Reworked Gods Classline

[finite berry]

The usability just doesnt move the needle for how confusing the mechanic might be for a new player

[stoic harness]

idk what would be good. we need a longsword or dual blades main

[finite berry]

Like I can see how apex helps t8-t10 but why use it if its too difficult to understand the benefits when you can just run beo and send it

And it doesnt really do much for late t10 (which is fine!)

[stoic harness]

someone used to charging a meter to play

[hollow reef]

personally, i'm not sure new players (t8) would find it confusing. limit breaks are an RPG staple

[finite berry]

Its just more to think about than the rest of the game, at a point in the game where a lot of players struggle to get over the exp hurdle of t8-t10 to begin with

[stoic harness]

/me goes back to beta to charge Sorrow

[finite berry]

Most people commenting in this thread are smart, experienced players. Im just giving lower mid tiers the benefit of the doubt here

I've recently played 2 new chars to t8/t9 and can see issues. Theres so much info in this game. Adding more to the web just increases the barrier for those new players getting thru the t1-t10 tutorial

I love the insanity of the hidden mechanics and info, again, just giving those who dont the benefit of the doubt

Apex is just maybe a tad too complicated and clunky for a t8/t9 /early t10

But just an opinion

[pallid stump]

We just recently saw a T11 playing without discord asking what CS was so I see what you're talking about.

[finite berry]

Exactly

I try to put myself in others shoes here as best I can. Might be off on this one idk. Just an opinion

And not sure what can really be done to apex to make it better

[pallid stump]

But I don't think the the meter is that complicated. First thing you do when you get a new spell is add it the list and test it, now you've a bar that fills. It's not that complicated.

[mystic basin]

I think if lower players interact with it regularly, they will get the hang of it

thankfully, there are not many APEX skills at low lvl

so it should be simple enough for them to get it

[finite berry]

That's a fair assumption

[teal kestrel]

I can't imagine Apex being a perplexing mechanic to t8+ players. It seems self-explanatory, and should be a familiar mechanic to folks already versed in the RPG world. Besides, the t8/9 classes only get one Apex skill.

[pallid stump]

Maybe could change spells name to all start by APEX (apex manyalus, apex 2000 blades...)

[finite berry]

I think if that one apex skill actually made the t8/9 god classes one of the best raiders, i would agree

The small learning curve would.be worth the effort

More brainpower should be rewarded with more effective output

Not to mention the t8/t9 god classes cost more

Since raiding at those tiers is inherently rough

[pallid stump]

Deities have always been intellectuals anyways

[finite berry]

Or have a special skill tab for 'apex' abilities

[teal kestrel]

Making the god classes worthwhile investments at their respective tiers goes beyond an Apex skill. If that's the only thing that could potentially make them viable, that's a problem.

[mystic basin]

In all honestly, when i was a baby T9 i unlocked the god class and was such a dissapointment lol

[finite berry]

Again, its about the choice of class. If the god classes are not appealing, which likely is due to the 'class identity ' that currently is apex, then they wont play it

Which is why most people dont

At t9/t8

And apex should be an invitation to use these classes at those tiers

Otherwise people will steer clear

[pallid stump]

IMO at those tiers the price also play a role. It's hard to sell a classline that cost more but without being more powerful.

[teal kestrel]

It's always been hard for me to recommend the god classes as initial purchases and I don't think that'll change, unfortunately.

[finite berry]

Again, I've recently played t8 and t9 on two separate alts in HoA and Orna, speaking from very recent experience here

[teal kestrel]

But Apex itself isn't a particularly high-brain-power mechanic.

[finite berry]

They are dominantly summoner/bahamut tiers

Because they are easy to understand and very easy to play

[molten jetty]

I think nothing can compare to Avidity

[finite berry]

Its relative

Compare it to CD / BB / Avidity

Which requires more brainpower

And which is the least usable

• Apex -

Just saying

[pallid stump]

Can't follow you on that one. Current iteration charges so fast I can't see it being useless.

[teal kestrel]

The other passives are, well, literally passives and require no real understanding of the mechanics unless you want to build around them. Apex requires some engagement, but isn't difficult to understand.

[finite berry]

Relative

Among all of the other things in this game that you need to learn

At those tiers

[teal kestrel]

Is Apex charged? If yes, can use passive

not a difficult mechanic to learn.

[finite berry]

Relative

[molten jetty]

isn't the passive the Staying in Power?

[finite berry]

Idk how you cant agree with that word but ok

[teal kestrel]

Ugh.

[mystic basin]

Noticed it charges with Damage done, so i see it can be more used now

[finite berry]

That one is great. Easy to understand. Works well

[molten jetty]

I just think no matter how powerful all passives and mechanics are they will never be as strong as Avidity

[teal kestrel]

I'm divesting myself from this conversation. I wholly disagree and don't believe we're on to anything productive at this point.

[finite berry]

Same. It's fine to disagree. Just wanted to put the thoughts out there. Im sure plenty of other people disagree too.

[molten jetty]

I dont even understand what you guys arguing about

[prime mountain]

i think it's hard judging apex at the moment

[molten jetty]

you want brain dead style of play in deity?

[prime mountain]

s2 had the same argument about CD back when we were discussing beta stuff

but then odie released cd on items

boom

whole thing changed

[finite berry]

Relative ease of use of apex for the earlier tiers that can access it, and early t10s, for how much it actually helps

[finite berry]

Facts

[stoic harness]

ok so, the charging rate is a lot slower w T9 class

[molten jetty]

but I guess the brain dead part of Apex is that you have no weakness when its fully charged, good for endless

[prime mountain]

and since odie has stated that there was gonna be apex items, i'd love to see em

[stoic harness]

and the dmg is comparable to 2.5x sorrow or nekrosis

but for melee if I have a 40% crit rune, its very close to same

and I can only get elemental magic dmg

[pallid stump]

Imo that's a bit of a problem when you're on beta supposed to discuss a new passive but every flaws are supposedly fixed by another system you won't have on beta.

[molten jetty]

I think the apex items should be tested before apex itself is released as it might help with ideas on how to balance it

[prime mountain]

that's kinda what i'm saying

[stoic harness]

Id rather see the higher classes charge at the same rate but use the apex skills more better-ly

so the deity rhythm is familiar between each tier but the power steps up

maybe ara/ursa can charge faster & slower

idk

[finite berry]

It's just difficult to see a use for charging something where it's not needed. Even with items. Expressing concerns early is all I'm doing here. I don't see how items would help, but I'm still open to seeing these

[stoic harness]

but noble gaia after deity ursa was shocking 😂

[finite berry]

Thats why i reference early tiers, because stuff takes much longer there, and thats where i see apex actually useful outside of anguish and endless

[tepid walrus]

Biggest Yoshi

What apex gear bonuses would you rather like to see?

1⃣ Faster Apex Charge
2⃣ Unique apex abilities
3⃣ Additional Bonuses on 100% apex
4⃣ Boosts specifically for Staying Power

[thorn yacht]

Base deity with gqb has access to basically full buffs in 2 turns. Mag+, mag++, snotra, DC, tmag+++, zerk. Other classes need 3 turns to match base deity buff expediency.

Cele classes then drop back into the 3 turn setup, in which case they need a distinction from beoh, which on live servers they don't have. Even with lute tbh

[pallid stump]

I don't really want faster apex as it would end in slower apex without additional gear. I prefer apex being a thing all the time, just cooler with gear.

[finite berry]

@prime mountain i have a question for you - how much CD gear do you actually use?

Not including adorns

[prime mountain]

why wouldn't i be including adorns?

[finite berry]

Because those are obvious i know those are useful

Asking the question i dont know the answer to

[pallid stump]

Yoshi you forgot 5/more apex damage

[prime mountain]

yep true

[prime mountain]

you do

[finite berry]

Is the answer 0?

Or just labrys for horde?

[prime mountain]

celestials > cd weapons

[finite berry]

What about CD armor pieces

[stoic harness]

moving apex into gear can make it a lot more obscure or cause other issues

like blackened eyes being the de facto adorn

[prime mountain]

none

[stoic harness]

and massive fomo like charons tome

[pallid stump]

I'd like to see more of those event celestial augments. It nice to have more variety to go against the infamous trio.

[prime mountain]

because there are none

lol

[finite berry]

Right

Just adorns

[prime mountain]

I don't get your point tho, this is deity not gilgamesh

[finite berry]

Which i think -could-help apex. The tradeoffs are worth it. In terms of gear, you need pieces that give temp buffs/ boost stats etc. Its too high of a tradeoff to have actual apex gear for a class that can wear everything and has always identified as a mix n match gear class

Adorns seem like the only answer here

Thats my point

[prime mountain]

yeah i'm not sure what odie will present

[finite berry]

I dont see a world where i pick an apex piece over a piece that my pet auto casts GM

Thats all im saying

[prime mountain]

what type of already existing gear OR ADDORNS would you guys give potential apex passives to?

[pallid stump]

Would you equip an armor that give 1turn apex DC ? I think I would.

[finite berry]

Right, it would have to be pretty insane

[finite berry]

I would need to look at a list thats tough

Jewel of pale / morri eye / saturn eye come to mind

Gear wise idk theres so much currently useless gear that you could target

[pallid stump]

The one that give buff duration (mortar?)

[finite berry]

Does my point make sense at least?

[thorn yacht]

I just used neutra barrierlus and lost my turn to blight, but still lost the apex meter

Doesn't seem wai

[finite berry]

Aside from adorns, i just dont see how gear competes with alternatives and helps apex

Keeping an open mind of course

For same reasons with CD

[prime mountain]

i do get what you mean yes

don't think the concern is valid yet since we don't know what odie is cooking

[finite berry]

For sure agreed

Early concerns

[loud geyser]

I think Odie has some design decisions for APEX to be something for early deities as well (rather than waiting for última)

So there could be gear you wouldn’t pick cause it doesn’t compete with GMM

but something a newer player may find beneficial

[finite berry]

You can get the GM piece at t8

[loud geyser]

I guess that’s hard to compete so I’ll have to lean on dursa for that arguement

[finite berry]

Crazy item right?

