Gilgamesh- The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[small canyon]

yeah, i'm not going in that chat for a long time

[tulip obsidian]

Haven't really found a group to farm ymir yet this month. January was crazy in mjo's server 😂

[earnest furnace]

I use it for everything

[tough spear]

When I'm up against something that likes to status the shit outta me

Other than that herc all the way

[small canyon]

I did some ymir paty runs today and have a solid gilga herc second spot support build

[marsh laurel]

Tbh lately I've been raising with Ursa more than base

[small canyon]

revive, and reall big chained shields lol

[marsh laurel]

It's primarily to do with the fun new toy that is Ultimastrikes

[small canyon]

i don't use base for anything

ursa for pvp and horde dungeons

herc for raiding and towers

[tulip obsidian]

Base for everything except Hercules for Colis and Ursa for Orn Farming

[small canyon]

although ursa couldn't handle party play support with anguish horde ymir farming today

we were only running anguish 8 but lucky crits came through and i just dies from time to time

i feel like i do way more damage with spiked shield builds with hercules and adapting to status effects isn't really that difficult

[tulip obsidian]

Anguish is wierd I've so gotten used to not needing WoO

[small canyon]

running stone doggo fixes that

he's a heckin good boi

[tulip obsidian]

He is but phoenix

[tough spear]

He's the goodest of boys

[small canyon]

meh i forgot phoenix was even a thing anymore

when i raid with herc i use chimera

[tough spear]

Phoenix is overrated

[tulip obsidian]

Pre nerf phoenix + selene hands were the golden days of gilga bard

[small canyon]

just needs too much pet action to be effective now so if you are running c.axe for recovery then you're running suboptimal gear and losing ward

[tough spear]

A finesse greatsword filled with blackened eyes is actually really good for DC uptime

[small canyon]

fey chimera gear needs ward added

just do it and take my money

i got that 50% buff, hybrid amity yesterday so looking forward to messing around a little more gilgamage

my fgs is all achlys'd out now for ultimastrikes

but may blacken up a ymir world eater and see how phoenix plays

[minor hare]

Works on gilga ursa and deity ursa.

For ultima strikes

[small canyon]

what's on the sky cowl?

[minor hare]

Rhada souls

[small canyon]

word

[minor hare]

I didn't optimize adornments yet for it

[small canyon]

why not oracle with double crit?

i was thinking of trying the same thing now that i don't really have use for my feathers

[minor hare]

Sadly only got 1 of that adornment

[small canyon]

ah

[minor hare]

I like Deity Ursa's increased tankiness though

[small canyon]

i played around a bit with base deity and dursa the other day with arrowstorm builds to compare against my gursa sweep build and liked gursa for more consistency

i hate relying on temp buffs

[minor hare]

The base attack is higher though

[small canyon]

just keep dunping ascension into gursa until it gets to be where i want it lol

[minor hare]

Did you try sweep on Dursa?

[small canyon]

the base attack is sure, but with covyn scythe and zwei i do much much higher base damage and only get outclased by deity when it's got +++'s up

i didn't mess with sweep on dursa

i used to use deity swash arrowstorm

that's what i did dragon's with last year

[minor hare]

cause arrowstorm does not perform the same as sweep

[small canyon]

basically arrowstorm and then crit for single targets

yeah, i'm aware

[spare widget]

I was only a few kills under that today when I got my first Ornate Ymir charm

I did get an Ornate beehive staff too but of course it's on my main and not on my beo/summoner alt

[small canyon]

Ursa sweep build for dragons

[small canyon]

Last time around I got a MF charm

[minor hare]

I'm using this to farm anguish 30 dungeons and jewels of creation

[spare widget]

Niice

[tulip obsidian]

A lot of unnecessary crit

[small canyon]

Sortie2 for stragglers

Mainly ymir

Enough pet action that chimera kills basically any left over dragon other than ymir

I built those pants for ultimastrikes and thought i'd give them a shot with the horde build and its working well

[spare widget]

I'm just running a lame arrowstorm build

[tulip obsidian]

Whats that amity

[small canyon]

buff duration i'd assume

[tulip obsidian]

25% accessory efficiency wont work on lugus i think

[small canyon]

but mine is called recovery so i dunno

yeah acc amity doesn't work on lugus

[spare widget]

That's a technical error lol, it's not supposed to be that amity

It is in fact supposed to be the 50% duration and 4% ward

[small canyon]

oh nice

i really enjoy running wardless ursa builds

feels so fresh compared to standard gilga play

how much damage does that lay down without the t.buffs?

[spare widget]

sometimes I run 30% dragon and 2 Ymir charms or what not, just depends

[small canyon]

i was actually snapshotting dungeons starting them with dorado and buffing to get the dragon alignment but started running without the alignment and it's still good enough

only have anguish on 8 though

enough to trickle in some xp and proofs

[spare widget]

I haven't even bothered to push Anguish past 4 yet

Just dn't have enough time in the day

[minor hare]

I'm lvl 39 with the anguish guild (guild lvl - I've already unlocked all anguish lvls)

[small canyon]

I haven't cared to go above anguish 19

[minor hare]

Gilga handles higher anguish fairly deceint. Penetrating defenses becomes an issue at higher anguish

I completed a lvl 50 anguish boss horde last month XD

[small canyon]

I typically start as Dorado and get buffs, triple zerk and swap to realmshifter arrowstorm

[minor hare]

Here's something I've been wondering

Is there a dual questing build for gilga that actually works in endless?

[small canyon]

I tried gilga chained shield and its way safer but realm is so much faster

Negative

Gilga sucks at orn endless

[minor hare]

Yeah I'm always short on orns mats I have stockpiled

Probably if I get a few more AL in Deity then it could probably farm them faster

[marsh laurel]

I Gilga Trialling Axe for orns

not endless, though

hard boss

[small canyon]

I do orn endless as realm Corvus and can make enough orns in like 3-4 runs for an ascension level

[minor hare]

I did find that I can effectively do 10 anguish on endless with gilga

did help offset the slower orn rate a little

[small canyon]

I'm firmly convinced you really need ream and gilga with all the celestials to have one complete melee warrior lol

[minor hare]

I've unlocked all but 5 celestials

[small canyon]

Oh I didn't mean all celestials, just the melee ones

[minor hare]

Heratics, beo arugila, and summoners all I have left XD

[small canyon]

2 realm, 2 gilga, and dursa

[minor hare]

yeah I got those ones unlocked

[small canyon]

Might unlock beo h one day but not pressed on it

And I don't need any filthy mage classes

[marsh laurel]

Ascended at all?

[small canyon]

50 realm, 57 gilga

[minor hare]

dang nice

I'm 44 gilga, 8 deity

but on hold for jewels of creation XD

[small canyon]

that being said 20al in realm will get you a good endless farmer and even 0al realm can farm well, but 20 al isn't a huge investment

but being a gilga main, you kinda need an orn farming class to compliment it

[spare widget]

Last Endless I did was Realm Swash with Hel's feathers, if I can get to floor 90-100 that's all the farther IOcare to go

Hard Endless

[small canyon]

you can tialing axe hard boss or dual questing hard boss, but the key loss isn't sustainable

yeah, i'm thinking about experimenting with hard endless again

[tulip obsidian]

Strahd - 55 AL gilga - doesnt have endless X

[spare widget]

Ain't nobody got time for that

[small canyon]

get your ass in there and claim those orns!

[spare widget]

flee, switch class, buff, flee switch class buff...f all that noise lol

[small canyon]

that's the only reason i did it lol

gilga is really good at deep endless just not farming orns at the same time

[spare widget]

The last time I seriously tried a regular endless was in July of 2021

[small canyon]

shouldn't take you more than 1 or 2 tries at al55

[minor hare]

yeah deep endless it does good - till penetration becomes an issue

[small canyon]

right

[minor hare]

Or rather until you run into berserk realmy XD

[small canyon]

when you have to start swapping to VSS then it's just not fun anymore

[minor hare]

Them berserk realmies like to attack through stun and blight

[small canyon]

but strahd, i'd definitely say give it a shot when you have an hour or two to kill and gets those orns

shouldn't be too challenging

[spare widget]

It would probably take me an hour of watching videos just to figure out how to set one up now

[small canyon]

i did it before celestial stuff so with herc and c.axe it should be trivial

[tulip obsidian]

Dragon alignment prism wall berserk III II I and Standard buffs minus gunnr

Thats basically it

[small canyon]

this

[spare widget]

Not earth alignment these days for Niddhog?

[small canyon]

would probably readorn the c.axe with like 2 prom feet and then selene whatever part for pet action

dragon 100%

[tulip obsidian]

If you are dragon immune why care about nidhogg

[spare widget]

How do you deal with Berserk Beo's at higher floors then?

[small canyon]

this

faction affinity

[tulip obsidian]

Decay exploit faction affinity

[spare widget]

I am confused I guess

[small canyon]

ss1 penetration is so high and with herc boost and spiked great shield bonus you should be able to get past 400 before you get zeroes out

[tulip obsidian]

Its okay strahd

[spare widget]

If SS1 is doing dragon damage, right?

[small canyon]

yeah

[spare widget]

then what skill are you using to kill Fallen Beo?

[small canyon]

ice affinity, ss1, no affinity

[tulip obsidian]

Oh god dont mention the shield in front of him

[small canyon]

oh crap, my bad, i forgot

[spare widget]

So you have to flee the fight, swap skill bars?

[small canyon]

no

just have the skills prepped

[spare widget]

This is why I don't do endless, you have to have a buff loadout and a play loadout, lol

[small canyon]

i do buff rounds with beo for pet action and whatnot, so when you go back in as gilga or realm you have pure offense and utility skills loaded

because you want brynhild 1/2 and you need beo to cast it without wanting to pull your hair out

[tough spear]

Yeah beo is probably the best class to buff up with

[small canyon]

really, endless buffing is literally the only thing beo is good for 😛

[tough spear]

I mean recently beo has gotten a fun new toy in the form of arisen spiritgarm 👀

[tulip obsidian]

Pet heretic

[spare widget]

I hijacked the thread

[small canyon]

running fey chimera with good action rate is like having a pet realmshifter lol

[spare widget]

So, have we covered the highlights with the existing suggestions?

[small canyon]

🍻

[tough spear]

One problem that I would like to be fixed s gilga's ability to do orn endless

[tulip obsidian]

Please if you have any suggestions on how, do share / make a suggestion. I've been tinkering with a few ideas but haven't really had a good one

I feel like this going to be controversial but maybe we need to cut the twohanded aspect from Ursa (sprite literally isnt holding a twohanded weapon).
Dont get me wrong the twohanded playstyle is great for early game gilgamesh but if we had a passive like #💡│suggestions message it would increase the AoE / Endless capabilites a bunch

Tbh most of my ursa builds aren't twohanded and i just use ursa for its dex

[tough spear]

I'd suggest keeping bastille but make it a ×2 (or something similar) with a huge ward penalty so that it can't be utilised to any sorta spiked shield build

I like the idea of ditching the 2h playstyle because using 2 weapons with ultimastrikes is just so much better

And personally I've never been much of a fan of 2h playstyles

[tulip obsidian]

I am and i used it on base gilga until 35AL cause at some point SS started to become better for me

[tough spear]

I didn't play gilga until I got ss3 as I wasn't all that interested in 2h builds

[marsh laurel]

Love two handed weapons

[spare widget]

Labrys Dangy for the win

[low crystal]

I love them too. But I think it is because they have a lot of slots. Its been hard for me to swap off my fin gs and shield

And I wish upward strike was revisited. It feels real bad when attack button twice is always better

[tulip obsidian]

For endless gilga in full orn gear we would need a higher scaling then 50% and gilga hercules isn't really cutting it

[spare widget]

I probably should try Gilga Ursa swash with Hel's arrows in Hard endless, see how it compares to Realm. Though @small canyon might already have tried it

[small canyon]

Haven't yet but its on my to do list

[merry osprey]

I don't think anyone would miss the 2h passive if it got traded, unless 2h'ers got proper skills with them and became more viable

Or.... Give it a dual wield passive? Muahaha

[marsh laurel]

The two handed identity is super cool, and I'd much rather it be leaned into rather than taken away.

I'd it's taken away, we're trying to problem solve by making users play the same way they do on other classes, and feels uninteresting, to me.

[minor hare]

2h zwei was the main premise

and it works

[tulip obsidian]

How about this then #💡│suggestions message

Sorry didnt mean to ping

[marsh laurel]

I'm kind of refraining from saying what ideas I support as folks can take that as confirmation of something coming, or favouritism for a classline etc

[tulip obsidian]

Thats okay dangy

[tulip obsidian]

Put up two suggestions

#💡│suggestions message

And

#💡│suggestions message

[modern carbon]

I did a test between gilga and deity with the same gear/skills and deity performed overall better than gilga

[modern carbon]

with the same setup it took me over 4 minutes compared to the 2 minutes if deity

[spare widget]

Thanks for the video!

