#Conqueror's Guild - Pre-Beta Discussion

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

cobalt siren
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you don't need to fully upgrade it for it to be good, just spending 23.7k to get it to level 10 gives you access to 3 slots which combined with the other advantages over the OS would be more than enough

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everyone has the same amount of access to towers?

glass finch
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Chiming in- I’m on team no celestial weapons for other souls

signal arrow
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And I'd quite like to actually have a purpose for the ones I unlocked when I was T9 and rapidly threw away

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Despite it being common advice on this discord, I'm not sure how many T9s genuinely hang out there long enough to farm 200k shards for a celestial T10 class. I certainly didn't. So that's just dead investment currently

rough jewel
rough jewel
opaque wren
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I don't think it's fair for the average ☆9 to go against skyshard using AI

glass finch
rough jewel
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Pinned

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It's not official, but helps gauge opinion

opaque wren
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Thosell be more for the end gamers that can afford to waste skyshards on lower tier weapons explicitly to make it harder for the average player to compete no?

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Sounds fun

steel root
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If celestial weapons were available to 9* players I would be all for it, but the reality is they aren't - I would be persuaded to change my mind by a reasonable 9* build that can do towers without relying on obscene luck (the luckiest summoner ever for example)

rough jewel
fossil ridge
opaque wren
fossil ridge
steel root
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Yeah. T9 celestial weapons are only available to t10/11s

opaque wren
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Ie; this needs to be fun more than competitive

fossil ridge
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Yeah

opaque wren
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Inclusion isn't fun got the top tier hardest sweatiest players but it's better overall

steel root
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That being said, I would rather celestial weapons be broadly available at t9, and make the available to other souls, as I think the added complexity would be a good thing

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But as the game stands, I don't think it's fair for the t9 players

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Although, who knows, maybe a class spec and Amity will be a bigger enough benefit to offset the advantage and we are shadowboxing

opaque wren
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Make players ungrade and work for weapons beyond a one and done celestial piece. It limited the meta and end game weapon choice IMMENSELY.

I'd prefer to avoid the ☆9 OS meta just be more celestial weapons.

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There's so many weapons that are amazing until you get celestial

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Then they're all poop

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Literally

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Poop

blissful cairn
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Well, no class, spec, Amity, or accessories really wrecks most build ideas besides big number goes Brrrrr

steel root
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Also, it occurs to me that we're having this conversation a month before the celestial rework

jaunty remnant
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Right now, the patch means a T9 player goes from:

  • fighting ascended T11s with god gear, to
  • fighting T9 othersouls with no ascensions amities etc.

In general I like having celestial pvp weapons being a thing for T9 + T11 (instead of just T11).
And then in general celestial weapon power needs to come way down.

cobalt siren
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This is my T9 Alt, currently has a tower of its own built, a level 9 celestial weapon, and a celestial class, with this build I was able to hit floor 41, yeah it takes significantly longer than a T11 but it's not impossible

Screenshot_20240815-144020.png Screenshot_20240815-144030.png Screenshot_20240815-144102.png
rough jewel
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Not trying to convince people to change their opinions or anything, but I would also like to remind people that whoever they are facing in the new system with t9 celestial othersouls would otherwise be a t10 or t11 who has had enough skyshards to spare on t9 weapons, meaning they are likely well ascended as well - which means the challenge the player in question would have in the old system would be a t10 (celestial) class with ascension, celestial weaponry, amities, specs, passives and accessories; whereas in the new system it's a t9 NPC with a celestial weapon, with no class, no spec, no amity, no accessories

signal arrow
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Without amities or specs like cataphract, is celestial the only way to get ward regen? There's an argument that they could be gentle exposure to some mechanics

steel root
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41/50 isn't completely compelling, but it's better than I expected, thanks @cobalt siren

cobalt siren
steel root
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Like, yeah, it was worse, but the idea is to make it good, not just better

rough jewel
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Do you believe it impossible for a player to tackle a t9 othersoul with a celestial weapon?

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Or just.. harder than usual?

blissful cairn
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Lack of class and spec passives, no Amity, and no immunities from accessories really means a real T9 should already have pretty huge advantage...

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Sleep Dart goes Brrrr

merry chasm
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For othersouls gear, are we limited to specifically their tier of gear? Or that tier and lower

rough jewel
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If people have to slot immunities in their armor pieces, then their stats are going to take a hit

rough jewel
steel root
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I'm curious to tinker some builds and try some things

harsh gust
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I believe that most people will just stack ward

blissful cairn
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Yep, as I continue to say, In Odie we trust, in beta we await.

rough jewel
harsh gust
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Well ymir drops a weapon that deals 40% more dmg to ward...

cobalt siren
harsh gust
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Equip it with only 3 spells

rough jewel
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And yeah, your ward will be down when the player goes first

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so you'll eventually die

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and give the area to the local player

harsh gust
cobalt siren
harsh gust
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Ward, dmg, buff

opaque wren
harsh gust
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Let the rng decide

gentle bison
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I'm excited to see T2 Othersouls with massive amounts of ward, and absolutely no Def and Res
cause end-gamers haven't cared about those stats in months (or years)

harsh gust
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My OS will probably just use offensive spells

signal arrow
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For a completely different question, do we know if the way we interact with territories has changed (especially with the 'choose a reward' mechanic). What I wouldn't give for a map of places I own

rough jewel
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If people are headbutting opponents without thinking, they'll get their asses whooped

harsh gust
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The game is totally different without celestials

cobalt siren
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This is what a T9 Titan Guard has access to, as well as spec abilities all that OS do not have access to, I believe a real T9 will definitely be at an advantage even with a celestial weapon

Screenshot_20240815-145155.png
opaque wren
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Getting smacked with a quick cast or crit boosted OS celestial in which they may not have gotten one themselves in where my disconnect is.

harsh gust
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Sleep dart! Go!

opaque wren
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That's all. Celestial are the anti thesis to fun gear choice imho

blissful cairn
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Honestly I think a T9 will have an easier time with a Celestial weapon geared OS than a T3 player will have with a High Def/Res T3 Godforged OS.....

opaque wren
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Any ☆9 kill 5 titans lately ?

rough jewel
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if they try to rationalize things one at a time, and tackle the problem at hand, then they can solve the issue.
Are they immune to sleep?
How about stasis?
How about petrify?
How about Rot, Burn, Poison and Blight? Maybe you can just burn them down.
Do they have any health regen? If not, just hit hard every cooldown and the enemy will die eventually, you know, how you used to kill bosses back in the lower tiers.

opaque wren
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Any normal player* not the multi alt sweaties like me

harsh gust
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Yeah

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I did it way back

steel root
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I'm also a little worried making them usable would make a new t9 think that making a t9 celestial weapon was a good idea, which would delay their endgame development -- in other words I think this would add another path to the n00btrap that is t9 celestial weapons

harsh gust
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With beo and bashe

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Baha*

opaque wren
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5 adorn on ☆9 CW is too many

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And cost too high for Normies

stiff flame
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I've seen a t9 take my territory 🤷🏻‍♂️. Not many, but some have. They can take a t9 othersoul with a celestial if they can take a t11 with over 100 ALs

harsh gust
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The titans are quite easy to beat for a t9 with decent gear

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Maybe a class swap is needed but still

steel root
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I think the celestial cost is too high for t9 - does anyone recommend a t9 buy them?

opaque wren
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I'm excited to see what happens anyway

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I won't waste shards on ☆9 celestial even if it's bis for OS.

harsh gust
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Same

blissful cairn
steel root
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For sure - and like I said earlier, since there's a celestial rework next month, who even knows what this will look like

opaque wren
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I hope they get less purple

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Maybe more mood ring zues like

steel root
signal arrow
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It's interesting how many people see the othersouls as actually being competitive with T9 players. For me, no class no amity no spec no shirt no shoes no service means they're a challenge to overcome for a fresh T9 but will get blatted by a competent one instantly

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They're really only there for proxy wars between T11s with no T9s around

night adder
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If Im being selfish, I want cele weapons to be usable because I got 99 problems and I want my t9 weapon to not be one of them.

If Im thinking about what's best for the game (and what best fits with the purpose of the guild) then I think they should be off the table. They give end game players too big of an advantage.

opaque wren
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I'm no balance expert, more of a fun aficiando is all

green pollen
night adder
rough jewel
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Also, which augments are you thinking on putting on the othersouls?

Prometheus hands are good at the whole critting thing, but what t9 and under skills are you going to be critting with? Horizontal Slash 2? I guess?
Not to mention you don't have amities to doubledip on that crit damage boost, nor any innate class crit booster - the prometheus hands are just a 60% increase in damage versus a normal weapon. It's mostly a difference between getting three or two shot; or two shot and one shot.

Maybe you want to put selene hands in them, but will they be worth it? You don't have ascensions to inflate att and mag, you don't have hybrid amities to benefit from both stats (plus we don't even know what othersouls' base stats are). You could use hybrid skills I suppose, but they're not necessarily great.

opaque wren
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I think it's ☆9 maybe haha

rough jewel
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Sortie is t10

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Also Lungs are not nearly as useful in t9 - the multi turn spells are three turners, not two turners. Unless we're talking about like Nekrosis, but... huh, I guess we don't know how Nekrosis works on Othersouls

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But if I had to wager a guess, I'd say they don't.

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turning a 3 turner into a 2 turner is a 50% boost, whereas a 2 turner into a 1 turner is a 100% boost - lungs are half as efficient once ultima is out of the table.

