Gilgamesh- The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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My fellow players of the warriory ones, what do you think of Gilgamesh, Ursa, Hercules? Where are they strong, where are they weak?

If you could change anything, what would it be and why?

[ashen bear]

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the class. I think it is in a reasonably balanced state. I use all three variants for different activities:

Standard: Dungeons, tower
Ursa: pvp defense
Herc: raiding, pvp offense

Not a huge issue, but the guardian passive really does not offer much in its current state. One of the reasons I originally picked gilga was because this passive made it seem like it would be the best at holding
territory; however because of the way bastille works, Gilga usually takes a big hit an any benefit of guardian is outweighed by not getting bastille up. It is funny that the variant that does not have guardian is the one I use most for area defense.

Suggestion: rework guardian so that rather than provide additional Stats, gilga starts with higher than 50% ward in area defense.

[flint geyser]

I would like to have the crit back for ss(is unfair mages, and rs have but we don't)
Have others options and not only ss as our only good skill.

Hercules to have steadfast.

[quiet pulsar]

I would like to see Hercules get Steadfast. It seems silly that it's the only celestial that loses it from its base class.

[royal hamlet]

horde mode

[rustic olive]

Herc getting Steadfast is a nice touch.

Ursa need some love. It's great to swash, great to pvp defenses against direct hits but let's be honnest, people are playing as GS most of the time to pvp and against that Ursa cant defend itself since it have ward reduction and can't use SS or CS properly.
Maybe a boots on AoE skills or removing Crest of Avalon and getting a new passive similar to Basttile working with HP (no recovery, of course) would be nice.
Holy element is attached to the base class so would be cool if it get new skills. We have a nice example of that in game, the shadowed NyxHerc skills.
Ursa could get Holy+element skills since its a strike version of Gilgamesh.

The base class is... perfect.

[merry osprey]

I had an idea to rework Ursa to just be HP based and no ward, where anything that gave ward increase to stats would instead give additional HP in some measured amount. Considering there's emphasis on low ward between the class and a lot of the items they use anyways. That'd make way for a more interesting turnplay like revenge damage amplification on next attack or something

[royal hamlet]

For Ursa, switch 35% off total ward to just SS damage reduced to prevent overpower.

Status increase passive is two hand weapon lock and just 30% max (for other class, max 50%). Compare the max ward to one hand weapon and shield combination, it already a great soft limit of the SS damage and max ward.

Prevent Ursa SS issue needs not to destroy the survivability. A damage reduce for SS is enough.

[spare widget]

If you increased the ward, would you also reduce the bonus HP too?

[pure moss]

I think automatic counterattacks are too strong. The damage calculation method should be changed to allow for a more reasonable utilization of the character's own attack power.
Or remove the damage reduction effect.

[minor hare]

Personal opinion from seasoned Gilgamesh player:
Base: Everything
Herc: Trash, but the skills are the amazing from it
Ursa: Quick horde clears (haven't tested in anguish yet though)

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FYI, for the most part I am not outlining suggestions in the feedback thread, though if you point them out to me in the #💡│suggestions channel, I will try to link to them under the relevant topics. Merely trying to identify issues that I see multiple players repeating time and again

[fierce nymph]

Crit on ss? 🤢

Oh wait….🥲 Go ahead 😂

[royal hamlet]

the hp bonus have not count much in ward. same gear for usra and base giliga. usra just around 66% base gilga.

and, consider the status of deity. it still reasonable.

[tulip obsidian]

I really dont want to see any changes to the current spiked shield Formular its fine imo

[novel bone]

Gilga Ursa needs a passive rework. Crest of Avalon is bad, Ursa passive has a low bonus for 2h weapons, big ward cut and a counterattack which in my opinion is pretty dishonest. Anguish is being quite a challenge mainly because the dex of the class is very low. The HP part I really like a lot and agree with the opinions given above, a Bastille-like passive using HP looks interesting.

[pastel geyser]

Ursa has ok Dex

[dreamy orchid]

Agree with all of the above on ursa. Crest of Avalon is aweak passive that just feels slapped on. Not sure why a t10 class was given a charging passive other than it being a convenient way to give it a small stat boost. Combining it with the two hand bonus and it still pales in comparison to other t10 class options with beefy stat boosting passives

Counterattack is a nice niche benefit that feels great when it procs, but only relevant in pvp

Truthfully I don’t even sweep anymore. Base gilga running bard (gilga mage) simply performs significantly better than sweep ursa, taking away another reason to even use the class

Ursa feels less than a side grade

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How does Gilga Mage run with boost gear?

[dreamy orchid]

For orns? I can’t comment on that. I don’t run horde content for orns,

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Personally I don't have time to run "Orn content" or "Horde content" seperately outside of a few event like the dragon event where I pretty much just forsake earning any orns for the month.

[dreamy orchid]

Right. Same

I can only focus on a major event OR orns

Time wise for me

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Anyway, my point being is it a good thing or a negative thing that Gilgamesh performs better in AE content as bard in appropriate gear?

Is it good that it has that flexibility?

Or is it bad that magic AE is just that much stronger?

[dreamy orchid]

I think it’s an interesting side effect of it having a higher magic stat than realm shifter. Items like menjas staff seem to enforce the build diversity aspect of allowing this to exist. Additionally, bards dance itself is simply the strongest horde dmg with its dmg scaling and non resistant dmg and can proc status effects (it’s over loaded). I can’t say it’s good or bad cause I think it’s cool. What I do think however is that, if I run ursa with zweifencer and it uses a two hand weapon - I think it should perform at the same level

Hope that is cognizant response. Haven’t had my coffee yet

Last mention for me, I do agree that herc feels like it needs steadfast for sure but if we add it - even steadfast 1 - I’m not sure what point there is to base gilga

Maybe herc is more of an itemization issue. It’s very strong and my preferred choice in certain scenarios

[spare widget]

Yeah, personally I've wondered if a better sidegrade to Gilga woulda been a Gilga mage variant instead of doubling down on SS

[dreamy orchid]

That’s a good point. Some of the classes doubled down on their theme while taking away some passive away

(See realm Corvus or heretic ara)

Diety however has a clean pick splitting between magic or attack but…it makes sense as diety is the Everyman class anyways

[spare widget]

I am not familiar with Corvus, but on paper it seems to be a straight upgrade to regular realm for crit raiding?

[dreamy orchid]

Just for crit raiding. But everyone (everyone really just means who ever I see on OL) prefers Dorito for many reasons these days (see ultima strikes)

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one day I shall get this thing called Ultima Strikes 😄

[dreamy orchid]

i like yoshi's suggestions

[coarse terrace]

Ursa's attack stat is ridiculous.

2H bonus is BS as it only increases offensive stats.

[elfin hemlock]

in paper yes, but in practice everything dies too fast you don't even get to feel the full power of crit chain

only actual usage is on OR where raids don't die

[coarse terrace]

Well it makes OR raiding much easier

oh

[elfin hemlock]

or morri/amorri if you're not using dorito there

it can be useful in endless since you don't have to manage bloodshift/recharge, but only up to the point where you don't need stun/sleep/stuff

[tulip obsidian]

Never tried it tbh

730k in a bit over 2 mins

Questing Hybrid when

[flint geyser]

IMO, having options is always good I guess, but terrible for a standpoint where if you want to be equally equally strong you need more gear/acc/amity,etc,etc, and also cheaper.

[fierce nymph]

Nefr Dorttan

[quiet pulsar]

Base: The PVP meta of just one-shotting everyone makes the extra defending stats from Guardian completely useless.
Herc: Is nice for the extra offhand ward, but everything else seems like a downgrade. I feel like I lose so many turns to dealing with status affects and regening mana compared to base Gilga.
Ursa: The reason I switched to Gilga main, but the reality is incredibly underwhelming for the reasons already listed above ad nauseum.
Whiny Rant: Why are Deities so good at defense? Let Gilgas be the defensive class.

[coarse terrace]

^^

Gilga's area defense buff should be applied to other PvP content. Who's with me

[grim parcel]

Gilga herc need steadfast.

[small canyon]

I love yoshi's suggestion for an Ursa aoe bonus when wielding 2h weapons

Ursa is supposed to be the 2h class, which should make it the zwei class, and in turn make it the sweep class. But it falls short. If a 250 al 57 Ursa can't sweep a t10 boss floor in a boss horde dungeon, then that says a lot.

There's been a lot of talk about the counterattack and I do think it needs some rework to be useful in pve. I don't think there's anything wrong with it in PvP and if it used ursa's own att stat and had a good m1 it could function as well in both content areas.

In my vision it would be an autocrit counterattack akin to horizontal strike 3 using my att stats. Basically when it procs most things should just die.

But it needs high penetration to stay useful in PvP and might need higher m1 than hs3. Maybe closer to m1 of 3

As for herc getting steadfast, I feel like that isn't going to happen since then it would be a straight upgrade to base. Not that I would complain, I just think its a big ask. I did find it weird that it lost steadfast where no other celestial classes did.

I do tend to run herc for raiding though and still get more damage over base even with needing to switch gear around for immunities, but this only works because of spiked greatshield. A whole class's viability shouldn't be dependent on a single piece of event gear.

[minor hare]

Not really a straight up upgrade - loses immune arcane and dragon resist

I remember playing gilga herc for a while and it was just a horrible experience the damage per turn was atrocious because of status effects

Not to mention it has less attack which makes it struggle a little more on higher def targets

[tulip obsidian]

Im gonna copy n paste it over here so it makes sense for people who aren't on OL

Things I'd change about Ursa:

• +20% aoe effectiveness while wearing a twohanded weapon (pve only idc). I just want to use ursa for its main purpose but regular gilgamesh is just better at it due to slightly higher scaling imo
• Change the counterattack to scale based on attack and incoming damage and have atleast one turn to cast (casts automatically just tells the opponent one turn before).
  Currently it just triples incoming damage with no tell, which is rather stupid for pvp and its useless in pve because it rarely deals any damage and often "counterattacks" buff spells so with a damage formular based on incoming damage and attack and knowing when its gonna happen you can use it better

[tulip obsidian]

I feel like hercules isn't meant to have steadfast (even though every other base class that has it still has it on their celestial versions). Only approach to ask for Steadfast what probably be something similar like odie suggested to deity players in another thread:

Change Second Chance and Guardian Passive to Steadfast 2

[unique epoch]

i do agree that ursa's dungeon sweeping performance should be at least on par with regular gilga's

[small canyon]

I'd give up 2nd chance and guardian in a hearbeat for steadfast2 on herc

[tough spear]

Agreed

I couldn't care less about PvP

[rustic olive]

I agree that Steadfast on Herc could overlap base Gilga. But the way it is, its kinda wasted class.
Maybe a unique passive could fix this, like Dorado passive (the dex/status one)
A passive that works with ward (80%+ ward = steadfast2 , 50% to 79% = steadfast1) idk, just and idea
That way could balance ward and protection chance because Herc is clearly a SS class.
And I know that titan augment can keep auto ward even using SS3 but that's a titan issue.