[loud geyser]

I mean particularly because TMM exists

[finite berry]

I have a proposition -

For t8/t9-
Apex works OK
-maybe still charges a little too slow
-could use more abilities
-apex gear would definitely help here

Early T10
-apex only helps content that takes time to complete i.e. endless, long raids, somewhat horde dungeons
-apex gear helps while players gather the top gear

Late t10/t11
-apex only really helps endless and anguish. Which is kind of what endgame is centered around, so this makes sense. However:
What if one celestial class -starts- with full apex, and one with 0. So one class gets immediate benefits that are maybe arguably weaker, and one gets long term benefits that are stronger?

[craggy creek]

Just started to go back into the beta, looks like I have a lot of reading to catch up on... 🫤

[austere shuttle]

Totally agree 🤞

And about the staying power thing, as a Dara (and Hera Corvus before) who Always played on temp buff things, I can tell it's really fun for sure, but you can't compare it to GS/Beo abilities in endgames contents since anguish, and RS/Gilga since their rework IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I m not saying it's a bad passive, it will surely help and I ll take it, same for the lute, but it won't change some facts : endgame player deity will most likely still have CS as main build for tower, and it will still be slower than others, and it will most likely still be CS in high anguish for a long time (AL) so slower too, or a little better then before with mage's danse/sweep. So I m looking for those gear/addorns who could change those things, so again we ll see 🙂🤞

[subtle anchor]

One thing, Limit Breaks are common ground in RPGs for sure, but most RPG fights don't end turn 1 or 2 or function the same way as Orna

I actually find myself intrigued by the concept and I'm okay with it but I think it's important to make that distinction. Cloud doesn't Omnislash after getting hit only once or twice so I think the charging is going to take some work to balance in Orna

The abilities too - if Apex is up all the time even after using abilities then other abilities and gear are going to fall by the wayside. If Apex isn't up often enough at least it turns off weaknesses

If we are getting gear of some kind then my vote is armor adornments since Ori Mortars are weapons and I do not want to have to decide between the two and/or a celestial weapon

Now, since Ursa seems to be fairly Limit Break centric, is there anyway at all that Ara can get the Brave/Default Mechanic? That might be a real nightmare to code and balance but the idea of storing up or even going into turn debt would be kind of awesome. And maybe "Apex Debt" would be a way to look at it. I.E Ara gets more effects or charges Apex slow but can enter "debt" or a cool down period to take an extra turn(s) or do some crazy bonkers stuff i.e proc ALL passives.

Alternatively for a much simpler idea, I do like S2's one class starts at 0 and another class starts at 100 just for some variety of playstyle/options beyond magic Deity vs mage deity

Apex Debt could be used to skip multi-turn casts or something

[finite berry]

Cool thought!

I definitely like the idea of one cele class starts at 100 apex and one at 0 apex

It would help to cover all types of gameplay, and is a simple solve to make the two classes different

[subtle anchor]

0 speedy, 50 normal, and 100 slow is something. And even if the proc rates stayed low, Ara getting to potentially t1 mega buff is kind of cool

Though I really would like to see the proc rates from that passive be more useful 😢 I'm much more invested in that + Staying Power right now

If the identity of deity is switching to Apex + Staying Power (and retaining equip-all), why not have a celestial centric to Staying Power that largely ignores or doesn't depend on Apex?

[molten jetty]

some mod should put this in sticky

[subtle anchor]

Or make it something like: Base specializes in Equip-All or Staying Power (can turn Steadfast 2 to Steadfast if needed to balance)
Ara specializes in whichever Base isn't, Ursa specializes (as is) in Apex?

And a 100 or 75, 50, 0 might be a good way to start?

[finite berry]

Not a bad idea

They just need to be more different than they are now

[stoic harness]

also beast bonds always seemed like a shoe horn solution to make t8, t9 deity special, is that staying? why?

[molten jetty]

what if Staying Power got stronger as the Apex bar is charged?

or if red line / blue stats are replaced by Apex charge stats (Apexline)?

[teal prawn]

I think I would be happy seeing 1 celestial have "apexline" instead of red/blueline.
Dursa: charge apex fast and spend frequently
Dara: charge more slowly but get mode powerful as it grows. Spend apex less often. Could pair well with Staying Power 2 passive.

[molten jetty]

Yes Apexline for Dara!!!

[subtle anchor]

Then we are encroaching too close to Corvus 😮

[coral rock]

If red/blueline is replaced by "apexline" no one would use apex skills.
It should be balanced between getting an small bonus on full apex and its still worth casting a spell because we benefit from it in some situations more than the full bar.

[craggy creek]

100% agree. I like the general direction apex is going. However I do think saving apex needs a little more than just UO not giving weakness. What that is, or the balance of it, I have no idea.

[harsh tusk]

why not flip it. lower apex for buffs

[craggy creek]

Wouldn't that just be another way of adding a apex buff spell?

Cause you have to use it lower it.

[harsh tusk]

it will be less powerful + you don't get the uo buff at full apex.

like overall, high apex is still going to be better for most cases

[craggy creek]

Ah, I see. So suggest that in a few niche cases lowering your apex could give you a buff that is more helpful?

[harsh tusk]

yes. it will be more helpful for burst damage where as keeping it charged it overall more beneficial

[subtle anchor]

Another thought- not that I ever thought I'd compare Orna to this game but

Smash Bros Ultimate has Cloud and sort of Lil Mac and Terry all with a "limit break" like effect without being busted. They also have unique-ish ways of charging if I'm not mistaken.

Cloud has a bit building each turn, plus some damage dealt, plus some damage taken as well as a move that forgoes taking action to charge faster

Lil Mac is time + damage dealt primarily and a bit of damage taken - but falls off after not being used for so long

and pretty sure Terry is the same or similar to Lil Mac.

Dunno if different charging methods being faster or slower is one more way the classes can all feel different or not

So maybe something like:
-Ursa speedy charge, starts at 0, maybe damage dealt/taken is slightly higher including self damage/zerk for slightly weaker effects
-Base is normal charge, starts at 50, maybe gains a bit more per turn and weights damage dealt higher than taken or some other way to mixup, normal effects when using apex ability
-Ara is slower charge, starts at 100, maybe gains most per turn but less when dealing damage or taking damage?

or heck, maybe Ara gets the move that can skip a turn to charge Apex faster

dunno

Ara starting with 100% Apex also makes the currently very low feeling proc rate on Apex cast feel more justifiable since getting 100% buff access on turn one would be bonkers

[stoic harness]

id like more apex skill t.buff like manyalus, or DC

that are too good not to use

[teal prawn]

Throw out some ideas for apex spenders. What could you see yourself using?
tdmg ++ (or tall+?)
all tbuffs are prolonged (cant fade) for 4 turns
2 turns of 100% dodge
tbuff where spells dont consume mana
tbuff for ward regen per turn
tbuff that makes all spells cast in 1 turn

[subtle anchor]

All spells cast in 1 turn is probably the only one I'd use/be balanceable

t.All+ isn't much of a buff so I'd never use it and it has an obscenely high fade rate
all t.buffs are prolonged feels pretty unfair TBH
2 turns of 100% dodge wouldn't be much fun for anyone and once again not very fair
spells not consuming mana maybe in endless
ward regen can already be slotted in/from amities
spells cast in 1 turn would be cool and potentially balanceable as well as making Ultima 2 at the very least a primarily Deity move

[shrewd cedar]

Did something changed or apex bar grow was always fast in raids?

[shrewd cedar]

Maybe permament random elemental aoe? (for base deity)
Ice/water - multi hit
Fire - main target hit, weaker blast dmg to other enemies
Earth - aoe split splash
Lighting - chain aoe, each target takes less dmg
Arcane - small splash, high status chance

Anyway apex bar is more Gilga guard bar IMO
But it will pass as deity mechanics (well)

Mana Siphon lost is kinda +/-

Longer buffs and shorter debuffs - don't fell difference atm
Need more testing. Is it works with equipment buffs?

Overall, rework missies some holes in deity kit.
(ehkm Demigod passives ehkm, there is xenomorph in the room)

Nice try, we need more polish

[shrewd cedar]

Apex bar charges really quick in raids atm. For me it's fine.

[pallid stump]

It also depend on your damage so with the right gear it's consistently charged with 2 attacks (including the apex skill).

[shrewd cedar]

Thanks for info, it's really good charge/dmg ratio
It's non main test dummy so dmg is preaty low.

[pallid stump]

I would even say it charges a little too fast, maybe could be more balanced if the actual apex skill (2000 blades in your case) wasn't producing apex charge.

[shrewd cedar]

It's raid content
I would like to test it in live pvp and horde content

[pallid stump]

you don't charge faster in horde, it's still half the bar per turn. But manyalus last for 2 turns so it's all coming together.

[shrewd cedar]

What about Demigod passive? Still no info if it will be changed or something?

[subtle anchor]

Whats wrong with demigod???

[shrewd cedar]

It is harder to cap stat boost vs other classes
That's why Realmshifter got HT
We have purpleline instead of redline
Maybe something like
Weaker HT on full apex bar

[teal girder]

Current charge rate is really really fun, and makes it feel actually worth using and different from other classes! (Maybe too fast/fun but I love it so much haha)

[molten jetty]

I would say looking at this that Apexline is winning

[pallid stump]

Not a big fan of it really. It's like having a new toy but you can't play with it.
If the most efficient way to play apex is to not play apex, it misses the mark for me.

[soft steeple]

I mean, it all depends on how the numbers are laid out, really.
That's exactly how Bastille and Spiked Shield works.

Every time a gilga presses the button, they (partially) lose their passive

So long as pressing the button is a bigger gain, albeit riskier, than just letting the bar sit at full, then you're in for a good time of decisionmaking

[subtle anchor]

I really dislike Apexline. We already have more focus on the passive than I think it needs and it would be nice to see other passive get a chance to be focused on or something new entirely.

[mystic basin]

Apexline for a future celestial

[subtle anchor]

But we also have 3 iterations of it (60/60, 70/50, 50/70) and get higher stats and get random t.buffs and have higher base stats to start? I don't feel like demigod is an issue as much as I'd love something like HT

If anything changing the celestials to be more skewed toward red on Ursa and blue on Ara might be the only thing I think could change

[finite berry]

Plz no apexline

It ruins the point of apex

[shrewd cedar]

Just simple dot dmg reduction would be fine. HT is op in case of redlining. Pure HT for deity would be overkill
It's not my intention to pursue high op status for deity :p

[finite berry]

If i had the power to eliminate apexline as an idea, I would

[coral rock]

*60/60
50/80
80/50

[nimble ravine]

Don’t know if it’s been said, but maybe a t.all + when at full apex for an additional bonus for sitting at full apex?

