Anguish Live Feedback

[languid adder]

Cant wait until 2028 before it's adressed

Sorry for the cynism, just worried.

Fun fact, in our player summary we still have a function for "claimed territorys"
It does not include conquerer guild captures.
To anybody with OCD, you're welcome!

If that is really the case, then disabling proof drops the moment ang 2 hit the servers wpuld have been the play? I dont see that be the reason, else the rewards would have been stopped already

[full peak]

You mean reputation? Or Areas taken? Not sure rn.
Reputation is territories/crown whatever is higher.
Areas taken ...are areas taken.

[languid adder]

Thank you.
Instead of adjusting every system to the alt problem... tackle the alt problem.
Its not even fun to do, i can't name you a single person that enjoys menuing through multiple characters.
You have 0 limits on your account, except as a wayvessel slave or farm booster, or maybe a challenge run i dont see a reason for alts to exist.

But that doesnt to apply to 9,5/10 ppl, most people get overwhelmed when they get told to upgrade their OS already, so its a start

Holy shit i need to stop reading everything.

[languid adder]

Reputation is current, i mean specifically the one that summarizes all areas you ever taken into a number

[fierce cedar]

luck doesn't affect proof drops, right?

[paper void]

That one only shows if they were part of the old area control system, as that number is still part of their record.

What is the problem with that?

[umbral blaze]

👀

(monster aspects in ang 2.0 shop when tho)

[left mauve]

i dont understand the patch note

i would gladly have someone explaining me x)

[dim jacinth]

turning shackles off is more forgiving

[sinful vapor]

Pog

[umbral blaze]

When shifting from ang 4 to ang 5 (unshackled) you wont go from 18% (proof drop chance estimate) to say 0.2%, instead the bonuses after ang 4 will have a penalty applied to them. So you'll have say 18% + 0.1%

[left mauve]

okay, even with you saying it i still dont understand it this way reading the patchnote x)

[sinful vapor]

Shackles usually limit bonuses

They won't limit the bonuses accrued from 1-4

Only extra bonuses from 5+

[dim jacinth]

live // beta (the patch coming in ~30mins)

[fierce cedar]

i wonder if anyone will use it like this (higher unshackled anguish vs staying off/ 4)

[ancient raven]

e.g:

say each anguish level you get +5% orns, for simplicity, and say unshackled reduce that to 0.5% each level:

At Anguish level 7:
before, with shackles off, it would be:
0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 3.5%
now, with shackles off, it would be:
5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 21.5%

shackles will now only reduce the added bonuses you get from Anguish levels 5+, including EXP, Orn, Gold, Luck, Proof chance, Gear chance, and Item Drop Quality bonus

[sinful vapor]

100% will be using higher ang levels, it'll be more rewards than 4

And unshackled means my ALs will be able to handle the higher anguish. Ths way I can be my character progressing up to the correct anguish level for me instead of AL8 me

Will still experiment with shackles for sure, may be better overall

[fierce cedar]

i think you meant shackles off

shackle shackle shackle

[ancient raven]

yeah

[finite flint]

that's the right way to do it, very good

[grave fulcrum]

I still want slidy bar hehe

[finite flint]

should be done for tower as well imho

[grave fulcrum]

Wdym

[finite flint]

oh wait it does work for tower

mybad i read agony only

[fierce cedar]

related to anguish

[umbral blaze]

It's for all anguish

[finite flint]

but that's the other line

[grave fulcrum]

No it's anguish as a whole

[finite flint]

this is good

very very good

[grave fulcrum]

This is possible?

[finite flint]

well done odie

[grave fulcrum]

I didn't know the fight could change to have a zerk enemy in the midst of a tower group

[umbral blaze]

It's a malus

[fierce cedar]

lol yes

[umbral blaze]

1% chance for zerk

[grave fulcrum]

Oh shiz

That's scary

[fierce cedar]

rofl. i want to fight it!

but i dont want to lose the tower

[grave fulcrum]

I don't like dealing with zerks in my dungeons

And the zerks in towers are scary enough

I don't need more

[sturdy stump]

triple zerk nidhogg encounter

[fierce cedar]

lol. i killed the cactaur and the beo vers3 hit for 32k

.. i may need to change my spec

[weak steeple]

How do we feel about the changes today

[sinful vapor]

Great steps, especially the endless scaling bug

😂

[fierce cedar]

i think it introduces a moving sweet spot depending on a players lvl, instead of anguish 4

[grave fulcrum]

A step in the right direction but could be better
I want a dang slidy bar to determine Al used instead of either required amount or max

[thin storm]

i need to reach those lvls to understand what it means 🙈

[mystic rose]

Sucks that people will just be running unshackled even further into anguish now, instead of them just doing ang 4. I don't think it solves that original problem raised, just means people can do it at even higher ang

[sinful vapor]

Sounds like agony proofs took a sizeable hit

[umbral blaze]

Apparently 50% of before patch

[mystic rose]

That I do like, think agony was a bit to rewarding

[sinful vapor]

Idk if 50% cut was correct

I'd have gone with 25% cut to agony, 25% boost to despair lol

[mystic rose]

Was generally getting 20 to 30 before. I'll see what my new drops are

[pearl mango]

Man what is this i get 3-6proofs solo from ang13raids lol

[sinful vapor]

Oh wait, are you doing unshackled?

[pearl mango]

Nope lol

[dire phoenix]

Same from Agony 6 shackled..

[sinful vapor]

Sounds like it may be bugged then lol

[dire phoenix]

Even just 1

[sinful vapor]

Unshackled rate applying even while shackled, perhaps? Post a screenshot of your agony page and the rewards you're getting

[solid tiger]

Same here shackled Ang 7 3-6 proofs

[pearl mango]

Agony before was pretty fine i dont understand the needing to nerf agony before this current nerf needed about
5000-6000 anguished raids to your current level to get anguish 50 considering all those scrolls your gonna grind and all those raids that are gonna have millions of hp and alot of malusus that are making yiu suffer more

Its was pretty reasonable

I hope NF see this and think about reverting the change cuz it truly truly was not needed

[sinful vapor]

Post screenshots

[mystic rose]

I'm seeing around 6-12 rn

[solid tiger]

I mean agony was the fastest by far, I think we can all agree on that, but nerfing it this badly instead of buffing the other paths when everyone on the community is complaining how painfully slow the other paths are is not the move

[fierce cedar]

de ja vu

[mystic rose]

I'm for a nerf to drop rates, think agony was way too good after the buff

If it's the right amount now, not sure

[pearl mango]

Ang12 i just did those

[sinful vapor]

Post your agony page

[fierce cedar]

how many turns did that big fey cockatrice last against you?

[severe junco]

for me currently agony is what i mostly engage with rn in terms of anguish and for the most part just to increase the item drop quality bonus since i want more ornates for less scrolls and pretty much dont care for any ornate drop besides from raids since they are abundant anyways in other content

[sinful vapor]

And you were getting 6 on the high end, 3 on the low end?

Definitely sounds bugged if people on ang6 and 7 are getting same rates shackled

[pearl mango]

Maybe bugged

[fierce cedar]

bug is that t8 raid giving proofs while t9 mobs ignore anguish

[mystic rose]

Could be ang 6 averages closer to 3, ang 12 averages closer to 6

[pearl mango]

Now odie makes only t10raids give proofs

🦛

[fierce cedar]

😂😂

[pearl mango]

Have fun using 300scrolls to only do 70raids for proofs

Lol

[fierce cedar]

t8+ raid and mob giving anguish would be nice

[pearl mango]

Thats rly rly bad like if i average 6at 12and i need 1380 for next level thats 200raids solo or 500raids duo since duo gives less than half the proofs

[fierce cedar]

whatd you guess, 2-3 weeks?

[pearl mango]

Wym?

[fierce cedar]

"bad" as in time cost?

so itd maybe 200 raids in 2-3 weeks? longer?

assuming you were going for it

[pearl mango]

For 1lvl

Assuming i would do all solo

Im hoa so i do 2uws every hour till i go sleep and i get 15-25 scrolls a day

Thats around 8days of scroll farming

Then i have to do the raids

And im hardcoring it idk how many would do uws every hour every day

[fierce cedar]

best i ever got while active was a couple hundred scrolls per week in orna

[turbid sedge]

This nerve agony is terrible...

[fierce cedar]

but so sounds like 2-3 weeks, maybe a month for 1 lvl

[pearl mango]

Yea so its even harder for you guys

[turbid sedge]

I'd like some changes on the proofs of molancholy

the agony nerve no longer makes me want to evolve on this path

I have a question, would giving several proofs melancholy by mobs be a problem?

For example:

Ang1
When you get the proof, you can have between 1 and 2

Ang 10

Between 1-3

Ang 20

1-4

Etc...

Since the agony nerve no longer makes you want to invest, the dungeons do not earn you, the open world takes too long to do on Orna, what is left?

I like 2.0, but I don't see where it leads us now. The player is less and less reward I feel

[mystic rose]

I haven't had a problem with the melancholy rates myself, they seem pretty good so far

[paper void]

Yeah, Despair seems to be the only problem

[fierce cedar]

about this, itd be really cool if berserk enemies had a boost modifier to the shards for that battle

[turbid sedge]

I'm level 14 and I find it terribly long, I love the farm but I feel it's going to take months and months to evolve by being very active during the day

[vocal basalt]

The boost is -50% of your current shards lol

[fierce cedar]

LOL

its exciting tho, in a clenchy way

[mystic rose]

It's meant to be a longer form content

[nimble dirge]

the biggest thing is that overworld you can't really do horde like in dungeons, my thoughts are along the lines of having the option to toggle fights to have horde options if a player is engaged in anguish, and well, making sure the extra enemies are just normal monsters not more bosses

[turbid sedge]

Yes I agree but will the amount requested not be too much for the average player?

