#Collateral Damage, the way of the Warrior

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rain lodge
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Alright folks, Collateral Damage and new warrior gear adjustments have landed on live servers. Hopefully you got the chance to test it on Beta. What do we think? Remember to put bugs in #1084635587715281028

muted escarp
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Very Happy with the Early Game changes from what I've tested and theorized from Beta

verbal hornet
muted escarp
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I haven't had the time to test proc chance on CD1, no

verbal hornet
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It's likely the same throughout all levels so about ~17,5%

rain lodge
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How is the proc damage/ward cost on the lesser skills Yoshi? Did you test Iron Pauldrons vs Spiked Pauldrons?

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or Mythril?

verbal hornet
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tbh i only discovered iron spells like yesterday

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theres mythril?

rain lodge
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Yeah Atlas Vanguard

verbal hornet
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i tried to test ward damage on iron yester day but it wouldnt proc for me

knotty owl
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I didn’t realize that this was a page. But I put up a post on the gilga page to be a summary of rates found by the community

rain lodge
polar oasis
verbal hornet
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Well thats good to know

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Thanks for confirming this

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i had over 1100 trials on this and got 17,5%

polar oasis
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15% base, 15% spiked Pauldrons I believe

verbal hornet
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That makes sense, the buff icon on spiked pauldrons has three green triangles

polar oasis
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If you use Sea Axe and pauldrons things are awesome.
If you use Sea Axe, Chimera Axe and Pauldrons they are crazy

deft thunder
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Excited about what new BiS gear will come that buffs the spiked clothing skills

polar oasis
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I was playing around with Fomorian gear, sea axe + chimera axe in beta, using single target attacks and sometimes hitting three targets. Was super fun haha

verbal hornet
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Imagine Sumner gear on top of that

polar oasis
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Yeah was using Fomorian gear

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But only two pieces

verbal hornet
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While we are just happily throwing out numbers, you wouldnt have the increased proc chances for the weapons would you?

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i dont feel confident in testing anymore

polar oasis
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Not strictly per weapon, no.
I think the bonuses (for both rates and damage) range between 8-20%

verbal hornet
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Damage is easy to figure out, proc rate is the hard one

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Thanks👍

muted escarp
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Either I'm getting terribly unlucky, or CD1's proc rate is lower than 15%

polar oasis
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Easiest way to count it up is hits and procs. Divide procs by total hits

Can do it with training cactus

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It'll take several hundred hits to get the rate

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Apologies if that's exactly what you were doing 😂

muted escarp
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Exactly as I'm doing

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I'll have to stop here for now, but this is what I have for testing Collateral Damage 1

image.png
polar oasis
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Good sample

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Who has a Sea Axe ready to go for some Ultimastrikes shenanigans?

rain lodge
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I definitely do not have one ready 😄

polar oasis
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Haha me neither

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I'll be levelling one slowly though!

rain lodge
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I'll definitely be on the lookout for one

waxen crater
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Even though I can cast the stances on my Dorado, I cannot proc collateral, like warriors can't proc avidity, correct?

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I've probably dismantled upwards of 10 good ornate sea axes because formerly they were junk. 😔

polar oasis
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You shouldn't be able to currently, no

hot crescent
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Sea Axe being useful for anything at all is 10/10, best change

rain lodge
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Nautical themed Gilgamesh named Poseidon incoming

cursive vault
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Is this the normal arisen sea axe or the randgen one that people are looking for?

rain lodge
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CD wasn't on the randgen one in Beta, not sure if that got changed at the end or not

hot crescent
cursive vault
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You’re right, it’s not in the randgen one

hot crescent
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oh no 😱 odie pls fix

muted escarp
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It may not say it, but it might still do it

rain lodge
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Ninja axe

vague relic
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but for celestial axe there is nothing to add? like aguments or passive to axe like other weapon of warrior?

polar oasis
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I'd say this is about as early days as it can get for Collateral Damage

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I'd imagine down the track there will be amities and augments leaning into this and other things, like Avidity

vague relic
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oh ok

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ty

quaint whale
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Sad face BDA got dex nerfed from beta

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How do you know if CD procs ?

polar oasis
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It's an additional number that shows up, and it'll also show in the action log

quaint whale
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Aha

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Took a couple dungeons

polar oasis
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Have you got a Sea Axe, Chimera Axe, or Labrys?
Pairing those with Spiked Pauldrons should see the proc rates increase

rain lodge
quaint whale
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All of the above; was running ChimAxe.

verbal hemlock
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Arisen Typhon axe has dex of 130 now

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Do we have an idea of how much the Sea Axe increase % is?

vague relic
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chainshield and collateral dmg is very funny lol

verbal hemlock
quaint whale
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Didn't feel like it

regal solstice
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Pauldrons?

rain lodge
# regal solstice Pauldrons?

Spiked Pauldrons is a Gilgamesh skill, there are also Iron Pauldrons and Mythril pauldrons at Adept and Atlas Vanguard

solemn lodge
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Do the new "stance" of gilga also increase stat of leg/armor like the description wrote?

calm umbra
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So double chimera axe raises damage to 70%.and seems to increase rate to 30%? Was a small test size (100) and did end on a streak of procs so that's probably a bit high

verbal hornet
waxen crater
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Can SS proc CD?

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I'm hoping no but assuming yes...

verbal hornet
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It can yes

waxen crater
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Lol. A bit of snark, but, my understanding or something I've heard a lot is CD should open up non SS play styles for warrior, but if it procs for an already strong ability.. I guess I'm struggling to understand, this seems like an insane gilga buff that was unneeded (aside from the horde, if the goal is to bring "fairness" to horde content and move away from "mages are the thematic best at horde")

waxen crater
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If the goal is truly to make a more varied play styles available, shouldn't SS/CS be excluded from CD?

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Or if it's just a hella buff for Gilgas already strong ss/cs game, we'll call it that and whine for a nerf.

verbal hornet
knotty owl
vague relic
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Nah, Is a buff for a different approach for warrior

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Is very welcome

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Plus in my opinion i founs very funny to play with chainshield

dry magnet
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Just seems like a discount crit mechanic to me

cyan kayak
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Wait until CD gives redline to high anguish bosses. It will not be funny

dry magnet
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I was hoping they would expand more on abilities like Strikes of Ursa or Rhada stomp where they could defend while charging up and then do big damage. Maybe a passive that bolsters damage/effect chance the more turns taken to use said skill

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Something gameplay changing rather than bolstering

vague relic
cyan kayak
knotty owl
verbal hornet
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Fallen Beo doesnt have a redline passive

cyan kayak
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New Gilga have a new play stile, high endgame Gilga have a nice passive to enjoy. If you're between these two line...

cyan kayak
waxen crater
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I will wait with sceptical hope that it isn't, but I don't see how it can't be. Granted, early stages.
To Yoshis comment on they added a buff (to the buff...) on certain non SS weapons, that's great, but it still doesn't change the fact that it buffs current SS play...

knotty owl
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My same sentiment a week ago

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I trust that Odie will come back with a nerf hammer tho if it isn’t working as intended/ in the sandbox

worldly sky
knotty owl
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Actually WOL recovers more ward then 20%. So CD will be more effective on a wol proc

worldly sky
knotty owl
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Er WOL + passive is larger then 20%. Plus any augments, amenity, spec

knotty owl
worldly sky
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But that’s with the spiked greaves/Pauldrons

knotty owl
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Interesting. Looks like the cost of the skill is the final value. Unlike berserk, or mana recovery.

