(C/K)onqueror's Guild Live Beta Discussion

[zenith scarab]

If you decide you want to swap off the old system, you would just build the guild hall?

[serene dirge]

I believe they mean turn off the old system after selecting legacy. This has been answered a few times, and is something we’ll do if there is interest down the line. It is not a priority for launch

[zenith scarab]

Ahh I see!

[austere light]

Will there eventually be a way to change or add adornments to Othersouls gear once they possess it?

[opal vector]

You can change their gear at any time.

[austere light]

Yeah but what about the adornments within their gear?

[opal vector]

You'd just take it off and go change it like any other gear.

[austere light]

Gear isn't locked to the Othersouls inventory once equipped anymore?

[balmy ridge]

Its locked in the sense you can’t use it elsewhere while equipped , it’s not locked in the sense you can switch it out

[austere light]

Oh what the heck, yeah I thought each piece was completely locked to the Othersouls inventory once they equipped it. I probably just mistyped the item name I was searching for when I tried testing that part out early in the beta.

[lean hearth]

So far, I haven't seen anything in this new Conquerer's Guild which gives me any heartburn anymore. The bugs I have found are already known and I'm told they will be addressed. I look forward to playing it in Live... probably three weeks after it gets released on Android and the Apple Store finally gets around to it. 😆

[latent wave]

I want to throw in for a global cd on rewards. I know it's been talked about a lot but for those of us with hectic schedules having to plan things almost a day in advance is pretty unrealistic. We already do that for events. It's just incredibly inconvenient.

[cursive dove]

I feel like most concerns I have have been discussed so to avoiding echoing a lot of stuff that's already been said I'll focus on my main concern.
While I haven't been able to play too much of the new system it seems pretty decent and from what I've read it seems it's in a decent state and that most problems will be addressed. However I don't think ditching the old system is a good idea, at least from what I've seen is going to happen to it.
Giving players a one time option to opt in or out is eventually going to lead to the decline of the old system as the old players retire and more new players choose the new system. Territory control has been my favourite thing since starting the game. It was motivation to get better at the game so I could take down t10s that owned everything but also to explore so I could leave my mark. I'd say I own the most areas in my country having travelled all over it and it feels like it took forever and that's not even that big compared to people on the leaderboard with 5x my reputation. It's a lot of work that has only ever been done for clout and it feels like it's going to be wasted.
While I'm happy we have a new system that gives rewards and also feels competitive, I think it should compliment territory control as opposed to feeling like a replacement.
If anything I think that there should be an option in conquerors guild to toggle the old system so if you don't want to play it you can turn it off but if you change your mind you can go back to it.
TLDR:lots of work invested by players in old system, please add a system that could allow people to toggle whether they want to engage with it or not as opposed to it being a one time choice.
Unless I missed this and this is already a feature pls ping me to tell me I'm an idiot.

[serene dirge]

imo, the legacy option solves this directly - players can then engage in either system to their heart's content.

the studio has not communicated that we're ditching the old system

[cursive dove]

Aye, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but I'm thinking further down the line, if more people choose the new system over the old one, there will be less incentive to use the old one as it is less competetive. Over time there will be less and less people engaging with the old system. If there's an option for people to engage/disengage with the old system as they please as opposed to players having a one time option to engage/disengage it could keep the old system from dieing. I would be all for the new system, it's got a system that feels rewarding and it feels competitive. However, people have put so much effort in the old system and while it won't disappear overnight, in 10 years time, how many people will engage with it. As I said maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but it feels like it gives the old system a feeling that it will eventually become redundant.

[vital bolt]

What happens to the 5% stat bonus for standing on your own territory?

[serene dirge]

likely going to go

[vital bolt]

what if owned settlements (any crown) gave a 300m radius with the same buff?

[crisp condor]

So it would be luck of the draw if you get that buff?

Oh nvm you could just move irl near one, right right

[serene dirge]

perhaps it should change to an hour buff after taking either a crownship or area

[magic lion]

I thought any new characters created after release of conq guild don't get the option to go legacy and are automatically in the new system?

[serene dirge]

ideally, yes. new players don't get the current area control option for a while currently

[opal vector]

Wait, "for a while"? So they may get the option eventually?

[serene dirge]

They currently get area control at level 100, but generally can’t engage well until the 200s

[opal vector]

My bad, just woke up and read that wrong.

[pulsar spear]

But they will get to participate in the new system starting at 25 right?

T2/T3

[opal vector]

Yeah. But the purpose of what Wrecked said, is to say that the old system is dead. Because there won't be any players coming into it, it'll slowly die off. And the fact that these players know that will also dissuade people who have access from pursuing the old system as well, speeding up its downfall.

That was a bit word soupy, but I think it made sense.

[magic lion]

^^ nailed it. May not be ditching the old system (yet), but it's dead content if no new players can access it

[warm wigeon]

Its ok if it dies off but the reputation should remain

There really is nothing to be gained from the old system other than maintaining rep for leaderboard

[remote onyx]

🚢 it

[serene dirge]

Unfortunately, the current system is already dead content to new players. This is the main driver for Crownships in the conquerors guild

[opal vector]

I'm perfectly chill with the old system dying off. I don't agree with the complete lack of compensation for thousands of hours of gameplay, but that's a conversation that's been beaten to death.

On a separate topic, is there any intention to add the ability to rename settlements like we could rename areas?

[spark glade]

The current system being dead content to new players... that's a way to word the perspective I hadn't heard before, and aptly put as well

[opal vector]

I disagree with it being dead to new players being a problem. So are towers. That said, I do appreciate the new system's ability to extend itself to new players.

[wary pulsar]

There is a player I know who quit today where not being able to participate in territory control was a driving factor

(They put out a message explaining why and left the server, so I couldn't even rep the Conqueror's guild =/ )

[spark glade]

Considering when you're able to get access to territory control, the fact that a (likely) majority of known territory locations one might find around where they live has a high probability of being owned by T10/T11 players means it's kind of dead in the water. Yes there's a PvE aspect to it, but it doesn't drive things the same way.
Also, towers are near endgame to endgame content. New players don't have involvement with it

[spark glade]

Did you try reaching out anyways? Some people have settings on where they can be PM'd still. Maybe even try a hopeful friend request and let them know you come from the Orna server on the opening message

[wary pulsar]

It was only one reason of several, including IRL things, so I decided not to push. But territory control was one of the reasons.

And I think even the fact that control is now around Settlements as a building rather than circles on the map will help with the percpection of territory. Instead of "I can't own my own origin town" it's "I can't own the top crownship in the nearest settlement" - which isn't nearly the same.

[spark glade]

It's a small difference, but a noticeable one

[opal vector]

I think the major thing that caused that is that thre current system has a presumably unintended effect of "power creeping". By its nature, each territory will be taken by a progressively stronger player, without a consistent mechanism for those territories to become "weaker". Eventually, everything would have been owned by 250s with 50+ALs. That can't happen here.

[wary pulsar]

The current system has stat decay, but some players' ascensions outgrew the point where stat decay matters

[spark glade]

If I recall correctly, there is- yeah, that ^

[opal vector]

Yeah, exactly.

It kind of worked pre-AL. Even then, that stat decay was only good for about a tier down.

[wary pulsar]

I do like that the new system kind of has an emergency button that any player can spend proofs on to remove ALs from the equation. It doesn't mean the fight will be easy for them no matter what, but it lets them take whatever areas they can reach in that 30 minute time window.

[opal vector]

I like that idea, but I wish the cost were higher and the cooldown longer. Or it was a single settlement at a time. It shouldn't be a way to consistently "win the war" in my opinion, but rather a way to take a settlement here or there.

[warm wigeon]

Gursa doesnt care about stat decay

Something stupid like 70-80% chance to survive any given hit, and a big portion of that odds CAs you to a frustrating death

No wonder people quitting

[spark glade]

CA?

[wary pulsar]

Counterattack

[spark glade]

Ah...

[wary pulsar]

But I don't think GUrsa is what makes new players upset about territory

It just makes people upset in BoF

[opal vector]

CA is a problem.

We've got a pvp Discord for big events and fight nights, and I'm glad we haven't had to ban CA. No one's spammed it yet. But we'll do it asap when someone makes us.

[spark glade]

I'll be the one to say that while this is likely stuff that will need to be addressed at a different point of time since it doesn't pertain to this update... it does bring up a good point for NF to remember. They can add in many new and fun ideas to the game, but game balance does need to be struck for a lot of it to actually last, lest we lose people to the way some things are set up. But I imagine they know that pretty well and will work on balance over time

[serene dirge]

Aye, that’d be why the next balance patch is in the current Q3 roadmap

[spark glade]

Solid, can't wait to see what happens with it ^^

[west plinth]

What drives me to play is getting stronger for taking and keeping areas. Territory control becoming legacy is where I've lost motivation to play. It is also worth noting that I was already playing less with IRL priorities changing, and figured I would play more when the system gets its update.

However I don't need to quit. That's where everyone loses including me. If I don't regain interest well that's life. I've had a bloody excellent 5 years of Orna. I got back into pokemon go after losing interest in it 5 years ago and didn't expect that! So maybe Orna could seduce me again some day whether it's territory control or something else.

Maybe it could be nice if settlement name was the same as the area it's on

[opal vector]

Don't you have to take territory to rename it? That would be kind of cool for legacy players, and a complete shaft to new ones. Lol.

[west plinth]

Lol yup you do have to control the territory

Although in current beta only your OT can be renamed

[wary pulsar]

What drives me to play is getting stronger for taking and keeping areas.

I believe the sticking point here is that many of us longtime players have a 3, 4, or 5 year headstart on the 100s of hours needed to get strong enough. (or hundreds of days 😅 )

[west plinth]

Yeah 100% XD and it sounded like the devs are not fond of area density which I understand

[wary pulsar]

That's what drove me to get stronger too, but at that time I was competing with a level 240 Deity. Which by 2020 metrics was a fairly strong lategame player

I first killed him by using sleep dart and spamming lunge on Arcanic. That doesn't work on the people who defend territory in 2024.

[west plinth]

Mmmmm that's very true. For me it was once I got summon dead at lvl 175 and miasma. I could finally start chipping away at areas and start defeating them. Also wouldn't work against 250's in 2024

[opal vector]

I'll say a million times, I'm all for the new system, I think it's better in nearly every way. I'm just upset about the lack of compensation for the old system.

[magic lion]

Idk, I find it far easier for ppl to take territories in 2024 than a couple yrs ago. If it weren't, I'd never lose them now if I wasn't losing them much as a 20 AL heretic back then

Now a t9 summoner can pop me lmao

[opal vector]

I worked hard for my 1200ish territories, and it was my motivator to keep playing. And there are people with 10 - 100x what I have.

[wary pulsar]

Odie had suggested a potential for some kind of minor compensation, did that explicitly get thrown out?

[opal vector]

And, while we get to "keep" our territories, they don't mean anything.

[unreal lily]

The gap between new (lower tiers) and old (T11 with 100 ascensions) feels gigantic to newer players. And if they don't know or can't find the meta, it probably is an insurmountable gap.

That being said ||reiterating from the power creep discussion(s)||, they can probably make themselves deadly in very short order. Not unlike back in 2020 when being 250 was abnormal/rare, and it took months for new players to reach T10.

[wary pulsar]

You have 136 AL on Gilga, I really hope T9 summoners aren't easily taking you out 😆

[opal vector]

Yeah, it's a very real issue. Its why I flipped and I support the new system.

I think people should be able to choose to trade in their old territory to get compensated in the new. Maybe the NPCs in the settlements are all named after the person who held the territory. Maybe you can trade all your old rep in to get currency or levels in the new system, at a diminished rate.

It'd at least soothe the burn for those 50,000 territory players.

[unreal lily]

fwiw, I'm in favor of the new system. I also don't require compensation for the achievements in the old system.
I do wonder how much of the new/old gap feeling is actual v. perceived.

At any rate, I don't see NF going back to the drawing board on Conq's at this point so I'm not sure the "why" of Conq's needs a ton of discussion.

---

What are the open topics remaining?
And to NF -- what is the criteria for finishing the beta out and pushing to live? (What's missing?)

[opal vector]

Summoners break AI. Built properly, a Summoner can kill almost anything.

[west plinth]

Hahahaha I love the idea of the NPCs having my name. Perfectly sinister 🙂

[wary pulsar]

I'm really looking forward to a fresh guild leaderboard, otherwise I'd suggest every 1 rep should be converted to 1 guild xp

[opal vector]

I think it's a neat concept. Wrecked can still haunt all of his old territories, even if only in name.

[west plinth]

As cool as the NPC names would be, maybe it's trickier to implement than something like adding guild xp based on reputation.

[opal vector]

I think there's a lot of options, if Odie wants to consider compensation.

I dunno if that's being considered or not.

[west plinth]

Also in favour of the new system, even though it's controlling buildings not areas. I hope it might get updates to feel like area control in future. I feel compensation for current areas/achievements would be nice but not necessary.

[opal vector]

I just think it'd ease the pain of losing thousands or tens of thousands of territories.

[west plinth]

A tip of the hat to the conquerors of old 🎩

[opal vector]

Again, we get to "keep" our territories, but it's kind of depressing watching our great kingdoms slowly decay into disuse. I'd potentially prefer to be able to cash in all of my territory for some form of compensation.

Even if it's teensy, it's something.

[spark glade]

The guild exp idea isn't a bad one

[opal vector]

Even at a severely diminished rate, it's something in my opinion.

[spark glade]

Though I imagine if it's not 1-to-1 with your reputation vs exp compensated you'll get people complaining that it's not what they should have gotten. But for those with tens of thousands of territories controlled there really should be a limit

[opal vector]

Also, if compensation was announced that mattered even a little, you might be able to start a big mad dash for territory, sending the old system out with a hell of a last hurrah.

People will complain no matter what you do. It's just about trying to do your best for each party yanno?

Give them 20 to 1. 🤷‍♀️ Or something starting at 1 to 1, with diminishing returns the more territory you have.

[spark glade]

Oh, for sure. I'm just pointing out the inevitability. Though a balance of something like X to 1 isn't a bad way of doing it either

[serene dirge]

Exploration + Tutorials are the big rocks remaining

[unreal lily]

excited to see the exploration implementation.
Can I press for an ETA or... nah? 😅

[serene dirge]

I'm not sure I understand the sentiment of new system lacking the motivation to get stronger / keep areas - at the end of the day, it incentivizes keeping them moreso than old system, no?