[nimble dirge]

that way it wouldn't be some big exp farm gain

[sinful vapor]

Any chance agony is bugged rn? Sounds like people might be getting unshackled rates when shackled, not sure

[fierce cedar]

this + a way to vary monsters

[mystic rose]

Imo, most rates seem fair right now

I would agree that Despair could use a bump up over anything

[full peak]

When you realise you need ~4000 dungeons to hit ang30. Or ~8900 dungeons to hit ang50.

[nocturne night]

That seems fine by me considering ang30 is 5 whole levels above the old cap

[nimble dirge]

well, it's meant to be a challenge, not easily achieved 😛

and like John Egbert said the ratios don't match

50 != 50

[mystic rose]

Sounds fine to me

[turbid sedge]

That's right, I'm almost 1,000 dungeons since the beginning of 2.0 and I'm lvl 14

[fierce cedar]

youve done 1000 dungeons..

since 2.0, isnt that like 2 weeks?

[nocturne night]

1000 dungeons in 14 days is feasible, if a bit scary

[turbid sedge]

870~

[paper void]

This, yeah. 25 should always be used as the baseline for soft max

(and it should take a while)

[severe junco]

i personally dont think the challenge should lie in the grind but instead in the difficulty but some grind im fine with the question is just which numbers truly would feel "good"

[umbral blaze]

With the current state of anguish 2.0, people are no longer really worried/mad about proof rates or or shop costs, all that people don't like are the level up costs. They just want to do harder content earlier. (Not what I'm dissatisfied about, I just want great monster aspects back in the shop)

[turbid sedge]

Then I only do dungeons, nothing else. I want to rush the lvl 50 but it's the more I evolve and the less I want to xD

[nocturne night]

And this is why I think demonworking tools shouldn't have happened, so that the grind of getting better items would've naturally also taken long and matched up with the proof costs

[umbral blaze]

(exception being world farming which is just bad)

[paper void]

Oh, please do not set your goal as level 50

[sturdy stump]

This. It just feels a bit like a slog to get to the difficulty I want to do in the first place

[full peak]

Its a good goal.

Forever ..

[nocturne night]

Level 50 is kind of a very ambicious goal for all paths

[turbid sedge]

47 🫠

[paper void]

no!

[umbral blaze]

100

[full peak]

And what else should I set as goal when I want lv150 for final reward?

[full peak]

Agony and melancholy are fastest, so those 2 will definetly go above 50

[nimble dirge]

the true reward is pain and suffering

[turbid sedge]

We're here for this after all

[short osprey]

So If 25-30 is the goal, high AL players being able to use their full ALs was never even part of the plan?

[pearl mango]

Odie proceed to make them even slower

[fierce cedar]

soft max =/= what youre saying, Sirith

[dire phoenix]

Yes but this patch about the nerf Agony Proof rate make me feels bad... I mean i understand the true fact that we can grow very fast the Agony levels, maybe a little bit to much... But this nerf make me feels loose all sensations of progressing into the game

[pearl mango]

Its not too much lmao

It took me raiding 7hours a day

Since update dropped

To get to 13

NO AVERAGE PLAYER IS DOING THAT

nor will they have the scrolls for it

[mystic rose]

What class

[pearl mango]

🦛

[pearl mango]

Gilga

The thing thats making me mad is this isnt increasing the difficulty its just forcing it to take more time

To reach X anguish lvl

[dire phoenix]

I was focus on DG melancholy at start btw

Not raid

[mystic rose]

It's designed to take longer

[dire phoenix]

The only limit to go further is your capacity to grind Al's... There is no Anguish limit so why make it more harder than it was before ?

[pastel owl]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-26833875

[nimble dirge]

if you accomplish it too fast than you lose something to work on

it's nice to have something to work on inbetween event content

[languid adder]

Not a problem, just with conq now beeing a factor, it would be cool to also include that, as it technically is almost the same thing, and since conquerer was supposed to replace the area control system and the "reputation" function already factors in both, the areas taken could do the same (could be renamed to territorys taken, or something)

[languid adder]

now the choice is between added difficulty, but only slightly more rewards, or less power and full rewards
That is a huge improvement to how it was before, where it was lose-lose before, cause you got less loot from ang 5 unshackled then anguish 4 unshackled.

or basically, how you turned it, if you were high al, it was less from 5 then 4.

[solid tiger]

But how many people are going to play unshackled when it's clearly a slower way to progress?

[pearl mango]

No one even me an als 40played shackled until ang13 since the start

[solid tiger]

In my opinion, everyone's goal is to reach high enough anguish that is hard enough at our ALs, and that clearly the goal of anguish since it also has an AL cap. But making the way there is boring and not very rewarding with how slow it is now, we want to anguish gear but we can't really spend proofs since our main goal is to climb anguish. Some of you guys say that its slow cuz it's designed to take longer and I don't think that should be the case, it's gonna be an endless grind tied to your ALs, but having to spend hundreds of hours doing boring easy grind to get the hard part is kind of a joke

[mystic rose]

I imagine plenty will play unshackled for at least the low ang now, or just remain farming at 4 like they have been

[solid tiger]

Making a "hard" long grind longer and easier is completely the opposite of the point of this new system

[mystic rose]

I didn't like making unshackled better myself

[solid tiger]

I think it shouldn't even be an option

I can see 200Als complaining that their grind was for nothing, but that would be solved if the journey to their respective anguish-al cap would be faster

[fierce cedar]

there's not supposed to be a high enough ascension anymore where farming becomes more efficient... that was a mistake of ang1.0

thats my understanding

[nimble dirge]

I feel like allowing people at a really high AL to instantly win is kind of a fun kill

Especially when it comes to a leaderboard

[solid tiger]

If we could have something that made you get more proofs based on how far your current shackled level is to your AL the more proofs you get, that would make everyone reach their AL-anguish cap at the same rate, with how the shop items scale in price with each anguish it would make the 50Als earn the exact same thing that the 200AL, everyone would have the same rewards and everyone would enjoy a difficult challenge

Just throwing ideas

[fierce cedar]

"al anguish cap" isnt a thing

like that you own

[solid tiger]

You literally have to reach certain ALs to go up in anguish

That's what I mean by AL-anguish cap

[fierce cedar]

yea but youre saying, if i am AL 55, then my "AL Anguish Cap" is (some anguish lvl)

and that i deserve to be given it???????

by virtue of having done the ascending first??????

[solid tiger]

When you reach that point the challenge for yours should be the same as someone with 75 ALs that has reached his

[fierce cedar]

thats what shackles are

[solid tiger]

That's not what I mean, I mean that reaching that point should be our goal with this new anguish no?

[fierce cedar]

its not a point. ascension goes up forever, so does anguish lvl

maybe youre going to stop at anguish 10 cause its too hard

how could you possibly know, not having done it yet?

[pearl mango]

🦛

[nimble dirge]

Odie mentioned earlier that Ang 25ish is roughly around where the old Ang50 is

[short osprey]

I've been grinding towers with shackles on since for over a week now, and it wasn't bad at first, but after reaching Torment 8 I don't see this as being anywhere close to reasonable for how strong enemies are...
Even with nearly perfect, Ang5+ gear, I've tried 4 different approaches/builds and I can't see how when set to AL 17 I'm supposed to deal with +144% enemy stats and all these maluses, in a way that isn't just a complete waste of time in the fact that I could earn more just staying at 4

[pearl mango]

In my opinion shackles should be set differently for each content

[fierce cedar]

is this good or bad for you?

[solid tiger]

Rn I'm AL 52 which I think that's shackles 20, I can't possibly go up to 25 cuz I will need more ALs , but I was able to do Ang 50 at als 30, so I will be stuck with easier content than Ang 1.0? I don't think that's the point of this anguish

[pearl mango]

Als count from all classes

[short osprey]

Bad, im saying the difficulty of the content feels absolutely insane when weighted against the rewards

[pearl mango]

If you have 20als on 5classes

Thats als100

So you can unluck ang33

[fierce cedar]

i think its good - not only do they create a challenge mode we can play w/ friends ("do that at ang 10...") we can farm at ang 4 at a controlled pace, and the game has a sandbox for powercreep

[pearl mango]

....????

🦛

Play at anguish,4

Have fun with that

40000dgs to reach ang50

If not way more

[fierce cedar]

whats the point of hitting ang 50 tho

[solid tiger]

Why play anguish which is supposed to be the hard content at ang 4 when its pisseasy

[solid tiger]

A challenge?

[pearl mango]

Anguish is infnite now so whats the point of not hitting higher levels?

[fierce cedar]

so play it with shackles "its too hard"

[short osprey]

The thing is you won't be able to run Ang10 at any reasonable rate as it's kinda impossible for the AL it sets you at

[turbid sedge]

like many, we want to reach 100% proof rate to finally focus on stuff and buying compo

[pearl mango]

Also if i can barely grind anguish levels when am i gonna have enough proofs to anguish my gear?

Isnt that the point of this new anguish?

