Valhallan Changes

[summer gulch]

This is a rumor tho

I'm talking vaugly from memory

I agree with complex ai settings though

Reminds me of ai programing in games like starbit ships or whatever that game was called

[stoic epoch]

Or the Gambit system from Final Fantasy 12

[summer gulch]

I'm not familiar bc not a final fantasy fan (besides tactics, despite not playing)

[last bane]

maybe we need some out of battle pet boost?
i mean some sort of pet house, pet food, pet brush to rise his stats before the battle and get out of t9 DPS?

[hasty knoll]

it's not really a problem of complexity, it's one of competitiveness. Gambit system worked well in a 100% PvE experience - in a PvP world, AI cheese will be too common

[summer gulch]

I actually agree

8bit starships had a lot of ai cheese

Like ALOT

Anyway, not seeing a lot of beoA talk aside from "bonds don't really benefit beoAs"

Is the class really that barren 😭

Cus It's the first and only class I invested in for celestial in live and I'm sad to see not a lot of discussion from betas

[last bane]

There are too few Beowulfs to organize a mass sob like RS's

[summer gulch]

Fair

[umbral glade]

we dont need mass sob, we need high quality sob

[noble stag]

I mean that's like the only complaint

[last bane]

Any ideas how realize this? :)

[umbral glade]

i am doing my take on the bestial bonds google doc atm

idk if i would call THAT high quality

but maybe more a "proof on concept"

[summer gulch]

Hopefully vd to def/res helps but like my complaint in live is that double act feels so infrequent, doesn't matter. Loss of stats and dragon immunity does not make up for the slight pet stat increase. And what boost there is, just makes beoA slightly better in raid than beo, which, not justified really.

Getting beoA losing dragon immunity and a good bit of hp, then getting nuked in tower from dragon types was a rough first impression

[umbral glade]

the idea of "BeoH is mainly player with help of pet", Base beo being "Equal work share" and BeoA being "player supportish and pet damaging" is nice for the side grades

[summer gulch]

Anyways redline def/res boost seems cool

[umbral glade]

i think bestial bonds is the big topic now

giving us more damage multipliers can be a numbers tweak

if its just "VD doesnt give beoA atk/mag but increase in double act"

[summer gulch]

No, I like the idea of each side grade I just thing beoA pet doesnt do enough to justify

[umbral glade]

those can be numbers to tweak

[summer gulch]

Like this

[last bane]

Bonds now mostly useless(
Or they need grand rework, or total deletion

[umbral glade]

is there a attack / magic that has a "dispel" like effect thats not just dispel 1 or 2

i am mostly done with my google doc thingy but i lack ideas for a few

i wanted the "human" type to be more supporty

[wicked sandal]

I mean beoA does do pure follower better than base. It's just that pure follower is not good, relative to other ways to play game

[umbral glade]

a dispel like effect would be cool

[wicked sandal]

which I guess you could call a beoA issue or just a beo issue in general

[umbral glade]

i think beoA and base Beo dont have enough differences

BaseBeo should fight actively with the pet, sharing the work

while BeoA should give up its stats, not smack stuff all the time, and empower its pet

[summer gulch]

More than it does rn^

Cus rn it just doesn't seem enough, imo

[wicked sandal]

With the change to dissonance, base beo is now properly set up to be able to do this. The thing is though that it's difficult to lean into both at the same time

[umbral glade]

getting pets up to par with realm strikes / ultima juiced up endgame players

is another thing

[stoic epoch]

Disable it for pvp

[umbral glade]

what could be the ultimate "mimic" type move

[summer gulch]

My beoA juiced out can do 40-50k t1 then 60k when buffing

Depending on def stats, AP golem would 0 me out fast

[wicked sandal]

Metronome from pokemon

[umbral glade]

that would be sick, ngl

[summer gulch]

I belive in beomax gems and blah blah

[umbral glade]

i am adding it to the list lmao

[wicked sandal]

It's more of a nerf than a buff to tmm but it definitely fits mimics

[stoic epoch]

Make it copy the last skill / ult the enemy used

[umbral glade]

i'll post my list in a minute, feel free to chip in ideas then please ❤️

finding a fitting theme for "common" pets is.. difficult

[last bane]

What about giving BeoH AoE skill based on hybrid? :D

[stoic epoch]

I don't have access to Odie's data, but I'd guess that Beo is the least played class in terms of being players long-term main.

[summer gulch]

Me

I love beo

[stoic epoch]

I fucking love Beo

[summer gulch]

But finding other long term beos has just not been a thing

[umbral glade]

i think beo is very niche but its players are dedicated

[last bane]

Beo the best!

[umbral glade]

thats often the case with those kinda classes

[wicked sandal]

According to fux's data some time ago it was surprisingly split actually, although beo was the least used iirc

[umbral glade]

beo is often recommended when just reaching t10

i think many people stick with it

[manic nimbus]

Lets not forget some new t10 players go beo for ease of gear and then swap to other classes so they are able to do t10 levels of damage

[umbral glade]

or dabble with ascension and get sunk cost fallacied

[stoic epoch]

But that means there are less of us to generate ideas.

And I'll be honest, I'm just not as much of a realistic idea kinda guy as Fux or Inarin.

[manic nimbus]

I still believe that a true boost to Ascension Synergy would truly benefit beo/beoA as a whole

[hasty knoll]

it varies by content, as endgame players do swap classes for some content, but beo is not the least used class overall

[summer gulch]

"So beo is mediocre in late game"

[umbral glade]

its arch druid isnt it

i still desprise arch druid

[hasty knoll]

only looking at t10 data

[umbral glade]

[manic nimbus]

Well, i hate to say it but if you compare to other classes yes (except maybe horde farming)

[stoic epoch]

If we're not at the bottom, was it RS?

[wicked sandal]

I don't think beoH particularly needs a specless hybrid aoe since it's a good user of sweep, dance, and vesta 2

[hasty knoll]

gilga and beo are nearly tied

[stoic epoch]

Wait, Gilga is at the bottom?!

[summer gulch]

I agree that beo gets outperformed by most other classes

[manic nimbus]

I wonder what they are most used at because raiding as gilga is a high speed train while with beo is walking speed

[hasty knoll]

gilga definitely wins for play count in raids

[manic nimbus]

All my comments are related to beo/beoA only

[summer gulch]

Beo so slow in raids 😭

[manic nimbus]

Not including hydrus on this equation

[summer gulch]

Safe tho

[wicked sandal]

gilga is pretty particular as a class

[manic nimbus]

The safest raid is a dead raid :p (mwahah)

[summer gulch]

Fact

[wicked sandal]

tank as an archetype isn't generally that popular

[stoic epoch]

I never would have guessed Gilga in a million years.

[manic nimbus]

I honestly feel the only thing that beo/A lacks atm is raiding speed

[wicked sandal]

and gilga is more of a warrior/tank hybrid that only shines later

[stoic epoch]

I've seen Forg do crazy off the wall shit with it

[umbral glade]

can anybody pitch in real quick as to which class has access to bestial bonds currently

[wicked sandal]

225 gilga is an experience I'll tell you that

[manic nimbus]

Worse than a 225 beo? Xd

[warm finch]

225 beo is optimal beo

[ivory birch]

way worse

[wicked sandal]

beo is quite good early

[ivory birch]

beo gets a solid weapon right at 225

[stoic epoch]

Beo, Beo A, Beo H, and Tamer spec

[umbral glade]

225 beo is kinda good

[umbral glade]

there is more, god classes also got it

[warm finch]

God classes too

[manic nimbus]

Well yes but after 226 it gets stale

[stoic epoch]

Oh, really?