Like have it fall off when you use an apex skill

[pallid stump]

Ok but it looks to passive. At least collateral and avidity when happening create a big of surprise and joy but having flat bonus from not using apex feels like another addition to the purple line.
It's already the case with the removal of weaknesses, but if you add even more power it will because the most efficient way to play apex and that's the point I don't like.

I would rather see "effects on apex use" than "effects at full apex".

[finite berry]

Agreed

A non stat passive if you hold the bar full -if anything-

Purple line is already plenty of juggling and its fine to keep it that way. Just plz dont add another line to that

[subtle anchor]

Gratzi!

[molten jetty]

seems there is a big going for apexline as well as some hate for apexline, as always the hate is more vocal?

maybe a new pool is needed

[subtle anchor]

I see literally 1 suggestion and 2 people who like it. If that's a "big going" then I think every idea good or bad suggested in this thread has a "big going"

[molten jetty]

i dont think that is 1 or 2

[subtle anchor]

There's nothing about Apexline in that so yes I still see only 1 or 2

[molten jetty]

you sure Additional Bonuses on 100% apex is not apexline?

[finite berry]

Apexline implies stat scaling

Additional bonuses implies something like 'hit extra enemy' or 'proc temp buffs easier'

[subtle anchor]

Okay I see what you're saying but yeah that's not Apexlining haha

[molten jetty]

I for one would like to get rid of purple line / red line / blue line that is from other classes

[subtle anchor]

Sounds like a Gilgamesh

[molten jetty]

either way I think a new pool would be great or at least a list of what is being discussed and what suggestions are on the table

[proper briar]

It's not 'from other classes', Deity has had it as part of it's identity since day one

[finite berry]

Im fine with purpleline but dont care either way. It doesnt add any fun factor really so it can be rid of

As long as strength is added elsewhere

In a more fun way

[subtle anchor]

Apexlining seems... antifun to me

[molten jetty]

because new ideas are just coming everyday and there is no point IMO

[finite berry]

Maximize fun is always my motive with these changes

Apexline probably isnt it. Prevents you from using apex

[molten jetty]

till the next new thing

[proper briar]

1. Maximize fun
2. Don't be too OP

[finite berry]

Yes this

Dorado passive

I cant emphasize enough

[teal prawn]

I think the reason people like Apexline is really that they dislake red/blueline. I'm in that camp.
So maybe just a stat passive each time you spend Apex up to a cap?

[proper briar]

And that sounds like GS Hydrus's stat passive, which many would agree is very antifun

Needing to repeatedly charge and use something to get your stat passive is incredibly slow.

[subtle anchor]

I'll admit purplelining is tricky

[molten jetty]

without a pool we can't really say numbers

as previous pool said the opposite anyway

[finite berry]

We can rid purpleline on celestials and get an Ara II and Ursa II and id be absolutely over the moon

But hey thats just me ill admit

[soft steeple]

I think you mean to say "poll"

[molten jetty]

Maybe?

[soft steeple]

If you mean a collection of votes to gauge opinion, then yes, it's a poll

[molten jetty]

auto-correct is always right though

either way please make a new POOL

[proper briar]

😠

[molten jetty]

/pool

it works for me

[proper briar]

/poll question: Do you like the idea of Deity's stat passive being tied to Apex in some way, rather than purpleline as it is now? choices: Yes, No

@soft steeple help please?

[molten jetty]

maybe just mods can do it

[proper briar]

That would be correct

Hence why I pinged a mod

[molten jetty]

but you gotta tell him what he needs to write there

[proper briar]

That would be the thing directly above the ping...

Which is a command he can copy-paste

[molten jetty]

I cant read that font

https://tenor.com/view/funny-cant-see-cant-read-meme-ken-jeong-gif-16673476

[finite berry]

No

K next poll

[molten jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/movie-one-eternity-later-gif-7900643

[teal prawn]

All 3 Deitys dont have to lose Purpleline. I think the original thought was 1 celestial trying something new.

[subtle anchor]

I think I would rather have a t9 passive like GUrsa if we go that route. Weaker overall but is just charged like it was leading up to t10

[tepid walrus]

John Egbert

question: Do you like the idea of Deity's stat passive being tied to Apex in some way, rather than purpleline as it is now?

1⃣ Yes
2⃣ No

[finite berry]

Odie votes no

Next

[molten jetty]

Glad the poll was made as it contrasts with the previous one

Now it's just about what should be done regarding the boost at 100%, pack it and done.

[soft steeple]

Lmao I left the "Question: " in

[molten jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/hk47-kotor-love-definintion-gif-23096952

[proper briar]

The formatting I copy-pasted was for Carl, sorry lol

[finite berry]

Can we poll 'replace redline/blueline with unique cele passives on one or both celestials'

Unofficially

[limber lily]

What is unique cele passive?

[finite berry]

Hydrus / Dorado / Ursa (gilga) / Corvus (realm or heretic) /Auriga (beo)
For examples
But something different of course

That make the playstyle actually unique in a sense from base version

[molten jetty]

I think that is already answered as NO in the previous poll

[finite berry]

That to me represents the biggest bummer about deity is all 3 classes play the same just at different speeds or magic vs attk

[finite berry]

That isn't correct - we voted no to apexline

[finite berry]

Thoughts?

[molten jetty]

so you just want to replace redline/blueline?

[finite berry]

Yes

[molten jetty]

without creating a new line

[finite berry]

On celestials

Correct

[molten jetty]

ah ok

[finite berry]

But adding strength in a new unique celestial style passive

[limber lily]

That's why I would like it connected with apex. That's already new line. 🤷

[finite berry]

Similar to Dorado for example

Or Hydrus

BeoH doesnt redline but gets a 40% hybrid off the bat

That is unique to that celestial

And creates a fun playstyle

[limber lily]

Not like regular Beo doesnt have that....

[finite berry]

It has a lesser version

BeoH actually takes it next level and makes it usable

[limber lily]

Celes has stronger version of purple

[finite berry]

U get the point though

[molten jetty]

I think Beoh is the pet sacrifice second chance

[finite berry]

But purple is zzzzzzzzz

Fun factor man

Thats what im after hwre

All 3 classes purple? Zzzzzzz same playstyle

[limber lily]

So vote yes

[molten jetty]

and what you replace purple line with?

[finite berry]

A unique celestial passive

[limber lily]

That's why I did that

[finite berry]

Apexline aint it tho

[molten jetty]

what unique celstial passive?

[finite berry]

So i voted no

Because it ruins the point of apex

Apex is a charger. If you dont charge it you get stats? Counter intuitive

[finite berry]

Come up with one

[molten jetty]

but you replacing purple line with vacuum

[limber lily]

It is, you want line? Keep apex. You want skill? Use apex. Tbh as high AL ...i will keep that first all the time. 😅

[pallid stump]

power of gods 2, like for beoH and gilgaU

[finite berry]

Like Dorado/ Corvus / Ursa / hydrus / auriga / hercules

[molten jetty]

you want to replace purple line with dorado dex passive?

[finite berry]

Not specifically

Something -Similar-

[molten jetty]

give an original example

[finite berry]

That creates a unique playstyle

Ok

[limber lily]

If DUrsa start with Apex it would even boost his tower perfermance, as each battle he will have some passive. 🤷

[finite berry]

'Ursa II - has potential chance to hit 1 extra monster with any skill'

For example

Dont take that as the actual solution

[molten jetty]

purpleline instead of inceasing stats, increases elemental weakness exploit ?

purpleline instead of inceasing stats, increases attack or magick by 200% depending or Dursa / Dara ?

purpleline instead of increases stats, increase apex damage by 200%?

[harsh void]

200% ? Triple total increase?

[molten jetty]

I have no clue how to balance that

[harsh void]

Currently the passive is 120%

So that's a mighty jump

[molten jetty]

but for all stats including defenses

when you are at 1% it does not seem that usefull unless you into dodge and getting 0s

[limber lily]

120 which is never achievable😁

[harsh void]

Take my 50

[molten jetty]

instead of purple line, you age in combat and you get 2% stats per turn shrug

[finite berry]

@proper briar you played deity, what do you think of this

[molten jetty]

instead of purpleline, when you would get 100% stats from it, instead you get an ethereal form, dealing more magic damage and becoming immune to physical damage

[limber lily]

Apex, new metter. 👌

[molten jetty]

idk I dont think you can't replace purple line without tying it to apex

[limber lily]

That sounds so cool, wish I never read it...

Cuz it won't happen

Sad gurn

🫠

[finite berry]

Dorado passive isnt tied to avidity

Your logic is flawed

[molten jetty]

but avidity was added much later

[finite berry]

Doesnt matter

[molten jetty]

it does because you want to remove purple line and dorado passive was not removed

[finite berry]

Gotta drop the apex line discussion Odie already voted no to that poll

Just wasting time here

[molten jetty]

its not apexline now, its apex itself

[finite berry]

We dont have to tie everything to apex

Some people dont like it

And want something different

[molten jetty]

and you also want to remove purple line while at it

[finite berry]

Some people do like it

[molten jetty]

ok but then you have to add something

[finite berry]

And still want some thing different

[finite berry]

A unique celestial style passive

I've said it 10 times

[molten jetty]

if you dont want to add anything then you have to make what you already have stronger, like apex

[finite berry]

Just gonna go for now sorry man

[molten jetty]

you saying unique but not saying how, I am in for it but without saying how it is kinda empty

I even tried to give some ideas you didnt like any, how unique you want it to be

[limber lily]

(and Apex is quite unique )

[finite berry]

Non apexline related

I gave a suggestion

You blew thru it

[molten jetty]

yes but it has to be unique and he must like it, but he does not say what he likes, just that it does not already exist, it is very hard to cater to that

removing purple line suggests, he does not like passives, disliking apex suggests he does not like activation mechanics

[finite berry]

Replacing purple line

With a unique celestial style passive

[molten jetty]

why isnt this unique? too op?