[modern carbon]

Here is the gilga run split into 2

[sonic cypress]

Yea good idea let's revert SS back to its original state. You get your crit back, you lose you 5% fixed miss chance and you lose you increased M1.

[spare widget]

Original SS had pretty much unlimited M1, just as an aside

[marsh laurel]

All Spiked Shields did - wasn't based on attack stat

was based on ward

that world would look craaaaaazy today with ascensions where they are 😅

[spare widget]

Having played under every single iteration of SS, the current is my favorite.

Dangy, can you imagine my SS with an effective 100k m1 multiplier in pvp

[marsh laurel]

Current is good - the initial tested two turn with crit still in the picture was awesome. Never got up though, folks shot it down before we could launch it IIRC

[spare widget]

I never liked crit on SS as a Gilga player, it made gilga gearing even more painful than it is now having to farm all those pinions

[tulip obsidian]

Crit SS got nerfed shortly after i unlocked Gilga, ive never played with it kinda went my realmstrikes build till t11 AL 30 haha

[flint geyser]

I'll take

[spare widget]

And the main reason I was against 2 turn SS was simply for the fact that it made you an absolute sitting duck in pvp. All anyone had to do was go assassin and or equip the offhand stick and you were going to die with no way to do anything. And unlike Ultima users, you really had no viable alternatives at that time. Gilga was SS and SS was Gilga

The playing field is a bit different today though with good hard hitting skills like Horizontal Strike v.x or what not

[hardy imp]

2turn SS with modern oceanus lungs quickcast would be... something.

[spare widget]

And that too Fux

[marsh laurel]

or modern crit bonus augments if it still crit

it's better how it is today, for sure. still kinda bonkers as a skill tbh

[low crystal]

On the high end. The road is long

[spare widget]

Yeah, I kind of agree with Ross there. Spiked shield itself is a good skill, not bonkers. The questionable part comes with how it scales with Ascensions and gearing in a way that while not unique in the game leads to a much broader band of power across the spectrum. But power potential in the end is capped the same as any other end game combination, damage cap.

[low crystal]

I think that cele weapons (axe and prom feet) helped a ton for this. But at the same time, if we call the cele weapons and augments catalysts to the end game. Each class has better and worse catalysts. As in summoners have a fat 50% stat increase to summons. But gilga gets a ward multiplier. They each have different power boosts and I think there should be a little normalization across the class lines for this power spike. (If you got this far you are an OG) I know we just had a game balance patch that was needed and I think positive towards the game health. But I do think that power spike normalization across the class lines should be looked at. I think gilga is an outlier for getting a power spike much deeper into play time then other classes.

Sorry for the text wall 😅

[spare widget]

Well any class that has an exponential power curve over a more linear increase is obviously going to be/seem overpowered past a certain investment point

[low crystal]

Mostly i mean to get to that exponential gains some classes have a fast track to it and others have a slower track. I think gilga is the slowest of the classes.

I dont think it matters that there is an exponential/positive feedback loop of power at the end game. I do care that your preferred class shouldnt drastically impact your ability to get to that point.

[minor hare]

So my initial assumptions that Deity is stronger than gilgamesh seems to be coming to fruition with building a deity. They don't play the same, but it is certainly stronger than gilgamesh. It does come at a higher price though as to optimize it, you need a lot more gear pieces than gilgamesh and obviously the high lvls to be able to use the skills with it. So my opinion is that gilgamesh isn't an end game class but deity is. Also explains why it costs more orns.

[inner arch]

Also deity is a bit boring in it's current concept. It misses uniqueness. The power of it was never a real problem as it can do horde, raids, PvP... I'd say it lack a bit in endless as Def become irrelevant. But otherwise your mid everywhere.
The most frustrating is celestial classes which are the only one to remove game options instead of adding some.

And also fk unstable omnimancy for good mesure.

[tulip obsidian]

I understand the frustration but lets keep this thread focused on gilgamesh

[honest bay]

Been a Deity main for ~10 months now, just decided to get back on Gilga and bought Gilga Herc.

The class is nice in towers, CS feels great and I can usually close both my 31 floors in around 1.5h.

That being said, My D.Ursa gets uncomfortably close in ward even when playing Zwei with a 2h weapon, and absolutely destroys Gilga in ward when running Cata.
That, and the fact that I still have steadfast 2, makes Deity an overall better class imo.

Not aure about Gilga Ursa as I haven't really gotten to it yet, but Herc needs some love.

[inner arch]

Yeah mb, but if no one speak about deity problems, we'll wait another 2 years before we see any modifications. Gilga may need help in damage department but I'll keep the deity lobby alive for all my 2 deity brothers.

[tulip obsidian]

Feel free to make your own class feedback thread, or put up suggestions

[inner arch]

Deity being underplayed as a main class, people usually don't care about it and threads die in no time.

[tulip obsidian]

Gilgamesh is also one of the least played classes and yet we have a big thread here

[low crystal]

Note that people my agree with your concerns m about your class. We are just trying to organize them on discord

[modern carbon]

I think gilga needs a stance or move that locks Bastille damage% kinda like blood shift to keep our damage consistent.
The issue of low mana means that we have to do a lot of management of our mana/hp constantly while trying to keep ward up creates a gameplay loop that's not comfortably enjoyable.

In my video I did of gilga and deity, deity just has more comfort room to be able to do more things than gilga did due to that larger mana pool and sometimes not even using any mana

[minor hare]

I also like deity for it's orn farming and view range over gilgamesh. There really is no reason for me to play gilga anymore. (Just wish the 44 AL on my gilga would transfer over to Deity lol)

[novel bone]

I agree, I like Gilga and I want to play with Gilga, but I realized that I was playing more with other classes than the Gilga that I've always invested in, and that really discouraged me.

[tulip obsidian]

To get some new, maybe productive, life into this thread again:
If you guys could increase one stat or change one passive what would it be and why?

[proud isle]

I think I saw a suggestion I really liked for Ursa, which was turning statuses into health/mana. The only problem is, in order to get those statuses, you'd have to take hits for the most part, which eats into turn economy and extends dungeon clears. Maybe berserks could be included to mitigate that problem. For base, I'd like to see a higher stat passive. I haven't looked, but Gil feels like its stats aren't that impressive, and 1.5x stat multi isn't helping matters. Especially considering you're not going to be near it if you're using SS and don't have promfeet.

[novel bone]

In general, I would love to see that suggestion of stances in the class, fair and decent. For Gilga Ursa I would exchange Crest of Avalon for the Battle Fury that was suggested, this would open up many possibilities for the class, especially in endless. I'm emphasizing the suggestions because it was something discussed here and very well received.

[modern carbon]

This is how I'm feeling about gilga, I just unlocked all the t10 classes and they all have a better gameplay loop than gilga does even though my gilga is the best geared one

[modern carbon]

Guardian passive I feel could be removed or changed to something that we can actually benefit from. Every other class has passives that directly benefit the classes or indirectly.

Guardian doesn't do anything but effect control pvp battles if you already own the land which most of the time is effectively nothing.

I feel like guardian could be moved to a specialization instead and gilga get something else that can be used for all stages of the game like the other classes

[proud isle]

I didn't even mention Guardian because I don't even consider it a passive lmfao

[novel bone]

I am the last Gilga in my kingdom, the others changed their class and some even reversed their ascension (which is not worth it). People there were quite disappointed, some even stopped playing (including me) and only fulfilled the kingdom's obligations.

If any changes occur, I will certainly return to the game 100%, but until then there is no motivation or meaning for me to return.

[modern carbon]

I feel like the Guardian passive should be something that either boosts our base defense/resistance so we can be more tanky or straight up a ward multipler.

As Gilga our HP is barely above the other classes, I feel like we should have a much higher base HP to work with.

[flint geyser]

The team at least have say something about all the things that are been said here? Or everything said is just trow into bottlesens bucket.

[tulip obsidian]

They have read up on this thread and also discussed it, there's just a lot of stuff that's currently being worked on

[modern carbon]

Maybe one of the changes can be just Spiked Shield 1/3 one for damage and the other for penetration, and spiked shield 2 gets changed to another ward consumption skill that gives another avenue for play

[inner arch]

What about a passive that give damage reduction during guarding turn (like the amity). Would allow Gilga to use the spells that stat by guarding more efficiently. Also though of "every waiting turn is now a guarding turn" but it may be too strong.

[spare widget]

As per Yoshi's statement, yes they are watching what we say here and giving it thought! So let's keep giving them food for thinking.

[flint geyser]

Good nice to know they are keeping on eye, so now the question is they said anything about the any of the all ideas trow already to have a chance to become part of the gilga lineup?

[spare widget]

There have been no specifics mentioned. The last few months since the balance patch have mostly been focused on content and bug fixes. I think in the next couple months we will start seeing some mechanics discussion. I am just making an educated guess on that though.

[low crystal]

I think with avidity there could be a play for another passive that gets added to differing degrees across the gilgas. I dont have a complete thought on what that should be yet 😅

[spare widget]

When you all are brainstorming ideas, I want you to think big and not just Gilgamesh

Look at Avidity for example, it's a thief thing, not just a Realm thing

So Atlas Vanguard, TG, Gilga and to some extent the Celestials

[small canyon]

Giving avidity to ursa would be pretty sweet

[ebon totem]

rs ursa

[spare widget]

Well I do have a suggestion up that essentially allows Multihitting while wielding a 2 hander, like a poor mans avidity :p

[small canyon]

I like that too

I really enjoy ursa for horde content, but it needs a little oomph

[spare widget]

There are days I wonder why I am not doing Towers as Realm Dorado, besides the fact I haven't bought it yet 😄

[inner arch]

since avadity, rs really became a force to be (randomly) reckoned with. when your enemy start playing 4 times in a row, not stonks.

[low crystal]

I have 22 als in realm and it is hard to get the ward pool to make towers easier then my same geared gilga

[spare widget]

I think my Realm is at 46 atm, haven't checked in awhile

[floral rain]

Realm is very slow

[low crystal]

I was thinking about a way for the gilga class to have quick cast on defensive moves.

This would have db be more effective on gilga/titan guard.

Might cause someone to think about casting/bringing a temp immunity skill.

Might make the two-three turned defend then attack moves interesting.

Have titain guard get level 1

Base gilga level 2

Two celestials get a 1 or a 3 like avidity on realms

I was also thinking about a way to have healing become a passive ability. But I kinda flopped

[modern carbon]

Boosting skills that guarantees ward turns could be a way to go, it stays in line with the idea of being this ward tank

So guarding strikes, jump, riposte, horizontal slash

You could make that a AV/TG/Gilga thing like avidity easily

[low crystal]

I mostly wanted to speed up turns. Most of the time gilga/tg can live through any raid. It just takes many turns. To save time on casting db/dc/high penetration moves would be a great way to increase the creep speed. Without making big number bigger

[modern carbon]

Could just reduce casting of all ward turn skills by 1 round and or increase effectiveness of them

[small canyon]

I think gilga chained shield in towers feels pretty good

Just wish towers in general were more engaging

Hoping Titan guild will fix that

[tulip obsidian]

will be even better on dispicle of finesse spec

[small canyon]

Yassssss!

[modern carbon]

What spec is that?

[modern carbon]

Is that in beta?

[minor hare]

woah

[lavish sluice]

I will give a brief account of my experience with gilgames after almost 2 years of playing, lv 250 and 36 ascension. I'm a Brazilian, and I'm using a translator.
for approximately 1 year playing in the same guild, I was the ONLY gilgames, as no one was interested in being one... in the last few months I had the joy of having 3 new players wanting to be gilgames, the question I had to answer the most for them was, "Why can everyone farm well and we can't? When are we going to become as strong as other players?" but I was always reluctant and encouraged them to continue. However, this week in a pvp test, I lost ALL the fights against a BEO lv 246 with 6 ascension... Heavenly Beo, because simply his little dog, killed me turn 1.

[crude star]

Gilga is completely overpowered, and anyone who has Gilga with AL knows very well what I'm talking about.

-Very statuses
-Safely perform game events
-Hits a lot with little in pvp (with penetration)
-Recovers and starts with a lot of guard

-It is the strongest class against the weak, which in the face of active guard and recovery can do nothing
-The spike shield skill is hitting enough, do you want 101%?!
-Whoever has high AL destroys in pvp and does events like tower and 50 anguish with ease.

for those who feel weak, there is AL for that.

My team is made up of only strong guys, all with over 30+ AL, they're there laughing saying they're going to buff the class more, don't be silly, it's all to make the guys at the top even stronger.

