Wyrmhunt (2025)

[wooden nexus]

Most rogue likes I've played don't give options but IDK

[worthy stag]

Like, when you open a chest, you could have 2 or 3 options and choose only one

This would give more strategy, than just open a chest and pray

[wooden nexus]

That's not my experience it's typically RNG for it it's I think determined when you open the dungeon/tower

[wooden nexus]

Option 2 don't open chest

Option 3 open all the chests and use drake blood to remove blight

[dapper torrent]

I havent tried it but does ymir vritra charm negate the drakeblight from the chests or no?

[wooden nexus]

Not sure

Probably not

It might straight up be like applied from pet source codes

[worthy stag]

Immunity doesn't work on chest buffs

[dapper torrent]

Could be a solution if it does. Personally I'm just running dragon res and its enough to never get 1shot on a bad turn 1

[wooden nexus]

What immunities would you need for buffs?

You only need immunities for debuffs

[worthy stag]

you understood

[wooden nexus]

I did?

[worthy stag]

My dream to see 3 options per chest and having to choose between buffs and debuffs, similar to Anguish path

But right now, a low ALs player who has the unluck to get Drakeblight and fight an unavoidable Bashe horde is quite rough

He better have an 80% Dragon res like you said

[dapper torrent]

Odie straight up stated this is intended for endgame players

[worthy stag]

what's the definition of "Endgame" in Orna ?

[dapper torrent]

Ask him, but it seems to be intended to be challenging content, not easily accessible for everyone

[ruby kayak]

Died again, but because of greed xD

[worthy stag]

Greed is THE runkiller in Towers 😂

[ruby kayak]

I thought i could survive 2 bashe ymir and 2 gorynch, silly me

[worthy stag]

They have so much HPs it's just reidiculous

Even the Nidhogg horde is easy compared to that

[ruby kayak]

That and paralyze+drakeblight

[worthy stag]

yikes

what's your level and ascensions for reference ?

[ruby kayak]

I wanted to sigil+aga but para had better plans

28 and ang1 lol

[dapper torrent]

ymir vritra charm will protect you from paralyze stun and drakeblight btw

[worthy stag]

Not endgame enough 🤣

[dapper torrent]

Could try it without anguish

[ruby kayak]

Confirmed drakeblight? I dont see it in descrip

[dapper torrent]

Ymir vritra charm, not the normal vrita charm, its the one that drops off ymir amphithetre

[ruby kayak]

Ah true, not mentioned in descript but in "immunities"

I'll try tomorrow

[ruby kayak]

Yeah meant the big text, i was at changing equip, not inventory

[wooden nexus]

They both give it

[dapper torrent]

Interesting, I could have sworn it didn't

[ruby kayak]

Mmm with charm i dont think i can one shot lotan and vitra tho

[dapper torrent]

That's the choice if you want to sacrifice damage for survivability. I'm personally not using it, but it could be helpful for some

[ruby kayak]

Maybe the way is to go crit 1H and shield with ymir and spam av3 :x

[dapper torrent]

I'm using bulwark chestpiece with dragon enchanted weapon for tower for the extra damage and resist and I'm finding just having dragon res and some starting ward turns is enough to not get 1shot at low anguish even if you get a stun turn 1

I have 14 yel kills so far with 3 tower deaths, 2 early on when I was figuring the tower out and 1 from not paying attention

The first tower I did at anguish 8 with no dragon res or nothing and died on like floor 14 or something

[reef crystal]

People being unable or unwilling to adapt their builds and then complaining the event is hard is so frustrating to see. That’s how we end up with a game where everything is AoE spam and requires 0 brainpower

[dapper torrent]

I mean people are still doing AOE spam and they even added new AOE spam weapons lmao

Just not for melee obv cuz f melee apparently

[opal hound]

Honestly, I don't like you open negative things from chests.
I got starstruck, dragon blight from 2 chests. With 60 AL, I died in the second round because all 5 of the enemy could damage me. With like 5k blue damage each. Ymir Vritra did nothing.

[dapper torrent]

Ignoring the chests is a perfectly viable strategy

[opal hound]

It was my first time in the tower. I didn't check the discord first. Still with 60AL D.Ara I could die in 2nd round. *With a pretty good and tanky gear.

[dapper torrent]

Yeah don't feel too bad most people I have talked to have died in their first tower, including myself, it's a very different concept from what has come before. Try getting dragon res on your gear and ignoring chests and it becomes a bit easier

[opal hound]

I will ignore chests.. I don't even need those.
At least let the Ymir Vritra cancel the dragon blight... This alone could have saved me.
Well I guess back to dragon farming for second key. 😢
Sorry for the venting but it was frustrating.

[proven basin]

not when i have a year with muscle memory

i try to ignore them then i find myself muscle memoried and opened them all

[dapper torrent]

Lol yeah happened to me too.

[proven basin]

and not worth erasing the muscle memory for a month event

[shy marsh]

Are we going to be able to use these event keys after Wyrmhunt concludes ?

[elder sun]

dont think odie said anything about that but i wouldnt count on it

[primal onyx]

Doubt it, key description says during wyrmhunt event unfortunately

[gleaming flume]

#💡│suggestions message
It's not directly related to your question but it may help ?

[long cairn]

Can we get lower tower CD for Yelbeghen?

[worthy stag]

Yep, because the only limitation with the new content will be the amount of towers we find

[worthy stag]

I got Berzerk and Mag+, and resist the urge to open other chests ... but then reflexes kicks in, open the map when I start a new floor, see a chest, automatically opens it to get get inflicted by Drakeblight

You learned to be good in Towers and it fires back, it's a terrible feeling !

I remember in the early implementation of Towers, you could encounter a Mimic horde when you opened a chest, nothing very detrimental in the long run, just a surprise fight with no special rewards, and it got removed.
I do not understand why we have a negative unavoidable buff in Towers.

If you want to introduce maluses in Towers, make it fun/interesting to open chests.
Because most of the time the buffs are light, if you play Magic you'll search for Mag+, All+ and Berzerk, maybe Crit+, but with Drakeblight that can appear right at the first chest, the gameplay doesn't feel worth it.

[worthy stag]

This was an idea, but you could also reroll a chest using a key to avoid a debuff

IMO you could use this to also reroll a buff that has no use for you

be sure to not spend all your keys

[haughty falcon]

Personally I'm fine with the maluses in chests as long as they don't find their way into base towers. At 25 floors you really don't need chests at all

[meager dew]

That's kind of my stance as well, I like them in event towers adds a bit more character to them to differentiate them from regular regular towers, and like you said, 25 floors you don't really need chests buffs so you can really just choose not to take them if you really don't want to

[hidden mulch]

are zerk ymirs not dropping multiple items intentional

[static raven]

Chill guys

New tower is fine thats it

[jovial yew]

Buff beithir summon make it actually do dmg please 😭🙏

[static raven]

Also gives quite good orns

[ocean wadi]

Relax... Take a rest!

[static raven]

No

[south prairie]

No rest until staff drops

[wooden badger]

Without using it I’ve gotten 3, and a friends gotten 5
Maybe we got your luck 😭

You can get one in the free pass, and 2 in the arch pass
That seems pretty fair to me

Actually no they both have 2 rewarded what are you talking about
Got jewel of creation mixed, it is 1 free, 2 paid

[north mantle]

I'll buy it

[wooden nexus]

No Odie has committed to f2p and having a crest of the felling in the payed arch path is one of the things people said was p2w and has yet to address that it in the paid path as of now it's not fine because this will open a door if p2w in orna that we don't want

[reef crystal]

One of them is exclusive to the paid pass. In previous discussions regarding archpaths, the studio had committed to not include it in the paid path, as the community in general agreed it crossed the limits of P2W. Which is why this sudden change lead me to question whether it had been an oversight or if the studio had changed its stance

[wooden badger]

Did the community AND the dev team agree? Because I don’t remember seeing where they explicitly said they wouldn’t just include it in both. They acknowledged that the community said it had a p2w feel behind it, but I don’t remember seeing where they said they wouldn’t change it/how they would change it

[eternal harbor]

In #👋│general

In the ORN Chat

I believe in Odie to not push Orna even further toward a Pay to Win direction, so I'll be very disappointed if all that fuss we made in December just resulted in "Ok, we'll make it P2W later once people are more used to Archpaths"

[crude surge]

Hi everyone! I had a little question to ask .. im newer to the game and trying to grasp stuff with this event. I have read somewhere that we can collect some of these dragons as companions after you claim their codex complete. I have done lotans but do not see him in the beastiarys ? I have 5 ive been rotating through is it just a chance of him showing up?

[wooden nexus]

its a chance that they will show up

what tier are you and if you need ive got like 100 bestaries at my wv you can jump to it and go through them if youd like

[strong agate]

Please keep the head count and debuffs from the chests! I have been very interested in the grind and excited to keep this gear a long form chase

[hidden mulch]

A really long form chase

[wooden badger]

How is it pay to win though? You’re getting a consumable item that increases rewards gained for an hour. Which is also being rewarded freely for those in the free pass.
An hour of rewards really that big of an issue? Considering the primary rewards are dropped based on RNG regardless of bonuses applied?
That doesn’t explicitly say what you’re all saying was said.
Nowhere does he say it is being changed or moved, he said it’s offered to both spectrums of players.

[eternal harbor]

It offers raid rewards in exchange for money 🤷‍♂️

You get significantly more raid rewards when using a Crest of Felling

[wooden badger]

So I’m paying 5 dollars for an FSC?
I think you’re conflating the issue into something it isn’t

[eternal harbor]

Mainly relevant for Legendary rarity items

[wooden badger]

Considering most of the time it was only good for xp/orns when I used it I think you’re conflating
I killed probably 500 raids and maybe got 1 or 2 ornates in the times I had a crest AND the event going

[eternal harbor]

I don't think you're really trying to be constructive or objective here, so I'm not going to bother arguing.

It doesn't influence the ornate rate at all

It influences the chance an item drops

[wooden badger]

So how does it equal pay to win?

[wooden badger]

Which would also play a part into ornate chance, would it not?

[wooden badger]

We can all assume, but I’m asking legitimate questions. You can feel that way, but I’m just trying to understand how it’s seen as that.

I could understand the argument for followers being sold for money, or even gear(which was the point I was making)

It isn’t inherently p2w
It’s just increasing odds of drops.

[eternal harbor]

Imagine you worked for 100 Arisen Morrigan.

You kill those 100 without a crest of felling, you get on average 45 Arisen Fey Badb Catha
You kill those 100 with a crest of felling, you can on average 68 Arisen Fey Badb Catha

Because you paid for the crest, you get 50% more chances at an ornate from the raids compared to a player who did not pay IRL money

Crest = pay
More drops = win

[wooden badger]

And there’s one given for free on the free arch path, and 2 for the paid
And how are you going to say it doesn’t 5 minutes ago then use that as an example?

And I can say that math is all probability, as I just said earlier. I did about 500 raids with crests going, and got 2 ornates from it. It’s probability not guaranteed
It doesn’t say “guarantees ornates drops”

[eternal harbor]

All I said was that it didn't increase ornates directly

I'm sorry that your crests didn't work well for you, that doesn't mean it's not pay to win

Lootboxes are still pay to win when they give bad items

[dapper torrent]

Bro it's just what the community has decided is too far on the p2w pipeline. You could make the argument that most of the buyable items are p2w, for example skeleton keys being buyable could be p2w as you can farm more heads this event and thus get more chances at drops from Yel, but no one cares about that. It's really not a black and white issue

[eternal harbor]

Yeah, Orna has had a boatload of P2W creep the past few years

There's a reason quite a few people have quit over it

In December the community rallied over the crest as the hill to die on and I'm not going to just drop it now

[wooden badger]

Guaranteed is way different than increased, that’s the only point I was making. No need to get offended or act like they’re selling lootboxes dropping ornates
Because with that logic you’d think you’d argue against pets being available for purchase, free rewards on log in and the like but hey die on that hill

[glossy crow]

It's definitely a threshold of acceptance.

