Valhallan Changes

[umbral glade]

Maybe add doom proc or star struck or something that is less commonly immuned by players

[blazing hull]

what i hope for is that tower bosses will lead to Odie to finally removing dot status immunities

[umbral glade]

I hope we got damage over time effects that do not scale with ememy max hp

But rather with your atk/mag

[blazing hull]

i class based on dots, with status based on stats and attacks that deal more damage on statused ennemies.
A dream that is completely irrelevant to the discussion (but imagine...)

[umbral glade]

Alchemist/Plaquedoctor was my goto for it

But yea - debuff bond could be a thing

[misty acorn]

Can this be pinned for a fix? Still using prism wall at low hp
Edit: I was told you mentioned prism wall looked at being removed already, so maybe this comment could be a reminder, my bad.

[gentle wolf]

Oh that's painful.

[misty acorn]

I don't know the command to pin

[gentle wolf]

I was just thinking the same thing

[polar cypress]

I don't think mortals can

Need a mod for that

[gentle wolf]

@warm finch Could you teach us the ways of the pin command?

[wicked sandal]

What I don't understand is why that one even happens

things like deific get recasted cause it grants ward turns, but prism walls only effect is the elemental walls

[misty acorn]

Fun fact he's been doing it since he got prism wall

[wicked sandal]

it shouldn't recast that once you have them up

[misty acorn]

A veeeeeeery long time ago

[gentle wolf]

Does it proc every wall 100%?

[misty acorn]

Yes

First turn basically you have wall

[gentle wolf]

Yeah, that's a AI bug.

Is that on GSA?

[misty acorn]

Fun fact before ai he used to use it non stop from the start lmao

Literally over and over

Nothing else

I think this is why I haven't focusdd on low tier pets bonds, there's t10 ones that don't get touched or noticed

[umbral glade]

yea mimics had the same problem with prism wall

#1097570738086621295 message

[gentle wolf]

My bad I meant BeoA earlier

Testing on a Phoenix raid, no buffs to influence AI, it only used prism once

[warm finch]

Using the bot is really simple. You just reply to a message and ping the bot. Here, I'll show you

[warm finch]

@warm finch 📌

[gentle wolf]

The Carlbot or something else?

[misty acorn]

📌

[round shore]

The John Egbot

[misty acorn]

Cool

[misty acorn]

Lol

[misty acorn]

@warm finch 📌

[misty acorn]

Lmao

[gentle wolf]

Well that's interesting

[misty acorn]

I thought it was an actual bot

Oh well, we got there

[round shore]

John may be an AI that is sufficiently indistinguishable from another person.

[misty acorn]

He must feel like a bot at times

[gentle wolf]

So far testing 'thulu with BeoA it's only used Prism once

[round shore]

Kinda like how I'm a dog typing on the internet, but nobody would know. 🐶

[misty acorn]

When you get low HP he uses it

[round shore]

Odie mentioned something about Prism Wall in this thread. Weeks ago.

this one, 2 weeks ago

[misty acorn]

Damn

Although it might be overlooked so maybe leave it as a reminder

[gentle wolf]

Ok, yeah when I redlined I see it

Weird

[umbral glade]

that prism wall comment was about the issue with the mimic bond, i dont think he was talking about the current pets

[wicked sandal]

on the mimics it was especially bad cause of their 100% buff rate

prism wall being recast when you already have all of its effects is a separate issue not related to bonds

[misty acorn]

Sweet 🙂

[polar cypress]

Is because it also gives ward

[misty acorn]

It uses it again at redline like a healing skill which makes it even more confusing lol

[umbral glade]

prism wall doesnt give ward turns

[polar cypress]

Oh mb

[gentle wolf]

Ok so the mimics don't have Prism Wall as their base kit, was it the original bond?

[umbral glade]

not the first, but one of em

[gentle wolf]

So it sounds like the skill itself needs to be looked at in how the follower AI uses it.

[grim whale]

Are pet AI working as intended or is there still some issues with some pet?

[umbral glade]

in regards to what

pets with prism wall seem to have some troubles

[last bane]

Was trying Pollux in horde dungeon by BeoA
He uses Freeze 90% of time, even under Skadi II
Annoying.

and Scruug hiting the Immunities while he have other elemental skills..

[south sleet]

so smart ai is only working for gsa huh

beoa not included

[round shore]

no, that's a different thing

aoe skills don't check solo immunities (or horde immunities)

not for GSA nor for +followerAI

GSA benefactor Ancient Jinn summons happily would use winter wind against dark pegasi 😅

[gentle wolf]

I can vouch for that

[misty acorn]

Skadi doesn't seem to work properly either

[south sleet]

so this is just a case of using the wrong pet for the situation then?

[misty acorn]

Apparently Gunnr and snotr make them use attack or spells more often, I tried those and some pets just don't care

Still use the wrong skill type with a gait and even spam buffs with skadi 2

Where with no call they don't spam buffs

[sick tinsel]

Well the followers looks the multiplier from both Att and Mag, and Gunnr (for example) affect by 1.5x Att and 0.1x Mag

But it will continue to use Mag if you have Mag and Mag to help that

[last totem]

There is not much talk about BeoH here, but it feels like Hydrus is getting the short end of the stick.
With the nerf to augments, and being a deticated crit based class, raid performance is reduced by about 40%. (For a class thats already on the lower end of the raid dmg scale)
And it seems Hydrus doesnt get a base stat increase opposing the stat table floating around since the start of the beta.
BB1 is doing nothing to compensate the losses in any way.
I strongly feel there should be some power compensation for BeoH, because right now it will be outperformed by BeoO even in the hybrid department (access to bb3 and redlining)
So the question is, is this intented and what should be the performance baseline?

For reference stat difference switching from BeoO beta vs live

[polar cypress]

I agree with your statement, also Hydrus skill is the only celestial passive that cuts DPS in half when triggered

Some classes get second chance for free or even a buff when it triggers (mages) Hydrus loses buffing power when it triggers

It's kinda lame

Live is the right picture? We lose stats on top of losing a lot of crit DMG?

Or is beoO that gets stats?

Losing stats when we are going to lose ~200 att/mag (even more factoring hm and the fact we have to replace some jocs) when slotting pinions sucks

[sick tinsel]

I won't slot Ashen Pinion, it's too detrimental

[sweet pollen]

Every beo variant get more stats in the beta

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1097599634672734349

[sick tinsel]

-40 stats is even more painful with Hybrid Monster III

[last totem]

BeoO base stats get increased with the adjustments, BeoH not it seems, which means lesser increase for BeoH switching from BeoO after balance (if it stays like this)

[ivory birch]

If Beo's stats are increased, then Beo/H's will as well unless the stat multiplier for Hydrus is purposefully reduced. celestial classes simply have a stat multiplier to the original class' stats (eg. 1.2x, 0.9x etc)

Hydrus' stats this beta have been increased

see the above linked thread for details/numbers

[last totem]

Well see the pics above, by your statement the %increase when switching should stay the same and its not 🤔

[polar cypress]

Well I guess is easy to verify

[ivory birch]

i'll double check for you to see if they've changed since initial beta. one moment

[ivory birch]

looks like the stat buffs for Beowulf have been reduced partially

which means for all of Beowulf, Beo/A, Beo/H

[polar cypress]

Which makes sense for bond beos maybe

But not for poor hydrus

[ivory birch]

well my point with ^ is that celestial stats aren't fine-tuned. it's reliant on the base class

[polar cypress]

Oooh

Ok

[ivory birch]

i'm not sure if just Beowulf's buff was reverted slightly, or if Hydrus' multipliers were changed as well

[polar cypress]

Wait

Summoner Hydrus is fine tuned

[ivory birch]

yes

well

no

GS/H's multipliers were changed specifically

it's shown in https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1097599634672734349

[polar cypress]

Yes what I was meaning

It wasn't a flat change to summoner, but specific to hydrus

[rugged glade]

Have you try with Fjalar as pet and Prom augments ? Since specifics effects on stuff is transferred to pet, maybe the bird's crit are improved with Prom too.
Else, what you recommend to help BeoH ?