[serene dirge]

few days to week, i estimate

[unreal lily]

oh... here's a question.

Say you're a lower-tier player and you take a lower-tier crownship.
Nobody takes it from you, you play a lot, you level up.

Then you enter a new tier, and take a new tier's crownship.
Are you in there twice? Is your low-tier crownship now a fight against your current high-tier self?

[serene dirge]

if you've tiered into another league crownship, an othersoul automagically takes your place in the lower leaguecrownship

[unreal lily]

Glad it was already thought of. Didn't even occur to me until now (only been thinking of it as a T11 with 4 othersouls, or as a lower-tier fighting other lower-tiers/OSs but not themselves leveling up).

[zenith scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-gif-26166638

[serene dirge]

how did you get a gif of my othersoul

[zenith scarab]

AutoMAGICally

[unreal lily]

That's an ancient programming term nowadays. I think the first time I ever saw it was in the O'Reilly book for the Ruby programming language back in like 2008 or something. 😵‍💫

[serene dirge]

why are you aging me

[west plinth]

It's all in the theme of what I'm interacting with and the perception it creates. In the old system we're interacting with an avatar that asserts control of a marked area in the overworld.

Old system = area control
New system = building control

[serene dirge]

what if i told you there was a building in the center of the areas in the current system?

[west plinth]

Tbh I might have a super fun time with settlements once it's live. I can only talk from nostalgia vs expectation of the new thing, where the new thing is fundamentally different to what I expected. I'll see how I like it once everyone in the live game starts fighting over areas.

In beta I haven't run into other players, though I didn't play in the more competitive areaz

[west plinth]

Mind blown 😛 that's true it's basically what the current system is. I believe it's the theme of that building that I'm addicted to; the building represents me or another player to challenge. But it's more than that, it's also having visible area boundaries in the overworld

It makes me see that I control a marked section of the world, and gives me manic ego trip feelings as my control grows

[serene dirge]

fair point. from my perspective the boundaries were too frequent to be meaningful, but i get it

[west plinth]

That's fair. Fighting areas while being a passenger has been frantic. Less frequent areas and more meaning is definitely a welcome change

I appreciate your understanding

[serene dirge]

right - a few less control points means more weight to each of them, maximizing dopamine and sense of ownership

like owning a faberge egg vs a pez dispenser

[west plinth]

Orna = Faberge egg
Pogo = pez dispenser. Like its a good one, but it's a pez dispenser

[opal vector]

I liked the feeling of owning land. It was cool to tell someone, "I own this place". It satisfies the unreasonable millennial desire to own land one day.

[west plinth]

Interesting to see what will come for exploration. Kliktu NPC for tutorials?

[warm wigeon]

This

And as i always follow the comment - ALs are a full on separate issue / conversation. New system is good!

[crisp condor]

My dopamine

[desert zenith]

For each territory, if a settlement exists in that area, give crown of appropriate tier. Only give one crown per territory even if there are more settlements. That would be acceptable I think for the last 4 years of taking territory. Perhaps cap it as a % of territories held over x crowns. No idea if the servers can do the calculations in a timely manner for everyone on conversion

[cursive solar]

I'm kinda surprised how lucrative the settlements seem to be. Some players get upset as it is with the current paltry rewards when you dethrone them. I feel like it might be better to have the rewards for taking settlements instead of defending them to encourage turnover.

[remote onyx]

That would instantly kill the feature in areas with less players

[cursive solar]

There is a system for NPCs to take back territory settlements.

[remote onyx]

Only the ones around your OT

[pulsar spear]

Has anyone seen or confirmed that NPC attack yet?

I waited over a week of no actions in beta and still didn't have anything happen

[zenith scarab]

Nope, I've barely done anything in weeks, had some territories for a month now. Nothin

[gentle idol]

Damn, I still feel my countless hours travelling and arguing with my wife will all go to trash now. 5 f years xD

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-bunny-crying-sad-face-tears-heartbroken-gif-3296936911008844160

[rapid fossil]

Hey, I use that term and I'm probably like 50 years younger than Odie

[pulsar spear]

The technical term is "it has an added layer of abstraction" Automagically was something I have been using since Cold Fusion in the early 2000's

It really gained traction for me in the Javascript framework wars though with things like Vue, React, Angular etc..

[pulsar spear]

Basically I have learned the more abstraction and "it just works" involved the less I trust it from a security standpoint.

[open prism]

Sup! what's the current situation of Beta Testing :B? we ready to move on to live? Anguish 2.0 / Balance patch soon :v?

[serene dirge]

Exploration and tutorials are still to come before live

[pulsar spear]

Can we look into why NPC attacks haven't happened? Some of us have been inactive on purpose trying to get that to be triggered.

[orchid meadow]

Heya mate - Odie is looking at a lot of various bugs and other updates. We definitely have that one amongst many others on our radar :)

[desert zenith]

Yup likewise

[rapid fossil]

Rewards at 3,548

[remote onyx]

Isn’t that fewer mats than your last screenshot with more settlements? Did you re-prioritize other things, were mats tuned down or is this just rng variance?

[pulsar spear]

320 def seems a lot lower but could be a lot of reasons like how many have gone inactive because of non-visits

[opal vector]

With the inevitability of the new system being more competitive, has any consideration been given to increased privacy options? I'd be interested to see a delay on the notification for losing a settlement.

My only real privacy concern is someone waiting for me to take a spot, then using that to stalk/ encounter/etc.

If you wanted to know who the person is that you're doing battle with, you could take a spot and sit on the primary road through that area until they take it back.

A 1-5 minute delay on notification would almost completely solve that, and I don't think it'd be exploitable?

[rapid fossil]

I didn't change my priorities. It is fewer. What I've gathered so far is that it does seem I have hit a cap (disappointingly so, it seems no different from 1.8k which was long before materials were my #1 priority), but it has RNG that makes it vary between about 350-450. If I am correct, I hope it truly is something set to be worked on. Any cap at all: quite disappointing. A cap this early: super ultra mega disappointing.

[remote onyx]

Delays on notifications would be harsh for defenders imo, you might have already lost quite a few settlements before you even know you’re being attacked without being able to adapt

[remote onyx]

Damn, that’s what I was afraid of

[rapid fossil]

I've thought about this a lot. As someone who does a lot of taking, is sometimes paranoid about being followed, and could be very protected by this ... I still don't think it's necessary. It's a lot harder to track people than it seems. If it's a highway, there are lots of other cars to track. If it's the city streets, the frequent turns will make it hard to track.

[opal vector]

I generally agree. I'm still hella paranoid about it though.

[rapid fossil]

Me too... I've mostly brushed it aside by now, though. The incredibly, incredibly low chance that someone might follow me (0 known stalks out of 100k areas taken) seems to be outweighed by the benefit of knowing when you need to switch your loadout to defensive.

[opal vector]

I worry with the system now being much more directly useful, the very minor problem could shift to a not so minor one with increased competition.

Though I think the 400m distance will also help make things more ambiguous.

[magic lion]

If it makes you feel any better, one day brew and I were at the same light when he took one and I have no idea which vehicle he was in lol. I think your OT is a bit more of a giveaway on being able to find someone. Especially when someone lives in a very rural area and their buildings aren't private and plastered all over a field with one house in the vicinity

[rapid fossil]

...not to mention that one time you were less than 400m behind me on the highway (:

[rapid fossil]

I hadn't considered that. At least in a city, it should fix that because it will be even harder to tell.

@raven echo did you get a notification from me this morning? I didn't think I'd ever see another player in beta, much less a random T3 OS 😅

[magic lion]

And you never saw me lol. I even told you what I was driving with a kayak hanging out the back

[rapid fossil]

True! You may never have passed me, though. That was actually the exit I was planning on getting off at anyway, so I think you passed me up as I was coming to a stop at the end of the exit ramp.

though, while I was actually on the highway.*

Where did you go kayaking, anyhow? If you don't mind my asking.

[magic lion]

I took it to Destin with me to do some kayak fishing / land based shark fishing

[rapid fossil]

Ohhh! That makes sense why you saw me so much. I go to Pensacola every so often.

[magic lion]

Yeah it was pretty much you the entire way lol. A small stretch after nola that wasn't you and then when I got into Florida it was a bunch of random ppl then hit mingus for the rest of the way

[rapid fossil]

At that time, I probably owned most of Lake Charles -> Pensacola so that checks out. That's about my range

[magic lion]

Why do you come to galveston when you have Pensacola lol

That's where I hit 2 of yours last week (I think last week maybe two idk lol). Haven't driven down the seawall to the ferry in a while and you had a few in the area still

[rapid fossil]

It's partly nostalgia. I don't go as much as I used to (I last went in 2022, I think?), but my dad grew up going to Galveston every summer, so he did the same with us. The rest of my reasoning is the nice ferry ride and because Miller's Seawall Grill has my favorite fried shrimp in the world.

I think Happybug was still top dog when I last went over there

Also, I noticed that the reward collection timer is specifically expiring at midnight (my time, not utc).

[magic lion]

Ahhh, gotcha. That's cool, I slightly remember you mentioning you came here as a kid. Yeah. I think it was 2022

I collected my rewards today and got 7 crownships. Doesn't seem like you need to hold too many to max out that portion of the rewards since I only have 64 crownships

[tepid zodiac]

I'd have faith that NFS will address any bad behaviour, especially the anti social, creepy kind.

[wary pulsar]

Keep in mind you've also only been inactive for a week - that would be an awfully short period of time for NPC attacks to trigger I would think

[rapid fossil]

Rewards at 4,069

[rapid fossil]

We want to go back this fall! Our trip got cut short when my now-wife had a massive health drop because of the heat.

[somber field]

Is that daily ?

[rapid fossil]

Daily, yeah. The orns & gold seem uncapped, everything else has been the same since about 2k

Some of it has been the same since maybe 200 or so

[somber field]

2000 settlements is huge, especially when you know the spawn rate is buffed in beta

[rapid fossil]

I really like the spawn rate, so I hope it stays the same. It feels very natural.

[somber field]

You don't have too many opponents too

It really encourage settlements control and GPS content, that's great

I might explore every little town around my city, just for that

[rapid fossil]

To some degree. I'm sure they plan on addressing the ridiculous caps on the rewards that aren't orns/gold, otherwise it won't encourage participation beyond 1k-2k. As far as rewards go, I stopped feeling motivation to take settlements after about 2.2k (which is not much when considering each settlement has 5 spots) because I realized most of the rewards were not getting any better. I'm really just getting more to help show how many rewards you can get when it does get fixed.

[somber field]

so we could have even more materials 🤔

Would be funny to have the equivalent of material gathering from Other Realms daily through Settlements

[rapid fossil]

Whatcha mean?

[rapid fossil]

We could. Some of us want to see no cap at all, even if that means reducing the amount individual settlements can reward you. Caps are disappointing, especially with this much work put in.

[somber field]

you could have decreased rewards the more you hold

[somber field]

You get a lot of materials with Other Realms
Imagine it daily

[opal vector]

It needs diminishing returns on rewards at least.

[rapid fossil]

While I am against that because there's apparently already diminishing returns on distance-from-OT, I could understand the logic of that before a cap. If you're putting in the work to take lots of land, you're heavily retracting yourself from other forms of game content that don't have caps. The dual temporal nature of the rewards in that they disappear if they either go uncontested or get taken back from you leads me to believe we don't even need diminishing returns on distance. It is extremely unlikely a spot will be regularly contested and never, ever be taken from you.

[rapid fossil]

Some people get close to that kind of daily with a lot of refineries & farming a guild 🤷 going high-effort in the Conqueror's Guild takes away from your ability to go high effort in that specific way while also being temporary rewards.

[somber field]

Refineries should get reworked to be a proper "recycling materials" and not "another material generator"

[somber field]

I thought it was activity in areas that increased the amount of rewards, my bad

[wary pulsar]

I definitely prefer "diminishing returns" over a hard cap system.

If everything has hard caps (as it seems to maybe right now) there comes a time where you're just no longer incentivized to engage with the content.

[rapid fossil]

All good! Though I'm waiting on confirmation (I've seen conflicting statements) the current understanding is that if someone either is close enough to a settlement on their map to have it load in or taps it (it is unconfirmed which of the two were meant by "see"), the rewards stay active. Then, when someone challenges a crown, it increases the rewards.

[pulsar spear]

We were told that the spawning in beta is higher than what is going to be in live. I believe total is targeted at 30% vs territories so at home where I have 10 or so I would get to see 3 but not sure. #1275487953480712324 message and #1275487953480712324 message

It doesn't really feel like I am seeing an increased spawn from when I was taking pictures but I stopped trying to track that when I started to point it out over in the Patreon discord.

Feel though isn't raw data 🙂

[spark glade]

Looking at my surrounding area on the beta, 30% less settlements vs territories sounds about right

[rapid fossil]

Areas I haven't been to before seem to have a much higher spawn rate than it did when I was playing alpha. I wonder if it's just RNG or if it was boosted even higher? The original spawn rate seemed perfect

[lean hearth]

I've got over 42,000 areas. I literally spent thousands of hours over the last 4+ years to accumulate that territory. Now, it feels like, "OK... that's done. Start over." "What about this achievement of being 8th in the world?" "Oh. ummm... Good Job."

What was the point?

[unreal lily]

What was the point?
Did you enjoy doing it at the time? 🤔 That's good enough for me personally, but I'm aware I'm probably the least sentimental player on the server. See also: voting in favor of nerfs for things, voting against respecs, etc. Full disclosure, I'm trying to get more insight into a different player demographic than myself. 😅

---

I'm not sure that repeating "I've lost it, I've lost it, I've lost it" helps NF or ourselves.

Practically speaking, @lean hearth, given that NF wants to change the system in a way that is incompatible with the old system, what would you do? What rewards motivated you to get those 42k territories in the first place, and is there a reward that apes the reward you obtained in the old system?

The materials were never a real reward. You get more mats from one tower than you'd get from ~any amount of territories, to say nothing of exp/gold/orns. That being said, NF has not committed to anything but a one-time material payoff would certainly amend this concern.

The prestige was a reward. If you stand to lose prestige, what can NF reward? If it was about being the best, then a permanent title or other eternalization can do that. But by your response it sounds like that's not it.

