Realmshifter changes

[blissful thistle]

@barren geyser would it mean dorado could maybe not use the celestial axe? cause he could equip warrior gear.

[barren geyser]

Is dorado a warrior class? If not, no.

[nocturne scaffold]

You can use either just depends on if you want ward or dex more

[blissful thistle]

ah ok ^^

[nocturne scaffold]

If you want his passives seems like the bow is better the proficiency is only 5% so it's not too much of a loss

[stark hound]

This probably isn’t the right thread for this. Regardless, dorado can use both since it can equip warrior gear. The axe fits better for tankier, ward based builds, while the bow would resemble a more classic thief build

[calm quail]

definitely not the right thread, #🌳│tier-10-help exists

[calm quail]

oh right, did no one really ask for lower version of siphon ward for dorito?

[hard sandal]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that

[patent comet]

Interesting

I don't really get the Delay Strike I & II on the same

[timid plume]

oh, levels should be different. good catch

[patent comet]

I think a displayed message is missing for the effect

[hard sandal]

I have to say it's funny deleting your entire mana bar into an enemy while you have low att xD

[patent comet]

If diff between I and III is just dmg, Delay I would predominate since it's the effect we want

Swordplay style

[pulsar pasture]

Now make it crit 😛

[patent comet]

I've tried ahah

[hard sandal]

Yeah sadly it doesn't crit 😦

[pulsar pasture]

It probably isn't tho

[patent comet]

That's what we'll figure out together ^^

[pulsar pasture]

In fact I'd prefer if the damage was the same but the effect chance increased

[hard sandal]

Why would we go with 1 instead of 3? Mana?

[pulsar pasture]

Yep

[hard sandal]

Makes sense

No crit so no recharge

And it leaves you in a good spot for second chance

[pulsar pasture]

190 can be very disruptive on rs

Especially in dungeons, pvp

[hard sandal]

Yeah, it's almost the same mana as Realm Strikes 1 but without possible recharge, so it makes sense it's on Corvus

[patent comet]

On the mana matter, avidity could be really greedy if the Another turn gained would cut the mana cost of the next skill by half

Avidity amplified

[hard sandal]

That would be certainly a twist to recharge for Corvus, it would be too good on other RS imo

Would allow to maintain that mana way better

[wicked crater]

I don't think Avidity should solve mana issues

Corvus doesn't have build-in mana solvers because of a stacking buff. Dorito is just confused

[patent comet]

Me neither, was just a thought on the term of the passive and the mana cost of DS3 ^^

[hard sandal]

Now that you say that, it makes sense for Corvus not to have mana regen

[wicked crater]

I hope these skills aren't the only new ones being added

[patent comet]

In fact, I rarely have mana issues now

[pulsar pasture]

On corvus who has that crit chain passive. Makes sense

Be neat if only 3 could crit

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah I meant the first one, as it has a lower mana cost

I'm running low on sleep, will come back tomorrow I guess

[pulsar pasture]

On the contrary it makes sense a 2nd turn in a row be more taxing as you'd be more tired performing 1 action right after another

[patent comet]

Nah, we've reached the stars

Nothing can be exhausting anymore for us

[pulsar pasture]

Yeah you're right

[surreal socket]

Crit ffs

[elfin hound]

Is Arcane strikes 4 on the chopping block? Anyone know a use case for this move that is better then a arcane enchantment weapon?

[pulsar pasture]

when you don't wanna enchant a weapon with arcane

given you'd only use it for things like sirus i think

[elfin hound]

In this case I wouldn’t use an arcane move at all

[elfin hound]

B.Polly

[pulsar pasture]

idk if you really need to hit for the weakness to kill B.polly
arcane move > having a weapon with arcane just for a select few enemies

[elfin hound]

But the cases where you would use A.strikes isn’t better then normal realm strikes, even when it is the weakness of the raid

Are you saying you are happy with the skill? Or just putting an argument forward

[pulsar pasture]

i didn't know the skill even existed
i'm saying you'd use an arcane skill against something like sirus that is immune to literally everything except elementless and weak to arcane
that is unless you're a heretic in which case elementless magic (mage's dance), or beo with verse

and you'd use it over having a whole weapon prepeared just for him
or even needing to go out to switch your weapon in the first place

[elfin hound]

Like personally I don’t see any other skill that is on a level of meh that a.strikes 4 is that is offered on c.classes. The damage is low, m1 is low, multi turn on a red line character is a struggle, doesn’t link with the crit synergy

[covert turret]

Agreed

[pulsar pasture]

yea it seems trash

[covert turret]

Plus loststrike is already a thing

[elfin hound]

Not sure what we were talking NF about then 😂

If some X factor is needed for Dorito it would be interesting to see a debuff skill like rangnorock Surtr has

Or a opponent buff type skill where you give the opponent your turn, but gain something in return (going off the turn based skills)

[pulsar pasture]

give opponent your turn but they die if you survive (ignores second chance)

[elfin hound]

That’s a bit much, I was thinking an element blight or something

[pulsar pasture]

clarification added

[stark hound]

Just saying, arcane weapon is great for UW farming. I’d suggest having your luck weapon at the very least enchanted with it

[pulsar pasture]

for anyone that actually uses realm for horde farming yeah

[kind raft]

if the only horde farming you're doing is uw (which is pretty common use case) realm is totally fine

buttttt the moment orns kick in for horde boss it's like .. brutal

[elfin hound]

You know I got at arisen scruug sleigh blade arcane enchantment with a arcane book. It’s just too good. Which is why I pointed that the skill isn’t good enough in cases where you want to use arcane then just having a weapon enchanted. There isn’t much of a use case as having a runner up MF weapon with arcane damage repping out realm strikes is just going to be better then the non-crit option.

And with the length of time an dedication it takes to get Dorito, most players have a weapon or two that could be used for that purpose.

[gilded sedge]

TL:DR, just waiting for the added tool tip that "this skill is more effective when used by theives"
(First I'm seeing of delay strike(s))

[calm quail]

would prefer by realms instead of thieves

just in case the thief gilga variant can use it without penalty while dorito continues to use chain with penalty

[gilded sedge]

Theif gilga should be able to use it as effectively as dorado can use cs/ss

I want each class to have it's "thing", and to be better at it then other classes using borrowed skills

[patent comet]

This is an idea that keeps coming back to my mind when I think of those skills since yesterday

And yes, by RS rather than thieves

[dark jasper]

When picking a target on horde floors, if the game defaulted to picking whoever has their turn first, would that make avidity better?

Sorry I'm not in beta

[keen obsidian]

if you want to be in the beta, just download if from the app/play store and make a level 250 character 👍

[stark hound]

Avidity doesn’t steal the turn, it just gives you an extra turn outright

[dark jasper]

Oh lol

[marble raft]

It used to steal a turn though

[dark jasper]

I'm just behind

Last I read about it was like 2 weeks ago 😅

Ok well that was my 2c solution but I'm too late

[elfin hound]

I guess what should we talk about with the skills. I came in here guns blazing. But everything seems to be pretty chill about the skills.

Are there things that we should be testing/looking for?

[calm quail]

i think we're mostly just waiting on release and/or bug fix

[marsh belfry]

The only skills I care about currently are multi-hit, and those are off the table for this patch

Delayed strike is interesting, will likely get use niche use in PvP

Everything else is meh

A buff to sortie 2 would have been nice, make it competitive with the other celestial skills that were introduced

[pulsar pasture]

nah, 1 shot meta, 100k damage turn 1 (/turn too)

killed a gilga herc who started with 112k ward and got second chanced in 4-5 turns

[covert turret]

I tend to agree with this. We've been asking for sortie2 since realmshifter got introduced and I do find it a little lackluster

[pulsar pasture]

all it got was +3% cc right?

[calm quail]

and 0.1 m1?

