Valhallan Changes

[misty acorn]

Unless I have cactus on

Then it's 0s for days

Og chim hits like an absolute truck with his single hit skills

Too bad gs is so rampant and you die so fast to them that aoe skills will be the meta for a long time

This is actually fun thinking of the portent of augments, after experiencing pet stats actually doing something

[noble stag]

I'm a summoner and looking forward to nerfs too, so people stop shitting on us lol

[misty acorn]

Most people are fine if there's a trade off for being op or there's a way to work around it. Vsing gs there's just no work around, you're just dead rofl. The aoe is a work around but it's so rng

Anyways

Everyone knows this

I'm sure it'll work out in the end

[umbral glade]

especially for us since we cant even try to target the summoner with our main dmg

[rocky rivet]

ward boost for all to use Chained Shield

[misty acorn]

Im not doing more with chained shield really

maybe they balanced it

actually, i am doing a bit more lol

Might be the buff to my stats tho

I noticed the improvement to pet act as well

also, doing both pet damage and player damage is definitely easier as well

i redlined my mirror and lindworm did nearly 1m in pvp, i see why you guys are obsessed with this thing

Its op

[rugged glade]

Since the Fomorian gear, I love battle against Summoners

[noble stag]

lindworm used to be my favorite thing in the game before summoner got added

if its as good as you guys are saying, i might hop back on the beo train

[misty acorn]

i could kill anyone instantly with it

basically

1 hit i mean, so 1 or 2 turns

the ai from beoA definitely makes this thing shine

hes a bit all over the place without the ai

at full hp and atk^^ only i do over 400k damage with og beo

pvp

[noble stag]

when it got added i remember making a holy build with a holy align book offhand so i can bank on the lyon's mark

[misty acorn]

considering lots of classes do that instantly its nothing to get excited about

[noble stag]

it used to be really bad, but felt cool thematically

which is all that matters

[misty acorn]

849 lol

[obsidian vector]

%100 with you on this one pal, just wanted to point out something

[misty acorn]

Im not, i hate having to use calls on everything

they dont always work and they often make the pet unused

pets that have are reliable and consistent get the most use

[obsidian vector]

+1

[misty acorn]

if a pet had lots of everything it becomes less viable really fast

lindworm got wyvern speed 3 and stuff and even now its like making it less viable

I tried to run a dungeon when cactus had a buff skill, you die

tried skadi, its not 100%

its not reliable and it makes it completely useless

[summer gulch]

New gsums gonna have like 40k ward and ward up amities and my aoe split gonna not pen health too much 😭

[obsidian vector]

Seems like things 'unironically' going to be like that

[misty acorn]

This is where you wanna do player damage on top of pet damage, it helps

[obsidian vector]

Btw any news on "pet power increase as your dmg increase?" @umbral glade

[summer gulch]

Yea I'm too invested in pets, imma have to branch out rather I like it or not

I just don't know what's good, or how to build beoA

[misty acorn]

with the buff to the classes stats as well as the redline addition you can achieve it much easier now

Wont have to change your build as much

[summer gulch]

Isn't there a bonded hp pet that gives Hella bond? Like the fae?

[obsidian vector]

Their summons are less likely to protect them in pvp tho

[misty acorn]

pets ignore summon block

btw

[obsidian vector]

So, go for the face I guess?

[misty acorn]

and he said aoe lol

cactus spread damage vs more ward = :<

[rugged glade]

Yeah, stats transferred from player to pet are tested in beta right now

[summer gulch]

Cus beguiled or balrd+ big bonded hp sounds juicy

[summer gulch]

And this is why I want target marking for valhallans

Fjalalalr marked on gsum player nuking owo

[misty acorn]

That would be a bit unfair haha

they ignore the block chance so i think its actually better

[summer gulch]

Yea but a beo can dream ;p

[obsidian vector]

Have anyone tried comparing the BeoO and BeoH on beta? I'm really curious if they accidentally made the BeoO a powerhouse or anything

[misty acorn]

it works out pretty fair cause their block % means nothing haha

[misty acorn]

I can do that

[obsidian vector]

Pls do that 🥲

[misty acorn]

okay lets see

do you want a lute to make the hm boost higher on beoH?

in other words do you want me to focus on player stats or just a defensive build

[obsidian vector]

Player stats

[misty acorn]

okie dokie

[summer gulch]

Does beoH get a higher player crit chance stat? Ik beoO would have lucky crits for 5% (or 15?) boost to crit

[obsidian vector]

Cuz with the new addition to dissonance

[rugged glade]

BeoH have the Valhallan Strenght giving +7% crit

[obsidian vector]

Seems like raiding with BeoO is going to be much more likely. Even if you focus on player dmg

[misty acorn]

the difference is much less now

beoO has always been the best and always will be 😄

good pet damage and good player damage

you gotta embrace both to succeed

[obsidian vector]

So this means BeoO will easily surpass the BeoH on raids

[misty acorn]

although beoA is looking pretty damn good now

[summer gulch]

For survival, but I have been enjoying beoA for speedier dungeons ngl

[misty acorn]

It was an absolute disgrace before

[summer gulch]

With buffed ward my beo gonna be a loot gremlin menace with 46~k ward

And not 23k

[misty acorn]

well they nerfed hybrid augments so ill be beoA dungeon running from now on lol

[summer gulch]

If only I could be strong enough where low hp beoA could 1 shot a hoard of t10 bosses with cactus 😭

[misty acorn]

can wait to spray down some t11 hardboss hordes

This patch will help

I could barely do it either

oracle was borderline

[obsidian vector]

Sad day for beoHs

[misty acorn]

tamer it was pretty good

but ascension 106 man

[summer gulch]

I stopped using cactus in live ngl. Fjalalalar helps more and allows more chance for dc.

It's the dots that hurt, however

But such is gremlin gear

[misty acorn]

fjalar vs hordes? damnn

wild

[summer gulch]

It's slower for sure

[misty acorn]

if you ran full orn gear you'd get wrecked

[summer gulch]

But that bird kills anything not immune or forbidding it

I run full orn with fallen shield rn in live

[misty acorn]

well thats not bad at all

[warm finch]

I still have my fingers crossed for randomly targetted multihit spells (like Aerial Barrage hitting one random per target per barrage hit)

[rugged glade]

We should also consider that BeoH will often be under DC or free Zerk (or both) much easier than BeoO, thanks to his high-rate acting pet and Recharge

[warm finch]

(Not specific to beo, or aerial barrage, but multi-hits in general)

[summer gulch]

The sheild is for 46k ward though if I could I would dual wield questing

[misty acorn]

Multi hits hitting more than 1 enemy?

[summer gulch]

Not a bad idea, kinda like chained shield

[misty acorn]

Too much power lol

But id take it lol

[summer gulch]

Hey

Beo been in the gutter

We need the up n up

;p

[misty acorn]

lol but i always think of balance first

[summer gulch]

#teambuff never nerf

[misty acorn]

when things feel op or unfair it ruins the experience for everyone

If my fjalar had a chance to hit more than 1, gs would get a taste of their own lolol

In pve it would be amaaaazzzing

[summer gulch]

Bruh

[misty acorn]

pve only yes please

lol

[summer gulch]

Ward buff means my max ward inq beo gonna be having like 500-600k ward

That with purple dragon

[misty acorn]

ill dm you something elii

[summer gulch]

Secret 😳

[warm finch]

By multihitting I mean that, per example if barrage has 6 hits, and there are 3 opponents in battle, any of them could get hit by 0-6 hits, for a total of 6 hits split between them.

Aka it'd be identical in a 1v1 scenario

In a way, it's similar to damage-splitting AoE, but less even.

[obsidian vector]

https://tenor.com/view/naughty-baycbv-gif-26360075

[misty acorn]

id definitely test this 😄

[warm finch]

Alas, it's just a silly idea that is not on the scope of beta. So my comments on it are inappropriate here regardless.
Disregard my presence.
I was never here.
smoke bomb

[misty acorn]

I dont think bonded ward works

I think this has been mentioned before

even at 617k ward, bonded ward gives me 618k lol

mana works.... fae just gave me 25k mana

[obsidian vector]

So theorically, BeoO is much more powerful than BeoH even if I play straight dps build

Is that correct?

[misty acorn]

If you played beoO hybrid which barely anyone does it has potential to do a lot

but beoH carves

If you still do the crit build thing beoH would be pretty decent, i havent compared in raids just yet

testing pets currently

[sick tinsel]

Beaststrikes would finally have a utility !

[obsidian vector]

Cuz with the adition of new pet buffs and pet interactions, it should easily surpass the beoh's damage per round

[misty acorn]

Potentially yeah

Most likely

[sick tinsel]

BeoH true potential is in PvP/Tower

[misty acorn]

Its looking that way, especially if youre redlined up and your fjalar is doing a casual 2m and you be nuking too

but man, beoH hits so hard on its own

less pet management

it definitely still has its place

no redline is so good sometimes

[sick tinsel]

In endless for example

[summer gulch]

Me with me soon to be 380k ward beoA double acting on all the towers

I am speed

Me when immortal lord 😭

[obsidian vector]

To me, the problem is -> people want the BeoA to be overall reliable and powerful, and self sufficient. While hydrus just going to be good(or even ok) at only pvp?