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Don't get me wrong, T9 celestials are strong, are undoubtedly better than any other t9 weapon in the game. But I don't think the power they offer is enough to grant t9 othersouls immunity to being killed by t9 players

blissful cairn
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Also, T9 celestial weapons only can have 5 slots, there are no 2 handed weapons, which is good

cobalt siren
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Even filling a T9 weapon with Prom feet would give it 20% ward regen, a T9 TitanGuard with Cataphract can get just about half of that just from class abilites and spec

rough jewel
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Also worth noting, othersouls have no mana - which means they have inherently reduced Ward

blissful cairn
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Hmm... Well that also means +Mana gear is useless for potential ward builds, so jewels of the deep are not a great choice

signal arrow
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A lot of it comes down to what 'no class' truly means. If we're looking at raw stat difference between T1 mage and T9 omnimagus for example

AP1GczOfvcKh6faoYgVcqsmRZDn3Xp2m_mMdlrJKOYMV6QKaikWImPmN5lEhw606-h1313-s-no-gm.png
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That's rather a lot for gear to make up

blissful cairn
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Yep

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At a certain point if we handicap OS too far we might as well just make them a 1 HP ghost for a real T9 player, there will be no sense of accomplishment or competition then... And that's boring

cobalt siren
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The OS also have the stats of their level, so as you get to, let's say level 210, you're gonna be at quite the advantage before gear is even taken into account

rough jewel
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I don't know what non-health stats are, but I can say that the:

  • T9 OS has 1220 base health
  • T7 OS has 920 base health
  • T5 OS has 620 base health
  • T3 OS has 320 base health
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(So their base ward is 610, 460, 310, 160, respectively)

blissful cairn
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Wait.... 1220 base health for T9??? That's crazy low

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Isn't that like half the HP of a T8 player?

cobalt siren
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With 0 gear

opaque wren
rough jewel
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The latter

blissful cairn
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Ok... So like 1/7 of a real player of the same level, looks like my ghost comment wasn't too far off

opaque wren
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Glass Cannon builds only on the horizon

rough jewel
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Glass cannon builds don't work if you always go second lol

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especially when you don't have second chance

blissful cairn
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And no second chance with no classes

rough jewel
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All of this ties into why I don't think celestials are a bad idea - they pull a lot of the weight that the othersoul to player difference brings

signal arrow
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A challenge to overcome for fresh players, a curb stomp for switched on ones, and an interesting low grade proxy war for high level players when there's no locals. Perfect.

rough jewel
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people are scared of the oneshotty celestial power, since those are the well known problematic ones

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but being a glass cannon is redundant if you instantly get oneshot yourself

blissful cairn
rough jewel
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A weapon full of attack power is going to leave the othersoul equally as dead as a regular weapon

signal arrow
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Eh, when you take into account godforged gear and pimped out accessories on, say, the T5 othersouls

cobalt siren
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Even with a 200% DFed Ithra's blade my T9 OS cannot 1 shot the NPC

blissful cairn
opaque wren
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I think 7☆ is where I'll focus. Aren't most player base in there somewhere

cobalt siren
signal arrow
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Every curb stomping level 224 T9 player is going to become a T10 proxy war participant sooner rather than later, which is what you want

blissful cairn
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Or will ring of restraint because they realize the would lose too much as soon as they level up and their OS sucks that badly

tight cedar
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There are non cele wep and adorn options that perform pretty well at that t8 tier range. All depends how much you wanna hustle. If indeed t8 and t9 fight for the same settlement tier, i can see a world where t8s new to the game struggle for sure, but it's not impossible

Plus only you know what the titan augment rework holds. Cele wep nerf via prom hands/selene hands?

blissful cairn
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Non defensive celestial augments likely won't matter with the souls only having 1/7th the HP of a real player...

tight cedar
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Plus most people play pet classes at those tiers. Keep calm and manticore eyes to watch the 0s pour inmighty_mimic

signal arrow
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The beast taming gear is T8, hard shut down your local horus chasing summoner

tight cedar
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Exactly

blissful cairn
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Okay, so you can defend against maybe 1 class that nobody likes

tight cedar
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All u need to defend those areas at lower tiers is nocturna gear mightiest_mimic

tight cedar
blissful cairn
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Beo damage likely wouldn't be mitigated enough to stop their damage... Remember no AL

signal arrow
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If a T9 changes their playstyle to overcome you great, that's a win they learnt something

tight cedar
blissful cairn
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But that would make you lose to anybody else with OS

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Or other classes

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So you are fully weak against 4 classes and all other OS players, but you can stop 2 classes

signal arrow
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Sure but you're not playing for complete 24/7 dominance of the spot like we do in the current system. More dynamic, changing hands more often. Fun.

tight cedar
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Right. If you want to set and forget just anti-pet and carry on.

People sweating will have more sets to swap around. As it is now basically with more layers and more turnover

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Original point being i dont think cele weps are too oppressive at t9

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As hard as it is for an actual t9 to kill tower bosses

blissful cairn
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Agreed, honestly based on the stats we are seeing, I think that without celestial weapons there will be no competition between a OS and a real player, it'll be like the old Ghost of territories

blissful cairn
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I for one welcome a Celestial adornment that lowers your chance of being counterattacked

gloomy bough
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I remember the old days of "Ghost of Caelani" meaning that my rewards were no longer active for that piece of land. I often wondered if that was still going on in the background.

signal arrow
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For me the key thing is that anyone who's going around slapping everyone with their overpowered spirit tamer build is going to age out of that tier sooner or later and join the proxy war. So I don't mind the othersouls being weak to players at the top end of the tier

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And if it's built like that, celestial or not becomes a non issue. Fill your boots do your best

blissful cairn
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You will have people who build alts to dominate each tier and be untouchable by anybody anyway then....

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And will ring of restraint to keep it there

signal arrow
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No accessories slot

blissful cairn
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For a real T9 player???

signal arrow
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Ugh, point

visual grotto
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Is that new guild new building too?

signal arrow
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Yeah alts might be an issue. One that can theoretically be overcome with making RoR not apply to PvP territory battles I guess 🤷‍♂️

gentle bison
# blissful cairn Which reiterates the T3 war will probably be more competitive than the T9 one......

My thoughts are, honestly, assuming the system is only unlocked once you build the Guild Building, and the Guild Building price remains where it is (500k Gold), I'm not sure how many T2-T3 will be building the Guild Building.
It's not a huge amount of gold (assuming they get it from Arena, the only real money-maker at that point in the game) relative to their level.
But 500k gold would be a fair amount of the gold they have at that time. I've seen natural T4s with only 2-3 million gold.

Gold_Obtained_for_Winning_Arena_based_on_Opponents_Level.png
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I expect there to still be a decent number of players participating in the lowest crownship bracket, but not nearly as much as mid-game.

rough jewel
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Your main isn't benefitting from your alts holding areas

honest tusk
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Amity scouting alts (to check whether the hour is couchable), T7 summoning scroll for both codexing purposes and specific mats (Fallen Rhada drops titanium and fogstone too, for example), being a goblin and taking rewards from anyone else using an othersoul just for the sake of anyone else not grabbing it

blissful cairn
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True, but say I want dominate T9 completely unopposed, I could make a T9 alt fully RoR, and make an unstoppable T9 with max level celestial, and nobody could oppose it because the OS have no hope with all the handicaps... I am just saying anything that can be made stagnant will be made stagnate

harsh gust
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No need to put all of that effort into an alt tho

blissful cairn
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People do that type of effort with alts all the time...

harsh gust
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Tho I don't see the problem

blissful cairn
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I'm purely saying, you could probably gain more crowns completely uncontested and as a result lead to way better leaderboard outcomes since you wouldn't have to worry about losing land

gentle bison
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If someone wants to use their time like that, honestly, they should go for it.
The new system would still be more inclusive to more tiers and more players that the existing system.

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Assuming we are 100% correct about, and did nothing about, the alt-ability of the system

blissful cairn
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My point was more competition keeps the game lively as opposed to letting someone lock it down uncontested....

green pollen
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The current territory system already allows people to lock it down

merry chasm
blissful cairn
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Not really, end game is really rock paper scissors already... Builds counter other builds

blissful cairn
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It's speculation, and I fully acknowledge that

merry chasm
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Imo, with a good setup, if someone wanted to make an alt for each of the tiers in their area, they could mostly control everything. Unless another player wants to alt play with it as well

blissful cairn
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Yep, if the other stats follow suit, even with a full T9 Celestial built for the OS, a real player may Zero out a OS already

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I'm not sure how much we will see that in the Beta since most players have max level characters on the beta... But could be interesting

fiery crystal
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I don't know about you guys but I barely upgraded any weapon past level 3 or 4 and even less armor past that point until t7 t8.

I think someone who is really dedicated or has a RoR alt will be able to sweep low tier OSs, but I feel like full df/gf gear that is best for that tier will be rather hard to overcome for just a normal player moving through t5 in like a week or less

merry chasm
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But that's not stopped by not allowing celestials on OS, unless you're also banning them on real players

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Also, you're doing nothing but hurting your main character by placing an alt in a spot your main could hold

blissful cairn
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You main can't hold it if you are already T10 and may have T9 players do that to the land by you... So Alts

merry chasm
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Unless I'm mistaken, your OS holding a lower tier area gives your main the rewards

brisk vector
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i just realised, an othersoul will be at lvl 50 while a player could be at lvl 74, giving a stat boost to real player over othersouls, which is real nice to somewhat balance out t11 players having jacked up othersouls

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maybe not for t3, but t7 and t9 will benefit

honest tusk
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But a random T9 summoner going over your settlements will have a easier job of defeating your OS than an alt, simply by virtue of having amities and accessories

blissful cairn
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But you wouldn't be holding it, a T9 player who you have no hope against because of low OS stats means they would... You can compete with them if you made an Alt though

brisk vector
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I like that, because a real player should always have a better time then othersouls for the sake of empowering player's ability to enjoy this content over veterent players

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I am not a fan of the idea that top tier players should dominate EVERY single brackets no matter what

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we already have our t10+ brackets, and othersouls will do the job of taking places that have no tracking from new players

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we want low tier players to feel like they can enjoy this content without having to wait untill they are t10 AND geared

blissful cairn
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Dominate no, definitely not... Be competitive? Maybe.. might be healthy for the game to cause more player interaction

brisk vector
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I think godforged t3, 5, 7, 9 gear will still compensate massively

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did we get a confirmation if you can put t10 adornament on othersoul gear?

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because that would break balance for sure

blissful cairn
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It also incentivises T9 players to never level to T10 because they would lose too much income by leveling

brisk vector
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there are many reasons to stay on a tier if you want to stay on a tier

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nothing wrong with players chosing one way or the other

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points at Exp-Less

honest tusk
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Also, a T3/T5/T7 character will be actually able to use gear from bosses from a tier above their own, while OS might not be able to equip them cough cough manticore gear with rebirth

blissful cairn
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But now imagine you would open 2000 crowns you had earned to easy attack by active T11 OS by leveling up... It would be even more reason to not level and finally join endgame

brisk vector
blissful cairn
harsh gust
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You lose income by lvling?

brisk vector
merry chasm
blissful cairn
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You would open your defenses up so much you would lose crowns rapidly by leveling yes

blissful cairn
brisk vector
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thankfully I do a lot of roadtrips which allows me to claim 200+ spots that probably not many people claim

harsh gust
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Your othersoul is still there with your gear. I don't get how would you lose income by lvling up

brisk vector
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his point is that your othersoul wont be able to defend as well as you could yourself at that tier

harsh gust
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Aren't the restrictions applied to you too?

brisk vector
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so your choice is to stay on a lower tier as a king of your realm's bracket, or progress and possibly lose territory to other active players while you go back up in power

rough jewel
harsh gust
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No amities

rough jewel
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Ha no

harsh gust
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Whatever are the others

gentle bison
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I'm more worried about this theoretical player that is obtaining the entirety (or majority) of their income of gold, orns, equipment, and/or materials from exclusively

rough jewel
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that's Othersouls Onle™️

blissful cairn
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OS has 1/7th the HP of an actual player, the OS of a T9 player would be defending for you if you went from lvl 224 to 225....but you would be defending yourself if you stayed 224... So suddenly you have terrible defense and get obliterated just by leveling up

harsh gust
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Oh I can see their point then

brisk vector
rough jewel
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Othersouls have:

  • Low Health
  • No amities
  • No accessories
  • No classes (no passives)
  • No specs
  • No mana (thus Low Ward)
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They do, however, have better gear, since higher tier people can afford to upgrade and godforge lowbie gear with more ease than lowbies

brisk vector
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it is basicly like having a lvl 19-29-39-49 pvp twink in WoW Classic, you sacrifice progressing for power in your bracket

harsh gust
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Hm

gloomy bough
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I expect the players that are currently dominating the Competitive Leaderboard will ignore the Othersouls. Instead, they will create four alts with Rings of Restraint and trick them out with the best gear and spells possible for a defensive posture. No artificial limitations, full HP, and so on. You won't be able to pass your antiques on to the alts, but for 7x the HP, who cares?

harsh gust
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So it is going to be a wet blanket fight

brisk vector
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no matter how low your hp is, if you have more defence then what they can dish out, 0 will be 0

rough jewel
merry chasm
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Do we know what the rewards for the proofs are? Would there be a reason you'd ever want to sit at t9 just to try and farm more proofs?

harsh gust
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I feel like they could turn the passives on

gloomy bough
brisk vector
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right now, what I heard of the reward, they are not released in terms of "Out of guild" rewards, but I know at some point Odie wished for currencies to be tradable between guilds

gentle bison
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Someone will always do The Thing™️ that nobody expects anyone else to do.

rough jewel
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Then what's the point of taking them with alts? Why not just let the people of their appropriate tiers keep the areas?