[tulip obsidian]

Area defense on a tank class without steadfast sound good to you?

[tough spear]

Just sleep dart that fucker
He's probably using 2 Carl rings

[tulip obsidian]

Atleast that way he's immune to lulled

[small canyon]

Hercules definitely took some getting used to. First time I died to arcane trolls in a tower was a surprise. But I use the class currently for raiding and towers mainly, and sometimes war offense or kingdom gauntlets. It has good t1 damage and good top end ss damage if you compensate for status effects.

I'm ultimately much more concerned with ursa

With a little tweaking it could be very desirable to truly offer the alternate playstyle some gilgas really want.

[grim parcel]

Why remove second chance and guardian passive ? There are warrior passive, and this counterbalances a little the lower def/res of the gilga compared to the deities in PvP territories. At least add steadfast I and not II…

[small canyon]

Unless there's a glaring imbalance, you normally have to give up something to get something. I don't think Yoshi was suggesting giving up those passives himself, but rather repeating an option odie had proposed for deities asking for a new passive

[coarse terrace]

^

Deity Ara lost omnimancy passive but got steadfast II instead

[tulip obsidian]

Yeah i cant find the thread anymore cause its probably in beta feedback and thats not accessible anymore. When discussing with the diety players in that thread he offered multiple solutions and all of them included something like "Deity Ursa loses Passive X but gains Passive Y"

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That seems to be the trend, gotta lose something to gain something

[grim parcel]

Gilgamesh has 5 passives, gilga herc has 4, so we already loose something

It’s not really one for another one

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Currently (from Base Gilga) Herc gains Bastille 2 and Hercules and loses Siphon Ward 2 Steadfast 2 and immunity/resistance

[grim parcel]

Gain an passive improved, loose 2 passive AND immunity arcane/res dragon… that a lot imo

Or improve bastille in bastille II and downsize steadfast II to steadfast I

[tulip obsidian]

So what exactly are the perfect abilities on GilgaH for you?

[grim parcel]

Trade second chance and guardian passive to gain steadfast II, so the celestial class would have only 3 passive ? Ridiculous…

[tulip obsidian]

To have the celestial class still be a sidegrade. I find it reasonable

[grim parcel]

So you unlock just for skill ? Hmmm

[spare widget]

Personally I'd gladly trade second chance, it doesn't do a whole lot for Gilga usually

Unless you are running Swash or something not ward based

Which as Herc is the double down on ward playstyle, no big loss

[tulip obsidian]

No? I ... what?

[grim parcel]

I only play gilgah in PvP offense

[tulip obsidian]

Not the answer to the question

[grim parcel]

I already answer, steadfast II -> steadfast I

[tulip obsidian]

without losing second chance and guardian?

[grim parcel]

That’s a downgrade from gilga btw

[tulip obsidian]

sorry that wasnt really clear to me

[grim parcel]

Ok, so reached the star mean loose several passive… like you said fortunalely you unlock skill like Chained shield

[grim parcel]

Sure, if we do trade a passive that is this passive

[spare widget]

I know this wasn't asked of me and this is just me the Gilga player talking here. But if I could magic box change Herc, the passives would look like this:
Bastille 2
Hercules
Steadfast 2
Guardian
(left immunities alone)
That would have washed Second Chance and Siphon Ward 2 at the upgrade of Bastille and the boost from Herc

I could also see a case for losing immunity to arcane to just a resist arcane

I definitely find ursa to be 'trickier' though

[small canyon]

Immunities and resists changing in celestials was something I wasn't expecting. I could see them changing to something else maybe but disappearing completely struck me as odd

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It feels like it is so close to being great but just isn't there yet

[small canyon]

I could get behind your version of herc

I really enjoy ursa

All I think it really needs is a reason to use 2h and zwei

Its a great concept but it misses the mark currently

[spare widget]

I'm still unsure how much of that is just the class and how much is that 2h playstylein general is just more anemic unless you are crit building

[small canyon]

Make sweep crit and problem solved lol

[spare widget]

And that is a much broader change than just dabbling with some abilities on herc

[spare widget]

Hmm interesting take

[small canyon]

I don't expect that to happen though

[spare widget]

wild idea here, but what if Gilga Ursa had a chance to doublestrike

[small canyon]

Like chained shield?

[spare widget]

yeah or like Sequencer

when wielding a 2 hander

[small canyon]

Or the same target

[spare widget]

each skill has a blah blah chance to doublestrike

[small canyon]

That could be interesting

But would need to be a decent chance

[spare widget]

not exactly a crit, but effectively sort of havign a 25% chance to crit or whatever

Would that be worth losing the Counterattack as part of Ursa if the class gained a Counterattack skill?

I might throw up a suggestion just to feel out how people feel about it

[small canyon]

if the counterattack worked in pve i'd rather it remain as is

[spare widget]

Does it not work in pve?

[small canyon]

i mean mechanically it functions but it's worthless

[spare widget]

I was just kind of pondering if Gilga Ursa got say "Counter attack 3" as a skill

[small canyon]

I put my thoughts on counterattack above, but i think it should work the way it does not but use ursa's att stat with an auto crit high m1 attack

giving it counterattack as a skill makes it just pvp

[spare widget]

So automatically fires as per now

but instead of returning triple damage it calculates like a regular attack

[small canyon]

i like that it randomly fires off, just want to see it kill stuff in that randomness

right

I get why people are a little annoyed with it in pvp, but in the current one shot meta I don't see how your own attack randomly killing you is really any difference than the player killing you

I think it is more of an emotional reaction since it just happens sometimes as opposed to a logical reaction that you could just get one shot anyways

[spare widget]

Eh I get it, it goes from probably a 90% kill rate on my Realm Swash offense to a 66% killr ate

[small canyon]

so making it calculate based off att stat would make def relevant, but i still think it needs a high m1 because it shouldn't get zeroed out except maybe on mjolnir

[spare widget]

which over 500 territories, adds up

[small canyon]

i stopped caring about pvp so long ago that if it was useful in pve it wouldn't matter to me if it became irrelevant in pvp, but i don't think there's anything inherently unfair about it.

If a player can't just one shot every territory as they drive by and sometimes die doesn't feel wrong to me. Anything that frustrates the land barons in the game to me instantly seems like its working as intended lol

[spare widget]

I could see an interesting skill where the M1 worked sort of like how old spiked shield worked, except in the case of the counterattack, it was based on damage you took

[merry osprey]

Don't even get guardian in aethric, there's no PvP defense to worry about

[merry osprey]

While we're talking about passive trading, I would trade off ursa's siphon ward 3 for a recharge I/II in a heartbeat. Ward based regen on low ward class doesn't make sense.

I also second that I'd swap second chance on herc for any tier steadfast.

[merry osprey]

I find counterattack to be near completely useless in aethric and would get behind this. A "Collateral damage" or Overkill type of effect

[rustic olive]

I like the way it is, how it works its fine to me. It's a fun way to counter the one-shot pvp meta

[small canyon]

Recharge on Ursa would be incredible

[low crystal]

With realms getting avidity, would be cool for warriors to get a chance to roll another hit on non crit multi hitting/turn taking moves. Be cool plays for CDG to be casted twice or for sword play to have another hit randomly. This could be having “matched event set” condition, two handed condition, or revenge condition to trigger. Might be complicated but just tossing out an idea or three 😅

Imo would make me consider not building full ward spiky boy builds.

TLDR some boosted way to build around non crit non spiked play specifically focused on gilga.

Nothing busted, just neat

[spare widget]

#💡│suggestions message Suggestion generated from previous discussion

A second suggestion for Ursa looking at Counterattack #💡│suggestions message

[spare widget]

Suggestion for Gilgamesh Hercules up for thought https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1131591892941938738

[low crystal]

Punched a check mark. I remember in beta they were hesitant to give steadfast back to herc. Maybe this will be different 😃

[minor hare]

Giving herc steadfast would be better, but even just giving it that alone (not even taking anything away from it) - still worse than than regular gilga imo

[spare widget]

Can you explain your reasoning for us?

[minor hare]

Cons:
Loss of arcane immunity
Loss of dragon resistance
Less attack - suffers against higher def targets like deities and late endless
Currently no steadfast
Minor things - no siphon ward and less mana overall

Pros:
Spiked shield hits slightly higher (if it pens)
Slightly higher def and res
More ward regen

[spare widget]

In my suggestion, I proposed that Herc keep the base immunities

[minor hare]

I think hercules is just going to always be inferior, but at least we get some sweet skills out of it

So I guess that's the tradeoff

[spare widget]

Superior in some ways and inferior in others is the design goal I think

So if we can get it to where most players believe we are in that design space that's probably as good as we could hope for

Thank you for explaining your reasoning though, it's always helpful to understand the whys

[minor hare]

And if you're curious I'm a lvl 250 gilga with 43 ascension

Love gilgamesh 🙂

[spare widget]

I'd like to see some newer Gilga ideas about lower t10 play too.

[merry osprey]

Herc does get an extra skill slot so slotting diffuse ward isn't worse than mana siphon IMO, I much prefer it that way as you control both your HP and Mana Regen with one skill vs just HP with siphon

[minor hare]

Yeah I always run diffuse ward. It's just a matter of how often you have to use it. Why I said it was only minor

[spare widget]

I agree, Diffuse Ward is a good option, in turn efficiency though it does take a turn to use unlike the passive regen from siphon ward

[merry osprey]

Well 90% of the time you're running a chimera with berserk ticking and theres no HP Regen in celestial axes, you're probably gonna waste a turn for HP either way

[spare widget]

Ahh I usually use WoL 3

regens my ward too

Though on A Morri I do not run celestial axe personally

I just tank through her with SS1 spam

I think though that's probably a good example of when a class would be a sidegrade even within the same content. If certain builds favor one over the other and that balances out, then bam!