[polar cypress]

So chance are that we are getting the same treatment on beoH 🥹

[ivory birch]

the same might have happened here. i don't know, and i would prefer to play tears of the kingdom over mulling through Orna's most convoluted (hybrid monster) class stat math

[last totem]

It looks like the multiplier is reduced as well then

[ivory birch]

my guess is that both of:

• Beowulf's stat multiplier
• Hydrus' base stat multiplier
  were reduced

[last totem]

Uhm BeoH doesnt use dmg pets 🤔

[ivory birch]

for.. some reason. Beowulf was deemed too strong? 😅

[ivory birch]

Beowulf Hydrus does mediocre follower damage compared to the two other Beowulf variants

you'd want to be comparing the sum of player, follower damage to that same sum on the two other variants

[polar cypress]

Yeah in the DMG calculation Hydrus pet DMG is comparable to pet DMG with heretic

[rugged glade]

Arf

[ivory birch]

seems like base Beowulf is (or could. i'm not sure) pulling ahead now due to player stat mult (1.5x battle scaling vs 1.2x starter and static), improved bond (bond3 vs bond1) and higher follower stat mults (2.25x battle scaling vs zero scaling)

i'm not sure if that's true (that's y'all's job), but yeah, Hydrus has lost a lot of what pulled it ahead

[ivory birch]

no, Hydrus' followers still have >2x the stats of an unboosted follower

[polar cypress]

Yeah which is nothing is the grand scheme of things

[ivory birch]

it's just that Beowulf and Beo/A have an additional 2.25x battle scaling

no, it's not nothing 😅

[polar cypress]

100+1 or 100+2 is not that different

[ivory birch]

what?

it would be 100 versus 210

lol

[polar cypress]

beoH does 100 times more DMG than pet, doubling peg DMG doesn't change numbers that much

[ivory birch]

i'm confused on what you're getting at

[polar cypress]

That double pet stats on beoH is negligible

Since is not a pet class, and ascension increases the gap even more on that

[ivory birch]

oh your point is player scaling vastly outpacing follower scaling

[polar cypress]

Yep, double pet stat is just flavour imho

But act rate is golden

[ivory birch]

it has some uses, but Hydrus' strong suit is player damage.. which its lost a lot of its edge to base beo in this patch

[polar cypress]

Definitely

[rugged glade]

So if I understand, BeoH is far less efficient since the nerf on Prom hands, and even less efficient with the reduced stats. Prom nerf is hitting all crit-based classes, let's say they are still very good and not as op as before Prom nerf.
My point is, if "just" Prom nerf hit so strong on BeoH, maybe his power came from broken gear instead of itself. So we should propose some ideas to give him, in order to make it strong by itself. Probably around the hybrid concept of the class

[last totem]

Back to the point, I think BeoH needs some form of improvement/compensation for the non class specific adjustments affecting it.

Maybe put him even more in the hybrid/player dmg role and change valhallan strength 2 from increased pet dmg to pet stats are transfered to the player?
Would fit the new BB (valhallan) mechanics, but from a different angle for BeoH

[polar cypress]

Reverse bonds

Pet stats -> player

[last totem]

Yes, something along those lines

[ivory birch]

the reasons Beo/H isn't as strong as it ""should"" be comparatively are:

• base Beowulf gaining so much player power (bonds, player stat passive that outscales Hydrus')
• base Deity being a better all-around class, esp. since it can use celestial lute... for some reason

[polar cypress]

beoH needs battle scaling

And maybe remove the crit focus, replacing it with even more base stats?

[ivory birch]

changing those two things would be good. improved Hydrus player power (ideally in a thematic way eg. follower stats -> player). maybe disallow base Deity to use valhallan stuff, so hybrid can be ""safely"" a base Beo/BeoH thing. that second bit seems like a bug anyways, seeing as Deity's celestials can't use val/summ items

[polar cypress]

No for some reason odie said is intended that base deity can use lute

[ivory birch]

Beo/H doesn't have any crit focus, unless you mean just recharge

[polar cypress]

Well recharge without redline=watch me crit

[ivory birch]

that seems wrong. deity has always been a better hybrid user, and that certainly has not changed. it's also extremely unclear how/why Deity can but Deity's celestials cannot 🤷

[polar cypress]

I agree with you

[ivory birch]

that's literally every class that wants to do player damage. crits are better than non-crits -- it's not a Hydrus "focus"

[polar cypress]

Anyway probably I'll just bite the bullet and wait the next balance patch, Hydrus won't be so terrible even after nerfs

[ivory birch]

if Hydrus is to be a dedicated damage class, then giving it a crit focus would be a quick and easy fix. increase its crit mult to that of Realm/Heretic. improving its base stats through thematic means is also pretty neat, but can be gimmicky

[polar cypress]

Meanwhile we will come up with better suggestion

[rugged glade]

Maybe we could propose a change in BeoH passives then. But if we wanted to make him follow other Beo lines, it would mean bringing redline to BeoH

[ivory birch]

I will say I'd been playing a lot of Beo/H for most content, particularly hordes, and swapping to base Deity was a drop in improvement

[polar cypress]

I do horde beoH, but I'm not sure is more efficient than deity

[ivory birch]

in my experience it's outright worse

[polar cypress]

I do that just because I'm lazy and I'm ascending beo more than deity

[ivory birch]

in both power (damage, efficiency) and ease of use (statuses. yay steadfast!)

[polar cypress]

Ok you are right on that

[ivory birch]

this may be pessimistic, but I don't see how Beo/H is going to be the Hybrid class if base Deity is going to also have access to val equipment. there aren't and cannot be any targetted gear improvements for Hybrid because Deity has always used it better than the Beowulf line 😅

Hydrus is good for frontloaded power, but the scaling isn't there compared to base Beo or base Deity. great for turn 1/2, less great beyond that

[polar cypress]

Yep, the usecase I see for beoH currently is farming easy kingdom rsids

World raids, anything with blueline is outright better

Since you can start at ~40% stat bonus on vanilla deity, even more on heretic and deity ara

[warm finch]

I don't think it'd be unreasonable to ask for a new valhallan dissonance that only buffs the player tbh

Considering that beo got that power spike and hydrus did not, despite being the self centered variant

[ivory birch]

It's good that base Beowulf finally got player stat scaling. it badly needed it. that happening has severely weakened Hydrus' advantages though

[warm finch]

Absolutely.

[ivory birch]

point being, don't take any of this as reasons to nerf base Beo's new player stats. it just highlights how brittle Hydrus' advantages were

[polar cypress]

I'd say:

• remove pet bonus on beoH
• some kind pet stat -> player on beoH
• remove BB 1 (nothing fancy there) on beoH
• different Hydrus passive

[ivory birch]

a new dissonance that doesn't buff the follower (important here in a second), but instead transffered a significant portion (eg. 50%) of follower stats (which include att, mag, and hidden ward, dex) to the player would be interesting. there's be reason to use +pet stat gear on Hydrus to gain more player power that way. having no innately high (eg. the curr 110%) pet stat bonus would let gear like +15%, +20% etc actually do stuff

[polar cypress]

But pet stat -> beoH is going to be underwhelming

This is base phoenix stats

50% ~1k

Less than dragon killing passive

[south sleet]

beo/beoA player stat boost should only be def/res imo

at least beoA

[ivory birch]

some version of dissonance that reads: Your attacks may cause blight, and may be critical more often. Your follower acts more often and shares much of its stats with you. would be good imo

curr. hydrus passive for reference

[rugged glade]

Damage buff on Beo ans BeoA was very welcome

[rugged glade]

If it's placed before the dragon killing boost ? Like (player stats + 50% pet stats) * 20%

[wicked sandal]

Looks like base and auriga went up compared to live while hydrus didnt/got lowered? Idk math is hard, and it doesnt help that i cant compare under same circumstances atm

Cause location im currently at on live its a controlled area (5% boost) on beta its OT (10%)

Base, mirror has noticeably higher stats

Hydrus, lower hp on beta

[misty acorn]

Comparing og vs Hydrus with same items Hydrus stats are higher, and no messing around with redlining and stuff, it's still stronger and faster. When you redline base it gets close... Then there's pet damage on top though.

I use hands of selene over the prom hands

Did a quick test of damage in a raid, Hydrus still hits more than redlined beo (player damage only)

Oh I have phoenix as a pet

But if you add pet damage on top yeah Hydrus gets easily out classed. But the fact you don't have to manage hp, can crit recharge all you want and get more HP and stuff it's still good and potentially still faster at raiding

[ivory birch]

Hydrus has 1.5x att<->mag and 1.2x stats from the start
Base has 1.3x att<->mag and 1.5x stats via battle scaling

Selene hands are more effective (relatively speaking) on base than on hydrus

hybrid monster is weird math

[misty acorn]

I added a crowsong to boost the damage more

Identical gear

It's just ward gear with lute and crowsong as weapons not optimized for anything really

I'm not sure Hydrus needs a boost, but if you guys wanna ask or suggest buffs go crazy. I like the way it works currently, it's fast and powerful

Not having to lower hp or mana is one of my favorite things about it

[wicked sandal]

Last i checked hm3 was actually 40%, not 50

[misty acorn]

I definitely don't want redline on beoh, it's tedious and it's such a nice change to just start blasting and critting all you want and not worry about heals affecting damage

More crit, recharge, not worrying about hp, blight, and these stats give it an edge making it fast and tanky. I don't think it needs to be changed

Sure, base can do more damage once it gets low with pet included, but beoH is quicker off the bat and I like that

[wicked sandal]

