Valhallan Changes

[ivory birch]

any big Tower winners?

[wicked sandal]

I wonder if it still has that petrify chance

[polar locust]

With boots is enough?

In beo base

[wicked sandal]

Medusa assassin would be funny

In towers

[polar locust]

Or should also equip a head AI?

[wicked sandal]

Id recommend getting auriga, cause using other pieces is giving up orn/exp gains

[polar locust]

Still far to get enough shards for a class

I have only 3k max 😂😂

Don't do towers frequently

[ivory birch]

yes

I have no idea why using skadi breaks it, this is unpleasant lol

[polar locust]

Yeah

No call is better

[ivory birch]

call makes medusa completely unusable 😅

[rough lotus]

That is horrible because Fenrir is not a crit pet... Also dragon damage that was in Chimeras but not in Fenrir... Less variety ... And it's bad because Fenrir was just physical

That will make me instantly stop using him for example.

[last bane]

Other Pet BB skills too, or just for Medusa?

[rough lotus]

Also removing quad cut from Fenrir 🤮

[ivory birch]

no idea, only been using medusa

[last bane]

Guess we should check it before release

[sick tinsel]

Odie, stop.

I like the majority of changes, but we are tweaking Bestial Bonds, not Followers

Fenrir has this identity to be a physical elementless, being interesting for Affinities

Very useful in Tower because of its heal and being able to exploit Titans weaknesses

[last bane]

still best pet. ever.

[ivory birch]

I don't know if that's serious or not lol

[rough lotus]

Thank you.

[sick tinsel]

Beaststrikes is out of place, no Fenrir is not a critical user, and I don't appreciate having one of its best skill replaced by a Dragon element skill.
Especially with Nidhogg and Beowulf being endrunner in this content

[rough lotus]

That should be pinned imo

[sick tinsel]

I know Odie is doing his best with a lot of effort and stress, and I support that
That's why when it's a big no no change, someone has to tell him, it's my way to support

There is no need to rush changes at the last seconds to have better Bestial Bonds, Valhallan Classes already have significant buffs through Base stats, Valhallan Dissonance, Native Pet IA.

Early Bestial Bonds is an extra bonus that will be completed during the month

[umbral glade]

beaststrikes does so much more damage than quadcut

and it still have a bunch of physical moves, the improved AI will pick the not resisted/immune move

[ivory birch]

shoulda given it hexacut

[umbral glade]

isnt that like super bad

[ivory birch]

not that it's much of an improvement

lol

yeah it's awful

but it's the successor to quadcut

[umbral glade]

beaststrikes also casually has 15% base crit

[sick tinsel]

Give Realmstrikes then

still physical and elementless

If you are down bad for a crit Fenrir, give it more skill that can crit

else it's just a sub Fjalar with higher rarity

[umbral glade]

2 out of 4 is the same ratio than fjalar

[sick tinsel]

I don't consider Basic Attack as criticable skill

[umbral glade]

neither do i

and i didnt count it

fjalar has bonded strike and aerial barrage

fenrir has bonded strike and beaststrikes

fjalar has t.crit+ while fenrir self heals you to full hp every 4th turn

[sick tinsel]

Well if we replace Beaststrike by Realm Strikes, I can consider Fenrir more interesting

You can have Crit in Tower

[umbral glade]

yea and if we replace TMMs spells with fey glaciar instead of fey frost

it also becomes beter

but lets be honest, it doesnt need it

[sick tinsel]

But still Basic Attack or Bonded Ability, I don't like it to justify a monster can make a good use of Crit Bond because it have at least ONE skill/spell that can crit

[sick tinsel]

Then keep Quadcut II.
Beaststrikes is bad for Tower

[umbral glade]

what

quadcut is a bad dmg move

beaststrikes is much better

[ivory birch]

Fenrir in towers sounds painful

[umbral glade]

also you dont consider fjalar a good crit pet because it only has 1 spell?

[umbral glade]

fenrir is easily my favorite tower pet atm

[sick tinsel]

Best pet if you don't have Pheonix as Beo

[ivory birch]

word

[umbral glade]

well on beoH i wouldnt use it

but its super lazy and quite strong for base/beoA

[sick tinsel]

If it doesn't spam Quadcut and Evasive Strikes, yeah it's decent

[umbral glade]

so the same as fenrir?

[sick tinsel]

At least you can redline unlike Fenrir

[umbral glade]

yes fenrirs niche is self healing

i'd even argue that giving fenrir another self healing skill that can crit would be one of the few options i'd rather have then beaststrikes

[sick tinsel]

Not against that if it's elementless

[gentle wolf]

Maybe in the future there will be another sidegrade Beo class that will focus on keeping HP 100%

But for now, it's divided.

[sick tinsel]

#BeowulfHydrus

[umbral glade]

not ever pet needs to be a redline pet

if you want to be redlining dont use the self healing pet

[sick tinsel]

Well only damage follower need Redline to inflict even more damage

Fenrir is a surviving pet

Low hp means more sustain

[gentle wolf]

Well I meant actually getting a buff for maintaining health. 😉

[sick tinsel]

Gilgawulf is real ?

[umbral glade]

besides your personal bias, is there something wrong with a crit pet that sustains your player hp?

having that available as an option is a good thing

[sick tinsel]

I have absolutely no problem with that, but keep every skills elementless, so I can still use Affinities efficiently !

I don't like Beaststrikes just because it is Dragon Element

[umbral glade]

beaststrikes will deal more dmg than a affinity quadcut lmao

[sick tinsel]

But knowing the hybrid stats of Fenrir he sure deals a lot of damage

But against Nidhoggs or Fallen Beo in Towers, no matter how strong is Beaststrikes it will do 0

[last bane]

But Fenrir still have Bonded Strikes?

[umbral glade]

my dude

[gentle wolf]

I think there's also a shock factor in play; Fenrir has been a certain way forever, and his moveset got altered for a new feature.

I think it's an interesting change, and I don't think Odie would just change it on a whim.

[umbral glade]

pet ai

will not make the pet use immune moves

it will even make it less likely to use the resistant moves

it will NEVER use beaststrikes against nodhogg

it WILL however use beaststrikes against something like mimics and gazers

you are asking for a fire pokemon with 4 fire moves

instead of giving it a lightning move to beat water enemies

[sick tinsel]

Mmh, forgot that, but I still reluctant somehow, does IA will spam Osmostrikes II / Omnistrikes II under Affinity to exploit a Titan's weakness ?

[umbral glade]

likely

but at that point you are using fenrir at a tower boss

restarting the game to grab a lindworm and using affinity on that

[sick tinsel]

Well can't change pet during Tower yet

[umbral glade]

will save you 1,5 minutes

[sick tinsel]

Especially if you're in an expired Tower

it happens often

[umbral glade]

i dont think that ever happened to me

you had 23 hours to prevent that

[sick tinsel]

Well, I have like 5 Towers to do in 23 hours

And I have to do my life within the same time

Like eat, sleep, work, etc ...

[umbral glade]

you could save 10 minutes of that by using pet swaps

clear all 5 towers until mid wave boss

restart

kill them all with lindworm

swap to fenrir, clear all towers to titan

repeat

but yea

[sick tinsel]

Meh, Towers are like Dungeons, it's not a very difficult content, but long and repetitive

[umbral glade]

"i have to clear 5 towers daily within 23 hours so i cant swap pets thats why getting a better move on fenrir is bad"
sounds like a you problem

[sick tinsel]

It exhausts me mentally

[umbral glade]

its a buff for everybody else

[polar locust]

Be like me, don't do them frequently

1 a month is enough

[sick tinsel]

Lel

[polar locust]

😂

[blazing hull]

why would you even need 5 towers a day ?

[umbral glade]

and why would getting a stronger damage move be bad for your main clearing pet

skip one tower on your main and do one on the beta today

even if the titans are a bit slower, which i dont think they will be, having freaking beaststrikes over quadcut for the actual floors will save you so much time

the amount of mobs beaststrikes/bonded strikes will 1 shot that quadcut couldnt

is immense

and thats not even counting all the other buffs, like, you know, the 24% bonded atk fenrir will have

or the ai improvements that pets actually focus down low hp mobs

or the better ai move selection

[blazing hull]

isn't fenrir more of a buffing/debuffing pet ?