If it's placement on a leaderboard, certainly there's two minds about it: either the new leaderboard starts fresh along with the settlements, or there was talk recently about giving guild levels based on the number of old territories owned. Which is better?

Notoriety was a reward. Just having your name plastered around all sorts of places in the world. To that end, there was discussion about auto-naming settlements or territories based on the territory owner under the old system (albeit, territories and settlements are not 1:1). Presumably there's something else that can be done in this regard.

Or was it something else? Or is the hope that NF abandons the settlement concept entirely ||read: certainly not going to happen||?

Apologies for putting you on the spot. 🙏

[tepid zodiac]

Yeah thr last one

Start over odie

Lmfao jk

[lean hearth]

What would you say and how would you feel if Northern Forge were to announce that all legacy characters in the game were being deleted and all players would be starting from scratch with Level 1 characters? Would you be OK with that? If not, why not? After all, you had a good time playing. By your statement above, that should have been enough for you.

"It is time to level the playing field and give new players a chance.", someone might say. Are you really telling me that you would be perfectly fine with that? If so, I think you would find yourself in the minority. No evidence of achievement, no trophy, no plaque, no title. Nothing carried forward to the next "season".

To me, the territory control was the only reason to play, the only reason to grind, the only reason to experiment with new builds and to improve my knowledge of the game. I liked the notoriety of having people see my name and having them be unable to remove it unless they got as good as I was. There was a real sense of achievement in that, as I passed by the strongest local players I encountered and finally took and held those territories against them.

Now, the new settlements are fine. I suppose I look forward to the Conqueror's Guild going Live. I don't even mind the starting over from scratch within that Guild's leaderboard. I'm sure I will dominate as I'm doing now. However, you don't play a season of sports without a playoff, a trophy, or some sort of reward as recognition for your efforts. There really ought to be something for legacy players to say to others, "I DID THIS!", rather than just locking the doors to the Legacy Hall of Fame Leaderboards that new players can't see, hiding the circles from them, and pretending it never happened.

To me, those territories have value, and it seems insensitive for others to treat them as if they are worthless and not worth remembering.

(No need to apologize. I'm not offended by anything you said.)

[spark glade]

While your first part of your reply is something I'd consider a false equivalent, I can totally understand the rest of it

[lean hearth]

As far as what sort of memento would be enough? I keep coming back to the thought that a simple title would be enough. If it was a special Master Duke sprite, then I wouldn't feel like you could show off your achievement without missing out on the newest sprites. But a title is always displayed, and if Dukedoms are going away in favor of Crownships, then some sort of Top 10 Duke, Top 50 Duke, Top 100 Duke might just be special and rare enough to ease the sting.

[opal vector]

Anything is better than nothing.

[lean hearth]

I genuinely don't see it as a false equivalence. It is the abandonment of many hours of work with nothing in return. I see them as being equivalent as I highly value territory control. Perhaps someone who does not value it as highly might not make that connection.

[spark glade]

You're comparing the loss of a singular aspect of gameplay to the total restart of literally any and all progress made with a character. Those are not the same and do not hold the same weight

[unreal lily]

What would you say and how would you feel if Northern Forge were to announce that all legacy characters in the game were being deleted and all players would be starting from scratch with Level 1 characters? Would you be OK with that? If not, why not? After all, you had a good time playing. By your statement above, that should have been enough for you.
I wouldn't mind. I've played games that were on a league/season system where you don't keep anything at the end of the 3-months-or-whatever.

I had mentioned eternalization -- something like a "stored history" in-game. A thing you can wander onto and inspect that has the name Caelani or Fuximus on it, maybe with a date. Those can be neat.

And yeah, I know I'm in the minority. 😅 It's why most of the things I suggest don't happen; I'm fairly aware that I'm not the target or majority audience. If it were up to me (and it isn't), I'd just push the new system without any support for the old system at all. Like, poof, we're in the future now playing the new game. Go forth and claim settlements~

---

It looks like notoriety is the biggest motivator, then. That you can't see the old leaderboards -- what if everyone could? Lock the leaderboards, but they're still visible. Maybe not in the main menu, but somewhere that isn't hidden in a back corner. That's going back to that eternalization concept.

[lean hearth]

"I wouldn't mind. I've played games that were on a league/season system where you don't keep anything at the end of the 3-months-or-whatever."

Again, I think you would be in the minority in this opinion when it comes to Orna.

[unreal lily]

I said twice already that I know that I am. 😵‍💫

[serene dirge]

If there is interest in helping the studio provide something that helps with this sentiment, could i request a little change in direction?

such that, instead of voicing how it is crappy to lose the progress (i get it, btw), let's vocalize what would make us happy in the transition.

ie: "I would be happy with the transition if all my areas were forfeited by replaced with the nearest settlement crownships"

"I would be happy if my areas were converted to one time materials/titles/sprites/proofs"

and so on

i don't think we're at a spot where the studio is saying "too bad", it's more-so being unsure about what the best transition plan looks like

[unreal lily]

What I'm driving at is trying to pin down the most appropriate reward (or transition plan). Trying to find the thing that is most harmed, and coming up with a way to amelioriate it.

[remote onyx]

Arisen Duke title: given to the top 10 competitive players
Master Duke title: top 100 competitive
Great Duke title: top 200? 500?

[sacred spade]

For reference of opinion, I'm an exploration fan more than conquest. I've got 16647 territories currently explored.

The main sore spot for me is that all previous communication for the new guild was that current progress wouldn't be erased.

In the realm of getting something for the effort put in, my preference is that anything explored or currently owned transitions to the nearest settlement automatically. There are a lot of places I won't reasonably expect to ~ever get back to, so if they don't transition they are effectively gone forever.

I'm aware this means a hierarchy is necessary for territory control. To that, I'd argue that a good solution is better than no solution when a perfect solution isn't realistic

If we really can't have any type of transition for currently owned/explored areas, then buy me out. Give me the equivalent rewards for my 16000 territories

[unreal lily]

(Back at the start of August I had asked the same question (in the 'pre-beta' discussion thread):
https://discordapp.com/channels/448527960056791051/1271132843094839408/1271203421160083488 )

And reposting from there:

Cosmetics and titles especially seem like something NF could do. Assuming NF like the idea, what do people think about a proposal of threshold titles received at the time of changeover? Something like "Territory Prince" for 5k territories, 10k, 20k, etc. If NF's into it and this could be announced properly early, it might even incentivize people to get out and grind the last few territories to hit the new threshold before migrating.

[molten lodge]

There are already 'Master Duke I-X' achievements and titles available. What about Settlements giving a bunch of new achievements and titles ('Master Settler I-X', for example) instead?

[vital bolt]

There's a new achievement for settlements

or atleast there was, can't seem to spot it on beta anymore

[magic lion]

Keeping the rep we've already acquired would be my preferred reward to move on to the new system

[serene dirge]

if legacy, you'll keep rep

[magic lion]

Well yes, but settlements won't increase it

[serene dirge]

they would when the settlement count is greater than area count. if they were additive, that'd be a significant leg up for legacy players imo

[unreal lily]

The existing *Duke titles could be used for that purpose. Figured people might want something a bit flashier but sure. If the only way to get Duke titles is old system, and new system only rewards Settler titles, that's a thing.

@magic lion do you just mean to store that on your character sheet somewhere?
Etch into stone "this person had X reps", and then only use a new system/number.
New players wouldn't have (or be able to get) the old line in their sheet.

[magic lion]

3 yrs for 40k rep 😅. Can confirm I will never pass it with settlements lol

[serene dirge]

the "Areas taken" entry will stay on your profile fwiw

[lean hearth]

Let me begin by thanking you for one of the best games I've ever played, and I've been gaming for over 40 years. (I'm an old fart.)

Your request for "What might be an acceptable memento and/or reward?" is reasonable.

I think a title is the best way to solve the "I accomplished something special" aspect of legacy territory control. Master Duke is already reserved for territory levels, so it would feel like stolen valor if a bunch of people just got a title that you previously needed a quarter of a million territories to earn. I personally wouldn't feel right wearing that.

However, there are lots of new adjectives that have been added over the years.
Arisen Fey Duke - Top 10, Arisen Duke - Top 50, Fallen Duke - Top 100, Great Duke - Top 250, and/or similar titles (in whatever order) to commemorate that achievement. I would be happy with that. I like the Top NNN in there, as it says more about how rare the title is. Selfish, maybe... but I'm just sharing my opinion here.

If NF decided on a goodie bag of rewards based on each level of achievement, that would certainly be welcomed as an "And here is what I won" aspect. However, I wouldn't want it to be game-breaking or give legacy players an unfair advantage in the Conqueror's Guild. I don't mind starting out at Level 1 and have to earn my Crowns just like everyone else. However, this is a major change and the rewards should match the value of what is being taken away.

I would have to think a bit more on what sort of reward package would fit those criteria.

[magic lion]

I'd rather see it on a leaderboard than just stored on the character sheet. Way back, territories used to be the heaviest weight for global leaderboards right? Which is likely why so many territory invested players retired the game when the leaderboards were changed. I can see this having a similar outcome for many players. If settlements were additive it would ease the sting. Of course it gives a leg up for players, but they worked for what they have at the moment. And those territories can still be lost bringing the count down. The issue in the long run comes back to new players not being able to access legacy and one day be able to take on those territories from players who still take part

[unreal lily]

Old LB calc was level + territories/100, iirc. Definitely the strongest factor given that L250 is/was the hard cap.

[spark glade]

I am firm opposition to the idea that previously held territories should affect new leaderboards. As noted, that is an advantage to old players that new players don't get access to. Not to mention this is the chance for the leaderboards to actually look a little different for a time with this new PvP system. I don't feel that the old guard top leaderboard contenders need to keep their place as if nothing has changed

Fresh starts, people

[serene dirge]

(current_territories*2)

still is, but realistically folk are getting their lb scores from mass dungeons + AL nowadays

[remote onyx]

Mind dropping the rest of that formula? 👀

[serene dirge]

nice try

[remote onyx]

Can I trade my owned territories for the formula? I feel like that would be an appropriate reward

[serene dirge]

ha, even nicer try

[unreal lily]

I did mention converting old rep into new system rep as a splitting decision. Makes some people happy, makes other upset (no matter which way it goes).

Like, Wrecked just said it should be counted in.
Blep just said it shouldn't.

How to decide? 🤔

[opal vector]

For my part, I support pretty much any compensation that acknowledges the point. Recognition. It was the only reward in the old system.

Whether that's titles, sprites, having Settlement NPCs named after the local territory holder, old rep applying into the new system in some way, etc. It's about recognition for the thousands of hours.

[remote onyx]

I know you said the studio looked into having a way of making it so that settlements would be owned by whoever controlled the area they were spawned in. Was that dropped due to technical issues, or more so because of unfair scenarios (ie a settlement spawning in a zone with more than 1 person controlling surrounding areas)?

[unreal lily]

fwiw, random() is totally fair if the problem is picking one settlement owner across 2-5 old territory owners. 🙂
With enough territories it feels like it would come out in the wash. You win some, lose some, but that's true for everyone in that situation.

[rapid fossil]

I was unaware of this! So your former reputation still counts towards the competitive leaderboard if you choose legacy?

[remote onyx]

That’s what I would suggest if that was the reasoning behind abandoning that

[magic lion]

It may be fresh starts, but at the end of the day the top competitive leaderboard players that decide to take part in settlements will also likely be on top of the new leaderboards unless there is some sort of seasonal reset. There's a reason more ppl aren't at the top of the competitive, it requires a bit of travel.

[unreal lily]

The competitive LB is just gone in beta/nextversion, unless something's changed.
Global LB calc... there's a lot on that. Luckily the thread already exists: https://discordapp.com/channels/448527960056791051/1154561308847517777

Increasingly it looks like the new system is going to be a per-guild one.

[pulsar spear]

The Guilds have their leaderboards now in the guild

[serene dirge]

I just didn't believe players would enjoy it. it's a rep # loss no matter how it's done

but, it does seem that i was a bit wrong in that assumption

[unreal lily]

Yeah, it's a double dropdown. LB -> guilds -> (pick your guild).

[pulsar spear]

So I think there are a lot more people that would not mind some type of seasonal reset for competitive things than are vocal here in response to some comments above. I know a lot of people that gave up on the current system because of people with 3+ years of travel over them.

[serene dirge]

ie: Wrecked's 40,000 would be converted to the nearest-to-each Settlement, likely resulting in 12,000-15,000 Settlement crownships. the number is indeed less, even though it just just as geographically significent

[pulsar spear]

I know a bunch of us are waiting for new House Rules on BoF

[serene dirge]

doesn't exist for new world, exists for legacy

[remote onyx]

I know this isn’t related to Conq Guild but can I just say that guild specific leaderboards, while undoubtedly cool, also feel partially like a cop out to not updating the global leaderboard to match with new game mechanics (towers, etc)? I know a global LB update would be a sensitive topic but I’d really like to see a truly global LB

[rapid fossil]

It would even be neat if all active players in the top 100 that requested it got a "Competitive #_". Of course, that also depends on how this new information about keeping old reputation affects the leaderboards. If it really does stick and impact the leaderboard, I wouldn't even need a special title because I'd know I still have the same spot.

[pulsar spear]

I don't think giving someone that has 40K in the old system 12K+ in the new system would be really fair at all, that means on day one they are getting top resources while others have to go fight for them. I still prefer the idea of rewarding a title for level of commitment, maybe a special sprite as well and then to a lesser degree proofs for the new system but not a flat reward.

[opal vector]

If giving settlements by default to the nearest territory owner is a viable option, I personally think it's absolutely the best way forward.

[pulsar spear]

Sure as someone who has 10K plus territories and would have to put in 0 effort to get rewarded on the day of release

[rapid fossil]

The geographical significance is a very big deal, yeah ... Whether I would rather that would depend on how the leaderboard works post-live.

[serene dirge]

i love how the community is immediately split on that idea

[pulsar spear]

Well like I suggested I am totally for giving some type of rewards for effort

Just not handing them over control of a brand new system

[unreal lily]

I would also like to see the global LB calc changed because it's so incredibly out of date (for all the reasons listed in the thread, and getting more out of date with every passing day).