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Like the recovery on the second hit just didnt proc

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For hp or ward

primal herald
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Okay, im T9 warrior, been hell leveling in T9.
2 weeks ago, ive unlocked summoner to get experience faster and to kill raid faster for a chance of better drop for my warrior conterpart.
Im decently geared for my lvl 213. Im at 30k ward usually to give some number.
My weapon is a 174% demeter hallebarde. And im struggling with dmg.
Ive done some donjon this morning and, seriously, i prefered the way before. Loosing siphonward to get collateral dmg is a nerf for me. I loose more actions with mana potion than the collateral dmg can do. Ive done very little dmg with all the donjon ive did.
My dmg is too low, if a hit goes for 3k dmg and kt proc 1k .. yay .. but.. its not enough since it proc really not often

worldly sky
primal herald
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And, to be honest, ive tried a lot to get other weapon to no success 🙂

dry magnet
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Give TG back mana siphon 😦

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T9 a wreck enough as it is

primal herald
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Kinda sad, im doing at least 4x more dmg as summoner (not even unlocked t9 summoner and no gear)

dry magnet
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That's a topic in itself, prooobably not the best channel for it

knotty owl
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That is summoner early game though. Not sure that class should be used as the benchmark for gains in t9

primal herald
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Its my only other point of reference,

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I mean, im loosing dmg with the new patch as t9 warrior.

knotty owl
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With how avidity introduced turn ordered skills. Will there be a non crit CD skill that I can use to invest in the passive?

chilly maple
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Akarym is a fairly new players that gotten t9 just recently, from being t7 not too long ago (I helped him get back into the game)

primal herald
chilly maple
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So, it is fair to say, Attuner vs Warrior IS his only reference benchmark

knotty owl
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All g. But as a general note summoner is the best early game gains class.

chilly maple
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yeah

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but back to warrior classes

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Turn economy as a t9 Is important, since you don,t do thoses million of damages required to kill raids because they 1 shot you with their ultimates

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so losing turns to needing mana when it was not as much the case before, IS a big nerf to a tier where everything is much slower then T10

worldly sky
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But, I wonder if he would be as upset if his current weapon was buffed to proc CD more often. And if he used mythril Pauldrons/greaves with it as well.

Bc I believe the intention is that this is supposed to be strong enough to merit losing ward siphon

primal herald
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I would be as upset

worldly sky
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😂

primal herald
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Is the other weapon would do as much dmg ?

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The dmg is low, and 30% of it is still low

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I mean, even if it proc more than 50% of the time .. it would start to be interesting ..

chilly maple
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I think in hindsight the transition will be better for anyone that did not have a rotation getting invalidated completly

primal herald
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I could go into maths to get it all on paper and be sure on when the % of proc is been equal to loosing siphonward

chilly maple
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Makes me feel like the difference between TG and your T10 version will be as jarring as Nyx and RS was for me

primal herald
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But. As for raiding apolyon, i used to take 2-4 potions max and fighting it for 30-50min .. now, i would need to use a lot more potions.

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And, the dommage output would need to be really higher from that CD to make it up for the loss

verbal hemlock
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What amity are you using?

chilly maple
# verbal hemlock What amity are you using?

I would say ahead of the anwser, that T9 can't grab the good amity from the boards because they are tier locked, and it is extremely rare that someone post a t9 amity on them

primal herald
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Bracing poverty

chilly maple
verbal hemlock
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I got both of these before t10

Screenshot_20231019-1235522.png
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Which is basically siphon ward

primal herald
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Right, i forgot about them. Since i had siphon ward

verbal hemlock
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When I was t9 I doubled up on siphon ward with conduit and rarely used potions

chilly maple
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thoses are great yeah, I just don't like saying an amity fixes your class, since you can't just will into existance a specific one at t9, even at t10, other that more people look for them as t10

knotty owl
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It is also ok to use pots. I still use them with 35 ALs in gilga

primal herald
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Its fine to use them, the fact is, without siphon ward, t9 warrior will loose turn for mana pot and CD wont make it up.for the dmg loss

cursive vault
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Well, that should serve as another incentive to reach T10 then

dry magnet
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Not a good way to go about it. Game should be fun on the way to t10

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Otherwise you fall into the ffxiv problem of having a boring start and 300hrs of playtime just to get to where it's good

chilly maple
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"it gets fun at endgame" Is how you lose people at t8-t9's horrid grind if you don't just get carried

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and I don't consider being carried a solution to t8-t9

polar oasis
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In tier 9 if you want to get through raids (the longer content where siphon Ward is mainly used), you kind of need the defence offered by golems fortitude and barrier. In my Titanguard days, I still had to regularly mana potion anyway.

Nowadays there is the mana regen and siphon Ward amities, have you got either of those?

primal herald
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Siphonward is dead in t9 atm

chilly maple
polar oasis
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I'm trying to help, not attempting to be demeaning here 🙂

chilly maple
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They would be your surefire fix to the current issue if you do manage to get your hands on one

primal herald
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Got one that is bad .. kinda ..

polar oasis
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New mechanics always take a shift in playstyle, and it's hard to get used to immediately. That would be compounded if you didn't expect it.

The reality of CD is the potential is a lot greater than the bonus of siphon Ward, it's just very fresh so would feel raw and that's fair

dry magnet
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Not knocking on the viewset, but do you have recommendations on what to look for at T9 for adjusting to the new playstyle? Granted the amity is one thing but that's pretty RNG

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Cuz overall it seems to be a trade of consistency for random bonus

verbal hemlock
chilly maple
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Or play summoner mighty_mimic

primal herald
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Need gear with bonus on CD proc .. but, are they as good for ATK ..been told demeter hallebard was best T9 weapon, and, it does low dmg .. so, if i need to switch to a lower weapon that do.less dmg but proc sometime a 30% dmg, it wont make it up

chilly maple
dry magnet
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I want to help this guy lol

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Maybe kraken adornments?

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Get mana and res up the wazoo with jewels of the deep?

chilly maple
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I remember using them as a Nyx because mana sucked lol

dry magnet
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Might not be mana regen but with something like the crowns from arena, maybe a good chunk of mana might help

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It certainly isn't ward % like appy gems

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But might be good on raid loadout

primal herald
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I did post my gear and skillset in midgame help

polar oasis
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Warrior's Pavane is a big deal for mana and damage as melee once you hit level 210. That can help change your outlook a bit, it's a nice boon

deft thunder
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I danced my way to 230 atleast

dry magnet
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Thanks Dangy

worldly sky
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Dragon vengeance 3 was a good alternative to warriors dance/pavane for when I needed more penetration too, back in t7/t8/t9. Makes the longer raids easier when it’s 1/3 less buttons to click 🦧

worldly sky
# primal herald Need gear with bonus on CD proc .. but, are they as good for ATK ..been told dem...

That’s one of the best weapons if you’re getting ready for a SS build for t10, bc of the ward. It becomes immediately outclassed by t10 though. But I think instead you should look for highest attack weapons that give a CD bonus too.

That ward from Demeter could still come in handy if you attempt towers at t10 early. It could be a stepping stone to get your celestial axe sooner. Survival is key there.

Sorry if I’m taking away from the discussion everyone.

primal herald
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I did the math for CD at T9 .. its basic 4.5% dmg increase
Which mean, 22.22 round are needed to get over a missing round of atk to take a mana pot.

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The part about filling throught siphonward is harder to calc .. but, i could easily get 1 free atk each 2 round off siphon ward

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If not more

ornate sedge
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Yes, the CD dps isn't that great, even at t10

verbal hemlock
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In T9 there are 2 weapons that interact with CD, Arisen Wolf blade which increases the chance and Lifeshaker which boosts CD damage by a flat 10%

ornate sedge
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One need some gearing into it to be doable

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And I'm not switching my SS build for a CD build

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Not at this point

worldly sky
ornate sedge
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Well I almost hit the cap on SS3 without att+++

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So I don't think I'm dropping my survivability for CD

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I just hope they don't nerf SS play in some way to force us to play CD

verbal hemlock
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I see CD play as being something we can do that's not just SS

ornate sedge
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No one said that, to be clear

knotty owl
ornate sedge
knotty owl
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That was my worry about the passive before launch

primal herald
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No proc of CD of warrior pavane

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Been trying a lot and didnt got any proc of it. Even with a proc weapon

worldly sky
primal herald
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Nope

worldly sky
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you have to swap back to atlas vanguard for a brief moment to unlock the skill

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then youll have it on titanguard too

primal herald
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I mean, is it normal to not have any CD proc on warrior pavane ?

verbal hornet
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It should proc on every ~7th attack on average

primal herald
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Then, can someone else then me test it out ? I havent see any proc on warrior pavane .. and i have did a lot of warrior pavane

verbal hornet
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You can passivly increase the proc chance by using a Labrys or Arisen Wolfbane

primal herald
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Used arisen wolfbane

verbal hornet
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thats a lotta numbers

primal herald
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Might be me then

full hamlet
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Have you guys found any builds that rival ss damage? I feel like I cant let go of my celestial axe

verbal hemlock
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I'm currently upgrading a ornate tiamat/Typhon axe to try

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I want to see numbers for dual chimera axes

rain lodge
full hamlet
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I guess its more like can a CD focused build rival SS in raiding speed, not individual hits

rain lodge
worldly sky
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247 Base Gilgamesh, AL 18. Disciple of Finesse.