[novel bone]

I'm Gilga, I'm from the same kingdom as him and I can guarantee that he was the only one who was laughing there

[hardy imp]

Gilga is undeniably strong in raiding (safe and fast raiding of all kinds) as well as territory defense. It's also clearly not great at endless and hording, which is where concerns show up about dedicating to a class that has somewhat stunted progression.

I think the more important discussion is about warrior identity. Spiked Shield has been gilga's sole shtick for like 3 years now. It's a fun skill, it's a cool skill, but surely there's more to warrior than this... right? Especially when we're considering AV and TG before Gilga. What is it that warriors can do that is uniquely "warrior" -- what should be emblematic of warriors? Avidity for the entire thief line, bestial bonds for the entire valhallan line... these show a solid path forward on class design imo.

SS can and does get used by every other class (well, maybe not heretic outside of some crazy people, but including stuff like GSA now). Locking it to the class with a hidden multiplier has always been questionable imo. There's a whole topic on it ( https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1149440235957145610 ), but it's a perennial discussion. It seems to me that in an ideal world every class can use every skill without asterisks, but gearing and unique passives lean classes toward using certain skills. Gilga ward regen implies it can/should use skills that cost ward, for instance, but that effect could be more tightly coupled.

T8 is a good place to look for when endgame identity starts firming up.

Arcanic gets Avidity, the first time it shows up in the thief line.
Grand Attuner gets Paired Essence2, a reliable autosummon.
Freyr gets Bestial Bond2, the first time bonds rise above the level1 flavor bonuses.
Gods get "The Old Gods", random temp ups in combat.

Nekro and Atlas Vanguard are behind the times. Arguably "the warrior thing" from the current design is Siphon Ward... but MP is not nearly the problem it once was in a world of event gear with +mana on it, amities, etc. But maybe the warrior thing is about bonuses when you lose ward (including self-inflicted ward loss)? Temp ups on ward loss, damage to enemies on ward loss?

[low crystal]

I think it would be great to have a identity synergy. But the reason avidity was introduced was turn economy issues with thief.

Maybe the problem statement for gilga is:

“How to deal damage without crit or spiked shield identity”

Maybe some combo moves? If A and B skills are used in a order an effect will be produced? But if B then A is used there is another effect?

[reef vector]

I feel your pain, my friend, I am the only gilga in my 250/29AL kingdom, I suggested the spiritgarm build to my students, now I'm getting hit in the head by this shitty dog

However, I will only play gilga and always gilga, I only used beo with exp from 200 to 250

Our time will come 💪🗿

[rustic olive]

The dude had to make a fake account to express his opinion. So sad.

[novel bone]

Yes, that's after I explained things to him as if he were a 5 year old child

[spare widget]

That's the trick, how to make Gilga better for earlier t10 players and less geared and ascended folk without making the Spiked Shield playstyle increasingly better and making the 50+ ascensions in nearly all BIS gear monsters. Personally I don't feel Gilga needs to be any stronger at raiding with SS and some of the more recent changes with Ursa have made some crit builds pretty dang good too. But it's that early t10 experience and those other content areas where Gilga just needs a little nudge imo. Something for the warrior line that says, I am a warrior, I am the king of armored combat and a master of weapons.

[lavish sluice]

the point where I see gilga's biggest flaw is in farming, I don't want to make comparisons with characters with very high AL, why should this be mandatory, every class with a lot of AL must be strong, the problem is that gilga is initially very bad at If you play, your farm is extremely slow, your build depends almost exclusively on items and events, with great difficulty in dropping. As for farming, the so-called farm sets harm the gilga 2x, firstly because their attributes are worse compared to common items, and they practically give no guard, which makes the gilga a BEO without a Follower.

[ashen bear]

Possibly just a bandaid fix but would be nice if there was a questing/trialing shield type item

[flint geyser]

@crude star
Say the guy who don't have the balls, so he made a new account just for this.(@ andremega0694) can't take serious trolls.

[novel bone]

Firstly, he is an RS with 74 asc, all his commotion is due to the fact that he cannot beat a Gilga with 20 asc less than him. His references are the Gilgas from the top 100 and the fear of any change drastically increasing the power of these players and taking his dubious gameplay to an even more dubious level.

Seriously, we're discussing a class identity issue, we're not even asking for an overpower buff.

[novel bone]

Wow this is a very interesting idea, it has my support

[low crystal]

Imo it would have to have minus pet/summon stats, or proc and spread call of dumber. Otherwise it still wont help our class. But push the whole sand box further ahead.

[modern carbon]

Gilga is supposed to be the ward class or tanker classes and this is my stats as beo and gilga

[royal hamlet]

deity:

[modern carbon]

This is deity

The exact same gear between gilga/beo/deity and yet gilga falls behind beo/deity in ward. The very thing gilga is supposed to be about.

Why does beo have almost 4k more ward and why does deity have almost 12k more ward.

In t8/t9 I lvled up as AV/TG and I felt strong compared to paper-like arcanic/nyx. I didn't have issues raiding or even farming but once I hit t10 it feels like the warrior line hits a wall where the others it's just another step.

[royal hamlet]

deity have the highest def and res.

high hp and mana, so highest ward

king of base stats

[modern carbon]

Deity can have the higher base stats but with the same gear should not have higher ward than Gilga.

Gilga is defined as being the ward class no other class should have a higher ward than it with the exact same gear.

[flint geyser]

Been saying and asking for something like that but nothing yet, the dev are MIA about another "balance" to the class.

[lavish sluice]

If Gilgames is supposed to be the guard class, why do other classes achieve the same thing or more than him, with the same equipment? the right thing would be for gilga to have the highest guard compared to other classes using the same items

[low crystal]

I think that gilga is the scaling class. All other classes scale at a low rate then gilga, and due to that it has poor stats till you get really rolling.

Note that “rolling” means dropping hundreds if not thousands of scrolls at different points in the year. Ballin and riftfall specifically.

I think that there should be a neutral game gilga can play with. Maybe focused on non crit multi hitting skills. Purifying strikes were awesome back in the day. Something to that effect.

I dont mind that gilga takes investment. But I think there are some quality of life changes that could ease the power spike. Cele weapon was a great example. But to add an ability one the classes is what I think we should focus on

[frigid dirge]

Hey friends - definitely agree that Warrior classline is feeling a little flat lately, especially with the recent additions and attention to other classlines. We do believe it'll be a good candidate for a change soon

From the balance perspective, it's currently one of top performers. but even so, it's the least played.

Some ideas we're wanting to tackle:

1. How can we provide Warriors the ability to deal consistent damage without relying on the one-trick-pony realm of Spiked Shield, etc
2. (follow-up) How can we provide this ability while allowing the player more gear variety (for boosters, less Ward focus, etc)
3. How can we make the class exciting again in-battle

The studio does not make any guarantee that Gilga will always have the most Ward of the classlines, simply due to the way Ward is calculated. I'm not sure that tidbit is vary relevant in conversation of Gilga's ultimate performance. Gilga should have the most viable options for using that Ward pool, however - that's the deal.

Won't have much time for discourse today - just wanted to pop in! Cheers

[earnest furnace]

Appreciate the insight, thanks Odie!

[raven axle]

Thank you, that means a lot to know you guys are on top of it. Thanks 😊

[flint geyser]

Yup really appreciate the knowing you are around here.

[low crystal]

Thanks for the drop in Odie! Really appreciate the summary here. Thanks for the hard work 🏆

[low crystal]

An Idea for a passive or two to spice things up:

Passive: “Press the Attack” When using skills like: sword play, horizontal strike, riposte, X slash (1,2,3) there is a chance to cripple your foe. Crippled foes take more damage from multi hitting moves (similar to wind blight from quetz) and no damage from multi hitting crit moves.

Level 1 comes out at blade master. TG and VG have level 1 and 2 respectively. Gilga has 2 herc has 1 ursa has 3.

Passive: “Momentum” When using a skill that buffs and deals damage there is a chance that the buff will be twice as effective.

Level 1 TG and VG. Gilga level 2 Herc level 0 Ursa level 3

[floral rain]

I think gilga has no problem with damage.

[flint geyser]

End game gilga yes, early gilga has a lot of problems.

[floral rain]

Which class doesn't?

Oh yeah, GS

But others do

[flint geyser]

Not as much as gilga but ok.

But happily to be proven wrong about that, bring numbers

[low crystal]

Agree. Note that nothing buffs spiked shield gameplay. The exact gameplay you are referring to in this comment.

Additionally. This can open up different valuing of gear for gilga, which would be huge for the over all community as it opens up more ways to play the game.

Cause atm if you dont have good arisen Avalon armor set or if you dont have an amazing spiked shield. Gilga is a hard class to love

[floral rain]

How do you think buff being more effective would work?

[low crystal]

You know how sword play has low chances of buffing the player. On a successful proc of a buff. There would be another roll to see if you instead got upgraded from a temp up 1 to 2. The chance to “upgrade” the temp buff you get would scale from level 1-3 applied to different gilga classes like avidity.

Important notes: it only speeds up that kind of play, as if you had a spiked shield build, you would be using a whole different skill set load-out that doesn’t include the listed skills. And you dont have many skill slots, so it would be hard to double dip into both ward based passives and this new “warrior play-style” passive

[floral rain]

So kind of helping newbies to do things better?

Well it's nice. But I don't think this effectiveness thing goes okay with NF.

[low crystal]

In general. I dont want gilga to get better at what it (does SS raiding). I would like other options then “to just stack ward and get als to play the game”

Thats up to Odie and Co. looked like they were talking about ways to diversify play. It was just an idea in that same vien 😊

[inner arch]

for spiked shield yes, but isn't there any other build for earlygame ? How does warrior's pavane or guarding strikes work here ? not optimal and you won't have as much damage as other classes but your do have better defenses with ward regen.

[flint geyser]

Other options yes, unfortunately because of how the game has evolved any game play is so slow compared to any other class, so why you want to play a class who took double+ of time to advance on any part of the game? Not to mention almost any class now can have the survivability of gilga without losing the dmg.

[inner arch]

Same problem as deity I see. You've a class that have lower offense because you're supposed to have better defense, but the game evolved to a point that everyone has enough defense even the "glass cannon" classes. Maybe it's time to end the tank / dps fantasy in the game. Everyone go boom boom.

[flint geyser]

Yeah, I been hearing about deities problems too, but we are advocating for gilga on this thread, so.

[inner arch]

What's the problem of saying the word deity to describe the problem. Gilgas are a little sectarian or what ? Every time you freak out like I'm trying to steal your toy.

[tulip obsidian]

This is a gilgamesh thread where we discuss gilgamesh things

Its in the name

[inner arch]

following that logic, you shouldn't be allowed to compare gilga performance to any other class in the thread, or you're allowed to speak about other classes only if gilga is worse.

and it also completely ignore the main point of my message just because it contains the word deity

[tulip obsidian]

Sorry i haven't actually read your message been a long day

[flint geyser]

I don't have any problem with any other class, but this is a gilga thread, not a general thread, that's all.

But following your logic why you keep coming to a x class thread to discuss about other class?
Wouldn't be better to make a especific thread fir that class?

[inner arch]

I didn't talked about deity problems specificaly, just confirmed the fact that the problem exists on gilga as well as on other classes. Th last 10 off topic messages are on you

[flint geyser]

Probably answering off topic too.🤔

[inner arch]

also if you want to keep it a gilga only discussion, why not create it in warrior class discussion instead of discussion-threads where everyone is talking

[flint geyser]

I don't create this thread ask @spare widget why he create this thread here.
I am just following the discussion.

[minor hare]

After I switched to Deity this just popped up the other day XD

My whole gilgamesh set is perfect and near perfect items lol

[modern carbon]

I'm at 40 kills and haven't gotten anything better then 113

[lavish sluice]

Thanks for the Arisen Rift Judgment" where no new items are for gilgames, once again the preferred classes are benefiting but now, I'm giving up on gilgames

[tulip obsidian]

Thats a wierd take

Chestplate is definitely interesting

[merry osprey]

Well there are warrior gears there, the chest is interesting but wouldn't be ward related

[spare widget]

I thought some of the gear looked neat myself, especially if non spiked shield play gets some attention

As it seems it might

[merry osprey]

Who knows how far off that is though

[tulip obsidian]

Rift Razor might be good for base gilga ultimastrikes

[spare widget]

soon ™

[merry osprey]

Yeah katana looks ok however a finesse gs definitely outperforms it.. I think a Ymir would too

[spare widget]

#1130839743706448034 message

Personally I thought we'd have seen you all kicking in some more thoughts on the 3 questions Odie asked

[merry osprey]

Those are what the devs are asking themselves though

[spare widget]

Well sure but they do care what we think

[merry osprey]

I'm silly I forgot the razor passive. That'd be best used in dual wielding for sure.

