2025 H2 Status Effect Changes

[limpid orbit]

If statuses faded at the start of your turn, it would be a simple fix to ensure that all statuses lasted at least 1 turn

[soft mirage]

But that would not fix the problem that rhay was having. + statuses fading at start of your turn or end of opponent turn are basicly same.

[limber herald]

If status effects have a chance to fade before afflicted target moves, then that makes status effects even less effective as they already are.

A compromise maybe would be to make turn 1 status effect stick, and then subsequent turns have the fade check at the start

So you can stun people, but stunlocking isn't guaranteed (is less of a pain)

[humble eagle]

As mentioned just 2 posts above (come on @limber herald , you are way better than that!), status effects already do last at least 1 turn

EDIT: it was actually 5 posts above

[limpid orbit]

Yes, that's the intent. The point would be to ensure players get at least 1 turn free from the status before it can be reapplied

[soft mirage]

Well if statuses could fade before action. Then statusez like toxic, blight etc should gain their "lost" power back just to gain some compensation. Bc that is quite huge benefit for the opponent.

[velvet bolt]

Ahh yes I can wait to see a Gilgamesh using frenzy and having more dex than me as a realm 💀
Oh damn 1:30 min timer

[humble eagle]

... how is this relevant to the status effect changes?

[soft mirage]

Bc normally stun lock and fade can happen in the same action. So with this way they would not and the possible stop action is now not possible if fading happens.

[limber herald]

Well from what I understood, Rhay wants stunlocked to be not as annoying as it is, so the concept of status fading at the start of the turn instead of the end means that players can choose what to act

Example, currently it's stunned > opponent turn > player turn (still stunned) > use panacea to get rid of stun

If status fade check is at the start, then it's stunned > opponent turn > stun fade (now players can decide whether to use panacea or something else)

However, I agree that statuses should at least last one turn, therefore my suggestion that on turn 1, statuses will stick and fade check happens at the end of afflicted player's turn. And then on turn 2 onwards, fade checks happen at the start

[humble eagle]

Ah. Got it. Then I am on the same page as you, yeah.

I am also now realizing that Rhay's suggestion addresses the concern of the opponent immediately reapplying the status effect and thus making it so that you can never act. They said it plainly, it was my fault for not understanding it 😂 .

Funnily enough this same change was made to Sleep from Pokemon Gen 1 to Gen 2 and onwards. Sleep was/is considered OP in Pokemon Gen 1 because the check to fade happens at the end of the turn. Just mentioning it in case the "historical precedent" helps NF make a decision 😂 .

[limber herald]

Actually .. this also helps with beo players. Currently statuses fade after player action so there's a chance that I cast snotra but then tmag3 fades so my follower deals more or less the same damage. OTOH if I know that tmag3 fades before I use my turn, I can instead drink a Merlin's lotion for that tmag3 instead of snotra and have more dmg output

[soft mirage]

Pokemon treats statuses well and most statuses in orna should follow similar paths

[humble eagle]

Though for clarification (and still kind of based on my understanding of statuses through the lens of how they are used in other RPGs like Pokemon), I envision "fade at the start of the turn" such that:

• Opponent applies stun
• I select my action while afflicted
• My turn begins resolving, and the game checks, in this order, if the status should fade and if the status will cause me to lose my turn

Not arguing for or against this interpretation, but putting this here because it feels like we are all imagining this being implemented in different ways and I'm having trouble following along because of it.

[limber herald]

I also understand the flow as such:

• opponent applies stun
• the game checks if the status should fade
• I select my action
• if status stays, game checks if I lose my turn.

Loop

After turn 1 of course. Turn 1 stays the same as it is

• opponent applies stun
• I select my action while afflicted
• my turn begins resolving... Copy what Tona/Wandering Poet said

[neat schooner]

Pokemon also only allows 1 status effect at a time (with some exceptions) and you have others that you can switch to instead of being a sandbag, but I otherwise agree.