[hasty knoll]

and baha, freyr, dk

[noble stag]

t8 and 9 gods also have it

[umbral glade]

all t9? t8? god classes

[summer gulch]

"Valhallan"

[warm finch]

God classes got mini-Deity passive, too

They needed some love and got some love :)

[wicked sandal]

Makes sense, t8-9 gods were kinda bad

[summer gulch]

I remember when Valhallan was just warrior branch, the change in term was a good one

[manic nimbus]

I wonder if a passive like "Valhallan's Rally: pets do 30% more dmg to raids" would help

Quite proud I typed valhallan correctly while fast typing

[summer gulch]

It takes a set up but my fjalalalr can do 1m dmg crits (very rng)

[manic nimbus]

Well yes, mine can do more but the stars need to align

I wish that rng aspect of raid damage would be removed/eased

We have the con of being rather squishy, low player damage and we have to juggle between buffs, ward, temp buffs, statuses

In the end to do less dmg than other t10s

Gilga buffs, uses ss, kill. Realm buffs, uses realmstrikes, kill. Heretic, same same

That is literally my only complaint about beo as i love the class to death

[noble stag]

gsh summons skeletons, kills them, summons dragons, buffs and then uses blood pact

honestly wish more classes got a cool rotation other than spam buffs

[stoic epoch]

Raid speed is my main complaint.

[noble stag]

like the heretic ara sigil gimmic

[manic nimbus]

Yes but not 20 extra steps to do LESS damahe

[umbral glade]

i said it before, double act proccing FEELS great, but if its not proccing it does not feel good

[manic nimbus]

An added rng to an already rng raid scene

I dislike it

[stoic epoch]

Love the double act on Auriga

It feels powerful

[manic nimbus]

Thing is... For example: heretic sequencer dmg with 1 act is cool. With 2 it is wow! Beo is okay when double acts

[stoic epoch]

It feels powerful for us

Sorry

[summer gulch]

When it procs 😭 the 25% feels so low and I do enjoy it but man it's not enough proc, imo

[manic nimbus]

It feels like that but it is an added rng on top of already existig rng

[summer gulch]

It's like pog when it procs, and when it doesn't I just fele like a meh beo upgrade

[manic nimbus]

The pet needs to choose the good damage skill. Check? Okay so now it needs to double act. Check? Result: okay damage

It feels powerful because otherwise we do meh damage

[polar locust]

The daily life with beo, doing 1M dmg with aerial then next move 90k with evasive strikes 💀

[stoic epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/it-doesnt-feel-good-michael-che-saturday-night-live-nope-its-a-no-gif-16623028

[manic nimbus]

Indeed :/

[polar locust]

That's why i changed for rs in raids

[manic nimbus]

And lets not forget the buffs you had to get and etc in order to HAVE A CHANCE of doing 1m dmg

Something "easily" achieved with another class

[polar locust]

Yeah, some 15 rounds

[manic nimbus]

I just go hydrus xD

[polar locust]

Jk, it's not that many, but quite some rounds and buffs

[summer gulch]

I was gonna switch to hera in raids but I hear crit nerfing Is strong atm

[stoic epoch]

Try like 20+. Gotta get your elemental resistances, your att buffs, gunnr, golems, Barrier 2

[wicked sandal]

realms and heretics were dealing millions even before celestials, they'll be fine

[polar locust]

I dont go hera or other class because realm is my second better class with gear atm

[manic nimbus]

I refuse to play anything else other than beo and its celestials 🤣 only class that i enjoy

And i want it to be good and not a meme class everyone uses for pet buffing

[stoic epoch]

That's my thing, if I wanted to be a heretic or rs I'd just go heretic or rs

[polar locust]

Still thinking if is worth to buy beoA or not, dont want to spend shards to be disappointed

[stoic epoch]

Like, we've stuck with the class despite it's issues

[summer gulch]

Ngl jord 2 is pog

Saved my butt in towers so many times

[manic nimbus]

You will end eventually getting both. I use both though hydrus truly feels like a t10 class

[wicked sandal]

I think beoH as a player dmg class is good though. It's a very comfortable class due to its innately high offense, bonus crit rate, pet action rate, no need to red/blue line, and you can use whatever skill you want to decent effect.

[umbral glade]

Okay, my write up after thinking about this bestial bonds idea for a bit
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IIGeSUFLikUEsM1c2xL3TdL7Mj1kI14PAvCMc3KA6cU/edit?usp=sharing

[wicked sandal]

sure redlined rs and bluelined heres are faster but for a comfortable and versatile class, beoH is really good

[manic nimbus]

Yes i agree

[polar locust]

I'm the kind of the player who likes to focus more on pet (that's why i mained beo for so long) so maybe beoA would be the best for me, but i like to deal damage too (if needed) to support

[manic nimbus]

And the bestial bonds might be a nice spice up (if the effects get changed ofc)

[summer gulch]

I said it b4 and I'll say it again. slams hand on table vd is diet diety redline passive

Whatever that's passive is called

Literally the same premise but affects pet stats too

[polar locust]

Very interesting

[summer gulch]

^

Like the suggestions

[wicked sandal]

the value is more akin to realmshifters resurgence, since deity has red+blue

[summer gulch]

But also ADD go brr and I can't read all that at once cx

[umbral glade]

any ideas or suggestions, i am more than happy to add

i just wrote down what came to my mind, trying to tie it into the themes of the given classes

[stoic epoch]

Like the suggestions. Can we get raid damage increases tacked on to the lvl 3 bonds as well?

[summer gulch]

What I did read I liked ngl

[polar locust]

The Golems you said doesn't exist, steward golem and other golems mobs aren't from that family?

[umbral glade]

i dont think a "golem" family is a thing atm

[wicked sandal]

there just is no golem family in codex

[polar locust]

Was cool if existed because it makes sense for me

[umbral glade]

i just went by the list in the pinned comment

if that is wrong i will shift all of the blame

[stoic epoch]

Golems are Giants

[umbral glade]

i mean

[stoic epoch]

Including the Undead Golem

[umbral glade]

adding a new family

would not be impossible

i just always loved the idea of a spiked shield using pet

and i think it fits on the golems as their theme is "ward"

again, its just a proof of concept, idk what is possible within the game

[polar locust]

Oh ok

[stoic epoch]

Except for the lower tier Lesser Golem, apparently that's an "Animal"

[umbral glade]

that would also be an easy change

[graceful gust]

Gilga tied for least played class I knew it haha

That's ok, warrior for life 😎

[stoic epoch]

No, apparently Gilga is played overall slightly less. Beo doesn't completely lose for once.

[graceful gust]

Oh really?

Grats Beos! lol

[stoic epoch]

According to Odie

[umbral glade]

gilga is used more in raiding

[graceful gust]

Yeah no mana pots I suppose

[umbral glade]

it also is good

[errant sigil]

Right now, pet damage is crazy good at T9 (who remembers getting one shot by a Crimson Gazer back in the day), good at early T10, then falls off very fast at end game. Pet beos are just sitting ducks waiting to be one shot at end game levels

[stoic epoch]

Oh, we suck at pvp defense for sure

But the one-shot meta is alive and well for us.

[errant sigil]

Highly ascended pet beos can be alright against newer T10s since their pet reliably attacks and not everyone has figured out that PvP defense requires you to basically have a one skill loadout to prevent your character from doing random buffs instead of attacking

[umbral glade]

somebody said yesterday that they are really good at punching down but bad at punching up

and that GS is even better punching down

(and up)

[wicked sandal]

hydrus punches up pretty well

[errant sigil]

There should probably be an "attack only" AI defense option alongside sabateur, paladin, etc.

[umbral glade]

most beo's are not hydrus thou

[stoic epoch]

I was about to say, Hydrus has none of the pet beo hallmark problems

[errant sigil]

Because Hydrus is basically a realmshifter or heretic that happens to be in the beo classline

My pet isn't really a part of the build anymore and you just use Phoenix like everyone else to be optimal

[wicked sandal]

if you want to be optimal then base beo does the same thing

[errant sigil]

Yeah that's an issue when Phoenix is optimal for regular beo as well, IMO of course

I feel like longtime beo players who have tried to compete in PvP have always basically tried to be a fake realm or heretic with phoenix

[stoic epoch]

No

There's a pet alternative

And it kills summoners every time

[errant sigil]

My own thoughts on how to make pet beo feel different/useful/meta would have something to do with choosing bonuses that only they get, such as increased block, increased armor penetration, or increased chance to use a specific attack. This would make your pet feel like a more integral part of your build

Similar to the bestial bonds, but it would be based on player choice and more specific like the ones I mentioned

Right now bestial bonds being tied to animal type, regardless of what they are, just make the bond become a part of that pet and not personalized, so if I want 8% att/8% magic instead of 9% ward, I would just have to switch from my Giant pet to a different one instead of choosing that bond. I think the bonds should be chosen and not tied to monster type, and there should be some more specific choices alongside the more generic stat boosts

[stoic epoch]

So uh

Any chance Odie wants to comment on where he's going with us next?

