Two-Handed Weapon Patch Discussion

[stray wharf]

the original skill could also crit, at 5%

[tepid narwhal]

94-6 on my first round of data collecting

But I was playing RS, with a base 5% crit chance. Let me test on GS

85-15 on GS, that must have been some crazy RNG. I’ll do the opposite test, see if I get any non-crits while having 95% base crit rate

200/200 crits at 95% crit chance, so 5% it’s at least 5%

[karmic hull]

good to know

[tepid narwhal]

200/200 at 94% crit chance as well.
Immediately got a miss at 93

I’ll keep testing 94% later, but Id still bet on 5% since I don’t think we have skills with 6% crit chance

[dense lion]

Likely 5%, but we have 4% and 8% skills so its not impossible 🤔

[amber maple]

Will upward strike 1/2 get a face lift before the two handed changes ship on the 4th?

Will cleave/slice/crush still not respect the weapon enchantment of the weapon and always be physical?

[tepid narwhal]

This is the most disappointing one imo. Means you can’t trust them to farm event dungeons because of mons like the AGG

[amber maple]

It is a weird interaction. No other physical skill in the game can ignore the element the weapon is enchanted by

[mossy dew]

Atleast cd and avidity and efalacious counteract that to some extent

Beo and deities will have some problem

[amber maple]

Do they struggle to clear content that these skills work with? I haven’t seen horde be an issue for deities

[hollow island]

That's how physical tagged skills work like Lunge and Perfect Shot. My cold enchanted YBF gets immuned by Training Cactus which is immune to cold.

[mossy dew]

No like specially in regards to physical only aoe skills like cleave and slice

[amber maple]

*No other used end game skill for end game content

[cerulean aspen]

Anyone know Envy M1?
Cleave is 1.8
Slice is 2.4
If I’m not mistaken

[hollow island]

You don't use perfect shot?

[amber maple]

I don’t understand what you are saying? Are you saying : Beo and dieity need to have another physical specific aoe clear content in addition to their other options?

[amber maple]

Not in my end game anguish builds. Maybe in a horde carry if I cant trust someone to use stun dart? Mostly I just use stun dar cause I want to use a skill with more pen then perfect shot

[mossy dew]

No like they won't be the best users of cleave/slice that's all

[amber maple]

Yes I agree. All classes will have a hard time with physical only skill. Beo and deity arent singled out as the only ones that are affected

[dense lion]

Well they have vesta and swansong

[amber maple]

I just don’t understand. Are you asking for them to be better than other classes at using this skill?

[rocky terrace]

I think is 1, I will test it later

[cerulean aspen]

Thanks 🫡

[amber maple]

I checked the upward strike skill and the defend skill is interesting. It is hard to come up with apples to apples comparison for the damage reduction. It seems like the wall amnity doesn’t improve the defense stance? Can anyone else confirm that?

Also only hitting 1 foe is sad to see when you take a turn to wind up.

The damage does feel very nice at anguish 21

[inner crow]

That seems odd. I know something about the defending mechanic was changed because of beo bastion cheese, but I'm not sure what. I also feel like if the defending mechanic is strong enough, semiaoe might not even be needed. It could make a really good anguish raiding build with fey gear.

[dense lion]

I just tested upward strike 2 a bit. Maybe ok for raiding, but i really dislike it for horde clearing, especially since youre open to debuffs for one turn and may not even hit more than 1 target

[hollow island]

Two-handed Weapons update is releasing on February 4th according to the February events video. #game-announcements message

[tepid narwhal]

Got a non crit at 94%, so 5% it is

[rocky terrace]

My OHB(Covyn's Great Scythe) still has Upward Strike as a skill instead of Aglostrike II

[radiant crow]

Hey! Can you test brilliant lights 2 again if possible

[dense lion]

I think there were no changes there

And it crits

[radiant crow]

If it stays that way it will be the meta xd

Since you don't even have all buffs

I guess is a good meta since is event locked weapon

[dense lion]

And low as fugg m1 too

[radiant crow]

Yeah multistrikes

[dense lion]

Looking very good, i bet you can just waltz through the dragons event with it costa

[inner crow]

So not good for anguish, but maybe a good second chance "oh %$!*" button for heretic in pvp

[dense lion]

Yeah youll probably get zeroed out by cockatrices in high ang 😂

[rocky terrace]

It may be the best weapon for Heretic Towers

Attacks every opponent right??