[umbral glade]

well it has 1 buff and 1 move that can debuff

the debuff move is a dmg move thou

[wicked sandal]

one perm buff hardly makes something a buffing pet

and the debuff move is a decent enough dmg move

[umbral glade]

it is the "self healing pet" for me

[wicked sandal]

as far as beo usage goes, it's the consistent physical attacker with selfheal

[umbral glade]

not many pets, besides the holy light / sacrestrike users, provide constant self heal

[blazing hull]

that sound like a good utility pet, giving it the ability to one shot mobs would be a little too much imo

[umbral glade]

i think "one shotting mobs" is just the world we live in now

ever since the meta became 25x sweep boss dungeons

this is just the norm

[wicked sandal]

mostly everyone else does that (often times more than one at once), I don't see why a geared beo shouldn't be allowed to do that

unless you want to cut back on player power in general

[blazing hull]

I'm not saying otherwise, just not with an utility pet is my point

[umbral glade]

yea its either us getting to that level of power or everybody else going lower

and its much easier to say "hey community beo can now also do that" than saying "hey community everybody does half dmg now, besides beo they stay the same"

i would not consider fenrir a utility pet for the most part

[wicked sandal]

Well it's on the lower end as far as utility goes, healing is nice but every selfdmg class gets healign for a single weapon adorn

[umbral glade]

its a damage pet that brings some utility

[wicked sandal]

some don't even need one

[blazing hull]

but don't you have some harder hitting pets ?

[umbral glade]

yea HP for non redline classes is binary, at this point, you are either dead or full hp due to ashen rubies

the fenrir tower setup started for me due to how lazy it is

no need to buff atk

fenrir uses atk++

you get atk+ from chests

you dont need to worry about divine bastion or hp sustain

osmosstrikes covers your hp

[wicked sandal]

real laziness is spamming av2/v4

[umbral glade]

well yea

i still refuse to unlock beoH

[blazing hull]

v4 is multi target ?

[umbral glade]

and i dont even have omnimancer unlocked

av2 is

v4 is pure st

[wicked sandal]

No, but av2 won't do enough dmg on some encounters like high floor fallen deity

it's to take out larger enemies

[blazing hull]

i play hybrid deity and i still didn't bought any celestial class, you were this close to sell me the beoH

[umbral glade]

verse 4 dmg is immense

[summer gulch]

1 more day

[wicked sandal]

v4 weak, give it unsplit aoe

[summer gulch]

Or it's this rollover

Either way I really hope the summoner pvp is better cus my aoe splitting has been suffering

[blazing hull]

I already hit for a million with free requiem3 on crowsong, I might give a try to verse4 at some point

[umbral glade]

as much as i look forward to get this on live tmrw

i am even more excited to see the next patch

give this mechanic another month with data driven feedback

[blazing hull]

all the new beo stuff is good, but guilds sounds like banger

for me only real downside of this new bond thing is that bond1 are really not enough to make one switch to tamer. So it will remain a beo exclusive and the mechanic is so cool I'd like to see it on other classes.

[umbral glade]

just thinking about the next big event and the pets that could come with it now that the design space for what a pet can be is wide open makes me excited

[gentle wolf]

I need to stop slacking and get my HoA character into T10

[umbral glade]

tamer is a bit in a weird spot yea

for beo(A) it feels almost necessary and for other classes it gets outclassed / made redundant by some adornments

[blazing hull]

maybe if tamer makes you somewhat of a valhallan class it could be better (give access to valhallan stuff + calls actually working)

in fact, that would be good for specs like benefactor and cataphract also, making you able to summon, or allowed to use SS skills

make it a deity exclusive passive and now we're real jack of all trade

[umbral glade]

honestly, i usually hate the "just delete it" argument, but beastmaster/tamer is in such a weird spot that i could see it not existing as a positive, if the base stats are transferred to valhallans

i set it and forget it stat boost with no skills i consider useable is just so meh

[rough lotus]

I feel like Fenrir will die soon. Rip it was good while it lasted. But it is a lost cause. Time to find a new pet and never use Fenrir again.

[blazing hull]

yes some specs just feels like mandatory part of your class and not really a but specialization

[umbral glade]

lmao what a overreaction

that sounds like a clickbait youtube title

[rough lotus]

Not over reaction just what will indeed happen.

[umbral glade]

"oh no my pet got a move that deals twice as much damage as the old one, how will i ever recover from this"

[rough lotus]

People overtuned Fjalar and forgot other pets or made them even worse.

[polar locust]

Lindworm gained some light

Can see the world again from bunker

[rough lotus]

The only pet that should be nerfed is Ashen Phoenix and even then not for Beo

[last bane]

Put DC into 3rd BB? :)

[umbral glade]

fenrirs base kit can be a bit stronger than others, it makes it unviable to use out redline passive

[polar locust]

[rough lotus]

You are trying to ridicule arguments and diverge them from truth. The issue was not the damage in this case.

[summer gulch]

Bonds are cool yea, but them vd changes too 👀

[umbral glade]

what is your argument then exactly

"fenrir will die because it got beasttrikes instead of quadcut"

is not something i understand

i think

[summer gulch]

Maybe my orn build will do enough dmg to mimics finally

[blazing hull]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-do-it-gif-10270118

[rough lotus]

The same as @sick tinsel . Fenrir is not a crit pet. It never had crit skills. It should be kept that way while being a physical only pet. The damage can be tuned with the bonds.

[umbral glade]

it is now

[rough lotus]

If you want to change a pet to crit then change chuthlu into crit.

[umbral glade]

i highly recommend getting used to it

[rough lotus]

It is useless to argue with you.

[wicked sandal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/448527960056791051/1097570738086621295/1101914410487914658

[umbral glade]

you dont have a real argument to argument with

"it was not a crit pet" is not an argument, it got changed, many things got changed

we dont have beastial bonds on live either, that will also change

[rough lotus]

You saying I don't have an argument when I just said just validates that it is no use arguing with you.

[umbral glade]

yes thats what i am saying

[blazing hull]

beos : player crit is too strong, pet can't compete
nf : add some crit to a strong pet
beos : noooo you killed my pet !

[umbral glade]

you are against change for the fact that its a change?

[rough lotus]

By that logic all pets could have random bonds and abilities and if fjalar was now magical and giving ward every turn you would be fine with it because "deal with the changes"

[umbral glade]

yes

if that is what NF wants to do

that can happen

[rough lotus]

Lmao ok

[umbral glade]

we wanted more pets to be viable

fenrir got a big dmg booszt

i see this as a positive

[blazing hull]

problem is bonds can't be pet specific because too much work, so yes some pets will have less usefull bonds

[rough lotus]

Fenrir is less viable when it deals dragon damage than just physical damage. It may do more damage now due the new changes, but quad cut would deal more than beast because beast is hybrid.

[umbral glade]

why?

smart AI does not use dragon skills into immune and will avoid them into resistant enemies

[rough lotus]

We wanted more variety now we have a bunch of crit clones and non crit Cthulhu.

[summer gulch]

Explain? I stopped using fen back when bc it was a self heal pet, but tbh it's not that bad in hoard boss. Hits surprisingly hard without redline

Last time I used it

Like 2 weeks ago<

[last bane]

can't find lvl2 bound at my BeoH, an i guess Tames spec must rise total Bond to lvl 3

[umbral glade]

it got beaststrikes instead of quadcut

[blazing hull]

if you get dragon affinity from book or tethra, would smart ai make fenrir spam beaststrikes (with boosted damages) ?

[umbral glade]

which does a whole bunch of dmg

and it got a better atk bond

it can also crit now and has a crit bond

so all that means damage is 📈
yes it keeps you out of redline, but its niche is hp sustain while doing dps

[stoic epoch]

Oooooh

So Medusa got good!

[blazing hull]

holly shit, beoH have bond 2 back ? that's huge

[summer gulch]

I'm debating going to beoH instead of getting gilga or realm for wob3 or quadedge4 now then

[last bane]

But Tamer must rise up total BB's to 3

[gentle wolf]

I mean you can use Bloodshift and redline with Fenrir, however the second that it drops there's a high chance your back to full HP lol

[umbral glade]

you really cant

since it goes

player actions -> bloodshift can fall of here -> pet action

[gentle wolf]

You might redline for like 5 turns lol

[blazing hull]

back to the good old "make bloodshift a toggle"

[umbral glade]

so you click, idk bastion, with bloodshift up, then bloodshift falls off randomly and then fenrir uses osmosstrikes

and you heal for 10k

its 100% unreliable

well, 90% unreliable

[blazing hull]

back to my previous question, wouldn't dragon affinity make fenrir spam beaststrikes ?