[covert turret]

i believe so

think m1 is 1.9 and 18% crit

[gilded sedge]

For double the mana cost

Sortie was particularly cheap though

[covert turret]

i do use it for realm boss dungeon farming since the little extra penetration helps to make sure i'm ohko'ing those fallen realms

and with recharge the cost is still irrelevant

[stark hound]

Anyone on android that can confirm that avidity now procs when enemies die? Lost access to the beta since there’s no current iOS beta client, would love to confirm that bug got fixed

[covert turret]

When I checked the last time this came up a few days ago it did not seem to have been changed yet

I'll try again this afternoon but only have my castle dungeon to try

[covert turret]

nice

[stark hound]

Perfect, thanks for testing

[marsh belfry]

It will get used in area defense on realm.

Much better to force extra turns with delayed strike + avidity than to try and kill the attacker

[pulsar pasture]

Uhh..why tho?

[marsh belfry]

With procs realm is going to end up getting 5/6/7 turns in a row consistently enough to be reaallly annoying

[pulsar pasture]

Just have sortie 2 in your load out alone, 1 tap attacker

If you get DoTed delayed strike won't help much more than sortie 2 will

[marsh belfry]

Because reliably killing people as the area defender is suspect. Better to just waste turns.

Wasting turns also stops them from taking the next area too, rather than just the current one

[pulsar pasture]

Why is it suspect lol

[marsh belfry]

Because end game area control players aren't going to get killed by a single sortie unless you are playing swash.

And if you are playing swash you are dead before you can do anything

[pulsar pasture]

Maybe maybe

[marsh belfry]

Wasting enemy turns is ~always better for area defense. The goal isn't to defend every territory, it's to defend them in mass. Which delayed strike is really good for in combination with avidity

[pulsar pasture]

Buuuut if that's the case, you'll be dead turn 1 either way

Dorado won't, probably, maybe

But every other realm will

[marsh belfry]

Sure, but anybody serious about control will play Dorado anyway 😛 (or another class).

Going down the highway means you either one shot, or you are losing time. Trapping people with a high survivability defense to get past the first turn, and then trapping them delayed strike + avidity procs means they are driving past 2/3/4 territories that are now safe

I guarantee that people are going to complain about it at some point

[covert turret]

This

[marsh belfry]

Also, can you flee a fight if it isn't your turn?

Because if not,, delayed strike is hilariously effective

[pulsar pasture]

You can't which is funny

You can force close the app tho

[marsh belfry]

That's fine. Still time wasted

[pulsar pasture]

But just imagine only slotting delayed strike 3 in there...evil

[marsh belfry]

That is ~exactly what my plan is

[pulsar pasture]

I like it

[marsh belfry]

Delayed strike + katar for counter attack. Good luck.

[pulsar pasture]

What's the d.strike damage like? M1? M2?

[covert turret]

My best area "defesnse" build was gilga swash geared with ward double that of hp. Could eat an ultima and swing back, eat a second one and maybe second chance and swing back, maybe even swing a third time. And any swing that connected could kill. So if I made you skip 2 territories for every one you took, then I was winning lol

[marsh belfry]

No idea, probably not high enough to matter

[patent comet]

I'm gonna run defense with Dorado - Chronomancer with DS3 indeed

[pulsar pasture]

So ds3 guarantees turn steal?

Or just a high chance?

[patent comet]

Nop, that's the point of being chrono, asds a chance to put stasis for turn swaping

[pulsar pasture]

Might get fixed to where it needs to do at least 1 damage to proc

[patent comet]

DS3 doesn't steal turn though

[pulsar pasture]

I know

[patent comet]

It makes your opponent play later for 2 turns

Might be dangerous sometimes but overall a great advantage

[pulsar pasture]

I can read

"Turn steal" I just easier to say

[patent comet]

Ahah yes indeed

From the 200+ turns for each of the Delay skills i've made, i did not noticed a huge gap between each proc efficiencies, seems pretty much the same average

20-25% chances

[marsh belfry]

Presumably avidity and delayed strike can proc at the same time?

[patent comet]

Oh yes they do

Hmmm interesting, look at the last Delay Strike made, the gained turns ok but then the cactus plays for 2 turns eventhough i've missed him with DS

(and also there ds proc and avidity with it)

[gilded sedge]

It will be interesting to see if it gets more annoying than multiple second chances then auto DC on deity

[dark ridge]

Big brain strats right here

I forsee many complaints

[limpid ruin]

Yea, Ive been waiting for everyone else to kick off about Avidity in pvp.

I think when this goes fully live people are gonna lose their shit.

[dark ridge]

Oh yeah.

There's a world in which your pet gets an additional turn too but I guess I'm stuck here.

[pulsar pasture]

At least that's capped to 2

[gilded sedge]

Is that a recent change? When did that happen?

[dark ridge]

Within the last year

It seems like monsters can only second chance once now or in incredibly lucky/ blind.

[weak flare]

@potent axle my boy being done dirty here 😭

[dark ridge]

Tbf he did kick the shit out of me for it

[weak flare]

Hahaha fair enough

Seems like avidity is pretty nice though

[stark hound]

I’ve never seen a monster second chance twice

[dark ridge]

I swear Immortal Lord used to

[weak flare]

Immortal had done it to me

[stark hound]

Which is wildly inconsistent vs the behavior in pvp

I started noticing it in the last few months tbf

It probably behaved differently beforehand

[dark ridge]

Yeah it's just something that occurred to me with Towers since the Immortals used to be such an issue there.

But towers made me notice that they only do it once

[dark ridge]

https://youtu.be/GZuSbRMocao how do I get my boy to use Diffuse Ward in pvp?

[elfin hound]

I respect if arcane strikes stays. But I just think it just makes it look like Dorito gives more skills then it actually does. Cause no one slotted the 3 version, and it does nothing that special.

Sorry to hammer on that item. But I think it needs to be addressed. It is just so odd compared to the volume of tempting skills other classes got.

[elfin hound]

And to add another layer, why does horizontal slash slap so much harder then Sorti 2?

[cold vine]

or, why does guarding strikes 4 hit harder than hexacut?

[calm quail]

probably penet

[elfin hound]

Mathematically that makes sense. But as a game function why was that the intent, and should there be some remathing? Might as well talk about it if we are talking about c.skills in general

[cold vine]

no, it's not just penetration.

GS4 straight up does more damage than Hex, against a 0 defense enemy.
GS4 does even more damage than Hex against an enemy with any defense.

While providing ward turns

It's non-crit, so in some sense, who cares 😆 but it's a thing.

[wicked crater]

hexacut is very undertuned and also just.. out of place

[blissful thistle]

(in Beta) Dorito Charmer. (With Atk 3.4k)

Atk+, Atk++, Gunnr
Warriors Pavane: 50-70k DMG
Guarding Strikes IV: 45-50k DMG
Hexacut: 33-42k DMG
Swordplay 3: 34-60k DMG (depends on if temp Atk+)

Maybe Hexacut is that low cause Odie hopes avidity to kick in 🤔 ?

[hard sandal]

With avidity you can also go into Guarding strikes IV again for more DMG + ward turns (?)

[blissful thistle]

@hard sandal jep. thats right. ^^ also delay strike 3 seems for me personally not worth it (same setup as above) with just 18-25k DMG

[hard sandal]

The only use of delay strike is to waste time imo, it's not worth damage/mana wise

[blissful thistle]

@hard sandal yep. at least realms get an ability thats most useful for zwei-fencer. 😂

[hard sandal]

Technically, the skill could be used to not recieve damage in horde in cases where you don't need to deal lots of dmg, It comes at a somewhat high cost but it's something, a very situational skill imo, with a somewhat niche use

It's better than nothing though

[blissful thistle]

@hard sandal maybe means for i.e. towers i would have to zwei-fencer to get sweep and deal great damage otherwise that wont help much. cause mobs kill me faster than i am able to buff up ^^

[hard sandal]

The problem with Zwei in towers is that the M1 of Sweep is 1, meaning the dmg you deal in higher floors is near to 0 (if not 0), meaning that you NEED to use High M1 skills such as Horizontal Slash 3 or Omni/Osmos 3. With Catha you're usually able to survive the set-up

With dorado it's easier since you get the auto-ward + regen, so you can use Pseudo-aoe skills such as CS (with 50% effectiveness), with high M1 so it can pierce the oponent's defense and kill them, also, aside from being a M1 skill, it's Pseudo- aoe with a 60% chance of hitting another enemy, so you're able to kill more than 1 enemy with a single click, being turn wise simply better than most other skills, since it doesn't matter if you deal 300k dmg on a 20k hp enemy, you can deal 100k to 2 enemies and be faster still

Anyway, RS won't get a Pseudo-aoe skill this patch so I'll stop here

[blissful thistle]

@hard sandal yep unfortunately

[hard sandal]

Btw, what are the M1 & M2 of Delay strike 3?

