#Endless Orn meta

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

steel urchin
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It as recently come to my attention how quickly GS can farm orns. 100mil orns per hour is one factor I have heard (without temples or shrines)

Two points that should be considered:

  1. Mindlessly putting down gs as a classline will not be tolerated.

  2. Does the community view that gs being the orn farming endless class cheesey or not? Please explain

Im not putting that much detail into this as most commenters (including myself) read the most recent 10-20 messages and comment. So this is mostly to start the convo and see where it goes.

olive pumice
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But what's your stance on it? I'm not sure what you want to talk about in that regard

steel urchin
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Me? I think it is great and kinda cheesey. But the same level of cheese ultima and ultima strikes is.

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So I am going to start learning this

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But it seems like everyone just is accepting the orn gain. But we dont really talk about it

drifting bloom
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I personally don't have a problem with it. Yeah, GS is pretty exceptional at farming endless but I believe all classes have their niches and this is one. The class is in my opinion by no means overperforming at all content therefore I'm fine with it being good at some things and less good at others. Orn endless is also something other classes can bruteforce with Ascensions, though still not as efficiently as GS

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That said, my opinion will likely be skewed to some measure because I do use GS for endless

olive pumice
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Honestly I find it in the same boat as Heretic's ability to obliterate amorri in 30 seconds or less. When it comes to GS, it takes a lot of set up for endless either way. It isn't as speedy as it appears (I think.) Every class has its strengths, but when it comes to Endless I do feel like other classes would be able to start pushing toward those numbers as they get more AL and figure out more specific builds. There was a heretic video recently from Zipper that was a really fast clear speed of 500+ floors in 30 minutes (https://youtu.be/ZV_zopNmVOc). So it's not like other classes can't land on their own psycho endless strats.

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Pretty sure with the right set ups, RS and Gilga can achieve similar

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I'd assume with RS, attack button build or something, and with Gilga that whole 40%/turn ward recovery build for SS3 spam

karmic storm
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I've been out of the endless game for a bit while focusing on anguishing and this whole month of raiding. Looking at stats I've written down from my own runs, I'm seeing my high end topping out around 2mil orns/min without shrine, doing GS endless.

So: 120mil orns/hr, 240 with a shrine and more with event. I would expect that a more reasonable ascension and gear level (lower quality bogs) it'd be closer to 1mil/min for most people.

I say that to say: technically, endless isn't even the highest orns in the game anymore. 😬

Thanks to Anguish50 being a 3x orn boost, I've been able to pull down 5mil orns for a hard boss (no horde) which takes a little over a minute. If I can squeeze 30 hardbosses into an hour (needs real world travel), that's 150mil orns/hr, 300 with shrine and yada yada.

Also worth mentioning, there's opportunities like:

  • celestial stardrop farming under anguish50, was pulling 50mil orns/hr doing that
  • mnemonic farming with +mnemonic gear and amities, ~1mil orns per and can do one a minute or so
  • just spamming horde non-hard boss in T10, can get something in the order of 10mil orns/hr with partial boosters

On a more meta level -- all of this is insanity to me. 😅

Starting with the 10x from quality affecting +orn boosters which was a while ago now, but even stuff like the fallen T10 bosses being added which were triple the rewards of the other T10 bosses and the high level of player power in general...

Ascension's orn requirement has been drastically diminished to the point of really only talking about materials now. Using endless or really any other orn-heavy strategy, you can almost entirely remove orn concerns. Is that intended...? Who knows. Orn income has outpaced material income for quite some time though.

olive pumice
karmic storm
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It seems like all of GS/Heretic/Realm can put up quite good endless numbers. At least 1mil orns/min, possibly higher toward 2 or 3.