[shadow sinew]

I highly doubt it. The damage above is with no less than 4 rounds of buffs (MM, Snotra, two casts of bloodloss or bloodloss and mana seep)

With fewer buffs you would have less than 1/6 the power. I am probably high ballin' it too

It is very good for dungeons. Meta there for sure if using corvus, as in the image

[dawn valley]

Last we heard @dense lion only had a level 1 normal quality staff I think? (confirm?)

So if that's what a bad staff can do a quality staff should be much more capable

[dense lion]

Lvl 1 staff

[shadow sinew]

I certainly see potential. Maybe also in towers.

[dense lion]

Not only the staff is bad but the wielder too lol

[shadow sinew]

No way I am not farming for one hahaha

lol

[dawn valley]

I wonder if it's better or worse than Swansong for Realmshifters

[shadow sinew]

Is Swansong one of those "uses the best of your att or mag" abilities? Or is it mag-based?

[dense lion]

Swansong is definitely better for rs

Because trevs is mage only 🫠

[dawn valley]

Swansong is hybrid that uses magic buffs

[dense lion]

Uses both to calculate dmg but its boosted by mag buffs only

[dawn valley]

It's hybrid like Verse

[shadow sinew]

I see. Like Lusus Naturae or yeah, Verse

[dawn valley]

But there's an amity to make every skill hybrid...

I legit have a Realmshifter Dorado AV2 build and a Windtamer shield build. It's super janky but magic can be forced 😆

I just don't know the stats on Brilliant Lights II. I don't think I'll have a good guesstimate until Tuesday when the patch goes to live

[dense lion]

Wont a. Gandring be the best choice? It crits, its entirely att based and since it hits everyone it will proc aviditiy like craycray

[dawn valley]

I said I have an AV2 and Windtamer shield build, I didn't come here to make the best choices

[shadow sinew]

that's the spirit!

[dense lion]

Fair but i was referring to swansong lol

[dawn valley]

Arcane only vs typeless damage

Gandring will be higher damage but there are a lot of arcane immune monsters

Ah, but unlike the Swansong the Arisen Trev Archistaff is actually only able to be equipped by mages.

So that meme dream is dead

[shadow sinew]

Psico pato did say that several posts above

(love your name BTW)

[dense lion]

Aww ty!

[dawn valley]

I thought Golduck was saying Brilliant Lights was mage only

But yeah I see that now

[dense lion]

Love ur profile pic, a true picture of what looks like the goodest of bois

[shadow sinew]

He was a handful, and amongst all those things also a very good boi

[rocky terrace]

The advantage that mages will always have over Melee classes is the elementless spells

[dense lion]

Ive used windtamer as gilga to farm jocs in the past weeks. Feels like im forcing my gilga to act as a mage and that sucks. Thats why id Love upward strike 2 to have no windup. Mages have a huge advantage here. They can hit 3 targets with the shield (thus can use celestial weapons) or they can just use the new vestas. Meanwhile melees are stuck with a 2 turn up-to-3 skill

Plus what @rocky terrace just said. Vestas (and swansong) are elementless and they criiittttt

[shadow sinew]

out of the loop here: isn't sweep still the wyrmhunting meta?

[dawn valley]

I still use dragon element sweep

[shadow sinew]

I use the shield out of necessity. Never really considered it an "advantage"

[rocky terrace]

And Gandring has the worst stats out of the 3 weapons from arisen mammon

[shadow sinew]

AV4 is definitely going to be an improvement over Windtamer Shield, I think. It comes with its challenges though. 400 mana per cast is no small amount.

[dense lion]

1 recharge amity will 100% nullify this

[shadow sinew]

Maybe. Though I can't really one-shot things at full mana

As per usual, it is a precarious balancing act with blue-lining

[dense lion]

Go beo

[shadow sinew]

(AL 75 in HoA)

[dense lion]

Jk lol

[shadow sinew]

hahaha

yeah, needs saying I'm looking at things from the Heretic lens

[frozen fog]

It really seems like Gilga and Realmshifter, but Realm in particular, got the short end of the stick here. Seeing how our choice is between an arcane skill with M1 = 1 or a skill that trades 35% of our attack for 65% of our base 0 mag.

I doubt either will better than sweep for higher anguish horde. Arcane isn't horrible for boss but Arisen Gandering's lack of ward is for higher anguished runs.

