For Celestials, delete the Weapons and let us use Augments 1per god on base weapons

[storm topaz]

My radical suggestion for fixing Celestial Weapons/Adornments is this:

Delete the weapons entirely and unlock the Augments for the rest of the game; however only do so with a restriction of one augment per god per weapon.

The real problem with the design space of Celestial Weapons is that weapons and weapon adornments are two separate item categories. Since this is the case, it makes it very hard to balance Celestial weapons because if you want them to be good, then its outcompeting two separate sets of items instead of one which is how the rest of the game works.

Of the two parts of the Celestial Weapon/Augment pair;

• Augments are this extremely rich land of unique game effects and powerful ornate possibilities
• Weapons are this lifeless cycle of uniform weapon types just to check the box on every major game mode

Do away with weapons entirely and refund the shards we all spent on them. Would I like to use shoulders of prometheus on my Ymir Brilliant Feathers? That sounds exciting to me, IDK about you. With a restriction of one per, youll never crowd out the preexisting metagame of weapon adornments but you still get to upgrade your gear set in a unique way that still makes it worth it for you to chase old and new weapons.

Delete Celestial Weapons entirely and let us use Augments 1per on normal weapons

[compact reef]

one per is way to little
if one was enough, people would use 5 different augments on their celestial weapons, or a combination of 1-2-2 / 1-1-3 / 2-3

i also disagree with the idea of removing them entirely
beta testing was done, nobody had an issue with them, but the augments are the ones that proved too powerful in the live version,

[spiral sun]

Oh God. Too hardcore 😂😂

Wish I knew more about augments. But I only know like…4-5.

The same 4-5 everyone knows

[compact reef]

i know 1

being a realm and all

[storm topaz]

That would be a feature not a bug. 5 still leaves room for you to run Blackened Eyes, Fero Eyes, Gorgon Eyes, Ashen Ruby, etc

[compact reef]

I didn't call anything a bug or a feature...so where'd you get that from?
also, celestial weapons only seem strong because they're the only things that can use augments, if you allowed for any weapon to use augments then said weapons will skyrocket in power due to already being strong without them

[graceful sedge]

why not make some more unique augments for normal weapon, like ashen ruby
why does that need to include the deletion of celestials

[compact reef]

imagine an arisen fey badb catha with 5 steady hands of prometheus

[storm topaz]

This kinda sums up my argument why:

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1102413504629198908

[graceful sedge]

weapons with unique effects that makes them special can exist at the same time as celestials

you dont spend so much development time into a system and then just delete it

"i dont like the fallen deity fight - please delete towers" would not be a good argument either

[spiral sun]

I see where he’s coming from. I could certainly imagine a lot of nice builds. Idk if exactly ONE augment per weapon…but we already had a lot of really good gear. It’s all become useless now

[shut sedge]

yll gonna refund the 400k shards i spent on weapons?

cuz if not, i dont wanna do this

[storm topaz]

Yes and give us a new cycle of alt classes to spend shards on

[compact reef]

locking augments to celestial weapons definitly outright removes the need to grind anything except towers, unless you want to dual wield

[graceful sedge]

having celestial weapons be a stat stick with a toolkit of useful augments while boss/raid weapons have some unique effect like the north pole would be great

celestial weapons being the only option is not good, that i agree with

but starting an argument with "just delete this big piece of content you just released" is not a good idea

[storm topaz]

My argument is its hard to balance them right because Celestials in their current form are either better than Base Weapons/Augments or they’re worse.

Itll never be that Celestial Weapons + Base Augments / Base Weapons + Celestial Augments are good

[graceful sedge]

then your argument is wrong

[storm topaz]

I disagree

[compact reef]

i agree

¯_(ツ)_/¯

expanding your view might help

but as a note for next time, definitly don't start it with ''delete this entirely''

[graceful sedge]

it just makes nobody take the argument seriously

[compact reef]

even if this went through NF would have one hell of a time making something that'll find out who had how many celestial weapons and how many tower shards they've spent on them so far

[storm topaz]

Yall are getting hung up on the wrong thing.

The purpose of this thread is not to discuss why Celestials are good or bad. Its to suggest a different approach that I havent seen discussed and provide my thinking as to why this would be a good alternative.

[graceful sedge]

we gotten hang up on your: "My radical suggestion for fixing Celestial Weapons/Adornments is this: Delete the weapons entirely" statement

having non celestial weapons that have the ability to slot in celestial augments could be a much different argument

balance changes are coming for augments making other weapons more attractive

[spiral sun]

Lol. You guys are literally talking about a single word: delete. At least hear the rest out. Of course delete is extreme. But understanding why doesn’t mean I’ll agree with the “delete” part.

[storm topaz]

Thank you

[spiral sun]

I do think that they should be given a more specific role. Every celestial weapon is the same rarity. There’s no grind for it other than buying it once.

If they were broken to ornate….👀 oh god

That’s a different option. Augments on regular weapons are another option. Or maybe even a scaled down version of augments, but for regular weapons with no restrictions on #

I was raiding A Morri this last 2 weeks, all along thinking: “why am I doing this? I already have one. I won’t need the second one because I have a celestial staff.”

[subtle badger]

I like being able to discuss alternative options for celestial weapons and augments because I agree with your sentiment that these have largely made the weapons and adornments we have grinded for for the last few years somewhat obsolete.

Mobile's point about rarity is also well taken because the shard grind from towers is linear and not even that long compared to the 3 years, 1000+ a.morris I've hit in the kingdom plus the thousands of scrolls used and still don't have good AF weapons.