That being said, per-guild is a good first step (also outlined in the thread). And per-guild is coming in this beta. 🎉

There should/could be a way to combine per-guild metrics into a much more representative global LB which aggregates gameplay across all the various guilds (modes) into something that means "good at Orna". No rush on that though, not in this beta.

[serene dirge]

remember that timestamps would likely carry over too. so, those 12,000 Crownships would not be generating rewards unless there is contestation

[magic lion]

If crownships are capped at 20, what's the beneficial reward? You don't need many settlements to hit the 20 cap. The extra rewards to those territories would also be capped from the looks of it on soras screenshots of rewards. Orns are of no benefit really for end gamers when we can all deity endless with no AL for orns. Mats would be the only benefit, no? And even those look to be capped?

[rapid fossil]

Seems pretty OK to me, and not just because I have a lot. You put in the time on a system that rewarded little, get converted to the new one as if you put the time in on that one. If the top crown PVP fight was different than current territory PVP fights, it may not be plausible, but being so similar it sure is.

[remote onyx]

You also wouldn’t be able to control what those settlements are giving as rewards, making it even less abusable

[pulsar spear]

Again you are getting rewarded for a brand new system, you put nothing into it why should you get rewarded for it? What if those 12k settlements were in active areas?

This is the worse example of the rich getting richer imo

[magic lion]

Then they will be taken

[remote onyx]

I mean, if you have 40k areas controlled in active places, then you’ve earned some day 1 rewards

[opal vector]

It isn't a brand new system. It's a replacement for an old system.

I don't think the rewards matter to those big area dukes. They never have before.

[pulsar spear]

Part of the reason I stopped even trying in the old system was for that and for people that could sit in troll builds all day/night or have the ability to hit me every single day no matter the time.

[rapid fossil]

Hardly. There are four other crowns empty that generate more rewards than a single one

[opal vector]

They'll get their capped rewards easily.

[magic lion]

You're going to have those same players in Settlement, tyrm

[opal vector]

There's no difference though. Those same players are going to do the same thing.

[magic lion]

^^

[pulsar spear]

5 years of a stale system controlled by a very small few, the Orna 1% needed to go, rewarding them by putting them in place in the new system will lower participation.

[opal vector]

I'm already getting ready to fight Wrecked, Brewmaster, and Zettai. They own 80% of the areas I drive through, and I'm sure they will again.

[pulsar spear]

And having the Top Crown is more important than the lower 4 since it controls the rewards

so that argument has little merit as well

[magic lion]

I mean, one road trip can put you on the competitive map. I hit competitive top 20 2 yrs ago as a heretic with 20 AL. If you're not willing to defend your territories with different builds, ya aren't gonna keep them lol

[opal vector]

Tyrm, those people control that because they play the game a lot. Those exact same players are going to rise to the top of this system, without fail. The only difference is that the retired ones will get kicked out.

[rapid fossil]

Not when the system is designed around other players being able to engage at lower tiers, which would be empty and uncontested by the transferred players.

[rapid fossil]

Not really. Just because you can't control them doesn't mean you won't get great rewards from taking the lower crowns of a number of settlements.

[spark glade]

Except for the T10/T11 players that now have to scrap for them

[opal vector]

To me, this is absolutely the best of both worlds. This is as good a compromise as you'll ever get. The old heads get something substantial to carry forward for their hard work. The new folks get the new balanced mechanics of Conqueror's Guild.

[remote onyx]

They’ve been scrapping for them for 3+ years now

[rapid fossil]

T10/11 players being able to scrap for them doesn't keep the lower tiers from being able to engage reliably

[pulsar spear]

and what if they decide to be a prick and put it on florens? yeah no the control point is the only point that matters

[opal vector]

There are other rewards, many settlements, and balancing mechanics that allow you to fight stronger players.

[rapid fossil]

Not every territory has florens as an option. And if it does reward florens, they benefit through more kingdom temples. It is certainly not the only one that matters.

[remote onyx]

Then they also hurt themselves? I’m much more concerned about the people planning to make alts to occupy every tier

[pulsar spear]

If you aren't controlling the top it's pointless to be left as someone's sub-ordinate subject to whatever they are doing and you know it

[spark glade]

I hold a similar sentiment to Tyrm. This is being called a "best of both worlds" but to whose world exactly? Doesn't sound like it's the best of my world or Tyrm's, for example. And it does come off as a "I don't want to lose of my place of power no matter what."
There have been rewards for the effort suggested earlier in this channel that I think still say plenty about what was done previously, like a unique title or otherwise. Does the "best" option have to be that your character continues to exist everywhere you have before, and are now higher in the leaderboards (yet again) because you got a free effort transfer?

[opal vector]

I'll stress again. Wrecked owns most of Houston. If you think he won't then go take half of Houston again day 1, I think you're gonna be upset.

[rapid fossil]

Huh?

[pulsar spear]

I mean I already have enough alts and could drive around with 5 accounts open but it's not really feasible to do that

and not drive personally

[magic lion]

If rewards are capped, the top crown becomes irrelevant. If I take part in settlements I'm not even going to waste my time to menu through the settlement to choose the rewards. I'll take the default choice

[opal vector]

Every area has a Wrecked. And each and every one of them is gonna put in a time off request, and they're going to rise directly to the top of the new system.

[spark glade]

Then that effort should be made to happen themselves/yourself

[pulsar spear]

Only if we know when it comes out 😄

[spark glade]

Not just "hey good job in your efforts in the past here's your free settlements"

[pulsar spear]

I would put in the time and effort, but not if the 1% get them already before the gates even open

[magic lion]

The 1% is going to boot you out immediately still most likely 😅. If they're taking part

[remote onyx]

If there were efforts, how exactly are they “free”? Your statement seems contradictory

[pulsar spear]

Then all they have to do is put on a troll build that makes it harder to kill them and wait it out

[serene dirge]

I think the takeaway here is that legacy players should get something, and that is a fair ask. This something can be a title or other account related thing to respect the effort

But - that something shouldn't tip[the scales of day 1 competition in the new system. we should all be on a level competitive playing field

i'll make sure we think about this more internally. have a good weekend, folks

[pulsar spear]

Take care and I hope you get some time off

[serene dirge]

lol

[spark glade]

Let me re-word it.
"Hey, you got a hold of 10k territories before with hard work and effort. Nice job! Welcome to the new system. Here is 5k settlements for free because you got 10k territories beforehand"

[remote onyx]

Please enjoy your weekend (as long as you ship the update by the end of next week in time for my vacation )

[serene dirge]

i think we just added a week to the ship date with this very conversation 🙂

[opal vector]

I really think folks are underestimating the power of these "1%" players as we're calling them. <_<

[remote onyx]

You could also reword it as: “Oh, you got 10k territories and were never properly rewarded for it? Here’s 3k settlements as a way to reward that effort”. It’s all a matter of perspective and we’re probably just going to end up having to agree to disagree 😅

[opal vector]

I guarantee each of them will have 5,000 territories by the end of the first week.

[pulsar spear]

It's actually probably less than 1% I just came up with that as a representative figure thats easier than saying the top 1,000 territory players

I think Odie stated it best so I am going to stop arguing my point

[opal vector]

Wrecked, assuming you participate, how many settlements will you have by the end of the first week?

[remote onyx]

All of them

[magic lion]

I'll just say that if the leaderboard will only reflect the higher # for the legacy players then whats the point in the new system for us? I have no use in taking part in settlements at all because it's not going to increase my rank and I may as well just keep playing a dead system to keep my rank up there which will go even higher because free territory from ppl choosing the new option all together lol. The rewards aren't meaningful to everyone

[rapid fossil]

Because the fight for the top crown functions exactly the same as a taking territory, this is not an outrageous request. I'm not sold out on it or anything, but it is definitely not insane.

[spark glade]

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be rewarded, it absolutely should be. I'm just in disagreement that it should come in the way of freely handed settlements. Like Odie said, this new system should be put in place with everyone on a level playing field.

Also, I am aware of the "1%" as it was put getting thousands of settlements very quickly, that's to be expected. I also, again, don't believe that those settlements should be handed to these players as if it were an expected given

[sacred spade]

Yeah, they aren't freely handed in any way shape or form

What planet do yall live on where somebody who has 40k settlements is getting something for free?

[opal vector]

They aren't free, it's thousands of hours of work.

[pulsar spear]

They literally would be, what planet do you live on where someone in an old system gets completely rewarded in a new one?

[spark glade]

^

[pulsar spear]

Settlement is not a Dukedom

[sacred spade]

The one where the mechanic of go to place -> kill thing -> take control is functionally the same, but with new sprites and tiers added

[opal vector]

Because these aren't two separate systems. This is the same system, rebuilt. If it weren't, or wouldn't be replacing the old system.

[pulsar spear]

grats you have 40k Dukedoms on day one you keep your 40k and now you start on the same foot as everyone else with 0 settlements

[remote onyx]

I guess this is the comment that most accurately portrays how I feel. Do I think that it would be insane? No. Am I going to be mad if this doesn’t happen? Still no, I’ll just go grind them like I did the areas around them.
The saddest part is probably “losing” my footing in areas where I’ll probably never go again (territories will still be there, but anyone in the new system won’t be seeing them)

[spark glade]

I feel like there's a sentiment of "I fought for these territories in the past so I absolutely deserve to keep them no matter how the game re-paints them"

[magic lion]

Plenty of big time streamers get exclusive access to next seasons content in games

[pulsar spear]

They are still there in the old system

The new system isn't Dukedoms

It's settlements

And the old system is still there to keep their Dukedoms

[sacred spade]

Semantics aren't a reason to not do it

[magic lion]

Then why should it replace territory play? Both systems should stay active without needing a choice

[sacred spade]

Did the player own the geographic area? Yes/no

[pulsar spear]

That's semantics ^

[opal vector]

The idea that the old system sticks around needs to be dropped. It absolutely is dead.

[pulsar spear]

They would still own them in their legacy system

the new areas don't exist

[remote onyx]

It’s not “in the past”, you’d only be getting rewards for areas you’re actively defending because of the time stamps

[sacred spade]

Also that ^

Odie just said it would only be rewards for things that are recently contested

[spark glade]

You are correct Bordoadas, but to me personally that isn't the point

[pulsar spear]

No you would be getting them all as mentioned above, you wouldn't be getting the rewards if they weren't active

As Odie said 40k would be 12-15k

and then said timestamps for rewards

[remote onyx]

So what’s the issue? The inactive ones weren’t being contested already so no one will care, and the active ones were earned by actively maintaining them

[opal vector]

The old system is dead. Please stop saying it isn't. It's completely dead. It's being killed for this new system. They will not be two separate systems, as no new players can engage in or even see the old system. That's what legacy means. It's dead.

[pulsar spear]

I mean you can read it I said it multiple times

and Odie summarized it

[spark glade]

Because settlements held contributes to leaderboard rank, correct?

Or am I mistaken?

[sacred spade]

This sounds like people who willingly chose not to participate in a system having issues with rewarding people who did, now that the rewards are halfway decent

[pulsar spear]

Leaderboards rank, rewards, ability to compete

Its a brand new system

period

[opal vector]

As I understand it, territory only contributes to reputation, not leaderboards.

It's a brand new system replacing the now dead old system.

[pulsar spear]

you would punish those in a new system by letting those in an old continue to horde over it

[remote onyx]

If leaderboards is the issue, changing areas to settlements technically lessens that. Right now, Wrecked will have 40k reputation even when the update drops. If you transfer areas to settlements, he’ll just have ~15k, making it easier to catch up to him

[pulsar spear]

This is why I am pro some type of season play espectially for anything competative

[magic lion]

They want easy settlement by not having competition on it to begin with. Only the exact same thing is going to happen and that top player is going to boot them out and hold it down after a weeks time

[opal vector]

Not at all. The people in the new system will be punished in exactly, completely all the same ways. But they get a massive leg up in the new balancing systems.

[pulsar spear]

you had your 5 year run gg, now lets do something that gets more community participation and then have some type of reset again every 6 months to a year

[opal vector]

Reset?

[molten lodge]

No one said anything about reset.

[opal vector]

There's not a reset is there?

[spark glade]

Meanwhile on the other end people with tens of thousands of territories spread across long distances want easy settlements by not having to find them and compete for them themselves

[remote onyx]

Im in favor of seasons but definitely not for territory control. Season resets belong in places like BoF, with fresh house rules every month or so

[opal vector]

They already found them and competed for them.

[magic lion]

If you read, they will be taken over again by the top. Why do you think we're in the top? Either vacations or work traveling

You won't hold settlements anymore than you do territory most likely lol

[spark glade]

And if you read, I've said several times I don't believe that just because it's the expected outcome then it should just be handed to these players

[opal vector]

Yeah, you get to pretend it's different for a few months.

[remote onyx]

We’re just talking in circles now 😅

[spark glade]

Just a bit...

[opal vector]

It's the expected outcome because it already happened. They did the work already.

[pulsar spear]

We have been for awhile now

As I said Odie said it best, not sure why others are still arguing against that

[magic lion]

Sure there's extra perks to it, but those added defenses I just bought can now stack on with my 136 ALs. If anything settlements will probably be a lot worse for t10/11 players than territory is

[sacred spade]

If people aren't "competing" for them, they won't get rewards anyway, so it's a moot point

[opal vector]

Because they disagree.

[pulsar spear]

Maybe we could get this pinned? #1275487953480712324 message

[unreal lily]

Maybe @jolly sable could pin it.

[spark glade]

Then we should just assume that because the work has been done in the old territory system then the work should be instantly done in the new system?

[opal vector]

Yes.

[pulsar spear]

Welcome to 1% mentality

[spark glade]

No kidding

[opal vector]

The work in this one system that is being overhauled should be retained.

[remote onyx]

So, how’s the weather over there guys?

[opal vector]

I have 1200 territories. Don't be reductive.

I simply respect the system for what it is, and it's THE reason I play the game.

[pulsar spear]

If it was being reworked then it would go completely away and that would be a different conversation

it's not

it's staying

so your argument is moot

They are literally 2 systems

[opal vector]

It isn't staying though. It's a legacy game mode. It's gone.

[spark glade]

Fair enough. Because I play this game for different reasons then perhaps I just won't understand at a base level because my priorities and level of commitment are different than yours and several others here. Maybe if I was in the same spot as you then I'd be arguing for the same things, who knows

[magic lion]

No, there's one system if a new player can't choose legacy mode lol

[pulsar spear]

A new player has to level up to 100 to get to the old system

[magic lion]

Legacy will be removed at some point obviously. Just need to wait for more of the legacy players to quit the game

[pulsar spear]

as stated before

several times

[opal vector]

That's the single sticking point here between our two sides. It isn't about the territory. It's whether the old game mode is still here or not.