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You can't build exceptions for every edge case. If people are going to be camping an alt at every tier to be dicks about it then cool

blissful cairn
eternal comet
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Alts aren’t the issue. My biggest issue is that OS seem to be way too low on stats to actually be minimally competitive. Guess we’ll have to wait for live release to see since beta won’t let us test that

rough jewel
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OS are built weak to give real players an advantage, as their point isn't to let T11 players dominate all tiers of play

stable elbow
harsh gust
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But let the passives on maaaan

rough jewel
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Each player should aim to be competitive at their own tier, and then maybe punch a tier down if they can't take their current competitor on

gloomy bough
harsh gust
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I mean t3

rough jewel
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Pless can very much stop you

harsh gust
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Oh yesh? What is he going to do? Fly over and take my land?

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Deja vu

blissful cairn
signal arrow
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Who's this mythical alt player who is hotboxing five phones while driving down the motorway

merry chasm
stable elbow
harsh gust
#

It counts as an illness for sure

gloomy bough
brisk vector
#

I like it,
dead region with only t10+ players? OS can fight it off
Someone is lower tier, he gets to feel strong for a while
Someone makes an alt to take the places? Good for his alt I guess no one benefit?
A few players of a lower tier are active? they get to enjoy fighting for their places without being completly overpowered

signal arrow
#

If it actually becomes stagnant, nerf the ring of restraint. Boom, done

brisk vector
#

It will very much be a regional flux thing that depends 100% on how active and varied your player pool is

signal arrow
#

But with respect to the playerbase, I don't think orna is really popular enough that it'll be a true problem

eternal comet
gloomy bough
rough jewel
#

Though you are then suboptimally geared for the other four classes

brisk vector
#

My regional leaderboard is very stagnant i've been on the top since t9 and only a tiny bit of movement has been happenning under me, I wholeheartenly wish for the players under me to enjoy claiming some land without having to face my rs

blissful cairn
brisk vector
#

Will I claim everything initialy? Damm right, am I going to fight for spots that are held by real players? Naw, I will gladly fight their othersouls if they are marked as such

#

Nothing can change that, It is soo funny facing Exp-Less randomly in the arena when I am leveling alts

#

is that unfair that he parked a military missleproof wall there? yeah and?

merry chasm
#

We won't know how competitive OS are until we actually get to play around with them

eternal comet
brisk vector
#

Man I want to get expless to claim the tile at my house and see how long it takes for his stats to go down and make him beatable with my t3 OS

gloomy bough
signal arrow
#

How big is an area currently, about 200 meters? And we're going for 30% of that density. Only 510.1 million km² on the surface of earth, might be a bit crowded

#

Yes yes oceans buy a boat if you want to dominate smdh

blissful cairn
#

It seems like my main point is being missed which is weird.... Forget Alts... You are a T9 player, you are completely untouchable by T10-T11 players OS, you go and capture 20k crowns and have a massive empire where you get large daily income because the rewards for the new guild are good... What is your incentive to ever level up to T10...

brisk vector
gloomy bough
signal arrow
#

The real pay 2 win

frigid imp
#

Hello, what are the actual rewards for this new system, compared to the old one? I haven't seen any images or examples.

brisk vector
brisk vector
gloomy bough
blissful cairn
merry chasm
#

What is the income that you need to farm at t9?

gloomy bough
brisk vector
gentle bison
#

I'm not sure I see the issue to be honest. If someone actually went around and had enough fun to take [Insert Arbitrary Number] Crowns, and are still having fun doing so,
then you are correct, there is a disincentive to moving into T10.
It doesn't mean that moving to T10 is pointless

brisk vector
#

the proof are daily income?

gloomy bough
eternal comet
#

Proofs apparently can’t be used to get mats so that wouldn’t be overwhelmingly broken

brisk vector
#

again, I live and travel places where the active player pool is limited

merry chasm
honest tusk
signal arrow
blissful cairn
brisk vector
cobalt siren
brisk vector
#

I don't think we should cater to that

#

the current system is nice in how many ways you earn leaderboard points, and with guild based leaderboards, lots of ways to hit the top if you care about that

gloomy bough
blissful cairn
#

Well feels weird to promote a leaderboard being dominated by low tier players... But okay

signal arrow
#

I think my favourite part of my canadian trip was driving out of vancouver and seeing a big sign saying no cell signal for 200km

stable elbow
eternal comet
gloomy bough
brisk vector
cobalt siren
eternal comet
brisk vector
gloomy bough
inner harness
#

The value is getting to test it and provide feedback in the exclusive channel.

The leaks are part of playing an online game, and gatekeeping information only limits valuable feedback

signal arrow
cobalt siren
#

Patreons have access to the Alpha, things are still getting added as of today so anything that we see or play cannot be confirmed as coming to the main game at all

eternal comet
blissful cairn
brisk vector
stable elbow
inner harness
#

Meh, if the current state of a patch/system/whatever isn't far enough along to be discussed, it should still be under an NDA

harsh gust
#

Leaks? Sure shower me in

inner harness
#

The second you set it out into the world, you're going to get leaks and feedback.

For a perfect example, the entire celestial weapons discussion was, prior to Odie chiming in, a leak.

Still a good discussion to have now, rather than 2 weeks from now when the system is more set in stone

rough jewel
#

If NF wanted general feedback already, they'd have it on open beta

gloomy bough
rough jewel
#

In closed beta they're testing function, not balance

inner harness
rough jewel
#

This thread was opened for discussion of Hype posts

#

but you know, leaks leak and here we are

gloomy bough
harsh gust
#

Leaks are fine idk

stable elbow
#

They have to keep reminding me constantly that I am testing function and not balance and that many mechanics are going to be different in live so I haven't been sharing information for that reason.

signal arrow
#

Does the twitter post that hasn't made it to hype yet count as a leak

harsh gust
rough jewel
signal arrow
#

Cool 'cos I haven't actually seen anyone discussing it yet

rough jewel
#

Not sure why it's not on Hype

harsh gust
#

Bring the dudley hammer

gloomy bough
gentle bison
# rough jewel Not sure why it's not on Hype

Cause its kinda nice to have unique Hype in different places. Such as the fact I haven't seen any of the Northern Forge secret Tik Tok content
cause I refuse to use said application

signal arrow
#

I want to have a big knock down drag out argument about whether a sphinx tail for shrines is good or not mightiest_mimic

rough jewel
#

Okay but I'd rather not get hype than to have to go on tiktok

harsh gust
#

Jon is right

gentle bison
harsh gust
#

It's ok
I will tank them

brisk vector
#

I rather not play orna than be required to have a tiktok account to play Orna, thankfully we don't live in such nightmarish timelines

signal arrow
#

It's fine I'm sure that argument will be had a lot via the in-game settlement messages

gloomy bough
blissful cairn
#

You know... Good point... We have no verification that OS stats will stay so low... Got to keep trusting Odie will make it good

stiff flame
stable elbow
#

There is also literally Starlink...

#

You can use it to play orna if you are hardcore enough

#

and it will get in those valleys as normal los blindspots (not all but a lot more)

brisk vector
stable elbow
#

Depends on which mountain you are on top of too, some of them are practically drive to the top, hop out walk up some stairs (or a path) and done vs hours of climbing

stiff flame
#

^ none of the ones I did took hours. And I don't think anyone is doing it for the territories lol. More of a I'm here, might as well grab it and name it while I can and see if it ever gets taken

gloomy bough
stiff flame
#

Go run the switzerland trail in CO and you'll find some lol

stable elbow
#

I have a list of the hard ones if you want them for "reasons"

jaunty remnant
#

I wonder if anyone yet owns Edinburgh of the Seven Seas. Would be kinda fun to own territory that's 2000 miles away from any other land 😅

stable elbow
#

In case people don't like to use X

gloomy bough
# stable elbow

Thanks! I don't have access to X.
I wonder what a "Crownguard" is?

harsh gust
#

Wtf is x

gloomy bough
harsh gust
#

Twitter is twitter

gloomy bough
#

X = X

harsh gust
#

Who tf calls it x

#

Well musk does it but still

blissful cairn
#

Crownguard guards your crowns??

#

Like maybe it's a currency to use Othersouls?

ashen iris
#

X = (Y-B)/M

stable elbow
#

The App formerly known as twitter gets too long to say

fossil ridge
#

I just say twitter

#

Xd

#

Saying X is just weird

#

For me at least

stable elbow
fossil ridge
#

No, that yeah

stable elbow
odd barn
#

Was it confirmed what tiers the other souls are?

gloomy bough
stable elbow
#

It's in hype currently showing those 4 levels yeah

#

Could that change? /shrug it's early alpha/beta not sure what they are calling it anymore

gloomy bough
#

However, there hasn't been any opposition to those choices and it seems to be a fairly stable possibility that those will be the levels used.

stable elbow
#

I mean did you see the whole convo today about OS?

gloomy bough
#

yup

stable elbow
#

Things could change, I just don't know what to call it as some have taken to calling it a beta since there was a more closed alpha probably with NDA's

harsh gust
#

I just hope that OS get to keep class passives

#

It would be kinda too bare bones without but who knows

#

Maybe it is better that way

brisk vector
#

mind you, most are a t9+ issue

brisk vector
# stable elbow

so, one of the currency, you can just farm by passing the crown to your alts and back to you?

stable elbow
#

I posted the Hype from X - not sure how I can answer you on that, thanks for the ping though 😄

harsh gust
brisk vector
harsh gust
#

Anyway, not every class has to be good at everything

#

And if you can choose, i don't see a problem

merry chasm
brisk vector
#

I just imagine that there is room for abuse

#

like everything else

tawny sparrow
#
poll_question_text

unofficial poll: Should T9 othersouls be able to equip celestial weapons?

victor_answer_votes

22

total_votes

37

victor_answer_id

1

victor_answer_text

Yes they should!

fossil ridge
#

Odie voted yes 😔

merry chasm
#

I assume a trip out would be the difference of 1 guaranteed from taking from alt (take with alt going out, take with main coming back) or 2 games of RPS, (1 going out, 1 coming back). Just assumption based on how areas currently work, who actually knows. But doesn't seem too abusive

hearty idol
#

Just out of curiosity, what's the reasoning behind being forced to remove previously earned daily income in order to access this new content?

cobalt siren
harsh gust
#

I guess it gives a chance to lower tier players

rough jewel
# hearty idol Just out of curiosity, what's the reasoning behind being forced to remove previo...