Lvl 3 standard arisen globe holder to test out single target strategy. It does not seem to proc enough to be worth it imo. Even with Globe holder + atlas stance + spiked Pauldrons. I will test out some sweeping next.

I tried posting the 6min video of struggling but I’m limited to 100mb files.

IMG_8635.png
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Seems to proc every time I try to WoL to recover ward tho lol 😂

rain lodge
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Base proc rates +Pauldrons should be 1/3rd yoru attacks

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Well almost 1/3rd

worldly sky
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And the bonus from the weapon too

rain lodge
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Yeah, unless Atlas+Spiked Pauldrons isn't stacking and instead just picking the highest one

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Load up your keep Cactus and do a bunch of hits or so, like 1000

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See what you work out to

worldly sky
jade leaf
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I don't know if it is the intended rates of CD to be that low, but IMO is a little bit low.
and the sad part the miss ratio because of the low dexterity om hilga is just depressing.
Even using ss/cs who is supposed to have a fixed ratio of 5%

worldly sky
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In BoF arena, Collatty D allows me to do more than 50% damage to another players health on my first turn FYI

hot crescent
worldly sky
hot crescent
ruby mortar
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it's time to add CD bonus to celestial augments

quaint whale
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Which Titan?

ruby mortar
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of course, Themis, warrior titan of law and balance

quaint whale
full hamlet
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what do ygs think of CD now that its been out for a few days?

quaint whale
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It's a much worse avidity 🙂

quaint whale
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I say that specifically because you do not need to build into avidity to make it work/happen imho. Avidity* just works; whatever you do to improve your build it gets better and doesn't work against your power.

Collateral Damage requires you to build into it through gear, much of which requires sacrifice to the key Stat for gilga, ward. When the odds get boosted, it damages the source of your strength, ward.

Just doesn't feel quite there yet, and doesn't address gilgas turn economy when compared to BeoA and RS.

Bear in mind I'm not a die hard gilga, something like "when hit by CD, your chance of extra turns being taken by your enemy is decreased substantially".

RPS of RPG

  • Pertains to BeoA double pet action as well.
knotty owl
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I think it is

1 An awesome concept

2 Still early days

3 Wildly buffs CS play to the point I find it much more exciting and engaging then other builds

  1. Doesnt offer the same juice that other class passives do as Dro noted above.
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But I am happy to wait and see how augments, gear options, and amenities move the needle 😃

dry magnet
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Pseudo crit that ultimately just adds more to a gameplay loop that needed the rework more than just extra numbers

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It's the same frustration I have with bloodpact on the summoner line. It's heretic the long way around. I still feel like warriors do not stand out uniquely among the melees

polar oasis
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Avidity is turn disruption, where you get the option to choose another skill. Collateral Damage is splash damage executed in the same turn. I don't get the comparison.

Pseudo Crit sounds like an over-simplification of single target encounters also, so I'm guessing that's a raid reference?

For me - CD has improved the QoL experience for horde encounters drastically, and is allowing me an opportunity to play around with non-SS builds in raids more than before.

With the additional dex on gear now also, I'm able to hit more targets.

Very excited for the gearing options to help out coming soon ™️

full hamlet
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would you guys say that adding an increased chance for cd on questing/trialing axes would be too extreme?

dry magnet
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So while I agree it is an oversimplification, it (to me), functions the same exact way crit does. You have a random chance that you can influence to deal an additional amount of damage that you can influence. You're going to have gear that changes that. You got toggle buffs for it and it sort of makes things more possible. But at the same time, when looking at other classes that got literal game changers. From Beo's Bestial Bond that is awesome for follower/player interactivity, to RS's Avidity that provides safer gameplay and breathing room or the ability to go full ham when you can, both of these are unique and fits the overall...flavor of the class in question. They don't have to gear into it to really get to play with it. It's just a new part of them. Gilga's base CD, while definitely helpful, doesn't...shine (to me), I guess.

polar oasis
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CD functions really well in practice. I can do horde boss anguish 45~ now, never could before.

The take (Hellmo) feels a little like you're not playing with it actively each day - as Gilga was already not awful, it just needed a tiny little something. Giving it something as strong as avidity might have (I think) been too much.

CD, especially with upcoming gearing options is and will be fantastic flavour

full hamlet
polar oasis
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Just in an airport security queue, will post as a reply after I'm through

polar oasis
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Amity is ward recovery and positive status duration

dry magnet
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Actively each day? No. Especially not this month lol (Hospital+Covid is a fantastic combo great for your health! mimic ). But in this case I'm wasn't calling out the strength of it. But rather the feel of it? Like I call out those passives from RS/Beo because it gave a stronger feel for them. You pick Beo and you have a literal bond with the companion that shares in your triumphs. You pick RS and you're quick, deadly, putting every ounce of your life right down to dancing on death's patio. You pick Gilga and you uhhhh...hit things really hard (sometimes).

GS's draw to me was that it was gameplay that stood out, and why I stick with the builds that I do despite knowing there is literally every other way to play it that is better. Part of the appeal for Gilga for me is that unlike my experiences for Gilga, I felt somewhat rewarded for taking my time. Build up the ward, get the regen good and going, then it's clobberin' time. Warriors in an RPG sense always seemed like the berserkers, the master at arms, the unbreakable walls. Ursa def gets the master at arms feel down. But the other two is what I was kind of hoping more to see. Hence, my oversimplification. I already got roll the dice chance builds. I crave for the day a class that excels in not needing any of that comes forward.

polar oasis
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Subjectivity will always exist in this space, that's ok.

Definitely improved my quality of life daily as a Gilga/Warrior player. There's no question

dry magnet
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Agreed! It's still an improvement and absolutely not knocking that

full hamlet
polar oasis
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I tend to lean into chance over damage for CD in most cases, so just use Pauldrons.

I have some non-SS raiding builds that utilise both chance and damage (Pauldrons and Greaves) by way of refilling my ward with a follower, it's really neat

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I have this Ursa build that exploits both the blights and DB from Gorynych to allow me to maximise CD procs and also increase Ultimastrikes damage at the same time. It's really fun

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I use full follower AI augments in my celestial axe, and a Sea Axe off hand to increase proc chance more. Would use Chimera Axe...... If I had one!

full hamlet
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Honestly might play around with follower augmnents

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I threw a couple prom feet to counterract ward drain from pauldrons but I dunno if its worth it

polar oasis
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Yeah leaning into them for ward recovery synergises greatly with CD procs, let's you keep going. It's a new and interesting way to play for sure

polar oasis
jade leaf
quaint whale
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Does CD help baby gilga ? Do they even do enough damage for it to make a difference?

CD lacks the ''cool" factor that realm and beo get, as others have stated.

polar oasis
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Unsure how it couldn't. It's an additional passive they never existed prior, that can only increase options early on.

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Unsure I understand, is the inference that it is a negative impact?

quaint whale
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No.

polar oasis
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Cool is subjective. I think this is cool, you don't have to agree. That's fine 🙂

quaint whale
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It's simple.

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Extra damage on your attacks.

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But you have to build into it to see it shine.

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Versus Avidity DC and Follower action, just feels flat.

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Not negative; still early.

polar oasis
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Subjective again - to me building into things is infinitely more interesting than not having to at all

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Especially given there's stuff coming for it 🙂

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You have to build into swash passive, which is cool!
Dorado passive, cool!
Beo Hydrus passive, cool!

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This falls into that category

quaint whale
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You build into Dorado? Um what

polar oasis
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Dex

quaint whale
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Dex doesn't help much 😐

polar oasis
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I'll get a screenshot of the passive description for you

quaint whale
#

I've seen it; and have 4.9k dex

polar oasis
polar oasis
quaint whale
#

But it doesn't actually do anything; and avidity does not rely on it.

cursive vault
polar oasis
#

Regardless it's ok to have subjective views on things.