[pulsar spear]

Territory control is 100+

[magic lion]

Ok? They can't access it once they hit lvl 100 though.

[pulsar spear]

they can

have you tried?

I did

[opal vector]

I'm not understanding the point.

[pulsar spear]

The point is it's 2 systems

they will be next to eachother

it's not 1

there is your point

[magic lion]

Currently sure. Odie already stated that ideally new players will not have access to legacy

[pulsar spear]

yup sure

[opal vector]

They won't be for any new player.

[pulsar spear]

new players already don't play the old system anyway so?

[magic lion]

If you can't see that this is setting up for the entire removal of territory play in the future, idk what to tell you. Lol

That's not true at all

[pulsar spear]

Ok well I am done this 3 on one is not going to resolve anything

[opal vector]

Sure they do. They just lose in it, hence the rebalanced system.

[pulsar spear]

yall can keep the echo chamber going

[magic lion]

I have plenty of low lvls message me saying their goal is to wipe me out.

[remote onyx]

I mean, both sides have been doing that so that’s not really fair or an interesting way to keep discussion going

[magic lion]

And if your competition is s2, goodluck on the settlement holding 😂

[opal vector]

I'm completely open to and appreciate conversation and debate. I want to see how the new system doesn't replace the old system.

But I don't see that. No new players can compete in the old system. The old system is specifically being named "legacy". When traveling, it will be unreasonably difficult to use both systems. You have to "choose" which reputation to use.

[spark glade]

However the direction of the conversation is going, I don't know if throwing one's hands up and metaphorically stomping out is the best way to leave it

[remote onyx]

There are people currently in my kingdom that joined because they decided to hit 250 and get stronger after I wiped them out. Territory control has, in my opinion, been a great motivator in getting people more invested in the game. I truly don’t see where the “players don’t engage with it because it’s hard” point comes from

[opal vector]

I would like to know how each of my points listed there isn't the definition of a "replacement", and how it doesn't mean the old system is dead.

[sacred spade]

The legacy system is dead, anybody pretending it isn't is living in fantasy land.

It's called a legacy system for a reason

[remote onyx]

If people quit because territory is hard, they were probably going to quit when they started doing towers or anguish content anyway imo

[molten lodge]

Something that could be done to kinda keep both sides happy is to introduce "ghosts of X" as first settlement owners, with greatly reduced stats. New player could easily snatch those territories if they are active in the area

[opal vector]

I'm pretty supportive of this ^

[remote onyx]

Would be a good compromise

[spark glade]

Hmm... A potentially neat option

I do kinda miss the ghosts of old

[magic lion]

It comes from people who expect everything to be handed to them I guess. Which they'll counter and say we're expecting the new system to be handed to us lol. But that's also the reason I'm 136 al and a territory player. I wanted to wipe of the local guy owning everything and I achieved it. I used to take a week+ to take one territory but I kept pushing

[opal vector]

Though I think the current "new" system has a solid hold on balancing mechanics, this is a pretty good meet in the middle option.

[sacred spade]

Hey look I found it

#1163587752001015808 message

How we define having investments respected is open for debate, but it has always been the plan

[opal vector]

The difference is that old or new, the same players will be at the top, and the same players won't be. Converting territory across from the old system to the new won't change anything that they want to change.

[magic lion]

Yeah, I guess they need first hand experience (a second time) to realize the exact same players that are still active and participating will be the ones back on top and wiping them out lol

[unreal lily]

I don't think that's a fair characterization of the people who are in favor of "new system starts at 0 rep".

For instance, Tyrm has like 10k territories. He's not saying he wants to start at 0 rep because it benefits him; he'll just take new stuff anyway.

I don't think anyone has made the (strawman) argument that the only reason to start at 0 rep is to stick it to long-time territory owners, or something like that. Or force them down.

[opal vector]

The thing is though, they're getting a really nice compromise in the form of the system itself, separate from the question of territory compensation.

[lean hearth]

Settlements will not solve either of your issues. Troll builds will still turtle in the same areas and hit you at night. You will still get frustrated and still won't compete. It doesn't sound like the problem is with the game setup, so much as your unwillingness to compete with them. (Not being mean, just pointing out what you just said.)

[remote onyx]

The same could be said about people arguing the opposite. Over simplifying arguments into “people that have it want to keep it, people that don’t want it gone” is counterproductive and doesn’t move discussions forward

[sacred spade]

If anything, "troll" builds will be way more powerful in the current system with crownguards

[opal vector]

Indirectly, they have. Tyrm stated that he wanted "new people at the top"(correct me if I misquoted).

Which is why I personally push back, because there won't be new people at the top, and the system that will allow new people to thrive are built into the CG itself, and transferring territory from the old system to the new won't change that or anything long term.

[sacred spade]

If new territories transfered over without guild exp they also have no effect on the guild leaderboard

[opal vector]

Not a dig at Tyrm if it seems that way, he engaged fairly and is expressing opinion.

[spark glade]

Which is where I pushed back that just because it's seen as an inevitability by some, doesn't mean it should be transferred and put into place as such

[opal vector]

I really wanna keep conversing on this topic, but I have a fight night to run in a couple hours. ><

[spark glade]

Ooh, fun fun

[opal vector]

(If anyone wants to join, let me know!)

[remote onyx]

Lmao, I was just asked to attend 10sec before you posted this. I was confused how I had just switched topics and was still reading about fight night 😂

[lean hearth]

I will be putting in a request for a week off as soon as I find out when this is going live. Will you?

[opal vector]

Blep, I go back to the fact that I think the sticking point fire everyone is whether this system is meant to replace the old one. If it isn't meant to replace the old one, I don't think there should be a "legacy" option, and new players shouldn't be removed from the old system.

[opal vector]

Self employed, and I take territory while working. 👍 So the opposite. I'll be working NON STOP.

[opal vector]

I'll DM you!

[crisp condor]

So you are doing youtube?

[opal vector]

Uber.

[crisp condor]

Better

[remote onyx]

No need to, I’m in the server and Lamp will force me to attend if I’m awake 😂

[spark glade]

It's tough because, yeah... the old system is gonna fall by the wayside big time. I know I'm going to be going to Conq fully rather than both, and I imagine a lot of people will do the same. The fact that new players are put into the new system from the get-go is kinda telling too

[opal vector]

I mean, for me, that's the point. I fully believe the CG should replace the old system, it's better in my opinion in almost every way.

[lean hearth]

Not to mention our dedication, single-mindedness, and willingness to put in the time, effort, and gas money that is required to take tens of thousands of areas.

[opal vector]

But I think we need to be really clear that the old system is dead. We can say it's still breathing, but it's gonna bleed out.

[spark glade]

For sure

[magic lion]

I'll stick with it simply so I don't have to get 40k settlements 🙃 lol

[opal vector]

And for ^ that reason, keeping the old system is a bad thing.

[lean hearth]

I agree with Wrecked. I don't really need a head start. I want to see how I'm doing against everyone else on a 1:1 basis.

[opal vector]

It lowers investment.

[lean hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-brooklyn-guy-gas-prices-have-you-seen-gas-prices-these-days-gas-gif-4072780421713958101

[opal vector]

I feel strongly that wiping the old system out, and transferring territory to settlements, is the best gameplan. CG has balancing mechanics that will allow me to fight Wrecked, and other big guys.

[unreal lily]

I think the safest expectations are:

• old system won't be dead immediately, but is dead to attrition and lack of new player interest and lack of new developments going forward.
• pvp is going to be unchanged at the top crownship, except there are less settlements/distance and there is the low-tier crownships facet.
• people at the top of territory will also be at the top of settlements, measured in guild level of the Conq's guild.

[opal vector]

I need food and coffee before this kicks off.

[unreal lily]

@jolly sable is #1 in the pinning guild leaderboard for sure

[lean hearth]

which will be worthless and eventually removed from the game.

[jolly sable]

Dear god guys y'all typed an ungodly amount of messags

[opal vector]

What a GUY.

We're passionate :3

[jolly sable]

Also kinda funny, I pinned those messages, and then found out I got pinged to pin

[spark glade]

Poor John XD

[lean hearth]

You have a fan club, too?? 🤣

[lean hearth]

I see what you did there.
The same thing you did in the legacy system.

[pulsar spear]

Ok I will correct you, I don't care if old people come out on top. I care that on day 1 of a new thing the old people would just be given the whole new system

[pulsar spear]

not sure what message you pinged me, I didn't delete anything though

but it looks like a mod removed something maybe?

[opal vector]

To you, it's a new system. To most, as far as I'm aware, it's a replacement system.

[pulsar spear]

A replacement implies that the old one is gone

[spark glade]

I mean... both mean very similar things and at that point it's semantics

^

[pulsar spear]

I don't understand why I have to keep give you the absolute technical answer on this

[spark glade]

The old system is technically there, but effectively it will be dead in short order

[pulsar spear]

Sure

I agree with that

But dead it is still there and still available

[spark glade]

Mhm

[opal vector]

The old system is being called legacy by the new system. New players won't be able to join the old system. It won't be reasonable to engage both systems.

[pulsar spear]

I agree with that as well

Still not sure why you don't understand that the new system has new leaderboards, new buildings and is a new system.

[opal vector]

It's dead. We can argue it's technically still there, but the new system is made to replace the old system.

[pulsar spear]

New rewards etc

[opal vector]

Because the old system is being removed and replaced by the new system.

[magic lion]

New leaderboard isn't just for the new system. All guilds are supposed to be getting a leaderboard

[opal vector]

The argument is that, because the old system is being replaced by the new system, there shouldn't be new leaderboards.

This side doesn't understand why thousands of hours of gameplay and work should be removed, when it doesn't have to be.

[pulsar spear]

I could tell you the real reason I quit the legacy system but then it would break our discord rules and be called a witch hunt so I won't bring it up, hopefully this new system will also have better detections in place

[opal vector]

I would like to know that reason, could you DM me?

[lean hearth]

Actually, I agree with you on that point. I don't need the new system handed to me. I'm going to dominate the new one just like I did the old one.

[opal vector]

(I think I know it)

[pulsar spear]

And I will probably curse your name if you come to Florida 😄

[warm wigeon]

Good discussion but maybe time to rate limit the messages? 😕

[lean hearth]

Possibly. No big deal. It was a sidebar comment anyways.

[storm moth]

This is gonna be super out of the convo flow but Im about to go to bed so Im dropping it in here - apologies for interrupting.

I like the idea of either a resource buy out for territories currently held or having crownships (or w/e) being automatically assigned to me near territories I hold. Both of those would make me feel as if my previous investment had been respected.

I also think some kind of badge would be cool, similar to our years played badge. It could maybe show how many territories we held when the new system goes live and would give us that little bit prestige.

[lean hearth]

New players will not have the choice to participate in legacy. They will not be able to see the legacy leaderboard or the territory circles (even after level 100). There will be no rewards in the legacy system.

That is effectively turning off the life support system and saying "Well, it isn't dead yet."
It will be as soon as the Conq Guild goes live.

[pulsar spear]

Hitting 100 and building the conq guild currently allows you to do legacy

But it's legacy for a reason

[analog dew]

Please no, my motivation to go hiking has already cratered while waiting

At least it's better than Resources, which wipes out all your thousands of mines if you forget to log in for two weeks

[pulsar spear]

But as I said I believe legacy players should be given rewards, titles, sprites, etc.. Just not start on day one with the new settlements already theirs. After day 1 I won't complain with Lamplighter rolls through my whole state and I have to whiddle away at it

[lean hearth]

Fair enough... the less said the better.

But I was only referring to your own message in this thread where you said you quit when you ran into players who had unbeatable turtle builds on all your local territories and that they were running around all night taking land.

All of us so-called 1% ran into exactly the same thing, but we chose not to quit. We became the beasts we detested, got stronger, and kicked their butts.

[lean hearth]

If you live in Northern Florida, I have some bad news for you. I will have extended business travel out there starting in December. Keep those settlements warm for me, please!

[pulsar spear]

Nope Central Florida

[magic lion]

That indirect witch hunt by naming in a later post😆

[pulsar spear]

oh no Lamplighter is awesome

Not calling him out at all

I'm even in his local discord now lol

[magic lion]

Gotcha gotcha lol. I guess he doesn't go west often, never got the pleasure of fighting him

[lean hearth]

Currently, but Odie himself said that he expected the goal was to eventually remove the legacy system altogether. I think it is probably a question of server resources.

[remote onyx]

Hide, scream, run. Lamp comes for us all eventually

[pulsar spear]

Him and Puzzleknight

Damn PK had a far reach when I was in colorado lol

[remote onyx]

People must go insane, losing thousands of areas to Lamp while having him be the nicest guy ever just means they can’t even get mad at him

[lean hearth]

This is who I aspire to be.

[pulsar spear]

I have a day job and family so I can't be that good but I do hope to aspire to be at least in the top 500

[remote onyx]

So does Lamp lol

Anyway, let’s get the topic back on track

[pulsar spear]

Well tbf I think the topic has gone in circles enough but I keep getting pinged lol. I told Ceriath the things that made me quit territory - no names though b/c of what I said above. Hope yall have a good weekend as well.

[opal vector]

I think compensation is a fair middle ground. Territory buyback sounds great, but needs a time limit. Or I could wait for Wrecked to buy out, then take his territory and then switch into the new system. You'd have a lot of that.

Badge, sprite, titles, etc are all good ideas too.

I dunno if it could be implemented, but what about the thing I mentioned the other day? The NPC in a settlement could be named after the person who held the territory?

[remote onyx]

Possible ideas for rewards for the top ranked competitive players:

• titles
• badges (akin to the x years of Orna one)
• control of settlements spawned in areas they control
• sprites

Has anything else been proposed that I missed?

[lean hearth]

42,000 settlements named Caelani?

Not even Napoleon had that big of an ego.

[opal vector]

42k settlements with NPCs named Caelani until they're taken

[opal vector]

And why not? Wrecked walked into the mayor's office and demanded Houston be renamed Wreckedston.