Yeah if base can outdmg hydrus at 1hp good for them. Hydrus has decent power and comfort combined and ill take that over higher potential

[misty acorn]

Having raided a tonne with both, I'll be raiding with Hydrus over base any day

[tulip tundra]

Would you say that hydrus is more gear dependant than base

[misty acorn]

Even if it does more once redline, dude I'm done with the raid before you redline haha

I don't think I know what you mean, you could try raiding on base with bad gear but you'll die lmao

Typos for days

But if you get a hybrid weapon you can do good damage with Hydrus really easy

So probably not

And you can crit heal

So it's probably easier

[tulip tundra]

I mean does beo hydrus need near perfect gear to work or could you just slap some gear together and raid effectively

[misty acorn]

Probably about the same

If you have shit gear on beo youre relying on pet anyway

[ivory birch]

you need a good weapon, otherwise hydrus will just not work

otherwise it's similar

[wicked sandal]

Good weapons arent hard to come by

If you can unlock hydrus at all yiu can get celelute

[misty acorn]

Depends if you think a good weapon is harder to get than decent ward gear

It's not too crazy either way

With bad gear on base you won't even be able to redline and without a good weapon you'll be doing less on Hydrus so probably both just as bad, like all classes except gs lol

That can play naked

If I had to pick one for brand new 225 I'd pick Hydrus all day

[last totem]

I feel your AL plays a big part here.
Verse IV drops from ~1,5m to ~800k with the same setup/buffs comparing live and beta.
Thats why I would be interested where the baseline of raid performance is meant to be.

[misty acorn]

I mean it's the same though

I'm still comparing the two

With the same gear

Yeah the damage drop is sad, don't get me wrong, I will miss the old selene hands

I wish it didn't get nerfed as hard

But the crit augments are very overpowered so it was expected, I didn't expect the hands to get nerfed this much but it's not outrageous

[rugged glade]

Hm, it's seems logical that AL is very powerful on BeoH thanks to Hybrid Monster 🤔

[misty acorn]

Lol

Hold on

[wicked sandal]

Beo scales just as well with al as everyone else

[misty acorn]

It's the exact same

Look at the % difference

[rugged glade]

Yet, for now, the main idea is a dissonance giving pets stats to Beo, so it's fine with the no redline on BeoH ^^

[misty acorn]

Al doesn't make hyrdus better than base it's the exact same

[wicked sandal]

Only skills with better scaling are spiked shield and blood pact

[rugged glade]

Hydrus doesn't have a better Hybrid Monster ?

[misty acorn]

Honestly the way people play beo I doubt anyone's gonna even attack on base lol

[last totem]

Thats why I meantioned it, lower dmg means BeoH has to tank more dmg/big hits.
And correct me if I am wrong but other classes will still be able to hit dmg cap relatively easy

[wicked sandal]

It does, but hybrid monster doesnt change ascension scaling much at all

[misty acorn]

I had to convince people to use attack skills in a thread a while back and people called me crazy

[rugged glade]

Yes, we do attack ^^

[misty acorn]

Good 😊

It's the way

[rugged glade]

I really don't know about other classes, to be honest, but maybe Major could give you hints on this

[last totem]

Well thats another point that should imo change. BeoH is the hybrid dmg class, yet deals more dmg with realm strikes 2 for example than with Verse IV 🤷

[misty acorn]

They're completely different skills

Work in different ways

Need different gear

Hard to compare the two

[wicked sandal]

Verse 4 is a high res penetration elementless skill, compared to rs, a lower piercing but high dmg skill which deals phys or elemental dmg

[misty acorn]

This

[wicked sandal]

The use cases are entirely different

[misty acorn]

RS gonna do 0 against certain things

Attack stat only etc

It's just too different to compare, and both are good in different scenarios

[last totem]

The only scenario I have found where RS deals significantly less dmg is against low health/scaled stats amorri. Both skills used with hybrid setup/weapon.
I never had a case in pve yet where its 0ed

[umbral glade]

never faced a endless berserk dude in a few hundred depth

?

[last totem]

But well not really the point here I guess

[umbral glade]

you started that comparison lmao

[last totem]

Thats not a thing in HoA.
I am here because beta discussion on HoA discord is pretty much non existant 🙈

[misty acorn]

Id still take verse lol

[wicked sandal]

I use verse for towers, pvp, endless and sometimes raids if i get a t.mag3 from lugus

Though id probably chakram instead for raids if i had corvus

[misty acorn]

Id I'm gonna use redline and realmstrikes I might as well not be a Hydrus lol

[wicked sandal]

I also dont agree that hybrid skills should always be the best, being able to use any skill is a great benefit

I use verse, ultima, vesta2, sweep, dance, guarding 3, volley 1, and would use chakram if i had it

[misty acorn]

Bh is different and fun in good ways, if it was changed to redline and stuff it would be so similar to deity and it would be so boring

[wicked sandal]

Its neat

Oh yeah perfect shot too

[umbral glade]

or, you know, the high tenacity class

[misty acorn]

I'm not gonna try and get it buffed either that would be dirty lol

[wicked sandal]

I wouldnt mind a buff

But its not in a state where it needs one

Maybe a small base stat boost like base/auriga got

But the kit works well for what the class tries to do and i dont want any changes there

[misty acorn]

Since base can get quite close player stats wise when redlined it's possible it could use a small stat boost, but the mechanics are so good as they are and have a unique play style I really enjoy

It could get bb2

Id welcome that change

[rugged glade]

Ok so we have 2 proposals ?

• Transferring pets stats -> player stats with a passive
• BB2

[misty acorn]

Did you test it in the game and compare damage with good builds?

[polar cypress]

And also transform Hydrus passive to something else

That is the only celestial passive that has huge drawbacks

I'd rather not have second chance at that point, since I'm going to die anyway in couple of turns without phoenix

[misty acorn]

If you were doing a tower boss Hydrus would be sooo much quicker. Pets are so much weaker and it takes time to get redlined. In pvp, Hydrus performs a lot better, I don't think it needs a buff at all lol

[rugged glade]

Let's try to not, again, spam this thread with "this boost is so bad that I prefer have nothing" '^^

[misty acorn]

Base beo got a boost cause it needed help

[polar cypress]

You are comparing Hydrus to other beos

[rugged glade]

We done that too many time

[misty acorn]

You haven't even actually tested it though you just posted numbers without testing situations in game

[polar cypress]

I mean I'm stronger than a toddler, still I would lose to a person of my same age most probably

[misty acorn]

Cool story lol

[polar cypress]

In this case base beo is the toddler

So let's compare beoH with full grown classes

[misty acorn]

It's awesome 😎

Lol

Id still need double stats to reliable best gs tho

[polar cypress]

In PvP right?

[misty acorn]

Oh yes, sorry. I did mean pvp

[polar cypress]

Oh well I think that's shared among all classes

beoA and beoO might be better there due Cactus?

[misty acorn]

If they stack ward and stuff, you just don't do enough damage before they destroy you

It is kinda hard to test pvp in the beta cause there's not many good mirrors so we'll see once it goes live 🙂

Definitely shared among all class lol

[manic nimbus]

I am all up for Beo Hydrus getting a buff or some tweaks. As of now, we gain some base stats which don't really make much of a difference in raiding (as per my limited tests at least).

The (needed) hands balance affects every crit class as it should but Beo Hydrus damage is lower than the other t10 crit classes.

[manic nimbus]

Agreed. The "Hydrus" passive is a bit underwhelming. Works perhaps once on a fight and then you sre damage gimped for the rest of it

[polar cypress]

John Wick buff would be awesome

[manic nimbus]

Also, we should noy compare hydrus with base beo but with other t10 classes

[polar cypress]

Yep what I'm saying

[gentle wolf]

Beo was my original class before Summoner launched, so these changes will bring me back to my roots lol

[manic nimbus]

Supposedly hydrus lets go of pet-based playstyle and focus on player-based gameplay. Yes, it has a comfortable playstyle due to crit recharge, etc but I feel its not enough currently

[gentle wolf]

Although there are still bonds that need to be filled out.

[polar cypress]

Since beoH has more in common with an heretic or a deity than base beo

[manic nimbus]

Even realmshifter

[polar cypress]

Yeah

[last bane]

Agree, BeoH needs some boost

[manic nimbus]

And lets not forget hybrid builds are... Lacking. There are no questing hybrid weapons, no interesting hybrid gear, etc

[polar cypress]

Yes please give me questing lute

[manic nimbus]

No hybrid 2hcelestial weapon

Those things could open up a lot of building around hybrid

[polar cypress]

#💡│suggestions message

[manic nimbus]

But even then, beo hydrus needs some tweaks

[polar cypress]

I was thinking something about gaits

[last bane]

and too weak against status effects, he want to be more unstoppable in battle

[polar cypress]

Like increasing effects or decreasing maluses, since gaits are a beo thing

[manic nimbus]

While our dragon passive is cool, its not as good as other similar passives of the rest of the t10 classes

[polar cypress]

Or some weird bonus when using instruments

[manic nimbus]

We have no steadfast, a weird second chance passive. Only interesting ones we have going is the more pet act (which makes sense as we are still valhallan), recharge and hybrid monster

[last bane]

And Hybrid monster can be not only about Att/Mag, it also can work with def/res...