[dark ridge]

4909 attack into 7598 defense with no other boosts ranged from ~6k to ~8k so I'm gonna go with low

Actually that's on par with non crit HS3

At 2726 attack into 7520 it still manages ~2k, slightly better than non-crit sortie 2. So it must have some m1.

I'm really not the person to answer this but the m1 appears to be 2.1

2600 attack into 9130 defense and it does about 900 damage and (2600×2.1-9130/2) is right around there

Definitely higher than Sortie 2 which is putting out 370ish but HS3 doing 2000ish

M2 around 0.9-1.1, damage ranges from high 800s to low 1100s

But I'm not as familiar with m2 so it may be more like 1-1.2?

The numbers seem to coincide with 4909 atk cs 7598 def so

[hard sandal]

2.1 M1 is really good if you don't take the fact that it can't crit, it might get used for Towers if you don't want to do CS Dorado, it's a possibility

[gilded sedge]

I feel like it has potential to be a great over world/farming with a little more tuning

[wicked crater]

maybe a lot more tuning lol

[gilded sedge]

Well, yea

[covert turret]

Pretty sure either m1 or m2 is normally 1 in most skills

So m2 on this is most likely 1

Pretty sure osmo/omni 3 is m1 2.1 and m2 of 1

Could be a good comparison

[covert turret]

I'm wrong, m1 is 2 on those

So based on that m1 may be 2.1

Try element strike 2

Its m1 is 2.2

Just don't use faction element

[dark ridge]

Do you mean 3?

I'm lightning

[covert turret]

Not the new ones

[dark ridge]

That's Firestrike 2 and 3

2 can't penetrate

I think anything below 1.78 will 0

[hard sandal]

M1 of Elementstrike 2 is 1.5, of Fire 3 is 2

[dark ridge]

Makes perfect sense

[covert turret]

For fire it would be emberstrike 2

The ones you get from God classes

[dark ridge]

Oh loke Galestrike ok

[hard sandal]

Ohh you mean those

[covert turret]

Yeah

Their m1 is 2.2

[hard sandal]

Emberstrike II M1 is 2.2 don't know about III

I'll do some math in a second

[dark ridge]

Close to HS3, maybe 2.4

[covert turret]

DS3 may be 2.2 based on that

[dark ridge]

When I had a weapon on it did manage to still penetrate with near full resurgence 2

Ds3 that is

I didn't have resurgence active on the attacker

[covert turret]

🍻

[dark ridge]

It uh, also appears to proc on miss

But I was considering not bringing that up lol

[hard sandal]

It is 2.4 M1

[dark ridge]

Look at me go, quick maffs

[hard sandal]

xDD

[covert turret]

Makes sense

[hard sandal]

I was like: "shit, I can't find Emberstrike II", Then I remembered I'm lightning faction

[dark ridge]

Also, M2 is basically just the random damage range, yeah?

[covert turret]

1 is 2 and 2 is 2.2 so 3 being 2.4 follows

[hard sandal]

Yeah, being 1

[hard sandal]

Yessir

[covert turret]

Yeah

[hard sandal]

Is it possible that the M1 of Delay is 1.9?

No it isn't

[dark ridge]

Stronger than Sortie 2 by a wide margin

Non crit ofc

[hard sandal]

M1 of Sortie 2 is 1.9, right?

[dark ridge]

Yis

[hard sandal]

Delay has more M1 but a lower min M2 than Sortie

Still trying to figure out numbers

If you have any idea of the M1 lmk

[hard sandal]

It MIGHT be 2.1 m1 & 0.9-1.3 M2, I'm not sure

For Delay 3 that is

Delay 2 can be 1.2 M1, 0.9 - 1.3 M2

Delay 1 can be 1.1 M1, 0.9 - 1.2 M2

This means that the difference between Delay 3 & 2 is huge, with a 0.9 M1 difference

Sadly we can't use the x2.5 crit multiplier with it

[dark ridge]

At those values it'd probably be the best skill in the game if it could crit

[pulsar pasture]

delay's turn, high M1, can crit? sounds like it'd take arena by storm

[stark hound]

Can’t crit

[pulsar pasture]

saying if it could

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah I'm just saying that it's sad, not that it wouldn't be op 😂 Delay strike technically has an innate a M2 boost depending on the chance, btw, anyone has any proc chance?

[gilded sedge]

What, a decent penetrating skill for realm?!

[blissful thistle]

what means M1? M2?

[marble raft]

They're values in the damage formula.

To put it simply, the higher the M1, the higher the penetration of a skill/spell - it can deal high damage through defense/resistance.

The higher the M2, the higher the post-defense/resistance damage is. It deals high damage, but gets reduced pretty significatively by defense/resistance

[blissful thistle]

@marble raft ahh k thx ^^

[marble raft]

For further questions, please refer to the appropriate questions channel, since this isn't really the place 😅

[blissful thistle]

^^ yeah sorry cause it was the topic the last messages i asked cause it seemed faster, when people are talking about it ^^

[viscid solar]

sorry if I missed this topic in the thread. have we talked about how arcane strikes IV seems so out of place on Dorado theme and style. plus at a 3 turn cost its dmg seems fairly low. just wondering what other people thought. it seems Dorado is really dependent on other classes to get skills that make an impact.

[pulsar pasture]

we went over it yes

conclusion: it sucks

[surreal socket]

Tried it and worst Skill ever

[surreal socket]

Thief Skill kek

They should be . Steal a Skill ans doing better 10%

Would be fun

Dorado steal Chained shield and use it

[latent cobalt]

Logging in to see I'm not deity makes me cry sometimes 😂

[viscid solar]

yeah, I get that the class is a "Thief" I would like to see more Realm shifter themed abilities though not "Thief" ones. something along the lines for Dorado since its more defensive based. Like Phase out of the world and appear behind target empower your strike with X amount of ward to do increased dmg. Or a 2 turn ability similar to like DIG or Fly in pokemon(giggle) Phase out of world and receive 100% dodge chance for 1 turn, next turn unleash an attack with power amplified by how many attacks you dodged during turn one. I dunno just throwing ideas out there. Or something like Realmshatter: Charge your blades with Ward/Realm energy and attack, Attack does increased ward dmg and "Shatters Ward for X rounds" makes it so their top ward is reduced or heck make it so the RS steals the next ward regeneration from enemy and grants it to RS.

[queen wave]

So it's been a minute since the intial hype and discord threads are a PIA to search through.
Avidity is expected to be the help RS needs for horde content. From what I gathered it is noticeable in horde dungeons, while some pain points still stand.

Dear beta testers: How does base RS feel in towers? Does Avidity noticeably speed up tower runs? Or make them safer? Or nothing?
Is Bloodshift still mandatory with the switch to recharge 1 or can it be swapped for a increased dot damage amity to achieve max. Resurgence without needing to use a turn to recast Bloodshift?