[lean hearth]

Not gonna happen.

https://tenor.com/view/finding-nemo-seagulls-mine-gif-14807727

OH Noooo... Now we did it!

Someone woke up Lamplighter!

[pliant needle]

I love all of these ideas. Can we please just pick one and get it over with so that everyone can start playing Orna again?

[opal vector]

Shit. He's gonna show up and be nice to everyone

[pliant needle]

That's my MO. I'm so nice that no one wants to take my territories.

[remote onyx]

Lamp: “I don’t care about rewards. I just want your territories. Also, I brought cupcakes”

[pliant needle]

Hmmm cupcakes 😋

[opal vector]

I could see Lamp showing up to burn your village to the ground and then being like "I know everyone's houses got burned down, but guess what? I've got... cupcakes! -spirit fingers- :D?"

Jokes aside, that's an interesting point. A lot of the old dukes aren't going to care about compensation. Some will, but their only driving force has been to hold more territory, so offering then rewards now kind of misses the point.

That said, should do it anyway.

[spark glade]

Hmm... Do you think the compensation would be based on a threshold number or based on the number of territories you had?

[magic lion]

I'd like a custom sprite of my territories laid out on a map please and thank you

Jk even though I am curious what that looks like lol

[remote onyx]

If compensations is titles/badges/sprites, I’d assume there would have to be a cutoff point, either based on number of territories owned or on competitive rank

I’d hope for a special reward as well for the top 10 or so

[spark glade]

Ah, for sure. I probably should've elaborated and said in terms of material rewards given

[pliant needle]

Lamp Lighter - The Nice One

Works for me

[remote onyx]

We’re probably not allowed to brainstorm ideas for Skibbio’s title in a public chat though

[pliant needle]

I only did it because that was how the game was played. That's how it was designed. That's what I was supposed to do. And I had fun doing it. And I'll do it again.

[opal vector]

Material rewards based on number of territories, with diminishing returns.

Sprites/ titles based on threshold.

Don't listen to Lamp. He wanted to pillage the country side and deliver cupcakes.

[lean hearth]

I have thought about this and would even have paid good money for a high resolution map with tiny dots representing all the land I own.

[spark glade]

~Lamp in the middle of burning down the countryside, leaving cupcakes on the step of every burning home~
"YOU'RE WELCOME!"

[rapid fossil]

If I understand it right, though, there is no Influence boost. Without the Crownguards, it's just like a war PvP fight. Some of us did the math and full crownguards only seem to be slightly better than a full influence meter.

[rapid fossil]

They definitely do. I find spots recent noobs hold all the time. If they can't beat the duke with DOT damage, they find backroads that are unclaimed. They certainly do. This new system is a tremendous improvement on participation, but let's not act like noobs don't use it at all.

[rapid fossil]

I'm still catching up, but this is definitely in the top 5 no-context statements I've ever read.

[raven echo]

oh i hadn't checked beta again, I was stopping at a walmart, and saw you, and couldn't resist trying 🙂 can't wait to try oversouls with the gear I've been collecting at various tiers.

your mats are decreasing, thanks for sharing photos, would love to see mats uncapped or the cap pushed further up.

[opal vector]

I've always been in the territory system. I used to walk 5-10 miles a day to find more territories.

I support no cap, but severely diminishing returns in rewards.

And by severely, I mean a soft cap around 3-5k, and by the time you get to 10x that amount, your rewards maybe double. Absolutely not worth the time investment~

[rapid fossil]

Oh whaaat? Did you take one? I didn't get a notification. You have me dreadfully curious where because the spot I took wasn't close to one if I remember right.

[raven echo]

but also, I don't know where to see notifications on the Beta, do notifications occur still?

[rapid fossil]

Top right of the character main menu

[pulsar spear]

I haven't seen notifications working yet

[rapid fossil]

Erh... I think I'd have to oppose anything that makes it feel not worth the investment.

[rapid fossil]

I guess we'll see then! If @raven echo took one of mine, there's a chance he did when I accidentally left myself at my wayvessel

So I wouldn't have gotten the notification

[rapid fossil]

Oh, also you're welcome. I hope it becomes a good reference when the rewards are adjusted.

[pulsar spear]

I tested at 3 local one with alts not in wv

no notifications for any crown take

Have to zoom in but 2 are taken by sandbox alt and 0 notifications

[rapid fossil]

Are your settings set properly in the beta?

[rapid fossil]

I replied to the wrong one, my bad :x

[pulsar spear]

It's been awhile let me try again

wonder what the delay is if there is one,

Lost anther to pesky mini

still 0 notifications

[rapid fossil]

I just tried it with an alt, no notification yet

[pulsar spear]

and def not in a wv

Dang ruined my streak now 😄 was really hoping to see an NPC attack

[raven echo]

Thanks! I do think your orns just hit a cap too on the rewards. I was checking both mats and orns by dividing what you earned with how many settlements you controlled, but looked like you really started hitting some caps around 2,000. If I get some time, I'll go through the thread and try to develop a chart from earlier screenshots. If I can make a graph, it can help with a discussion of exactly when/where rewards are/should be capped or diminished in returns. Like you, I agree that caps are bad and a curve of diminishing returns is better. I thought that was the case looking at other people's screenshots, but thanks to yours I saw there were actual caps.

As a player with an erratic personal schedule. I don't find myself doing a lot of daily dungeons, etc. So it would be nice to play while I have time or on a trip, and then earn passive earns daily until the next big play session.

Also the location I took from you was the Eunice walmart.

[serene dirge]

Remember, folks. Until further notice: #1275487953480712324 message

[rapid fossil]

OHHH snap, yeah I just played in Eunice recently. I always need a little Café Mosaic in my life.

[rapid fossil]

Thanks for the reminder 😅

[pulsar spear]

Remember Odie you said you were taking off for the weekend 😄

[rapid fossil]

I was looking forward to a few days without a chaperone

[pulsar spear]

lol

[pulsar spear]

I checked again for any notifications and still none on either toon

[rapid fossil]

Currently, titles are not displayed anywhere in the settlement like they were in territories. Titles would be a great improvement.

[west plinth]

I like this a lot. I would exist in the settlement but not get rewarded for it. I would have to defeat my own ghost to access rewards from the settlement XD

[rapid fossil]

Also, when logging in with an alt that I had taken 1 spot from my main with, I got a message saying "Your settlement HP has been restored". Has anyone seen that?

[somber field]

I feel like Legacy should serve a new purpose, it's kinda sad to let it down and forget it where many people invested time.
If Settlements are now the individual area control, we could rework the Legacy to be more Kingdom related ?
I would be so done for a Party PvP alongside my Kingdom Mates, reward would be small amounts of KGolds / KOrns / Florens.

Just an idea, another would be to switch Legacy to the Travelling Guild, and use Manifests to conquer and defend the Legacy areas

[crisp condor]

Life means letting go

[somber field]

You mistake it for death

[crisp condor]

Nop

[opal vector]

If you like party pvp, you should join the Unfelled Battle Club. Is good time.

[pulsar spear]

Yeah if you attack and lose you can see hp lowered and if you go back in with main and click it restores it.

[buoyant reef]

As someone who recently breached 10k currently held territories I would be happy to get compensated with a special title, even though I don't know if top 180 would even qualify.

Atm I feel like I will still use the legacy system, just because it hits the right part of my brain for that sweet dopamine release. I have grown accustomed to minimal rewards anyway lol

[lime egret]

I love this idea. Was a bit saddened to see that faction bonus for territory was never developed further (especially considering I started the game playing locally with friends, eventually starting our own kingdom)

[opal vector]

YOU. I'm going to destroy you in San Antonio soon. Just you wait.

[opal vector]

Would love faction territory stuff. Pve bonuses for whoever is higher, pvp bonuses for whoever is lower.

[lime egret]

You'll have a head start on the settlement race unless I can really bite my teeth into the new system. I'm a bit of a homebody, and I usually do other things when out (like hunting for bogs). My territories have been gotten piecemeal over 5 years or so

[opal vector]

Darn it. Nothing's fun without competition. I'm here for war, not number go up. Someone take this guy out for a heckin' drive!

[crisp condor]

Just put it to live

I need it

[jolly sable]

As odie said, there are still things missing from the final product 😅

[jolly sable]

There, it is pinned

[crisp condor]

I want the unfinished product

[opal vector]

The kind of person that eats their pancakes before flipping them. I support this behavior.

[crisp condor]

RAWWWWR

💪🪿

[rapid fossil]

There's always just playing the beta

[crisp condor]

Nah

[pulsar spear]

Really hoping to see the new exploration for those that don't like PVP but I feel the want/need for Conquerors guild to be out so we can start competing.

[spark glade]

I can relate to wanting the new Conq stuff out live and soon... Beta is fun and all but progress doesn't transfer, so it can only be so much fun you know?

[tepid zodiac]

Eats the mix dry

[acoustic steppe]

How does level up work with settlements?

[opal vector]

Level up? Not sure what you mean.

[acoustic steppe]

I would love that.

Convo looks too long and seems it was scratched later anyway...

[acoustic steppe]

When T9 player takes his spot and level up to T10 later, for example.

[opal vector]

Oh. It'll drop your other soul automatically into that spot I think is what was said.

[pulsar spear]

Yes that

[crisp condor]

Gibe update

[pulsar spear]

It's early Monday morning there is your update, maybe give em a chance to have coffee and go through whatever morning rituals they have on a Monday morning 😄

For me it's coffee, breakfast, read email, check task board, check for things on fire, then settle into work for a few hours before team Standup then back to work.

[crisp condor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-7107264540211859015

[pulsar spear]

So spent a lot of time talking about the rewards for going to the new system and I think I reached an ok agreement, looking for the heavy hitters to share their thoughts or approval.

1. Legacy system (keep as you are + title/sprite/badge whatever)
2. New world (100 mats per each dukedom ( limited 2 weeks from launch offer + title/sprite/badge whatever)

[pliant needle]

Agreement with whom? Were you appointed to negotiate in some way?

Why is this so important to you? You control 500 areas.

[crisp condor]

We negotiate now?

Hell ya I will make my 2 bread into a castle

[pulsar spear]

Maybe agreement is a bad term there? Was discussing with Gurnnink who has 30k or so I believe, so was seeking others to ask about it. I personally said I wouldn't want a reward as it feels too much like a participation reward. I spent a lot of time above in chat talking about rewards and stuff as well. I am not in any special negotiation position of course just figured I would try to offer up solutions which is part of Beta-Feedback, at least in my experience with Betas.

[spark glade]

I think the topic got pretty thoroughly covered. The devs are likely considering options and we’ll hear something about them in time

[pulsar spear]

I think they take our feedback as well and was proposing a possible solution to #1275487953480712324 message

[spark glade]

True, I’m just saying that we covered a lot and they might already be putting something together with what they know from last time

[dusk thunder]

I hope us "legacy" players that're being abandoned at least get some nod. A freeze on our character profile with our highest "legacy" leaderboard rank would be cool. Just hit #81 on the leaderboard after a long road trip and its already feeling like a kick in the dick finding out the Conquer's Guild is no longer vaporware :'^)

[crisp condor]

Giving them some titles might he enough

[dusk thunder]

Nah, unless the title has the numeral rank in it, that would be a pretty lame nod

Just a line on our profile like its a guild or something with our old rank would be cool

(The rewards for area control have always been dogshit and we've all only done it for prestige, so it's really important to appeal to that aspect)

[strong comet]

Will the Legacy mode keep rep stat or are you 0 until you engage with settlements?

[molten lodge]

It's the bigger of settlement rep or territory rep

[dusk thunder]

The legacy mode, as its name makes very clear, is the problem child being weaned out (new players can't even join it). So its pretty clear once enough of the population is moved over TNF is going to really abandon it. Only makes sense to look forward to the new system cuz thats what TNF is doing.

So its just a question of how much our hardwork is acknowledged from the old to the new

[remote onyx]

It’s the bigger of the two. What I haven’t seen cleared up yet is if legacy rep will count towards competitive leaderboard

[spark glade]

I don’t think it will if I remember past discussions right

[buoyant falcon]

I missed the bulk of the conversation, but I really don't understand the objections to giving people the closest settlements to their current areas.

1. Rep will already be tied to the highest number, so no difference there.
2. Conq guild xp seems to be given on winning fight, so presumably wouldnt affect that leaderboard either.
3. Many old players areas will be decayed, considered inactive etc. so will only have a marginal effect on resources.

Personally, Id prefer fighting other players right off the bat rather than fighting mostly bots for the first couple weeks. Unless I misunderstand, it sounds like the only thing we're avoiding is giving players with a lot of territories access to decent rewards right off the bat, but I'd argue they put in more than enough time to warrant those rewards.

[spark glade]

Odie covered the general sentiment of the overall discussion here
#1275487953480712324 message

There’s a lot more to the discussion, but that was the overall conclusion I think

[buoyant falcon]

Thanks. I just don't really see how it tips the scales if its not affecting leaderboards or rep. I have a pretty middling amount of rep around 3k, but if we're just talking about material payout as a potential anyway, I still don't see the issue with giving settlements to territory owners.

I'm planning on dropping my old territories to join the new system, since I'm not a big fan of having two systems that effectively are the same thing. The only thing holding me back is sentimental value for territories I might not get back to.

[spark glade]

One of the most interesting things that came from the discussion was if someone sees this as a new system running in parallel to the old or a replacement of the old system entirely. It’s a bit of both, but the fact both exist at the same time affects how people feel about their territories being lost, and whether they should get to keep it or not on the transfer

[buoyant falcon]

I personally love the old system, one of my favorite parts of Orna, but to me, they will accomplish the exact same thing. When my options are system to fight other players for control for fun vs. system to fight other players for control with legitimate rewards, I don't see myself engaging in the old one.

[spark glade]

Which is generally why the old one is being pushed on the back burner as “legacy”, yeah. That’s the feeling NF feels about it if I understand right.
But since the old system will still be there and whether you engage with it is up to you, the question of if territory should transfer or not is a bit muddled.
I’m of the mind that we should all be on an equal playing field when the new system launches, and that the reward for old territories controlled should be either material or account based (or both), not something that directly applies to the new system itself. But I can see why others might not feel that way, and it’s a bit of a tricky angle to consider

[dusk thunder]

The old system is going away. You cannot join it as a new player, and if you leave it behind as a current player you cannot go back.

The old system absolutely is NOT there in parallel. Its on hospice care. It can not grow.

