Valhallan Changes

[stoic epoch]

Aoe sigils

[misty acorn]

Anubis was awesome

[stoic epoch]

Aoe element spells

[misty acorn]

Damn

Aoe sigils tho?

[stoic epoch]

It's not as awesome as it sounds

[misty acorn]

Giving a pet aoe and sigils doesn't really work well

[stoic epoch]

The aoe sigils are nice, but he likes to spam them

[misty acorn]

Cause neither hordes or single targets work well

It's like worse of both worlds

[stoic epoch]

And switch them on back to back turns

[misty acorn]

Can you guys test them, cause he was amazing before

Sigil smash in pvp

[stoic epoch]

Dragon event pets are also available

Standard dragon bonds

[misty acorn]

Omg I'm there

Damnit so goryn has those huffs?

Buffs*

Damn, he doesn't need to use those 😦

And Ymir can barely land blights as it is, and his skills can't crit. Could we remove the buffs from Ymir??

Gets a blight, let's buff

[gentle wolf]

What did I miss? Whaaaaaat

Oh nice

[misty acorn]

Should I tag Odie or do you think he'll be keeping his eye on the thread 🙂

Can you guys all actually test these pets and contribute

[umbral glade]

..? have you not paid any attention to this the last 3 weeks

[misty acorn]

Wow

[gentle wolf]

I hate autocorrect

[misty acorn]

Lol

[gentle wolf]

Apparently never tag Odie

You should check the pins, I made a spreadsheet, that I have to now update tonight lol

[misty acorn]

I use Ymir and gorynych currently in live and have been since the event really so I'm pretty familiar with them. Ymir is already quite hard to use in pvp

Wyrms song could be removed from Ymir and Goryn as their moves cannot crit 🙂

What you think?

[umbral glade]

its also a temp atk buff

and it also buffs you

not just the pet

[misty acorn]

Ideally I'd take off the other buff too but wyrms song should probably go from these pets. Just because he'll use it instead of attacking, even after spending ages trying to attach a blight

So you'd have an opponent, he will use prismblight until it sticks, then buff and then the blights might be gone

I'm not suggesting changing the dragon bonds itself, just the Draconian event followers

Bashe can crit for example

[umbral glade]

then make suggestions other than remove X

[misty acorn]

So it's not so bad on him

I did

That is a suggestion and a reason behind it

[umbral glade]

yea, write a condensed post so we can get it pinned

[gentle wolf]

What if Gory had the Giant family bonds
And Ymir either had the Ancient or Magical Bonds (minus Bolt Volley)

[misty acorn]

Bolt Volley wouldnt be the worst

[gentle wolf]

I keep hearing it's really bad

[misty acorn]

Yeah its not good but I'd prefer that over buffs

[gentle wolf]

But what makes it "bad"? Low pen, low damage?

[stoic epoch]

That's still not enough in my opinion. 20 or 30k would be more appropriate.

[misty acorn]

Yeah it's the multi hit vs tanky targets

[umbral glade]

but then you have a level 225 char with additional 30k ward

[stoic epoch]

No you wouldn't

[umbral glade]

thats why flat amount (%ward based on the pet) is so hard

[misty acorn]

We need more beos testing this stuff lol

[stoic epoch]

What Beo is going to use a golem over a damage pet?

[misty acorn]

That's why I suggested absorption

[stoic epoch]

Even then

Let's be realistic

We're still using the same 4 pets

[misty acorn]

Yep lol

In fairness most of the t10 ones are good when I used them

Ones id never touch are sweet now, just cause they damage boost

[stoic epoch]

Fjalar won out pretty hard this patch, easy to build crit on, synergizes well with BeoO, everything but barrage gets the faction damage bonus now.

[misty acorn]

Fafnir is so cool lol

He does everything

Ymir was my fav, and yeah he's worse off now just because of the meta

I'm not supposed to say worse, but I mean less consistent and reliable

[stoic epoch]

I like the dragons having WS3. . . . You're making me reconsider Wyrm's Song though.

[misty acorn]

Ymir can't even crit bruh lol

[stoic epoch]

If they spam it for the temp buffs that's not good.

[misty acorn]

And wvs3 I can just cast myself

Id rather him blight and attack

Incase you missed it

A blight sticks, then buffs

[stoic epoch]

That's pvp though

[misty acorn]

In the current pvp meta, you're dead

He was awesome for pvp before

Unfortunately pvp is in this game so I'm gonna test it lol

[stoic epoch]

I'm not an enjoyer

[misty acorn]

Not gonna use Ymir in dungeons anyway

And spending turns buffing in raids isn't a big deal

Aight so with the current changes Ymir is pushed into that raid only pet category but other pets are probably going to be used instead, like fjalar or lindworm

[misty acorn]

This is fair, I don't mind ws3

I can use wyrms song if my follower or I want to crit. I don't think followers that don't crit should have this, it just wastes turns with no benefit in a lot of cases.

Wyrms song is easy to obtain and use yourself

In testing wyrmseal is actually pretty awesome, I like it

[stoic epoch]

I like them having Wyvern Speed 3 as it frees up a skill slot for something like Cure Bleed.

[misty acorn]

Fair point, at least it benefits overall regardless if a move can crit or not. It's a good skill to have

[wicked sandal]

yeah wyrmseal dmg is actually quite high

[misty acorn]

Them randomly firing it off is actually pretty good

Most of them like to blight first so having that extra skill helps

More reliable offense

[gentle wolf]

Ymir consistently using the element matching the blight, nice. 100ks one after the other on my mirror

[misty acorn]

So you wanted aoe added to anubis,how does it perform in dungeons now

Ooof that damage is so low

Al106 beo tamer

Could probably get the II or III spells

[gentle wolf]

Would it be better with the level 2 or 3 AoE skills?

And you caught it lol

[misty acorn]

And it's using sigils and I'm getting screwed, but only after I used skadi lol

It's so confusing

Skadi making them use sigils more

I'm in orn gear btw so I mean or course I'm gonna get hurt, but this is how it goes once I get to a t10 floor

he consistently used aoe skills in the horde. Just needs more damage I think

I liked him before

[rugged glade]

You always say that

[misty acorn]

So you'd prefer doing <10k to each enemy in a horde over a sigil+spell exploiting weakness?

Explain why

At least I test and give reasons

[gentle wolf]

Doesn't the AoE skill spread it's damage out depending on the number of targets?

[misty acorn]

Yeah so it's like 40k max vs bad monsters at al106 beo tamer

With snotr up

Can other people just try to use it in a horde plz

A t10 horde lol

Cause that's what aoe is for

[gentle wolf]

I can on my sandbox character

[misty acorn]

It's not gonna kill a summon or a gs in pvp, it would take like 30 hits

And I can't even clear 1 t10 floor

200khp on mammon it did 5k lol

[regal bramble]

That's exactly the problem, the bonds came and it's certainly a very good thing, however, we still have the same 4 pets...

I always think "Cool, fjalar got a crit bonus" I already know I won't use others.

[gentle wolf]

Gonna have to wait until I get home

[stoic epoch]

The bond system being in place is a good thing. I think we'll get more variety with desirable bonds going forward.

[gentle wolf]

That's kinda what I was trying to get at when I commented on the reddit post.

[stoic epoch]

I think that'll change eventually

Just not within the scope of this beta

[gentle wolf]

Of course, I believe that.

[regal bramble]

What I'm saying is that what would be better than Fjalar with these bonds? A pet with Realmstrikes? We have 180+ pets and it still feels like we have less choice than a warrior choosing a melee skill.

[stoic epoch]

But yeah, most t3 bonds are window dressing at this point (our Big 4 aside, obviously).

[gentle wolf]

I did spitball an idea that TMM to get realmstrikes

[umbral glade]

fjalar being the best in single target physical damage crit is not bad

but there can be better non crit pets, better magic dmg pets, better elemental pets, better aoe pets, better defensive pets

[regal bramble]

This has nothing to do with the balance patch but it's something that needs to be looked at from now on, I can't look at Cactus anymore

[umbral glade]

there will always be one "best" pet

for 1 activity

and thats fine

[stoic epoch]

I mean, the patch hasn't done anything for pet variety, but now I've got a reason to build for a certain amount of crit while using Fjalar.

[umbral glade]

its just that one pet shouldnt be the best at everything

[umbral glade]

and that there SHOULD be options

mimic is fine as it is tbg

tbh*

[stoic epoch]

So build variety has been increased, which is nice

[umbral glade]

maybe its bond could be increased a bit

it lost its chance to poison you so its great for redlining again

[stoic epoch]

I'm pretty happy where we're at, overall.

Bonds still need more variety

[regal bramble]

Best to just let it go, the Beo hasn't received attention in years and I'm very grateful for what the studio has done, but it doesn't hurt to leave this issue up in the air.

[umbral glade]

the bond anubis got today is a good sign, thats the type of bond we need more off

it builds upon the skill set of the pet

helps you scale it

[stoic epoch]

No one's telling you to let it go

[umbral glade]

and if you invest your class into it, it expands and improves the moveset

[stoic epoch]

It's cool to advocate for change

[umbral glade]

what if anubis got sigils+ like it does now

but at level 3 bond it says: chance for its attacks to hit all enemies with a sigil

or even guarantee it

[gentle wolf]

I think one of the issues is balancing the family bonds as opposed to what members of the family get unique skills

[umbral glade]

at level 3: Spells hit all targets with a sigil

we dont have family bonds anymore

not strictly

[regal bramble]

Blights should have a 100% chance to work with Valhallan classes, it came with dragons and it makes sense to do so.

[gentle wolf]

Which I'm fine with, that gives the ability for the followers to be unique to the base monster it came from, which I will easily champion that idea.

Anubis is a mix of Ancient now with extra skills.

Which fits his kit.