[umbral glade]

he did

[summer gulch]

🗑
😭😭

that beo emote quality too lmao

[umbral glade]

[summer gulch]

" "*

[umbral glade]

"increase followers chance to act twice by 10%" but make it 100% by 'accident', we promise not to tell anyone

[stoic epoch]

Beo - Covyn - RIP - Fixed

[umbral glade]

second time i get 3 keys on floor 38 in a tower today, just had to vent :(

[stoic epoch]

Look how they massacred my boy

[wicked sandal]

"How did you get your lindworm to act twice every turn in that HoF raid." "Just lucky 👌 "

[umbral glade]

gotta grind them attempts

if AL wasnt such a hot topic atm i would just suggest giving beoA a better ascension synergy that increases dbl act by 1% per AL

[elfin rampart]

Oof

Thats too mucho

[umbral glade]

is it thou

[stoic epoch]

But is it though?

[umbral glade]

would getting like, 45% chance to act twice at AL20

really be too much?

[elfin rampart]

100% at AL 100?

[umbral glade]

remember we got pvp and pve split

[elfin rampart]

200% at al 200

[umbral glade]

75 in theory since 25% is base

cap it at 100

[stoic epoch]

Even if we doubled our damage would we really be fixed?

[last bane]

act trice?

[elfin rampart]

Sign me up

[umbral glade]

we aint doing 5m realm strikes each turn even with 100% act twice

[stoic epoch]

Exactly

[elfin rampart]

So Achlys can use sleep dart thrice on the raid while Skadi II is active

[umbral glade]

but "increase the effect of AL" is such a hot topic currently

triple fjalar evasive strikes for a total of 120k dmg

[elfin rampart]

Whoah whoa

You gonna get us nerfed bro

[umbral glade]

medusa getting her petrify immuned 3 times in one turn lets go

[stoic epoch]

I want to see a rage video of someone getting nickle and dimed to death in one turn in pvp

[elfin rampart]

In beta, its very difficult

[umbral glade]

as i said, pvp and pve split is a thing now

[elfin rampart]

Too many thief, mage and warriors out there

[umbral glade]

you could just disable it in pvp

[stoic epoch]

Honestly if I never had to participate in pvp ever again I wouldn't bother with it

[umbral glade]

i do kingdom pvp

i click 2 buttons

and not look at the screen

[stoic epoch]

I'd moonwalk into the pve sunset

[umbral glade]

and i am done with pvp until the next pop up

but a pvp/pve split is GREAT, everytime the "but in pvp its.." comes up i can just copy paste, "okay dont make this work in pvp then"

[stoic epoch]

No, I agree.

Still don't like pvp.

[umbral glade]

oh its great for the pve players

wellfor both

what should i buy with my next tower shards

ehh

this is beta chat nvm

that being said, all of the commonly used augments and weapon bases are future proof for non-BeoH

[elfin rampart]

Just waiting for this

[umbral glade]

parry should really not proc from pet damage lmao

just tanked a 120k dmg baldr parry

oh nice i get tower shards from chests in this themis tower at floor 44 out of 48

even with 13 total keys

~goddamn this is still beta chat

[lime barn]

sup gang

uhhh no pin summarizing wtf is going on, sad beo noises

@umbral glade gogogogo scribe sup

[umbral glade]

i get you a tldr

Valhallan Dissonance, our "redline = pet damage" passive, now effects us at a max of ~1.5x stat boost

we really like that

hydrus likes all of it, Base does too, BeoA is not sure if they like the atk/mag part of it since they want to play through their pet

Bestial Bonds is in need of heavy tuning or mechanical reworks, its close to worthless atm

[lime barn]

Valdiss boosts what? toon or pet?

[ivory birch]

wow not many pins

[lime barn]

no pins no walls of text

and beos expect changes

pffft

[umbral glade]

dissonance used to boost only pets damage

now the players gets the benefit too

[lime barn]

now it boosts player too

so you can pew pew while you fjalar goes brrr

[umbral glade]

but only a max 1.5x after first tests

yes but thats the problem, beoA, the pet celestial needs the most help

as pets get outscaled by player damage like crazy

BeoA gives up loads of atk and mag by going from baseBeo to BeoA

and now they get atk/mag back from vall dissonance

after the current changes the pet will still be a walking garbage can, while the players gets a defensive benefit from redlining FINALLY

[lime barn]

doesn't major play beo

or did all the wall of text authors defect to gs

fux too

i saw the summary for bestial bonds that i thought was spot on.. no one's gonna pick a pet based on BD

so whatever

thanks for the bonus but doesn't quite do shit

[umbral glade]

pets also get bigger brains through a AI boost, which beoA already had

yea BD does not make me go "i could use this skeleton dude his BD bonus is nice"

no i will stick with my bird that does twice the skeletons dmg

there are also some unaddressed things that plague the pet based playstyle

our damage is random, we can not pick priority targets

the pet will randomly decide what to attack

[lime barn]

now if yall could level bestial bonds say from 0 to 50, and every 5 levels the temp buff unlocked and it's just there to use regardless of what pet you use, that'd be cool

[umbral glade]

fjalar has a move in aerial barrage that crits and does by far its highest dmg

but the pet is just as likely to use evasive strikes

which does like 10% of aerial barrages damage

but gives temp crit up

so the idea is set up temp crit -> use aerial barrage

current it might just be evasive strikes -> evasive strikes -> evasive strikes -> basic attack

[umbral glade]

i wrote up a proof of concept for bonds earlier

[last bane]

Better give Beo abuility to block some skills that pet has

1 bound = 1 skill

[umbral glade]

it would go a long way if, lets say fjalar, realized "evasive strikes is for the temp buff not for damage"

and then used its damage moves

Ymir tries to put a blight on every enemy in a horde battle before using its damage skills

so he becomes instantly unviable for any horde fights

and even if they used their moves "better", they will still pick a random target, so we cant reliably kill the mammon acolyte in the mimic king tower fight as an example

and all of that is before addressing that the damage straight up sucks compared to player based damage

[summer gulch]

"Beo mark: mark a enemy in a hoard. This enemy with be focused by pet ai more aggressively with no added bonus"

BeoA passive: beos mark will add an additional bonus to pet dmg

:^)

[umbral glade]

We kinda layer RNG on top of RNG to get a below average payoff so we can actively mitigate damage as the player (which we would not take if we could just ara vesta the mobs in the first place)

[umbral glade]

i wanted this as a passive effect of tamer and beast master

those specs are super boring stat sticks we are kinda forced to take atm

[summer gulch]

Those specs are also sorta forcing pet users to only be able to take them and this have no spec diversity 😭😭

[umbral glade]

we also desperately need a way to scale our pets damage. I liked the idea of BeoA offering their offensive item stats to increase the pets damage. This would make gearing for more offensive stat spreads more attractive as well

[summer gulch]

I say as ymir assassin is not too bad on anything not hoard

[umbral glade]

ymir with smart ai boosts as beo tamer is also good

its one of the fastest "kill a tower boss" videos i've taken

[summer gulch]

Assassin is more for blight sticking more frequently

And I'm speaking mainly of pvp

But figured to mention it as non hoard

[umbral glade]

yea okay i dont have anything to say on pvp besides "i will consider it when second chance isnt the most important skill in the game"

[summer gulch]

beoH has a sc passive

[umbral glade]

pvp that relies on a rng proc is not the kind of gameplay i enjoy

[summer gulch]

I wonder if beoh loses bond from pet death lol

When I hit 250 towers and pvp became all I cared about

So a Lil bais

[umbral glade]

counterstrike but some players have a chance to survive a headshot

one player even deals more damage after surviving a headshot

doesnt seem fun

[summer gulch]

It's definitely a complaint consistently

[umbral glade]

but oneshot unga bunga only doesnt implode completely because second chance exists

so you either have both or none

[stoic epoch]

I don't know that it needs the "most" help. Regular, run of the mill Beo could use most if not all of the treatment Beo A gets.