If NF sold 1 exp for irl money, some people would say it's p2w just on principle but most people would concede that it's not really p2w.
If NF sold instant-level-250 (2.4tril exp) for irl money, most people would say that that crosses a line and is clearly p2w.

So somewhere in between those two points, there is an amount of exp for sale which is unacceptable. Same is true for item drop rate, event access, materials, gear, etc.

[eternal harbor]

This basically sums up why I don't think you're arguing in good faith.

Objectively, it is literally paying for in-game progress. In most people's opinion the crest crossed a line because it influenced raid drops, which are otherwise not something you can pay for at all.

[wooden badger]

Assumptions
Don’t make arguments with assumptions

[eternal harbor]

There are no assumptions in that sentence

I said what I think, and the reason the community rallied in December

Do with that what you wish

I'm going to bed

[wooden badger]

You can’t express how someone else is thinking
That’s an assumption
Goodnight

[hidden mulch]

you legit get more chances for xyz with a crest

and if you have more crests that's just more rolls

that's what knight was saying

[proven basin]

It was never About Xp gold or orns it was always about Amorri Lyncus and hippogryph legendary stuff drop rates

[hidden mulch]

and no other alternatives in the game exist

[proven basin]

who cares about raids dropping these stuff

[teal fable]

I always enjoy when confronted with basic math that people just go "no bro, trust me, it's not pay to win cause I didn't get an ornate last time I used one"

[hidden mulch]

no need to stoop down to those levels

[wooden badger]

Since when is probability basic math? Since when is probability not based on chance? Since when does an item that increases the chance mean it’s guaranteed? That was my point
I’m sorry you got offended by my example but that’s how probability works. People get offended so easily and I’m clearly only trying to have a conversation

[hidden mulch]

?

when you have an item that just gives you more rolls on an item

that increases the chance of getting an ornate

when did anyone say it was guaranteed

[wooden badger]

And when I asked that Knight said no
My point was it would be p2w if it did that

[hidden mulch]

define p2w

[green flume]

Did the team change the amount of crests of felling in the paid archpath? there’s only one in the free and paid ones

[whole cave]

it already is a p2w (for most of us) even if it doesnt guarantee, each person has their own definition/tolerance to what p2w is

[hidden mulch]

2 in paid

[proven basin]

Last day is paid only

day10

[green flume]

oh it’s from the path itself

[green flume]

didnt see that sorry!

[wooden badger]

Paying money to not have to play to obtain your rewards
Lootboxes, the followers that you can just buy, that’s p2w

[hidden mulch]

ok maybe it's too much

unabbreviate p2w

[proven basin]

Would you say a 1 time purchase that gives you +50% Is Not a p2w? what about for a day? why would an hour be different?

outrageous example yes, but it's definitely P2w and the issue at hand even if it's for an hour

[wooden badger]

No I wouldn’t
Because it still could work out in that hour or day that you don’t get a drop
It’s still based on chance and RNG

[hidden mulch]

So say crest gave you a 65% chance at an item instead of 50%, if you kill an equal number of raids, doesn't the 65% roll give more chances at an item you desire

[hidden mulch]

Also this

[dapper torrent]

Guys he is not arguing in good faith just let him think what he wants lol

[wooden badger]

The fact that yall can’t accept someone else’s opinion is the problem. Don’t change the situation to try and make it sound worse or better
Stop conflating the argument

[hidden mulch]

i don't think you're getting the point

[wooden badger]

Or people can’t help but accept someone else’s view/opinion. and can’t help but make assumptions

[hidden mulch]

pls define p2w

like the actual words

unabbreviate it

[proven basin]

2 people putting the same effect would get drastically different results and it's wouldn't come to RNG Alone
The person with the buff have statistical advantage because of the purchase, if you can't see the point there no point in arguing

[wooden badger]

I already got the point ffs, I’m saying you aren’t changing my mind AND THATS OKAY

[hidden mulch]

ignorance isn't an excuse

there is no assumption here

by definition of pay to win, crests definitively give more chances at rare items

and that is inherently paying to win, as there is no other viable alternative

this is a definition

not an opinion

[wooden badger]

GIVE MORE CHANCES
Doesn’t guarantee! That’s the point
Not everyone’s experience will be the same!

[proven basin]

A purchase that gives the buyer an advantage over players who do not spend money

[hidden mulch]

and yet, you can drastically alter your chances by paying

alter, as in improve

improve, as in a greater chance of winning

fulfilling the name of "pay to win"

of course there are levels to this

but crests are the most damning

[static prairie]

Crests are damning? getting to about agony 10 literally has the same effect as a crest of felling.

[hidden mulch]

which is the entire point

[hidden mulch]

what

so 2 players at ang10, one with and one without crest

[proven basin]

it's playing the game, not a purchasable item

[hidden mulch]

one gets more

i don't see your point here, can you elaborate

[static prairie]

play the game a bit and you get a crest of felling permanently active. agony 10 isn't difficult anguish content either.

[hidden mulch]

key point, playing the game

you can do that, and use a crest

and the person with the crest gets more for the same actions

bump it up to the extreme, ang 40, same thing

[static prairie]

No, because you will max out raid luck for solo play before ang 40.

[hidden mulch]

but it takes more effort, correct

and you don't magically get to ang 40

[wooden nexus]

what about duo mori tho

[hidden mulch]

you have to raid to get there

[proven basin]

Have you tried hippogryph at anguish 10 btw?

[hidden mulch]

say duo is out of the equation for now, but yeah that's true too

[static prairie]

Yes.

[wooden nexus]

why are we ignoring duo its a major thing people do. they 50% raids for trades

[static prairie]

Asides from him randomly cleaving me for 130k when I am too lazy to swap off of snotra and he has all of his buffs and debuffs running, he isn't bad.

[hidden mulch]

yeah im aware

[proven basin]

no where of time investment as ang0

[hidden mulch]

it's just that in almost EVERY given scenario, crest gives an unfair advantage

[wooden nexus]

and when you have things that are legendary quality it takes more than crest of felling and felling event to guarentee those drops

[hidden mulch]

which i shouldn't even be saying

[proven basin]

like 60m hp? instead you can do the usual 2 or 3 times in the time it would take at ang0

[static prairie]

you are acting like this is a raid shadow legends level advantage. most of the gear you chase in raids isn't legendary rarity.

[wooden nexus]

but you dont get ang 10 rewards...?

[wooden nexus]

mori gear is

a.fey

[proven basin]

the crest in only relevant for Amori, hippogryph and Lyncus

[static prairie]

That is true, but those scrolls are limited. you get a bit more chance at ornate rolls when you go up the agony ladder, which imo is worth it.

[dapper torrent]

Any form of advantage you can get with money is a form of pay to win. That's not even debatable that's just what p2w means. It's just that the community has decided what level of p2w it's comfortable with and that is seemingly crests is too far. Like what even is this conversation

[hidden mulch]

fucking thank you

that was the entire point

idk why people didnt realize

[wooden nexus]

aaru anvils arent p2w tho

[proven basin]

correct and so is crest
A purchasable item that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money

[wooden nexus]

since all it does is speed up the time spent upgradging a single level

[proven basin]

They stack

[static prairie]

people realize, they just don't have even a quarter of the concern you have about it.

[hidden mulch]

we only tolerate the lesser p2ws because they aren't as game altering

[hidden mulch]

and that justifies it?

it's not like the community hasn't had this conversation before

refer to knight's messages on top

[static prairie]

I have like 8 crests sitting in my inventory without buying a single archpath, I'm too lazy to use them most of the time.

[hidden mulch]

,

[hidden mulch]

how does that justify anything again

[static prairie]

My bad, I didn't realize you wanted to shit all over any person who thought otherwise. Cheers.

[hidden mulch]

what

[wooden nexus]

no its not shitting on you its pointing out that just because you havent used yours doesnt mean its not p2w in an arch path

[hidden mulch]

i wanted an answer

not a personal anecdote

[wooden nexus]

its not an extreme version of p2w

but its still p2w

what bothers me most is that odie has yet to address this with us dispite it being mentioned and he already changed 2 things on the archpaths to make them work better for all players

[dapper torrent]

Idk now with the flairs and auras they will sell archpaths imo, there's no point pissing people off with crests if that's what people have decided they don't want in the archpaths. The new wyrmhunt aura was a good addition, it was enough to sell the archpath to me not the crests

[wooden nexus]

im considering buying the arch path for the aura

tho it would be cool if they threw in an older legendary skin from the event

like just 1 of the skins not the whole pack

[glossy lynx]

Responded here: #1400508525204996176 message

i was less involved with this one, so hard to comment.

I will say changing archpath rewards this far in is difficult, so it may just need to be a correction for next Wyrmhunt run

[wooden nexus]

gotcha i didnt see your responce

is it possible to make the day 10 a quest over a free reward?

like just unlock day 10 for everyone?

or maybe swap day 9 and 10 rewards

[glossy lynx]

No, then folk that purchased it may feel rug pulled

[glossy crow]

the challenge would be that people may have already spent money with the expectation of getting the item.

[wooden nexus]

theyre also getting 10 of every head an aura and 20 scrolls

just for final reward

and imo you buy the arch path for final rewards not days 1-10

anyways is it feasible to swap day 9 and 10s rewards

could do quest and all

[hidden mulch]

what's done is done, but i think it'll help if we draw a line in the sand for the future

[wooden nexus]

also theyd be getting the item reguardless its not like we are removing the item from the path just making it non p2w for that

[dapper torrent]

Say someone bought the archpath JUST for the crest and don't care about the other rewards, then they feel cheated that they paid money but could have got it for free.

[wooden nexus]

they got an aura and 5x the heads every one else did as well as 15 more scrolls

they might have payed for the crest but they get more than just a crest

and still this only further proves that the item is p2w

[dapper torrent]

You're not getting the point

[wooden nexus]

if its impactful enough to make or break buying the path then its p2w and needs fixed reguardless

and the point is its 8 $ for the pass if you spent 8$ for 1 item then youre crazy

[dapper torrent]

I paid $8 just for the aura, guess I'm crazy LOL

[wooden nexus]

thats actually worth it seeing as its not a 1 time use item

[hidden mulch]

ive seen worse

[wooden nexus]

the crest is 1x use

you dont get to reuse it

or keep it after it runs out

thats why 8$ for an item is crazy but 8$ for a cosmetic is normalized

[dapper torrent]

I get what you're saying but you have to be able to look at the situation from what someone else may think, not everyone thinks like you do

[wooden nexus]

everyone else should also understand that the devs fucked up and didnt think about how it could inpact the playerbase

[dapper torrent]

A crest might be worth it for some people

[wooden nexus]

not for 8$

maybe for .99$

but its a buff that is limited

[dapper torrent]

Let's be real $8 is nothing, I pay more than that in energy drinks in a day and I make very very average money. Someone who makes a lot more might find more value in the crest than in the $8, whereas someone who makes no money is obviously going to value the $8 more

[wooden nexus]

people dont spend much more than the buff is worth without also having reason to spend that much

[hidden mulch]

consider not gunning down 2 drinks a day lmao

[dapper torrent]

I gave up drugs alcohol and cigarettes, I let myself keep this one vice lol

[wooden nexus]

yah you spend more on energy drinks but thats cuz you drink more than 1 of them per day. as for what you consider average money thats subjective to the area you live and what is afordable

[dapper torrent]

Yeah see you're getting the point now, it's subjective

[wooden nexus]

the buff isnt worth 8$ no one would consider spending 8$ on a >1 day buff

[hidden mulch]

again, subjective

[dapper torrent]

I've spent more on less tbh

[hidden mulch]

we're getting off track

[dapper torrent]

So whats the best raid to spend my crest on lol

[hidden mulch]

off the top of my head
tamer -> shield
lyncus -> bristle
amorri -> amorri

[crude surge]

Oh just a chance? Interesting. Ill keep that in mind on a different day to jump to your land! Thank you!

