#DM, agony.... RIP balance ⚰️

227 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

limber plover
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In case there are still some people interested in keeping some sense in farming balance, feel free to share some datas and so on.
Mainly hoping - as usual - to keep some sense in farming abilities / contents.

cloud girder
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I'll share my data so far, little over 48 hours between the screenshots, Elysian Coin activated at the start, with a Proof of Undying Allegiance active for the later half of the 24 hours (and still 24 more to go)

So far: (I wanna say at least 200+ DMs)
~1.3bil Orn's
~128bil Exp
~30k guild XP / 15 levels
990 Proofs of Remembrance

Screenshot_20250710-190642.png Screenshot_20250710-190621.png Screenshot_20250710-190724.png Screenshot_20250710-190709.png
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(and tons of mats that I wish I kept track of)

gleaming cosmos
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I think its okay that coin and allegiance are really good buffs because of how limited they are, but base memory were probably already a bit too good and made better by great Oracle. Do the buffs buff guild exp? It seemed like it to me.

limber plover
cloud girder
zealous finch
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I get 14 exp with elysian coin, great oracle and event - no beaver buff, no undying allegiance.

So yeah, it checks out

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500 cort is juicy though

gleaming cosmos
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But honestly wouldn't be a problem if they weren't buyable from towering guild I think. Making dm 200 in Anguish was a good change

limber plover
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With 400 average duable, we're talking about - if 50 DM/hour - 400x4x50 = 80k = average 1333 each mat/hour
10 hour = 800k = 13330 each mat
100 hour = 8 millions = 133330 each mat
Gg, you're now AL 170+ (mainly that "low" because you have some mats more asked than others)
Yes, there are - just like other stuff - other factor to take into account, first = DM farming. With tower/monuments and so on, DM farm is more than fine.
It was already unbalanced before, the current buff just increased a lot the issue.

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Just in case, feel free to take a look at seer guild LB, opening #2 profile is better than words to point there's something (issue is not that player, it's the game allowing those things to happen IMHO)

gleaming cosmos
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#6 is legit

limber plover
gleaming cosmos
limber plover
fluid steppe
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I'm not sure what the answer is without impacting the community aspect of amity hunting. What is in it for those contributing if mat income is impacted? I'd be much more reticent in the effort it takes to organize and contribute, considering I had very good legendaries quite a while ago. I suppose it would depend how hard it was hit.
Orn income could definitely be tuned down, and exp income needs turned down imo. Contributes to tier acceleration and not being prepared for difficulty walls ||similar to summoner||

fossil ruin
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Making Elysian coin and proof of allegiance not stack would be a good first step imo. They’re very limited buffs, and they should produce good results, but being able to use them together leads to very productive bursts of farming

fossil ruin
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Tbf, this has a ton of prerequisites before it can be achieved:

  • assuming you’re running 10h a day non stop, you’re only getting 20h out of your Elysian coins and proofs of allegiance, meaning you need 5 of those to get to 100h.
  • you need to farm seers guild enough to get you 5 Elysian coins (level 75)
  • you need to farm 5 guilds to the max to get 5 proofs of undying allegiance
  • you need a memory event overlapping with a tower boosting shrine for at least 10 days
  • you need to farm a bit over 3300 DMs (the amount needed to run 5000 hunts after recollection is considered).
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All in all you’d only be able to do that only once per account (because of proofs of allegiance) and it would require a massive amount of setup. Elysian and allegiance stacking is probably still too big of a buff, but overall the situation isn’t as egregious when we take all of this into consideration

zealous finch
limber plover
zealous finch
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Divide by 4, actually - doing 100 hours of that requires all elysian coins and most proofs of undying allegiance

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once that burst is over, you're getting no more boosts

limber plover
limber plover
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🤣

gleaming cosmos
limber plover
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Oh I saw. Brillant

gleaming cosmos
limber plover
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A few days just doing what was discussed here or on other places long ago when the first multi appeared. Feels like they added some more 😅

gleaming cosmos
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A few extra

limber plover
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Fair

gleaming cosmos
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Some emergent gameplay as well

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Can go into detail if you're interested, but have to wait 46 hours for my buffs to run out

limber plover
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🤣

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I love it

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Glhf

gleaming cosmos
covert raven
# fossil ruin Tbf, this has a ton of prerequisites before it can be achieved: - assuming you’r...