Separately I think some sort of revenge passive would fit thematically and build wise

Perhaps a per-turn calculation damage boost based on lost ward

[knotty bridge]

I will like speak about an gursa noCrit but else say up M1 of... I haven't idea

Otherwise a friend told me that a gilga that does damage depending on its def can be funny

I would like an rework for Strikes of Ursa, I only tested it on the beta but 3 turn so as not to miss his strike, I think it don't hit hard enough

[inner arch]

Those are hard questions as going away from ward gilga looks very similar to the concept of gilga Ursa. I could see a frenzy stance that disable your ward and convert it to attack. You use it, it starts draining you ward 20% each turn and when it's empty you exit the stance. Ward regen disable during the stance. Like a berserk on ward if you want.

[frigid dirge]

which is the preferred class here? and how are they benefitting?

[low crystal]

That would be cool as long as the passive was shifted somehow. Ursa is in a tough spot atm IMO. High stats, but the lack of a t10 passive is highly noticeable.

[low crystal]

Some sort of combo might be interesting. If you use X, Y, Z skills in order then you get some bonus

[inner arch]

BeoH also don't have a T10 stats passive but it works so I don't think the real problem is this. Maybe the 2H weapon buff could be higher.

[low crystal]

Feel free to give it a shot and let me know 😃

[inner arch]

i don't have it and won't spend 200k shard for it. All I say is that both classes passives looks similar and one is performing while the other is lacking.

the difference being BeoH have hybrid monster 3 to further boost its damage, while GilgaU have a 2H passive that don't boost as much as hybrid monster. If it was on par it could be competitive.

[low crystal]

Agreed. I did pay for it and have tried it in dungeons and raids. That is why I was reporting it was underperforming. It is unable to do content in a meaningful way in booster gear. While simultaneously loosing a ton of damage when it comes to raids.

Its not that it isn’t remarkable at any thing, a complaint that some classes have. It is the worst option for all content.

Side bar, I would like to go back to Odie’s post from a few days ago.

[merry osprey]

Know how summoners paired essence works, well what if with warrior tree, skills in slot 1 maybe up to slot 2, get a chance to double cast when used. It could be limited to single turn skills, and it could be restricted to skills that don't consume ward

[spare widget]

It's pinned, should be able to hit it fast that way

[merry osprey]

It could require the mana for both still, or maybe the double is casted for free

[spare widget]

I think there have been several good suggestions that while maybe not complete in and of themselves go a long way towards at least giving some ideas on how to go forward on the 3 points mentione din Odie's post.

Feel free to review them here: https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1122705721281220628/threads/1130845076369719316

To me I think, what exemplifies a warrior? A warrior is the master of combat, of arms and armor. Valhallans have their mastery of pets exemplified even more through Bestial Bonds and their call abilities, increasing the interplay with their pets. Thieves have the whole distraction thing down with Avidity, and Mystic Feather allowing them to gain extra turns and evade your attacks.

What does that look like for Warrior? Yoshi has a good suggestion regarding stances, at least I think that was his. Should warriors gain battle stances similar to valhallan calls? Should they gain weapon Mastery or armor mastery abilities above and beyond the default specialization bonus that all classes get with certain weapons? Does the choice of armament they fight with effect their combat style as per the suggestion I tendered?

What is the warrior class fantasy and how do we address that?

Beyond that, how do we add some excitement without making it overly complicated to play? Especially in the earlier game of T8, T9 amd earlier T10 when people interface with the classes and decide what tree they really like?

[ashen bear]

I really like the idea of the stances that consume ward. One thing I was considering was that if they're % ward based they would actually be more effective on classes that have less ward. So it would be better if it was either a static amount or gave increased bonuses based on ward spent.

[spare widget]

Think of them like calls, where they'd most likely just fail on non warrior classes

[ashen bear]

That works, but still think it's a little strange that the ward cost would almost incentivize lower ward numbers

[spare widget]

Why would you want to incentivize higher ward numbers anymore? One of the problems with the class currently is a lack of variety of gear because we feel like we need to maximize ward. If playstyles which did not push ward were more varied, then gear slot choices open up tremendously. That's my thinking anyway

[ashen bear]

That's fair.

[low crystal]

I think a small passive that is about wearing a set of gear. And that is rewarded in some way would be cool

[earnest furnace]

You mean like the full set? like arisen avalon helm, chest and legs?

[tulip obsidian]

I dont think that would necessarily be a good thing, it would create the "need" (FOMO) of grinding every event gear set at 195%+ and thus burn people out

[inner arch]

isn't it already the case tho ?

but indeed i don't think it's a good mechanic for other reasons (limiting the build crafting for exemple)

[merry osprey]

That was suggested before. I like that idea but it's not necessarily class specific

[merry osprey]

BUT if the bonus was worth it, lower tier gear might become more acceptable to use

[spare widget]

It would probably be too much work and add to gera insanity with the huge gear pool out there, but that does give me a crazy idea of each major gear type giving like a 'Bestial bonds' style bonus to warriors

[merry osprey]

I think it was mentioned somewhere before but you can take the bestial bond concept and apply it to weapons the warrior class uses

[inner arch]

Bestial bond is not really balanced to this day so I don't think odie will do a rework of that scale anytime soon.

[tulip obsidian]

Still my points stands. I'd like the idea from strahd better where you got individual bonuses depending on if you dualwield / use a twohanded weapon or an offhand #💡│suggestions message

[sharp ledge]

Seeing some kind of stance feature, or something that allows more ward skills to do damage out side of just SS would be good. Ward of Light, or similar, you'd still have to be careful of loadout and what you are fighting against, but having more options then you push this button and that's it is always good imo.

[minor hare]

Heart of Change next update woohoo! Can switch all my AL to Deity.

Tbh what I'd like to see is a merge of Deity and Gilga classes. Like use Deity base, but just add gilga ward regen and the effectiveness gilga has with spiked shield to it.

[frigid dirge]

We've got good opportunity to give Gilga something unique soon. I'd rather see it become more unique then tacked on to another class

[minor hare]

Interesting

[marsh laurel]

Check beta folks

[ebon totem]

[low crystal]

Anyone with beta have a screen shot?

[tulip obsidian]

@low crystal

[low crystal]

Thanks a million!!!

[tulip obsidian]

Base Gilga

• Siphon Ward II -> I (Siphon Ward III is now Siphon Ward. There’s only one, and it has the value of III.)
• removed Guardian (Guardian is not going to exist in the next iteration of Area Control.)
• added Colleteral Damage V

Gilga Ursa

• Siphon Ward III -> I (Siphon Ward III is now Siphon Ward. There’s only one, and it has the value of III.)
• added Colleteral Damage IV

Gilga Hercules

• removed Guardian (Guardian is not going to exist in the next iteration of Area Control.)
• added Colleteral Damage IV

[low crystal]

Interesting to put the 5 stack on base gilga. Seems like the jury might just say the base is better then ursa in all things. Ovi gotta play with it

[tulip obsidian]

All other Warriors got Colleteral Damage 1-4 while losing Siphon Ward

Globe Holder isn't a meme anymore

Unlock on base gilga

Please, before any of you come to fast conclusion test it first

[low crystal]

Once it comes out on ios 😅

[marsh laurel]

It's the whole Warrior line, not just Gilga btw

[tulip obsidian]

Feels like a built in less effective sequencer

[jolly pivot]

I literally can cry now for Happy 😭

[royal hamlet]

would the base status adjust?

the att

[tulip obsidian]

Attack stayed the same but magic got buffed

Although that could just be a typo 765 675

[royal hamlet]

thank you sir

[tulip obsidian]

+90 magic is also +68 attack for any selene hands build

[royal hamlet]

not directly improve prenetrate

[jolly pivot]

I am 225 on beta i can't try 😔

[tulip obsidian]

you can make a sandbox character

[jolly pivot]

Oh

[tulip obsidian]

that will be 250 and have enough resources to go to ~20 ascensions

just go to the title screen and create a new character

[knotty bridge]

Why Siphon Ward 1 for base gilga ?

[jolly pivot]

I am stupid, i dont understand how work the new ability and passive 😅

[remote osprey]

I never understood what this did anyway lol

[remote osprey]

"Removed Guardian"

What's this line referring to? My brain isn't braining before coffee.

[remote osprey]

Ah

Cheers

[jolly pivot]

Umh 199.000 of Ward, 2 zerk, deif and the activation of passive i make 23k more dmg with collateral dmg

[simple sage]

Hello there, wishing the Odie himself see me.

Removing Guardian and adding Collateral damage from basic Gilgamesh and Hercules feels more like nerf than buff to me.

What the Gilgamesh classline really wants is that the Gilgamesh Hercules desperately needs Steadfast II to make the class playable, viable and enjoyable. I would love to play the class but without the Steadfast II it's such a pain really. This is what I actually pray for 🙏

[jolly pivot]

I exspect a Little more dmg 😅

[remote osprey]

With sweep, each hit has a chance to proc the Collateral Damage effect?

Could be great for dungeons then

[tulip obsidian]

Yes

[remote osprey]

Fantastic

[jolly pivot]

With my mai have 167k of Ward and buffed so much to deal only 15-20k of more dmg isnt so much worth

[tulip obsidian]

Wish i had a globe holder on beta to test it for endless

[marsh laurel]

I have a bit on this weekend but I can maybe try do some mirrors for folks if they request them and are patient with me

[simple sage]

@marsh laurel Hello there, buddy. Is there any chance that we could see Steadfast II being added to mr. Hercules?

[jolly pivot]

I don't know but only for me that not change tò much? 😅 For Gilgamesh without 20 AL and 200k plus of Ward isn't much worth to use (i speak for.me that 167k Ward of Gilgamesh and 9 AL) i don't like that for now, but i wait to see in the future a different approach of this passive and ability

Because i need to activate the ability and Lost Ward regen, try to Active the passive in the First 2 hit when deif Is Active or deal 0 dmg and all of this for only 10-15k

[flint geyser]

Honestly I was expecting a bump to his stats, especially if we are going to lose guardian.

[jolly pivot]

Is not worth for entry gilga

[flint geyser]

Collateral damage seem interesting but is a random chance, so not really sure about that.

[jolly pivot]

And i don' t understand why Is random

[wanton idol]

Seems like a pseudo double cast from what I'm testing right now

So if anything, it might be most useful for chained shield aoe tbh

[flint geyser]

I really hope is not all we get, because right now looks a little lack luster.

[spare widget]

Try playing it for a few hours in various bits of content, then make a summary of things you like about it and things you don't.

[jolly pivot]

I make
4 raid and 2 dungeon and i don't like 😅

[remote osprey]

I know this is the Orna server but will the Gilga update be coming to the HoA beta any time soon?

[flint geyser]

I ask for mirroring my character but no luck, so not really a test.
But again just looking in the numbers, no bump to stats, lose guardian, and maybe gaining only a good skill, doesn't look to brilliant.
Edit: for clarification purposes, yes I was one of many saying I would trade guardian but we were asking for Hercules to have steadfast.
Collateral damage seems good but is random.
No stats bump just look on live pvp to see it how bad gilga sucks.

[spare widget]

Be patient on the mirror please, Dangy said he had stuff going on so it might be slow

[remote osprey]

I made a sandbox character and got it to AL 20, but yea the lack of gear/adorns makes it hard to test stuff lol

[marsh laurel]

Literally mentioned mirrors not long ago and don't see a request from yourself @flint geyser, so let's not go telling folks not to bother please 😉

Scroll up, message was here:
#1130839743706448034 message

I'll try, got a lot on. It's nearly 11pm here and I'm out all tomorrow but I'll try when home later in the day folks 🙂

[flint geyser]

Was in the beta thread the one before this, but you made the cut literally 2, 3 players before my turn🤷

[marsh laurel]

That has nothing to do with this, at all 🤔

#1130839743706448034 message

Three hours ago 😅

[flint geyser]

So we have to asking every single beta?

[marsh laurel]

We don't do these every beta, I literally just offered to do them for folks. Ha, just click the linked message mate it's right there!

[frigid dirge]

Some things to note, as they may not be clear:

• Siphon Ward III is now Siphon Ward. There’s only one, and it has the value of III. I and II were just outclassed values in the modern game

• Guardian is not going to exist in the next iteration of Area Control. It can stay now, but it will need to go later

• Stat buffs do not solve the problems that we’ve documented needing to solve - we’re looking for engaging solutions that can even be geared into

[flint geyser]

I know that, but strahd say to test firts, and I just answer I don't have a mirror there, then process to say I ask before, that's all, anyway if you have the time please could you make a mirror when whatever you have the time, thanks in advance

[marsh laurel]

Yep! Like I said I'll do some for folks when time permits.
Just let me know with a tag and include your in-game names 🙂

[flint geyser]

Dorttan, and thanks.