[sick tinsel]

The objective of variants is to specialize and ascend one classline, variants will help with completing original class weaknesses

[obsidian vector]

Yeah that's the problem I'm concerned about

[misty acorn]

Its not a problem

Dont worry about that

[sick tinsel]

So it's normal that variants are specialized, it's the goal

But I do have a hard time to see the differences between BeoO and BeoA

[summer gulch]

I don't think celestial were advertised as an upgrade, just a style of playing or side grade

[misty acorn]

If you ascended beo and you wanna be more of an offensive deity then beoH is still it

[obsidian vector]

Theorically, hydrus's after thr patch situation seems a bit nerfed

[misty acorn]

id say it will still beat beoO in raids

[sick tinsel]

BeoH is the critical deity

rn yeah

But with 50% stats bonus from new Valhallan Dissonance

mmh

[misty acorn]

the hybrid augments nerf brought hydrus closer to beoO for sure

[obsidian vector]

I mean, why would I want to play beoh if my beoo does more dmg in most cases?

[misty acorn]

you need to test it out

I bet i could easily raid faster on beoH still

[summer gulch]

Idk if passive actually allows this but pet second chance bringing beoH to 1hp would be

[noble stag]

so you can have 15k attack stat turn one i guess

[misty acorn]

to get 15k youd have to be over asc 100 or run full offense and have no defenses

My stats are much much lower now

[obsidian vector]

I'm with you guys on this one. But seems like with the new patch, BeoA looks an general upgrade to the class while BeoH makes it less viable in most cases

[misty acorn]

beoa was absolutely dog shit before

lmao

[obsidian vector]

Ye

But I'm talking about the patch

[misty acorn]

Like embarrassingly bad

[summer gulch]

Beoa was what beoO was on release

So bad needed tlc

[misty acorn]

i wouldnt go that far lmao

[summer gulch]

BeoO was dogshite

[misty acorn]

Oh man

[summer gulch]

Like my baha was better at the time till I got Hella ward

[obsidian vector]

Wait, beoh has dissonance now? I'm confused

I've read the patch like thrice but things change too quickly

[misty acorn]

Nah its still valh strength 2

so beoH doesnt get redline does it

So that sets it apart, its the crit recharge with high stats, i dig it

im happy where its sitting

personally

beoO has redline, less stats no recharge now

[obsidian vector]

I mean, I get it, it's more balanced. Self sufficient enough with its recharge, HM and having high raw stats makes it much safer to play

[misty acorn]

if you were beo and were like man i wanna bard carry my friends

you'd do it with beoH cause its got way more stats

more hp, more ward

or if you wanna speed through hardboss

you'd just crit verse 4 and recharge the whole way

[summer gulch]

No inq carry : (

[misty acorn]

no one uses that elii im sorry

[summer gulch]

If you mean buffs

[misty acorn]

lol

[summer gulch]

I use that : (

High hp (14% from spec iirc) and healer

[misty acorn]

its not needed haha i know you like it but yeah its not needed

[summer gulch]

What more can you want

Pls let me crit heal

[misty acorn]

beoh 😄

[summer gulch]

As in crit my heals

[obsidian vector]

Inq gs is a good support if you do 2 player party

[summer gulch]

This me

I inq beo and buff gsum pets so they can BP3 the raid

[misty acorn]

i play solo or just straight carry

i like to run without my friends getting a turn so they get a free carry lol

oh raids yeah

[summer gulch]

Inquest used to be crit++ on others too but got moved to player only

[obsidian vector]

Or you can be inq support, if your carry is gs

[misty acorn]

i dont need the helps

[summer gulch]

Inq fjalalalalr

[misty acorn]

im a strong independent beo

[obsidian vector]

Fun fact: rhada pact works if you're another class as well

[misty acorn]

yep

[summer gulch]

Thus I'm inq beo with rhada2

So strong

[obsidian vector]

Stronk

[summer gulch]

But out dpsd by hera still ngl

[misty acorn]

you go non tamer

[summer gulch]

Bc gs gotta set up like beo

[misty acorn]

Bonded hp and bonded ward dont really do anything

trying might slime and he spamming friendship, this skill needs to go

it doesnt even do anything

i dont even get buffs from it

[summer gulch]

I'd you have a party of 2+ (summons including) friendship gives them one or many of res def mag atk^

Used to fail 50% of the time

[misty acorn]

amazing

[summer gulch]

Most beoA hate friendship cus it's spammed and ruins dps pets like cactus

[misty acorn]

yes

i ranted about that lol

couldnt even get passed floor 3 in a dungeon

[obsidian vector]

How do you mirror your character?

[misty acorn]

he just spammed it and i died to statuses

[summer gulch]

Oh wait I thought that was hellmo

[misty acorn]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1098600696460349450

beoH isnt dead

it does like doublethe damage of beoO

180k vs 300k chained shield same items

so beoh would be quicker to get into raids and start nuking, beoO can do like 1/2 to 2/3 the damage with skills but you'd have to set up and redline to boost pets, so thats what would make it slower

I think theyre in a good place

oooo 2 turn ultima strikes is greaaaat

[misty acorn]

its definitely close tho, @obsidian vector just raided with both, doing player damage only and yeah its pretty damn similar

[obsidian vector]

I don't think it's going to be dead or anything

My concern is BeoA being an ultimate upgrade to class (even tho celestials shouldn't be an upgrade) while BeoH makes the class more limited for a very small gain

In short, I know, BeoA needed a fix and pet style play needed more love. But these changes is kinda against the core of celestial classes. As I said before.
A. BeoA is basically an upgrade to BeoO, which is already a problem in itself cuz celestials should be sidegrades.
B. These buffs turns the hybrid BeoO a powerhouse, that there's no reason for someone to grind towers and get the BeoH just for a small gain.

[noble stag]

wait does beoa only lose hybrid monster?

and dragon immunity i guess

[umbral glade]

And base stats

[obsidian vector]

In theory, BeoH seems more versatile bc of it's raw stats but the thing is you need all kinds of BiS items for this to work. Which is a HUGE grind even just for one build. But you can start nuking raids, hordes, basically all kinds of stuff just for few pets and items since pet stats now can scale with player stats. As a player, why would I prefer a BeoH

I'd just take the BeoO and call it a day

[umbral glade]

A celestial lute and some generic defensive gear makes is work already, its not THAT gear dependent

[obsidian vector]

Lemme try hording with a cele lute

Sure

"It works"

I bet it'd be easier to run a horde dungeon if I were to be a BeoO with the same gears

And I'm not even considering how grindy it is to unlock a celestial class and making a 20lv lute. While, again, a BeoO can dish out the same dmg without a cele lute

Why would someone unlock a cele class and craft a cele weap just for a small gain?

[misty acorn]

It doesn't dish the same damage, beoH does more and that's some pretty low damage, you need to optimize your build

[obsidian vector]

I've optimized to "A celestial lute and some generic defensive gear"

[misty acorn]

You're low level and low ascension so maybe you need to focus on level and trying the classes more

Id be using pavane with beoH over beoO it does way more

That's not optimized for hordes

At all

[obsidian vector]

Tell that to him

[misty acorn]

You can't put on a weapon run half defense and orn gear and clear hordes, I'm not sure why you even shared that

[obsidian vector]

To prove the class is gear dependent

[polar locust]

All the classes are?

[misty acorn]

beoH is better are using spells and js safer with more HP and ward, it has its benefits, even tho it's closer to beoO now cause of the nerf

How is this game not gear dependant

Unless you're gs

Lol jk

All that stuff you said is all so inaccurate

[obsidian vector]

All I'm saying is this

You need less gear grind to make beoo or beoa work

That's accurate

[misty acorn]

You're arguing you don't wanna grind gear to try different play styles, no one's stopping you from getting beoO and calling it a day, it is veratile, getting a celestial weapon is not a massive grind at all

[obsidian vector]

If I have to grind all that for a small gain, I'd just take here or rs

[misty acorn]

If you didn't grind gear as beo or BeoA you'd just die faster

[obsidian vector]

That's also true for beoh

[misty acorn]

Pet suck ass without investment too

Id say beoH is better and easier

Your pets would be even worse cause you're low level and ascension

You should go beoh

[obsidian vector]

Yeah I know

[misty acorn]

Anyways don't worry about it, it's not as bad as you think

beoH is still good

[obsidian vector]

But do you think t10 players makes up most of the player base or t11 asc40 players?