[hard sandal]

From my beta experience, (229 6al RS), I still have a LOT of trouble doing towers f25+, meanwhile I can still reliably do f50 with Deity, with the same gear & spec (catha). Yes, It's somewhat better, but still has a lot of problems, specially for people that doesn't have dorado, And tbh, I would often forget about avidity since the proc chance wasn't that high, something that I understand since it's multiplicative with hits, sadly enough, we can't use a thematic Pseudo-aoe to make it avidity more interesting in towers

Without bloodshift and without bers dmg cap, currently players will heal 25% while having some health going down. My problem is: When 1 hp, you will ALWAYS heal to 25%, doesn't matter if you have 50k bers dmg on yourself (I'm exagerating this part), you will always heal to 25%, because since bers dmg can't kill you, it becomes 0 when 1 hp

[winter temple]

It's not surprising that you've a better time with deity. Past some point, tower is a stat check on you defenses and Deity is the tanky rs/heretic so it's a little better in towers by design. idk what stuff you use but you should try to get more tanky stuff, that could help. you can also try to play with ward turn amity (give you 5 turns for free AND you start at 50% absorption instead of 25%) + berserk3 + phoenix.

you'll not have the best clear time, but you're only 229 so that sounds fair.

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah, I know why Deity is better than base RS in towers, specially at low levels with the difference of def/res that deity provides. And I was not whining about it, I was just saying what I was doing for towers and the difference that avidity gives to RS in lower levels

[surreal socket]

I dont expect so much about avidity . Maybe 5min in towers 🤔

As base rs

[hard sandal]

Essentially the problem with avidity is that you also have to hit the attack button again, something that it's good & bad at the same time, since you offer yourself variables but you lose more time in the meantime rather than having a X% of doublecast

So even if it gives Rs a bit more survivality (specially on horde content), the time used is still the same, and we have to say that the survivality is increased for players that can use AOE skills, meaning only high lv players (aka: Dorado CS/AV) get a better shot at avidity.

The graphs showed that "People who do towers, can complete towers". Meaning that the people that had already farmed towers (aka: Current Dorado's) and people that can already farm them consistently (same as before, current dorado's), get more suvivaility (not that they needed it much), meanwhile the people that didn't do towers because they couldn't do towers (aka: Lower level players, or non current Dorado users) get a lower surviviality bonus, since not only they can't use Pseudo AOE skills, but they also have a lower avidity (I am not saying that they should put avidity at a lower/higher rate)

One of the main problems with towers was the time it took to complete them.

With all the other classes having thematic pseudo AOE skills (won't go on detail on this), the problem with Rs is that by default they took they had to use more turns to kill enemies since CS & AV can defeat 1.6/turn

With RS getting avidity, RS now has a 20% boost (with dorado, but smh) to turns, meaning that they have 20% more turns than average. But that also means that even if they get more turns, the enemies killed each turn is still the same, meaning that the time saved for an RS is negligible

Rather than a time-saving passive, Avidity is a survivality passive, one that is better for using skills not thematic or from RS, and that only players that don't need a survivality passive can use it at it's full potential

Same with Delay strike, the new skill

giving yourself new turns doesn't make the skill more efficient time-wise, it only increases your survivality by making enemies not hit you at that time, being why the only remote use Delay Strike has is at Area defense

TLDR: with avidity & Delay strikes, you're not saving yourself time, you're taking it from the oponent, increasing indirectly your survivality. You're not saving meaningful time, something that something like AV or CS, you're just wasting the enemie's

[surreal socket]

Horde problem is take deity al 0 and you can carry your mate in 4 rounds

Thats why i upgrade some stuff for deity horde and totally forget horde as rs

[winter temple]

you want more def and more aoe ? would you sacrifice your 25% more crit damage for that ? because if RS becomes as strong as deity for said activities, then deity won't have a purpose. maybe rs needed some help, but not so much help that it becomes even or stronger that classes designed to be good at that.
imo an equivalent to AV for rs with avidity would be too strong now.

[dark ridge]

That feels empty considering Heretic. Unless they're losing that bonus.

[surreal socket]

Actually i can carry t10 hard with rs stuff ITS yolo

[calm quail]

that extra crit dmg is one of the reason why av rs can barely work

currently

[hard sandal]

I haven't said I want more defense. What I said is that lower level people need more defensive capabilities at lower levels, meanwhile they need more AOE in higher levels

What lower level RS needs: Survivality

What Higher level RS needs: Time efficiency

What lower level RS has: Somewhat more survivality that can't be used with their potential

What Higher level Rs has: More survivality than it needs

"All classes can clear all content", that's why I say "than it needs" in high lv RS has

[winter temple]

indeed heretic is an outlier even Odie is afraid to face

[calm quail]

though honestly, i don't mind losing the extra crit dmg on dorito for a better horde life

[hard sandal]

Plain defense/offense might work if that's what you want, but survivality is not exactly that

[calm quail]

but only on dorito

[surreal socket]

Agreed with dorito

[dark ridge]

😏 I appreciate you habibi.

[hard sandal]

that's because you can't crit with cs, right?

[calm quail]

yep, also no crit on sweep and arrowstorm

[hard sandal]

It totally makes sense tbh

[winter temple]

embrace the pavane life brothers

[hard sandal]

meaning that if you're not gonna use a passive, why have it

[calm quail]

outside of few outliers, no one really plays dorito crit in pve

[winter temple]

dorito meta is gilga stuff ?

[hard sandal]

Yes

[calm quail]

yep

[winter temple]

I tried it on deity but it needs so much stuff and AL that I stoped really fast

(unless dorado have more damage on spikedshield like gilga but I doubt)

[hard sandal]

Nope, but Dorado has ward regen built-in

So it's RS Catha + free spec

and you can go catha on top of that for extra ward regen/ward

And instead of prome hands, ward regen/ward celestial

[winter temple]

ok but the damage should be meh

[hard sandal]

You start with 100% ward, so it's not "that bad"

You still need items and al's to make it work nicely

[winter temple]

when i tested with deity I had 90k ward and 8k attack, damages where still bad but maybe because I don't have SS3

[dark ridge]

I mean even with 350k ward ss isn't so great lol

[calm quail]

yeah it's not that bad if you're already expecting it to be worse than gilga

it's just that more people expects it to be same or better than gilga

deity probably still do it better than dorito

[winter temple]

i mean, if it's best dorado play and still 50% less powerful than gilga then you can just remove it from the game

[calm quail]

can't really remove it since dorito doesn't own it

it's just borrowing toys from gilga

like how deity borrows from all rs/here/gilga

[winter temple]

does anyone tried dorado charmer ? can't really go wrong with pavane spaming.

[gritty helm]

Are realm crying?

Looks like a skill issues

[calm quail]

mage pavane? nope haven't tried

[winter temple]

no, warrior.

[calm quail]

i don't have a buff duration + hybrid amity combo

[gritty helm]

Single target meh

[hard sandal]

Warrior's pavane doesn't compare to Realmstrikes :/, we still have the +40% crit dmg and a x2.5 crit dmg

[winter temple]

unless each turn is a kill, and dorado have 20% more turns

[gritty helm]

Realmsrikes exist

Sortie exist

[calm quail]

remember avidity isn't in live yet

[gritty helm]

Anything who can crit exist

[calm quail]

so we don't have 20% more turns yet

[winter temple]

remember it's beta feedback channel

[gritty helm]

Use Deity Ursa strikes III with realm Dorado

2.4 M1 + crit + heal

[calm quail]

and with the amount of people that tried (probably zero) it looks like not worth

especially if no one does it in live too

since live non crit meta is guarding strikes

[hard sandal]

20% more turns doesn't mean we have more time efficiently, something that High level players want, we have more "survivality"

Since it's also essentially "X% less turns for the oponent"

[winter temple]

stop pretending that clicking a button twice is the reason you're slow

[calm quail]

have people actually touched warrior pavane after guarding strikes pen buff

[winter temple]

on live I do use both, pavane is better unless raid scales too much for its M1

[calm quail]

aside from the cheap people who aren't willing to spec swap out of charmer

[gritty helm]

Underestimated

[hard sandal]

Time of moving in towers corresponds to 50% of the playthrough on Heretic, on the other half, they can kill 1.6 enemies each click, we still have to click those 0.6 remaining

[winter temple]

how dare you ! warrior pavane, mage pavane, instrument proficiency, more mana, more ward... the spec is perfect

[gritty helm]

The spec is useless

Sry to say the truth

[calm quail]

who has mana problems when fero exists

[gritty helm]

Who want t9 dmg

[calm quail]

oh right serpentslayer now exists too

i only touch charmer on dragon event since my mage dance isn't enough to one shot ymir

[gritty helm]

You can use sweep with dragon gears

Will be enough

[calm quail]

i'll do that on the next drag event, i didn't have chim melee weap on the last 2 runs

[gritty helm]

-Chimera weapon
-Align book
-bulwark
-30% amity

[winter temple]

what T9 damage, I can hit up to 1.2M with warrior's pavane at level 238

[gritty helm]

Yeah, t9 dmg

[elfin hound]

Hey folks let’s keep this focused on beta feedback. It would really be nice to focus specifically on the skills as I think that is the item that was just set out in beta

[dark ridge]

I use Ara Vesta, so no, gilga skills being bad on realm doesn't bug me.