[simple sage]

@frigid dirge Hello! As I mentioned above, adding Steadfast II for Gilgamesh Hercules would, in my view, solve a lot of the concerns that the endgame gameplay of the warrior classline has

[proven aspen]

I am testing it on beta with a low damage weapon and only normal attack on a boss (Hades) but it seems my col damage proc is always 0

[frigid dirge]

What would the tradeoff be? Gilga Herc has debatably the best survivability in the game right now. Adding Steadfast II could leave it near immortal

[coarse terrace]

Steadfast II might be too much for GHerc. CD IV -> SF I would be cood tho

[simple sage]

In fact, Hercules is practically unplayable at a competitive level without Steadfast

[frigid dirge]

Depends on how you look at it competitively. it's currently ranked #3 for pvp offense

[remote osprey]

Steadfast 1 would be a nice addition

Still less than the other two, but not completely vulnerable to status

[simple sage]

Hercules is not bad for offense, but for defense and for PvE gameplay, endlessly dealing with status effects is incredibly limiting as a Warrior

I tested Hercules for a very long time. Unfortunately, I had to leave it, although I would have liked to play it otherwise

Unfortunately, the vulnerability to status effects makes him almost unplayable

[marsh laurel]

Adding steadfast to Hercules just makes it better Gilgamesh, which is uninteresting.

Tradeoffs are great. It's still very good for raiding if you equip an immunity accessory or two

[coarse terrace]

Even with CD I don't think anyone would choose GHerc over base Gilga

[simple sage]

Yeah but Hercules suffer in PvP defense

[marsh laurel]

Use immunity gear, or use base Gilga for that.
They share Ascensions, it doesn't need to be better than base Gilga for all content 🤷

I use Hercules for raiding super regularly

[simple sage]

Well I am pretty much forced to play basic Gilgamesh which is kinda sad to me when the other classes really benefits from their new versions. But make a rules, I just share my opinion

[marsh laurel]

All good, let's focus on the cool new passives and feedback on those 🙂

[flint geyser]

Second chance, take.

[frigid dirge]

interesting

[tulip obsidian]

Take Guardian and Second Chance, steadfast is worth gold

[flint geyser]

I am really interested on the last part, could you share a thought about that.

[frigid dirge]

The part about stats? what would you like to hear more of?

[flint geyser]

Yeah, you looking to engaging solutions, have idea already into it.

[coarse terrace]

Do you?

[flint geyser]

I mean if not stats wise, then gear, or passive skills, or something else completely different.

[coarse terrace]

New gear did not solve the problem, sadly. It made the conflicts between classes even worse. But I'd love to see new skills/passives, not just for gilga but for all classes.

[marsh laurel]

I know I said it earlier, but I'm not super pro making Hercules into better Gilgamesh.

It currently performs well for me in raids with immunity accessories, what's the big push for steadfast for? If just PvP, isn't it ok for base Gilga to be better at that?

[jolly pivot]

If i can Say something i prefer hebtake syphon Is Better for.mana sustain

Stead we have phoneyx leg, helmet, ymir amulet, fallen shield, great Spike shield

[marsh laurel]

Siphon Ward missing on Hercules can be painful for raiding, agreed

[jolly pivot]

And othee good item for malus

We Need mana sustain

[marsh laurel]

Just out of curiousity, the new skills and passives are not being touched on at all.

Are folks trying them?
Or is there an unwillingness without mirrors?

[flint geyser]

I don't know about others but to me steadfast is for horde content, which is 80% of the game play right now.

[tulip obsidian]

Haven't really had the time just yet. I'd like to stream some testing, especially atlas stance ursa endless later

[frigid dirge]

Just to remind everyone about the goals in this effort: #1130839743706448034 message

imo, Steadfast does not contribute to any of them

[coarse terrace]

I'd love to try them on out my current character, yes. 😅

[flint geyser]

Same

[marsh laurel]

Does that mean we can expect no testing without mirrors?

[flint geyser]

Do you want more accurate test?, or just a "I tried". So yeah a mirror would be better.

[small canyon]

It's very difficult to get a good feel for how some of these changes perform without a 1:1 comparison, and that kinda requires mirroring

[knotty bridge]

We have an idea of ​​the proc chance of collateral dommage?

[marsh laurel]

The mechanics on it all should function without that, like proc rates, stick rates of the added temp skills, synergy with AoE skills etc

I cannot get mirrors to you all right now, I'm not near a PC. You'll not likely get any until at earliest, late my tomorrow.

You should be able to test the rest without, and a lot of you have mirrored characters, they just will have a few less Ascensions

@small canyon I've definitely mirrored characters for you before, for example 🙂

[small canyon]

oh yeah, i'm mirrored

[marsh laurel]

My testing had it at around 15%, but I'd encourage testing again cactus

[small canyon]

I'm just saying I never got much from testing before you mirrored me

[marsh laurel]

You can all do this without mirrors 🙂

[tulip obsidian]

I dont really need a mirror, I'd just need someone with moondrops on the beta

To get the atlas stance

[marsh laurel]

Newly created characters don't have them?

[coarse terrace]

In that case, can you test it out for us, please?

[tulip obsidian]

I checked, they don't

[knotty bridge]

I don't just have a few less Al but I'll wait

[marsh laurel]

I can add you to a party and drop a heap from my character. Name?

[knotty bridge]

I was hoping for more, after that it's only in Beta

[tulip obsidian]

Mirror of Big Yoshi (2)

[marsh laurel]

Test, test, test!
Feedback etc 🙂

[tulip obsidian]

Oh nevermind its Mirror of Big Yoshi (1)

[marsh laurel]

Oh haha

Thanks

(1) didn't work either

[remote osprey]

Lol

[tulip obsidian]

Oh loool

Thats wierd

Just do mirror of big yoshi

[marsh laurel]

Don't put spaces after character names folks

That was my bad

Sent to (1)

[tulip obsidian]

Or any of these

[marsh laurel]

I'll drop them at your place

[tulip obsidian]

Wayvessel is open

Thanks dangy, I'll get to testing once I'm done woodworking

[marsh laurel]

Hopefully that's enough?

[jolly pivot]

I try the new passive and skill, for make dmg i Need to proc.with all buff and the First two Attack or i made 0 dmg, when this ALL try i proc the First or second Attack i make 10-15k and all this fatique for only that Is frustrating

[marsh laurel]

Depending on class, the splash damage should be in line with the values of 30 or 40% of the initial damage. If it isn't, it could have an issue. Perhaps provide videos to show Odie so he can fix if there is an issue?

[small canyon]

So the splash damage should have the same penetration, just lower damage?

[marsh laurel]

I don't know honestly, I'm testing with you all. Odie may periodically pop in to answer, or more likely will rely on the feedback to tweak numbers

If it doesn't seem to be affected by buffs and should be, it would be prudent to feedback I'd say!

[frigid dirge]

The 0 issue should be resolved now

[marsh laurel]

Alright guys it's my 12:30am, so I need to sleep.
I'll check in on mobile tomorrow, but am very excited that we're able to bring you guys something outside of a balance patch.

Appreciative Odie is giving this attention, so let's treat the opportunity well!

[frigid dirge]

yes, it's splashing a fraction of the damage

[jolly pivot]

Well if you have try to do, you see what i Say without problem!

[marsh laurel]

I apologise, I'm not fully following the sentence.

Odie mentioned fixing the 0 damage issue, if that's the issue

[small canyon]

So is collateral damage supposed to work against the cactus with ss3?

[royal hamlet]

All other class have reliable passive or special mechanism to ensure action turns but gilga. Mega Omnimancy, realm high dex and cele Dorado. pet and follower that keep action when uncontrollable.

realm even get a multi turns passive.

[marsh laurel]

Don't think there's any skills that it strictly will not work with

[small canyon]

Just hit it like 100 times and never got a proc

[royal hamlet]

gilga still fight with negative status and joke action turns

[frigid dirge]

Those are all RNG backed, so from a reliability perspective, they are no different than collateral damage

[small canyon]

Oh lol I wasn't in beta

[marsh laurel]

SS3 worked for me earlier, odd.

[small canyon]

Ignore me

[marsh laurel]

Oh man, really heh 😅

[small canyon]

Lol

[royal hamlet]

problem is no actions turns

[marsh laurel]

To add to Odie's comments - the benefit that collateral damage has over say avidity, is that buffs will be applied to the turn that it happens. In avidities case, a temp buff can fall off before you get your second turn, resulting in a double dip of RNG.

In a case where the proc rates feel right, collateral damage will feel nicer than some of that

[frigid dirge]

Here are the goals we are trying to solve: #1130839743706448034 message

Action turns was not one of them. If we get stuck comparing Gilga to other classes, Gilga will end up looking like other classes. let's focus on improving Gilga's identity

[marsh laurel]

*Warrior's identity! It's the whole classline folks!

[royal hamlet]

a powerful punching bag

[novel bone]

I did some tests and honestly I didn't think it was good. The new passive looks like "Hey take this extra damage". Gilga's ward and equipment issues continue.
On the other hand, I found the passive very interesting using Gilga Ursa.

[frigid dirge]

Could you expand on the "ward and equipment" issue that you believe it has?

Reminder that these are the goals in this effort: #1130839743706448034 message

[marsh laurel]

I'm wondering if folks are just using spiked shield in their tests?

This passive allows you to move away from that and dabble in other playstyles, and beef up things like horde dungeons and towers!

[jolly pivot]

I use Spike shield because what make love of gilga.is tankines and Spike shield, i don't want to move away from that

I want to use as much as i can because i love It 😂

[marsh laurel]

Good news then, spiked shield is great and you can keep using it!

A lot of this was done off the back off feedback that it's the only way to play Gilga, and it is uninteresting and leads to the gear focus being purely on ward.

[royal hamlet]

as the base stat dex and att limit the play style and flexibility

[novel bone]

Well, the biggest source of damage is the Spiked Shield, and to make the most of this passive it is to deal a lot of damage. Anything else on Gilga that isn't Spiked Shield isn't very appealing.

[jolly pivot]

Well strange feedback i assume, because i decide to take gilgamesh because is a tank and use skill base from Ward, people want to play something else Need to change class, or take celestial class like Ursa

You can't take a tank and play different if he created for be a tank i am confused 😅

[remote osprey]

@frigid dirge can Titan adorns be added to the Tiran Workshop's Grand Crucible again so we can better test for those of us without mirrors?

Sorry for the ping, I don't normally ping you directly like this lol

[marsh laurel]

Let's try not to ping Odie too much please folks - he is reading as able

[remote osprey]

Apologies

[haughty dagger]

Is there a way to update the beta with the latest version of our live character? It would be easier for us to test out some of the gears.

[marsh laurel]

No one has an issue with spiked shield, it is very strong and does not need to be stronger.

If folks were only interested in spiked shield forever for all gameplay, this wouldn't be happening 🙂

If you're only interested in spiked shield, you can rest easy that it's still good and keep doing what you're doing.

[remote osprey]

Mirror requests are being taken @haughty dagger, as Dangy has time

[marsh laurel]

#1130839743706448034 message

Mentioned a few times in here that I'll try to look at a few sometime my tomorrow evening (20~ hours from now)

[small canyon]

15% for Collateral IV seems correct

took me 306 swings to get 45 procs

dunno if there is a difference in proc rate between IV and V or just increased damage

[tulip obsidian]

seems to be similar to what dangy got

Current values appear to be:
15% Proc
25% with Pauldrons
25-40% splash damage

[small canyon]

Against single target, the new passive seems underwhelming, but guessing it is designed more for horde play. Proc rate isn't high enough to be useful in PVP or for endgame raiding other than the occaisional bonus damage

From that standpoint it seems to be an endgame warrior ability because it will need AOE to really feel useful, and chained shield at a minimum.

Outside of ranger or zwei builds, I'm not sure how much this offers TG/AV

[tulip obsidian]

I'll test that in a bit

[marsh laurel]

Swordplay/Warriors Pavane builds, even guarding strikes and Purifying Strikes builds should see a strict damage increase.

Early T10 folks won't see "build ward" as the only option too, hopefully

[small canyon]

I didn't test with multihit like WP/SP3, but are you saying each hit should have a chance to proc the bonus danage?

[marsh laurel]

No, not what I meant.