[gentle wolf]

Swansong is one the only two handed instrument right?

[last bane]

there are from titans new one

[polar cypress]

It's hybrid, but not instrument

Also aglovale is an hybrid 2h

[sick tinsel]

Instrument, yes
Hybrid weapon, no

You can add Palm Branch

[last bane]

https://playorna.com/codex/items/arisen-willow-branch/?lang=en

[manic nimbus]

My suggestions for tweaking hydrus would be something along the lines of:

• Add steadfast 1 at least. As a player based damage class, ita only fair.
• Dragon Slayer I -> Dragon Slayer II (a little boost on this passive could improve the class as a whole)
• A passive that increases dmg with hybrid skills?

[last bane]

anyway it looks good for BeoH

[polar cypress]

Until you get stunlocked by a raid

The bas thing about 2h is that they kinda need trevs

But Hydrus cannot afford to use double trev

[manic nimbus]

Yeah but if we got steadfast 1 for example could be interesting to build

[sick tinsel]

Use Hel's Garb

[polar cypress]

Yep that would solve one of main beoH issues

[polar cypress]

Stunlocked= cc-locked

[manic nimbus]

All in all, beo hydrus needs a bit of love unless NF thinks otherwise

[sick tinsel]

Meh, BeoH is already compared to Deity, getting Steadfast is kinda limit

[manic nimbus]

How so?

[sick tinsel]

in terms of stats

[manic nimbus]

Ah yeah

But our damage is so much lower

A deity with my the same AL as my beo would do much better in raiding

[sick tinsel]

You're comparing with Deity purplelining ?

[manic nimbus]

Im not saying it should be similar

[sick tinsel]

Yeah, but BeoH ain't designed for raids

[manic nimbus]

Oh?

[sick tinsel]

More PvP/World/Tower

is peak is at start of battles

Doesn't have scaling passive

[last bane]

BeoH can be strong through equipment!
But then he suffers greatly from freezing (etc.)
But you can collect equipment with immunity to frost!
But then there's almost no point in his damage...

[manic nimbus]

Neither is auriga so I guess we are doomed

Well, I raid with Hydrus exclusively and Id love to see a bit of love going into that department

[sick tinsel]

2m/turn isn't sufficient ?

[last bane]

just give him more chance to act under any stuns, it shouldn't be Steadfast

[manic nimbus]

On the beta, its a tad lower

[sick tinsel]

Well, my mirror is level 244, I'm asking an updated mirrorring

That's live

Atlas is my favorite pet for raiding for now

Berserk + Strong Def/Res + upkeeping my ward

Casting DC ain't a problem since you don't redline

[last bane]

as BeoH or BeoA?

[sick tinsel]

BeoH

Towerfall is multi-elemental

and doesn't ignore resistances/immunities

So it sucks

Sorry Odie

[manic nimbus]

Thats pretty cool

[sick tinsel]

But truth hurts

[manic nimbus]

Ive been using a magic chakram fast raiding build

Only basic buffs and go

[sick tinsel]

Magic Chakram = Realmstrikes

but using magic stat

[manic nimbus]

Yeah same damage, less ways to increase damage with affinities etc

But its comfy

For beguiled farm, Im using realmstrikes2, arcane book with arcane cele lute

[last bane]

anyway after patch Prometeus Crit would be nerfed...

[manic nimbus]

Yeah, I think I lose around 200-400k damage

I can live with the prom hands balance but I really want the Hydrus passive to be something with more OOMPH 😛

[sick tinsel]

Fist thing, Hydrus must be reworked or just changed to Second Chance

[manic nimbus]

Must agree. Personally, id transform it to second chance and reimagine Hydrus

[last bane]

i was thinking about using Lost Art as offhand...but in sounds weird

[manic nimbus]

I remember a suggestion that was something along the lines of: 100% chance, pet dies, you get a zerk

Seems fun

[sick tinsel]

Well Hydrus :
Bonded Follower Stats > Player Stats
How much % ? Dunno

[manic nimbus]

That seems fun. Follower stats are super weird tho arent they?

[sick tinsel]

Depends which

[manic nimbus]

That seems very interesting as it could open up new use of followers for hydrus

Bestial Bonds for Auriga.
Personal Bonds for Hydrus 🤣

[last bane]

Hydrus passive is too weak, i agree
it needs some improvements

[sick tinsel]

Pet stats might be very interesting on 2-Handed

[manic nimbus]

Tell me more, Im interested

👀

[sick tinsel]

Well

Symbol of Doom = +2% Pet Stat

Pet Stat converted to Player Stat

sooooo

[manic nimbus]

I see

Goat eyes would be useful

No maluses

[last bane]

why only for 2H?

[sick tinsel]

More Adorns

[manic nimbus]

Because of the slots

[sick tinsel]

Unless you use 2x 1H weapons

Pet Stats aren't reduced

So, even more stats

Duelist is da way

[manic nimbus]

Nooo, i must be forever oracle due to laziness

[sick tinsel]

You too doesn't like to switch Spec

[manic nimbus]

I must confess swapping from or to oracle annoys me

[last bane]

12 slots at GF
it looks better than 2H?

[sick tinsel]

48% pet stats with a second

But it's not hybrid

[manic nimbus]

I wonder whats Odies opinion on hydrus current state

And if NF is open to some tweakin'

I was promised a +cute stat on celestial lute by Odie himself several weeks ago 😛

[last bane]

They say they always read
But as we can see, they almost never comment ..

[manic nimbus]

THE EVIDENCE

[gentle wolf]

Cute chance? LOL

New debuff: Infatuated; works similar to lulled and confused combined.

[summer gulch]

That's just charmed

Lulled

Yea

[gentle wolf]

But on a serious note, about the "reverse bonds" mentioned earlier. Aside from Attack and Magic I'm not sure how much impact that would have for low AL players.

[summer gulch]

Anyway I feel on release beoH was de way now beoA is getting so much love beoH is showing his weakness more profoundly

[manic nimbus]

While that could be interesting, Id rather not see another bond type mechanic. I feel a tweak on the dragonslayer passive and some work around on the rest of the passives should be enough

[gentle wolf]

What about the Hydrus passive itself, once the pet falls, that's kind of the end of the line. What if it granted you like 50% of the Def/Res of the follower, with a chance every turn for the follower to revive.

[manic nimbus]

I think it'd be cool if it had the same chance as second chance to proc and it'd grant you a "valhallan zerk" (increased atk/mag/def/res)

[gentle wolf]

Hydrus - Valhallan Vengeance
Your follower has blocked a fatal blow for you and has gone unconscious, you are filled with fury until your follower revives, greatly bolstering defenses for survival.

[summer gulch]

I like this

[hasty knoll]

re: hydrus. a couple things. stay tuned tomorrow

i'm open to BB2, but let's hold off on the topic for now.

for the patch to go live, what are the absolute "must" tweaks changes for Bestial Bonds that need to happen for this community to be happy? do we have a list?

[sick tinsel]

The list of all actual BBs are pinned

For the list of change ... Well ...work in progress

[sick tinsel]

Ah yes I remember : an ABSOLUTE "MUST" tweak -> Bonded Ability
Very foggy concept, very randomly used, etc ...