[elfin rampart]

BeoA - Tamer- Ascension 20

220k is the standard damage for BeoA, assuming that you can get the equipment on display (Celestial with 6x +10% pet stat)

If I can get feed back on how to further increase this damage to be on pair with other classes, I'm open to discuss it.

[stoic epoch]

What pet?

Chimera?

[elfin rampart]

Chimera, indeed

Or should I try the damage with other pets?

[stoic epoch]

Have you tried that same setup with Lindwurm or Fjalar?

[elfin rampart]

Trying right away

[stoic epoch]

If you're running Lindwurm make sure you slot Brynhild call

[elfin rampart]

Feels way faster than Chimera

[stoic epoch]

I can't see those buffs too well, are you running deific channel?

[elfin rampart]

In no case i was using DC (ran out of it)

[stoic epoch]

I see it on your screen, but I can't tell if it's up

OK, and for the Quetz fight it looks like you got the crit debuff

Is that right?

[elfin rampart]

Indeed, I did forgot about that mechanic

That would bring F.Chimera to 440k

[stoic epoch]

I don't normally raid with Chimera. Easier to just raid with Fjalar, Lindy, or Cactus.

But as long as you're willing to chug pots and whatever you're fighting isn't dragon resistant Chim can be a fun choice

As far as damage is concerned, you really need to have t. Att 1, DC, and Bloodshift up together as often as possible

I'm addition to the permanent buffs

I used to keep Wyrm's Song in my spell list, but since the change to valhallan dissonance I'm going TY switch over to Riposte 3 to keep t. Def and t. Att up

You could also use Swordplay 3, but Riposte 3 is more focused

[fossil pendant]

So considering changes
What would be better to go into, beoH or beoA? What about bade beo?

[polar locust]

The celestial you had is only 5x 10% pet stats right? It makes huge difference?

[umbral glade]

BeoH is the top dog until pet based damage gets a boost that makes it comparable with player based damage. Pets need to overcome multiple layers of rng (target selection, move selection, in rarer cases pets struggle with buff/debuff vs damage) while doing below par damage due to the lack of scaling it.
The benefit of the pet based damage are channel time spells like full bend can be used instantly and the player can focus on defense or offense depending on situation.
Those benefits, sadly, do not cover said weaknesses.

BeoH does not have them, as its a player damage focused class that just outsources buffing to the god bird.
Base Beo itself punches harder themselves compared to BeoA, so it has its own merit. BeoA wants to fully rely on its pets, which means being fully dependent on a undertuned form of damage.

This is pretty much unchanged in the beta, with BeoH suffering the same adornment setbacks as every other crit based class.
Base Beo and BeoA enjoy reaping additional benefits from a stat boosting passive when they are red lining in the beta (beoH had a stat boost before, idk if this is better or worse).

[fossil pendant]

Good to know, so my plans remain unchanged

[elfin rampart]

Neglectable

[wicked sandal]

It's around 20% more pet dmg in reality, which isn't nothing but ehh

[umbral glade]

It looks great until you compare it with stuff like prom hands, even post nerf.

Difference between a VD weapon and a 57% pet stat lute

Thats at 238/18 with beoA + tamer for reference (on live, not beta)

[sick tinsel]

Barely 15% total stat bonus

because Pet Stat is additive

Odie doesn't like the idea of Follower Bonus stat being multiplicative like Ward

[wicked sandal]

I mean I don't disagree that base stats are better than post defense/res calculation multipliers, and as such probably shouldn't stack multiplicatively into the high heavens. But their current bonus is just too low to be worth considering

Things like the follower stat amity, follower stat gears, adorns, augments are just pathethic in comparison to the multipliers player dmg has

[sick tinsel]

But I have an idea, why not separate Follower stat into Native Follower stat (Class + Spec) and Added Follower stat (Equipments + Amity + Adorns) :
Follower Stat = Native Follower stat x Added Follower stat
instead of all additive, it allows the player dedication with Pet stat in his armor/weapon/amity

[umbral glade]

Or give us a way to convert player atk/mag into pet bonuses

[sick tinsel]

It is different of Follower stat = Class x Spec x Armor x Weapon x Adornements x Amity

[umbral glade]

Btw, it really does not help that the pet stat% celestial adorn comes with +atk and +mag

I'd rather have a different combination or at least a 2% ward roll

Going from my ward regen axe to my pet stat lute lowers my ward from 120k to 85k

Which would be okay if i had a good way to use all its stats

But the ward regen axe has 39 less atk than the lute

[sick tinsel]

I doesn't dislike Hybrid stats, since now BeoO can also deal damage with new Valhallan Dissonance

BeoH use Celestial Lute with Crit/Hybrid augment
BeoO use Celestial Lute with Hybrid/Ward augment
BeoA use Celestial Axe with Pet/Ward augment

[wicked sandal]

Tbh I'd probably use lute with pet aug on beoA as well, it's not like you particularly need more ward at some point

[sick tinsel]

||I litterally wrote "HoA" without noticing the letters after Beo :x||

[sick tinsel]

With enough stuff/ascension levels yeah

[wicked sandal]

there's also the 20k hp arisen candy cane zerk+smelly shroom method

no amount of pet stats compares to being able to run double zerks and redline at the same time

[warm finch]

Btw if yall want pins please just ping a mod 😅

[sick tinsel]

Well if you can pin this message pretty please #1097570738086621295 message
since it shows how underwhelming Follower stat calculation is

[warm finch]

That?

[sick tinsel]

That.

[umbral glade]

I dont even know what my "perfect" adorn would be.

I currently use:

• c.axe with 5 prom feet for 70% ward and 20% ward recovery per turn, mostly for high floor towers and for chained shield memes
• c.lute with 2x smart Ai adorn and 3x prom feet for ward+recovery. This is my go-to weapon for raids with ymir/lindworm. Enough regen to outsustain damage while making worms brain bigger.
• c.lute with 5x 10% pet stats as that is likely the highest dmg per turn option right now, this is for low tower floors and endless and damage capping guild raids
• questing weapons
  Dont have a candy cane sadly

[round shore]

heh, idk about that. There is an amount of pet stats that overcomes 1.875x M2 from double zerk 😅 it's just a lot of stats... a little less than 1.875x stats, even.

[sick tinsel]

there is pet stat, but also pet act

You can have +300% damage, but if you have 1% acting ...

[wicked sandal]

true, there is an amount that overcomes it, but I don't think a 200% pet stat celestial weapon is the solution to our problems

[umbral glade]

Well our act chance is pretty solid unless we fiddle with jord

[sick tinsel]

Well, might be viable to do a full Protect build for BeoO

Jord II, with a high Protect Chance follower

and Oracle 2x Amity that boost Protect Chance

[umbral glade]

Does beoH even have valhallen protection

[sick tinsel]

nope

[umbral glade]

Whats beoO then

[sick tinsel]

Beo Original

[umbral glade]

Oh

[sick tinsel]

Based Beo

[round shore]

Spooky BeoOooooo*

[umbral glade]

Protect memes run into the same thing mystic feathers does, if it doesnt proc it's useless. So it is really nice against 1000 small hits but will fall to 10 big hits

You never really die from a huge quantity of smaller hits thou

[heavy bane]

Death from a thousand cuts?

[umbral glade]

Its the berserk fallen beo verse crit or the raid ultimate

[warm finch]

Makes me wonder if enemies will start having access to more block/protect bypassing skills

Like perfect shot

[sick tinsel]

Perfect shot is not very scary

but Coup de Grace can be

[warm finch]

Does CDG penetrate defenses?