[spark glade]

The way I see it, the fact it is there, that it can be participated with in some capacity for current players (at any reward level), it is parallel to at least some extent for current players. Though you are correct, it’s probably not going to be that way forever, and there likely isn’t any point to doing so unless you’re very keen on having both available to you.
But Odie has said they don’t have plans on removing it any time soon, so time will tell what will become of it

[crisp condor]

To be fair

Most devs would just remove it entirely

[spark glade]

Usually, yeah, and arguably that would be easier to deal with

But NF still sees some value in the old system, which makes sense given how strongly I’ve seen some people feel about it

[crisp condor]

If I were them
I would just give some titles and call it a day

[dusk thunder]

Nah this is pretty standard protocol for this kind of change of a major system a dev wants to drop, though I think there'd be usually more soothing of fears for people that their effort isnt being lost right away.

When you want to replace a new system you say the old one is still being supported, but we're working on a new thing as well ("dont worry!!"), and then you move more and more over to the new to reduce the pool in the old until its just a few left. Then you kill it. Very basic community management. You want to minimize the people directly impacted, and slowly slip the change in so its at worst a vocal minority who notices. You then have the useless idiot that says "just go to the new lol, nobody uses that anymore" making it easy for the community to digest the change internally

Not saying it's good or bad; its just standard

[cursive solar]

I can still do exploration and controls if I make a new character. They haven't changed that in the beta, yet.

[opal vector]

I'd rather see the old system killed than slowly die. I'd prefer to get some kind of compensation, and then it's gone.

[crisp condor]

Yeah

[remote onyx]

Can we stop asking for the old system to be killed? We’ve seen that there’s a lot of people that enjoy it and the studio made a great decision in keeping it around

[serene dirge]

agreed. There is a lot of chatter in here that does not match the sentiments communicated by the studio

Area Control is still fun. And there are still some great rivalries that will live on in legacy mode. There’s so rush/initiative to kill it

[dusk thunder]

PvP Area Control is literally the only reason I play the game. I like area control, I think its fun.

Odie I know you know that "legacy" mode is a transitional period to killing it. You are purposefully stopping its ability to grow with the new system. You know that if it can't grow, then it can only go in one direction.

Now, I'm open to the Conqueror's Guild being the new cool thing. (God knows area control has felt like the forgotten stepchild.) Something fresh is def welcome, but let's not kid ourselves about the direction TNF is going with this

[opal vector]

If the area control system is going to stick around, could we offer a way for new players to opt into it?

And a way for people who abandon it to go back to it if they wish to do so?

[serene dirge]

what is a TNF?

[austere light]

Tuesday Night Football

[pulsar spear]

The nice folks

[dusk thunder]

:/

Alright well I guess thats one way to address it. Kinda a bummer tho

[serene dirge]

address what?

[indigo flume]

My guess would be The Northern Forge

[spark glade]

Their concerns mentioned above, I think at least

[spark glade]

I recall Odie mentioning the possibility of that being discussed down the line, but it wasn't discussed much further than that

[serene dirge]

Yes, I was being funny, as there is no “The” in the studio name

[serene dirge]

imo, the concerns have been covered a dozen times in this thread, by studio and community. Do you think there is anything outstanding?

[zenith scarab]

Short of allowing new players to opt into the old territory system, I am not sure there is anyway to completely remove their concern. Which personally I am on the other end of the spectrum. I am one of the people who would love to see it cleansed from the world of Orna with fire after experiencing conqueror's guild.

So from that perspective, I think you are doing swell!

[sturdy gale]

I think ppl may warm up to it once it launches. But i dont fully understand why ppl are clinging so much to area control. Wasnt NF evaluating giving settlements to ppl with dukedoms? This would give them settlements in areas they wont get back to

[zenith scarab]

I can understand why, there is a lot of feeling in a system that has been around for years. It's why many of us started playing really, myself included. My friends got me into it and the rivalry with them kept me going when I otherwise might have quit. But then I got too strong, the grind got too hard and they fell by the wayside.

I'm not sure if a system like Conqueror's guild would have kept them playing or not but I'd like to think it would have given them more options to at least still play casually. Overall I think the studio has thrown out (and taken in) some very good compromise ideas. Looking forward to the next iteration to see what comes.

[acoustic steppe]

Yeah, I tried a handful of GPS games before I found Orna, none of them really grabbed me, at most for a few months. Here I am 4.5 years later and still playing Orna. And what I was looking for was area control. I like my areas and was looking forward to one day having those areas "improved" or making sense in a new system (I'm watching NF gradually improve things). Unfortunately they will be scrapped (+/-). If that happens, I want to be rewarded for that amount of time and effort with some "goodies" - if that will be option, I will gladly press the New World button. I will press it nonetheless, ngl, just ...be far beyond angry/sad whatever.

[serene dirge]

I think what we are forgetting is that the current system is already not accessible to new players. it has a higher barrier of entry (level 100), to then involve competing with ascended T10/T11s everywhere.

Yes, we do have anecdotes about some of these players being up for the challenge, but this represents such a small percentage of this audience. nearly all new players do not get to interface with the current system, and it leads them to retire early much more than excite them for a challenge.

thus, i see no reason to provide them the option to opt-in to the old system. The Conq Guild directly solves the above problem - why bring the problem back?

[sharp kiln]

Think I've read most of this tread. Last days have been about ppl wanting a reward for previous work (old system). So I guess it's clear for Lord Odie and NF, so they can move on.

[serene dirge]

aye, that's been responded to and covered sufficiently

[sharp kiln]

Agreed

[warm wigeon]

So recap - rewards for old system are just competitive leaderboard as usual? Aside from the intrinsic competition

[serene dirge]

essentially

[warm wigeon]

Ill still hop on to old system and blow up someones notifications. Sounds great

Dont see any issues there. Thanks!

[remote onyx]

Wait, does this mean the competitive leaderboard is sticking around and it’s only influenced by the legacy system?

[serene dirge]

the competitive leaderboard is influenced by all pvp battles. it continues to show for legacy players and not new world players

[orchid plover]

I'll give you all my territories 🙈

[spark glade]

Not particularly, given what I know you’ve said on the topic. I imagine the deeply long term plan for territory control is what has them worried, but there’s so sense worrying about a what-if future that doesn’t have any answers yet

[buoyant falcon]

If the competitive leaderboard is legacy only, I think the conquerors guild should have an additional leaderboard for highest settlement rep. The current leaderboard is cumulative xp and doesn't represent the push/pull aspect of competing for settlements. It can also be effectively grinded by the rps mini game.

[serene dirge]

most of the guild leaderboards likely need more metrics involved

[pliant needle]

How is the elimination of the competitive LB going to affect the global? Let's say I decide to go purely over to CG. Surely that will affect me globally right? Should that be a consideration in decision making?

I'm not sure why I would waste time on something that doesn't involve the whole community. If it makes absolutely no difference anywhere and it's all just a non-reward mini game like the bird whistle then sure why not, keep it, ditch it, doesn't matter. But if those areas are tied to global than that's another discussion.

[serene dirge]

Competitive and Global are both in their own silos (as in, your competitive rank does not influence your global rank).

That said, areas do weigh into your global rank, so forfeiting them via New World Conqueror may affect that leaderboard. i can't say anyone in the top 100 is there due to areas though - dungeons, AL, etc are likely the largest factors for their global ranks

[supple violet]

I do not think the areas nearby being replaced by settlement crowns would be in the heart of the game. However the offered conversion proofs are, I think, the main "everyone would like this" thought

[pliant needle]

Thank you so much for answering. I may be a bit different from others on the global board as my stats seem to be more well rounded than many I see on there. It just all has to be part of my consideration. However it ends up, I will adapt and modify and get back to the grind. 💪 I appreciate you guys.

[supple violet]

The replaced by settlement crowns would completely negate the whole "Here's the legacy" choice

[serene dirge]

Appreciate you too!

[dusk thunder]

lvl 50 takes half an hour to reach. 100 a few days of casual play. I was competing once I hit T7

Its kinda messed up that only positive-to-NF reacts are allowed, too, --since only mods are allowed to choose reacts.-- Oh no wait, I personally was singled out to not be allowed to react? wtf? How is that seriously a thing? Profound

[dusk thunder]

If it doesnt show up for non-legacy people, then it doesnt exist. Nobody cares about ruling an empire of dirt

[zenith scarab]

I'm not sure. I've seen people who are definitely not mods (or ORN) reacting through this whole thread.

[dusk thunder]

Apparently you downvote a few mods posts you dont agree with and your permission is taken? Profound showing of integrity

[zenith scarab]

Ahh, well that explains the why.

Didn't even know that was a thing till now,

[dusk thunder]

Me neither, but its been there a while

[spark glade]

Weird

[serene dirge]

When the staff is repeatedly trolled via reacts, the role can be issued. We’ve got amazing moderators who do an amazing job keeping this a respectful space

[pliant needle]

It's true, I'm somewhere around 22k and I'm considering what it looks like to just let them go and start fresh. I have some soul searching to do.

I get in trouble at work for my cat reacts.

I'm frankly surprised this discussion hasn't been closed. It was to discuss the live beta and more time has been spent disparaging the community and developer. Let's talk about the CG and how it works and what works and what doesn't work and let the rest go. Regardless of our opinions at this point what is happening is happening. Either you love the game and move forward or you don't. It's moving forward with or without us. Let the grief go.

[dusk thunder]

What does that even mean. "trolled via reacts"..? How am I disrespecting something by disagreeing with it with a thumbs down? why are only positive reacts allowed man? Feels very disrespectful to chill anyone who doesn't only upvote

[dusk thunder]

Odie trolled my questions because I added "The" before the name of his company :'^(. I agree with you

[vital bolt]

Thumbs down are fine. We issue that role to people who use other emojis like 💩, 🤢, 🤮 or spell out words

[dusk thunder]

Thats pretty stupid lol, but if I promise not to use a vomit emoji anymore may I be bestowed the ability to voice my opinion via reacts again?

This secret arbitrary list of no-no reacts wasn't known to me before, and while I see vomit react used all the time (even by mods), now that I know the secret rules I'll do better I swear

(Vomit being the only thing I use off that list)

[desert zenith]

My take on this: main will continue in old system until I get Master Duke VIII which is about 3.5k territories away. T10 alt will play new system so I can learn it after it's deployed with any changes from beta. I won't transition my main until the new system has settled down. I hope it's still possible in the old system to get your next title. I just want a screenshot that I did it.

[sharp kiln]

Sorry if I have missed it. But when we play the new system, the old area's are gone. Will there still be an "origin town area" with 10% stat boost? Or a stat boost for controlling the area surrounding a settlement?

[buoyant reef]

Will the legacy achievements even be achievable anymore after the update? I was certain they would be retired.

[remote onyx]

I don’t see a reason to retire them if the system is sticking around

[desert zenith]

That is my only remaining concern. I don't expect to get any settlements or whatever for the effort put in but I hope I can close out my current achievement task

[serene dirge]

Current achievement and origin town mechanics are unchanged

[desert zenith]

Awesome thank you!!

[raven echo]

System looks great, very thoughtful. Love continuing the competitive system and giving space for lower levels to compete.

I saw that the next steps are feedback for a tutorial and exploration mode? What kind of feedback are we looking for and are they available to test now? Thanks!

[rapid fossil]

I just saw this. I guess it is from taking a nearby settlement?

[clever scroll]

But it's temporary

[pliant needle]

5 ascensions for 5 hours is serious boost.

[lucid ermine]

But it is worse than current permanent boosta

[acoustic steppe]

Yea, against current system you can

1. have it even out of your area
2. stack it with OT bonus
3. it is only for 5 hours, which is not enough? cuz usual player farm more then that amount of time?

(the buff is +1 hour after each fight, even with othersouls, 24 hours max)

[lucid ermine]

Does the timer freeze when im logged out?

[remote onyx]

No timer has ever done that in Orna afaik

[tepid zodiac]

Weren't you around for the classic "-s" role?

I think it stood for "silly" or "suggestions aren't meant for jokes" lol

[crisp condor]

I would like that role

[latent wave]

Well, I think something broke as every reward except for orns changed to (1) wondering if you guys are trying to rebalance it?

[rapid fossil]

Sure looks like it! This is a good sign.

[latent wave]

Personally I think orns might have been too high. But, I suppose that's up for debate. I do think materials and items needed to be higher.

[rapid fossil]

I can get that many orns in a single memory run and a couple boss kills. I don't think this amount is a problem (x caps are extremely disappointing.

[latent wave]

It's hard to say really. Because I can get 2.5 mill per dungeon clear on live. So I guess 5 minutes of my time. So, you're probably right

[latent wave]

Memory hunts are about the some with 2 %100 amenities and the dragon item "forgot the name" so maybe it's in a good place. I will agree that the caps are a pain in the ass. Currently, you get one "item" settlement and that's it.

If they keep it at one item maybe increase the chance of a rarer item? Maybe something like that? I don't think materials should have any cap to them.

[rapid fossil]

I believe the only capped one should be shrines. Cap it at 2, Wisdom + Luck

[rapid fossil]

I suppose it depends on what the pool of items are. What could a rare item be?

[latent wave]

A demonforged riftlock 😉 I suppose I should have said better quality.

[rapid fossil]

Ohh! So far it seems the items in the pool are consumables, like Mnemonics

[latent wave]

Oh? I guess I haven't looked that far into it. So it's consumables only? That's unfortunate. I thought it was like end of dungeon rewards.

[rapid fossil]

As far as I know it's not

I've mostly been getting bestial potions, mnemonics, and tower keys.

[silk grotto]

So, when does this goes to official app? 😅

[remote onyx]

Great, you just delayed it another week

[silk grotto]

Nooooo

[jolly sable]

First things first, a Tutorial and the Exploration integration have to be made, and then tested

only then can Live be considered

[cursive solar]

Isn't Anguish 2.0 before Conqueror's Guild, also?

And Q3 balance

[jolly sable]

All of those are after conq

[frozen wasp]

Roadmap and Conq Guild being in Beta say otherwise
#game-announcements message

[cursive solar]

Based on rarity for what's more likely to happen first, I would think famed titan augments, then legendary Anguish 2.0 & balance,and last ornate CG.

