The Plight of Apollyon 2025 Discussion Thread

[spring hearth]

no i think you misunderstood

[winter sage]

^ Which is really saying something when this was my performance.

At that point, I think I'm better off just hunting world bosses, lmao

I’m not going to post every screenshot I took of him spamming Refract, because we’re all ale familiar with that. But I will say one thing from a “game design” perspective:

In the time that elapsed in this screenshot, I watched another player do nearly 2mil to him.

[winter sage]

That's relevant, because it makes me feel powerless.

We can see the other players fighting at the same time we are. It doesn't feel good to be stymied like that, being able to do nothing, while we get to watch other players going ham on him with zero issue.

From a "game theory" perspective, it's not encouraging to the player, really

It doesn't feel fair

[spring hearth]

we is you &

[winter sage]

Me and the other three players in the fight at that time. Everyone can see everyone else in the fight at the same time as them (up to a limit, maybe?)

I've actually heard people request a way to turn that off, but afaik there isn't one

[spring hearth]

sure there is, put yourself in private mode

[winter sage]

The bottom line here is that the event does not feel fun, and no less importantly it doesn't feel rewarding. It feels like a big expenditure of time and effort for basically no realistic gain.

And I hear the devs saying that the whole event has been reworked since last year, and I didn't play last year so I have no direct comparison. But everything I heard described last year still holds 100% true of my experiences this year, so as far as I can tell there has been no meaningful change.

(And no, I do not expect the devs to respond to this over the weekend. It's a game. It's not even close to life-and-death, lol. The devs should enjoy their weekend. It can wait.)

[spring hearth]

i think what i see you saying is you dont want to change the way you play for this event

[winter sage]

No, I literally made a whole new build for this event

[fluid light]

Ive seen this too, i think it was brye
Not sure how he does it but this should be fixed heheh (after the weekend obviously)

[winter sage]

I usually use a defensive tank build, but this time I went full glass cannon

Hybrid amity, two lutes, basically no Ward to speak of at all

I still ideally want to take a few turns at the beginning to buff, which Odie has explicitly said should be possible this year

But it's not

Besides, as I said, it wasn't just me. 60% of my instance was struggling to break 5-digit damage on any raid

Which, now that I think of it, is an important point of consideration:

If the two players insta-capping had been the only players in the instance, they'd have been screwed. The damage limit on t10 instances is 40%, so between them they'd have been doing 80% and then having to wait 15 minutes.

Those two players needed us 3-4 plebs to be able to turn over the raids, and yet all of us were competing for their scraps.

That doesn't seem like ideal design

[spring hearth]

do you have a pet class?

[amber lava]

"Do you have an Arisen Spiritgarm"

[spring hearth]

re: this, & my post up above, the point would be to set it so players can start raids but not finish them. other players will rotate into the instance & finish them, + spawn more.

&&&& its just an idea, based on how Im using mnemonics to jump between instances and play for 10-15m at a time

[spring hearth]

mightiest mimic is currently still in pet shops right?

that little bastard works too

there's also a bug w/ collat dmg. gl hf

[opaque sage]

For better or worse, the reflect spam has been a point of feedback for as long as beguiled polly has existed. I'd personally like to see logic that stops it from being used multiple times in a row, it seems unlikely at this point though

[spring hearth]

apparently chromomancer is a hard counter as well

birb works too. at 250/19al

but still works

[old lava]

Gwygli or whatever with bb1 and 15% more damage amity

[keen thunder]

No, but yes i also do that as a hydrus

2x amity + gwyllgi's bb1, should definitely be fixed asap

Its been reported months and months ago, although the bug has existed for years

[frosty narwhal]

Best way to solve this was how it was last year. Just up the spawn rate a ton. There was a nice competitive edge to clicking into a raid spawn and being the only one on it giving you time to buff up and get hits in. If you were late and got no damage then no biggie there were more raids up all the time. Making Y so scarce with the crawl of an over all spawn rate is confusing. -joking- but it feels like the anguish 2.0 mentality has spilled over into what is supposed to be a fun group raiding experience. Save the scarcity for super raids which at least have a deterministic outcome and allow players to properly grind, target, and 100% raid for max drops

[winter sage]

Okay, I'm back from amity hunting.

I feel like there are two sides to this aspect of the conversation.

• On the one hand, it's okay and maybe even ideal that certain content favors certain classes over others. It's not expected or necessarily even preferred that all classes perform exactly the same at all content.
• On the other hand, any such "class favor" should ideally be by intentional design, not simply by happenstance. Without deliberate design, it's only to be expected that the balance would probably not line up well.
  • This is especially true if that "class favor" is more pronounced toward a particular celestial variant of a particular class, since celestial classes are not something someone can just buy on a whim.
• I have not heard the devs say that this event was designed specifically to favor Beo (esp. BeoA). If it wasn't designed for that, but just happens to favor that on account of an oversight or something, that's not ideal.
  • This point is even more important now that a lot of the gear has bonuses specific to Heretic. It's a bit of a weird incentive for the best way to farm Heretic gear to be a Beo celestial class.

[spring hearth]

try chronomancer

also works for Balin (is that his name? the avalon raid)

[tawdry moss]

Can i please have at least 1 ornate? Did 100 raids today no ornate

[rich scarab]

I ended up rambling while not realizing there is very specifically a thread for exactly that regarding this event. #🏆│triumph-and-tragedy message and down.

[deep oriole]

I feel like just make it: kill 5 Xs and a Y spawns

Keeps you engaged and not random

Next year, kill 5 Ys and a Z spawns

[spring hearth]

or maybe alongside Termagant and Baphomet

or just polly x & y, there'll be new players...

[rich scarab]

You could have rank-locked balor memories... not sure how well that'd work out though.

Like using one at t8~9 takes you to that bracket, t10~11 get their own.

And using one before access to raids could still give you the area, with the mobs.

[spring hearth]

i think if t8-9 guys were given access to raid buffet they would instantly lvl up undergeared. just guessing tho

[rich scarab]

Oh, can they not do balor memories? Hmm...

Lower spawns in that bracket? Smaller exp gain? Different, less lucrative raids? Those would all feel bad in some way, though.

[winter sage]

So, you can get Balor Memories as early as t5. You aren’t allowed to do anything with them until t10 tho.

I don’t know why that choice was made

I had literally hundreds sitting in my Keep from last year

[rich scarab]

It's nice to be able to build them up/Forfeit them earlier on. Sucks when you get excluded from events

[kindred depot]

I have to say as a relatively fresh t10 realmy this event sucks. Not only do I have to compete with people 100 levels stronger than me for raid rewards, but I can't even attack the bosses most of the time since they just spam their counter-attack move. Not fun.

[silk remnant]

If it helps any, it's no fun when you're 100 levels stronger either. 95% of the event is being stuck in an instance waiting for the next spawn.

[kindred depot]

Fancy seeing you here! Yeah ik that's bad too, but at least the stronger guys are getting SOME rolls on appolyon Y, for me it's just dead before I can get 2 hits in most of the time lol

[kindred depot]

If I didn't know better I would say this shit is bugged. It shouldn't be that hard to add a check to see what the previous used move was then pull from a list without refract in it if refract was the previously used move. Even a 1 turn cooldown would be better than whatever this is. It's absurd.

[rugged belfry]

BeoA has always been good at raiding, it's not about this event

[rugged belfry]

Even better now

[true sky]

I think this may be a visual bug. I saw one yesterevening with 2 players hitting cap, 1 hit 100k less than cap, and the 4th had 3.7m dmg done. It should've been dead, but it was waiting for about 10 minutes before it was finally gone. Cooldown present, player list still present

[keen thunder]

i dont think thats the case, at least based on my experience doing that

[rugged belfry]

It's not a visual bug, when I enter the fight, the boss is already half hp

[true sky]

I should've screencapped it, but didn't.

[stark sonnet]

At first it was like o no someone broke the cap...now it's like I hope someone does it so we don't sit there with 7 xs after 3/4 people die to refract

[quaint snow]

So I'm assuming 6 Raids in an instanced area is the max? Pretty fun waiting 15 minutes just so I can hit the same raids for a second time

[tribal ridge]

Is this right? 😅😅 We entered together and I saw him dealing this dmg at the same time I was dealing my damage limit

[keen thunder]

#👋│general message

[tribal ridge]

Oh damn, I should have put some Asc in my beoH, at least I wouldn't be stuck with that low limit 🫠... Thanks for the info

[rugged belfry]

Now my Apo Y is becoming a X lol

[keen thunder]

its not really about the asc, its that 1 line of amity/bb (15% extra damage at full hp) or smth like that

[neon gust]

The experience I had so far was pretty normal, I managed to reach dmg cap for 10ish x and 5ish y per mnemonics, rarely getting the problem of x's that were left unkilled, I feel like reducing the cooldown to hit the raid again could solve it, like 5 min

[cobalt girder]

Ayyyyyy is that me haha

[winter sage]

Comparing random world boss. The boss is also faster, lol.

[old lava]

Y'all don't have to go beo to do this lol

Oracle using a bb1 amity with gywll and a 15% dmg amity

[winter sage]

That’s honestly harder lol. Two specific amities and a pet that hasn’t been available in ?8? months is much more demanding than a class, lol.

[drowsy sparrow]

Just played for a half hour, hopping shards once raids were clear. Never saw a Y

[stark sonnet]

I mean most t11 have been t10 for months and just 4 months ago all follower were available. It's worth upgrading your keep to just get all follower

[winter sage]

Oh, I have a keep at max upgrade and I am a follower collector. But I've only been t10 for...well, since last autumn, but I took a six-month break after hitting t10, so in terms of gameplay only a couple months.

And tbh I'd assumed Wrecked's advice was targeted at t10 players, especially newer t10 players. I figured most t11 players wouldn't need such advice because they're by definition more experienced. But maybe that was a bad assumption.

[stark sonnet]

Most t10 lack amity because they have no idea how strong they are. Them not having 15% DMG at full does not surprise me.

That said there are bb1 and 15% at full all available on or a legends

[winter sage]

I am also an amity collector lmao. My Seer's Guild is higher than most, and I just got the second wisp today. But I've never found a 15% damage nor a BB1 amity. (I know I could join a targeted party for it. I just have never bothered yet. I do know how strong they are though.)

[winter sage]

Not saying it’s super high. A dedicated hunter who’s been playing more than a year will be much higher. But it’s higher than most I see.

[stark sonnet]

I'm 48 and not even in the top 100

I waited a long time to join communities and regret it

Lots of good amity that are now gone

[winter sage]

Yeah, I'm guessing it's an exponential-shaped curve. Most people are like 25 or below, and then there are a few who're way way higher.

That's how most of these things pan out

I guess that would be a reverse-exponential-shape curve?

A asymtotic curve?

Eh, you know what I mean lmao

[tribal ridge]

To get past the 25% cap, right? But I'm sorry that maybe my BeoH 0asc can't reach above 2kk without a few turns of buffing (I haven't tested it yet), so having the correct pet and amitys wouldn't solve the problem

But I'll try to test the dmg in raids at another time (I usually use Heretic)

[lucid patrol]

Anyone else seeing people breaking the damage limit on freshly spawned Raids?