Hence none of this should be nerf.

The process to get there is tedious and grindy.

I grind 60-100 DM everyday depends on without towers.
I hate grinding 50 floors tower.

Every Monday I scout for amity and redo it if there's nothing interesting a few days later.

I uses coin+astral tree+ event buff + shrine buff.

I only use Poua after the weekly event due to lag.

And poua doesn't even give much to me because I don't really grind that much in an hour due to low end phone.

The one that gave me the most resources and mats is actually my weekly scouting with astral+coin+event buff + shrine this month.

hushed bronze
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I'm with goudine on this one, dms have gotten completely out of hand. It's refineries all over again except even worse. The best solution is to nuke the mat rewards but make it far easier to obtain good amitys. We need to have some control over the bonuses, not just the maluses.

Deal with this now, don't wait 4+ years like we did with refineries

fossil ruin
# covert raven Hence none of this should be nerf. The process to get there is tedious and gri...

You’re responding to a comment that was made when PoUAs and Elysian coins were extremely limited. That’s no longer the case, so accessibility to this has gotten much better

I still argue that the nerf should come via PoUA availability and not to mats given by DM. If we remove mat gains from DMs, players that haven’t used PoUAs yet won’t be able to catch up to the ones that have. If we instead go back to have a fixed limited amount of PoUAs per account, everyone will be able to catch up eventually and no one can run away with disproportionate gains

gleaming cosmos
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Will just tag onto the above comment and mention we probably shoudlnt get this many memory boosters available at one time again. And also the increase to mats to coincide with the decreased steps should probably be reverted.

limber plover
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Or boost refineries

hushed bronze
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I really want to see dms nerfed to the point where they are never the most efficient method for ascension. I hate that an activity that is arguably not even actual gameplay is so much more efficient than any other method. You're not getting to use the power and gear you've spent years grinding out, it's just children's puzzles over and over and over and over. The one time I did it was probably the most mind numbingly boring thing I've ever done. Scouting for a good Amity is fun (when you actually find the right seed) grinding these things for mats is the complete opposite

gleaming cosmos
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IMO something like

DM << Anguish/Towers << super boosted DMs is okay from a reward perspective in a world where super boosters were more limited.

Agree on fun factor though, DMs arent that engaging beyond mastering the animal cancel. But I still think its an appropriate reward for completing a whole guild at pre-May2026 rates. But if guild capstone rewards were just heres 10 AL worth of mats I would really have no qualms about it.

hushed bronze
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That's pretty easy to say when you already have a bunch of poua stocked up

gleaming cosmos
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It would be a worse ladder pull than to nerf DMs so that no one could catch me.

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But I've spent all mine so far

fossil ruin
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Especially if you keep the ones that got released for events but make them one-time only, and stop releasing them for new events. That way everyone will have access to the exact same amount of PoUAs for any account ever

covert raven
# fossil ruin You’re responding to a comment that was made when PoUAs and Elysian coins were e...

The process to get POUA is still extremely limited.
To most casual players, it's either you get the coin or you get POUA.
And to get POUA, u need to grind full-time.
Ornaversary puoa needed you to spend at least half of the period to get it.

And no, the comments wasn't made towards when it is limited. I only play memory content a lot when Odie had the new system up.

When it was up, Odie was still concern whether the mat gains is enough to compensate the reduce step. And ppl was complaining is lesser.

The whole issue of disproportional gain came when the weekly boost and event boost was at the same time.

So it makes ppl who are not prepared/minmax for it not happy. For casual players like us, who don't really use POUA, it didn't make much difference.
I didn't even spend much DM when I pop my PUOA after the lag.

Again, the issue is when the buff stacks and ppl are not prepared for it.

Not the mat which have been the same for the longest time. Or the POUA that you only get once a month or lesser.

covert raven
fossil ruin
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That means everyone gets one PoUA from ragnarok, balor invades, etc, regardless if it takes you one run or three runs of the event to unlock it

covert raven
fossil ruin
covert raven
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So if I miss the event, it's not gonna repeat, I won't get it at all?

fossil ruin
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Every event has repeated in Orna’s history. You’d be able to get it when it comes back

covert raven
fossil ruin
# covert raven So I have to wait for a year to get an extra POUA?