The objective part is quality of life is improved here, unless the inference is that it has gotten worse then I'm not sure what the push is

quaint whale
#

Maybe something better for the 2nd worse classline ? I dunno 🙂

#

Heretic sucks worse mightiest_mimic mighty_mimic

polar oasis
#

I can't really read the tone right now to be honest, feels super passive aggressive but that's not normally you 😅

cursive vault
#

The 2nd worse classline? Gilga was already performing well before the changes, this just makes it shine where it used to have a hard time: horde content

quaint whale
polar oasis
#

Gilga was very much performing well, just a little something for it to help it along, and build some different playstyles is nice 🙂

quaint whale
#

I'll await further changes to kit options, I understand comparing the various class line playstyles isn't productive, but the general consensus (in my limited circles) that this isn't enough of a unique or fun class identity for the warrior line.

We have skills & gear that hit extra enemies already.
We have passive that allow us to choose additional targets.
We have passive that double pet act.

Then we get a random extra bit of damage (40% top which requires 2 turns to buff though skills)

Realm avidity gets a chance at 100% extra damage, healing or buffing.
BeoA gets a chance at 100% extra pet action.

#

I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't seem like enough? But maybe that's just me 🙂

polar oasis
#

If the ask is that collateral damage be removed in lieu of something else (which is what I think I'm reading?), I don't think that's an option.

Let's see how gearing leans into this stuff more.

For what it's worth, Gilgamesh (and warriors generally) weren't performing badly at all. It's was good for Odie to look at this, and it does improve areas of gameplay for warriors for sure!

quaint whale
#

100% its better (compared to the non existant passive) 🙂, and removal isn't my goal. Improvement to the passive, to put it into the same "cool" and "fun" levels as avidity or Auriga, or "useful" levels like deity DC proc.

#

Subjective ofc ^

#

I'm a lowly al14 gilga

deft thunder
#

After we got CS I never really missed or thought we needed anything like CD, I thought we needed an aoe sweep like attack that didn't need a specialisation.

Now that we got CD I think that it's much more fun than an aoe attack

quaint whale
#

How do you take down high anguish berserk Fallen heroes with Gilga ?

cursive vault
#

SS1 I’d imagine

polar oasis
#

Berserks are harder. Exploit then SS1.
It's reasonable enough to expect losses at high anguish I think. I certainly don't expect to win them all

jade leaf
jade leaf
#

As the right now towers and dungeons are the main horde conten.
cd on dungeons: good. (But only if running high level of anguish, otherwise better options out there)
cd on towers : no

cursive vault
#

CS + finesse spec is already a good tower setup

#

What do gilga players feel that the class is currently lacking? What content does gilga struggle in atm?

jade leaf
cursive vault
jade leaf
cursive vault
#

I mean, what class has a better time in towers if we don’t count finesse? CS is still the best way to do towers even before finesse was factored in
Don’t really agree with the dungeon AoE argument, sweep + CD seems to be performing pretty well, CS + CD for high anguish as well

#

Orn endless I’d agree, gilga seems to struggle with it from what I’ve seen

jade leaf
#

High anguish sweep, really? How high are you talking?

#

Because pretty sure anguish 50, and sweep is not really clearing everything.

cursive vault
#

Sweep for low anguish, CS for high

#

Sorry if that wasn’t clear

#

Don’t really think any class is clearing high anguish with full AoE, be that sweep or mages dance

jade leaf
#

oh 0k, that make sense

#

And just to be clear I believe gilga is at good spot right now,(could be better yes, but.....) the only real problem is orn endless.
(CD still a work an progress)

rich leaf
#

Name any class that can sweep clear at anguish 50?

quaint whale
#

Creator

cursive vault
jaunty glacier
#

I find BoF spec to be significantly more impactful for gilga's ability to be competitive in horde play than CD. CD is a nice bonus though. Where CD would really shine as a true boost to horde would be on ursa sweep play if the stances didn't deactivate once ward runs out. As is though zwei simply cannot hold a candle to BoF. Like it isn't even close and that kinda makes me sad. I really wanted to be able to build into ursa aoe, but it just will never be competitive under the current system.

#

CD in non-horde play really is just an inconsistent but welcome bonus. Any amount of building into it for single target play other than maybe ultimastrikes makes it effectively worse than just letting it happen passively and playing standard gilga SS.

#

Take my opinion with a grain of salt as a deep endgame player

#

I like CD but like Dro mentioned, it's a little meh

#

That being said I'm looking forward to more gearing options and seeing how this gets built upon and am very optimistic

#

🍻

knotty owl
jaunty glacier
#

My personal feeligs are that high AL is basically a must to really feel good playing gilga when wanting to clear challenging content

#

And this really comes back to SS play since it is significantly more boosted than other play styles in relation at AL

#

And you still really need to lean into realm for efficient orn farming no matter how high your gilga al gets

knotty owl
#

I think ultimately this was what a goal was for CD. And as Dro stated above, CD is actually a really great thing for high AL players. The gold watch for gilgas you might say 😂

#

The reason I think CD is a treat for endgame is because it modifies final damage. So chip damage that early gilga does, will push mobs into passive, and not kill them for example. And when, as Dro said earlier, there are classes that just go again. CD doesn’t shore the gap between new/aged gilgas. CD does feel godly on my 35 AL gilga.

#

I know the studio is in the works on some gear options. I know that such a huge change like this is hard to roll out at once. But I just would like to provide feedback where I am at with my favorite classline because I feel like we didnt meet the goals pined on this thread to improve gilga with CD

dry magnet
#

Even with gear on the way, I hope it is gear that is not event locked.

#

Fomo items just means new gilgas suffer more.

knotty owl
#

Just looks at Rhada. Poor blooded mess that he is

jaunty glacier
#

Celestial augments could be a good option to gear into CD to really provide a lot of personal choice in diversification of build styles. For better or for worse, celestial weapons almost completely outclass normal ones, and there are a lot of unused or even unusable augments that could be looked at

dry magnet
#

Well not just that. Look at the state of GS. The best summons and items that fix the glaring issues of playing the class are all fomo. Strong raid speed? Spiritgarm. Fast gauntlets? Blood Garm. Second best? Buggane? Event locked. Faster summons? Locked to riftfall. You have to play the game at t10 for a year to be at the same level mechanically (not stats/damage/clear speed/yadda yadda yadda). Am hoping CD doesn't end up the same way

jaunty glacier
#

Agreed

quaint whale
#

I'd like to throw an idea out here;

Would having a higher opportunity to proc CD when your ward is full or empty be a welcome addition?

dry magnet
#

I was thinking swap out warrior's mana bar for rage/fury that you build. The more full the bar, the more you proc CD

quaint whale
dry magnet
#

Something interactive with your gameplay rather than additive

#

Exactly

jaunty glacier
#

I could totally dig that

dry magnet
#

Heck you could have berserk buffs increase your rage passively

jaunty glacier
dry magnet
#

Spend ward on abilities, gain rage from burning ward or getting hit/dealing damage, etc etc

knotty owl
#

It would also play into multi turn moves that turn into a nice, mildly aoe hit. Upward strike, rhada stomp, ursa strikes, ect

dry magnet
#

Exactly

quaint whale
#

Ursa RAGE

dry magnet
#

That would be a change on the same level as BB and Adivity

chilly maple
# dry magnet Well not just that. Look at the state of GS. The best summons and items that fix...

I agree, as a RS we have the same issue, Riftfall is such a huge thing for us. Now with that said, I think it is more a thing about the game needing a refresh of None-event raids and bosses. Towers was a good step towards that with weapons. Hopefully either new year round content or refresh can offer new ways to have good gear that is not tied to events without making events worthless

#

I am saving soo many riftfall tank raid for my friend who's a t9 titanguard so he can get his spiked shield

verbal hemlock
#

Love the idea of it but it's definitely a big rework that'll take a lot of time/effort

dry magnet
#

I mean my working idea was swap mana cost to ward cost, or go bold and make it an HP cost for Ursa. Or go full psycho and remove the ability cost all together but that'd be a tad strong (although with mana siphon already a thing...is it?)

knotty owl
#

This is a buddy of mine’s BeoH build. This is also something that a passive would hopefully change. Ward to feel more impactful on gilga in some way.