[magic needle]

yeah, it's a "damage on full life" bug that has been mentioned a lot in this thread recently.
I guess the 'strat' is spreading and more people are doing it.

[lucid patrol]

Ah, I was not aware it was a known bug.

[coral comet]

Looks like the using scrolls in succession to get new raids was patched?

[winter sage]

Yep, it's happening in t10 lobbies too

For example

Lots of people abusing it, since NF hasn't addressed it (and it doesn't seem like NF is going to address it, since it's been known for months)

Anyway, I got into a shard just now with multiple of the same people I was in with yesterday. Which is interesting because this is a very different time of day than I was doing it yesterday; it's nearly 2 hours earlier in the day than I was doing it yesterday.

That implies the possibility that:

1. There may be few enough t10 players doing it that many of us are ending up in the same shard a lot, and
2. Some people who are doing it may be doing it many hours per day.

Regarding “strategy,” I’ve stopped engaging with raids like this entirely. If I see this, I no longer even start the raid.

At most I could do 20% to those - and even that only if nobody else is competing with me. Not worth it when the t10 instances tend to have plenty of fresh raids to do.

(I mentioned in another channel, in my first two Mnemonics I dealt the final blow to Polly X 20 times. I was routinely mopping up and getting almost nothing for it, lol.)

Anyway. MOAR QUANTITATIVE DATA!!!

Today I decided to try and get an estimate of how frequently Polly used Refract, as an acual sample and not just vibes. I chose four raids - three Y and one X. I chose the raids before engaging, to prevent bias. I then screenshotted the logs of those raids and counted (a) the total number of turns Polly took, and (b) how many of those turns were Refract. I counted multi-turn moves as one turn, so if he used Arcane Strikes I only counted the turn he started it.

The result? Of those four raids, Polly used Refract on 18 of every 25 turns, or 72% of the time.

That is, to be fair, a really low sample size. More data is needed. But it's a start, and it does kind of confirm why so many of us have a sense that he spams Refract a lot.

[rugged belfry]

Time to build refineries to farm AL

[winter sage]

Plus side, I did cap my first raid today

An X, for which I got nothing of value

[winter sage]

Checking my inbox, I only have seven notifications of raids completed today—but I definitely damaged way more than 7 raids during my Mnemonic today. I have zero notifications for X raids that rewarded >148mil exp, which suggests that the one I capped hasn’t died (since I’d expected a 40% cap to reward far more than that; 50% on a t10 WRB rewards well over 300mil). There are probably 3-4 others not in my inbox either.

I know it’s been said that raids which don’t die will remain on the field to be hit later. Is there a time limit on that? It’s been several hours, and I’d kind of expect someone to have killed those by now.

[winter sage]

As a matter of fact, the very latest notification in my inbox is timestamped 16:57. As documented here, I was still fighting in the shard well after that point.

Looking at my gear drops (which I haven't sorted, forfeited, or dismantled yet), it looks like it's not a matter of the inbox not giving notifications. Rather, it looks like I have everything accounted for in my inbox, but every raid I hit between 16:57 and leaving the shard has not paid out.

I don't know whether that's because none of those raids have died yet or whether there's a bug preventing rewards from being delivered - but the former seems unlikely to me.

I know I was in the shard until roughly 17:10. I don't know the exact time I left, but I know it was roughly 5-7 minutes after I took the screenshot in that bug report. So, there are roughly ten minutes of raids for which I have not received any rewards.

[bitter bluff]

Can anyone please explain me how the cap system is working?
I see a fe T10+ players that reach much more than my 25%

[hoary surge]

Don't stress too much about understanding it just this second, Odie been cooking some stuff this weekend. Keep your eyes on #patch-notes folks 💪

[trim belfry]

#patch-notes message

[zinc geyser]

Amazing change Odie thank you!

[deep oriole]

Awesome thanks Odie!

[rugged belfry]

Do we have info of the damage cap to get maximum reward ?

[swift jungle]

We also don't know how frequently the raids die

[vocal mountain]

Common orna devs W

[swift jungle]

Oh there's a timer

The timer only seems to work sometimes 😅

Ok still seems to be three minutes(?)

[winter sage]

You absolute madman, you did it!

(/complimentary)

[bitter bluff]

Infinite hp, let's wait for first loots now

[hardy stag]

Everyone asked for infinite HP but no one requested they die

[drowsy sparrow]

Thank you Odie!

[keen thunder]

great change ❤️

now, just gotta find out how much damage is needed for the full loot

[rugged belfry]

If it's 110M, I'm not sure it's great change

[zinc geyser]

Anyone have one die yet? or get rewards?

[hardy stag]

please no cap

[swift jungle]

I would be 110m for absolute max rewards, presumably

But the raids die every three minutes

[keen thunder]

i'd assume x10 as well

[hoary surge]

Tbh unsure if it's 10x, or just 1x with infinite health to deal with the feedback players were sending around not getting hits in

We have a few meetings coming up, I'll try clarify

[north narwhal]

bruh, when do I stop?

[keen thunder]

both seems logical, x10 being probably too much of a "bonus" for the endgame players

[magic needle]

hopefully at an old age, surrounded by friends and family, at peace.

[north narwhal]

also, raids disappearing without rewards is, normal for now?

[swift jungle]

The slight potential problem is that Arisen Waygate raids stop counting damage when they 'despawn'

And that is not indicated within the raid

So hopefully Odie fixed or worked around that in this case

[rugged belfry]

Maybe Odie is figuring out the best threshold by looking at how people are doing for now

[hoary surge]

Yeah, for sure. I'd get that in an ORN feedback post I reckon

[cosmic fiber]

@keen thunder having milion reward per minute

[trim belfry]

aight

[hoary surge]

Yoshi tryna PvP me for Appy Y scraps

[trim belfry]

blood for the blood god

[zinc geyser]

its just a punching bag!

[hardy stag]

(High AL) I like the idea no cap, not just because it benefits me, but makes it a lot more interesting as far as how much I care about playing around refracts/blocking on Annihilation, buffing properly etc. If it was just 10m or even 100m I just mindlessly mash the thing.

[keen thunder]

got the first batch of reward, seems like its an x1 for me (or this might be a leftover from previous ones)
judging from the proof of felling reward, its 50% cap (0.5x of a polly)

[rugged belfry]

Feels higher to me

[silk remnant]

Awesome change! Thanks for listening and even more for implementing!

[hoary surge]

There does appear to be no perfect answer for engagement and acceessibility in this event. Seems like most folks want highest accessbility possible though, and this is hitting that for sure.
Honestly feels too accessible to me now 😅

[winter sage]

I haven’t tried it yet. 3 minutes might be a bit tight for my preferred raid style (which takes several turns to get going), but I’ll happily take that over not being able to hit the damn things at all because they keep dying!

[tame locust]

well, at least we turned Ornates off for the event

[opaque sage]

I think the current accessibility is perfect. Let people smash the raid when they want to.

If the rewards are too much, there is now just 1 knob for odie to adjust, which is the rewards.

Whether it caps at .5x or 10x rewards, this is still waaaaaay better than it was before

[dense raven]

And still, same people will join the next event thread to trash talk when it's again a quite quick improvement taking into account constructive feedback 😋
Thank you Odie/NF ! ❤️

[cosmic fiber]

ok, got first rewards

1x rewards

[keen thunder]

10 proof of fellings?

[chrome sable]

Did ~100-400mil per raid

[stark sonnet]

do you have to wait for the 30 minute timer to boot you to get the reward, i feel like ive hit a lot of stuff and nada so far

[north narwhal]

so theres no point going past 11mil?

[stark sonnet]

how else to you brag in this game if you dont post 100-400m dmg screen shots :-p

[tender arrow]

For real ?

[cosmic fiber]

imo, thats the best possible way ...

[tender arrow]

So hitting it for its max hp will suffice ?

No need to 10x

[chrome sable]

Seems so

[cosmic fiber]

im just glad i dont have to potion up after every raid 🤣

[north narwhal]

I did hit for ~100-150, but feels like a time waste if 11 is the goal

[chrome sable]

Time waste? No such thing

[stark sonnet]

enhance

[winter sage]

Honestly, that’s perfect for me. Many (most?) people won’t be doing 100% in three minutes.

[tender arrow]

I haven’t gotten the rewards yet , so I did a couple for 100 and couple for just 1x maybe I can spot the difference though I doubt it

[chrome sable]

enhanced?

[tender arrow]

Hahah

[stark sonnet]

lol i already looked, it just came out super dark on my phone

[zinc geyser]

I got one reward for a y after hitting 10 y and one x after 30mins

[stark sonnet]

since the new loot method seems closer to arisen waygates, i assume crest of felling no longer works to boost it?

[winter sage]

I’m not sure it worked before

IDK why anyone would use such a limited resource on raids like these that they can’t control

[stark sonnet]

before they at least behaved like regular raids and gave the reward instantly, so i assumed it would have worked,

[winter sage]

Definitely not instant lol. Not always.

[stark sonnet]

but what else are you saving them for, they only really boost legendary rareity items of which i am not exactly looking for any

[tender arrow]

Wow you popped crest of felling for this

Real OG

[frosty narwhal]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[winter sage]

I had one delayed like 5 hours yesterday, and a few more still not come in

[chrome sable]

they make famed rewards go from 90% rate when doing 100% dmg to 100%, that's their best use imo

if you want to use crest of felling for legendary items it's best to wait to stack with the event as well

[stark sonnet]

right but what are you saving them for? I am not lacking on any of my famed or legendary rareity items

[chrome sable]

Im saving mine for the felling event to clear my A.moris

[stark sonnet]

I have 10 crests, i didnt use one, but i dont know what im saving them for ><

[chrome sable]

I'm also gonna use them when I farm my Cerus/persus raids for 100% drop rate on the adorns

can never have too many of those

[stark sonnet]

no kidding every tie you think you are done adorning, i decide to build xyz new items

[silk remnant]

Each time a player reaches damage cap, for them, the next raid has a +1 anguish difficulty level?

[static lance]

ayyy, good stuff 💪 love it

[silk remnant]

And ornate are only enabled on anguish 1, 10, 20, 30 etc. 😄

[hoary surge]

As a heads up to folks - there's a lot of raid killin' going on. This will mean there might be a bit of a backlog on reward distribution while things are hot!

[stark sonnet]

ive noticed, lol but i think we all expected it

[north narwhal]

how did I get more???

[stark sonnet]

Definitely need more than 12m for max reward

[north narwhal]

its not 1x

~20 mil

[chrome sable]

okay yeah I just got 8 more Y rewards and didn't hit anymore?

[swift jungle]

Because of the timer

[north narwhal]

~90 mil

~150 mil

[swift jungle]

Remember only the first 3 minutes of damage you do counts

[north narwhal]

ok that makes a lot more sense

also

[swift jungle]

Or, not even first 3 minutes if you start after the raid spawns

[north narwhal]

ok this became a lot harder

[sturdy aurora]

So, i got my reward, apparently the cap is 1x max HP

[swift jungle]

You missed the conversation that happened 30 seconds ago lmao

[north narwhal]

you are a bit late

its not 1x, its 10x in first 3 minutes after spawn

[swift jungle]

Well we don't know it's 10x either

[keen thunder]

its not x10

[sturdy aurora]

Not sure, i got like 14 reward notifications and all of them are 1x

[swift jungle]

But it is definitely only the first 3 minutes of the raid's existence

[fading lotus]

It's superior stuff -> 3.3x ?