I will try to summarize every BBs soon

[umbral glade]

not a list but on top of my head:

• Ward bond is super bad

[sick tinsel]

Well I'm not fan of Bonded Stats Followers TO Players

[hasty knoll]

bad as in...needs buff? shouldn't exist? let's try to be clear 🙂

[sick tinsel]

Well like Bonded Ability, we don't know the stats of Follower, so we don't know how much it affect us

Bonded Ability, we don't know their power, their effects, how we can trigger it or not

For now we can see Attack and Magic stats for Follower

Bonded Def, Res, Ward, Mana, HP are abstract

[umbral glade]

if that was a response to the ward bond: yes it needs a buff or a different mechanic.
Its currently like 1k ward on a char with 150k ward.
Flat amount of ward will never be useful to both the 20k ward and the 200k ward player unless its a crazy big number

[summer gulch]

Make bonds have more % for beoH so they can benefit from bond 1 and 2 a lot more than beoA

That's something I'd be down for

BeoA can have b3 and ability

[hasty knoll]

bond 1 is accessible outside of beo, so that wouldn't be ideal. we'd want BB2 at least

[summer gulch]

Oh, I forgot

[umbral glade]

i am guessing the 2% chance to poison yourself on the mimic bond is here to stay? I get the thematic choice but its really unfun when redlining with TMM

[summer gulch]

Make skill: absorb all dots for when the skills buff ends and take it all at once

(Does not affect turn skip status)

[warm finch]

From what I've seen of the numbers, the ward bond could likely work as a flat multiplier to the player's ward, like other ward sources, and it'd still not be broken

[umbral glade]

yea a flat number as its currently is impossible to get right for both early t10 and t11 players

[summer gulch]

Suddenly had 100k extra ward from flat buffs

Which I mean, I'd like that, but that can be incredibly unbalanced

[umbral glade]

if its 20k so it feels decent on a 200k player it would double the ward of lvl 228 player

the level 1 bond "animal protection: 30%" could need a tooltip

[summer gulch]

Definitely, cus from this statement I read it as either

Pet block chance

Or reduced dmg from animals

[umbral glade]

Boulder Toss still not seem to work

unless it has a condition to be used that i dont have

last time i checked, the arch alchemy bond from the titans did not work

the tooltip when clicking on the bestial bonds icon after swapping pets is still very delayed for it updating after swapping pets

and atleast for me, the icon on said tooltip is bugged and shows only a error

[round shore]

make sure your client is updated, in case that's an issue

[umbral glade]

i checked before writing that, there is no update in the playstore

well, ill check again later for "absolute "must" tweaks changes for Bestial Bonds" got some rl stuff for a hot minute

[warm finch]

Try making a big chunky message so I can throw a good ol 📌 at it

[last bane]

so maybe BeoH deserves 2 BBs?

[hasty knoll]

#1097570738086621295 message

[gentle wolf]

It's a heavy work day for me, so I'm not sure I can get all my thoughts out today. Happy to get Hydrus information tomorrow

I was thinking about making a public spreadsheet with all the bonds, but that might take a bit.

I agree that a flat Ward % (like gear) for the bonded ward might be more beneficial, but not so high that it's crazy.

That could help a tiny bit with gear choices, possibly putting on more offense armor piece while the pet ward % semi fills that missing ward gap

It would be about, what 16% ward if BB3 bonds were converted?

[polar cypress]

Is questing lute part of the beoH announcement?

[polar locust]

Pleaseee

[rough lotus]

I think this is the worst one

[polar cypress]

I think is to balance the fact is on the best pet

Well best pet for everyone but beo

[dawn forge]

Dex is still pretty massive though, especially for Endlesses

[polar cypress]

But changing bonds on phoenix could be the buff Hydrus needs

[dawn forge]

Cough cough In my opinion

[polar cypress]

Uh right

Maybe just swapping earth res for something

[gentle wolf]

162 followers just in the beta bestiary... Oi

[umbral glade]

180ish in total

[sweet pollen]

Should be 183

[gentle wolf]

The dragon codex pets aren't in just yet.

[wicked sandal]

you can have more than one steward pet

I have two golems

[sweet pollen]

You cant anymore tho

Anyway, this is offtopic

[polar cypress]

I was bored, my first meh tentative of creating a sprite

Questing lute

[manic nimbus]

STOP, IM DROOLING ALREADY

Im hyped

[misty acorn]

Hi Odie! Oh, Id still like to test the Draconian pets if possible! I made a suggestion for the ward bond (since getting ward from the follower didn't give you much) and that was absorption %. Not 8%, maybe 2, 3 or 4% but it would be more interesting than flat ward %. Yeah 🙂 whatever works. I like that questing lute sprite, I went and upvoted your suggestion

I love how beoH currently plays, im staying tuned for tomorrow

Ive tested basically every pet t9+ and have no other suggestions. Boulder toss doesnt seem to work and Skadi 2 made gymir spam a ward skill, so that could be a potential bug. Oh and the prism wall thing issue got pinned too.

[vivid breach]

I think the bestial bonds change is really good, could maybe just use a tweak in numbers to make it a little stronger/more impactful

Redline passive feels really weird. The only time I use it is in raids or endless, and after initially setting up I spend the rest of the time spamming DC or repairing ward. Why not just make redline a bit more powerful for the pet instead?

[round shore]

re:redline change, have you tried beo in endless?

[vivid breach]

With the change? No.

[umbral glade]

you dont redline or atleast low hp in boss horde?

[round shore]

1.5x def/res is super relevant there

[vivid breach]

Only in BG and roost, and it's not really necessary just faster

[vivid breach]

That may be but endless is the least rewarding content in the game

[umbral glade]

wat?

from an enjoyment perspective maybe

but its legit the best exp/orns rewards in thr game

[vivid breach]

You can get tons and tons of orns from hard mode dungeons as well, plus way better mats, plus rank

Orns are not really an issue post t10

After 250 endless is just if you're desperate for orns and don't have access to many dungeons

[gentle wolf]

So I have 170 screenshots of followers so far for later, for the spreadsheet.

[umbral glade]

time to add 1% gold gained to every follower

[gentle wolf]

All the beta bestiary, +Steward, and Olympians

Ok, so I need the Giants

[gentle wolf]

Getting through it lol

[gentle wolf]

Follower Beastial Bond Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q5nwTwVMj49K-oL5CmEOi4lmkHEKmjvDtZYhwfIpXWc/edit?usp=drivesdk

[gentle wolf]

<@&448920498387288094> May I have a pin? I can't seem to get the self-pin to work.

[gentle wolf]

Many thanks.

[gentle wolf]

Well, that was fun. Just @ me if I need to fix anything etc.

If anyone wants to filter the list, you can use a Temporary Filter only you can see, since it's in view only mode:

Have fun, I'm gonna take a break for the night.

[stoic epoch]

Before and after pics of me with and without an Ortanite Golem.

There's the passives currently

16% bonded ward nets me 457 ward

Now, it also gives me just shy of 900 defense and resistance, which is nice

But 457 ward is extremely underwhelming

I'd trade the 2 ward turns for some sort of low ward regen . . . Let's say 2 or 3%.

Buff the bonded ward to something meaningful

And suddenly you create a poor man's gilga just by equipping a golem

[stoic epoch]

Fjalar and Lindy feel very strong after their buffs and the work put into their bonds.

Gazers having 10% View Distance is nice.

The bond system paves the way for increased pet choice diversity in the future, which is a positive thing.

From a BeoO perspective I can't think of anything else I want right now . . . . besides bug fixes for the stuff that's not working, like Boulder Toss.

Maybe change Towerfall on the Olympian pets to be non elemental damage so we can use them for raiding?

Even then, I can't ever imagine using a giant pet, or a human pet, or anything other than Lindy, Fjalar, the Cactus, or Ymir . . . . so I guess fixing Boulder Toss may not be super high priority.

[warm finch]

The bot only works if it is not asleep :p

[grim whale]

What is the effect of arch alchemy?

[wicked sandal]

Random material drops if you kill enemies in open world

[grim whale]

Oh nice

[blazing hull]

John became mod roughly at the same time ChatGPT was released to the world. Coincidence ?

[misty acorn]

Lmao

[warm finch]

I cannot confirm or deny this.

[gentle wolf]

I had a feeling about that.

[gentle wolf]

We need to attempt to gather our thoughts

Bonded Ward is one, so far it's between being Ward % or Ward Absorption

[polar cypress]

Uh I read that message as "we are going to announce something about Hydrus tomorrow"

[gentle wolf]

Well, the 2nd part.

[umbral glade]

the announcement: we will remove DC from phoenix, gl hf

[polar cypress]

Lol

Remove DC from phoenix and add it as bb3

Btw removing DC for phoenix might improve pet variety (or maybe not everyone would rollback to chimera)

[south sleet]

yeah everyone will just chim

with occasional atlas

or the white polly faction pet

[gentle wolf]

One thing that did bother me when building the spreadsheet is that all Dragons, no matter what element gives BB1 Lightning Res 20%

What about Dragon Protection 20%, reduced damage from Dragons?

[blazing hull]

man what did you just do ! run for your like, realmshifters and heretics are coming for you !

[gentle wolf]

Also, there's only one "Ancient" follower which is the Ancient Jinn himself, respectively, however couldn't this apply to Cthulhu, or the Scruggs?

[sick tinsel]

I like the idea for Mythological/Godlike Followers
But then what the Pheonix should do ?
Only Beowulf / Beowulf Auriga could have access to DC through pets ?

[blazing hull]

phoenix now give all , all added as Lv3 bond

[sick tinsel]

all is very weak

[blazing hull]

25% all stat is not weak at all. It's all triple up which is too strong

[sick tinsel]

Pheonix reduced at doing Realmshift

[blazing hull]

yes, but it stack with realmshift, which make it quite good.

and stacking both for beo and auriga will help with its low def

almost permanent 25% stats + almost permanent ward sound balanced with chim zerk. much more than permanent 100% stats that is

[sick tinsel]

Atlas gives Zerk, perma ward + regen ward, T.Def++/+++ and T.Res++/+++

[blazing hull]

at the cost of having low rates. if phoenix loses DC, it would be good to boost the rates at the same time to balance that.