[small canyon]

Herc losing the immunity/resistance doesn't bother me too much. The only place I've ever noticed it is in towers with trolls and hoggs

[rustic olive]

That extra skill slot its kinda designed to Diffuse Ward haha

[novel bone]

I was talking to my friends and we came up with an interesting idea for Gilga Ursa.
A passive that activates a temporary berserk would be interesting (we could discuss what it would be), we thought about it using the Deity as a model and it would be much more useful and fun than Crest of Avalon.

[merry osprey]

There's been a lot of ideas that are a lot more fun and interesting than what currently is implemented for ursa, that's for sure. I don't remember the last time I used a weapon skill other than a shield bash on gilga. That's mostly because if I want to do anything other than raid, then my 0 effort summoner is the least path of resistance with the most potential gain

[low crystal]

I am hoping the next variant is a gilga/beo combo class. That would be really fun imo

[coarse terrace]

gilga/heretic 🙏

[novel bone]

I was expecting something like a Gilga/Mage (a true Gilgamage), but a GilgaBeo would be something really cool too

[merry osprey]

What would their schtick be that would set it apart from being a beo class without making those classes redundant?

[low crystal]

I feel like base gilga is so close to a mage it doesnt really matter tbh

[merry osprey]

With a gilgamage you could say, consume %ward to empower spells cast, that's the first idea off the top of m head

[low crystal]

Just makes ward gear nutz due to baldur gear set

[merry osprey]

Baldr boots would definitely be BIS

Gilgummoner, where you tank for your summons instead!

[novel bone]

Yes, but it's more of a "doable" kind of thing than something more solid. But I agree with you, if we were allowed to use mage equipment it would definitely make a good Gilgamage

But at the moment my thoughts are on Ursa, this guy really needs a good look, he has so much potential.

[low crystal]

Agreed. I feel like the other celestials were not given as big of a weight on their leg as herc did. Definitely being held back in a big way

[novel bone]

I've been thinking about ways to improve Ursa using ideas similar to passives that already exist in the game. A Bastille-like passive that works with HP, a temporary berserk that works like Deity's passives, stuff like that.

About Herc I totally agree with the ideas that were mentioned here

I'm liking how things are going, Strahd's idea to open this kind of discussion and create a suggestion based on the feedback was great

[ashen bear]

New herc ability suggestion:
Embiggen: your sprite gets larger the more ward you have.

[coarse terrace]

Starts the battle with 50% smaller sprite.

[ashen bear]

Meant to say max ward

[proud isle]

I just hate the guardian passive as a whole. Flat stats is so boring. A scaling initial ward abs with influence would be much cooler

That might be influenced by how hard health is to get for those 1shot threshholds and my hate of 1shot meta but 🤷

[royal hamlet]

no handling for the pathetic dex🤷

[novel bone]

Flat status is pretty sad to be honest, especially on a T10 class passive

[spare widget]

So where we at my people? The suggestions for Ursa and Herc seem to be decently well received, though the counterattack one a bit less. Where we at on regular Gilga? Any thoughts, ideas, dreams and hopes?

[rustic olive]

Give SS crit back

jk

Base Gilga its pretty well balaced, not sure if it has something to change

[tulip obsidian]

Base Gilga is fine

[coarse terrace]

Agreed

[novel bone]

Gilga base is perfect

[spare widget]

Perfect eh?

A bold statement indeed! 🥂

[minor hare]

So perfect some might even say. Arisen.

[low crystal]

I do think the folks saying it feels great are Al 20+ (myself included) I remember scraping spiked shields at 130k ward. Felt bad

[spare widget]

There are two things about Base Gilga I think could be improved personally:

1. Slight increases in viability pre end game SS beefiness
2. Gilga is actually pretty squishy and missy in boost gear. So much so that many players just class swap until they have enough ascensions to just sort of override it.

[low crystal]

Be cool if there was a armor set that cold let you have boosted spiked damage if low AL/early gilga

That is also some great points. But could be said about any class

[minor hare]

I mean higher pen on SS1 would be nice - especially for pvp against deities that 0 out dmg

[spare widget]

I mean I could be wrong but I think Gilga scaling is perhaps a bit more dramatic

[low crystal]

I just remember my time as a 225 realm that was 🤡

[earnest furnace]

Of those two, #2 is more prevalent IMO.

[spare widget]

Yeah, I remember being a baby realm too back before crit builds were even a thing

[novel bone]

I think perfect is too much, sorry. It's good, but I need to look at the early T10 too, which is not very viable without a good investment, and even with a good investment level and ascension are quite relevant.

[spare widget]

Try playing Gilga, even at end game without using Spiked Shield for a week

experiement in some different builds

[novel bone]

It's not viable to be honest, that's the second point you made and I agree.

[minor hare]

Gilga best summoner and mage 😛

Gilga is the true way

XD

[spare widget]

I don't know about best, but Gilga Mage can be pretty strong, or maybe Ultima is just that strong

[minor hare]

Ultima strikes sounds like it may be pretty solid

[spare widget]

Though good luck getting your Fey Menja staves, my best so far are famed Q.Q

[minor hare]

I just stick to spiked shield myself. Before anguish I used guarding strikes 4 in regular dungeons

[spare widget]

I don't have good enough mana for that

I do use GS 3 on Fallen Realms though

[minor hare]

This staff?

[spare widget]

Now you just need 1 more!

[low crystal]

Congrats!

[minor hare]

XD

[spare widget]

Close enough I guess!

[minor hare]

It liked to give me these

Yet my fey surtr best is superior :/

fey menja staff the best right now gilga can use?

[spare widget]

For Sequencer yes

[minor hare]

Honestly may work for a hybrid dmg build

[spare widget]

I think a good Fey Crowsong combined with selene's hand weapon is probably best for non sequencer

Fey Menja though certainly in the running if you don't have a better Fey Crowy

[minor hare]

Also got this

though menja has crit which I guess gets added to spells?

[spare widget]

scaling on those is not as good though

[minor hare]

oh

checked and ankh says it should be 1309 att/mag

menja Att 958 mag 1216

[spare widget]

Though now I am trying to brainstorm ways to make Guarding Strikes better

[minor hare]

More attack XD

[spare widget]

even though it's been made better once

[minor hare]

I think finesse greatsword may be an option?

For guarding strikes

Though overcoming the dex may be difficult

[spare widget]

Yeah hence why I was thinking about maybe something other than just more raw damage

I mean if you make Guarding Strikes much more damage it's definitely going to break Pavane levels, especially for Realms

[minor hare]

It outperformed swordplay 3 for me

[spare widget]

Maybe giving it a fixed Miss chance like Spiked Shield but that seems so droll

[minor hare]

Arisen Fey Neman Havoc would also give you the most attack but sacrifices ward

[spare widget]

Hmm

What if Morri Plagued gear reduced miss chance like the riftrogue

Might make it more appealing for early game gilga's

but using it in endgame SS builds, the ward loss would almost outweight the benefits

[minor hare]

There's an amity for 5% less chance to miss

[spare widget]

And Deities already have such high dex anyway there's no huge benefit to them

[minor hare]

Deities are pretty broken tbh

Their stats are just nuts

[spare widget]

I'll get back to work a little bit and see if any others chime in

[novel bone]

Hmm I think it would not be very viable because we would be stuck with this equipment if we wanted to evade Spiked Shield

[spare widget]

Well the point was not to use it for Spiked Shield, end game Gilga already seems in a pretty good place

I was spitballing ideas to improve the experience as a 230'ish no-low ascension Gilgamesh or even as a later Gilga who is not utilizing Spiked Shield play

I am certainly open to others though, not married to that one at all

Also, I was thinking it might make plagued gear viable for Gilga's to chase at t10 as right now it's pretty much skippable as Polly gear is really just as good for the class

[novel bone]

I think plagued gear would be ideal too since it's available all the time, it's a cool idea

[minor hare]

Wow. I was looking at stats and gear and it seems hybrid and mage gilga would actually be possibilities

[spare widget]

You should ask Big Forg about that

He's been doing it awhiiiile

[minor hare]

Not sure that it would be better than Spiked Shield gilga though

[spare widget]

I've seen several videos of him hitting cap with raids

Also this cracks me up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWuCpkPXCo

[minor hare]

gilga blast XD

[novel bone]

In addition to being impressive, it is a little sad to see this video. I didn't want to see Ursa like this

[small canyon]

I always forget orna has sound lol

[small canyon]

A warrior gear set with reasonable ward and good Dex would be extremely welcome

[spare widget]

Only concern I have is that any dex you add that would be substantial enough for warriors would just make for some insane dex builds on Deity

[small canyon]

Fair

make it unattractive to deity like negative magic

something for gilga and dorado

Because that's the biggest dorado issue right now too in that it encourages ward but has a dex based passive

[novel bone]

I can't see a solution with equipment without the Deity abusing it, unless it's class-exclusive equipment, but it wouldn't make much sense

[small canyon]

I can't see giving gilga a dex boost to base stat, so it's really either gear or passive

[coarse terrace]

Agreed. The current Gilga is incompetent in most horde content without the help of Chained Shield.

We need either a dex buff on one of the celestial variants or a new warrior gear with decent dex.

[novel bone]

To be honest, I don't see any harm in increasing the base dex of the class, am I missing something?

[small canyon]

Making gear that interacts directly with passives could be a thing. Something like a decent set of gear with reasonable stats and ward and what not that then gets a scaling dex bonus based on percent of bastille passive.

This is a design space that hasn't gotten utilized yet but I think it makes a lot of sense in crafting gear that is designed to be decent on its own but clearly made for a specific playstyle

Another could be a two handed weapon that gets a boost to aoe if you have the ursa passive

things like that

[coarse terrace]

In my opinion, this game needs more gear for each specific endgame class. Current equipments are too versatile as other classes can also equip them.

[quiet pulsar]

Deity being able to use all gear while having ridiculous stats is a bad design decision

Same with having God tier gear that can be used by all classes. Really weakens class identity

[modern carbon]

As a fresh gilga what I've noticed is I have to do a lot of maintenance either with ward turns or hp from dots/berserk.
In horde dungeons the issue I run into beside the others is I feel my damage is kinda lackluster. Running into multiple gold aura bosses or berserk bosses causes even more maintenance because I don't deal enough damage to clear the board so I'm taking more ward damage causing my damage to drop and losing ward turns.

[coarse terrace]

You can use fallen sky leggings.

[modern carbon]

I have 196 arisen Avalon legs

[coarse terrace]

Nice. Use fallen sky leggings. Those both have different purposes of use.

[modern carbon]

I don't think I can get those

[coarse terrace]

You can get them next month.

