crimson spire
In PVP, AL have an impact. Remove it, and half the veteran population will quit. Keep it, and sub t10s have a hard time winning fights. What should be done about this? How can we make Orna an inclusive game for all tiers while keeping the incentive to further progress our characters?
Lets be real, there isn't (currently) much new content to do now besides farming gear + AL for endgame players.
hot river
Separate the tiers imo. Rn we already have t10 and t11. Make it so for say every 20 asc u are bump up a tier. So a t10 with 22 asc will match in t11 zone. While a t11 with 67 asc will match in t14. (Aka other t11 asc 60-80 or t10 asc 80-100)
gilded ruin
That could work in arena but how about territory control?
plush prawn
Soft cap is a meet in the middle imo
sinful lily
Since NF announced they were in favour of it I've been dreading the thought. Such a huge investment disappearing. Ascending in PVE is irrelevant.
The thought of it literally putting me off even playing . What's the point of putting the work in if it's getting deleted?
half ledge
Imo, subt10 should auto lose the fight against t11 just from the pressure.
I don't know, offensive pvp is easy regardless of al most of the time.
But I wouldn't care if al doesn't work in wars and coliseum.
In area control I'm softly against doing away with al. I mean, what's the point of all your hard work across years if a new player with 2 months can easily take your areas?
I mean a 0 al lv 250 can steal territory from 100 al 250. They just can't do it easily and I think that is fine.
Disclaimer: I don't care much for pvp and am lowish al so I don't really care about al changes outside of pve.
plush prawn
If a lower tiered player can KO a higher tier, props to the newer tier. There has always been ways to do so, I'd rather that not stop.
Offense being easy most of the time is difficult to discuss since everyone has their own perspective.
Otherwise, imo removing AL entirely from pvp is a deal breaker. There should be something else done.
runic ice
Oh yeah I'd be done with the game for sure. Competition with other players is what keeps me grinding, I don't do it just so raids and gauntlets will be easier. It's barely even noticeable past a certain al. The fact that it even Crossed their minds and they think it's a good idea really worries me
viscid rose
Make 2 type arena , 1 keep AL and 1 not.
And keep AL in territory fighting.
So fresh T10s/T11s can win in non-AL arena , and we still have REAL fighting in AL arena and territory
arctic zealot
Remove AL from live pvp - or have the option to play without it.
In PvE or versus AI , I personally feel they should stay.
Having a tournament of strategy and game knowledge be detirmined by how hard someone can alt boss dungeon , isn't exactly fun, entertaining or inclusive to the average player (who generally will not be using alts to power level)
Territory needs to be separated into tier control - so you only have to battle to hold a spot of the area (like old pokemon GO gyms), one spot per tier, or something like that.
The controllers rewards are tiny and multiple holders will not dilute the "value" of holding the area.
If anything illicit many more players to participate, or someone making an army of twinks
half ledge
"making an army of twinks"
That would happen for sure lol
jolly wolf
Since NF announced they were in favour of it I've been dreading the thought. Suc...
Important to make it established: this rumour was due to a misread of a comment, and is untrue. I'm surprised it's still being brought up.
the comment suggested that both members of the studio and members of the community responded positively to the idea. It was not said that we were in favour of the change.
We react positively to dozens, if not 100s of suggestions a day. This does not mean they are all the best for the future of the game, nor does it mean they will all be implemented.
brave bay
I really hope ascension are not capped from any aspect/content of the game.
jolly wolf
that's definitely the popular opinion, as the survey suggested
jolly wolf
(addressing a deleted comment)
With how it was worded, I don't see a problem mentioning topics that are on the minds of some players.
Unfortunately, there is little I can do for those that continue the rumour. sorry!
sinful lily
If your going to mention topics then they will be discussed.
jolly wolf
hmmm...Where was anyone told not to discuss them? I don't think that happened here
sinful lily
Ok mate
jolly wolf
ok, indeed.
This thread is open so that players can explore the topic. there is nothing wrong with players (or studio) exploring ideas, topics, so on, so long as it is productive.
Just please don't preface the conversation by stating the studio has taken a stance. that might sway or mislead others.
otherwise, have a nice convo/day 🙂
dry pier
Remove AL from live pvp - or have the option to play without it.
That would make for a more interesting tourney, I like the idea of being able to fight without al for those competitive players.
But for arena and territory I think it should stay the way it is. Part of the feeling of progression is hitting a new tier and feeling outclasses then grinding and being stronger. I feel like the game would lose something.