[short osprey]

There is a difference between "too hard" and "borderline impossible to complete at a reasonable rate"

[solid tiger]

We won't be able to do any of that until we reach our anguish cap

[languid adder]

Is it really about earning more at anguish 4, do you want efficiency - or do you prefer beeing rewarded for the higher difficulty instead?

[fierce cedar]

powercreep is real and if the optional end game difficulty is too hard for reasonable players to progress through, that gives a huge opportunity for cool new stuff, dont you think?

[pearl mango]

Huh?

[short osprey]

But the problem is the reward does not match the difficulty what so ever

[fierce cedar]

🦆

[pearl mango]

If its too hard it gives oprutunity for cool new stuff

Lmao

Wtf

Truly a

🦛

Moment

[nimble dirge]

Honestly until people are wearing anguish gear around the relevant level

I think it's too hard to gauge

[pearl mango]

I am i am

[languid adder]

i get what youre trying to say but that reads "if its unsolvable rn, guess we have to wait for new items" or "if its not doable rn people just have to create a solution out of their ass"

[nimble dirge]

Not just weapon

[short osprey]

Im wearing full Ang4/5 gear... I feel Ang8 should at least be reasonable with that

[pearl mango]

Anguishing my gear wont benefit my ward amount for raiding as gilga

Nor benefit my dmg by alot

[languid adder]

anguish 12 weapon
Anguish 1 armors
youre not wearing appropriate anguish gear for your level

[fierce cedar]

when raids came out, raid ult would deal 99999 dmg and kill you, 1h cooldown, and no one could mitigate it

[pearl mango]

What does having ang12armor benefit for me ( im using swash) so i dint benefit from def/res

[fierce cedar]

then, some stuff was changed and added and one person got through the ult

[languid adder]

HP & Mana does, all your equip has Mana, and one has HP

[short osprey]

It will tho, get that helm/boots to 12 and your HP/Mana will increase your ward

[languid adder]

ward aka survivability

[fierce cedar]

this stuff im saying isnt im making it up, its happened many times already while Orna has been growing up

[pearl mango]

🦛 but i can barely make enough proofs to level up my anguish first

Cant afford to spend 3k proofs to anguish everything else

[nimble dirge]

It's meant to take awhile

[fierce cedar]

(imo working as intended)

[pearl mango]

I am grinding all anguish types to make enough spare proofs to level up my gear

I dont see the average player doing that

[languid adder]

i get what you trying to say its just not what what you said up there X3
People will get creative, ye
But the moment you have to full buff for every tower fight, or at least buff once with mimic for WoO and Mimics, rewards presented in towers are not feasable

[peak pond]

I really liked to have a challenge with shackles, which is also rewarding. Will I still activate shackles for such small benefits? I am not sure...

[nimble dawn]

I feel shackles should be inverted
you lose more and more AL as you go up the guild
which would explain why you need a minimum ascension level to level
since you would need the ascension to lose it

[pearl mango]

Shackles can stay

[nimble dawn]

It's wierd how it works right now

[pearl mango]

JJust make anguish more rewarding

[nimble dawn]

I am not against schackles existing

[languid adder]

thats just a really weak argument.
Life is also supposed to take a while tho i want to reach my appropriate anguish before the heat death of the known univers, tyvm X3

[nimble dawn]

they just feel wierd

[fierce cedar]

i mean, sure, thats your opinion, but theres also a guy who has fishing guild 400 so who knows whats feasible

[solid tiger]

Maybe get some random proofs for breaking anguish gear would help

[pearl mango]

Also all the ppl saying it should take a while i would like to see their anguish level

[broken pike]

Still insane though

[pearl mango]

He said stay at anguish 4 to farm

[fierce cedar]

"my appropriate anguish" is just like . that ascension and time efficiency you thought was yours, was never yours

[pearl mango]

Gurnn calculation was if you play at current max anguish

[nimble dirge]

It's not an argument. I'm just saying it's working as intended

[nimble dawn]

I feel making your AL slowly vanish as you raise anguish would fit better than MASSIVE AL drop at 5 and then gaining more and more AL
losing 3 ascension levels at 5 would explain why you need at least 3 AL to do lvl 5 since you would not be allowed to have negative ascensions

[pearl mango]

🦛 full screenshot

[languid adder]

and their AL.
Almost all people who want it to take a while have no AL that they get devaluated until they progress high enough, and the more i chat in here i more feel its envy people think we shouldnt have a faster catchup.

[languid adder]

okay, fair.

[naive lynx]

Just gonna throw this out there, raids and dungeons are good easing into shackles and such. Towers definitely need a fix. Ang5 with shackles is doable but suuuuper slow. I can't imagine the rising monster stats with such a small increment to ours. Towers are not torment it's just not feasible after a bit.

[broken pike]

I'm sure after a few months when ppl lose interest in the insane grind there will be changes

[pearl mango]

Its either very high als with insane gears who already have 6k scrolls saved to reach high anguish fast

Or ppl who havent even grinded it

[nimble dirge]

It only has a soft cap, you can keep raising anguish level

[languid adder]

and the very rare exceptions

of people actually beeing happy with raw masochism

[pearl mango]

330als combined on all classes this is the very highals example @languid adder

[broken pike]

Show the rest of the guild lvls lol

Raids were easy, yeah

[turbid sedge]

I understand odie and her vision of not having the content rush, but there is clearly a general feeling that players don't feel like they're rewarding for the time they're investing.

[languid adder]

im aware, but thats the only person im aware of that enjoys the limitation and devaluation of previously aqquired progression in regards to ang

[pearl mango]

Yep

Minority opinion≠everyone

[languid adder]

i dont want it to be a breeze, i just dont want this to be a fulltime job for MONTHS until im allowed to be at my deserved power.
It still feels like its designed this way to punish high AL as its assumed anybody who has it most likely abused refineries.

[nimble dawn]

it is not soft caped, it shows that you need to be ascension lvl X to keep going up

[pearl mango]

Thing is high als suffer the least since ppl at that point have perfect gears to keep up with anguish to a point

Where the average player suffer

Since he cant use als to make up for his bad gears

Nor have good gears

[nimble dirge]

The point is it isn't like before only going up to 50

[languid adder]

but they also get the most cheated, as the ssystem is designed to grow with it, only punishing growth that happened before, and pretending its valued.

[fierce cedar]

im kinda the opposite example, low AL but lots of gear

[pearl mango]

250days of playtime

[fierce cedar]

yea but 20 ascensions

lolz

[pearl mango]

🦛 can i see your mats

Im like 99999999% sure you have enough mats to be high als

[fierce cedar]

its not even that much

[nimble dawn]

Anguish right now, green is what I expected, and red is what I feel is, very dramatized, in terms of dificulty spiking
WHich is why I offered the idea of losing AL instead of sudden flooring of AL

But all in all, I like the schackle, it's barely a thing for me, since i am AL 32, it's not a huge drop, but i can imagine how much it sucks for someone who is AL 200, that he needs to farm to Anguish 50 to get most of his AL back

[pearl mango]

60-70als worth of mats

🦛

[nimble dawn]

oh thanks paint for your shitty new transparency

[pearl mango]

Just gotta grind certain mat blocks

[fierce cedar]

good to know

[nimble dirge]

I dislike this idea as it kinda kills the concept of continuing to level anguish

[pearl mango]

How did we go from anguish balance to your als again

[solid tiger]

You are saying that Ang 5 dungeons is hard?

[fierce cedar]

you said high als got the gear to mitigate shackles, and low al players are most affected

[sturdy stump]

you really like to spam this emote huh

[fierce cedar]

but i said something stupid about having gear and low al

[nimble dawn]

I am not really saying it's hard

[languid adder]

dungeons are the easiest content anguish wise
world farming does not exist, it is not real, it cant hurt you

[nimble dawn]

instead, the floor just feels off, like anguish 5 at AL 3 does nothing
anguish 14 for me, who is AL32, will do, nothing!

[pearl mango]

Hippos are the best animal

S tier

[nimble dawn]

it just... feels wierd

[pearl mango]

What i just want is anguish feeling fun by being more rewarding and not pure pain

[nimble dirge]

World farming is a big focus in aethric

[nimble dawn]

if anguish 14 removed 32 AL, then it would make things harder on top of making monster harder

[pearl mango]

Is that alot to ask for

[nimble dawn]

the "you gain stats" part of anguish level with schakle feels wierd

[pearl mango]

Like guys remember this is a GAME not a job i dont want to just suffer

🦛

[nimble dawn]

Happy fun time guild

[nimble dirge]

Well it's an optional thing

[solid tiger]

But someone with 200Al wouldnt get a challenge with 32 ALs less

[fierce cedar]

ascension isnt required for anyone

[nimble dawn]

I don,t do pvp because I hate it

[solid tiger]

When the content is made for al30

[fierce cedar]

i chase gear and have very few ascension, game is fun

(but not gonna tell other people thats the right way to do it!!)

just saying, its not like there's a requirement for ascension

[pearl mango]

Its the rrr way to do it

[nimble dawn]

the content is not really tailored to AL 30 either.