[sturdy aurora]

and pretty sure can do more than 1x HP in 3 mins

[keen thunder]

doing 150 mil in 3 hits a couples seconds in does not give me more than x1 rewards

[stark sonnet]

I'll test it again but stopping at 12m got me a lot of nothing

[swift jungle]

I guess Brye of all people will know

[north narwhal]

so, its 10x damage in first 3 minutes?

[sturdy aurora]

reward need time to deliver to you 🙂

[ornate steppe]

no

[keen thunder]

its just x1 in the first 3mins of the raid's lifespan

[ornate steppe]

you need to do 1x damage within the 3 min that it spawns

anything after is void even though youre still in the raid

[sturdy aurora]

Is it 10x after that 3 mins? Or they despawn after 3 mins?

[ornate steppe]

1 X

3 min from spawning

[cunning dirge]

ah so max rewards is x1?

i think that's fair

[stark sonnet]

No i got the reward, but it was as if i didnt hit it at all, 1 item

[sturdy aurora]

1x all items or just 1 item?

[ornate steppe]

1x "rewards" from a raid

[sharp hinge]

I got this from 47M in under 3 mins

[past flint]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-panicking-panic-run-stressed-gif-5303378

[stark sonnet]

this was 12m dmg as soon as it spawned

[sturdy aurora]

So this is even less than the last patch
30 mins for ~14-15 raids

[past flint]

yes but "full" rewards

[sturdy aurora]

i still remember the 1st Apoll event, i farmed like 70-80 ApollX in 30 mins. Only 12% HP limit but got me tons of ornate and mats
That was great

[keen thunder]

transfer char to hoa when? 100% 24/7

[edgy vector]

Doesn't look like 11m gets full rewards from what I'm seeing

[stark sonnet]

same

[full arch]

rewards this rewards that blah blah blah ||/jk||
thank Odie for changing refract logic 🙏🙏🙏

[stark sonnet]

i have 6 xs up and no ys 😦

[silk remnant]

Same

[stray swallow]

Yup no more Y spawns 😩

[past flint]

odie changing things in the background maybe

or we broke it

[stray swallow]

yeah im sure being live changes Odie may just be working on stuff

[past flint]

my raid timer went away

[stark sonnet]

i sitll have a raid timer

[past flint]

and poll-y is back

[stark sonnet]

same

so for X, 12m = 10 proof of felling, but for y, it looks like you need 10x hp for 1x reward (10x proof)

[amber lava]

Really??

[keen thunder]

this is getting a bit weird, i tried one tapping pollys for > 1x of their HP to make sure either getting full rewards, or 0 due to timer

yet, i still get 3/4/7, random number proof of fellings (which determines the damage dealt, 1 per 10% presumably)

[stark sonnet]

i purposely did 12m max to X, and have nothing but 10x proofs...for y i tried to get 110m but usually got 24-50m, and never got more than 5 proofs

[rugged belfry]

I think there is random

It's like 1x * (a factor of random to lower rewards)

[stark sonnet]

X is 100% at 12m, no random at all. Y doesnt seem random, it seems like 10x hp = 1x reward but i cant regullarly hit 110m

[teal blade]

So i hit around 120 millions and got 9 proof of felling,trex theory may be correct

[amber lava]

I got almost everything(or i got everything, I didn't pay attention) with 36m

[rugged belfry]

I have never hit for 110M, only 12M max

[keen thunder]

yeah, idk, x1 dmg, x10 dmg, still random proof of fellings and/or rewards

[stark sonnet]

i wonder if its still splitting it based on the people who hit it

[rugged belfry]

Sounds coherent

Time to play at 5 am then

[stark sonnet]

i did 31m but got 0 proof 😕

[keen thunder]

hopefully we'll get a clear explanation on how the rewards works from odie, probably unlikely though

[winter sage]

I mean, it sure looks like Odie hashed this out in a weekend after previously thinking it couldn’t be done. To be frank, I appreciate the effort and I’m not upset nor particularly surprised there are bugs to squash.

I’ll take this over the way it was before, and I’m sure it’ll get better as they tweak it

[spring hearth]

2 pof for 2x hp

also feels like the raid stats were lowered

[stark sonnet]

it feels 100% random, averaging 30-40m and getting 0-9 proofs on apollyon y

on the upside i got an ornate...so i wont fall for odies tricks!

[spring hearth]

idk. 10 for 2x on an X.

0 pof, 3-4 items for 300k on a few x & y

[stark sonnet]

i have yet to hit for 50m + and i have a 9 and 10 proof kill in my log,

[spring hearth]

the raids always being on the map is a nice change

[swift jungle]

Is it possible we're still splitting rewards?

That might be why it seems "random"

[cunning dirge]

i hit 32m for 10 proofs , so idk

[vocal mountain]

"that's not bad rng, you were just paired with brye"

[rugged belfry]

If that's true, the goal is to play alone and avoid people at all cost

[stark sonnet]

thats what i think it is, cause when i was the only one hitting x, i was getting 100% at 12m. with others hitting them i dont

[rugged belfry]

And Y are priority targets thus having more cases of split rewards

[swift jungle]

Make sure you play at 4am ( )

[stark sonnet]

always do >< best amities spawn in the middle of the night, proven fact

[rugged belfry]

All good at least I won't get spammed by the bot to contribute to Amity hunter

[zinc geyser]

Y's are not spawning now last two "events"... who complained

[swift jungle]

Up your VD

[zinc geyser]

1160 and nothing this happening to anyone else?

[stark sonnet]

it keeps happening even with VD. y looks like it skips a round or 2

[winter sage]

I definitely misread both tone and meaning here

[rich comet]

I was a bit blunt in my criticism of riftbreak rollout in the past, but I have to say that it is really nice to see a dev take multiple swings at fixing an event early on.

It is very appreciated Odie.

[coral comet]

Awk xd

[stark sonnet]

you got so excited to see a Y, your forgot to heal before engaging?....not that i have ever done that....

[coral comet]

I was excited alright

Xd

[winter sage]

Is that a katar in your pocket or are you just excited to see me?

[stark sonnet]

its a broken katar, cant even counter

[rich comet]

Alright Odie now that I've buttered you up, can you make Apolyon go back to wasting his whole day countering? His "hitting me in face" strategy is interfering with my quality Towerfall time. Thanks.

[abstract star]

He totally should have have said "Stop Hitting Yourself" as he reflected

[winter sage]

Skill issue tbh. Just get him to zero!
/teasing

[rich comet]

Seriously though, he does hit me for 0 until I hit snotra or Prom blasts him once or twice. Was just hilarious when I could play insanely unsafe and most of the time he wouldn't even touch me.

[past flint]

Are they confirmed to be splitting rewards? 🫣

[stark sonnet]

odie hasnt said anything yet, but ive done 115m x3 times now and only gotten 4-5 proofs

[past flint]

Do you remember how much damage others had done?

[rugged belfry]

On average I'm farming more slowly than before

[sick lark]

Odie didn't confirm but I'm observing that they are

I got 2 proofs and only 4 drops when I did 25m dmg

[chrome sable]

I just tested, did 2 raids, and this was the result of each

[swift jungle]

Congrats on the axe

[past flint]

[stark sonnet]

This was my most recent

[past flint]

63% of the total dmg for 8 proofs assuming you did the 117

rough math

[stark sonnet]

yeah that was me, 10x hp would be 10 proofs, so something is funky

[past flint]

assuming AW math yes

As it stands, that screenie doesn't prove either equations

[rugged belfry]

It actually does

[past flint]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-crazy-pepe-silvia-gif-27373442

does it?

[stark sonnet]

i mean look at sirits, he did 100m+ dmg and got 1 proof and was the largest contributor

[past flint]

theoretically, he'd have gotten 6-7 proofs?

[glossy solstice]

Overall farming is slower but less boring now. Swing and a miss

[rugged belfry]

Yeah actually mb

It's like an adjusted version

[past flint]

his first screenshot he did 34% of the total damage

but then we add time to the equation lel

so then it's "how much of that damage was before time ran out" kind of deal

[rugged belfry]

What happens when 2 people hit a raid ? Are proof split as well ?

Or 3

[stark sonnet]

i promise yu i tag every Y the second it spawns and deal 30m+ dmg in < 1 min ;-p

[rugged belfry]

Is it a shared pool of proof among all participants ?

[hoary surge]

Wouldn't say it's a swing and a miss - might just need number tweaking.
This was a suggestion made by, and voted on by the community: #💡│suggestions message

I think the efforts shouldn't be thrown out, appreciate Odie spending time on it. Some numbers adjusting can still happen

[past flint]

I think it's a solid step in the right direction, for sure

[stark sonnet]

i think just knowing how the loot is being split would alleviate a lot of the strife at the moment

[hoary surge]

I don't know those numbers so can't provide them apologies - but I do know Odie has been monitoring this thread and the event pretty heavily.

It's always better to not start at too accessible and dial back. If you start at a rate that isn't quite good enough, we can dial it up.
If we start at way too easy, then it's almost impossible to dial it back

The mechanics of how this operate currently was definitely worth the effort imo. Just some number tweaks from here I think

[stark sonnet]

I get that, but, am i shooting for 10x hp, or am i competing with people with 300 AL doing 300m dmg, it makes a big difference when i know what my goal is :-p

[swift jungle]

This implementation overall feels good to play and works much better than previously. The rewards are just a mystery

[glossy solstice]

Well I still say it is - you're not the one who is trying to farm this gear, I am. From a player perspective it's a sidegrade, and I'm not discounting the effort made to improve it but this event needs to respect our time more

[hoary surge]

And here I was thinking I was playing the game lol

[sick lark]

How much damage are you doing on average to the apolly ys? 🤔

[hoary surge]

Just getting at the fact that we are monitoring for community consensus, and it is amazing that Odie spent time on his weekend working on this for us!
Let's aim for constructive ideas, rather than just saying things are bad. Infinitely easier to work with, and draw something out of

[glossy solstice]

Where did I say it was bad?

[rain flame]

People don't like the new system, they want the one before it.

[rugged belfry]

Not everyone can read russian but thank you for the screens

[hoary surge]

Not directly, but the language was 'swing and a miss', rather than a constructive alternate suggestion.
Swing and a miss gives us nothing to work with, suggestions do!

Hope that makes sense

[winter sage]

People will never be happy with anything lol. Admitted that I haven’t tried the new system yet, but I think it sounds much better!

[swift jungle]

"Swing and a miss" usually means trying and failing

[glossy solstice]

I mean, that's a nice way to put exactly what happened.

You're acting like any criticism is negative and unconstructive, I'm acknowledging an effort was made while pointing out it still needs work. You are correct that at this point it just needs a numbers tweak

It was an offhand comment, I did not expect to get a defensive dev reply lol

[hoary surge]

Perhaps my language came across rougher than intended

I certainly didn't feel any intensity, just thought this is a normal conversation. Just trying to do my role and move the conversation into actual solutions, thats all <3

[glossy solstice]

My intention wasn't to antagonize, it was kind of just a play on drels comment earlier

[rain flame]

Suggestion.
Bring back the 25% limit and remove the ability to hit above 25%.
Give out shards of terrain farther away from water, people are agonizing to kill water mobs.
Give out 3 raids and 7 X's in Y shards.
Put in a shard one 5 players, and if they want to move to another shard, and in their shard becomes less than 5, all people should be distributed to other shards.