[earnest furnace]

I think it’s in September

[tulip obsidian]

Fallen Sky Leggins give you infinite Ward turns. They are available during next months event from Arisen Quetzalcoatl

You can reduce the damage of self induced dots aka berserks with an Arisen Riftguard Armor that drops from Arisen Judge Rhada (should be returning in September)

[coarse terrace]

Is there a point in buying the Gilgamesh Ursa class as of now?

[novel bone]

Horizontal Slash 3 and Riposte 3 are pretty solid skills, the class doesn't pay off that much unfortunately

Strikes of Ursa is a big no

[flint geyser]

good for pvp too

[coarse terrace]

I think it's good for a nice sweep build, specifically for towering.

Have to buy it to make sure, tho.

[tulip obsidian]

Ursa is probably the best class for area defense with its high hp and unfair counterattack

[minor hare]

I have a lot of ascension into gilga - curious if Deity Ursa is more effective at Spiked shield...

I did some tests but hard to get accurate measure

[small canyon]

This won't work unless you're class swapping to just target the easy floors unfortunately. Only av2 or chained shield will be viable for aoe tower options.

It is good for horde sweep though, just not for towers

[novel bone]

And in dungeons Gilgamage does better

[elfin hemlock]

there's no way a class with skill penalty beats the class without skill penalty

[coarse terrace]

Apparently it does.

A friend of mine who plays as a Deity Ursa hits like a truck. He deals like 2.5m damage on low hp A. Morri without zerks

[elfin hemlock]

did he test it with gilga with same variables though

[tough spear]

Better question is how many ascension levels does he have

Because a gilga with the same amount of ascension levels will definitely be better

[pastel geyser]

I think deity is the 2nd best spiked shield user it naturally has more ward than gilga high base mana upto 120% stat boost and unlike gilga starts with full ward
And just has so much gearing options

[elfin hemlock]

yeah the 2nd spot is a contest between deity/dursa, dorito, beoh

depends on which extra tools you prefer

[pastel geyser]

I still think deity is better

Than dorito and beoh

[tough spear]

Pretty sure that beoH has the higher ward

[elfin hemlock]

i'm personally a hater of unstable omnimancy

[pastel geyser]

It's not even that bad

Other than getting hit by ultima pretty manageable

[elfin hemlock]

dunno about deity, but beoh has higher ward than dorito

[tough spear]

beoH has massive hp

[pastel geyser]

Does beo hydrus get the same 100% redline bonus as normal beo ?

[tough spear]

Nope

[elfin hemlock]

beoh has no in combat scaling

[pastel geyser]

Nah than it won't compete with a deity

[tough spear]

And it's only 50% for the player

[elfin hemlock]

so beoh is mostly a turn 1 machine

[pastel geyser]

Yeah

[tough spear]

You can get pretty high att stats which is really good for spiked shield

As beoh

[pastel geyser]

Other than pets backing it up beo h doesn't seem that good

Also deity is naturally dodgy and tanky
Hard to get both at same time

[minor hare]

Yeah the reason I asked about deity is they just naturally have higher stats and the celestial one even has more attack

And a ridiculous number of skill slots

The main real downside is less ward regen

I was hitting less when testing because of the 43 ascension, but it may be possible that deity could hit better at same ascension

Plus they get random temp ups

[elfin hemlock]

sure if deity is wearing optimal and the gilga isn't

like deity having the rhada shield and gilga only using mammon

[minor hare]

Well I'm just wondering if I got duped and I should have been ascending deity

[elfin hemlock]

definitely not, you're just probably one of those unoptimal gilgas

[minor hare]

I am quite optimized

Accessories very based on activity

And the body armor has element too

And deity can use all the gear and skills

[tough spear]

Why do you bother with gadget/gizmo

Should be running double Carl's rings

[elfin hemlock]

who needs all the skills, with that setup raids should die in like 3 ss

no way a deity wins against that in speed raiding

maybe against screenshot raiding they have a chance, but who cares

[tough spear]

Agreed

Imo base gilga has just the right amount of skill slots

[minor hare]

That's the pvp setup

For pvp and territory defense

Raids I still run that gizmo and ornate ymir both help spiked shield, prevent att debuf, immune petrify and paralyze, and reduce status chance

Since I usually run no consumables

Just beat a 49 ascension deity in my kingdom war. He was specced for ultima though.

[spare widget]

I hit a 100 Ascensions Dorito in the arena the other day, probabl the best pvp defense build I've ever seen. Had crazy high ward, like 350k and couldn't even scratch him with SS1

[minor hare]

For gilgamesh being the ward based class. It's weird that it doesn't have the best ward.

[pastel geyser]

Deity outward Gilgamesh by a fair Margin

[minor hare]

Yup

Gilgamesh should get a buff tbh XD

[pastel geyser]

Yes but not just bumping up a bit of hp this time

Maybe mana but that isn't happening we know it

[minor hare]

Would be happy with more skill slots - but I manage with the 12

[pastel geyser]

Hercules I think outwards /ties up with deity in ward

[minor hare]

Yeah but deity and regular gilga have steadfast 2....

My main worry is gilga falling off into obsecurity by being outclassed

[pastel geyser]

This is the ward difference between 0asc gilga nd deity

[pastel geyser]

It's obscure as is not many players play it

[minor hare]

In terms of no one will want to play it because it'll be worse in every aspect compared to another class doing what gilga was designed to do

[pastel geyser]

They only ever consider it in late game if they gather awesome ward gear and try to just play it for towers or something

[minor hare]

Added a suggestion for Gilgamesh to have more ward either through hp/mana increase or just more ward

The suggestion I proposed:
Buff the ward directly or possibly hp and or mana on base gilgamesh to prevent it from being outclassed in ward from Deities (and realmshifter Dorado). Gilgamesh is starting to be outclassed in the 1 thing it was meant to do which is be the ward juggernaut and use spiked shields as it's only means of attack due to it's low attack.

[low crystal]

Im not sure that the needle needs to be moved a ton. Like a base ward buff would produce, but I do think that after high commitment to gearing and AL, it doesnt hit as hard as ultima/ultimastrikes.

So maybe a ward based ultima?

Like if that is the meta end all be all skill, which that looks like it will be with ustrikes and the elemental interaction nerf puffing to mist last month

Lets add a gilga counterpart.

[elfin hemlock]

only reason it doesn't hit hard is because there's not much multipliers available to cheese

[pastel geyser]

I think it's not about DMG but rather maintaining it's identity
Gilga is definitely not the tank class and it lacks behind in ward to only thing going on for it

[minor hare]

Exactly

because currently if you want to tank - Deity has more def, res, hp, mana, and ward

Plus they have such a wider access to gear

more skill slots

What brought this all to my attention was seeing Deities and Realmshifter Dorado in some cases beating me in PvP with spiked shields which speffically says in the description that it's "most effective when used by gilgamesh"

[low crystal]

Personally i would rather have the current system where gilga is mor effective at using ward, and other classes could have extra ward its just less optimal

I think they would also beat you with their class meta options too, its just that ward skills are much better at territory defense because of the way that it is

[minor hare]

I would moreso expect gilgamesh to have more ward while deity was more def/res

because at the end of the day ward is surivability too

[storm lance]

it doesnt?

[low crystal]

Im not sure if that is apples to apples. I know Selean hands needs another nerf due to the interaction it has with als. But yah gilga raiding is in a great spot after the 20 AL hump or so

[minor hare]

How did you manage 7.5 mil dmg with those buffs?

[storm lance]

the gilga is yoshi, ask him

[minor hare]

I'm using feet of prom for ward regen

@tulip obsidian Sorry for the ping, but what augments did you use to hit that 7.5 mil with spiked shield 3? Was it hands of selene?

[tulip obsidian]

uuuh

i think thats 4 hands of selene + broken selene lungs

[spare widget]

That's oracle with 2 20% earth amities too isn't it?

[tulip obsidian]

it is

[spare widget]

Yeah seems about right

I hit for about 5 mill running cata with a different amity choice

And your gear is slightly better than mine across the board

[minor hare]

Interesting

I hit around 2 mil with setup but with feet of prometheus for ward regen

Definitely will have to make a second axe and expirement

[tulip obsidian]

more axes

[earnest furnace]

always the solution

[spare widget]

I'm not a big fan of the feet builds, I can spam SS1 with a Gilga axe for only about 600k less damage and have better penetration AND lifetap

[minor hare]

Depends on the situation

Like anguish towers feet are amazing

[spare widget]

I doubt I'll ever do a Tower on Anguish tbh. I barely do them as is 😆

[minor hare]

Hoping to get my prometheus tower to 40 floors today xD

and got a 2nd one that spawned near me

But yeah didn't think those hands would essentially triple the dmg I'm currently doing would be great for raids and pvp

[low crystal]

They are busted

Crazy crazy stuff

[pastel geyser]

Taps the button ss3 missed.....

[minor hare]

Tried out a selene axe with a single water dmg amity (20%) was hitting around 4 mil

[coarse terrace]

Whaaaat

Is it better than prom axe??

[tough spear]

Yes Selene hands are better damage wise

I can do around 2.7 mill damage with just the usual buffs

Bears, gunnr, element affinity, zerk1, warcry

[coarse terrace]

Damn

i can do 2m at most with those buffs

should try selene hands sometime

[pastel geyser]

I can reach 2.5mil with added zerk2 but ammori and higher tier raids it drops to 1.5mil something due to low attack

[minor hare]

It's better for first turn or burst dmg. Not sustained

Dual amity I hit up to 4.7 15% and 20% water dmg

Still not very impressed, but I got another axe XD

Lugus guantlets and one amity...

[tough spear]

Don't even need a lugus gauntlet

[minor hare]

You guys have like 200 ascension or is my dmg bugged lol

[tough spear]

I only have 45

[minor hare]

I have 43...

I had 3 standard selene and 2 superior in it...

[tough spear]

Considering I have a more ward than you that's where my damage is coming from

[minor hare]

26k ward = 1.1 mil more dmg?

[tough spear]

281k with that

Idk

[minor hare]

What spec?

[tough spear]

Cata

Also I probably have more att than you

[minor hare]

Oh okay same when I took that

[tough spear]

Running 7.9k att

[minor hare]

Ah

[tough spear]

Yeah so the combination of more att and more ward is whats giving me more damage

[minor hare]

Yeah that's a lot more att

[tough spear]

Also why is your ward so low

[minor hare]

No clue maybe it's bugged XD

[tough spear]

Haha

[minor hare]

Darn phone not screenshotting right

[tough spear]

Probably because you're not using 2 Carl rings

[minor hare]

My best are legendary

[tough spear]

They are still really good for Selene hands

[minor hare]

Almost identical stats now

?!