Like right now, with my gear, schakles probably make me stronger then a few people with tons more AL but worse gear

[fierce cedar]

expless has even less ascension and i think he enjoys the game

[pearl mango]

I resort to als since my luck with gear that suits my class for content i enjoy is shid

[nimble dirge]

You're speaking hypothetically

[languid adder]

EXP-Less also wont play more then world anguish 1 until 2035

[fierce cedar]

yep thats exactly what i did, +20% to all my gear means 170 is usable

[nimble dawn]

I am not an AL chasser, i got good gear, just lots of people who are in my guild who are AL100+ look at the new anguish and understandibly feel it's counterintuative

[nimble dirge]

Old anguish was busted

That's pretty much just it

[nimble dawn]

yeah

[naive lynx]

I feel everything with the right gear right now is green EXCEPT towers. Super unpleasant. And eons slower than running just 4 and sweeping t10s. I mean like substationally slower

[solid tiger]

It evens the playing field

[nimble dirge]

Only reason people are complaining so hard is because they're trying to compare it

[nimble dawn]

agreed towers are hell

[pearl mango]

Nope im not comparing i dont enjoy current system

[languid adder]

im complaining cause its not fun. X3

[pearl mango]

🦛

[languid adder]

and its a video game, it SHOULD be fun.

[nimble dawn]

I don't understand the concept of RAISING AL, might as well just disable AL when you do anguish content

[naive lynx]

The mobs need to be tweaked badly. Like dungeons and stuff it's a good slide in. Towers goes from 0-1000%. I shouldn't have to Channealus and hope for temps to clear one horde of mobs with good anguish gear every single battle even though I can

[fierce cedar]

one concern ive heard that haven't seen debated here is, for 75AL+, the timeline for next lvl seems a lot longer

[pearl mango]

Thats what im saying ppl forgetting the main point

This is a game

It should be fun

[languid adder]

Not a full time job

I dont get paid i buy their skins

[nimble dirge]

Yes but anguish is not mandatory in any way

It's purely for challenge

[pearl mango]

This new updated that 99% of ppl dont like is not mandatory just dont play it and enjoy the same loop

[nimble dawn]

If anguish was like "hard core content where you brave a cursed world where ascensions are dusted off you at the doorway" and you had to brave the dificulty with no AL then it would probably be a whole lot easier to balance

[pearl mango]

Is basically what your saying

[nimble dawn]

but my cosmetics and specialisations!

[fierce cedar]

the guild rewards are something i guess

[nimble dirge]

I'm saying that anguish 1.0 was not how it was intended to be

[nimble dawn]

to be fair, I did just that with BoF guikd

[solid tiger]

You can't have content hard for everyone if you don't cap it somehow, that's why shackles are a thing, if you didn't have a cap in power you would have to chose a point where to someone the content is impossible and to a higher also player a walk in the park

[pearl mango]

No one is comparing it to 1.0 right now beside you

[nimble dawn]

Anguish 1 crucible buffs are 100% making gear better than anguish 0

[languid adder]

yeah thats an easy way to kill a game if you demand others to think this way
If people are unhappy, and the devs are listening, it can be made better, and compromises can be made.
As already showed with Anguish 5 now not giving less rewards if you had AL then 4.

[nimble dawn]

BoF does it

[fierce cedar]

rayven is insistently comparing it to ang 1.0, and claiming injury

[nimble dirge]

Yeah but what I'm saying is there is no cap to it

It's always going to get harder and harder

[pearl mango]

Idk who that is

[nimble dirge]

So are you going to complain at the next level?

[nimble dawn]

anyway off to do a bike ride and collect more towers to anguish over

[fierce cedar]

the long blue name

[nimble dirge]

Where is the happy point

[languid adder]

man, i brought ang 1 to level 100 and didnt touch it for over a year, wdym xD

[pearl mango]

***gives new anguish infinite levels *** makes new anguish take months and years to progress through

good update chat

[languid adder]

ok, 97, i finished it to 100 for the badge and migrated.
Ang 1 was unfun, but still a more thought out experience then current ang 2.0

[nimble dirge]

Considering your anguish level right now

And that 25 is equivalent to the old 50

I don't think your comparison is even close lmao

[pearl mango]

Why you keep comparing to 1.0 when you said ppl should stop doing that?

[languid adder]

i am one of the few no-lifers that live in this game, and even i think its way too much asked for.
If even the hardcore community is divided about the time spent, think about the people who play more casually...

[nimble dirge]

I'm saying that there's no happy ground

[pearl mango]

There is

[nimble dirge]

People are saying it's too slow

[pearl mango]

Id rather hit difficulty cap

Than bored cap

[nimble dirge]

There's no cap

[severe junco]

imo the casual crowd doesnt care much about efficiency anyways and just goes up some anguish lvls for fun and not for the profit and prob lvls it slowly without paying much attention to it over a long time

[pearl mango]

Id rather not be able to do the next lvl cuz its hard than not being able to reach it in reasonable time

[solid tiger]

It is bro, having to do 100 dungeons for 1 level when the difficulty is pisseasy is not a challenge just a boring painfully grind

[nimble dirge]

You'll get caught up to the difficulty relatively fast

[languid adder]

to add to this, what i mean is i would rather have kept anguish 1.0 as a system i CAN use but never did then having a rework dangled in my face that is too ambitious and asks for way too much investment AND somehow manages to devaluate parts of my progress without rewarding me for nerfing me.
I am just completely unhappy with what is presented to me, in comparison to what it replaced. If you want to call it damages, then its not about the rewards for me, its about what anguish 2 COULD be, but is not, at all.

[solid tiger]

No?

[pearl mango]

Have you tried ?

[solid tiger]

That's exactly what we are complaining zeir

[nimble dirge]

It hasn't even been out that long

[pearl mango]

I switched to 2.0 cuz 1.0 got boring

I thought itll be fun and new

[solid tiger]

How longer do you need to see a flawed system?

[languid adder]

And then

[pearl mango]

Ang 2.0 was teased last year

[solid tiger]

We can't but mats to ascend or items to upgrade that gear cuz we need it to level up anguish

[pearl mango]

Ang2.0 has been in the making for a year now

[solid tiger]

To reach a point where it really is a challenge

[sinful vapor]

There is a lot of tension between shackles and the AL grind

[fierce cedar]

is there?

[livid sonnet]

can't wait for an Ascencion 2.0 😛 , cap 100, 5% each level boom

[mystic rose]

No problems here with shackles

[pearl mango]

Show playtime

[sinful vapor]

Sure. As you level up anguish you need to sink mats into gear, proofs into tools and ang levels. Those resources could be used to ascend instead

[livid sonnet]

as a casual i don't cara if it takes me 2 years to reach Anguish 25 , i'll get there when i get there 😛

[mystic rose]

Not here to send you pics of my whole character cause I don't agree with your stance

[nimble dirge]

Same

[broken pike]

All these aethric players need to realize their scaling is less than ornas 😂 . Your grind is much easier

[nimble dirge]

I'm in no rush

[languid adder]

i think that is completely reasonable, IF it would not take this long to reach a point where you can focus on both aspects again.

IF you arent growing with the system, but played the game in the 7 years it existed before.

[nimble dirge]

It may sound that way, however there is a hard cap on dungeons and towers

[pearl mango]

20% difficulty scaling easier which is irrelevant to how long it takes to reach X anguish level

[fierce cedar]

sounds like people who already ascended have a head start

[pearl mango]

We still have to do the same amount of raids

Dgs

Everything

[nimble dirge]

In orna there's nothing stopping you from using a Wayvessel

[broken pike]

Few ppl are getting 10 towers a day in orna. There's no WV for towers

[languid adder]

which you cannot use for towers X3

or monuments.

[broken pike]

Your dungeons have shorter times also, no?

[sinful vapor]

A head start to what exactly?

[pearl mango]

Huh?

[solid tiger]

With refineries gone, towers shards way down since anguish difficulty is completely unbalanced, unable to buy mats with anguish since you need them to go up in anguish, how are we gonna progress ALs now? Back to fishing?

[fierce cedar]

this

[sinful vapor]

Please specify

[languid adder]

i think anguish is designed so we invest into reaching our appropriate anguish before we continue ascending, which on paper is fun.
Not in execution, rates are insane.

[broken pike]

What's the cooldown on them. 1 hr or two for horde boss

[pearl mango]

Just applying you are a minority of the minority so youcant rly speak for everyone and i would expect someone like you who played the game for a long time to understand that

[pearl mango]

With 2concs its 1hour for everything

[solid tiger]

Yeah I complete agree brother

[sinful vapor]

ALs are giving me a head start... to the AL grind? That doesn't make sense

[fierce cedar]

to the anguish grind

[nimble dirge]

You get the proofs from normal mobs too

[sinful vapor]

How so

[broken pike]

So a constant rotation on them lol

[nimble dirge]

That doesn't change anything

[fierce cedar]

exactly what you said!

[sinful vapor]

I didn't say ALs gave me a head start

[paper void]

they are just as entitled to an opinion as you are - please don't gatekeep

[mystic rose]

I have never said I speak for everybody. I'm saying my own opinion

[pearl mango]

Ah i c

Mb

[sinful vapor]

The AL grind is separate and competes with the anguish grind. Having some ALs doesn't mean I get to stop gaining ALs

[fierce cedar]

if ascension competes with anguish, and you already have ascensions, then in your case, anguish doesnt compete with ascension

[sinful vapor]

It always competes

[solid tiger]

Well before you used one to grind the other one, now you have to choose between leveling up anguish or ALs

[sinful vapor]

My AL grind isn't "finished"

[fierce cedar]

i feel like we're getting closer to the root of the issue

[sinful vapor]

They are both infinite systems using the same resources

[fierce cedar]

you want to have ang2.0 be a system that provides a way to earn mats for ascension at the appropriate rate for your current ascension grind?

which, if youre high ascension, is a lot of freakin mats?