[umbral glade]

Your pet attacking into parry can be scary

[sick tinsel]

It never misses like Perfect Shot

[wicked sandal]

CDG has pretty low m1

but it has the never miss property so it probably bypasses block too

[sick tinsel]

Say that to A. Morrigan

[wicked sandal]

amorri just has really high attack, but CDG as a skill is m1=1

[sick tinsel]

Yep, that doesn't means it's weak

[wicked sandal]

I take zero dmg from it most of the time until she gets low hp

then her attack is so high I can't zero it anymore

and the m2 is high enough to be a threat once it starts doing dmg

[umbral glade]

Amorri really didnt adapt to the celestial weapon meta

[sick tinsel]

Sorry to have only 20 ascension levels

[wicked sandal]

Well ascensions play a big part, other part is def/res gear

if you use baldr (which is good ward gear ofc), expect to get spanked by phys moves

[umbral glade]

This whole ashen phoenix permanent DC thing is also great

[sick tinsel]

Not gonna lie, the most dangerous part of CdG is the Bleeding

[wicked sandal]

I took no/little dmg from raids even before I played exclusively hydrus in raids

ascensions and good gear go brrr

[sick tinsel]

BeoH is a revolution in Beo gameplay

[umbral glade]

We need another titan and tower type and all his augments give "immunity to 'status effect' "

With some generic stats

Could be nice to fix a weakness of your build in trade off for a adorn with a good effect

[stoic epoch]

Maybe Odie implements a "Pet Anger" damage multiplier? As the Beo takes hp / ward damage the pet gets "angrier" in the form of a stacking pet damage multiplier?

That way is not frontloaded, so it wouldn't allow for pvp cheese

[elfin rampart]

We need to grind gear for pets

Otherwise, we will be faced with the "Beo is too strong without gear" in the face

[last bane]

i think it almost the same as vallhalla dissonance by spirit
just another way of realisation

[elfin rampart]

And nothing will be done again

[stoic epoch]

Like, gear equippable by the pets themselves? Like a little knitted cactus sweater?

[last bane]

Maybe Bestial bonds must open slots for "claw/armor/saddle/spikes" to pet? and Beo should choose which item would be put on?

it would be nice if claw's would provide some crit.chance to pet
armor - chance of protection
some sort of gem/ring - rises up chance to pet's doublecast
saddle/leash - AI to pet
and so on

[sick tinsel]

pet items was announced by Odie a long time ago ( year maybe ?)
dunno if he's still planning that

[last bane]

i guess he was trying to make Beo better, give them some new mechanics...but

He invented summoner's classline :)

[stoic epoch]

Lol

[stoic epoch]

See I thought he announced pet gear at one point, but then it just never came to fruition so I figured I'd just remembered the announcement wrong.

[umbral glade]

How about a adornment that saps your own offensive stats to give them to your pet, like an anti hybrid monster skill

[sick tinsel]

the follower is litterally our weapon as beowulf

adorning them makes a lot of sense, but ethically ...

[stoic epoch]

If he's been intending pet gear as the power fix for Beo can we get an update on where he's at with that?

[sick tinsel]

Shall we ping Odie or Dangy to get more info on that ?

[umbral glade]

Is that even more than a rumor?

[stoic epoch]

He's up and paying attention. He's been posting in the Ultima topic as recently as a couple minutes ago

[umbral glade]

I didnt see that written anywhere besides fanfic of players

[last bane]

Thy are unpingable?

[fossil pendant]

They're pingable, it's just..hmm..both unneeded and unwanted

Not allowed would be a better term

Frowned upon 🤔

[blazing hull]

you also should think they're not reading, it's not rare see a random Odie message pop in the threads when you think that NF is not reading it.

[fossil pendant]

They're always watching

Keeping everyone on their tippy toes

[polar locust]

I imagine Odie with multiple screens of multiple chats seeing what's happening

[hasty knoll]

i'm afraid of heights

[umbral glade]

At heights or at "falling from heights". Like are you afraid that the giraffe is very tall or that you could fall from its head

[sick tinsel]

Imagine if Big Forg done "Day X of making Zaltys' neck longer"

[fossil pendant]

This is what it reminds me of

[fossil pendant]

So I take it you will not be entering floor 35+ towers?

[summer gulch]

I learned I'm not afraid of heights like I thought. It's the fear of falling as it happens or is simulated that panics me. So roller-coasters scare the heck out of me lol.

[umbral glade]

I want a giraffe follower

They fight with their necks, its not just to eat leafs from trees

[sick tinsel]

"But we have giraffe at home" :

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/604082581058617355/1095440568399700048/Forg_Zaltys_Snoot_250Days.gif

[hasty knoll]

the notation, really

5'6''

😱 😱 😱

[warm finch]

Not the answer I expected, but the answer we deserved

[sick tinsel]

Mmh, I might not have understood that reference

[wicked sandal]

Basically, Odie is short

[fossil pendant]

I think everyone is born with a fear of "heights" which is actually just a fear of falling and not the height itself
The so called "call of the void" I think?
Urges to..well I'm not gonna talk about it here
In short, the brain tries finding the fastest way down, which just so happens to be a straight line down

[summer gulch]

Yea it's like snakes and spiders

Humans are naturally fearful of those at birth

[umbral glade]

A big part of that is your parents

Kids observe their parents and copy them

They also copy the "i should be afraid of that spooder" behaviour

[warm finch]

I'm... I'm not sure which chat I should redirect people talking about human behaviour and Nature vs Nurture 🤔

[umbral glade]

And it gets rooted deep in them

Okay back to the giraffes

[warm finch]

Much better

[wicked sandal]

This is just beowulves trying to get in touch with nature to better bond with their follower

[umbral glade]

Imagine a giraffe follower that has a comically large neck

Much taller than the player sprite

[heavy bane]

Tbh I want a turtle or mushroom pet first

[umbral glade]

I would be okay with penguin's

But not one, think a dugtrio of penguins

[sick tinsel]

dunno if Turtle will be considered Animals ... doesn't feel right to have +35% dex

[summer gulch]

Giraffe pet giving beoH their second chance passive

[umbral glade]

Giraffes crazy high blood pressure

Fascinating animals. I want to recommend new beo players "take the giraffe when you are fighting god, its the strongest"

[sick tinsel]

I want a fish as follower

gimme some MEGALODON

I have a f* idea

[warm finch]

https://tenor.com/view/fast-turtle-gif-19535710

[sick tinsel]

Why not a mini event where you can unlock content from fishing or fighting near water

[umbral glade]

I think mostly because events take a lot of time and work and that time thing is a very limited resource

[stoic epoch]

That turtle is fast af

[sick tinsel]

It's under Deific Channel and T.Dex+++

[stoic epoch]

Lol

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-speed-saturday-night-live-kachow-lightning-mcqueen-catchphrase-gif-23378630

[sick tinsel]

Else, it's a big turtle to the point to be considered as Giant family

Gimme ward

Not much people are playing the game of improving Bestial Bond : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gy-kE48koYp39Q99dWSz_b-PCPN6Y-Cqp_sVQk319as/edit#gid=0

[hasty knoll]

some bestial bonds updates are now live - still a bit more to come

[sick tinsel]

Oh interesting

[warm finch]

I'd love to see them - but the bestiary won't open ._.

[noble stag]

I can't even build one rn, lol

[hasty knoll]

Aye, tis broke

[umbral glade]

Beo is broken, heard it here first

[noble stag]

Always has been

Not in a good way

GS and beo are bros in that regard

[summer gulch]

Do not compare me to those flith

Summoner was a mistake

[sick tinsel]

I played Summoner on HoA, I pity them now.

[summer gulch]

Good

[umbral glade]

Summoner is a fun archetype

[warm finch]

As much as I understand the summoner hate joke, I feel like it's starting to get a bit out of hand, getting used too much, and starting to get interpreted by some people as things other than jokes.
When people start getting hurt by jokes, it's best to ease on them. So I'd appreciate it if we collectively saw less of those jokes please and thank you

[summer gulch]

It's a joke?

I genuinely hate summoner

[sick tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-hate-flow-let-the-hate-flow-gif-16042374

[summer gulch]

It was a bad class on launch that got way overturned and now is mob psychosis into keeping its power

[umbral glade]

Thats fine, dont let it out on players enjoying the clas

[summer gulch]

But heck it, not worth arguing so rn that's all I want to say

[noble stag]

It was overturned on launch dude

You could amorri with lvl 1 gear

It got way more balanced noe

[warm finch]

Okay yeah if it wasn't a joke, then that amount of negativity is unwelcome. You are free to state your opinion in a constructive manner, but this wouldn't be the channel to do so anyhow

[sick tinsel]

Plus that's not the right the good channel for that

We're in a channel that offer us the possibility to improve our beloved Beowulf class

Time to do blueprints and excels to mathematically prove Odie right or wrong, like we did for Beowulf Hydrus

[manic nimbus]

Odie teases us with new bestial bonds and my beta doesn't open. I am sure there is a 1000%dmg fjalar bestial bond hidden in there!