Or you grind it when the event comes back?
Like, I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Right now, you can grind one when the event comes for the first time and another when it comes for the second time. This generates FOMO and means hardcore players can accumulate more PoUAs than casual players. With the change I propose, you can only grind it once per account, regardless of if it takes you one run of the event or three.

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Ideally, new events wouldn’t even have PoUAs, because even one per event is way too many PoUAs to hand out

covert raven
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So I just miss ornaversary poua. To get that extra one more, I need to wait next year?

fossil ruin
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You’d be able to get a PoUA at next ornaversary, but only one ornaversary PoUA ever. That means whoever got it this year won’t be able to get it next year

covert raven
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So I need to wait another year?

fossil ruin
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Don’t you already need to? I don’t get how my proposal makes that different

covert raven
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Tbh I don't think I will play for that long.

fossil ruin
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Only difference is whoever got it this time around won’t also be able to get it next time, so you’ll be able to catch up

covert raven
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Nah. I think I probably quit the game before the next one came.
Why would I wait for a year?

fossil ruin
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We’re clearly not speaking the same language 🤷‍♂️

hushed bronze
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There are other events that have them you can work on while you wait. Orna is not a get everything in a month kind of game

covert raven
hushed bronze
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🐴 🌊🤷‍♂️

hidden iron
covert raven
hidden iron
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ah

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well, the way I see it, balance wise the ship has kinda sailed already, minmaxers already know to use limited resources like that in peak moments (event stacking etc) so before those went into AP shops the AL explosion was not that obvious
having used POUA+Elysian Coin first time (and almost burning out in the process) I can see how "absurd AL" has become tons more accessible - the ones in my reach I will use strategically also (for best gains + not losing my mind in the process of grinding while having these active, so, not too often in the year anyway)
and be it one poua per event shop ever, or one yearly (and do note - grinding to another 150 levels will be a grind of its own with time so that will self limit things as well) I would presume the insane AL topic is just around the corner either way
atm already it's what - technically another +12 POUAs next to those "per guild ones"

covert raven
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Next buff coming soon?

sudden flicker
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  • I agree that DM give too many mats when fully buffed (so that you mainly get ALs with DMs instead of playing the game).
  • Though, if I understand it correctly, your guild rank/EP will not reset, so when the first PoUA requires at least rank 150, the second already requires at least rank 300, with substantially higher XP requirement. Because of this, I don't really see the problem of access to "infinite" PoUA.
  • However, I would still argue that the mats bonus from gear/astral tree/events/shrine/consumables (coin, PoUA) could simply be changed to being additive instead of multiplicative. 1) Mats/rewards would be much smaller when stacking the buffs, 2) it would be ok to use the items/shrines individually instead of feeling "forced" to use everything at the same time (which you even cannot freely choose but you should do it during a specific event).
covert raven
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Seems like the exp lvl solved the issue of POUA. I almost forget that it is not reset.
Double the effort to get the POUA!

Point 2 force to use.
I would disagree on this.

No one is forced to use it. Just like tower buff I show in previous post.

There's no weekly buff, no event buff, only shrine, astral tree, coin and POUA.
But the person still use it.

I used my only POUA after the weekly buff.

Gankmobile use it for the last two days.

It's just how you plan your buff stack.

limber plover
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It s totally fine to add into a game some new mechanics allowing players to progress faster, just like tower release and so on. Imho, problem is when something completely absurdly strong appear, it makes balance impossible, it creates many issues, as discussed on the other topics when some unbalance happened, but this one is so much more absurd. By the way, for this one in particular, I m really wondering why it hasn t been catch before the release, as to me it feels obvious it can t be a good idea to stack multi on something already pointed long ago as debatable (now it s not even debatable, a quick look in T&T channel is enough, and to me, it s not a triumph for this wonderful game !)

covert raven
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Multiple buff stacking is not a new thing. A lot of other ppl been doing it for some time.

It's just that now more ppl got access to POUA and suddenly it becomes a problem lol.
TBH everyone have the same chance at getting it.

It's only bad for those who wanted to maintain leaderboard ranking.