[crude surge]

Im tier 6

[wooden nexus]

youll only beable to see a potential 3/4 dragon pets

[dusk imp]

So i am lvl 224 nearly 225 summoner, what should i Focus on this event?

[wooden nexus]

possibly trying to get the gear from yelvbeghen for summoner if you intend to stay summoner

[dusk imp]

Currently Just going with the meta to progress asap haha, so class doesnt really matter to me

But for now, gonna stay summoner

Thanks

[dapper torrent]

I think you'll have a hard time doing the event towers as a fresh t10. The normal bosses spawn in dungeons and in the world and drop good gear though. Try and get the pets and summons if you can

[ocean wadi]

Doing the codexing for this event as a summoner can be complicated, but getting through the quest line ASAP to get the better gear from better later dragons can be a huge plus.

[dusk imp]

Ahh alright, trying my best

Thank you all

So maybe better safe keys for next wyrmhunt

[ocean wadi]

Plus the Beithir staff can be fun to play with as a summoner. Summon your own bone dragon that then summons weaker copies of itself.

[dusk imp]

Ahh i see i see

[ocean wadi]

Yeah, don't worry about the keys until you can clear towers regularly. Just focus on the dungeons. Usually in December we go back through all the events for 3 days each. So hopefully you can be T10 by then and just need to codex the last 2 dragons to be able to farm them also. Those last 2 dragons have gear that's great for all classes.

From this event the Vitra charm and the coiled shield can be very useful at your level and beyond.

[dusk imp]

Ahh okay, then i will do it like this
Until Dezember t10 should not be a Problem and getting a few gear already

[eternal harbor]

I know you're busy Odie, but this was raised early in the event as a concern and NF chose not to address it early

#1400544618805727292 was created just over two hours after the event began and the Crest was the first point on the list when it was written

I don't know if I should just give up on the anti-p2w crusade and just accept that Orna is a GPS game with p2w elements? Obviously it's still not as egregious as the worst of the worst on the play store, but we did leave behind Orna being a game with almost no p2w a long time ago.

[dusk imp]

Whats so p2w about the crest?

So is this soo Powerful?

[proven basin]

it's a purchasable item that give you an advantage over non paying players

Also when it was introduced in December players rioted over it harder than now but we were promised (don't remember the exact wording) it won't be a problem and here we are

[reef crystal]

#1400508525204996176 message

[dusk imp]

Hm i see i see , but only related to this little Bonus for giving a Company little bit of cash for the General develompent

Ofc its p2w but also not that much to be so worried about

[hexed crest]

na, nothing to be worried indeed.

[pale root]

The most annoying thing about the debuffs in tower chests is when I'm trying to open the door puzzle but the interact button opens the chest in the next room (which ofc has starstruck or Drakeblight)

[dusk imp]

And 8€ is no money at all😅

Related to Just purchasing a game of 70€ nowadays

[dapper torrent]

I mean I agree that the crest itself isn't that big of a deal, but you have to draw a line somewhere of what's an acceptable level of p2w otherwise it will just keep creeping in further and further. Crest is as good of a place as any to draw the line

And with the new cosmetics systen they really don't need to go down the p2w route

[glad wolf]

How do you guys feel about additional equipment sets? It doesn't give a real advantage in terms of items or anything, but the longer you play the more you need them, the time you save from just paying I think it's honestly more of an issue that a crest per month

[dapper torrent]

That's more of a convenience than an advantage. You can just manually swap your gear out and it takes like 10 more seconds

[whole cave]

I see no problem with it as its just a qol ||thinking of buying more of it as its "needed more" in ang 2.0||

[primal onyx]

Slippery slope

[glad wolf]

I think we can all agree that it's a convenience, but with the game growing and adding different types of activities that need completely different builds, the time you spend adds up really fast. Also since it isn't something that you can earn with currency in game it's a bit p2w.

[primal onyx]

Buying 12x archpath latchstones alone, is ~60e but not the thread to discuss that. Im only saying, dont assume that everyone can or is willing to spend money for such purchases

[dapper torrent]

Idk how many gear sets you're using but isn't there already a default of 5 sets? I don't even use all my sets and I've only bought like 3

Like you don't need a whole gear slot just for a weapon swap

[glad wolf]

Sometimes to change a weapon, you have to change your spells too, and your amity. By simply paying for more space with 2 clicks you don't need to do all that

[dapper torrent]

Idk I just can't agree that gear slots are a worse problem than increasing your raid drops by 50%. One of those is way more immediately advantageous than the other

[glad wolf]

The thing is that you can obtain crests as a f2p, but you cant get sets. That's why i think this is a bigger issue

[finite perch]

monumental candle is included in this mth's event pack btw

[eternal harbor]

Early on, back when Orna's only "P2W" thing was shrines, buyable increased equipment sets were an example repeatedly asked for by the playerbase as something that wasn't P2W and would support the devs 😆

[glad wolf]

Yeah but shrines is something that you can get in game for free, i guess when you guys drew the line on what p2w is, equipment sets werent a big of an issue as they are now. And since its something that cant get without paying that arguably does give you an advantage, its p2w.

[primal onyx]

I see your point but remember, as Knight already pointed out, the timeline matters a lot here

Back then, the community was happier and more eager to support the growth of the Studio

[eternal harbor]

I don't see any way that buyable equipment sets are P2W

It is entirely Qol and gives no in-game advantages

The crest is P2W because it literally gives you bonus raid rewards

[dapper torrent]

Still happy to support the studio btw. Sell me cosmetics though

[primal onyx]

At some point, lots of us started feeling like the monetization of in game items took a really wrong turn and ripples of that are still heard today

Supporting indie games like this is i believe one of the lifebloods of modern gaming

At the same time, i can still criticize something i support

[eternal harbor]

Yeah, obviously at some point the studio decided that cosmetics weren't paying enough and they needed to sell more in-game advantages.

As players all we can really do is fight against the most egregious ingame advantages if the studio is going to try and add them.

[dapper torrent]

The new auras and flairs is a good start of moving to a more cosmetic based form of support

[primal onyx]

I was really happy with Grinding Gear Games PoEs model, practically cosmetics and bank slots

[glad wolf]

I mean we can all agree that is something veeery useful to have, and with it being something that you can't get unless you pay for it, thats p2w in my book.

[primal onyx]

Actually we get 4 of them for free

[eternal harbor]

I do see your argument, I just don't agree, that's fair enough

Can we agree that buyable equipment slots are a lesser evil than a lot of the other P2W items sold recently?

[primal onyx]

Can we agree on the terminology that equipment slots is QoL not P2W? 😆

Feels like it will be lot less confusing

[eternal harbor]

I don't think they're P2W at all, but Melenitas does, and regardless I don't think it's something worth arguing about for the Wyrmhunt convo 😅

[glad wolf]

Is there somewhere were we can?

[eternal harbor]

I mean, we could make a #1084643200725164062 that will probably supplant the Anguish or Spiked Shield threads as Odie's least favorite discussion thread to exist

But at the moment I'm really only interested in focusing on getting the Wyrmhunt archpath rectified. I don't think "It's kind of late to change it now" is a valid argument given that the option to change it early was presented and ignored.

[glad wolf]

I mean the harm is done, people that paid already got the crest(or have the chance to get it), the only thing you can do is add one to the free version on day 10

[eternal harbor]

Yeah, basically the option is swapping the day 9 and 10 rewards

If the studio was afraid of people being upset that they already bought the key, they really could've changed that about 2 hours into the event when the issue was raised

[glad wolf]

Is crest EoD btw?

[eternal harbor]

No, it's exclusively from Archpaths

From every other path prior to this it has been available to paid and free players from the end of path reward

Except for the early run of the December path, when there was huge player outcry and it got changed

[primal onyx]

Since it wasnt "too late" to "adjust" SS and Gilga gameplay after having players pour days of their real time into making builds that are now invalid, its certainly not too late to change the archpath

[primal onyx]

Pretty sure The Creator has Steadfast 3 and hopefully welcomes people challenging his views

[frank fog]

Yep man I did 20 dungeons of which 15 with crest and +1% chest yesterday and nothing. Still nothing today. Gf chance feels like shit since anguish 2. Said it yesterday in the general.

[glad wolf]

I mean yeah I totally agree that it is considered p2w, however I don't see it being something so important, we basically get 1 for free each month, we now got monthly events that with the exact same effect and anguish raids ( which I think everyone is doing) increase luck by a lot to the point that luck for raids its less important.

The point I was trying to make with equipment sets its a different form of p2w, where its more predatory monetization rather than p2w itself. I think this is present in orna since the very beginning of the game where you select a faction and the only way to change it is to pay. This is something that affects every deity player for example since to get every spell of the class you have to pay this change 4 times.
If HoC was something that you could only buy for real money and it wasn't available in every guild, I think we would riot over it whenever there was a balance patch. It doesn't give any advantage in the game, but if it wasn't available to buy using in-game currency it would be a problem, it's the same thing with equipment sets, I think they are "needed" at the point the game is at, where you have so many different types of content, having only 4 as a f2p feels bad and the only way to get more is to pay.
As a f2p is 4 sets enough at the current state of the game? You can argue that it is enough, but how about 3 or 2? Not having access to them unless you pay even if its only a usefull comodity feels kinda bad from a f2p perspective. I can totally understand that maybe its a big part of the revenue of the game.
however i think it would be a good change to add it into the guild shops at the same price proportionally to HoC.

[gleaming flume]

#🏆│triumph-and-tragedy message

[frank fog]

Well… let’s ask Odie to rectify RNG 🥹

[static raven]

Tbh i have had good time as f2p

Only bought sprites

[primal onyx]

Been f2p (excluding faction swaps and some shrines probably) from the beginning til archpaths, i loved the badges idea being only latchstone available.
Its purely cosmetic and its a nice way to support the studio. At the same time i was seriously considering not buying it at all seeing how monetization is going down the "p2w" road.
Though its not exactly about the wyrmhunt event, im not sure if it is actually completely out of context, since its about the events archpaths and how events handle archpaths as a whole

[south prairie]

What's all this have to do with Wyrmhunt? Shouldn't it be it's own discussion again?

[glossy crow]

it can be broken out into its own discussion, but the archpath for the event is on topic for the event. 🤷‍♂️

[south prairie]

Yeah but it's still an archpath in its own. I figured this is more or less about the event not the archpath itself which affects other events

Was just being curious lol

[glossy crow]

The event is many things 😅 not just the new tower, new boss and his gear. also the archpath, the sprites, event mechanics, and so on.

[south prairie]

Oh no I get that but it's mostly discussing the reward in the path itself. I get it was just wondering why its not its own thing since it's such a big deal in debating vs leaving this to just the actual event and systems that deal with wyrmhunt directly

[jovial yew]

Surprised no one talked about these bad boys, this is a summoners dream in p2w format, not complaining though studio needs money so if they have QOL items for money I don't see a huge problem, with enough grind/class you can do basically anything a p2w could achieve on this game so far, that hasn't changed

Regarding the event though beithir summon needs a rework badly, along the lines it wouldn't have hurt if yel gave us a new summon instead of brilliant lights copy for summoners

[glossy lynx]

I do think it would be best to draw comparisons that involve real world transactions

[reef crystal]

I wouldn’t really call this item P2W. You get no real benefits for codexing monsters (exception made to the first time you complete the wyrmhunt quest line) besides a badge in your profile

[jovial yew]

I mean there is throne makers quest, wyrmhunt quest, anything involved in codexing it's a huge time skip, kinda how dragon Crest is also just a time skip, both of similar values for different scenarios

[eternal harbor]

We're not talking about the Crest of the Dragon slayer, the discussion was about the Crest of the Felling

The Crest of the Felling is a resource skip, as opposed to a time skip

[reef crystal]

My PoV is:
Time skipped while codexing -> QoL
Getting more drops per super raid summoned -> P2W

[eternal harbor]

I can totally understand codexers being a little annoyed at the kit existing though

All that waiting around hundreds of turns for a skill the monster refuses to use 😆

[jovial yew]

All summoners I'd recommend buying those kits lmao

[eternal harbor]

The codexing kit does give an ethical way to codex the few remaining Pyre though which is cool

If someone can find one...