I'm not NF so I can't really speak for their intentions. However, from my point of view:

Fairness.

  • The old system is likely to be discontinued for new players, as it is counterintuitive to have two ingame systems that fulfil the same purpose, but one of them is objectively worse than the other. With that in mind, it wouldn't make sense for old players to have a permanent, uncontested upside of income, no matter how small, that new players would never get to have access to.

Overwhelmingness

  • The removal of the old system's rewards prevents people from suffering from "over-efficiency-ing" both systems. I've seen a fair share of people stressing about, with the new system, now having to hold both areas AND settlements for their optimal play. And that's already with no rewards in place. I can only imagine more people would suffer from this mentality if the rewards were kept in place
#

Though as Sirith said, the current daily income is so negligible that it doesn't really matter that you're losing it

#

people with dozens of thousands of areas' daily income amounts to one or two refineries worth of materials, and about as much gold and orns as a t8 boss kill

#

I suppose a third point would be to incentivise the people to play the new system rather than the old

#

splitting the playerbase between two systems isn't the most optimal of moves, so keeping area control as a for-fun-thing while the new system is there for the rewards keeps the population mostly playing the new system

opaque wren
#

The old system is there when you don't have anything else to do

hearty idol
#

All my passive material income was from this system though. Thousands of areas taken and none of that income will translate? Until yesterday I had no Idea of this better refinery exploit workaround for passive material income. I will have to start fresh and take advantage of this hidden exploit workaround with refineries while simultaneously being forced to compete to use this new system that will be more efficient too. I get that in the long run people's efforts will need to be negated to some degree for the health of the game. In this sense I don't see how leaving the better refinery system of earning passive income in the game makes sense if you're going to remove others' previous efforts to get daily income in the advertised way that doesn't involve dragging buildings miles to circumvent building cap.

rocky dome
#

How did passive income help anything? even with thousands of territories, its negligible gains compared to a single boss horde run?

cobalt siren
green pollen
# rocky dome How did passive income help anything? even with thousands of territories, its ne...

I have about 400 territories and a single boss kill already gives me far more than any daily income does and it's not even close. I can see it being a little different for those with thousands but even then it's barely anything still. I can understand feeling like one's efforts were negated, but if the new system's income level is as good as it sounds then I find it odd for some to argue for the benefit of the old system

#

At least if the contentious part in question is the income, that is

#

Like, imagine putting a toooooon of effort for meager returns, but feeling at least somewhat proud that you're getting what you are for your efforts... but then someone says "you could get entire multiples more for half the effort or less", why would someone say "But I don't wanna"?

stiff flame
#

That's daily income of over 40k territories and coming off a roadtrip with lots activated

#

It's pretty garbage passive income lol

eternal comet
#

Literally less than a horde boss dungeon. Don’t get why anyone would complain about it being replaced by a better reward system

rocky dome
hearty idol
#

In all fairness a lot of the nodes are weekly so a single day doesnt give an accurate portrayal. Its just a matter of one play styles passive income being negated and the others being left. The refinery playstyle still logs in and gets all the "effort" to circumvent the assumed intended building cap, meanwhile the people who used the intended system have all their efforts erased. While the numbers may not be much, some people did like he said 40,000 up areas which in turn amplifies it to being comparable to another refinery I didnt know I could have. Its still a lot of effort to acquire all those territories. Arguably more in spirit of the gps aspect of it as well. Now its being punished while the refinery menu warrior aspect seems to be my only route now. Just puts people further behind who aren't already utilizing this exploit workaround.

eternal comet
#

Refineries should be deleted

cobalt siren
# hearty idol In all fairness a lot of the nodes are weekly so a single day doesnt give an acc...

I don't understand why you're making such a big point about the refineries, they have nothing to do with territory or the conq guild, and no one is forcing you to build them. Yes they are profitable, but there are many top tier players who do not use them simply cause they don't want to.
As for current passive income, there is really no defending it, the amount of time it takes to get the tens of thousands of territory is currently not worth the effort, therefore NF is trying to fix that with the conq guild. With the new system you'll be able to engage territory type pvp and get properly rewarded.

eternal comet
#

I don’t think that’s a relevant point for this topic in specific though

green pollen
#

For an IRL equivalent, it's like if I was working 40-50 hours a week for minimum wage and someone told me I could work 20 hours a week for $40 an hour, I'd be a fool to say "but I suffered so much of my life for this minimum wage, I don't know how I feel about the new offer"

hearty idol
# cobalt siren I don't understand why you're making such a big point about the refineries, they...

I think this patch is precisely forcing me to build them if I'm understanding it correctly. Thousands of territories balances out to decent passive income when a ton of effort was put in. All the effort of doing that to compensate for lack of refineries will have been for nothing. Starting at zero for passive income, all while competing in the same conquerers guild now. Only one persons playstyle gets punished. I am now forced to build refineries while the people who had their passive income via exploit workaround, keep their efforts and still get to go conquerer's guild too.

stable elbow
#

You aren't and your continued complaining about them in a thread that has nothing to do with them is kind of getting annoying

green pollen
#

Hypothetically, let's say that being the top rank of 5 of the new settlements gives you more passive income than the thousands of territories you may have currently. How would that be forcing a refinery focused play style exactly?

stable elbow
#

I mean you spent hours yesterday on it in the main chat and now you are here again in an unrelated thread complaining about it

#

The new system will give you new passive income after you go take settlements, they are better rewards than the current system.

hearty idol
eternal comet
#

Literally no correlation. Passive income from the current system will be replaced by better passive income from the new system. Any other attempt at a correlation is nonsensical

hearty idol
#

Nah passive income earned one way is being reduced to zero for one playstyle, while the other keeps theirs. I think thats the gist. Any efforts made in one playstyle to not have to play in the menues is erased.

#

Thats the main point here.

#

The efforts made in previous territory conquests shouldn't be negated if the only other form of passive income isnt removed as well.

stable elbow
#

At this point i honestly think Khronic is super salty about refineries and pissed off for playing so long not knowing he could build more than one or he is a troll and now he has moved from general to here to continue trying to troll.

hearty idol
#

Again can we discuss the topic at hand, why do you take it so personally?

stable elbow
#

The topic at hand has nothing to do with refineries. I answered your question new system gives better rewards than current system. You go out for a few rides in the new system and will get more than the old system that you may have taken weeks to do.

#

Old system gives like 2 boss dungeons of materials for 40k territories, new system is better than that.

green pollen
#

From my perspective (without knowing any history of your past comments elsewhere, Khronic), your feelings seem to be based on a self created concern with no real substantial proof it'll play out the way you think it will.
You say that one play style is being negated and the other exists, and that is the issue you have. However, you're not putting the new system in the place of the one removed in your equation. You're treating it like a full removal on one side, creating an imbalance, but as far as I can tell based on your wording you're not mentally placing the new system there in its place

#

And when one does put the new system in that equation the refinery style is far outweighed

stable elbow
#

The amount of time spent on here complaining about refineries could have easily equated to 20-30 refineries (or more) being placed at his home now.

#

But that has nothing to do with Territories vs Conquest

green pollen
#

^ Correct, it doesn't

#

It's a self created correlation

hearty idol
#

It does though... all the passive income earned from not wanting to do that is erased by this guild. Putting them at zero along with the refinery warriors.

stable elbow
#

correlation as we know does not mean causation

hearty idol
#

Both the refinery warriors and the people who had tons of territory now are on a level playing field.

#

Except one has refineries and can compete in the guild, the other doesnt.

green pollen
#

Yeeesss, and what do you think will happen when somene, I dunno... participates in the new system?

hearty idol
#

Remove refineries if you remove my passive income from territories.

stable elbow
#

lol

green pollen
#

That was a quick skirt around

stable elbow
#

I am telling you troll level

hearty idol
#

The passive income from the two is directly related. I dont see how you can't see. If you're saying oh you can still build refineries, then yeah its a forced playstyle.

green pollen
#

The only relation that exists is that both generate passive income via materials or otherwise. That's literally it

cobalt siren
hearty idol
#

It does though, If I wanted to opt out of the refinery playstyle I would get passive income in territory control. Efforts were made to do that to balance and acquire passive income. Others made efforts toward refinery exploits workarounds for passive income. One persons time and effort for passive income via territory in place of refineries is being diminished, while another gets to compete in this brand new system and benefit from it as well.

cobalt siren
#

That's not a direct relation though

stable elbow
#

smh... No the old system is being replaced not voided you have a newer better system introduced.

green pollen
#

There's this weird mental roadblock on display where putting the new system in place of the old one isn't happening in their equation

#

Which, at this point, I don't know how to help that

signal arrow
#

Guys, it's time to nerf the travellers guild. I'm getting too much passive income from all these steps I take every day 😔

stable elbow
#

Telling you troll like so much

green pollen
#

At this point I'm believing you

hearty idol
green pollen
#

Aaaaaaaand theeeeeeen they do the new system and get passive income that they lost before

#

I don't get what part of that you're missing

#

You get passive income from participating in the conq guild and taking settlements

#

You're not just wiping away your territories with no returns

hearty idol
#

So you retroactively get income from previously earned territories in this new system?

green pollen
#

No

hearty idol
#

Or you're saying hey just re take the territories to re acquire new passive income, while the other playstyle has no efforts to make up and can benefit and compete with you too?

green pollen
#

Let me put this in a different way... One a little more concise

#

Old system: Passive income comes from territory control. You cannot gain income from settlements.
New system: Passive income comes from settlement control. You cannot gain passive income from territory control.

