Conqueror's Guild functional aspects discussion.

[regal escarp]

That’s an important distinction. That’s not taking away ascension, which is still usable in every other fast of the game, the conversation, then evolved to OK if Ascension state and settlement, how could it be accounted for this potential escalation, if this escalation exists, which it may or may not.

Again dead horse. You, or even I are not indicative of the wider community. If the intent of this was to support wider, involvement and increased competition, there’s no way either of us could be that representation.

[restive cargo]

Others have already explained that the conquerors guild is not the best or fastest way to ascend. Towers are faster. Refineries are the fastest. Quite literally every guild out there is faster at mat gains than conquerors guild still. With maybe the exception of fishing guild because it got limited to 500 fish a day

[regal escarp]

Sounds good.

[restive cargo]

Your argument is that us top tiers are ascending faster than every other player because we're holding more settlements and that's not the case lol

[regal escarp]

Sounds good

[restive cargo]

Great, glad you agree

[regal escarp]

I know this apparent constant whining from people has put a strain on you, and I wish to not strain you any further

Go work on that ascension 138, champ

[restive cargo]

150 now. Thanks conquerors guild!

[regal escarp]

Yikes.

[restive cargo]

Had nothing to do with 20k prangs or 2 million tower shards at all

[regal escarp]

Guy whose entire life is this game sees no problems whatsoever for new players, shocker.

I’ll leave you to it. You’re clearly a busy bee!

[restive cargo]

Or I've played for 3.5 yrs and actually worked to get where I'm at in the game? A t10/11 isn't a new player. Shocker you don't start out at those tiers right?

Love that you've been sitting here for 6 minutes waiting on me to respond to you too lmao. But yeah, I am working so keep waiting

[regal escarp]

Time well spent. You are an inspiration

[manic ginkgo]

If the devs wanted crownship tiers to be easy for ‘in-league’ players they would restrict activity to those tiers not let us have othersouls

[boreal saffron]

The funny part of this is actually the more problematic entry point for new players are not a top player, but a player who has put the time to keep his level via ror, they are more frustrating than a high AL.
They are a real PITA for any player or any other soul out there.
And don't get me wrong they deserve that, they are willing to put the effort to keep his level, they deserve to be a PITA.

[regal escarp]

Yeah, I’ve thought about that, the only thing is that other souls is just such a cool dynamic and idea. I don’t know how you could ever really not have it.

Kind of makes it what it is in a way

[regal escarp]

Can’t you be both, or do I not understand how that expless style works? I only learned that people did this in this forum like a week ago

[manic ginkgo]

All they have to do is level past the ror player

[regal escarp]

Lol true

[boreal saffron]

Under that logic, any other player just need to put more time into the game, Simple.

[regal escarp]

Yeah, but to be fair the difference from some of the other discussion around things that could be answered with a similar sentiment, is this would be a much more minimal amount of time. To get from any other tier to another aside from T8 and up is very minimal.Worst case scenario they are using this play style to stay at t9, but even then this is accomplished in a month or less if grinding, I would think.

[manic ginkgo]

Ummm yeah. Our very own @restive cargo used to dominate a long stretch of freeway on my commute. It took a year before I could even begin to get rid of him. Now he gone.

[regal escarp]

But not forgotten

[manic ginkgo]

I can’t relate to the mindset of players who are not motivated by competition.

[hardy spruce]

The gearouts for players that choose to remain at a tier take months/years to get. Finding the perfect weapons, grinding out the mats, GF if tier 5+, is not a given/gimme.

Is my holding 5k+ in settlements with a t6 alt a pain? To some, possibly. But I'm not gunning on my t11/t10s either, and fighting against othersouls the t10/11 have geared out.

I find it fun, and entertaining. Is it something everyone can get into? Possibly.

I'd rather the settlements were forced reset, and more stuff was buy able with marks, but hey, w/e.

[regal escarp]

I think almost everyone is motivated by competition. You have to balance that with enticing new players. If you have a bunch of Michael Jordan‘s as the only players in your area, and you’re trying to tell new players to get good so they can compete, you’re probably not gonna get a lot of people enticed by the line they’d need to draw from where they start to the years it would take to close that gap. Orna is already a game of literal years. It’s not like it’s candy crush. It’s OK to acknowledge new players concerns.

Add on that those Michael Jordan ‘s are also getting better at a faster rate than you, potentially and yeah, you get a lot of people that say F it.

[low kite]

I can agree with some of your view, but it would be nice to tell your ideas while keeping a cool talk here.

[manic ginkgo]

I was a new player and “caught up” to a “michael jordan” because it was plenty enticing

[regal escarp]

Again, I don’t doubt that, but I would very seriously doubt. It’s the majority opinion. Again, I don’t think this forum is super indicative of what the player base may be concerned with.

You were saying right to Dev’s face he ain’t gonna stop you for using alts lol. You’re not the common man.

[boreal saffron]

And this exactly my point no matter what you want or how you want to play either everything comes down to time/effort to do it.

[low kite]

And it's well known and taken Into account by the dev. Doesn't mean joining here to trash talk people involved in this thread (= to try to help improving this content) will help that much 😅

(was in answer to Jimervin)

[regal escarp]

No one was trash talking, I just don’t want anyone to be mad about this terrible incessant whining

[manic ginkgo]

Just like everything else in life?

[regal escarp]

I think he’s agreeing with you

[restive cargo]

Yeah I held those for about two years 😆. I thought it was active up that way, but was surprised to find out it wasn't what everyone made it out to be. I took them when I was a measly 26 AL heretic. Ofc ALs were a bit tougher back then than they are today. I got notifications from you for like 2+ months? Haha. I thought they'd finally all be gone and then you would appear again

[manic ginkgo]

I could do 1/2 a territory a day average for the longest time, until I grinded out selene

Fighting for one circle for 35-40 minutes sometimes

Hooting and hollering in the car when I got one

[hardy spruce]

Back in the day, there was a player by the name of Vyse. Was #1 ranked before competitive ranking was a thing, and more weight was placed on taking/holding territory. Took spots all over the country, was one of the first t10s, before t10s had classes. If you were unlucky enough to be a lowbie with a long swath of territory, he ran right through you.

It took weeks/months for players to force him off the spots, basically having to wait for Stat decay, ie. Turning into a ghost holding territory. Some of my best memories were knocking him out off my spots, and basically tracing his route through multiple back roads to clear him out.

Point being this: it ain't for everyone. Some folks don't enjoy witnessing their efforts getting wiped in what would be an afternoon drive. Others lean fully into it and inject it straight into their veins.

[regal escarp]

You’re right it ain’t. It’s a total opinion of how you want the game to be played. I am of the mindset that I would happily forgo a lot of the time I’ve spent getting to a certain place if it meant more players in my area. I don’t care that it took me years to get to where I am. I don’t have the expectation it should take years for a new player too. If they could somehow get there in a month with game changes, I would be so for that, assuming it would mean huge increases in new players/engagement. I do, however, fully understand why anyone very rightfully would not

[hardy spruce]

Whatever the devs want to do with the guild, I'm for it. I'm not into that "make my own HC" spots. I do it because I like dusting off my t6 wrecking ball, and bumping t10/t11 othersouls off what would be their ONLY spot held by a t6. I chose the appearance to mock them as well, because I like trolling.

It is what it is.

[manic ginkgo]

I just want equal rewards to be a possibility regardless of access to high contest areas. It feels wrong this early in the game to be above someone on the leaderboard and receive a quarter of the earnings

[hardy spruce]

Were I participating with my t10/t11, I would be aligned with that assessment.

[regal escarp]

So the earnings are meaningful or they aren’t? When you say earnings, are you talking about materials that I argue could create a cyclical widening ascension gap, or are you talking about proofs/crown guard/whatever else you get,

[hardy spruce]

(Provided we are discussing ranking for Conqueror guild, not overall world wide rankings)

[manic ginkgo]

The earnings are definitely meaningful to me because I hate endless. 5.5M orns a day would mean I could ascend sometimes. But noooooooooooooooo

And yeah 231 solarite today was boss. But muh orns

[regal escarp]

But this is where I’m confused, because on one hand, the seasoned players are saying that argument is invalid because the mats are so much more achievable elsewhere at a higher pace, and then the other half are like hey it’s not fair this guy’s getting more than me.

[manic ginkgo]

Im not seasoned

<2yr

[regal escarp]

Yeah, but how much playtime

[manic ginkgo]

Doesn’t it count the screen being open just sitting there? Im “on” all night while sleeping if thats the case

[regal escarp]

I’m four years, but that’s mostly with a multi year gap really

Good question. I wondered that myself. I don’t know how it actually counts.

[manic ginkgo]

132 days 6 hours

[regal escarp]

Damn son you a vet

49days

You’re seasoned. Spiced even

[manic ginkgo]

No, i would not say so. I rushed to t10 with summoner and now i am a BeoA who doesnt know how all the game mechanics work yet and is just starting to get key gear pieces

[regal escarp]

At any rate, if you has a new player with 3500 hours of playtime, sees the rewards as meaningful, or at least meaningful enough, that it’s seen as unfair to not be receiving as much as another person receives in the guild, I feel that supports the concern presented. Or at least discounts the counter argument of the rewards in this guild are meaningless next to other play styles.

[regal escarp]

Side question how long do you think it took you to do summoner rush to T 10? being informed as you are now how fast do you think you could with someone versus other classes?

[manic ginkgo]

Oh the rewards are chump change to anyone running endless regularly, doing anguish towers or feeding hundreds of refineries. I just don’t enjoy that stuff

[regal escarp]

Yeah, the difference is I think that one is passive mostly. And you doing the other play styles does not directly inhibit Anyone else doing those styles near you. Whereas with the settlers guild it does.

I could see where orns are chump change, but where people are getting 1000 cursed ortinate or realm ore, or platinum, or some other hard to get thing a day, passively, that isn’t exactly nothing

[manic ginkgo]

2 months to t10 and I dont understand the second question

[regal escarp]

Do you think you could do it faster now being as informed as you are? I guess basically how fast do you think it could be done?

2 months is wild

To me anyway

Never played summoner though

[manic ginkgo]

Someone with a carry can 0-t10 in a few days

[regal escarp]

Yeah, I was just reading about that, wouldn’t that only help you for the last tier?

Because then you’re only 25 levels away, or does being in a party with a Carry benefit you before then just being able to encounter tougher mobs/raids

[manic ginkgo]

I have learned everything I know about the game by making and playing alts. now I have half a clue

Those ror alts can carry a noob

There are entire kingdoms dedicated to rushing new players to t10

[low kite]

And some community on the no alting way 🤷🏻‍♂️🥖

[lucid moon]

Date Created: 2020-03-08
Playtime: 172 days 19 hours.
Distance Travelled: 21,674,294 meters. (more than halfway around the earth.)

[hardy spruce]

So....what if the settlements were reset every month, and your rewards are based on the guild level, + how many settlements you're holding ?

[karmic tartan]

Resetting territory control is something I’d never like to see. I think a system like that would make more sense in BoF, where you could have seasons with different rule sets

[hardy spruce]

Okay, why? Your guild rank essential holds your world competitive ranking, other people get to participate, rewards maintained/increased, etc.

In this way, it doesn't shut out folks, and you can still regain the territory.

[karmic tartan]

People enjoy territory control for the sake of holding large swathes of land. Having it reset monthly would nullify that and also make taking territory less appealing the more you progress into the month. Imagine having a big trip on the 30th, taking hundreds of settlements, and then just losing all of them the next day. I’d just stop interacting with the content at that point

[hardy spruce]

I would rather a larger pool of players participate.

Stagnation of participants is never a good thing.

[karmic tartan]

We’ve seen people in the very top of the Conq Guild leaderboard post screenshots of them losing dozens of settlements to both high and low AL players. I think any sign of stagnation is probably a sign of low player activity in that specific area and not an issue with the guild itself atm

[rigid adder]

I'm just watching, how some guy capturing my settlements, 10/11* with main, failed to cap lower tier and started to cap them with that tier alt... So he can remove gear on them later and easily cap with main. Funny, nice gameplay, praise the alts 🙂

[tawny quiver]

the main reason for alts is the contested rewards right? why not remove that and increase rewards for maintaining bigger areas / number of settlements to motivate people to battle and explore while also defending rather than trading?

[rigid adder]

Alts are also great for recapping settlements from other's othersouls, that you can beat with main. Without stat penalty it's really makes difference. Capturing settlement from problematic othersoul and trading later to main, EZ Clap

[tawny quiver]

yes, but without the contested rewards there would be no reason for alts to continue to do that.

[rigid adder]

Just making recapturing anything much easier... Yeah, no reason at all

[manic ginkgo]

Earning proofs is a good enough reason

[tawny quiver]

but you can also do that with the paper rock scissor

[tawny quiver]

I don't see much advantage in just recapturing as long the contest rewards don't exist everything else can be done with paper scissors rock and defending.

[manic ginkgo]

You can do both and get two proofs

[tawny quiver]

and then rewards from current high contest could be changed to reward the one with most areas or defending for longer time

thus eliminating alt play

[manic ginkgo]

You could use an alt to make a crown ship easier for your main to take

[tawny quiver]

and what advantage that would be rather than just take with the main?

or you mean like someone with an account for each different tier?

because that is an insane level of dedication just to exploit this

[steep sluice]

Yup, I’ll definitely be patching the contestation alt exploit. This was discussed earlier in the thread

Alt use should be disadvantageous in the conqueror’s guild

[tawny quiver]

well guess that is solved then

[manic ginkgo]

Alt should not be treated differently than any other player.

They are legit accounts with time and money investment just like any other account

[tawny quiver]

why not? multi account is often linked to botting and generally bad in most MMORPGs

[manic ginkgo]

They are not different than helping along a kingdom mate

Botting is bad. You are not investing the gameplay time yourself.

[tawny quiver]

money is the reason why big companies let it run rampart (like Blizzard) and the effects are horrible for the game which decreases numbers of real players. Not sure about how it works in Orna.

[manic ginkgo]

One account per household would be monetarily limiting, would it not?

[tawny quiver]

I think with AI people are realising multi boxing (playing more than one character) is not good.

[manic ginkgo]

I enjoy all my alt characters and don’t consider them less important than my main.

[tawny quiver]

I think a more fair comparison maybe is in Pokémon Go with multi accounts which made the game easier. I played with my gf account and she with mine but it felt weird doing that specially to the point I had to do it to actually kill raid and it made me quit the game.

I think there should be a distinction here. Alts on your account and Alt accounts. As playing alts on your account do not bring any advantage and you do for fun. While the other clearly has more effects.

even this conqueror exploit was only possible with the latter I think.

at least for t10

[manic ginkgo]

Sharing accounts is already against the rules

Having multiple accounts is not

[tawny quiver]

Sharing accounts and having multiple phones on the same person is literally the same effect.

"my dog account" kind of smell

while alts on one account mean you can only play one at a time one phone one person and not an army like what happened in Pokémon go

[manic ginkgo]

It is not “literally the same”. Its not the same at all.

[tawny quiver]

what is the difference? having two humans instead of two bots or a divided screen or multiple phones?

they all achieve the same effect

exploit

[manic ginkgo]

I have six devices with six different emails playing six different characters in different class lines and different stages of development. They are in kingdoms and play regularly. They arent exploiting anything-yet

[tawny quiver]

in Pokémon go with 6 accounts you can do solo raids that are supposed for a group for example

[manic ginkgo]

Functionally it is no different than having my six nephews over after school to play every night

[tawny quiver]

in World of Warcraft multi boxing 40 accounts you can do raids solo too in a multi player game.

true or 6 dogs.

[manic ginkgo]

This is not pogo or wow

And alts only create more cashflow and apparent activity in an area which creates more interest

[tawny quiver]

I said pogo or wow because they have non solo content. orna is actually just solo content.

[manic ginkgo]

Pogo and wow not relevant here.

[tawny quiver]

it's just a comparison of bad ambient and the adverse effects

except on orna there are no advantages

while on those games you could argue you do them to play alone on COVID

[manic ginkgo]

Nothing is wrong with wanting different types of gameplay experiences

Have you even played the new classes? They are fun!

[tawny quiver]

but it's not true alt play because if it was then it would be all in 1 account. it's the benefits and exploits that are only possible by using multiple accounts.

[manic ginkgo]

Yeah kingdoms get the benefit of a reliable low level players. And nf gets the benefit of me buying sprites for them. And new local players see activity from other players in their range they can party and raid with. It’s pretty win all around

[tawny quiver]

that could be done within 1 account still

no need for multiple accounts

[manic ginkgo]

Its not functionally any different

[tawny quiver]

I don't have an issue per alts per say. I think it's starts to be unfair when it's "multi boxing". Playing many at same time or having too many unfair interactions that a solo player would not be able to have.

Having 500 alts in one account do no harm at all.

At least as I perceive it.

[manic ginkgo]

Its the same thing. The only difference is the recovery email.

[tawny quiver]

not really because 10 alts in one account means you can only play one at a time right?

2 emails mean you can play both with screen divided

[manic ginkgo]

I guess if you were super multi talented you could play with your hands and your feet

[tawny quiver]

and regarding the money, I while I see the benefit of you buying sprites with different emails I seen many players quit because people have too many alts doing that hence also losing money

[tawny quiver]

that's when the botting and macroing suspicion come in in most games however in Orna I think it's turn based so not even needed you just wait.

for the sake of being in topic I don't know if this relates to conquest as both currently could be exploited anyway and we have to see what Odie new developments change anything on this matter, so talking about this now we won't reach a conclusion I believe

[manic ginkgo]

It feels like you’re creating nonsense arguments just to argue. People are quitting because someone’s alt bought a sprite? What?