[gentle wolf]

The toggle skills seem to end up as stances, so you might be giving up Snotra/ Gunnr

[summer gulch]

I forget about bloodshift everything lmao ty for this

[umbral glade]

idk, i dont think i have a affinity book on beta to test this either

[summer gulch]

But yea rng might bonk you

As shift could fall off

[wicked sandal]

I doubt it, but I could test this

[blazing hull]

why ? can't you can stack Gunnr and Gymir?

[umbral glade]

lmao that guy i disagreed with is going through everything i post and reacting with emotes

[gentle wolf]

I might be outdated, they separated them?

[blazing hull]

pretty sure I saw someone posting a screen with both of them not too long ago, i'll check

[blazing hull]

that was faster than I thought
#🏆│triumph-and-tragedy message

[gentle wolf]

Hmm ok. I'll have to check the other ones

[blazing hull]

he obtained it with trickery tho, i don't know if it's doable solo

[rough lotus]

What are emotes for?

[blazing hull]

can't check in tower but it's pretty fast to test

[blazing hull]

mimics

[umbral glade]

you out here downvoting like its reddit

[rough lotus]

Cthulu shouldn't be a mimic

[rough lotus]

Only when there is poo poo opinion

[gentle wolf]

I think it should be an Ancient, but that may overload the skillset

[wicked sandal]

Ok so actual argument against beaststrikes on fenrir: Fenrir has awful hybrid offensive stats (good attack but really poor magic), so his damage with hybrid skills is actually quite bad

[umbral glade]

you still didnt explain your argument how fenrir will die now that it has a better move

[last bane]

Just remember Prey

[rough lotus]

Yes but people see damage increase and will blindly void everything else...

[wicked sandal]

They would understand your argument if you actually typed it out instead of saying shit like 'Fenrir is dead'

[rough lotus]

I am sure there was a way bigger sentence than that and not just by me. Plus I kinda felt time wasted when people are just trolling on purpose.

At end of day if the pet is not good I just pick another.

[umbral glade]

most of the early arguments was "it will use beaststrike into things like nidhogg" which was just wrong, as smart ai prevents that

[blazing hull]

actually, I didn't even understood until inarin explained it (was thinking of blightstrikes instead of beaststrikes)

[rough lotus]

But if all you get is that fun pun then sure let us waste time in what is not useful and void everything. I gave up to be honest.

[umbral glade]

beaststrikes, even with fenrirs non great hybrid scaling, still does more damage than quadcut

it has 15% base crit as well

[wicked sandal]

It doesn't

unless it crits

maybe

[blazing hull]

tht's a lot of speculation for a game we've access to the beta

why not test is for real, then compare to current one

[wicked sandal]

it's not speculation, I literally have beta open right now cause someone asked about dragon alignment > beaststrikes spam

and no alignment won't make him use it more

[blazing hull]

that was me asking, and ty for the answer

+that's a shame

isn't there a crit threshold where beaststrikes becomes better ?

with crit bond you maybe could get to 100%

[wicked sandal]

beaststrikes with alignment up was doing similar dmg to osmo/omni 2 on noncrit, double on crits

without alignment it would be about 33% weaker on noncrits

[umbral glade]

remember that we are comparing it to quadcut here

[wicked sandal]

quadcut 2 actually deals similar/more dmg to omni/osmo 2

[blazing hull]

that sounds like more overall damage to me

especially if you can push to 100%

[gentle wolf]

I'm in a weird spot because it was my suggestion for crit on Fen because I didn't understand how skills without base crit works... And then Odie actually changed it, and then went as far to alter the moveset...

[wicked sandal]

quadcut 2: m2 0.5-1.3 x4, osmo/omni 2: 0.75-1.25 x3

[umbral glade]

it also has a coverage move to hit through phys immunity and to exploit dragon weaknesses

[rough lotus]

You did the right intention because before it was Dex which was even worse. Crit was just the same copy paste as fjalar on a non crit pet Fenrir. It should have been pure attack.

[umbral glade]

bonded strike crits for like 400-500k on 100% hp

beaststrike does slightly lower dmg than osmos/omni on a non crit, as expected, but is the second best move after bonded strike on a crit

so, as far as dmg goes, its like bonded strike crit > beastialstrikes crit > osmos/omni > bonded strike non crit > beastial strikes non crit

With a single crit up (tower chest / wyrm song) beastialstrikes is already at 40% crit chance, that is not counting any temp crit or bonded crit stats

[blazing hull]

if you have 60% crit, bonded crit will give 24%

[umbral glade]

using base beo with a 40% prom hand celestial would give 17.6% additional crit chance to it

[blazing hull]

wouldn't realmspikes be an option too ?

[umbral glade]

yea but then you are using realmspikes

i'd much rather use a prom hand celestial if you are doing player dmg + pet damage base beo

[blazing hull]

evasive strikes is another option

[umbral glade]

if you gear for 100% crit chance on your player

most beastialstrikes will crit

[blazing hull]

looks promising, only problem I see with such pet crit is that prometheus hands and amity don't work

[umbral glade]

and if its deemed to weak after the main game data comes in, increasing fenrirs magic stat a bit would fix it

[polar locust]

Imagine double oracle with 40% crit if it affected crit pets

[blazing hull]

on auriga so fenrir proceed to crit twice in a row

[green jacinth]

amities does not affect our pets?

[polar locust]

No

Atleast the crit ones no

[umbral glade]

no but yes

[polar locust]

Other may affect

[umbral glade]

the increased elemental damage should after the patch

[green jacinth]

ty for the info

[blazing hull]

20% dragon damage go brrrr

[umbral glade]

bulwark with oracle and double dragon damage + pet stat amnity with nidhogg

with pet stat celestial lute and a hybrid afey crowsong

throw in some ornate jewel of creations

[blazing hull]

shit is about to go real

[last bane]

why not Fey Chimera?

[umbral glade]

dragons bond

wyrmseal hits very hard

[last bane]

ah, okay

[umbral glade]

dragons have mag+atk hybrid bonds

chimera has atk+dex

[polar locust]

Please testt

[umbral glade]

i dont have such amnities :(

[polar locust]

Me neither

[umbral glade]

that sounds pretty fun thou

[blazing hull]

why nidhogg over bashe ?

[umbral glade]

the main reason being that i forgot bashe is a thing

[polar locust]

Bashe hits dragon?

[blazing hull]

it has drain tho, so redline harder

bashe hit dragon and has dragon blight

[polar locust]

That's cool

[blazing hull]

and a very good rate at dragon blight at that, 15%

same as spells

and with how i understand smart AI, dragonblight may prevent him from spamming drain

[umbral glade]

13292 atk and 10870 magic on banshe
9393 atk & mag on nidhogg

[wicked sandal]

if you can get bashe to blight>beaststrike consistently then it should be better than nidhogg

[umbral glade]

in menu, with my tower gear

[wicked sandal]

only having a single offensive skill might be rough on action rate though

[blazing hull]

lusus naturae 2 isn't dragon ?

[wicked sandal]

if you gunnr

[gentle wolf]

Could you force bashe to focus beaststrike with Gunnr?

[wicked sandal]

and if you snotra there's drain which will deal pitiful dmg in comparison

[gentle wolf]

Lol

[wicked sandal]

on a dragon dmg stacked setup like that

it's worth testing though, then I know if I should pick up bashe next august

[umbral glade]

the most important thing about all of this is:

we actually have OPTIONS like these now

which is so nice

[blazing hull]

i think it's worth the try, especially on base beo where you can also take advantage of the blight

IMO Beo has the most variety of builds now. It only lacked in power but the gameplay is cool. Now if it can also get some power, it may become the best feeling class of the game.

[polar locust]

Can you test it in beta if you have the amities and stuff?