[umbral glade]

its pretty much the "anubis" bond

takes its base skillset

improves it

[gentle wolf]

Now, minus the Sigils, would that fit Cthulhu?

[umbral glade]

which can be exactly what some pets could need to be viable

[gentle wolf]

I need to go back and compile the ideas I was making about skills based on the monster moveset

Like this one:
#1097570738086621295 message

I think the original idea of families was to ease the development, then it switched to "give us ideas on what you think would fit"

Which is great, and I'll gladly use my spreadsheet and suggest a skill for each follower when I have time.

[misty acorn]

When you just want him to use a fire attack

I died because of the bond skills, which is why I always say 'i liked it before'

[summer gulch]

Have you tried bhynil?

Or as I call it call of benadryl

Cus lidworm seems to work better when I benadryl it

[gentle wolf]

Working on the spreadsheet, Just noticed that Ancient Jinn did get the same skills Anubis did.

[misty acorn]

I tried lots of different set ups, every single set up was more random and less reliable than the original pre bond skill set

[gentle wolf]

Ok so all 183 followers are on the sheet now.

[misty acorn]

@summer gulch double checked call of bryn, did the exact same thing is in the video

buff, wyrmsleal, buff

dead

This is while the enemy was blighted

[summer gulch]

Sadge

[rocky rivet]

Tried out anubis for horde boss. Still too weak compared to fey cactus. Would be useless against GS 🙃

[misty acorn]

My conclusion as well. Posted my damage results and stuff. We need more people to test and report back

[gentle wolf]

My sandbox character Anubis is getting about 7k on a spread. However I ran into a Balor Gateway and Anubis is refusing to use anything but Wildfire, which is immune.

Does the AI look at the codex or does it use its own?

[misty acorn]

I am not sure, 7k damage on aoe is like some t8 damage lol

In its current state, anubis doesnt do enough damage to be good choice for t10-11. I think it needs help.

[gentle wolf]

Lv250 no AL without any specific boosting gear.

[misty acorn]

yeah at al106 i didnt do much more than you,

Your test still helps heaps, i appareciate it

[gentle wolf]

Without any calls, Anubis didn't cast a single sigil during the whole dungeon

[misty acorn]

Same with me

Skadi made him use sigils which I found interesting

[gentle wolf]

It focused strictly on the new AoE skills

[misty acorn]

But until i used skadi he was offensive, which was great, but also confusing lol

[gentle wolf]

I made another page in my spreadsheet for my suggestions

I'm gonna try to look at all of them

[rocky rivet]

Propose to include Bonded Magic to Elementalist BB (Anubis) so that the AOE damage scales with the Owner's mag

[sick tinsel]

AoE debuffing could be use for Elementalist BBs and Debuffing BBs

I approve

[misty acorn]

it's probably going to need a bit more help than that

[sick tinsel]

To summarize recent changes :

• Ward bonds got buffed massively
  - Titan BBs as been replaced by Humanoid BBs on Titans followers Bestial Bonds display in menu can be bugged ...
• Elementalist BBs got Elemental Sigil+
• Some minor tweaks here and there to some BBs

The BBs listing is up-to-date. 👍

@warm finch Can you pin this, pretty please ?

I propose to attack now Elementalist BBs since it has been modified

@quaint maple Does mirrorring accounts have been suspended ?
I don't see new mirroring since nearly 2 weeks
My main account has evolved quite well since my last mirrorring, and I want to compare Beta and Live

[sick tinsel]

Anubis with Elementalist BBs is spamming AoE spells, and worst : resisted elements on Cactus !

He only used Wildfire when Fire Sigil was applied

Sigils doesn't last long, maybe should we had a Debuff lasting bonus ?

AoE spells feels out of place for a BBs specialized in dealing Elemental damage and exploiting weaknesses

[round shore]

"debuff exploiter" as a follower identity/archetype/bondset would be nice.

like: eleexploit, buff/debuff duration, magbond(?)
anubis, ymir, glashtyn, lindworm(ish) could all use it to good effect. probably others.

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, that's what I expect with the Elementalist BBs

Lindworm is not terrible as Elementalist, he can't deal Light damage to exploit Lyon's Mark weakness

But yeah any Sigil / Blight User
or even any Follower with Elemental damage can use Sigils+ from BB3

[quaint maple]

Your mirror request was two days ago, not two weeks ago 😅

Cleaning this up, really not required chatter.

[umbral glade]

Sigils are quite turn hungry, so they aren't great for dungeons (unless they get auto applied in the beginning of combat) for the current state of dungeons. But i like the concept of them in other content

Auto applied sigils are something that could be a great bond imo, pve only if its a big pvp concern

[sick tinsel]

Elementalist BBs #1097570738086621295 message

BB1

+5% Fire Damage ❌
+5% Water Damage ❌
+5% Earthen Damage ❌
+5% Lightning Damage ❌
Boosting every elemental damage will generate much text for not much effectiveness

🛠️ -> +25% Elemental Weakness Bonus
BB1 Magical makes more sense for an Elementalist Follower, so copied it and improve it to be more relevant, exploiting Sigils will be really rewarding !

BB2

+7% Bonded HP (HP to Owner) ❌
This BBs is damage focused, HP Bond feels out of place

🛠️ -> +10% Bonded Magic (Magic to Follower)
Replace HP per Magic to increase firepower !

+10% Bonded Mana (Mana to Owner) ✅
In the theme of magical followers

BB3

+8% Bonded HP (HP to Owner) ❌
🛠️ -> +15% Bonded Magic (Magic to Follower)
Same as BB1 but stronger

+10% Bonded Mana (Mana to Owner) ✅

Bonded Ability :
~~- Wildfire ❌

• Chain Lightning ❌
• Natura ❌
• Winter Wind~~ ❌
  Elementalist speciality should be exploiting elemental weaknesses, not dealing AoE magic damage, this can be another BBs speciality

• Fire Sigil+ ✅
• Ice Sigil+ ✅
• Lightning Sigil+ ✅
• Earth Sigil+ ✅
  AoE debuffing is new and well welcomed, this will help against Summoner enemies

If you want Sigils/Blights to last longer, you can switch your spec. to Assassin at expense of damage of course, or should we add +50% Debuff duration for example ?
Knowing this can affect both Follower and Player, it might be too strong

What do you guys think ?

[umbral glade]

25% ele weakness exploit on tier 1 might be a bit much, that could be split to 1+2 or 1+2+3 (like 10% per)
A mag bond is very much needed for them.
Sigil+ instead of sigils are nice.

For more unique ideas for them:

• sigil applied on combat start
• chance that single target spells hit all enemies marked by sigils
• enemy with sigil is resistant instead of immune

[sick tinsel]

What about :
BB1 10%
BB2 15%
?

[umbral glade]

Yea, who knows, maybe 25% on level 1 is fine, but if not, splitting seems like an easy solution

[sick tinsel]

Well I will need more feedback for this one

It's not a flat +25% damage for every attacks

it's only if you apply Sigil or deal weakness damage, so it's very situational

sigil applied on combat start would be interesting in world/tower/pvp not sure if an elementalist is good at those content

[umbral glade]

Would make my boy arisen glashtyn much more viable for dungeons

[sick tinsel]

Well, you don't enter in a combat at each floor, else Ward passives would proc at each turn and give you infinite ward turns

[rocky rivet]

i think sigil applied on combat start might be too much to ask for. there's no existing mechanism

[umbral glade]

Remember that each floor in a dungeon is a new combat start (or could be for this to passive)

Its supposed to be an empty canvas so i paint stuff that i would like to have :)

[rocky rivet]

how about beoA with two pets

[sick tinsel]

Asked many times, too complex to make and balance

[umbral glade]

I think that train left the station when summoner became a thing

[rugged glade]

👍

[rugged glade]

Really cool, thanks

[sick tinsel]

Urgh, unreadable

I was making the point that my ward turns didn't increases between each floors despite having the Amity "Increase ward turn by 3 at the start of battle"

chance that single target spells hit all enemies marked by sigils
that would be interesting, maybe simplier for Odie to passively cause a random Sigil, like you can gain passively gain a temporary boost

[rugged glade]

I think the chance of hitting more marked enemies could be cool and fun, it's a good idea to add

[sick tinsel]

enemy with sigil is resistant instead of immune complex mechanism
Would have been simplier if the elemental resistance was in 100% 50% resistant, instead of multiplier 0x, 0.5x
Sigil can decrease by 50% the resistance, Blight by 100%

But heh, changing the whole Elemental/Debuff Resistance/Immunity would be a whole update on its own !

[sick tinsel]

Well I suppose AoE spells was for that, but it dilutes the Follower movepool, plus doesn't take in account elemental affinities of each monsters you hit

Unless Odie create us Flame+, Frost+, Spark+, Tremor+ and the IA can be able to calculate what the best spell to use to avoid resistances/immunities but also exploit weaknesses from monsters or from sigils/blights

[rugged glade]

I didn't have time yesterday but I would love to test Anubis AoE and sigils with the fomorian event gear boosting AoE damage

[umbral glade]

Idk enough about programming to comment on how hard it is to implement, i just throw out ideas

[sick tinsel]

Just try to see what it already exist and try to make a flavour of it

[sick tinsel]

Might be faster to just create Omniblast+ or Ultima+

[umbral glade]

Bonds as a whole didnt exist. Then bonds adding skills didnt exist. Then bonds interacting with player/pet stats didnt exist.

Something not existing should not be a hindrance to creative ideas

Skills having a chance to hit more than one / additional target/s already exists, so a sigil based version of that isnt unheard of.
Changing elemental resistances and immunities already exists (items/walls/alignment/cascades/blights/sigils) as well

Buff applying on combat start / dungeon floor start already existed with the first iteration of bonds

[rocky rivet]

debuffs applying on combat start sounds like more 🍝

[umbral glade]

More.. spaghetti?

Pasta is good, right?