Apolion was a good event to create a quick build into raids so that players with more AL don't kick you out of the raid

[hoary surge]

We definitely have some contrasting opinions here.
ORN have done a good job of summarising and placing in #💡│suggestions thus far. Perhaps with some additional time folks can collaborate on the missing piece to wrap this thing up!

[stark sonnet]

it feels hella bad doing 40-50m dmg and getting squat sometimes, and othertimes ou get full rewards, while with the 25% cap it was extremly consistent

[rugged belfry]

Damage cap moved from 3M raw damage to theoretically 110M which is 36 times difference. It is much more time consuming now. And drop chances seem much lower for unknown reasons

[opaque sage]

It would be helpful to target feedback if we knew how the rewards were supposed to be working

I have to assume that the current "I did 50 million but somebody else did 500 million so i get nothing" system isn't intended and is a bug

but if its not, thats a problem

[rain flame]

Ru ORN doesn't seem to be participating because it doesn't have access to Discord

[hoary surge]

I understand, and agree. Clarity on the numbers would be a solid starting point

Odie will likely pop in at some point, he's aware that there's ongoing discourse for sure

[cunning dirge]

maybe it's an unintended feature winkwink 😛

[sick lark]

I agree with this, it's a bit of a gamble for a lot of people on whether they're being put in a memory with multiple 100+ al players leading to them getting no drops

[stark sonnet]

He was my 50m DMG with poop loot

[bitter bluff]

The weird fact is the different behaviour between X and Y loot

[rugged belfry]

But tbh I acknowledge it's a good practice to start strict and go up slowly through feedback, the other way around would raise so much more issues

[opaque sage]

ideally, the system is supposed to be -> Do max health (10M) get full rewards (or .5, or whatever), regardless of what other people do. And then you get 2 X and 1 Y to kill every 3 minutes

[stark sonnet]

i assume its cause less people are event trying on x, i myself engage, do 10m, and flee in 1-2 turns just to get them to despawn

[sick lark]

It does feel like less people are attacking the apolly xs now so this might finally be my chance to farm some ornate apolly x gear

But this is an unintended side effect of all the high al players trying to 1 up each other on the apolly ys leaving the apolly xs untouched

[past flint]

Get me a lute while you're there

[chrome sable]

I'd say it's best to pin a message along the lines of:
"It's known there are issues/discrepancies in rewards, it's currently being worked on, give some time as this new style of raiding was just implemented for the first time today"

[stark sonnet]

i would be fine with - do the same >2.9m dmg, get the same reward as before (25% contribution)

[rain flame]

With this system, it's better to bring the drop to x10 so that beating such numbers will at least be interesting

[hoary surge]

I cannot as I don't have the information to verify it isn't working correctly, as I don't know the numbers myself apologies.
Odie is but one man, and will pop in when he has capacity.

In the interim, you could instead ask one of the ORN to pin a post on all the things you desire clairity on. Ideally an #1122705721281220628 post would be started with things that have changed, and things that need adjusting/clarity too

[rain flame]

Oh, you want to take my axe too? ( I'm hunting for an ornate axe )

[cunning dirge]

i'd say that while i like the idea, that might be a bit way too overpowered, like imagine each 3 minutes you get x10 rewards xD, i would say that x2 max rewards would be more than enough it's each 3 minutes anyways.

[chrome sable]

Yeah if it was 10x or even 5x it would be crazyyy, that means I would have over 150-300 raids worth of drops in a matter of 30mins

[rain flame]

I could kill a lot of raids in 2 minutes, so this 2+ minute wait is very bad for me to get the axe

[stark sonnet]

You dropped something

[sick lark]

I think they mean cap the rewards at 10x if the rewards are being split

[torpid jasper]

Surely just cap the rewards to 1x per raid is the simple solution?

Base solely on your own damage dealt

[rain flame]

I hunt exclusively for the axe )

[stark sonnet]

i want theif or war shoes, but instead i get 3x pairs of mage shoes. dance monkeys dance

[chrome sable]

I think the thing too is that these raids are basically as close as you can get to being completely free, even getting full rewards from it for only 10mil dmg seems like a bit much imo

[sick lark]

Having 1 event with basically free stuff isn't too much is it

[rain flame]

But you wait 3 minutes before the next raid.

[past flint]

Maybe it's just randomized?

Do x damage, chance to receive 10%-100% rewards, randomly

[rain flame]

It's the first fun event that forced you to make a build for a quick limit kill. The first raid that doesn't require grind scrolls

[rugged belfry]

Maybe you can try to emphasize on the cooperation part, it has been fully competitive since the beginning of this event

[hoary surge]

While some folks for sure enjoyed the quick damage to race others part, it was equally frustrating for folks unable to make that happen due to not being the right level, have the right gear, ascension levels or class/follower/amity combination.

I think this one will work better for everyone once the numbers are worked out!

[fluid light]

For me the changes feel super great. I'm definitely spending more time active than just waiting, even though there are some passively sitting time for sure.
Im seeing a lot more Ys now too. I kinda liked the previous version, but this is objectively better imo.
Also no anxiety of missing a raid just because my phone took an extra 5 seconds to load the raids.
ALSO no more cap busting exploits, those felt incredibly unfair

[glossy solstice]

You are still investing quite a lot of time into it. And the return on that time is pretty poor compared to other events

[trim belfry]

Maybe we could list some suggestions on what the gear is lacking?

[spring hearth]

why is the gear lacking?

1 piece of Polly Y gear makes the hunt for broken-everything moot

[rain flame]

It's a good idea to make a list of what people though

[spring hearth]

im scared of the 500k ward full power swashbucklers in the near future

[trim belfry]

here's my list

• weapons should cost realm ore
  thief/warrior gear lacks
• classline passives
• foresight

[spring hearth]

ok ya weaps need love

but.. not really, cause celestials

warrior gear is the bis for swash

(ok im guessing but it looks amazing)

[chrome sable]

I mean the last Beastfelled event I spent hours upon hours farming, got ~70+ Beastfelled scrolls, and yeah I got some bristles and avalon but didn't end up with a single useful ornate, it doesn't feel all that different time/reward wise for this event either if anything this time around I've gotten significantly more ornates/useful materials for significantly less time spent playing

[rain flame]

Waiting too long for raid updates
Armor lacks class passives
Too few raids per spawn
Too many water mobs
Few red mobs

[spring hearth]

like everyone else basically has said, I hope the reward rolls scale w/ damage predicably. Id be happy with 40% equivalent for 100% dmg, 80% equivalent for 200%, 100% for 2.5 (based on initial event 40% dmg cap rewards, which were aiite)

[trim belfry]

I haven't had any problems farming red mobs. I was using affinity candle, beasts blood, two lovers losts and other monster attraction gear

[spring hearth]

ive run out of red mobs more than once

not farming them particularly hard tho. theyre in monuments & dungeons too so its easy

[trim belfry]

joining/leaving a (n alts) party resets world mobs

[rain flame]

Maybe because the Beastfelled event is a bit expensive to craft ?
I have an example where I got all the stuff I needed for the event with A Morrigan at 190+ quality after spending 3 evenings for 3 hours of scroll farming ( killed about 500 raids with two of us ).

[chrome sable]

You also need to take into account how long it took you to get the scrolls to spawn those 500 A.moris though

[rain flame]

On the first and second day I went out in min s on farming, on the third day noticeably became a little better, even some that 2 Craft can do, but spend 4.

[chrome sable]

Two people getting 250 scrolls each and killing 500 raids in a matter of 3 hours seems off to me?

Or do you mean 3 hours each evening?

For a total of 9?

[rain flame]

In the last event there was an infinite number of them + water mobs, now their number has been reduced and we have been moved closer to the water

[rain flame]

About 2k scrolls have been unlocked

+-500 Morigan raids were killed in this event alone

[rain flame]

7hous +-

[sick lark]

Scrolls farming is on the easier side of things now anyways

Standard scroll events are probably easier than this

[chrome sable]

So assuming you killed all 500 A.Mori's in 3 hours that's 10 hours for 500 raids, in the event right now you can technically get 600 raids in 10 hours of farming

[trim belfry]

i haven't had any troubles so far

[rain flame]

They're already boring, you need scrolls for every event. This was the essence of the event in this world.

[torpid jasper]

Use affinity candles to farm red mobs

[crisp sundial]

This new situation makes me feel like I'm playing more for less

[torpid jasper]

Hopefully they fix the reward percentages

[rain flame]

It used to be possible to see such things on the big view, now you have to choose ( yes, the situation with the number of slightly changed compared to the first day )

[hardy stag]

This might confirm the splitting theory, was in a dead shard

[humble wing]

all players share drop based on their damage
if one hit 200m+ and others are 10-20m, only first player will receive drop, all others will get poop

[cunning dirge]

so the max is 1x Rewards right?

[humble wing]

max 1x

[glossy solstice]

If they upped max rewards to 3x and fixed players splitting damage this event would be perfect

[north narwhal]

is the "only first 3 minutes of damage counts" still relevant?

[north narwhal]

3x for a free raid is kinda broken

[cunning dirge]

i think it's fine, it takes out the pressure of limit health, and you still get to do a 1x raid every 3 minutes if you are strong. enough, or get enough rewards if you don't

[winter sage]

I still haven’t had the chance to try it, but if I can get more than 1-2 hits in it’s already better for me than it was.

[rugged belfry]

You hit less and get less, so no

[swift jungle]

But this system seems a lot easier to fix than the old system, it's better at the core.

Now it really is just a matter of Odie tweaking numbers

[rugged belfry]

Yes I agree the core is better, now it's a matter of tweaking numbers

[modest moss]

I think he means having to deal 3x max hp

[winter sage]

I mean, on the old system, I’d take a few turns to buff—maybe 15 seconds total—and it would be dead by the time I was ready to take my first swing.

It’s not mathematically possible to hit less than that. If I can reliably get 1-2 hits per raid, it’s an improvement.

[hardy stag]

What if we all ungear and deal 1 damage

[winter sage]

That would be hilarious, I admit

[swift jungle]

Prisoner's Dilemma

[winter sage]

Oh gods it really is

[north narwhal]

pretty sure "they upped max rewards to 3x" means 3x rewards and not hp

[serene mountain]

This feels so much worse now. Spend more time hitting it but if there's a bunch of others doing 100m+ just going for max up gets you barely anything

[stark sonnet]

This system is hot garbage, in what world does 110m DMG = 2 proofs

Hey Cedric you were in my screen shot

[serene mountain]

Lol, I got 4 drops total from that one

[rugged belfry]

Just wait them to tweak the numbers and hopefully find a meaningful distribution

[serene mountain]

I'm done with this nonsense, no way I'm getting anything decent now

[stark sonnet]

Im doing 100m DMG and getting worse rewards than yesterday

[glossy solstice]

Not at all. That would make the event worth my time, and more importantly it would be fun. Why are there so many fun police on this discord anyways? Why is the possibility of people farming more than you such a huge deal?