[soft mirage]

But also pokemon does not have huge access to moves or even much access to counter statuses.

In orna we have gearing and huge slots of moves. You cant compare them like that.

[vagrant granite]

I play MTG, extra turns or skip your turn are mostly ban or limited in almost all format. Lol

It prevents the other player enjoying the match.
Delay the game.

There's once , one card that could only get from event become a meta staple, it got ban the next day when it become meta.

Turn stopper or skip turn or even giving yourself an extra is actually bad for the game.

It's not because of how powerful it is, is because the opponent have to sit through the whole process.

It's a negative experience and it stops ppl wanting to enjoy PVP.

In PVE, it doesn't really matter. You just playing with yourself.

As a game, having a negative experience from doing nothing, is bad for business

[soft mirage]

I mean if we want to remove turn skips. Then we should also remove avidity, partin remark and any that gives player more than 1 action( i dont think this will ever happen.)

[vagrant granite]

That's why it should be nerf in PVP.

[soft mirage]

Are flask + turns, avidity or apex nerfed in pvp?

Why nerf statuses in content where they are literally only used. You dont use statuses vs pve bc pve os mostly immune to those.( also statuses are not even the biggest fish in the meta in pvp)

[neat schooner]

Parting Remark is fine because outside of 2v2+ battles, it's useless in PvP. I also think setting up or working for your extra turn is perfectly fine. See: revised Realmshift, Dursa Apex.

Avidity was a terrible idea IMO and I don't actually like extra turns on flasks--I initially thought they would be chosen and activated alongside the selected spell to apply their effects--but I'll take them anyway 😅

[soft mirage]

So do you think that stacking statuses is not working towards my extra turns?

[vagrant granite]

Ppl are complaining about turn stopper because of how it affects PVP?
I don't see many ppl complaining about status effect on PVE though?

[soft mirage]

Literally phil and rhay were talking about pve mostly. And slightly arguing for pvp to support nerfs

[neat schooner]

But watching and waiting on a Realmshifter to act when they don't realize they got a third extra turn is just as bad as being locked down by Stun, Blight, Freeze and/or getting hit with them again immediately after spamming another Panacea in PvE.

If stacking statuses worked more like a combo/puzzle ("drench them first then gain freeze with ice magic or paralysis with lightning"), then yes I would say you worked for it.

As of now, it's just the opponent sitting there while you keep throwing debuffs waiting on DOT/your follower to kill. No one wants to sit through that, or change their entire load out to deal with it only to lose to everyone else in the queue because of the swap.

[sick bramble]

Status effects in Orna have been the way they are since the beginning and that hasnt stopped anyone here from playing. Lets be honest with ourselves here.

[vagrant granite]

The issue with PVE is because most of them are immune and we get status all the time and don't get our Max damage. For me, that's ok.

You can solve it and only one player are affected, which to me is just a common heretic issue. Lol.

[neat schooner]

The way they are has stopped me from playing classes that don't have Steadfast. Beo is a memory mule and Realmshifter is a dungeon scout for me.

But without other player-controlled party members to fight as or swap to, the constant stun locks and turn losses feel really awful more often than not, personally speaking.

[limpid orbit]

What? I've not talked about pve once

Maybe only mentioned anguish maluses in passing lol

[soft mirage]

Yea i remember that we talked a bit about anguish which is heavily pve

[vagrant granite]

Doesn't mean it's not an issue. That's why they keep changing.
That's why we have this thread?

The skills are ok in PVE. No one really mind. Which most casual players are.

That's why the poll reflect that status effect don't need much changes.

The issues are always at PVP for status effect especially for classes that can't handle it.

And the game become stagnant in PVP. A very negative experience for competitive players like us in this thread.

Luckily we don't have REAL TIME PVP yet. Turn stopper makes it even worst.

Just my opinion. Status effect nerf should be only on PVP.