[tough spear]

I did use a zerk2 mushroom

[minor hare]

Oooh

Didn't notice that XD

Still not there...

Unless I used wrong mushy

[tough spear]

Again I do have more ward

More ward does = more damage

[minor hare]

Idk something seems off

[pastel geyser]

That looks like zerk 3 in yebs screen rather that 2

As both one and 2 have one arrows even in condensed status

[tough spear]

It's definitely zerk2 lol

[minor hare]

Still a huge difference in dmg

[tough spear]

My stats for this

[minor hare]

Do you have fey surtr coat?

[tough spear]

Nope

[minor hare]

Your shield has 30% more ward

[tough spear]

Herc

[minor hare]

Ooooh

I'm using standard gilga

[tough spear]

Who doesn't use herc for raiding

[tulip obsidian]

And sharpen

[tough spear]

So basically zerk3

[tulip obsidian]

Me because it makes me wanna kill myself

[minor hare]

I just couldn't stand herc. The lack of steadfast 2 drove me nuts

[tough spear]

I just panacea through everything lol

[grim parcel]

Me, standard gilga does the job

[pastel geyser]

It's not that bad

And 10% extra stats and ward boost are lovely

[tough spear]

But, but, but more damage

[grim parcel]

Not really need for WRB, for OT why not

imo

[minor hare]

Not more dmg if you can't move or have to Panacea XD

[tough spear]

But the times you don't have to panacea it's more damage

[grim parcel]

Until wrb burn you 😏 lol jokin’

everyone has their preferences 😄

[minor hare]

Oh dang!!!

Gigla herc made big difference

[pastel geyser]

Yeah

[minor hare]

So close to cap

Lugus got me to cap XD

If nothing else was cool to see a max hit XD

If gigla herc gets steadfast 2 I will have to consider it for sure

[pastel geyser]

I hope it gets it

[minor hare]

Deities kept theirs

[pastel geyser]

I am playing herc exclusively right now I forgot how useful steadfast now

[minor hare]

Yeah XD

Endless is horrible with herc

The lower attack, lack of resistance and immunity, and lack of steadfast 2 is a recipe for disaster

[pastel geyser]

But it hits hard

Though dragon resistance was a life saver with base

[minor hare]

Yeah hits hard as long as it pens

I get so far in endless even base gilga struggles XD

[tough spear]

How far did ya get

[minor hare]

My best

Floor 482

same as Baalinor last I checked. Was really funny I got knocked out same floor.

[minor hare]

I will say gilgamesh does well in anguish

I'm currently running:
Anguish 35 - boss horde (farming proofs)
Anguish 10 - hard dungeons/endless dungeons/towers/world
Anguish 0 or 5 - Raids

[novel bone]

We're not counting on Ursa right?

[minor hare]

I use regular gilga

[low crystal]

Big number boom on herc. So herc for me

[coarse terrace]

Herc is annoying

Imagine using immunity gear on a ward based class

[low crystal]

Just panna

[ebon totem]

dangy has switched from gilgamesh to summoner 🤣
just met him in the Arena

[pastel geyser]

Probably trying that new[REDACTED] THING

[ebon totem]

[rustic olive]

Do you sweep or cs?

[minor hare]

Chain Shield

boss horde anguish 35 with sweep is just a death scentence

[rustic olive]

How many minutes it takes to do a run? About 5 minutes?

[minor hare]

Probably around that yeah

Depends on the number of realmshifters

[rustic olive]

Yeah, I got you

Thanks for the info man

[minor hare]

np

[minor hare]

Base gilgamesh compared to the 2 melee deities.

Appalling how low gilgamesh base stats are 😦

Because these guys also have steadfast2, second chance, random buffs, and can wield any gear

Minus deity ursa but he can wear any melee gear

[novel bone]

Out of curiosity I looked at Gilga Ursa too, apart from HP he suffers from the same problems, not to mention the horrible passive he already has. Sad.

[minor hare]

I'm just not sure if Gilgamesh's stats are too low or Deity's are too high

or both

[flint geyser]

I really hope gilga family receive a balance stats, however every time i ask for some immediately start to read, no, gilga is ok, no he don't need any more balance.

And now with the release on anguish content the gap is even bigger(looking at gs, beos)

[novel bone]

To be honest it's a little frustrating, but I'm sure the ideas from here are being passed on

[low crystal]

Definitely agree that the survival gap is much smaller when looking at how well other classes could complete content a year ago and today.

I think the main issue is mostly the slow and steady power creep all live games face. But I dont know if that means that gilga should be buffed.

[minor hare]

More attack and hp would be nice

hp then leading to more ward as well

weird how herc gets an attack nerf too

[novel bone]

Although playing with all three I'm more aligned with Ursa, a decent passive in place of Crest of Avalon would be fair. Ideas have already been given.

[minor hare]

Ursa is a quite a difference

I go with spiked shields

[spare widget]

So, let's say Gilga's stats are too low as mentioned above. What does Base Gilga's stats look like with some balance applied in your mind?

What should be bumped up and how much?

[coarse terrace]

-300 MP & +1000HP ||in my opinion||

[spare widget]

Is that mana points or Magic points

[coarse terrace]

Mana points ofc

[spare widget]

Ok just wanted to be sure

So Defense, resist and Dex are all fine from your point of view?

[coarse terrace]

Def and Res are fine in my point of view, yes, but I don't get the point of Gilga having relatively high mana when it has Siphon Ward passive. Makes the passive much less dependable.

Hercules does not have it, yet it has slightly less mana somehow.

[flint geyser]

Dexterity definitely not, unless ss/cs are respected at high anguish content, otherwise we don't land a hit at nothing.

[tulip obsidian]

So what do you want

[coarse terrace]

Lower static miss chance, adjustment on CS' cost at full ward.

[flint geyser]

Ok, let's start at what are we consider as? High ward? Thanky player? What are we suppose to be?

[coarse terrace]

Current gilga is something inbetween. That is the main problem imo.

Either make it tanky or strong

Can't be both

[tulip obsidian]

What do you want to buff on base gilga

[flint geyser]

Personally ward, if we are the ward class then make that.

[tulip obsidian]

Lower static miss chance then 5%?

Personally I'd like to see higher def/res or mag/dex for no particular reason

[flint geyser]

As the right now, good luck landing a hit at immortal lords, and fallen shifter, at anguish level 50.

[tulip obsidian]

That has been stated to be a bug just gotta wait till thats fixed

[spare widget]

Would you say that right now Gilga is a pretty good mix of both tanky and strong, at least when it comes to end game builds?

[flint geyser]

Really nf say that? Either way until then,(which who knows when is going to be a fix for that)

[coarse terrace]

I would like to talk the person who gave us that information. Definitely not anywhere around 5%. At least not anymore.

[coarse terrace]

It is a good mix of both but doesn't make it solid for end-game gameplay.

Especially when all two of the celestial variants are utter 🚮

"Oh this class has 13% off hand effectiveness. Let me use immunity gear on it and lose like 30% of my ward."

[spare widget]

Well I have some suggestions out for the variants, right now I am looking more at how people feel about base gilga. Though I am sure we'll circle back around on the celestials again soon!

[tulip obsidian]

#1124395429652615404 message

[flint geyser]

Alrighty let's wait then, I guess.

[minor hare]

I definitely think something needs to be done between gilgamesh and deity though, deity shouldn't look like a strict upgrade

You would think it would be the class with the lowest stats considering it's insane buffs and access to literally every item

[minor hare]

Just came to this realization too. Because ascension is % based deities scale faster than gilgamesh

I looked at their stats compared to other classes and I never realized just how overpowered they are

[rustic olive]

I agree. Deity is better than Gilga on everything it does, except SS imo. The access to every item is a really boost
A buff on stats overall would be a thing but especially on def and hp. Gilga is suposed to be the tank class but Deity can do better

[ebon totem]

Make Bastille 2x again

🥲

[small canyon]

I raid almost exclusively with herc and do more damage with higher ward than base. And for immunities I'm normally just swapping Carl rings or shuffling head pieces between Avalon helmet, onc, and Avalon crown

There's a few statuses that are annoying like gerd's -t.all or occasional blind

While i'd love for the class to have steadfast I think the rest of it is built well for maxing spiked shield

[flint geyser]

Hercules for short raids is ok, however for long raids gilga base still the choice.
Hercules lose mana siphon, steadfast, immunity to arcane, and dragon resistance, IMO they say Celestial clases were more like side grades, this is clearly a downgrade, yes we gain some boost in the offhand side, losing 3 1/2 abilities vs gained only 1, is not the best option.

[spare widget]

How do you feel about the suggestion tendered for Herc? https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1131591892941938738

[flint geyser]

Yup, I agree, I swap second chance and guardian, for the others in a heart bit.

[coarse terrace]

You are forgetting the one extra skill slot Gilga Herc provides

[flint geyser]

And the less power in attack, dexterity, vs gilgamesh too.😂

Gilgamesh was terrible at dexterity already, now Hercules has less.🤷

Yesterday I was doing some hard boss dungeons,(anguish level 20) gilga/hercules man I can't land a hit at immortal lords, Fallen shifters, I swap to Ursa and the +438 dexterity is a HUGE difference.

[coarse terrace]

and also less mana

[flint geyser]

No biggie with ward siphon we cover that, no wait he lose that.😂

[pastel geyser]

Diffuse ward for the rescue

[flint geyser]

You mean losing a turn+ ward, so you have to lose another turn, to recover the ward you use, recovering your mana.🤔

Thats an interesting tactic.

[ashen bear]

Definitely lose a turn for the diffuse but if you're running proms feet like a lot of us are you don't need to recover your ward

[flint geyser]

Again for short raids is ok, for longer raids gilga base is better.

Heck for short raids selene hands are better.

So losing a turn, or killing faster, is better time wise.

[ashen bear]

I dunno i run herc even for long raids unless they're really spammy with status effects. The extra regen from bastille 2 and the extra damage on every hit seems to more than make up for hitting siphon ward or a panacea every so often.

[flint geyser]

By longer raids you mean?

[ashen bear]

Other realms, arisen Morg etc

[flint geyser]

How many AL you have, how long to take a morrigan.

[ashen bear]

Never really timed it, wouldn't say more than a couple minutes. Asc 66

[flint geyser]

With that many AL about right.
So we back to square one, something needs to be changed.