[sick tinsel]

Odie took time to create the whole Italian gastronomy
And now we have to cook some plates to complete and perfect his work

So we don't have time to recreate spaghetti code

Keep things simpler

[umbral glade]

Neither me nor you are coding here my friend, lets stick to ideas

[sick tinsel]

Well I don't code for Nothern Forge, but I'm willing to propose my services

[rocky rivet]

maybe we could stick to ideas about existing BBs values and skills rather than new combat mechanisms

[sick tinsel]

It doesn't sound to complicated, but it won't have the effect researched

We already have effect that start in combat

Ward turn for example

But this doesn't proc everytime you proc a new floor in dungeon

And I don't know any effect that do that in game

[umbral glade]

Bestial bonds first iteration did

[sick tinsel]

Oh

What it does ?

[umbral glade]

Applied a buff at start of combat and new dungeon floors

I gave similar ingame examples for all 3 ideas i threw i

[sick tinsel]

Dunno, if I want to do Dungeon as Beo, I use Cactus

Cactus with Bonded Attacks will be better than Live version

Making Sigil users viable in dungeons feels like trying to put a square item in cylindric hole

[rocky rivet]

hopefully after this whole exercise, there will be more options for different followers for different content

[umbral glade]

Yes Cactus is great, more options would be great as well

[rocky rivet]

Anubis sounds like it could work. just needs more refining

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, like an elementless AoE follower, but not Sigil user

Not every followers should be use for every content

[umbral glade]

And they won't, but just increasing numbers makes the entire concept of bestial bonds useless

Then you couldve just added the numbers on valhallan dissonance or the auriga passive

Bonds allows pets to be more than they are on live

[wicked sandal]

But without the numbers to back up the idea it won't work either

[umbral glade]

No doubt

[wicked sandal]

Anubis aoe sigil + aoes is an idea (although currently there is no real aoe content where you want to spend a turn not aoeing), but with for example the lv1 elemental aoes he just won't have the output necessary

give him the maji lv3 aoes and some bond mag and maybe check if it's still not enough after

[sick tinsel]

So you want to keep AoE but with stronger version ?

[wicked sandal]

I want to see if it's possible to make it work if he has stronger aoes, besides for a tier9-10 thing (bond 3), we should be gettign actually powerful moves

getting the lv1 aoes which are a t5 skill is a bit weird

when the lv3 aoes exist

[sick tinsel]

Problem is, the IA seems to prefer spamming them instead of Sigil or own follower's spells

[wicked sandal]

I just think his current niche isn't worth exploring cause he's either a worse or better ymir, so you would just replace one follower with another

[umbral glade]

I think he could just get the level 3 aoe skills as his base skills instead of his current tbh

[wicked sandal]

That said, there just simply aren't enough niches for every follower to exist, even if we limit it to the t9-10 ones

[umbral glade]

With sigil+ being the bond skill

[wicked sandal]

Factually the ones that have bond 3 (og and auriga) want mostly one thing from their follower: damage

and there's only few ways to get that damage

[umbral glade]

There is a argument for a more defensive pet approach on base beo but currently that niche is fully covered by the god bird

And the lack of content that requires a defensive setup

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, I think if we want to deal damage in AoE, it's better to have a pet dedicated to that, instead of having this option in BB3

Like Cactus

Or we can create a BBs for AoE damage

+X% damage from AoE skills/spells

But doesn't feel right for Elemental followers

[last bane]

wow

and what about BeoH? Was smt new?

Would be AI improved to horde battles?
To use AoE skill when there more than 1 aim

[wicked sandal]

that has been the case since smart ai was introduced

[last bane]

okay, i see
But Anubis still trying to hit the immunity by AoE spell, even if there only one enemy

[south sleet]

we need genius ai passive now

[misty acorn]

10k damage or less is so low everything might as well be immune

[gentle wolf]

Bonded Ward 50% ?! Wee I have some stuff to document

[gentle wolf]

So data for all Bonded Ward has been updated.
Mimics lost self-poison chance.

Still looking for other changes.

@sick tinsel You pointed out a lot of changes, thank you for that.

[umbral glade]

if you scroll up a days worth i listed all the stuff i could find as well

[gentle wolf]

I'm probably going to add a special thanks page somewhere

[umbral glade]

[gentle wolf]

I think I updated everything.

But I'm on the way to work, so I can't exactly do a comprehensive check of every follower codex yet

I may have to reverse my suggestion for Goryntch, because that Bonded Ward would be broken.

[umbral glade]

bonded ward has bigger numbers now, a ortanite golem gets me from 152912 ward to 157629 ward

those numbers are still not very big

[last bane]

What if...the more BeoA have Pet's AI gear - the more chance of Doublecast pet will have?

[gentle wolf]

The base ward of an Ortanite Golem is....

[last bane]

Now we can get 5 AI from Titan relics and 3 from Quetsal set, right?

[gentle wolf]

Maybe 9 to 10k.

[sick tinsel]

Bonded ward is based on Follower's ward, that means a low fix ward

Doesn't really make sense to get 50% ward from an Ortanite Golem ward (20k-ish ward ?)

Even if Follower's stat can be boosted per ascension, your own ward too

Well, before starting to think about how to improve BBs ward, let's pin the precedent BBs

[sick tinsel]

@warm finch BIP ... BOUP ... "Pin this, please" ... BWAAAP !

[warm finch]

Dropping some sick pins

[gentle wolf]

Ortanite Golem gives me more Ward than the Olympia Titans. Hmmm...

[green jacinth]

i was gonna reply to that post but i'll say it here, this will be my first interaction here.

with the new beastial bonds abilities, i think it would be nice to see if other classes outside of valhallan to use Tamer specialization (since it gives you the first bestial bond ability). I think it will depend on how powerfull are the BB1 abilities but in my opinion, it's something to take into account before setting pets' abilities

[misty acorn]

Apart from making Anubis do t10 worthy damage, I would like to see the Draconian event followers have different abilities/no abilities so they can be more offensively reliable 🙂 as in, don't use buffs/wyrmseal after blighting. No other suggestions from me. All seems pretty okay to drop and let the non beta people test/see what everyone thinks.

[misty acorn]

📌

Lol

[warm finch]

Pinging me makes the pinning easier

[misty acorn]

Sorry, I didn't want to be annoying 🤓

[gentle wolf]

You can still reply there if you like for more exposure.

Currently these are the Lv 1 Bonds.

[gentle wolf]

Since the family lines are starting to blur, this doesn't really matter too much, but it's still interesting to look at.

Animal and Magical are tied with 46 followers each.

[gentle wolf]

Is there some way to get back to the beginning of the thread?

[round shore]

best bet is to go to the oldest pin and scroll up

[gentle wolf]

awesome thanks

[gentle wolf]

Still slowly adding to my suggestions page on the spreadsheet.

[warm finch]

Well if you don't ping me then I might miss it and then the message doesn't get pinned :p
I wouldn't ask for pings if they annoyed me :)

[sick tinsel]

Before to try to Bond anything with any value, let's try to determine the goal of Ward Followers

[rocky rivet]

How about giving ward turns or ward recovery at BB3

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, that's what I thought also

but most Ward followers have Ward regeneration through "Ward of [insert metal name]", "Mend Wall", etc ...

Ward turns at the startof battle is huge, especially for BB1

#1097570738086621295 message

2 turn will only protect you from 1 attack if you attack first

maybe adding +1 turn for each level beyond

BB2 +3 ward turn

BB3 +4 ward turn

I use Ward pet for protection or ward support in party

But Pheonix is just straight up better because it upkeeps ward, grants +100% stats (Def/Res/Dex for the defensive part)

[polar cypress]

Also adding mend wall to a BB would make the pet more support in party runs

[sick tinsel]

Well, many Ward pet already have Mend Wall

But if we can create a Mend Wall+

[polar cypress]

A mend wall-like spell

[sick tinsel]

yeah, that could be cool

[polar cypress]

Aoe mend wall of 10%

Anyway my beo "supports" are going to run cactus as they are now

[sick tinsel]

Mend Wall+
Fortify+
Rempart+
?

[polar cypress]

Second chance mob killing is the best support

[sick tinsel]

yup

But in hard content when you can't OS mobs and if you have high risk of death

But again IA is near useless

It uses often Mend wall and other Ward regen when you have less than 50% ward

but when you want to support the ward of the whole party

💀

The pet randomly choose a member and give it ward turn

instead of using its brain and giving it to the one with less ward turn

I.A. to-do improvments : In party, followers when giving ward turns should prefer to give it to the player with the lowest ward turn instead of randomly

[sick tinsel]

@warm finch 📌 pleaaaase

[sick tinsel]

thank youuuu

[polar cypress]

~suggest ping-bot role to John

[sick tinsel]

The mad-pinner

We still don't know what Boulder Toss (the bonded ability) does ?

[sick tinsel]

Finally !

Boulder Toss is an attack that inflict T.Dex and regen 10% ward

[misty acorn]

Lol

[sick tinsel]

You want to laugh more ? It's magical.

Under gunnr

With snotra low-life

[gentle wolf]

A physical attack?

[sick tinsel]

Magical

Snotra boost it, Gunnr nerf it

[wicked sandal]

magic rock

[sick tinsel]

Magic boulder tossing

[gentle wolf]

Has anyone confirmed what Stonefire is? I assume magic, but is it omini fire/earth?

[gentle wolf]

It's doing neutral damage.

Oh it did cause petrified

Okay so learning by @sick tinsel 's example. Stonefire is magical, affected by Snotra

Since G.Reaper is a physical follower, this also has a side effect of it losing turns. I think it didn't act three times in a row

[umbral glade]

Stonefire is also aoe

[gentle wolf]

Wouldn't reaper type followers benefit more from a cleave or X Slash I / II skill?