It also may have merit for codexing "uncodexable" monsters in the future. So anyone who's serious about codexing should save the 25 they got from day 1 of the Archpath

[kind relic]

Wonder if it can be used with the coral

[eternal harbor]

Coral was codexable though

Just... annoying

[kind relic]

No yeah, but since you aren't really fighting it

[eternal harbor]

Konq and I tried to codex summons using it but unfortuantely there's no PvP scenario where you can use items and the kit can't be used on allied summons

Confused also can't cause you to target an ally with an item, unlike Coral

[kind relic]

True

[primal onyx]

I use my time to farm orna. I use my time to farm money. I use my money to farm orna faster but when the benefits are lost, (see removal of CoF from day 10) i feel "robbed". Why? Because i lost my money and thus time i gave to earn that money. Time is a priceless resource. Whats equally annoying is seeing your efforts (again time spent ingame) invalidated.

Granted im mad salty about my gilga doing 1/3 the damage with the same gear i used to run so that particular comment was meant to provoke by pulling somehow of a strawman, but it think you get the similarities in these cases.

Having said all that, i deeply appreciate you are reading all our msgs 🙂

[shy marsh]

I think you care too greatly over what amounts to nothing.

A one hour buff to raid kill rewards is negligible, especially for the try hards and sweats.

The Most upsetting thing is having paid purchases change after being paid for. It's happened once, and it's anti consumer and not acceptable.

Has there ever been an instance wherein someone else getting a rare drop or extra mats actually had an affect on your account ?

I haven't and have a hard time understanding the animosity towards paid buffs.

[shy marsh]

Literally sometimes

[glossy crow]

have a hard time understanding the animosity towards paid buffs
Just the usual anti-p2w argument: people get enough of dealing with money in the real world and video games are an escape from that. It breaks the illusion of escapism when irl money plays a part in the gameplay.

[wanton silo]

We have reached the point where more equipment sets is now p2w 🫠🫠🫠 chat we are cooked

[glossy lynx]

While I understand this, the argument of time as an investment can go pretty far. If we use it, does it not infer that nothing in the game can ever change - as all players have invested time into all parts of the game?

(not debating, just thought experimenting)

[primal onyx]

Sure, it certainly depends on how we define the spectrum of investment. What would be "fair" deciding factors? Would that be money?Time? Lets break it down further to an imaginary example of "i make 1 dollar an hour" to make the scenario easier if you agree(?). So it takes 5 hours of my life to buy a latchstone so i can get the extra goodies, and specifically CoF. Now compare that to farming high quality BiS ornates/adornments (lets not get amity hunting in to this, since it can take from no to immense investment to get them) for months waiting for the proper event, farming the event mobs to get the scrolls, finding people to duo the raid etc etc, and then you get hit with such a major character "identity" shock. That 5 potentially "lost" dollars or hours of effort is gone. Its fine, it actually feels fair to me because it builds trust to the studio and their values for not steering into monetizing crucial elements of the game. On the other end of the spectrum we are talking literally hundreds if not thousand of hours just poof, gone for an upleasant change.
I wanna clarify that im not arguing, im trying to follow in your thought experiment, hopefully i followed 😁 Having said that at the same time, though i disagree with some of the recent NF decisions, its certainly really hopeful and speaks volumes that you communicate like that and i think i can speak for many of us when i say that we really appreciate that.

On a relevant note can we maaaybe address how it would be better to rollback all recent spiked shield and gilga changes and just start adding resistances and maybe even immunities (pls no) to SS, if it is that really big of a balance problem, to random new and already existing mobs to make us pay more attention to the screen while dealing with enemies in game rather than opening a thousand tabs on our browsers minmaxing new builds? 😆

[sharp parrot]

Fourteen currently, will probably add more soon.

[wooden nexus]

does someone cheating effect youre account or anything that you do?

[wooden nexus]

ss builds do not need to go back to what they were the nerf was needed and justified you might have spent hrs making a build but thats called playing the game you play the build you like the meta changes and nerfs occur. ss3 was an issue on all classes not just gilga and thus got nerfed hard. from what ive seen gilgas are still capable of getting damage cap via ss3 its just gonna take build knowledge and adapting to get there

[south prairie]

Make the crest of felling cost as much as a HoC in shards or anguish proofs. Problem solved. Same as any oddities in the game like that and say Aaru anvils. Make them purchaseable in game with vast amounts of materials. Could you buy them very rarely with rl money? Yes, but it's available via game currency as well.

[wooden nexus]

downvote this kekw. i like certian buffs being equal for everyone avalibility and all it doesnt require someone to mega grind for it while others it would be equal to their normal grind times i like the idea that money really doesnt buy any advantages in the game. sure you have a few extra scrolls or a few extra dms maybe some boss remains but you dont get better odds that someone else does for paying.

[frank fog]

It will take to be ascension 9999999999 you mean.

[shy marsh]

It can; fake location settlement takeovers or OT harassment of yesteryear are real examples.

[wooden nexus]

nah it wont take all that much to damage cap you just gotta learn how to bof better and how to build for ss3 now. you only need a couple hundered ward like 300k max for most things and then you run pure attack setup with a polly y head piece and possibly some boots from polly y with beastfelled chest and a beguilled axe and a sgs

[gleaming flume]

(For what I saw, gilga is quite strong, and may be best on mid+/high ang 2.0 contents like dungeons (and raids))

[wooden nexus]

and someone using bots to fish or world farm or kill raids?

youre arguement is that because it doesnt effect your ability to play the game yourself that it shouldnt matter

yet people who bot dont effect anyone but its still bannable

[shy marsh]

I don't follow your logic

CoF aren't bannabale or even in the p2w category. Please stay on track.

[wooden nexus]

your arguement is "does it effect your account if someone else pays for this"

does someone botting to farm more efficiently effect your accout?

[shy marsh]

Someone getting 15% extra opportunity for raid drops is far different from cheating or harassing other players.

[wooden nexus]

cof is in the p2w category currently

read what i said

spoofing wasnt listed

[shy marsh]

Botting isn't CoF, your logic is is deliberately obtuse. Have a good day, this isn't a discussion.

[south prairie]

Technically any botting, spoofing, etc affect's everyones accounts because leaderboards exist 🤷

[shy marsh]

Affects server performance too

[wooden nexus]

botting is the equivalent to p2w

[south prairie]

Indeed

[wooden nexus]

the majority of the playerbase views p2w as kinda cheating

[shy marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/so-hes-an-idiot-avengers-gif-15422380

[wooden nexus]

either of the things dont effect other people or thier account

[south prairie]

You high?

[wooden nexus]

but 1 of them is an unfair advantage

[south prairie]

Both of them affect people lol

[shy marsh]

Obvious troll plz ignore

[wooden nexus]

while the other that has been f2p is now becoming p2w and is considered unfair for people who dont spend money on the game

leaderboards shouldnt really mean anything to anyone because its a videogame boting doesnt directly effect your ability to play and by this guys logic of allowing cof to be p2w then botting shouldnt be bannable

that is the point im making

[shy marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/солдаты-неудачи-дебил-джек-трейлер-бен-стиллер-слабоумие-gif-5945777314258034739

[frank fog]

My mum 25 years ago told me to work hard at school so I could afford buying flairs and sprites in orna. I’m happy I did 🥹

[wooden nexus]

if you wana make cof which was a f2p item p2w then why do we care about what some one else does to enjoy the game

[south prairie]

So allowing people to bot doesn't affect me when someone can bot 24/7 and get everything faster etc and just slap around in PvP and reign on leaderboards? You sir are out of your mind. Botting affects everyone here as well as p2w items

[wooden nexus]

thats the point im making dude

it effects people

not in a way that effects your account

but in a way that effects the playerbases speed

sir dro just doesnt understand that making cof p2w is a very very bad idea

[frank fog]

Fish botting is the most profitable because of how the mats are priced. Go with 500 fish a day and enjoy free ALs. Yep it does affect people.

[wooden nexus]

the entire time ive not been fighting for botting to be permitted but for cof to be free for everyone

[shy marsh]

It's not exclusively paid for... so your idea is flawed imho

[south prairie]

My account is me 😂. My consensus is here that bots are cheating and unfair to everyone as well as p2w. If anyone thinks otherwise they are clueless and clearly not all there.

[wooden nexus]

currently its in the paid path

you get 2 hrs for paying

vs my 1 hr for not paying

try again

[glossy lynx]

So about those dragons

[shy marsh]

It has been in free and will be again after this shit show

[wooden nexus]

odie this is in a roundabout way about the event

[wooden badger]

They’re dragging that’s for sure

[wooden nexus]

the archpath

can we please just swao day 9 and tens spots and be done with it

[south prairie]

I tried awhile ago. This should be its own discussion thread lol

[primal forge]

has this thread talked anything about dragons these past few days

[green flume]

I have a small question, why does yelbeghen drop a better monster tome when it’s mainly meant for endgame players?

[south prairie]

Why my dragons drop no staff? Why no anguish items from big dragon!?

[green flume]

most likely they’ll be 250 already right?

[eternal harbor]

Farming the Overleveled achievement

It's the new best in slot

[south prairie]

Agreed but it's great for higher ups to power level lowbies as well

At 225 and up

[glossy lynx]

We definitely validate the feedback that perhaps crest of the felling should have equal numbers in the paid and free tracks. But, it will need to be a change for the next run of the event, given folk have made real life purchases as a direct result

All sides of the debate have been heard!

[south prairie]

Code for (1) crest of felling : Back2Drags

[green flume]

I suppose, but I feel like compared to the other drops it’s not that great to get for most people

[glossy crow]

Should players expect to see Crests of Felling in future paid archpath rewards? Just to set our expectations and put the topic to bed, since "what to do about the current archpath" is already a done deal.

[eternal harbor]

Is there any downside to it existing?

An additional drop doesn't harm the other drops

[halcyon crescent]

New Reminder | ID:82652570

Alright knight, I'll remind you in 4 months and 27 days about:

Ask Odie about the Crest of the Felling in the Wyrmhunt archpath before the next run

[green flume]

nono it’s fine I just never thought about people going out of their way to farm the achievement lol

[frank fog]

I’ve got a question… why does GF seems so low nowadays Odie.. god damn it’s been 20+ dungeons out of which 12 with crest and not a single GF on 3 gear 🥹🥹

[wooden nexus]

unlucky

[gleaming flume]

Multiple Gear doesn't affect gf chance (in case)

[wooden nexus]

no but crest of dragons does

[primal forge]

a curse from the anti-RNGesus

[wooden nexus]

and having gf aura on every floor basicallyt does

[gleaming flume]

Thank you for the gf tutorial, not really needed tho 🙏🏻

[wooden nexus]

i only pointed out that the odds of gf should technically go up due to this

something with like probablity vs chance

[frank fog]

I meant 3 gf piece have got each chance to roll

[wooden nexus]

no its 1 chance to gf somehting per floo r

not 3 chances per gf floor

[astral flax]

It would be nice to have the crest show how much it boosts gf chances. I've had better luck without it than with it

[wooden nexus]

you cant double gf

[glossy crow]

first it rolls "should something godforge at all?" then it rolls "which piece, of possible pieces, should gf"

[gleaming flume]

20*70 = 1400. Let's say.... Something around 1/3 to 1/2 are gf aura boss I guess, a bit more maybe. It's 700. That's unlucky, but on the other hand we tend to mention those unlucky run more than the time we gf 2 pieces on first dungeon so. Rng I guess, as overall it seems to work fine for others

[frank fog]

Ah dang

I thought it was each item that could gf

I stand corrected thanks

That’s why I thought it was very low

[wooden nexus]

yep its 1 roll per floor should i, should i not

[frank fog]

I thought I was smart trying to gf everything at the same time 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

I’ve been thinking that for 5 years rofl

[wooden nexus]

i personally dont gf things solo

i tell my friend to carry me while i put on as many items as i can to gf

if i get lucky i get everything gf same dungeon

if im not lucky it takes him and i 400 dungeons just to see a single gf between the 2 of us

[reef crystal]

This. I think a definitive, official stance would help put players’ concerns to rest

[gleaming flume]

Feel free to join Pop and I for a quick run to GF if you feel too. Some people on LB may have done shitty botting things but there are some legit you can join for runs ^^

[wooden nexus]

i agree with this it would be frustrating if they do it again but at the end of the day theyll do what theyre gonna do reguardless

[jovial yew]

I do wanna say for the most part I appreciate this event

The new yel gear helps my summon builds tremendously and my main complaints as a GSA main, I hope to see some use of beithir or rework of some sort but besides that the event regardless is pretty fun

[primal onyx]

Ye i was joking about this part. It would be quite the irony if i was asking to force the players who have already adapted to the new requirements dance back and forth 😛

My point around SS and Gilga is not to let it be as is, but to make less bumpy adjustments. Yes i believe the new build is nice and can be even equal if not better to the old gilga but again, there seems to be some questions marks when we have again itemized towards CD and frenzy now exists.