Or ppl who missed out on this.

Or PvP.

How can it be unbalance when everyone have the same POUA, buff, shrines and coins?

Is it unbalance or there's some other reasons?

The shattered memories weekly buff was shown previous month before.
Just look at event page. Next month buff is already there.

The apollyon event buff is a repeat buff and someone mention that it got nerf.

The coins/proofs buff is all accessible last 2 months.

Even the gears for memory buff is available.

The only unbalance thing for me is that I can't spend 100 DM in an hour because I don't have a high end phone.
I am only able to spend 500 DM (1.5k for others) for that 2 day buff from POUA after the lag.

covert raven
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The T&T channel just shows ppl are happy with their mat gains.

I'm happy for them.
A few of them spend 3 POUA they get before current event, during current event and from Ornaversary.
Plus the DM grinding.

Everyone have the exact chance to get the same thing as them.

Unbalance?

  1. New amity that is not accessible for everyone. Especially 100% Fishing and 100% BOF. It should go into the public amity pool.

  2. % Damage based reward on Raid.
    A lot of players was asking about it.

  3. Ornate amities.
    Player 1 can never have the same unique ornate amities as player 2 unless they party share it.
    Gatekeeping ornate amities is a thing among kingdom.
    The chance of getting the same one is so low thaat my 100/100 gear looks like baby

ancient tartan
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So I suspect all these fuss is due to POUA stacking with other buff.

Let me remind POUA is not just hard to obtain but also soft capped in the number you can obtain.

Currently you can only obtain POUA via guild lvl (hard capped to 1 per build) and via event allegiance.

You can technically obtain unlimited of them via allegiance, but practically I suspect most players will at most get 1 unless you grind it out hardcore. The amount of effort to obtain the 2nd POUA (lvl 301 minimum) will take at least 2-3 times the effort to get the 1st one (lvl 151 minimum)

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it gets progressive harder to grind every consecutive allegiance point, so I am not sure why people have the illusion "since I can grind the 1st one easily, then it must be equally easy to grind the 2nd one next time"

limber plover
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Oh god I didn t miss threads

gleaming cosmos
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Ok don't change anything, but it better not trickle into war balance threads next month

covert raven
hushed bronze
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People saying that guild level increasing will be enough to slow down the number of poua obtainable are wildly underestimating the grinders in this game

Imo Elysian coin is bad enough and should stop getting offered in alligence rewards, and poua should be a one time reward

gleaming cosmos
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Agreed, most of the event poua have been a fairly non-intense grind for me, possible to get a 2nd by during short rerun and almost certainly during next full cycle

hushed bronze
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Even before the coin got introduced, running towers and then using the shards to buy dms was technically the most efficient mat grinding method. The coin doubles that for a whopping two days, it should be a rare reward

limber plover
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Agreed

hidden iron
covert raven
covert raven
limber plover
# covert raven I mean, shouldn't ppl be rewarded for grinding?

That s not what we re saying and those people you re talking about are insane grinders. One of the issue is having something way way way insanely stronger in grinding method, to a point doing it for a few hours is better regarding rewards compared to months of hard grind in other contents.

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Eben taking into account time to prep for it*

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And when i said months, it s talking about months of hard grind for hardcore player.

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And trust me, as a lvl 186 nekro I know what grinding means

hushed bronze
# covert raven I mean, shouldn't ppl be rewarded for grinding?

That's not my issue.

The issue is the type of content it is. A game where the most effective method of grinding is spamming shitty toddler puzzles all the time is not a game I want to play. That isn't gameplay to me. I originally picked this game up because the art and gameplay style reminded me of final fantasy. I want to build a character and watch it grow stronger and take on increasingly challenging content. Having to put that aside to spam toddler puzzles is not enjoyable in the slightest. I'm not going to keep going if I have to do that in order to keep up with people who apparently don't mind it

covert raven
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So u are saying, if I grind harder, like the other insane grinders, I shouldn't be rewarded for it?

Are ppl gonna stop grinding after this event?

hushed bronze
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Are you being intentionally obtuse?

limber plover
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Doing some....puzzles

covert raven
# hushed bronze That's not my issue. The issue is the type of content it is. A game where the m...