PVE, it's an excellent experience. Literally positive experience for current players.

[soft mirage]

We have this thread bc we thought the nerf was not deserved

[vagrant granite]

Because the nerf applies across both PVP and PVE. And this affects how some classes cheese with status effect on PVE content. Which shouldn't be nerf.

Most nerf you see on ORNA currently are mostly for PVP.

Which most ppl complain about.

[soft mirage]

Indeed bc pve has nothing to nerf from player perspective bc they are not usable in pve 🧐 ( not counting stasis)

[analog bough]

My brother stopped playing because he chose the theif classline specifically to use DoT statuses to beat everything.
It was slow and grueling and became obvious this was completely unviable when he reached raid content.
People who are disappointed by the false promises of the status system tend to quietly leave once they realise the game boils down to big dmg hit goes brrr.

[vagrant granite]

That's why now we have a lot of 25%/50%/100% buff to status damage gears added.

Raid content is indeed a bad content for status effect or DOT damage, but I think the DEV are listening. Maybe a bit slow lol.

Even as a glass cannon heretic, I'm facing issue fighting anguished raid bosses and needed the big number. Then I look at all the status effect and they are immune to most lol.
Big number is the way to go or u just go ward regen with less damage.

I submitted an item that interact with status effect for competition.

Also I see ppl are having fun using DOT in the recent Giant and Titans event.

[analog bough]

I loved the recent event where we could just fight every tower raid on one floor. I was able to throw on a full DoT build and actually see it do something. It's a shame that the only fun raids for DoT are locked behind 9-49 floors of horde battles.

[analog bough]

This skillset is what tricks new players into thinking statuses are worth using. Bleed+Poison sounds fun on paper. In reality it's just a bit of bonus chip damage

[soft mirage]

Even if they are not immune to x status. They are immune to the dmg that dots do.

for examble prometheus rune or toxic cant dmg raids even if you can proc it to them.

[vagrant granite]

Oh ya, because it's still consider a type of atk/mag.

[soft mirage]

I mean raids wont lose hp from dots

[vagrant granite]

They do? Lyncus just lost HP from my starstruck. 9999 damage lol.

[analog bough]

Yeah. Being capped to 9999 damage on raids that aren't status immune to everything is another gripe. There's loads of ways to do 1mil+ in a single hit, but having a DoT that takes several turns before it even starts ticking and fades in 2 rounds was apparently too much.

[soft mirage]

Raids recover back the dmg you do with statuses

[analog bough]

Actually criminal

[soft mirage]

They do take the 999 dmg. But at the start of your next turn the hp is back to the point before dot tick

[slim trellis]

I completely agree to this. I don't know why people assumed stun would fade quicker if you just change where in your turn that change is calculated. Stun always lasted at least 1 turns for me in which i had to do the gamble.

[abstract kelp]

Wow I didnt notice this was going on. What the hell is happening to Orna..

[vagrant granite]

Beta changes, not yet live. So what do you think? Any comments?

[old turret]

We write messages to create drama, not answers

[abstract kelp]

I know. What i think: it's horrible. Why are statuses suddenly a problem?

[vagrant granite]

I like drama, thank you!

[silent flame]

the changes were reverted a while ago. i'm not sure we need to necro the conversation

[vagrant granite]

I think status effect fading is tie to other temporary buff fading.

Because based on my heretic corvus critical poise, it affects both my temporary buff and negative status effect.

[abstract kelp]

That makes rune of oceanus also have a 30% miss chance right?

[old turret]

No

[slim trellis]

Hey, i have a quick question.

Since of... whatever unfathomable reasons to my still somewhat sane mind, people seemed to lovr status effects to be a soul crushing nuisance, so the changes got reverted. Okay.

But the nerf on stasis in general was extremely appreciated, but it also gut reverted in Beta. Why?

If any, people agreed 80% is not not enough and it needs to be reduced further, if not outright removed.