[rugged belfry]

Why are you so mad over a game ?

[glossy solstice]

Am I mad?

[rugged belfry]

The event ends in like 2 weeks

[glossy solstice]

Are you here in my house with me 👀

[rugged belfry]

Not you in particular, was answering the others

It's alright, it's just a game, it's ok to take some time off, it's gonna be fixed anytime soon

[sharp hinge]

Yeah, it’s what Knight said, the system is better now, just gotta get the numbers right

[north narwhal]

it takes me ~2 minutes to reach 3x damage, some times less with a bit of luck, if I really try, reaching close to 10x in a span of 3 minutes is not that hard, and I'm just al26, this event is already a huge free silk / proof of avarice farm, making it even more unbalanced will just break the economy

[glossy solstice]

Orna does not have an economy lol

I typically hit 130 mil on these now, hitting cap quickly is not the issue

Feeling like I'm wasting my time os the issue

[raven sinew]

It feels like the economy has been broken since celestial augments were introduced and raids started going down in 3 turns or so, making it much easier getting chase items. Honestly if raids started trending toward this kind of reward structure as a whole it'd be a step in the roght direction imo 😅

[stark sonnet]

The issue with this structure is people with 200+ are getting 80% of the loot, so they get stronger faster

I don't mind being capped at 25% reward, I hate going all out and getting nothing

[frosty narwhal]

If we want this kinda discussion then you have to look at refineries first lol

[zinc geyser]

Im really happy guys im actually seeing Y's

[frosty narwhal]

Now to get those ornates to show up…

[swift jungle]

I think we have determined that rewards are being split, in which case year that is likely something that needs to change

We'll bring it up to Odie (if it he hasn't already read it in this chat)

[zinc geyser]

Last year I killed 1k X's. My Y kills are not tracking but its going to be like 50 hours seeing 10 every 30 mins to get that many kills...

[tame locust]

Oh, has there been anything in chat that I should be reading?

[torpid jasper]

One or two things maybe

[swift jungle]

Tl;dr

Big players do big damage, get big rewards

Other players do less big damage, get little rewards

[torpid jasper]

More like big damage is little rewards because bigger damage is dealt by others, seemingly

[swift jungle]

Splitting without any kind of damage cap is letting some players run away with the rewards, since the rewards seem to be split based on % of damage dealt overall.

[tame locust]

Yeah, I’ll just add a cap

[swift jungle]

Are players still batched into groups that cap at 8? (if I'm remembering that right)

[tame locust]

5% HP damage cap sound good?

[torpid jasper]

If 5% hp is enough for 100% rewards, yes

[tame locust]

I’ll math it out tomorrow. For now, try to stay respectful and constructive chat 🙂

[swift jungle]

Much appreciated, thanks Odie

[dense raven]

Thank you Odie

Refineries dudes, you have 12 hours to do your job

😋

[coral comet]

Yeah my raid speed went down overall, but that is probably healthier for the game

[chrome sable]

Curious, if a cap is added are the rewards given still gonna be split between everyone? Or will everyone get their own reward pool?

[tame locust]

You’ll still be competing, but others wouldn’t be able to greatly outnumber

[cloud estuary]

How much damage to the Hp of raids is currently recommended?

I caused 10x the total amount of Hp, but earned rewards as if I had caused less than 1 million hp

[stark sonnet]

currently you are spliting/competing, so if you do 110m, and 2 others do 200m+ you get like 1/10 to 2/10 reward

[cloud estuary]

There's a player doing 400 million damage, he must be taking all the rewards

[chrome sable]

[cloud estuary]

I'll waste a lot of time, but I'll cause twice as much

[stray swallow]

Simply HoC to the right class and 100x your DPS 😏

[coral comet]

T1 warrior class 100%

Trust me v:

[winter sage]

I actually considered it lmao.

I won’t/can’t leave Deity for three reasons:

1. I like Deity too much.
2. I can’t actually afford an HoC.
3. I have been ridiculously lucky with my mat rolls, so as to have reached (effectively) AL 11 with almost only common mats. No mat lock yet. There’s no way I’d get this far on any other class.

Just gonna have to accept I’m not the fastest raider for a while lol.

[coral comet]

Those are good reasons xd

[torpid jasper]

Yeah idk what the point of the change is exactly. We'll have infinite hp, but a damage cap; rewards for that single raid will be split among everyone who hits it?

So just... 3 minutes for everyone to hit damage cap and dilute the pool 8 ways

[coral comet]

There were lots of people who didnt have a chance to hit it before i guess

[torpid jasper]

But in order to accommodate them, we detract from everyone else? It seems a little strange

Now the only hope everyone will have of getting decent rewards is a low player count instance

[coral comet]

Every action detracts from someone and im noticing less people complaining now whether thats because the changes were favorable or whatever other reason people have to stop complaining xd

Im indifferent tbh

[orchid atlas]

Alright, just got led here. Someone explain to me who thought this was a good idea?

[swift jungle]

Before you say whatever you're about to say, Dzel, look at that

[orchid atlas]

Players who deal dmg equivalent to several damage caps now only receive a fraction, if any rewards.

[north narwhal]

we just need a small number fix to account for slow raiders

[swift jungle]

Odie is going to implement damage caps tomorrow to prevent some people being able to hog all the rewards

[coral comet]

Whats the 5% btw? Didnt read everything lol

[swift jungle]

I think the 5% was a joke

Maybe

[coral comet]

Oh ok

[north narwhal]

also, I dont know if its still a thing, but I think you only have 3 minutes to deal the damage

[orchid atlas]

So....why cant this update get rolled back? It's server side right?

[coral comet]

In 3 minutes im ded so oki xd

[orchid atlas]

I'm getting 3 drops for dealing 10-20mil dmg.

[north narwhal]

why roll back, its going great right now

[torpid jasper]

8 people dealing damage cap and receiving 1/8th of rewards won't feel great either, idk

[swift jungle]

Because fixing this version is still way better than dealing with the old version in most people's opinions

[orchid atlas]

Previously that'd be dmg threshold for about 2-4 raids, providing at least a couple dozen drops.

[north narwhal]

I'm getting full (10 proofs) raid rewards 🤷‍♂️

[torpid jasper]

Dead lobby? Lol

[orchid atlas]

And how much damage do you deal on average?

[north narwhal]

100-150

[torpid jasper]

That seems to be the only way you get rewards, is if you're the only one dealing damage

[orchid atlas]

Theres your answer.

The issue here is when you arent a top dps.

[torpid jasper]

Or you get 10x the damage of everyone else

[orchid atlas]

What Phil said here.

[north narwhal]

but thats just my lobby, people are getting full rewards with 12-20mil

[orchid atlas]

I'm not, and I'm dealing literally that much.

So, I don't see your point here.

[torpid jasper]

For every person that gets full rewards, the other people in the lobby get nothing

[orchid atlas]

Yeah. It's basically a pyramid scheme of a raid rn.

[north narwhal]

my point here is new system is better and we need to just wait until odie wakes up and adjusts the numbers

[torpid jasper]

It's not better for me

Seems to only be better for people who are set up to deal 100mil damage?

[orchid atlas]

It's better if you deal the most damage, which you do, which is why it feels good to you.

[north narwhal]

with old system I saw raids already dead due to delay, or 2-3 people already capping when raid only appeared on my screen, now I atleast can deal damage 🤷‍♂️

[torpid jasper]

Or people who stay in empty lobbies. Guess everyone can try for that

[orchid atlas]

By scaling rewards off other players, this actively disincentivises anyone but the highest damage dealers from even involving themselves in the event.

[north narwhal]

it feels good to me since I'm not competing against location based ping/delay

[orchid atlas]

It also means the highest damage dealers will snowball, getting gear to further increase their damage faster than those that need it most.

[orchid atlas]

You're ignoring those that lose out because of this adjustment.

[north narwhal]

I don't know man, we didnt even see any adjustments yet

[torpid jasper]

Clearly someone's losing out in both implementations. I'm a firm believer there's a better way

[north narwhal]

tomorrow 👍
#1367531517320106134 message

[orchid atlas]

If the adjustment is just to change numbers, then this system will still reward the highest damage dealers.

[coral comet]

Can you even leave and enter another lobby? Tried yesterday and got returned to same lobby 3 times

[orchid atlas]

Or worse, it'll feel unrewarding to even those that get the most rewards.

[torpid jasper]

I doubt you got placed in the same lobby again, unless they changed how the instances work

[north narwhal]

what's the point of competition if everyone is the winner

[coral comet]

I saw my name on the raids..

Xd

[torpid jasper]

After refreshing your map?

[orchid atlas]

What's the point in competing when it's just a case of you saying your gear is better and winning by default

[coral comet]

Yeah i tried every

Thing

Lol

[torpid jasper]

Maybe they changed it then

[orchid atlas]

Raid shouldnt be PvP

But this essentially turns it into nonlinear PvP

[north narwhal]

thats...kinda the nature of competition, you won because you invested more time / had more luck, that's how rpgs work

[orchid atlas]

Clearly you haven't played enough rpgs where strategy is a factor.

This isn't balanced. Going off that logic, people competing against those at the top will always be behind.

I'm not interested in ponzi scheme progression.

[north narwhal]

you REALLY don't wanna wait for number adjust right?

[torpid jasper]

My suggestion:

• 4-person lobbies
• 100% hp damage cap
• 100% raid rewards are split among all players that deal damage
• 3 minute respawn timers/set spawns like current

[orchid atlas]

Again.

This cant just be fixed by numbers unless it just rewards everyone fully.

Unless this is simply a case of the game scaling rewards off infinite hp and not competing damage amounts.

Which it isn't; people are still getting full rewards.

[north narwhal]

if the person with 200al and 10 000 hours gets same rewards as 5al 50h player, what's the point of investing time into the game? higher ascension player needs to get more rewards, but without depriving lower al players, that's the number that needs adjustment, and its incredibly easy to do

[orchid atlas]

The point is PvP.

If someone will never catch up to the perso. With 200 AL and 20k hours because that person always gets the latest gear and highest multiplier of mats, etc why should they play?

[torpid jasper]

Time investment into the event is what this should be about, not ALs

[orchid atlas]

That simply means the first people who played will always be ahead no matter what.

And that anyone who started later or took a break essentially is SoL

[north narwhal]

we can remove al, and keep time invest - same thing

[torpid jasper]

Investment into the event is what I meant

[orchid atlas]

Going off what you said, you'd quit if that happened.

[coral comet]

People need breaks, and it actually happens quite often

[orchid atlas]

You'd start getting rewards similar to those that dont have 3x base stats.

[coral comet]

There are people who caught up to others with a huge head start

[winter sage]

The benefit for me is, I’ll actually be able to hit it. It won’t disappear in 15 seconds while I’m still buffing.

[north narwhal]

because the curve is balanced in a way where to high al player new gear isnt a big power boost factor, by the time person goes from 100 to 101 you could've go from 20 to 30, nobody can keep the same pace, and the scaling curve makes sure that after a while you end up quite close 🤷‍♂️

[torpid jasper]

If you're not dealing 100m damage, you won't get as many rewards as those that do

Because the rewards are split

[orchid atlas]

You're seriously trying to say that 150k ward isnt that much worse than 50k ward in a game where those stats also scale directly to damage?