[gritty helm]

T9 dmg

What I am saying

[gritty helm]

SS is good even without gilga

[winter temple]

T9 damage with T10 gear, you lier

[gritty helm]

T10 weapon

T8 helm

T9 armor

T10 boots (can be T5)

T7 accessories

A t9 class is doing ur dmg x2

Sad right?

[winter temple]

T10 weapon with 6 prom you lier

[gritty helm]

5

A t9 can have prom too

And now?

T9 Nyx will have avidity guys?

[hard sandal]

Yes, avidity 1 with 10% proc chance

[gritty helm]

Without losing any passive?

[surreal socket]

Wait

[stark hound]

I don’t understand why Dorito crit is even something we’re talking about. In what scenario are people using Dorito where that matters?

It was never meant to be a raiding class, and even there it’s not absolutely incompetent , it’s just outperformed by base and Corvus

[dark ridge]

If you get my crit taken away I will be very nonplussed.

Although I will trade it for a natural increase to AoE damage.

[patent comet]

I'm raiding just fine as a dorito oracle with 2 Crit amities, just too lazy to switch for corvus, and even there I don't find the Crit chain that efficient for raiding since the burst of dmg comes from DC / Lugus, and they never last 10 rounds... I like my Dorado raiding pattern

I've tried many times to enjoy raiding as corvus but it never fits, DC fades away so fast that the chain never get uplighted, and the dmg spectrum of RS is too wide to notice the 10% each turns, and when it could finally count, the raid is already gone even as Dorado... i really use it just for OR

But for endless Corvus will be a great asset

[dark ridge]

Are you self casting DC?

[patent comet]

I've tried phoenix and self casting for chim buff but I find it boringly disapointing on both sides

Corv oracle, corv raider... Meh not that worthy. Sure it's slightly faster than regular/dorito, but noone is after me

[stark hound]

I’ve been clearing KRaids as dorado and there’s actually something really comfy about just casting bears might into gunnr into RS2 and not having to worry about dieing while still clearing them relatively quickly

[patent comet]

Ahah yep, comfy is the term. I've long enjoyed the redline danger of RS gameplay but I'm an old one nowadays, I need my chicoree before bed and confort while raiding

Dorado is for those whom are too old for this sh.. 🙂

[covert turret]

So much this. Would happily trade the 25% crit on Dorado for an extra 25% on chained shield!

[surreal socket]

Actually it can be faster on Low raids as swash

[stark hound]

Swash isn’t really a fair comparison since you can also go swash on base realm and Corvus. Speed on lower raids will always be dependent on gear and ALs though

[surreal socket]

Buc actually something is missing

Need cs need ça for tower so much cost when other classes doing better

Il be waiting maybe another year

[stark hound]

Meh, some classes do worse as well, Dorado’s speed on towers isn’t really terrible when you consider how safe it is at it

[surreal socket]

Actually feeling sad when Looking gs going floor 800+

[stark hound]

Remember when we got an item that let us get to 600/700 and it got nerfed super quickly?

[glacial scroll]

Thing is you literally can't nerf GS endless

[stark hound]

That just makes it even more problematic

[hard sandal]

Losing saboteur

[gritty helm]

Ew

Looks... Meh

All t9 class are bad against summoners shit

Why removing passive like saboteur ?

[stark hound]

Who cares about Nyx? T9 is just rushing to T10 anyway so you can finish the tutorial

[gritty helm]

Talk better to my Nyx

[hard sandal]

Not being a raiding class doesn't mean that there can't be a crit skill that can be used effectively. In horde, the best crit skill the is at its peak it's Ara Vesta

That's the equivalent of a Heretic needing to use use Realmstrikes to raid, I personally, wouldn't like it or agree with it

[stark hound]

Who’s using ara vesta in horde when mages dance exists? Unless you mean towers, that’s a whole other conversation

Heretics are already raiding with Magic Chakram, which is pretty close to a magic Realmstrikes 😅

[elfin hound]

It would really be a great opportunity for realm to pick up a raid skill that isn’t realm strikes. Many other classes have competitive options, yet strikes is the clear option for all content (except endless, which is a very small portion of content)

[gritty helm]

Let's refund realm

[surreal socket]

Star alignement

Its a trap

[fervent kestrel]

What

[gritty helm]

That's my realm

[gritty helm]

Bro I only have DC

[fervent kestrel]

How, that must because of celestial, no way, i only can do 5M

And have to be very lucky with buffs lol

[gritty helm]

Only DC and wyrm

[fervent kestrel]

Nvm, i forgot you were swash there

Swash influences a lot right in dmg

[hard sandal]

The thing is that Magic Charkram is already a mage skill, meanwhile we have to switch to Ara Vesta in order to be efficient with our crit passive at Towers/high def horde mode content

[stark hound]

Triple zerks, fully buffed. Wonder how much that shot would be if were an ultima from a caster lol

Be a shame if horseman used miasma while you’re casting DC and the raid ended immediately as well

[stark hound]

There’s literally one person using Ara Vesta afaik, Chained Shield is a much easier to build alternative

I’m obviously all for a 2-hit skill for realm but we’ve been repeatedly told it’s not happening this patch, I don’t get why people keep talking about it in this thread

[hard sandal]

I am not saying that CS isn't hard to do, but in order to keep our identity of a "crit class", we have to move to Ara Vesta

[stark hound]

Ah yes, the “identity” of using a mage skill, much more in tune with realm

Dorado is a half warrior class, CS is very in tune with its identity imo

[hard sandal]

I'm not looking for a 2-hit skill currently, I'm looking for something that can bennefit in towers both low-lv players and high level players, right now Avidity does almost nothing for both

[hard sandal]

That's exactly the irony, we have to use our "polar oposite" in order to keep ourselves being "ourselves"

[gritty helm]

9.999.999 ofc

[hard sandal]

Then we can simply remove the x2.5 crit dmg and add something else to it, right? I mean, it's not being used and clearly the intention is not to use it there then

Like remove the x2.5 crit dmg but add bonuses depending on the crit% we have, or make that crit% also influence the dex dorado has, or affect it in other matters

[gritty helm]

Can my deity Ursa have these dmg too pls?

[hard sandal]

Can't you have t.att ++ in order to also get the 50% dmg boost from crit?