That's another issue.
I never said grinding it is enjoyable.

I'm saying if u grind for it, plan for it, u should be rewarded as it is.
Everyone have the same information of what's coming, same buff.

Just because all the buff stacks together doesn't mean their grind shouldn't be rewarded accordingly.

So what if it took them 1 week to get what they can get in months.

U have the same chance to do so.
I have the same chance to do so.
Everyone have the same opportunity to do so.

When everyone have the same imba stack buff, is it really imba farming?

covert raven
limber plover
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The best thing you said here is the word "accordingly". Ils absolutely not rewarding accordingly to all the other contents in the game and it s not even close. There s no need in a game to have something completely overboosted to have people happy about their grinding. And i tend to think it creates at some point thé opposite with FOMO and so on

limber plover
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Reward is at least a good part of what makes me happy to run tower dungeons and so on. If something is here offering me a millions Time more reward than those contents, I m not sure I would be so happy to engage in it

covert raven
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"I tend to think it creates at some point the opposite with FOMO"

Wait what's the opposite of fear?

So if a content rewards u, u don't like it?
Damnnnnnnnn

hushed bronze
limber plover
limber plover
covert raven
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Oh so now it's not about balance or being imba.

It's about whether ppl enjoy the content or not.

I thought this thread is about

"Balance".

Ok got it. U are right.
It's not enjoyable.
I support u on this. Same as @hushed bronze .

It's definitely not enjoyable. I would love a buff that applies to better enjoyable content too in the future.

hushed bronze
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Sorry it kind of turned into a dm thread since that's the biggest balance issue and threat to the long term health of this game right now

covert raven
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Remove mini games!

clear wind
gleaming cosmos
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I think there's a little bit of nuance being lost here referring to efficiencies of anguish 1.0 time. DM are certainly overpowered when buffed, but don't think I would ever run unbuffed DMs in the anguish 2.0 world. I really think the issues arise with access to poua and the increased dm efficiencies introduced this month.

hushed bronze
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Also, do you want to see players hitting al 500+ this year? Because that's what's gonna happen

gleaming cosmos
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I do if its me

hushed bronze
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Lmao

clear wind
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Yeah we need to not act like gate keepers here. I've been using it but if we change it now everyone that got a big boost is now head and shoulders ahead of everyone.

hushed bronze
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The best time to address this issue was when great Oracle first came out. The second best time is now

gleaming cosmos
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Just a bit of context here is I ran 5 PoUA memory grinds prior to April and they were mostly pretty extensive grinds gave up a lot of resources and were 10-15 AL each, gradually getting lowered.

This month I used 3 PoUA I got from event grinds that were all highly efficient in their own right and were 20+ AL each due to the DM changes and event buffs.

clear wind
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As you gain more als you need more mats also

gleaming cosmos
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Yeah which is why it was dwindling per poua prior to the DM changes and event this month

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The one I ran in March DM event was like 8-10 AL

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But yeah I don't think the solution is pull up the ladder but maybe stop introducing new ones and revert some of the efficiency changes the new DMs introduced

hushed bronze
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100% what geppu is saying. I'm not suggesting gatekeeping, but poua and Elysian coin need to get a lot more rare in the future and both should be one time rewards for every event

clear wind
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If it were your game how would you try to keep everyone engaged? I'm sure Odie wants everyone to play as much as possible. Why play the event if there is nothing to get. We have all been engaging because of the PoUA reward. So I don't think a one time reward is the way.

gleaming cosmos
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I think most of these events are worth engaging with in their own right. Plenty of people engaged in morrigan and thronemakers without one

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Tower coins and God making tools are great rewards (and could also stand to be a bit more expensive imo)

clear wind
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I'm sure he has stats and I'm sure it's been improving engagement which is why he keeps adding them to every event.

hushed bronze
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I guarantee it's contributing to burnout too though. There has to be a balance

gleaming cosmos
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Those stats would also have to decouple the engagement from not having one for that event which seems difficult. Crimson was great for melancholy as well. Polly is a great melancholy despair and gear event.

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I think ornaversary is probably worth having one tbh, but that's a special event.

clear wind
gleaming cosmos
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Like I wouldn't mind if there was 1-3 that you could only get once across the year, particularly if more expensive.