[frozen wasp]

Think of it more like: Left side is happening sooner, Right side is happening later

[cursive solar]

So the pvp meta will be unchanged before releasing CG then

[pliant needle]

There will always be a meta. And they were always be a counter meta.

When they make adjustments here then something else takes its place and they'll have to make adjustments in 6 months again. Find the counter.

[rapid fossil]

New rewards at 4,370. Item, orn, crownguard cap remain and are unchanged . Florens are higher, items are much higher (unknown if still in capped within a range), proofs are slightly higher

Items feel appropriate for the amount of settlement work I put in while prioritizing materials every time. I'll see if they increase further.

Personally I would prefer each settlement to grant a random material each day rather than a lower variety.

I suppose this way would even out over time, but it seems like it would be more natural having a variety.

[sturdy gale]

Damnnn thats insane

[rapid fossil]

Still feels appropriate. The rewards are temporal in nature and high effort.

Although if they are capped, I would be in favor of fewer rewards per crown, but no cap.

[warm wigeon]

Thats a pretty good daily passive reward. Ofc lot of up front investment but still pretty nice

[warm wigeon]

Same here

Uncapped but fewer per crown imo

Theres no diminishing returns elsewhere in similar aspects of game

Why should there be here

[rapid fossil]

! Now, I will certainly not complain if the rewards stay this good and go uncapped and undiminished, but if lowering the rewards is a necessary sacrifice to remove the cap, so be it. XD

All speculation of course - I'm only bringing it up again because obviously NF has started working on the daily income.

[spark glade]

Didn't Odie say that this stuff will likely be tweaked later anyways and doesn't need to be monitored?
Edit: The message literally above mine could be an answer for that, good job me

[sturdy gale]

Also i think odie said that we have more settlements in beta than we'll get in live server im not sure. But it feels like conquering will be way cooler than what we have now because of the mechanics and rewards

[serene dirge]

Hey folks - just an fyi, but a beta update that includes the new Exploration mode + Tutorials + some other qol improvements has been stuck in review with Google Play since the 11th

Will update this channel when Google catches up with their review queue. A bit of a shame - we’re so close!

[sacred spade]

Three day review from Google? Big oof on their part

[rapid fossil]

Rewards at 4,622

Gold is still increasing, slight floren increase. Two less materials than the previous day.

Watching out for that update now 👀

[remote onyx]

So, more of each material earned but only 2 different mats? I’d probably choose the 3 at 333 if I could 😅

[rapid fossil]

I'll always take variety first XD

I got quite a few new spots with materials chosen between today and yesterday, so it remains to be seen if I hit another cap range for materials

[silk grotto]

It's better to choose mats instead of proofs or something?

[rapid fossil]

So far, if only because the proof cap is reached significantly earlier. In its current likely-to-be-changed state.

[tepid zodiac]

Functionally it's should be the "Konquerer's Guild".

Canonically to maybe

It's like the ye olde way of spelling it

[zenith scarab]

Npc's finally recaptured some of the nearby settlements

[orchid plover]

How does that work ? i've been confused about that for a bit

its like, we automatically lose settlements?

[zenith scarab]

Yes, the NPC's take them back after some period of time. Though I'm not sure if anyone besides Odie knows how it works.

[jolly sable]

Yes, but only ones near your OT

[zenith scarab]

Near is...fuzzy. Cause 20 miles away they still took them back

I wouldn't care if near was within 20k kilometers, I positively LOVE the fact they are ephemeral in some way

[serene dirge]

The update is now available

[zenith scarab]

Hmm, now I can see territories again, have to destroy my guild hall and rebuild it to see if it gives me an opt out option

Interesting, the exploration fights are now horde battles.

[jolly sable]

Not sure what this sentence is suppposed to convey

[orchid plover]

That didn't happen to me

[jolly sable]

The last one

"...when not in those tiers", specifically

[zenith scarab]

think that is supposed to be "make"

[jolly sable]

Additionally the phrasing makes it seem like you can only use equipment and spells you had back then

As opposed to any new ones you find, so long as they are correctly tiered

This should be "by", I assume

[zenith scarab]

Yours aren't horde fights?

[orchid plover]

Nope, mine were single fight each

[jolly sable]

"They will be rewarded" or "They will get rewards"

[orchid plover]

Also does this mean everyday they will reset or something like that ? 👀

[jolly sable]

Seeems to be either horde or singles

Depending on.. shrug

[orchid plover]

looks like a new way to farm event monsters outside of monuments

[jolly sable]

Conqueror

(As opposed to Conqeuror)

Exploration looks neat, but there's no reward associated to it is there?

[frozen wasp]

Looks like by Tier, just like monuments.

[jolly sable]

Can you check if it is tier restricted?

[frozen wasp]

downloading and installing the update

[vital bolt]

Not sure if i like this interface

It could work like the current one

[jolly sable]

I don't dislike it. Very reminiscent of the first area control / exploration UI, but much easier to navigate

Since areas got unexisted, it makes sense

[vital bolt]

This way of exploring kinda has me stuck/switching to that page

[analog dew]

I'm not sure how I feel about not seeing the explorations on the world map

[frozen wasp]

They are not restricted 🙏 🥳 🎉

[zenith scarab]

I can see what Yoshi says, if you want to do exploration while on the move you have to leave it on that page, missing out on everything else or constantly be screen hopping. (I am assuming it updates while moving)

[vital bolt]

Kinda feels like a step back. Anyone remember the old territory/area interface?

[analog dew]

It makes it quite hard to contemplate what '461 meters NW' really means

[jolly sable]

Ah when you put it like that yes

[frozen wasp]

I have a background that involves reading and navigating via map and compass, so it's not a huge deal to me. But I can see that being an odd learning curve.

[vital bolt]

I do love that monsters show up in packs and the random status procs are gone

[serene dirge]

The icons below the travelers guild will only show if there is an available fight now, so it is a good indicator of whether the menu needs to be opened

[analog dew]

I mean it's not exactly a problem, just feels very weird to expect people to know their orientation all the time rather than 'well there's literally a road on the screen to the next circle'

[open prism]

i kinda liked the "circle's map" with the monsters, but having the lists seems to be faster to deal with the mobs, the orientation is kinda mmm hard to know where i must go to fight them, buuuut at least for me, i just took these mobs like on my way to work so i don't really mind.

[analog dew]

Now you'd have to tab out of the menu, locate the compass arrow, and walk to a guess before tabbing back in

[frozen wasp]

this is huge hype though. i love Horde Exploration

[open prism]

does these monsters in exploration give anything special?

[vital bolt]

Interaction radius seems to be somewhere between 392m and 425m. So uh probably 400m

[open prism]

397 and i'm too far

[analog dew]

Feels less of an 'I've explored this specfic area of the world' and more 'hot monsters in your area' I guess

[frozen wasp]

I can agree to 400m, with a fluctuation of 10m

[zenith scarab]

Alright, weird. I can't opt out of the old territory system now. I tried removing and rebuilding the guild hall and I don't get the menu option.

[open prism]

^ or do they give like travelers stuff?

[vital bolt]

Was that a thing? I thought decisions were permanent

[zenith scarab]

Technically I don't recall ever making the decision to begin with but maybe I am forgetful

[frozen wasp]

From the one fight I've won, 2 Hobgoblins, I cannot tell, but it looks like no.
Its just heckin exciting

[vital bolt]

What's this?

[frozen wasp]

This "T6" exploration I have though has 2x Great Lizarr Noble (actually T6) and a Coral Beast, which is a T8.
I will let you know when RNG lets me win

[sacred spade]

Not sure if I'm just missing something or not, but the exploration feels more like "here are a bunch of random world mobs for no rewards" than exploring

Rather than improve the prior system this feels like an entirely new thing that I'm not sure is better

Having them reset everyday is also the exact opposite thing I liked about exploration before. The permanence was cool, could systematically explore and eliminate what was around, then move on to a new area

[zenith scarab]

I actually like having them reset periodically, not sure I like menu'ing being the way toa ccess them

[supple violet]

Maybe a monthly reset with areas farther from OTs recharging faster

With reasoning being that they're trickling back in after you systematically murder them

[sacred spade]

I'm going to be firmly in the no reset camp 🙂 anything else stops being exploring to me and becomes a repeatable route

Granted, in the current iteration it doesn't really matter since I can't see myself participating if it really is just bonus world mobs

[zenith scarab]

Hasn't it always been just bonus world mobs?

[sacred spade]

You got a daily/weekly/monthly reward at least, orns were doubled, and I could track the total number of places I'd explored

[analog dew]

Explorations gave daily rewards just like control

[frozen wasp]

Gold Daily, Orns Weekly, and Equipment/Materials Monthly.

[analog dew]

Just near me is the +2 orns weekly slaugh and the +1 vampiric ore a month slime

[buoyant falcon]

Yeah, I'm not personally a fan of resets. I also think them being one-time only would allow them to have some better rewards. Could have mat/orn piles or even PoT and PoD since tied to the travellers guild.

[rapid fossil]

So, does exploring do anything or in the new system or..? The territories don't show any daily rewards above them, so it leaves me wondering.

[frozen wasp]

😎

The resetting makes sense to me though, from a design perspective.
You're meant to be going back to settlements fairly regularly (not sure on the specific interval).

The resetting is just so that there isn't a conflict between the two systems

[sacred spade]

Area control was always a repeat thing as people fought for them

Exploration was meant as a one and done

I'm not sure why that needs to be changed

[serene dirge]

It’s still one and done

Monster change, but your exploration status does not

[frozen wasp]

oh, that's genius

[serene dirge]

This ensures lower tiers have a chance to explore if the guardian is a t10 roll, etc

[wary pulsar]

Can you fight monsters that out-tier you, like old exploration?

[frozen wasp]

yes

[wary pulsar]

Nice

[sacred spade]

Is there going to be a way to track areas explored, either per fight or for exploring the entire thing?

And are there going to be any additional rewards associated with them?

[analog dew]

make the fights give a proof of trial and I'll be happy

[wary pulsar]

Yeah, the last thing I'm wondering about is if there are rewards

(And should we create a new discussion thread?)

Obviously old exploration barely had rewards, but something minorly beneficial could be nice.

[serene dirge]

Just achievement for now, but I’ve got a plan already

[frozen wasp]

New Thread Unlocked: https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1285292242759843985

[open prism]

odie mentioned "a couple of QoL" also on the patch, anyone has found or knows what were :B?

[unreal lily]

The first thing I noticed is that we get new green-text settlements for public parks...? Not sure where in OSM that NF is drawing the info from, but two nearby parks got shiny new settlements on them with text of the park name below their settlement name. ||Kinda hard to show a pic without outright doxxing myself 😅||

[open prism]

i'll believe you xD

[jolly sable]

I believe this a bug with accounts that had already chosen a system before exploration got added - my new fresh beta character does not experience this

[unreal lily]

||So: new exploration is still tied to territory/area and not settlements? Kinda surprised by that; I went straight to a settlement UI to start looking for where I can fight a pve fight (just like I can pick a pvp fight).|| topic moved to Trav'sGuild:Explore thread

[jolly sable]

I do agree with that being a bit confusing - I expected to explore the settlements

[remote onyx]

Tbf, I think the settlement menu is already packed, adding exploration to it might have made it even more confusing

[jolly sable]

It's not that I don't understand though

Exploration fits in with the vibe of traveller's guild

Not to mention it wouldn't be a part of HoA I don't think, so it double checks out

[rapid fossil]

I quite like it this way. Settlements are exploring non-fallen civilization. Exploration is exploring the wilds of the fallen civilization, kind of like how the original tutorial described exploration.

[spark glade]

I assume iOS is waiting a bit longer for this update, even with the delay on Google's part for the Android version?

[unreal lily]

fwiw, I didn't see any typos in the tutorial text going through a Settlement. 🙂

[jolly sable]

Oh, so the ones I sent in have already been fixed?

Tutorial only shows once per... app?

so I can't exactly verify myself anymore

[rapid fossil]

So, is there a reward for exploring that I can't find?

[magic lion]

#1275487953480712324 message

[rapid fossil]

Thanks, I thought that was in response to something else

[magic lion]

Oh it may be. I haven't thoroughly read so I could have missed something. I thought it was in response to knight asking just above it

[rapid fossil]

Oh. Woops. Looks like he did and I read it waaay too fast :L

[silk grotto]

I can say it's atleast ui updates from what i saw

[latent wave]

So I lost a bunch of settlements to npcs but I didn't appear to lose any of the rewards. Can anyone verify this? Unfortunately I don't have my exact numbers but I'm pretty sure something funky is going on

[remote onyx]

If settlements far away are being lost to NPCs I’m a bit more iffy on that feature. What’s the feature trying to achieve?

[remote onyx]

Maybe you were already soft capped on those rewards?

[crisp condor]

Only the ones close to your OT are being taken so far

[pliant osprey]

What would happen if you get a Shrine from the daily claim? Would it auto-pop like in the shop?

[crisp condor]

I am inclined to say that it would auto pop

Since I didn't find an instance in which it didn't auto-pop so far

[serene dirge]

Only settlements near your origin town can be retaken by NPCs

[remote onyx]

We got a comment earlier from someone who had it happen to a settlement 20 miles away from OT

#1275487953480712324 message

This comment here

[acoustic steppe]

that's far away? 👀

[remote onyx]

Im just trying to figure out what constitutes “near” I guess 😅 I’d assumed it would be settlements in my city, 20 miles is a bigger radius than what I had assumed

[zenith scarab]

I suppose I could just start driving east till I found settlements I still owned, then get out the Google Earth and draw a line

[serene dirge]

20 miles seems too high to be possible as i review the code. however, in the grand scope of conqueror's guild, it doesn't seem too high imo

[boreal turtle]

Can we get alerts that settlements are being taken while in a WV or in the OT WV?

So I know hey I should prob switch off my bard spec so I dont lose everything

[zenith scarab]

I agree, let's bump that up to 2000 or so! 😉

[remote onyx]

Again, my question would be, what’s the point of having NPCs retake territory? Isn’t the system already made to allow lower level players to compete? Is having NPCs competing for territory that fun of a feature?

[zenith scarab]

Repeatability

That's the value I see in it

[remote onyx]

Repeatability is fun when you’re fighting other players, if you’re just losing them to NPCs it’s just unfun gameplay imo

If the point is being a resource sink to force us to use some proofs for the “maintain settlements” feature I’m fine with it, as long as costs for that stay reasonable