[sinful vapor]

Ehhh

[fierce cedar]

but you dont want to stop ascension grind to build the anguish mats "engine", at least not from scratch

[sinful vapor]

I don't need anguish rewards to be a specific amount of mats

I don't even need it to be my main source of AL grinding

But I'll always have to make a choice between using resources towards anguish or towards ALs

Therefore, there is tension

And the grind to catch up to my AL is heavy

[fierce cedar]

cool, i understand

[livid sonnet]

Im not aethric

[sinful vapor]

Hard to feel motivated to grind anguish up to my level

And I'm really not that high AL lol. Only 48

[languid adder]

honestly thats what im looking forward to the most
Finally, i can pump those ascensions INTO something

[sinful vapor]

I hope the unshackled rates make the experience better

[languid adder]

i cant wait when anguish is more reasonable, to start investing into it, until its at my AL, and i can do hard content; even if its just super slightly better then without anguish, even if its just 5% more loot in total.

[grave fulcrum]

Uh at anguish 3 getting 11 proofs in reward screen and an additional 1 guaranteed was a bit much tho it seems every lvl is getting 3-6 proofs now I do think that I was a bit outa hand and too profitable

[livid sonnet]

Wish i could move my acc to aethric :v but i already bought every sprite pack :v so...

[fierce cedar]

i see you saying "i want harder game mode" but also "it has to be profitable for me to want it"

[left mauve]

Okay i think i can summarize the issue with ang2.0 :
1 -NF make a grindy af game
2- Grind is rewarded (proof, items, fame, ascend, powercreep)
3- Ang2.0 is released
4- Ang2.0 is the most grindy content of Orna, by far.
5- but it is by far the less rewarding content of the game
6- And it also take away from you most of the grind you did until now (AL , Powercreep)
7- Devs answer : Ang2.0 is optionnal, you dont have to play it if you dont like it (oof)

[solid tiger]

We can agree it was a bit too much, but you could see some progress with each lvl you would get 1 more, now with it halved and the rates rounded down you can go a few levels earning the same amount of proofs, which isn't really fun

[pearl mango]

A bit too much as in taking 4000raids solo to reach ang25? Imo that is reasonable you gotta grind the scrolls then grind the raids with the malusus and hp scale

[fierce cedar]

5, 6, i dont think thats right

[broken pike]

I never said you were?

[pearl mango]

I dont see how ppl see it as OP idk

[paper void]

i don't think 7 is all we've said either

[left mauve]

well you probably didnt play it then x)

[pearl mango]

I enjoyed 2.0 alot so far purely bcz of the agony buff and how reasonable is seemed to grind it

[grave fulcrum]

No the average changes i did the math yesterday it was 6.8 per 10 raids with a guaranteed 10 extra proofs for Ang 3 it was 3.8 per raid with a guaranteed extra 10 proofs to go from 0-6 for a g 1 to 4-11 with ang 3 and imo that was too much because by the time someone gets to anguish 15 or 20 they're gonna be getting 50-80 proofs a raid meaning it will always take x raids to complete the anguish level (cool concept if they cared about time put in but they shouldn't care about time put in but rather profits gained per level.) which makes agony not so agony and more like just a slightly scaling HP raid that gets easier when you have more als. Because you do bigger damage

[pearl mango]

2.0 can be really fun if its reasonable to reach X level but hard to tackle it

Atm its both boring to reach the level to where is it even fun to tackle it after that

[pearl mango]

Not true

[left mauve]

i do enjoy 2.0 because 1.0 was borring af and the new 2.0 allow me to passively farm a little bunch of proof just by doing my daily stuff. But that's me.
cant see a world where i go above ang4 tho.

[pearl mango]

At ang 13 i get max 21proofs

Is the most ive seen

[solid tiger]

That math is way off mate

[languid adder]

disagree with 5 thats deep dungeons

everything else, yes

[solid tiger]

I couldn't agree more

[languid adder]

and ofc 7, we got statements, but none of them were like "nah just dont play it we dont care"

thats also deep dungeons

[left mauve]

naaa, deep dungeon is the most boring stuff ever invented, but it does have reward thanks to eod

[languid adder]

thats the new fishing

[pearl mango]

I rly wanna play 2.0 i like the passives aspect i like the malusus adding a different type of difficulty instead of just stats i just dont like that its boring to reach desired level now

[peak pond]

In my opinion, enabling shackles and having the competition should just be more rewarding.

• Before the update, there was too much incentive to simply play ang4 (no shackles).
• Now there is too much incentive to play max anguish w/o shackles.

[fierce cedar]

i like deep dungeon, but the joypad buttons are too close to the pickax!!!!!!

[grave fulcrum]

Nah I cleared 10 raids each not off but not a large enough data pool to say it's 100% that and I didn't add the guaranteed ones to the ones from reward screen. So to say it's wrong but not back it up with any data yourself is actually wrong instead let's make it constructive for me to Wana conversate after being told I'm wrong

[fierce cedar]

and maybe mobs should auto-engage when they get close enough (zerks farther) /tangent

[left mauve]

indeed that was not said this way, but it was the message none the less. multiple times. i'm just summarizing

[languid adder]

i still think its in a better state where it is right now. Not optimal, but a giant step. Before, anguish 4 for veterans were just a direct punishment, now, its not a reward, but at least not a punishment.
Cause if the situation is you either lose a lot of speed cause of shackles for a minimal reward increase in regards to 4, or you lose the majority of the rewards oyu could have before, without losing any power - youre at a lose-lose

[grave fulcrum]

Which part there's about 3 different things in that topic you could be disagreeing with/calling me a liar on

[solid tiger]

I mean people here reached anguish 15 and weren't getting 80 proofs

[grave fulcrum]

So exaggerating isn't a thing in 2025?

[pearl mango]

This is how much i got on anguish 13raids

[fierce cedar]

i disagree w that summary. it is interesting to consider that maybe ang2.0 is being used as a farming engine since two big ones were just removed, and one of them had the same name "anguish"

i fully dont see this as a farming game mode tho.

[pearl mango]

Sometimes i got 12 sometimes 17sometimes 8

[languid adder]

raids, IMO, do give too much proofs when you look at mat rewards - but in relation to how many you take to level up the guild, they give too less.
Its complicated.

[pearl mango]

Its nowhere close to your numbers

[fierce cedar]

so maybe thats obvious? i missed it

[sinful vapor]

Can't see crap captain

[pearl mango]

Oh fr?

Mb one sec

[grave fulcrum]

So your nitpicking the only thing I exaggerated because I've no real data for anguish 5 and up. I'm sorry I'm not a magical wizard I only know that my min and max for 3 was 4-11

[solid tiger]

Brother you are the one talking about data and then making it up not me

[left mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-senor-ben-chang-small-i-cant-see-gif-4463703

[pearl mango]

Ang13raids

Before nerf

[naive lynx]

Which the last one is false when everyone is getting migrated eventually. So really you have to or else what's left in the game? Pvp? Lol

[pearl mango]

How was i supposed to know you exaggerated i thought you were being serious trying to provide an accurate opinion based on valid data

[grave fulcrum]

I talked about data I specifically tested and then about numbers people haven't actually discussed in any chats with me and if y'all already got to anguish 10+ there's an issue with that either you're not lifing or you've got like 500k scrolls just hanging around

[languid adder]

i just realised what will happen when everybody is forced on anguish 2.0 X.x

[sinful vapor]

I kinda wish lvls 1-4 were smaller. Less costs, less rewards, smaller baseline to start with. Then at anguish 5+, shackles kick in and amp up the rewards and difficulty

[languid adder]

Also, the fact they can still grind in 1.0, without any intervention, is completely nuts to me.

[left mauve]

do tower bruh !
Or fish. fishing is great 👌

[naive lynx]

Just got towers to Ang5. That's where it will stay until the stats are fixed lol. It's just not enjoyable

[languid adder]

if you nerf rewards even more, then oh god will the time to reach anything over 4 increase drastically

[sinful vapor]

I said lower the costs of 1-4 too

More incentive to play shackled

[left mauve]

oh also, can we have new monsters in towers pleaaase ? 2 years farming the same packs is sad 😦

[nimble dirge]

this isn't really the place for that question lmao

[pearl mango]

You want them to put raids in towrr

Lmao

🦛

[left mauve]

oh yeah, good ol'days

[solid tiger]

Hey that would be kinda cool

[nimble dirge]

there was a raid in the tower

it got removed 😛

[languid adder]

i mean i get what you mean but any slower and ill just destroy the anguish circle xD

[pearl mango]

Random raids based on active event in towers would be cool

[sinful vapor]

1% Raid chance malus when

[nimble dirge]

people didn't like it because it made the towers a lot slower

it was at the midway point

[sinful vapor]

Make towers slower again

[languid adder]

reminds me we once had a raid at the halfway marks in towers... Was really fun, why didnt people like it again?

[pearl mango]

Waaa waaaa i cant do towers in 8mins waaaa waaa

[languid adder]

ah, just buff rewards accordingly
I like the concept

and the execution was also fun

[nimble dirge]

hey I'm just going by what the majority voted on

they wanted it gone lmao

[languid adder]

just wish it wasnt a morrigan sister but actually a fun raid, maybe themed to the titan

but im drifting apart

[pearl mango]

Raids in tower based on current active event

Fr fr

[sinful vapor]

I want to go on a real quest or dungeon in Orna. Like an activity that is actually long, that I can play over the course of days

[solid tiger]

Archpaths

[sinful vapor]

A weekly quest

[left mauve]

||wo wo wo guys, lets get back to ang2.0, we dint want odie to bring back some useless T7 raid in the middle of towers, so shush! ||
So, Ang2.0, so bad eh!?