[umbral glade]

On my "shuffle existing bonds around to fit thr pet" list i did a while ago i put that move on some more magic dmg based pets

[gentle wolf]

I thought about maybe Onslaught as well

[gentle wolf]

I'll dig through this thread and update the suggestions sheet. I added two for Grand Rally on Cernunnos @umbral glade

I need to think of a way to present the changes here, because I know there's a character limit etc for more visibility inside the thread rather than just the spreadsheet

[tribal coral]

Could it be possible to make calls buff pets if they don't already? Its not hard to get 100% action rate and calls are core skills that even as beo can fail to cast, for the risk it doesn't feel like a matching reward.

[manic nimbus]

Vallhallans should have 100% call success rate 👀

Or 99.99% so as not to be overpowered 👀

[tribal coral]

agreed, even then its a buff that unless you don't have 100% action rate doesn't do all that much and takes a whole player turn, I think calls need a bit of attention

[manic nimbus]

I once thought about a beoO/A/H hydrus passive similar to Summoner's auto summons but with calls. As in: it would autocast the first call skill on your spell list

[tribal coral]

I'd take that

[polar locust]

That's a good dream

[manic nimbus]

You would still have to cast your gait so I don't think it would be too overpowered

But would be a nice QoL

And also makes sense in my mind when we get into a fight with our follower we instantly shout our call 😎

[tribal coral]

I'd still like to see it buff pets as well since it will be taking a skill slot as a price, even if auto cast it wouldn't have the value of a summon skill slot

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, when people lose it for Wyvern's Speed II, I personally don't complain

[tribal coral]

but I'm not trying to be greedy either 🙂

[manic nimbus]

You are not screaming loud enough

Id ask John to pin my call suggestion but im not sure if its too relevant for this beta

Just a nice little valhallan QoL

[sick tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/hide-the-pain-harold-harold-smile-fake-gif-21831073

I'm dead inside

[manic nimbus]

🫂

[sick tinsel]

Funny thing Skadi is way more reliable than Brynhild

[tribal coral]

revive II

[manic nimbus]

From my experience, by a lot

[sick tinsel]

Use Fafnir or Great Pegasus, for instant revive

[manic nimbus]

In fact that auto-call thing would work great for all beo variants

[tribal coral]

nah I'll make you wait a turn

[manic nimbus]

And its one less buff turn(S) we spend buffing

[tribal coral]

cant give up the quick casts of dc

we are all phenix addicts in the end

[sick tinsel]

Unfortunatly

Pheonix will take all the shine until instant-DC is nerfed one way or another

[tribal coral]

is there any plans for that? I'm all for it but I'd rather see them buff other pets to phenix level than nerf it

[sick tinsel]

There is a whole thread created for this : https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1084739116807237653

But it is now closed

To summarize :

• Removing spells granting ward turns
• Removing protect chance
• Modifying Deific Channel in a different buff (Pheonician Channel giving a less powerful buff, for example)
• Making Follower's skills and spells respect the number of turns necessary

[umbral glade]

make pets beo only

[sick tinsel]

Those are ideas, no incoming changes

[tribal coral]

sad to say it but they should make the insta dc cast just 1 up arrow all like you get from tower chest

change the spell name on both phenix pets to something like demi channel or something

give that spell to tier 8 element classes too

[chilly plover]

Can raging cerus get the criting element skills please 🙏

[green jacinth]

i think lvl 1 bonds should spice up a bit, it would bring different builds of non-valhallan classes with tamer. Seeing some of them are elemental res is kind of a let down.

I dont know what could change there, but im just sharing my feelings about BBs.

Also, is it mandatory to have the same bonds (or at least in most cases) tied to a family? Bonds opens up a new dimension for pets, i think it would be best to set specific bonds to each pet rather than family, not all pets do the same (or shouldnt do)

[stoic epoch]

Sharing out the Fjalar's BB set would open up at least a couple pets I can think of.

Chimera / Fey Chimera at t10.

Raging Cerus at t9.

[round shore]

common bondsets across multiple things with similar family/identity is a cost-saving measure.

in an ideal world with infinite dev time, per-pet bond would probably be best and allow for the most fine-grained tuning.
but given that we don't live in that world, we're hoping for a middle ground where we get a good spread of bonds without as much dev time.

[stoic epoch]

Hell, 3 of Nidhogg's skills can crit, he's a perfect candidate for Fjalar's BB set.

[chilly plover]

In the engineering world, I like to say: “the absolute best design solution, that is near free is the solution to pick”

[gentle wolf]

Suggestions BB1

Gorynych, Son of Mountains just for @misty acorn

Level 1: Fire Res: +10%, Lighting Res: +10%, Dark Res: +20%, Holy Res: +20%
Level 2: Bonded Ward (50%), Bonded Defense (8%), Bonded Resistance (8%)
Level 3: Bonded Ward (50%), Bonded Defense (9%), Bonded Resistance (9%)
+Abilities Wyrmseal, Wyrm's Song, Wyvem Speed III

[misty acorn]

This is the exact reason I have kept my suggestions small and simple and focused on the necessary ones first. The followers that arent efficient or reliable enough and deter people from using them are the ones they should focus on first. You've played orna enough to know what pets get used and the reasons why most of them don't get used at all. The ws3 morri screenshot for example... Great he used ws3 in a raid. You can cast this yourself, same with wyrms song. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's little benefit, it's just less likely to be used in dungeons or pvp now. Not being negative, it's just how it is. Nothing wrong with a 'raid only' pet, just using it as an example. Saying that, most of the pets arent worse off than before so that's good! Anubis needs the high tier aoe spells tho lol. 😊 overall I'm happy with the buffs and I do more damage with beo now. I do kinda wish the hands of selene didn't get nerfed cause, I liked doing decent damage for once but i understand the nerf completely. When the patch drops the devs will be able to see the pet usage details and see if the bonds have changed how popular some pets are and ones that get used less and make more changes then, it would give more insight. I could be completely wrong.

[misty acorn]

Yeah I definitely don't like this change 😦 😦

[manic nimbus]

I agree. I believe no matter how bonds are tweaked, it will not affect follower usage much and, funnily enough, especially for beoO/beoA

Since those two are pet classes, players will always use the most efficient ones for specific content.

[gentle wolf]

Good thing it's just a suggestion

[manic nimbus]

Bonds are interesting for Hydrus/other classes though

[misty acorn]

The skills sorry not your bond changez haha

Your bond changes are nice

[manic nimbus]

Which kind seems counter-intuitive

[misty acorn]

If the goal of the patch was to make more pets viable or be used more, I'm guessing maybe not but the devs will be able to see once it goes live.

[round shore]

I would like for the bonds to make more pets commonly used, but as I said at the outset, pet variety is actually one of the things current Beo/A does alright in.
All of {cactus, fey/chimera, lindworm, ymir, fjalar, fenrir} get common usage, and stuff like {tmm, gory, vss} get uncommon usage.

Importantly I would like to make sure that variety isn't too reduced while we're getting these bonds, and that primarily beo raid/endless is improved since those are the areas it is very weak in.

[manic nimbus]

Think like summoner's summons. I believe they use specific summons for specific settings (I never dwelled much on summons but Fux can probably give his insight) and even if there were new summons with new spells, summoner players would probably stick with the most efficient one for X content

[misty acorn]

I'm totally fine with keeping the same pets used, don't get me wrong it's just that if their goal was to make the less common ones more popular I'm not sure they have succeeded. Maybe a couple of them. I'm still super sad about the draconians getting those abilities

[manic nimbus]

Agreed, specially on the raid/endless improvement. But according to some tests folks have done, it seems to have been improved a bit (at least fjalar raiding from what I gathered). I personally havent tested

[misty acorn]

Fjalar was super popular before so usage will go up haha he's amazing

[round shore]

raid speed is pretty greatly improved. just looking at lindworm, I'm seeing a large chunk of added stats (read: M1 multiplier), plus making faction matter means that Faction Affinity is 1.25x as an additional buff.

I need to test live v. beta times to get an exact measure.

[misty acorn]

I definitely focus more on efficiency in dungeons and pvp

Raiding is easy mode

Towers now, can't forget those

[manic nimbus]

Oh I completely forgot about lindworm! While I am veryy happy about raiding improvement, I think it will be very hard for NF to make other followers as appealing as the best current ones

[misty acorn]

Imagine trying to use Draconians in towers now. I bet they don't get off a single attack

[manic nimbus]

Specifically for a class thay relies on pet for its damage

[misty acorn]

Blights and buffs before attacking

Even once blighted they buff. It's frustrating

[manic nimbus]

We will keep using the same ol' pets for a specific content

[misty acorn]

I just want those abilities taken off the draconian followers, there's no benefit to them

[manic nimbus]

Im happy as long as those get boosted :d

[round shore]

I'm still pretty sure (like... 80% sure) that fjalar doesn't need bondattack.
Bondcrit for him is a pretty large boost.

But, I'll measure.

[misty acorn]

Yeah he doesn't need the bond attack

I don't think any of the bond skills are great or make pets more viable? Ive been trying not to be too negative and focus on the things that need to be changed. It'd be cool if they didn't need the bond skills to make pets use moves more, just give beo more pet act and take them off? It's too late for that I guess. So all I can ask for now is certain pets be fixed like the dragons lol

[manic nimbus]

I actually defend that auriga at least should have 100% act rate

We do pesky player damage anyway

[manic nimbus]

I would swap bondatk for more bond crit 👀

[misty acorn]

I think so too, most pets act all the time now, just not cactus lol

[manic nimbus]

Either that or auto call on fights beginning. Why does beo need to use a turn to start doing damage xd

[misty acorn]

Calls still make pets act weird af

[wicked sandal]

Most of the bonds just end up slightly reinforcing the followers we already use, actually making other followers viable is difficult

[round shore]

I'm not married to bond skills. Bond stats and the other passives are good, bond skills seem pretty hit or miss (and mostly miss, and have been changed around and removed).