When you join the new system, yes your territories are removed from you and you your lose income from them. However, you then obtain settlements in a similar manner to territory control and gain income from them, and at a MUCH higher rate than territories ever did

hearty idol
#

How do my efforts and progress from the previous system to acquire passive income translate to the new system? If its being erased, will all passive income from refineries be erased too? Otherwise it seems one playstyle is being punished while the other is now allowed to compete with an advantage.

rough jewel
#

Alright folks, you've talked about refineries for long enough. Refineries are not a part of the conqueror's guild. They will not be touched on the new update. They do not warrant discussion

#

Any further refinery talk will be deemed off topic and politely requested to be discussed elsewhere.

green pollen
#

You only stand to gain by playing the new system

rough jewel
#

ahem
Please discuss refineries elsewhere. You can even open a new discussion thread if you so desire.

green pollen
#

My (edit: most current) comments are relating purely to the territory control and conq guild systems

rough jewel
#

(Yes but I have a feeling the message currently being written is not)

green pollen
#

Khronic is having issues with putting the new conq guild system in their equation of income when the territory side of things are being removed. I am trying to help them understand it's not a situation of one being removed and not being replaced

#

Even though for some reason they seem to continue to believe as much

hearty idol
#

All I'm saying is one playstyle is going into it with an advantage while the other is entering the guild with their efforts diminished.

rough jewel
#

No need for context, I have read it.

#

The only thing the systems have in common are they are passive systems. People participating in one were not forbidden from participating in another, and therefore they are not correlated

green pollen
#

Exactly, and that's what we've been trying to say

rough jewel
#

As such, a parallel between them is redundant, and is non-productive to discuss in this thread

#

It's ultimately a waste of time to read it if NF come into this thread

hearty idol
#

I was under the impression it wasnt a necessary playstyle though, and now the efforts put in to avoid that playstyle are being removed by this system.

#

and offered to the same people benefiting from the system avoided.

green pollen
#

... Man, I give up

rough jewel
#

Seriously, last warning, stop this talk, or I'll start issuing timeouts

spark plover
#

How many Othersouls will we be able to have?

Would it be enough to, say...house them in our OT residences to make the town feel a little more alive?

I'm not sure what the purpose of visiting them in their houses would be, though.

tawny sparrow
#

according to the most recent hype post there's four othersouls

green pollen
#

Scrolling back, something I hadn't considered is your mention of being overwhelmed, John... I was ready to go to Legacy when this drops, but when put that way, maybe I'd be better off just diving in fully and not looking back

tawny sparrow
#

yeah also considering that

green pollen
#

Granted, it's not like I'm trading territory so often than it'd be a major hurdle for me, but it is definitely just another extra thing. Then again, I often am looking for extra things I could do, so... hrm...

spark plover
#

I saw the four listed there, but I thought that was just to display the levels/tiers of play for the Othersouls rather than their capacity, so to speak.

cobalt siren
tawny sparrow
#

how many othersouls were you hoping for?

#

one for every tier?

spark plover
#

If it's 1 Othersoul per tier, I assume that will mean placing one of them for defense at 1 settlement won't prevent you from using them at another, or...?

#

I'm just curious, is all. I personally don't mind a limitation on T10s/T11s tormenting lower tier crowns, but it might be an issue for some players if they don't know how it'll all work before having to make their decision on which mode they'll play when it's released.

signal arrow
#

The assumption is the othersoul just slots into your previous league place globally once you outlevel that spot, no different from the current setup. But I don't think that's been officially officially confirmed.

spark plover
#

Oh okay, that makes much more sense than having to travel out to manage logistics for all of them, which was something that I was wondering about -- Whether or not we would need to revisit them while we still hold the crown, as we currently do with area control.

green pollen
#

I wonder if there's going to be a menu to set that stuff up outside of the settlement, or if you have to tap on an active settlement you're in in order to make changes

rough jewel
# green pollen Scrolling back, something I hadn't considered is your mention of being overwhelm...

@cobalt siren (pinging because you also showed interest)

Yeah, that's one of the main things that people were asking on day one when it was all revealed - why would anyone pick new world when they can pick legacy? You get everything new plus keep the old with legacy, so what's the advantage of new world?

Not being overwhelmed is the answer. Not having that psychological nagging at the back of your head telling you to take the area, because there's no need for you to take the area.

#

So might as well not see it. Not interact with it.

#

What's the point of seeing it, if all it does is bring you anxiety? Make it go away. It doesn't benefit you anyhow

spark plover
#

But my reputation!

#

The world must know that I own North Hohmoqtown!

rough jewel
#

As per #1271132843094839408 message , reputation shouldn't be a factor

#

And you can still own the settlement near North Hohmoqtown

spark plover
#

I know that. I'm just saying that's all the current way seems to reward you with.

rough jewel
#

yepyep

spark plover
#

I'll be happy to never again have hundreds of notifications about losing areas.

rough jewel
#

You'll have hundreds of notifications about losing settlements instead

#

yippeee

spark plover
#

One-third fewer, at least... Or something like that 😅

rough jewel
spark plover
signal arrow
#

I enjoy reading my loss notifications and wondering who's taking the local roundabout from me at 5am. Just wish I had a map of them.

#

So that's probably somewhere on the local train line, a random bit of motorway, the non-ratt roundabout near me and ... well, flavourtown 5,245km west is probably Toronto?

image.png
spark plover
#

The renaming definitely helps but it's difficult to do since the rename will be placed on whatever location you're in when you confirm it rather than where you started typing the name.

Can't really ask my driver to stop in the middle of traffic 😅

green pollen
#

I mean, you could, if you're brave enough

cobalt siren
green pollen
#

Can we rename settlements?

#

It was probably mentioned somewhere, but...

stable elbow
#

You can rename areas. Not sure about settlements.

stiff flame
#

Pretty sure odie mentioned being able to leave notes

#

Maybe he didn't. I can't find anything now

signal arrow
#

There's a messages tab in the hype image

stable elbow
#

Oh yeah last hype

opaque wren
#

Will biking be a fun and viable option for Conquerer?

#

Or will driving take top spot

#

Does owning dogs help or hinder an aspiring Conquerer?

frail stirrup
#

What about rabbits?

opaque wren
#

Will walkies become a fun and healthy way to play ?

stable elbow
#

Do you walkie 20km a day?

opaque wren
opaque wren
#

Lessgo

stable elbow
opaque wren
stable elbow
#

I can't say for sure since the mechanics for spawning would probably change from the alpha

opaque wren
#

Will these be like neighbourhood facilities ?

stable elbow
#

But given their quoted 30% ratio to current territory I imagine one could walk and see a few more than sitting at home

#

Car or public transit will probably still be superior though

signal arrow
#

The real question is, if they aren't on a separate map layer can they be accessed from waygates mightiest_mimic

rough jewel
stable elbow
#

Yeah no waygate or return to OT shenanigans

signal arrow
#

Darn. I had fun thoughts of a designated battle royale area

novel gorge
# tawny sparrow

Hm. In principle I'm not opposed. However it's very difficult for T9s to obtain celaugments - idk how much it would actually incentivize a T9 to build a celeweap considering without celaugments it would be kind of useless. As a corollary, regarding the potential that allowing T9 OS to equip celeweaps could introduce imbalance between OS and players, I don't think such imbalance is inherent to the ability to equip celeweaps, but rather that tower titans are simply not designed for a T9 to defeat.

(I did read the discussion about this earlier in the thread, but I was on a mountain and forgor to write my thoughts)

#

this totally isn't me once again advocating T9 versions of the titans noooooo

fiery crystal
#

Unless you are going on the same route multiple times and just taking one tier at a time, which I suppose is an option as well

jaunty remnant
#

That's a good point. Having more stuff to do per territory (now, settlement) definitely incentivizes moving slower/being able to park for a minute. Or multiple passes.

For all the highway stuff they'll get one-tap but the lower tiers could have much longer lasting territory. (Though there's also more lower-tier players, so... hard to say what'll happen 😅 )

stiff flame
#

Are the othersouls playable like your main character though? Or do they auto fight the lower tier player on the territory just as an AI when you attempt to conquer your current tier or the OS tier?

#

Being able to slot gear and spells on them doesn't necessarily mean you can manually control them in fights when conquering.

#

I'm not in the patreon beta though, so I may be very wrong on that possibility if anyone wants to confirm otherwise lol

frail stirrup
#

We could avoid using othersouls if tiers were exclusive to players of that tier. It'd be more fun to have alts of different levels.

stiff flame
#

Alts don't benefit your main for rewards though. No one is stopping anyone from making an alt of that tier if their desire is to be that dominant in it. I'd personally get zero enjoyment of being forced to have an alt of that tier to participate. That's way too much time investment at this point lol. Being able to just swap to that tier character to participate would be more preferable, but gotta give an advantage to actual players of that tier hence the othersouls

odd barn
#

did anyone ask if there are changes to the achievements\titles?

#

like after patch will 5k areas taken and explored still be a thing?

green pollen
#

That's a good question, actually... hm

#

And what of amities that give you bonus stats to territory control?
I assume since there's the option to stay with the old system both of these things will remain

#

Maybe selecting New rather than Old or Legacy will overwrite the achievement. Maybe the titles will remain as a testament to what you did before the new system

merry chasm
#

I imagine at the very least earned titles will remain, as the live pvp titles did even after the removal of the mechanic

spark plover
#

Aren't those still earnable by getting through the coliseums?

merry chasm
#

There is a coliseum specific title, Champion. There was also a live pvp title, Arch-Gladiator

opaque wren
#

How do you get OS? Does it take Orns?

tender bramble
stable elbow
ashen iris
#

They cost the in-game equivalent of a little dance

night adder
#

Is it ok if that dance is the same two step with a little twist?

stable elbow
lean cosmos
#

I'm finally catching up on the past few days. I'm not too sure people realize how overwhelmingly squishy the T9/7 OS is, at least so far. Celestials + godforged gear probably won't do any tipping of scales.

eternal comet
#

Yea, I’m waiting to test them out in an open beta but the hp values shared are a bit disheartening

harsh gust
#

Any news?

odd barn
#

I like 300 areas from 5k, would be nice if I can finish just incase

signal arrow
#

Severe lack of hype in here. Another one for the dream list then - action replays. Let me see who has been challenging me and let me laugh at their feeble attempts to unthrone the king

#

Or it would be nice to at least know people are challenging, at the very least. Doesn't need to be a notification, even a log of attempts in the messages tab would be cool.

fiery crystal
#

Should be possible but a concerted effort from a t7 should be able to take out even a kitted os

lean cosmos
signal arrow
#

Maybe they'll tweak the HP values, but I'd much rather err on the side of the low level players personally. Because, if that T9 has taken out your T9 othersoul ... well, if there isn't a T5 around to contest that tier then you've got a straight up proxy war between the T9's T5 and your T5 othersouls. And that's a 'fair' contest.

#

And then an actual T5 player comes along, and you all start boosting the gear on your T3 othersouls until he's graduated to the T7 war

ashen iris
#

T3 and T5 seem decently on par, T7 and T9 seem a little underwhelming

green pollen
#

Too lazy to scroll back and see who it was, but whoever recommended me to do boss gauntlets to increase my regional rank... it's working. Already up several ranks with just 3-5 of them a day

upper cove
#

Let’s gooo!!!!! 🔥 🔥. Do we have an exact date for this big patch?

cobalt siren
opaque wren
#

Kevo posted a little video with a sneak peek

harsh gust
#

I need a tldr cuz I am at work

opaque wren
#

Top crown decides the reward for the settlement

lofty thunder
cobalt siren
lavish knoll
#

I would think August is the alpha/beta and September it the release

#

It's probably not too far away from public beta

ashen iris
signal arrow
harsh gust
signal arrow
ashen iris
signal arrow
#

Yeah I was going to say, that unlisted video was visible 🤫

ashen iris
#

It was mainly made prior to a pre-given time we were allowed to post Conqtent, so I've no problems with that

signal arrow
#

Fair enough. Anyway, looking good and I'm intrigued by the Ramparts. And the 20 minute timestamp that says beta today.

blissful cairn
#

The Ornation podcast with Dangy talking about the guild has been very informative as well...

candid bobcat
#

Oh a 2 hour cooldown would be interesting.