[last bane]

oh, not only i can't open beta

[manic nimbus]

Odie giveth and odie taketh

[sick tinsel]

Odie, we can't even check Follower properties in the Codex AAAAAAAAAAAAA

[hasty knoll]

will be fixed in 5

[sick tinsel]

4

[last bane]

check them at pet's window?

[manic nimbus]

3

[hasty knoll]

4

[manic nimbus]

A live countdown, i love it

[sick tinsel]

3.5

3.1

3.0001

Like every game downloading on PC now

[manic nimbus]

Those get stuck at 99%

And then you need to redownload D:

[arctic marlin]

What do people think of redlining on normal beo but not hydrus?

[sick tinsel]

dangerous

[arctic marlin]

I get the feeling normal beo might have more potential

[manic nimbus]

As an anti-redliner person I am 50% sad and 50% happy

[wicked sandal]

I prefer not needing to redline, easier to use zerks, easier to set up

better in towers, pvp, dungeons

[sick tinsel]

That's not something that is good outside raiding

[wicked sandal]

better for easy raids and hitting kingdom dmg caps

[arctic marlin]

I can think of other places to use

[sick tinsel]

It's long to setup, if you fail you die and lose

[manic nimbus]

World farm? 🤣

[stoic epoch]

I can't even get in, it's stuck at "contacting game servers"

[wicked sandal]

base beo will be pretty good for chaining WRB's by keeping hp low

[manic nimbus]

But Id be the happiest beo if beo/a didnt need to redline as well

[wicked sandal]

maybe endless too

although zerk + redline is again an issue

[sick tinsel]

We don't have access to High Tenacity

[arctic marlin]

Idk the hybrid monster 3 is what, 40% ?

[manic nimbus]

Not having to redline is what makes hydrus extremely appealing to me

[arctic marlin]

Redlining gets you up to 100%?

[sick tinsel]

50%

[wicked sandal]

50%

it's reduced on beo compared to the follower

[arctic marlin]

Ah

[wicked sandal]

125% for follower, 50% for beo

[arctic marlin]

That makes more sense

Then yes hydrus 🙏

[sick tinsel]

Only 50%, well that's fair

[wicked sandal]

if it was 125% for both then yeah base beo would be insane

[arctic marlin]

Case closed

I was thinking it was 125 for both yeah

[sick tinsel]

Combined with Hybrid Monster II (30%) that's not bad

[arctic marlin]

Thats why i was like hmmmm

[wicked sandal]

it's one of the first things I tested cause I couldn't believe my eyes when it casually said dissonance would apply to the player

[sick tinsel]

at the price of recharge, we can use crit without being annoyed

[arctic marlin]

Definitely makes 225-250 beo more viable though so thats cool. Just a bit more effort

Im here for it

[last bane]

how much dissonance 2 gives to pet at BeoA?

[wicked sandal]

110% stats, can't remember how much action rate but a bit more than dissonance 1

redline effect is the same

x2.25

[sick tinsel]

Wait Valhallan Dissonance II gives way more stats to Player ?

[wicked sandal]

no dissonance II has the same 50% for player only

[sick tinsel]

oki, it's just for defense purpose

[wicked sandal]

you can get a pretty decent stat total going with hm2's x1.3 and dissonance x1.5, but yeah if you want to play for raw player dmg then just play a different class

the defensive boost is the more relevant part mostly

[sick tinsel]

Well, that's more firepower for Beowulf og

You can try to combo with your pet

Ultima + Ymir

Light attacks + Lindworm

Realmspikes + Fjalar

[last bane]

Yeap, we need def boost fot BeoO/BeoA, and Pet's damage boost
and High tenacity would be the best choise.

[stoic epoch]

I kinda want our own thing

Not just stealing tenacity

[wicked sandal]

I doubt they'd just casually give us high tenacity, considering how strong zerks are

[umbral glade]

I think there could be another talk about getting steadfast 1ish again at some point

[last bane]

i think Odie can do this thing ours, Valhallan's
RS can get more damage from other ways

[sick tinsel]

I'm ready to replace Valhallan Protection to High Tenacity or Steadfast

[umbral glade]

High tenacity is out of the picture tbh

Thats like giving gilga valhallan protection

Doesnt fit

[wicked sandal]

I mean I wouldn't mind getting some of the best passives in the game sure

[stoic epoch]

Lol

[wicked sandal]

but I think it's better if we get strenght our own way

[umbral glade]

Dont get me wrong, i would take high tenacity as well

[stoic epoch]

"Roof tile or chocolate cake?"

[last bane]

Valhalla & Berserk are always close even in mythology

[sick tinsel]

Beowulf are litteral savage accustomed to the wild, why can't they get a little highier tenacity like RS ?

[umbral glade]

I would also take ionoclast

[stoic epoch]

Maybe he could give us a Barbarian Rage analogue a la D&D

[umbral glade]

We could also take hunters mark

[last bane]

agree, interesting mechanic

[stoic epoch]

We're stuck in this like Ranger / Bard / Skald limbo as far as class identity goes

[last bane]

sorry, i don't get it, i'm bad in english and a bit far from D&D

[sick tinsel]

Simple, Beowulf = Wild Artist

He knows 2 ways to play Lute

[hasty knoll]

beta server issues should be resolved now

[stoic epoch]

Do the bonds stack now?

[hasty knoll]

yes

[sick tinsel]

WOOW

Nicely done

[stoic epoch]

And are the temp buffs per turn not just once?

[hasty knoll]

per turn

[stoic epoch]

Fuck yes

[sick tinsel]

mmh, first problem

[hasty knoll]

no problems

[stoic epoch]

70% status protection?

[hasty knoll]

that's a problem

[sick tinsel]

not technically, but more logical 😂

[umbral glade]

yoo i take full credit for "adding skills to beastial bonds"

[sick tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/issou-drole-marrant-rire-rigoler-gif-6142116

[stoic epoch]

Nonono

Leave it

[sick tinsel]

I take full credit on stacking bonuses

[stoic epoch]

Are the hp bonuses going to give ward too now?

[sick tinsel]

Why do we have +20% healing when the only class that can achieve this level needs to redline ?!

[hasty knoll]

Ward is a separate bestial bond

[wicked sandal]

there are places where you might want to heal

if it affects all healing like candy cane/amity that could also make running single zerk easier

with items like zaltys

[warm finch]

70% status protection lol

we're skipping Steadfast 3

[last bane]

+Ability: Ward of Iron - it for pet? or for Beo as default ward protection?

[stoic epoch]

OK, so bonus hp not giving ward is

[warm finch]

bring in Steadfast 5

[stoic epoch]

10% vd

[umbral glade]

i think it was more a question of "does the hp bonus go into the max ward calculation"

[stoic epoch]

Yeah that

[umbral glade]

hp and mana are very generic stats that will hardly ever matter

[stoic epoch]

I just figured hp increasing usually comes with ward

Because ward is based on total hp

[umbral glade]

if its not a ward increase

[hasty knoll]

it does not, no

[warm finch]

Interesting, VD pet 🤔

same value as the VD hat, which beo can equip

meaning base beo would see farther than realm

[last bane]

not same as RS?

[warm finch]

1.1 x 1.1 > 1.2

[blazing hull]

RS lost their light torch, they're blind now

[stoic epoch]

Ward of Iron as a lvl 3 bond?

I thought they got it back?

[hasty knoll]

definitely some tweaks to make still

[warm finch]

they did not

[umbral glade]

that makes the hp stat very undesirable, tbh, max hp, in a world of redlining and divine bastion never really matters besides max ward and candy cane i guess

[warm finch]

Tweaks are nice, but honestly, these changes are much juicier

[stoic epoch]

Oh no, these changes rock

Just need some refinement

[warm finch]

Note: The HP is on Level 1, which everyone can have access to via Tamer

[umbral glade]

yea stuff like the vision distance actually makes you think "i want to use this pet for bestial bonds"

[stoic epoch]

John

[umbral glade]

thats what it should be

[warm finch]

which means, even if it isn't great on beo, that specific one would be pretty good on Gilgursa Tamer per example

[stoic epoch]

Would you ever take tamer if you're not running Beo?