[misty acorn]

I think they're casuals and have little input and don't play long term

The mid games fine

Or have big mouths with no experience

[obsidian vector]

I'm just sayin

[misty acorn]

Just reassuring you that beoH is still okay, you should still get it

But also just beoO is fine too

I still think beoO is the best of the 3

[obsidian vector]

People gonna start posting soon on reddit and #1024038009823313981 about how unlocking beoh is not worth their time at all

[misty acorn]

So

They don't have to get it lol

It is worth their time

If they want to take a break from using pets all the time

It's good for soooo many things

beoH rules

[obsidian vector]

I believe that's important bcz casual or not, player base makes these types of games running, whether an mmo or game as a service. Optimizing your game to top %1 players kills the balance and fun part real fast. That comes from a long time experienced mouth

[misty acorn]

No one's saying that at all

You just don't know wtf you're talking about. Beo Hydrus is one of the best celestial classes lol

[obsidian vector]

I'm not saying it isn't 🤦🏻‍♂️

[misty acorn]

Your pavane build was not optimized for hordes so of course it's gonna do nothing

[obsidian vector]

I'm just comparing beoh with its other counterparts

Thats all

[misty acorn]

I know that!

[obsidian vector]

My og pavane build was kinda looked like this. But an average player needs ton of work to get this build

[misty acorn]

It's better for so many things, it's worth getting if you want it, if not then don't, it's a good offensive non pet focused side grade and very useful over beo and BeoA, I don't care if I'm top 1% or whatever you said. Get a better build and try again beo vs beoa

That build also sucks

[obsidian vector]

And even with this, I'd be kinda better off if I were to just use base here

[south sleet]

oh god those holes

[obsidian vector]

Don't worry about them too much

Work in progress

[misty acorn]

I've done over 40,000 dungeons with beo I don't need to look at your builds

You should go to a build craft thread lol

[obsidian vector]

Ok grandpa

[misty acorn]

Random ass staffs

[obsidian vector]

Pet stat hood?

[misty acorn]

Beguiled

[south sleet]

that's not beguiled, it's avalon

[misty acorn]

Looked like feral for a second

Either way you can't clear hordes with that

Crimsons and staffs?

It's a mess

[obsidian vector]

🤦🏻‍♂️

Would you be more chill if I were to put blue pinions just for this ss?

I know how to make builds

[misty acorn]

Clearly

[obsidian vector]

Let's get you to bed

[misty acorn]

Smh

[sick tinsel]

We ain't in a build share channel

[misty acorn]

Anyone who used that build would quit the game

[obsidian vector]

I wasn't trying to

Ah whatever

[obsidian vector]

It was just to prove a point, that beoh is gear dependent like every other class

But being versatile comes with a cost of grinding those gears

Idk how things come down to build-knowledge

[misty acorn]

Bruh

[sick tinsel]

Well Beowulf is gear dependant, no specially BeoH

[misty acorn]

You're just wrong man end of story lol

[sick tinsel]

Having access to all class items give us freedom to choose and optimize some builds

[misty acorn]

Keep playing gs if you don't want to depend on gear as much

[sick tinsel]

But BeoH is hybrid dependant to be efficient

[misty acorn]

Everything needs something to be efficient

[sick tinsel]

And there is not that much hybrid weapon choices

[obsidian vector]

As a wise man once said:
You're nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye
-videogamedonkey

[misty acorn]

Please leave, yes good

Omg

[sweet pollen]

He also called pizza hut and asked for tacos

[misty acorn]

I'm not even nitpicking or biased lol 😂

[obsidian vector]

Knack2 baby

[sick tinsel]

Everyone is free to ask something, but don't expect to get something

[gentle wolf]

What gear are y'all using to get this crazy high ward?

[obsidian vector]

I was just quoting a joke

[sick tinsel]

Beta PvP buff

[grave fog]

Welcome to Gilga

[wicked sandal]

Hydrus has no setup time and can maintain berserks way easier than og can. Potential dps when stars align shouldnt be a good criteria to base class strength on

Unless its easy to align those stars or the potential is worth the setup (like gs endless as an ingame example)

Aside from stuff like OR and maybe amorri, why should i bother edging to redline, selfcasting dc, etc to end up doing maybe 20% more dmg

By the time youre low hp and have dc/db up hydrus has done 2 raids

[rugged glade]

🤔 I don't understand. Are BeoO and BeoA still too weak for you ? And is it because of the setup time caused by redline ?

[umbral glade]

Its much closer to the average now.
That being said, raids are too weak (or player power too high) which leads to raids being dead before reaping much of the benefit of our full setup, since it can be kinda long due to redlining and self casting DC
In that time, many other classes are done with the raid.
This would look different in a 1b hp fight, but most non amorri fight are 10ish m hp or lower

[last totem]

You have to put 5 Selene hands for horde

[stoic epoch]

Or just run unascended Heretic or Deity with Bard.

[obsidian vector]

That was my initial point

[stoic epoch]

Still, if Dejct is having trouble with Horde content at AL 100+ and optimized gear, that's a pretty huge issue for me. Why would I ascend a class like that?

Any further than I already have.

[round shore]

The reality is that dance/pavane and sweep are the things that need to change. 1shot horde shouldn't be easy (arguably, not even possible). Gives more space for aoe design, gives enemies an actual opportunity to act without requiring second chance or mega-dexterity/dodge on ~every enemy.

But that's well outside the scope of this beta 🙂

[stoic epoch]

Aww man, I don't want dungeons taking extra time.

That's the exact opposite of what I want.

I wanna ice skate through them, collect my rewards, and go back to doing irl Van stuff.

[round shore]

You can rest assured that my opinion on most balance things is not supported. Instead numbers just go up.

[stoic epoch]

Like feeding babies, or making sure my assembly line hasn't crapped out.

[umbral glade]

Monsters not having a chance to fight back without a gimmick is not cool, dungeons are beyond fixing in that regard at this point in time

Towers do that for the non turbo ascended players

Deep dungeons hopefully do that as well when they release

There should be aplace for loot piñata gameplay somewhere, but challenging content should also exist

[stoic epoch]

I can agree with that.

[last totem]

With full Selene lute on beta (and no buff from dragon kills to compensate a bit my 21 ALs).
I see no problem here for BeoH horde clearing

@obsidian vector

[umbral glade]

And thats without snotra

[last totem]

Just replicated the buff he had in his screen with crit lute. With snotra dance goes up to 140k on live, should not be much lower after adjustments

With snotra on beta

[stoic epoch]

What's Bonded Strikes?

I haven't seen it go off yet

[umbral glade]

That looks perfectly suitable to clear most floors

[umbral glade]

It had reptile strike until earlier today, i would guess its just renamed since its not lizarr only anymore

But havent tested

[polar locust]

Did you tested the skill?

[stoic epoch]

It can crit.

[polar locust]

So it's the same as reptile i assume

[stoic epoch]

Looks like it.

Gazers still have no view distance. Sad.

I think my biggest disappointment so far is despite how cool bonds are they still haven't opened up pet choice variety.

Like, I'm still gonna be using Lindy / Fjalar / Ymir for single target raids, Cactus for Summoner type fights.

[umbral glade]

Once the baseline is figured out, as in, how much % can and should each bond stat have, adding more families to open up more pets should get much easier

[noble stag]

Variety is really hard to achieve

Like, there is always going to be something that's best for specific content

We got more variety with the pet balance patch a couple months ago

But like, how do you add variety and not just shift the meta and make something else the "must use"

[round shore]

variety wasn't a particularly low point.

Fjalar, Lindworm, Ymir, and Fey Chimera were all good raiding pets. Each had slightly different ideal settings, slightly different gear reqs. One mage three attackers, two that crit two that didn't, etc.

Cactus dominating horde was a much tighter pinch.

I'm pretty sure Lindworm now is just "best" for raiding, though.

[noble stag]

Try to add variety in horde challenge(impossible)

As long as bard and charmer exist

[summer gulch]

Need more hoard friendly pets atm for me it's cactus or fjalal

[polar cypress]

Is amadan going to be horde viable with bonds?

[round shore]

It's close. As is Fey Dragon.

Now that cactus has bond atk (why), there's still a sizeable gap though.

[south sleet]

so uh, when amadan hits cactus numbers, who would use physical cactus that can be immuned over amadan elementless lacunus?

[umbral glade]

Utility instead of damage - a pet eith high view distance, a pet that finds additional loot, a exp/orn boosting pet, a debuff pet.

If its just "who has the biggest number" there will be one definite answer, if its utility focused there may be different answers for different situations

[noble stag]

Yeah but there already is variety for different content

What I'm saying is it's really hard to have variety for one type of content

But yeah I agree

[umbral glade]

If you could go cactus for high dmg or go for a pet that may not always 1shot but has a 30% chance to find a radnom material, then there would be a choice imo

(That concept could also exist on a weapon for other classes)

[stoic epoch]

That's more what I meant. Like, there's other things you can add beyond damage that would make me consider using another pet.

Give me a pet that sniffs out local consumables like shrines the more you use it

[umbral glade]

Leprechaun pet that has a chance to double gold drops (not that its needed..) but has weaker clear or something

[round shore]

because amadan also doesn't use lacunus as much. requires lots more act/smartai investment than even cactus.
because amadan is worse than cactus at territory defense/war defense, if you're sitting on the pet.
because amadan requires +mag gear for bondmagic, which tends to have less Def and might get you killed more. Same with Snotra v. Gunnr.

plus "when amadan hits cactus numbers" is still quite a ways off.