[tawny quiver]

I don't want to cause a thread to be deleted or locked 😅

although I liked arguing with you

[manic ginkgo]

There is no way for anyone to differentiate between an alt and anyone else

[tawny quiver]

I meant people quitting because games are filled with alt play and their unfair advantages.

although alt play should be renamed multi account, because that is what really problematic and not having many alts in one account.

I am sure you can search on discord for many discussions regarding this and it's their words not mine.

but let's continue on DMs or something

[manic ginkgo]

There is no benefit to me making a private pro-alt argument

[tawny quiver]

Well I have no need to prove public I am right I am just discussing and learning

[manic ginkgo]

I am actively working to preserve gameplay I enjoy. If youre in it for the argument get a wife

[tawny quiver]

alright

[restive cargo]

Settlements apply to the pvp leaderboard as well. Resetting settlements will fluctuate ranks massively. Not to mention all the time investment required to acquire large amounts of settlements on top of gas money etc for those that go out specifically for it. The xp based leaderboard is garbage for all the leaderboards imo and odie himself said they likely need more metrics. Having resets is going to have less active players in the settlement world most likely, not more. It's already a chore for the upkeep.

As for the alt play discussion. Remove them from the game entirely 🤷‍♂️. If they're going to be limited in conq guild just because you feel a high contestation was made using an alt then you may as well remove the benefits it gives in the rest of the game too. Dungeon farming, leaderboard boosting, account boosting in general, alt kingdoms just to farm raids, they also destroy kingdoms of similar levels in kingdom wars because newer players don't know what they're doing.

Saying it gives an unfair advantage in the conquerors guild but not the rest of the game is laughable. I'd say it's a bigger issue in the game as a whole.

[steep sluice]

I don’t think there is a suggestion that alts are giving an unfair advantage in the Conqueror’s Guild. To reiterate the issues:

1. they are prohibitive to new players when used in place of othersouls. We, as conquerors, should be embracing new competition - Not giving them unnecessary friction

2. they are a means to exploit high contestation

If those two things are addressed, I see no issue with folk using them for enjoyment in the guild

[restive cargo]

How can a player use them as enjoyment in the guild if they are prohibitive to new players and it's going to be addressed? That's a bit contradictory if alts are going to be in some way removed from the guild

[steep sluice]

If 2) is addressed, I don’t think many competitive folk will continue to utilize them, thus indirectly addressing 1)

Otherwise, they are other solutions, of course

[restive cargo]

Wouldn't only the lower tier be highly contested and not the t10/11 slot? I guess othersoul slots give the same bonus as a top crown hc would? There is one settlement that trades hands quite frequently between 3 of us locals and the t10/11 became hc and eventually the t9 did for our OS too, but no difference in rewards once that occurred

[manic ginkgo]

Either get rid of alts or let us use them freely. Don’t try to patch assumptions

[low kite]

That's one of the reason why I left the game for more than a year, when alt play started to become more and more a thing. And at this time horde wasn't possible on solo play...
I still see alt play as bad for both the game....and the players, at least most, as it tend to turn the game into some kind of factory and players tend to leave the game quicker (that's an opinion but based on some facts, for seing many skyrocket players just leaving after a few weeks of infinite loop)

[hardy spruce]

So my question is what is going to happen to my t6 that sits on the leader board? Should I just start my device purge now?

[manic ginkgo]

If they try to exclude alts they will inadvertently exclude other accounts as well.

[hardy spruce]

Well now. That is a bummer.

[low kite]

No worries, they just can't do much - except maybe for the conq guild as Odie said

But tbh I don't see how they will be able to completely clear this "issue", but we ll see

[manic ginkgo]

Why would they bother to try it? It would surely be disastrous. If they do not care about alt wayvesels, they do not care about this enough to sink time into a “fix” that will bite them in their own butt.

[low kite]

Only thing to do is having some annoying baguette player joining here and there where there are players claiming alt farming is good, to balance the talk saying it's maybe not that great for players and the game. And it's fine to disagree

[hardy spruce]

My alt is the only serious participant in Conqueror guild, regretfully. No alt swapping for HC here.

*for my account, I am referrin

[steep sluice]

If you’re not alt swapping for HC, there’s really nothing to worry about here

No other accounts would be affected

[restive cargo]

What if you're alt swapping to test your mains build or test other things? That will inadvertently turn a settlement HC. There's really no way to see why settlements are changing hands between a person and an alt. I'd argue the xp boosting on the leaderboards is more of a concern than turning a settlement HC seeing as you only need 1 HC settlement of each to cap your rewards. Maybe two for orns/gold. Completely irrelevant for items & shrine chance

I have plenty of player made HC settlements so alt made is irrelevant to me, my tests were done primarily to see how many times it needs to swap hands to turn HC and if multiple HC of the same reward choice influenced the rewards drastically as I dislike alt'ing in general.

The other thing I see the most with alts is players using their alt to take out your othersoul because theirs isn't as good and then passing the alt taken crown to their mains othersoul. I've had this happen multiple times to me and it's damn obvious when X player took emperor spot and X player of a different name took the lower tier OS spot on the exact same settlement at the same time as the emperor spot was taken.

[steep sluice]

Sorry - what are you asking? I’m not sure I get the concern re: testing.

[primal brook]

In this scenario, you are saying the alt is better geared than a main? How does that happen? (Or is this limited to RoR players)

[restive cargo]

Because OS have stat reductions on defense as well as on offense so players of the tier have a better chance. So yes, a players RoR'd alt has full stats vs my othersouls 40%/30%/20%/10% innate stat reductions (as well as stat decay). I wouldn't say it applies specifically to RoR accounts, but a non RoR account is going to move on past the tier and likely not do that

And othersouls can't equip amities or accessories either

[restive cargo]

Testing your main accounts defense build using an alt to see how the AI works and how well your defense build holds up against other players. It's not necessarily people targeting making a settlement HC

The testing caelani and I did involving alts and turning a settlement to HC was to see how many times it needs to change hands and if multiple HC influence your rewards beyond a certain point and they do not if that is the other testing being talked about. Seeing as you only need 1 - 2 HC of each choice to max your rewards, I don't see players that live in the middle of nowhere using an alt to max out their rewards like others have because they live in a highly contested area as much of a glaring issue. Just do away with HC all together like many have suggested and allow it to be gained through a higher amount of settlements if HC is really that much of an advantage in players eyes. Trying to remove alts that are specifically to turn a settlement HC vs an alt that is playing for pure enjoyment would be more of a headache wouldn't it?

[karmic tartan]

I think what Odie is saying they’ll do is make it so using an alt won’t count towards making settlements become HC, not that they’ll delete alts that do that

[restive cargo]

I can see that, but I personally don't see that as a glaring issue compared to what the alts are mainly used for. Most of the alts are of lower tiers, they aren't shooting for making a settlement HC as the t10/11 crown won't even be high contest (unless that's a visual bug). The alts are primarily for griefing, taking OS spots then passing to their main, and XP boosting. Like one of the players stated in here, he has no one around him so he uses alts. His guild lvl is almost the same as mine and clearly that level was gained through alting and retaking from the alts. I may be in the minority, but I would rather see leaderboard integrity over someone shooting for gaining the same amount of orns/gold/mats as someone that lives in a more populated area

[karmic tartan]

Oh, I agree 100%, any use of alts to climb leaderboards (Conq’s or any other) should be obliterated from the game

[manic ginkgo]

Using alts for wayvessel access to dungeons is very commonplace

And for the record, I have not used alts to climb the cg leaderboard. I do not even have a t10 alt. I am very aggrieved that an “exploit” is currently the only way for me to earn the same rewards as someone who happens to live elsewhere.

Still stuck around 1.3

[manic ginkgo]

Assuming you are talking about me, my guild level was reached by rps

[restive cargo]

That's a lot of rps lol I hit it daily and can't level up 😆. Either way, are the lower tier crownships HC now? Out of curiosity. Because if they are then I think that shows that lower tier HC crowns don't even benefit a main

[manic ginkgo]

Nope. I dont have a single HC and can’t manufacture one with alt swap on a low tier

I have a four hour commute twice a week, i hit them all

[restive cargo]

Roughly 10 swaps on each character? That's about what it took caelani and I

I've only seen t9 and t10 be HC personally. And the t9 was strictly made between player OS

[manic ginkgo]

Every day I dont level up my t8 and create HC before it all goes away I feel like a chump who squandered a chance

I have already let 50M orns slip thru my fingers since the idea occurred to me

[low kite]

Wich basicaly means removing more than half the current global LB 😅

[manic ginkgo]

Alts are a good strategy that is not against the rules. Lets worry about those who are using scripts and bots and spoofers- those who aren’t actually playing the game. Instead of punishing a handful of people who play extra.

[lucid moon]

Actually, I didn't swap with an alt. I swapped with a friendly local player.
Separate phone, separate account, different person.
So, it's OK that we did that and wrong if it is done with a separate phone, separate account, but the same person?
Or is it only wrong if it is the same phone, same account and same person?

This is a slippery slope, and I'd suggest that people tread lightly.

[steep sluice]

We're only talking about a patch that would prevent alts from causing HC. there's no discussion about removing/disabling alts

I'm definitely not understanding the concern with this one

[lucid moon]

I think part of the confusion is the definition of an alt.
I assume when Odie says "alt" it means a second character on the same account, not a separate account played by the same player.

[manic ginkgo]

Removing an alts ability to do something by definition disables it.

[steep sluice]

Not sure i can agree with that - it can still take the settlement and interact with the Conqueror's Guild as intended. Nothing is disabled, and the alt now has the same abilities as a real player. that's a fair playing field - nothing is disabled

[manic ginkgo]

Except the ability to create HC, which will have been ….. disabled

[steep sluice]

Correct, and a solo player cannot create one either. so it is fair

As this is something I consider an exploit, I would consider any argument in favour HCs via alting to be an argument for cheating in the game, and that just isn't something I can agree should be allowed or considered. sorry

[manic ginkgo]

Please define “alt” for us then

[steep sluice]

We're all aware of what an alt is, i don't think the semantics game will really help here

[manic ginkgo]

At least two of us have concerns

[steep sluice]

As we don't really have Orna "accounts", i'm not sure those two distinctions can even be separated.

again, we all know what an alt is in the context of the HC exploit

[restive cargo]

Ahhh, my apologies. I thought you were attempting it on a lower level per last time we talked about it.

[manic ginkgo]

Respectfully, I am not clear.

[restive cargo]

Bordoadas cleared it up. Misunderstanding since this started as 'alts are hindering low level players and should be removed to they shouldn't be able to create a HC spot, but can stay competing.'

[restive cargo]

There are still players out there using a 2h weapon with a shield and players other souls with specialization skills. Is that not considered cheating if using an alt to create a HC spot is considered cheating?

[manic ginkgo]

Well since “we all know”; it must be as Caelaini described it: “I think part of the confusion is the definition of an alt.
I assume when Odie says "alt" it means a second character on the same account, not a separate account played by the same player.”

[restive cargo]

So many more glaring exploits in the game aside from using an alt to HC a settlement, but that's a concern lol

[steep sluice]

please send us any that may have been missed in the cleanup

[restive cargo]

How about players don't create the HC settlements and they are randomized?

Could even rotate to new settlements every month. It would still bring competition to the settlement

[steep sluice]

there are no accounts in Orna. you only have characters

an alt is any character that is not your main investment

[restive cargo]

That way ppl living in the boonies have a chance at a HC settlement

[steep sluice]

random bonuses are fun. they could be separate from HCs

HCs are intended to be a bonus for Settlements that are difficult to keep (in high contestation locations - bus stops, airports, etc)

[manic ginkgo]

I have three freaking major airports geez whiz none of them have any activity at all. Its a great concept but it flops

[steep sluice]

we'll likely want to consider the situation globally before considering it a flop

[restive cargo]

All the legitimate HC spots I have are along major freeways. After I take them a few times, no one bothers. Even if they held it for a week before I passed back through. I haven't seen any HC spots at a zoo, museum etc and I live in a major city. Haven't been near a major airport to know if there's any HC there

[low kite]

And there are maybe some ways to improve it, like (maybe) having some copy of settlements, more likely for settlements in low challenge area mixed UP with high challenges area ?

[manic ginkgo]

The entire system solved none of the old problems and just created a lot of new ones

[low kite]

In Paris there are (quite) often HC, but it's also maybe because it's not that "big" (many people in small area)

[steep sluice]

besides the exploit - what are the other new problems?

[low kite]

I don't agree with it

[manic ginkgo]

Its still inhibitive to in-league players, still dominated by the same names who dominated before

[low kite]

When I see everyday notifications from players (not alt) from lower tier, I think it's fair to say it's not the same issues as before

[manic ginkgo]

How do you know none of them are alt characters?

[low kite]

Not as much as what it was IMHO

[low kite]

Because I m linked with most of them (= talked to), and I can confirm those are main characters

[steep sluice]

We do have the data to suggest that this is not the case globally

[low kite]

And some shared feelings from players in challenged area

[manic ginkgo]

I just want the opportunity to get equal rewards cap with or without HC contestation, then I will shut up and go away

[low kite]

There can be some improvement of course, and some other players shared here their thoughs about having some issues you mentioned (area with really highly invested players) and there have been some suggestions about it (like an additional crown with T10/11 with AL removed)

I agree with this issue of reward regarding HC. Having double the reward just because someone is living in a challenged area vs someone in less challenged area is IMO an issue too

[manic ginkgo]

Four times!

[low kite]

Talking mainly about mats

[manic ginkgo]

Surely though my butt hurt is apparent

[low kite]

If it's 4 for others then I still agree with this being maybe an issue

[steep sluice]

A true high contest area should be hard to maintain though - so we wouldn't be guaranteed that bonus every day

[low kite]

That being said, I still see this guild as a really nice improvement for the game. Some improvement could be done maybe, but overall it's a + for the game Imo

[manic ginkgo]

Equal opportunity orns plz

[low kite]

That's not our feeling in highly contested area, as there are so many HC around while only a few are needed for the additional reward that it feels to me there is some kind of unsaid agreement between players : I ll take those 3/4 and I m good with it, and will be back if needed in a few days 😅

[bold plinth]

Lol. Disable HC please lol

[manic ginkgo]

Solves all the problems

[steep sluice]

Yeah, that's not true high contest then 😅

i'll revisit it all soon enough

[low kite]

That's "fun" tho. And if there s a way to make them equaly available for everyone would be my choice rather than removing them. According to how the map is done (tiny square with equal number of settlements), the copy thing may be nice ?

[bold plinth]

But heretic first please.

🥲

[steep sluice]

and now i'm off to go back to vacation 🏃‍♂️‍➡️

have a good one, all

[low kite]

That is ! It's just we tend naturality to spam as much as possible no HC settlements and just take thé few HC needed, so the HC go from one to another settlements here and there.
Not sure I m really clear lol

[low kite]

Well deserved vacations 🎉 thank you and have nice time with familly/friends

[restive cargo]

I'm in Houston which is very large, but very, very spread out. The HC I have seen (and now held for weeks/months) are along the freeway with the worst traffic lol. I don't see any in places that would be considered more touristy or big PoI's in the city

[drowsy herald]

That tracks. Interstates, homes, and businesses have higher turnover where players are usually.

[west yoke]

In NYC the HC areas are along major subway hubs, quite a lot of them T9. And after some back and forth with another local player there are some HC settlements with T5 and T7 too

[civic mango]

does rewards gets lower without the upkeep?

[karmic tartan]

Settlements that are not interacted with stop giving rewards after a certain amount of time. Upkeep resets that timer

If you’re visiting your settlements regularly you shouldn’t need it though

[civic mango]

what is that certain amount of time? well i have 786 crownships so i'm not gonna be able to visit all of it for sure...

[lucid moon]

240 hours before reward decay kicks in.

[lime bay]

Has there been discussion of the inability to change reward selection if you're not T10?

Or any other functional disparity like that

[restive cargo]

Top tier crown gets to choose the reward for everyone holding a crownship on the settlement

[lime bay]

My issue is I can't even try to change that because I'm not T10. I own every seat but the T10 seat and I can't compete for it.

I liked this aspect a lot at first. I like being able to compete at different tiers.

But just because some T10 land grabbed near me, I'm stuck with the crappy reward he chose.

I'm the one visiting daily and I own every seat but the top but I'm stuck with what he chose.

I'm just wondering if there's a gap there to be addressed somehow.

I still love the tiered aspect. I wonder if there's an additional layer to add with regard to activity and number of seats held

[clear badge]

Considering I have like a total of 5 in my town that I can reasonably see and it's very rare that I lose it due to my father going through town I don't have a reason to play for upkeep

[west yoke]

That’s fine, there are players with thousands of crownships spread out across a wide area, the only way to refresh those settlements is purchasing the upkeep

[clear badge]

That's like 10% of the game population tho

The majority of the casual players have less than 50 territories and of the casual gamers who have more than that they typically live in a bigger city where they get contested daily. Not only that but proofs of crownship are useless after getting a few pets and a spec that most players grinded from bof after that point there's no reason to ever want proofs of crownship which is where I'm asking the ability to purchase specific mats for seeing as it's not a "grindable guild" for proofs of crownship allowing people to save up 100s of proofs and spend them on something would be better than them only being selected for like 2 months and then reflected after getting the pet(s) and spec you want from it

[clear badge]

Thousands of territories is more like top 1% of players as well

[lucid moon]

I'm not going to be able to visit all 11,871 crownships this week.

[west yoke]

Nah all it takes is a trip to somewhere where you’re a passenger to rack up crownships.