What i didnt like was that i am forced to make a major build adjustment to lose all armour on THE armour class.

Being essentially "stranded" with 1/2 if not 1/3 of my previous efficiency im currently better off farming with Swangsong (making Swansong and similar AoE mage meganukes another questionable subject) until i can activate swash on what used to be a close to perfect minmaxxed no brain Bonk Bonk warrior char 😛

Cheers!

[ocean wadi]

Could the Yelmogus Greatsword's offhand ability be replaced with Cleave please? Upward strike letting you attack every other turn with a chance of up to 2 targets really doesn't compare to the other weapons.

[dapper torrent]

Yeah a CHANCE to hit a 2nd target is kind of a joke compared to brilliant lights 2. With bad rng it can take you 5 turns to kill a pack, and even with good rng it's 3 turns, when the mage just guaranteed clears in 1 turn.

[reef crystal]

Mages getting an improved BL2 staff, the premium AoE skill, that also doubles as a booster weapon while melees keep complaining about lack of AoE options is kind of funny

[dapper torrent]

Yes we see the mage favoritism

[jovial yew]

I would like to see a full AOE clear for warrior too honestly

Like a full swing of some sort

[dapper torrent]

Bro at this point I would legit be happy if they just made slice always hit 2 targets lol

[jovial yew]

Make gilgas guts from beserk lmao

[eternal harbor]

I keep suggesting a dragon version of Envy for the melee weapons, we'll see if that agenda goes through 😆

(unlikely, but you never know)

My main argument is that even Dragon Envy would suck compared to BL2

[dapper torrent]

That would be best case scenario probably. Would like to see at least SOME form of love for melee AOE though

[winged shard]

U wanna see a class went against it's nature? 🤣

[jovial yew]

I mean I don't think not having viable AOE options defines that class's nature lmao

Personally I'm a GSA main, doesn't effect me, but warriors have gotten so much debuffs lately, they need some more viable builds then SS3 lmao

[dapper torrent]

It's a 2 handed weapon so it would be a tradeoff anyway. Lose a bunch of ward in exchange for AOE. Seems fair

[halcyon forge]

Gib melee better aoe

Difference between elementless full target vs arcane bound or hit 1+ is unbelievably, laughably large

I mean even if envy was just vanilla physical element it would be so much better than what we have now

Yet be still way worse of bl2 or swansong hybrid

[gleaming flume]

Just in case, to share some perspective specific to Gilga : what I can see on mid/high mel tend to make me think Gilga may be top for this content currently.

[dapper torrent]

I'd rather see the current event weapons improved tbh. The staffs are an amazing chase weapon for mage but the melee ones are like "cool its ymir brilliant feathers but with orn bonus", which isn't bad tbh but it's nowhere even close to as desirable as the new staves

[eternal harbor]

I don't really see any way that Gilga would/could be better at Melancholy than Deity

[gleaming flume]

Because you don t see mid high mel

That's exactly the same for ang1.0. People use to forget Gilga was on top (silently !) for ang 1.0 dungeons prior to the 2h update

[eternal harbor]

That was with Chained Shield and CD

[gleaming flume]

And, to add some thought, that's also one of the reason why I hate the ang 2.0 recent update : it's not seen much currently as it will just take time, but it was supposed to be - I guess - full AOE on lower mel as best for some classes, CS+col on gilga (if I summarize)

Now, with people having access to full AL for now loss, you ll just see people pushing as much as possible with full AOE just because of free access to AL

[eternal harbor]

You said your issue was at high mel though, where players have access to full AL regardless

[gleaming flume]

= good luck with balance topic and so on in like 3/4 months

[halcyon forge]

Whatever the case I dont think anything melee has compares to the yel staff with bl2+boosts. Idc if gilga with als is good, as a melee (and rs) I feel frustrated

Simply none whatsoever

Honestly stopped playing the game at all. Maybe its a rs problem not a melee problem idk

[eternal harbor]

Goudine, is your issue actually with Gilga/RS getting a better melee AoE than it has currently (but still worse than BL2), or is it with Anguish 2.0 as a whole and not related to this request?

[gleaming flume]

That's not what I m saying (and what you said here is partly wrong too because of the shack change too). What I m saying is if you offer a way (unschack) allowing to benefit from all AL + if you don't clean the stupid AL cheese available, what was intended is just dead, and efficiency route will just be to push Al to keep aoe clean on highest ang possible, ans that's about it.

[dapper torrent]

You're talking about content that the top 0.1% (if that) of players are pushing, I would rather content that the majority of people are going to see be balanced than the top of the top of meta play 🤷‍♂️

[jovial yew]

Meanwhile summoner with yel gear

[gleaming flume]

It's absolutely linked Knight, as you can't separate those 2 topics

[jovial yew]

Doubt many will see the top 10% of players, hard to balance what was meant to be used as a limit breaker ( AL )

[gleaming flume]

And top 1% in 1 month, top 10% in 2 months and so on. A system that doesn't show all his weakness in the first days doesn't mean it's a good system. Threads will just appear a bit later, as it - to me - can't work properly. My thought : you ll see (tbh, you see if you re not blind) first some dudes pushing for cheesable things to push AL even further, to prepare to trivialize content on the highest ang lvl possible. That's about it.

[eternal harbor]

Adding a better melee AoE that is worse than BL2 does not push anything farther.

If someone wants to max out AoE right now all they need to do is HoC to Deity and use BL2

[gleaming flume]

And you re again wrong

Sorry Knight

I m absolutely ok with aoe for melee, that's just fair and fine

[eternal harbor]

Goudine, I think you're wrong, that was the point of that sentence refuting you saying that it is linked.

That's how a discussion works lol

[gleaming flume]

Bl2 and greatstaff is absurdly strong, and in a shackles World it may be a good thing as it would allow full AOE on mid but not on high, and Deity would shine on it while others may shine on other things (like Gilga on CS+col on higher ang)

[eternal harbor]

I am not trying to push the envelope on total player power further, I'm suggesting to expand the options below the top end.

[dapper torrent]

Yeah sorry I agree with Knight. Allowing melee players to AOE worse than Deity is not pushing the top end

[eternal harbor]

The alternative option would be nerfing BL2, and you're welcome to push that if you'd like.

I'm choosing not to throw gasoline on that fire

[gleaming flume]

Again, I m totally fine with more melee aoe options, especially for RS. If Swan+bof seems promising, it's not fun imo that it may be the best option to have this weap (mag related) as best for rs ❤️

[halcyon forge]

Why deities try to keep everyone else down is a mystery. You guys are the top dogs at virtually all content… Weren’t most deities arguing “don’t nerf deity, buff other classes instead”

Now we try to make melee aoe a bit better (just removing arcane etc) and we already see “oh no gilga with hyper al’s can push mel super up and be good”

Exhausting

Really really close to quitting the game as rs, can’t imagine how gs feel (are there any left?)

[gleaming flume]

I could, but no reason to do it as for now, AL solve issue. Yes I don't like Bl2 thing for now. They should reduce - imho - greatstaff stat to a Trev, and reduce a Trev. But again for now, it just doesn't matter much, as no one will run schackle on mel, so it's just a matter of how much Al you re ready to push

[gleaming flume]

Are you refering to me?
I m all good with melee aoe

I m not good with current system

Bl2 is stupid is the current system

Melee aoe will be stupid too

[halcyon forge]

Sorry I was just maybe misunderstanding bc I dont know how gilgas being good with cs at high anguish has much to do about two handed aoe skill parity

My bad

[gleaming flume]

I may be on the side to change system and keep those aoe rather than keeping those aoe in the current system 🫣

But yes, I absolutely and totally understand why RS now could feel 😱 when they saw the updated version of A Trev on the new event loot.

[eternal harbor]

Yeah you came into this convo seemingly refuting the suggestion

So that's where the misunderstanding came from

[gleaming flume]

System talk aside, give RS something that at least feel more RS, as it's a bit sad seing them swaning

[dapper torrent]

Swanning? Bruh I'm still slicing

[halcyon forge]

Reality is swanning is only possible with high al’s for rs bc our crap magic. Literally most just slice or arcane envy

Hence why we’re super touchy about the aoe subject… you simply cant put deity aoe and rs in the same sentence

[elder sun]

Since towers released my full AoE go to choice was magic dance / later swansong

[gleaming flume]

Bof swan seems really strong for at least low mel. Can't ping him as I don't know his discord name but Dano use it IIRC and @fleet sluice too with great results. Tho, it's absolutely fair to say it s probably ⬇️ compared to Bl2 madness, and sad if the best aoe option for melee is not melee

[halcyon forge]

So while most of us envy and get immuned all the mages are elementless nuking everything while getting resource boosts

And odie tells us we can just avidity through 😆. I want to quit. (Virtually have but cant get myself to delete app)

[dapper torrent]

Also the reality is Gilga CS at least has the upside of being tanky AF, RS slicers are lucky to have 100k ward and can easily die on medium anguish on a bad pack

[gleaming flume]

I ve never said and will never say it's the same. My point is :

• Bl2 is broken, especially in a system allowing keeping huge rewards for unschack content
• it would absolutely be fair to add RS melee aoe, and it would be as broken
• I would prefer to have another system, rather than what will become "SEE ! SEE MY BIG AL AND MY BIG UNSCHACK AOE"

So sorry if it seems I don't want aoe melee. It's again, absolutely understandable to feel 🫣 as RS seing A Trev madness is now available on better version 🙏🏻

[dapper torrent]

Been thinking of HoC to heretic honestly, every event seems to drop me tons of mage gear and little to no RS gear anyway but I just love RS

[gleaming flume]

Short term perspective : yes, keep bl2, add some for melee
Long term perspective : this is not healthy imho (both)

Would be fine imho if the system translate into something like :

• those melee/mage aoe are great for low/mid ang, and that's where some classes would shine
• semi aoe would shine on other classes on higher ang
  For now, as you can push those AOE on higher ang with AL rush on unschack, I don t see it as healthy.
  But for short-mid term perspective, yes, give AOE melee would be fun/fair 🙏🏻

Sorry for always being annoying (= to be me 😅) with long term things and system, it doesn't mean I don't understand RS concerns, those are absolutely fair 🙏🏻
Thanks for the talk

What about seing slice (as to me it really sounds like a RS like skill) able to instant cast twice : one as in front* attack, the other from behind, like the RS sneaking behind ? A quick "SWASH SWASH" animation on screen if it means something

[dapper torrent]

Sounds decent. I was already saying making slice always hit 2 targets would be an improvement over only a chance, but your version sounds a lot more fleshed out

[rancid sluice]

Please, call it Battle Pass. It is nothing less. As in other games where monetization is needed, either to continue operations or on investors demand.