[stoic epoch]

Give me a Nothren Engineer pet that collects items as I run dungeons

[umbral glade]

Thief type pet that can steal

But yea, damage alone wont being much variety, unless their numbers are literally the same, other things can

[summer gulch]

Itll have avivity 2 as it's b3

[umbral glade]

My boi arisen glashtyn is still in need of a new bond, he still got atk/dex

[gentle wolf]

So if tamer has BB1, does that strengthen the bond?

[round shore]

it doesn't stack. but it does give BB1 access to non-valhallans

doesn't do a lot atm, but seems like one of those "might be cool later" things

or for a very specific kind of build

[polar locust]

Rs/tamer

Might go with that ngl

For pvp

[round shore]

it's 20% earth res on phoenix, which is something I guess. not that X/tamer is particularly common nowadays in a world of oracle spec, zwei/bard, etc.

[gentle wolf]

I'm also seeing that the Titan trio 100% Arch alchemy doesn't seem to be "100%" at all.

[polar locust]

Can always get out of the common area

[round shore]

autoward (+2 turns) on ortanite golem makes X/tamer pretty interesting. even 1 turn of auto ward is a big deal in turn1/one-shot pvp era.

[gentle wolf]

I would love to see what a true 100% Arch alchemy looks like in a horde dungeon

[round shore]

arch alchemy is potion effect, right? double hp gained from potions?

[gentle wolf]

iirc It is the chance to find random materials after a fight

It's an Amity effect

[umbral glade]

Noble gaia with a phoenix gonna get some earth res while earth immune

Did some tower floors with my low effort live setup (ward regen c.axe, defensive equip, fenrir) and it felt so much better

I cant compare it to other classes, as i don't play those, but compared to live it was much smoother. Stuff died much quicker, it was really enjoyable

[round shore]

due to... bondatk increasing fenrir damage? or the more stats/stat passive? or something else

[umbral glade]

Fenrirs dmg was much higher

I dont really have troubles surviving due to my setup being overloaded on defensives, but with the stat boost i dont need that anymore for the future

I only did like 20 floors on my break time at work, but fenrir 1shotted most things with just his self buff

Which would equal ~2 shots for most enemies on higher floors

[stoic epoch]

It'd be cool if you started getting healed by elements you're more than 100% resistant to.

[umbral glade]

I just miss my dragon immunity

🥲

[stoic epoch]

That's one of the reasons I still main Beo O.

[umbral glade]

I outgear the nasty dragon hits by now and just dragon align in endless but yea, it was so nice to have

I should look into base beo again after the patch, now that i have stuff like chained shield unlocked

[stoic epoch]

The difference between base beo survivability live vs beta is night and day

[umbral glade]

I can unlock gilga ursa if there are no new fun skills added, those skills would pair well with beo as well

Yea the stat boosting passive is great

It always felt wrong that we had no benefit outside of pet damage from redlining

In the future i think valhallan protections should get some love as well, 12% chance to immune incomming stuff feels lackluster even if its potentially powerful

But that might be a bit much for this patch

[polar cypress]

Still better than Hydrus passive tho

[umbral glade]

Some more fine tuning on bestial bonds (some wrong skillsets on pets still, the mess that most undeads have atm, ward bond being useless, some skills like friendship) and i think its getting close to being done

Ignores the "smart ai avoids using skills that get immuned", uses wildfire in like 95% of actions

[stoic epoch]

I know! And the damage is so low its unusable at t10.

[umbral glade]

Yea at least on the big skeletron boi

[stoic epoch]

Onryo ain't much better.

[umbral glade]

I am legit excited what bonds can do in the future

[stoic epoch]

Terraria x Orna crossover.

[umbral glade]

Moonlord pet when

[stoic epoch]

Odie replaces the Moon Lord.

Lol

[umbral glade]

A few days ago when i thought about how a unique bond for a pet could look like there were so many ideas

That would make my arisen glashtyn so much more viable and fun to use

Like a bond that makes his sigil aoe

Or a bond that auto applies a sigil t1 of a fight

Or making dark immune enenies only resistant with a sigil on

[stoic epoch]

Auto casting something like that would be fun.

[umbral glade]

Or a chance to apply debuffs when he uses his sigil

[stoic epoch]

Does the bonded att / mag only come from gear, or is it straight from your character's stat sheet? Does Hybrid Monster increase the benefit of bonded stats?

[umbral glade]

And i am sure there is plenty of design space for other pets, like medusa having a chance to petrify on every move

I honestly dont know what its like atm

[stoic epoch]

Lemme go see

I don't understand the math. Lindwurm should be getting 20% from attack and magic, but I can't reconcile the numbers.

For example:

Those are the stats with no weapon equipped

I equip this. If it's getting 20% of those stats, that's 343 to both att and mag.

But that's what I got.

So I was like, "OK, that means hybrid monster affects it right?"

These are my new stats with the a.fey crow. That's a difference of 2,827, so if the 20% comes out of that it should math out to an extra 565 points on both att / mag.

[polar locust]

👀

[stoic epoch]

But the difference between my non weapon stats Lindy and my weapon stats Lindy is 1028 attack and 1027 magic.

Maybe I should leave the math to Fux, Inarin, Major, and Knight.

There's something here I'm just not getting.

I mean, technically I shouldn't complain about the math working out so I've got nearly double the benefit I think I should be getting.

[umbral glade]

The weapon adds base atk/mag which then gets increased by pet stats/al? Idk cant load the screenshots due to bad internet

[stoic epoch]

Isn't the Ascension level already factored into the character stats screen?

[umbral glade]

As i said, just random guesses in hopes of something sticking

[stoic epoch]

Yeah, I got nothing.

[umbral glade]

Thats on base beo, right?

[stoic epoch]

Yarly

[umbral glade]

BeoA has better bonds, so i thought maybe thats why

[stoic epoch]

Negative, that's on base beo.

That'd be a clever catch, though.

[misty acorn]

Morning all. The al100 clearing I said I had trouble with was BeoA and cactus, beoH laughs at hordes

But I was doing like 90% orn gear horde clears with beoh, now it'll be less cause of the nerf and BeoA will have an easier time

If I optimized a build beoH can bard for like 600k

If there's anything I should test, tag me, Im gonna take a break from the discord after yesterday lol

[quiet hill]

I know he said that before he mirrored onto beta. I haven't followed close enough lately to know if he has had a better experience on the beta

Lol. And I should have kept reading before responding.

[umbral glade]

New "undead" bond

The aoe spells have been moved(?) To ancient jinn
I am not sure if i ever checked him before so idk if this is new

that jhin has enough skills to run call of jord2 for sure

[zealous vine]

Hi everyone,
so it is confirmed (or all are happy) that beoH will have only BB1 and, therefore, with phoenix gains +20% earth resistance? is it really useful?
Instead, beoO/A - Tamer will have 2 times BB1 ?
Sorry if already said, it's really a long thread

[umbral glade]

only the highest level of bonds apllies. So you cant have BB1 twice.
While bond 1 is not always the best, you do get some benefits out of it, some pets can have view distance on it, as an example. 20% earth resist might not be the best, but phoenix is already THE best so it evens out somehwat

[elder kettle]

[zealous vine]

Since the phoenix is ​​used for everything (also because without constant DC the damage isn't much), other buff pets could also have (through bonds) something useful to the beoH.
Concerning the tamer, beoO/A are almost forced to have the tamer, so his BB1 is useless.

[umbral glade]

tamer having bonds is for other classes that wants tamers pet act, they now get an added benefit which may make it viable (again)

[zealous vine]

ok for the other classes, which rarely uses the tamer at the t10/11, but for beo (all) it remains useless

[blazing hull]

imo lv1 bonds aren't worth locking your spec (at least until pet act rate is adressed)

[umbral glade]

you want tamer anyways, so the bond is an additional benefit

[blazing hull]

who wants it ? mages ? no because sequencer is stronger by far. RS ? they want berserk to much. tanks maybe...

[umbral glade]

realm used it for quite a while

[blazing hull]

where ?

[umbral glade]

in the history of the game

[blazing hull]

I mean, in which activity.

[umbral glade]

most of em

[blazing hull]

over raider ? that's unexpected.

[umbral glade]

back when pet act wasnt that available

[blazing hull]

oh before blackened, that makes sense (even if chimera already have very good buff rate)

but in current game, I don't see any scenario where tamer bond 1 is useful.

[rugged glade]

BB bonuses aren't finished yet. Maybe at the end, some class will use Tamer on some builds. And if not today, maybe in few maj and patches, who knows ? Better to add a door never walked in rather than having a wall

[umbral glade]

its an added benefit for something that is close to being viable

[zealous vine]

Not for Beo. It is a replica of something it already has... It's like, benefactor has battalions

[umbral glade]

that would be great

so you can use it on beo with the summon pets

its not designed to be a beo thing

its designed to make tamer more viable for other classes

[blazing hull]

Odie said it's a bug and ophion is supposed to have his own summon stat%

[umbral glade]

i was talking about

It is a replica of something it already has... It's like, benefactor has battalions

[blazing hull]

do we have an up to date list of all bonds buff somewhere ?