[clear badge]

Majority of Americans can't afford a trip let alone a trip+1

[manic ginkgo]

Driving an hour down a random road and back a different way is the kind of ‘trip’ that works for me

If I lived inside the city it would be a bus ‘trip’

[clear badge]

I don't have a car nor a license along with not being able to afford the gas that would accompany that kind of 'trip' I live in a small town with a drive like that having a total of 2 ways into town on 1 side and 2 on the other all leading to pretty much the same major road so that's simply not plausible

[west yoke]

The Conquerer’s guild is built around travel and competition, you don’t have to participate in it to continue to level or gain more AL. The other guilds are other avenues to gain more mats for AL leveling. I stopped participating in the BoF guild after getting what I needed out of it. Odie can always revisit the guild shops later and add more things to purchase. So I don’t see the downside of just banking the proofs for possible changes later on

[lucid moon]

Northern Forge can give you Equality of Opportunity, but not Equality of Outcome.
Your case is like a 4-foot-tall guy complaining that he can't land a spot on the college basketball team.
I'm not trying to be mean, but what makes you think you should be eligible for the same rewards as those players who do have the ability to compete?
If someone said they only had time to play one hour per week and they complained that they couldn't compete with others that have more time available, how does that even make sense?

[clear badge]

I'm stating that we should be able to purchase rewards from the guild so that proofs of crownship arent useless after you get 3 things

I could care less about the rewards you get for owning 1000s of territories

[lucid moon]

This was discussed in Beta. There are plenty of other ways to get orns and materials other than Conqueror's Guild.

[clear badge]

Proofs of crownship are in the current state going to become useless and not worth selecting as a reward after you get a class and 2 pets and maybe just maybe the ability to reverse ascensions but that only accounts for 1k proofs not the 10000s of proofs you could achieve in 6 months

So what I'm stating is since it's a passive guild in the terms of you can't grind the guild out for proof of crownship that mats would be reasonable with the guild to purchase this way

[lucid moon]

Summoning Scrolls, Heart of Change, Emperor's Crownguards, Tower Keys... these are not useless.

I can always use more Summoning Scrolls.

[clear badge]

We have a guild that's completely unused for 99% of the game already so why do we need a 2nd guild that's only gonna be used to upkeep itself

[clear badge]

Go fishing then

It's faster cheaper and can gain you 500 in a day pretty easily

Besides that the same can be said about every other guild for those exact things

Btw crown guards aren't from proof of crownship they're from proofs of conquer

[lucid moon]

At 41 proofs per day, I can get 19 summoning scrolls for free in one week with far less effort than fishing.

[clear badge]

The current state of the guild is gonna be it's useless for anything but being able to stay I've conquered a bunch of territories

[lucid moon]

Which is exactly what the old PvP system was, except now we can reap far greater rewards.

[clear badge]

Pvp as a whole is a function that's not needed and the only reason that people complain about als and people who script so it's literally just personal achievement guild that gives nothing actually worth at the end of the day.

Right so why make it a guild at all then if all it gives is better rewards why make a whole guild for it

Guild infers they will sell much much more than things that benefits the guild and a few things you can grind out much easier

[clear badge]

At 41 proofs you can get 2 summoning scrolls a day while fishing in an hr I can get 50 summoning scrolls for a singular hr

[lucid moon]

If it is useless for you, then why even post about it?
I've never won a single colosseum match, but that just means that I don't participate in that aspect of the game.

[clear badge]

Much much less than you spent going around claiming territories and doesn't cost real world resources

[clear badge]

It's useless for the majority of the game state this would make it relavent for the majority of players and encourage the players like me who despise that pvp is an aspect of the game want to participate in something like this. Example being how many people actually grind out the bof guild currently how many of them said fluff it and decided to complain until another guild gave bof spec and now can achieve it with a total of 5 territories in 100 days

This would make it an actual guild that offers more than just the guilds stuff. Another thing the majority of the player base can't justify going for a long drive for territories and of those that can they're typically driving and playing which isn't safe so let's steer away from dangerous game play and turn the guild that's already pretty passive usable for the entire player base like fishing is and oh idk the pvp guild is usable just not tolerable

Again all I'm wanting is the guild to function like every other guild in the game and make it so everyone can utilize it for something

Add material purchases as an option.

[boreal saffron]

Content, some like fishing, some like dungeons, some others towers, etc, etc, so having Content for variety of players always good.

[drowsy herald]

At least proofs of crownship can be used for buying summoning scrolls after buying the pets. Proofs of conquering are useless after buying pets. I tried an upkeep, but it didn't change much.

If there was a stat for number of decayed crownships undernearth how many are held on the guild screen, then that would helpful to know if upkeep is needed.

[restive cargo]

You despise pvp but you want to participate in pvp? Odd

[low kite]

(50 SS = 25k coral? I m not fishing envoyer but the average I ve red from many players seems more around 7-8k/hour no ?)

[lucid moon]

It is always 240 hours before decay. So, if you keep track of when you use an upkeep, you should be good up to 240 hours (10 days).

[restive cargo]

People complaining about people that script is not just related to pvp. Pvp is actually the only thing in the game with an anti cheat. Spoofing detection. PvE is where the big macro problem is.

[drowsy herald]

It's definitely been more than 240 hours since I started conquering in the open beta. My settlements must be busy for decay.

[lucid moon]

Use an upkeep before your next reward collection and see how much more rewards you get. Then keep track of the time and date. Add 10 days and collect before that deadline. Then make sure you buy another upkeep the next day just befor you collect.

[drowsy herald]

I just did one this past weekend.

[lucid moon]

Soft cap is 1,000 materials. If you got a single HC settlement with materials selected, that would become 2,000 materials daily.

We have not found a hard cap for materials yet.

[drowsy herald]

There are several HC settlements in that.

[lucid moon]

Ones for materials?

[drowsy herald]

How can you tell? I don't know of a screen that shows all the settlements owned, which rewards are selected, and if they're HC like there used to be a page to see all territories.

[low kite]

Just remembering if you took one HC with material selected most likely

[clear badge]

It doesn't take much for me to claim the 4 territories around my house and 1 at work to 'participate' considering the only other person who plays in my town is my father who struggles to take my territories consistently. From there it's literally just open game collect rewards similar to the memory guild to claim dms. And even then any player with 1 territory can do the same. Again all I'm asking is for mats to be a possible buy. And the whole scripting thing. Someone scripting doesn't effect you unless you're doing pvp stuff. Of those things that matter ascension levels are the reason people care. And the biggest issue is leaderboards they are the reason people care about play your way. You were in a kg with a scripter who literally set it up because he's autistic and was fascinated by the way he was able to code things and combined the passion with a video game passion. And that's how he enjoyed the game I don't see anything wrong with suck things considering his game play changes nothing of what I'm doing or how I do it

[lucid moon]

He's just trolling. I'm done with him. It isn't a serious or reasonable position.

[restive cargo]

False. Scripting degrades the integrity of the leaderboards. Cheating shouldn't be condoned in any game and there should be measures in place to stop it. Kind of outting yourself as one of the ones that macros 😏.

[restive cargo]

And yes I was. He deserved the ban. I had suspected he was macroing too. Sad it took 2 years to catch him. But you know what got him banned? Spoofing.

And he wasn't participating in pvp. He did however boost on the leaderboards devalueing legitimate players time investment.

[clear badge]

No I'm not putting myself I'm saying that I don't see an issue with it the leaderboards can be deleted and removed from history as a whole and 99% of people won't care

[restive cargo]

That's just not true lol. You use 99% for everything

[clear badge]

No I don't

[restive cargo]

I can guarantee more than 1% have leaderboard goals

[lucid moon]

98.4% of all statistics on a forum are made up.

[clear badge]

The top 1000 people care about leaderboards. And if the people who want leaderboard so much then why not get Odie to make an official and unofficial leader board from there it shows people who play reasonable times or casual players. And then one that shows extreme players/scripters. Regardless of how you look at it that leaderboard doesn't give you anything other than personal satisfaction which you should be getting from ascension levels and completing other goals like finishing a tower that day or gaining 50 scrolls in a day achieving an ornate or upgrading something. Leaderboards don't give you extra mats or extra passives or extra anything just personal satisfaction

The leaderboard is what causes issues for everyone. Instead let the scripters do what they do and you continue doing what you do that scripter doesn't change how you play or what you gain

[lucid moon]

"Leaderboards don't give you extra mats or extra passives or extra anything just personal satisfaction, but I'm going to argue for two hours for a special leaderboard I can be on with my five settlements."

[clear badge]

Never once asked for a leaderboard I've made the request to add purchasable mats to the guild

[clear badge]

But if that's what you get out of everything I've said specifically regarding the guild then I think you're in need of glasses and or a new phone to help you read better

[lucid moon]

"...then why not get Odie to make an official and unofficial leader board from there it shows people who play reasonable times or casual players. And then one that shows extreme players/scripters."

[clear badge]

For the people who actually care about scripters

That's all dealing with scripters which aren't relavent to the guild

[lucid moon]

https://tenor.com/view/not-talking-to-you-talk-to-the-hand-shut-up-stop-it-gif-7891807

[clear badge]

Learn to read and how to relate things to what you're gonna say rather than making quotes that weren't said and then taken out of context

Ill reiterate the request I've made, allow proofs of crownship* to purchase materials.

[drowsy herald]

I get 3/4 of that amount of materials with only a 1/5 that many territories.

[restive cargo]

Leaderboards are what many ppl playing a game go for. You're just pulling numbers out of your ass. The scripters are doing that for leaderboard ranks and the thrill of trying to get by a non existent anti cheat. Otherwise there is absolutely no point in scripting lol. Most of the insanely high AL players are not participating in pvp. They're hindering my way of playing and many others by cheating. If using an alt to make a settlement HC is cheating and going to be patched, why should legitimate cheating be accepted? If they're so good at scripting they should just code their own game and bot it

Condoning cheating is wild and this is coming from someone who botted the hell out of runescape lmao

[drowsy herald]

I should only have 234 crownships, but I still have 291 crownships from tiers below t10/11 from trying out Othersouls when it came out in live beta. I don't like Othersouls. They don't match the goal that tiers are meant to be for characters who aren't t10+.

[clear badge]

The majority of the world doesn't have the dedication Odie did to create this. And I wouldn't mind Odie creating (realms) one for more serious players and one for more relaxed players or long term players making a leader board that resets every so often would likely be the solution to getting people who want leaderboard to get leaderboard. Currently our leaderboard state needs fixed and more details need shared for how it's decided who goes where als should be the lowest part of that consideration and owning territories and each guild level should be closer to the top in terms of pvp. I will agree that leaderboard is the long term goal for probably the majority but the majority accepts they won't be top world 100 and in regions with a lot of players accept they won't make top 10 there

[low kite]

I hope you don't say "extreme" players are scripters

I ve also seen many player removed from LB (just for reference there have been like 8/9 characters removed from #100 LB not so long ago), so saying NF doesn't do anything is wrong. Is it perfect ? Most likely not.
By the way, I can't understand people doing this on a RPG, where you get pleasure via improving your character with your effort, and I truly don't know what pleasure cheaters get 😅

[clear badge]

For the player I mentioned earlier his satisfaction was the ability to code something to be extremely effective and he'd sit and watch it go

[low kite]

Weird

[manic ginkgo]

Almost 200 proofs today, just from rps

[steep sluice]

Hey folks - I’m going to lock this thread. We’re definitely in Rule 4/5 territory now

[clear badge]

Well move on allg

[clear badge]

Do you know when we're gonna get the wave 9 and 10 codes or have a planned release date for it

[primal brook]

Is there anywhere that is capturing the mechanics? Things like this or the 240 hrs to start decay are really useful to know. I'm sure the benevolent masters of the Orna google docs will eventually get it there. Not sure if there is something in the meantime.

[restive cargo]

I think it's pinned in the OL conq guild discussion

It is, here's the link #1271491073432223774 message

[regal escarp]

At some point you have to realize this argument of “you could be me if you worked harder so your concerns are invalid”, as a top 10 global player, is an incredibly unsustainable approach to community feedback and would be in literally any game.

Not to say I agree with the points presented, or that mine were correct, but in an already limited capacity for general community feedback, going through this thread there is a somewhat consistent setup of:
1)player presents concern
2)Same 4-5 people with similar high-ranking positions in this guild, relative to most others, say it isn’t one.

Given this, is there any functionality on the server to present consistent concerns/issues/opinons in a votable manner?
Does the suggestion area already solve for this or is there something more focused by specific game topic? I know wouldn’t think to go straight to suggestions and scroll with an opinion here, let alone one that isn’t a suggestion per se, so that’s why I ask. Something where people could see a quick “frequently mentioned”and add to them a vote or additional commentary

[lucid moon]

Because I had an iPhone, I wasn't allowed to get the Conqueror's Guild update until 3 weeks after the Android users.
I then had to wait until November 4th to build the guild hall, or I wouldn't have gotten my 50K Legacy Duke Badge.
It took me 4-1/2 years to hit #5 in the legacy system.
It took me only 40 days to hit #5 in the new system.
So, I don't want to hear anyone say that they can't do what I've done.
There are literally thousands of unclaimed settlements out there within a two-hour drive of your origin town.
If you want the rewards and the leaderboard, get out there and take some settlements.

[manic ginkgo]

Get it while the getting is good…its far easier to beat the ai than actual players

[leaden birch]

if the players don't use upkeep, they are easier than AI

[ashen moth]

Note: This is accomplished much easier at higher tiers than lower tiers.

[lucid moon]

To be fair, that applies to every aspect of the game, other than fishing.

[ashen moth]

very true,
but I find it helpful to those new to the game, and helpful as a reminder to those that are not.

[lucid moon]

I deleted my original post because I was wrong about the even and odd material counts. When they offer you three or five different materials, they divide the total by an odd number and then do rounding. So, with 3 or 5 materials, you will always have an odd number and with 2 or 4 you will always have an even number. Sorry for the inaccurate info. The even/odd test works with Florins but not materials.

I was able to get 1,000 materials (no HC) by the time I hit 2,500 crownships by selecting materials every single time it was available. I had taken all 5 crownships on at least half of that 2,500 and only the top spot on about one-third of them. Up to 1,000 materials, you receive rewards at a MUCH higher rate. This is what we call the soft-cap. After you hit 1,000 materials, you still get material, but only at about 1/25th of the rate you got them at before the soft cap. So, with one HC crown (materials) and 2,500 crownships, you should be getting close to 2,000 materials daily if you use upkeep every 10 days.

2,500 crownships is only 500 full settlements. At my level and with good gear on my othersouls, it takes me about a minute to take all 5 crownships. That's 500 minutes of total fighting time for 2,000 materials daily and the only ongoing costs are the 300 proofs you need every 10 days for upkeep. Can you win 30 R-P-S challenges per day?

Florens are the best reward for kingdom members. Where else can you get 750 florens every day? Overall, I'm very happy with the level of the rewards for the effort required. It isn't stingy and it isn't excessive. It feels like a good balance for the effort required to acquire and maintain.

[hardy spruce]

Has anyone figured out what happens when you jump a tier? My alt I am considering taking to t8/t9, but am sitting on about 2700 t6/t7 spots, currently.

[lucid moon]

Please let us know. You'll be the first I know of.

[restive cargo]

Your othersoul just takes it's place and you move up a new tier to conquer

Be sure to gear your os if you jump up to t8/9 or you'll be like a local t9 that jumped to t10/11 and has a naked os that is able to be one shot lol

[drowsy herald]

I'm only taking the top spots. I can turn off the settlements filter after I get summon Amork and Great Amork like BoF after getting the specs and skins.

[hardy spruce]

LOLOL that's hilarious. I was wondering. Thanks for the info. I may not make the jump, but I am considering the t7 increase. Though the gear just isn't there for a regular t7/t8 boss grind.

[steep gazelle]

At least so far, with no HC settlements, I have not exceeded 1,160. 3k-4k-ish settlements and a decay reset later, that material count hasn't gone up at all. Maybe I'm still in soft-cap mode but it doesn't feel like it. Is anyone else stuck at a specific number without HC settlements?

[manic ginkgo]

Yep. No HC here

[lucid moon]

I am currently earning 2305 materials, which would be 1152 without HC.
If there is a hard-cap at 1160 (or 2320 with HC), then I should hit it this weekend.

[steep gazelle]

If so, this is very depressing.

[lucid moon]

Well, other rewards have hard caps... and to address the concerns of many who felt that the material gains might create too much of an advantage to those already at the top, the daily material gains are not stingy for the effort required. I'm happy with that balance.

The odd thing to me is that the Conqueror X title requires you to take 25,000 settlements (I think they actually count crownships, though... counting each battle won by main or othersoul). With that goal, you'll hit hard cap on everything barely halfway over what you need for the title. Other than leaderboard bragging rights, there's no incentive to hold more than what you need forfull hard-cap once you have the title.

Essentially, we are right back to the old Legacy system where the only compelling driver was the leaderboard's bragging rights.

(PS: Man, you absolutely NEED an HC settlement that rewards Materials.)

https://tenor.com/view/daffy-duck-dollar-sign-eyes-cha-ching-gif-1879134655062850325

[ornate gate]

I personally think that's a good balance. The top end superstar settlement game really should be for bragging rights, imho. Conqeror's guild and old territories really leaned too much into a playstyle that really just isn't achievable for a vast majority of the playerbase

[steep gazelle]

I do, but I can't force anyone to fight me :p

[lucid moon]

Must be a local player that wouldn't mind a few real-world duels. Just like real-world arena or challenges.

[ornate gate]

I still argue that settlements are TOO defendable, too many options to remove your decay, boost your stats, etc

[lucid moon]

I don't like any PvE in my PvP, but if they're going to have NPCs killing players, then I like all the defenses.

[ornate gate]

That only happens in the area pretty close around your OT, which ALWAYS gives rewards otherwise

[lucid moon]

If I'm a prince and march into a foreign unclaimed territory and I plant my flag, I don't want some imaginary NPC tearing my flag back out of the ground. It should be mine until someone else is physically there, tears out my flag, and plants their own.