I do not like it either. Somehow money must flow. Alternatives?

[gleaming flume]

It would be fun, imho, if you add :

• it hits twice no matter what
• it can be 1 or 2 target for each hit
• it has higher chance to hit 2 rather than 1

A doble slice : RS hit in front first and hit again sneaking from behind. May be linked to celestial passive ? Idk

It would look awesome as animation (two quick waves of big crit)

@eternal harbor ?

Does it makes some sense to you ?

[winged shard]

Doesn't mean it needed to be In form of aoe weapon, the class passives don't support conventional dps style

Requesting new aoe Melee weapon for rs makes more sense however

[dapper torrent]

I've seen some pretty gnarly 2hand Gursa's going full glass canon crit/collateral. It's not "the meta" but it's still a decent build that could benefit from an aoe 2hander

[winged shard]

It's not the meta because it is not comparable to other class (I'm talking for horde dungeon btw)

[dapper torrent]

Just like RS isn't comparable to other classes in horde dungeons?

[winged shard]

You know corvus recently got critical poise right?, that's huge boost for rs horde dungeons, adding elementless aoe weapon would make the class even stronger

[dapper torrent]

Yes I'm well aware and I've been abusing the hell out of it for endless. It still lacks the AOE capabilty that magic based classes have, again purely because of BL2

I was just refuting the point that Gilga couldn't benefit from a 2hand aoe weapon

[winged shard]

Gilga would surely benefitted but not much, dps would still very low compared to other classes

[dapper torrent]

I think there is a big problem in the orna community where a lot of people seem to think there's only 2 viable builds. Gursa does not have low dps. Is it as good as SS3? No, but it still clears a good chunk of content. We should be encouraging MORE build variety, not pigeonholing everyone into 2 builds.

[wooden nexus]

Arrowstorm 2?

[wooden nexus]

People push min max builds not fun builds that's the difference

[dapper torrent]

Yeah IK but there's the meta builds, viable builds, and not viable builds. People seem to forget the viable builds and assume that if it's not meta it's not viable

[wooden nexus]

I'd agree

Like I've recently started using magic chakram build for raiding

Because I got bored of qc Ultima and Ultima strikes in agony

[obsidian abyss]

I don't see corvus being as good as beoH/dAra in anguished dungeons, even with melee BL2 equivalent. For anguished BGs, RS corvus has too low turn 1 dmg and It takes too many turns to redline and db2 (even with mammoth, it is not consistent enough). Bad RNG on floor 1 = wipe.

For unthemed horde, it would probably be decent, but still - buffing phase takes longer than for other meta AOE builds, so it's less time efficient.

[dapper torrent]

RSC doesnt need to be a good anguish runner, it has it's place as top 2 endless and that's fine

[fleet sluice]

What about a 2 handed attack shield for gilga with it's own skill?

Ss4

[winged shard]

Agreed corvus turn 1 dmg is low yes but could be pumped via al & anguished gear, takes 1 extra turn buffing phase, playing rs is risky after all I'm not surprised people still choose beoh/deity

[obsidian abyss]

Yeah. That's why I think melee classes deserve better 2-h AoE weapon skills. It's not gonna make them the best at AoE grinding out of a sudden. Just reasonably viable

[royal robin]

For the purposes of making sure this thread is as easy to analyze later on for Wyrmhunt feedback - I may lightly ask that we don't turn it into a balance discussion thread please.

We'll be keeping these event threads going forward so we can easily parse event specific feedback

Cheers!

[dapper torrent]

Balance regarding AOE weapons is directly related to the event as the event introduces a new best in slot AOE weapon for the classes that were already overperforming from an AOE standpoint, while neglecting the classes that were underperforming

[gleaming flume]

Doble slice for RS + reducing extra turn from DoF/BoF + reduced m2 on bl2 =
Rs doble slice : strength : avidity benefit feels like a real bonus if you reduce DoF/BoF extra turn chance on horde + better viability of BoF build compared to others. Weakness : not always fully aoe
BL2 build on other classes : strength : always full AOE. Weakness : have to build a bit more mag + can't hope anymore for that much extra turn if DoF extra turn chance is tuned down on horde content (= you take more hits = you have to deal with more build "issues" than currently)

Those kind of things would be fair imho, and keep some difference between RS and Bl2 classes builds

[brave mist]

100% support this idea. Not ss4, but something like ground slam for some kind of non-crit AoE

Either that or just give yelmogus GS a relevant skill

Or, if we really want to keep the defend for 1 turn, make upward strike hit up to all targets like ravage

[glossy crow]

yes, but...

We can probably just say that the melee yel weapons are a bit of a letdown. Without comparing melee to mage, compare melee pre-event to melee post-event. How much changes for RS or gilga?

[strong agate]

Be cool if the element wasnt just physical. And was a dragon element like aglovale is arcane

But agree.

I think the tower event, economy, and boss drop rates are sweet!

10/10 event for me

[reef crystal]

Physical will always be a disappointment because it’ll always be compared to mage’s elementless. I agree the event would have been the perfect choice to add a dragon flavored variant

[wooden nexus]

I mean tbf you can't hit something with an item and it be element less because physical damage. Elementless is magic

I think to balance it tho elementless should have an immunity set of enemies

Like physical has immunes

[primal onyx]

Elementless also has innate stun chance, does phys have any innate proc?

[wooden nexus]

Pretty sure stun

I mean smack something with att button 100 times

[reef crystal]

Magic swords have existed for how many ages in media. Just look at D&D, magic weapons bypass resistances to typical melee damage types (slashing, bludgeoning etc). I don’t think melee classes should suffer for lore reasons, especially when there’s many ways to write around that

[wooden nexus]

It's a skill in the game magic sword and several other weapons and they deal physical damage as well afaik

[dapper torrent]

The weapons themselves are great, the thinblade is basically a ymir brilliant feathers on steroids. The letdown is the abilities. Also why should we not compare mage to melee when mage/hybrid can clear content 2-3x faster just by way of a single weapon ability? Either the weapon ability is too strong or melee should receive a similar ability to balance it out. The element is fine, a physical AOE would be worse than elementless sure, but at least let us hit 5 enemies instead of 1 with a chance of hitting 2. I'm not asking to be as good as or better than mage, I'm just asking not to be orders of magnitude worse.

[wanton silo]

But thiefs has avidity and gilga has collateral damage, and if i remember correctly, bl2 has super low penetration, so in high anguish levels it become partially useless

[dapper torrent]

"But thiefs have avidity" Ok, so we get a 30% chance (maximum) to act twice. This just means we have a 30% chance to have 2 CHANCES to hit twice. This still means that absolute best rng we hit 4 targets (almost never happens, but is nice when it does) or worst rng we still hit 1 target. Mage hits 5 targets every turn

Seriously, run some horde dungeons solo as a RS with slice and then run some as deity with BL2, the difference is staggeringly large

[queen tinsel]

I second this. There's already plenty of swords in the game that have magical abilities in whatever mythology they came from or were inspired from. Warriors have mana as well. I dont think it's too hard to believe that a giant sword crafted from the remains of the strongest dragon we've ever seen (a dragon TITAN) wouldn't have some magical stuff going on with it. It's a video game anyway, we should be having fun with the gear we have available to us.

[hidden mulch]

we're playing a game where a black cat led by a guy dressed like a candy corn can cast a nuke powerful enough to oneshot the literal world ender (jorm) so I don't think realism is really a key factor here

same game where you take 0 damage from ultima (the most powerful spell canonically?) and bleed to death on the same turn

I think making a greatsword hit multiple enemies is not that egregious

[dapper torrent]

I literally hit people with a bow lol

Horizontal Slash 3 with Celestial Greatbow, like what

[glossy crow]

why should we not compare mage to melee
because it's hard to make the true comparison accounting for defenses, different event content, anguish, gradations of gearing
because a lot of players aren't flexible in their class choice and will play their class regardless of what other classes can accomplish
because ultimately it's distracting from getting changes made to the gear, as seen in the ~hundred posts above

I'd recommend https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1388102487210459146 for class v. class comparisons, and focus in this thread on just making sure that (for a given class) that the event gear is worth farming for and that the event difficulty is right.

[dapper torrent]

If they changed the skills to Slice 2 for the thinblade, which is just slice that always hits 2 targets, and Cleave 2 for the greatblade which again would just be cleave that always hits 2 targets, because upward strike is just bad no matter how you look at it, it would make them great chase weapons. As it stands now they're decent base weapons that are being let down by their abilities and hitting 2 targets instead of 1+ chance would be a massive improvement to the melee AOE problem in and of itself without taking away from the power of BL2.

I also like Knight's suggestion of a Dragon element version of Envy for the event weapons, but fear that may be asking for too much.

[brave mist]

It feels wrong that, for a pure warrior (gilga and gherc), agathodaemon hammer feels stronger than the end boss' weapon for warriors

[jovial yew]

Especially when yel is like a super titan lol

And ymir is just a regular boss

[eternal harbor]

Let's be clear about two things lol:

• The Agathodaemon hammer is better, it's not good
• Ymir is like the highest HP non-Titan boss in the game. It was a big deal in it's day

There's a strong argument that the hammer is the worst item Ymir can drop 😆

I'm not refuting that the warrior weapon could use an improvement (I've even brought it up in the ORN chat, so hopefully something happens 🤞 )

I just wanted to mention that

[jovial yew]

I could argue that is now ymir beithir staff, max dmg I can get beithir to do fully buffed with T.Buffs and perma, was 40k, pretty sure every other item in it's list can out perform that

[brave mist]

Yes, agatho hammer is not good. Its just one of the top weapons a pure warrior can kind of reliably get in terms of a native (?) pseudo-aoe skill. Ybf is so much better its hard to even see both of them as the same category of items (weapon)

[dapper torrent]

It has niche uses, the extra ward damage from the hammer when paired with RS extra ward damage and Assassin extra ward damage and defense debuffs goes pretty hard

[eternal harbor]

RIP Beithir Heretic Blood Pact 2023-2023

[brave mist]

Does dorado have bonus dmg to ward?

[eternal harbor]

No

[dapper torrent]

No base RS

[brave mist]

Ohh

[eternal harbor]

The hammer can't be equipped by base RS

[brave mist]

Base rs cant use agatho hammer i think

[jovial yew]

Think people still use beithir for duo bloodpacting? Maybe I'm wrong though, regardless the summon hits less than some T7 summons in our arsenal, also as a solo bloodpact, no one in a million years is touching that staff 🥀

[dapper torrent]

Maybe I did use it on dorado then, I've definitely used it before

[jovial yew]

Just needs a slight tweak

[brave mist]

Also yel GS boosts frenzy, which lasts for 5 turns and burns tons of ward, but has a 2 turn skill

[dapper torrent]

Oh nvm I'm stupid, just checked my gear and I was mixing it up with Finesse's shotel which also does damage to ward

[brave mist]

His thinblade has bonus to full aoe but it comes with slice

Yel's melees are a bit weird

[dapper torrent]

Makes me wonder how hard a Gursa Assassin with the hammer could go though

[manic solstice]

I feel like the abilities on the melee weapons weren't fully thought out and were just slapped on with whatever the corresponding armor sets had

[ocean wadi]

Thankyou all for your consideration on the weapon offhand abilities for this event!! I had recently made alts for all the classes and gotten them to T10. And with the newish 2 handed abilities, it was bugging me how slow the new Gilga was compared to all the other classes. So I was VERY upset when I saw how cool the new event weapons were for everyone except for Gilga. Even summoners got a fun farming weapon!