IIrc x2.5 < x2x1.5 (x3)

[gritty helm]

Yeah but the proc rate sucks a lot and a lot

[hard sandal]

Sounds like a skill issue to me

[gritty helm]

And very very hard to redline with (to not say impossible)

[hard sandal]

Without bloodshift it's literally impossible to redline (unless miss or waste turns)

Our heal will never put us at 1 hp

If we heal for 1 while we have 1000 hp and DOT dmg is 2000, we are at 2 hp after calculations

That's pure bs

[gritty helm]

Yeah but you can use bloodshift

[hard sandal]

5% more crit, yay

[gritty helm]

1.1x stats

I want to use bloodshift on deity too

But I can't

cries in pain

[hard sandal]

I remember when I tried the berserk from the giant event

I also cried at that moment

I was so fking hyped

[gritty helm]

I remember when bloodshift was only a 999dot and 20% crit

Now we can't use this buff anymore with deity

[hard sandal]

There was a suggestion I made to reverse Bloodshift & berserks

to make berserks act like pseudo bloodshift & bloodshift like Berserks

That way both bloodshift & berserks can be used by all classes and berserks can pose a somewhat active threat that can't be just cured by life-steal/ashen crystal

[gritty helm]

Well

Give HT to Ursa deity

[patent comet]

At what moment did you think we would believe you, here... Only DC & wyrm 😅😅😅
Ok you need to talk talk talk and show show show but this chanel purpose is not meant for that, let's move on

[gritty helm]

The only temps buff are DC and wyrm

[stark hound]

If you remove the crit bonus from Dorado you make towers 3x harder for lower AL realms. Those can’t make CS work so they need to go crit build and dorado is the fastest tower clearer with that

Also, crit bonus is definitely being used by all the people that mentioned they’re raiding with dorado here today

I don’t really see how you want to keep realm’s identity but then want to remove the 2.5x crit bonus

[gritty helm]

Dorado realm use...

[hard sandal]

Then the same continues to be, Avidity still only benefits effieciently in things that High level/al players don't need or want (essentially), meanwhile lower al/lv Rs (dorado, base or whatever) still struggle with their use of the passive

removing the crit% & adding a bonus from crit% into something like CS effectiveness or ward regen or ward quantity

[gritty helm]

Oracle double 40% and sortie2 right?

[stark hound]

1 40% and realmstrikes 2

Or 2 if you’re running oracle

[gritty helm]

Dorado have cata without nothing

(I'm talking about tower)

Why using an other spec than Oracle?

[stark hound]

The problem with avidity in towers is having to use a multi hit skill to get a higher proc rate, which is limited by not having a multi hit skill. Removing core features from the class that makes other content viable to fix that doesn’t seem like the right call to me

[hard sandal]

The thing is that I don't! I give options about possible dorado changes because crit is clearly not it's identity anymore! Either that has to come back or more changes to dorado should be made to reinforce that CS playstile

[stark hound]

Because I’m lazy and most of the time I’m doing horde dungeons, so I just stay on zwei. If I’m going to be doing a longer raid session, might as well swap to base RS or Corvus

[gritty helm]

Yeah, but you are not a little realm

[stark hound]

How is removing crit not a core part from a thief classline? Dorado is a pretty competent raider, removing that will make him absolutely useless there

[stark hound]

Yea, but little realms should be swapping to base realm if they want to raid effectively

[gritty helm]

Imo realms should keep 2.5x crit

And here too

[gritty helm]

I was talking about towerrrrs

[stark hound]

Ah, I see. Well, there’s not much of a reason to swap to oracle if you’re using the CS build

If you’re going crit then yea, oracle should be ideal

[hard sandal]

The damage would theoretically become similar as deities, with innate ward regen and being more classified as a safe class, also remember that that x2.5 should not be going for free

Either way, i'm just pulling something that shouldn't be the answer to the problem

[gritty helm]

I think Dorado + 2 40% is the easiest for a little realm

[gritty helm]

Hello from my low deity dmg

[stark hound]

I’m sorry, but have you played Dorado? I fail to see how what you’re proposing wouldnt just tank its DPS

[hard sandal]

I totally agree that the problem is the one you said. What would you try to change about it so it it better for both the interest of lower level and high level realms?

[stark hound]

I’m assuming that would be the case, yes

[stark hound]

I’d make a 2-hit thief skill

Hell, give it a lower proc chance to make up for avidity

[hard sandal]

I love the answer, but that's sadly not possible for now 😂

By the way, sorry if i'm sounding somewhat agressive, i'm not trying to be, saying this just in case

[stark hound]

But anything other than that will either warp other content (a passive that increases avidity proc chance would destroy pvp for ex) or just feel unsatisfactory

[gritty helm]

Imo Sortie II should hit 2 target like Ara Vesta II

[hard sandal]

I have played dorado, not as much as many other players have played it, but I have been in touch with the main characteristics of the class

[stark hound]

The core of the issue is exactly that. Avidity depends on how many targets you hit. That’s perfect for horde dungeons, but doesn’t help much in towers where you don’t want to buff to the point where sweep is actually useful. With no way to hit more than 1 opponent, avidity won’t have much impact in towers

[stark hound]

I’d rather see something with a different mechanic than just a copy paste skill but I’ll take almost anything at this point 😅

[gritty helm]

Why not will be strong enough to be used

[hard sandal]

I'd also like to point out the "The players that do towers, can complete them", since that separates most of the playerbase in the towers' perspective

The source of that quote can be identified by the data they posted about the balance changes

[stark hound]

It definitely would, don’t get me wrong. I just like variety. Overkill damage (with a % reduction ofc) is one of my favorite proposed ways to do it

[gritty helm]

I'm not against avidity with my deity Ursa sweep in tower 😂

[hard sandal]

For a class that "focuses" on single-target damage, I find this mechanic VERY interesting and apealing

[hard sandal]

Why have 1 crit dopamine when you can have 2 😂

[stark hound]

Had to stop using fomor equipment because it only proc’d when I used quad edge and kept killing me 😂

[patent comet]

Trying to see how efficient those are really

[stark hound]

Id love to know a proc % on a full build with those, the armor pieces aren’t half bad

[patent comet]

Dbl quad = dbl self dmg as well ? ^^

[stark hound]

Yup

It’s exactly the same as casting it twice, double side effects, double mana cost etc

[patent comet]

Sadly I only have mid- low pieces so the ward and stats will prevent me to use them on full set.. still hopping to drop some goodies, here only the helmet is a decent legendary 😅

Well Shield isn't Bad either

But the chest and legs i have are only sup :/

I'll givre it a try anyway on full set ahah

[gritty helm]

cries in Deity low dmg

(I can't cry in Deity thread, they closed it)

[patent comet]

😅

Meh, way to slow to test it in tower, will try a regular hord gaunt

[stark hound]

Just got 2 procs out of 39 attacks in a horde dungeons (excluded attacks where only one opponent was available)

With a full set

So not a great % 😅

[patent comet]

Ah more lucky here

6 on a 20 floors

Notice the third, it Crit and doesn't Crit, still separate rolls

Would Gobannos pure warrior Off-Hand give more % proc chance than the Fomorian King's Shield with mixed passives ?

[patent comet]

Damn, you're right it eats you double the mana, didn't even noticed that ! Not cool, the second hit should be a free shot with those items 😅

[stark hound]

It should

[patent comet]

Ah, sadly it would appear that i've dismantled the crappy famed one I had for a couple of tests out of despair ^^ Well, would have cut the survivability even further so not such a loss

[dark ridge]

I may be weird but at least I am entertaining.

[surreal socket]

Sûre

[queen wave]

Any news or insights?

[surreal socket]

Were fucked

[queen wave]

Nothing new

[hard sandal]

I think this is the best resume anyone could give atm xD

[stark hound]

This is literally the worst take possible about a patch where realm is getting such a significant power boost. These types of comments piss me off a bit, so many people put forward constructive criticism and suggestions, NF listened and adapted based on it but it looks like some people are never satisfied

[visual wing]

Avidity is cool !