[steep gazelle]

I'll retain the stance that (especially in a system that supposedly thrives on competition) a cap is a big discouragement to continued engagement. In the previous system, the rewards were negligible, but you felt like you were gaining progress towards something. Even more of a sore-spot is the disappointment accompanying the rewards that are capped at one. In my humble opinion, the capped rewards and the too-heavy diminishing returns are ill-fitting of the effort needed.

[steep gazelle]

There's a few, but they don't engage much 🥲

[ornate gate]

It also adds a bit of repeatability for people who rarely leave a small area around their OT, which I think is a nice touch. And considering I've not lost an area to an NPC yet and never used a rampart or anything else, it doesn't seem too aggressive.

[steep gazelle]

I've not had an NPC take one back since I started, but I do almost always have a crownguard activated.

[lucid moon]

Send them an ally request, propose a few settlement battles, and profit.
Alts may be frowned upon and "against the intent", but two players on different accounts can fight all they want.

[lucid moon]

I have excellent defensive gear on my othersouls and am particularly strong (250 with 35-45 ALs), so I never lose anything to NPCs. Plus, I use upkeep every 10 days.

[steep gazelle]

I'm out of the loop. Is 10 days an arbitrary recommendation?

[lucid moon]

Nope. Upkeep lasts exactly 240 hours.

After that, decay begins.

[manic ginkgo]

I appreciate that this way players who quit will not keep owning all their territory forever

[ornate gate]

Isn't the decay just 1% per day to 50 days?

[steep gazelle]

Yeah, what @ornate gate said. I haven't heard of a 10 day number.

[lucid moon]

I never liked that spoofers continued to hold land that was not reachable after they got banned...
but I DID like the fact that you could run across some old friend (or adversary) from 4 years ago just by driving down some dead end road.

[ornate gate]

Again, NPC's don't retake areas far away from your OT

So planting your flag in some foreign land isn't going to change.

[lucid moon]

#1271491073432223774 message

Lots of good information in that channel.

[ornate gate]

Mind you I didn't read the whole thread but the only thing I see about 10 days there is reward decay, not stat decay?

[restive cargo]

Stat decay is 1% a day for 50 days

[clear badge]

your royal subjects had a rebelion and appointed a new king theres your reasoning

[lucid moon]

They wouldn't do that. My subjects love me.

[clear badge]

look at england lol

[ornate gate]

The royal we must now be used.

[lucid moon]

https://tenor.com/view/victoria-we-are-not-amused-gif-9288933

[velvet hawk]

The fact there are substantial rewards in the first place is more than enough for me 🤷

Even if one has reached hard caps on the rewards, isn't it true that claiming more crownships beyond hard cap is simply helping to keep you at the max rewards? Plus you still contribute to the raison d'etre; conquer all of the places

Ok maybe it would be nice if rewards continued to scale up beyond hard cap, at an exponentially slower rate. But is it really that necessary? The motivator for conquering was always sheer number, I don't think we should be making it about the rewards as well.

No I am not at the max rewards cap 😜😆

[lucid moon]

Actually, you don't get rewards based on crownships. You don't get more rewards if you hold all 5 crowns on a settlement.
You only get one reward per settlement from the highest tier you hold.

Interestingly, if you hold the T11 spot and the T9 spot where the T9 spot is High-Contest, you do not get the multiplier for that T9 spot you hold.
Your reward is purely based on the T11 spot.

[steep gazelle]

The motivator in the previous system was primarily number. If there were no rewards at a certain point, I wouldn't have stuck with it and it may well be the same with this one. In a game that brands itself as "play your way", I should be able to go mostly in on a certain aspect of the game and not be handicapped beyond a certain point, just like those doing the same with other aspects of the game. In a system that was touted to have a drastic increase in rewards, getting many of the players to almost the exact same reward quantity (HC excluded), artificially slowing the rewards down with an extremely heavy hand, and then halting them entirely (excluding the rewards that aren't capped immediately). It's very disheartening. See, it's less about the reward quantity and more about the disheartening arbitrary slowdown and halt to the rewards. In the territory system, I at least had the knowledge that if I put in 90% more work than someone else, I was getting 90% more rewards. Sure, slow it down and make that more like 50% through diminishing returns, but don't make it barely 10% better than (or exactly the same as) somebody who doesn't choose this as their play your way in the game. The rewards in their current state seems designed, through an arbitrary stopping point, to get people into it, boost them up with tons of rewards, and then get them to stop unless they're just that into it that the rewards don't matter at all to them.

My ideal would be a steady reward progression. Just reduce the reward quantity for each settlement and make it entirely even as you gain more. Allow those who focus on retaining their settlements gain additional crownguards from the reward collection, not just one. Let us get both shrines on the collection. Though I am opposed (because of "play your way" and, simply, settlements being what they are) to diminishing returns, I understand why we may always have them
However, if we're going to have this heavy of a diminish and hardcap, it

will certainly be a discouragement, immersion breaker, and antithesis to the competition that the settlement system desperately needs.

[agile pike]

I agree - am definitely against diminishing rewards but I can see why they exist here.
Otherwise the rich get richer. It's too easy to both steamroll and hold areas at high ALs. Those high ALs will get higher.

[lucid moon]

Let me be clear. The game doesn't punish you for taking all five crowns on a settlement. Actually, there are benefits to doing so. You still get an experience point and proof for every crown you take. You just don't get rewards for more than one crown per settlement or hanging onto lower-level duplicate crowns.

Honestly, I get why they did it that way. It prevents the top players from hogging all the low-level crowns to get all the rewards. This way, 5 different players can all get full rewards from a single settlement. If players are fighting and the crowns change hands, players are rewarded for that with XP and proofs. If the crowns sit stagnant, there's no extra benefit.

The good news is that you can actually gain rewards much faster than was previously thought.
You just take one crown for full rewards, set the reward and move on.
If you're a lower tier player, you just take one crown and you also get full rewards... but you are stuck with whatever the Emperor set as the reward.

[steep gazelle]

Multiple crowns on a single settlement not each giving their own rewards is news to me. The implication given on the beta was that each one gave a reward with no difference between each crown owned.

[agile pike]

The issue with diminishing returns is not truly being able to play your way and progress.

However, when PVP is in the picture and it is -not- a level playing field, something has to be done to keep the gap in check. Nature of the beast. Wish I had suggestions to improve conq guild but really will just devolve into an AL discussion for me

[steep gazelle]

None of the rewards are bad for lower tiers unless you're not in a kingdom. Only having three option rewards on each settlement ensures you're pretty much always going to have something you can make use of, so the lower tiers aren't missing out.

[steep gazelle]

The great thing about the Othersouls is that it makes it level in every other tier but your own! Technically speaking, if the opponent is an Othersoul, they have no advantage that I can't also acquire without ascensions.

[agile pike]

True, you can always go after a lesser tier crown and get rewarded

But it is far easier for a t11 to get the same gear the t9 is after

[lucid moon]

Correct, all tiers offer the exact same reward.
But one person can't get more than one reward from a single settlement.
If I take and hold T11, I get 2 Florens daily. If I also take the T9, T7, T5, and T3 crowns on that same settlement, I still get 2 Florens daily.

[steep gazelle]

I know now, it was just implied otherwise and I at least haven't seen where this fact was stated.

[ornate gate]

Just need a siege mechanic now where you can starve out a conqueror 😆

[agile pike]

@steep gazelle what if the diminishing returns / cap were lessened a bit? It does seem pretty harsh

[lucid moon]

Uncovered this yesterday. I'm doing a series of posts on Orna Legends and investigating Decay, Reward calculations, and all kinds of other fun stuff.

[steep gazelle]

I had thought of this, yeah. On a technical standpoint, though, you just don't have access to anything someone can't acquire. Your opponent can acquire ascensions, but you are also improving your own ascensions. You can only improve the Othersoul gear with slightly better adornments, so you can't get leagues ahead of them while they acquire it. The lack of accessories also means crowd control and DOT will outclass the gear often.

[lucid moon]

New Rampart Incoming!!
Call it "Long Cold Winter"

[agile pike]

Also, isnt the diminishing returns largely in part due to having to refresh your settlements every 2 weeks

Like if you arent interacting with them for multiple weeks they yield far less if not nothing?

[lucid moon]

Every 10 days. Upkeep only lasts 240 hours.

[agile pike]

Right so if you cant keep up that cadence you wont get very much for the time spent

It would otherwise be insane passive income

Like i can see why NF put these boundaries in place

[ornate gate]

Also I do know that simply tapping on your settlement refreshes your health. Not sure if it resets decay or rewards or anything else.

[steep gazelle]

I think that rewards only staying active with contesting/viewing the settlement (this was explicitly stated to us in the beta, so unless something changed since then, that should hold true) remove any need for an arbitrary and artificial cap. Lessened diminishing returns, no hard caps, and no 1-item-caps would be most ideal I think.

[agile pike]

I just dont understand the system design to begin with. Probably would have been better to not design a passive income system if people are upset about diminishing rewards? Guild shop menu to buy rewards like the others would be better in your view right?

Because passive income is OP if not capped

[lucid moon]

Well, you get to keep all rewards from settlements within a given distance from your origin town and any settlement you interact with.
As long as you have good enough gear to fend off NPCs, you can keep quite a few daily rewards just within your "safe zone" without using upkeep.

[agile pike]

But in theory, infinite passive income would be possible without diminishing returns or some sort of balance here, right?

[steep gazelle]

I'm indifferent to buying more rewards with Proofs. Passive income is a fine system for me. Much like anything else in the game, it's not OP if balanced right because in order to engage with it, you have to tremendously sacrifice your engagement with other parts of the game. Hence play your way.

[ornate gate]

Personally I think for a passive system, the rewards are just about right.

[steep gazelle]

This part was also confirmed. Within a 20 mile radius (I believe) NPCs will challenge you and you don't lose any rewards. Beyond the radius is where you will lose the rewards at a certain point.

[steep gazelle]

In my opinion, not for continuous engagement.

[ornate gate]

I don't think it's nearly that far in live.

[lucid moon]

I believe so. But I see nothing wrong with that.
They may increase the strength of the NPC attacks over time, so maybe there is a hidden mechanic to fight perpetual ownership without upkeep.

[ornate gate]

I cant' remember where I saw him post so I don't want to get too specific, but Odie did indicate a rough size of the area and it was well below a 20 mile radius

[lucid moon]

20-mile was discussed but never confirmed or proven. I will be investigating this as well, unless someone beats me to it.

[steep gazelle]

Perhaps I am mistaken and it was 20km?

[steep gazelle]

Allrighty!

[lucid moon]

I can say for certain that it is a generous radius on the scale of 10-20 miles (20-50 km)
I did a decay test yesterday on purpose, and my estimate is based on the decay I saw.

[boreal saffron]

That's pretty fucked, my only HC areas are from t9/t7 tiers.
Made think why I want to retake those tiers if I don't have the hc buff, meaning if I don't retake the low players don't take the hc rewards either.
Made no sense.

[lucid moon]

If the T9 or T7 screen shows HC, then it is HC. But you don't get credit for a non-HC T7 crown just because the T11 crown is HC.

[agile pike]

I think a lot of people do though

[ornate gate]

I will likely never have a HC area. I have not lost a settlement crown of any tier since Conquest went live. Eventually someone will come through and wipe out some interstate or something and I'll take it back. But unless I get some new players in my area it's never going to trade hands enough to go HC

[agile pike]

How would you propose a passive income system that cant be infinite ?

Or just what would you like to see changed specifically

[pale notch]

this is from a beta feedback discussion thread which might be why you couldn't find it

[steep gazelle]

Well, this is the part of this discussion I can more-so understand. Though I would much rather get benefits from all 5 (it makes more sense in-game), the benefit is that all five have to be taken for you to lose rewards. It is likely one person would come and take a single crownship, but less likely all five at once. You are more likely to keep your rewards.

[ornate gate]

That was me in Beta and I am not convinced that wasn't some sort of density adjustment because I never got a message about it.

The settlement was in the exact same spot, because it was by my work but one day it just had an NPC sitting on it

[steep gazelle]

Ahh, that is the comment! My bad, it was not an explicit statement of 20 miles.

[lucid moon]

See? If a T7 crown is explicitly set to HC, then you get the multiplier.
Each tier crown has its OWN multiplier flag and is independent of the other crowns on a settlement.

[boreal saffron]

I was under the impression if any tier was HC the whole 5 spots got the buff, not only that specific tier.
So that's no bueno.

So again why I want to retake that tier if i don't receive any real benefit, meaning if I don't retake the low tiers stop receiving the buff too, make no sense.

[lucid moon]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bueno-thumbs-down-gif-15182800107826421528

[steep gazelle]

Ideally, it would be infinite in my book. Infinite is not inherently OP. For example, the previous system's reward was infinite and unbalanced (the rewards were far too low), but not OP. The discussion goes from there to steady rewards or diminishing? I think my ultimate ideal would be not diminishing. Just balance out the rewards to match out the effort, like the previous system wasn't. However, if accelerated rewards followed by a diminish is the goal, that isn't as bad as an eventual hard cap. I can see that if it's balanced more properly than the heavy hand that it currently is. Reduce the diminish intensity, remove the cap. Those who haven't reached the softcap still get lots of rewards, those who have don't feel quite so arbitrarily limited.

#1 preference, rebalance the system to keep the rewards infinitely steady. I think it would be possible. #2 preference, reduce the diminishing returns and remove the cap. The rich don't get significantly richer and engagement with this -checks notes- GPS game's most significantly GPS-based feature is not discouraged after a certain point.

[steep sluice]

The previous system was not infinite. it still required visitation of the areas

[ornate gate]

You and I going to have to disagree on that. Sounds OP as all giggity.

[agile pike]

Ok understood, so far less rewards per area, but not diminishing returns?

[steep gazelle]

So a HC settlement means that only one specific crown becomes HC?

[agile pike]

We know what is possible based on MWs feat before account disappeared. Around 250k-300k areas at once

So balance it based on that?

[steep gazelle]

I know. I'm speaking of outside of rewards that disappear through inactivity.

[agile pike]

See this is why i also have a hard time. @steep gazelle i think you just need to craft the wording a bit better to get others to agree. Im on your side that diminishing returns sucks, but infinite earning potential is also wack

[lucid moon]

No such thing as an "HC Settlement".
Just five possible HC Crowns on a Settlement.
Own that crown, get the multiplier.
5 people could all have HC crowns on the same settlement.

[steep gazelle]

Not necessarily. Just make it worthy of the investment. Don't base it on a prior accomplishment. Base the rewards on the sacrifice of engaging with other areas of the game that engaging with the Conqueror's Guild requires.

[ornate gate]

The problem is that Conqueror's guild is not equally available to all players like pretty much everything else is. So you add an infinite reward loop on a system that isn't fairly available...that's no bueno in my book

[agile pike]

I would much rather progress by taking settlements than sitting in endless too

[steep gazelle]

I've never seen one, so I wouldn't know when the flavor text says "High Contest Settlement". I had to confirm that, unless all five get highly contested individually, only one is highly contested.

[agile pike]

I get @steep gazelle s point though. You can in theory go infinite with infinite time in endless too. The scale is much more rewarding there than conq guild currently. So conq guild doesnt really represent play your way from a balance standpoint. Right @steep gazelle ?

Infinite -- passive-- income is the issue that I have

[lucid moon]

I don't know where this "infinite earning potential" is coming from.
I was getting 1000 base materials when I owned 2500 crowns.
I now get 1150 base materials owning 12197 crowns.

Maybe it is infinite, but I'm going to die long before I hit 10,000 materials at this point.
Guild Level 8 billion?

[ornate gate]

Technically the reward for taking a crown, the active reward, is infinite.

Same as killing a mob in endless.

[agile pike]

It isnt infinite currently, but the suggestion is to remove diminishing returns

[ornate gate]

except of course endless does scale.

[steep gazelle]

Yes. Considering that 1) This is a GPS game, and 2) Play Your Way is a big emphasis, going much harder on the primary GPS aspect of the game shouldn't be hindered so heavily.

[lucid moon]

I like free stuff as much as anyone, but I think diminishing returns would be essential.
Linear returns would give too much of an advantage to no-lifers like me who want to own the whole earth.

[golden drum]

I think its much more preferable to remove the cap than remove the diminishment. The current system seems to discourage the actual active content, as once I took my local area I was essentially 'done' as far as rewards are concerned. I think it should incentivize doing more rather than less.

[agile pike]

I think that if those people want to spend that much time, they should be rewarded as such though?

The only fears i truly have here are tied to the AL system and how ALs trickle into PVP

Otherwise why not uncap all of this

Like this scenario:
Player A conquers world, uses infinite mats to get more ALs and never lose worldwide territories

Extreme lame example but you get my point

The main reason i dont interact with conq guild much anymore is because people in my area either abuse SS3 or copy my builds. Its zzz

The high AL ss3 gursa meta is toxic. Luckily itll be changed soon. Lets see how the interaction improves with the rebalance ? @steep gazelle

Understanding that we still want rewards improved

[steep gazelle]

Oh believe me I'm so over SS3 😂 I will let you know shortly after

[ornate gate]

Personally I cringe more over Realm Dorado than Gilga Ursa

[steep gazelle]

That auto-counter combination is killing me out here

[lucid moon]

We're confusing the issue by mixing arguments.
Balance is a different issue and is on the list of things coming soon.
I think we can all agree that there is an issue with SS3 and G.Ursa.