The power creep and accessibility of JOCs has place ward as a stat most folks out side gilga classline can use effectively (defined here as clearing horde content in towers or anguish dungeons with chained shield) even with the reduced effectiveness. Again just proving feedback that a “nudge” is not competitive in the meta rn

image0.jpg
#

Note: the build above is using selean hands in axe, and tamer spec

hoary solar
#

I haven't caught up on this thread, but I just wanted to say that I think end-game gilga is in a fantastic spot right now. Thank you to the dev team and members of the community involved in bringing this update to life

#

we can finally anguish effectively, and tower clearing is a breeze. please do not nerf us

#

I've still been unable to effectively utilize the CD bonus items in late game builds, but they provide more flexibility and options for folks just coming into the classline that are not well geared yet, which is always welcome

#

I think the gilga class is about to get a lot more popular in the coming months or even days

sudden hollow
#

Catching up on this thread and damn Dangy dropping hints right in our laps that there's huge choice potential for CD. Cd is a straight QoL buff for all warrior classes before they can even access the spiked shield and has plenty of room to be viable as a separate gameplay loop to shield bashing. It also makes other followers more viable which I appreciate

ornate sedge
#

RS doesn't have to grind any gear for high tenacity and avidity

deft thunder
#

A game like this without gear grinding? I am quite sure that I signed up for gear grinding when I started playing this

ornate sedge
cursive vault
#

High tenacity is basically necessary to make resurgence even useful, and that play style means you need to gear into every immunity possible. Let’s not forget RS was massively underperforming before avidity was introduced

ornate sedge
#

Ok, so how about gilga having a passive to not consume ward using ward-based skills when at full ward (passive skill, not augments)

#

That is high tenacity

#

I'm not asking for it

#

I'm just comparing CD vs High tenacity

#

As anyone can see, CD is a joke compared to HT

#

Put avidity in the balance and tell me CD is a okish buff for gilga

#

In pair other classes had

cursive vault
#

Gilga was performing pretty well before CD, while RS (already with HT) was super underperforming before avidity. So avidity being better than CD would technically just help balance those 2 classes out

#

I truly don’t see how people are unhappy with a great QoL buff to an already strong class

brisk quest
#

Because CD is just extra damage similar to a crit. Yes in horde it can hit an additional target which is great. But overall it's not very exciting and I feel helps ursa more than base or herc versions. As others have stated if we build into it with new items it will likely make us lose in other areas that are important. Ursa will be ok to lose ward for more CD but regular gilg and herc? I wouldn't want to lose any ward at all for a chance at extra damage when I'm going to do more damage with more ward anyway

#

In it's current state is it a buff? Yeah, is it helpful? Sure. Is it fun/exciting though like stealing turns and bonds with your pet? Not even close. The reason most of us bring those up is because those are the last two classes to get looked at and they are wildly popular and many of my friends and kingdom members are swapping to those classes. Not one person on my friends list has swapped to gilg after the changes

cursive vault
#

People will always tend to swap to what’s new and/or more exciting. Could CD be more interesting/dynamic as a mechanic? Probably. Still, it’s a pretty nice buff that makes horde (a very common endgame loop) much simpler for gilga. I’m sure NF is aware of the criticism that you and many others have pointed out and will be looking to address it

rich leaf
#

Also to people who are comparing gilga ward play to rs or beo redline

#

Have they compared survivability?

vague relic
#

I don't know but for me, the celestial class need to me more strong the normal class! I don't like the celestial class of gilga because you lost alot for my opinion to choose that, for now is better base gilga he have everything, stedfeast,syphon ward, bastile, cd is perfect, i don't understand why i need to go Herc or ursa to lost so much for a poor differents! Farming tower for hour for this class is not worth, only for the chainshield make gilga easy life for horde boss dungeon, nothing more.

rich leaf
#

Celestial classes are supposed to be sidegrades not an "upgrade"

#

According to nf

vague relic
#

Sidegrades? For what? Why i need to use Herc instead of basegilga? Why i need to lost so much for poor bost of dmg?

rich leaf
#

Herc gets a boost to ward due to its passive

#

And Ursa is the 2h specialist, possibly the best class for pvp defence

vague relic
#

But you lost steadfeast and syphon for 15% of more ward from your second hand?

#

In my opnion is not worth

rich leaf
#

Not 15%, it depends on the shield

vague relic
#

Ok and?

#

If i need to use SS build i prefer more GilgaBase the Herc

verbal hornet
#

It doesn't depend on the shield, its a set 15% stat boost

rich leaf
#

And they're fine with the class

vague relic
#

I dont see "alot of people" raiding of herc

#

i see people go away for gilga

#

from*

rich leaf
#

Try to understand, gilga class be it base or herc weren't weak to begin with

#

Cd seems to be a fine addition

fading pumice
#

I do use GilgaH for raids that doesn't apply deliberating status and it does hit alot harder. For annoying raids that give tons of status, I'll go back to base Gilga.

vague relic
#

I understand what you speak, but be realistic for a moment, i take 15% of of my second hand e bastile 2 (litterally more dmg not to much) for lost steadfeast, syphon

#

Maybe i am stupid (probably) but i don't see the good trade from that

rich leaf
#

I've used to herc too and it does quite well

#

Especially in towers

#

In short fights where you don't have to care a lot about debuffs

vague relic
#

In short fight

rich leaf
#

Each class has its own weakness and strength

vague relic
#

now gilga speedrun fight, because he take every debuff?

#

Continue i don't like that

#

Gilga is burn to long fight

#

and now with herc you need to prey bacause if you fight to long take so much debuff to spam ambrosia and panacea?

#

No thanks

rich leaf
#

Namely beoh and rs

vague relic
#

RS is literally untouchable more life lost, is hard to aplied a debuff on him

rich leaf
#

Not exactly

vague relic
#

Bruh beoh literalli don't nothign the pet attack

rich leaf
#

Spell like miasma doesn't care about dex

vague relic
#

if he take all debuff where is the true problem?

rich leaf
rich leaf
#

Anyway this is supposed to be gilga chat so let's keep it that way

vague relic
#

redline? for what'

rich leaf
#

For damage?

vague relic
#

well not exacly, you can spam little mana potion and the magic is done

#

not dmg

#

no redline

rich leaf
#

What if you take a debuff in the buffing phase?

#

How are you supposed to buff then?

vague relic
#

bruh in buffing phace after you buff yourself if you use mimic or bear mighty you use panecea

#

ythere is not problem in buffing face .-.

rich leaf
#

With all respect, I don't think you have played those classes

#

Anyway I think gilga is in a fine spot rn

vague relic
#

YEs base gilga

#

not the other

rich leaf
#

They are imo

vague relic
#

Not herc we can continue this discussion along as you want (that is point of this topic) but herc is not worth

#

And cd in my opionion is not the buff need gilga when start to use SS

fading pumice
#

CD is fine. If you want, you can start another discussion for the classes.

vague relic
#

Cd is very well for low tier warrior to help him alot

rich leaf
#

Cd seems to be an addition more for Ursa play rather than herc or gilga

vague relic
#

Ok but you need to add a differents passive for Herc and Base gilga

rich leaf
#

They are already strong

#

Ursa was underperforming compared to those two

vague relic
#

umh maybe we need another topic

brisk quest
#

@rich leaf which Gilgamesh do you play as

rich leaf
#

Mostly ursa

#

But its not my main class

#

I occasionally run towers with herc too

worldly sky
#

I’ve tried to build into CD with weapons like Arisen sea axe, arisen axe of typhoon, and the axe of the chimera. Nothing was better than what I was already doing with c axe.

I tried sweeping while dual wielding c axe and arisen sea axe. Still extremely better on diety than my AL19 gilga. No reason to do a sweep build on gilga for me yet.

I tried to use spiked pauldrons and spiked greaves, and found they always hurt me instead of helping.

The only benefit I could feel, was when CD would proc, while NOT using spiked pauldrons or greaves. Basically just doing what I normally do with a 5-10% chance of tiny extra damage. But since I’m doing spiked shield play, I don’t even need that 5-10% damage when it does proc. This damage only would’ve helped me for non spiked shield gameplay.

I do not find that any playstyle other than spike shield is viable atm at my AL19. Still happy with gilga but very saddened by my CD experience so far. I wasted a ton of materials I shouldn’t have wasted trying to make the builds work.

Curious what I should be doing differently in order to make CD useful. Maybe CD’s purpose is to help smooth over the aoe play once I double my AL?

ornate sedge
#

Two types of players are very satisfied with CD:

those who don't play Gilga and the high ascended gilgas.