I'm saying that folks playing as non-spiked shield builds - a lot of what was fed back here as really not doing well in early T10 - should see a strict damage increase because of occasional procs of CD

If you're raiding, and CD is proc'ing, you're doing more damage

[small canyon]

Agreed

Proc rate seems a bit low though

[marsh laurel]

I'd agree with that

[small canyon]

Basically every 7th hit you get some bonus damage

[marsh laurel]

Unsure if the plan was to use Pauldrons a lot with this, or gear in future

If there's going to be gear that leans into CD, it'd be prudent not to overtune initially

[small canyon]

So spiked pauldrons seems to be similar to bloodshift in that it may drop off next turn or stay on for 30 turns

The increased ward usage may need some tweaking

I've been testing with G, Herc Cata with full prom feet C. Axe and where the ward depletion equalizes on SS3 is roughly 60% damage of what I'd do at full ward. So even when it's now proccing one out of 4 hits, I'm actually losing dps over just consistant SS3

[knotty bridge]

CS+CD+fomorian stuff It's good in hordes

[flint geyser]

Been testing the Collateral dmg, and have to say is going to be really good for horde.

[earnest furnace]

Dangy, is this the patreon beta or open beta?

[knotty bridge]

Open

[earnest furnace]

Any chance for an iOS test flight link in that case?

[knotty bridge]

If I'm not wrong we can do 5max at once

[simple sage]

Are the neverending Spiked Shield misses vs Fallen Realmshifters at high Anguish level intended, or is that just a bug that will get fixed?

[tulip obsidian]

i think the beta is android only

[earnest furnace]

Yes, right now it is, I'm asking if that can be changed.

[tulip obsidian]

It's likely an Apple thing not NFS

[small canyon]

This

Apple is just much more difficult to work wit for betas

[earnest furnace]

Maybe, but I have the release version of 3.7 already. Anyway, I'll let NF speak for themselves

[marsh laurel]

Odie announces Apple betas when he can make them work.

If one hasn't been announced, it's not been something he can make happen.

[earnest furnace]

Fair.

Does this count as an announcement? #game-announcements message

[marsh laurel]

If he hasn't given a testflight link, he hasn't been able to make it work.

[proven aspen]

I love the collateral damage, I hope the proc rate stays the same and we get more options on gear to boost it.

I have my doubts on the new spiked boots/pauldrons, they seem costly on ward but maybe I shouldn't use them both at the same time.

[sterile kettle]

Yeah i'd imagine you'd have to build into more regen to use more than one. I wouldn't know though. Too busy for beta rn

[proven aspen]

More regen or not using other skills that cost ward, so I guess it perfectly fits the goal of giving gilgas more options/identity

[hearty ruin]

Tested a bit, and while the numbers could use some tweaking (bigger chance, to begin with), it is a pretty nice passive. It provides gilga with pseudo-aoe in hordes, and pseudo-crit in single target scenarios.
Would be nice if the buffs worked more like stances/gaits aka being permanent until disabled.
It thematically fits with gilga's identity of fueling things with ward, while not just being spiked shield
Each "Spiked" buff incurs a 10% ward degen, meaning with gilga+cata+one amity, you can regen more than you lose on one buff, and you can easily outregen both with a celestial weapon. It also means, at lower levels, that you can use one of the buffs and purfying strikes / ward of light to maintain your ward level while dealing damage.
The passive's "pseudo crit" allows for further boosting the damage of SS (or other non critting skills) against a single target for those who are so inclined (a chance at SS dealing 40% bonus damage, while not as insane as a crit, is not insignificant)
The pseudoaoe is further boosted when dealing with actual aoe, since the proc chance is per target. This could mean you can get yourself some particularly powerful aoe builds. I can imagine gilgursa sweeping with zwei and this new passive to be even better, moreso considering how little they actually use their ward, making the spiked buffs extra affordable.

[proven aspen]

I like the stance like for the new spiked skills, but would you say that makes them mutually exclusive? @hearty ruin

[hearty ruin]

I don't think they should be mutually exclusive, no

unlike any other skill in the game, they have a cumulative cost that you gotta pay every turn

the tradeoff is losing survivability (and possibly bastille) for power. And if you want to doubledip, you should be able to.

What I meant by stance was mostly "On until turned off"

[proven aspen]

What about a 'spiked armor' in 3 levels which combines both, permanent like a stance

[hearty ruin]

that skill does exist, on the Globe Holder

which further makes me think it'd be really cool on Gilga Ursa

[jolly pivot]

stance isn't bad idea

[tulip obsidian]

I think Colleteral Damage V should be on Ursa instead of base.
Compared to RS and Beo / Avidity 3 and enhanced Bestial bonds (highest classline passives) are also on the celestial classes instead of the base version.
It's already the non Spiked Shield variant, so why not build on that?
Ursa doesn't rely on Bastille for stat scaling and thus the spiked buff spells will work better.

[small canyon]

Agreed

[remote osprey]

Having Globe Holder as a 1h or making a 1h variant of it would be nice

[tulip obsidian]

Sounds better as an offhand

[remote osprey]

Yea

Was thinking dw for GUrsa

But an Off hand option is cool too

Like a Katar

[small canyon]

i wish it was easier to test horde in beta

i only have my castle dungeon

[proven aspen]

There is an item to summon dungeons

Ode to the dungeon

[small canyon]

how does one get these things?

[proven aspen]

You get 5000 if you use the premade character

[small canyon]

Oh, I'm mirrored

[earnest furnace]

Create a new test char

Use the Ode to Dungeon

Go back to your mirror

[earnest furnace]

x40 lol, like I did

[knotty bridge]

Globe Holder passif has changed

[minor hare]

collateral damage I saw above - looks like a weaker form of a crit built in to all attacks then?

[tulip obsidian]

Try it out yourself if have access to the beta

[novel bone]

Is there any chance of reducing Strike of Ursa's turn from 3 to 2?

[inner arch]

I bit late to the Steadfast conversation, but what the point of steadfast if ever class have it ? Maybe that need for steadfast could be seen more as a status problem than a steadfast problem. Most of the non steadfast classes are saying that the game is unplayable without it.

[minor hare]

Oh says any opponent in the description. Interesting

[hearty ruin]

Of note, changing Globe Holder's type would completely break the entire event's theme

every weapon in the titans and giants event is two handed. Since. You know. The weapons' wielders are Titans and Giants. The weapons are enormous

[inner arch]

but why is mine playing with a little toy then

[minor hare]

I do have a 199% arisen globeholder...

[hearty ruin]

That's not an Arisen Globeholder, that's a Little Sparkholder

[proven aspen]

Drops from some fairy!

[minor hare]

Glad to see gilgamesh getting some attention, still think I'll be switching classes though

[hearty ruin]

What would you like to see that would make you not switch classes?

[minor hare]

Well, I've been testing out Deity and I got more view range, better stats, better orn farming in endless, better pvp experience...

[inner arch]

how come you've more VD with deity ?

[minor hare]

Helhest

[inner arch]

it has more adorn than fey surtr ?

[hearty ruin]

yeah by +1

[minor hare]

Yeah by 1 on each

[hearty ruin]

so +4.04% VD

[minor hare]

Makes finding towers a little easier

[hearty ruin]

If towerhunting, I recommend majistrate for a lot more VD

[minor hare]

There's a spec for VD too

[inner arch]

i can't even zoom out enough for my 900+ vd

[flint geyser]

Gilga ursa

[minor hare]

Yeah I know gilga ursa can

[flint geyser]

So no more vision then.🤔

[hearty ruin]

so does Deity just do everything gilga does but better?

[minor hare]

Though I haven't been fond of gilga ursa

[inner arch]

we were this close to have a 3rd deity player, don't try to change his mind !

[minor hare]

And I absolutely cannot stand gilga herc

[flint geyser]

Hey on the bright side he can support the game buying from runeshop to going back.🙃

[minor hare]

For the mostpart yes - but it does have the cost of getting all the gear you need for a deity

[knotty bridge]

My opinion: honestly I like the idea of ​​CD but it is missing something, maybe its chances of proc, according to my tests it has 2 times proc chance with SC but they almost never appear, I don't adhere to the new skills due to the consequent loss of ward for a buff that I find insufficient, I admit that I haven't tried it much.
It's a good initiative but I still see it as a hesitant step, when we were talking about change I was hoping for more skills in relation to defense stats and for gursa to be more oriented no crit.
This is just my humble first resentment and I will try to test further to see if I can provide any potential ideas.

[minor hare]

Because I have to use vastly different pieces for different things

Whereas gilga - was just spiked shield / ward gear for most part

[inner arch]

have you considered playing RS dorado ?

[hearty ruin]

Yeah the proc rate is currently 15% (iirc), and people thus far all agree it could use a lil bump, possibly(?) up to 25%

[minor hare]

RS dorado does look pretty wild too. My gilga has lost to them

[hearty ruin]

the ward loss is fine if you're not SS/CSing with it, or if you have ward regen to counter it, or if you don't care about ward at all (Ursa)

[flint geyser]

Don't take this as trying to convince to not do a sex change, but I think you looking wrong at how to play gilga, ss, ward, are just the cherry of the cake, either way enjoy your new life style.

[minor hare]

If only the heart of change wasn't so costly XD

[proven aspen]

It's pretty cheap in tower shards

[inner arch]

only cost 2.5 classes yes

[minor hare]

Yeah I've been grinding and upgrading tower to speed up the process. Had 40 floor for a while got it to 42 today

[inner arch]

don't spend too much, you'll need to buy deity celestials

[minor hare]

Oh I've already bought almost all the celestials

Only missing heretics, beo(a) and summoners

So 5 missing

[remote rivet]

Managing Spiked Pauldrons and Spiked Greaves with other temporary buffs may be a little too tedious. If having them both as a toggle on/off kind of thing is a little too much in combination maybe it can be treated as a "one or the other" type scenario like Gaits? Thoughts?

Currently, micromanagement of this in gauntlets and raids is quite tedious but definitely a great idea for the class.

Ps, absolutely love the class passive

[amber yacht]

Is this in open beta?

[remote osprey]

Yes

[amber yacht]

Wicked. I'll get into testing and pestering the actual gilgas I know to do the same

[amber yacht]

Okay so the extra hit thing is awesome feeling. Even as just a beta character gilga, seeing the extra damage spikes is nice. However, I feel the 2 new spiked buffs being temp buffs are extremely counter-intuitive and feels like I'm fighting against myself. I actually found gauntlets quicker to clear without micro managing them

Gonna try raids now

[remote osprey]

Yea it's a great idea but in practice it's slower using them

[amber yacht]

Mhm. Granted I main GS so I'm used to having to juggle temp buffs but this ain't a good juggle

[remote osprey]

So the Collateral Damage applies before Second Chance procs, meaning we cannot get free second chance kills. Dunno if that's the intent, but it's what I discovered.

[amber yacht]

Sooooo...question. Why not just give Gilga crit back instead of pseudo crit which just makes gilga more offensive like everyone else?

Why not a passive like granting defend when spending ward? Or gaining additional defenses in other ways?

Heck, could even be the gilga herc passive instead of pseudo crit

[tulip obsidian]

Intention of studio is to make non spiked shield builds more viable

[amber yacht]

Got'cha

[tulip obsidian]

@amber yacht

[tranquil axle]

If guardian isn't going to exist in the near future what happens to Warden?

I don't know about you guys but I'm not able to run gilg herc full time for land defense either, the lack of siphon ward and steadfast is too great. Sure I could run say rift guard helm for some mana siphoning but the res on that helm is so low mages destroy me. I would really like to use my celestial class for something more than a turn one ss3 for pvp offense, right now that's all I can really use it for and it feels bad

[coarse terrace]

"Use immunity gear for raids and dungs"

Sure it's good for PvP but we have GUrsa for it.

[amber yacht]

"Just play deity bro."

[heady zinc]

Sounds like area defense is being stripped

[small canyon]

I raid and tower exclusively with G. Herc. I know my opinion doesn't seem to be the popular one, but I don't mind running some immunity for the extra damage.

[tranquil axle]

I'm just talking about pvp specifically defense

And because we don't have a true separation of pve/pvp it means I'm never running gilg herc for towers or pve anyway because I just lose a bunch of land when I do

[small canyon]

Fair, I normally switch to Ursa for pvp

[tranquil axle]

Work really hard to unlock tower classes and use them 1% of the day because they are worse at one area of the game, that's my issue

[small canyon]

Ah, I think that's the biggest difference then because I don't play for territory.

[tranquil axle]

Also I'm thankful Odie and team are looking at the warrior line because I do believe it to be one of the least played, but NF should ask themselves... are these changes enough to make a Beo with spirit garm want to swap to Gilg? Does a RS now consider realm? I'm guessing the answer is no which in my opinion doesn't change the fact that it's the least played and has these problems

[small canyon]

but running ring of ankou and ymir charm on your pvp build and then just slot ss1, ss2, chained shield, and woo has won me a bunch of war fights on def when i'm raiding or whatnot.

[spare widget]

Ohh my goodness, I had to travel today and the thread went bonkers 😄

[remote osprey]

Lol

I'd been on the fence about HoC from GS to Gilga and this post made me pull the trigger

[spare widget]

I've only been able to do about 30 mins of testing so far, I am hoping to dig in for a bit more this evening and over the weekend.