[steep gazelle]

I hate it, too. But I mostly encounter those in wars. Auto-ward to stop the one-shot, insane dodge, one hit kills while you miss ... Not fun (x

[lucid moon]

I hate to be that guy... but I remember one player telling me, "Nothing prevents you from running that same build you're complaining about." (and he was correct).

[agile pike]

Im not confusing it at all

Infinite rewards means more imbalance in pvp means im less likely to interact

Im just stating a different related outcome of infinite rewards

[lucid moon]

NF can only create equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

[golden drum]

Is it really more or less egregious than running hundreds of hours of anguish 50 dungeons then hopping into PvP? I think the strength imbalance concern is a little overblown. From what I've seen success in territory systems were more determined by ground covered than head to head success.

[restive cargo]

@steep gazelle @lucid moon around 100 legacy areas is the size for npc's to take settlements since they'll only hit the ones that are capable of giving you infinite rewards

[ornate gate]

I've said time anad again, pve ascension should not be in pvp content, but it seems to be unpopular among quite the group here.

[golden drum]

I don't agree with that take either, I'm pretty agnostic to how the ascension is gained, but I think time spent in the game generally should be rewarded equally. I don't see a reason to hard cap Conq when theres nothing hard capping Anguish dungeons or Twoers.

[steep gazelle]

I still fight those people regardless. I'm just not willing to be funneled into those classes to get more consistent victory. After all, I only said it because I was asked. Other than that I just play the game and deal with it, doing my best to overcome.

Ah okay! So 25 km-ish

[steep gazelle]

Thanks for the info.

[ornate gate]

I can make a reasonable argument to you, at least in my opinion. To really progress in Conqueror's guild, you have to travel and traveling takes money and the land to travel to. If you are contained to a relatively small area the Conqueror's guild just isn't available to you on a daily basis once you've taken everything around you. Dungeons used to be the same way but people complained that it was unbalanced that Player A could run 100 dungeons a day because they could travel, so wayvessels were added to make that achievable by everyone. Which as much as I dislike wayvessels it probably expanded the playerbase more than any other singular patch.

Now here we are with some people pushing to return to that in a sense, where people who can travel great distances should get an almost infinite advantage in a rewards system a large percentage of the playerbase just can't utilize anywhere near that level. Believe me, I get the desire. If I could I'd solely play Conqueror's too and use it only to progress. I just personally don't feel it's a reasonable expectation given the constraints. Your mileage of course will vary.

[lucid moon]

Just a guess. I will be testing unless someone else wants to do it.

[steep gazelle]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add is: Due to the temporal nature of the rewards because of elimination due to inactivity and the ability for others to take them back, the rewards are given a self-balancing act. They don't fix 100% of everything, but it's even enough for even Odie to consider them non-infinite without a cap.

[ornate gate]

Wouldn't that be like 5 square kilometers? (I of course said square kilometers when I meant a 5 kilometrer by 5 kilometer block)

[steep gazelle]

Nah, I'll just see when it happens ^~^

[steep gazelle]

Each legacy spot was .25km, if I remember correctly.

[ornate gate]

They were aI think 440 ish meters in diameter

So if you space them 500 meters, then a 10X 10 block

[balmy beacon]

I can confirm getting to lvl 20 back when BoF required lvl 20 was a chore but somewhat fast by doing highway claiming

[ornate gate]

So if it's an area roughly equivalent to 100 old legacy territories that would be something like 2.5 kilometers from your OT in any direction

[steep gazelle]

25 kilometers

[ornate gate]

25 kilometers in any direction would be waaaay more than 100 legacy territories, unless you mean 25 square kilometers

Which would be 5X5

[golden drum]

Yeah, while I understand that argument, firstly this is a GPS based game, I really think some level of travel should be expected going into it.

But yeah, this is why I think the rewards should be uncapped but diminishment should stay. Reward me, for a time, for going out and taking land and/or refreshing my land. That is on an equivalent level to taking time to do any other activity. If I have to make the decision to use my playtime

My rewards have been capped since week 1 of the conquerors guild, and I really havent gone that far, and am not high on the leaderboards.

I'm just really not fond of the argument that we should cap things because someones real life situation makes a single activity of the game less teneble for them. Why not cap dungeons at 15 a day because some people have 16 hour doubleshifts?

[steep gazelle]

I agree. In my opinion, BoF spec shouldn't't have been a Conqueror's Guild purchase anyway. It's only relevant to melee players and it cheapens the effort getting it in the BoF guild. There should have been a spec that was settlement related.

[steep gazelle]

I assumed he was talking about a radius. If not, than it would be less of a range, yes.

[balmy beacon]

I am more than happy to have had an alternative to BoF as I found BoF guild extremely incompatible with me, and my need for that spec was purely for PVE

but that is mostly a me issue being resolved with conquest guild

[ornate gate]

Ah I see so like 100 territories in any direction? He didn't really specify so it's possible it could be that high I guess. If I ever get NPC's to retake any of mine, I'll find out!

I never would have gotten BoF if I had to do it through Blades combat, I just couldn't do it, it was too miserable

[agile pike]

I can agree with this at least

BoF is an entirely different conversation though

Does not reward the time spent or the difficulty

[lucid moon]

Pre-soft cap reward rates can be found here. #1271491073432223774 message
(Still a work in progress.)

[steep gazelle]

For what it's worth, I've only ever had them taken in Beta, and it was half a mile from my OT

[lucid moon]

Yeah, but that boundary shifted during beta.

[bold plinth]

Oh man. Yup. I agree. In a game where people defend 200 ascensions, having territory players with a hard cap the same as someone with 200 settlements or whatever (not sure on the number but the difference can be outrageous). I just think about how I would’ve felt if I had all my 175,000 areas and lost them just to get capped rewards in the end. I would’ve blown a fuse.

Oh. I missed so much of this conversation. Lol. I just took my kids to karate. 😂

[lucid moon]

If my numbers are right, you only need a single crown on 5169 settlements to achieve 100% hard caps across the board.
You would be Guild Level 23.

[steep gazelle]

Thankfully the ascension conversation is happening, but it is quite ironic.

[clear badge]

Why does ascensions matter for this guild you can quite literally buy something to disable ascension levels

[steep gazelle]

It took another 1k spots or so prioritizing materials since I last commented. I finally exceeded it at 1,173 (a 13 increase) which means it took seemingly about 4k-5k crowns (not including same-settlement or ones where materials were not available) for me to go up 12. There has been no increase on Crownguards for about 3,000 crowns.

[bold plinth]

Oh? And can I just keep that anti AL thing running 24/7? No. Yeah. They matter

[boreal saffron]

Ok just to have a final thought, today after using the upkeep and having some t9, t7, HC settlements(having the conqueror spot) see no difference at all for rewards.

So this is just a reinforcement of my thinking of no point to engage with retaking those spots if no difference with rewards(not counting the +1 guild point for retaking)
Meaning not me, or any other players(after couple days)is getting the buff for interacting with the pvp aspect of the game.

[clear badge]

No it's called when you find an area with someone you can't beat origin town grab it and use it take all the territories you can and quit whining. Plus I've beat asl 150s at Al 24 so if you're struggling to take an Al 200 out concider more als or consider new strategies but more than likely you're the issue on why you can't beat them

[bold plinth]

I….can’t?

Lemme guess…I need to “get gud”?

[clear badge]

And I'm ngl the main reason who like pvp grind als is because it helps them keep territories so even the idea of a item you can use to remove them in this content is a huge slap in the face to anyone with more than 50 als

You can look at every well known person who talks here and they'll tell you als are pvp and leaderboard only for them any more. Just be glad that everyone who pvps doesn't use beoh with more than 1m ward

[bold plinth]

What are you even trying to say? You’re all over the place. I only said ascensions matter…

You’re ranting. Focus

[clear badge]

I said they don't matter

[bold plinth]

I said they do

[clear badge]

That you're just weak and need to work on your gear and try new options

[bold plinth]

You said they do

[bold plinth]

Oh god

[clear badge]

They make it easier to secure but you can realistically beat anyone with 150 als easily

[bold plinth]

How new are you?

[clear badge]

I was Al 24 for that day

[bold plinth]

Less than 1 year for sure

[clear badge]

Im now Al 40 and can be at any pvp person who isn't a die hard for pvp

Nope

I've got 4+ years into this game

[bold plinth]

Then why are you telling any of this to me?

[clear badge]

Because youre whining about als

[bold plinth]

😒

[clear badge]

Quit whining about it and get yours up

Then get better gear

[bold plinth]

I don’t need them

We caught one lol

[clear badge]

Thennnnn figure out a way to win against any high level pvp player

Then combine them and you'll be able to take down 99% of the player base with 1 click

[bold plinth]

You’re barking at the wrong tree this time. You really are

Look. My point is, you can’t shove your opinion on everyone. If we were living close, I’d bet I could change your point of view…

[clear badge]

No I'm stating essencially what @restive cargo would tell you infact he was just talking about a fresh t10? I think

[bold plinth]

That’s wrecked.

Doesn’t happen to me

[clear badge]

That's wrecked with 100+ als

Who's put months worth of time into pvp and securing territories

[bold plinth]

Ehhh…”time into PvP” is relative. On who’s talking. He might have put a lot of time in for you, but for me, not enough

[clear badge]

And when I was seeing wrecked in my area It was when gilga became huge and he had 120 als on me then I was able to beat him

[bold plinth]

Look. Stop a second. I might be talking from experience here? Considered that?

[clear badge]

Evidently you've not put enough time into it cuz you're whining about als and a low Al player is telling you to quit whining and put more time and effort in

[bold plinth]

Again. I dislike ALs on PvP, just because it’s boring and because it won’t end. Not because I can’t beat anyone

Ok. You know what? You’re right

Lol

[magic fern]

MW is being nice and won't do it 😅

He is one of 2 (3?) people to ever grab the 250k territory control achievement.

He's put in more time than you will, ever.

Definitely not the argument to be making

[bold plinth]

Took me 1.5 years to do it. The other did it in 4+ or so

But

[magic fern]

It's entirely possible to not like the AL system for the system itself and not because of effort/time/whining or whatever

[bold plinth]

I dislike disingenuous people. That just want people to fall in line without even reading. Which is exactly what’s happening here.

[clear badge]

Evidently he's not put enough in seeing that he's whining about als. Like I said any player can be at high level als and yah battles get long so what if you like pvp that makes it more fun because it's an actual challenge. All I'm hearing is complaints about pvp being to hard and the only solution to it being removed also from pvp entirely. (If you want that blade of finesse is right there in your ot) Be thankful Odie gave the community the ability to use something to remove als as a whole for 30 mins instead of just saying suck it up butter cup

[bold plinth]

Hahaha. Jeez. You’re a fun person

For context…I just said ALs matter on PvP.

[pale notch]

normal discussion in a discussion thread like this shouldn't be picked up as whining. Please be respectful of one another

[clear badge]

I don't stasis lock any player I beat them with bof rend epee and if it's not 1 click it might be 2-3 but the battle really only goes on that long

[restive cargo]

I didn't put in enough time? 😆 what. You're a trucker ofc you got more territories, doesn't mean more time though lol. If I had the same occupation you know I would have been above you 😉

[bold plinth]

😬fair enough.

[restive cargo]

Would have been a nightmare for us both honestly. Lol

[bold plinth]

Yup. Odie really saved you with that skill didn’t he? Now you’re here acting like you got game, talking down on people. I don’t need busted skills either.

Next you’re gonna be a ss3 specialist and think you’re a baller

[clear badge]

I'm talking about using a skill anyone can get with effort and using it. Tbf the current meta is low Al rend epee high Al ss3 and both can 1 shot someone. But when you actually sit down and look at it you can beat almost any player without those skills guarding strikes 4 Omni strike 3 or even simply the attack button. Not to mention there's ca or quick cast Ultima spam

[bold plinth]

Either way, in the end, you’re not the person to have this argument with. Reminds me of “what his name was”, back in the day. So deuces. I’ll talk to someone that actually likes debating his ideas or challenging ideas

[restive cargo]

Only reason I don't have a problem with ALs is because how unbalanced classes are at this point. If we could actually get some balance without something being super meta then the AL issue would probably get more traction. I did start up a thread a couple months ago on opinions about a separate pvp AL with less scaling or scale pve ascensions way less and start a separate pvp AL 🤷‍♂️

Currently every "balance" creates a class that's lightyears ahead of every other

[clear badge]

This is something we can all agree on

[lucid moon]

You will only get one Crownguard, one Item, and one Shrine no matter how many settlements you own with those.
I also stalled out around 1152-1156. I think materials are a progressive curve and get harder and harder to advance.

[steep gazelle]

I meant Proofs

[lucid moon]

Proofs cap at 41. I've never seen anyone get more than that.

[steep gazelle]

I thought it was confirmed you need a HC settlement to reach 41? I think someone had mentioned that it was 36 hard cap without one. I'm logging interesting reward harvests in case it's useful information.

[steep gazelle]

Supposedly if you have a higher crown than the one is contested, the Othersoul skips the contested one (and all beneath it). That may be your issue.

[lucid moon]

I could test this. I only have one HC Proof Crown and I know where it is. I could change it to something useless (Item?) and see what my dail proof reward drops to. I only saw it go as high as 36, but then I stopped trying.

[boreal saffron]

I don't know, the only thing I know is the purpose of this guild is to have a better interaction between all tiers across the board.
However I start to see the same stale loop from the old system.
Holding the emperor spot, and because that spot is not HC no one else is getting the extra rewards, so🤷

[steep gazelle]

You get HC rewards if the HC crown is the highest one that you own. If you the 10 spot, but the 9 spot is HC and owned by someone else, they get HC rewards.

Flawed, yeah. But that's what it is right now.

[ornate gate]

I am not sure whay that is flawed. If a bunch of T7' are fighting back and forth tooth and nail and you are just sitting in your easy chair why should you get extra rewards? I think the bigger problem is that High Contest reward system is not ideal. Having one high contest settlement should only give multiple rewards for that specific settlement not raise your cap on everything for that reward.

[boreal saffron]

Because on my area is only a couple actives guys(t9,t7,t3) + me none of them are retaking any from each other is me vs they, if I stop retaking his spots not me, not they are getting the extra reward, so we go back to the old stale game play from the old system.

Yes I am looking at you exp-less, you are pita to take down, unfortunately if not really a motivation to spend time fighting you, not going to bother to do it.

[ornate gate]

Personally I think it would be ideal to just do away with High Contest and make it so all settlements you took in the last 48 hours do not get limited by the cap system

If you took 2000 Settlements in the last 48 hours they reward seperately from the more passive income capped system

That would encourage more taking and less "ohh I am at cap so I am going to just sit on what I have."

[west yoke]

Has anyone has seen a HC crown downgrade? Does that even happen?

[rigid adder]

yes, happened near me, my neighbor didn't touch settlements for a few days, and they lost their "HC". Sadly i didn't notice, how many days passed

[restive cargo]

Surely more than a few days. I've held some for over a month and they haven't lost their HC status yet

[karmic tartan]

Maybe interacting with them resets the timer?

[steep gazelle]

No, my meaning is that if you own T10 and T7 and the T7 is HC while the T10 is not, you should get the HC rewards. Yes, I also agree that the multiplier setup is flawed.

[lucid moon]

Just because a different player is sitting on the Emperor (T11) spot doesn't mean you can't get high-contest on the lower tier crowns on that same settlement. Each crown on a settlement has its own HC multiplier. If it changes hands 10 times, that tier crown becomes an HC multiplier for whoever owns it.

[lucid moon]

The HC multiplier is ONLY for the person holding that crown.
For example: Just because the T7 crown flips to HC does NOT mean that the T11, T9, T5, or T3 players get multipliers. They DON'T.
Only the holder of an HC crown gets the multiplier.

[lucid moon]

Have not seen it happen yet.
We assume it gets reset by Upkeep.

[lucid moon]

or Upkeep.

[lucid moon]

I'm torn on that, but I think I disagree.
T7 players aren't allowed to even attack T9 or T11 spots.
T11 players should not be able to take HC crowns away from T7s.
That should be reserved for T7 players.

[restive cargo]

Interaction with them every day seems to keep the HC whether it's you or someone else even just playing rps. The two I had at my parents are no longer HC after roughly a week of no interaction

Upkeep doesn't matter it seems since I used upkeep a few days ago

[lucid moon]

Funny that I haven't had any drop off.
I do run my RPS loop every few days (which is where my HC crowns exist) so maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I haven't lost one yet.

[lucid moon]

Did you let the Upkeep drop off for a while before that?

[restive cargo]

I tend to upkeep every couple days rather than every 10. The last time I interacted with these settlements was on the first and they're tucked away so can't be seen from the main road. First time I'm seeing them fall off, I'm thinking something was tweaked

The HC at my OT and at work are still HC, but I interact with them every day. Unless alt made HC has been patched, but based on what RToxic said, it seems like there was tweaking to the HC settlement decay

[boreal saffron]

Yes, but if i have the emperor spot, i don't receive the hc buff, neither if my other soul is retaking that spot, so if my other soul stop retaking the settlement, that player soon is going to stop receiving the hc multiplier, meaning no motivation to engage to interact with the others soul vs player.

[restive cargo]

Scratch everything I said, the settlements are still HC. I was just on the t9 crown 😅

[lucid moon]

Good to know and confirms what I believe again.

[lucid moon]

If you own the Emperor spot, then you need to get that crown to flip to HC to get the buff from that settlement.
If you own the T9 HC crown on that settlement, and you lose the T11 Emperor crown on that settlement, you then get the HC multiplier for whatever reward they set it to.

[boreal saffron]

Which is not happening, so unless I start to use alts don't see this happening any time soon.

[peak kestrel]

HC multiplier is just too big or like said above it shouldn't multiply everything you own

[lime bay]

It would be cool if the conquerors guild building skin could include your sprite so you're always the king of your own castle. That's probably a lot, but thought I'd mention it.