[wicked sandal]

I do not

[polar locust]

I'm curious for the dmg

[umbral glade]

i mean, just dragon dmg amnities are a good first step

the additional pet stat just means we have some chase rolls now for damage

[wicked sandal]

the amity always worked afaik, just gear didn't

[umbral glade]

instead of only having defence/utility chase things

yea but you ran into the scaling being lacking

the atk+magic bonds on dragons are so nice

if you go beaststrike base Beo with dragonblight and the pet also does the same

its looking kinda spicy

oh right the dragon++ sword is also a thing now

[blazing hull]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-press-la-noire-gif-18717264

[umbral glade]

i got a legendary iirc

is that a temp buff or a permanent one?

there is a 30% dragon dmg amnity in the OL spreadsheet coming up in 8min

its legendary has already been discovered as 5% earth dragon

the dragon dmg + pet stat dream is dead

[polar locust]

Imagine

[tulip tundra]

Temp buff

Same as aglovale

[umbral glade]

i c

[wicked sandal]

bashe seems to like using lusus naturae despite gunnr being up, possibly cause of the other smart ai effect of using matching elements to applied blights taking priority?

idk

it doesn't play very well with gaits

drain is also a full heal

which can be less than ideal depending on the content

[umbral glade]

i wish we had a good holy dmg pet

[blazing hull]

bashe was so close to be a good boy

[umbral glade]

the celestial augment for it would be sweet

i am still not the biggest enjoyer of blights/sigils

they feel so inconsistent

they payoff can be great so i guess thats fine

[blazing hull]

imagine a bashe doing his thing while you're casting ultima

[sage umbra]

I find that beast strike happens more often

[umbral glade]

the problem is it just deals no dmg with the bad move and the healing on drain is also kinda bad, so his peak potential is higher but his floor is lower

having a 33% chance for it to fizzle out makes it really unattractive for endless as an example

[blazing hull]

would be so bad without the drain

the diff between redline and no redline is huge

[hearty aurora]

Does anyone know what the 'Arch-Alchemy +100' Titan followers give as their first Bestial Bond does?

[gentle wolf]

It gives world mobs a chance to drop random materials

[last bane]

what if there would be Titan-pet & 2 amities with Arch-Alchemy...

[hearty aurora]

Ah, got it, thank you

[misty acorn]

Are the bb2 Hydrus bonds working?

Just checking, sorry if this has already been mentioned

In follower menu it's only showing level 1

[last bane]

at buff panel only 1 BB too
even through Tamer

[misty acorn]

Right, cool so not working yet, ty

Im excited about this!

[umbral glade]

stuff like defense bond also doesnt show up on the status screen anymore

[misty acorn]

Oop you're right!

But the bond level 2 not showing in buffs might be a thing?

[umbral glade]

going from a dragon pet (0% def bond) to a o.golem (2x 9% def bond) gives no chance in my def value on the player status screen

[misty acorn]

Kk cool ty

I should just look at the buff list and wait til level 2 appears

[umbral glade]

i wasnt responding to you, i was stating a different thing i noticed

i havent checked level 2 bond thingy

so idk about that

[misty acorn]

So base shows the bestial bond 1 2 3, Hydrus still only has 1 for now

Has the passive only

Whereas base has this

I shall wait patiently 💓

[umbral glade]

I hope one day this screen will show us the numbers it actually provides.
Like

Bonded Ward (145% of your followers ward [+1337] is added to your own ward)

with the +number being green like it shows in the player stat screen now

[misty acorn]

That would be really helpful

[umbral glade]

Or maybe:

Bonded Ward (+1337) ?
and the ? tooltip shows "145% of your followers ward is added to your own ward"

that might be less information overload due to being less text

[misty acorn]

That's also a good idea

[umbral glade]

would make it much more easy to compare bonds and base pets at a glance value

and also see the different payoffs from item sets with bonded atk/mag

man i wish i wasnt so hardstuck at work the last 2-3 weeks so i coulda came up with stuff like that earlier and not a day before the planned release

[umbral glade]

this is what i hope the screen will look like in the future

excuse my rusty image editing skills

[summer gulch]

1337!

Leet increase B)

[umbral glade]

you cant edit something like that and not go for the funny numbers

wanted to do 42069 ward increase but that would be unrealistic !

[summer gulch]

I'm surprised anyone knows about 1337 still

[misty acorn]

Haha I played counterstrike since hl1 mod days and Ive been saying 1337 ever since lol. I like that idea, editing skills perfectly fine

[umbral glade]

this looks much cleaner i would say

without tooting my own horn

[misty acorn]

Yes, it's easier to digest

[umbral glade]

there is also a change on the skill list

which i would love to see

[misty acorn]

Oh I didn't even notice that

That's also good

[umbral glade]

oh i forgot, i wanted to replace the ward skill icon to a stick man throwing a rock

[misty acorn]

Haha

[summer gulch]

2 more hours

Less patch is at midnight

[misty acorn]

Oh snap today is the day

[umbral glade]

there is a maintance announcement on the live game

that would likely be the time

[gentle wolf]

Wait I thought it was 31st

[umbral glade]

well its the 31st in 40 minutes in europe

[misty acorn]

Time zones haha, it's 31st here in NZ. 9.21am

[umbral glade]

they are in canada, so a few more hours

[summer gulch]

Ah also will be l8r and not at rollover

That's okay, I'm hype

[umbral glade]

so 17,5 hours

[misty acorn]

Yup I had to Google it lol

[umbral glade]

timezones man

[misty acorn]

Its 3am my time

[umbral glade]

that shit is so annoying

[misty acorn]

Yeah I'm not good at converting them at all

[gentle wolf]

4pm here

[umbral glade]

i just google "15:00 UTC in local time"

[gentle wolf]

10am tomorrow for me

[misty acorn]

I did that and it says 3am Wednesday which has already been 😂

[umbral glade]

well at least you know the time, just gonna fix the day

[misty acorn]

Haha yup, pretty exciting for the beo bros

[umbral glade]

i said before

i am really happy for this patch

but it makes me even more excited for the future patches

with how flavourful thís mechanic can get

and how a new bond could make a mediocre at best pet suddenly super good

or how a pet could just say "the player now scales with dex instead of atk" or add something like steadfast

there is legit no limit to this

[misty acorn]

It took a bit of tweaking but for the first time beo might not actually be the weakest 🙂 we shall see!

I'm grateful for all the effort everyone's put in ❤️

Devs included if that wasn't obvious

[umbral glade]

our pin master is screensharing otherwise i woulda ping him for the UI rework screenshot

that ui update is something i really want to see

[misty acorn]

I haven't checked the beta today but does the status screen sill say
Attack 2,000+1384 with no total? I'm wondering if that will go into live

[umbral glade]

it did have the green numbers and they atm dont update from stuff like going from no bonded def/res to some % of bonded def/res

while they did do that a bit ago

[misty acorn]

Ah yeah it is still there. It might just be a beta thing

[umbral glade]

yea it looks kinda weird, i like the added stats showing but very much, but not seeing totals is weird

[misty acorn]

I can add it roughly in my head quickly but yeah it's not ideal

If it does make it to live, it'll most likely just get brought up and asked to be changed

[umbral glade]

maybe a slider that you can tab to swap between "total stats" and "added by items"

[misty acorn]

We shall see!

[polar cypress]

I think odie said that the change is already on the Dev branch

[misty acorn]

Hydrus only has the level 1 buff icon, just in case this got missed. The patch is almost here 💪

[blazing hull]

did you try without tamer ? maybe the tamer level is overriding the beoh level.

[misty acorn]

Didn't work 😦

So with tamer it has 2 icons

[misty acorn]

Arch armor says +2 ward turns, but when I enter arena it doesn't give me ward turns. beo/tamer

Checked if it's after a turn, just incase

Bond confirmed to work on ortanite golem who has the same ability - gives 2 ward turns to start the fight with

[blazing hull]

with how class the release is, i wouldn't bother too much. start testing after update then list it all.

[misty acorn]

He might check this thread and fix those bugs before release 🙂

[blazing hull]

No, release is today. You don't change much the very day you update.

[misty acorn]

Oh well, we shall find out soon enough lol

[last bane]

in 3 hrs

[misty acorn]

I'm about to go to sleep 😴

[gentle wolf]

Imma be at work like 📱👀

[gentle wolf]

I never should of said that, I think my phone is dying lol

[last bane]

F

[foggy terrace]

So am I correct in seeing that a ton of followers lost Dex as BB1 and it was replaced with 'Accuracy' and BeoH isn't get BB2 like O said? 👀

Guess straight Dex pushing dmg towards top end, and dodge potential was too much? So we just get the accuracy part of Dex...