So far, I have the following positives.
I like the direction on class identity with Collateral Damage.
The skills are interesting
The additional rng Damage definitely hits a bit different.

[coarse terrace]

I would wait until it's live. If it turns out to be below my expectations I'll HoC from Gilga to GS or Heretic.

Not sure how well it is going to work with AoE skills/spells yet

[remote osprey]

I think the general consensus so far is

1. proc rate needs to be boosted a bit (testing around 15%, 25% would feel a bit nicer)
2. spiked greaves/paldrons would be better as skill akin to Gaits, cast to turn on/off rather than temp buffs

[spare widget]

I also have the following concerns.
As things are set up right now, managing the skills is a bit tough, when you are in low ward builds the additional ward drain makes survivability more difficult for sure. Which still lends itself to big ward for hard content and if you are going to run big ward why not just run SS
Dex and missing is still a severe limiting factor, especially in harder content.

[remote osprey]

Works well

[coarse terrace]

Well

[small canyon]

I've run some ursa horde and haven't found the CD proc to be making much difference for sweep builds. If you aren't one shotting realms in t10 horde then the chance of proccing CD on the realm is just a lucky bonus from time to time

[coarse terrace]

It is 40% collateral damage on base Gilga, right?

[remote osprey]

Yea

[spare widget]

Unless you use the damage boost skill on it yes

[coarse terrace]

Are we sure that CD 4 and CD 5 has the same proc rate?

[remote osprey]

30% on the Celestials

[small canyon]

damage boost still needs it to proc

i ran with spiked pauldrons to increase proc rate, and just normal proc would be enough without the spiked greaves boost

I'd see that more as a buff for raids than dungeons

the proc rate IMHO is too low

[spare widget]

What do you think of my comments above Ainz?

[coarse terrace]

Chained Shield surely would not work well with these new skills 😅

Max ward regen was 35% per turn, no?

[spare widget]

From my experimentation with Chained and Spiked Shield in raids and towers, unless you are just trying for big hits you are ahead not to use the skills

[coarse terrace]

If you do not use ward consuming skills I think the base ward regen might be enough

[spare widget]

If you run either one and use Purifying Strikes as your spammable it works pretty well

in dungeons

[small canyon]

I'm working but have some additional opinions incoming after I finish this client appointment

[remote rivet]

You don't need a boost with chained shield CD if you're also rocking Parting Remark passive.

It's already overkill 🤣

Especially if you're also using some Gobannos gear.

I'd say add 5% to the trigger chance and we'd be good without it being too oppressive (considering all content PvP included)

[tulip obsidian]

I'd love a higher / guaranteed chance for CD to hit another target when my initial attack already killed it
currently you will hit for 140k on a 40k HP Realmshifter and CD will deal an additional 56k damage on the shifter thats already dead

[remote rivet]

Would definitely be nice if CD didn't hit already dead targets.

Would have to adjust where those procs sit on the stack. Adjusting that though might lead to bypassing second chance.

[small canyon]

that sounds like a feature and not a bug 😛

[merry osprey]

What if atlas's gear also had effects on CD? The globe holder new skill is cool for sure tho

We all want new cool 2 hand skills I'm sure

[remote rivet]

On paper the globe looks like a good option but tbh I think it's just going to be a fun gimmic that's a lot slower than normal.

[merry osprey]

I know the wep isn't an optimal choice for 2 handers but I'm gonna celebrate new interesting skills on gear

[remote osprey]

The problem with 2h non Celestial weapons is losing Celestial augments. Makes ward recovery hard for the Stance as well as the two CD buffs.

Oracle with 2 5% recovery and Bastille is 15%, how much is the ward cost for those skills and the stance?

[merry osprey]

Think I read 10% currently

[frigid dirge]

One option I foresee us being able to try is swapping them to stances, but then have collateral damage itself deal self ward damage instead of ward bleed per turn

That way, it’s about ward management over buff management

[flint scarab]

dafuq

[earnest furnace]

40x uses of the "ode to dungeon" beta item

[flint scarab]

ah its something like this

lmao i thought its a spot

[marsh laurel]

This is a relatively sizeable change to it and would be neat. It would still mean the use of 1-2 additional buff skills/stances to start dungeons or raids, but wouldn't mean using additional turns each time they drop off so would be appreciated.

Also helps maintain Bastille better for stats passive

[merry osprey]

Does that mean the ward damage would occur only when it procs? So like chained shield

[remote osprey]

Anyone been able to confirm if Collateral Damage can proc Parting Remark?

[merry osprey]

Parting remark?

[remote osprey]

Dollar Store Avidity

[merry osprey]

Is this only orna or is it aethric now

[remote rivet]

I love it.

Would the damage be the same % as the ward bleed per turn or would this be % of damage done is taken as ward damage?

Would also be hilarious to one-shot myself every now and again.

[remote rivet]

Murder avidity

As I said in the kingdom beta chat Chain Shield + Parting Words + CD is a lot of fun! Especially with some Gobannos gear.

[remote rivet]

I'll see if I can test that tonight :). Testing a ton of things with collateral at the moment and this just made its way to the top of the list.

[remote osprey]

Currently Collateral Damage is only on Orna Beta

Sadly

I wanna use my HoA character for it lol

[remote rivet]

I second this :p

[merry osprey]

Is it a skill or a passive I just got the beta set up

[remote osprey]

It's from the t5 and t9 blades of Finesse specs, a passive

When you kill an enemy there's a (50%?) chance to get another turn immediately

[merry osprey]

Whoooooaaah. Ok thanks

[merry osprey]

One thing I appreciate about Gilga is the low complexity/ moderate ceiling and I think this path would be more in line. Either way love the new stuff

[unreal schooner]

I like the current state of gilga herc. Here’s my personal experience as a gilga who went gilga herc asap and haven’t touched base since. I also did warrior line throughout entire leveling process. (Haven’t tried ursa)

Herc Raiding is clearly the specialty for this class. Even if both accessories have to be dedicated to managing immunities, it out performs base gilga just from the extra ward in the offhand. 10/10 enjoy.

Herc PvP is good too. It needs a little bit of help though. My experience is that I’m usually strong enough to overkill my opponents with my first strike in regular pvp. I won 2 coliseums in a row today. I just spam ss3 like I’m sweeping a dungeon. But, live pvp is rough. If they strike first, which is practically every time, my damage cannot keep up. My spiked shield attacks need my ward to do damage. I tried becoming more defensive and regenerative, but I can’t tank beo garm even at my tankiest. None of my non spiked shield attacks put a scratch on anything. None of my ward gear has foresight. I often duel my friend who is a realm shifter, and he can one shot me with hundreds more foresight than me, at my tankiest. If I had that much foresight, if I even could, I wouldn’t be able to do damage.

Now for horde dungeons, you’d think this is when I should use base gilga instead of herc. Nope, I am diety zwei sweeping with dual wield weapons. After all, as a gilga, all I ever collected were 1h weapons. I think it would be cool if an ascended ursa zwei could clear dungeons better than base diety zwei, which is what everyone warned me about when I originally inquired about a sweep build. This is interesting bc I never would’ve tried diety if I wasn’t looking for a better way to do dungeons. I’ve had a lot of fun with this class. But I wouldn’t have ascended two classes if I could do it all with gilga, where the vast majority of my ascensions are. My fey cactus gilga build was more potent than trying to sweep with gilga. I think giving ursa a damage buff to dual wield could be helpful since we got all these 1h swords. Or maybe create a dual wield spec that is a counterpart to zwei. Or maybe both? Maybe give herc the dual wield buff, he does has two shields in his sprite. Idk I don’t think I should give suggestions, just observations lol 🦧🦧 but here they come anyways.

If Gilga herc will never be good for AOE clearing ever, what if gilga herc could perform a better support role in a dungeon? Accepting it won’t ever clear fast like the other classes can, maybe double down as the tank. We already take the strongest enemy head on, with our single target damage. Give us a very effective taunt to help redirect damage more consistently than provoke 1 or 2 can. Like, considerably more consistently. Maybe a few stances unique to gilga could facilitate this since I’ve seen that mentioned a few times. This stance could compete with stasis builds (maybe have too much synergy with stasis builds). Maybe this is when it makes sense to finally wear the two purple shields lol. And releasing a purple celestial shield with it. I just like the sprite okay.

Sow ward makes no sense to me. I’d rather have an ability that could take one turn, and give my ward to my party as extra ward or armor. Or maybe just replenish their lost ward. I’m not a healer, I’m a tank. If I AM a healer, I can’t wait two turns to sow my ward. I’d rather have a much weaker, 1 turn sow ward if that’s the case.

Whatever happens, I just don’t want to see herc raiding flipped upside down. I’ve built my whole character around this and would be sad if it changed. I have no attachments to chain shield tho, which is ironic bc that’s the original reason I went herc. Maybe make chainshield weaker and proc everytime? And then keep collateral on base and ursa or just ursa?

[coarse terrace]

Gilga Herc has so much ward but lacks sustainability. Trading survivablity for sustainability sounds awesome.👍♥️

[coarse terrace]

Try it out with bricriu's bow like realms do, in stead of chained shield.

[low crystal]

Looks like some awesome convos. I do like that a sweep build could be viable in dungeons as you arent stuck to dex so much with the psuto aoe

You just need to stack a ton of juice.

Maybe that is the warrior way. Overkill and survival

Personally I think that it might end up being a raiding buff for spiked shield. Hopefully or maybe there can be a shift in language to exclude that kind of play. “Non static miss chance skills have a chance to overkill” something of the sort

[hearty ruin]

Something that I think could be worth trying, if it is at all feasible, would be to treat the Collateral Damage as damage being applied one "instance" later

So it doesn't overkill targets / can possibly murder second chance

It'd probably be a change that would be as appreciated as a Chance increase in multiple target situations

Could be a tad too strong, but it's worth considering. Nothing wrong with erring on the side of power and then curbing it back

[low crystal]

Yah I like that idea John!

[remote osprey]

Give Herc the Option to use a Shield in Main Hand to match the sprite and give us a Celestial Shield as a GHerc exclusive weapon 😆

[remote osprey]

Tested, Collateral Damage does indeed proc Parting Remark

[austere kelp]

tl;dr Changes good, Forg likey

After some testing in the beta client with newly created characters, I'm positive the Collateral Damage passive is that little push we needed to make other builds count as competitive options. Spiked Shield will still benefit from it, true but it gives some bonus damage to a lot of other skills.
And I'm not only talking about Gilgamesh, the whole classline received a lot of love. Titanguard finally has something going for him besides just being a stepping stone for a T10 class.

Besides that, it opens up a few more options for semi-aoe clearing. That small oompf from Collateral Damage might be enough to help with proccing Parting Remark's effect from the new specialization. Paired with warrior's Fomorian gear, I can see some non-aoe skills become a viable semi-aoe option.

I genuinely don't know how could that change be perceived as bad. Siphon Ward 3 changed to 1 is just in name. It was already confirmed that the passive will be changed to have the same effect as SW3.
Removal of the Guardian passive is tied to upcoming(?) area control changes which were also mentioned before in this same thread

[proven aspen]

I think that tl;Dr is a strange acronym for 'managment summary'

[flint geyser]

IMO: collateral damage definitely a good way for to improve the whole class line.
The temporary buffs hmmm, definitely need a tweak.
And just waiting for some others alternatives odie could have for the class.

And just to be clear is not like we don't like the boost we have the misunderstanding was because we only saw the change "we lose this, we gain this" but not a explanation of why, so we assume that was "it" so yeah we jump to early with the pinch forks our fault apologies.
But again a little bit of communication between the dev and us would be better.

[remote osprey]

The point was to test it out and see how it performs lol. NFS has never come out an explicitly given direct info about most things, they like the player base to explore and discover how things work. That's why the Hidden Info excel sheet exists lol

[sour delta]

Ok what did i miss? Theres a lot that happened here. Can someone give me a TLDR?

[tulip obsidian]

Yeah but we cant exactly explore or discover that guardian will no longer be a passive in the future. Odie clarifying was very appreciated

[flint geyser]

One thing is discover and test new things, and other completely different cutting passives with out explanations. Lol guy.

[wanton idol]

Losing guardian is no big deal because we know a territory control revamp is on its way

It could be connected to that

In fact it probably is

Make it more of an even playing field

[flint geyser]

Yes now we know that, but we don't know that before, we only know the new skills/passives and the cuts, but no the why's

[remote rivet]

Damage is far too low with Briciru's unfortunately

[remote rivet]

New. Collateral Damage passive. Additional hit for 30% damage done. Good. NF make skills for it. Odie make skills better.