Because there's a little platform there

[balmy beacon]

The shop makes me feel like no, i am not the king of that guild

[tawny quiver]

thats for the 3rd upcoming follower /s

[ornate gate]

Side note, 6KM from OT is as far as I've seen a message about an NPC retaking a settlement from me.

[lucid moon]

Good info! Thanks!

[bold plinth]

Gotta say one thing. The HC status, when done the right way, is awesome. I’m fighting in a highway and maybe 50% of it is HC. It is a huge bloodbath. It’s a really great concept.

[lucid moon]

Agreed. Once it becomes HC, everyone wants it and everyone will defend it.

[manic ginkgo]

Crownguards: do they stack?

[ashen moth]

I believe so

[still nova]

They stack with each other, yes

[bold plinth]

Hmmm. I just used a AL equalization for the first time

I think it’s amazing. And would love to see the cool down reduced

[ornate gate]

Personally I'd love to see you never have to use one 😄

[bold plinth]

How should that feel? Having that turned on and suddenly you can’t take anything and don’t know how to go around it? 😂

[bold plinth]

Lol. I’m not ashamed. Odie says heretic is just a glass cannon. 🤣 Now I can use stuff like this lmfao

It is interesting though. Love how the match changes as soon as it’s on

[ornate gate]

I'd strip out all the defensive tools and remove AL's entirely, good thing I am not in charge!

[bold plinth]

In fact, I used it on a lower AL 😂

[ornate gate]

Sus

[bold plinth]

More like how broken are we?

[ornate gate]

Gilga swash Spiked shielding, hoorah

[bold plinth]

Magic pew pew is better

[ornate gate]

Some of the most fun I've had in this game was territory battles that led into local rivalries where ascension didn't even exist. It was just bitter battles back and forth slaughtering each other in town on a near daily basis. Then they all quit 😦

Trying to pinpoint where they hit me and then arrange to go take it all back

[bold plinth]

Meh. That doesn’t sound that fun though.

Gets tiring after a while.

[ornate gate]

I found it extremely fun, tastes differ

[bold plinth]

That is true

[ornate gate]

I should probably start putting posters up around the local Walmarts, try this game!

[maiden dagger]

Is there any chance the guild level requirement to purchase HoCs could be turned down?

Ive only managed to get Conqs guild to level 10, mostly because there are very few active players around me and it's difficult to get out to find settlements. At this rate level 20 feels like it is literally years away.

[feral pawn]

It looks like there is no stat for settlements taken, only 'settlements currently held'.
The old "Areas Taken" stat doesn't increment when taking any settlement.

[maiden dagger]

I have had a similar thought, haha

[brazen path]

Hi all, anybody knows why the HP of the othersouls during the battle is much lower than the one shown in the status screen?

I have 1788 in status screen and 1072 in batttle screen

[pale notch]

lower tier othersouls get a stat reduction based on the difference of your tier to ensure inleague players always have an advantage

[brazen path]

then it is weird if I get a 40% reduction when I fight againt people with 60 ALs more than me 😄

[karmic tartan]

ALs don’t affect othersouls

[leaden birch]

But OS is not affected by AL so AL200 player OS is same strong as yours. 🤷‍♂️

[brazen path]

Sorry just to understand, then why I have 1072 instead of 1788 against an higher AL player's othersoul?

[feral pawn]

Anybody knows what "rotating brackets" means in the patch notes?

[limber trout]

Gonna need aethric bois to explain brackets to begin with 😬

[leaden birch]

Everybody OS only during attack has lowered stats (all of them) by 5% for each tier away from yours. But full stats during defense.

[brazen path]

So I should not have any reduction when attacking against a T11 AL150 as T11 AL82, correct?

[leaden birch]

Tier from yours. Not enemy.

You are T11, your T3 OS is 8 tiers from and has 40% less stats every time during attack. Your T5 OS has 30%...etc.

Someone who is T8, his T3 OS is 25% weaker, his T5 OS is 15% weaker. Everytime during attack.

[brazen path]

Thanks for the explanation.
Was this found by the community or was it stated somewhere by NF?

[leaden birch]

Found by community

Its not like NF saying how things works...luckily.

[brazen path]

Is there a specific channel for conq guild researches other than this?

[pale notch]

check the pins in the conq guild channel on OL

[steep gazelle]

After ~4,000 more Crowns choosing Proofs every time, I finally moved from 37 daily proofs to 38. So, it took about 9,000~ to increase it by 2 💁 the rewards definitely still need a reworking.

[leaden birch]

rewards have caps

[manic ginkgo]

There are other factors at play such as if you have any highly contested settlements for proofs, and how regularly you perform upkeep

[steep gazelle]

My statement was made factoring both of those things.

Meaning that since the beginning I've disagreed with a soft-cap that takes 4k-5k fights to increase your that reward by 1 without a single highly contested settlement that literally doubles it, and still takes the same numbers to progress further.

[steep gazelle]

And this is considering upkeep. I know all of the ins and outs when I made the statement

[leaden birch]

what wrong with caps? the rewards are pretty high imo ...imo it is lot of orns, lot of mats, lots of proofs... how much would you like to get?

still less than 1% of playerbase is at those numbers (meaning max rewards)

HC working differently for different ones, I agree HC settlements should be reworked, but not caps

[steep gazelle]

If there were any other area of the game where you could do ~20 collective hours of grinding and see essentially nothing come from the item you were aiming to get? And for what, to buy Crownguards and Summoning Scrolls pretty much exclusively? There is no other area of the game with this kind of limitation, really, save for catching 500 fish per day. High, perhaps, but not for the amount of effort required when compared to any other part of the game. I can understand diminishing returns, but not remotely to such a degree as this.

[leaden birch]

If there were any other area of the game where you could do ~20 collective hours of grinding and see essentially nothing come from the item you were aiming to get?

I did several times more in old area content. It was purely competitive area of the game with zero rewards, lets be honest. Now we get rewards on top of that and still majority of ppl playing it for the competitive side.

I was doing 60-80 km bike trips just to get some areas. Often.

🤷‍♂️

Hey, now I get 750k materials a year and 2 bilion orns on top of that. Not bad if you asking me.

[steep gazelle]

The materials argument would be more substantial if the diminishing return were not so harsh. Everyone is funneled up to the same material count, and then you go up 2 materials maybe every ... 400 settlements or so? No, you're designed to be bumped up very quickly and then discouraged from giving it too much of your time. Hence, rework them to feel less artificial. At the moment, it feels very artificial.

[leaden birch]

You didn't participate in old area system?

[steep gazelle]

Yes, as did I, more heavily than almost anyone else. However, there is a big difference between CG and Territory control. Nobody was ever arguing that territories were supposed to be a means of progression, nor be a system that adhered to the "play your way" bit that was the reasoning to introduce all these guilds - including this one. If you're marketing the new system as a very viable option, don't punish people for extended engagement, essentially rewarding them the same as people with only moderate engagement. No other guild functions like that.

Gotta' go, I'll respond later ♥️

[leaden birch]

If you're marketing the new system as a very viable option

Who did that?

Never heard anyone saying this guild and system will be viable option to farming. Just that it is rework ...

Ok, this is also nice.

If you get 2000 mats per day, that makes 32.25 of each mat (62 mats total).

Knight recently did some mats weight for AL. He took out all mats that you can buy or are easily obtainable and give them zero. So if I took the remaining materials (33 of them) and take their value in prangs/shards - you will get 514 prangs / 102.9k shards a day. 🙂

= 3x ANG20 towers or 37 ANG50 dungeons.

[manic ginkgo]

Its worlds better than the old system

[restive cargo]

It always cracks me up when people don't know your ign or competitive rank and talk to you like you're clueless on territory 😆. The best low AL defender I've ever fought and now you have quite a few more ALs since I've fought you

[restive cargo]

The towers and dungeons will each take 2 - 3 hours for someone on the slower side of clearing. Settlements require way more time and consistent investment to maintain rewards, especially if they are not a high AL player. So in 4 hours I can gain 4k mats vs weeks of settlement grabbing and maintaining upkeep to hit 2k mats lol

[manic ginkgo]

I guess I missed the part where they advertised conquerors guild as being an amazing means of progression

[restive cargo]

The point is no other guild is capped besides fishing and that's capped because it's so heavily "abused" if you get what I mean. Conq guild is the only guild where they are removed insanely fast. Every other guild is way faster progression still tbh and don't require as much time or gas

[magic fern]

Counter point

I can spend 10 hours in conq guild for 1 day

And reap maxed out rewards for weeks/months with no more effort put in

[restive cargo]

All it would take is cutting down initial rewards to an extent and buffing them further down the line so it doesnt take 200 settlements for an increase of 2 mats. It just makes it feel like you're wasting your time after that

Lol 10 hours in conq guild in a day isn't going to max your rewards man. I've done it easy multiple days in a row

[magic fern]

It's what i did and maxed out mats/items/orns, and I don't care about the rest

And then upkeep makes it free until you run out after that

I get not liking the cap, but removing it would need something like the removal of upkeep alltogether

[restive cargo]

Mats don't cap so you didn't max them. You hit 5.5m orns in 10 hours? Doubt it since caelani couldn't even get his maxed with likely 5x the amount of settlements

I couldn't even hit 5.5m orns for a while, though I hit it before him

Items are 1 a day so one settlement maxes that lol

[magic fern]

10 hours of 70 mph with no competition is a lot of settlements - that's beside the point though

[restive cargo]

Yeah. I did it as you saw me up in Dallas

[magic fern]

The argument can't be "anguish doesn't have a cap, so settlements shouldn't either"

[restive cargo]

I drove 10 hours that day easy lol

Tbh that's not the argument he's made in the past. It's redistribution of the cap essentially so conq guild doesn't feel useless when you hit a certain point

[magic fern]

Anguish requires constantly punching a dungeon

Conq guild requires a lot of initial effort, and then it can essentialy be ignored outside of upkeep

[restive cargo]

With upkeep it can't be ignored though.. you know how long it takes for 300 rps wins? Lol. I drive all day and don't get that if I'm not taking settlements

[manic ginkgo]

300 rps wins= about 2 hours

[magic fern]

If you do 10 days upkeep cycles it's 30 a day, which would need on average 60 RPS wins. That's what, 10 minutes in the car?

Anyway, the point is the current system can't be uncapped. There isn't anywhere near enough competition, and it's too easy currently to hold tens of thousands of settlements, hit upkeep every 10 days, and get free stuff

[manic ginkgo]

If you don’t rps, you will run out of proofs to upkeep with

[magic fern]

If the community really wants an uncapped system, it would need to be redesigned to distribute rewards when capturing a territory or something that forces continuous participation

(Personally, I'd much rather see a super buff to rewards when taking territory, and a large reduction in daily rewards, not sure how popular that opinion is though)

[manic ginkgo]

Then once you have taken everything near you, you would be sol

[magic fern]

Well I already have that problem so 😅

Unless I road trip my interaction with the guild has been RPS since it launched

[restive cargo]

The mats are uncapped as far as we know. It's weight distribution that needs changing.

[manic ginkgo]

Its nice to be able to stay competitive and get rewards even if you cant take crowns for whatever reason

[restive cargo]

Shouldn't take hundreds of settlements to increase mats by 2 just because you hit the conq guild hard. Instead of giving me 200 mats for my first few settlements give me 50.

[magic fern]

Ehhh, I think that's probably a bad idea

Participation is already minimal - I'd rather they be frontloaded to get more people at least trying to kill me

If the end result doesn't change, then keep the system that encourages participation as much as possible

[manic ginkgo]

Was it not set up that way intentionally to discourage players like us from taking and keeping everything in the first place?

[leaden birch]

I'm at max orn & mat rewards and 37 proofs with 1200 T10 crowns. Others are just duplicate. 1200 crowns is basically 600 km road. So yea, 10 hours.

I'm not doing RPS, just fighting over 50+ settlements several times a week. Proofs for upkeep cheap that way.

So yea, infinite rewards.

I'm definetly not doing enough prang or tower farms to be even with this one.

(and I'm in tower lb ...and soon to be in ang too ...)

[restive cargo]

Idk it's a gps game. Taking more and traveling should increase your rewards not diminish them to nothing lol. This encourages stationary play in a small radius. Not stagnant here at all, I could wipe everyone out daily but there's no point for me to because I don't lose or gain rewards. Hitting lvl 50 and likely dropping it because it's become pointless for me outside of rank. Old pvp rank is irrelevant if no one new sees it and you can cheese your way to the top of the new LB

[leaden birch]

Imo, the system is just too similar with old one just with better rewards and OS for lower tiers on top of it.

Caps are fine ...

[manic ginkgo]

It might not increase rewards much but it sure inflates ranking

[leaden birch]

System needs to be wider to attract more people.

[limber cargo]

-suggest daily anguish dungeon prangs and tower shard caps 🙏

[magic fern]

I think the solution then is to have taking a settlement be rewarding in ways other than the daily rewards

The rewards for winning a PvP fight have been terrible for ages

If they gave something like 10k orns, a bundle of random mats, and a chance for proofs, suddenly it's rewarding again

[manic ginkgo]

5.5M isn’t enough, give us 10k more?

🤔

[golden drum]

Not really a fan of caps, if the rewards would be too high lower them appropriately but think rewards should be comensurate with activity

[restive cargo]

That's actually a good suggestion and would likely encourage players to hit those of you in places where there's not much action - unless no one plays orna by you

[novel plinth]

TBF, many games’ PvP rewards are (a) terrible, (b) cosmetic only, and/or (c) usable only in PvP. There are good reasons for this:

• PvP is a playstyle that, in many games (arguably including Orna), has zero interest to a large portion of the player base. Trying to incentivize these players into PvP with high-quality rewards tends to result in these players either doing it but not having fun, or not doing it and feeling bad about it. Neither is great for retention of these players.
• Among players who do enjoy PvP, many will do it even if there are no rewards, because they enjoy it. It’s a flex to them.

[restive cargo]

From what I've heard orna was way more pvp oriented in the past. It was the determining factor of your global rank and then it was changed and tons of the pvp'ers quit

[magic fern]

It also languished for years which didn't help

[steep gazelle]

Let's go back in time and see!

#game-announcements message

This was when guilds (a category that the Conqueror's Guild is, obviously, a part of) were first announced as the vehicle through which Play Your Way would be implemented. It's a long message, so I'll quote the relevant bits.

"Early 2023 marked a big push to fill a gap in the endgame, and now we've been shifting focus into a content platform that can benefit all or multiple tiers in parallel. This platform is called 'Guilds' and it is under our 2023 headline of 'Play Your Way'.

At their heart, Guilds are a structured way to play the parts of the Orna RPG games you enjoy most, and be rewarded in a consistent manner to those who enjoy other parts of the game."

While, yes, not all guilds have equal potential in reward farming speed, none have the disparity of the Conqueror's Guild in terms of grind time spent being significantly greater than the rewards you earn. So first, because Conqueror's Guild is a guild, it is lumped into the vision that was cast for all guilds, namely "... be rewarded in a consistent manner to those who enjoy other parts of the game." Second, it can't easily be argued that because of it's significantly later release (when compared to other guilds) that it was an outlier, black sheep, etc. when considering that the Conqueror's Guild was initially expected to be released late 2023/very early 2024 - the same year that the Play Your Way and Guild vision was announced.

So, no, this guild was pitched to be a viable option for farming because all guilds were pitched to be a viable option for farming.

[steep gazelle]

I know! My favorite was when someone thought he knew better than ol' Starless/MobileWonder about Summoner viability in territory control. Then, he was floored when presented with the credentials xD

[steep gazelle]

I'm good at 50 Ascensions for now (; I'm diversifying and ascending three classes to 50 or so before moving on

[steep gazelle]

Never as an amazing means, but as one that rewards your time if that is your preferred way to play. See my above message, it makes that clear. Guilds in general, and thus the Conqueror's Guild, are supposed to fit that ticket. Right now, the soft cap is too harsh to reward you if it is your current preferred way to play.

[pale notch]

What would be your proposed change? No caps?

[steep gazelle]

This is especially disappointing. If my preferred strategy is defense, we should be able to get multiple crownguards per day. You're taking away other rewards you could be getting purely to focus on defense.

[steep gazelle]

1. Change the bizarre way that Contested Settlements work in order to make more sense.
2. Either restructure the rewards so you can have linear progression that makes sense for time spent or reduce the severity of the soft cap.

Without fixing #2, you have discouraged activity in the place of "Play Your Way" and the mission that guilds were implemented for.

[pale notch]

sorry i have yet to encounter a HC settlement myself. What's bizarre about them?

[novel plinth]

Oh, literally every single settlement near me is HC

One sec

Covyn OS jumpscare

I've actually managed to take one or two of those HC settlements

A single HC settlement (emperor tier, if it matters) set to Orn rewards gives 20,000 orns per day

For the record, Yes, settlements below Emperor can be HC. Every tier in a settlement has its own value for HC.

IME it's rare for a settlement tier lower than Emperor to be HC, but I have seen it

[steep gazelle]

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. I think with orns and proofs it more than doubles all the rewards you would normally get..? @restive cargo remembers the exact numbers I think

[novel plinth]

Fair enough

[manic ginkgo]

One HC emperor crownship is worth a lot more than 20k

[rigid zephyr]

what's odd about the high contest settlements? should be in areas where they get passed between hands frequently

[novel plinth]

I can say that I personally got 20,000 orns from an HC settlement I took

[manic ginkgo]

I went from 1.5 to 5 from one HC orn settlement. I had for two days lol

1.5M to 5M

[novel plinth]

Apparently "proximity to your OT" also affects rewards

[golden drum]

I think HC should multiply the reward for that settlement not the cap generally. Strange implementation imo

[steep gazelle]

It's also really strange in other ways: Let's say the T9 crown is highly contested, but T10 is not. If I own the T9 and the T10, I will not get the HC rewards because it only chooses rewards from your highest crown. That's another super weird thing.