The first wants gilga to stay bad; the second don't care

#

Most guys here saying gilga was already strong don't even play gilga 🤥

cursive vault
#

You’re right, gilga was super bad according to NF data

image0.jpg
#

It was only topping everything except for pvp defense 🤷‍♂️

verbal hornet
#

im not surprised that the tank class is surviving content tbh (except for pvp where the graphs are actually useful)

cursive vault
#

Still, it’s not really fair to say that gilga is bad/underperforming

verbal hornet
vague relic
#

CD for gilga is not what we need

#

CD is good for low tier level not for gilga

rain lodge
vague relic
#

Something different then that, not something have low proc for make a little more dmg

#

something consistent for make gilgamesh unique like avidity for rs

rain lodge
#

And I think CD is a nice bonus for 230'ish Gilga's running Guarding Strikes or WP builds

hot crescent
vague relic
#

Ok but for who play SS what is the point to have this passive?

rain lodge
#

That was part of the point, not to make SS play that much better

#

It makes it a bit better but also adds depth outside of SS

vague relic
#

But why i need to have this passive? If i play SS what i need for this?

#

is a passive don't use

hot crescent
#

If you play SS, do you need a buff at all?

vague relic
#

Isn't not the buff problem

#

Take example Herc ok? tell me the purpose of thsi passive?

#

to make 40% more dmg with 30% proc?^

rain lodge
#

In my personal opinion Herc is just fine outside of not having Steadfast,

vague relic
#

Ok, but CD is a true improve to gilga?

#

For me no

rain lodge
#

It's certainly more of an improvement than nothing

vague relic
#

is agood improve for T9

rain lodge
#

Also Yoshi ir rocking it for Horde Anguish

#

So it has to help as that was nearly impossible before

vague relic
#

CD for help for take some time a third enemy?

rain lodge
#

It does require BoF spec though to really maximize it, which spec locked stuff makes me a bit sad but eh.

jade leaf
vague relic
#

I don't like thatm Gilga lost a passive for another passive useless in my opinion

#

For me CD is good in low tier and t9 take CDV and gilga and other take another passive

rain lodge
#

We'll have to agree to disagree then, I'd hardly call CD useless. Does it gain everything I wanted? No, but it's an interesting mechanic we are really only beginning to scratch

hot crescent
#

Thoughts on Gilga Herc (being emblematic of "big SS style") losing CD specifically, in exchange for something else? Even just getting mana siphon back?
All other warriors including Gilga Base/Ursa keeping CD.

rain lodge
#

And I am sure NF will tune it if needed come the next balance cycle when we have more experience and data

quaint whale
#

I'm a shitty gilga but Herc is better than base gilga

#

Just imho

#

All that off hand boost

vague relic
#

CD is usless for who play ss style, but before achive that CD is good for pavane and guardian strike

rain lodge
vague relic
quaint whale
#

Depends on your shields

rain lodge
#

By the time I equip 2 immunity accessories I have less ward than I do on base

quaint whale
#

I get like 30% extra on my best one

vague relic
jade leaf
rain lodge
#

Ursa definitely needing something

vague relic
#

Herc playstyle is literally SS

quaint whale
vague relic
quaint whale
vague relic
#

in my opinion is not worth

quaint whale
#

When you aren't getting hit with debuffs and speed is the name of the game it's better

#

CS herc is better than CS base gilga

#

Purely pve

rain lodge
#

Chain shield Ursa is the best 😄

quaint whale
#

I don't have Ursa yet

#

I'm a shitty gilga

rain lodge
#

For towers anyway

vague relic
#

For Me Herc new a different passive then CD

#

and base gilga

quaint whale
#

It should get the Kevin Sorbo passive

vague relic
#

i don't know what is this

quaint whale
#

Lmao it's a TV show actor from the 90s

#

Played hercules

vague relic
#

ooh ok

quaint whale
vague relic
#

Oh yes with xena sometime

#

okok

rain lodge
#

So what passive would you give Herc and base gilga instead of CD?

vague relic
#

Example: Spike wound, every time you attack with SS you have chance to Open a deep wound on anemy, they will take increased damage as long as the wound remains open

#

another

rain lodge
#

Isn't that basically just what CD does? They have a chance to take extra damage?

vague relic
#

Gilga the mountain ;Every single Defend buff like (D+ D++ and R+ R++) give 5% increased dmg

quaint whale
#

The Passive I'd like to see on Gilga Herc

Iolaus Effect

vague relic
rain lodge
quaint whale
#

+1 to charioteering

vague relic
#

like 5 stack of wound you increased dmg from 20%

#

or if you stuck 4 defend buff increased the dmg for 20%

#

Rage Spike Shield; you Hit enemy with violence force to make extra dmg and pay this with HP

hot crescent
# rain lodge Extra damage against Hydra's? :p

extra damage against nemean lions, lernaean hydras, ceryneian hinds, erymanthian boars, stymphalian birds, cretan bulls, and cerberus.
plus boosts to stable cleaning, horse and cattle rustling, underwear snatching, and apple-picking.

vague relic
#

lol

#

for you what is good pasive? what is for you a good idea?

polar oasis
#

Just for some clarity for folks - there are not new passives coming for *Warriors (not to be confused that this is strictly a Gilgamesh addition). There is however gearing coming to synergise with Collateral Damage, some already in the base game content with more stuff coming.

I read through all the comments here from the last day since I checked in and there was some needless heat toward each other - let's aim to keep it civil or we can simply close this thread.

#

We'll see how things play out over time - but yes can confirm that Gilgamesh more specifically was performing pretty well already, this wasn't aimed at reimagining the entire class, or classline.

#

There is gearing options coming, I don't know why there's doubt of that. I won't be arguing it 😅

quaint whale
brisk quest
worldly sky
#

Thank you for the update dangy dude. I’m hyped to see how new/reworked gear changes CD

knotty owl
hot crescent
cyan kayak
#

Can we have 2 or 1 more skills slot? That would clarify some negative thoughts about CD (mine include). 2 additional slots can cover CD proc rate and damage with the new skills and add a survivability issue without the gear rush

#

Wich is not positive, imo

#

Any lack passive performance should be covered by gear

#

But it is what it is

hot crescent
#

@knotty owl quick work-up

ascensionsbyclass.PNG
#

looks like yes, warrior and god are more ascended on average. mage shortly behind, then thief, valhallan, and then summoner least ascended.

#

rough estimates 😅

knotty owl
#

Thanks King!

hot crescent
#

||there we go||
we didn't ask for exact ascension number(s).
assigning none->0, 1-20->10, 21-50->35, and 51+->70 we get an average ascension like:

warrior    21.79723502
mage    19.68646865
thief    18.2208589
valhallan    17.36156352
summoner    14.54545455```
rotund moat
#

I'd be willing to bet that the success metrics associated with gilga compared to something like realm is the power and ease of use of steadfast combined with second chance. Especially at the lower ALs before people really settle in to their classes

You essentially get two free accessory slots (and potentially boots/chest slots) compared to realm, and even if you mess up a good chunk of the time you get your second chance. obviously doesn't account for speed/turn economy in the NF charts, but the clearing success feels like an obvious answer

knotty owl
knotty owl
rotund moat
#

I have a feeling the graph hasn't shifted that much when viewed as an aggregate. The realm graph for AL25+ is probably waaaaaay better now than it was before (really hoping we get charts with ascension breakdowns next time)

#

avidity and bestial bonds are both really strong, when used correctly and with intention. They don't really do all that much to just solve the things that killed "noobs" before (like dying to burn while redlining)

balmy skiff
#

I followed the DC discussion during the previous month, I currently have lv 250 and AL40, and in my opinion DC came to be an improvement that did not have the desired effect. unfortunately today I'm waiting for the puppy to return to the bestiaries to become a beo or summoner with the heart.

hoary solar
#

How much CD proc rate increase do weapons like labrys / axe of the chimera / arisen axe of typhon provide?

knotty owl
#

Not sure if the augments are over tuned, but CD feels awesome now 😃

full hamlet
knotty owl
hollow flame
#

Could you do somescreen recordings ? boggers

fading pumice
#

Would it be better if you put those adornments into Arisen Cursed warrior gears?

knotty owl
verbal hemlock
knotty owl
#

Ursa

verbal hemlock
#

How is it compared to SS?

knotty owl
#

What do you mean? Like what values are you comparing. for instance SS play is some of the safest play in the game

queen forge
#

Funny thing is when axe of gilgamesh didn't get increase cd chance or dmg while they have the name of gilgamesh and used by fallen gilgamesh..

verbal hornet
#

Thats because CD isn't meant to be a Spiked Shield buff

queen forge
#

Fair enough from ward bonus point before hybrid dmg start overtake it..

jade leaf
#

I been testing the CD boosters, and have to say really awesome for clearing horde content with no high anguish levels, (towers, dungeons) and not needed a specialization for that.