[graceful sedge]

dual wielding is still a thing. but yea, just having a bunch of stats on a weapon makes it hard to compete with celestials, which is why i advocate for more unique effects on them

Think a bow that has a chance to make you hit a second target on single target attacks
A staff providing a skill

competing with 30% crit chance and a bunch of crit dmg will be hard

doing more or less stats per weapon increases more and more powercreep, going horizontal with a balance approach would be nicer

[storm topaz]

Delete Celestial Weapons entirely and let us use Augments 1per god on normal weapons

[compact reef]

Seeing as it's something you have to buy with a currency you potentially spend hours grinding for -> hard pass
I dislike the RNG of getting a good weapon in the game already, ornate or trash sucks, and then when you get an ornate there's a good chance it's not a good ornate?
Celestial weapons can be looked at like they have their own quality, with the unique background color and all

[spiral sun]

😐you don’t like the grind?

[shut sedge]

orna's all about grinding. that's part of the fun

RNG makes it so u dont finish the game in a week

[compact reef]

That's not exactly what I aimed to imply with the statement

What I tried to say is, gear should be considered usable without needing to be a high % ornate, which it sort of is before you start hitting the t9/10 walls.
Now I'm not saying a low famed should be as good as a 190% ornate, but currently people consider anything below 180% trash unless it's something like a bulwark, fyc or alike.
I've been thought that I should event upgrade a Morrigan weapon unless its arisen fey and 185%+ simply because "Cort is too rare" (which is a separate issue entirely), and I'd like if that wasn't the case.
But since the game is so deep in, that saying "knee deep" is an immense understatement, it's just a rant

[dawn island]

I very much understand JFs angle on celestials removing the drive and reason for having a lot of the historically "good" weapons. Celestials have their own set of restrictions only being able to use the augments and not normal adornments. Another thought - what about allowing unlimited augments on base weapons at a larger adornment ratio? Say an augment takes up 3 or 4 normal slots instead of 1?

[neon sand]

celes weaps are not the problem, it's the augments

i wanna know if there are people that will use celes axe if we're gonna allow gilga axe to take in augments without restrictions

[storm topaz]

For Celestials, delete the Weapons and let us use Augments 1per god on base weapons

[compact reef]

Stop changing the name bru-

[graceful sedge]

that title is just clickbait anyways

[storm topaz]

Agreed, but if we take Augments away from Celestial weapons and move them to base weapons, then they’re not the problem anymore. Atleast from the perspective of narrowing game design space.

[compact reef]

If you leave the celestial weapons in the game and allow all weapons to utilize augments then celestial weapons will become obsolete for anyone with a good arisen fey weapon or similar

[storm topaz]

I dont want to leave celestial weapons in the game. They’re a milquetoast cycle

[neon sand]

between the current celes weap system and the 1 per god on base weaps, sorry but i'm picking the 1st one

unless you don't mind both existing

[storm topaz]

I dont mind both existing, though Im curious why you feel that way

[neon sand]

if the augments i want is in the same god, i want to have the choice of being able to combine any augment combo that i want

i'm a pro choice person, so i don't mind other people having the 1 per god augment option on base weap too

[storm topaz]

Thats fair, I think that could be a good way to balance them but I get the perspective

Sounds good to me tho

[neon sand]

1 copy of each god augment though (like having all prome but only 1 of each part), that one i'm probably going to be fine i think

i'm sure we're still going to get new tower/shard related items in the future, and the current available ones aren't going to be the only things we'll be able to play with

[compact reef]

Only 1 of each part at a time? You'd need to reverse the current nerfs on that case, if not provide buffs even

[inland obsidian]

the weapon itself is worse than almost all T10 weapons, their nearest equivalent are questing weapons, is the augments that make them so powerfull, making them available for normal weapons, even if only 1 per weapon, would make celestial ones useless

[compact reef]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-thats-what-i-said-jerry-seinfeld-30rock-thats-what-i-told-you-i-told-you-that-already-gif-19231773

[radiant robin]

Iirc, I've pitched this before but how about the option to combine the T10 weapon and Celestial one?

Ability to combine would require the following:

• 195%+ and GF on the T10 weapon (would make Pristine gears have more use rather than just bragging rights and validates all the time spent for farming)
• Max leveled, same type weapon for the Celestial (T10 2H Axe/Hammer needs Celestial 2H Axe/Hammer)
• A crap ton of gold, orns, skyshards, and mats.

And entails the following:

• Both weapons' stats undergo dual-wield calculations
• Augments are placed a layer below the T10's slots, enabling access to both weapons' adorns' prowess

[compact reef]

Combining is an excellent idea. Not as much combining than I'd like it to be "Infusing the weapon with the essence of the stars"

[shut sedge]

i like this idea. make non celestial weapons worth someeeething

suggest this, ill upvote it

[inland obsidian]

and then you find some crazyness like CAFMP with 2080 magic, 26% crit rate, 61% crit damage and 8 slots 1-handed weapon...

i like the idea, but the implementation, not so much, it would break the game completely

[hallow shale]

I personally like having the augments be available for regular weapons but limited in how you can adorn them. Personally I would make it so celestial adorns take up 2 slots and you cannot have more then 1 of the same type per weapon.

Also I'd love more creativity in the adorns, with special effects beyond stats. Stuff that isn't available from other adorns and is powerful enough to justify the extra slots.

Honestly you probably wouldn't need to delete the celestial weapons if you did that change. Celestial weapons could remain how they are and allowing the adorns to be used in a limited fashion on regular weapons would address this imbalance.

[violet isle]

I don't think there should be any change to celestial weapons. Augments can/should be updated for balance, yes. However, I don't like the idea of putting even one augment slot on normal weapons. It becomes a big, big form of power creep that spreads everywhere in T9-10.

Right now, there's at least some hope of balancing augments because they are confined to celestial weapons.