That being said, I could imagine a world where a desirable bond skill means that BeoO/A rethink a follower in a totally different light.
Adding a bond skill that completely changes the use of an otherwise unused/unloved pet.

As an example: something like...
Great Reaper is a generally less useful T9 follower. It does okay damage, mostly attacks, bahas would probably prefer CG or Nid or Glatisant or even something like VSS over him.
I could imagine GReaper getting some kind of sweet "soul steal" big damage scythe crit attack that makes him suddenly interesting in T10 with Beo's BB3, when he would otherwise languish.

[misty acorn]

That's what I was hoping would be the case

I'm not married to bond skills, and haven't liked them from the start. None of them improve any pet in my opinion

[gentle wolf]

I think there was a new attack somewhere, but I couldn't remember where. I didn't see it on the Covyn raid.

[manic nimbus]

I can agree with making less used/uninterestig pets shine with BB3 but I can't foresee that happening. :/

[manic nimbus]

I share your opinion

[wicked sandal]

wyrmseal is actually pretty good on nidhogg, though wyrm song we could do without cause the last thing we want a pet to do is spend turns on temp buffing, beoO and especially beoA would prefer to just put those buffs up themselves

there's some utility skills here and there that can be useful, but for the most part what beo seeks from a follower is consistent damage, and if they can't provide that they've already halfway failed as a beo follower

[round shore]

For towers and pvp, I definitely want "full attack" kits to lead with attacks. Turn1 stuff.
For gauntlets and raids, I don't mind perm buffs at all since it ultimately just accelerates or simplifies a ~20-turn thing.

[wicked sandal]

yeah perm buffs are fine

temp buffs are problematic

[round shore]

||also I'm calling a raid a 20-turn thing, but realistically, it's like a 5 turn thing nowadays so... 🤷‍♂️||

||pretend I'm talking about OR raids 😆||

[manic nimbus]

Would anyone find interesting bonds that granr auto-calls? Skadi ii for cactus for example

Brynhild for ashen

Etc

[wicked sandal]

what I'm really interested in is how calls even work (or if they even work )

With the interplay of % act rate, calls, ai (and all the effects added to it), sooner or later we'll be like "Use beo charms to reduce act rate of other skills, use skadi 1 (not 2!), two pieces of smart ai, gunnr, avoid getting mag up so use warcry/bears instead of wyvern speed/mimics, and you can make shade of achlys spam CDG"

also don't forget to set your phone's time to night and align it to the moon

[misty acorn]

Lmao 🤣

It does feel that way

[manic nimbus]

Bonds kind of worsen that as it's an added (and frankly, sometimes complicated) mechanic while I honestly think that most of beos troubles could have been solved by a buff/rework of pet stats, adorns and whatnot and a buff to beo's passives like ascension synergy

But now that bonds exist, I do hope it brings beo to a decent spot I guess

[gentle wolf]

What if BB3 could disable, replace, or upgrade skills?

That's probably complicating coding, but it's a thought.

[misty acorn]

I just suggested being able to disable or change bond skills. I don't think any of them help 😦

[gentle wolf]

Well, for example:
AbilityUp: Magic Arrow III
etc etc

[tribal coral]

I do have to say, with summon % buffs being higher than pet % buffs on most items, double on the amity, when you can have multiple summons and the buff impacts their toughness as well it does feel like followers aren't keeping up on that front

you have to buff act rate as well to get it consistent while summoners can just buff stats

[sick tinsel]

Summons alone doesn't do much damage, but they can tank so much

[summer gulch]

So like did the beoH discussions die? Hadn't seen any real suggestions on it, other than maybe increasing the effectiveness of bond%s

Or is beoH just that much in a good spot

I'm beoA mind you but I believe in all beos

[sick tinsel]

I use all beos

Because is not a true main,the one that doesn't use every variant

[misty acorn]

I think the last suggestion for beoH was getting bb2, and Odie said he's open to it, and it's a good suggestion ☺️

So we can wait and see what he says or decides

[sage umbra]

I would like to have them

[last bane]

Was some changes to BeoH?

[manic nimbus]

Id like that. And a sort of steadfast chef's kiss

[summer gulch]

Stat change and I think one other thing, but getting bb1 maybe bb2

But nah I'm mentioned beoH cus I'm hearing bc beoA getting so much love that beoH might fall off a bit

[south sleet]

beoH will not fall off, it didn't get nerfed

it's more like beoA is catching up

there's a difference

[last bane]

I just remembered that Odie was talking about some changes in the near future.

[sick tinsel]

Warden BBs #1097570738086621295 message

BB1

+2 Ward Turns ✅

🛠️ -> T.Def(6%)
🛠️ -> T.Res(6%)
Replace Bonded Def/Res

BB2

+50% Bonded Ward (Ward to Owner) ❌
+8% Bonded Defense (Def to Owner) ❌
+8% Bonded Resistance (Res to Owner) ❌

It's either a broken chunk of stats bonus at early t10, or irrelevant at t11.```
> 🛠️  -> T.Def![du](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/568940958402740244.webp?size=128 "du") (3%)
> 🛠️  -> T.Res![du](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/568940958402740244.webp?size=128 "du") (3%)
`Same as BB1 but stronger`

> 🛠️ -> Bonded Ability : ***Fortress*** 
> ```Increases ward absorption at 35%, gives 3 ward turns and regenerate 10% ward, applied on all allies```
> `Litterally Rampart, Fortify and Mend Wall in one spell for everyone in the party to avoid dilution of the Follower's skillset`


__BB3__
> **+80%** Bonded Ward (*Ward to Owner*) ❌
> **+9%** Bonded Defense (*Def to Owner*) ❌
> **+9%** Bonded Resistance (*Res to Owner*) ❌
`Same as BB2`

