they spawn like towers in set locations. If you dont happen to walk / drive past one, you get nothing. I saw a total of 5, and every one was a t6 cerus. I like the dullahen calling bell mechanic much more than this. I dont see the point of a raid being unlocked if 1...its not the tier i want...and 2 its in a set location that i got unlucky to not live near. Its not like you can pick up 5 raids on a commute and do them when you get to work.

Also the proof of sparing cost is way to high for scrolls:

1 hour of farming dungeons was roughly 200 of each essence, enough for 3x 20 scrolls ...or 16 x super scrolls

1 hour of bof might get you 2-3 regular scrolls or 1 super scroll....depending on lag, and win rate

I dont think it should be a 1:1 comparison, as in 1 proof = 1 scroll. but at 20 proofs i feel its far too high for most people to justify using bof to even farm for scrolls. 5 proofs for a regular and 15 for a super scroll would seem far more appealing, while still being less efficient than dungeons.

[onyx knot]

Or just make it even so you can choose which path you want to play. This is half a pvp event so at least make people playing the pvp path be able to get the same number of scrolls as the people not thinking and just grinding their butts off in dungeons or world farming.

[regal tangle]

It wasn't always a pvp event and the scroll has no effect on pvp.

But the pvp aspect does need a huge buff for a month long event, 99% of people will be done with pvp after 1 week cause the current rewards are over priced, and there isn't currently anything else worth farming pvp for

Last month I gained 40+ monument guild levels.... This month I gained 2 bof levels (20 to 22) before getting bored

[onyx knot]

Exactly for the investment that live pvp is it should be even or better. It should rival pve rewards because well it's harder than pve. If you don't like pvp go to pve and play your way.

Another pvp option is make pvp give 2 currency for a win 1 for a loss and even the losses will keep you up with the pve rates so people have nothing to quit the game over. They can lose every match and still do just as good as playing pve in terms of making scrolls.

[vestal token]

Evil
Will steal

[vestal token]

Supposedly only in BoF

[fervent dawn]

So it's net negative if your dex is below 1200?
Aside from fixed miss chance skills.

How did you arrive at those dex numbers?

[vestal token]

Is 1200 below the opponents dex

[fervent dawn]

Oh

So then the adornment is always net negative aside from fixed miss chance since it's -50 dex which is roughly a -1.66% accuracy modifier?

Would be less bad with a broken adornment I suppose

[gloomy kite]

Usually, yes. But you can also combine it with other accuracy boni to reach 40% (ranger, Nolan etc). Then, dex is irrelevant for miss chance (but it does not help with not getting hit)

[tame iron]

I think dex is unaffected by quality

[fervent dawn]

Seems that your right.
Never noticed that.
Thanks

[tribal olive]

Added this to the orn feedback. Thanks!

[hollow adder]

This conversation already passed, but I want to bring it back and say Odin is looking at it from the right point of view. I've won a hilarious amount of battles against mimic reraise spam because I simply hit smoke bomb and gave myself more coin flips than them.

Against Beos that don't kill me turn 1 with double cap damage, blind raised my survival chances by a ridiculous amount because follower attacks rarely hit low enough to go under parapet, giving me several coin flips on survival where I would normally walk into death within 2 rounds because they got first move.

The best part is running against the same one several times and they take 3 matches to start shifting their immunities.

[native cove]

Golden bed bug does all! It blinds, it saves, and it revives your teammate!

It protecc too!

[hollow adder]

The only problem is when it gets fixated on throwing pocket sand into steadfast 🥲

Yes, Bright Star is pocket sand. You cannot unsee it.

[native cove]

Yes! It shines like a diamond!

We haven't seen how powerful it is in team fights.

[warped zinc]

Also i was shockked

The oneshots are funny

[formal sonnet]

Im waiting for BoF arena to be nerfed so much we are fist fighting naked.

[tribal olive]

Thatll never happen

Reraise is a problem though

Literally everyone is either reraise or beo/pet right now

Love the creativity

[warped zinc]

Whats wrong with beo/pet

Its the point of the whole class

[flat bluff]

-# All i see are either players with pets or players with summons

[warped zinc]

This

[tribal olive]

Going around house rules for turn 1 kills

Specifically

[warped zinc]

But that is solved with healing

[tribal olive]

Just because you can solve it doesnt mean its not creative

Theres a list of things that bust the house rules that everyone can see. Im glad people are abusing it so we can get it all fixed

[ruby axle]

I really wouldn't call pets being able to hit for their own 50% cheese though, and it's not nearly as strong as other things that where nerfed/are considered "cheese". It actually has a ton of easy counters, manticore eyes/lots of gear with Beast taming effect, just having solid starting ward, HP-ward effect, etc

Unless there is something like BeoA followers acting twice turn 1 and killing people that I don't know about, cause then I could understand maybe making it so followers can't act twice turn 1 or something

[warped zinc]

Well no bof for me anymore

[ruby axle]

Deity Ursa can use Apex DC turn 2 for the extra turn and hit for 100% as it's technically turn 3

[warped zinc]

Yea i wouldnt call this a cheese if beo is just doing what the class should

• beo double act wont happen turn 1 it was removed long time ago

[final skiff]

i would think that if the turn 1 beo kill weren't easily preventable, it would've already been brought up somewhere in UBC .-.

the numbers i've been seeing in most screenshots aren't very impressive from either or both of the damage numbers

[warped zinc]

Yea exactly

• most of these players are playing very glass cannon build and then they are suprised that beos pet hurts them

[tribal olive]