[ashen bear]

I don't know as much as I'd love stronger herc as a gilga main, if we were to give it even steadfast 1 I'm not sure if I'd ever really use base gilga.

[flint geyser]

And that's perfectly fine to play whatever you like, even if it not the best option we play something we like just because we like and that's enough.

However that doesn't mean we can't ask for a more balanced game vs other classes.

[ashen bear]

That's the thing I don't think we are in a bad spot in terms of balance.

[flint geyser]

Not in a bad spot, but not the best an nothing either.🤷

So yesterday I asked what we are suppose to be? Thanky class? Ward class? Because right now we are in the ??? Every class.

[ashen bear]

Not the most recent data, but gilga herc was ranking at the top for raiding and pvp offense when nf published their data. Since then a lot of other builds in other classes got nerfed. Herc still feels very strong at those to me. Ursa is one of the best defense classes. Gilga has good tower clears and seems to have fairly safe anguish farming which will likely be much quicker after bug fix.

There is no content I feel very weak at except doing endless in farming gear.

[low crystal]

I think base gilga is in a great spot. Echoing everything above

[flint geyser]

Unfortunately that data don't show the whole picture.

"A lot" of nerf for other classes really? Like?.

Ursa best defense, hmmmm I would say lucky is a more appropriate choice but ok, I probably give you that.

Farming anguish content we are some laps behind gs/beos.

Endless you say so, I don't do Endless so no say there.

So yeah.🤷

[low crystal]

I feel like it has been noted that summoner and beo are significantly better at 50 anguish then they should be. I believe there was a convo in t11 discussion

[ashen bear]

Just some example: blood pact nerfs, proms hands crit builds which hit other classes a bit more than gilga. Regarding ursa, yes lucky but unfortunately luck is one of the main factors in current pvp defense meta and ursa introduced a strong frequent rng. Feel pretty good farming anguish, might be optimistic but I'm pretty sure the miss rate bug is the only thing holding us back.

[stable gazelle]

Wasn't that published data just based strictly on completion?

[novel bone]

The fact that Ursa is one of the best defensive classes in PvP is only due to the fact that the class has an extremely unfair passive. Apart from that the class is bad compared to the other variants.

[ashen bear]

I agree.

[spare widget]

I still am feeling the burn from trying to retake some Mingus Dew territories while he was in Gilga Ursa 😄

[minor hare]

Well they start with full ward. So in pvp they just better at ss turn 1

Plus they have more ward then gilg

[minor hare]

Yeah I'm just starting to put AL into deity now

[proud isle]

this is why I mentioned the scaling ward abs would be more suitable for a pvp passive instead of Guardian (though I hate that there's a passive restricted to pvp at all)

[minor hare]

Yeah just go Deity and get Guardian passive applied to your base stats for everything XD

Gonna give Deity Ursa a go and I'll see how many acension it takes to beat my 44 ascension gilga

[ashen bear]

I think this is a very good idea

[proud isle]

It would give items like fallen sky boots more use too. As it stands extra ward damage doesn't really matter, just gotta hit those turn1 thresholds (does anyone even use those? I use a broken pair on my realmswash sometimes)

[spare widget]

See what you all think

#💡│suggestions message

[frank skiff]

Hi. I'm just posting here to say that, even if suggestion is about one passive, it holds 3 effects.
Maybe it should be 3 separate suggestions, for the sake of upvoting or downvoting what we like or not, instead of downvote if only 1 proposal isn't fine, etc

(but the work behind it is really cool)

[marsh laurel]

From what I'm reading, the suggestion is about a singular passive with three effects.

Splitting it into three suggestions would give the impression of three different passives, to me

[small canyon]

I like the creative thinking

[marsh laurel]

Fwiw, I also really appreciate the creative thinking. The aim to focus more on the classline rather than a class, will be a better approach. Good to look into expanding or adding to the identity of Warriors as a whole

[frank skiff]

Aye. But the proposal is exposed to be downvoted if only one or two effect aren't appreciated, or juste not voted at all because some effects are approved, other not.
Short intro like "this is the X part of an idea of one passive" should help, maybe 🤔

[marsh laurel]

Hence threads

The discussion can happen, and a new suggestion put up with enough feedback

Creating multiple threads would hinder that progress

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1134826785838743653

[frank skiff]

I don't think decreasing avoidance of target by a fixed % is the right solution. If Gilga can't touch anything without using a zero-miss skill, then issue is either in dex stat of the classline or dex calculation 🤔

[ebon totem]

mode change could be a good idea (or build change)

[marsh laurel]

Aegislash style?

[ebon totem]

use off-hand -> boost ward/def/res
use two-handed -> boost dex/att/mag

can synergy with Bastille

[novel bone]

Gilga Ursa don't have Bastille

[ebon totem]

then change it!

[novel bone]

I'm dreaming of this day

[ebon totem]

To be honest, the difference between 1.5x of Bastille and 2.0x(or more) of the other classes is a bit large

[small canyon]

Agreed

If not for spiked shield, gilga damage would be horrible comparatively

[tulip obsidian]

back to realmstrikes

[small canyon]

Right

This is the biggest issue with Ursa. Its such a great concept but a 20% passive that can be stacked a bit if you severely limit your weapon choices, give up both accessory slots, and be locked into a spec is way too much tradeoff for the return

The Ideas floating around on giving it an aoe boosting passive would give it the missing piece it needs to be fully functional

[tulip obsidian]

IMO Ursa should be the class that early t10 gilgas resort to for non spiked shield builds whilst also being good in horde dungeoneering

[small canyon]

Agreed

[tough spear]

Yeah but first you have to get 200k shards

[small canyon]

Early t10 gilga is painful

[tough spear]

I'd say that's pretty hard early on unless you are summoner

[pastel geyser]

Ursa is awesome for early game

[tulip obsidian]

not the point here but yes summoner is an amazing early t10 class

[pastel geyser]

||summoner ||

[small canyon]

What I'm farming uw's with and its good... but only because I'm al57

[tulip obsidian]

which buffs do you need

[small canyon]

Gunnr, bear, warcry, pew pew

Having almost 40k HP soaks the hits on buff rounds and between AL and a few fero's I have enough mana to run 25 floors without a pot and a couple extra swings to spare for an occasional sortie2

Non-250's without a ton of AL's just wouldn't be able to make this playable

[modern carbon]

The only saving grace I've had as a fresh T10 gilga was DC and lugu's boosting my damage

[proud isle]

love this idea, but don't love the idea of it being tied to a skill you activate both for low skill slot reasons and also turn economy. would be best if you had some way to start battle with the mode you want already active

[frank skiff]

Maybe play around on other spectrum of Bastille ? Like, the more ward you have, the more def/res you gain (up not to 1.5 but maybe 1.8), and the less you have the more att/mag/dext you gain ?

[ebon totem]

I think that's what I meant.
#1130839743706448034 message

[low crystal]

I think that starting at t8 the warrior should have a passive that somehow magnifies the out going damage of the next turn, depending on the incoming damage.

Imo this would let the class be the low def res sponge that it is with a huge ward pool, and cause a identity shift from the gods class that stack huge defenses.

This would also would have synergies with siphon ward.

[ebon totem]

a passive could be charged in the battle

But it's not friendly for farming

[low crystal]

Sure. But I thought there was an identity crisis for some folks on how gilga sits in the meta.

For farming sure. Base, low AL, gilga needs a big hand of help for horde stuff to be on par with the efficiency of other classes.

But I dont think an efficient tank is really what the class identity is about.

[spare widget]

That's kind of why I worked the suggestion the way I did, it's very play your way. Which seems to fit the new theme lately!

[modern carbon]

The way I see it is ever t10 class gets stronger when hp/mana is reduced except Gilgamesh. Maybe we should double down on improving Bastille.

[spare widget]

Well what are your specific ideas?

[modern carbon]

Bastille only increases damage right?

[tulip obsidian]

5% ward regen and 10 turns ward from start - but battle starts with 50% ward only. up to +50% base def/res/dex/mag/atk at 100% ward. starts at 50% ward and is 1%stats/1%ward

It increases all stats, like any other t10 passive (resurgence, iconoclast etc) .

Bastille 2 has 7% ward regen and starts with 12 turns and at 60% ward

Bastille 2 also has a higher scaling at 100%,altough im not to sure of the numbers. When i tested it in the beta it seemed to be 5-6% (multiplicative) better then Bastille I.

It might've been changed since then, i never bothered to test it. Apparently its a 60% stat increase

[modern carbon]

Thank you for this information, I thought it only boosted damage. If that's the case then changing Bastille wouldn't work without causing scaling issues.

[minor hare]

I have been playing gilga. It's good. But random silent nerf or bug to spike shield makes it miss more too

I'm still ascending my deity and getting gear ready for him. Seems like an all around better class imo

[marsh laurel]

For clarity here - there has been no nerf to Spiked Shield miss chance, to my knowledge. It would be something I think we'd be pretty transparent about.

[minor hare]

Ok. Maybe just bad luck then

[stable gazelle]

It's totally a MF issue with ang stat scaling that didn't raise health

Far from a bad luck thing

[minor hare]

I just need to earn enough orns to try and match my 44 AL on gilga XD

[coarse terrace]

I don't think it's just a MF issue. Chained Shield's second hit misses 30% of the time.

[ebon totem]

MF bug

[minor hare]

MF?

[ebon totem]

Mystic Feather

[stable gazelle]

I dunno, I've stopped trying to just hit rs with cs off the go. But the amount of 6+ misses in a row is absurd haha

And that's full health direct targetting

Can't comment on 2nd hit tho, haven't been paying that much attention to it

[minor hare]

oh right mystic feather

I wasn't talking about those cases

but yeah I'm aware of that

[stable gazelle]

But I definitely miss read your inital comment haha

[minor hare]

At what effectiveness does Deity use Spiked Shield?

[stable gazelle]

Half for everyone but gilga

[minor hare]

okay so I could probably still use it effectively with deity if I wanted to

For certain cases

[coarse terrace]

Deity has more hp and mana and it starts the battle with full ward so despite having a penalty on damage you can deal more turn1 damage on it using spiked shield.

[minor hare]

Yup

More attack, ward it's a nice class (ursa one in particular)

Ascension the big hinderance in switching classes sadly :/ and for me it's just the orns

[grim parcel]

It will be nice to have celestial variant near to the basic class, to switch quickly, and not after all t10 class

[flint geyser]

If we are only looking in 1,2 shots only, I still think Hercules beat deity for that.