#

Rewards may be great for being further away from your origin town. Nice

#

I wonder with the ability to disable ascension levels, how many high ascension players will switch?

#

I wish that showdown video showed some other souls fights.

opaque wren
eternal comet
pastel mauve
#

Has it been publicized if the influence and ghosting mechanics are carrying over to conqueror's?

opaque wren
#

Will old style areas still generate after this update ?

signal arrow
#

With how everything seems geared around settlements changing hands much more frequently rather than holding thousands at once (supressing ascenion levels, stat decay, npc attacks) I'd be kind of surprised if influence is still a thing

frigid imp
#

Any more details on the "NPCs take settlements" that can be shared? Is it some chance each day? by time? when your othersouls weaken?

blissful cairn
#

Dangy mentioned some of it in the Ornation podcast, saying if they were unvisited for long enough NPCs would attack land, and they do seem to decay HP from what we hear, so doing upkeep and using the buffs properly will be important to maintaining a large amount of crowns

brisk vector
#

Thanks @ashen iris for the content you posted today, both the competition and the feature detail video

candid bobcat
brisk vector
#

if good gear and upkeep is enough then that is great

lean cosmos
lean cosmos
green pollen
#

I disagree. So many people have been asking for ALs to either be removed from PvP or be adjusted in some manner, like a hard cap on how high it can go. Low AL players who struggle to survive people far surpassed where they are finally have an equalizer they can use, and an optional one at that. It has a cost as well, meaning if it gets used often then the person using it is losing out on a lot of Proofs just to gain the crown. The high AL player could likely just as easily take it back as well

#

Any PvP setting worth being considered competitive would put players on a similar level playing field. I know Orna doesn't quite work like that, but that doesn't change my stance on the matter

eternal comet
#

Ill never get the argument that players who put in the time to grind 80 ALs should be on the same level as players with 0 ALs. People who grind more should be stronger in PvP, that’s how every game works.

For 0 AL PvP, we already have BoF. What we need is to expand on it to make 0 AL PvP attractive (better currency exchange rates, seasons with different rules, etc)

jaunty remnant
#

In defense of the AL0 usable item:

Nobody's gonna spam those out on a hundred+ settlements. It's gonna be used for very specific settlement hunts, like an AL20 newbie that really wants the settlement near his home or work and needs to budge an AL100+ long-timer.

That being said, I agree with the sentiment that we already have AL0 pvp in BoF -- just do it there.

Compromise thought: what about if it capped ALs at something reasonable but >0? Like if it rounds down participant ALs to some value like 20 or 50 ||like what AL should've been capped at to begin with🙃||.

eternal comet
#

Why wouldn’t someone use it to spam out a hundred settlements though? If you’re visiting the region of some of the top competitive LB guys they probably control most of it and a newbie would have all incentive to use it there.

Adding to the fact that 0 AL PvP without BoF rules and with the attacker always having the first turn should pretty much always be a win for the attacker. Most times you won’t know the player who’s attacking you (and, if you do, they just need to turn on privacy mode), so you can’t even strategize around them without knowing their class.

Regarding the compromise suggestion: at that point, aren’t people just being disincentivized from ascending? ALs have diminishing returns in PvE (after a certain level you can already accomplish pretty much anything), so PvP is where you’re getting the most benefit from that grind

plain shale
#

Won't you just one shot every settlement for half an hour?

eternal comet
#

You will. It’s pretty much a “whoever was here last gets the settlement” button

jaunty remnant
#

It could stand to be lower than a half-hour duration.

I think that there's likely not enough outrage possible to prevent NF from adding the item; there's going to be some way for lowALs to easily attack highALs.
Given that, what kinds of restrictions and limitations make the item more acceptable?

eternal comet
#

Higher cost (it seems to be relatively cheap at 15 proofs), and shorter duration (15min?) while keeping the cooldown so it can’t be used to spam large areas are the first that come to mind.

If they’re adamant on having the item, it should be a last resort option, not something players can spam every time they go out

lofty thunder
#

If it is really about booting the high AL player who took an important PoI from you, make it last one fight, reduce the cost, and change the CD to 1hour

honest tusk
#

If you want to boot out the AL100+ near your home or work, you'd usually have the advantage for repeated attacks every hour. In which case, it will be usually possible to catch them "with their pants down" when they're amity hunting, or on a different class, or something

lofty thunder
#

Hmm, most player have a dedicated PvP setup, so no "pants down" ^^

#

And yeah, you can wait for him to switch to a VD class for exemple... it could take a while

honest tusk
#

by "pants down" I usually mean a non-beo main switching to beo for amity hunting. I don't think that anyone would have 100+ ALs on a class they use only for amity hunting 😆

#

they also sacrifice a pet slot for extra rewards, so no Arch-Armor stalling then

#

(100% amity rewards + BB1 amity is a lie and doesn't exist)

eternal comet
honest tusk
#

1 is enough, BB1 doesn't stack

#

100% memory + BB1 and 100% and... dunno, 5% VD? 40% crit? starting ward turns maybe?

earnest finch
#

just made two types of settlements. some include AL, some not

opaque wren
final depot
#

As much as I love Orna, its combat system is not complicated enough to make fair battles engaging. And if it's not about skill, then it's about time spent. We want to get stronger than neighbors, thus infinitely farm for better gear, god amities and higher ascensions. If you take that away, what's even left? 🤷

opaque wren
#

One point of contention is that old territory were held forever by some strong players.

A newbie rolls into your game and see some sweaty holding everything with no hope of beating him without dumping 1000+ hours into the game.

Is that encouraging ? Fun? Inclusive ?

Especially from a new player stand point. Do they want to invest 1000+ hours into a new game?

If they do, and invest 1000+ hours to take that area. Discover then (or hopefully sooner) that the 3 orns a week for that spot wasn't worth their time or effort. Even being told on discord and other socials that area control amounts to nothing and provides little benefit.

#

This new system is trying to correct the aged and un rewarding area control of Orna 1.0

final depot
#

Sounds encouraging to me tbh, some goal to keep improving for. Same way they cannot beat a-morri or whatever

honest tusk
#

Beating the sweaty out of my town was my main motivation and a major breaking point too

opaque wren
#

It was like that for me too, but kids aren't built the same anymore.

still furnace
#

its a grind to win game, that itself somehow translates to (efficient) time spent to me

opaque wren
#

These are PokemonGO gyms.

They don't want people holding them for long periods.

There's Stat diminished over time.

Whether they use this AL blocker or not, you're going to eventually lose settlements (NPC takeovers)

#

Hold it for 12 hours before your guy is weak from hunger and lack of entertainment. Sitting in a tent all day doing nothing is very boring and very exhausting.

eternal comet
#

There are ways to combat diminishing stats from what has been posted

eternal comet
signal arrow
#

It's the Conqueror's Guild, not the landlords guild

eternal comet
#

Are you really a conqueror if you killed your opponent by turning of their stats instead of facing them one on one?

signal arrow
#

That wasn't aimed at you in particular by the way, I just liked the comparison. It's about conquering, not holding

#

Which is a fairly dramatic reframe of the original system

eternal comet
#

I get that, I don’t take any points made personally 😅 Just think there should be some challenge in PvP. If everyone can kill everyone, where’s the fun in the system?

signal arrow
#

I actually quite like the idea of ramparts giving periods of vulnerability. Maybe someone goes on holiday for a week and oops now their territories are up for grabs because they didn't maintain them

eternal comet
#

Vulnerability because you’re not taking care of your territories makes perfect sense to me. A 30min buff that takes a bunch of your stats away for a low cost is more problematic imo

opaque wren
#

As an AL80 you should likely have access to better gear than a newer player.

Make something tanky or directly to counter them.

rough jewel
opaque wren
#

If there was a way to strip both combatants naked

#

No gear AL or skills, just sweaty balls fists flying everywhere

noble apex
#

I would prefer if the earlier crowns were expanded and the 4th crown was just unascended t10/11 and keep the integrity of the 5th crown. I think that version of the 4th crown would get a lot more mileage than some of the earlier crowns considering how fast people will level out of them.

Otherwise, I think the item should have increased cost, reduced effect (removes half of AL?), or both. Additionally, if there are proactive options to weaken your opponent, I don't see why decay also has to exist.

tender bramble
#

Finally back from holidays so I can read it whole again properly.

And sadly, my disappointment continue.

Yes, I took all those areas in current system and they generate close to nothing. But while I mainly wanted to play the GPS game and take territories, I also hoped that these territories would one day generate more profit and have better purpose - aka will be upgraded, not just for show off old system.

My feeling was that someday all the territories I took would be meaningful (in this case they would be transferred to the new system, even if I only had control of a "crown" of my tier) and not a useless waste.

There is a little reason to stay in legacy, as trying to hunt through two systems will be challenging and the old system won't give anything. So it means to start from point zero with release. If even start. 😢

(so far I only talked with handful of ppl who own similar amount of territories as I do and they feel the same)

eternal comet
#

At 0 AL no amount of gear is going to save you from one shot builds, especially when the attacker always goes first. Unless we’re proposing everyone play pet protect+parapet builds, but I’d rather have some variety

eternal comet
honest tusk
#

You aren't realistically zeroing Rend/Epee either.

noble apex
winter cedar
past galleon
#

My setup for BoF is wildly different from my main PvP. Now I will never know what setup I want to have if the goal is to retain control of a settlement. But from what I read above, that's not the goal. The goal is to take easy, lose easy. "It's the conquerors guild, not the landlords guild". So if I'm frowned upon for maintaining my settlements, what is the point? What is the drive to go conquer anything that is not on my regular route? What is the drive to conquer at all if it's just a Poke Gym, three rounds and you're out.

What is sad is that ascensions have become vilified. If you have more than 20 ALs you are the problem. How do we remove the problem? Systematically remove ascensions meaning anything from the game. I bet kingdom wars are next.

lofty thunder
#

just to add my thoughts too as AL100, i agree it is a little harsh to reduce our AL to 0 for an extended period of time... I mean, we worked hard to get those AL, it is not like if we paid for them or something, for me it is almost 3 Years of grind, playing the game more than 4h per days on average.
So now if everytime we must "give a chance to the others" ,because "it is not fair", by removing our AL... well it is not fair either.
Kinda agree with @past galleon above too, High AL players are the endgame who invested a shitton of time and brain into this game, they should not be vilified because we're stronger than AL0...