[umbral glade]

in the beta

i dont think somebody wrote them all down, especially as they change daily

[rugged glade]

Yeah

[umbral glade]

download the beta, make a character, build a bestiary, upgrade it, pop some giant tokens

and you have all the info everybody else has

[blazing hull]

i already have the beta, just didn't wanted to go through all pets

I've seen most lv1 bonds and definitely, it's not a selling point for tamer.

most if not all useful pets give earth res

[umbral glade]

it is ADDED BENEFIT not the main reason to take the spec

same reason t8 god classes have BB1

[blazing hull]

the earth res thing is strange, why just earth

[umbral glade]

other pets have lightning res

its a thematically fitting res for the family, animals = earth

and as Thelos said, they are subject to change

[blazing hull]

my point is, yes it's added benefits, but feels like you get a rise but paid in monopoly bill

[umbral glade]

lets be honest, does the Phoenix pet really need a strong bond

[blazing hull]

have I even spoke of phoenix ?

[umbral glade]

phoenix should get its wings ripped out and his neck broken

[blazing hull]

that's litteraly what I said in the feedback topic about phoenix

[umbral glade]

you talking about the 20% earth res, which is specific to phoenix and a couple of others

[blazing hull]

kill the bird so people will learn how to play without perma DC

[umbral glade]

and somebody else talked about phoenix specifically

[blazing hull]

earth res is on like 50% of the pets I looked

there are MANY beast pets

[zealous vine]

yes, I mentioned the phoenix because it is widely used with beoH. I'd also like to use something else and a valid BB1 on other pets might help

[elder kettle]

I think i dont understand criterion of 3lvl bond. What i need to do to have it?

[umbral glade]

be base beo or beoA

[elder kettle]

Oh, yes... I was Baha... 😅

[rugged glade]

Baha has just BB lvl 1 ?

[umbral glade]

2

[grave fog]

Baha is so utterly terrible to raid on

I hope it gets some sort of love from the changes

[jaunty linden]

Completely agree. So far in BeoH we have no other option than the AP (and the Chimera?). . Since there are so many different kinds of pets, I would like to have the option to use other pets.

[rugged glade]

Is it ? I was able to do any T9 raid without too much problem ._.
50% of the raid in one row, and I wasn't under DC at the time. No Lugus either

[grave fog]

Only way I can do 50% of Polly on mine is with Phoenix and it takes forever. Lindwurm, I lose survivability at about 2 mill

[umbral glade]

I always thought baha was kinda good-ish on raids but then again, i didnt really play other classes

[rugged glade]

Are you still a Bahamut right now ? maybe we can check your gear/method together ?

[grave fog]

Compared to 'new' Omni and Nyx?

[umbral glade]

As i said, i couldnt compare it since i dodnt play those

[rugged glade]

I totaly agree too, but it's hard to compete with a pet doubling your stats x)

[umbral glade]

Yea aphoenix is the godbird for a reason

Everytime i check the beta for new stuff i look at the phoenixes to see if they are still unchanged

[jaunty linden]

You are so right. Once we experience DC, we can't move on to other pets easily. Just an idea, but I wonder if there should be another route, like taking some of the pet's status and fighting it.

[umbral glade]

All the triple ups should be reduced from 100%

Thats a ridiculous multiplier

[noble stag]

nerfphoenixnerfphoenixnerfphoenix

[rugged glade]

Anyway I'm eager to see what's the next step for our Valhallan beta n_n

[elder kettle]

Would be nice to see stats of new pet spells in his abillities

This that he is learning from bond lvl

Also see level of "charge" for abilities like "nekroz II". Like in normal equipped spell

[umbral glade]

The added abilities in the follower tab is on the to-do list iirc

[stoic epoch]

I'm hoping we're getting the ability to swap pets on the fly during this beta.

[spring elm]

Not being able to link pets to loadouts is super annoying. No use giving VD bonds to pets if swapping to RS and back takes less time than swapping pets.

[polar locust]

I think they won't do that in this beta, but can be a thing

[misty acorn]

Hey, I was just thinking...
I would like to ask if the extra skills from the Dragon Event followers (Ymir etc) be removed or changed, a premature request because I can't test them, lol, but... I'll assume they have the dragon family stuff.

Since the dragons spend a lot of time casting blights, and the fact that they don't stick very often as it is, I foresee adding more buffs to their list more tedious to use. Ymir spams blight debuff until one sticks, then attacks. If he had all the other buffs from dragon bonds, I imagine that taking much longer, removing any consistency from any sort of gamemode. He doesn't crit so wyrms song is meh, ws3 MAYBE? Might be okay in raid because it would get more turns? Still not needed? What do you think?
Goryn son of mountains would have the same issue, people use him for ward sustain, and blights. I love using Bashe as well. Not so bad for him at least his moves can crit, but wyrm seal would be a downgrade for him.
As for the lower tier dragons, I haven't used them much but theyre popular amongst other classes to proc the blights, so I can't say much about those.

Thanks!

These are my favourite followers and I'd be sad if they weren't viable anymore

[floral glen]

Does beo. Arugia even need to use tamer besides getting the extra follower atk and action

Since they already get all 3 bond effects

[polar locust]

They get?

I thought was 2 same as beo base

[floral glen]

Yes beo aur gets all bond effects

[umbral glade]

beoA even has buffed bonds

they take tamer for the pet stats and most importantly the pet act

[floral glen]

Yes but technically tamer level 1 bond is useless for beoA right?

[umbral glade]

yes that part of tamer does nothing for beo

[floral glen]

They could have made tamer give level 2

[umbral glade]

wuld still not do anything for tamer

eh beo

besides beoh

[misty acorn]

Tamer is just big damage and more act, going BeoA without tamer would be real bad lol

The point of the class is pet offense etc and choosing anything besides tamer would be a big drop in power

Not saying other specs are useless but it you'd just lose lots of pet damage

[gentle wolf]

That's a valid point about the Draconian Era follower's, mirrors don't bring over your castle storage... So hmmm..
I would assume since some of them are rarer, they would get different bonds than the typical ones.

<@&448920498387288094> How do we request a beta feature, like adding the Draconian Era pets to the sandbox mode? Sorry I didn't want to @ Dangy.

[hasty knoll]

All bestiaries carry all followers on the beta

[umbral glade]

they do, but we cant access them due to codex requirement

[hasty knoll]

Oh, that's hilarious

Will fix

[umbral glade]

good stuff

[round shore]

the other other set of followers are the: stewards, jotun mnemonics, olympia mnemonics.

if people don't mirror over with 5 candles and 3 of each mnemonic they'd miss out on those also.
if possible, it'd be nice to have them freely available in the beta as well.

[umbral glade]

or a building to buy the items in if thats easier

[gentle wolf]

Or add them to the rune shop

[misty acorn]

Oh its the codex that stops them appearing, lol. I just thought they werent included

I cant test any stewards either all my spare candles were in my keep lol (same with the titans)

Ill do some pretty intense testing on the dragons once they are available

[polar cypress]

It has been like this for couple of beta iirc

[warm finch]

Not on mirrors though

[polar cypress]

Oooh

Makes sense

[warm finch]

Which is the issue, since mirrors don't copy keep

[misty acorn]

I hopped on my new beta character and tried the titan pets. They're pretty cool, building tower is interesting I had to look up what it does. It gives me a tiny heal each turn, only like 500hp but still. One thing I did notice is skadi didn't seem to make them favor offensive skills when I tried gymir vs my mirror. With skadi 2 he spammed lesser wall non stop. I had to flee haha 😂 1 shot would have ended either of us and it just didn't happen. He used offensive skills without a call. Maybe the lesser wall skills aren't assigned to a type or something? Not sure how that all works but yeah. Same with Ophion and the other titans, skadi 2 didn't seem to have much of an impact on choice, not as bad as gymir tho.

(tested using lute with pet stats added, no extra pet act)

I love how most followers move without investing in act, another thing I was hoping auriga would get 🙂

[polar locust]

That's a nice thing!

Then you have cactus 💀

[stoic epoch]

Not seeing any new bonds today.

No draconic Era pets in bestiaries yet, though Odie did acknowledge a fix in the works for that earlier so that's a positive.

No view distance on Gazers yet, though that may have been a joke.

@misty acorn @round shore @umbral glade @wicked sandal how do you guys feel about the current state of the Beo beta? What's still on our wishlist?

I always imagine Fux just poring over the data with a monocle.

[round shore]

before this beta, I would have said:

• beoO/beoA raiding is slow (mostly a power concern for follower-damage builds)
• beoO/beoA endless is very bad and painful (two separate concerns; about power/avg. depth + the mechanics of endless)
• beoA didn't stand out enough compared to beoO/beoH
• cactus lock-in for horde is unfortunate

I believe that raiding is now much better. Faction damage mattering is a cool 1.25x, the bonds represent another like 20-30% dps boost. Those are solid gains. It's still behind other classes mostly because of slower/lengthy setup, but... not bad.