[pearl mango]

You messed it up

Its not funny anymore

[naive lynx]

Go to torment 5. It's slow enough

[solid tiger]

Not bad just painfully slow

[sinful vapor]

Yeah but I mean. Kinda tower/dungeon style, with persistent hp/buffs or something

Horde endless tower

[pearl mango]

Is anguish 2.0 so helpless we switched the topic?

Thats inssane

[languid adder]

less speed is fine if rewards are adjusted accordingly - can we all agree on that, if we need twice as much time for towers, the rewards should also be twice as much in total?

[sinful vapor]

Just dreaming sorry

[pearl mango]

Ofc

Whats the point then

If i take double time but dont get double rewards efficiency beats big numbers

[languid adder]

the point is that, most of us are unhappy with the rewards, the shackles, and progression speed, I just wanna be constructive and narrow down what the biggest issues are.

[pearl mango]

Ang0towers go brr

[languid adder]

I see:

• Majority of veterans who grinded AL feel cheated
• Rewards do not adjust for the slowdown and therefore decrease in total the more you progress

[fierce cedar]

nah

[languid adder]

• Leveling up through the levels is too ambitious

corrent me if im wrong, its just what i picked up from living here for a week

[fierce cedar]

its your pov

[pearl mango]

Just fix this and we'll be happy for another month or 2

Then we complain about rewards

Let us progress smoothly first pls

🦛

[fierce cedar]

lol

[languid adder]

yeahi agree

i would care so much about the bad state of shackles if im not forced into them for what feels like a decade

or ppl like Geppu actually beeing forced into them for a decade

[fierce cedar]

forced

[pearl mango]

You go shackles or you get 100% less rewards

Is what he means by forced

[sinful vapor]

Wait, Odie's not at your house with a gun pointed to your head?

Why is he at mine

[left mauve]

ah, here it come ?

[fierce cedar]

here what comes?

#7?

im not a dev

[pearl mango]

Rrr

Send an emoji

If youre being held hostage

[fierce cedar]

🦆

[pearl mango]

Yep odie got em

[languid adder]

[pearl mango]

🦛

[languid adder]

"Oodie Phil" joins the chat

[fierce cedar]

now I think you guys are trying to fill the anguish 1.0 mats-for-ascenion gap with anguish 2.0

[pearl mango]

I just wanna have fun for godssake

[naive lynx]

Not just him it's a bunch of people, you're just on the opposite

[languid adder]

Odie if you got him post using HoC on his account and making him ascend T1 warrior

[pearl mango]

Stop comparing with 1.0

I just wanna have fun

Me have fun = me happy

Me happy = me no complain

If i wanted to i couldve stayed 1.0 but 1.0 was boring i switched cuz 2.0 i thought will be more fun

[left mauve]

and it is tbh

[pearl mango]

I agree

Its more fun but could be EVEN MORE FUN

yk what im saying?

[fierce cedar]

this is fun imo. also scary

[solid tiger]

But after 100 dungeon runs of the same difficulty it gets repetitive and boring

[languid adder]

its so alpha state its hard to enjoy, but the concept is the most fun thing we got in orna after 1 Turn PvP fights

[pearl mango]

Fun =

[languid adder]

literally orna

[fierce cedar]

nice

[languid adder]

"Gilgamesh is dead" XD

[naive lynx]

It's definitely more fun just need balancing. Towers are not fun, dungeons and raids etc are but I do think the cost of level up should be reduced slightly or ALs up from 3 a level to maybe 5-6 available

[left mauve]

same for Ang1.0, and we didnt have per-content anguish nir anguished items

[paper void]

Do keep in mind that players that are enjoying the content aren’t seeking this thread to complain. You’re going to have a very skewed view here

[sinful vapor]

I think 2.0 is fun

[languid adder]

Not from the boring aspect tho,just that it gets repetitive

[languid adder]

Very good point.

Thank you!

[sinful vapor]

There are boring/tough aspects

Good system overall

[pearl mango]

I think this new anguish is very fun but could be more rewarding and less boring to progress through and everyone would be happy

[sinful vapor]

The path choices are very cool

[languid adder]

do you count progression curve to that or do you seclude it?

oh i read not, MB

[pearl mango]

Shhhhh

[sinful vapor]

I think the content itself is fun. Anguished gear is cool, maluses are neat

Anguished raids are very cool

[languid adder]

enjoy the buffs you will get cause gilgas pretend Spiked Shield is the only spell that does over 0 damage

[sinful vapor]

The execution, progression, etc needs some work is all

[naive lynx]

Good system just needs tweaks imo. Great pathing choices, just shackles/proof requirements need a bit of a tune and imo towers a little less stats on anguish level up. Oh and let us use any anguish proof to buy shop items ♥️. Especially if we wanna farm certain things as some don't like towers vs dungeons etc

[pearl mango]

It is tho lol

Me gilga me ss3

Its kinda simple

[solid tiger]

Can we get your thoughts on the current 2.0 odie?

[languid adder]

i cant see a world where the system of stuff beeing divided into the 4 proofs at random will persist, so wait until Odie casts Natura Eventualus II on it :3

[pearl mango]

Yes i like this update so far just needs tweaking

[left mauve]

thing is : orna is so grindy it became a second job. So having a fun but not rewarding content is not what we expect.
this fact already exist in the game prior to 2.0 :

• PvP is fun for a lot of people
• tower is boring for a lot of people
• but people will still spend 90% of their playtime doing towers, because if fun bring nothing, lets just do the not fun content to get stuff (cause getting stuff is the whole point of the game afterall)

Ang2.0 is the apex of this. Fun, but not rewarding > i'll prior playing ang4 then

[pearl mango]

Ang 3.0 in 2028

Als are removed

You cant use spells

[fierce cedar]

AL cap is 10

dungeons are 10 lvls only

[pearl mango]

Gear above t3 is banned

Lol

[fierce cedar]

only snow biome til april

[naive lynx]

No ALs, your power comes from anguish gear. All stats adjusted accordingly

[fierce cedar]

dark mode is cancelled

[pearl mango]

You have to kill a 1bil hp raid every week with a t8character or your account gets banned

[left mauve]

ah dang, we lost them again

[languid adder]

the moment ascensions got introduced, the shape of the game was determined. It was a willing decision, and, frankly, its the one we veterans agreed to, else, we wouldve left years ago.
I would love if all the grind was reduced slightly. Not made free, but god dammit, making it unbearable for any casual (looking at you, anguish 2.0) isnt the play either X3

[pearl mango]

Phew odie left my house

[languid adder]

basically WoW guilds expectations when you try to raid normal

[pearl mango]

Oh god please no

[fierce cedar]

hey for real,

I really really want to use the stats screen to adjust equip, spells, for this new mode, which has me swapping gear and stuff again all the time

it would be so QoL if i can go from pvp tab in stats, to pvp equipment tab, then back to pvp tab in stats & it refreshes

[pearl mango]

Not that game

[pearl mango]

I didnt understand a single thing

But do it

[sinful vapor]

In anguish 3.0, enemies have your ALs

[pearl mango]

Ban him

Please

[solid tiger]

For raids, shouldn't proof of agony rate be changed from a % that we don't really know the math for to something like min-max proofs per raid?

[paper void]

I will start work immediately

[pearl mango]

🦛

[pearl mango]

Oh god no

[languid adder]

now im thinking about a dungeon concept where your ALs are divided randomly between enemys and you have to gain them.
Or just... an endless form of content where enemys drop permanent buffs (at least inside of the activity, until the run ends)

Roguelite Orna?

[pearl mango]

Bro stop

Why yall giving him ideas to make it more hardcore

This isnt what the deal was

🦛

[sinful vapor]

More ALs = longer roguelite

[fierce cedar]

have you seen #💡│suggestions ? hardcore suggestions is every day

[left mauve]

oh well, we're definitly out of subject. Time to go sleep 👋 .

[pearl mango]

Difference is

Odie is reading this as we speak

[languid adder]

i would love a cursed endless.