[marble raft]

If this is your opinion, then perhaps you might want to elaborate, give some concrete data on it, suggest a change, and ask for a pin

[surreal socket]

Actually WE got some minor changes +5%stats(hello beo dont look)

Corvus endless ok (hello summoners floor 900+al 35)

Dorito is still dorito

Avidity yeah (Turn economy ?>nerf prom

So less DMG and a rng passiv

So what do you want to say more

Its better than nothing but Clearly Not what all rs Wanted here

[marble raft]

prometheus nerfs aren't exactly realmshifter nerfs, since they affect ~everyone (other than summoner)

[surreal socket]

Yup but were in

[marble raft]

so it's not worth mentioning

[hard sandal]

Here's is something I typed a few days ago speaking about Avidity, if you feel it's a good message that could be pinned feel free to put it into a message and pin it (or I can put in inside on a single message myself, however you want)

[surreal socket]

For Turn economy

[calm quail]

avidity is a dung horde solution and dung horde solution is one of the things i wanted on dorito ever since the class release

[marble raft]

Avidity is also a redline maintenance solution, as it allows you to recover the turns you spend applying bloodshift/healing DoTs

[surreal socket]

So launch a Skill 2 time is Not a Turn economy when other classes can go all dungeon in 4 Turn

[stark hound]

Dorado is my favorite class atm in the beta patch, don’t really see while people keep complaining about it

[visual wing]

Pin this !

[stark hound]

Done

[timid plume]

Remember, this is a balance patch - we're looking to ensure RS + Beo can consume content with similar ease as other classes.

If your issue is with the core design of the class and the current pitfalls for single opponent dominance, that would be out of scope of a balance patch.

Avidity gives you a ton of solutions to many problems that RS has. If you only look at it as an extra press of the Attack button, you may not be considering everything it enables.

[patent comet]

I'm also in Love with Dorado from a Beta perspective, Avidity3 combined with Delay strikes opens so much possibilities gameplay-wise (and fun-wise), but somewhat I'm still "questionning" the impact of Resurgence2. Are those 10% really usefull, or could they see a bit of an upgrade - not much, or be put aside to stay with resurgence1 and find something else ?

I'm not saying that I'm not ok with it atm, but just wondering

[timid plume]

Resurgence II is 25%, fyi

[patent comet]

Oh, ok ! My mistake then ; I'm really ok with that and happy to hear the numbers ! I thought it was 10% from my testings on cactus with regular attack

For the rng aspect of the passive, I'm really not bothered by that. Even more, I find it kinda thrilling ^^ Really great to have it proc, much more fun than some 100% relyable thing. Sure it can get frustrating, but what I loved with Realmie was the thrilling aspect that came with redlining with death everywhere, now that thrill is back on a different level

Didn't we all believe resurgence2 was 10% ? ^^

[stark hound]

25% as in 25% higher boost than resurgence I?

[barren geyser]

Well cant deny what dev says now haha

I would see avidity as another stat like evade but working both offensive and defensive. But like evade it only shines if you proc it often

[patent comet]

Good to ask properly, that's what I understood from Odie's answer ahah

[timid plume]

yes, +25% stats to Resurgence I

(at full passive)

[patent comet]

I'm litterally chocked by this revelation 😅

In a good way ^^

[marsh belfry]

If you're still around Odie, has there been any more thought around bumping up the avidity proc chance when applying or cleansing a debuff?

[stark hound]

Thanks for the confirmation 🙏

[visual wing]

2manyturns

Don't even know what to do

[gilded sedge]

That does seem a bit much...

Edit, definitely not enough. More, we need more

[surreal socket]

No dont even say that

Its never too much

WE want more Not less

[elfin hound]

One piece of feed back that I think is worth mentioning is that arcane strikes 4 is an odd add and I think there is some room for a revision. There isn’t a lot of use cases for multi turn non criting element skills, especially for redline classes

Additionally Sorti 2 has such a high mana cost for little power increase, that it might be another item that shouldn’t need juice. But maybe a different revision. Sorti 1 is a god tier skill. So I don’t think that another edition was really needed either

Imo tho so take it with a grain of salt

[surreal socket]

Amen

[elfin hound]

Avidity is an amazing add and I think it will make the class much more engaging for horde. With some identity built in.

[visual wing]

-suggest Arcane Strikes 4 to become

Arcane AoE akin Chain Shield except it works best on Dorado.

Dorado Splash

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-viralhog-catching-a-fish-trying-to-catch-a-huge-fish-gif-26311940

☆10 🗡️ •

Attack with a splash of arcane energies, converting ward to arcane damage that may hit an additional opponent. This skill will be best utilized by the Dorado

140 mana • ×××× power

[hard sandal]

It's an interesting aoe skill idea, sadly it won't come (yet)

also, would it be able to crit?

[visual wing]

Ah i hadn't seen that message - thank you 🙂

I'd say yes to crit chance of 40%

[elfin hound]

Or even something that plays into the mystery element status effect and source of arcane.

Expose the rift:

2 turn skill that leaves the foe weak to physical attacks for a short time. Deals paltry to immense damage. Non crit

[visual wing]

Delayed Realm Burst

Requires 2 turns; slip into another realm and attack from the shadows using a burst of ward energy expelled from the caster in a dome. Hits all enemies. Vastly diminished effect from non dorado classes.

This plus avidity could be fun.

player slipped into the shifty shadows
Player gets another turn!
player used Delayed Realm Burst

Miss!

[queen wave]

I would love this!

Sucks to spend 20k shards, only to not use any skills and grind for another 20k for chained shield

As this is almost a must have for dorado towers

And my realm heart would love HS3, that's another 20k

[gilded sedge]

Pretty much

[wicked crater]

yeahhh it would be nice for realm's celestials to have worthwhile skills. it's good that other class skills are desirable, even in celestials... but it would be nice for that to be true of realm's skills lol

[cold vine]

Realmshift2 is very desirable
... for beo and summoner.

Quad Edge is very desirable
... for beo/A.

[wicked crater]

it's not like the design space is filled out for realmshifter-style skills. it's very unexplored.

quadedge is good for cutting turns out of extremely long setup times, but it's never a core move.

realmshift2 is cool, but not a particularly big upgrade. realmshift is just niche. would be nice if it were more commonly useful, especially to realm itself 😅

and then the rest are... uh, yeah. they exist, i guess

good for them

[patent comet]

Realmshift (1 & 2) could be more effective for Realmshifters (I mean, we litterally are in the name 😅), and / or have a little something-something added when used by them (t.dex + ?, Increased avidity proc ?). Could help a little to add the spells in loadouts

By effectivness, the positive proc chances could be higher or their duration could be longer (both ?). I also enjoyed, when bloodshift and realmshift were first introduced, trying to figure out if they synergized together ; could be an idea for improved talents of realms

[surreal socket]

Rs2 should do a bit more DMG

A bit

[patent comet]

And miss more, then. I don't really see the use for more dmg : PvP-wise, it'll still do 0, for raids we are already correctly set up ; with DC / Lugus we are even more... PvE... Don't see any use for more in endless (zerk = 0), or tower. Better penetration why not, but dmg no need

[surreal socket]

Turn economy kek

More.pene sûre we want too

[barren geyser]

We need OctoEdge now for 85% of your total hp

[calm quail]

why not 89%

[dark ridge]

Let RS proc status on every hit of multihit moves and make hexacut S(till mostly useless) tier

[barren geyser]

That be too ideal duh

[astral trail]

Not something in scope of this patch, but I dream of seeing one day, a true shinobi/stealth assassin class, with a skill like shifting to shadows for a turn or two, emerging to critically damage an opponent, ignoring ward & def.
Obviously key stats will be absurd crit & dex, att to a lesser extent, really low def, res & ward. 100% chance to apply debuffs, DoTs, stat effects, ignoring immunity if doing it while in shadow.

RS, assassin & nag belt get us somewhere along the lines, but with still room to evolve in this direction.

[keen obsidian]

Give me a full dot class for that, plaguedoctor/alchemist style. A true assassin class is nice thou

[gilded sedge]

I've made the suggestion a couple times over the years for a true dot class, and it's been very much voted down. Limited discussion on it. Interesting to see someone else propose it. Being a realm I hate dots... But still think the class could be cool

[keen obsidian]

Yea i think there is design space for it, just need to think beyond current max hp% dots

But i guess this is the wrong place for that

[queen wave]

Idk I also like doing this with realm, arisen cursed Fomoria armor, gorgon head with double nagg belt and assassin spec. Then you get so much status effects, it's insane

[elfin hound]

I don’t want to jump to the conclusion that the team isn’t working on some newer skills for realm c classes. But if they aren’t, as we haven’t seen much besides the new turn moving skills and the mixed element skills here. I wanted to air some thoughts I have.