I believe that endless depth is much better primarily due to 1.5x def/res at low hp on the player. BeoH endless is fine, and beoO/beoA endless should be better.
No changes related to the annoyance of pet swapping.

BeoA's enhanced bonds are okay. I feel like they could be stronger, and player damage could be even weaker to justify it. Mostly to separate beoO/beoA more than they already are separated.

Cactus lock-in has stayed the same. It got buffed, which I don't really understand. The other aoe pets, even with bonds, are just too far behind Cactus to be a real consideration for horde.

Patch feels like it has caused Lindworm lock-in, a bit. Lindworm was about the same or slightly better than the other raid pets before, but it got a comparatively large boost (since bond atk is flat +atk, and it starts with a low base atk) compared to the other raid followers. This is overall less than great as it constrains raid pet choice more than before.

---

Unrelated to all those things, I like bonds as a concept. I look forward to bonds being changed and massaged over time; they're a good balancing lever and a good place to insert theme and aesthetics. I like bondatk/bondmag in how they perturb gearing decisions.

[stoic epoch]

"Perturb"

"Agitate"

Like a washing machine

Gotta shake up that meta

[round shore]

looking forward to bondcrit, since that'd be a big gear change for pets that crit.

[stoic epoch]

I'm dropping pet adorns and pulling out my a.fey crowsong for BeoO raiding when this hits live.

[misty acorn]

So pre beta my thoughts were the same as fuxs, pets just way to weak. The fact i still deal 0 in pvp at100 is just silly.
Now I feel strong, and i tried lots of pets and i feel it went from a few usable pets to a tonne, which is sweet.
I still dont like bond skills AT ALL, i dont think theres a single on that adds anything, but thats just me
Cactus still kinda blows, and doesnt do much in pvp. but its the go to atk aoe pet, there should be an option for magic that is consistent, wanted that for a while.
Everyone here is obsessed with lindworm lol, i wont use it. It is strong tho!
Some pets dont respond to calls how you'd like, skadi 2 makes em spam buffs/defense skills for example.
BeoH is only slightly worse off because of the hands of selene nerf which is fair.
BeoOg sits nicely in the middle
BeoA is actually viable now for people who just never wanna use attacks of their own. Id say overall its really good.

I was swapping back and forth from live to beta using the same items, 5x10% follower stats and man the difference is freaking gargantuan

Pet stat augments feel like they do a hell of a lot now

but Im not sure what contributes to that

maybe i just push over that defense block with the buffs

Lots of arguments wether its even worth using Hyrdus or Auriga cause og is best of both, but H and A feel like sidegrades now and i think its pretty nice

[misty acorn]

What about you guys?

[polar locust]

I don't really know what to say since i not been testing recently 😅

It's good to read

[summer gulch]

I haven't been in beta, but bonds seem cool but underdeveloped.

Lot of pet conflict I hear and bonds seem to benefit beoh more than beoa

And beoo has more pet stats vs beoa when b3?

[misty acorn]

I'm trying Medusa and she's just using friendship in the arena, this move is really bad, I would like it removed entirely. It's awful

Basically ruins every pet that has it lol

Auriga does way more pet damage than og

[polar cypress]

Most of level 1 bond are meh, so no benefit for beoh

[misty acorn]

Also lindworm just uses all his new skills and this feels like a nerf more than a buff lol

This is why I said I dislike all new skills, they just ruin good pets

Makes him more balanced if a anything. He will use ws3 and wyrms song basically every fight

Raids probably okay but adding wyrm seal nerfs him too . Not that I use him enough to care just wanted you guys to know

So far the best pets are the ones with no useless skills added and the ones with new bond skills are worse

[polar cypress]

Fjarl is not benefitting from the new skill?

[misty acorn]

They need to be redone and the ones with 3 need to be reduced to 1

Aerial barrage might be stronger it's hard to check exactly but yeah

Bolt Volley on the magic pets is so bad, friendship should be erased and forgotten, the 3 dragon skills make them a pain to use in certain applications

None are good

The Mimics are unusable now cause they spam confuse and miasma as well

Literally useless

So the only pets I'd ever recommend are ones that have the new skills removed

[gentle wolf]

For Fjarl the bonded strikes feels like a solid attack, but it is still blown away by Aerial barrage. The skills activating twice on BeoA is always fun.

[misty acorn]

Bonded strikes nerfs fjalar

He already acted quite often so adding this weak skill didn't help at all, he's not the worst though at least that's an okay attack

The skills still need to be changed before this goes live

[regal bramble]

Well, I switched from Beo to Gilga Ursa and from my tests I didn't find anything that motivates me to go back to Beo, many of the pets are bad because they have skills and spells mixed in the moveset and I don't think there will be changes in this regard. My opinion.

[misty acorn]

Can't disagree with that decision man

Hope you enjoy gilga, it's awesome right now

[regal bramble]

I'm loving Gilga Ursa, it fits my playstyle perfectly and when I realized that it was a class focused on 2h weapons I was very happy. I REALLY like Beo but the recent changes made me move further away from the class instead of motivating me to come back

[misty acorn]

The new skills added take away consistency and I feel like that's an extremely important factor. Having a pet you can rely on you do what you want is what will make people use it. The new bond skills hurt every single pet so far. Fjalar only slightly suffers cause the skill is slightly weaker, but the rest need to be removed or changed otherwise the exact same pets will be used as they were before the patch

[gentle wolf]

So one of the questions should be, with the new bond system; how many of these pets that did get extra skills would be OP without them?

[misty acorn]

All would be better without them

They're all stronger (as in do more damage) but the new skills make them worse or less viable. They removed skills on the popular pets so they will be the ones used going forward if nothing gets changed.

Like even the less used ones like rhada for example, he now has friendship so on top of blights, attacks and ward upkeep he uses a completely useless skill too. Bolt volley is even added to the living armor thing, so he uses ward recovery less, and the damage is sooooo low it's embarrassing. Miasma and confuse on mightiest mimic, so less fey and Ultima use, it spams miasma like it's his job. It makes no sense. The dragons have 3 skills, they use them every fight, so that removed pvp viability in this meta, you'd die before they even attacked once

Not exaggerating btw

This has all happened

Skadi doesn't help enough

[summer gulch]

Through my pet I shall win with the power of friendship!

fs fails, gets nuked

[regal bramble]

We already suffered praying for the pet to use a decent skill before the buffs fall, increasing the amount of skills (and most of them pretty meh) only increases the chance of the pet doing something bad

[rugged glade]

Are you sure that those skills, added by BB, are fixed in regard of "act only when no other action would occur" ?

[misty acorn]

Nah that was misinterpreted

[rugged glade]

Oh ?

[misty acorn]

Yeah I got attacked cause I got confused by it as well lol

It was to help them act more, dw about it.

It's not used when nothing would happen instead

[rugged glade]

Sorry, what is "dw" ? x)

[misty acorn]

Don't worry

Dw

They're just always used lol

[rugged glade]

Oh ok thank you ! Since I'm not english I struggle sometimes

[misty acorn]

No problem

I hope people read what I said or we gonna have some annoyed people when this goes live lol

[gentle wolf]

For Mightiest Mimic, since it's a Storied rarity; instead of Miasma and Confuse, what about Putrid Breath OR Miasma III?

[summer gulch]

Toxic yesss

[misty acorn]

Nah it wouldnt get used man it's gonna spam miasma in raids making it unusable

[summer gulch]

I love me some good dots

[misty acorn]

Pvp opponent with briny?

You lose it's gonna spam it

[gentle wolf]

Even with the AI improvements?

[summer gulch]

Oh heck I forgot about brin

[misty acorn]

I can test it right now lol

[summer gulch]

Brin is where status immunity became both a blessing and a curse

[regal bramble]

To be honest, I agree with Dejct about the skills getting in the way, but since it's about having new skills, it would be fair if they had better skills

[summer gulch]

What b3 does g.yokai have?

Speaking of dot

[misty acorn]

Best ai

Now watch it spam miasma for days and it do nothing

It's using it over and over lol

This is what I mean

It turns a good offensive pet into a piece of crap

[regal bramble]

My final opinion, remove all additional skills, improve bonds and give us a hybrid gait

[misty acorn]

No one is going to use these pets

I said remove all the skills and got told to be Happy

[blazing hull]

bro trying to kill the few deities still in the game... 😢

[summer gulch]

Explain, how would hybrid gait? All offense up but all defense down?

[misty acorn]

People think I'm stupid lol

[rugged glade]

I really think there is a misunderstanding somewhere on that subject

[gentle wolf]

You know, when I first saw the Ability+ text when this first came out; I thought the game was giving us the players, a extra skill.

[regal bramble]

or half

[misty acorn]

It doesn't add anything I was saying that since the beginning, I've played beo for so damn long

This is what trying to use pets with bond skills is like

[rugged glade]

<@&448920498387288094> Is it ok to ping Odie if we are a bit confused with what is intended to on the beta ? Just one, of course

[blazing hull]

consider Odie is watching you at all time

[misty acorn]

Every single time it could have attacked

[gentle wolf]

Does the AI+ only look at element immunity? What if they add status immunity too?