[finite berry]

Yes

And its the same mechanic

[shrewd cedar]

Hmmmm

[proper briar]

Man, I'm happy enough with the current purpleline situation

I'm sitting more in the camp of 'lets not overcomplicate an already complicated rework'

[finite berry]

Did apex restore fun factor to deity for you then? (Or you envision a future iteration doing so)

[proper briar]

I think Apex + Positive status themeing make Deity a fun build-around class

[finite berry]

Then we are good

I don't feel that way but if others do then it was a success👍

[subtle anchor]

I think I'm in the same boat on not overcomplicating

I don't mind Purpleline in its current forms. If anything I'd say push Ursa to 90, 30 and Ara to 30, 90 but not really necessary

[proper briar]

Ursa's 80% at the moment is already enough that double quad edge does give a noticable stats boost

And Ara's performance in Endless says enough about how well the blueling part works

[subtle anchor]

Fair! I also did think it was 70/50 so my bad

[finite berry]

Not sure where this would be useful

Plz enlighten me

[proper briar]

I used it for dungeons and raiding

[finite berry]

I suppose at low t10

But celestials inherently are high t10/t11

[proper briar]

I don't live and breathe turn economy, I was Deity at 250 Ascension 40+

[finite berry]

Fair enough

I guess that's where deity is headed so it works

[proper briar]

My raid skill rotation was:

1. WoO
2. Mimic
3. Wyrm
4. Gunnr
5. Quad Edge
6. Quad Edge
7. Rend Daggers until someone dies

[finite berry]

If damage output is low relative to hp of raid/dungeon i can see redline helping in that scenario

I used to use zerk 3 to take advantage of it while maintaining turn economy in raids when i played deity

[proper briar]

This is ascension 28 because it's an older mirror

And I didn't utilize Apex because I was trying to show how I used to raid

[finite berry]

Basically this statement holding true

Helps to redline if you arent 1 or 2 shotting raids

Which i realize might not be the norm

Hence why i conceded my view

Thanks for the anecdote/test though

Also to note didnt see any use of apex there 🤔

[proper briar]

^

[finite berry]

It never charged anyways

Was my point

Didn't need it

[proper briar]

Yeah, a swash setup against a T8 raid isn't Apex's best showing

[limber lily]

Full apex as passive and no need for redline 🤗

[finite berry]

So just 'you get buffs in 5 turns ' type of thing?

[finite berry]

My goals here are as follows:
-To make apex usable for all god class players of all tiers/ALs in all content
-To restore fun factor of Deity, god classline, and Celestials

If the masses believe we have achieved this, my mouth will be shut

It sounds like this may have been achieved according to half of the people, and the other half not so much. So still trying to find ways to improve while maintaining balance and not overcomplicating things

[proper briar]

Hmm, at the moment it almost feels like Apex is charging too fast

[finite berry]

The charging speed surely is going to be the trickiest to balance

There really is no easy sweet spot

[proper briar]

I'm using Arrowstorm from my Bricriu's bow and filling it in 2 dungeon floors 🤔

[finite berry]

What does apex help with in dungeons tho?

[proper briar]

And then I get into Manyalus, which obviously fills it right back up

[proper briar]

Infinite Manyalus sure as heck does

[finite berry]

We already get temp buffs for days. Horde dungeons were easy even at early t10 on deity

With pretty minimal / easy to obtain gear

Sounds fun to have infinite manyalus but does it help here ?

[soft steeple]

Consider manyalus on Ursa anguish dungeons using single target high damage/penetration moves

[proper briar]

I don't have high anguish on the beta, and Anguish has it's real cost to turn up =/

(Anyway, I was going to make a video of just Guarding Strikes 4ing an entire Anguish 50 dungeon)

[finite berry]

Trying to separate anguish and dungeons here, fwiw i like apex for anguish

[soft steeple]

Is it not okay for Apex not to change regular dungeons then? As you said, Deities already stomp through that content easily with little to no gear investment

[finite berry]

Yeah that's fine

I guess endgame players get easier anguish and endless running. Apex works for all. I rest my case

[proper briar]

I would argue in this case, it makes Deity Ursa potentially the best class for Anguish 50

Better than Chained Shield already was

[finite berry]

Yeah which is against what odie posted there

So slow down the charging?

[proper briar]

That's my opinion, yeah

[finite berry]

I can get behind it

But then itll feel too slow in other content

[proper briar]

Charging quicker is good, it makes it more useful more places.

Fully charging off of two AoE attacks is a bit much

[finite berry]

It's too content dependent in my experience

I barely get to use it in raids but it's available all the time in dungeons

[proper briar]

I don't fully understand the mechanics behind it

Is it using % of an enemy's HP?

[finite berry]

How do you balance the charging between content? Would you agree that maybe it needs different speeds or something?

[finite berry]

Great question

If the charging were more turn based, it would be more normalized across content

[proper briar]

Because actually, on testing again, I'm getting fully charged after two floors in a non-horde dungeon

Starting it non-horde was an accident but it works out

[finite berry]

Havent run non horde so i dont know, but if that's what you're finding maybe it treats a 'horde' like a single monster

In terms of splitting % across the horde of mobs

[finite berry]

Do you think dungeons charge too fast but raids charge too slow?

[proper briar]

Lmao

Have you tested it since yesterday's update?

It's charging very quickly in raids for me

As for it actually having a use in raids at T11... less so

Wait what

It charged fully for me after two quad edges against Fey Chimera, but against Yggdrasil it didn't

It did fully re-charge after two Ultimastrikes though, which seems like a fine speed

--

[finite berry]

Oh actually no I haven't

Just tried it after you said it tho on Ara

And i know you're doing ursa

If Ara is the big hitter with slower charge speed, then I think the raid charging speed is decent

[proper briar]

I'm trying to figure out if Ursa accidentally has Ara's passive of getting temporary statuses when you use Apex skills or if it's just a coincidence

For some reason I'm getting at least T. Att or T. Att every time I use Barrilalus

[teal kestrel]

Per one of Odie's previous statements, I thought the Ara and Ursa status effect proc passives only applied to status effects that could be granted via gear (since he specifically mentioned Imagination and Mammon's Sword).

[proper briar]

It's hard to keep track

Ok, "You or your equipment"

[teal kestrel]

Oh yeah, totes. Only reason I remembered is cuz that's one of the things I was specifically trying to test 😅

Oh, guess I missed that.

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-homer-simpson-gif-13518564799186478937

The consistency of those buffs being applied on-kill with Ursa was hit-and-miss enough for me to be a little uncertain how impactful the mechanic was.

[molten jetty]

avidity?

[proper briar]

?

[molten jetty]

avidity is literally the opposite of that statement and maybe CD too no?

[proper briar]

Hence why that statement was 6 days ago 😂

[molten jetty]

I dont get it

[proper briar]

Avidity and CS make Anguish easy.

Odie wants anguish to be harder.

Odie doesn't want to make Deity equal to Avidity and CS, because that would be making anguish easier.

[molten jetty]

but wasent the idea of class rework to make them as strong as the uniques of realm and gilga through a unique way?

[proper briar]

So it's more likely in the future we see a chance to either Anguish, or to Avidity/CD/CS

[molten jetty]

I see

[proper briar]

The idea would be making the classes more equal, but by bringing the other ones down

[molten jetty]

seems fair

[finite berry]

Tested both celestials in raids. Seems quick enough in both cases to get a big swing /apex use at the end of a reasonable amount of buffs

Better than before. Maybe tweaks in future with more data from others

That's way too fast for Ursa in dungeons though sheesh

So works in raids, works too well in dungeons, prob needs tweaking, and with future skills/apex related gear I think this is enough of a go

Playstyles are different enough with different apex effects (extra turn, proc temps on enemy kill vs proc temps on apex use )

Only other issue I can see is Ara getting lost in some cases here. Ursa feels superior in almost every way.

[molten jetty]

So far everyone said Ursa is better than Ara

[untold blade]

Ara dedinitly is kinda bad atm

At least compared to base and ursa

[pallid stump]

idk, ara is best at nuke supposedly and we don't have the stuff to test that properly.

now that it can use an apex attack every other turn, it gives plenty of tbuff for raids.

as for dungeons, it's pretty clear that dursa will have the upper hand there by design.

[stoic harness]

is there a single multi turn spell in orna people enjoy?

not since t8 sorrow/nekrosis

[proper briar]

Ultima, Rend/Daggers, Ultimastrikes

[stoic harness]

altho theyre cool concept its hard to slot them

[pallid stump]

DB DC

[stoic harness]

i suppose fey unstable has a spotlight for at least a few lvls

[molten jetty]

What if:
Ursa better at single target (as it is)
Ara better at horde (more buffs similar to avidity for horde)

[stoic harness]

chimera, tiamat, 4x arcane spells

not so much

[pallid stump]

isn't already the case but the other way ?

[stoic harness]

Id burn apex defense bonuses for a 80% buff, somewhere between ^^ and ^^^

[molten jetty]

Ursa is better but to make Ara better maybe it could be a horde spec

[stoic harness]

or some sort of long lasting utility, like crits now heal me

[molten jetty]

Each kill does something for example

[pallid stump]

ursa is already designed to be better at horde by giving you buffs for each kills...

[molten jetty]

Each kill charges apex

[proper briar]

Thats... thats how it currently works. Just damage rather than strictly kill

Are you playing on the beta?

[molten jetty]

This brings to my point, Ursa is just better at everything and unless you want to nerf Ursa to the same level as Ara then Ara needs new toys

[pallid stump]

I wouldn't had any charging mechanic more than what we have now
I would even remove the charge you get from damage with an apex skill

[proper briar]

Ara should be a lot better at raiding and endless with Apex. We just lack the mirrors to actually test it

[finite berry]

Maybe it's unclear how good ara is just yet because.. beta

Exactly

[proper briar]

My mirror is one of the most current but it's before I unlocked a celestial staff

[finite berry]

Ive got celestial stuff. No ALs in deity. What would you like me to try

[molten jetty]

Why you would use Ara on those instead of Ursa?

[proper briar]

Are you familiar with how endless is typically run on Deity?