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Fear of missing out is great for avoiding burnout mimic

hushed bronze
gleaming cosmos
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There should definitely be an AL leaderboard now though, since its highly different nowadays than what contributes to global

limber plover
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Indeed, AL is not what gives/gave the most points for ranking for people on top of global

sudden flicker
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The leaderboard of seers guild is already highly correlated with AL leaderboard, and will increase further.

covert raven
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So we revert back to 5 steps instead of 4?

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Because that's the only difference that DM have after the update.

covert raven
gleaming cosmos
covert raven
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Wait, u are not happy that you got 20AL ? Instead you are happy that you get 10-15AL?

damnnn indeed a certified grinder.

DM only changes from 5 to 4 steps and the reward was actually average out from the 5th steps to 1-4 steps. Odie didn't buff the DM. So the rewards is the same in total across 1 DM.

The stack buff is because it accidentally falls on the weekly buff.
I don't think there will be another buff like this, this year.

So how do random puzzles and fix puzzle affects DM farming again?
U farm faster because it is fix? Or you don't get that bored from it?

gleaming cosmos
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I know the rewards is same for 1 DM but now you can do them faster so you can do more during the buff window. Fixed puzzles lets you scout quick puzzles which can be a 30 second difference per hunt. I am happy I got 20 AL but I will always use the strongest method. Doesn't mean its good for game health.

covert raven
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  1. Reduce step.
    The only complain I heard from others is that the orns reward wasn't enough.
    You are the first to mention that reduce steps is actually bad.

  2. Fixed puzzles.
    It still will be fixed after the event.
    So you still saved 30s per scout. It's still the strongest method.
    And I'm glad that it is fixed. Saved me a lot of time from scouting.

  3. Buff window.
    Would you stop doing scouting after the buff windows?
    I mean unless you have all the good amities. You probably will. But I don't think anyone have all the amities yet?
    Maybe I'm wrong.

gleaming cosmos
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This conversation is really more about using DMs for materials than scouting amities. I typically don't do much scouting myself outside of large grinds for mats and rely on parties for amity.

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I don't think less steps is bad just the increase to materials per step had some unforeseen consequences

covert raven
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You do know that if it was revert back to 5 steps, you still get the same amount of mats right?

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Per DM.

fossil ruin
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Same per DM but less DMs per hour and therefore less DMs per booster.

limber plover
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(just a small detail about those 20 AL we re talking about : if I m correct it s like from 350 to 370 Al or something like that.
Now some quick maths with kids equation : (370x371)/2 = 68 635
⬆️ Meaning 370 AL is equivalent of 68 635 times 1 AL (please don t remind me mats for first few AL can be lower as you may only need 3... Just sayin')
(350x351)/2 = 61 425
⬆️ Starting point
68 635 - 61 425 = 7 140
⬆️ Meaning those 20 AL at this level are 7 210 times one AL.
(120x121)/2 = 7 260
It means those 20 AL we re talking about are nearly the same cost as what s needed to jump from AL 0 to AL 120)

covert raven
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Ya I know, someone did the exactly same thing and jump from 0 to 122 lvl.
Gankmobile is the grinder who did it.

limber plover
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That s about 3 times what you needed for your AL71

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next step is probably directly fishing AL in between krakens

covert raven
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Ya I know, I reach 63-100 AL with one POUA used after the buff week.

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I mean for the whole month.

limber plover
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To me, it's not healthy for the game. If you love to grind AL, having something that better than anything else then on a pure AL grinding perspective it means you just have to focus only on this weird thing and other contents are just cosmetic and waste of time (again, in grinding perspective)

covert raven
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And I'm still gonna grind until end of the event.
It's only a month.

Will you stop playing Orna after this month?

Or are you grinding AL too much that you forget there's other content?

I stop grinding for Ornaversary EXP lvl after lvl 40.
I switch to other mix content.
PvP, raids, monument and amities hunting.

limber plover
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Why the hell would I do anything else. And it sounds weird as one of the main goal of having different contents, anguish 2.0 and so on was to offer various way to grind for your character, so trying to keep a decent balance seems healthy. I would not do this as I m truly not a DM enjoyer, it's not something I have fun doing. But when I m on a grind of tower/dungeons and so on, I have fun but part of the fun I have in it is thinking I m doing some good grinding, and it's not true anymore if something else is so much better. Just in case, I would not love to see one of my favorite content suddenly becoming much better rewarding rewards compared to another, because it also means removing something important in an RPG : a balance between chalenge and rewards.

covert raven
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Okkkkk.