[frozen fog]

Do either of those not include Selene's hands though?

[rocky terrace]

Eh, You don't use Arisen Gandring or Sweep in anguish Tbh, but I agree that Arisen Gandring doesn't have good stats

[frozen fog]

I sweep anguish 50

Swansong could very well be better still. Just won't be gaining as much penetration other classes are here.

[rocky terrace]

Stats and how many buffs do u use??

[frozen fog]

Overall excited to play around with it and think it'll be an improvement over current AoE options. Just in comparison to Mag based and Hybrid based classes our options lack in multiple aspects.

Att ↑ + ↑↑, Gunnr, zerk I + II

AL 150 btw

[last elbow]

whats your avg dungeon time with that setup if you know?

[frozen fog]

Typical clear is just over 2 min and a clean run can be sub 2 min.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Svx29RUKBa0?si=XVl6cFU5bQiwInPo

I have a variant that uses Lynx Lab for hard modes but it's less dex and ward. The biggest drawback to be however is RNG from Zerk II from weapon proc. Requires much more attention. Where as the above build is very consistent / mindless.

[shadow sinew]

Hold up - so you already do the most difficult content with a build that clears the entire screen? Then what's the problem?

[last elbow]

Do you end up just CS-ing zerks?

[rocky terrace]

Basic attack is better at that point

[frozen fog]

Riposte III to supplement ward turns and chance at t.att ↑ or CS if there's a 2nd target still standing / bigger HP zerks like A. Mammon.

[frozen fog]

I was speaking on behalf Realm's (Gilga too though their base mag will help some) in general. From a perspective comparing what is gained by all the classes with this update.

We're getting spec-less AoE like everyone else but gaining penetration from increased M1 on an AoE skill has huge implications on anguish Horde.

[shadow sinew]

I suspect this will be a "we'll have to agree to disagree" stopping point, but I cannot fathom a balance update that gives everyone something positive. Unlike most things, balance is a 0-sum game.

Unless you are saying that the two-handed weapon fixes themselves are not as beneficial to all classes. Maybe! For me the above still applies but I admit my position is shakier there.

[dawn valley]

My understanding has always been that Odie perfers mage classes to have access to better AoE than melee

[frozen fog]

That's what I was trying to say. Update is welcomed improvement for Realms still that I'm excited for. The benefit is much less so compared mage and hybrid classes though. If that's a balance decision I'd be surprised.

[frozen fog]

Yeah, I recall that statement when sweep was added.

[dawn valley]

In the Patreon part of the beta there were no melee full AoE offhand abilities

Envy was added for the open beta

[frozen fog]

I thought the current state of things was that mage skills were the best AoE. Also that hybrid classes had the best penetration via Selene hands. So an update that further that gapped doesn't seem necessary from a balance perspective is all.

[dawn valley]

Where does the penetration comment come from btw? Swansong in beta has pretty awful penetration

And (from my understanding) so does Brilliant Lights

[frozen fog]

😲
Blessed be for whoever lobbied for that then.

[dawn valley]

👋 lol

[frozen fog]

I thought Konq stated it was on par with verse I.

[dawn valley]

I don't think he did. Swansong in the live game is slightly worse than Verse 1. In beta it's tuned down even further

[frozen fog]

Well, that very well may be what I'm missing.

I also seen people refer to Brilliant Lights as low pen compared to Swansong.

[shadow sinew]

I think BL2 is in line with most other multi-hit skills in M1

I.e. - it's bad

[dawn valley]

I don't have an Arisen Trev Archistaff so I can do zero Brilliant Lights testing

[frozen fog]

So same as envy

[dawn valley]

If this is the case, the M1 would be 1

Envy is M1=1.1

[frozen fog]

I'm gonna just crawl away now... carry on y'all.

[dawn valley]

There's not a huge difference between 1 and 1.1, lol

It's ok

Brilliant Lights does have the advantage of being typeless I think

[hardy urchin]

how many turns is bl2?