[pallid stump]

because 2000 seals may deal a lot of damage

but knowing how 2000 blades work, I would say dursa will be better at endless

[proper briar]

Endless on Deity is usually done with Deity Ara since it has a strong and easy to achieve blueline that you can balance to your skill of choice with acorns, usually either Viperseal III or Ultima.

Ultima endless is done with quickcast on sequencer with a celestial staff setup to guarantee 1-turn ultima.

[molten jetty]

And why Ara should be better in that particular content and not say in Horde ang50 for example?

[proper briar]

tl;dr blueline good, redline hard to maintain

[proper briar]

I'm not trying to debate philosophy I'm trying to explain how a class works

[subtle anchor]

I do think that will change with Ursa getting procs virtually every floor

[molten jetty]

Without a reason to do things, at least for fun I see little reason to do just do for the sake of doing

But from what I understand Ara buffs are wanted. But not for horde and just raids/endless to maybe be different than heretic? Or I am completely wrong?

[proper briar]

I doubt it, blueline and quickcast ultima are a little too good to pass up

[finite berry]

I have both of those on Ara, want me to record a raid?

[pallid stump]

even an M1=12 can't make you change your mind ?

[subtle anchor]

Ara having "the turn after casting apex your next spell will doublecast" or "take 1 less turn"

Would be welcome though I dunno if that's the correct route

1
Or just higher proc rates on cast

[teal prawn]

Doublecast after apex sounds cool. Ara doesnt really seem to have a reason to consume the apex meter in raids right now.

[proper briar]

I ran some numbers and it turns out 2000 seals raiding theoretically can trade blows with a non-min/maxed ultima setup

[finite berry]

Yeah just ran a pretty juiced ultima build

Its quite a range and easily influenced by defenses

But can definitely compete with ultima

[pallid stump]

odie talked about longer raids, but wouldn't 2000 seals suffer in deep raids when stats start to really ramp up ?

[proper briar]

Yes, a lot

You won't use it against Arisen Morrigan and be happy

[finite berry]

250, 0 AL ultima quickcast sequencer on Deity Ara on Beta in action. Thoughts?

[pallid stump]

thoughts on that 2000 seals that hit for 49.000 ?

[coral rock]

looks like apex adds 0 to our raiding ability

[finite berry]

Dc was up on phoenix. Hard hard damage reduction on the 13 hits

[proper briar]

So to sum up thoughts from today:

• Apex might charge too quickly in dungeons
• This allows for constant Manyalus on Deity Ursa and may be too good in Anguish situations
• Deity Ara's passive status procs when using Apex may still be tuned too low of a chance
• 2000 Seals could probably be served to potentially have a slightly higher M1, at the expense of either # of hits or M2

Does that sound good to people?

[pallid stump]

it doesn't charge faster in dungeons than in raids tho

[proper briar]

That doesn't change those points, it might just be better if Apex charged slightly slower in dungeons. I think being able to have 100% manyalus uptime on Deity Ursa is too good in Anguish content.

[pallid stump]

is it better than avidity ? I don't think so

[proper briar]

The enemies don't get a turn ever

[pallid stump]

same with avidity + dof

[proper briar]

Not quite true, also should I bring back the Odie screenshot?

[proper briar]

^

[pallid stump]

but we could have 3 turns to charge so you could still manyalus but with some investment in buff duration

[proper briar]

Right now I don't believe Manyalus is considered a positive status still for the sake of buff duration, I'll double check though

[coral rock]

odie said it is

[proper briar]

Sometimes you have to go by in-game numbers as opposed to what people say

[pallid stump]

could only be a viable answer if everything was brought down. but if you only apply that to a select few classes, it's just not fair.

here for manyalus being a tbuff

[subtle anchor]

Other than saying I think Ara's is just straight up too low, yeah

And I'm still concerned about the PvP charge rate for Blades of Finesse :[

[proper briar]

I agree that PvP is probably a big concern, right now we don't have realistic means to test it

[subtle anchor]

Though honestly that could be mitigated if the House Rules would change every couple months

at least a little

It also looks like you can dual-cast Apex moves per S2's video

which means Ursa can queue up 2 turns if they went Sequencer to be weird or brought one of those doublecast Amities

[proper briar]

Currently I cannot get Manyalus to last more than 1-2 turns

[subtle anchor]

Do you have the gear to help it though?

[proper briar]

Double 50% status amities

[pallid stump]

I had it 3 turns

[proper briar]

I have had it last 3 turns once or twice, this particular dungeon it's just been 1-2

But that's exactly the same as without double 50% positive status duration amities

[pallid stump]

weird, with no amity I 'always' keep it at least 2 turns

[proper briar]

Sorry, I guess I should've said 2-3 turns

I wasn't counting the first turn, since statuses can't fall off that turn

[pallid stump]

has in manyalus > free attack > another attack

[proper briar]

Yeah

With any status, you will always act twice before it can fall off

[pallid stump]

then maybe tell Odie once more. I can't test with amities because I don't have one

[proper briar]

My guess would be that it's classified like Bloodshift as a neutral status?

But I don't actually know how Odie's backend works ofc

Bloodshift isn't boosted by positive or negative duration boosters

Re-posting with added thoughts:

• Apex might charge too quickly in dungeons
• This allows for constant Manyalus on Deity Ursa and may be too good in Anguish situations
• Deity Ara's passive status procs when using Apex may still be tuned too low of a chance
• 2000 Seals could probably be served to potentially have a slightly higher M1, at the expense of either # of hits or M2
• Apex concerns in PvP since Apex skills charge very quickly and never miss, and 2000 Strikes can't be defended against.
• Testing is still showing that Manyalus isn't boosted by positive status duration (2x 50% duration amities, no testable difference)

[spring swift]

https://tenor.com/view/thumbs-up-charlie-day-butt-stuff-gif-11190993

[proper briar]

I think these are starting to look more and more like nitpicks, which is a great sign for this beta, imo

[subtle anchor]

I mean maybe. But we've waited this long. Ironing out details would be ideal- especially on PvP. I don't want cool changes, rest of classes cry foul, boom nerfs

I'd also still enjoy some abilities available at 50% Apex at least

and Ara maybe getting a little something extra

[coral rock]

That's a good summary, but the difference between Dursa and Dara is clear to see. Everyone likes how Dursa works and is looking forward to the class. This is not the case with Dara. And at least with Dara we could go back to S2iVi's suggestion of incorporating something unique

[finite berry]

Sounds perfect

[finite berry]

Additions also good

Also wouldnt mind something with Dara to make it more unique and help from here

[subtle anchor]

It doesn't have to be a buff

Just something to help differentiate it

give it a unique playstyle

I do also think the 100, 50, 0 starting charges might be interesting if needed to help smooth out charge rate balancing

[finite berry]

Ara start at 100 would be welcomed and interesting enough

[subtle anchor]

Getting to lead off with a Manyalus against a Summoner, a Barrielus against a Gilga, or just a 2000 shot right off the bat would be exciting

[subtle anchor]

It would also functionally restore Ara's original "Omnimancy" since you'd start off not weak

[neat whale]

Not for the Summoner or Gilga 😄

[subtle anchor]

Summoner pets have 300k hp anyway, they'll be okay

Gilga swaps to SS1

But fair xD

[harsh void]

Ss1 doesn't always save you by any means

I've had it zeroed on more than one occasion

[thorn yacht]

Where'd you get lugus from?

[finite berry]

Lugus

[subtle anchor]

On a tangentially related note- and as a way to further differentiate Deity from Beo, and to make Ara the true nuke- what if Ara gets a passive that begins with: "While you don't have a follower...."

It could do something like:
-Enemies can not be immune to your skills

Or

-Your multi-turn skills are stronger and take one less turn

Or

-Your skills and spells may hit additional targets. They deal bonus damage for each target hit.

Or... the sky is kind of the limit. It would also be an optional passive so not taking away any build options but definitely adding some ideas

Also might make the Eastern Regalia feel like it has a home somewhere

@proper briar @finite berry @pallid stump what do you guys think??

[stoic harness]

T8 and T9 lose beast bonds in exchange for some apex solo buff?

or in exchange ((for nothing cause they have their own thing now))?

[finite berry]

Im all for something that makes for a unique playstyle always. Doesn't seem over complicated either

Pets are just so strong though. This would have to be pretty good in return for that tradeoff

[subtle anchor]

In other words-

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I have yet to see Ara get a single proc from casting Apex and I haven't seen Ursa get them on kills either. Turns are working fine for Ursa at least and its charge rate feels okay for dungeons. Ara's feels pretty awful.

Furthering I think Ara should get something like the above

[thorn yacht]

Apex charging on ara feels way better now. Even so much that the mp cost is probably justified now which still leaves conflict on spell economy, but not much. The utility options and buff procs are almost a good reason alone to use apex meter

Maybe reduce the utility apex skills to 0 mp still

Though like others have said, aras buffs on apex skills feels low enough that im not sure it's Even happening because of the passive

There's a lot of flavor I'd like to have on deity, but the current ara build is balanced and rewarding in a vacuum.

[coral rock]

That's an cool idea and was discussed in the past.
I would love to see a Dursa without pet and an bonus like "your skills and spells may hit additional targets"
But Dursa is already good and this might be a bit too much. At least for Horde gameplay petless can help to save time.

To Dara:
Dara is made to be the endless and raiding class. You need a lot of dmg in this contents and the time save form pet actions don't weight in a lot. I can't se how I play these contests without pet. Phnx is a must have for endless and the dmg Boni that pets can give might not be able to convert into petless without making it OP or simply bad. In my mind it would be bad to play Dara without pet.

[proven sonnet]

this "without a pet" thing is more suited to beoH if anything imo

[quick drum]

yet a good direction for new celestial BEO

[prime mountain]

If manyalus would be boosted by status duration stuff, wouldn't that funnel back into point one?

[pallid stump]

not if chaining manyalus needs to invest in buff duration. Would be strong but need to build into it. RN it's chainable out of the box.

[prime mountain]

True but who doesn't use a 50% status duration amity anyways?