[umbral glade]

fair

my mindset is stuck on beoA i guess

[warm finch]

for 14% bonus hp memes on gilgursa? perhaps

Realm Tamer used to be meta you know

[stoic epoch]

Way back in the day

Not recently

[wicked sandal]

Not since blackened eyes exist at least

[warm finch]

pff details details

|| ||

[umbral glade]

are there any juicy "this makes me damage numbers go up" bonds for pet types that have actually good pets

vision distance on humans is nice for finding dungeons but if humans are bad at doing dungeons, we gotta swap around for every dungeon

[hasty knoll]

any att/mag bonds affect both player and follower

[umbral glade]

different from generic pet stats? or same bonus

[stoic epoch]

Not a lot. Cactus gets 8% pet stats from lvl 2 bond

Lindy gets this

So we're still not seeing much of a damage increase

There's some utility

It's better than it was

[wicked sandal]

Magical pets have elemental weakness +15%, but idk if that applies to player, follower or both

[umbral glade]

at what bond level?

[wicked sandal]

Unfortunately, the only magical pets at t10 are arsenal (can't hit elemental weakness) and acolyte

3

[umbral glade]

hm

so thats more a base beo thing

who is smacking stuff himself

[warm finch]

all the polly apprentices are magical

[wicked sandal]

oh polly apprentices are magical too

[warm finch]

beat you to it

:^)

[wicked sandal]

and anubis

though I doubt that'll make anubis see use over ymir

[warm finch]

Balor Forces have dark damage +20%

and fire res

[umbral glade]

yea ymir gets some mag and atk for player and pet

[wicked sandal]

vss with 70% status protect though

[wicked sandal]

[stoic epoch]

And it's level 1

[hasty knoll]

don't bank on that one staying 🙂

[umbral glade]

not seeing anything i really go crazy about so far. Vision distance and summon dead are my highlights (unless status protect doest get cut to 7% lmao)

[warm finch]

High Tenacity ❌
Steadfast 5 ✅

[last bane]

it must stays :)

[stoic epoch]

Aww c'mon, if you're not going to give us damage we can at least be mostly immune to status effects with one mostly unused pet type

[warm finch]

Note: Again, every class with Tamer would have access to 70% status resistance

[stoic epoch]

He could shuffle it up one

[umbral glade]

i think that will be 7% by the next update :(

[last bane]

just push it to lvl3

[stoic epoch]

Odie, are you happy with our damage the way it is?

Point blank.

[wicked sandal]

let's be reasonable folks and put that 70% at lv3 of our most used followers instead

[umbral glade]

just put it at "wow you reached level 3, take this and 70% status resist"

but yea, Horde will still be cactus only. Lindworm and Ymir stay top picks for non cleanse single target raids, fjalar will still be the generic go-to for non dungeons

i dont see any of these bonds change that up

[fossil pendant]

idk man i like those

[umbral glade]

maybe anubis?

[stoic epoch]

Maybe?

[wicked sandal]

You can get poisoned by this through briny pendant

[fossil pendant]

wait

that's all for player

you can get t.att

[wicked sandal]

followers can't carry temp buffs silly

that's why it says player

[fossil pendant]

be cool if it was..you know...caused on the enemy

ah level 3 only has t.all^ and poisoned...

[umbral glade]

honest take here. These look much better than before, but besides grabbing vision distance for wayvesseling, i will not change up my pet usage as BeoA

[last bane]

i think BeoA must have a 100% chance of bound t.buffs at start of the battle

[wicked sandal]

I think if the chance for the temp all was higher (since you can't normally get that outside of one specific gear item), the mimic one is pretty good

you can increase the poison chance too if you want to keep the mimic theme, and have people need to play around that

[polar locust]

I take it hehe

[umbral glade]

will any of you change pets for this on a pet reliant build?

[stoic epoch]

The charges are in the right direction (bond stacking, better more focused bonuses), but we still need more damage.

No

Still using Lindy / Cactus / Ymir / Fjalar.

[umbral glade]

i think, until a majority of players will answer that question with at least a MAYBE

the mechanic is not tuned well enough

[last bane]

i mean it can be part of Auriga passive

[stoic epoch]

Hold on, I'm trying anubis raiding

[umbral glade]

and i am not talking about level 1 bonds, those should be balanced for tamer, not for beo

but strictly 2 and 3

15% weakness exploit damage is a good step

but %hp aint it

[wicked sandal]

Tbh unless they overtune the bonds then it'll be difficult to compete. Cause moveset and stats are a vastly more important part of the follower package

[umbral glade]

(summon dead is also a good step)

[blazing hull]

the thing I like the most with bonds is that it's present on tamer, making it somewhat of an option for non valhallan classes

[umbral glade]

if overtuning it for a beta patch is the way to test the upper limits, then so be it

[wicked sandal]

anubis isn't going to compete with ymir cause of 15% weakness exploit cause he still has less magic, a worse elemental weakness inducer, and worse damaging spells

unless you give him 150% increased weakness exploit

[polar locust]

Probably not

[stoic epoch]

Yeah no, it's nice to use something new but he didn't compete

[umbral glade]

i think that is the most important question for this mechanic as THE class that uses it

[stoic epoch]

He still hits like a wet noodle

[umbral glade]

if weaker pet with stronger bond is NEVER the answer over stronger pet with weaker bond, the mechanic is flawed

[stoic epoch]

Nice to see the blue damage numbers though

[wicked sandal]

blue damage numbers is fun

best reason to use ymir

[umbral glade]

ymir is a beast

[stoic epoch]

Ymir gotta be my favorite gender

[blazing hull]

no, it's a dragon

[umbral glade]

unless there are 2+ enemies, he will be VERY busy spreading blights

[hasty knoll]

Keep in mind:

This current iteration is a demonstration of where they feature is headed, and what it is capable. All currently levels can be seen as placeholder - try not to get too hung up on any of them

This most likely won't be a shorter beta - lot's of time to refine/balance them

[stoic epoch]

We get that

We're just saying it's not quite there

That's the feedback in a nutshell

We love you

[umbral glade]

we are asking to be more aggressive with your placeholders

we know nothing is final until the beta is over

[stoic epoch]

Don't take the feedback the wrong way

[polar locust]

Love a long beta to get the tweaks right

[umbral glade]

but i think a clear cut answer to "will this make you rethink how you play right now" is a good eye test

[stoic epoch]

The big positive takeaway today is the stacking bond levels

That's huge

[last bane]

Odie says that soon must be some new skills in beta?

[umbral glade]

i think we all agree that this is a much needed step for bestial bonds and shows us that more unique feature, such as "Added skill: Raise dead" is possible

[blazing hull]

this can be taken as a way to fine tune pets for beo only. imagine if someday a pet have bond 3 : play twice.

[umbral glade]

and we know it wont be the last step

[stoic epoch]

Bond lvl 3: your pet disables your opponents wifi in live pvp.

[umbral glade]

but i honestly think we need MUCH more aggressive stat lines and skills and buffs for level 3

keeping 1 balanced around tamer is great imo

but 2 and 3 need to escalate things, seeing the best bonus in tier 1 should never be the case

[stoic epoch]

70% status protection

Lol

If only

[umbral glade]

that will be 7% for sure

[stoic epoch]

For just a second we touched the stars

[umbral glade]

yea when that was the first stat line posted

i was like

damn yo we juicing

[blazing hull]

imagine 70% on a steadfast class, what status ?

[stoic epoch]

Made me really hopeful I was going to get to the damage pets and see something truly obscene

Something I could take back to Forg and go, "look, I can do off the wall shit now too"

[umbral glade]

Hey Odie, Base Beo could really use a option to mana sustain. The removal of Recharge really hit new tier 10s hard. Mana Siphon could be a way.