#

So yeah big thanks to the NF team for implementing this feature to the warriors family.🎉 keep up team much love.

#

Now we only need a way to run endless with orn gear, then we are set.

knotty owl
#

If that is the only missing thing for gilga, I am pretty happy after CD

#

The meta had been swapping to realm/heratic for orns anyways

rain lodge
#

I'm wondering if I can get enough bonus in my orn gear from the adorns to make horde boss normals viable without having to run a shield and used Chained shield but haven't had time to play with it yet

split surge
hoary solar
#

Found and diagnosed a bug with CD: #1170505682827616407 message

waxen crater
#

Found a "feature"...

Not being recording, I couldn't see, but I assume that CD doesn't show up as an extra turn in the action bar, but it appears to function like one.

Screenshot_20231105-130922.png
verbal hornet
#

Odie knows about it

queen forge
#

The question is how often did it trigger..
It need a lot of sacrifice in terms of damage if using tree nut..
And only viable against low hp class..
Which is different from 2 times pet act or avidity..

cursive vault
#

I’ve seen a few gilga ursa playing crit builds that lean into the CD adorns. They were getting pretty quick turn 1 victories

#

Turn 1 CD definitely merits some attention imo, akin to the avidity and BeoA double turn changes

rich leaf
#

What was the adorn proc buff? 3%?

#

So considering that you have 24 slots you can get 72% chance to proc cd with those nuts

sharp spire
#

that's pretty nuts

queen forge
#

In a tree way..

waxen crater
#

Yea it's pretty annoying, esp easy win for them since my bof build is swashy, so extra squishy for that CD proc. Was one guy, faced 6-7 times over a farm session and it procced every time, 1 turn fight. They had enough FS that I never went

queen forge
#

It's even more annoying if they pick swash too..

cursive vault
queen forge
#

Up to 30 slot if using tarnished crown and rng gear from dungeon..
With 24 nuts, it still has 6 slot free..
Labrys has 14 slot, which probably they will put it in all ferocious bull's eye or gorgon eye..
52% from weapon and 3% or 5% as gilga ursa wearing their favorite weapon (?)
It's really high..

#

And nuts come with dex, which is make them little bit slippery..

upbeat marlin
upbeat marlin
verbal hornet
#

Yep, i think the main problem is that CD proc is considered as a second turn so it's probably hard to fix

cursive vault
#

Just make it not proc turn 1 like they did with the other problematic passives

queen forge
#

Or give all participants some kind of invulnerable shield like ward turn that can prevent any damage on first turn?

upbeat marlin
#

I just lost on turn zero lmao, never even got to go. brutal

Screenshot_20231105-221843_1.png
#

Oh, again. Hmm, if ya can't beat em, guess ya join em. Time to make an exploit build too

knotty owl
#

This just in! BeoA players want to talk about balance in BOF and hold gilga class personally responsible

#

More to come

misty patio
#

Heh

serene holly
worldly sky
#

Enjoying the tree nut addition to CD. I’m finding I have a viable horde dungeon build now. Orn farming is a tiny bit easier too.

Only complaint atm is that CD so often freezes my game, forcing me to restart. Especially annoying at higher anguish farming where it felt like every 2nd or 3rd attack was likely to freeze the game. Very disruptive

jaunty glacier
#

It seems more likely to freeze if you are hitting the next attack too soon, like during the CD proc turn. I haven't had nearly as many freezes when I let the turn run its course instead of spamming the next skill

rain lodge
#

Not so much in Horde or Anguish cause I am usuually getting smacked in the face

#

but just on boss or hard boss runs

worldly sky
worldly sky
rain lodge
verbal hornet
#

There was one OL last month i think

#

But 2% missing mana

knotty owl
#

When it freezes I just go into my phones task panel and back to orna. I dont need to close it out, just get my app to reconnect to the server. Slightly more optimal then a full close

verbal hornet
#

I've never had a freeze but that's good to know

worldly sky
knotty owl
#

I use IOS and tap the home button, scroll through the other apps up, then go back to orna. Works 100% of the time

worldly sky
rain lodge
worldly sky
rain lodge
worldly sky
#

When I did with 6 mountain acorns, I was finishing dungeons with like half my mana still remaining.

I wish I knew the CD chance of arisen sea axe so I could do the math on my total CD chance.

rain lodge
#

One of these days I am going to try to justify why Trialing Axe should have CD chance 😄

brave jewel
#

To allow Giglas to farm effectively. 🤣

worldly sky
#

My Trialing axe has 9 slots. Sand mortar increases CD damage by 5% each. So you could load that trialing axe up with 45% cd damage. Although I’m duel wielding questing axes so I can fit 12 mortars on for 60% CD.

I’m like just now getting and equipping my sand mortars so I’m excited to see the CD synergy with the tree nuts.

worldly sky
#

tree-nut/sand-mortar combo pretty much doubled the damage of my world farming build. dual wielding quest axes allows for 12 sand mortars. this is a huge QoL improvement that was much needed. i was in full farm gear at anguish 28, with Gursa lvl 249 al 22. oracle with ancillary and two BoG's n everything. i still got demolished many of my fights, and sometimes use Celes axe in mainhand for tough fights, but mostly producing orns at a rate ive ever done before.

also, i turned off animations and it seems my game hasnt frozen from Cd since.

golden tree
#

Did you try in dungeon? Is it viable there?

chilly maple
worldly sky
# golden tree Did you try in dungeon? Is it viable there?

I’m still tweaking my dungeon build around but I’m enjoying celestial axe with 5 Selene hands, and an arisen sea axe with 6 sand mortars.

In HoA we don’t need farming gear in the dungeons so I just go max luck with mightiest mimic and superior unfelled concord, and then my best gear with tree nut adornments. Some mountain acorns too to help with mana

rain lodge
#

My primary purpose for dungeon farming is still orns, so I've yet to really mess around with anything that would impinge on my ability to earn orns. Maybe if Towers get a large orn boost, I'll get to try a max CD build.

rain lodge
#

But they seem fun!

worldly sky
#

CD seems to only proc once per mage dance for me. Is this how it’s supposed to be or is it supposed to be able to proc for every target?

sharp spire
worldly sky
hoary solar
#

#1170505682827616407 message

#

it appears that to determine wheter or not CD hits, it chooses just "the last target" hit. So if for example CS's 2nd hit is a miss, CD will never proc.

If sweep's "last hit" is a miss, CD won't proc either

#

This is particularly annoying because CD won't proc if sweep's "last hit" is an immune mob, or if the mob's pet blocks it's damage

opal jackal
#

How do you increase Gilga Ursa's damage CD? Since he has a 2h passive and depends on critical weapon adornments?

rich leaf
#

Armour and nuts

sharp spire
#

Labrys works too

verbal hornet
#

#1164264303533244466 message

opal jackal
opal jackal
# sharp spire Labrys works too

Is it worth more than a 2h celestial weapon?
just trying to understand how to make the passive useful, which needs a build around it

sharp spire
#

More than a 2h celestial weapon, probably not.
The passive doesn't necessarily need to be built around. You got it for free. If you just leave it be it's a chance to deal 40% bonus damage

#

Plus you can use the spiked spells, combined with ward regen (or not if you're ursa and don't care about ward) to get bonus CD without gearing for it

opal jackal
#

I'm referring to the gursa, specifically

opal jackal
sharp spire
opal jackal
hoary solar
opal jackal
hoary solar
#

I wouldn't necessarily say gursa depends fully on crit. Especially with CD boosting stances requiring ward turns, a gs4 build should be pretty good too. But I haven't personally played around with it. This video does come to mind: https://youtu.be/etB-ZmOfh7E?si=jqBnhxsS2IsrwGfT

YouTube
Big Forg
[Orna] Raiding Options for Gilgamesh Ursa

Decided to record a showcase for my latest Gilgamesh Ursa raiding guide. You can find the written guide in the official Orna discord server in the Warrior Class Discussions or in the #gilgamesh channel in Orna Legends discord

00:00 Realm Strikes
04:38 Ultimastrikes
08:46 Guarding Strikes 4

▶ Play video
#

its out of date since it was made pre-CD i think, but gs4 is a valid raid option that does not require crit. The only way I can imagine both a crit and CD build to work is with a mixture of ashen pinions and tree nuts, which you'll probalby never achieve both 100% crit and 100% CD but I think that's the point. One build can't have everything

#

or maybe you can achieve 100% of both, but you won't be able to scale up CD damage too much since you'll likely be using a cele wep

opal jackal
#

I played with rs, I changed to gilga so I could play with gursa and not depend from the redline.I don't see a class inclined towards rogue, without crit,is inefficient

hoary solar
#

you can think of CD as a replacement for crit. If you're moving from RS, why not be happy with the base 15% chance for 30% bonus damage?