[pallid stump]

side note but I don't think perma manyalus is that strong. Sure it's strong, but so is avidity or collateral. AND spamming manyalus is extremely mana costy.

manyalus is 400 mana for reference

if you want to spam manyalus + viperstrike 3, you need 420 mana regen per turn.
Sortie being only 40 mana could be an option, but still need 240 mana per turn.
IDK how the recharge amity work with multi target, maybe someone with mirror can test, but then you'd need to invest in crit.
Need to try warrior's pavane.

[quick drum]

mana pant will be useful

[pallid stump]

which one ?

[quick drum]

https://playorna.com/codex/items/serpentslayers-legwear/

[pallid stump]

don't have that :/
But yes, some of those + lots of acorn. Still 400 mana per turn is no joke but I tried with sortie and it's ok if it crits.

[quick drum]

if you want to assess, try this
https://codex.fqegg.top/#/codex/items/serpentslayers-legwear/

[pallid stump]

damn it goes up to 2100 mana without adorns... and it gives att too. But that much hp will most likely lock you out of swash.

[quick drum]

Farm it next month!

[pallid stump]

with this you can reach 5000 mana pretty easily, and with 8 slots acorned we're talking 200+ mana per turn

4 + 4 more acorns in head / armor and we get to 400

that could work but cost you all your adorn slots

[prime mountain]

Great minds think alike... Or something

don't have anguish 50 unlocked on the beta

keeping track of manyalus is pretty annoying, icon isn't really catchy and it's kinda wierd that it's buried down the permanent buffs and not with all the other temporaries

takes some getting used to heh

[pallid stump]

Interesting. So the pants will most likely become mandatory, need to work harder next month.
I'm a bit saddened by the fact that it's still some SS build. I would have hoped for manyalus to free us from that, but I guess as a gilga you're naturally attracted by ward items (and the flat accuracy 💀).

[prime mountain]

i just used ss cause 95% hit chance could use any other spell but i'd probably miss a lot more

[prime mountain]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

1240 dex fwiw

[pallid stump]

so it works with that pants, need to work hard next month

[finite berry]

Good vid 👍

[finite berry]

Probably just mana regen would work tbh

[neat whale]

I wonder if it's still doable with Just Swash and not BoF spec

[pallid stump]

you need (400 + [your spell mana] * 2) / 3 -> mana per turn.

[soft steeple]

In order to not go down in mana*

You can still go negative so long as you're not bleeding enough mana to run out in 25 floors

[pallid stump]

yes, then you need to adapt depending on your total mana

[soft steeple]

assuming it takes 50 turns to get through 25 floors, which it might due to misses/second chances/reapplying manyalus, you need the mana bleeding to be about under 2% of your max mana.
In Yoshi's video, he has 6k mana pool, so he could be bleeding 120 mana per turn and pretty consistently not run out of mana

[pallid stump]

6k mana is huge tho

average player has more like 3000 i'd say

[soft steeple]

Considering Manyalus costs 400 mana and GS3 costs 190 mana, he's spending on average 260 mana, so he only needs 140 mana regen

He's regenning 210 so s'all good

[finite berry]

Point is, doable without having to target specific gear. Charging speed is pretty wild tbh

Made easier with specific gear

[pallid stump]

yes, still doable with acorns and maybe even missing mana amity in worst case scenario

[prime mountain]

I don't have a swash loadout so here's brawler

[soft steeple]

There's always max mana per turn amities, too. Those go up to 5%

aka 10 acorns

[soft steeple]

What's up with the Mammword?

[prime mountain]

temp buffs

[soft steeple]

Also worth noting Yoshi is a whopping Ascension Level 1

[soft steeple]

Fair enough. 2% proc rate though

[prime mountain]

horde content, dursa passive, staying power

[soft steeple]

Ascension level 1.
Doing Anguish 40 Horde content relatively fast.
As a Brawler
Good gear, but still, most of his power is in the offense, and he's not even using SS anymore. Which means it's basically just a celestial weapon's worth of investment

[prime mountain]

i've done multiple runs now, it's very consistent

[soft steeple]

If this doesn't indicate how powerful these reworks currently are, not quite sure what does ahah

[quick drum]

or use katar

[pallid stump]

it is powerful, no one is denying it. the question is how much powerful is too much powerful. And if current iteration is too much, how to bring it down without breaking it completely

[untold blade]

Seems slower than deity CS/BoF build, but asc1 and probably unoptimzed loadout. And definitly slower than avidity/CD from other classes while using more brain cells

[proper briar]

I think trying to make every class use minimal brain cells for playing the game is bad gameplay, tbh

[untold blade]

But again, hard to compare without miror character

[soft steeple]

The answer currently is probably taking the charge rate of apex down a tad, and having it scale with status duration

Charge rate down means there will be downtime turns, which means you need to be able to take hits.
Scaling with status duration means you can somewhat minimze that risk, even though it will be ever present, by gearing towards it

[untold blade]

I agree. But meta in orna is all about how fast you can clear a content. Thus using brain aint meta :p

[neat whale]

It's good to have a mix

[mystic basin]

Looks promising! Excited to try with my character 👀

[pallid stump]

@prime mountain do you have a lute with selene to try ? (because dursa can use lute now)

[prime mountain]

i can use a lute over an axe but im not sure why

cause i'd expect the same result

[pallid stump]

I was thinking this, or damage reduced a bit when manyalus is active.

[soft steeple]

Might even be less reliable

you're dealing enough damage to murder

the axe gives more survivability for when things don't die

Berserks aside, that is

[pallid stump]

and you would probably still need to SS1 when dex is not enough

[prime mountain]

At this rate I'll hit anguish 50

[limber lily]

So yea, this things boost low AL ang horde dungs. A lot. Which Odie want to avoid(?). Also boost endless, cuz of some M1=12/non-missing skills. Wasn't that said many times that those are fields where Deity don't need much of a change? (so we are still here #1219675348434812998 message)

Not to mention clicking Manylaus and doing horde like this take crazy amount of time.

[prime mountain]

Okay so here's a supposedly less reliable run for some reason?

[neat whale]

You should keep Perfect Shot on your bar for those Imm Lords

See if you have enough damage with lute to nuke them

[mystic basin]

Is Ara any good for Anguish? Or Ursa is going to be the Anguish boy?

[quick drum]

mages are not easy to do Anguish Boss Hrode

[pallid stump]

the free turn on apex use is the thing that make it work so well so dara may be usable but definitely one step back.

[mystic basin]

Understood

[hollow reef]

Today's updates:

• Fixed the issue preventing buffs proccing on apex / death with the Deity celestials
• Apex will no longer charge on apex use
• Tweaked apex charge rates a little more
• New utility apex skill: Channelalus (😏)
• Apex spells will now use att/mag, whatever is higher

[proper briar]

I love that last feature, great for god class skills

[quick drum]

Channelalus is T9 apex skill

[proper briar]

It does exactly what you'd expect it does

[mystic basin]

Nice

[quick drum]

is there any more changes for Dara in the future

[hollow reef]

with the proc on apex functional again for DAra, we should reconsider its current state. otherwise - perhaps

[pallid stump]

|| Apex spells will now use att/mag, whatever is higher
Does this mean DAra can use 2000 blades and DUrsa can use 2000 seals ?

[hollow reef]

that change only applied to the non-celestial spells

[pallid stump]

ok, have you also seen the feedback on 2000 seal low M1 being limiting for longer raids ? (compared to ultima that is)

now that I think of it, dara will probably use channelalus if not using gods of aaru.

[hollow reef]

Neutra Eventualus should compete with 2000 now if pen is desired

[pallid stump]

ah true

[lost orchid]

Any thoughts on manyalus potentially needing to be brought down? It's current trajectory will make it the new anguish meta for everybody, especially once it's live and there is access to better amities (50% status) and mortars

[hollow reef]

that's certainly a concern that we'll need to validate when this is live

[lost orchid]

Why do we need to wait...?

Yoshi ripped through an anguish 39 as ascension 1, on an uniptimized build, with the proc rate changes not even functional

It's showing to be too strong, for your stated design goals, in a beta environment where it is weaker than it will be on live due to beta constraints

[hollow reef]

I am responding to your point: "will make it the new anguish meta for everybody"

stating that everybody will shift meta to this build is not something a beta can prove

[pallid stump]

I wouldn't call "unoptimized build" a 200% fey surtr armor, 2 ornate carl's ring, a 200% spiked greatshield, and some unique event gear for mana.

[finite berry]

Excited to try these out later today. Thanks for the update!

[finite berry]

Its also not that straightforward. You have to actually use your brain to think about which abilities to use when. This Vs. CS realmD ( which you prob use, and IS the meta) is just mashing same ability and pretty brainless in comparison. I agree charging might need adjustment, but lets not even compare the two since there really is no comparison

One can be done eyes closed. One cannot. Thats a huge difference

[lost orchid]

I don't think hitting 2 buttons instead of 1 is some miraculous change to requirements

[finite berry]

Its more than 2, and anything more than 1 is still infinitely harder than single button mashing. No debate needed here though. Just pointing something out

Lets try odies changes today

[hollow reef]

Friends, i'm not interested in this channel becoming a class war. please use other channels for discussion not pertaining to testing deity

[lost orchid]

I'm interested in getting the cool new diety changes to align with your desired goals. Those included not making anguish content easier for everybody.

The current iteration goes directly against that goal

[soft steeple]

Considering that he did just fine using GS4 instead of SS, the spiked greatshield and FSurtr were a lot less impactful that one might think. A regular Arisen Shield and FYC would've done the job just as well.
Plus with some 20 or so ascensions and a FYC, the mana problem is probably solved without needing the mana pants, albeit with an amity and a couple more acorns

The carls rings are very good though yes.

[lost orchid]

If we want another anguish cheese mechanic, so be it, but then we need to update the intention of this class update

[finite berry]

Happy to debate this in another thread

[pallid stump]

sure, but it's far from unoptimized. It's not like he was using some random items without adorns on a new beta character. I don't think the majority of players have the same weapon as he does for example. and yet he almost lost if not for a lucky double second chance. Not saying it's not doable, it sure is strong, but saying it's so easy that any random can do it is a bit of an overstatement.

[proper briar]

Since the studio tends to be hesitant about nerfs once something is live, I would agree with Bwubble that it's better to try and ensure this high anguish concern is resolved beforehand.