[manic solstice]

I feel like Yelbeghen's weapons should be just below celestial weapons in terms of power before anguish boosting considering how much effort is needed to be put in for a chance at something

[static raven]

Duo bloodpacting is awfull idea. The issue was that you cant use other players summons for bloodpacting anymore.

[vocal crater]

That is not correct. You can only increase pact effectiveness for your own summons, but otherwise duo bloodpacting still works fine.

[static raven]

And bloodpacting is not worth to run if you cant use pact boosters.

[vocal crater]

You think so?

[static raven]

I do.

There are much better dmg sources than bloodpact 3 on duo strat.

[vocal crater]

Possible. Which one? 😄

I like duo raiding and I like to test such strategies

[static raven]

Basicly any.

Bloodpact without pact% requires awfull als. Full magic ups and beo hydrus basicly

[vocal crater]

I have currently 36 ALs and it takes around 4 turns to reach the damage cap. I really don't know which other duo strategy could be better 🤷

[static raven]

My eos hits harder than this on duo

[vocal crater]

I played duo towerfall pre-nerf and switched to BP after the nerf. Or is Eos for some reason better than Prometheus for duo towerfall? 🤔

[static raven]

I have the summons for protection for both players

(We do anguish raids)

[vocal crater]

OK, but in terms of damage it is probably towerfall plus gorynych?

[static raven]

Or vritra, zaltys, lindworm ?

[vocal crater]

Yeah, so 1 for weakness, 1 for towerfall

[static raven]

My buddy usually does use lindy so

[vocal crater]

But anyway, great that duo raiding is still possible with different builds. That is the part I always liked most about the game.

[static raven]

If you enjoy it its fine but not very effective later imo.

[vocal crater]

We are currently ang11 for raids. Maybe later it will become worse, but until now it's works fine. But then I keep the duo towerfall with Eos in mind 😉

[static raven]

Scary moment

[worthy stag]

How do you deal so much damage yourself as BeoA ?
ALs aren't that high and the buffs are great but usually M1 is the problem, Swansong doesn't have a great M1... I'm really surprised

[gleaming flume]

M1 doesn't seem much of an issue on ang2.0 tbh. Endless results with ang on, dmg from low pen skills, bug ? Who knows !

Half of the messages on our discord today is about key issues.
And seing more people on other places going for alt is just 🙄

[brave mist]

As a sidenote i really like this event's loop. Its harder and towers feel refreshing 🙌

[haughty falcon]

The log adds up the total amount done to the group. He's not actually doing 350k in one hit

[static raven]

With full buffs i deal 190-200+k dmg per mob

[static prairie]

So I'm 22 Yelb kills in. One single 2H staff at famed, a few random pieces of lego armor, no ornates. Statistically I'm probably well within the norms with these results, but this feels pretty bad given the time taken for each instance of challenging him.

I'm going to keep grinding it because I'm an idiot, but I can see myself getting burnt out on this event.

[queen tinsel]

22 yelb kills, but each kill drops 2, so 44. Thats a lot of chances for something good. Imo bad rng

[haughty falcon]

Pretty average rng imo, you could easily go 44 kills with nothing good. Nothing good meaning no staff for a lot of people myself included. And considering how much effort they are to farm that's a recipe for burnout

[static prairie]

I'm hesitant to say "give yelb better rates or more drops" because it's not like his gear should just be given out... but I also do not want to burn out on a game I enjoy.

Comparing it against raids, you can generally spam normal event raids or build up a lot of scrolls to summon event super raids and spam those... but this is a forced tower climb per attempt.

[glossy crow]

Yeah it's a big lift for sure. We're 1/5th of the way through the month/through the event. I'm getting a few ornates trickling in (25 codex kills for me so far) and it's going to be hard to keep up the pace but I think it's doable to end up with a set of ornates by the end.

Certainly glad Yel drops 2x drops 😅 I leave it to NF to see if they're getting enough engagement or if they need to increase drops in some way.

[fiery pier]

Add an adornment for those of us who got spooned 🙂

[worthy stag]

But HOW ?!

[static prairie]

He's using a normal AoE setup, just as BeoA. It's literally the same thing a Beo/BeoH would run, just no hybrid monster passive.

Oh, and he's also running a great mediation follower and aaru robe. Kind of required to get those numbers.

[worthy stag]

I literally did that to try, but I barely go higher than 20-30k

okay forgot 2x Trev charm

stoopid I am

but you have to sacrifice 1-2 turns to have enough damage to deal, one more if you face Bashe/Ymir hordes to set the Ward

I will try BeoO, it have Hybrid Monster and Dragon immunity, should be better even if you don't have 30% double pet cast

[static prairie]

Jump over to the ultimate beo guide thread, I'll show you what I can pull together for this as well. It's just a tad off topic here.

[worthy stag]

yup, mb I was just too surprised to see high numbers from the BeoA itself 😂

[sand kettle]

I know it's been brought up before but any chance we can get a beithir summon rework or retool during this event or will that come another time.

[reef crystal]

11/10 patch notes

[gleaming flume]

Alright, let's take a small break and see you on "nerf RS" thread in about 15 minutes

Jk, enjoy

[static prairie]

I'm so ready for everyone to be mad that it's better on BeoH.

[eternal harbor]

If there's ever a serious "Nerf-RS" thread that isn't about PvP then that'll be a world first

[hidden mulch]

dw abyss will hoc into rs in 100 years and then everyone's gonna jump on him

[eternal harbor]

Yeah if Abyss HoCs RS then Odie probably screwed something up

[toxic galleon]

yeah he only plays meta classes lol

[strong agate]

Thank you Odie ❤️

[hidden mulch]

out of sheer boredom maybe

[patent notch]

I am ..... without a doupt happy about having a second dual element weapons

just need to start doing towers and get a good one

[hidden mulch]

but event is still a bit fucked
if you grind 200 yels and you want a thinblade
assume 2 thinblades drop every yel (impossible)
you still have a 13.5% chance to not get a single ornate thinblade (thinlbade is used here as an example, applies to every other item)

i think those levels of grind should give you a near statistical certainty of getting at least one ornate of every kind, and getting your entire progression shafted because you were unlucky just sucks ass

i can't name another event where you're basically forced to gamble for bis, even with inhuman amounts of grinding (mostly applicable to hoa, but orna too if you don't aggro towers outside of vision range + if you don't move around)

[patent notch]

I was expecting some kind of new celestial event weapon that you farm to craft a garantied result

[static prairie]

Agreed on your sentiment about the stats. Goes hand in hand with my earlier complaining about the time input per attempt too because you would 100% crash out of this game if you put in that time and got no usable item out of it.

[hidden mulch]

it's crazy honestly, as a newer player (hoa) i've been able to brute force bis every event so far (and thankfully i did, one event i didn't brute force, finesse i got fully shafted on katana/gs)

and i don't know why wyrmhunt of all events got more content (probably because older players already had 100000 ornate jocs? i assume that was the intent)

but the implementation is lacking

now im juggling
ymir massacre
progressing normally
towers
everything else

[static prairie]

Thankfully finesse gear is on fool as well, but yeah I understand that comparison. Still lacking a second ornate epee.

[hidden mulch]

oh boy i also have a problem with fool + scruggs lol

once a year for basically every desirable item (fool) + presents (basically mandatory for archalch)

[eternal harbor]

The Fool doesn't have any unique drops aside from Vulcan items iirc

It's just a single pinata boss of good loot from the rest of the year

[glossy crow]

I don't think the "ornate or bust" event fomo is particularly worse this time around than previous times with FSC, pumpkin legs, finesse weapons, etc.

It takes more time per attempt but not fundamentally different.

[hidden mulch]

which hyper accels your prog

• summoning scrolls which is crazy to think

[eternal harbor]

Early on, yeah. I guess it depends if you view Orna as a long term game or not

Every event repeats, most twice or more

[hidden mulch]

fool is only 3 days in april no?

and winter whatever is december only

[eternal harbor]

Yes, but like I just said The Fool only drops other events' items

[hidden mulch]

i've come to terms with pumpkinless at this rate, completely forgot that was an item

[hidden mulch]

but at such an efficient rate

scrolls, finesse, whatever else

no point in summoning in avalon if you already have fool

[eternal harbor]

The point of summoning Avalon stuff is if The Fool didn't give you good Avalon stuff

[hidden mulch]

(unless arisen ava gear, which is eclipsed by pumpkinless in all slots except for head

[eternal harbor]

And then if you still don't get good avalon stuff, the event will be back

[hidden mulch]

so waiting a year

[eternal harbor]

For Avalon it's twice a year + The Fool but yeah

That's how Orna has always worked

It took me three years to get an Ornate Arisen Hel's Garb 😆

[hidden mulch]

idk maybe it was just ignorance when i played 4+ years ago

but i don't remember event locking being this bad

whatever, can't change much now lol

[eternal harbor]

4+ years ago events were only once per year, never twice

[hidden mulch]

same with als and whatnot (flashback jeffles

[eternal harbor]

If you missed Surtr in July you'd be waiting until next July

[hidden mulch]

oh ok that's wholesome

same with sisters?

[eternal harbor]

Well, Arisen Morrigan was given a 1% chance to spawn from scrolls shortly after her first run

But for showing up in kingdoms yeah. One year between showings

[static prairie]

In terms of pure odds agreed, I'm just stuck on the much higher input per attempt with heads > tower run > boss being so much slower and time consuming.

[glossy crow]

Trying to estimate how much slower.

Per Yel, it's like 15-20(?) minutes of horde boss dungeons followed by a 5-10(?) minute yel tower.
Then since he's double drop the input time is halved; equivalent to something like 10 minutes per chance of raid items.

Comparing to hallowed (killing select world mobs + craft scroll, pretty quick), fey jorm (some number of kraids + wrbs + scroll farm time), finesse (just scroll farm time), hippo (killing select world mobs + craft scroll). Just focusing on Finesse, it's like 5? scrolls per finesse, which is to say like ~2 UwUs per finesse, so like 5 minutes per chance of raid items or so.

I think it's definitely slower but not like an order of magnitude slower. 🤷‍♂️

Hence me saying that if NF needs to make it more rewarding, that "2x" raid drop rate could be raised to 3x or 4x or something to reduce the amount of time that players need to spend per chance of raid drops. Or it's just not a problem as-is.

[static prairie]

All I know is that if I gather up more than 10 dungeons with a way vessel, my old phone goes from full to 30% battery

[hidden mulch]

idk im playing basically the same during wyrm and jorm events

i have 1500 fjorm scrolls

go figure

hippo, i played even less with garbage gear, 380 scrolls

[gleaming flume]

It's maybe because players are used to easy way to farm some events. This one is not hard imho, it just doesn't allow same madness as in some particular events. Not sure the fomo is worst here, I tend to think it's the opposite, when you compare to spaming thousands raids in a few days

[fiery pier]

I think this event has a good rate for a late game event, reminds me of the old days of needing a few rounds to get the best possible loot. I'd prefer if more events had this cadence for the 'late-game' portion of them

[static prairie]

I will change my opinion to this if I get a good weapon 🙃

[gleaming flume]

And some of those events appearing again more often for some quick events surprises 🙏🏻🤞🏻

[severe spruce]

With the change of regular horde dungeons from 3 keys to 2 keys are boss hordes also cheaper?

Not sure if it’s a multiplier situation or a set price thing with multiple modifiers

[glossy crow]

I believe so. Would be 15->10 key cost.

[severe spruce]

Ah, multiplier then by the sounds of it. Bless. It’s such a breath of fresh air for devs to be so responsive to players

[astral flax]

Also, the event mobs are still diluted because of Sumner event. Once it's only dragons in regular dungeons, a key should be easier to farm.

[static prairie]

That is true, though I've kind of found some fun in getting mass aspects.

[astral flax]

There's a great deal of pleasure knowing I'll never need fleshy or great aspects again

[severe spruce]

I had thought the same thing, but as it turns out walking 20k steps a day goes through them like nothing lol

[astral flax]

The bug is fixed! Yel gear is dropping anguished

[meager dew]

I wish I had seen this 30 seconds before I tagged 2 more at Torment 4

[astral flax]

Sadly it wasn't retroactive.