[north narwhal]

math adjustment - tomorrow~

[winter sage]

If it disappears in 15 seconds I dealt zero. At least this way I’m basically guaranteed to deal more than zero.

[coral comet]

The frustration i got from the update is less than the torment the pre-adjusted raid caused you.. so id say the adjustment was in the right direction

[orchid atlas]

Spiked shield users would like to discuss with you about their 1 turn 150k+ dmg in PvP

[winter sage]

For my case I consider it a win

[frosty narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/kaboom-boom-nuke-nuclear-bomb-gif-20734003

[wise marten]

Now you buffing , spending 3 mins hit as hard as possible, and get poor loot as you hit hundreds before

[north narwhal]

I'm saying that exponential curve makes it so even IF 2 non human players start at the same time, after equal amount of time the difference between them will be meaningless, theres no "never catch up" here

[torpid jasper]

Right, but everything seems to imply that's adjusting the damage cap or something aling those lines, not necessarily making the rewards similar to waygate

[winter sage]

Maybe. But poor loot is better than no loot, which is what I frequently got before.

[north narwhal]

it wasnt a way gate to begin with, event always was about competing for raids

[orchid atlas]

Yes, but that ignores the fact that your exponential progression also means those behind you are exponentionally behind in progression systems that reward strictly based on how far in vs. Others you are

[north narwhal]

math isnt mathing for you is it

[torpid jasper]

Yes but now everyone is getting basically 0 except for the one or two people dealing 100mil+. Not ideal as a whole

[winter sage]

Not even joking, btw

[wise marten]

You can just spending 1 turn to hit something then watch it dies and you get poor loot , in 1 turn
Now you spend 50 turns to get same poor loot

[orchid atlas]

If those systems existed at the start of the game, your friend who started at the same time and got a 200% ornate before you will get x2 the rewards you get with your 100.

[coral comet]

So better matchmaking? Put all the op guys in a room and make them fight each other >:)

[orchid atlas]

And, getting x2 the loot as you, they get x2 the chance to get more ornate gear that furthers the gap.

Do you get it now?

Time doesnt mean anything here.

[torpid jasper]

Great, now the competition is about hitting 100mil+ instead of dealing damage quickly. It's not really much better

[orchid atlas]

It's purely people getting lucky and getting ahead faster, since they'd also secure exp faster too.

[torpid jasper]

Reiterating my suggestion:

• 4-person lobbies
• 100% hp damage cap
• 100% raid rewards are split among all players that deal damage
• 3 minute respawn timers/set spawns like current

[orchid atlas]

I'm sorry that your net isn't amazing, but I know damn well you still got max rewards before this adjustment.

Even if the numbers were adjusted so those at the top only got 10% more rewards, it still means they essentially got free loot for starting before others.

[north narwhal]

it's not that hard to adjust the distribution, rescaling the range of damage 1 mil, 10 mil, 100mil that affects drops from linear to something like 1mil still gets 20% rewards, 10mil gets 27% and 100mil gets 30% or something alike

[coral comet]

The problem isn’t the game, rather the fact that every person believes that they should deserve more or better, and that everyone else should get less xd

[orchid atlas]

And that FOMO will cause newer players to get disillusioned and quit.

[torpid jasper]

If it works this way, that's fine. That's similar to waygate

If it's split based on total damage dealt by all players, that's lame

[orchid atlas]

Not that we see many new, active T10s to begin with, nevertheless T11s. It's always the same, incredibly loud crowd who only want updates that serve their part of progression.

[north narwhal]

pretty sure this was the intent, but cmon guys, odie litteraly spent weekend to BRING SOMETHING THAT WASNT POSSIBLE TO US and all you do is angry at 1 reward distribution curve that is easily fixable

[coral comet]

Basically yeah haha

[north narwhal]

rember, at the start he said AW style raids isnt possible

[torpid jasper]

I'm not angry, and I appreciate the work Odie has done

I am providing feedback

[orchid atlas]

I know who's actually angry here.

People don't want their special treatment taken away.

And I get that.

[north narwhal]

dzel is really trauma dumping from popular MMOs here

[opaque sage]

I really enjoy that this event has turned into a thread explaining why it would have been a good idea to

• cap ALs
• remove refineries 2+ years ago
• nerf ultima
• nerf towerfall
• nerf spiked shield

But nobody wanted that, so we all get to deal with powercrept nonsense

[orchid atlas]

Oi, you gonna ignore my "math" or are you just gonna pretend I didn't make that point?

[coral comet]

https://tenor.com/view/chill-daddy-take-it-easy-calm-down-gif-13696124

How i feel rn

[orchid atlas]

I get that you wanna keep your spot on the leaderboards secured but you need people to play to keep that spot y'know.

[orchid atlas]

Exactly.

[north narwhal]

let's go into general if you wanna talk about game progression math

[torpid jasper]

Dzel you're sounding like the angry one

[orchid atlas]

I'm glad that more people are finally speaking the quiet part out loud.

[coral comet]

Its dad!!!!!

[rich comet]

I'm angry that I couldn't remember making any posts in this thread since early afternoon, but I was mistaking Dzel for my name because it was green on a dark background.

[orchid atlas]

I didn't even speak earlier, I just got here.

[static lance]

I would really appreciate if you all took a 5 min break to grab a snack and a drink and just took a break from reading and writing in this thread.
Thank you.

[orchid atlas]

But the things said here kinda expose that this is part of a bigger problem, which needs to be discussed somewhere.

[tame locust]

The event just needs a simple cap so the top end are equalized. the current problems do not appear to affect T10

i'm not sure there's much use derailing this into conversation about anything but a simple and needed cap.

but that can wait for working hours

[torpid jasper]

I'm curious how this cap will function is all. I dislike the idea of splitting a raid 8 ways based on the damage cap

[orchid atlas]

Same. Previously it was split 3 ways on average.

[north narwhal]

I'm just happy that I can actually see the raids 🧡

[orchid atlas]

Now everyone will get less rewards on average.

[tame locust]

it's a free raid every minute - a little competitiion is welcome imo

[coral comet]

Thats a win for the game as a whole probably 🥲

[orchid atlas]

Last I checked it was dozens of free raids every minute before.

I even took a screenie.

[torpid jasper]

7 raids, not quite dozens

[orchid atlas]

This doesn't show the 360 view, but yeah, you could fight a lot more raids.

[coral comet]

Once the op folks finish nuking everything they wont be hitting on raids anymore xd

[tame locust]

sure, dozens of raids that most folk couldn't touch due to damage limits and delayed timers. a quick scroll up should demonostrate why the community voted for the current approach

[coral comet]

Why are we throwing logic out the window

[orchid atlas]

Yes, but now the issue is what feels like a veterans' discount being given to those at high ALs and punishing newer players for not getting into the game sooner with worse loot for the forseeable future.

[torpid jasper]

Can we at least change the competition from 8 players to 4 or something

[orchid atlas]

As you got lv.230 players competing against 200AL+ monsters.

[tame locust]

as mentioned - the numbers will be worked out tomorrow

[coral comet]

T11s get they own rooms btw

[orchid atlas]

ALs apply before T11.

[tame locust]

there are no AL200 monsters in T10, so this is not accurate

[coral comet]

Not 200 bro

[orchid atlas]

Even so, I still see players dealing hundreds of millions of damage at T10.

[coral comet]

I got like 20 xd

[cloud estuary]

If I leave the zone where the Apollyons are, won't I get the rewards? I've done 4 raids with Dani over 130 million, but I've returned to my base and I haven't received any rewards yet. That was 1 hour ago.

[coral comet]

Geez 100s of millions is op

[orchid atlas]

3 minutes is a short time.

But enough for players to do asinine setups.

[tame locust]

if so - then the cap will work there too. i'm not sure where the concern is

[coral comet]

I can do 10s of millions with a bit of luck, hope to do 100s one day xd

[orchid atlas]

The main concern is just, making raids more competitive, really.

[torpid jasper]

The plight of The Plight of Apollyon Event 2025 is quite troubled

[coral comet]

So they say..

[orchid atlas]

It feels like non-linear PvP more than PvE at that rate when your focus isn't on killing the raidboss, but dealing more damage than some guy you don't even know.

[tame locust]

this is really endgame stuff. there is more content in the event for non-endgame

i see no issue with competition over free raids in the endgame

[orchid atlas]

Except....this is what everyone at T10 gets for the event. And many people say 250 is the "end of the tutorial", meaning this would be before endgame.

Most of the best loot that makes the event worth running at all is in the raids.

[coral comet]

If they do this, i am 100% gonna use the event to hit 245 xd

[orchid atlas]

Otherwise for players the event may as well not exist.

[tame locust]

if we're using memes as data here, i'm about to have a real fun time with y'all

[orchid atlas]

Less memes, more player perception of progression.

[coral comet]

Lol

[coral comet]

They do say that and they really should stop xd

Its not true at all

[orchid atlas]

After all, most of the best means of damage dealing is around 235-245.

At lv.225-230, you're SOL on good DPS for many classes like Heratic.

[north narwhal]

Odie, can we get something like diminishing returns together with the cap on raid damage? such that lower levels won't get fully deprived of rewards and higher level players won't get too much ahead?

[dense raven]

Except...

[tame locust]

anywho, i'm sure all of this can wait until cap and we can then dive into whatever isn't working then

have a great night, all

[orchid atlas]

There are people who literally will deny my spot in the game as a 5 yr player for not being lv.250.

If this raid is endgame, then why don't players agree it is?

Alright, goodnight Odie.

[old lava]

5 yr player saying those who played first are top dog. Yet you're lower than people who have played 1, 2, 3 years 😂. Crazy. You just proved the catch up game isn't impossible

[glossy solstice]

Well it doesn't sound like these raids will ever be faster than 1 per minute which is just way too slow for me. I'm gonna skip the rest of this event but at least this thread was an entertaining read

[coral comet]

See? Now more people can get rewards with one less OP player stealing all the rewards >:)

Perfectly balanced as all things should be

[void mica]

did 60m, multiple people did 300m+, and I got 3 pieces of gear

I hope something can be figured out to make everyone happy. Too many words to read, I'm assuming tomorrow another revision is being made?

[dense raven]

Exactly 🙂

[dense raven]

It's on pined messages

[polar rivet]

I hope ang 2.0 addresses some issues with AL.Wild idea but mb forced AL caps for certain ang content. Like 0 ang AL cap 50 // 10 ang 100 AL etc

[fluid light]

Pls make him immune to stasis beos already dont need to bother with counter lol

[zinc geyser]

I feel like if a Y spawns ever min that would be better than every 3. Ive had a couple spawns where one didnt spawn. Thoughts?

[chrome sable]

Wait are we saying 4 buff turns + basically 100% stasis doing ~250mil in ~1min 30secs isn't balanced??

[coral comet]

Youre an outlier 🥲

[polar rivet]

AL?

[chrome sable]

104

[polar rivet]

Fair, i’ve only 1 issue with pet dmg style. Afaik pet dmg do not proc reflect. Statis can be done with summoner as well right?