[wanton idol]

testing this out and its a really cool buff, the pauldrons and greaves buffs feel kinda bad to use, ngl

if i had to change them, i would make them a permanent effect

[remote rivet]

Odie addressed this far above

[wanton idol]

yeah i know, just my thoughts after testing it out

[remote rivet]

Heck, then you know a change is already coming 🤣

[unreal schooner]

Can’t wait to see how this turns out. I’m gonna finally download aethric on pc so I can do the beta

[tulip obsidian]

Not sure if gilga buffs are on the aethric beta

[remote osprey]

Not yet

[frigid dirge]

The Aethric beta is now on the live servers, so we won’t be able to experiment as much

[tulip obsidian]

Any opinion on this?

#1130839743706448034 message

[frigid dirge]

Would it lose CA? Or CA potency? Ursa being the best counter class and the best collateral class feels fairly potent

[tulip obsidian]

Personally i feel like CA should be reworked into a two turn passive.
First turn just says something like "player is preparing a counterattack" and on the second turn it will counterattack scaling with your own attack stat instead of reducing incoming damage and tripling it back.
But im not sure how others feel about this

[frigid dirge]

I would say it’s still potent enough with 2 turns. In PvE, the enemy would likely not react, and therefore damage is the same, in PvP, you’re then forcing the opponent to miss turns, so it has a strong side effect outside of damage

[tulip obsidian]

Sooooo CA potency? 😅

[frigid dirge]

If this were the course: #1130839743706448034 message

I would see V being appropriate on base, IV being appropriate on celestials

Base can remain as the most accessible CD options, Hercules can lean in a higher Ward pool’d CD, and Ursa can retain its PvP identity with a little added flare

[spare widget]

Just as a side note, Ursa's total lack of Ward regen outside of specs, amities, skills etc already lean towards making the Spiked shoulders/legs less potent on the class, especially since you have less base ward anyway

[wanton idol]

Agree, ursa feels like a coin flip PvP class with counter attacking and second chancing its way to victory

[unreal schooner]

I wonder if ward of light 3 could proc extra ward regen if the Collateral damage procs

[wanton idol]

Let me know your thoughts about this, but I have a couple of ideas for skills that work around the new collateral damage mechanic, these would be 3 buffs that function like gaits, which would be:

1-disable collateral damage to regenerate ward passively

2-increase collateral damage proc chance and dmg but lose ward per turn

3-disable collateral damage and lose ward per turn, but strike back when enemies hit you(scaling with your attack stat unlike counterattack)

unlocked by the 3 gilga celestials separately but usable on all of them

Thoughts? I think this would be the coolest thing ever

[spare widget]

I like Ursa and I play it in pretty much every content outside of raiding. But it feels like it needs a little something extra and of the Celestial variants I've toyed with so far, Collateral damage synergy with that particular celestial is the weakest. I don't think it would take much, maybe even adding some ward regen to Guarding Strikes 4 or something. The Ward of Lights are great but not when so much at end game is immune to holy. I guess the bright side of that is you still get the ward regen even if they are immune, just no damage or healing.

I do think Collateral Damage is an interesting mechanic though and should help bridge the gap for lower T10 Gilgamesh

Is there any chance of addinga 'stance/skill' called Spiked Gauntlets, that if you missed your target, it would take collateral damage instead?

One of the big problems still with base gilga is missing continually, little bit less with Ursa but still quite often in Anguish

[tulip obsidian]

Even more missing on full hp anguished Realmshifters 🥲

[haughty dagger]

What do you think if CD always hit something even if the initial skill misses?

[spare widget]

Well I am not sure about always hits if you miss, that seems maybe a bit too strong? But having a stance/skill that turned that on, maybe not so much?

[wanton idol]

Thoughts?

[spare widget]

Well #2 would just be combining legs and shoulders into 1

[wanton idol]

But a permanent ability like a gait so you don't have to worry about another buff to juggle, might also make it increase your accuracy but I can see that becoming too much from a single skill

[spare widget]

my biggest issue is getting to a point where I end up clicking more buttons to manage my Collateral Damage than I am doing anythging else, which if I was playing some strange Gilga Tamer build might be fun but otherwise...not so much

[wanton idol]

I have no issue clicking multiple buttons in facts I think it's more fun

That is ofc if the result is better

Like sure you could lazy raid spamming one button but by clicking 3 you should go faster I think

[novel bone]

I tested it a lot and what bothered me the most was the amount of misses that Gilgamesh gives when he's not using Spiked Shield. Ursa is even less but the base, my God, completely blind.

[novel bone]

Well, I'm being honest here, you can't do much with 200 dex 😅

[low crystal]

I think the overpen is a great idea. Instead of a higher number 50% of damage reapplied. I think the rate should be higher. Maybe a flat 33% reflected. With the higher tier/celestial classes having a higher/lower chance of over pen.

In my mind this lets gilga reliably do horde content with actual aoe as the dex issue is removed. But there is a downside of having to max out full damage potential.

Of course I should say this is all conjecture as I have IOS

[tulip obsidian]

Made a feedback post
#1130845076369719316 message
lemme know if i missed anything

[minor hare]

Just godforged a new shield for gilga today

all JoC's are legendary or ornate

That's the amity

I can't get this build much higher XD

Also yes I renamed the gear to funny names

[cursive folio]

Any changes to the t9 tank class?

[tulip obsidian]

Titanguard lost Siphon Ward II and gained Coleteral Damage IV

[minor hare]

I consider warrior more as a pseudo-tank

[tulip obsidian]

same on the celestials

[sour delta]

Sounds good! I mained gilga until 2022, gilga needs some love!

[sour delta]

I solod 800 rhadas and the best i got is a 180

[minor hare]

Yeah the shield was a hard one to get

[sour delta]

I killed 100 just today to get another 180 flat

[minor hare]

Didn't get a fey surtr above famed sadly

But a perfect arisen still better than the feys below orante

[marsh laurel]

Hi folks - I'm around now.
Reply to this message with your exact in-game name, and I'll sort some mirrors for the beta to test Gilgamesh out

Leave pings on for the replies please

[ashen bear]

Geppu

[marsh laurel]

I'll give a tick when I've done them, yours is done Geppu!

[ashen bear]

Thanks dangy!

[knotty bridge]

elixion,

[haughty dagger]

Akabane

[knotty bridge]

Thanks Dangy

[wanton idol]

Bruxx

I already have a mirror, but got some new gilga gear and Al's and want to see how it feels on my current char

[marsh laurel]

Will get to these after dinner sorry! Took my son out to the park 🙂

[novel bone]

Tixij Quiet

[minor hare]

Mr Wolficorn

Though not sure if I have access to Beta

[marsh laurel]

#game-announcements message

Link there should still work 🙂

[minor hare]

Thanks I'll check it out this afternoon

[minor hare]

Ok I'm in

[minor hare]

Yeah, not really impressed with the changes tbh. Extra damage is nice but that wasn't an issue I had with the class.

[raven axle]

Estrellia the wise . Thanks 🙂

[ashen bear]

Played with it for a bit. Initial thoughts, tl'dr: I'm never going to say no to a % damage increase and it is exciting to see the procs, but do not think this successfully solves issues Gilga community is concerned with.

Issue 1: It currently does not differentiate Spiked Shield builds vs. Other builds. While it certainly increases the usability of early builds, increasing damage by a % will always benefit the build putting out larger numbers. It ends up widening the gap between these builds in late game.

Potential solutions: Chance per hit, thus making it more consistent on Guarding strikes, purifying strikes, swordplay etc. builds. I understand it would be the same in the long run, but it would apply more consistently in shorter fights. Create new gear that buff the effect that is not high ward.

Issue 2: It does not alleviate the main pain points for gilga in farming for orns.

Potential Solution: For horde farming have it work similar to avidity where it rolls per target hit (seems like its per attack right now). Make it so it will not apply to a target who would already be dead from base damage. Not sure how this can help endless other than it happenign to kill a target you wouldnt have otherwise. Doesn't solve dex issue or need to wear high ward gear.

Issue 3: Spiked Pauldrons/Leggings do not feel worth it. The ward consumption seems to outweigh the benefits of bastille so when using it I am losing damage. On Ursa, the lack of ward regen makes upkeep difficult. Across the board, juggling even one is frustrating and juggling both seems impossible.

[hearty ruin]

Regarding point 2, it does proc per target.

[ashen bear]

Maybe there are diminishing returns or something? I just ran a few more sweep dungeons and feels like it is activating way less often than it should.

Could just be unlucky runs

[tulip obsidian]

Tested CD V proc chance
554 trials 97 procs = 17,509%

[ashen bear]

`I think it would make sense to differentiate Spiked Pauldrons vs. Greaves. Maybe one doesnt drain per hit, but increases damage you take to ward or decreases ward absorption? Feels weird to effectively get two of the exact same skill.

I think for both would make sense to be toggles rather than temp buffs.

[remote osprey]

They're not the same skill though? One increases CD proc rate and the other increases the damage of CD. They have the same ward draining effect but two different buffs.

[tulip obsidian]

have you seen this? #1130839743706448034 message

[ashen bear]

No I hadn't but I would welcome that approach.

[ashen bear]

Yeah, but it the current state it amounts to "You get X more damage out of CD" whether it be through frequency or damage (not aware of what the exact numbers are). I think playing with costs is a better way to differentiate. Again it is hard to tell currently, as I imagine gear bonuses in the future will synergize differently.

[remote osprey]

I haven't got an Atlas Globeholder to test what the stance is like with it

Would love to see the numbers from that

[ashen bear]

Me neither, but as cool as Globeholder is I find it hard to believe that it would be better than a celestial weapon.

[remote osprey]

Depends on how much the dmg buff is for CD. If the base is 40% and then Spiked Paldrons and Atlas Stance are both active it could be some decent dmg

Also the new Pumpkinless gear buffs 2h dmg

[ashen bear]

I think it would have to be an unreasonably high number to outpace either Prom's hands for crit builds or Raw Ward/Ward Regen for others.

[remote osprey]

If it tests well imma go spam my Moondrops for an Arisen Globe Holder lol

[tulip obsidian]

if anyone needs a globe holder on the beta ping me

[ashen bear]

Semi-Related: I think NF should have a low threshold for adding new celestial augments when new mechanics and playstyles are added

[remote osprey]

Yea I pinged Odie to ask for them to be added back to the Titan Workshop for testing and got yelled at lol

I have a sandbox character so no adorns and just the standard gear lol

[ashen bear]

I dont mean the current adorns for testing, I mean for example they should add like, Wheels of Eos: +Attack -ward, increases rate of CD

[remote osprey]

Oh interesting

I asked for a Celestial Shield for GHerc main hand so yours is probably a more reasonable request lol

[tulip obsidian]

Atlas Stance increases CD damage by 6%, havent tested the additional proc chance

[formal wasp]

Just pitching in an issue that takes away a skill slot from one of the celestial variants, Sow Ward's current state.

Figured that since Gilga's issues are getting a closer look anyway, might as well put that forward

[tulip obsidian]

Not sure what i like better tbh, Sow Ward in its current form or how it should work according to the flavor text

Would be nice if it took 30-40% of my ward and instantly spread it to my allies

altough im not sure if that would make a better life pact

Did some more horde testing in the beta. Biggest problem / most frustrating for me right now is that CD often procs on enemies that have already passed away instead of hitting another enemy thats still alive. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't

[hearty ruin]

I do wish it worked like that

as a summoner player heh

That being said, some crossplay of skills is pretty cool

[remote rivet]

Has it been discussed much by NF that dual wielding with a celestial weapon is better than using a two handed celestial weapon in almost all content?

[marsh laurel]

For CD proc rates, that would be irrelevant

Two-handed vs dual-wielding is likely a different conversation to the current Gilga changes in beta

And not really a warrior exclusive issue

[remote rivet]

Thats fair. I'll probably have to continue posting about that one elsewhere.

[minor hare]

Yeah I think gilgamesh with High Cleric would make a crazy good support - if it weren't for the fact that so many classes redline

The avalon pegasus would also go great with that combo

pair that with a summoner though and you can res the summons XD

[wanton idol]

And then you remember building a support is basically useless

feelsbadman

[minor hare]

Great for trolling your realmy friends in raids XD

[marsh laurel]

Apologies, got a lot of pings the last couple of days and missed this one!
Done!

[raven axle]

Thank you, no worries… I only saw it now :p too much pings everywhere ahah

[raven axle]

So I had a little play around as I finally managed to get home tonight and I’ve got to say I like this idea of collateral damage as it can give another shot on my chained shield. I had it kill 3 mobs in tower at the same time twice in a row which was very cool.
Now the ugly part is the “kill that person that is already dead 10 times over” thing. But yeah I understand it’s “splash” damage so it goes anywhere and not only on another target