[sick tinsel]

What's the point of high rate long lasting buff ?

[blazing hull]

not sure all+ can be considered a long lasting buff

all+++ for sure but all+ drop pretty fast

[sick tinsel]

My dc often last 2-3 turns, I don't call it long

[blazing hull]

and high proc rate gives you the opportunity to use other things than blackened eyes

2-3 turns for DC is the minimum. it can last longer. all+ can drop instantly

[rugged glade]

Removing or nerfing DC on Phénix shouldn't be discussed here. It's a nerf hitting all classes, not only ours

[blazing hull]

what to put in bestial bond is literally the goal of this topic.

[south sleet]

just give phoenix a buff duration bb3

to compensate for the nerf

[rugged glade]

Yeah, it is, but removing existing feature used by like 90% of the T10 player-base is not

[umbral glade]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OrnaRPG/comments/13k1pyl/updates_on_the_h1_balance_mechanics_patch/

"With these conversations in mind, we’ve decided to defer any augment changes for a full augment look-over, to happen in the future."

This patch is now slated for:

Hero of Aethric - Monday May 29th, 2023

Orna: The GPS RPG - Wednesday May 31st, 2023

`Valhallan Classline

[PvE/PvP] Beowulf: All stats slighty increased, Recharge passive removed
[PvE/PvP] Beowulf: Valhallan Dissonance now affects both the player and follower
[PvE/PvP] All Valhallan classes now have minor built-in follower AI bonuses, allowing followers to avoid using skills that may hit elemental immunities, etc
[PvE/PvP] When under an AI bonus, followers will now be considerate of offensive buffs when choosing a skill to use
[PvE/PvP] When under an AI bonus, followers will now prioritize dealing damage when opponent HP is low
[PvE/PvP] Valhallan classes: new passive, Bestial Bonds. The monster type of a follower now gives a variety of additional stats and passive effects
[PvE/PvP] Followers are now affected by your faction bonus
`

[last bane]

No news about BeoH

[umbral glade]

both celestial augment delay and "Additionally, this patch also included a adjustment to Ultima’s elemental gear interactions. We’ve decided to remove this change from the patch as well."

is something that ebenefits hydrus

but yea, no direct tweaks as far as i can tell

[polar cypress]

Prom hands not being nerfed is already s good news

[last bane]

would be, but not so soon

[sick tinsel]

Odie planned to release Bestial Bonds in the next patch

Meaning we have 2 weeks to make them better than they are now

[umbral glade]

thet get to suggesting meaningful changes

[last bane]

we can't make them better, only Odie can .-.

[umbral glade]

looking at the beta, lots of things suggested here are in the game

so saying we can't do anything is not true

[sick tinsel]

We are painters, Odie is the merchant

[rocky rivet]

do we have any useable magic aoe pets yet?

[umbral glade]

some are close

[sick tinsel]

Ancient Jinn

Throught BBs

[rocky rivet]

would love to have a magic fey cactus alternative

[umbral glade]

Fey Dragon

and that gnome thing

Amadan

but no very consistent t10 pert

[polar cypress]

The gnome thing needs need a T10 version

Even with bonds stats are low🥲

[rocky rivet]

shall we add that to the wishlist? 😁

[umbral glade]

it would be nice, but we would need a mage dance/pavane user

since just having a, for example, lightning dmg user

would get immune'd to often

physical (element) magic (stat) dmg would be okay i guess

a non split dmg aoe pet in general would be great

[rocky rivet]

Coral Varmint could be the magic aoe follower. it fits the monster's theme. and Coral Beast/Serpent could replace it as the physical damage BB follower

[last bane]

I would like to hear Odie's vision of the concepts of each class and their future..

[summer gulch]

Fey dragons spells don't split aoe in beta right?

A high hp summoner or ward up summoner kills me like 3/5ths of the time. split aoe is a real trouble and with ai I can't simply target the summoner with single target pets

So if I can mega boost aoe so spliting dmg doesn't matter or find a good non split aoe skill this would help

[blazing hull]

I may be wrong but everything split except mage's dance/pavane and sweep.

[mossy agate]

Perfect Shot looks like the ultimate Beo Summoner counter

[summer gulch]

Oh it pens through block too? I thought it only applied battalion.

Makes sense it would though, why just nerf summoner

[wicked sandal]

Perfect shot has pretty low damage but if the summoner isn't geared towards hp+ward it might be useful

[mossy agate]

Swash Perfect Shot

[summer gulch]

I had some perfshots hit me decently hard I won't lie

[wicked sandal]

I use it in towers often, it's like 30k crits compared to verse 4's almost 200k

[summer gulch]

But that's prolly bc I'm a baldr gear user

[umbral glade]

pet targets the hydra with perfect shot 3 times

[summer gulch]

Odie PLEASE let us beos mark in pvp

Or anywhere really

I just want the ability to focus my pet 😭

[last bane]

[PvE/PvP] When under an AI bonus, followers will now prioritize dealing damage when opponent HP is low
Who'll have less HP: GS or his Hydra?

[summer gulch]

That's a good ai change

Odie praise

But

Yea it may sometimes backfire

Like is it % priority based? If hydra is slightly dmg but summoner is full hp will I target hydra?

If summoner has lower max hp; will he be be the priority?

[gentle wolf]

The idea of marks can be put into a suggestion, I would vote on that

[umbral glade]

been suggested before, ive also suggest it to be part of a tamer passive that makes pets follow your targeting

[summer gulch]

How well received?

If you know

[gentle wolf]

That would work great under Tamer, since it would be spec locked.

[umbral glade]

was positive but not overwhelming

[summer gulch]

Nice

[gentle wolf]

As amazing as that is, we should try to stay on track.

[summer gulch]

It's something a lot of beo want I feel

But yea beoH amirite?

I don't have opinions atm, but back on rails

[gentle wolf]

As much as I don't want to focus on the Meta, that might be where we need to start. Analyze the most used pets and their bonds.

See if they fit, what can be improved, +Abilities etc

Fjalar seems to be in a solid spot based on reactions I saw after the crit changes.

[summer gulch]

Fjalalalallalalalalalalalalalalr is solid from what I seen

[gentle wolf]

Based on initial feedback many of the popular pets lost their +Abilities.

[summer gulch]

And I'm hyped for it

[quiet hill]

So is BeoO not getting Mana Siphon to replace recharge???

[gentle wolf]

<@&448920498387288094> For clarity, is the intention of Bestial Bonds lv3 for every follower to have at least 1 +Ability?

[warm finch]

Uhm.

We moderate the discord, not the game. I don't know lol

[gentle wolf]

Odie is in the group.

[warm finch]

Okay but. Pinging moderator with the intention of pinging odie is kinda silly.

Regardless. He'll see it eventually

[gentle wolf]

So is it okay to ping Odie or not?

[warm finch]

No, it is not :)

[gentle wolf]

Ok. I thought so.

[warm finch]

If you thought pinging odie was not okay, why would you ping moderator with the intention of pinging odie

which pings odie PLUS more people

[gentle wolf]

Well, because of we're ever going to figure this out, we need guidance.

[warm finch]

I see. Well. Guidance will come eventually.
Let guidance take a nap sometimes :p

[manic nimbus]

Curious to see the hydrus tweaks before commenting further 👀

[warm finch]

I'm not certain there will be hydrus tweaks. What odie was hinting at was probably reverting the prometheus nerf

which unhurts hydrus

[manic nimbus]

Well

[fierce sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/barackobama-talks-press-con-maybe-classified-gif-11864017

[manic nimbus]

Thats a SUPER TWEAK

[warm finch]

additionally, in the post, odie does say those are the final patch notes

but I could be misinterpreting

[manic nimbus]

Well, i guess it was a postpone of that balance

[wicked sandal]

That just delays the nerf, cause I don't think prom and selene hands are getting left in their current state for long

[manic nimbus]

Yeah, a balance of sorts will come sooner or later

[wicked sandal]

I think hydrus will be fine even with nerfed augs though

only thing I really want is questing instrument

[gentle wolf]

I have a lot of ideas for bringing some of the older pets of lower tiers to make them more relevant or unique; but that's not a "must have" tweak right now

[wicked sandal]

or something like arisen horror/terror

but hybrid weapon

[manic nimbus]

I will continue playing as my main but I would still like a bit of love

Could be in the form of hybrid equipment, indeed

But the Hydrus passive as it is still makes me a bit sad

[summer gulch]

I haven't seen stack post in like forever, I thought he died (quit)

[gentle wolf]

@manic nimbus That was my pitch on the Hydrus passive

[manic nimbus]

Yeah seems fun but not particularly useful. You would most likely have to panacea after going down to 1hp and die next turn

I would like a passive similar to gilga ursa with the 2h use but related to hybrid

A boost to hybrid damage of some sorts

Unless Hydrus is not intented to be the main user of hybrid skills

[rancid surge]

Odie is not in the group

[manic nimbus]

Speaking of odie, i wonder what are the bestial bonds of Sif. 🧐👀

[gentle wolf]

SiF?