If you take a fight against mike Tyson, you shouldnt expect him to tie his hands and wear a blinder eh? (and i would still loose ) x)

signal arrow
#

I'd say it's the exploration system that rewards exploration, but then we don't know what that actually looks like in the new world. It's still all early days and speculative based off a couple of screenshot, maybe it's easier to keep territories than we currently think.

I do have some sympathy for the guys who are currently holding 50k territories and getting a hard reset in the switchover. In raw, cynical terms though games tend to have a small hardcore base and a massive amount of player turnover outside of that. I wonder if it makes sense financially to irritate some of the older players if ten 'average' players stick around longer and maybe consider buying something.

alpine condor
# tender bramble Finally back from holidays so I can read it whole again properly. And sadly, my...

I definitely explored a few ways to migrate the old to the new, but ultimately it just wasn’t feasible. You’d either be losing a ton of reputation or in unfavourable deadlocks with others when the locations don’t match settlement vs area

You also have the choice of no choice, btw. You can stay in just the current area control

If a few players feel this is the deal breaker for them, I can understand. But we can’t let that stop us from bringing an objectively better system to the game

tender bramble
#

Even if I get 1/5 (or less) of areas turned into settlements, it is better than nothing.

mossy oasis
#

I don't see why the old system can't be left alone and just add settlements and conquerors guild in addition to the old system and keep everyone happy

alpine condor
#

(minus the old income)

mossy oasis
#

The whole opt-out of the old system makes it seem like it will eventually be abandoned completely

lofty thunder
#

i'll never quit capturing territory, even after conqueror guild

#

It is a nice way to say to others "i was here" and to kindly troll some friends around

alpine condor
#

Yup, and I don’t see a need to take that away

tender bramble
lofty thunder
#

they'll not^^

#

so for me the new system is win-win. I guess you're mainly worried about the competive rank maybe @tender bramble ? Because i cant imagine you worried by the lost of the income

alpine condor
noble apex
#

Also on the 'i was here' point, I'm not too keen on the idea of NPC's taking my settlements. A lot of the fun is holding far out areas and seeing when a real player rises to challenge it. Ideally we wouldn't lose our territory to NPC's. If it's left in, I think the implementation matters. If the conqueror npc is actually simulating combat with our defense in some way, that's better than X% chance to lose a territory.

lofty thunder
#

yeah, the "i was here" kinda desapear with this "feature"

alpine condor
noble apex
#

Very happy to hear that!

alpine condor
#

I can’t express how much reading and feedback went into this one

tender bramble
#

No, I'm not worried about income. I would like to have new income from my previous work.

Also I'm in touch with majority of czech players and it is always nice to see new ppl pop up here and there and take my territories or be like "oh you were here". And all those new ppl won't be in old system (or even some low AL 250). They will all switch to new system leaving only - idk... 1/10 or even less of "big guys" around.

eternal comet
#

What’s the studio’s opinion regarding the whole “disabling AL” feature? I feel like that’s the biggest pain point for me atm, I’m very hyped for the rest of the system in general

lean cosmos
mossy oasis
#

I do find it fun to get the occasional message and ally request from a random newer player saying something like "you own my entire area, I finally got strong enough to take a territory from you after months of grinding"

tender bramble
lean cosmos
#

The cool thing is, that's still going to happen and the player will still be able to take settlements. If you see someone in your tier you can't defeat, you grind to get better while taking crowns of a lower tier. That includes players coming into the top crown.

lean cosmos
lean cosmos
eternal comet
past galleon
past galleon
tender bramble
blissful cairn
#

You know... I get people having the apprehension about the AL equalizer, but defenders will still have the advantage from Crownguards, and without knowing the % stat boosts from Crownguards it's hard to know... With say 100AL and the best crownguard active it could be that scaling for certain builds was just too high

lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

I mean, it seems there are different tiers of crownguard... So it's hard to know, honestly the beta will tell us a lot, Odie mentioning that farther away territories won't be lost to NPCs is great news and will make it still worth engaging with when on a long trip

lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

And it being mentioned that land that changes hands often may pay out better is incentive for people in large cities who often couldn't hold large amounts for any length of time anyway

eternal comet
#

Also, wasn’t max influence just 100% of your stats, while anything under that was a nerf? Or is there a stat boost associated with it?

lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

Well, assuming how a new system works based on the old one hasn't been very accurate for the new guild so far... But say we make the opposite assumption, having all the Crownguards on is a 50AL equivalent.. suddenly the idea of an equalizer doesn't seem so demotivating... Because defense would still have an advantage...

eternal comet
lean cosmos
alpine condor
#

Using this Rampart also takes away your ability to use others - thus putting your own Settlements at risk

blissful cairn
#

Ahh it's a shared cool down? That's interesting then imo

eternal comet
alpine condor
alpine condor
lean cosmos
lean cosmos
noble apex
#

Can we use these proofs to buy materials like other guilds? If there was a tradeoff for character growth I think that makes sense, provided the price was right on both ends.

lean cosmos
alpine condor
blissful cairn
#

Maybe it's just me, but normally it's interesting to look at mechanics for alphas and initial info, but any details in numbers, costs, and specifics always seem to get adjusted for live release... It's too early for people to be saying this is gonna make them quit... Unless they were gonna anyways...

alpine condor
lean cosmos
lean cosmos
eternal comet
lean cosmos
eternal comet
#

And is it an all-or-nothing feature? As in, you either pay the full cost and maintain everything or you don’t get to do maintena on any?

brisk vector
blissful cairn
#

Honestly seeing that this is promoting a significantly higher level of dynamic gameplay where there is action reaction type mechanics and interplay built into the guild, and having crowns switch often leading to higher rewards, I'm excited to see it be more community involved based on its design

lean cosmos
# blissful cairn Maybe it's just me, but normally it's interesting to look at mechanics for alpha...

It's a valid concern. As it stands now, I enjoy playing far away from home because I know I'm strong enough to hold most for a while, and keep a few hard-to-reach ones forever. Being concerned that a tool will be easily available to any player that wants easy offense in the top crown, tip the scales, and make players not want to engage with settlements far from home because they're extremely likely to lose them is a very valid, regardless of whether it makes someone quit or not.

eternal comet
brisk vector
lean cosmos
blissful cairn
lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

True, but that's where Crownguards potentially make up all the difference you'd need to hold them

eternal comet
brisk vector
brisk vector
lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

Actually, the AL disabling would make seal clubbing happy wouldn't it? And if as Odie said the cost is going to be prohibitive, isn't that a good balance?

brisk vector
#

nothing wrong with that, but I never heard of any dev catering only to their loud turbo elite playerbase

lean cosmos
#

Hearing that it will not be able to be used frequently is very encouraging, though!

alpine condor
brisk vector
lean cosmos
lofty thunder
brisk vector
blissful cairn
#

Honestly, I had apprehensions, but most of them have been quelled, at this point I'm just excited to see the Beta

brisk vector
lean cosmos
alpine condor
blissful cairn
#

So we should all be excited by Kevin the fresh T10

alpine condor
#

competition is nothing to be afraid of 🙂

brisk vector
#

I am now AL 27, not that high mind you, but I never felt entiteled to any of my pvp spots

eternal comet
lean cosmos
brisk vector
#

I feel this is blade of Finesse all over again

lean cosmos
eternal comet
brisk vector
eternal comet
#

I was under the impression that keeping territories “active” by visiting them wouldn’t be necessary in the new system

brisk vector
alpine condor
blissful cairn
#

Does the Rock Paper Scissors make the settlement active?

alpine condor
alpine condor
eternal comet
#

Uh

#

Im not sure I enjoy that mechanic but I guess we’ll first have to test the numbers out

brisk vector
# alpine condor

oh, so while they count for reputation, me (who lives on the west coast), wont benefit from taking settlements in the east coast while visiting relatives?

blissful cairn
#

Farther away is less valuable?

noble apex
#

Does "contesting" in this case necessarily mean turnover? Or does an attacked but defended far territory provide those rewards?

lean cosmos
# alpine condor

I had thought that just meant that the rewards are higher if frequently challenged.

alpine condor
brisk vector
alpine condor
brisk vector
#

they sit unseen by me or any players?

eternal comet
brisk vector
#

seems like that is what is implied

alpine condor
#

what we're trying to solve here is Kevin taking 1000 settlements in a remote desert and having infinite rewards forever

lean cosmos
eternal comet
#

Okay, that makes perfect sense, I thought turnover would be necessary

alpine condor
#

that darn kevin

lofty thunder
#

Kevin did go to the desert and played the game there at the cost of a lot of body-water, kevin should be rewarded for this

brisk vector
#

Kevin uses the Carl skin for sure

alpine condor
#

and they will for a while, but not forever

blissful cairn
lean cosmos
blissful cairn
#

Because then NPCs would contest to keep the rewards on

lofty thunder
#

no, Odie said NPC would contest settlements that are around OT

brisk vector
#

Kevin, but instead of missles it's phones

maxresdefault.png
lean cosmos
lofty thunder
#

So in the end, if Kevin doesnt visit again that pile of sand deep in the desert, he'll earn 0 from it ?

blissful cairn
worthy bloom
#

Increased activity provides increased rewards you say? And I can have as many accounts as I want? 🤔

brisk vector
#

make 40 alts in the deserts so their OT makes the npc contest the deser mightiest_mimic (only if the presence of an OT makes npc that contest any fortress)

brisk vector
blissful cairn
worthy bloom
#

How often can I do it? And how much is the gain? Just considering potential edge-case abuse as a CS vet 😅

blissful cairn
#

And Odie said farther from your OT does not spawn NPC fights

brisk vector
lean cosmos
lofty thunder
#

any idea of when the public beta will hit? To many question.

blissful cairn
#

Mind you we are nitpicking his words a bit for all the info we can get and at a certain point that may be unreliable if we overanalyze

brisk vector
#

Can't wait for Exp-Less to claim all the world's t3 crowns

keen wind
#

What’s the radius from your OT before NPCs start attacking your settlements?

lofty thunder
#

hidden info, we'll have to wait for OL to solve this mimic

lean cosmos
gentle bison
#

[Correction: All my town's crowns. I don't travel at all]

I feel like I'd rather just wait for the Open Beta than ask any questions or theorize on anything. By then, more stuff will make sense, and numbers can always be adjusted, within reason.

brisk vector
lean cosmos
#

I wouldn't, but I would like it

brisk vector
#

Make it a new coffee on the store "troll a settlement with an NPC copy of a player" (please don't)

blissful cairn
#

To be fair I found a land owned by EXP-Less a couple months back, it was fun

rough jewel
#

/suggest Hire a Player as an Othersoul. Crowns held by the hire are split between the Employer and the Employee

#

||(mimic)||

blissful cairn
#

That would promote alting.... Interesting

brisk vector
blissful cairn
#

Lol

rough jewel
brisk vector
#

did not want to create space between your comment and your mimic

rough jewel
#

In any case I'm glad Odie came in and cleared some things up

lofty thunder
rough jewel
#

Furthermore keep in mind that those who are paying to nullify ascensions are, well, paying for it.