[novel plinth]

That could explain why you and I are getting different numbers

[pale notch]

I wouldn't really consider that wierd. Conquerors guild aims to always have inleague players at an advantage, I don't really find it wierd that higher tier players don't get additional rewards for bashing on lower tiers.

[steep gazelle]

So, Yoshi, long story short is if you want anything resembling big numbers in any kind of way, you have to get 1 highly contested settlement in that category, or you are severely capped. Then, once you get that contested settlement (provided you don't own a higher league crown on that settlement) your numbers shoot WAY up if it's not capped at 1.

Wait wrong yoshi

[steep gazelle]

No, but if it's the only one that you're getting competition on and you are participating, I think you should be rewarded for that before it inevitably gets taken again. It's especially an accomplishment in T9 because T9 players STEAMROLL Othersouls.

Tl;dr in most scenarios, Highly Contested settlements act as a multiplier. An additive would make more sense.

[steep gazelle]

The manner in which they increase rewards and the way you could, technically, get nothing at all from them if you either choose the wrong reward or own a higher league than the contested one.

[novel plinth]

I should add that I've been coming here almost every day for over a week, and the holder of those "High Contest" settlements pictured in that vid has not changed.

So, idk how "High Contest" is defined but it seems to require <1 turnover per 7-8 days

Unless, I guess, someone is flipping them in the middle of the night and then this guy is flipping them back first thing in the morning, and I'm thus not seeing it

But if that's the case, it's arguably an exploit

I hope that's not the case. Too many games' PvP gets ruined by coordinated win-trading.

[agile pike]

A lot of people in my area actually interact with conq guild but lots of them lose interest because of AL disparity. Im only AL 51 rn

I think the reward cap on conq guild could definitely use further tweaking once NF is ready to make those changes

But it favors those with higher ALs once again. Almost like quadratic scaling of rewards

(in addition to those who are more mobile, ofc, which fair play)

[low kite]

IIRC Odie talked about removing ability to alt play for settlements. Was suggested at conq released

[steep gazelle]

If I recall, every crown gives the same reward, but you can only gain rewards from one of the crown. So if a high AL somehow manages to completely shut you out, move onto the lower crown where you're on an equal playing field. If you own one and they own one, you both get the same reward.

[novel plinth]

Im only AL 51 rn
I'm AL 7, lmao. It's rough down beneath.

[agile pike]

Its all relative 😅

[steep gazelle]

Hey, getting awesome gear is the better focus before you go hard on ascending. 2 X 0 is still 0, ya know?

[novel plinth]

Yeah, lol. I basically world-farmed my way to t10, so I have a ton of mats. Literally thousands of every mat not named Cort. (Only around 1500 Realm Ore, to be fair, but for now that's still enough if the game decides to hand me that at the Altar.)

So, I'm one of those weirdos who's level 227 and still not dressed head-to-toe in t10 gear, but has been getting ALs. ALs that don't do too much for me yet, lmfao.

[novel plinth]

I'm working on that, lol

[steep gazelle]

Have you been able to get Fey Ragnarok scrolls this event? If not, I have plenty to spare. I mostly reserve them for my kingdom, but I don't mind sharing a few with outsiders sometimes :D

[novel plinth]

I did get a few but for the moment I'm hanging onto them. (My irl situation right now is complicated, so I don't want to pop a ton of raids and then have to move before I can kill them.)

Certainly not gonna say no to the offer, but we'll probs need to schedule a time when I can get to my WV to open it.

(Also, probably ought to take this to another channel, lol)

[novel plinth]

Not that I think anyone doubted it—but just for sake of complete reporting, here. This settlement has HC on the t9 tier (and also on Emperor).

[leaden birch]

CONQUEROR GUILD HIGH-CONTEST (HC) REWARDS
To create a high contest crown in a settlement, players need to kill other players in a given crownship. There are five crownships per settlement.

• It takes 10 PvP kills to change a crownship to HC. Conquering a crownship from an NPC does not count as a PvP kill, but taking one from an othersoul does.
• We have not seen HC drop off, even after a month. But that's not to say it doesn't. It is too soon to tell that.
• It is possible that an "Upkeep" rampart resets the HC timer as well, if there is one.
• Othersouls can be used to flip a settlement to HC but does not reward your main with any multipliers or benefits.

HIGH-CONTEST (HC) MULTIPLIERS
It only takes six High-Contest crowns on your main to get the following:

• 2X materials from one HC crown with materials selected
• 4X orns from two separate HC crowns with orns selected
• 2X florins from one HC crown with florins selected
• 4X gold from two separate HC crowns with gold selected.

SOFT CAP & HARD CAP
Initially, you gain rewards very quickly, but once you hit the soft cap limit, you gain them much more slowly until you hit the hard cap:

• 25 proofs (soft cap), 41 proofs (hard cap), no HC multipliers, but one HC crown will add 6 proofs to your total.
• 1000 materials (soft cap), No known hard cap, one 2X multiplier. Soft cap is 1/25th the reward rate per crown.
• 1,375,000 orns (hard cap). No known soft cap, two 2X multipliers (4X).
• 100 and 300 florens (soft caps), no known hard cap, one 2X multiplier.
• One Shrine (hard cap), no soft cap. No HC multipliers.
• One Crownguard (hard cap), no soft cap. No HC Multipliers.
• One Item (hard cap), no soft cap. No HC Multipliers.
• No soft cap or known hard cap for gold, two 2X multipliers (4X).

Yes, it is more complicated than that...and I agree this part is weird. Also it is sad that having more than those amount of HC settlements has no meaning.

[novel plinth]

^ It has some meaning in the sense it gives you a backup if one is taken

Which, if they're really HC, should be expected to happen

You're overinsured

[leaden birch]

I own 10+ of some tho.

[novel plinth]

As a player at a level where I do struggle to take crowns from players 23 levels and 50+ ALs above me, I do appreciate that there's an incentive for those players to not go super hard holding everything in the city.

I don't necessarily think it stops them, lol. But it's something.

[leaden birch]

And it is not?

Idk if you see this one:

If you get 2000 mats per day, that makes 32.25 of each mat (62 mats total).

Knight recently did some mats weight for AL. He took out all mats that you can buy or are easily obtainable and give them zero. So if I took the remaining materials (33 of them) and take their value in prangs/shards - you will get 514 prangs / 102.9k shards a day. 🙂

= 3x ANG20 towers or 37 ANG50 dungeons.

That's like 1 hour of farming a day. Just for the materials. And it takes ~10 hours to take those amount of settlements and you are there. I'm not farming those amount of towers or dungeons and I'm in top #200 world leaderboard. So you are getting same rewards - daily - as players in ~top200.

In a year that accumulate for my 360 hours of farming!

The current rewards would have to be limited to dust to make it linear. So like only top players would end with something like 3000 mats at top at 10.000+ T10 crowns. 🤷‍♂️

Which is still way too much mats for way too low amount of crowns. That's still 100 hours of farming crowns, giving you life time amount of mats/orns that so much ahead of farming I'm able to do in a year.

It should end somewhere. Soft cap is really needed there. And imo right now total amounts are fine. Only tuning is needed in HC. And if you want to make it harder for players, then rewards for single settlements should be (way) lower so it takes more time to get to cap. 😉

[mossy moat]

Un-cap our rewards and pay us. That's all I have to say about that... ✌️

[leaden birch]

Yes pls, 10k mats and 50mil orns a day for those in top. Reasonable request. You missed it by few hours tho.

[mossy moat]

I've missed nothing; been here the whole time...

[leaden birch]

April was yesterday.

Don't get me wrong. If they will offer me more rewards - either here or irl, I will take it. But I myself will not make a quote to anyone where I end up getting $500 an hour because imo it's not fair or right. 🤷‍♂️

[manic ginkgo]

The ultimate cap should be the same whether or not a player has high-contest settlements. Otherwise it just punishes players in low activity areas.

[leaden birch]

HC should give just smth like Xtimes normal crown rewards, nothing else. That I agree.

[golden drum]

Do we think caps could be removed if the rewards were lowered? Imo the current system is akin to you get 100 prangs per dungeon but can only run 5 a day.

[leaden birch]

Why not take it as it is, 14 prangs per dungeons and run 37 of them daily. Cuz not many ppl do that kind of farming. 🤷‍♂️

[golden drum]

Why not cap all systems and only reward us for 1 hour of play a day? Because I enjoy playing the game and I'd rather continue to be rewarded for the system I chose to play that day rather than extrinsic motivation be eliminated after X interactions.

I think there's definite middle ground here. The high rewards and capped system don't have the same progression as basically any other of the games guilds.

[manic ginkgo]

The high contest value is too high considering there are entire regions in which there are only a handful of active players.

My regular gameplay happens in a 50km radius including a city population 600,000. It’s very low activity. I don’t see any local active t10+. Occasionally someone will pass through but not often enough to have created a single high-contest settlement.

If its that slow in my area, imagine what it’s like for players like Waleke from south africa who has been #1 in his regional leaderboard from the day he started playing.

[leaden birch]

Lucky me ...I live in city of 150k and battling with 2 other AL100+ players. And several lower ALs. In our capitical 100 km away (1.2mil) we have couple more AL100+ players and A LOT of 50-100 AL. We had whole czech republic divided pretty much between like 10 players with similar power and 10-15k rep for everybody... 😅

Again, HC shouldn't do anything with cap. Just have higher base rewards. 🤷‍♂️

[novel plinth]

Okay I’ll add my anecdata here. Apparently the city I’m currently in had a population of just a smidge over 755,000 in 2023. That makes it closer to Skott’s than Gurnnink’s (though larger than either’s).

We have lots of HC settlements, though I actually don’t know how many high-AL players because those HC settlements don’t ever seem to turn over.

Additionally to the video and screenshots I’ve posted above, I know of two other well-known players who play in this area. Neither seems to be especially into Conq Guild competition, though. One of them, I know is in my region but I’ve never seen in a settlement—so they’re either not participating in Conq Guild or just not in this city. The other, I know does participate in Conq Guild and has a 4-digit (iirc) Reputation, but seems to avoid HC settlements; they’re significantly higher level than me but their souls are weak, and I can take their settlements easily when I find them—which suggests they may be collecting mostly “backwoods” settlements that are easy to hold on account of remoteness. Not HC at all.

[manic ginkgo]

I put in far more GPS gameplay by traveling all over “cheesing” the guild with rps than the players who happen to live or work on a high contest settlement. Yet their potential rewards are much higher than mine.

[karmic tartan]

Playing devil’s advocate here: if HC just increases that specific settlement’s rewards, won’t it be borderline useless for everyone that isn’t living in a very active city like yours?

[leaden birch]

Yep, that's why they should change...which I said already several times? Multipliyng whole amount above limit is just silly. They should just gives several times normal crown amount of rewards, not affecting caps at all. 🤷‍♂️

[low kite]

It may be the solution I agree

[novel plinth]

One of the Grand Duke settlements that was not HC in the video I posted yesterday, has become HC today.

It did flip since yesterday.

[leaden birch]

Well that is only problem at my side. But this whole convo was started cuz ppl dont like current soft/hard caps and would like linear rewards. Imo that would require huge nerf in current rewards, so people on top wouldnt get thousand of mats each day. And on the other side, people with just few hundreds or thousands of crowns would get really small rewards .. 🤷

Some proper curve with dimishing returns would have to be introduced.

[novel plinth]

(That player holds almost all the t9 settlements around here, to be fair. They're gradually snapping up the few they don't already own. They're actually a t9 player - likely as not restrained there - and most othersouls don't have a chance in hell of beating them.)

[low kite]

Totally agree

[steep gazelle]

I'd say it's ... viable-ish. I know the numbers, I'd factored all of this into my fiirst message, and here's why I'm still in opposition.
I've put many, many more hours than 10 into the guild. ~5% of my time was spent reaching the soft cap. ~95% of my time has been spent negligibly exceeding the soft cap. Does that match the vision for guilds, which is "be rewarded in a consistent manner to those who enjoy other parts of the game." No. Though it is relevant to my counterpoint, that's not the point you're arguing. So, let's get into the numbers.
First (though it may seem irrelevant), I do disagree with being able to keep your rewards at maximum through resetting stat decay. If that were done away with, it would curb a lot of concerns. It was originally stated that one objective was to keep people taking remote areas and then harvesting materials forever. The method by which that would be accomplished was revealed to be much like territories, where prolonged inactivity in that territory meant the rewards deactivated. When the stat decay was found to keep your rewards at maximum, it undermined that vision. I think rewards remaining active should be settlement activity based like we were told it would be. It would prevent this the-sky-is-the-limit for the farmers of remote areas. Tone the deactivation way down from ten days, certainly, but make them deactivate if nobody visits the settlement.

Secondly, I agree with you that HC settlements working as a multiplier. They should not double your current rewards. Since I would see that changed, I'm not factoring numbers of ~2,000 into my ultimate argument. I'm concerned with the artificial, arbitrary 1,000 soft-cap. I'm also concerned about the bizarre orn/proof/item/crownguard hard cap, but materials are most consistently brought up, so let's focus on that.
Again, I've far exceeded 10 hours into Conqueror's Guild so far, yet I do not see the same number of what my "expected" settlement count and return would be. This is not because the calculations are necessarily wrong, but because time calculated is not as simple as time to "take a single crown and tap a new one" multiplied by number of crowns you have. For one, likely most players are not consistently moving in a straight line and taking single crowns. For two, there are plenty of entire-mile stretches with no settlements at all. Time spent is not as simple as it's made out to be, distance-wise nor time-wise. While some players, yes, do have the luxury of moving in a straight line for a living (and thus have their experiences look closer to that simple time calculation), that's their lifestyle and that's okay. They miss out on a lot of other content that us roots-down Orna players have the luxury of indulging in. Your lifestyle dictating what type of content you are able to engage in is fine. The reason it's fine does beckon my next point, however.

Thirdly, these numbers are missing the most most important thing about Conquerors Guild rewards: They are volatile. And they are volatile for reasons that are difficult to quantify, but if not considered very much allow data to be used in a biased manner. Rewards are volatile due to other player involvement. For example, a player was on about a 12-hour trip and he seemed to be moving in a straight line and fighting almost the entire time. About 1 hour of that trip was through my area. Then what happened? I already had a trip scheduled in myself, in about a week. All of the highway ride from my trip, which consisted of 7 hours, was on his 12-hour stretch of driving. He lost most of it. In order for him to reach, literally, the exact same place his rewards were before, he is going to have to spend more than 7 hours again if he takes the same route. (I say "more" because he was fighting NPCs the first time. It will take probably two trips to fully clear me out.) If he does not, all he will have profited are the rewards he got for finishing each battle and the seven days of rewards he managed to acquire for that stretch of road. [Bonus points: If he had already reached the soft cap when he began that trip, the rewards on that 7 hours were, essentially, nothing. So, that's either 14 hours to acquire and then reacquire significant rewards (if the former), or 14 hours to make barely any progression in the guild (if the latter).]

Every explanation I've seen does not factor this in because you cannot quantify the variables that make this volatile: how long it will be before another player goes through that area, how much of their path will line up with an area you have conquered, and how successful they will be at conquering each settlement. Conqueror's Guild, to a degree, is a gamble. Rewards are temporary while other guilds are not. You could lose most of it. You could not. You will always lose some of your settlements. Regardless of if you lose all, some, or most, CG is only going to be in line with the guild mission statement, if you most desire to spend time conquering because it is your favorite thing, progression has to feel consistent with the time you could be spending in other guilds. At the moment, it is not consistent. The Conqueror's Guild puts you and everyone else on an airport ... erh, moving-floor-thingy(?), gets almost everyone to the same exact place, and then immediately halts you to a standstill. Volatility, artificial & arbitray caps, keeping rewards active ... Considering all these and more, I can't say any numbers nor arguments have converted me yet. The rewards would not need to be nerfed to dust and they wouldn't be lifetime. Unconvinced, I'll keep advocating these rewards need a serious rework. /:

[ornate gate]

It has never been stated that progression should be equal or even close to equal across all guilds. Conqueror's guild was designed primarily as a territory redesign with one aspect being that it would be more rewarding than old territory. It has achieved that goal.

That being said, high contest settlement mechanics are far from ideal imo.

[manic ginkgo]

There are so many positive changes. Having to fight AI instead of just press ‘claim’ in unexplored areas. Othersouls are just fun. Having a way to interact with settlements you already own with rps. Players who cannot win crownships at all can stay competitive in the guild with RPS. Guild proofs are reward too, not just the daily claim.

[steep gazelle]

I've already covered how the Conqueror's Guild falls in line with the mission of guilds in general in an earlier message. What I said in the message you replied to was a direct quote from the studio. If you're not interested in the messages I pulled from guilds's initial inception in 2023, the tl;dr is the goal of guilds, not some of the guilds, not one of the guilds, but guilds, were word-for-word stated to reward you for the part of the game you prefer to play (provided there is a guild for it) in a way that is consistent with the rest of the content in the game (provided there is a guild for it).

Edit: I did not mean my tone to come across as passive aggressive, my intended tone is matter-of-fact/plainly stated (:

[steep gazelle]

Yes!! I have been loving these changes since beta :D

[feral pawn]

I have an area of effect question-
I understood that the area from which rewards are calculated, are the region your OT is in.
Any settlements outside, don't count into your reward.
Maybe I understood it wrong.