#

just maximize crit and you're already getting bonus damage from CD with 0 investment

#

I'll also point out that CD is primarily a horde mechanism, not a raid mechanic. It is incredibly helpful in horde fights, and leveraging it in raids I think is meant to be awkward

opal jackal
#

It's a passive, right? There should be some efficient way to build through it, just like all other classes. but this passive only causes conflicts

#

How does a conventional gilga give up the adornments of ward, hp and mana, to invest in CD?

hoary solar
#

there is an efficient way to build through it. You just can't maximize it as well as maximizing crit

#

although here is an US build I put together which has 100% crit chance and 100% CD:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814976465421860924/1169646792296628284/Screenshot_20231102-073751.png?ex=65689e76&is=65562976&hm=e4624f0ae30df266a74dc80ed80777912fcd517d3703d3855818690697b75430&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814976465421860924/1169646792686710784/Screenshot_20231102-073803.png?ex=65689e76&is=65562976&hm=50f33f04f417c9bfab64c1040da4a077425f870e1f205fe6919d1040a0b07896&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814976465421860924/1169651062186188810/Screenshot_20231102-075530.png?ex=6568a270&is=65562d70&hm=60631e313a0ca56a8c336bb887c07c431589b098f39052ccd8b18bd3b236a41f&

opal jackal
#

Gilga Ursa doesn't take advantage of much of a ward, since his passive is limited to 2-handed weapons, he needs crit to deal relevant damage as well.

#

I just came to ask how you guys build it to take advantage of a passive, giving up other basic things

hoary solar
#

In the above screenshots, I am not using a 2h weapon. You'll find that the gursa 2h passive is usually widely ignored

#

The most use I get out of gursa's 2h passive is in BoF with labrys, which has increased CD chance and damage. It has plenty of slots for ferocious gems, too

#

But I personally load it with solarite mortars

jade leaf
#

Is an amity, who boost cd dmg, or chance, planned?

verbal hornet
jade leaf
#

Good enough, now to wait.

balmy skiff
#

The best iten for Gilgamesh

Sem_titulo.png
chilly maple
sharp spire
balmy skiff
sharp spire
verbal hornet
#

Wierd

#

I have a pretty fun time with CD.

  • Sped up tower clears
  • I miss far less often in AoE content
  • more consistency in Hard Boss anguish dungeons
  • occasional extra hit while SS raiding
  • i can swash in horde boss anguish 50 with orn gear
opal jackal
#

the passive is based on the damage dealt, so it works well on those who are already strong

#

no adornment options to increase damage (without giving up two-handed celestial weapons)

#

I made a suggestion here #1178691519578902559
(I'm sorry for not being "clean", it's my first time making a thread, and I'm not fluent in English

waxen crater
#

So did CD turn 1 kills (pvp) get fixed with the update? I didn't see it in the change log

verbal hornet
#

It was fixed like two weeks ago

hoary solar
waxen crater
#

It must be. Maybe not as high powered as spirit doggo but in no way slumming it

worldly sky
#

The enlightenment quest used to be easier for warriors before collateral damage. Being tanky helped get the codexing complete. Now, you have to be careful attacking anything bc CD could wipe out the target you’ve been searching for.

I’m long past that quest myself, but I’ve helped a few people with this quest. And now, I’m no longer a good class to help for these situations.

I know it’s a niche scenario, but I wonder if there is any use in having a skill that can turn off CD when activated. Just a thought 💭

polar oasis
#

Good news is that early on, changing classes is not as big of an issue as there isn't the whole Ascensions argument 🙂

Change Class is meant to be a core part of the Orna experience, glad there's still some solid uses off it early on!

rain lodge
#

How we feeling about Collateral Damage now 5 months later folks?

Personally I'm loving it except for one bit of clunkiness, though it's nothing major.
Right now using the Pauldrons and Greaves skills is totally counterproductive the higher your base CD chance. They are great if you are just running base chance but if you are running say 80% and want to use them, you'll be out of ward quicker than you can say hiss cat.

verbal hornet
#

I'd love to see some non event armor cd adorns

rain lodge
#

What about Trialing axe with CD proc or damage chance? 😉

verbal hornet
#

or questing axe?

rain lodge
#

I think Questing Axe would be a bridge too far

stray marsh
#

I love it, makes non-anguish hording really consistent especially with the dex from nuts on top of having something to lean into as I ascend once I have enough raw ward for towering and anguish play. The extra dps while raiding is the cherry on top 👍 the simple buildcrafting also appeals to my caveman brain

rain lodge
#

Pretty silent, must mean people are happy!

deft thunder
#

I am 🙂

sterile path
#

I haven't jumped on the nut train yet, so all that happens currently is I rarely finish a floor quicker and die occasionally as a trade off for that 😅

rain lodge
crisp obsidian
#

I also haven't built anything for it, altho Labrys has some bonus? no numbers = not exist

#

its completely ignorable in raids, but w/ T6 blademaster, its welcome in monument fights (as would any multi target dmg be!)

#

it bugs me that its non-elemental, and Id like to see it more often when using "sweep" - srsly, auto ca, cd, quietest power bumps ever

rain lodge
#

Why does it bug you that it's non elemental? I enjoy that for the sometimes ability to take out Mighty Mimics etc without having to specifically swap to a dragon skill.

crisp obsidian
#

last month, it ruined some boss kills for the feature quest

and it just does! MM, phys immune, can take "collateral dmg" feels like a deus ex machina bug

#

If i swing dyrnwyn, they should all take fire dmg

#

here, /me hands back the soapbox thanks

keen trout
#

I'd imagine it was, in part, made non-elemental so you don't "double-dip" on weaknesses resistances etc.

crisp obsidian
#

an update, I got serious about collat dmg build

Screenshot_20240401-124603.png
#

stronger than sweep! not quite as good as building ward for chain shield, but T8 & 9 gils probably gonna love it, if there's enough adorns in their armor

hollow flame
#

But how do you get av2 on t8/9 ? 😅 Isn't it a t10 hertic Ara spell ?

crisp obsidian
#

I shouldve been wearing my april fool skin

empty wedge
#

Wanna ask something about collateral chance

As I used 24 bristle and arisen labrys, with the class passive, I am supposed to have more than 100% chance to proc CD. However, I still rarely encounter no proc of CD. I wonder if it is a bug, or some wrong info of gears/passives🙇‍♂️

verbal hornet
#

I've never tested the the cd proc rates on each weapon but from the numbers we got from dangy an arisen labrys is between 10%-15% proc chance so i guess a labrys is 10-12%

full hamlet
#

Do we know if cd can miss?

misty patio
#

It cannot

hoary solar
#

This is the biggest miss for me on the release of CD. I don't think it will ever get addressed, unfortunately

empty wedge
verbal hornet
empty wedge
#

yes as you mentioned it's between 10~15

verbal hornet
#

Base Chance is 15%
Bristle is 3%
and apparently labrys is 10%

verbal hornet
crisp obsidian
#

Ive got a bunch of collat dmg armor pieces now and having to add them up, and weap, is already not worth the hassle after less than a week. Id rather run ara vesta