[last totem]

🤔

[foggy terrace]

Yeah I see that on the class screen. However in actually. All the followers are only giving BB1 I've checked my stat increase as well

@last totem missed reply my bad

[last totem]

Bond from status bar, follower page and dex difference

Your client is up to date?

[foggy terrace]

Just checked, no update available 🧐 perhaps I just have a Beta bug... I'll wait for live later today I suppose 🤷🏼‍♂️

[last totem]

My screens are from live version (HoA)

[foggy terrace]

Oh I'm taking Orna & the Orna Beta. That was where my SS were from.

[last totem]

I dont know if beta got the latest iteration of the patch 🤷

[blazing hull]

I think it's more that giving dex to a class that have very low dex at base didn't help much while it would have been too good on classes like dorado or deity. with this accuracy buff, everyone benefits the same.

[gentle wolf]

The app has to be updated to support the server side changes, so we're not going to see everything immediately.

[gentle wolf]

I fixed it for now lol

[foggy terrace]

Makes sense 🙃

[foggy terrace]

Do we know when the app update will occur? I see BB on my buff list & the stat change now. However since I have to available update to the app. I can't see the BB in follower menus or bestaries yet 👀 lol

No*

[gentle wolf]

I barely saw the HoA client update for Android today.

So it might take time.

[weak chasm]

BTW, spreadsheet from pinned message is very helpful to check new BBs, Thank you

[gentle wolf]

No problem. It "should" be up to date. I need to recheck everything.

[foggy terrace]

Got chu 🤙 appreciate it. I'll just keep an eye out 🙃

[polar locust]

Can we please have Medusa in live the same as it was in Beta? The non-split damage was great, since it was a event mob it's good enough

[gentle wolf]

Looks like Fjalar and Fenrir lost the damage boost for more crit damage

[polar locust]

☹️

[umbral glade]

i miss having a fully stocked bestiary to check bonds

(i still want all pets being available at all times on live, respecting the event rotation)

[gentle wolf]

Don't forget you can check the Codex

[polar locust]

Got nerfed

[rugged glade]

It's a bit surprising to see nerfs non played in beta arriving on live

[umbral glade]

oh damn they lost all of their bonded atk

thats a big rip

[last bane]

No BBs there

[umbral glade]

meh, non bonded atk/mag pets feel so bad

[polar locust]

Yeah, hope it's a mistake for now lol

[gentle wolf]

My bad, can't see them without app update

[polar locust]

And gets fixed by odie

[gentle wolf]

I can only reference from HoA since I got that update

[polar locust]

I got the update yey

[umbral glade]

the removal of bonded atk from the crit pets feels so sad

[last bane]

also no App update yet X)

[rugged glade]

I hope too, but I don't see how it could be the case. As far I guess how they do, they should have push the "test - ok" version from beta to live

[polar locust]

Fjalar doesn't have it now?

[umbral glade]

nah

crit pets only have crit bond

[polar locust]

Bruh

[umbral glade]

0% atk

both fjalar and fenrir lost it completely

[polar locust]

Beta is to make illusions to beos then? 🤡

I don't like that

Btw we have the green numbers from beta in live 🤔

[umbral glade]

i am fully on board with the medusa changes tbh, having non split dmg be limited to medusa pretty much is an issue

but removing the bonded atk stuff is so bad imo

that was the main selling point for the whole gear = benefit thign

[polar locust]

But since is a limited pet it should be fine, since there are event gear, why not skills in event pets that go hard

[umbral glade]

what is even left with bonded atk? dragons?

oh cactus

[rugged glade]

It was a good step to non lock good aoe damage to the same spammed two skills

[umbral glade]

so its cactus for every content now?

besides gazer for world exploration

[gentle wolf]

14% total crit damage now

[umbral glade]

why would i go for a non bonded atk/mag pet EVER

[polar locust]

Im kinda disappointed in them taking out that stuff

And sad

🥲

Because of medusa

[umbral glade]

i just honestly dont understand it

i would even argue that giving every pet a baseline of bonded atk/mag and some pets more on top

would be the way to go

[manic nimbus]

Guess they do make changes on release day

:/

[polar locust]

For worse lol

[manic nimbus]

Yep

[polar locust]

If it was for better i would cry of happiness

[umbral glade]

i went from really happy with the mechanic to really disappointed in its current form in 10 hours

[polar locust]

It wouldn't be op comparing to the power creep of other classes

[last bane]

why there no Boost of Eye's VD bonus at BeoA? at least not 5% but 6%...

[manic nimbus]

Same

[umbral glade]

having only the crit bond means that i have to stack a stat that the pet has 50% chance of using (2 out of 4 attacks) and that then has another rng layer (not 100% crit in many cases) just to see any benefit

[manic nimbus]

As usual, beo "buffs" seem to be chosen very very carefully

[gentle wolf]

Can someone check if the crit damage Amity affects Fjalar?

[stoic epoch]

It never has before

[gentle wolf]

Just a thought

[manic nimbus]

And i do believe odie gave us the options of having amities work on pets or bestial bonds

[rugged glade]

Hu ? Are you sure ?

[manic nimbus]

Yeah never worked

[stoic epoch]

Yeah, 100% sure

[manic nimbus]

Only the ridiculous % pet stats work

[umbral glade]

so if you want bonded atk your options are: cactus and dragon, of which dragons have no real damage pet for it.
There is also chimera, which is annoying due to the DoT + redlining

[rugged glade]

🤔 I'll test it again, because I'm sure it was working for me weeks ago

[umbral glade]

it didnt work yesterday

but that does not mean anything apparently

[stoic epoch]

Aww no, Fjalar lost bonded attack

Seriously, what was the thought process?

[manic nimbus]

Guess I will keep away from auriga and enjoy doing less damage today with my hydrus than yesterday

(thats my feeling on this patch, im afraid)

[regal bramble]

For things like that I avoid creating expectations, what a disappointment

[manic nimbus]

I was careful about expectations and i still got severely disappointed

Damnit yiri

[umbral glade]

its so funny that yesterday everybody was so happy and now its just despair

[stoic epoch]

I was feeling pretty good about the patch, but then this weird last minute changey stuff happened

[umbral glade]

with no way of seeing it coming

[manic nimbus]

I was excited yesterday

Never again

[stoic epoch]

Like, really, why?

[gentle wolf]

This is the first release of a brand new feature, I'm going see how it plays out.

[regal bramble]

At least I had fun in the Beta, back to our reality now

[umbral glade]

lmao, as i said, i understand the medusa thing but the other nerfs are so weird

[rugged glade]

It's a bit confusing. Late nerfs unheard of, only ... 3 ? 4 BB types ? I mean, this topic had some proposals for BB, and unless authors were MP we haven't see feedback or comments on them

[umbral glade]

they were in that state for weeks on the beta

[south sleet]

how's the shadow nerfs?

[umbral glade]

there were changes 2? days ago but these changes werent included

now its live and so much worse than yesterday in parts

i just dont know

at least diablo 4 releases tommorow so i can play that for 2 days before i get bored of it

[hasty knoll]

outside of the stonefire bugfix, the other tweaks should have been up for the last couple days

[polar locust]

Lindworm got buffed by a lot tho

[polar locust]

👀 so the non-split thing was a bug?

Sorry for the ping lol

[hasty knoll]

yes, was not intended

[polar locust]

😭

[umbral glade]

so the bonded atk on the pets was too strong?

compared to what?

[polar locust]

I thought was a new feature

[hasty knoll]

which followers?

[umbral glade]

fenrir, fjalar

[hasty knoll]

right - there was quite a bit of feedback above about follower identity and mixing crit+att.

given how crazy crit gets, would tend to agree with it

[umbral glade]

i can see that, but isnt a 24% --> 0% a bit steep

these things are just not useable anymore if you dont fully gear for crit

and even then, its still 50% chance to even use a move that has a crit payoff

and that will likely still not reach 100% even when fully geared for it (44% of players crit + buffs)

[vivid breach]

Extremely on brand for a beo rework to be a huge disappointment. The extra damage on my cactus is nice I guess. Prom nerf feels really bad

[polar locust]

Prom nerf was expected

[umbral glade]

these pets just went from my favs of the bunch to the "not even in consideration anymore" bunch

[manic nimbus]

I was hoping Hydrus buffs could offset the loss of damage a bit... Not feeling good atm :/

[rugged glade]

Thanks for responding Odie.
Do we know why (again, as far as I know) none of our new BB proposals was kept or even reworked your way ? It could be great to know for some who invested time in. And for a better aim next time 🤔

Edit : sorry, meant the BB types proposals, I'm well aware that other proposals were followed

[hasty knoll]

prom nerf was voted for

there's a lot here. we'll all want to give it more than 2 hours to see where the meta lands - calling it a disappointment already may not do the class justice

[stoic epoch]

Realistically, we can't force the pets to spam their big crit abilities constantlt, so doesn't that even out the crit + att bond combo from a design standpoint?