[misty acorn]

Dont ping him if you're confused lol

I did write quite a lot above... Hopefully it gets heard

[regal bramble]

Bonds are good and cool but it's the skills that are letting it down

[misty acorn]

Yes

In almost every case they're just frustrating as hell and a nerf

If you could pick them, or turn em off or just remove them entirely they would be perfect

[polar cypress]

This ability of customise the skill could be interesting

[regal bramble]

It would be really cool if the player had access to the skills and not the pet

[polar cypress]

So we can spam friendship together

[gentle wolf]

I like the concept of Ability+, but let's pivot a little bit. What if it was like Passive+ like built-in calls or something:

Or class passives.

[regal bramble]

The power of friendship,beautiful

[regal bramble]

To be honest I don't even know why we have call 2

[misty acorn]

I'm off to sleep I hope my recent tests get read 🙂 night all

[hasty knoll]

Well, by pinging moderator, you are pinging me anyway 😉

[rugged glade]

... Ah x)

Sorry x)

I really wanted to be polite and respectful of your time x)

[hasty knoll]

To make this chat more useful to the beta, let's try the following:

1. please try to avoid repeating things are "awful", a "nerf", "disgusting", etc. This is unnecessary noise that makes it harder and harder to find useful feedback

2. rather than repeating how awful the current skills are, let's try proposing adjustments or replacements to them. If a kit doesn't currently meet a follower's need, let's propose another bond set for them

I'm sure some of this has been done, but it's becoming pretty difficult to digest this channel when it is oversaturated with complaints. Sorry 😦

[hasty knoll]

Great feedback here - measuring outcome, concise. Let's see more of this!

[blazing hull]

bonds are an awfully good concept. It's disgustingly pleasant to build craft around them.

[hasty knoll]

blocked!

[blazing hull]

oof

[gentle wolf]

gasp

[gentle wolf]

So what if a high rarity Golem follower with BB3 added Shoulders of Giants to us?

Let's discuss possible balance implications.

[grave fog]

Anyone know if RoR effects floor rewards in towers?

[south sleet]

wrong channel

but probably no

we would have known if xpless had tower access

[grave fog]

Silly me :p

[summer gulch]

Who had the gyokai b3?

Cus me wanna see

[warm finch]

I see that Friendship is a bit of a sore point skill among basically everyone here

How would you like to see the spell changed?

Could become a different spell, could increase in power, could do something additional

[blazing hull]

what does it do ?

[south sleet]

my ideal cactus friendship/bond/whatever new stuff is something that makes sure it doesn't use single target when there's more than 1 mob on screen

[polar locust]

Buff defs

[warm finch]

Friendship gives a partywide t.buff afaik

[blazing hull]

Mimic new spell : "Trick of the Mimic : next turn your follower performs the same action than you do (effectively being a 2 turn spell)

act as a double cast

[south sleet]

did anyone suggest serk2/3 as chim friendship/bonds?

[warm finch]

What if instead, friendship gave t.att/mag/res/def and with a 100% chance of application?

[south sleet]

i don't think i have seen any said it

[warm finch]

Friendship is an actual spell, not an alternate name for bonds

[summer gulch]

yessss, but itll still spam this skill annoyingly

[south sleet]

me not good with terms

[blazing hull]

isn't that already called realmshift ?

[warm finch]

It won't use it if you already have at least one of those buffs

[south sleet]

so i just use whichever

but yeah, serk2 or 3 on chims

[warm finch]

Yes. But better.

[blazing hull]

too op imo

[polar locust]

I would like that

[south sleet]

no one would complain it's shit though

[summer gulch]

it would make group more appealing

[polar locust]

And if not repeat until had that skill as you mentioned

[south sleet]

which is a win

[summer gulch]

but i have no friends to which i can farm with

😭

hears distant summoner laughing

[polar locust]

Randoms for the win

[south sleet]

since i'm sure if i suggested some random attack everyone will say it sucks just like the usual

will all the existing hate towards the new skills

[warm finch]

The skills just need to be better than what the pet has to offer, otherwise they dilute the move pool

[summer gulch]

i could not agree more

that is based take

[warm finch]

Either with the moves being one-and-done (like zerk would be), have good AI (not spam it if you already have one of the buffs), dealing more damage than the other moves, or have it be situational, and smart when using it

[blazing hull]

bond skills can't really be too strong for the reason they're commun to every pets of a family. this make it very hard to balance without having pets being too strong or not enough.

[warm finch]

Thing is though, only t10s have access to bond skills

Which means, for the most part, only t10 pets will be used

Lindwurm aside.

[summer gulch]

baha with tamer cant b3?

[warm finch]

Nope

[summer gulch]

ah

[warm finch]

They don't add up

[blazing hull]

like every animals have underwhelming bonds because of phoenix.

[rugged glade]

We could make a list of followers and propose general effects we would want to see ? Like "Quetzacoalt : damage skill with more damage for each blight on opponents"

[south sleet]

do we really have to worry about it going to be too strong that beo suddenly wins against everything in all contents though?

beo has been historically the worst at everything

aside from starting up your endgame grind

[blazing hull]

this is the price for being such a nuisance in T9 pvp with the red ball

[south sleet]

which is also taken over by gs now

[summer gulch]

i feel beo shines in pve overworld

[south sleet]

are people gonna cry like in calling for ultima nerfs when chim gets serk2 or something?

[umbral glade]

The feedback of my pinned comment, for me, is still the same:
For the current system to be successful, in my opinion, we need the following:

• Every pet, that is supposed to attack, has a form of Bond Atk/Mag
• The unlocked skill from the tier 3 bond should be one of, if not THE strongest move in its entire move pool
• added moves should never make you go "I wish I didn't have this"
• Level 3 bond should always be more desirable than level 2 bond
• More families are needed as to not run into issues of "this dmg pet has a support skill" or "this magic/debuff pet is in the attacking family"

[blazing hull]

at this point, just give'em raid ultimate

VSS : "you are weak..."
enemy : chuckles I'm in danger

[south sleet]

• added moves should never make you go "I wish I didn't have this"

odie's probably tired of seeing this based on his point # 2 that people needs to just start giving direct suggestions

[warm finch]

One and Done effects: Prism Wall; Zerk; Alignment(s), Gait(s), Stance(s)

Repeatable but Infrequent effects: The proposed Friendship change, (advanced) Swordplay, Towering

More damaging variants: Lizard Strikes, Ele7s, Realmstrikes

Situational: Lacuna/Lacunus, Ultima if target has Weaknesses, Miasma 3

[south sleet]

a serk 2 on chim won't make me say i wish i didn't have this

[blazing hull]

I think bond spell should all be offensive because if you've bond3 you're playing pet damage and probably never attack yourself.

[summer gulch]

pls no egg

towering make my redline cry

ele7 owo we edge closer to lvl 9 spells

dnd wish time

[warm finch]

Ele7's on Ymir

[summer gulch]

!

[blazing hull]

I would had that making all bonded spells offensive will make most if not all pets viable by giving them at least 1 good attack spell

[polar locust]

I would like to see the bond skills appear in the skills section

Have to go into bestiary to remind what bond the pet has

[warm finch]

I would like to see bond spells be given a magic and a physical variant within the same family, and the pet intelegently deciding which to use based on its stats

So that you don't run into different-types-of-same-family-attackers

[blazing hull]

or auriga could give hybrid monster to the pet

[summer gulch]

13k hybrid stat pets be like: 💣

would be fun tho

[blazing hull]

i mean, it's not like they attack every turn with there best move anyway

[warm finch]

Oops, lindwurm has 255k attack again

[hasty knoll]

Yup, this is definitely pretty common feedback from what I've seen. To help us drive the beta forward, let's get some more specifics out there:

For 1) Which follower classes don't meet this right now?
For 2) What proposals are there to make this true?
For 3) Which level 3 bonds feel less desirable than level 2?
For 4) This had been developed, tbf. What followers do you find are currently in the wrong classification?

Again, specifics are going to move this forward. We've got plenty of these opinions well documented, so repeating them will be less useful then helping solution them

[blazing hull]

what if bond 3 was auriga specific so you could go crazy with the spell added (like raid ultimate level of crazy) ?

[hasty knoll]

Let's focus on the current bonds for now 🙂

[polar cypress]

I think that anything has friendship or mimic skills (confused, miasma) has a level 3 bond that is "worse" than a level 2 bond

[polar locust]

The miasma spam doesn't help when i want it to use ultima

[polar cypress]

Dunno if the "no act pool" you were talking about at the beginning of beta is still a thing, but everytime those followers use friendship and similar instead of another skill is a turn wasted

As a general feeling about friendship: it should be the beo buffing the follower and not the other way around (unless is you phoenix)

[summer gulch]

im not against a support beo for group play ngl

[umbral glade]

that is still wrong, please refer to the pinned comments

[summer gulch]

but when it limits offense pets im like ehh

[blazing hull]

the thing is bond 3 is pretty much pet build specific, and any non-damaging skill with said build can be considered a wasted turn. Only exception being base Beo trying to attack himself with a buffing pet.