> 🛠️  -> **+1** Ward Turns
`Extend ward protectio more`

> 🛠️  -> **+4%** Protect Chance
`More reliable protect chance`

> Bonded Ability : 
> ***Boulder Toss*** (M1: ???, M2: ???, applies T.Dex![sd](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/568940821005729823.webp?size=128 "sd")) 🛠️  -> make it a flavor of **Spiked Shield** (*Unmissable*, use a portion of __ward__ to deal damage, high *damage multiplier/penetration*)
```Boulder Toss is an interesting ability that should help us to hit ennemies and lowering its HPs.

Not being able to convert Ward in Damage like Spiked Shield is really a shame for followers that can regenerates 50% of Ward in 1 turn !```

I won't gonna lie, this BBs is tough to complete to make it viable and not broken in both ways

[tulip tundra]

Whats the harm in making it a little broken. It's not like beo itself can do amazing damage unless highly ascended

The only exception to this is beoH which doesn't have bb3

[wicked sandal]

Yeah is it really a problem if a defensive utility follower has enhanced defensive utility on the follower class? Other than a bit of party support and being able to stall weaker opponents than you in territory defense, it wouldn't be that powerful

[tulip tundra]

Agreed

[last bane]

Maybe it's easier to give up this mechanic?

[sick tinsel]

Then let's make Protect Chance 100% that won't be overpowered, after all you can bypass it with 100% Accuracy skills & spells

[gentle wolf]

Someone on Orna Legends couldn't open the spreadsheet due to their location in the world, so I made a txt file version. Currently cleaning it up for readability.

Discord (Desktop or by downloading the file on mobile) can actually show the entire file inside the window, so that may help everyone.

[wicked sandal]

Bit of an overreaction no

[sick tinsel]

Well I would like to play with Protect Chance more

But I don't want to make it a Battalions-bis problem

Also, making a new mechanic where the Follower can act when protecting would be cool

[gentle wolf]

Beastial Bonds Database in Text format

[gentle wolf]

@warm finch @merry crow Requesting a pin please. 🙏 📌

[gentle wolf]

Thank you.

I learned some stuff about Notepad++ while putting that together 🤓 fun stuff.

[rough lotus]

bonded dex feels like a wasted bond, specially at bond 3

Fenrir
Animal
10
Earthen Res: +20%
Bonded Dexterity (7%)
Bonded Attack (12%), Bonded Dexterity (15%)
None

basically only Bonded Attack (12%) matters

mean while a less rare pet:

Fjalar
Animal
10
Crit +4%, Crit damage: 7%
Bonded Attack (10%), Bonded Crit (20%)
Bonded Attack (15%), Bonded Crit (20%)
Bonded Strikes

[sick tinsel]

Well that will be our next bond, but for now, let's concentrate on how to improve Warden BBs, I'm not quite satisfate yet

[gentle wolf]

Act ON Protect ?

Ortanite Golem protected you
Ortanite Golem retaliated with Guarding Strikes

[sage umbra]

A skill which gives defor/and and resor/and can be useful?

[sage umbra]

Not even sure of my proposal

[sick tinsel]

I hesitated to add Blessed Shield as a Bonded Ability, but I'am also afraid to dilute more the skillset

[sage umbra]

But if there is a pet Warden passive that makes the SS stronger I will be delighted

[sick tinsel]

SS should stay stronger on Gilgamesh

[sage umbra]

I thought about gilga > Warden passif > other

[sick tinsel]

Well, having followers reliably restoring 50% ward is already quite a feat as SS Spammer

[sage umbra]

It's true

[gentle wolf]

The more I think about this the better it sounds. We have +Abilities, but the idea of +Passive has been thrown around quite a few times.

Level 3: +Passive Retaliate (Gives Follower the chance, let's say 50%, to act after protecting it's master)

Maybe it could fit in some Level 2's.

[sick tinsel]

Feels better at BB3, since BB2 might be BeoH/Tamer

I was also wondering if we could add Counterattack as Bonded Ability, but that would feel crossing the line

[gentle wolf]

Yeah, the way that follower skills ignore skill turns you'd never know when to expect it.

The suggested Retaliate passive depends solely on if the follower protected you, on top of 50% actually working. Depending on the Defensive follower some would be more hard-hitting than others.

However my mentioned "+AbilityUp" suggestion could turn, for example, replace/upgrade Guarding Strikes of the Ortanite Golem into Guarding Strikes II or III (depends on balance, rarer pets could get IV), giving Retaliate more weight of better damage.

[summer gulch]

Doesn't beo have the lowest dex stat? Maybe other than gilga?

It's important for beoH but yea beoA not as much

[gentle wolf]

Well, looking at it Bonded Dex adds the followers Dex to us.

Let me look at a Pegasus for example.

No gear no pet, base lv250 BeoA / Bene Dex 133
With Pegasus Bonded Dex 20% total, only 233, which only added 133.

[gentle wolf]

Let me see with Dark Peg if there's a difference.

[summer gulch]

(But also not really)

[gentle wolf]

Yeah, that's reaaaaally low.

Hmmm... it might be effected by gear to some extent

But it's still really low, unless Dark Peg has slightly better internal Dex.

Actually I didn't take into effect Follower+ gear, that might be it

No, there's definitely something off there.

Ohhhh, wait Bonded Dex goes both directions.

Follower to you and player to follower.

When I put on Ravens gear, the D.Pegasus was getting boosted by the Dex.

So in turn it boosted my Dex off it's new stats.

[summer gulch]

Good thing that doesn't create a feedback loop

But neat

[gentle wolf]

OK, so doing some reverse percent math with some online tools, the Pegasus family seems to have roughly a base Dex of 670.

That's where the +133 is coming from wearing no gear + pet

Maybe closer to 660-665.

lol the math isn't lining up, I'm missing something.

The total Bonded Dex is actually 22%. (7 + 15)

But even with that, something is off.

[summer gulch]

133/.22 (aka 22%) is 604

So 133 is 22% of 604

If I math right. Math hard

[gentle wolf]

It's funny, math was my worst subject, but I love messing with spreadsheets.

OK so, looking at 604 instead

Since realizing that Bonded ward is buffing the follower and the player with eachothers Dex, that muddies up the formula a little bit. So I have to go back and revaluate what the Pegasus base Dex actually is.

Pegasus might actually have a base Dex closer to 575, since 22% of base BeoA Dex is 29 which should be getting added to the Peg raising it to 604

Yeah I still don't see where that 250 difference is coming from wearing Raven gear taking and stowing the Pegasus.

250 is 22% of 1130, so how is the Pegaus Dex being boosted to 1130.

[summer gulch]

✨ magic ✨

[polar cypress]

How can you see the Pegasus Dex?

[summer gulch]

I wish ik how to deep dive into stats like yall, I read stuff and am like ???

[polar cypress]

You are inferring from the boni?

[gentle wolf]

I'm trying to figure it out using reverse math

[summer gulch]

Inferring from stats before and after equipping dex bond

[polar cypress]

Tbh if they exist they shouldn't be hidden

Expecially now that they mean something

[gentle wolf]

Yes, but the bonus effects the Follower and the Player by 22%.

[polar cypress]

Is 22 or 7*15?

[gentle wolf]

Percentages should add up in the end, so I'm not sure what I'm missing. But then again my math is subpar and I'm relying on tools.

[polar cypress]

Orna: the multiplicative RPG

• unless is per stats bonus for reasons

[gentle wolf]

Level 1 is 7% Dex Pet to Player AND Player to Pet

Level 2 to increases that another 15%

[summer gulch]

Math isn't real all the numbers for orna are just made up 🤷‍♂️

[polar cypress]

Also are you factoring pet stats bonus? Which might or might not impact somehow calculations

[gentle wolf]

Oi!

Hmmm.. well I bet that's it.

Because the 22% of Player Dex that goes to the Pet is being boosted by the Class passive?

Boost upon boost.

[polar cypress]

Anyway I wouldn't dig into that much, you'll get insane

[gentle wolf]

[polar cypress]

Unless orna is a secret project to recruit mathematics expert who are are able to decode its mechanics

Then you might win the final price

[gentle wolf]

John is pretty good with math (from experiance), @warm finch are you busy? We have a math problem...

[polar cypress]

Well bet he is, bot are good with math

[gentle wolf]

lol

I'm sure there's a chart somewhere with BeoA follower boosts.

[polar cypress]

Valhallan Way: +1% Act, +55% Stats
Valhallan Strength I: +3% Act, +65% Stats
Valhallan Strength II: +7% Act, +110% Stats
Valhallan Dissonance: +12% Act, +90% Stats (see below for health scaling)
Valhallan Dissonance II: +14% Act, +110% Stats

Beastmaster: +5% Act, +50% Stats
Tamer: +8% Act, +55% Stats

(Arisen) Feral Staff/Sword/Claws: +7% Act
(Arisen) Feral Hood: +15% Stats
(All Pieces) Fey Dragon Armours: +2% Act
(All Pieces) Fey Chimera Armour: +7% Act, +15% Stats
Dragoon's Charm: +2% Act, +4% Stats
Freyja's Charm: +4% Act, +10% Stats
Beowulf's Charm: -5% Act, +25% Stats

Symbol of Doom: +1% Act, +2% Stats
Bestial Eye: +1% Act, +1% Stats```

Valhallan Dissonance: Scales up to 2.25x stats @ 2.5%stats/1%hp below 50%

Ascension Synergy: Stats * (1+(ascLevel/100))

Courtesy of major

Is in orna legends beo channel pins

[gentle wolf]

Awesome, yes that one.

So Valhallen Dissonance II has all the previous %s, right?

[polar cypress]

If I had the strength for opening the computer I would join the fray

No

Additive meas that tamer + dissonance 2 is 110+55

And not 110*55

That's beo 101

No pet stat is multiplicative

[gentle wolf]

OK, so I'm using Bene, so only the 110% would apply...

[polar cypress]

Yep

[warm finch]

I am unfortunately pretty busy, sorry

[gentle wolf]

Hey that's fine.

[polar cypress]

Wow I did a test with baha

Bb2 nets a whole 1 dex

[gentle wolf]

Well, since this is Additive, the Dex would be what, boosted by 132%

[polar cypress]

Oh no wait, the class change menu factors bb

[gentle wolf]

I thought I might be getting close, but before I go I should take a break and mow my lawn, which has overenjoyed the recent rain in the area.

[gentle wolf]

Alright... thought about it, and there are many unknown variables that would make this a lot easier. And I think there's a specific order of operations, like what if the Players Dex is shared with the Follower first? This is a theory so I could be completely wrong:

Players Dex is X
Followers Dex is X
BB Level 2 and 3 increase Followers Dex by 22% of Players Dex
(Here's where the possible Orna😜 of operations might kick in)
The game may recalculate the new Follower Dex with the Beo Passive, then:
22% of Follower Dex is shared with the Player.

[gentle wolf]

Also, BeoA has 'enhanced' BB, so that has to be taken into account as well.

[gentle wolf]

....

There was a Beta update on Android... I can see the Dex of the Pegasus!

The Bond is listed under the Follower page

Whoa what

Numbers showing our buffs?

...

lol Where is everyone? I keep finding new stuff!

OK, that's no longer mirroring the "buff icons", but hey, it's data

Alright, some of the numbers are being added up on that screen...

[last bane]

No changes to BeoH :(

[gentle wolf]

Maybe not now, but we're still not out of Beta just yet.

OK, so the "Enhanced" Beastial Bonds from BeoA is just a 12% increase.

Asteria of Olympia has 100% Ward with Beo, 112% with BeoA

OK, so it looks like the green stats on the Character screen aren't just related to Followers.