[umbral glade]

Also "quite a bit of feedback" - i think i have read the entire thread here, and i recall only Fux saying like 3 times that he thinks the bonded atk from crit bond pets should go

[stoic epoch]

I can only remember Fux talking about it

[unreal violet]

Let's not demonize anyone in particular

[stoic epoch]

I'm not demonizing him

I love Fux

But I really can't remember anyone else talking about it

[umbral glade]

his opinion of perfectly valid, i was just questioning the "quite a bit" part, as i cant remember that in here

[hasty knoll]

feel free to make #suggestions now, folks, we're out of beta.

i won't be able to respond to decisions behind all proposals. be know that i've read and considered them all

[polar locust]

Odie, about the stonefire non-split "feature" you think it was too overpowered for a event locked pet? It opened many ways for beos, to change from cactus

[hasty knoll]

this channel is not the only spot where beta feedback landed

[umbral glade]

yea i dont question that

but as you can see, those changes hit like nearly everybody by suprise

[polar locust]

I understand

[umbral glade]

it literally turned everybody here from happy to dumbfounded

[stoic epoch]

Seriously. And this was supposed to be the main place for Beo beta feedback

[umbral glade]

those last minutes nerfs without much (visible) feedback just completely deflated my enjoyment

yes, its better than before the patch

but its just weird comparing it to what i was used to the last 2 weeks of testing

[stoic epoch]

I thought we'd worked together to build something enjoyable, but then it gets completely changed the day of the patch

[vivid breach]

A heads up that the stonefire thing was a bug would have been nice

[umbral glade]

especially since it came fully by suprise

[manic nimbus]

Before this channel closes forever, I am requesting once again more Hydrus love in future patches please ♥️ feelsbad atm with 53 ALs in and do less than an al0 hera corvus

Or give me an HoC 🥲

[vivid breach]

Is heart of change live? I'm seriously considering

[hasty knoll]

again, #💡│suggestions is a great place if we'd like to explore these changes. making a case for them instead will be much more productive 🙂

[stoic epoch]

I'm disappointed. This is not the way this should have been handled.

But it is what it is.

[regal bramble]

HoC is the best buff for Beo
Bye guys ❤️

[wicked sandal]

Just one question: does crit dmg bond affect followers?

[hasty knoll]

yes, i understand you may be disappointed - communication about every change during a super active beta is not something i can really commit to

to say we're done here and HoC is the solution is a disservice. let's be productive and get some #suggestions going

[wicked sandal]

All other sources of crit dmg dont/didnt

[rugged glade]

Could we expect that proposals made by the future feature of selected players by classes will be more ... hm, "worked" ? Like, I understand that responding to all proposals would be time-consuming as hell, especially since this topic was sometimes a bit toxic. But studio's feedbacks could help to improve hard work done by some of us

[last bane]

There no Access yet to link

[umbral glade]

suggestions like "revert the last minute changes" are not gonna be anything productive even if its what we are thinking

lets be honest

[stoic epoch]

It's not even that he made this decision, it's that he made the decision to change it but not let us test it and provide feedback.

That's the whole point of the beta.

[hasty knoll]

consider wording them a little differently, perhaps?

suggest: "Add the attack bond to crit based Bestial Bonds, because <>"

[umbral glade]

yea i know

[regal bramble]

I'm sorry but the disservice was that we dedicated all this time in the beta, bringing options and choices to end up doing something like this. I'm not seeing anyone here satisfied.

[rugged glade]

Well, I'm not 100% happy either with how thing are landed, and how they were conducted in the end. But I also remember being sometimes disgusted and tired by some discussions here, and I'm not the man coding. Plus I don't have as emotional invest as Odie (I presume) in Orna. So I can't blame him for sailing away of this topic. It's sad, and I would like for all of us to do better next time. That's why I asked that

[umbral glade]

well, thats the nature of a discussion thread, if that is to be avoided, a #💡│suggestions topic for beta only would be the way to go

[stoic epoch]

"Disgusted" is a very strong word.

The discussions got heated.

To be fair, though, the class was in an awful place before the beta, and it had been left to languish there for too long.

[mortal hatch]

Before this channel is closed, I want to thanks everyone who were active for us -beo main- the class feel way better now. Thanks Oddie.
Please don't start crying over the patch now, everything can still change if needed

[stoic epoch]

The class is in a better place now.

Just not as good a place as we thought we were getting.

[umbral glade]

i am the first to say that "release it weaker and buff afterwards" is much better than "release too strong and then take away power" - but just saying that before the patch hit woulda been a nice thing

[polar locust]

Suggestions gonna be full

[gentle wolf]

I'll be updating my spreadsheet after work if my phone doesn't brick on me.

[polar locust]

I made my first

[umbral glade]

i will hold of mine until i am done with diablo 4 i think

[stoic epoch]

I'd love to know what channel the beo discussions were occurring in, because apparently I'm in the wrong chat.

[umbral glade]

anyways, so cactus for every content in which lindworm is not good at

yay

[stoic epoch]

Fjalar synergized so well with BeoO when it had the attack bond.

[manic nimbus]

Same follower scenery before the BBs

[hasty knoll]

again, you all have the power to help change what you're not pleased with. waiting on suggestions is only hurting yourself and prolonging what you are displeased with

[umbral glade]

we kinda thought we had done that the last weeks (and MANY of the things did work out, dont get me wrong, we are very glad that this is the case), we just did not expect to take these steps backwards today

[hasty knoll]

again, crit change was not today. stonefire may have just hit the servers, yes (not sure when that would have been deployed to all servers)

I can definitely apologize for general lack of comms in these things. From there, I only ask that we continue working together

[last bane]

I'm disappointed, the result is worse than the beta.

[gentle wolf]

Until I get the app update for Orna (I'm only T9 in HoA), I can't really test anything fully.

[hasty knoll]

you can view the bonds at https://playorna.com/codex/followers/

you'll still have the bestial bonds without an app update

[umbral glade]

wow the grand rally bond even lost grand rally

its just hp and mana now

[gentle wolf]

Oh, thank you. I was going to suggest that for the website, but y'all already had it planned out.

[umbral glade]

there is a new great questing beast pet with berserk and a really weird selection of spells and attacks

Wildfire III
Flame VI
Viperseal III
Viperstrike III

+2 buffs

[gentle wolf]

That should be the new Questing pet from one of the Guilds

Coming this next month.

[umbral glade]

https://playorna.com/codex/followers/the-mightiest-mimic/

that would explain why that thing never ever uses the earth and lightning spells

[polar locust]

Can you send link in #👋│general or something, to not spam here

[night mica]

I'm legitimately happy that beo is exciting to explore again. Thanks Odie!

[last bane]

This pet can be in Bestiary's, or it from future event?

[umbral glade]

i have it in my OT right now

same rarity as fjalar

[polar locust]

I think it's worse of Fjalar by seeing it

[umbral glade]

"rant about not having a atk bond and thus being outclasses by cactus"

[vivid breach]

I dunno how to make suggestions since I'm a discord noob, but if someone wanted to suggest giving beo h extra crit damage on hybrid skills so we can compete with other classes in pvp and raids that would be cool

[umbral glade]

type /suggest, then a little bubble opens, you type your suggestion into that and send it once done

[polar cypress]

And don't use anonymous option, is for the weaks

[manic nimbus]

Id love that but be prepared for players that dont play hydrus to downvote, sadly

[umbral glade]

i dont think the up/downvotes mean anything realistically

[polar cypress]

Yeah

[umbral glade]

its more a tool to collect ideas that dont get spammed away

[manic nimbus]

I like to think and hope that they dont matter

[umbral glade]

as anything that includes summoner and "not a nerf" gets downvoted anyways#

[vivid breach]

Yeah that's another issue, besides "just use the suggestion feature" being kind of a cop out, we don't have as big a player base to upvote

[manic nimbus]

I just wished Hydrus would have gotten more attention on this beta/balance

[umbral glade]

i just wished i could rewind 3 days or fast foward 30

[last bane]

It's a little cruel not to submit content for testing that you definitely know will be negatively received.