GS (and Beo, using Bastion strats) can get insanely deep because they have the defenses to do so. But in terms of rate, they're not all that. Depth is important but being able to clear each floor in a turn or two at most is also very important when it comes to orn rate/income.

raw stone
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sore himself said that realm was faster than gs at orn farming

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though I dont know exactly what realms are pulling

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from his endless guide thread a while back

image.png
olive pumice
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Oh damn, so 243mill/hr

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RS>Heretic>GS

karmic storm
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if that's 4mil/min with shrine, then 2mil/min is about what I'm at with GS 🤷‍♂️

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unclear if that's shrined or not. I don't think that's w/o shrine though.

drifting bloom
# olive pumice RS>Heretic>GS

I don't think it's fully cemented in the class, it's quite clear it's heavily influenced by the build and Ascensions

karmic storm
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realistically each turn takes like ~3s, so one enemy a turn is 20 floors a minute; 20 minutes would be 400 floors at the best, etc etc.

olive pumice
stable orchid
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if someone's actually going to get scientific about this, ascensions, time it takes to setup / key farm / availability of dungeons, etc. all factor into this. so wouldn't just take a youtube title and multiply it out per hour and call it a day

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but the sentiment is exactly the same, though, i'd say that realm (crit based basic attack builds), gs (summon builds), heretic (ultima spam with mana regen) builds are all likely very close in orn earning potential

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i've yet to see another class get close to the top 3 (this is just for endless, to fux's point there are other ways of earning orns these days)

olive pumice
karmic storm
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endless has the huge benefit of not caring about availability or keyfarm. I mentioned horde boss, hard boss, mnemonics as alternatively good orn income -- all of those have pretty hefty requirements (dungeon access, dungeon access and keys, mnemonics primarily from towerspam) that endless doesn't.

for high orns from endless, it's mostly an M1 problem first and a defenses problem second.

high M1 can be solved with:

  • SS1 spam (M1=3)
  • HorSlash3 spam (M1=2.6)
  • Ultima turn-reduction strat (M1=4)
  • Attack button (M1=ludicrous)
  • Summons (high base stats from snapshot, M1=2ish on feyV's)
  • (weakest) Followers (high base stats, M1 varies, also AI can get screwy)

high defenses can be solved with:

  • protect% from battalions/multiple summons
  • protect% from beo passive, Jord
  • Bastion spam (with YCS and/or bastion amity/augs, for gs/beo who have player non-damage turns)
  • stat passives (2x at 1hp for realm, 2x at low mp for heretic, etc.)
  • mystic feather (realm)
  • second chance (here, gilga, deity)
  • aegir (mag users, here/deity primarily)
  • zerk2+zerk3 (realm primarily, but also heretic/gilga/deity who can leech it back)
karmic storm
stable orchid
karmic storm
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ty, I said it out loud in my head but didn't write it down 😅 meant to.

olive pumice
steel urchin
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Thanks for weighing in. It seems like the opinion so far is shrug

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Big deal if gs is good at endless others are too

stable orchid
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as the duly elected king of cheese, i did not get FOMO from seeing GS do what they're doing with orn endless, fwiw

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i'm interested in what folks from some of the classes not mentioned here thinks: beo, gilga, deity etc.

karmic storm
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Beo endless is bad, but can orn farm with HB fairly easily.

Gilga endless is bad because it can't run max orns gear as well, otherwise fine. Loses dw questing for a shield at least, probably has to toss CJO for a real chestplate too.

Deity endless is probably best doing the ultima-shorten strat, and should be about the same as heretic at doing so.

stable orchid
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yeah true re: deity, good to know re: beo. how do gilgas even farm orns then?

karmic storm
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how do gilgas even farm orns then?

Capture.PNG
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||realistically, just keep spamming horde/hard boss. party boss. endless with partial boosters. because orns income is so high, even a lower than max orn income is sufficient to make materials the real limiter.||

steel urchin
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Yah gilga orns is just having a farm gear piece or two when doing dungeons. Or like Fux said. Wait till orn block and farm with the other classes.

steel urchin
old ether
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Yes signet shall be our "turophile"! ||yes I looked up what a cheese aficionado is called||

jagged minnow
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To be clear, this is only talking about cheese as in taking advantage of game mechanics to their fullest intent, right? If we're talking about the food, then I think we might need to run this through a panel first.