[hidden mulch]

and in 15 minutes you'll be glad that you did go torment 4 because we all know ornates are a myth

[dapper torrent]

Awesome change to the weapons 👍 Now I just hope I can get one, 40 kills and all I've got is a XP tome

[jovial yew]

Someone in HOA has like only ornate tomes lmao, like 60 yel kills in, I felt bad for them ( I've killed yel 8 times no ornates )

[meager dew]

Naw that extra +0.03 ornate chance I get is gonna be the difference just watch

[dapper torrent]

I've been running karmic ornate the whole time just in case, even though I assume it works like sphinx tails and doesn't work on raids

[meager dew]

Yel (and all tower titans) are considered bosses so things like karmic ornate and sphinx tails do actually work on them

[dapper torrent]

Wow so I'm just super unlucky then 😢 Well I got 3 ornate JOC so far at least, consolation prize

[hidden mulch]

and nary a word was uttered

[patent notch]

Question

do I need to max my luck for that tower dragon boss or his 2x drops are garantied?

i got 3 queued up and I am trying to figure my loadout for him

[eternal harbor]

His drops are not guaranteed but as far as we know luck won't help since he's a titan

[dapper torrent]

I'm pretty sure I've been receiving 2x of each piece every run, however the heads seem to vary from 1-2

But to be fair I'm running them with dowsing rod, great dowsing rod and vulcans brew up so if luck does affect it that could play a role

[eternal harbor]

It may just be dragon heads that aren't guaranteed, auto-dismantle makes counting a pain

If luck did influence drops though, iirc you'd get 2 of each dragon head always with max luck, and we know that's not the case

[dapper torrent]

It'll be another few hours for my towers to come of cooldown to check maybe someone else can confirm

[patent notch]

did not know titans were not affected by luck

titan catboi tail works for ornate chances?

[eternal harbor]

Yes, as much as it works on anything else (not much)

[static prairie]

How dare you slander the tails... I might get an extra third of an ornate jewel of creation because of them.

[eternal harbor]

If you kill 10,000 Ymir with two tails, that is roughly accurate

[static prairie]

I regret not noting what my kill count was at the start of the event.

[eternal harbor]

10,000 Ymir with max luck is an 85% drop rate for JoCs, so 8,500 JoCs

Without two tails that'll average 42.5 Ornates (1/200 chance)
With two tails that'll average 42.9 Ornates (1/198 chance)

[patent notch]

oh lol so the anguish guild 1% bonus is useless?

[hidden mulch]

and with presents you get enough from archalch to get 1 al which saves you from death in a few runs making the total ornate rate higher

[eternal harbor]

No, no. It'd make it a 1/197 chance

(yes)

[static prairie]

Hey, that bonus is great once you get 10+ of them.

[eternal harbor]

Sphinx tails in every slot

[patent notch]

i don't understand why it would be 1/200 instead 1/100 since % are PER CENT not, PER TWO CENT

[hidden mulch]

because fuck you specifically

[eternal harbor]

In Orna sometiimes the "%" symbol is just decoration

[patent notch]

yeah

[eternal harbor]

Similar to pet act

[patent notch]

got to love magic numbers

[dapper torrent]

Not useless, a .01% chance is still a .01% chance

[eternal harbor]

Fun fact: The 0.01% chance seen in Anguish is actually the same 1% chance seen on the Sphinx tail

Just with added zeros in front of it

The zeroes don't mean anything though

Like the % sign

[hidden mulch]

consistency what's that

[abstract ravine]

it comes down to math, for example if you get +1% drop rate buff
and that item default drop rate 0.5%
that +1% buff will make that item drop rate to be 0.5% + 1%(current drop rate) = 0.505%

unless that 1% is whole number but i dont think so

[eternal harbor]

No, directly from Odie, a "1%" buff literally makes the 1/200 ornate chance into 1/199. And two of them make it 1/198

[hidden mulch]

and one day it'll be 1/1

but until that day

[hidden mulch]

6 crying souls of the damned

[eternal harbor]

I think that's an appropriate reaction to learning how it works

[hidden mulch]

Yeah lmao

Initially I thought it was +1 to numerator

[abstract ravine]

so 1% increase = about 0.5% drop rate increate then

[eternal harbor]

Yes

[abstract ravine]

it all come down from default drop rate value + 1%
odie just show a simple answer 1/200 > 1/199

but who care, it quite a small number

[ocean wadi]

Now, we just need luck added to the new weapons. 😄

[dapper torrent]

I think the new weapons are pretty powerful already now lmao

[dapper torrent]

God damn why are the heads forfeitable, just wasted 11 agathodaemon heads. At least it's not many but still frustrating

[storm abyss]

had same issue

[jovial yew]

Lol I've seen someone throw away over 100 heads quite unfortunate-

I usually don't forfeit till the event is over

[dapper torrent]

My inventory was full was trying to clear up space to reduce lag

Must have overlooked them while clicking on LITERALLY thousands of items, because nothing stacks

I don't think key items should be forfeitable, but maybe that's just me

[winged shard]

This was me during the first day 🤣, 40 heads gone

[strong agate]

I think that is and has been the beauty of the gear chase in orna. It isnt a guarantee. Took me 600 Hyperions to get the ornate gear I wanted, and if you do the math on the star and moon drops that is a lot more intensive then this event

Lol sorry to bring this back up. I thought it was today

Carry on

[hidden mulch]

it's a pretty important topic

[hidden mulch]

it isn't a guarantee, but i don't think the rates should be that trash

say for hyperions, at least you can trade with other players/grind a shit ton

[eternal harbor]

It's 100 Yelbeghen to hit drop rate for any single ornate

(if he drops two items every time, which I've been told he does)

[hidden mulch]

yel you're basically capped

[hidden mulch]

he doesn't always drop 2 every kill

my suspicion is that he rolls like the raid famed table (90%)

[eternal harbor]

It's possible. We never figured out titan drop mechanics and Odie did just throw a wrench into them with the two drops

[hidden mulch]

i've been killing with 400% luck and not every kill gives 2 drops per item

[eternal harbor]

Luck doesn't influence titans (normally)

[hidden mulch]

it does pretty sure

or it might have been floors?

[eternal harbor]

Per Odie, it's just floors

[hidden mulch]

but yeah, yel is definitely affected by luck?

i didn't take any ss before i equipped 2 concords, but this is another player

[eternal harbor]

That's why I've always been saying Titans aren't normally affected by luck but Yel could be different. 😅

[hidden mulch]

illiteracy runs in my blood

[eternal harbor]

But he probably didn't need luck

[hidden mulch]

best to just in case

[eternal harbor]

One screenshot doesn't really prove anything but I don't know if anyone has been tracking any serious data

[hidden mulch]

i don't think anyone is willing to sac their drops lol

[eternal harbor]

Has anyone here been running Yelbeghen with autodismantle off and still hasn't dismantled anything?

[hidden mulch]

pretty sure everyone has dismantle exotics off esp for yel

oh ok yeah

i can provide a few ss

[eternal harbor]

Screw that I've been autodismantling every non-legendary

[hidden mulch]

1.5k ymir kc

i refuse to dismantle anything

[eternal harbor]

I'm on Samson's good side

[hidden mulch]

samson will suffer from my hand

[eternal harbor]

This event solves all possible Pure Draconite ascension blocks for the next 6-12 months

[hidden mulch]

yeah that's for after the event

[eternal harbor]

KC?

[hidden mulch]

one ornate greatstaff

60

hoa unfortunately

[eternal harbor]

Same drop mechanics

[hidden mulch]

yeah im aware

i just have keys sitting around unable to be used

[eternal harbor]

Some of the ORN has been petitioning Odie to let keys be used after the event

HoA really needs it

[hidden mulch]

that'll cause hella burnout from grinding

[eternal harbor]

I need to go out and pick up some towers, but I'll add up your drops when I get back unless someone else would like to do it first

Just need a count of each item to get drop chances

60 should be enough for an estimate given the amount of drops

[hidden mulch]

note that a few kills were done luckless

so idk if that'll skew anything

[eternal harbor]

Might, might not. Still no guarantee luck works ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hidden mulch]

because 73 greatstaves, 60 kc??

ofc there's ones with different quals, but that is nowhere near 2x per kill

[hidden mulch]

maybe im not the best candidate then

my suggestion previously to my hoa kd (might be too strong, just theorycrafting):
make a yel summon that's literally the same thing, solo only

at end of event, all unused keys become the summon

after climbing a tower and killing yel, you get the drops as normal + a 50% chance at the yel summon

so it incentivizes players to continue grinding towers during the event

and allows for more grindy players to not just lose it all for no reason

[glossy crow]

make a yel summon
‼️

[hidden mulch]

oh fuck

[eternal harbor]

I think he means raid-like version

[hidden mulch]

yeah, that

but solo only so people can't just stack it

• death = lose

essentially the goal is to provide an incentive to climb towers during the event

but not make all the hard work players put into the event completely obsolete

[eternal harbor]

@hidden mulch what class were these Yels killed with?

[hidden mulch]

dara

[eternal harbor]

Oh, interesting, I was going to guess GS

[hidden mulch]

lmao no

who tf plays gs

[eternal harbor]

The drop quantities look like GS but it was just the way the drops rolled I guess

Since you see more items that you can equip, but Deity sees equal of everything so it doesn't matter

Or maybe Aethric drops always favor GS since it's what most people play

[jovial yew]

As a GS main, I'd like to say 90% of endgame players refuse to touch the class in HOA lmao

And killing 60 yel by this time not as a 250 with AL, is painfully slow

I got about 20 under my belt now have yet to see ornate 🥀

It's okay though I can settle for famed 🥀😪

[eternal harbor]

That was just a joke, the main point seems to be that Yel averages around 1.3-1.4 drops per kill

[jovial yew]

I've seen an unlucky fella about 90 yel kills and STILL only ornate tomes, they are max level 🤣💀 so the tomes don't do anything for him, I'm thinking maybe the yel tomes should give stats/other things as well

Would've been cool to see an actual good accessory from yel that can be used in builds too

Like immunity to drakeblights, or the ability to apply elemental blights, or even like avidity% with some stats

[reef crystal]

Arisen Ymir vritra charm

[ocean wadi]

Have it increase apex fill rate, mana flask fill rate, collateral chance/damage, avidity, summon and follower power! Just like Yel is a combination of all the dragons, the tome contains inspiring stories of heroes of all the classes!

[sharp parrot]

Could we please get a head exchange in the monumental guild?

Eg.

Exchange any 3 heads for 1 trophy.
Exchange a trophy for 1 head of your choice?

[winged shard]

Can we do something for drake's blood as well?, thousands in my inventory 🤣

[eternal harbor]

You can use it to remove drakeblight

[dapper torrent]

There's no point removing drakeblight when they apply it every turn. You either live with it or run ymir charm lol

[winged shard]

I mean.... Yeah even then there's still a ton left and now vritra charm gives you immunity to drakeblight too

Maybe add it to some potions recipe or crafting 👀

[eternal harbor]

It's been really helpful in the Yelbeghen fight to remove the drakeblight from chests lol

First time I've used it in years I think

[hidden mulch]

gambling is good

screw removing blights when you can play steadfast simulator

[eternal harbor]

I play Realmshifter I don't know what that means

I'm wearing two immunity accessory and an immunity offland lol

[hidden mulch]

fancy way of saying dursa

but with less stats

[hidden mulch]

do you not go luck

or is it like mmh/stockings

[eternal harbor]

We've been over this, earlier today in fact

No I don't go luck lol

[hidden mulch]

I mean we're uncertain

can I see your droprates

vs mine

[eternal harbor]

No because I also utilize autodismantle

[hidden mulch]

also?

Samson will suffer by my hand