For area control though I think it just needs overhauled in general because that feeling of awe at how strong a player is quickly turns to annoyance realizing you won’t be able to interact with it for 200 levels.
spring oracle
AL in its current form leaves a ton to be desired, especially for something that's supposed to promote long-term gameplay. A big issue is that the bulk of players will probably never surpass AL30, and a comparably small cohort will far surpass that as time passes. Add on that it overwhelmingly rewards those who can make Orna their life the most and it turns into a system of massive power disparity. Ultimately, most players will see little benefit while elite players continuously increase a massive edge over others until they burn out.
spring oracle
I think the system could be improved with two steps that would positively impact the bulk of the player base without throwing out all of the work that elite players have put in.
The first step is to have a staggered AL boost, such that earlier levels give higher stats and it drops as the AL levels increase. I would propose AL1-A10 give a 3% boost, AL11-AL20 give a 2% boost, and everything beyond remains the current 1%. This early incentive to AL's would make the system more appealing to the majority of players without harming higher AL players (it'd actually boost them even higher).
The second step is really the most important part of this- have AL's between different classes determine an overall AL bonus. What I mean is have a player receive a portion of the AL bonus for a given class dependant on how many other classes they have at that same AL with let's say the max bonus occurring when 4 of the base classes (not celestials) in a given tier are at that AL. This would allow players to continuously grind out their main class but promote diversification to make the AL's mean more. The largest bonus would come from the first 10 levels of a given class, followed by the next 20 and leveling out after that point. High AL players would still receive a fairly large bonus from their work, but it would be brought down by this move to make it not an overwhelming advantage against the bulk of players.
Here's an example for step 2:
(all numbers are purely for demonstration, not set proposed values)
A player has the following classes with AL's:
Gilga- AL10
Hera- AL12
Realm- AL22
Deity- AL41
All classes would receive 100% of AL bonus through AL10 (30%)
3 classes receive 75% of the bonus for ALs 11 and 12 (+3%, 33% overall)
2 classes receive 50% of the bonus for ALs 13-22 (+9%, 42% overall)
The highest class receives 33% of the bonus for ALs 23-41 (+6%, +48% overall)
Personally, as someone who's turned casual from my more active days, this is a system I would enjoy.
crimson spire
33% for all 23+ maybe?
what about the AL 50+ folks
another off topic idea is if the territory degradation is increased. like u lose 10 defense every day the territory is not visited
idk
spring oracle
Like I said, all numbers are only to demonstrate the idea, they are all up for debate.
sinful lily
Difficult to find a balance for territory. People work hard to take it and control it but lower tiers get locked out
spring oracle
what about the AL 50+ folks
I went and did some more calculations, and here's how the numbers would look under certain thresholds.
AL50/75/100 would have a:
26.7%/35%/43.3% boost with no other ALs on other classes
31.7%/40%/48.3 boost with one other class at AL10
39.2%/47.5%/55.8% boost with two other classes at AL10
46.7%/55%/63.3% boost with three other classes at AL10
I'll follow up after I get off work on getting the other classes to AL20.
Getting 4 classes to AL20 would be a flat +50% though, so someone at AL100 would have a 90% boost, and someone at AL50 would actually have a 60% boost. I'm struggling with math a little. Went back through and realized this was wrong
crimson spire
dang this is very cool
runic ice
I think the system could be improved with two steps that would positively impact...
Regarding the second part that doesn't do anything to address power disparity, makes it worse actually. I'd just take a break from ascending my main class and get that free bonus from ascending other classes since lower levels of ascension are a lot easier to obtain. Not that I think there's anything wrong with power disparity. If you put in the work you should be rewarded 💪
spring oracle
Regarding the second part that doesn't do anything to address power disparity, m...
I'm going to make a new thread for this, don't want to derail this one more away from its original topic.
livid pollen
People talking about losing stats on territories. You guys are aware that of my 170k areas probably 120-130k are not in cities? Little towns are so small its probably 10-15 per. Almost all of it is highways or back roads pretty far from anyone. Taken probably from a t6 dead account. Most of the areas anyone doesn’t visit for a long time means either me and the few that have the interstates or the Walmart on the other side of town.
spring oracle
People talking about losing stats on territories. You guys are aware that of my ...