[coarse terrace]

Don't think so. Lower att/hp/mana/ward. Doesn't seem possible

[flint geyser]

I need to find a deity with the same amount of al to test this.🤔

Maybe at lower AL deity beat hercules, however at high al 50/60/70+ definitely hercules have the upper hand there.

[minor hare]

As you get higher and higher AL, Deity will outpace gilgameshes

That's why I'm switching because I want to do high anguish

[coarse terrace]

If you want to do high anguish just ascend GS. Gilga is better at anguish farming than Diety, trust me.

[flint geyser]

Let's no start mixing apples with oranges.

[minor hare]

I hate oranges

[coarse terrace]

ayyy man thats racist

[minor hare]

Why you claim Deity worse than gilg?

[flint geyser]

Still, we were talking for one to 2 shots only, not a class as whole.

But even there gilga is better at some, deity at others, so.

[coarse terrace]

Deity is better than Gilga in short encounters, sure, but in long term Gilga beats Deity. If you need blast power Deity is better, if you need survivablity then Gigglega is better.

@minor hare

[minor hare]

With similar builds the slight lack of ward regen can be compesated by increase def/res, max ward, and hp

[coarse terrace]

What are you going to do about damage penalty? 😄

[minor hare]

There's other skills that actually better for certain cases

[flint geyser]

Sometimes is better to just say ok, and move, instead the just going circles to no where, for farming anguish(high level) horde you only have one option(mele/ warrior speaking)chained shield, no matter if you are gilga,dorado,mele deity.

[minor hare]

1 downfall of gilgamesh I've had was the spiked shield in endless - granted it does well and gets far, but when you run low on ward and they hit you hard every turn, sometimes you just can't attack

[low crystal]

Just a friendly heads up that the grass is always greener. A lot of deities were upset at the state of the game a bit ago. I dont know how grounded their take is. But I just thought I should remind you if you are seriously pumping up that class

[coarse terrace]

^

[tulip obsidian]

Yeah #811254836208074752 message

[minor hare]

For raids I plan to use ultima strikes anyways. Different setup, but it can hit up to 20 mil every 2 turns

[flint geyser]

Let's stop talking deities here for now.
So has odie or anyone from nf say something to at least look into all we are saying?
I mean there's a few nice ideas/concepts out already, but they(odie) are at least been considering take a look into.

A real thought not the usual answer of "we are always listening/looking at how made everything a more balanced game play"

[novel bone]

I'm sure what was suggested here reached them, but feedback would be interesting. To be honest I'm just waiting for an answer because I'm inclined to invest in another class.

Yes, I know I can invest in another class, but I'm the type of player who sticks with just one

[minor hare]

I wouldn't hold your breath on much changes for gilgamesh to be honest - in the last performance poll taking prior to the rebalancing, gilgamesh was one of the top performers

I have not heard any official word to any changes either

[low crystal]

It was noted that the polls were pretty biased. When looking at completion. Realm will always be in the back of the pack due to red lineing, right?

Tank class will always win completion polls. And many of the long haul players are gilga mains, so the game knowledge is much higher typically. (Another note about the different then other class pangs of early gilga)

[spare widget]

Think positive fellars! We can do eet!

[stable gazelle]

And if I'm not mistaken, those blue bar graphs were strictly: was the task completed? Yes/no

Nothing about performance in those tasks, atleast for what we were shown

[tulip obsidian]

Did the tank class survive the content? Yes it did

[low crystal]

Hence the unintended bias

I do think having some revenge mechanisms is a decent thematic play. Goes into taking ward damage and turning that into a m2 multiplier.

Other classes my have more ward/def/res. But they cant spec into the fantastic revenge mechanic.

Or for ursa a chaining mechanism for kills. Do you clear the dungeon floor? Awesome! Small stacking boost to some max value

[tulip obsidian]

Oh an ursa passive similar to RS corvus sounds cool

Did you use an aoe spell three times in a row? Here's ramping up attack/dex

[coarse terrace]

That sounds cool

[low crystal]

If ursa is the dungeon gilga. Then a non avidity or crit chain passive, that speeds the dungeons up would be cool!

Be especially cool for just dex. Like if ursa is the dexy gilga with little def that would be a breath of fresh air

Cause I assume nf will not move the needle on crest. Cause that has been a well documented downer the community noted

[spare widget]

Hmm

I think Crest passives for TG Ursa and Gilga Ursa feels pretty unoriginal, what could we suggest for both to add to a sense of progression and originality that synergize well with the classes

What if Gilga Ursa had an opposite of Bastille passive where the lower your ward was, the higher your stat bonus was up to some %?

On second thought, seems wonky

[low crystal]

I think the passive should be pile of bones: clearing mobs in a fight gains stats 0-x. Carrying over to each dungeon/tower floor. You have to play tanking at the start of content, but can ramp up. Snap shoting resets passive

Cause I want a scaling passive, but to scale on red/blue/purple doesnt make thematic sense

But a dualist/gladiator that swings a two handed sword, probably snowballs pretty hard once it gets going

[spare widget]

Keep in mind that passive would do absolutely nothing at all in pvp

Unless it's just another charged passive like Crest of Avaoln, which you could look at as "Clear mobs gain stats"

Just on a longer timescale

and probably a few % less than what you had envisioned

[low crystal]

Yah. I was thinking per content use. Ie every dungeon you start at 0 passive. But you ramp up to a high level when it gets hard

Its just an idea tho

Flat 20% was tough to see in the beginning. And harder to still see

[tulip obsidian]

Done some brainstorming, here are a few ideas. Numbers are really just placeholders.
Bastille: When you are at 90-100% ward you gain 25% additional defense and resistance.
Hercules: You gain increasing Status Protection with increasing ward (Steadfast 1 at 100% ward)
Ursa: Everytime you kill an enemy you gain 5% damage stacking up to 50% damage but it falls of if you dont use a damage ability. Good for horde gameplay and maybe orn endless while irrelevant for pvp.

[low crystal]

I like the ursa one. Getting the job done, but not the best at it

[coarse terrace]

No anguish level on. Happens only in towers. CS/SS misses 33% of the time, always like this:

[tulip obsidian]

made the ursa one into a suggestion #💡│suggestions message

[royal hamlet]

Low base status, action turns (negative state) and passive are focal points. Gilga face more issue than other class.

And, there is also a hidden problem, penetration. The other classes can rely on their high attack status (Rs 500+ more, herectic 400+ (mag)) under various difficult content. Deity have similar attack status, yet it can turn to mega and mitigate by ultimate(m1 4, m1 6). Gilga is specially hard to handle the game content with high defense. (ss1 3, ss2 2.4, ss3 2). gilga base status and warrior gear status are the main factor.

Would there is a new mechanism, which not base on attack status, to increase penetration?

[ebon totem]

boost att but reduce dmg

[royal hamlet]

then, why not dorado.

[low crystal]

I think increasing penetration is something that comes up frequently in the community. TBH I think it is something that should not be touched as there is never (or it is impossible) to impart a trade off for lowering the M2 value. Having high M1 and M2 is bad for the game state.

I think that the spiked skills have a very balanced system where you can grab the tool for the content you need.

I have only ever really had trouble with M1 since tinkering with high anguish. I think that having sources to cause defense downs is a better solution to this problem then changing the format of damage multipliers.

Strictly from a pve stance

[small canyon]

Agreed. Even in deep endless zerks can zero out basic attack which has an absurdly high m1. Using skills to debuff their defense is the solution.

[royal hamlet]

debuff defense just mitigate the issue not solve it. penetration directly defined the upper, lower bound and fading curve.

AL and anything to affect attack status would keep breaking this.

It just problem postponed, it would back and the thing must go on.

[low crystal]

Im not sure what you mean. Do you have times when you cant deal damage with ss1?

[flint geyser]

Anguish level 50, any zerf boss can easily zero out ss1.

[spare widget]

And you don't think they should be able to do so?

[spare widget]

New suggest up for thought and discussion #💡│suggestions message

[rustic olive]

You have my YES

[flint geyser]

And how we are supposed to killing then? By dotting?
If a 90+ AL can't kill a zerf boss with ss1 can imagine a much lower player.

[spare widget]

Maybe you aren't supposed to be able to kill them at Anguish 50 just yet

[flint geyser]

Why not?

[spare widget]

Because not all content introduced in a game is necessarily meant to be 100% winnable within a month of launch?

I mean mind you that's just my own personal opinion but I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to expect to be able to do Anguish 50 Berserks right out of the gate.

[frank skiff]

Excellent suggestion for warrior branch. However, it could be hard to overcome it without dots, since hit the newly restored ward would heal the 1hp Gilgamesh.
Maybe we could restaure % of Ward (Atlas X%, Gilga X+%, etc) and cap it à 50% or so ? It would be enough for either play defense and be around 75% ward at the end of the turn, or have enough for a counter-attack if the opponent is low HP

[ashen bear]

Yeah I've found with high anguish you should definitely have exploit and ss1 on your toolbar. If they're a really tanky mob you might need to switch to a pet with onslaught or wallop.

[flint geyser]

I'll stop after this because I don't want to derail this to off topic, but yeah I fully expect to be a fully consumable product when you put out for public consumption(either video games or any other product) especially when all of the(patron,alpha,beta)testing before the release.

Have good day week.

[spare widget]

You too!

[unique epoch]

at 50% there's no stat boost though, and if that newly gained ward is used for healing, then it also means that you would use some of that ward (and thus likely have lower stats again). also, if you spend one turn healing, then whoever hit you hard enough to proc second chance can just use their turn to hit you again, because you aren't doing anything to them while healing yourself

[frank skiff]

If it gave DB or DB2, then the player can safely just regen ward with passive, weapon and ortanite/skill.
Absorbtion would be at 100%, so the opponent will heal the player when doing damage

But indeed it would lower stats bonus

[unique epoch]

what do you mean by "the opponent will heal the player when doing damage"?

there are specific items that do heal ward damage yes, but it's not baseline

[royal hamlet]

Attack and DEX (and so on) eliminate so many things of Gila. SS is not the symbol Gila, like ss1 and chained shield. High attack is easy to overcome the classes' punishment and done better job. Low and no strong point on status is easy replaced by other classes. (Dorado, deity)

Either in past or current. These have no change in root, same problem appear and keep making gilga unfit of the game environment.

The problems should handle 3 year ago. No change and it will always there.