(unrelated to bestial bonds for a second)

[hasty knoll]

sounds like a neat bond

[blazing hull]

didn't saw there were different bonus for each level, if beo don't stack all buff, it may be a little disappointing. maybe make it stack but lesser buffs for 2 and 3.

[stoic epoch]

They stack now

[blazing hull]

oh that's neet

[stoic epoch]

That's the big positive change for today

Big step in the right direction

[blazing hull]

considering it's only the beginning for bonds, it already looks cool

[arctic marlin]

When you say stack you mean bestial 2 and bestial 1 proc independently but both have proc chance?

[umbral glade]

we mean

[arctic marlin]

Or the proc chance is additive

[umbral glade]

if you have a total of beastial bonds level 3

you get benefits of level 1 2 and 3

[arctic marlin]

Ah bestial 1+ 2 = 3

Oh no

Gotcha

So hydrus has bestial 2

[wicked sandal]

level 2 gets level 1 and 2 effects, level 3 gets them all

[umbral glade]

so you get all listed buffs if you reach the max bonds level

[arctic marlin]

Gotcha

Thats cool

[wicked sandal]

idk if you get level 3 with hydrus + tamer

I'll check

[umbral glade]

now we need escalating strengths in bonds, so 3 is better then 2, 2 is better than 1, 1 is better than 0

at least in my opinion

[wicked sandal]

you don't

highest bond level counts

[umbral glade]

oh

so i guess beoA has 3? Base 2 or 3?

[wicked sandal]

base beo and auriga have 3, hydrus has 2

[blazing hull]

I'm afraid to ask what the bond 3 of polly apprentices means (15% elemental weakness)

[umbral glade]

interesting choice that it doesnt stack with tamer

guess that was just my headcannon

[wicked sandal]

If you hit something that is elementally weak to your move, deal bonus dmg

[arctic marlin]

So tamer bond level only affects non valhallan classes really

[umbral glade]

yea

[arctic marlin]

Makes tamer somewhat usable for diety for instance

[umbral glade]

thats a great choice

tamer stinks on live

its a stat stick

like a beo charm

[wicked sandal]

deity tamer with phoenix, get phoenix's dex%

guess that could be useful for pvp defense

[umbral glade]

its strong in what it does, but it was.. boring

[wicked sandal]

dexy deity build

[arctic marlin]

Dumb question where are you getting pets on beta

New to beta usually avoid 😅

[blazing hull]

IDK, you can already zwei.

[wicked sandal]

bestiaries have all of them I think, except the dragons

[arctic marlin]

Ah nvm my bestiaries were not working before

They are working now

Ignore

[warm finch]

I'd still love to see Bonds 4 on Auriga

but that might be pushing it a bit much

[arctic marlin]

Oh wow view distance on some 👀

[last bane]

or it can be same for all pets

[blazing hull]

Ymir bond 4 : +spell Ultima III

[umbral glade]

i am not sure if i like tamers 1 level of bonds not effecting the valhallan classes levels

[warm finch]

Honestly, yeah?
Since Auriga needs damage coming from pets, adding some Real Kick to pets would be nice

[wicked sandal]

Lmao I'm down for that

[blazing hull]

and remember auriga pets can act twice

[warm finch]

If going by their families still, uniqueness is not entirely achieved, but again, families can be narrowed down later

[umbral glade]

not to toot my own horn, i would still love having a pets family level 3/4 bond being a skill unique to that family

[blazing hull]

ultimabreath, here you go

[warm finch]

the double pet act chance is nice, but with the randomness of the pet actions, that is at best a ~25% damage increase, if you're lucky with skill usage

[umbral glade]

but i am more than happy that "pet learns a new skill" is a bonds thing now

[umbral glade]

rng is a enemy of beoA

25% dbl act

random targeting

random move selection

you could get fjalar evasive striking once per turn on a 100k hp nidhogg for 4 turns

or you could get 8 aerial barrages in the same time

[last bane]

Total amount of active bouns must influence on pet's chance to doublecast

[wicked sandal]

that nidhogg is a beast if it tanked 8 barrages

[blazing hull]

valhallan dissonance + bond 3 + hybrid monster 2... Am I the only one seeing things coming together for base beo ?

[umbral glade]

( i said it before, adding Ascension Synergy 2 to BeoA with dbl act chance added would be an idea if AL wasnt a hot topic atm)

base beo looking good yea

[stoic epoch]

Looking better

[umbral glade]

smack stuff with a piano, have the pet clean up

questing Piano when

[stoic epoch]

Questing Banjo

[blazing hull]

my current prefered playstyle is hybrid deity, but with all the changes...maybe I was a beo all along

[umbral glade]

diety should still be the hybrid class instead of beo

i will die on that hill

[blazing hull]

and yet, beo is the best hybrid

[umbral glade]

celestial deity's being atk and magic focused while base deity is hybrid

makes perfect sense

[blazing hull]

don't start me on the boring celestial deities...

[umbral glade]

i was thinking Lacunus but dragon dmg and blight instead of stasis but ultima breath would also be okay

[round shore]

w-what is arch alchemy

[warm finch]

amity effect

chance to drop random mats on overworld enemies

[umbral glade]

what pet is that even

[round shore]

atlas of olympia

[warm finch]

what family ._.

[round shore]

asteria is considered Undead Horde...? (like VSS)

lms what Ophion is

[umbral glade]

passive skills on higher bonds is a nice addition as well

[blazing hull]

when switching pet serves a real purpose...

[round shore]

ophion is the same as atlas. not sure what's wrong with asteria (I even restarted client after picking asteria)

presumably this is Giant family

[wicked sandal]

asteria wanted to be special

[umbral glade]

per pet bonds incomming

dysfunctional families

[round shore]

regarding Magic family elemental weakness -- this is cool for Arisen Nag and CG in T9.
Doesn't change much regarding anubis (v. ymir) in T10.

[warm finch]

You could give dragons a skill like uhh.. Draconic Rage. Which would deal damage of all elements, and more damage per blight on an enemy (something like 1.2x elemental exploitation damage, and 1.2x bonus damage per blight)

You could give Undead Horde a skill like ... Nekrotic Extraction. Which would deal damage based on foes slain (a-la Nekrosis) and summon a Skeleton with stats based on the amount of damage dealt (they already have summon dead as a spell, and beos do have summoning pets, so it's okay to have a bit of overlap?)

You could give Humans a skill like ... Orchestral Symphony. Which would deal hybrid damage, and deal more damage the higher your Health and Mana count (to make those stats desireable for once)

You could give Giants a skill like ... Guardian's Deflection. Which would "defend" you for one turn, and parry a portion of an enemy's attack back, regenerating your ward based on damage dealt.

idk. spitballing stuff for unique family spells.

[umbral glade]

"cool but doesn't change much" is the perfect way to describe all bonds on the current patch

[warm finch]

Does Baha have bonds 3? I don't remember

[umbral glade]

but its a giant step into the right direction

[umbral glade]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IIGeSUFLikUEsM1c2xL3TdL7Mj1kI14PAvCMc3KA6cU/edit#gid=0

[arctic marlin]

Lol same 😂

[blazing hull]

onryo level 2 bond is give her a spell she already have have sad

[round shore]

baha has bonds2.

bahaHydrus is missing bonds (oops).
bahaAuriga is bonds2.

[warm finch]

Yeah I know of the document, I just wanted to know if that's the sort of stuff people would like to see or nah

[umbral glade]

it is what i would like to see

[warm finch]

Not to mention, those ideas in specific are very, well, specific. Not very good when it comes to suggesting vaguely a concept

[stoic epoch]

We'll always take a look at proposals

[umbral glade]

i really enjoy the idea of "this is the best this type of pet can throw at the enemy" which is unlocked at max bonds

[stoic epoch]

Then we'll form a committee

Then we'll vote to unionize the Beos

[blazing hull]

the t.mag% as been drastically reduced, is it on hit now ?

[round shore]

tamer BB1 doesn't stack with beo BB3 in any way.
Was kinda hoping I'd get the BB1 passive twice 😅

[umbral glade]

i was hoping for tamer to stack with class to reach higher levels

[stoic epoch]

Honestly, I really wish he'd just bake the Tamer stat stick stuff into Beo in general so I could pick another Spec