[dawn valley]

1

[hardy urchin]

great

thanks

[shadow sinew]

yeah, to my surprise and despite its name, brilliant lights is not Holy

[frozen fog]

and maybe just remove element from envy / add another skill at some point without element

[hardy urchin]

i guess its more of slamming lights at your opponent

[dawn valley]

My entire pitch to Odie for Envy was "please make it AoE, the Gandring is a bad weapon and Arcane and low M1 make it balanced"

[shadow sinew]

It's just "magic broken lightbulb"

[hardy urchin]

magic exploding lightbulbs

[shadow sinew]

'ere you go

[dawn valley]

It does have a cool animation

[hardy urchin]

main reason i like it is cuz it hits multiple times so it looks cooler heh

[frozen fog]

The thing about melee AoE is we need to tailor element to each dungeon type to optimize. I'd also accept a physical element skill since it's probably the best for overall coverage. If avoiding tailoring our element is intended.

[dawn valley]

Envy absolutely slaps in Underworld Portals at least

[shadow sinew]

My hot-take: we are arguing about magic or melee users having it better when in reality neither has good, spec-less, entire battlefied AoE. Only hybrid classes do in Swansong. We should stand united instead of divided!

[frozen fog]

Actually if other classes aren't getting someone M1 increase to AoE compared to realm I pretty much withdraw any criticism. I'll let my desires remain though, a boy can dream 😄.

[shadow sinew]

Actual magic classes will just have Despair XD

Swansong is not terrible in Heretic, but it isn't great either

[dawn valley]

Imo, hybrid has been way too heavily favored with skills/gear, partially leading the dominance of Deity and BeoH

[shadow sinew]

Probably about as good as it is in RS (completely uninformed opinion)

[dawn valley]

I do remember people asking how to play hybrid and the answer used to be "don't", but we've swung too far the other direction

[dawn valley]

You have slightly more attack than we do magic, but roughly yeah.

Though it benefiting from the same buffs as magic players already use is a slight advantage

[shadow sinew]

that is fair

I don't shoot myself in the foot using Snotra

well, not more than usual XD

[frozen fog]

That's more of a already acknowledged issue with Selene Hands more so then hybrid classes though

[shadow sinew]

Selene Hands don't come into the equation here, by virtue of us talking about a 2H weapon that cannot use that adornment

This is about how Swansong, the skill, is a hybrid skill. Meaning it is one of those that uses both your att and mag for damage calculations

So if you only have att or mag, you will deal way less damage than someone that has roughly balanced stats for both

RS and Heretic will be worse users of that offhand ability thus

Does that make sense?

[dawn valley]

Swansong just adds to the pile of hybrid toys that benefit hybrid classes best

Selene hands were one of the things that started that issue in the first place

So they're worth mentioning

[shadow sinew]

For sure. In the sense of us being able to say "too far gone in X direction".

I was just trying to say that my comment on hybrid users having the actual best access to spec-less AoE is not taking Selene Hands into account

[frozen fog]

For sure

Does anyone know what Despairs (Off-Hand) M1 is in beta?

[shadow sinew]

I haven't been able to test that. It seems decent.

[frozen fog]

That's why I wasn't including mage in my points.

Arcane isn't horrible for Boss and I was speaking specifically to anguish horde. Which most likely you'll be running boss dungeons for.

[shadow sinew]

Right

I think only Kraken and Fallen Gilga are immune, ignoring event mobs

Fallen Gilga can occassionally decide to ruin your day, but it is rare

Immortal Lord is resistant but has low HP

there's other who are resistant that shouldnt be an issue most of the time

[frozen fog]

A. Mammon

For res

Racul for early floor immune

[shadow sinew]

Right, but one can then swap to, say, GS4 and just finish it off, right?

oh yeah, Racul

so not bad but definitely worse than dragon 🤔

[frozen fog]

Id rather take my chance against Gilga then Beo

# of immunes is more an efficiency thing really.

Nidhoggs could swing me into preferring arcane

Current preference is physical obviously.

Realm and Heretic are also gaining our crit passives don't forget.

[dawn valley]

I didn't check it thoroughly but fairly lowered from live

I suppose I can check now real quick

[frozen fog]

I am excited to play around with Corvous horde.

Should be very solid.

[dawn valley]

I think it might be M1=2.2

[frozen fog]

Wow

So yeah, Mage's will be able to 1-shot zerks via AoE. Realm's avidity is a big plus though when there's guaranteed misses, 2nd chances and immunes.

Qatvana isnt the highest ward either.

[dawn valley]

The highest penetration skill coming out of this is Slice

Not full AoE, but worth mentioning

M1=2.4

[frozen fog]

Yeah but not true AoE

I see those as options with effect ward change will have on CS.