A can attest to this. Most territories I've held for long periods of time we random ones out in the middle of nowhere. The only city territories I hold are for places I frequently go like home or work. Even stuff relatively close to cities tends not to last long, even against lower tier players.
livid pollen
Exactly. Even now I still have trouble holding some cities. (Dallas Chicago 🤢)
Lowering defenses won’t be as helpful as people think
spring oracle
Part of Chiraq's trouble comes from Grumbles iirc, no? And seconded
livid pollen
He’s pretty passive. Dorttan isnt 😂
spring oracle
Great players will continue to do be great at PVP, building out specifically to dominate across many different PVP scenarios. A well built players by all means should be challenging to take on.
I can never remember all the specifics, but it was fun taking the train system and conquering territory, I imagine a lot of territory trading happens on that
livid pollen
Definitely agree. There is no better feeling than finally catching up to the monster that holds and being able to take from or stop him consistently. First time I stopped PK was an experience.
Hell. Grumbles 😂. I think I got drunk that day. Took him 10 minutes to break me again, but small wins right? Lol
spring oracle
I think I took 1 area from Grumbles in or near downtown, maybe 2? It felt monumental to say the least!
untold bronze
Few solutions I could see :
Also this should be in a PVP revamp update more than an ascension update.
For me the one-shot fiesta has to stop in order to make PVP interesting.
runic ice
One shot meta is way better than a stall meta. It's not even a true one shot meta, half the classes have second chance which has a high proc rate and often procs twice in a row. Capping ascension and reducing ascension effectiveness are really bad ideas
shadow cedar
Kick it out of area PVP, imagine someone lives near someone in the trple digits. Keep it in arena for challenge
spring oracle
Keep it in both but drop it from live
livid pollen
Kick it out of area PVP, imagine someone lives near someone in the trple digits....
Then you don’t get to control the 50 areas in your neighborhood that give you 2,600 gold , 278 orns and that elusive leather, bone and soul mats 💀
woeful geyser
Few solutions I could see :
- reduce AL benefits (~~1%~~ -> 0.1%)
- hard cap (c...
I like the hard cap idea, make it like 75% of the average active T11, if u have more u need special items to progress ( like shards or just X amount of ornate gear etc. )
untold bronze
from what I see, pvp is doomed to remain unbalanced and uninteresting unfortunnately. The current meta where you deal more damage than people have HP is killing it. Stall would be good either but you could balance that too (like increasing damages to ward in pvp.
brave bay
from what I see, pvp is doomed to remain unbalanced and uninteresting unfortunna...
Not so good for gilga players, every other class are not so dependent at ward, so unless you give some other buffs a gilgas, that move is not so good.
Pvp is never going to be fair, because the game itself(classes) are not really fairly equally so.
crimson spire
waiting for SOME indication from NF regarding their plans for AL. cuz rn it's a huge turnoff to playing the game or progressing my character knowing that all of it might be worthless
open bramble
from what I see, pvp is doomed to remain unbalanced and uninteresting unfortunna...
There's a specialization and also amities/gear that increase damage to ward... no need to increase damage to ward. People need to figure out different builds to break through tougher opponents.
Hell, RS in itself does more damage to ward. Plenty of ways to wipe ward out quick
crimson spire
Ehh in pvp once I see a gilga use ward of ortanite, I give up
Most of the time the best bet is to 1 shot through the health bar
jolly wolf
waiting for SOME indication from NF regarding their plans for AL. cuz rn it's a ...
Well, we're not going to do anything that would render player progress useless. So, feel free to play as you would
crimson spire
Well, we're not going to do anything that would render player progress useless. ...
could you elaborate a bit more please? for example a hard cap AL would pretty much ruin progress for those above the cap. Does this mean a cap is out of the picture? I understand things aren't completely fleshed out yet so you wouldn't want to say too much, but just something that'll reassure vets that we can ascend without regretting it later on
jagged cairn
cap AL to 200.
jolly wolf
could you elaborate a bit more please? for example a hard cap AL would pretty mu...
(This message is not confirmation of any change)
If we were to add a cap (even when we've confirmed the community agrees on no cap), we'd be finding a way to transfer progress/power to secure player investment. We've been pretty vocal about respecting player investment
shadow cedar
(This message is not confirmation of any change)
If we were to add a cap (even ...
I wish somebody like you would run for president
crimson spire
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If we were to add a cap (even ...
This means a lot! Thank you Odie
crude kestrel
I dont mean to single people out, but....
Very in favor of a soft cap (wherever that may be) and a hard cap (wherever that may be) if ALs remain the current endgame focus in its current structure.