That might be my Origin Town buff.

Yes, it's 10%

[polar locust]

That's awesome!

[gentle wolf]

The Turn Order is animated now

[polar locust]

Wait 145% seems a lot

How much is that?

[gentle wolf]

Let me switch back to Golem

[polar locust]

Can you show?

Im getting excited lol

Always like good changes in beo or orna in general

[gentle wolf]

Without / With Golem on BeoA

[polar locust]

Hmm, 3k ward? 😅

[gentle wolf]

It looks like the Ward will apply in battle

Yeah, that does seem off for a Lv250 O.Golem.

[polar locust]

1k defense ok

Gives good defense but ward feels low

[gentle wolf]

Well, if you take into account AL, that might be for balance.

[polar locust]

Yeah with AL that may vary much?

[gentle wolf]

We may have to wait for dejct or another high AL Beo to answer that.

[summer gulch]

odie be lurking 👀

[gentle wolf]

I'm glad, and on the Weekend? Super cool.

[misty acorn]

I have to do math in the stat screen haha, it doesn't show totals. Im sure they'll change it back

[gentle wolf]

Were you able to update the beta client?

[misty acorn]

Lemme check!

It's updated yeah

Lol

[polar locust]

WHAT

[misty acorn]

This isn't my ward build in using all pet stats for testing

[polar locust]

That's crazy

[polar locust]

Put ward build pls

Its going past 500k i assume

[gentle wolf]

Ahahah What!?

[misty acorn]

This isn't max

Just changed items

Without changing adorns I'll try max 1 sec

[polar locust]

Okk

[misty acorn]

It's over 500 pretty sure

I can't be bothered changing augments tho if that's okay lol

Oh I'll do it just for the lol gimme a minute

[polar locust]

I would like to see the very max if you can but it's ok

[gentle wolf]

OK wait, for perspective; What AL are you again?

[polar locust]

He's over 100

Dont know the exact asc

[misty acorn]

106 lol

[polar locust]

😮

Almost 100k hp too damn, mini raid

[misty acorn]

Wanna see max HP?

[polar locust]

Yeah

👀

[misty acorn]

Stupid build tho lol

[gentle wolf]

Is that with a Common or Human follower as well?

[polar locust]

Wow 😂😂

[misty acorn]

Was using Hydrus any bb1 bonds for hp? Lol

[gentle wolf]

Don't think so

I haven't seen any change.

80 + 50 is 130 + Enhanced Bonds is 145

The Follower screen is combining the stats

[polar locust]

Yeah i just readed the bb2 haha

That's why i deleted

[misty acorn]

Auriga has way less ward

By a lot

[gentle wolf]

Hydrus has like 3600+ more HP than Auriga tho

[polar locust]

Mighty mimic gives 14% gold bonus, that's nice to farm gold 😂

[misty acorn]

Yeah haha

I can still get okay ward on auriga

[gentle wolf]

OK, so Bonded Dex description is more clear now, it sounds like the Players full Dex is added to the follower, then we get the bonus

But you have to have Dex gear to really benefit.

[polar locust]

Yeah

[summer gulch]

Now ss3

[misty acorn]

But installed to ward adorns so lower attack haha

Probably do less than if I added offensive augments and had 300k ward it won't be that exciting

[summer gulch]

True

[misty acorn]

Plus beo does half the damage of gilga with ss haha

[polar locust]

Wish i had this on live with the broken beta setup 🤣

[misty acorn]

Asceeeeenddd

[polar locust]

Gonna make it more ascensions

To see

[summer gulch]

Ssshhh it's fine not broken at all

Let us have this

[polar locust]

Gf unfelled concord, completely fine for mw

With 28% ward

[polar locust]

Got to 21 lol

[misty acorn]

Wow I didn't even notice that lol btw my build didn't use any beta items

It was all legit items from mirror

[polar locust]

Sandbox character is funny

Will we get the + green numbers in live? Or this is just to test purposes?

[misty acorn]

I think if it was dropped without the actual total it wouldnt be long before people asked for a total lol

[gentle wolf]

Or an Option to toggle it in the settings

[polar locust]

Idk how to feel about bonded strikes in fjalar

Doesn't have the same power as aerial barrage but isn't low as other skill

[gentle wolf]

So I see where "Delay Strike" came from, Nyx cele's are getting new skills.

Not sure if that was already a thing (According to a search yes).

[misty acorn]

This is basically all bond skills. Well, the bolt volley does 0 on arsenal when his other skills do heaps.

[polar locust]

That's sad

[misty acorn]

I've said this many times it's probably getting annoying by now

But yeah

[polar locust]

I will probably use more Lindworm after the patch in raids idk, because of the 2 bond skills, frees me up slots

[misty acorn]

Wyrmseal is in my testing actually strong, compared to skills they already have. But I was just testing arsenal and every bolt volley did 0 lol

It's like okay cool can you just use your old skills plz

[polar locust]

So volley is very weak in penetration?

[misty acorn]

Yes

Suuuuper weak

He doesn't need that skill either, his spell rates like 100%

It's definitely a negative addition

He has other skills that hit multiple times and are better and has 100% spell rate so he doesn't need bolt volley. He cool if it was swapped to something better

Or just taken off

[summer gulch]

Can you show chained shield numbers for your beoward

Prolly not even worth since you lose pet power, less you beoH

[misty acorn]

I don't use pet power often, not worth

I like og beo when chain shielding

The damage differs so much depending on weapons, augments and shields etc, you need a good attack stat as well as ward for it to work well

[summer gulch]

Does it work like ss?

In terms of atk stat and gilgamesh bonus

[south sleet]

works the same aside from the penalty of not being a gilga

[summer gulch]

Wait so no antigilga penalty

Can you rephrase

[rocky rivet]

Chained shield is basically SS2. Yes anti gilga penalty

[summer gulch]

Ah, ty

[south sleet]

anti gilga is a weird phrase, looks like it means gilga has the penalty and not the non gilgas because anti gilga means against the gilga class

non gilga reads better than anti gilga

[grim whale]

The green bonus stat is from BB only?

Because there are some bonuses on non vahallan classes

[wicked sandal]

ascension levels too at least, maybe some other boosts like origin town and party bonus are also in there

[grim whale]

I know the level is different, but the stats in beta is lower than live

I thought that BeoH's stat got buffed

[wicked sandal]

doesn't seem like it

[grim whale]

It's more like a nerf than a buff

[wicked sandal]

I mentioned it before that beoH has lower hp on beta for some reason, despite beo getting base stat buffs overall

https://discordapp.com/channels/448527960056791051/1097570738086621295/1107957213043118170

dex lower too, other stats seem similar/higher

[grim whale]

I thought that the green stat was from BB and I thought BeoH got buffed 😂

[dark token]

Is it possible to change Medusa's bond to something more hybrid themed? Or just boost both atk & mag

Medusa's skillset ranges both phys and mag, yet currently its bestial bond is mana/mag, which makes the phys aspect of this pet less interesting.

And I'm not sure if the AI for AoE is working properly, sitting with only atk^/atk^^/gunnr and beoA+1px of ai gear, my Medusa still prefers to do full-bend on horde waves 1 by 1, instead of using its arrowstorm. (Normal horde, all enemies have a few thousand HP)

[wicked sandal]

Yeah there's a bunch of different mechanics influencing follower action working together, and they don't always work well with eachother

I'm not sure which things take priority where though

[dark token]

Ah, I suppose if I'm battling in a tower with tougher mobs, I'd much prefer Medusa doing full-bends to take down opponents 1 by 1. It would be great if the pet AI could estimate their damage output and choose the action that maximize some goal like <enemies downed this turn> or smth.

(This may be too much to ask for 😆)

[manic nimbus]

Uh oh. Hope that is not intended and just a consequence of weird math that can get fixed D:

[misty acorn]

When I checked beoH had more stats in beta, it's harder to check without totals now tho

[misty acorn]

Whoa beoH has less stats now????

Less than live

I just checked 😭😭😭😭

Has less HP (and ward) in beta

You need a calculator for the stat menu lmao I checked in pvp as well to make sure

[manic nimbus]

Is it much less?

Cant really test cause my mirror has way less Als than live

[misty acorn]

Nah not much less but it means no buff 😦

And originally there was

[manic nimbus]

Gahhh

I hope it's a bug of sorts. Doesn't make sense hydrus not getting any love and a stat down on top of that

[misty acorn]

It's odd that you guys talked about it getting a buff and then it gets nerfed

Could be an accident

[wicked sandal]

Which I find strange cause hydrus should have at least carried over the def/res buff base got since those are the same across all three variants

but live and beta def/res seem to be about the same

[misty acorn]

It's also real hard to compare now with the status menu. But yeah it's slightly less with the same gear on. Made sure i even joined a party and had ot bonus etc

It has more offense btw

Just less hp

[manic nimbus]

Guess we need to wait for a NF statement on these stat changes

Unless... Odie removes -100hp from hydrus everytime we ask for a hydrus buff. D:

[misty acorn]

Buff removed it seems

Oops wrong screenshot 1 sec

Lemme make his clearer, hold on

[summer gulch]

I'll miss my +3k hp, it's what I was sorta looking forward to

[wicked sandal]

it still has more hp than base/auriga, just less than live for some reason

[manic nimbus]

Yeah i was kinda hyped for base stat buffs

[misty acorn]

Took off pet as well to make sure

[manic nimbus]

Dex got lowered as well

[misty acorn]

It's confusing af

[manic nimbus]

I think

[misty acorn]

It's all lower?

[manic nimbus]

Yeah

😦

[misty acorn]

Great

Hands nerf and class nerf

Rip hydrus

[manic nimbus]

Still have hope its accidental but yep, its worrying

[misty acorn]

I don't understand

Hopefully my comparisons are just wrong

[manic nimbus]

Not like hydrus is super OP like other t10s

Lets hope its accidental and/or that HoC gives orns back 🤣

[misty acorn]

Yeah man

For real

[manic nimbus]

Sadly cause i truly enjoy beos

[misty acorn]

It's reasons like this I'm 100% for HoC

Things can change in an instant and you can't do anything about it

[manic nimbus]

Aye me too. Let's see if we get any official comment on this situation tho as I really hope its accidental 🙏🙏

[misty acorn]

Thing that sucks is the crit augments make any class look op

If you don't use those, the damage hydrus does isn't that amazing

I guess we just run og beo now?

Og beo is definitely stronger now right

[wicked sandal]

at redline it has more stats yes

[misty acorn]

Comparison HP wise

Hydrus still got more

Just no overall buff from live :/

[wicked sandal]

I think hydrus is still far better for quick raids/kingdom dmg limits, better in pvp, probably better in towers

[misty acorn]

I use og in towers cause the extra pet damage helps a tonne

But player damage wise it's way stronger

Maybe since I can kill with either cause of my ascensions og is better in my case

[wicked sandal]

yeah base can pull ahead if you're ascended to the point that base can oneshot most tower encounters

[misty acorn]

Yeah that's it lol

[wicked sandal]

cause player kills + follower kills

more enemies killed per turn than just hydrus player dmg

[misty acorn]

Plus dragon immunity