[pearl mango]

🦛

[languid adder]

[pearl mango]

Yea it seems we yapped so much we forgot we even mad

Second i open the game and try to do raids illprob come back here though

Complain about proofs again

Yall have a good one

[sinful vapor]

Odie. What are your thoughts on lowering the entry cost into the system by making ang 1-4 smaller steps? Decrease difficulty/rewards and decrease the costs to progress each level, make these serve as more introductory levels, and amp up shackled rewards appropriately at 5+? That way the baseline is lower, unshackled is overall lower rewards, but shackled is further incentivized

[pearl mango]

Too much work just revert the latest change to proofs and we happy

[languid adder]

beta rates for 7 days

[finite flint]

No sense kn doing towers over a4

[finite flint]

Towers same as before lol (and mnemonics got buffed)

Towers same as before lol (and mnemonics got buffed)

[solid tiger]

I don't think you are running Ang towers as high as in 1.0 so less tower shards for sure it's what I mean

[finite flint]

i am getting 110-120k per 4 50f towers

very close to what i did before, more proofs though

i was only doing anguish 15 before though for speed (and gs issues)

[solid tiger]

You are probably killing more mobs than before, u can't be getting more shards/min with lower anguish, and the proofs I don't think you are investing then into mats anyway

[finite flint]

i am not investing into mats right now because odie might still change things so i keep them around waiting to see if it's worth it to invest into more torment levels

but if it's not when the nerfs/buffs settle in a2.0 then i can buy mats (if i still feel like farming AL, which isn't obvious given it's not particularly profitable to do that now)

i am al 185, 1-4-4-4 in anguish 2.0

raid and tower gear it's ang 4 with good passive already

[solid tiger]

My point is that with this new patch AL grind has taken a big hit that's all

[finite flint]

my point is it hasn't

al grind is about tower end of floor mats, and shards to unblock

shards are similar, unless you were deity doing ang 25+

mnemonics got buffed btw

+15% is huge

[solid tiger]

So before we had refineries which was by far the best source, more tower shards = more mats from that guild and every single proof of anguish going into mats too, now we have 10 refineries, lower tower shards and all our anguish proofs going into leveling it up, if you think with all this the AL grind hasn't taken a hit idk what to tell you buddy

[finite flint]

oh refinery nerf happened yes

but tbh that had to happen years ago

i am talking real gameplay

and you don't "have" to put proofs into leveling up, over 4 it's not worth it, if you are going for efficiency stay at 4 and farm al

if you go 5+ for fun, have fun, but that's not AL being harder to farm

[tacit ridge]

So, was the agony rate change intended or is it bugged?

[finite flint]

appears intended but odie didn't officially clarify if current numbers are exactly intended

[tacit ridge]

Nerfing the part of the system most people were satisfied with would be a weird choice 😅

[finite flint]

but he wanted to nerf it

[solid tiger]

Well I'm a pretty new player playing since October at AL 50, the gap between me and the ppl around me at 100ALs has widened a bit with this past update, I don't see myself catching up to them anytime soon

[finite flint]

do towers

[languid adder]

But also something that felt like it was coming, weirdly?

[tacit ridge]

How has it widened? Before they could run high anguish towers to continually outpace, now they need to run content shackled, same as you, so they lost that advantage

[languid adder]

I feel like once the rates are reasonable they are too high, thats the vibes im getting

[solid tiger]

Cuz what people achieved with years of refineries I have to compensate with active gameplay? I don't think it's that hard to see lol

[tacit ridge]

No idea why though. Sure, people could get a lot of proofs quickly, but they’ll also very quickly deplete their scroll stocks. Raids aren’t infinite

[pearl mango]

Agony was the only reasonable one

[languid adder]

Exactly! I feel the goal is to be under the mark ppl wish for that speak up in here, thats how my gut tells me.

[tacit ridge]

You’re now, worse case scenario, going at the same speed for every piece of content. If you grind more, you’re guaranteed to catch up. That wasn’t the case before because they could run more optimal content

[solid tiger]

Yeah but going from 50 to 100 is harder than before

[tacit ridge]

If you think you were catching up to the refinery abusers by doing the same thing as them you’re sorely mistaken, people had them in the hundreds

[tacit ridge]

Going from any level to the next is much harder now

The playing field is as even as it has ever been though

[solid tiger]

And now with ALs being a hard cap for anguish level at some point he is getting more rewards too

[tacit ridge]

It’s too slow for everyone currently imo, but there’s no imbalance

[solid tiger]

I mean going from refineries to no refineries

[pearl mango]

Refineries are long gone and ppl still fantasizing about their long gone gains

Lol

[finite flint]

hm

[finite flint]

no it isn't? at least not if you include pre-optimized-guild content in the before

[pearl mango]

Tell that to odie

🦛

I feel lile

This all was odies plan

Make 2.0 seem too good or reasonable

Get a good batch of ppl to switch from 1.0

Nerf it

🦛well done odie it was all calculated

[solid tiger]

15% more mnemonic rewards doesn't make up years of refineries lmao

[pearl mango]

Dont the guild rewards give those coins thingy

They give 100% more rewards for 48hours

[solid tiger]

Yee those are great, hope you could get more somehow

[glass mango]

Noone in their right mind uses those, they are for hoarding

[pearl mango]

Theres the ones at lvl 100guild lvl

And the normal coins

If we stack those 2 we could prob get 350mats from each mnemonic

[solid tiger]

I mean like eod rewards or something

[pearl mango]

Oh

[glass mango]

All non renewable resources go into storage for safe keeping

[pearl mango]

They would be great as a famed eod reward

[pearl mango]

Why

[solid tiger]

We gotta wait for the perfect opportunity to use them

[pearl mango]

We get multiple of them

Just get great oracle full amity set wait for event and pop those

[glass mango]

Cuz they are rare and limited, you have to hoard it

[solid tiger]

Nono, there will be a better time to use them

[glass mango]

Using limited consumables in an rpg is a crime

[pearl mango]

I saw someone getting this much

Using them

[solid tiger]

Apolly + event

[pearl mango]

We get multiple

So its safe

[pearl mango]

Hahaha your funny

[glass mango]

Its still very limited though, and rare

[pearl mango]

Odie wont release appoly until 3 more years

[solid tiger]

Optimal setup bro

Hahaha

[pearl mango]

Lol

[solid tiger]

Then we wait

[raven bane]

Tbh I've heard people say anguish 2 needs to be less than 1 but really not the case, think it should be at least slightly more lucrative.

[pearl mango]

364mats each mnemonic tho is juicy asf

48hours too

If you farm a good amount you can get huge gains in that time

🦛

[nocturne night]

Anguish 1 was too lucrative, as per the studio's opinion. I don't disagree.
The effort to reward was way skewed

[raven bane]

Agreed as to the 2nd point, but there are still low effort high rewards activities, and new anguish is high effort so warrants higher reward

[nocturne night]

Also fwiw, ~nothing is going to make up for years of refineries.
In fact, nothing is ever going to make you catch up to older players, ever, unless they stop playing.

Whatever method you gain access to, they also have - plus the stockpiled materials/ascensions from previously.
Looking at systems like refineries and keeping them around so that others can "catch up" is a logical fallacy that should not stand in the way of balancing things.

[nocturne night]

I agree that the effort to reward might not be great in the long run, but that's something that can be fixed, if it is desired to be fixed.
The one thing that definitely cannot happen is having that happen too soon. If something slips up we end up in a scenario where anguish1.0's mistakes might be repeated.
First, we can make sure the difficulty is landing correctly. Once that is settled, then the rewards can be tinkered without surprise exploitation for massive gains

[raven bane]

Yeah I largely agree, I just see a lot of people taking the sentiment that "1.0 was too rewarding for the effort" and drawing the conclusion that 2.0 should be less rewarding. I think its okay if its not more lucrative right away, but by the time people are hitting 25-30 Ang level, should definitely be more rewarding than 1.0, if not sooner.

[languid adder]

I agree fully, tho, the real logical fallacy was the lack of action for 4 consecutive years.
I hope wholeheartedly that never happens aga- oh wait you can still play ang 1.0 with full rewards

I love that its said that its cared about fairness and balance, but the actions taken towards are contradicting :(

[languid adder]

Tho here it is monitored, and not abandoned. Thats a HUGE difference.

[nocturne night]

Ang1.0 with full rewards is an issue in my eyes, but it's not the worst offender.
It's better for rewards than 2.0, undoubtedly, but it's not refinety levels of ridiculous - and it comes with a downside: Not Levelling 2.0

When ang1.0 finally gets phased out, all of the ang1.0 parkers will still be level 1 in all paths, whereas the early adopters will have progressed through the paths already

[old aspen]

The downside I see. Is that the anguish 2.0 will slowly respect ALs more and more while live. So 1.0 players are getting ahead while some ethereal end date floats in the future

[languid adder]

With looking at how anguish fares rn, and the very slow take on adjusting it, i dunno about any of this. I just see a shittsunami with a brown tornado coming ^^"

[short osprey]

I'm just waiting for more people to get up to Torment 7/8 and can see where I'm coming from when I say that AL17 shackles makes this near impossible/so slow to point where I'd make more proofs/min at Torment 1 lol

[naive lynx]

I made it to 5 and can say it even slows down tremendously there. Towers right now don't justify the time put in for the reward payout vs lower levels. Dungeons feel comfy and raids feel comfy even with shackles. Towers need some fixins

[short osprey]

I'm sorry but an AL17 is not surviving this no matter what
(This was floor 23 btw...)

[languid adder]

I tested it on beta. Its fun... if you only play for the gameplay and dont value rewards at all.
Cause the lesser clear speed is not reflected in the rewards in the slightest

[short osprey]

like I could technically sit here and use full defensive gear, WoO, golems, mimics, etc... every single fight and win... But why? No one is ever going to/enjoy doing that

[pearl mango]

Lol

[languid adder]

I would, totally. Towers get boring the moment you just oneshot, cause then its not a fight anymore, i have monuments for that.

I cant say i enjoy towers since the 2H rework where i can now just swansong everything turn 1 or murder it with natura/storma eventualus

[pearl mango]

Thing is

Hes anguish like what 7-8?