[chrome sable]

It is gonna be nice to see Towerfall getting nerfed soon, definitely needs it 😅

[chrome sable]

Yup! It's just Chrono spec with assassin gear

[void mica]

you were one of the people I saw doing too much damage in my instance 😭

[glossy solstice]

Kinda weird to see ang 2.0 getting pushed before towerfall/crit/deity/ward nerfs. Not to mention hands of selene are still busted

[coral comet]

Dudes an absolute beast

[chrome sable]

It's coming with Ang2.0 as far as we know

[glossy solstice]

Why wait though

[oak elm]

The current format of the Apollyon event feels punishing for Orna players. It encourages excessive grinding and, rather than bridging the gap, it actually widens the divide between newer players and high AL players..

[orchid atlas]

No, not really. I took long hiatuses and as a result, fell behind.

[coral comet]

Theres a cap coming soon

[void mica]

^

[tame locust]

1. no need to ruffle everything twice
2. balance patches take a ton of community interaction and time. that would delay anguish further if done before

[oak elm]

That's good news 🙂

[tame locust]

beguiled X/Y are not aimed at new players (nor accessible, really). could you help me understand this point?

[oak elm]

I can understand that, but it's only once a year.

[void mica]

Think they meant newer/not 100AL T10/11's. That's how I understood it

[oak elm]

I'm not a new player either 😛 , but right now there are many players in the community dealing 10 million damage and still getting zero drops.

[tame locust]

okay, fair enough. I will remind everyone that there is a standard T10 Beguiled Apollyon for earlier T10

https://playorna.com/codex/raids/beguiled-apollyon/

[chrome sable]

It is early in the month and the update was today, I'd say it'll slow down a lot over the next few days as well

[tame locust]

yup, that'd be the cap convo above. please expect something tomorrow

[coral comet]

It has slowed down already from what i saw

[void mica]

I think the cap will be good for everyone, doing almost 100m damage and getting 2-5 pieces of loot doesn't feel very nice when everyone else was doing 300m+
Looking at you @chrome sable 👀

[polar rivet]

Im not sure if deity ursa/ara wrb performance is op btw. At 70AL and fairly endgame geared. I can do 100-150m in 3 mins if not one shot by wrb ulti or reflect. And still see pol doing 200-300m+ in several wrbs

Might be op for endless/gauntlets/tower but idk the performance of other classes

[chrome sable]

I just want that lute for the collection ❤️

[oak elm]

Really looking forward to it, and truly appreciate it.

[void mica]

^^^

[coral comet]

Who is doing 300m? What class?

I gotsta know

[glossy solstice]

Do we have an estimated time for ang 2.0 to get here? I've been thinking about swapping to deity for a bit for those juicy anguish 50 towers

[void mica]

think Beo Towerfall

with Stasis

[coral comet]

Ahh

[void mica]

not the thread for that, but expect it in May.

[coral comet]

20 seconds

19

..

[scarlet ridge]

So I guess now I should be doing as much damage to a Beguiled Polly as I can, or should I be splitting as much damage as I can between the available raids?

[deep oriole]

The cap fixes everything I think and should be good to go

All the concerns im seeing are valid before the fix but the fix is coming

[scarlet ridge]

Oh guess I should have scrolled up some

[coral comet]

Probably just try to hit cap tomorrow as many as possible:/

[void mica]

if you can't do 200m damage I suggest wait for the cap tomorrow. Do as much as you can as it's split between all people who hit

[deep oriole]

Odie been workin hard gotta let the guy sleep 😅 mans on it fix is coming

[void mica]

Psh it's only 10:30 for 'im

nothing for a dev

[winter sage]

I’m actually kind of thinking it’s not productive to try and define what is “early t10” vs what is not. A level 226, 0 AL Beo has advantages that a level 240, 20 AL Heretic does not—and both will likely lose to the level 245, because the latter has Ultima.

Trying to draw a line on what is or is not “early t10” seems futile to me.

[coral comet]

He went out to buy 🍼

I hope he comes back..

[coral comet]

Oh i can outdamage a beo 225 with hara 242 because hara friggen rocks

[winter sage]

But you can also nuke yourself. xD

[coral comet]

After turn 7 im a potato tho :/

[coral comet]

Thats the best part !!

[old lava]

Which makes the catch up game possible. Legit players burn out, quit, take breaks. Basically 4 yrs playing and took a 9 month break but I'm still #22 global. It's not impossible. If you're casual, then you're casual. It applies to any game. Time investment will take you further. Anyone can compete against another player if they invest the time. Anyways, not a discussion for this thread.

[polar rivet]

Agreed over my 4 years + game i took break for around 2 years and im still 70 al

[chrome sable]

I managed to hit top 500 global and AL 80 in under a year so catch up is very possible

[spring hearth]

gentlemen of ascension levels, we meet again

[torpid jasper]

I'm at 40 ALs and about 11 months of play

Actually, exactly 11 months today

3 months almost exactly from start to t10, another 8 for AL40

My kingdom is a big part of that. Taught me a lot and I sought out a a lot on my own

Also, memory hunting. Love memory hunting.

And 4-man runs on 3x UW portals when we found them. Massive scroll gains

[gloomy crystal]

Hell'o ppl, is there any use for Beguiled Staff (0, X or Y) in which it is better than a good kaladanda, imagination, Ymir Zaltys or arisen Ithra's?

[torpid jasper]

I don't think so

Maybe in live pvp for foresight

[gloomy crystal]

Kool, then I won't roll for it at the monument

[grave jackal]

I hope we got the core of this 1,8k message discussion.
If any player (or Dev😉 ) needs a summary look no further
https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1369165287475249182

[coral comet]

Amazing

[sturdy aurora]

Let's lower the spawn rate, i'd love to be one of the only few people have ornate helmet/cowl Y

[spring hearth]

possibly, if you still using fey unstable magic in raids, then it could be a 25% boost

[gloomy crystal]

🤔 hardly ever, sadly

[cunning dirge]

Maybe a "boost" to some tri-ele i guess but i don't think builds around that are good... Who knows tho

[cinder wren]

Yikes, so this is a grindfest into oblivion now? I know that this might be an unpopular opinion but couldnt this event be a GPS content? Just like with the ones we had last year where the new zones appear (Fallen heroes of avalon, regular mimic invasion etc spawns). But instead of spawning regular mobs do a raid spawns... This would make the game GPS based again...and definitely more fun 😄

[cunning dirge]

Ewwwww

I hate riftbreaks so bad

[bitter bluff]

So, in th eBalor gateway we have two different raids, polly X and polly Y
They drop alternative gear, Y is not better than X, it is just different thing.
Given this I do not understand why:

• max loot calculation is different between the two
• spawn rate is different

Also, the damage system was changed because it was not fair to have people that could quickly reach the XX% cap, while other did not have time to get there, but now the loot is dropped based on the % of damage made on the same raid, which basically leads to the original issue.

At this point, I would suggest to just have the following:
same spawn rate for X and Y
let the Y loot be calculatesd as per Polly X: max loot at a certain damage

In the end it is just another way to have an own wrb scroll, just free.

[bitter bluff]

A possible solution would be:
I am a small player and I reach the damage cap in XX minutes: I get full loot
I am a bigger player and I reach 10x damage cap in XX minutes: I get 2x full loot
I am a very big player and i reach 50x damage cap in XX minutes: I get 3x full loot

[raw berry]

Huh, odd

This isn't looking like 2X 1Y, it's looking like 5X 0Y

[rain flame]

it's because raids die and resume, sometimes Y on the map you see 3 pieces and X 2.

[raw berry]

Okay but even if they die and respawn sequentially, in an X - X - Y order, the maximum disparity should be 4Xs to 1Y

Though I expected them to die and respawn in bulks of 2X 1Y, which would also not have this happen

[zinc geyser]

Yeah that's a bug. Hopefully it gets fixed today. Maybe drop your video in the bug report?

[raw berry]

Bit busy rn, I'll do it later

[turbid gale]

Feel like I'm hitting a lot of raids and not even getting the raid drops. That or the server is super far behind

[turbid gale]

Unless you get literally 0 if you don't beat everyone in the damage pool?

[cinder wren]

Having both Alfa and Beta tests isn't there a way for events like this to land stable upon release?

[stark sonnet]

No cause this is a volume issue and beta doesn't have 300 al players

[cinder wren]

Introducing new interesting gear behing weird waygate-like "world" boss that spawns randomly is kinda super meh tbh :/
At this point i would rather buy full ornate set in game shop.
Oh also forgot to mention, you need mats to craft the scroll to get into new waygate. New people get super confused 😄

[static lance]

I dunno about the others, but events arent put through Patreon Beta before they run.
But yeah, Trex brings up a very good point. Both Alpha and Beta would have significantly lower participation compared to Main/Production/Live.

[stark sonnet]

You also don't have people putting out 400m DMG on beta so it comes out way more balanced

[cinder wren]

But those are like super obvious things that pop-up first thing when you start the event.
The first restrictions were obvious, the raid limit dmg, spawns

[stark sonnet]

I agree, I miss the 25% cap fights in comparison at least you knew what you would get by the DMG you did. Now you do 100m DMG and get 0-10 proofs worth of reward

[cinder wren]

I do understand that the volume is different, but almost every revorked/new event that is launched without "sanity check" on either alfa/beta is being fixed first days live, this should be a clue

Its just a bit sad. This could be an amazing GPS content.

[keen thunder]

not all event needs to be gps based imo, having both is fine

[cinder wren]

Which one was GPS based lately?

[static lance]

Without knowing exactly what the work cycle is, and how close to "deadlines" (the day before it starts, at the latest) updates and updates to events are, it may be difficult to hand it over to testers before it launches. That may very well be a thing Northern Forge desires, but isn't doable at the moment.

[zinc geyser]

It kinda is you need to go around to dungs or world monsters to farm the mats to get into the event

[keen thunder]

im not saying lately, but there are some as you previously mentioned on your previous messages

[cinder wren]

You totally missed the point of my previous message then. Correct, it was kinda GPS based, but instead farming low mobs for scrolls, it could be just a WRB in those GPS based areas. IMHO, that would be better as for GPS content.

[keen thunder]

not all event needs to be gps based imo

im not even saying its kinda gps based 😅

[cinder wren]

Having a static Aethric, we could really use some more GPS based content. Game was more fun before WV and all the "static-play-from-home" gameplay

[turbid gale]

What's the point of hitting the events when people do 500m damage? Lol

[coral comet]

Is there no cap yet? Was supposed to be one implemented soon

[turbid gale]

Nothing yet, seeing. 250-500m damages. Not worth the time for one round at that point. Would rather the old system with way more spawns if this was to stay this way

[coral comet]

OK guess it hasn’t been updated yet

[turbid gale]

Hopefully soon then I might change my mind lol.