So why the hell would I stop grinding for Ornaversary XP lvl at lvl 40.

It's a choice.
I'm not a grinder.

limber plover
clear wind
#

Doing amities are healthier than filling refinaries at least and more intricate than farming dungeons. Should you get more resources for doing more steps?

Step 1 do bof to earn tokens
step 2 buy amities for 50 tokens
step 3 stock up on coins
step 4 wait for a memory event.
Step 5 profit

Imo that should reward a decent amount for the effort.

limber plover
covert raven
limber plover
limber plover
clear wind
limber plover
#

If it didn t change it's by far tower...

gleaming cosmos
#

Yeah bof is top tier now

limber plover
#

For real ? 😱🤣

#

It's better than towers for dm s grind ? My...

gleaming cosmos
#

Yeah you can get up to 20 tokens a win at max streak

covert raven
limber plover
covert raven
limber plover
#

I m maybe still top 10 tho !

covert raven
limber plover
#

I don t play

#

Stoped 10 months ago

covert raven
#

Wait so u started the whole thread to complain?

#

Brooooooo

limber plover
#

This thread started a year ago, bro

#

I m just chillin' here as what happened this months bring back some memories

covert raven
#

Oh shit. This is years ago.

limber plover
#

One yeah I guess for this one

covert raven
#

My bad.

#

I guess odie wanted us to enjoy the buff then.

Great.

limber plover
#

Most certainly

dusty tinsel
covert raven
dusty tinsel
#

Goodluck streaking

covert raven
hushed bronze
clear wind
sudden flicker
#

5 steps sounds like effort and serious gameplay. But if the steps are just "buy DMs", "stock up coins", "wait for event", and "profit", I am not entirely sure about it 😂 And even BoF is 90% easy wins. So the required knowledge and gear requirement is really minimal, except for farming PoUA.

hushed bronze
# clear wind One is so easy a monkey can do it 😂

Actually running it yeah. You want that part to be brainless and fast. The fun part is getting the gear and working on your build for maximum efficiency. When it gets too easy you up the anguish and work some more on your build. There's no such gameplay loop for dms

clear wind
#

You need good gear for bof also... Slamming NPCs isn't the most efficient if you can't beat real players. You can get dms many different ways. Towers used to be the best.

limber plover
#

/sug 1 fish = 1 AL
So maybe at some point it will be absurd and obvious enough

hushed bronze
#

Yes there are tons of good ways to get dms, the game kind of throws them at you nowadays. But my point is all those methods are actual gameplay where you get to use the strength of your characters gear and ascension levels. Running dms are the only part of that loop where you're not getting to do that. I'd prefer to keep playing actual content instead of having to stop and run baby puzzles because they're too lucrative to ignore

sudden flicker
limber plover
#

Oh god

covert raven
limber plover
#

Someone alt*

#

Better

covert raven
#

*someone alt

clear wind
#

I guess we all have a 250 alt now. Time to get working on one. Seems like its way easier to just run dungs lol.

fossil ruin
#

Popping into BoF just to see someone run double reward amities is my new guilty pleasure, I love ruining their streaks mighty_mimic

clear wind
#

Yeah it's a huge disadvantage

#

Risk it for the biscuit 🍪

sudden flicker
fossil ruin
limber plover
#

It was already Infinite 😅

fossil ruin
#

But now you can do it in 24h 😅

clear wind
#

You can get enough orns for 300als in one poua

fossil ruin
#

You don’t even need a poua, just HoC to GS for a day and hit your head against the screen in endless

limber plover
#

Sounds like enhanced version of last year indeed

#

But oh, it still take a few step to hoc you know, and people have to receive rewards for their efforts

#

Opening char screen is not that easy

covert raven
#

You don't even need HOC.

limber plover
#

You still have to open the game

#

That s also a step

covert raven
#

It used to be only GS being able to do that. But not anymore.