[languid adder]

Towers beeing difficult and long fights is what i was looking for for ang the most

[pearl mango]

Enemy stats increase by 20%

Each lvl

[languid adder]

Rewards just need big adjustments

[pearl mango]

And i get 3als each lvl

Are those 3als enough to make up for the 20% stats enemys are getting

Alongside malusus

[languid adder]

Not a problem.
We have foresight gear, and out tower gear usually is built as glass cannon.
Can easily be builded around!^^

[pearl mango]

Ang20nidhog with 1mil hp

[languid adder]

I get your concern, but still, i want towers to be actual fights, so looking forward to it

[pearl mango]

Have fun with that

🦛

[languid adder]

Sadly not a beo, nidhogg is therefore one of the only reliable dangers in towers

[pearl mango]

Theres a fine line between a fun fight and a unnecessarly long fight

[languid adder]

We do like amorri, dont we? :o

[pearl mango]

Morri = 37cort and good gear

[languid adder]

I know full buffing can get dull fast. Thats why dungeons > towers ALWAYS.

[pearl mango]

Nidhog in towrr= useless

Idk if hp scaling in towers is a gud idea tbh

[languid adder]

If i get out of the tower with 60k shards and 500 tokens if i go beat up those 1 mil nidhoggs, i may be incentivsed to try

[pearl mango]

Shards sure

500proofs

Youre dreaming

[languid adder]

At ang 20, with adjusted rates
Not the current ones

Tower rates once shackles set in are ass, shackled or undshackled

Shard bonus should be improved drastically once shackled sets in.

And shackles should slightly increase reward for every AL taken, or reduce level up costs. Which is really hard to abuse as a system.

[pearl mango]

Well yeah maybeee

But shackles in tower

Dont seem like a gud idea

No matter what

Like im pretty sure without perfect gear at some point and multiple builds

Its impossible

[languid adder]

Shackles don't seem like a good idea, period
Don't reflect the representation in the announcement on reddit at all, where it was said that unshackled should give about the same rewards in regards to time invested - rewards gained.

[pearl mango]

Odie said ang25=old50

So by that it means

Were hitting ang50towers with 50als

[languid adder]

With dex scaling replaced by HP, i more realistically see it at 12-14, if even that high. Probably what, 10?

[pearl mango]

Which seems pretty impossible

[languid adder]

Cause now they fight back

[pearl mango]

Yep

Our dmg wont scale as high as their hp

[languid adder]

HP scaling is MUCH more dangerous and challenging then dex.

[pearl mango]

Anyone tried ang50towers yet

In beta

I just wanna see their hp

[languid adder]

I tried old anguish 50 towers in full def gear.
If you do that, i will give you a medal.

[bleak mural]

Seems like agony proof chance drop was cut right?
I was killing 10 hippo at ang10 shackle on and only see 6-10 proof per raid 😭

[languid adder]

Because there is a 0% chance you will beat an anguish 1 lv50 50 floor tower

So there is a -50% chance you will do that in anguish 2.0

[glass mango]

Making gilga good at something xD

[pearl mango]

Lmao

Im at ang13

Im seeing 5/4/6

For many raids

Average is way lower for me now

[languid adder]

Gilga issues aren't cause of the class

[bleak mural]

Great 🥲 now it destroy the desire to level up

[short osprey]

Exactly! For example, random zerks in towers are actually pretty cool! You never know where they will pop up, adds some depth/makes you think twice about your first move as in should I focus this 1 mob? Should play it safe? etc... But even with my full 108ALs at a high floor that a zerk is something I'm still gonna have to think twice about, now put me in that situation at AL17... Yeah that's just kind of borderline impossible/unreasonable

[pearl mango]

Just have perfect tank gear and use c.... Oh wait it got nerfed

🦛

[glass mango]

The real answer is reroll till you get a good roll on zerks

[pearl mango]

Zerk nidhog..

Leave tower

Go back

[opaque trellis]

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the new system it's pretty fun

[full peak]

None of them are locked? They change every day. Nobody force you to farm world.

[opaque trellis]

Really? Every time I've checked demon tools have been selling for despair

[full peak]

Yes, really.

[opaque trellis]

Alright well I retract my criticism guess I've just been getting unlucky

[languid adder]

I killed 40 raids after the patch.

From 7 to 4, unshackled raid is reduced by about 40% by me, from an average 9 to an average 5-6.

That does not reflect the numbers written in the anguish guild.
But also, the number of proof drops in raids is not reflected accurately at all, while it should be something like 600% now instead of 900%.

There seems to be an error in the math, else the number presented is not real.

[bronze plinth]

Idk i have no issues

[sinful vapor]

It really is extremely annoying to have tools be stuck on despair cost for 3 days in a row lol

[atomic ermine]

I've done some monuments this morning and ngl the experience feels rather poor.
Barely any T10 mobs that can drop anguish proofs, even less event mobs for monumental proofs (even if it's not an anguish issue, it's still feedback I guess).
Overall, it feels like a glorified horde world farm for low level materials.

[nocturne night]

On the other hand, I've been grinding monuments not for proofs but for exp, because the allegiance rewards are hella exciting

[languid adder]

Same! Monuments is one of the few allegiance rewards that are reasonably spaced if you ignore the lv 125 one

[nocturne night]

The lack of t10 monsters is a real complaint for lack of proofs.
However, it's the same path as the towers one, which is very reasonable with its proof rate

[languid adder]

What is it? 100, 150 hours of active monument grinding? Seems reasonable.

[languid adder]

I would say torment in general is the second worst. I did 10 50 and didnt die once, and i still dont have enough to level up from 4 to 5.

[nocturne night]

Getting to level 65, which is potentially the spiciest reward (big consumable aside) is approximately 125 full monument clears iirc
If you take about 10 minutes to full clear a monument, that's just like 21 hours which is pretty neat

[languid adder]

For me its like 15 but also servers arent on my favor even with clean inventory, but that is most likely my phone's fault
So yeah, monument allegiance is a good baseline.
Maybe one day spelunker, finesse and towerfelled follow the path.

[nocturne night]

It's obviously better than world and clearly worse than dungeons. That's usually how it goes.
But towers have the cool benefit of being worth running anyway - whereas dungeons/world aren't nearly as useful by themselves. In that way, anguish is an added bonus on top of the tower's natural bountiful rewards, rather than the full motivation.

[atomic ermine]

I'd say monuments are worthless when towers are too rewarding

just put them both on a middleground

[languid adder]

Once people realise how much anguish will reduce the already extremely slow towerfelled progression, they will hopefully be vocal about it regardless.

[nocturne night]

Heavy disagree - monuments are a very easy early game activity, and towers are a very hard late game activity. Their rewards shouldn't be nearly close to eachother

[atomic ermine]

so just let monuments being useless ?

[languid adder]

Every fight giving 1 EXP while monuments saw an adjustment to that quickly, i still dont get.
Now that the meta will shift from oneshotting everything in there, its an eventuality until it gets addressed, which is a great perspective

[nocturne night]

For anguish? Yeah.
Outside anguish they still provide proofs of monument and its own whole allegiance tree.

[languid adder]

And the shrines, which now with anguish are useful again!

[nocturne night]

Unless you're summoner

[languid adder]

That's a choice tho

[atomic ermine]

still looking for those monument proofs, have ran 5 dungeons and overall it's not even 1 event fight per 3 floors

[nocturne night]

I know

[languid adder]

Thats like playing smash bros onehanded and then complaining others have an unfair advantage

[nocturne night]

That's dependant on events. There's currently like 6 event monsters on the pool

[languid adder]

I would say cause avalon event spawns in monuments are kept extremely low, usually its not nearly this bad

[atomic ermine]

that shouldn't depend on event, density should be the same across the year

[nocturne night]

I also disagree with that. I like the variety that it provides. Makes you run different content during different parts of the year

Just like some events incentivise normals, and others bosses, or some beast dens and others world farming - some incentivise monuments, and others don't

[languid adder]

Monumental guild is the event guild... i do think an overall somewhat reasonable rate towards all events should be there.

The game has become much too seasonal, and it feels like roulette sometimes. Wish it was a tiny bit more... whats the right word, balanced out?

As a german, if you look deep enough you find a problem with anything. Tho that's okay, im fine with disagreeing with things, and often times i also understand - i also understand that you prefer the more seasonal approach, and the mixups.
I want to see monuments as a reliable source cut out from the heresy that is event scedule

I got sidetracked again DX
I mean technically its related to anguish...

[full peak]

I run monuments only during sweet events. 🤷‍♂️

[atomic ermine]

Monuments should be outside of this as it was created as an alternative access to events. IMO there should 1 dedicated play area for the event which gives the best reward ratio, and then monuments that operate at a lower level of rewards than the activity dedicated to the event but provides an alternative.

[languid adder]

Which event (combination) was that :o

[full peak]

rift & beastfelled iirc

if there are at least 2 encounters per floor, im willing to run them

otherwise no-no

[atomic ermine]

that's literally what we're saying, we shouldn't have to wait for 1 particular event to engage in monument content and then it's useless rest of the year

[languid adder]

So basically, reject current monuments, embrace the design?

Maybe we should make a monuments thread?

Im currently working on my list of general concerns so i hope i can post that in a few weeks too.

[full peak]

I assume I can make tl;dr even now:

REVAMP THE GAME FROM THE BASE

probably in bigger caps

[languid adder]

Not really, just basically super minor things that summed up over the years, and small pain points like "why did monument exp get buffed to 1 per kill, while they are basically bootleg towers, but towers stayed at 1 per fight"

Its minor things from misleading wordings to "why is this guild making me want to commit seppuku when i look at the time investment towards allegiance in regards to other guilds"