You should be rewarded for the work you put in, but not to infinity. And if you reach caps, ascend other classes. Plenty of content around still. The population that is above 50 AL in a class is a tiny percantage, and above 100 can probably count on two hands.
Again, not meaning to single out, obviously refund those with big time investments but the majority of the player base is sub 50 ALs and should be weighed in a vote somewhat as such
livid pollen
I like infinite. Weirdly
stiff pilot
so do most people according to the balance survey
wooden river
ascend other classes
so what do you do after reaching cap on all classes?
wooden river
facts
sinful lily
If the amount of people over 100 is negligible then why does it matter?
crude kestrel
All it takes is 1 in your region/pvp tourney
wooden river
if they're putting in the work, i don't really care if i ever get mjol or bggg in my region
they deserve it
for pvp tourney, just have custom pvp modes/rooms where you can set options to not have ascension bonuses
verbal scarab
*ascend other classes*
so what do you do after reaching cap on all classes?
advocate for a hub to idle in and show off your godforges, the true endgame for rpgs
runic ice
Complaining about territory is such a newbie thing. I expect it from new players who don't understand how little territory actually matters but not T11's
wooden river
Complaining about territory is such a newbie thing. I expect it from new players...
t11s in the same region as mjol/biggg/other similar players: 
spring oracle
t11s in the same region as mjol/biggg/other similar players: <:mighty_mimic:9863...
He speaks as someone who's in the same area as Untold Atrocity like me
runic ice
Untold barely had any territory. I can beat him on offense too. There's probably only a tiny, tiny # of people I couldn't beat on offense and I'm only al 47
jagged cairn
Untold barely had any territory. I can beat him on offense too. There's probably...
only
runic ice
A year ago I would agree with you but the average al has really jumped a lot. A mix of it actually being easier and people getting more efficient at it
near wigeon
Separate the tiers imo. Rn we already have t10 and t11. Make it so for say every...
I don't agree with this. Part of the fun of working towards high AL is to dominate. Separating the way you suggest would take away that. Given that pvp isn't of huge consequence there's not really a need to separate further then it does
crude kestrel
Constant heavily debated topic
I personally believe the only place AL cap/removal/nerf whatever should apply is live pvp
150AL vs 20AL. Who fonna win? The guy with more time on his hands, not the guy who has the cheeky strategy
Everything else no caps whatsoever
Just need a pvp mode where stats are equalized to 0ALs
Let game knowledge battle it out
Otherwise this discussion has no application IMO. Territory control, absolutely 150AL keeps the territory. PVE? Let him dominate
brave bay
Removing the AL is giving advantage to some classes because not all classes are equally strong, without AL.
Just take a look at GS for example. With all the foresight he is going to go all ways first.
crude kestrel
In live pvp if all are ALs reduced to zero you can play any class you want
gilded ruin
al doesnt even affect foresight does it?
or does it still increase foresight from gear?
placid pulsar
Don't think it affects either
crude kestrel
AL has no effect on foresight
brave bay
In live pvp if all are ALs reduced to zero you can play any class you want
Well with your point of view, you can put more al in your main class too,
crude kestrel
Well with your point of view, you can put more al in your main class too,
? My point of view is 0ALs for live pvp so putting more ALs anywhere doesn't matter
brave bay
Foresight is not affected by al, that why I put gs for example, because since Foresight is not affected, gs have an advantage over others class already.
crude kestrel
If i play GS or Diety or Realm it's all same AL for Live PVP so class differences dont matter
We just went thru a tournament when GS was super broken and it still wasn't a problem. The deities were the last ones standing
And the highest AL deities won
brave bay
I just put a gs for example I never say he was OP.
crude kestrel
For sure. Im just saying the Foresight isnt that big of an advantage for GS
brave bay
Mi point is until all classes are equally, pvp never going to be fair.
With 0 al, there classes who has a clear advantage, now with al there is another classes who have that.🤷
crude kestrel
But you can choose your class
open bramble
Just because GS has more foresight doesn't mean it's impossible to beat their foresight and go first. The deities created higher fs builds to go first over gs. They have way higher base def/res etc. Should GS match that? No. Foresight is their advantage. Not every class is going to have the same base stats and never will.. that's silly logic to not have it removed from live PVP. That's the only place I agree it should be removed from (solely because they do tournaments and give out titles for it, otherwise it wouldn't matter there either), or at least capped. Everywhere else, unlimited