[south sleet]

mimic miasma spam is not bad if it stops after the 1st cast knowing the target is immune

or just not casting at all

the spam when immune is the bad part about it

i'm all for debuff friendship/bonds if this is how it works

but currently it isn't, so yeah it sucks

[polar cypress]

Ok so if we have max act rate having friendship is terribile since it will hinder the DPS, if we don'tt friendship will be something like "ok you wouldn't attack anyway, so thanks for the buff"?

[south sleet]

yes

unless something changed already

[regal bramble]

I'm not in favor of having skills at bond lv3, but since they exist they should be stronger than any existing skills in the pet's moveset

[polar cypress]

Anyway I would rather have a desiderable skill that has same chance of others at normal act rate than this no act bucket thing

[regal bramble]

Because if it's for the pet to spam the skill that at least uses a decent skill

[warm finch]

Miasma/confusion bond rework proposal:

[Vile Trickery]: Deals low non-elemental damage and has a high chance of infliting a high amount status effects (annwn+blight+poison+toxic+bleed). These status effects ignore Steadfast and Immunities.

Won't cast Vile Trickery while the opponent has at least 1 status effect on them

Keeps the flavour, loses the unappealing (I hope?)

[blazing hull]

the ignore immunity part is a bit weird. raids are immune for a reason.

[warm finch]

The ignore immunity part is to prevent the spamming

Could make it so it doesn't apply turn-skipping debuffs

Raids being immune to pure damage dealing ones (rot burn bleed poison) is honestly quite archaic

[blazing hull]

poison classline when ?

[south sleet]

ok that also work, i'm sold

anything that prevents useless debuff spam

confuses a raid turn 1 and then makes it cast ult turn 2 instead of something else

[umbral glade]

My comment was a summary of "what I think bonds need to fulfil to be a successful mechanic" - many of these points are happening by now.

Re: wrong bond: My boy Arisen Glashtyn still has a dex/atk bond

ill write some more specific stuff up a bit later

Another specific thing: Ward bond still ain't worth a damn

Cthulhu is a mimic - idk if its intended

Very scary Skeleton - a physical attacker has mage bonds

(i haven't tested this in a bit) Boulder Toss never procced

Scruug's, known for envy and greed, use friendship

[blazing hull]

christmas magic

[umbral glade]

(havent tested in a while) the 4 added aoe spells used Wildfire in 95% even into immunes

[regal bramble]

I really liked the bond A LOT, it increased our firepower and that's great, however, I would really like pets with a hybrid moveset to be useful for Beo. The medusa was a pet that I really liked, but because it has a hybrid moveset, it's not feasible for Beo because we can't use any gait.

[round shore]

I wish there was a way to fix the hybrid pets (with mixed attacks/spells), but it feels out of scope for the beta.
They've always played badly in a world with gaits... since day 1. It'd be a change that improves pet variety, but not necessarily about balance.

[wicked sandal]

Miasma 3 would be pretty nice since it's an actual damaging move

I don't think we're getting a raid ult on our followers though

[hasty knoll]

Does the change is this beta not address that? With AI bonus, they'll choose skills based on applied buffs

[stoic epoch]

Uh

Maybe it's not working?

I haven't really noticed a difference.

[umbral glade]

when was that added

[stoic epoch]

Unless that was added in the last day or so.

Maybe it's undertuned.

Maybe tweak the variables so it more prefers buffed skills.

[round shore]

seems to be working.

gunnr dpeg: forbid, trample, gloomstrike, gloomstrike, forbid, gloomstrike, gloomstrike, gloomstrike, cshad (first magic use)
swap snotra: FA, forbid, forbid, forbid, FA, forbid, gloomseal, gloomseal...

no, this is great. didn't even know it was in this changeset

[hasty knoll]

May 3rd would have been when (the last edit of the patch notes)

[umbral glade]

this is likely just subjective, but does it feel like skadi2 has less impact on the beta to anybody else?

[wicked sandal]

lindworm still got in a couple wyrmseals and magic daggers with gunnr, but that may be because it has no access to an attack until lyon's mark is applied

[stoic epoch]

Maybe that's why I don't think it's working, I'm always messing with Lindy or the Cactus.

[hasty knoll]

Right...they'll need the ability to capitalize first 🙂

[wicked sandal]

How much smart ai boost did you use for this? I'm trying with nidhogg now and with auriga + fallen sky legs it still uses lusus/wyrmseal pretty often with gunnr

[round shore]

that dpeg is very smartai heavy.
beoA passive boost, and 2piece smartAI.

wasn't intentional, just threw on a loadout with some amount of pet gear

oh this is funny.

gunnr testing with Colossus; it uses Onslaught nonstop. lugus procs t.mag^^^, it starts using Stone Stare (for small amounts of damage).

-90% is a little more than +100% 😅 but it sees the temp mag buff.

[wicked sandal]

yeah I think that might be one of the issues with nidhogg, it's giving itself single mag up and temp mag up with ws3 and wyrms song

[round shore]

guess that makes lugus/realmshift a bit awkward with the hybrid pets

[wicked sandal]

if it could acknowledge the gaits downside as large enough to forgo physical/magical respectively that would be great

[stoic epoch]

With just the BeoO base ai bonus and Medusa:

Snotra: Stone Stare, Stone Stare, Full Bend 2, Magic Chakram, Magic Chakram, Stone Stare, Magic Chakram, Stone Stare, Friendship, Magic Arrow 4.

So 8 of 10 abilities were chosen correctly with minimum ai.

Gunnr: 9 of 10 abilities chosen correctly.

[wicked sandal]

Did you have any buffs other than gaits?

try with wyvern speed giving both single ups

[stoic epoch]

Negative, just WoO and Divine Bastion 2.

Sec

OK yeah that fucks with it

With no att / mag buffs the pet respects the gait mostly

[regal bramble]

I did a quick test here with the medusa

Gunnr: Friendship 2x, Full bend, Arrowstorm, Fullbend, Arrowstorm.

Snotra: Friendship, StoneStare, Magic Chakram, Friendship.

[stoic epoch]

The second you buff with both mag and att buffs the pet stats ignoring the gait again

[regal bramble]

No AI set

[round shore]

I think... the magnitudes of the buffs aren't being weighed quite right. Gunnr/Snotra -90% downside is being weighed as heavily as like +25% temp atk/mag upside.

[stoic epoch]

That sounds true

So yeah, just tweak those variables

[stoic epoch]

Same setup as before, just now I've got single att / mag / dex buffs from wyvern speed 2. Using Medusa.

Gunnr: 5 of 10 moves were magic, 3 Friendships. 2 Full Bends.

Snotra: 5 of 10 moves were magic, 2 Friendships, 3 Full Bends.

[regal bramble]

Hmmm looks like we won't be able to use mimic or wyvern speed.

[stoic epoch]

He'll fix it

It's clearly not working right.

[round shore]

the perm buffs don't bother me as much, because warcry/magboost and bears/jinns exist.
the temp buffs are a bigger problem. not being able to make use of e.g. lugus is rough.

[umbral glade]

even the perm buffs if hybrid base beo is something you wanna do

[stoic epoch]

There's gotta be a variable in there he can tweak to make the ai respect the gait more than the buffs.

[round shore]

perm buffs don't matter for hybrid base beo. atk^^ doesn't improve verse/lusus damage, etc.

[regal bramble]

That's exactly what came to my mind, we would be stuck in atk or mag, never both

[round shore]

that's already kinda the case with Gunnr/Snotra

[umbral glade]

which would be fine - for every class besides THE hybrid class

[stoic epoch]

Like, the Gait should be what the pet ai respects because that's the player saying what damage they want to cause

[hasty knoll]

let's wait for fix

[regal bramble]

I will never lose turns against Cerus again

[polar locust]

Kinda out of context, almost at 10k messages in this chat

[umbral glade]

maybe that change is why i felt like skadi(2) has stopped working

did anybody else feel that way

[regal bramble]

we are desperate

[umbral glade]

or am i just going crazy with that

[polar locust]

Yeah beo needs better things and is getting them

[umbral glade]

anybody else with call of skadi troubles?

[stoic epoch]

What pet are you using to test that?

[umbral glade]

random stuff with non attacks

TMM felt the worst

[stoic epoch]

Sec

[stoic epoch]

That could just be the bond abilities going crazy at 100% pet act, which is already a complaint.

[umbral glade]

yea that might just be it, testing around a bit, feels like its working better/like intended now

humans no longer want to be your friends

they want a "grand rally" now

[hasty knoll]

fix is out

[warm finch]

Well that was fast

[umbral glade]

any info on the "skills get shown in the follower tab"

[stoic epoch]

I tested skadi 1 and 2 using Ortanite golem.

6 of 10 turns the pet used Guarding Strikes. 4 turns he used WoO.

Skadi 2 was similar.

Still not using Boulder toss

[umbral glade]

eh