And then say "Offer, we are listening!" when a lot was already offered here

[manic nimbus]

Regarding hydrus, there was a.bit of discussion here about the fear of hydrus becoming a bit weak (despite being comfy) due to prom nerfs and all we got was bb2

At least, despite everything, auriga got a boost (however small). Hydrus got almost nothing 😦

[vivid breach]

Yeah I realize prom nerfs hit everybody, I just think it feels a bit worse for beo since we got a little taste of what other classes could do and now it's meh

[manic nimbus]

It is because it made hydrus do similar damage that other classes did without prom adorns

While I agree it has a really nice set of passives that make it confortable to play, a bit of more damaging power would do no harm

[last bane]

And what will remain of Hydrus when Prom adorns is nerfed?

[manic nimbus]

Just my opinion and no, I do not want a super OP class that can one shot everything. I just want equiparable t10 classes

[manic nimbus]

You would be better off with a t9 nyx

Sadly

[regal bramble]

Very cruel, some here spent hours and hours testing, discussing and giving new suggestions with the hope that the class could have its moment after so long. Is there room to improve now? Yes, but that initial blow was very strong, even worse asking us to suggest something that was in beta two days ago.

[hasty knoll]

could you be a little more clear about which of the two changes you are referring to?

the beta showed stonefire to be a little too much

the crit change was indeed in the beta for a bit (albeit not long, but any of the suggested changes being references would have lived for a comparable amount of time)

it's an active beta, so changes need to be made. we're here to work with you, but implying cruelty may harm that discourse

[polar locust]

Stonefire seemed to be ok, compared to mage dance tho

[hasty knoll]

with no split damage, it was 2.3x the penetration. much higher ceiling than Mage's Dance

is that bond the appropriate spot for (on paper) the best AoE in the game?

[night mica]

Is cthulhu prism wall spam a design choice or should it perhaps work like other permanent buffs from pets?

[hasty knoll]

all buffs are treated the same by follower ai. skadi should stop that, iirc

[umbral glade]

i would love to see the actual numbers on calls one day, i cant figure out what exactly they do

[manic nimbus]

One must also say something about the good things. Namely Archimedes is a very interesting pet for magic builds and Hydrus due to bestial bonds. I hope to see more interesting pets and bb interactions like on this little bird 🙂

[night mica]

I've never known the mightiest mimic to use mimic's mischief more than once though?

Or fenrir to use its bloodlust more than once

[hasty knoll]

oh, there is a discrepancy, since Prism Wall is classified a party member buff (rather than self buff).

[night mica]

Ah I see. As a solo player I've never known that

[hasty knoll]

nice, finally found the culprit of that issue

[vivid breach]

I feel like there are some easy solutions here. Lower stonefire damage, make it not split again. Add at/mag bonds back. Give hydrus some love (like my crit suggestion)

[manic nimbus]

The +crit dmg hybrid suggestion is something i can agree 100% with and helps setting the class identity as an hybrid class

[polar locust]

Oh didn't know it was that high

[hasty knoll]

yup, it's currently the highest pen split aoe in the game

before it was the highest pen non-split aeo in the game

[rough lotus]

Overall I like the changes, I like the crit being hybrid, I feel that Cthulu should have that crit bond, and some other hybrid pets should have the hybrid bond (ashen phoenix for example), if Octoblast could crit like ultima then cthulu would be perfect

[vivid breach]

Soooooo just lower it a little? Work with us here 😅

[polar locust]

Yupiii

[polar locust]

Isn't possible to lower the penetration to for example 1,5x and keep it non split?

I did the suggestion to make it again a feature, but can work around with those technical things

[umbral glade]

i am all for a non split option, but please on a non event pet, locking access to it to an event pet is not cool

[hasty knoll]

Banshee, Death Worm, Reaper, Great Reaper are all non-event fwiw

none T10, granted, but it is not event locked

[umbral glade]

great reaper: 5659 mag
medusa 10140 mag

[hasty knoll]

none T10, granted
😉

[umbral glade]

yea, its not hard locked, but pretty close to it

[polar locust]

But like the non locked are super low damage

If they are non split

[night mica]

Whilst leveling up I was hoping the lower tier pets would scale up with me and remain somewhat viable. Would be fun if my starter dog had an attack stat that was a few hundred attack stat behind my fenrir now that its a level 250 dog.

[misty acorn]

The ai in Auriga doesn't seem to be working as before, it's using a lot of immune moves, is this a bug?

[ivory birch]

perhaps not best (by that margin, anyways), but it definitely should be better than it is now

player-cast AoE (sweep, dance) get benefits from things such as auto/follower DC or lugus gauntlets. it definitely needed an adjustment, but this was was a bit harsh

that being said, an event follower's level 3 bond is the right place for very potent AoE

also, it was exciting to have something worthy of being used over cactus for the first time in like.. 2 years 😅

and it was different in how you set it up; required smart AI and knowledge of calls

[umbral glade]

at least every beo related suggestion is overwhelmingly upvoted

[polar cypress]

The problem with stonefire + reaper is that reaper is an attack pet (7k att 3k mag) using a magic aoe, while medusa is more balanced in stats (8k att 6k mag with same spec and class)

[noble stag]

wait reaper has stonefire?

[umbral glade]

yea

it used to be the balor forces bond

[polar cypress]

So is not a problem of reaper being weaker than medusa because it's not t10

But the problem is that reaper is not a magic follower

[umbral glade]

he knows

👍

i guess its "write suggestions and wait for change"-time, again

[polar cypress]

Seems that the explaination there is that "is not T10*

But is a lie

Is bad loadout

[umbral glade]

its the same thing with beaststrikes, while a good move, got dragged way down from fenrir having low mag

but yea

cactus it is

[polar cypress]

Whoever suggested the crit bond ruined my favourite hard boss toy

[ivory birch]

I don't mind that Fenrir itself was changed. what I do mind is the identity loss. it isn't just about damage, but more that it's a physical pet whose element you can change through affinities

yeah, it won't use beaststrikes per AI, but beaststrikes replaced the better physical skill

[umbral glade]

i still think that giving him a coverage move makes it a better pet

[ivory birch]

other coverage pets exist. fenrir's place as pure phys was relatively unique

[umbral glade]

but i just dont see a reason to use it anymore without the atk bond

[ivory birch]

Fenrir was lesser used because it's less applicable, but that doesn't mean the niche has to be changed -- it should have been improved within its niche

[polar cypress]

Eh it will work as before somewhat

[umbral glade]

crit is totally unreliable unless you invest your entire loadout into it, which is not something i want to do

[ivory birch]

^

[umbral glade]

yes it will work as before

[ivory birch]

the crit bonds are super questionable

[umbral glade]

other pets are just better now

[polar cypress]

Just won't be as good as would have been with attack bond

[ivory birch]

crit itself is already hard to build. having a fraction of that contribute is just impractical to build into

[polar cypress]

Yeah when I saw that I was "odie wtf"

[last bane]

Crit amity influences on pet's crit?

[umbral glade]

no

[ivory birch]

what really confuses me is why Fenrir was given crit bonds

[polar cypress]

Apparently somebody asked

[umbral glade]

crit chance would help for 44% of the crit chance amnity value

[ivory birch]

it seemed obvious that it was more suited to attack bonds (eg. cactus)

if it were the same bond class as cactus it would be better

[polar cypress]

If I find out who I'll go take all this territories

[last bane]

Maybe crit dmg from Prometeus relics?

[umbral glade]

i dont even mind it having atk + crit instead of atk + dex

[umbral glade]

no

crit damage does not work on pets

[last bane]

Then it useless at all .-.

[umbral glade]

no matter how many sources you list

they dont work

[ivory birch]

it just wasn't ever a crit pet, so why change it now. crit is the best for all other classes because of all of the crit multiplier increases

the crit multipliers that Beowulf's followers do not have access to

[polar cypress]

Frak why they refuse to give use full multiplicative goodies?

[last bane]

well maybe quetzal rogue hat shuld influence...

but 20%? really?