[wicked sandal]

sif is odie's unique follower

[manic nimbus]

https://playorna.com/codex/followers/sif/

[wicked sandal]

only way to encounter it is to find odie in the arena

[gentle wolf]

BB3, One with the Creator, All Bonded stats 100%

[gentle wolf]

#1097570738086621295 message
Took me a moment to find it.
Regardless, I'll stop pinging the mods unless it's actually mod related.

[summer gulch]

So I hear acs lvls are being removed for pvp.

My concern for this, is how fresh 225 beos dominate in pvp, imo.

I'm feeling beo will now dominate as a 250 with recent balance

[gentle wolf]

Oh right, I need to read that update

[quaint maple]

Odie has been removed from the moderator group as people are now pinging it to ping him, while also pinging like 10 other people - let's not do that please!

[wicked sandal]

Beo doesn't dominate 225 pvp cause of lack of ascensions though, but cause followers require little gear investment while player dmg does

ascensions being removed from pvp doesn't make beo any better or worse at it

[summer gulch]

Okay

Easier to get into

Not as bad of investment

[gentle wolf]

Absolutely, no problem. As I previously stated I will only use it in a mod situation.

[summer gulch]

Therfore metaable

[wicked sandal]

at 250 you'll still encounter geared up beefcakes which can deal with your follower, ascension or not

[gentle wolf]

I'm not here to cause a ruckus, just to attempt to steer this in the right direction.

[summer gulch]

The current idea I have is beoact maxing or beo statmaxing onto a fjallalalar with bull/crit gems

So fey Chim gear, beocharm, much crit

Nuke

Maybe kerb hood too

[wicked sandal]

Fjalar used evasive strikes!

[gentle wolf]

If the Beo / Bene + Ophion combo using Summon stats+ is intended to stay viable, some of that Ophion gear is giving me ideas.

[south sleet]

it's probably why ophion happened

[polar cypress]

Is going to be viable?

[gentle wolf]

As in, are summon stats going to continue to affect non Summoner classes.

[blazing hull]

it's not. last time I asked, Odie said that it was supposed to be ophion internal stat (so bene useless)

[gentle wolf]

Ok, I remember seeing that.

[blazing hull]

don't know if it's fixed yet tho

[gentle wolf]

It makes for an interesting hybrid since all the summon gear is now Valhallan/Summon

[wicked sandal]

it using ophions stats internally would be a blessing in disguise cause you wouldn't need to compensate for the non summoner -90% penalty on summon stats

could play a blood pact beo build

benefactor has reduced pact effect

[blazing hull]

would be shit imo

i mean, suboptimal

[wicked sandal]

it would, but it's interesting

[gentle wolf]

Someone had posted an image of it in action. It was like 500k damage.

Not sure what lv Pact

I'm gonna take a break from this thread until after work. Lol

[quiet hill]

Does anybody know if BeoO has mana siphon in beta?

[quiet hill]

Ty sir. Final patch notes didn't mention it and I got scared

[polar cypress]

Wow that a lot of passives

[stoic epoch]

I think BeoO got the best treatment out of all 3 Beo classes so far

[summer gulch]

Yea beo is passive hungie

I don't mind tho cx

[stoic epoch]

Feels the most polished, synergizes really well with Fjalar

Crit BeoO with Crit Bird will become the new Beo raiding meta

How's BeoA feel, @umbral glade?

[umbral glade]

ihavent tested much in the last few days, but towers felt really solid when i used my live setup on beta

much better stable damage

and thats just using my normal gear, not specifically tuned for bonding

[stoic epoch]

Would you say you're pretty happy with the way things have turned out for BeoA?

Got any wishlist stuff left?

[summer gulch]

Ik I am

[umbral glade]

happy that gear has more influence, yes
happy that the class is stronger, yes
happy with the current state of bonds - only in some parts
I really really really think we need more bond types. The current ones dont cover many pets and there is nothing that can be done besides adding a few more of them

[summer gulch]

It was shakey when bonds came out but we as beos made it not half bad :>

[umbral glade]

as an example

arch living armor

is a fully defensive pet with divine bastion

its bond is mag and bolt volley

[summer gulch]

Whats it's bonds again?

Oh

Ehhh idk if I like that

[umbral glade]

even if we change that to dex and atk

it still doesnt fit

swap it to the boulder toss

it still feels meh

[stoic epoch]

Give it the "giants" bond?

[summer gulch]

Make it cast db2

[stoic epoch]

Well, part of that is that the giants bonds give such a pittance in terms of ward

[umbral glade]

we just need another 5-10 "base" bonds tbh

[gentle wolf]

I said I was gonna take a break, but I'm at lunch lol
What if the "Breathing" type followers had their own Family like "Animated"

[stoic epoch]

The defense and resistance are nice

[umbral glade]

more bonds = more niche skills can be given out

i wanted guardian strikes as an added skill for the arch armor and mighty slime before

[stoic epoch]

Overall though, would you ever use the arch armor pet?

Like, realistically

[umbral glade]

i personally would not on BeoA

[stoic epoch]

I wouldn't on BeoO

[umbral glade]

but base beo, focused on dealing damage on your own

[gentle wolf]

I thought about Slimes having their own "Slime" family as well.

[umbral glade]

with the armor providing damage and ward sustain

while you deal dmg

[stoic epoch]

I'd rather go full boom chicken

[umbral glade]

add guardian strikes, maybe atk + def + res bond

yea i mean

as long as phoenix exists

[stoic epoch]

No, I meant fjalar

[umbral glade]

most pets are not used even with good pets

but then you have to sustain your own ward

that pet could be less dmg but fully cover ward sustain

and full ward turn sustain

[stoic epoch]

BeoO damage is better, but most of our damage still comes from the pet

[umbral glade]

yea numbers are one thing, but the idea of that pet existing would be nice

[stoic epoch]

I can't think of a situation I'd use it, though

Maybe that's just a lack of creativity on my part

[umbral glade]

well, imagine content that requires you to be more defensive

instead of unga bunga loot piñata

[gentle wolf]

BBlv3 has the potential to bring sub-T10 pets up to a useable level and have more pet choices.

[stoic epoch]

But I like loot piñatas

I'm a simple man

[umbral glade]

ofcourse defensive pets are not useful in content that requires no defensives

[stoic epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/disney-pixar-toy-story-forky-trash-gif-14352954

I'm hoping we get some super kingdom group content

Make me want to pull in a pet that buffs everyone

[umbral glade]

yes

but not the topic for this thread

i still think we need more types of bonds

like the gazer one

that one is nice

[stoic epoch]

Love the Gazer one

[umbral glade]

only has a handful of pets in it

fits thematically

i like bonds that dont need to cover 40 pets

[gentle wolf]

I think animal and magical are the largest pools

[umbral glade]

if a bond only covers like 5? pets, it can get some juicy skill that you couldnt abuse on already juicy pets

as an example, very scary skeleton is close to being pretty good

and useable

if the skeleton line had a bond that gives it a bond of bonded atk and a great skill

it might just be viable

[gentle wolf]

Earlier I mentioned having more in the Ancient family, possibly Cthulhu and maybe the Scruggs.

It would give them AoE options

And the player gets a small boost to the basic elements.

[stoic epoch]

It'd be nice if we had some sort of aoe non elemental option.

[hasty knoll]

thoughts on Anubis today?

[gentle wolf]

Running to look at Anubis

[stoic epoch]

Looks the same to me

[wicked sandal]

I'll have to check if he got changed recently, if he still has sigils + elem VI's then he kinda has the same niche that ymir does but is worse at it

[gentle wolf]

I think the Elemental weakness really fits his kit, however Bolt Volley seems really lackluster overall.

[hasty knoll]

bond

[hasty knoll]

well i feel silly. one min

[umbral glade]

[last bane]

still looks tha same as before

[stoic epoch]

I was like

Isn't it the same

[gentle wolf]

Oh the suspense. Patience is a virtue.

[quiet hill]

That looks promising. Does the ai bonus make bolt valley more likely in hordes? Would be cool to have a cactus alternative

[stoic epoch]

That's the same it's been

I think Odie forgot to push the update

[quiet hill]

I haven't done beta, so all new to me. Trying to follow the testers comments but there's so much

[gentle wolf]

I have a handy spreadsheet in the pins with basic information

[quiet hill]

Thx, I'll check it out. Thx for your hard work, I appreciate you testers

[gentle wolf]

I need to add a legend with stuff like "bonded x does this" etc

[umbral glade]

imagine there is 20 bond changes and odie forgot to publish them

[gentle wolf]

That's fine, it is a collaboration

[quiet hill]

I'm so excited for it to go live. Feels good to get some Beo love, and the bonds feels like a great way to make ignored pets viable. Right now I use cactus or fjalar

[gentle wolf]

I'll update new stuff as it's brought to my attention and when I'm not at work lol

[quiet hill]

Still wondering if bolt volley procs in horde enough to be cactus alternative, anyone test it out?