I had the same skin for hydrus and base, forgot which one I was using and nidhogs smacked me good lol

Odie did say he was considering bb2, maybe it's a change in prep for that. Also, whenever he announces changes he gets blasted so it's easier this way lol

The celestials are supposed to be sidegrades, a buff to base and auriga make it feel more like that

[manic nimbus]

Agreed

[misty acorn]

It is good off the bat and requires less managing of hp and stuff, so maybe it's more balanced for a side grade now

Oh well, we can wait and see if it gets commented on

[grim whale]

Ok I just figured out that the Dragon slayer passive wasn't charged

If you add the x1.2 bonus then it's coherent

But the dex is still very low

[misty acorn]

THANK YOU!

but i thought it didnt count in pvp

We can wait for confirmation lol

[grim whale]

That what I thought also

[rough lotus]

Are the Dex bonds good now?

[gentle wolf]

Define "good". Unless you build Dex I don't really see the point. Using all Phoenician beta gear, BeoA only gets about +300 from any of these Animal based followers.

[vivid breach]

Can we get some kind of confirmation on if hydrus nerfs were intentional or not? Crit nerds are gonna hurt it doesn't need a double nerf lol

[rough lotus]

Like dorito passive good.

Otherwise I don't see any benefit in Dex for beo if the bond does not give a new Dex passive

[summer gulch]

So he can stop missing basic monsters

I've missed so many mimics today trying to breaststrike

[rough lotus]

Or idk just delete Dex bond because it will bad for the pet who gets it

[gentle wolf]

I wouldn't say it's bad, because Dex does help pets hit, it's just... There are so many pets that have it, and I feel like they could have more than just Earth Res and some attack.

[rough lotus]

If they put all that into bond 1 and 2; and bond 3 is dorito passive would it be decent?

[gentle wolf]

I think Dorito should stay over there with the stabby thieves and the Dex followers get their own thing lol
Besides the upper limit of the Dorado passive is like 3000 Dex, the Valhallas need more than Dex.

[rough lotus]

I don't see the Dex bond giving anything useful for the Beo

Unless it adds a reason for Dex to be useful

[gentle wolf]

Animal Dex rework suggestion:

Bond level 1: Bonded Attack 10%
Bond level 2: Bonded Dex 15%
Bond level 3: Bonded Attack 12%, Bonded Dex 15%
+Ability Speed III (Would've said Speed II, but I don't think it exists)

[rough lotus]

That means Dex is tied with attack (no Dex and Magic) and there is some bonds that give more atttack too

[gentle wolf]

BeoA with the flat 12% enhanced bonds would be about 25% attack to pet, 34% Dex from pet.

[rough lotus]

Why not attack and magic?

[gentle wolf]

Probably a good 80-90% of the Animal family are primarily physical skill based.

[rough lotus]

👍

I just don't see for example Fenrir giving any benefit from Dex

[gentle wolf]

Well, Fenrir's (pet) base Dex at lv250 is 444.
Having Dex on gear as a Beo and 12% (not 22% I need to fix that above) more from BeoA brings Fenrir up to 800-900+ using Phoenician gear (GF Beta gear, no adorns in armor).

Should definitely miss less.

[summer gulch]

I am so excited for beo changes bros.

I hear it's been a big boost to tower farming

[wicked sandal]

Speed 3 is a temp buff which will be very annoying for base and auriga, cause folllowers will stop attacking to recast it whenever it drops

[gentle wolf]

Yeah, I had a ton of ideas while I was trying to sleep, but it's going to basically tweak the entire current system. It's gonna take me a bit to mod my entire spreadsheet for this

[gentle wolf]

In summary, I'm going to respect the Family system, but add a Role layer to it and create a middle ground between the two. Taking my "Animal Dex" suggestion and modifying it to fit other roles.

[rough lotus]

If you look at crit bird fjalar it got an insane specific bond for it. While Fenrir has nothing to do with Dex. And Fenrir is a much rarer pet than the crit bird fjalar.

Regarding missing I never seen Fenrir miss, unless against Fallen Realmshifter low hp and even then it's rare which is great.

Fjalar misses a lot against just normal raid bosses. And this is already with his Dex up. So if anything it would make more sense to have Fjalar with Dex since he has already something to do with Dex thematic plus more benefit than Fenrir.

[gentle wolf]

All the "Animals" seem to have Dex, so I'm taking that into view, but I don't want to radically alter Fjarl too much as it's pretty solid right now in terms of damage.

[last bane]

Chimera also can get much better BB's

[rough lotus]

I think Fenrir and Fey Chimera share a similar role of "multi attacker" where shared attack would be the most important stat as low attack would mean 0 damage. While other pets with lesser attack can still do damage due higher penetration of single skills.

Maybe with the highest bonded attack values it could compete with Fjalar.

[gentle wolf]

OK ladies and gents, I have the Animal Family done for part of my rework suggestion, this will lay the foundation for the rest of the families as I work on them this week/weekend because release is supposed to be next week.
With respect to the original vision of the Dev team, I have fused the idea of Family line and Roles for the followers, adding another layer but keeping some familiarity. I'm a bit nervous, but let me hear your thoughts.

Each level of BB follows a cadence of:

Level 1: Role
Level 2: Family
Level 3: Family & Role
+Abilities 1 Family, 1 Role

There are some abilities that overlap a little, with some of the DexUp skills they have, but it's minor.

There's literally only one "Debuff" and "Guardian" Role that I could apply in Animals, and there's other roles I need to flesh out with respect to other followers. Please excuse any typos (Looking right at "Famile" in the beginning 🥲)

[stoic epoch]

Patch is next week, there may not be time to mage big changes left

Just saying

[polar locust]

fr

[last bane]

Looks like we lost this battle :)

[sick tinsel]

We can still work on Bestial Bonds after the release

The patch should be bonus for most of things related to Beowulf

Bestial Bonds needs to be upgraded, but between Ornaversary, Other Realms, Orn Event, and my Real Life, its hard to be here for the Beta Testing / Proposal

[misty acorn]

Giving buffs to offensive pets like chimera etc is a terrible idea, I'm sorry but please no

Why would fjalar need speed and howl of the wild

Even more wasted turns

Why wyvern speed and how of the wild? They do the same thing? I'm so confused man

In practice giving buffs to pets make them almost completely useless for towers and pvp. It's just not practical

Every tower floor you sit and wait while they use their current buffs and then bond buffs on top, towers would take hours. Pvp you'd die before they finish buffing. It will just frustrate people

[rough lotus]

Fjalar is too strong compared to Fenrir and Chimera and others

[misty acorn]

They do different things

The pets you added to that list were already working, and those changes would just make them tedious as hell to use in every situation

Fjalar big normal damage and crits
Fenrir, atk^^ and heals
Chimera single hit damage good for getting through armor, gives berserk, does dragon damage, can crit.
Fey chim, multi hits + the above

[rough lotus]

But the bigger problem is the useless Dex on these pets and that remained.

[rocky rivet]

Can we boost dex without adding a new pet skill?

[sick tinsel]

Bonded Dex

[gentle wolf]

@stoic epoch
Patch is next week, there may not be time to make big changes left
@polar locust
fr
@last bane
Looks like we lost this battle :)

Valid responses, but:
@sick tinsel
We can still work on Bestial Bonds after the release

Yes, absolutely.

@misty acorn
Giving buffs to offensive pets like chimera etc is a terrible idea, I'm sorry but please no

What if we could choose when to Activate their skills? Or narrow it down to one skill, make the other passive, possibly at the start of battle maybe.

Why wyvern speed and how of the wild? They do the same thing? I'm so confused man

Yeah, it's an iterative process, and I realized the overlap. So I agree, but I tried to stick with the original design.

The pets you added to that list were already working, and those changes would just make them tedious as hell to use in every situation

+Ability seems to be causing the most issues, since BB was introduced, but it hits certain pets harder than others.

@rough lotus
But the bigger problem is the useless Dex on these pets and that remained.

I kept the Dex since Odie left it there, maybe part of a thematic design based on nature, they all had Earth Res and Dex; so I tried to keep that theme alive.

@rocky rivet
Can we boost dex without adding a new pet skill?

Sure we can, but it probably needs to be something less intrusive than an extra skill.

Phew.

Someone remind me how the T.Mag, Poisoned etc passives in the first beta release of BB worked; was it at the start of battle or per turn?

Maybe the Atk and Dex boost can work in that fashion so it's not clogging up the move pool.

Also, thank you @warm finch ♥️

[rough lotus]

I don't like that Dex is in animals thematically. I can understand earth Res but Dex? It would make more sense thematically that Dex is on birds, specially Fjalar which has Dex buffs.

At this point is better to replace Dex with Bonded Attack

[polar cypress]

I cannot understand earth thematically too

[gentle wolf]

I did move the Earth Res to just "support" roles.

[gentle wolf]

It seems to be per turn.

[wicked sandal]

in first it was only at the start, now it's per turn

[gentle wolf]

OK so, with that knowledge should my suggested "Howl of the Wild" turn into a fully passive ability, but with T.Atk and T.Dex ?

[gentle wolf]

I'll reassess the table when I get home from work.

[gentle wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[last bane]

How long has there been no news in beta?
Is what we see now the final version?
Hydrus will remain unchanged?

[gentle wolf]

What if the reason that Hydrus stats look lower, is because they could be strongly considering adding BB2 to Hydrus?

Which Odie himself was considering.

[gentle wolf]

Alright, round 2: == THESE ARE SUGGESTIONS, not live changes. Please see the other pin for that 🙂 ==

Update: Fenrir has been changed to Physical role, suggested by RyuDouro. This change will reflect in a future update to the file.

[gentle wolf]

@warm finch Requesting pin removal, I have posted a new one.

[rough lotus]

Looks good but Fenrir shouldn't be an assassin because he can't crit.

Maybe Chimera can have that and it would be a nice difference from Fey Chimera.

And Fefnir gets your physical role and maybe that is decent.

Still not fjalar level but it is a start.

[gentle wolf]

Quadcut II, Omnistrikes II, and Osmostrikes II can't Crit? *for Fenrir

[rough lotus]

No but I can be blind. Someone more expert has to confirm that

Or if they crit it has a fix % which does not depend on other bonuses

[tulip tundra]

None of his skills can crit apart from him just attacking

[rough lotus]

Chimera on the other hand can crit so

Ashen Phoenix
Animal
Hybrid
10
Level 1: Bonded Attack 5%, Bonded Magic 5%
Level 2: Bonded Dex 10%, T. Atk + (5%), T. Mag + (5%)
Level 3: Bonded Dexterity (15%), Bonded Attack (10%), Bonded Magic (10%), T. Atk ++ (2%), T. Mag ++ (2%)

Bond 1 should be weaker for the hybrids