[ivory birch]

fear of being overtuned. justifiably so, I would say

[umbral glade]

crit on pets has so many flaws, fenrir and fjalar have 50% chance to use a crit move, you cant reliably get them to 100% crit chance without hefty penalties to yourself and they cant use crit damage

[ivory birch]

but the last set of changes prior to release are overly cautious

[umbral glade]

i like the option of buffing crit, if its in combination of buffing its base damage floor

just crit is so unreliable

i may as well just use cactus

[ivory birch]

with the bonds has the follower meta overly changed?

[umbral glade]

or chimera

[ivory birch]

Medusa was the only one that really incentivized me with the additions

[umbral glade]

well it went from "lindworm is likely the best raid pet" to "lindworm is 100% the best raid pet"

[polar cypress]

I'd say no, now that medusa returned to be a forgettable pet

[ivory birch]

the existing good pets (eg. cactus!) simply got better, which is good for Beo as it needed general buffs, but more variety would be ideal

[ivory birch]

that wasn't due to bonds, but that is true

[umbral glade]

oh dragon bond is kinda good

[polar cypress]

Oh it was bonds

[ivory birch]

lindworm just cannot be competed with

[umbral glade]

so that helps

[ivory birch]

atm

[polar cypress]

It gets a chunk of stats now

[umbral glade]

its biggest competitor in fjalar just lost its atk bond so it falls way behind

[ivory birch]

it's good that beo's raid speed got increased, but there's no reason it should be limited to one follower

[umbral glade]

so unless the raid has summons, its 100% lindworm now

and for aoe its 100% cactus still

[polar cypress]

Or dispels

[ivory birch]

same with beo's aoe and medusa, but again it shouldn't have been limited to one pet nor should it have been by that margin

[umbral glade]

it still outdamages if it gets dispelled infrequently

[polar cypress]

Oh is that strong?

[ivory birch]

no, Linda is still the best

especially with Auriga and AI bonuses

[polar cypress]

Thankfully I have it on all my alt army

[ivory birch]

AI bonuses makes it always execute marks, so there's only one turn to dispel the mark

and Auriga can just dualcast mark/execute on one turn

[umbral glade]

ymir might be good still, but i dont think its better than lindworm

[ivory birch]

then you can use Bryn+AI to ~guarantee marks

[ivory birch]

it's not and never was

plus gunnr > snotra

[polar cypress]

Anyway this patch left me some bittersweet sensations

[umbral glade]

it was pretty competetive before actually

[manic nimbus]

Even after all the bond brainstorming... The same pets pre-bonds are the best post-bonda

(disclaimer: not advocating for these said pets' nerf)

[umbral glade]

hey gazers are nice for overworld content now

[manic nimbus]

Sadly you have to... Use the gazer

[polar cypress]

We have 1% bonus more than vanilla rs now

[umbral glade]

collect dungeons, build outpost, swap pets, run 5 dungeons, swap to gazer

[manic nimbus]

Ooof

Nice buff

🤣

[polar cypress]

Anyway I'll make up my mind while I'll play this month and post some suggestions

[ivory birch]

not since smart AI, and that's been a few months

10 months, I think?

[umbral glade]

no, with smart ai, ymir does quite a good chunk of damage

[manic nimbus]

I knoooow that bestial bonds have future potential (if the fear of giving beo a bit of power is overcome) but I still think we'd be better off with a general pet stats buff.

[ivory birch]

yes, but not comparable to linda

[umbral glade]

in my testing against tower titans

my lindworm run took 2:17, ymir took 2:22

[ivory birch]

what'd you use for tower guardians?

I'm definitely willing to give it a whirl

[umbral glade]

(that was some level and AL ago, but the same gear and levels for both)

well

for tower clearing i wouldnt use fenrir anymore

idk what i would use

fey chimera or cactus i guess

tbh, i am not doing any tower any time soon

[ivory birch]

I want to, at least to try the new stuff, so I need Beo/A, Realm/C and a weapon or two (bow, axe, greatbow all are options)

[polar locust]

My lindworm do 3M

[ivory birch]

I got a ways to go 😮‍💨

[umbral glade]

i got a set of shards for a class or a weapon stocked up

and i already have 3? or 4? weapons and all the classes i wanted

[ivory birch]

I have a bunch of classes already, but I'm still missing both Gilgas, Beo/A, Realm/C and Deity/U

the last 3 are all desirable atm so... towers 😭

[manic nimbus]

What last 3?

[ivory birch]

^

Beo/A, Realm/C, Deity/U

[manic nimbus]

Oh, the celestials. Only one I am still thinking about getting is RSDorado for quad edge but ugh

[ivory birch]

It's a massive deal

I get to ~ideal health in dungeons with just two casts

[manic nimbus]

Or deity/A in case I want to flee the beo life

[ivory birch]

quad edge is actually such a huge improvement for beo

[manic nimbus]

I dont really redline in dungeons

[umbral glade]

anyways, diablo 4 tmrw

[manic nimbus]

And I think I still prefer hydrus raiding so my finger has been hovering on and off on the buy button

[misty acorn]

Bummer about the Medusa change, I'll just use cactus now as he's stronger for me.

Hopefully the ai from auriga will get fixed, pets spamming wyrmseal vs beos

Drake blight getting spammed as well from Bashe. Damn

[rugged glade]

I mean, free DC exists on a event pet, without any BB required, so yeah, totaly agree with you

[last bane]

...just foud Prometeus relic nerfed too, expexted this on thid part of balance Patches...

[manic nimbus]

Yep

[primal gulch]

Make Hydrus greate again !

Damage from verse4 droped from 1.3kk to 500k....

[umbral glade]

it was voted by the community to have the prom hand nerf in this patch

[manic nimbus]

Thats why we are advocating for Hydrus crit damage increase

#💡│suggestions message

[primal gulch]

Where ? Please show thread

[manic nimbus]

Linked just above

[primal gulch]

Thx

[manic nimbus]

That suggestion is only for hybrid damage increase but if it is a significant one, it will be interesting

At this moment, magic chakram seems to perform slightly better than v4

[stoic epoch]

Getting your character to 57 crit isn't hard. With that, your pet is sitting at 27% crit with no buffs. Add crit and t.crit for a total of 67%, then the 15% from aerial barrage for a total of 82% crit.

At that point base beo is critting 100% of the time, so if you're weaving in Riposte 3 for the damage and temp buffs and your pet is critting 82% of the time I call that a win.

Or does it not math out to being that effective?

[last bane]

Tryed Atlas with BeoA on Apolly
At 1Hp he just keeping using Titan's Lesser Wall skill, no dealing damage at all

[stoic epoch]

awaits major to drop cold hard math facts

[umbral glade]

yea but 57% crit through items is most of your loadout. I dont doubt that you can make it work, its just not something i wanted to do as beoA. I was very happy using atk based ward gear and relying on base damages from the atk bond, as I, as the player, do not intent to crit

[stoic epoch]

Akshually

[umbral glade]

the pets 82% crit chance still gets halved from the random move selection

[stoic epoch]

It's not

[stoic epoch]

Well yeah, but that's always a problem with pets

[umbral glade]

40% from a prom hand weapon, + 17% from other sources, yes its not very hard

[stoic epoch]

I'm not even using a celestial

[ivory birch]

yeah, that looks to be right

[umbral glade]

crit rate alone does not make crit good thou

[ivory birch]

^

[umbral glade]

and crit bond does not transfer crit damage

and you dont increase the base dmg to scale off of either

[stoic epoch]

. . . . . . so you're saying I shouldn't have re-adorned my afey crow for crit?

[umbral glade]

you do what ever your heart desires

[ivory birch]

I don't see why you wouldn't. there's little reason to do otherwise for any class 😅

[umbral glade]

i just dont use critting skills on beoA, so gearing for crit doesnt net me enough payoff through crit bond to consider it

[stoic epoch]

It doesn't mage as much sense for Beo A as it does for BeoO

[umbral glade]

so the crit but no atk bond pets are out of consideration for me

[stoic epoch]

It made more sense for BeoO a couple days ago when we still had the attack bonds

[umbral glade]

while the atk+crit bond pets were perfectly fine, i could increase their base dmg and them randomly critting was a nice dmg spike

now i will just default to cactus on any non raid fight

[stoic epoch]

I still want to know which chat Odie was in where they made a case for removing attack.from the crit bonds

Like, I'd love to read the logic

[ivory birch]

I'm sure it was this one

[stoic epoch]

It wasn't