I'll be looking at slice + ravage for towers without a doubt.

[dawn valley]

I almost wonder if Ravage and Brilliant Lights were meant to be equivalent

[frozen fog]

Non-criting chance to hit extra targets vs true AoE that crits

[dawn valley]

If it wasn't so low M1 you might be able to get away with horde dungeon ravage stacking Parting Remark and Avidity

Both niche weapon from raid nobody cares about though

[frozen fog]

Stacking parting remark + advitity is how I run ang 25 horde currently

And towers for that matter

[cerulean aspen]

Using Envy with 30% avidity, parting remark, slash physical skill does really well for me in beta

[frozen fog]

The extra targets from ravage is what intrigues me but I'm afraid M1 will make it less viable for anguished towers.

[frozen fog]

How does it feel in norms though?

[dawn valley]

Awful

Although idk if Milky was talking about Slash or Envy since he said both

Running horde boss with Envy didn't feel great due to the sheer amount of immunities

[radiant crow]

It's worth to mf/df this?

For the 2handed patch

[dawn valley]

Do you have a good swansong?

[radiant crow]

I have a 192% swansong

[dawn valley]

Probably not then, I think

[radiant crow]

Gotcha

[dawn valley]

Swansong will be better in towers I think

Feral Claws are more interesting on RS with high attack and low magic

[dawn valley]

Actually on second thought, if you have the spare wolf's blood you might as well godforge it while the Dragons event is going on

[frozen fog]

Yeah, I think windtamer shield would probably be better for Deity. Less targets but can be used with Selene Hands.

[frozen fog]

Also valid advice

[radiant crow]

I'm not going to spend on it if I won't use

[dawn valley]

Yeah true, old reliable Windtamer is still very very good

[frozen fog]

Wolf blood's availability is going to increase greatly in a couple days

[radiant crow]

I mean i have 24k to spend but...

[frozen fog]

I mean, I have a tendency to over MF / DF / GF things through out my Orna career. So ¯⁠\⁠(⁠◉⁠‿⁠◉⁠)⁠/⁠¯

I mean, how can you really test something before GFing a high % one?

[dawn valley]

I'm with you there because I already had DFed Arisen Feral Claws

And prior to this update that was pointless

[last elbow]

i did this on a pair cause they are perfect and that reason was valid for me on 2/5/2022 when they dropped

and now here i am almost 3years later to the date with a small pay off 😂

📈

[amber maple]

Upward strike 1/2 is so close to a great skill for builds. Can either hit two as the floor. And a low chance for more? Hitting 1 or missing the one attack after two turns feels very bad

[shadow sinew]

semi-serious answer: Fomor gear?

Stacking chances raise the floor chance of 2+ targets. An entire set might even make it significant while also increasing damage.

Somewhere in the middle so that you don't crumple to a magical sneeze

[frozen fog]

I don't think it buffs dmg for skills that only have a chance to hit additional targets. Only true AoE that targets everyone.

[shadow sinew]

I believe it is the opposite, actually hahaha

but I could be wrong. I haven't tested that gear at all

[jaunty cedar]

Can Upward Strike just get to 1 turn? No use in defending with huge axe (soaking statuses and crap) it needs to cleave enemies.

[summer stream]

Did anyone manage to see how the rhada greatsword was looking with this update? I didn't get the chance to

[cerulean aspen]

For me personally it worked well. Everyone would die in 1 hit and if they had an immunity, avidity/parting remark would give me another turn and I would just use slash on them and they die.
A lot of the time, as the immune still counts as a crit, the Ai thinks it’s been hit and would prioritise ward skills, not always but more often than not with fallen Gilga. I don’t run anguish

Super unoptimised run with vanilla realmy/BoF and level 3 gandring

[frozen fog]

Fallen Gilga love's 1st turn buffing and I love them for it, especially in endless 😁

Have you given Realm Corvous a go? I imagine maintaining crit chain should be pretty reliable when AoEing. You could use perfect shot for the single mob clean-ups.

[hollow island]

Doesn't look like it changed

[summer stream]

Unfortunate, maybe someday I'll find a reason to use it.

[cerulean aspen]

When crit poise was 100% loved it. Now that it’s 97% I don’t think it’s worth it with the loss of avidity

[frozen fog]

I see, crit chain bonus seems nice. I do be loving me them turns though. Thanks for sharing!