stable orchid
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Aegir is still my favorite cheese

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Was so so good

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But I digress

vagrant kindle
jovial gate
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Personally I'm still a bit weirded out about how powerful dungeon snapshotting is

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Summoner's just the best user of the snapshotting

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But as others have stated, others are capable of very powerful orn farming methods, so perhaps it's not the end all be all source of all ornage nowadays

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Plus orn income has been so trivialized that it might not even be a big deal

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To those who are interested though, I am in the proccess of making a (better) step by step video guide on how to endless summoner

marsh ether
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I don't have any issue with GS being a good endless farmer, or realm or heretic for that matter. Different classes being good at some content and not others should be part of game design. Having played since the days of orn farming being a grueling task, the current state makes orna more accessible than just the sweatiest of the sweats being the only deep endgame players.

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Materials being the biggest block to ascension isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you just had to grind out 4k cort and then already having the orns from efficiently playing other parts of the game is fine.

steel urchin
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Especially with other sources to play endgame content to buy the resources you need

stable orchid
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ya recent addition of raid mats to towers, travelers, anguish with more guilds coming = more ways to get raid mats, which actually makes it bearable imo

steel urchin
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Yah agreed

timber mica
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Orns earned is not too great to debate as RS can achieve that much too with less time given to setup. But I think with a similar number of ascensions there's no class which can achieve what GS can do at anguish 50. Which is not just orns, but also farming proofs.

pliant swan
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Since the release of anguish content, I been saying how easy compared to others classes is to farm for gs/beos, endless wasn't a big problem because others classes have options to farm orns, however for anguish is a different history, cause you are farming "everything" at once, which is really hard for others classes.

And no, I am not asking for a nerf to those classes, is up to the NF team to make a more balanced game play for everyone.

spiral swan
jovial gate
stable orchid
jovial gate
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Yeah well, I tried

timber mica
jovial gate
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the entire thing was ~55 minutes

timber mica
jovial gate
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It's at the end of the video

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Smh at least watch the whole thing

timber mica
jovial gate
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||70 Orns, 100b exp||

timber mica
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Ooh, so you can earn more from Hard boss/hr compared to endless due to anguish?

jovial gate
timber mica
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It's possible, but yeah, you need to be lucky to have a good spot with lots of dungeons

uneven flume
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jeez, yall are so rude ab it. nice vid john

jovial gate
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Thanks :)

uneven flume
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production on it is nuts

devout badger
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I definitely think we should encourage more content creators, rather than troll them.
More content creators is good for the game in general!

Honestly the production quality is really high. Whether this is a topic of interest or not, I found the video very engaging. Well done

old ether
stable orchid
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ha yes i say in jest john, good videeo and i'm sure all the GS folks will appreciate the indepth how to

jovial gate
timber mica
drifting bloom
jovial gate
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That's great, exactly what I was aiming for

karmic storm
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Unstated, but in the topic of orn rate/efficient farming...

GS endless may look a little daunting, but once you have the load outs set up, it's quite quick and mechanical.

55 min for 70mil is a bit over 1mil/min. Faster setup and more ascensions (for more 1turn clear power) gets you up more toward the 2mil/min mark.

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Also: great vid. 🙂 Good production, and hearing Nomad was a nice surprise

jovial gate
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Oh, you Kno(w)mad?

karmic storm
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||I watch dota tournies 😄 ||

jovial gate
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Ah, I see

drifting bloom
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I thought it didn't sound like John 😅

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Who's nomad

jovial gate
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A person with much better recording quality and environment, much better practice with vocalising than I have, and a dear friend of mine.

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This is also getting far too off topic to be in here 😅

drifting bloom
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Sorry

jovial gate
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No worries, not your fault

steel urchin
# jovial gate Yeah well, I tried

Hey I have no hard feelings about you or GS. Just was shocked at the rate of income. Thanks for making the video, i will be sure to study and prep my own GS farm. Thank you John!

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Probably decent to close this puppy up. Not sure what else there is to say