I'm lightning aligned so if it procs fairly often that might be my new pet

[umbral glade]

is bolt volley even aoe

i cant remember if i tested that

[summer gulch]

Does Ara hera skills count as exploiting ele weakness? But tamer heraA+ tamer for 15% more dmg? 🤔

Like the Ara sigil

[gentle wolf]

I think celestial magic is neutral

Someone correct me on that

[stoic epoch]

I haven't gotten it to cast bolt volley in a horde yet, all is doing it spamming sigils

And remember, they don't always stick

[last bane]

Not AoE, just tested

[umbral glade]

i am guessing its about to get a new bond

[gentle wolf]

Hopefully we get to test the codex dragons before this is over.

They each have their own roles

Someone @ me please when Odie activates Anubis.

[stoic epoch]

I was like, "Have I Mandela'd?"

Did I turn a corner in my kitchen and end up in a parallel universe where the only difference is the Anubis bonds?

[manic nimbus]

I must ask... Are questing lutes something we can dream about? 👀

[polar cypress]

Definitely

[round shore]

can't be stopped from dreaming, but probably not part of this balance patch 😛

[manic nimbus]

But do you think we can have a looong term dream? 👀

[polar cypress]

Well I hope we are getting it sooner or later

Questing lute, trialing harp, celestial harp

Dunno if harp is a word in English

[summer gulch]

Harp can be 1 handed less it beeg

[manic nimbus]

Yes please

[wicked sandal]

also a triple neck hydra guitar and a piano

[stoic epoch]

Changes "Verse" to "Power Ballad"

[hasty knoll]

okay, anubis now?

[stoic epoch]

Do those sigil + abilities supercede the regular sigils?

[umbral glade]

sigil+ = aoe?

[round shore]

16 skills, oh my. 😅

If sigil+s replace sigils, then 12 skills.
4 sigils
4 singles
4 aoes

smartAI atm won't care about weakness (or sigil) during aoe, right?
i.e. even if every enemy has Water Sigil applied, Anubis will use Wildfire as often as Winter Wind in a multi-enemy scenario

[stoic epoch]

Sigil plus is aoe!

[umbral glade]

i gues the smart ai is smart enough to use the aoe damage the aoe sigil prepared

also: please give dark sigil+ to arisen glashtyn

[summer gulch]

Omg that's great!

[wicked sandal]

aoe sigil is pretty neat, damage of the aoe is a bit lackluster though. Consider giving it the lvl3 aoes from magi, since it's a lv3 bond

[umbral glade]

it does sound great, reality is that still is not good in dungeons due to 2 turn per kill

[summer gulch]

It's a step to glory

[wicked sandal]

it honestly didn't sigil at all for me on base beo

no idea on auriga

but on base it went straight for the aoes

[stoic epoch]

No, I've had it mark things with a sigil then use another elemental damage ability

Also

[umbral glade]

mimics lost the chance to poison you ❤️

[stoic epoch]

It will use the same sigil back to back

[umbral glade]

yea sigils arent 100%

[regal bramble]

I was very reluctant to go back to Beo, this one was enough to pull me back

[umbral glade]

draconic era dragons are now available btw

(they have the generic dragon bond)

[stoic epoch]

No, it used it, the sigil stuck on the mob, then it used the same sigil again

[umbral glade]

yea okay that is in need of improvements

[stoic epoch]

It'll also aoe sigil, then swap elements and aoe sigil again the next turn

[umbral glade]

idk if there is content that bond is good in - its a big step in a right direction, but for dungeons everything past instant direct aoe dmg will not be useable

this might be decent in towers

[stoic epoch]

If it was more reliable I'd say it was OK

[umbral glade]

aoe sigil and skill when facing more than 1 enemy

sigil and single target against 1 enemy

but sigils need to be more reliable for that

[stoic epoch]

But wasting a couple turns every floor cycling through sigils is only gonna get me killed

[wicked sandal]

Thats a big boy

[stoic epoch]

Thicccc

[umbral glade]

the way dungeon meta works right now, everything besides instant aoe damage will not be used

[stoic epoch]

We got ws3 and wyrms song back

Thank you!

[umbral glade]

thats been in for a week :p

[stoic epoch]

Shows how much attention I've been paying

[umbral glade]

all that being said, this is the type of bond i really like

builds upon the base skillset of the pet

[stoic epoch]

No, big step in the right direction

Needs refined till its usable

I love the aoe sigils

[umbral glade]

i like the idea of improving the pet by being the class thats good at pets

[sick tinsel]

Here I propose to do something to get things done with BBs :

We inspect, judge and modify each Bestial Bond, one by one.
Once the actual Bestial Bond reached a satisfying state, we pin it through the bot and go to an next one.

I propose to start with the Critical BBs, since it is the closest to satisfaction.
Once it is, we'll use it as base to adjust following Bestial Bonds.

BBs accessibility reminder :

• BB1 at t7* (Beastmaster / Tamer / Dragon Knight)
• BB2 at t8* (Freyr / Bahamut / Bahamut Auriga)
• BB3 at t10* ( Beowulf / Beowulf Auriga )

Critical BBs #1097570738086621295 message

BB1

+4% Crit Chance ✅
Crit chance is a good way to improve reliability of critical hits for both player and follower

+7% Crit Damage 🛠️ -> +15% Crit Damage OR +6% Crit Chance (+10%* in total)*
Crit damage amount is near irrelevant, I would prefer to transfer +7% crit damage to additionnal crit chance or increase the damage multiplier more

BB2

+10% Bonded Attack (Att to Follower) ✅
+20% Bonded Critical Chance (Crit to Follower) ✅
Bonded stats are a good way to improve followers through powerful equipments

🛠️ -> +10% Bonded Magic (Mag to Follower)
But skills aren't the only abilities to be able to crit, spells too !

BB3

+15% Bonded Attack (Att to Follower) ✅
+20% Bonded Critical Chance (Crit to Follower) ✅
🛠️ -> *+15% Bonded Magic (Mag to Follower) *
Same as BB2

Bonded Ability : Bonded Strikes (M1: ???, M2: ???) 🛠️ -> Hybrid calculation
Strong ability that can crit, but as said in BB2 : magic users should be able to use it too.

[umbral glade]

bonded ward has bigger numbers now, a ortanite golem gets me from 152912 ward to 157629 ward

bonded hp and mana also seem to be bigger

lvl2 from 7 to 8% and level 3 from 8% to 15%

on the grand rally bond

in case it got lost when i said it earlier: mimics lost the chance to poison you, so they can be used on 1hp again

thou the mimic bond could use some fine tuning in its numbers, it seems kinda low compared to 20% atk&mag that dragons have

i vote for Very scary skeleton getting a atk bond instead of its current nekrosis/magic bond

[quiet hill]

I'd prefer if there were no aoe debuff for anubis and just aoe dmg. If it procs enough on BeoO to be on par with cactus then it would be cool to have an alternative. I've never done caster beo but I'd give it a shot

[polar locust]

The AoE in Anubis is good enough to trade from Fey Cactus?

[umbral glade]

not atm

it needs a turn to use sigils

(cactus has the floor cleared now)

then uses its aoe

it also has a problem of immunities, more so than cactus

and sigils may not stick / may not apply, so it will try to apply another one

so for dungeons, i dont think its viable, i could see it against tankyhordes

[polar locust]

Okk, and for towers?

Isn't viable too?

[umbral glade]

that would need testing

[polar locust]

Since it has single skills and aoe

[umbral glade]

dungeons dont pass the eye test

towers could be nice

[stoic epoch]

To make Anubis viable for horde modes you'd almost have to give him Mage's Dance / Pavane and cut out the aoe Sigils completely.

But I like the AoE sigils, so maybe just buffing the cap out of the damage skills he gets would work?

Like, if it takes him 2 turns to cast a damage ability at least make it so he clears the field, minus immunities.

Otherwise Cactus is still Beo horde king.

[umbral glade]

honestly, give anubis the aoe skills as base instead of the single target spells, add sigil + and higher level aoes as bond

[stoic epoch]

I don't think Towers are going to be any better

[stoic epoch]

That's an idea. We've already got ymir as our magic single target nuker

I even like that concept thematically. He's a magical desert God, summoning sandstorms and rains of fire.

[misty acorn]

I just woke up, what did I miss 🫠

[stoic epoch]

Anubis has new bonds