Currently Apex is still fully charging after two attacks in dungeons, which makes Manyalus guaranteed to be able to be kept always online.

[finite berry]

Id be ok with reducing the charging speed there to every 3 floors. I still think that if we compare it to current meta anguish that it's not a big deal

[pallid stump]

and tbf, in his video yoshi almost dyed if not for a lucky double proc of second chance so this is not almighty

[proper briar]

Yes, you already said that

[pallid stump]

10 minutes was all I needed to forget

[proper briar]

In Yoshi's video he also misses re-applying manyalus when he's able to and should, multiple times

[pallid stump]

DAra in raids looks much better now between Channelalus and more tmag procs. I'm still not convinced on Neutra Eventualus, once you unlock ultima it's not good enough to compete. But Channelalus make it so you have something to do with your apex so it's nice.

[fringe steppe]

If this iteration of DUrsa hits live, no one is allowed to complain about CS making anguish too easy ever again

[austere shuttle]

Thanks for your comments. I m quite disapointed if Dara is for endless and not horde dungeons, seing mages (heretic + Dara) useless in horde anguish is quite sad ! (Meaning less effective ofc)

[proper briar]

Err, do Neutra Eventualus and 1000 Strikes have the same stats?

[valid surge]

"Apex spells will now use att/mag, whatever is higher" does it work with the Hybrid spell amity?

[austere shuttle]

I don't think so. Hybrid amity use both att/mag, here it's the highest

[valid surge]

But that's what I'm unsure of. The hybrid amity forces spells and skills to use both att and mag to calculate damage

All spells and skills use either or, with some exceptions

[proper briar]

Go test it with Sands of Aaru and get back to us ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[valid surge]

Oh yeah, that was an addition to Sands

bet

[austere shuttle]

Full apex = hybrid passive for Dara could be an option ? As for now, it's quite strange for Dara having to blueline to reach...BeoH mag stat 😋

[proper briar]

Re:this

Looking at power numbers, both 1000 Strikes and Neutra Eventualus have M1*M2 of 10

I think for 1000 Strikes this is M1=10, M2=1 , but if Eventualus is competing for penetration, then does that mean at the moment both skills are M1=10, M2=1, so functionally identical?

[hollow reef]

There are better threads for these kinds of comments - thank you 🙂

We'll want to keep this one productive re: Deity changes

[hollow reef]

this comment was for seals, which has an m1 of 1.2

[proper briar]

Yeah, I'm just mentioning that two skills seem to be identical atm

Unless I'm wrong, but it was much easier to ask if they're identical than testing M1/M2 numbers, which is fairly tedious

[hollow reef]

oh, yes they are

i think strikes can be high m2 like seals now, given the neutra change. good call

[pallid stump]

isn't neutra still using t.mag buffs ? while strikes use t.att

or does it also look for your buffs when chosing att or mag

[hollow reef]

ideally it uses the right buffs, but i imagine that'll need fixing

[pallid stump]

if it also choose the buffs and is just "your high pen apex" then yes blades could be changed to look like seals.

[loud geyser]

Cross posting from diety channel in OL

@finite berry asked me to post

I’m not a diety player but have been interested in the rework (potentially HOCing to try it out ) but this seems to be the core issue for many long term diety players

Apex seems cool but also at this current moment doesn’t appear to address the idea that dursa and dara are just split personalities of base diety

Rather than alternate interesting play styles

[hollow reef]

they definitely look similar on paper - but imo, playing them and leaning into apex is very different

[teal girder]

after trying them out i'd definitely agree with odie

except about pineapple on pizza

[hollow reef]

ursa + bof, for instance, is nothing like ara

[loud geyser]

Is apex being used as a solution to help their play styles feel distinctly different?

[pure cove]

with Magic and Attack becoming nearly identical Deity gameplay has meshed to feel extremely similar, this including all the celestials for other classes. so its previous fun and niche of allowing for diverse gameplay(deitswash, deittank, deity ss, deity ultima) dont have identity anymore and its just CS, Ultima. Itd be nice if Ara/Ursa changed that up to some degree

[pallid stump]

IMO dara still miss something really sparkling like the free turn of dursa

[loud geyser]

I agree strongly about pineapple on pizza and wish I could of been at PAX area to share some

😆

[hollow reef]

apex interactions are the separator

[pure cove]

they dont play the same but they arent different from base. base practically covers most the same bases. sure can they be sidegrades or niche upgrades, yes. but they dont actually change gameplay

[loud geyser]

I know you just jumped back recently but are you on the beta?

[teal girder]

the apex interactions are very different from base though with these changes

[hollow reef]

i'm not sure i agree. my gameplay is different between the two

just to make sure: we have all played them in the beta, right?

[finite berry]

Which is cool and i agree on paper they seem more similar than they are. But as compared to, for example,
Beo
BeoA
BeoH

WILDLY different

And more fun factor as a result

Like the passives being more different would help

And thats why ive been pushing for that all along

I do agree with what you're saying tho odie

[teal girder]

id say beo is more the outlier in that regard though maybe? and could come down to changes with a pet class are going to feel more impactful and different

[pure cove]

I have not but my argument isnt Ara v. Ursa its Celestials v. Base. Itd be nice if one of the celest was like RS D or Gilga U or Beo H f.e. that totally change form base

[finite berry]

Gursa vs base gilga

RealmD vs base realm

Completely different

I could list every class except deity here

[teal girder]

ah i getcha, but that might be harder to have big differences when deity is a jack of all class already no?

[finite berry]

They all have celestials that actually are different

[loud geyser]

I guess Odie’s opinion he shared here is at the moment apex interactions are what’s generating this distinction

[pure cove]

Ive been gone for a bit been playing plenty Deity at highest endgame and read up on notes

[pallid stump]

I wouldn't say no to an upfront celestial, but that doesn't seem to be the scope of this balance patch

[teal girder]

for example, Gilga and gursa are big difference because it changes the tanky shield part of gilgamesh, we dont have a specific identity like that (tanky shields) so its hard to havea big change? i dont know if that makes sense

[hollow reef]

although i do appreciate everyone's input, i would really like us play the beta before contributing here. speculating from paper just doesn't help move us forward

[pure cove]

I think Apex being the seperator isnt terrible early on but as you endgame those apex alteration mean less. The t. procs are very cool but I dont feel cement different gameplay. Its the same gameplay they just excel in different areas <- niche upgrades. not altered gameplay

[teal girder]

and for this, giving a traditionally shieldless class a shieldy build is a big change, but once again, deity can kinda do it all a bit so making a shield using deity build is nothing new

which is why i guess apex is going to be the thing that changes how you play, and from playing the beta i think it does change it up substantially between base/ara/ursa

[pure cove]

Think Apexs would just have to mean more for it to truly allow for seperation

[teal girder]

like, short of making dara a summoner celestial (pls no) what could we give to deities that they dont already have? kinda HAVE to have the celestials improving certain areas

[finite berry]

Agreed - and I have. The classes are too similar. All 3 are pretty much the exact same, need the same gear, etc up until apex kicks in. Then they are different for that moment

Even tho they do play differently i agree they still have the same theme

[pure cove]

RS D is an entire different identity then RS or RS C f.e. Dara and Dursa arent a different identity

[pallid stump]

Changes to base to get a very different deity class :

• remove purpleline / add power of the gods
• add a passive that convert your crit chance to hybrid monster (you can't crit anymore)

looks more like a 3rd celestial tho

[hollow reef]

DUrsa -> Resurgence
DAra -> Power of the Gods III

[finite berry]

This is more like it

[pure cove]

yummy

[finite berry]

Trends towards different playstyles

[pallid stump]

I'd say the other way because you want power of the gods for fast content without setup like towers, and that seem to be dursa thing

[hollow reef]

DAra: stat boost on each apex use

[pure cove]

ideas like that to me are much more fun and encourage different play

[finite berry]

I think apex on its current level is good. Has differences.
The other passives non apex would make the difference imo

[pure cove]

yeah all these sound very cool to me for changing gameplay form what base deity is capable of

[hollow reef]

we can play with those

in the beta

[finite berry]

Perfect

[pure cove]

Id be happy to run beta on thise

[hollow reef]

which we'll all be playing, right? 👼

[pure cove]

ty Odie 🙏

[finite berry]

1000% already am

Even tried GSH

[pure cove]

i was gone with life issues but im back and ready to test my baby doll Deity UwU

[finite berry]

Hell ya

[proper briar]

I promise that all of my feedback is based on personal gameplay, and will continue to be

[finite berry]

And fwiw its ok if you dont appeal to everyone here (myself included) This game is awesome there are so many other classes I can pick if I want

The updates are great so far

This would be the cherry on top for deity for sure that the people I have talked to have been looking for i think

[loud geyser]

Don’t you mean the pineapple on top?

[proper briar]

Can I petition for mirrors to be opened up, at least for the people that are invested in testing and giving feedback on the new class changes?
(Edit: I don't mean me. I have a mirror)

[pallid stump]

@hollow reef If I get it right, the separate beta is to not destroy the live game with crazy stuff. But it's hard to test without your character. Mirrors are possible but very laborious and need NF action to be done.
So my question is, wouldn't it be good for future update to spend some dev work on a system to let the player import his character from live once per beta (if even possible) ?
Sure takes some time to do but that would lead to better feedback IMHO.

[hollow reef]

yes, someday i'll find time to implement autmated mirrors

it's only been an issue right now with most of the team out - PAX, vacation, etc

[proper briar]

The largest issue with Sandbox at the moment is the lack of adornments/augments, and the lack of any exotic item. I know the latter was done to stop events from repeatedly leaking out of the beta server, but it has hindered public testing a bit

[finite berry]

Ya issue could prob be solved with an updated sandbox. Then we wouldnt need mirrors and prob get better / more frequent feedback.

Good point knight

[coral rock]

Give HoA players a chance to play it

[proper briar]

You're able to make a sandbox character the same as an Orna player is.

[pure cove]

ye if I could get a mirror I would test tf out of Deity lol. Still will try my best ofc but being able to directly compare to my current gameplay would help me understand exactly how things play.