I flew around the word to be as far as possible from my home country (literally 12 hours timezone difference) and the Conquerer's Guild daily reward was 0.
I conquered in this new region a bunch.(+1900)

Then, I flew to a place in the same time zone, yet 2 regions away on the regions map, and it seems my rewards weren't zeroed out, but kept growing as I kept conquering.(+500)
My OT was moved and have been in this last place, 2 regions away from the last, for 3 days, so I don't think the game didn't update my location yet.

What area exactly is taken into the rewards calculation?

[leaden birch]

Well, I've already expressed my part several times in this thread - both about changing the current rewards and what it would bring to others, and about HC settlements. If you implement some sort of dimishing return without cap, it would have to be very strict to keep people like you from getting 200 proofs and 10k materials a day or even 5k. At the same time, it will probably reduce rewards for people whose job title isn't "driving through the states" or who don't play behind the wheel (which I hope is the majority, but I know a few).

So just:

• Delete upkeep;
• Change HC to 10x normal crown rewards with no manipulation to cap;
• Delete caps;
• Bring down rewards to 1/2 of their amount per crown.
  = That way you would probably be a bit over 2k mats and majority players who are there with upkeep would be under 1k 🙂 , but there will be linear progress and no upkeep or HC interfere.

Also, most of your responses are semi-legal gibberish where you play with words. You're also taking someone's word for it and using it as if it were set in stone.

I guess this is up to Odie if and how he accommodates you.

[ornate gate]

I was not replying to you directly just making a statement relevant to the conversation. You are cherrypicking a quote from relatively early in the inception of guilds. The studio has sense clarified dozens of times their vision for each guild and guilds over all and how it fits into play. If they meant Conqueror's guild to be an equally rewarding means of ascension progression to Anguish or Towers, then it would be. This quote from Dangy says it best i think.

"Play your way isn't meant to infer that all content should be equal, it's a comment on how we're adding rewards to the stuff that people were already engaging in"

[steep gazelle]

Oh, okay! I hadn't known it was more general. I wouldn't call the opening mission statement cherry picking, but I hadn't seen this quote from Dangy and I will check it.

[golden drum]

To be fair, I think in its current state the conquerors guild is equally rewarding, and for many players may be more rewarding for the time. The issue I see is with the structure.

If you invest 5 hours into conquerors guild vs. 5 hours into anguish, Conquerors guild will be more rewarding over time, but once you pass say 10 hours, Anguish rewards will continue to increase while Conquerors guild hits a brick wall.

[manic ginkgo]

Is comparing a brand new guild to one thats already out the door really fair?

[feral pawn]

I assume that with the ability to get greater and greater gear, the anguish guild's rewards potential will increase dramatically for anguish-able players

[golden drum]

Anguish was just an example here, you can plug in Titanfelled, Seers, or Fishing to make the same point. And I'm a little skeptical that new Anguish will be less rewarding long-term.

[steep gazelle]

Yes, hence the analogy about the moving walkway. It gives me the feeling that the guild is meant to help cover the ascension disparity by pumping materials into more players every day, not be continuously engaging for the people who enjoy it. That may or may not be true, but when something feels so artificial and arbitrary, it's hard not to think about things like that.

[steep gazelle]

If I remember correctly, we were told that settlements farther from your Origin Town have diminished rewards. I haven't seen anything about losing rewards entirely at a certain distance.

[crimson field]

I lost all my rewards from a location that was a 4hr drive away

Upkeep restored my rewards

#1320070265710841979 message

I believe all settlements count towards rewards, but settlements further away contribute less over time. That decay affects rewards, not just hp

[leaden birch]

You get reward from visit settlement for 10 days. Then nothing. Visiting by you (aka pass by) reset timer. Upkeep reset timer.

Settlements that gives rewards always are in small 0.1x0.1 degree area around you OT.

If you want all the infos about rewards, decay, HC and many more check the PIN in conquer guild section in OL discord.

(go to the pinned msg, as it is long and continue below that pin...)

[versed crystal]

i wish how settlements work was how coliseum worked.

Exploration is awful - it never resets like the flavor text implies, the areas never move and are too big for walking. it's a one time feature with zero game impact. OG nausea fishing is better than exploring now

[ashen moth]

The exploration fights do change .

[feral pawn]

Can you explore the same area twice?
That's what I understand from the text- monster invasion interprets in my head into a new fight in the same area I already explored

[ashen moth]

No, you cannot explore the same area more than once.

[lucid moon]

I hit hard cap of 1,375,000 Orns on my 10th day. Bear in mind, I put in an insane amount of effort early on. Those 10 days included a pair of 8-hour trips and probably an average of between 3-4 hours every other day. I figure about 45 hours of driving and farming during that time.

Because I have been trying to come up with reward equations based on crowns held, I can tell you that I maxxed out Orns on November 10th when I had 4557 experience and 3875 total crowns. However, many of my crowns were from taking between 2-5 tiers of each settlement. According to my most recent studies, you can hit hard cap on Orns by owning a single crown on 500 separate settlements with Orns selected as the reward. (More crowns per settlement do NOT get you more rewards.)

[lucid moon]

Not entirely true. Upkeep cost hits hard cap at 300 proofs. That means you must obtain 300 proofs every 10 days (30/day). This is from crowns you can take or R-P-S games that you win. 30 wins at R-P-S is at least an hour. (10 hours in 10 days). 30 crowns from empty settlements can be as quick as 15 minutes... but you need to find empty ones... which gets more and more difficult as you own more and more. Still, that's only 2.5 hours in 10 days, which isn't as bad. I do both.

So, it isn't free. There is a maintenance cost in hours played.

[lucid moon]

On Floor 338 of an Endless Dungeon, I killed one Berserk Fallen Beowulf and was rewarded with 5,039,999 orns. Two button presses which took me several seconds. So, equating the effort required to obtain 300 proofs in 10 days against that, it seems much easier to run Endless Dungeons if it is all about the Orns. Considering the hours of effort to hit my current rewards, orns cap out too quickly and at too low of an amount.

Remember that not everyone can create/take a high-contest crown, so the cap for them is only 1,375,000 orns daily. I think that's a little stingy.

[lucid moon]

Actually, HC crowns (which can also be created on tiers other than Emperor) double your total normal orns. You can get two HC crowns and you would get 4X your normal orn rewards. Two is the limit... you can't get 8X for three HC crowns.

[lucid moon]

I can confirm this is true.

[lucid moon]

Proof HCs are additive. You get six proofs for owning a Proof HC crown. Limit of 1.

[lucid moon]

Nope. Once a crown becomes HC, it stays HC.

[steep gazelle]

I thought it was a multiplier with some nuance? At cap, it multiples, otherwise it's additive?

[lucid moon]

Didn't happen. It was pointed out that kids can share an adult's phone and that would lock them out of CG play.

[lucid moon]

Once a crown flips 10 times total, it becomes HC forever.

[novel plinth]

That seems…bad? Doesn’t that imply every crown will be HC eventually?

[lucid moon]

Find your Origin Town on a map of the world that has a 1x1 degree grid. The box that surrounds your origin town is the area you lose when upkeep is no longer active. Go to Ramparts/Upkeep and buy Upkeep with Proofs. You will restore 100% rewards for all held settlements for exactly 240 hours (10 days). The cost of that upkeep matches the number of crowns you hold, with a minimum of 40 and a maximum of 300.

[steep gazelle]

Not the ones on Mama Boudreaux's side of da bayou where she makes her special roux. Nobody goes out there.

[lucid moon]

Nope. It doesn't matter if you own one proof crown or one hundred.
If you get an HC proof crown, you add 6 to your total daily reward.
If you get more HC crowns, you don't get anything extra.

[steep gazelle]

So it was the orns that were multiplicative of the cap?

[lucid moon]

That's like saying six years ago that all the legacy territories in the old system would eventually be owned by someone. It never happened. I actually see very few HC crowns, except along interstate highways. I don't think we will ever see too many of them except in large urban areas where there is naturally more fierce fighting... which deserves more rewards in my opinion.

[lucid moon]

Check the pinned messages here: https://discord.com/channels/748188991852904621/1271491073432223774
I updated my original pinned posts today and added two new pinned posts on reward amounts.
Multiplier descriptions are still accurate.

[leaden birch]

I didn't make much screenshots. I also don't have such opportunity to make any such trips...or to take settlements during them if I do some. That being said, I had 3600 crownships 14 days after release (which was maxed materials, as it is only thing that I care about...and 3,3mil orns and 31 proofs). And those included pretty much even number of all tiers, which I could take only in THREE ~120 km long ways. TWO of those was only back and forth trip, so a lot of gaps (and ~8 hours). One of them almost fully taken, so let's say 2x back and forth ways, so another ~8 hours. Give or take 20 hours to hit this number, prioritizing taking whole settlement (turning off GPS, take whole settlement, etc.). So yes, someone not doing this last part, just going, focusing on higher tiers crowns in his sight ....full orn/mat rewards in 10 hours. Possible. 🤷‍♂️

(looking at it, I had ~1280 crowns after 1st of those 120 km long back and forth trip...so after 4 hours)

[novel plinth]

This is super minor, but it would be nice if “Floren pile” were automatically subbed with a different reward when one isn’t in a kingdom.

I just took several below-Emperor crownships and idec about collecting their rewards

Edge case, I know

[mellow nebula]

Hey all, I have a good amount of settlements, 40-50 buuuuut it seems like no matter how many I have the amount of crowns I get is capped at 12

[sharp spade]

is it a bug if the Oversoul is using Defend skill even if the offhand skill is available in pvp defense?

For example, my oversoul is using a 2h weapon with an offhand ability like slice and yet it is using defend in pvp defense

and my oversoul doesnt use the offhand ability at all

[rigid zephyr]

There's a soft cap, probably so people with thousands don't get an overwhelming amount more than people without

[novel plinth]

Crap, I wish I’d gotten a screenshot but it happened so fast I didn’t realize it had happened:

Ties go to the attacker in Conq Guild.

What happened here was, he killed me, at the same moment he died to DoT. I thought I’d lost, because in PvE that would go to the person whose turn it was. (That is, in PvE, it would’ve killed the target—me, in this case—and left him alive with 1 HP, but it would’ve counted as him winning the fight.)

In Conq Guild, apparently that’s not a “win” for either side. It gave me 1 Exp and no other rewards, which is standard for a PvP draw. But it also gave me the crownship, which I did not expect.

(Bonus, this happened after a lucky Parapet several turns prior.)

[bold plinth]

Negative. It doesn’t just go to the attacker. It depends on what’s going on.

[novel plinth]

Well, I trust you know more than me

But it went to me this time, at least

And I’m still not quite sure why

Not complaining, mind. Bit confused tho.

[feral pawn]

Enemy dying from DoT in Conquerers means victory to you, like arena and colliseum. Even if they die when they deal you a killing blow.

This is consistent from my experience.

[novel plinth]

That’s good to know. It still didn’t give me “victory rewards,” which means it recognized that it was a draw. But I’ll take it. That opens up a few more possibilities for me, lol.

[feral pawn]

I'll keep an eye out for these victories then, see if it's consistent.

[mighty hawk]

that happened to me once in legacy

[novel plinth]

Actually, thinking about this a bit more, in arena I’m 98% sure a draw does not count as a win for the player. I do arena mostly when I have a daily quest to do it, and I’m almost positive that a match which ends in a draw doesn’t increment the “Win x times in the arena” count?

Admittedly it’s only happened to me a few times, but I think I have a pretty firm memory of it happening?

[feral pawn]

In arena and the old area battles when your foe killed you but died in a dot, you won.
In war actually, you might be correct and it ends with a draw(loss) to the attacker.

[lucid moon]

You hit the soft-cap of 11 proofs at 20 crownships that have "proof" set as the reward.
After that, you need 13 more "proof" crownships to get your 12th one.
This continues at 13 crowns for each extra proof until you get to around 25.
I'm still figuring out the rate of exchange for that second soft-cap.

So, if you take another 10 (or so) "proof" crownships, you should get your 13th proof.
There is no hard cap on proofs, although it stops pretty hard at 41.

[novel plinth]

I just bought the t6 Oslo follower from the guild, and immediately got a full guild level up, from rank 8 to rank 9.

Idk if this is known behavior?

It was the second follower I’d bought. I already owned t5 Amarok.

[rigid zephyr]

If you have enough EXP to level up multiple times in a guild, it will only do one level up at a time - any update will proc the level up again

[novel plinth]

Ah, that does explain it

[rigid zephyr]

easiest to replicate with the angler's guild, since levelups early on come real easy

[novel plinth]

(I’m currently on a Greyhound, taking a lot of uncontested crowns. My reputation has quadrupled in the last 12 hours. So, yeah, likely I just earned enough to level up twice.)

Also, not that it’s any surprise, but defeating Conq Guild NPCs seems to not increment the Players Defeated counter.

[novel plinth]

What do Crownguards do, exactly?

Subtracting my current reputation from my Conqueror achievement, I’ve had 13 Crownships taken by other players, ever. (Before ~36 hours ago I’d only held a combined total of 60-70, ever.) Over half of those were taken while I was under the effect of a Crownguard.

I’d thought Crownguards made it more difficult for other players to take your Crownships, but what precisely do they do? Raise stats? Improve AI? Something else?

[leaden birch]

Multiply all stats of your OS, including HP/MP. For your main all stats excluding HP/MP. IDK exact values.

Stat screen vs battle stats during defense of my T9 OS for example:

(also while it increase HP, it only increase total, not actual ...😅 )

[ashen moth]

Quite glad it only does total. The stat increase is already a huge boon.

[elder flower]

Please refer me to the post if it already exists but I had a question on what my Othersouls would actually do in terms of their fight choices. Do they use the spells in the order that they are slotted? Do they pick and choose between spells and weapons based on some calculation? Just wondering because I feel like I have good equipment and spells but I’ve seen some other othersouls that are really strong and I’m wondering how to make mine make the same choices? And I’d caveat that by saying maybe they are making the same choices - I just don’t know.

Also add that fwiw I don’t really care so much about the orns and mats and stuff…I just mostly like the fact that there are two 250’s in my local area and the three of us battle every single day over like 10 hc areas…and I mean every day…and there is all of this great strategy as to who attacks who and when to attack during the day to bring home the trophy at the end of the day. It’s fun!

[novel plinth]

I’ve noticed that since going from <60 Crownships to >600, my daily rewards these days pretty much always contain a shrine (either Wisdom or Luck).

Has anyone found a good way to use these? In general I’m not usually collecting my Guild rewards right at the start of a big grind session, and I could but that would be kind of restrictive.

Do these shrines usually just get “wasted” for most people?

[ashen moth]

I've definitely planned around the shrine drop from the guild. Collect my rewards before I'm planning on going out to do some dungeons.
Or grab it when I have an open hour for a Shrine of Wisdom, so I can grind Arena for the boosted exp. Helped a lot these last few levels

[novel plinth]

Do Wisdom Shrines boost arena exp?

Huh, I didn’t know that. I thought arena was like floor exp in monuments. Good to know!

[ashen moth]

Not traditionally, no.

The maximum boost you can apply to Arena/PvP fights is a 1x boost, being that you cannot increase it above what it normally gives.
But because I supress my EXP gains, EXP Potions and Shrine of Wisdoms do apply, because I'm below the 1x threshold.

[novel plinth]

Ah, okay, so it helps you because of your self-imposed limitation but wouldn't help most people

Got it

[feral pawn]

I usually get conq rewards early, 6am when I wake up, and the shrine is wasted on me most often for the fear of not collecting the rewards.
I did indeed wait several times and collected rewards just after preparing several endless dungeons, hoping for a luck shrine.

If shrines would be consumables it would be AMAZING.
Or if conq rewards would be gained in each end of day if not collected manually, it would also be wonderful.

[novel plinth]

Anyone got any data on the new “Crow-feller” and “Crown-feller II” skills?

I’m guessing from the names they get a damage boost when attacking settlements? Or something like that?

[ashen moth]

They're Holy Element

Crown-feller and Crown-feller II

[novel plinth]

Interesting. I did not expect them to be elemental. That just means less effective against Deities, Heretics, and Realmies.

2400 power is probs an M1 of 2.4 though. That's nothing to sneeze at.

[rigid zephyr]

here let me test them real quick

[lucid moon]

Yes. to me, the shrines are a huge waste.
But I'm not everyone.

[novel plinth]

I feel like discussion of builds and strategy is beyond the purview of this thread—but after doing a lot of OS fights and talking to others, I do just want to mention one widely-agreed-upon balancing issue

[restive cargo]

I prefer mimic, but yeah, most run sphinx. To be fair, at all tiers most ppl are using the same pets or same few

[novel plinth]

Yeah, Lotan’s another one that’s really common, though ime not as universal as Sphinx Cub. We were just discussing this.

[restive cargo]

Followers need a look at forsure but there's so many lol. There could definitely be a reduction in followers most likely. Just need a badge adjustment

[novel plinth]

The problem (and people in the Slimes had to listen to me complain about this constantly at mid-tiers), is that at mid-tiers the PvP meta in general is pet damage. It’s not just Valhallans; an Arcanic being turtly while their pet hits for thousands per turn was the way to win KW games at t8. Etc.

[ashen moth]

lol, I run Ghost and/or Draugr Mage

[restive cargo]

I hope you took advantage of the most recent fomorian event lol. That gear can help. Doesn't seem to work on t9 though

So that may be the case everywhere

I take that back. It doesn't seem to work against summoners

But followers it does seem to help

[hard lark]

If you mean the beast taming passive, it does work on summoners

It's a really big pain in kingdom wars, too

When they switch to a loadout full of it and they just zero out your summons, with those and manti eyes

[restive cargo]

On t9 othersouls?

[hard lark]

It should work the same way

[restive cargo]

Because I couldn't see a reduction in my t9 os vs a legit summoner