[vale wharf]

It does not look like arisen gandring got a ward boost, max is 20 currently?

[primal holly]

Anyone tested slice?

[dawn valley]

Yeah, quite a few people

[bleak lake]

Btw, is crush not as good as slice or cleave? Haven't seen anyone test that

[dawn valley]

Crush is on a bad weapon

The skill might be good, the stats on the hammer are not

[bleak lake]

Hmm, ok

[inner crow]

it could be good if ward on enemies gets scaled in ang 2

[rocky terrace]

Is the update tomorrow??,
I wanted to highlight the poor stats of Arisen Gandring despite having very low ward (comparing it to the other two weapons, it is noticeable that it is worse)

||and that Covyn's Great Scythe still does not have Aglostrike II like the OHB ||

[hybrid quest]

I don't think it's finalised, since some thing still need to be adjusted besides what you mentioned, i.e. Arisen manablades( magic weapon but get a physical skill )
Unless the studio intentionally make it a trash

[cobalt swallow]

They said in the newsletter video it's dropping tomorrow on the 4th

[hybrid quest]

Okay...so we know there's always something trash in a patch, even they are rare

[cobalt swallow]

There's plenty of options tbh. Can't get em all even though I wish they touched those too

[void pine]

I just wish the 2H ability would make sense. Doesn't even have to be really good.

[dawn valley]

At least Slice is better than Doublecut (what they have right now)

[frozen fog]

I'm sure there'll be future adjustments after it goes live if something is obviously off / wrong. They also like to see the numbers from a bigger sample for some things.

[frozen fog]

🤣

Could be handy when fromorian warrior even rolls around.

Gandering is pretty meh, it'll be ok in regular horde for some dungeons. If you take into account we're gaining the ability to utilize BoF's attack passive Swansong should be able to provide higher penetration than sweep without its higher M1 being taken into account. It'll also have bigger M2 multipliers via crit, and it's freaking elementless damage (one build to rule them all). It'll be much better than sweep I think but less damage than envy. How much damage you do doesn't matter as long as it's enough.

[restive badge]

Exactly! I am sure Odie will continue the work to make more than 2 option (swangsong, feather) good... otherwise what was the point of that rework?
Also the feather weapon one with Slice, I can't wait to have it live, it will make my dungeons much faster.

[coarse forum]

https://tenor.com/view/majoras-mask-majora-zelda-final-day-gif-26658556

[shadow sinew]

cue discordant Termina town music

[restive badge]

not sure when the patch is happening but I have definitely eagerly waited this update on 2H more than any other patch last year in orna... I fully hope I can chain much faster dungeons this way and not get bored like I do with CS right now with all the 2 by 2 kill on a 4 mob wave 😄

[mossy dew]

Envy all the way

[restive badge]

hummmm

slice all the way instead no?

[mossy dew]

For gilga envy is good atleast in non anguish

[restive badge]

Ah I see, I am Deity 😉

[mossy dew]

Gilga at heart

Deity rn too

[restive badge]

I used to be, then I had to face the truth... Deity is simply better for almost everything. Oh well, gotta play the meta not to be frustated 😛

[arctic granite]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-simpsons-now-we-play-the-waiting-game-gif-16327789852622540331

[restive badge]

And endless on Gilga.. UH... lol

make Gilga endless with orns gear doable to floor 400 witout 200AL and I switch back 😛

[mossy dew]

Gotta play what you enjoy games are supposed to be fun afterall

[restive badge]

true

On another note about Slice, did anybody try let's say anguish 30 with Slice? Is it working for horde then? or we encounter some issues? (with DUrsa?)

[coarse forum]

fitting to once it hits live

ang25 anyway

[rocky terrace]

Slice works for Anguish 50

[dense lion]

Managed ang50 with gursa but its very dependant on luck

Irl luck

[inner crow]

How does slice stack against cleave? I have a ~180 crook and wondering if it's better over feathers for medium anguish party play

I tried searching for comparisons but searching in a thread is a nightmare

[last elbow]

TLDR slice is better than cleave

[amber maple]

Better m1 from what knight said

[inner crow]

Darn... I wonder if it's still worth it with the petrify immunity on the early floors. But, with all the slots feathers has for goat eyes maybe that's enough

[amber maple]

Gorgon’s eyes right?