[tame locust]

It’s important to note that these tweaks are being made due to a playerbase in the thousands. We don’t have thousands of alpha testers, so event parameters are not really feasible for studios to perfect, most of the time

Tweaking for volume and player satisfaction is not really something that can be sanity checked

What is more important for studios to do is adjust things to ensure players are being heard and can get the most out of an event

[cinder wren]

The overall idea of the event with Apo Y spawning as it is could be sanity checked on the drawing board
The initial 50% limit, even in seeds of 8 players was just not a good idea and could be caught earlier

There is no need for high volume for tweaks like that

[cinder wren]

If the players could get a spawn in the wild, they could probably get more and could get back to the boss that was not killed for example.
But this is just a draft idea that's been on my and my friends mind for some time

[north narwhal]

I'm personally fine with competition for free raids, even last year when I could barely deal a mil, it was fine when hype died down, got lots of ornates and mats, this year, its almost same BUT I dont get as annoyed with disappearing raids, "raid not found" messages and raids being already dead when I see them

if the damage caps can be adjusted it would be perfect in terms of game feel, still competition for free raids, but without annoying tech restrictions

[fluid light]

I think some competition is fine, but risking an event because of a few AL200s wont feel nice for the vast majority of players

[cinder wren]

It used to be a GPS game and players were rewarded for traveling
Now we are adjusting raid limits so players from across the globe can be rewarded for joining a fictional wayvessel

[north narwhal]

I tried multiple times since the change and never had a major issue with "200al" players, but that might be time zone advantage

[bitter bluff]

Anyway: until yesterday, 2.8M damage and full loot.
Today: 50M damage, two drops.
Some math still needs to be fixed...

[fluid light]

Ive seen it get worse, but im not testing hourly to see if its a trend or if im just unlucky

[tame locust]

it's still very much a GPS game. Games do not need 100% GPS events to still be considered a GPS game. this was one of our most popular events for a reason, which is why folk are passionate here

[tame locust]

#patch-notes be sure to watch patch notes for when the update drops

[cinder wren]

Because it's free raids content 🙂
You are the king here anyway, just trying to share a different point of view with an idea that could bring the old times spirit.

I just still do remember when you were trying to bring back some more movement and traveling to the game and then amities happened.

The new wild areas, zones, system is truly amazing! It just need some more Oomph, twist, rewards, challenge - WRB's 🙂

[tame locust]

of course - the GPS stuff is core and important. it's what makes this game unique

but i'm still going to experiment with lots of different mechanics 🙂

[cinder wren]

I hope so! All the best Odie, keep it up, surprise us 😄
No pressure.

Or just give us Orna Classic 🤣

[bitter bluff]

I wait for it ❤️

[worthy flint]

Maybe i'm a little late for this.
With capping and inifinite health, what is the point entering raids with others?
Instead of this, how about restricting turns per raid like 7 for t10 and 5 for t11 and localize the raid with 1 infinite health instance for each version. After a set of turns, u get kicked out of battle, received rewards and repeat for 30 mins. No raid respawn, no need to sync with others or a timer and maybe have a leaderboard for dmg dealt.
I'm not native english speaker but hope u guys get my ideas

[coral comet]

Different classes have different turns to setup, it wouldnt be fair

[winter sage]

As a person who uses an outsized amount of setup in raids (Ive joked that I don’t get to max DPT until turn 30), that’s going to be an issue regardless of whether the “competitive” factor is a turn limit, a time limit, or just someone hitting harder on turn 1.

I don’t think that issue is addressable tbh.

Without very specific design to limit it, a player whose ASG can nuke twice on turn 1 is simply always going to get out of the gate faster than a player who wants to cast Jinn’s Talent and Wyvern Speed, eat a Berserk Mushroom, wait for DC or Arisen Imagination procs, etc.

There’s simply no realistic way to address that, so personally I’m not sure it’s even worth discussing as anything more than a factual “this is the way it is”

[bitter bluff]

It's the same concept I wrote a few posts above

[fluid light]

Having to cast wyvern speed II 4 times

[rugged belfry]

If you need mag, you can use wyvern speed, it's 90%

[winter sage]

Mood.

I’ve had to tap Wyvern Speed I three times to get the Mag boost lol

[worthy flint]

It's not about being fair but being fast with as much dmg as possible like last year. Raid was dying too fast last year so having a set of turn would give others chance to deal dmg and receive rewards

[fluid light]

I dont 🥲
But i use warcry instead heheh

[worthy flint]

Iirc we dont have any mechanism related to turn count so this could be a time to explore new playstyle

[winter sage]

I feel like the design space is kind of muddled this year, because in a sense you’re right. At its heart it’s a speedrun.

HOWEVER. it gets weird when we consider that a lot of the gear this year has passives specific to Heretic—which is absolutely a class that wants a few turns to set up. (As Hera, I’d actually want more setup than I use on Deity, since Hera has lower defenses and doesn’t get automatic DC procs.)

It’s a bit strange to lock gear for one of the most setup-heavy classes behind a style of raiding that favours coming out of the gate swinging.

[worthy flint]

My idea is that ppl get to do enough dmg to receive at least a reward not all, but u could do it as many times as u want. Localizing raid so u dont have to sync with others to see raids and set turns to remove a timer so u can get back to deal dmg asap

[modest moss]

I mean, the new style of raids isn’t as impacted by setup. Everyone is setting up now so they can maximize their damage while the raid is up. I’d go as far as saying heretic is one of the classes that benefits the most from this style of raid

[north narwhal]

nag brew 🗿

[torpid jasper]

Heretic doesn't get to have 300k-1mil ward in raids

[swift jungle]

Beo is currently still winning because Towerfall can pump out absurd damage, after that I think Spiked Shield Gilga is probably 2nd?

[drowsy sparrow]

Hertic is an under powered classline that ONLY NEEDS BUFFFS

Sorry bro. But I have only seen that rhetoric for the last 4 years

[torpid jasper]

Heretic did great at raids before and has only gotten buffed, but it does not do well in some other content (like pvp). Curious if that has changed in metrics post rework

But obv towerfall and spiked shield are way stronger for stuff like this

[north narwhal]

I still stand for diminishing returns curve when it comes to raid rewards
dynamically rescale difference between 1 and 100 mil to be 20% rewards and 45% rewards, closer to previous damage caps

[drowsy sparrow]

Respectfully. I got owned in pvp by heratics in the recent bof turny. If you are saying that the scaling on heratic is worse than other classes. I agree. But that is and has been an outlier that Odie is aware of and is working towards a solution

[torpid jasper]

I am only saying what I said

[drowsy sparrow]

Stronger is not the same as easier

[torpid jasper]

Don't ? me lol

There's nothing to read into

Your experience in bof is a data point for sure but does not have much to do with what I said

I just used pvp as an example

[modest moss]

Magic boost has a 90% success rate instead of 75%, might be a good alternative if you don’t need atk and dex buffs

[drowsy sparrow]

Sounds good bro. Sorry if you feel targeted on this conversation. But I despise when a event feedback form devolves into looking at other classes having greener grass

[winter sage]

Wyvern Speed I has a 90% success rate of Mag and Dex , rolled independently. If you want Mag, the odds are exactly the same as Mag Boost. You just have a chance of Dex too.

The only reason to use Mag Boost instead of Wyvern Speed I would be if you're really starved for mana

[torpid jasper]

I don't feel targeted, just wanna make it clear that I am not trying to make any broader statements. Just said what I wrote down, that's all

[modest moss]

I always forget wyv 1 is a thing lol, my bad

[winter sage]

All good lol

[trim belfry]

#patch-notes message

[swift jungle]

Odie, please could you tell us what that damage limit is?

[past flint]

https://tenor.com/view/it-is-a-mystery-butt-head-mike-judge's-beavis-and-butt-head-s2-e3-it's-a-riddle-gif-11206365824536170941

[winter sage]

https://tenor.com/view/legend-of-zelda-nes-its-a-secret-to-everybody-gif-16975864584225764314

[north narwhal]

"dynamic damage limit" sounds hot

[winter sage]

Big "move fast and break things" energy in that phrase, somehow

(/lh)

[past flint]

I did 20m on that one knight, we'll see what happens lol

[swift jungle]

I've been doing 12m

(His HP is 11,925,000 according to the codex)

[past flint]

yeah we have 13/20/26 currently

[swift jungle]

I seem to be having a bug where the raids aren't despawning/respawning

I left and rejoined the instance so I'll see if that fixes it

[modest moss]

Have been having that on occasion as well

[swift jungle]

I got rewards from the first Y I hit while it was still on the screen despite expiring 6 minutes before that

[swift jungle]

I got 3 proofs of felling from that, I think

[past flint]

5 for me

[swift jungle]

Hmm

[hasty nebula]

fwiw i got 7 proof from the first Y

[past flint]

you were the 26m

interesting

[hasty nebula]

I know, thats why i posted

[past flint]

o rip lol my bad

[swift jungle]

Very strange

Although not bad for any of us

[past flint]

nah much better

[rugged belfry]

So 110M is the 100% ?

[past flint]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[swift jungle]

Uh, no

[past flint]

we did a combined total of 60m damage

[swift jungle]

I have no idea where 110M came from in this convo lol

[past flint]

seph did 43% of the damage but got 8 proofs

[rugged belfry]

No where actually

[past flint]

I did 33, and got 5 proofs

[trim belfry]

I dont think it scales of combined damage, that pretty much what the latest patchnote tried to solve, no?

[swift jungle]

Yeah it never scaled off of combined damage

[past flint]

i thinking so yes

[hasty nebula]

Is the 3 minute issue still around tho? That was the most annoying issue for me

[swift jungle]

The issue prior to this server patch was that damage was split based on % done

[swift jungle]

Yes

[tame locust]

issue?

[swift jungle]

Er wait, I misread that it said "issue".

There's a timer, it is 3 minutes. It's at the top of the screen sometimes

It vanishes if you open/close the kingdom menu but reappears if you fight any raid or monster

[winter sage]

I can see how some people would interpret that as being "based on combined damage." Like, if I consistently deal 3mil, how many rewards I get is dependent on whether others combine for 12mil or 200mil.

[past flint]

did 20m on the one with 117m damage by one player and received no proofs and 6 items

fwiw

[swift jungle]

Proofs of felling might actually not be a good marker 😆

[rugged belfry]

What about exp ?

[past flint]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-been-going-about-this-all-wrong-frustrated-i-messed-up-aw-shucks-facepalm-gif-16761581

38m exp for that one

[swift jungle]

If you knew how much exp you got from soloing one, maybe? I genuinely don't know

[past flint]

whereas previously it was 400m~

[rugged belfry]

Oh well I was rather around 700M

[winter sage]

I was using Exp earlier. I think Orns is probably the "best" indicator.

[past flint]

700m / 8 proofs from one apollyX

[rugged belfry]

I remember getting 700M xp for full run solo

Maybe item drops are just decorrelated from other rewards

[swift jungle]

@ Odie, should bug reports about Apollyon Y spawning be in this event thread or #1084635587715281028 ?

[tame locust]

bugs should never go in discussion threads

[swift jungle]

Fair point

[past flint]

268m damage
8% from me
700m exp @ 8% is roughly 50m~

that number sort of checks out ish?

[tame locust]

unless it's the Beta bugs discussion thread, i suppose

[past flint]

idk the dynamics

[tame locust]

egh, that looks like 2 people triggered the spawn in parallel.

i could add a lock

but do you all want me to

[swift jungle]

No, those are two old spawns

You can tell by the cooldown

7 minutes and 10 minutes

[winter sage]

I know doing exactly 50% to a t10 raid like TMM often gets me around 350mil exp, and hitting a 40% damage cap on a t10 raid often offers 200-250mil. For my use provides an easy baseline of comparison.

I was routinely getting <12mil exp on Polly, lol.