blissful cairn
#

Not if you could only hire lower tier players... Still pyramid schemes bad

rough jewel
#

Proofs aren't free, and they're missing out on other purchases by doing that

#

Currently you gain 1 proof per successful fight

blissful cairn
#

This would be getting close to adding a Mentor/Tutor system to the game like some old MMOs... LOL

rough jewel
lofty thunder
#

considering the resulting passive income

brisk vector
rough jewel
#

Yeah but if it costs 150 proofs instead of 15, suddenly it's not that beneficial

lofty thunder
#

Agree

rough jewel
#

Costs aren't final

#

So it's a bit nonsensical to be hung up over those at this stage

blissful cairn
#

To be fair with how much there is to learn in the game an Opt in Mentor/Tutor system would be an interesting idea... But probably nonviable and exploitable....

brisk vector
#

make that buff expire on time OR number of fights, suddently, it either last the duration or it ends after a number of fights on the highway

eternal comet
brisk vector
#

i think it has been said 100+ times that costs were not final

stable elbow
#

We have all been told countless times during other betas and the like that costs are definitely reduced or not set

lofty thunder
stable elbow
#

Towers beta its only 10 skyshards to get a celestial

eternal comet
#

That doesn’t make the discussion around the item nonsensical/useless

brisk vector
stable elbow
#

They still are in the beta at 10

eternal comet
#

If anything, it helps devs adjust the final cost

stable elbow
#

Being worried about cost totally makes sense, being worried its only 15 of a currency we aren't fully sure how much we can earn in an hour is the hard part

#

This isn't even in open beta yet where that information would be most helfpul

eternal comet
#

When other items were shown at 50 proofs, at least the comparison is viable

stable elbow
#

I actually asked if they would reduce it to make it easier to test b/c some of the things seemed to have scaled to +1 your current stash for awhile

blissful cairn
#

Having the AL item scale with owned crowns makes sense to, so that people relying on it can't abuse it too far. And that seems to be what we were hearing... That the ramparts costs scale with crowns

inner harness
# alpine condor

What the current range from our OT for them to remain constantly active?

blissful cairn
#

It allows a lower AL player in a town of High AL players to participate but definitely not dominate, still get reward out of the system and it's all effort related

#

That's a good thing for long term health of the game imo

lofty thunder
#

buuut that's another subject

blissful cairn
#

Umm... Not really, you can 1 shot them easy and use manticore eyes... But alright

tawny sparrow
#

-suggest implement bof house rules onto material equalization mimic

stable elbow
#

oh god

gilded elk
#

It sounds like from an above discussion you will not get rewards from “far away” or “uncontested areas”. I realize that there is abuse (1000 areas owned in a waste land) but I Personally find it fun to control areas on a hike/trip and I am worried that there wouldn’t be a point. Am I understanding that mechanic right?

stable elbow
rough jewel
stable elbow
rough jewel
harsh gust
lofty thunder
#

but anyway, considering actual state of rewards from territory capture, it wouldnt change much stuff i suppose

#

as long as we keep the settlement under out controle, for the "i was here" fun

gilded elk
harsh gust
#

I will have to make alliances with people around me lol

lofty thunder
#

yeah that might become a thing...

#

I'll lost a lot of friend around i suppose mimic

stable elbow
#

So I get a little fuzzy on this area - I believe any person going into view "activates" it but it may require some type of interaction? Some of the more active territory types may be able to explain that

jaunty remnant
# eternal comet Man, do you know how insulting it is to have a mod call discussion points nonsen...

I don't agree with 'nonsensical', but it's certainly in beta, in dev right now.

It's why I was asking what kinds of costs or restrictions make sense. We don't know what proof income is like, but we can talk about it in real terms.

e.g. players should be able to buy one 30 minute territory shopping spree a day? Or once a week? Or every day for 5 minutes (basically targeting a settlement)? Or that the benefit isn't AL0 but some other lowering?

blissful cairn
#

Contesting also causes activation, and NPCs can contest the areas around your OT so there is a baseline at least

lavish knoll
#

(Quite the opposite, given that some feedback I've given is how expensive certain things are given proof acquisition abilities.)

harsh gust
#

It would be cool if some "Raiders" (basically NPCs) would attack your settlement once in a while
They would give rewards if you defeat them and if you don't take care of that settlement they would just take it. It would resolve the problem of Kevin having 1000 settlements in the middle of nowhere

tawny sparrow
harsh gust
#

Ayyyy

#

Actually big

lofty thunder
#

Not for kevin's 1000 settlement in the desert

harsh gust
#

Oh

#

I have a proposal

lofty thunder
#

#1271132843094839408 message

harsh gust
#

If they pay my flight there, I will take care of those 1000 settlements from Kevin

lean cosmos
# rough jewel Yeah but if it costs 150 proofs instead of 15, suddenly it's not that beneficial

This is where it wouldn't be a problem if it's one or two players trying to take them back, but when it's a lot of players from many, many places finally getting the swing of the guild, communicating with each other, telling each other that the only thing they have to do to kick someone out of the top crown (emphasis on top because they can get that player out of the lower tiers without as much effort) is save up to buy an item a few times ... suddenly that 150 cost doesn't look so high.
It will make settlement-taking while traveling less worthwhile. I get how it could be less unfair with a very high cost, but it doesn't make sense to me when the earlier tiers are very available while they get stronger.

lean cosmos
#

One very encouraging thing I see, though, is that apparently the cost and trade-off will be large enough to prevent it from being used in areas that are routinely contested between the user and significantly stronger players.

noble apex
#

Id honestly prefer specific debuffs a la kingdom hexes that lend to more strategic choices that a full AL reduction. One could even reduce AL levels by x, y, z with scaling cost.

stable elbow
#

So I am going to be honest I don't do podcasts and I feel like there has been a lot of information provided in there that has not been made available through the other channels. Can someone do a like a breakdown of all the information. I have seen several items brought up here that was mentioned in that but not in any of the normal channels. I can barely keep up with Youtube, Twitter, X, NF Blog, and 3 NF Discords so I don't really see doing the podcast thing. Not that it's not a great resource for those who enjoy them.

noble apex
stable elbow
#

Of course it could just be the same thing being metioned 😄 #1271132843094839408 message #1271132843094839408 message
#1271132843094839408 message

fiery crystal
#

I don't know about you guys, but there are some 100AL+ players that I don't even bother fighting because they just 0 me out every time. If you are so high in AL that nobody in the area bothers to fight you it seems like your rewards would slowly go to 0, effectively not mattering even if you have lots of territories.

But if defense = contest like Odie says and refreshes your rewards, I think you would be happy to see a lower AL player attempt to contest the territories

#

So the AL equalizing feature is probably a net positive for rewards if you are a very strong player, as your gear and build would probably carry you most of the time even without ALs against lower geared players

lean cosmos
#

Gear also simply will not protect you in that situation. It will help or delay the inevitable, but it is much easier to catch up via offense than it is to outclass via defense, especially when the ALs are even.

#

With ascension levels that high, it does take longer than usual to catch up via offense. However, their gear will not help them as much as you think it will.

blissful cairn
#

It seems like the optimal play in this new system would be to secure your OT radius worth of settlements because they will be contested by NPCs and stay active for rewards, and to try to hit other areas that are regularly contested, because low activity areas that are far away will have diminishing returns on reward, whereas closer active land is a huge benefit

ashen iris
#

I think it's only fitting that we move into a new LIVE beta discussion: #1275487953480712324

blissful cairn
#

Which should drive more community activity into larger towns/cities... More interaction is likely healthy for the game

ashen iris
#

will be closing this thread soon because of that, do get your final thoughts out

#

will leave it open for another like... 45 minutes?

lean cosmos
#

This has been lovely, thank you! Nothing in mind yet.

green pollen
#

Now that I’m awake and have caught up on everything, I can say with confidence my precious stance yesterday remains unchanged and I’m happy with the things I’ve seen confirmed here.
As Odie said… competition is a good thing

#

(I also love the term Conquerer vs Landlord XD)

lean cosmos
#

Oh boy Wrecked is here

stiff flame
#

Haven't read everything and apparently no need to, but an item to zero out ALs is not needed when GSH exists lol. They take easy from high AL players all the time. Almost very high AL player I've talked to still has issues with GS. Is this item not going to prove even more OP for them to snatch crownships insanely fast?

Screenshot_20240820_102927_Orna.jpg Screenshot_20240820_101833_Orna.jpg
#

Those time stamps don't show much of a struggle for a low AL player taking from a 136 AL player

blissful cairn
#

But land changing hands often is actually good in the new system

green pollen
#

Is this implying that because the balance of a single class is out of whack, a potentially beneficial item for people that don’t meta the one class for control shouldn’t exist?

ashen iris
#

Summoner PVP is definitely a sore spot - arguably overpowered on offense, not as much on defense

lean cosmos
blissful cairn
ashen iris
#

was in content I made about it

stiff flame
#

Why should al investment be removed for the no AL players lol

lean cosmos
green pollen
ashen iris
#

this all sounds like lovely points and reason for Ascension 2.0

blissful cairn
stiff flame
lean cosmos
stiff flame
#

Also my AL is invested in one class

ashen iris
#

duels don't change hands of territory, ya

stiff flame
#

A new t10 has no AL in anything or very little

signal arrow
blissful cairn
blissful cairn
ashen iris
#

As in changing the amount of rewards via it being "contested"? Yeah, PvP fights only

lean cosmos
green pollen
signal arrow
#

Nah, as in someone talking earlier about rewards being disabled entirely if it wasn't 'contested', not the 2x bump in rewards for being highly contested

ashen iris
#

and that's what the beta's for

#

if you want numbers to be balanced, test test test test

blissful cairn
#

Which means more activity is better for everyone, so allowing a way for lower AL players to try at least means they will do so more often and that drives better rewards for all players

lean cosmos
sturdy raven
#

What even is the point in ascension then? Horrible change. Maybe I should go find a game that respects my time

Screenshot_20240820-093025.jpg
ashen iris
signal arrow
#

Will we actually be able to see the reward breakdown and settlement attack history to work it out ourselves though.

ashen iris
#

debate for that is here, and keep in mind that that's a beta change - not final

lean cosmos
alpine condor
green pollen
#

Seeing that ALs are disabled in BoF, can be negated with an item in Conquerer fights, and now may potentially be disabled in kingdom wars as well, is that not directly implying that maybe having an uncapped power sink advantage is perhaps a bad thing in a competitive setting? (As in, something that’s been echoed for years now?)

blissful cairn
#

Beta is a way to test things and see how the community reacts, not a final build

green pollen
lean cosmos
blissful cairn
green pollen
#

It’ll be interesting to see where AL 2.0 takes things as well

#

My stance on ALs in PvP would be far different if there was actually a skill component to things. As Sora said, unless your open class changes then there’s nothing really to it