[dawn valley]

Yeah, goat eyes are just for Son of Odin ( )

[bleak lake]

Maybe cleave weapons (since most are hybrid I think) are a bit better for beoH exclusively than weapons with slice? 🤔

[dawn valley]

I think there's a solid chance of that tbh.

At least they're definitely more of an option with Hybrid Monster 3 in play

[bleak lake]

Hmmm

[dawn valley]

All Cleave weapons are hybrid

Actually, at this point is it just the Crook and Flail and the Regalia?

[bleak lake]

Can't test since I don't have any of them 😔

[dawn valley]

Yeah, it is. Aglovale got the cool new Aglostrike (also a hybrid weapon, so even better on BeoH)

[bleak lake]

Pure stats are better on regalia but it has that no pet bonus

While crook and flail has some nice immunities and that chance for t.all 1

[dawn valley]

All 3 of the weapons have cool/interesting extra bonuses aside from their stats

I think some people have been underestimating them

[bleak lake]

Yeah, I'm just wondering if the stat difference can make up for less useful bonuses for beoH on the regalia

[restive badge]

thanks for your answers on slice guys, sorry my brain got delayed when reading all the chats xD

[bleak lake]

I'll test slice on my lower al (relative to most people here) beoH mirror in anguish again

Tested on my 30 al beoH mirror with slice on ang 35, biggest issue is the the godforge aura floors if all bosses are 100k hp plus I think

Died against 2x mammon

My amity was 5% ward absorb + 40% crit dmg

[dense lion]

Good damagewise youd say?

[bleak lake]

It's okay, definitely not usable in towers as beoH though

(At my al)

which was 30

[coarse forum]

whats your unbuffed T1 damage?

[bleak lake]

Actually, this was in ang 35

Lemme check on 0 ang

It was 80k ish with buffs in ang 35 boss horde

[mossy dew]

it was quite usable for me though in towers

[coarse forum]

https://tenor.com/view/ricolino-scolari-gif-25352670

[restive badge]

Is it worth for you to use double travelian accessory for that 2h boost? for damage?

[bleak lake]

No buffs 0 ang

1st floor

[bleak lake]

Let me check

[coarse forum]

46k crits is v useable

[mossy dew]

very

[bleak lake]

I'm dying quite a bit for anguish, maybe 46k is good in towers?

[mossy dew]

is this with 40% crit amity ?

[bleak lake]

I'm quite out of touch with player dmg numbers

[bleak lake]

Yes

[mossy dew]

oh

[coarse forum]

46k T1 no buffs is solid for low ang towers

[bleak lake]

55-58k with 2x trev charms

[coarse forum]

and that's hitting 3+ mobs for 58k ea?

[restive badge]

I'm disappointed, I was expecting a bigger boost from accessories

[mossy dew]

at 1 t att 2 100k+ can be expected in towers

[restive badge]

not bad but you miss those immune access

[bleak lake]

2 mobs max, slice hits 1 extra at most

[coarse forum]

o rip

still solid

[bleak lake]

Yeah, beoH pretty much needs those

[restive badge]

I don't understand why we don't have a 'target all' instead of just 1 more target like swangsong

anyway

[coarse forum]

i thought it was hitting 3-4

[mossy dew]

envy is target all

[restive badge]

Yeah but Envy is not on my Feather 199% 😛

[bleak lake]

160k with buffs in 0 anguish, I was hitting like 70k ish with buffs in 35 anguish

[mossy dew]

gursa will be solid

[bleak lake]

I don't have mine upgraded in mirror yet, will test on beoH for live (upgrading mine now)

[restive badge]

What weapon have Envy anyway? Gandring? and...

they are not full of ward or stats I guess...

[mossy dew]

that's it

gandring and a.gandring

[bleak lake]

I don't see any reason to use ybf on beoH for now

[mossy dew]

use swansong with av4

[restive badge]

well, not everybody has got Swansong and also that would be great to make some unique from events be useful

right now they are all superseded by ascension weapons and some niche ones like swansong which is VERY rare if not the rarest

[bleak lake]

My messages aren't going through on pc but for beoH, might as well just use storming tempest, av4 or swansong I think

[mossy dew]

i mean slice isn't bad

[bleak lake]

Will have to test envy and maybe ravage

Unless you have pretty good als

But there's better options then imop

My messages didn't go through for some reason

Finally went through lol

[coarse forum]

is slice affected by weapon enchant or no?