[coral rock]

I did, can't compare without amities and other gears I'm just missing there

And it's super hard if you are in there for the first time

If I could mirror my hoa char in beta I would be ok

[finite berry]

To reiterate and simplify -
-Apex differences between base and celestials are good (with final tweaks to charging)
-non apex aspects of base and celestials are near identical and dont promote different builds

Excited to see where it goes

[proper briar]

I would generally agree with this. Outside of your weapon (which may not even be different if using a celestial lute), gearing between all three classes remains largely the same

[loud geyser]

Got it, diety can no longer use a lute, enjoy

[teal girder]

😢

[finite berry]

Represents what i have been trying to put into words all along. Just needed some help😅

[finite berry]

If some passive differences could force gear differences/stat differences etc, the deity changes here are full send IMO

[teal girder]

what kind of gear differences out of curiosity? 🙂 just trying to understand

[finite berry]

Like dorado forces you to rack up dex, but mystic feather doesnt

For example

[hollow reef]

DAra -> can now only wield swords
DUrsa -> can now only wield archistaffs

there, enjoy your gearing differences

[teal girder]

perfect example i needed to understand ty S2

[finite berry]

I dont like pineapple anymore. Changed my mind

[teal girder]

so not so much thief/warrior/mage, but more like, SS cant crit so gilga doesnt use crit, but heavily wants ward and hp?

or am i still confused

[proper briar]

Yeah, that's another example

[finite berry]

Or like gursa isnt a ward class, but base is

Completely different

Nowhere near identical gear

[teal girder]

currently i do switch depending on wether i use gs4 or ultima, but i guess thats not class based just what im doing-based

[proper briar]

In a theoretical world, Apex doesn't crit, so DAra builds for high magic stat and no crit chance to use big apex hits

As an example

[pallid stump]

dursa weild a celestial 2H sword, were's my 2H celestial sword ?

[finite berry]

Actually not a bad example. A non crit class would be very interesting for a breath of fresh air

[teal girder]

this is what i needed, some ideas to fully understand

[spring swift]

Ever try pineapple + sardine pizza ?

[subtle anchor]

I would... actually be really intrigued. Especially if there was something that eliminated crit chance but made abilities strong but that would sort of restrict builds I guess

[loud geyser]

Dara: now a pugilist class. No weapons

Dursa: sits and watches Dara from a corner in the bedroom

Diety base: why do I have these two celestials

[limber lily]

Swords and no shield? With no DW penalty? I take it.

[thorn yacht]

My dara has high tenacity rn?

Yea, used apex and died

I have high tenacity at full apex and its really nice

Can't tell if it's too nice though

Normally in dgs, accommodating for self damage is a matter of using 1 ashen ruby on my base deity. But it's awkward in that I can't control redline, so I count redline as a loss normally

Gear wise, high tenacity only changes one thing that otherwise fully accounts for self damage, ruby. So high tenacity probably isn't too much to have in that sense

So the other benefit is whether or not deity should be able to redline worry "free". This iteration kills you the same turn you use your apex, so it's a redline at expense of your whole apex kit, unless you heal first

I'll try on base deity

[teal kestrel]

High Tenacity at full Apex isn't a thing.

Cursed would've killed you if you'd had High Tenacity, anyway.

[thorn yacht]

I'm not using my screen recorder because I can't edit video, but I spent multiple turns at 1 hp

Try it yourself

[teal kestrel]

I did.

[thorn yacht]

The turn I used apex, I died

I'll try again

[teal kestrel]

I was at 1 hp with two zerks and died after using WoO.

[thorn yacht]

How did you have 1 hp with zerks

Oh, second chance?

[teal kestrel]

If you transition from one floor to the next with DoTs, you don't die; you'll stay at 1 hp.

[thorn yacht]

Ok, I'll see again

[teal kestrel]

That's an existing mechanic. If a DoT would otherwise kill you, but you transition between floors, you stay at 1 hp.

[prime mountain]

budget resurgence, don't miss

[finite berry]

Base:
-Apex3
-The Deity
-Demigod
-Staying Power
-UO
-Steadfast II
-Second chance

Ara:
-Apex (Ara)
-UO
-Deity (The Ara) - when wearing 2h, increase #hits on multihit spell by 50%(maybe +mag stat, mana saver?, non elemental attks?)
-Demigod (Ara) - 75% reverse blueline, start battle at 75% mana
-Steadfast II
-Second Chance
--Much Lower base HP, Higher Dex and MUCH higher Mana/mag/def/res--

Ursa:
-Apex (Ursa)
-UO
-Resurgence
-Deity (The Ursa) - when below 40% hp, 20% chance to double cast
-Staying Power II - reduced self damage from status, slightly longer positive status, shorter negative status
-Steadfast
--also high base HP pool to help dots, lower mana to balance --

Several of us in OL (5-10 regulars)took a couple hours to compile this idea. Ill add that this includes people who generally dont see eye to eye, and we were almost entirely aligned on this.

Take all/none/some whatever you think is best!

[pure cove]

Yup its all a proposition and something to give you ideas. General ideas are making Ursa redlining hard/complex but rewarding and Ara a sort of mana gilga and reward staying full isntead of dumping. Allows Deity to maintain versatility and such while giving the celestials much more specific and unique playstyles.

[subtle anchor]

Ursa wanting to redline but manage it is bizarre and also awesome

Ara being the 2h mage is also really cool. I'd love some variation of Staying Power even without t.buff procs there

Overall I guess color me intrigued

[teal kestrel]

I'd definitely say that has potential. Gives each Celestial its own distinct feel and aligns with/helps further define their identities. Might be some balancing work to do, but, all-in-all, pretty intriguing.

Maybe a semantic nitpick, but isn't Power of Gods normally a charged passive?

[finite berry]

Renamed to 'Demigod (Ara)'

[mystic basin]

I dunno about the 2H pigeonholing 👀

[finite berry]

Not pigeonholed at all. Dual wield and cast ultima to your hearts content

[teal girder]

Yeah I like these as long as it's not pigeonholing, or making it too focused on 100AL regulars with 200% of every conceivable piece of gear. Would be annoying if it becomes better for a few people doing a few specific builds they helped create but for nothing else.

For example for dursa would you be gimping yourself without redline? Realm exists for redlining , I actually went deity cos I dislike redlining

[shrewd cedar]

Hybrid monster for base? XD <- this is my favourite
Full purpleline boost below 50%? <- this too
BBond?
Something
Atm DAra & DUrsa have passive att/mag boost + insta apex dc, maybe att/mag 1-2 chance? (if att is higher > att1-2up, if mag is higher > mag1-2up)

Base have passive dc + insta dc
Don't leave us (base deities), please?

[coral rock]

Sounds like you should play beoH 🫠
I don't think we should rebuild a existing class. Base is fine where it is.

[shrewd cedar]

DUrsa - more tanky RS, less tanky gilga
DAra - more tanky here
Base - more tanky BeoH?

I've tried BeoH
Bit to Glassy for me
Prefer base because: auto dc, lugus and pet zerk Combo
It's my reality since 1st deity rework

RS and Beo was rebuilded xD why left deity?

[pallid stump]

Deity has always been hybrid. Having a celestial being more on that would have been logic. That's not the route NF took but is still something that could exists. Maybe for a potential 3rd celestial.

[coral rock]

I am into that. But don't touch base

[austere shuttle]

I hope so 🙂

[stoic harness]

do the apex skill use res or def? or is it always res?

[quick drum]

work as spell type?

Like other hybrid skills

[hollow reef]

Today's updates:

• Deity Ara's in-battle passive now scales with Apex spells used, for a total of 1.5x additional stats
• Deity Ursa's in-battle passive now scales only with HP lost
• All in-battle passives now display their current charge next to the character
• Apex spells now use either mag of att buffs, depending on whether the att/mag stat is higher
• 1000/2000 Blades Eventualus now a high m2 skill again
• Stat adjustments to hp/mana for Deity celestials

[subtle anchor]

So is Ara scaling only apex or is that in addition to blueline?

[fickle vault]

Nope

[indigo elk]

for now, only

[soft steeple]

Oh wow, all passives displaying is actually awesome

[limber lily]

1,5x as 150%?

[limber lily]

Only Apex currently

[hollow reef]

1.5x additional, yes

[limber lily]

I love you 🥰

If you visit czech, I'm inviting you to pinapple pizza 😬

[hollow reef]

i prefer your draught

[limber lily]

That will come together with it 😁

[pallid stump]

wait, it's 150% is it was 130% before ? it multiply my stats by x2.5 ?

[limber lily]

Yes

[finite berry]

On paper i guess this accomplishes the different playstyles. One wants to use apex abilities up to a 1.5x boost ( probably only useful in endless?), one wants to redline (useful everywhere)

What is the max effect of ursas passive? Equivalent to Resurgence?

[limber lily]

15% per apex skill used

So it fill slowly

Baby deity help

[pallid stump]

it's very long to charge, but once charged, lmao

[finite berry]

The max charge should arguably be a multiple of 15 then no? Weird to have the last charge only give 5%

[pallid stump]

dara definitely the move in endless in this state

[limber lily]

Maybe diff skills give diff amount, dunno

Endless for me is still like 2h/month. Orn easy...so yea, I will take it.

I would say biggest help for baby Deities.

[prime mountain]

ursa shows 100% (btw this is one of the things you can easily verify by playing the beta 😉 )

[pallid stump]

on the other side, dursa feels like a nerf only having redline.

[limber lily]

Both? You can enter raids with higher stats at begin. You won't get over 100 when mana decrease.

[pallid stump]

the dursa blueline + zerk is not possible anymore with that change

[limber lily]

Same at dungeons.

No change for towers. Tho more HP and ward is good for Tower.

[pallid stump]

but it's useless, that's not places you really need stats turn1

[limber lily]

Not like zerk+blueline was that helpful in any place? Idk

[mystic basin]

Will the stat increase on Ara stays on each dungeon floor? can't go in to test right now 😦

[pallid stump]

and you can't use sekhmet stance because it would kill you so dursa can't even use its own skills

[limber lily]

What...?

[quick drum]

amazing changes

[prime mountain]

it does stay between dungeon floors

dara orn endless must be 😋

[finite berry]

I said id test this afternoon haha 😅 at work was wondering if anyone else had tested yet and knows

[pallid stump]

give power of the god 2 to dursa and we good