I wont debate it because it isnt really one
One class can get around house rules turn 1 and kill the others cant, and we nerfed all the other offenders starting with CD

Beo main here too and im saying its too much

Its the least offender of whats left on the list probably along with dursa. I was calling out the lack of creativity and sheer copy paste of builds in the list of stuff that breaks house rules

[final skiff]

tbh i wouldn't mind the possibility for a turn 1 kill being removed (since i also don't like facing the same build over and over...) as long as it doesn't affect the other beo builds

[warped zinc]

Neutering pet dmg will affect the whole classline

[ruby axle]

Honestly the most common build I was running into last night was just high pet block/parapet/Bone Mammoth stall and just taking 10 turns buffing

I'd rather lose to DS3 ten times over then just being held captive while my opponent does a full raid buffing set up

[tribal olive]

One is strong and the other cuts house rules, and is inconsistent with the latest round of balancing that is removing things that cut house rules

Only thing preventing it from going is Odie said it was difficult to fix player+pet damage so might take time

[final skiff]

now i question the morality of my build 🤣

[tribal olive]

Im not here to argue it cheats house rules because it does lol thats the only argument im making here, and the lack of creativity

[stray kayak]

1. house rules to be respected for all builds (no cheesing turns) 2) make reward(s) for bof pvp much greater (includes losses). Slower fights won't feel as bad if players are being rewarded proportional to effort invested.

[tribal olive]

It wont be a vanilla shit fest i promise itll be a much better pvp environment

Remember when 90% of people would go in with full bastion/defend bonus builds and literally just tank to infinity?

[stray kayak]

this is all I want and I think it can turn out really well.

[tribal olive]

We gotta balance it for success

[stray kayak]

yup they just wanted to grind one button a'la their one button pve builds because the grind was locked into X number of hours

easier to turn brain off

not saying that achieving #2 will magically change this behavior immediately but being rewarded for paying attention - I think the anguish system is working like this

[tribal olive]

Totally agreed

[hollow adder]

The main issue with what you have mentioned is that the opportunity cost to countering it is too high given its effectiveness. Giving up gear slots with high dex/parapet/other strong passives or immunities to get beast taming is a tough call, and manticore eyes can't be used in a sufficient quantity with crit builds. hp-ward effects help for one turn unless you have 6 digit ward.

[onyx knot]

You just need to read the house rules and then your like wait that's not how it works at all 😂

[hollow adder]

At any rate overall Beo damage does need to be capped on turn 1, the implementation is all that needs to be figured out. There is potential to do it in smart ways that doesn't get rid of the dual player/follower attack style.

[ruby axle]

My build runs 95% crit, mid-range dex with +35% total accuracy, uses 8 Manticore eyes for 16% beast taming, HP-ward effect, etc. There is lots of room to build into these counters

But that's not really the point, mainly I don't really care much about pets being able to kill T1. I just feel there needs to be something to be concerned about in the first 2 turns. Maybe I'm in the minority, but spending the first 2 turns using buffs every fight cause there is no reason to smack your opponent would get very boring very quickly

[hollow adder]

First turn should be showcasing the manner of threat you are running, there should be no immediate danger of the battle ending.

I found far more success in countering t1 beo kills with high dex, parapet, gilded kheper follower reraising and blinding them immediately.

[ruby axle]

Fair, I can understand that, but just to look at it from another PoV, why should someone who is running 0 starting ward turns, BoF full glass cannon/0 defensive stats, feel just as safe for T1/T2 as someone who actually built around these starting defensive features?

[hollow adder]

This is why I'm saying Beo overall t1 damage shouldn't be limited to 50%, but something like 60%: when people feel safe being at 51% HP because of something like hp regen or ward hp regen, you can chance a debuff that forces them to pivot.

[ruby axle]

That I could 100% get behind

[hollow adder]

A lot of the time I'm throwing out a t1 attack and chancing a debuff to threaten a t2 kill.

the 60% figure clearly "breaks" the house rule, but it now allows this meta-altering cycle of a build that scares tiny ward pools with a bit of hp regen, or a bit of straight hp regen to make turn 2 feel safe.

But then this build is going to be squishy, no steadfast, etc. Easy to counter.

[final skiff]

i agree with the cap not being 50% for the sake of being able to counter hp % regen
the 60% sounds small enough to make redlining the opponent not feel detrimental

[hollow adder]

This build is also going to be hard countered by t1 DB from mammoth, which is something that I definitely started to see more of.

[tribal olive]

Even like pet is able to do 25% would be fine

But outright being able to kill there is not in line with other recent changes

[hollow adder]

specifically it's that the combined player+follower damage has to be that threshold. A bit pedantic, but needs to be said.

[vestal token]

Sadly BoF never gives you anything worth the grind. Its the least efficient guild, by far, even somehow worse and less fun then spelunker guild, which is an archievement.

Its not a place you go to for reward.

Grind DoF and BoF from Conq, do yourself and your sanity that fsvor

[regal tangle]

I feel all guilds could use a rebalance cause some are way more efficient than other. oracle, and tower feel decent. The grind for monument wasn't bad, but the mat cost is to high. And other guilds just aren't efficient to grind or for mats

[hardy wagon]

Conqueror is harder to grind than Blades is if you don't travel a whole lot.
Blades is 'guaranteed' access and progress towards the specs. Something you can actually grind.

[regal tangle]

It took me a year to get rank 40 on conquest guild.... I blame @noble kestrel

[noble kestrel]

We only have so much settlements in our route

I am still a quarter of a level short from 40 😅