[spare widget]

Channel all that frustration into positive and creative energy my friend. We may or may not get any changes done but at the very least we can come up with some good ideas to present to the studio 🙂

[low crystal]

I mean all respect. But I want to deep dive this case. What are you running and what do you expect that gearing set to accomplish. Because if it is true you are using meta gear and cant damage a zerk boss at al 90+. While Summoners can defend spam for the win. Definitely makes for a case for there to be some high end tuning.

But maybe that looks like a skill set for the mons to be introduced with aoe skills that works like beast bonds but for anguish

And not necessarily a buff to gilga

[spare widget]

I would like to point out, there have always been classes that have been better at certain type of content than others and NF certainly supports that in how easy they have made class switching.

[low crystal]

For sure! A efficiency difference is fine. But a inability to complete content based on what class you have invested in is different.

A few recent changes to the class change meta is celestial classes. And more to the point thief’s avidity addition allows that class a shot at horde content. Its not as effective as hera, but can complete content.

In summary. All classes should be able to complete content. It is fine to have a sliding scale for amount of time to complete content.

[ashen bear]

I was honestly more surprised that some classes could do 50 rather than other classes not being able to. My impression was that anguish was in a sense future proofing satisfying difficulty for those with high asc.

[low crystal]

Agreed

[flint geyser]

That's exactly my complaint the dispar at classes, gilga just not having enough dps to go through that, but other classes are having a walk in the park.(and with way Less al too🤷)

Even after casting dc ss1 is just zero out.

My gear.

That put me at over 350k ward and even with that, good luck beating a zerf boss, or a fallen shifter.

[low crystal]

Yah that is the meta. I am sure if you put up a video on tragedy with SS1 0ed there would be some traction.

[flint geyser]

Hmmm, I made a thread (bug channel)about not hitting a real shifter at full hp, and not a single response from the NF not even saying yeah we are aware, or we are working on that.🤷
I got an answer from big yoshi were odie was talking about that saying something about it, and saying expecting a fix "soon"

[low crystal]

Yah man. I think (and trust) that they have a list of outstanding items that need to be addressed. But at the end of the day they are a small studio. So “soon” is the only thing they CAN promise.

Tbh I dont think they will get to a change for months. End game content has been cracked recently. I wouldnt be surprised if they focus on full player base content for a while. The best we can do is note items for NF and trust they will get to it. They havent let us down yet.

[tulip obsidian]

I made a post about that on the orn discussion channel earlier today. Its definitely on their workload, problem is they have a LOT to do rn... We need some patience

[flint geyser]

The way I see it, not about patience(even if we don't have nothing can be done about it) but communication, is like this thread we don't know if they are thinking about something. What we are saying here or not.

We don't even know if they think gilgas family need a tweak or not.

[coarse terrace]

What was the last time you checked out #1084635587715281028 ? They also have tons of upcoming content to work on. And despite being a small team they manage to do all those wonders on two different games. Please have patience.

[marsh laurel]

We aren't ignoring folks' desires, and always understand that players want changes and attention to various things that are important to them.

Fwiw, I think the ORN guys are working really hard to make sure desires are consistent so they can do their best to present us with solid options when it's time to do something.

[spare widget]

sings in a beautiful Baritone I load 16 tons and what do I get? Another day older in deeper and debt.

[minor hare]

So I did test out Deity Ursa

My Conclusion. I regret putting 44 AL in Gilgamesh, and Deity Ursa is better.

[tulip obsidian]

care to give an explanation?

[minor hare]

Better stats in everything, random attack ups, randomly immune and resist elements

Has better view range because equip helhests

Ultimastrikes amazing in raids

Oh and it actually has skill slots

I just need a lot of orns to get it's AL up :/

[spare widget]

So is Ultimastrikes style play noticeably better on Deity Ursa than it would be on Gilga Ursa?

Also Gilgamesh Ursa can equip helhests

I agree though it does feel a little bad trudging around with less VD on regular Gilga

I get around that though by entering dungeons as one class then fleeing, class swapping and continuing from the prompt

[minor hare]

It's noticably better yes

[marsh laurel]

I have both and much prefer Ultimastrikes on Gilgamesh Ursa than Deity Ursa.

The constant active passive is brilliant, and the HP pool lets me straight up get away with not using ward

[minor hare]

Gilga has a lot less mana than deity too, ultimastrikes is very costly in mana

[marsh laurel]

It recovers mana on ward hit if that is an issue, like a bunch of it

[minor hare]

Ah true

But has a lot less ward in return

[marsh laurel]

Might be the gear you're running.

My Gilga is Ascension 33, Deity is Ascension 25 and yeah, Gilgamesh Ursa Ultimastrikes raiding to me, is a lot better than Deity Ursa Ultimastrikes raiding

I never achieve passive with Deity, and the temp ups rarely proc at the right time to be considered reliable in a raid scenario

For horde content, I'd agree it's much more reliable

[spare widget]

Personally I both like and dislike Crown of Avalon. It's nice in that you can charge it up and forget about it. But stat potential as far as I am aware is the exact same as TG's

Sorry Crest

[marsh laurel]

Stat potential meaning the passive bonus?

[spare widget]

Yes

[marsh laurel]

It's the same passive as anywhere else it is used in game, yes

But in practice it works very well, as it is constantly active all battle

Regardless of HP, ward or mana state

[spare widget]

hence my previous statement of both liking it and disliking it 😄

[minor hare]

But the higher base stats of deity also make the buffs increase the attack more

[spare widget]

I have to say though Gilga Ursa has become my new go to fo dungeon runs

[rustic olive]

Crest of Avalon works in pvp?

[marsh laurel]

No

[marsh laurel]

I'm having the opposite experience to you, and tried both a lot. It's interesting to hear that, especially if you're saying you've invested heavily in Gilgamesh Ascensions (and presumably not in Deity?)

That's what I use for both, and Gilgamesh Ursa performs much more reliably for me

[spare widget]

Those 2 40% crit amities?

[marsh laurel]

They are, yes

[tulip obsidian]

What are the Nag Belts for? Lotan? Does that work?

[spare widget]

Hmm I just assumed he was running them for status protection, never considered about pet blight effect

[tulip obsidian]

if he wanted status protection he should run ymir charms

[marsh laurel]

Lotan, yeah

All assassin type affects apply to follow debuffs as far as I'm aware, have for a long time

[tulip obsidian]

i should really get that cowl, good that my alt kingdom has some orns

[marsh laurel]

Cowl is handy instead of using an ONC or Fey Yeti Horns

I'm finding lately that taking off one crit Amity and replacing it with one 50% positive status duration Amity is a good call, due to DC falling off

[spare widget]

I know it's effective but I still can't bring myself to use Oracle

[tulip obsidian]

oh god this again

[spare widget]

Hahaha

It's like using Heretic

[tulip obsidian]

im considering ascending beo just for anguish horde play (with orn gear)

the changes that class got this year have really made it shine

[spare widget]

Just push for Gilga changes to make it shine as bright 😉

[tulip obsidian]

Yeah, but i doubt Gilga will ever farm orns better then (h)hb

[spare widget]

Beo Auriga seems pretty effective at that, I really should run Towers on my alt to get Auriga

Then again I guess I really should run more towers on my main too 😄

[tulip obsidian]

you should really just run towers man

[marsh laurel]

Wait Strahd, you've never player with Oracle?

It's like... Maybe the best spec hahah

Doubling up on Amity effects is huge

[tulip obsidian]

He is using it for amity hunting but everything else is too cheesy for him

[minor hare]

Yeah it's hitting well with gilga ursa

but that huge hit to ward with the class though 😦

[earnest furnace]

I just swapped to oracle and never swapped back

[earnest furnace]

what? not for orns?

[tulip obsidian]

Endgame specs are t5/5/7

[minor hare]

I typically use cataphract on Gilga and oracle for memory hunts

I use spiked shield builds

[spare widget]

you run spiked shield for Hard Boss Orns?

[marsh laurel]

I'm not finding that I am dying that regularly, at least not in builds that I'm trying to make Ultimastrikes function better than SS3. To me the ward should only be enough to keep you alive by the time the raid ends, not any more than that

If I maximise ward more, it impacts damage output, on both Deity and Gilga. Means I may as well run SS3.

[spare widget]

When I find a couchable amity hour I will use Oracle but otherwise I just can't bring myself to do it. I fully admit it is a totally silly reason and won't even try to defend the why, hehe

[tough spear]

So do you not use oracle when doing a bunch of hb

If so you're missing out

[spare widget]

Yeah, I know

[earnest furnace]

🪦

[marsh laurel]

I wish I had two of these 50% duration and 4% ward recovery amities, cause then I'd give away Cataphract for good

[spare widget]

One day maybe I'll pick up another accessory effectiveness amity and swallow the kool aid

[minor hare]

This one does good in cata spiked build

[tulip obsidian]

Double 20% earthen damage for life

[small canyon]

What's on your c.axe?

That video is sexy

[tough spear]

Looks like crit augments

[tulip obsidian]

+crit -res prom hands

[small canyon]

All?

[marsh laurel]

All hands of Prometheus for +crit, yeah

[small canyon]

Thought it would have more than is showing

Oh I'm dumb

[marsh laurel]

I have been playing around with other options, and it's just the most consistent for Ultimastrikes in my experience

[small canyon]

Dual wielding

[tulip obsidian]

Lost art could also be cool to dualwield

[marsh laurel]

Forg tested that and found the Achlys finesse to be better

[tulip obsidian]

Unfortunately i have successfully dismantled each and everyone of those

[small canyon]

Signet has been running Oceanus lungs and crit on the cowl and really liking the quickcast version

[marsh laurel]

I tried it also, quite a bit. Tbh got frustrated with the non-quick cast instances. Felt like I was wasting my augments

On any *Ultima sequencer build, quickcast is insane

[small canyon]

Working on getting a cowl

how much quickcast does 5 lungs give?

[marsh laurel]

Ahhh memory test, but I think it's around 75%, right?

Sequencer builds get the full 100%

[tough spear]

Yeah 75%

[small canyon]

that's not too bad

also let me share something...

got my first ornate JOC today

[low crystal]

what

That is some bad rng mate

[small canyon]

yeah... been getting RNG'd hard

[low crystal]

Ill pour some out for you later lol

[tulip obsidian]

Damn

[small canyon]

got a whole pile of legendaries lol

[tulip obsidian]

I have 8 / 2,4k

[small canyon]

maybe i've used up my bad rolls and they'll start dropping now lol

[tough spear]

I'm at 12 / 3.7k

[marsh laurel]

Don't check triumph and tragedy then, Ryzzo

[small canyon]

curious what everyone still uses base gilga for?

[earnest furnace]

8/3.2k here