[mossy dew]

slice is physical locked i think

it was before rework too

[coarse forum]

word

[bleak lake]

Lol

I realised that maybe I was doing too little damage since threaten from ortanite golem reduces your dmg, but this is a bit rough

[mossy dew]

haha atleast it works

might have to build one with arch living armor db spam

[bleak lake]

Every single follower with high ward regen skill seems to have provoke

So idk

[dense lion]

I think putting crit in armor and mortars in the weapon itself will net you way more dmg

[bleak lake]

The 2h damage mortars?

[coarse forum]

Ooo golduck might be on to something

[bleak lake]

And assuming I put full 2h dmg mortars in it, beoH will have 24% crit rate with 32% 2h bonus. Needing 51% crit rate from armour minimum for guaranteed crits.

[dense lion]

Yeshhh

Maybe a few mortars and a few feroc eyes on weapon

[bleak lake]

Won't the -att stat from armour crit adorns be too much of an issue?

I can try removing a few and adding wyrm's song into the mix I think

[dense lion]

May be better, you can try it out in beta first so i dont end up ruining your main account 😂

Also mortars have 1% crit

So youll have 19% crit on ybf

Maybe 20?

[bleak lake]

Yeah, this is all in beta for now, I'm way too conservative with my resources in live

Ybf has base crit chance? I forgot

[dense lion]

Yes, 4% i think

[bleak lake]

Hmm

So beoH will have 28% crit rate with full 2h mortar ybf

Still a bit too low imo

I might be wrong though tbh

[dense lion]

Switch it up a bit, put some feroc too

The damage increase is sweet

But im biased because my armor already had a bunch of bristles in it

[mossy dew]

cd

[cerulean aspen]

This is what I’ve got

No ward build with gandring

Should do roughly 80k-100k damage per target which is great for non anguish

[bleak lake]

With buffs I assume?

Or without?

[dawn valley]

Absolutely with

[bleak lake]

I just realised that I don't have any in my inventory, can't be assed to do moondrop raids in beta, will see if I already have some in other gear

[cerulean aspen]

With buffs, att ^, ^^, Zerk 1, Thrud

[mossy dew]

redlined ?

[cerulean aspen]

Nope

[mossy dew]

oh

[cerulean aspen]

Ends up being pretty safe with def/res^, ^^

[bleak lake]

That's pretty good

I'm using gunnr so that can be a bit scary for me

[cerulean aspen]

Yeah as the gandring has horrible ward, there’s no point in building towards it, so I just went towards the def/res route. It’s kinda nice being able to tank realmstrikes and sortie crit

[restive badge]

OMG it is happening guys

it's live

[coarse forum]

Farewell homies, no longer a beta thread 😭

[bleak lake]

Aglovale got cleave according to the announcement lol

[cerulean aspen]

I don’t see it live 😭

[rocky terrace]

X2

[coarse forum]

hoa got an announcement

tfw it's going to take 30 minutes to readorn ymir with the server lag lol

[hollow hare]

any mod (cc @eternal grotto @stray wharf) want to do the honors? thread has graduated 🎓

[coarse forum]

it was an honor

[digital hill]

o7

[dawn valley]

Chained Shield's exclusive dominance for melee classes has officially ended.

We have said yes to Cleave. (and Slice, and Ravage, and...)

[restive badge]

Well, I would rather say... we have said yes to swansong... and then CS or Slice actually feels kinda the same if you can only hit one more target

[bleak lake]

Upward strike and crush will be the best obviously

[dawn valley]

(My name on this server was "Say Yes to Cleave" before it was "Please Fix RPS")

[last elbow]

methinks Odie wrote the patch notes before he made the change of adding aglostrike 2 😆

[rocky terrace]

Amazing

[cerulean aspen]

Just ran through a dungeon. It was great. Tanked a 4k hit from a berserk heretic

[restive badge]

So that's basically my test right now

[dawn valley]

This thread was supposed to be locked 😆

Now this is all live game stuff

[restive badge]

well at least we can give feedback with live data 😛

[last elbow]

its now live beta thread

[rocky terrace]

Why odie, whyyy

It's an OHB || Kind of ||

[eternal grotto]

Alright, as mentioned, the 2H patch is no longer in beta, and therefore this thread is OUTDATED

I will be closing it off - take any further 2h discussion to #1084643200725164062

(You can finish your sentence first though knight)