Disclaimer: I want to note here that I mean all due respect and always know the team is hard at work at a million things. All cards on the table, I might just have been too excited about the c.class skill reworks and what I am asking for is out of scope. I also want to note that I don’t want straight up upgrades, but another similar arrow in the skill quiver or harmony with the skills and passives. I’m going to highlight each skill that realm c.classes have.

The c.class skills for Dorado:

Sorti 2: 3% more crit and a slight M2 increase is not worth the very high cost of twice the mana. And doesn’t see much use unless you have a monstrous amount of ALs and the mana cost issue is gone.

Arcane Strikes 4: I’m not sure why this is here. It’s a multi turn non criting element skill with an element that only a slight number of mobs are weak to. All cases casing Realm strikes/warrior pavane with arcane affect on weapon is better use by a large margin. Damage and status cleanse.

Quad edge: Fantastic skill, but feels like a must for any red line class. I think this should be on a t9 class and something that also gives increased/stacking Ward absorption should land here

The c.class skills for Corvus:

Hexcut: Doesn’t line up with the crit idea of the class. Also very much worse dps then GS3, without providing ward turns and being more expensive mana.

Realmshift 2: Super niche skill that is probably picked up by other classes to try to get cool screen shots. Nothing really screaming realm theme or use with large downsides.

Realm Strikes 2: A straight up upgrade to the best skill that realms have. But only because there is less of a miss chance. I was hoping for diversity over upgrades with a capstone skill

TLDR:

Dorado:
Should drop arcane strikes and sorti. Maybe lose crit multiplier and lean into the warrior gameplay of adding additional hits on non crit skills, or lean more into ward play. Leaning into warrior dex idea.

Corvis:
Lean even more into crit chain rng play. On crit have a chance to cleans statuses. Replace all three skills current skills to lean more into crit scaling options. A skill that you would use to start the chain, then a skill you would use to capitalize on the max chain bonus. What ever that may be.

I’m just a guy on the internet and it isn’t my game. All about productive convo. But imo many c.classes have stunning, diverse, competitive skills to what the base class offers. I’m just hoping for another revision/discussion here. I could totally be wrong about the skills to, I’d be happy to be wrong 😂

[stark hound]

I like sortie 2 for hard boss since you’ll be regening mana every floor anyway

Recently tried out arcane strikes 4 against B Polly and was so shocked at how bad it is, even against a weak enemy

[elfin hound]

But is it better then sorti? If you crit you kill with either. And one is just more expensive

if you don’t crit you don’t kill with either. AL depending

[covert turret]

Sortie2's teeny m1 increase can be useful for that little extra damage to help less ascended realms ohko fallen mobs with full farming gear, but it could use a little boost

It never needed more crit. It needs more m1

Return to 15% crit and make m1 2.2 and its worth the cost and a real upgrade

[elfin hound]

Agreed. Although is it a desirable upgrade?

As in, should that skill be expanded to something different? Or is better of the same more desirable from the community

[covert turret]

We'd been asking for sortie2 for a long time, so I'm fine with it staying, it just needs a little boost to be worthwhile

Hexacut, realmshift2, arcane strikes... now these I just don't understand why they exist

[elfin hound]

Isn’t hs3 just a better Sorti?

I haven’t picked it up. But there was some hype about it

[covert turret]

Bloodshift2 could have been cool. More inherent boost and lower chance to fall off

[gilded sedge]

Less crit I spose. Better m1/2 though

[covert turret]

Hs3 I'm pretty sure is the highest melee m1 in the game

Only 5% crit like normal skills

If raising sortie2 m1 isn't an option then maybe it could regen ward

[elfin hound]

This would be really neat. Even if it had the same stats as Sorti 1, but just added ward regen. That would be huge

[covert turret]

The 3 I mentioned above seem more like they didn't have any real ideas and just needed to add some skills

Agreed

[elfin hound]

Agreed. That’s why I was so stoked to see that c.skill changes were going to come through on this patch. I was hoping that the filler would be edited

But now that the general buzz has died down it seems like this is kinda the end for beta changes

[covert turret]

valhallan discussion is still going strong, but you may be right

I think the bigger issues with the realm discussion is everyone went so hard on trying to get an aoe and got told it wasn't happening that most people just kind of lost their momentum

There's room to replace or remove these skills, and I think its still a worthwhile discussion

[dark ridge]

You know, instead of a message like "This works best on Dorado", the move could have an extremely low hit rate and our passive takes care of that.

[elfin hound]

This is a decent solution. My only problem is getting the 3k base dex

[gilded sedge]

2.7k, easy. 3k, takes a little effort

[kind raft]

3319 dex

[visual wing]

Low !

All hail deity

[gritty helm]

Take my dext HoF

[visual wing]

It isn't me ^

[astral trail]

The RS Celestials seems kindda strongly held back with the low mana AND a simultaneous lack of recharge.
Corvus could use the crit recharge since his primary style is crit (still low mana) whereas Dorit, being some kind of middle ground towards warrior, could have a boost to manav albeit without recharge.

The benefit of having a higher DPS is just illusory, as it's strongly diluted by the turns wasted on potting mana. In raids, I'd say 1 out of 4 or 5 turnsv thus ~20% dilution.

[stark hound]

Corvus with recharge would not work, as you’d need to cast bloodshift, breaking your crit chain

[astral trail]

No; the crit chain works as long as the next HIT connects. It currently doesn't break if you're doing something else than attacking. Otherwise you'd find yourself breaking your chain every few hits due to the need of potting.
I tested today against training cactus.

[stark hound]

Potting doesn’t break the chain, but other skills do (bloodshift, warding, etc)

[astral trail]

I this stand corrected; I assumed the same rule as potting applied to non-attack skills.

This kindda strongly limits Corvus' potential.

[elfin hound]

I wonder if NF has a stance on these celestial skill changes

[hard sandal]

Asuming that now we get recharge 1, with a 25% heal, it punishes high al more sincec more hp = more healing & same DOT dmg

For lower als/lvs: this means that if the average hp is around 9k, the average DOT dmg would deal around 999+900+450 = Making the triple zerk dmg 2349, being more than 25% hp, making it technically havemore DOT dmg than healing

However, there's a big problem here. If you're 1 hp, you'll always heal that 25%, and since your hp can't go lower than 1, you will lose 25% of that hp due to berserk only to heal it back up to 25%, leaving you at the middle point (in hp, not stats gained) in resurgance, so bloodshift would still be heavily recommended, sadly breaking your crit chain

[timid plume]

re: skills - I understand they may be lackluster. but, unless they can be shown as a strong balance issue, they won't be a strong priority for this patch

We really wanted to solve the RS issues at a core level

[elfin hound]

Thanks for the answer Odie! I think avidity did that in a big way, and I always appreciate your insight.

I would say that other classes did get a skill or two to diversify their approach to raids/content. And reams notably missed this. But that isn’t a balance issue persay, just a build diversity disparity

But not in the scope is not in the scope. Maybe another time then.

[hard sandal]

Hey Odie, not sure if you'll read this, but what are your thoughts on berserk dmg not being applied to you when you have (near to) 1hp for RS?

With non ht classes, the berserk dmg stays consistent not mattering the current hp you have (for example, for my deity with bers 3 + 1 i'm being dealt 1.5k dmg each turn

With RS, my dot dmg with bers 3 + 1 the DOT dmg is 1431, but when I reach a number lower than that one with my current hp (aka: 1431 or less), the DOT dmg becomes that number -1. This means that the DOT factor of berserk is non existent if you are at 1 hp

If this limit to the dmg cap was removed, DOT dmg would stack even further making RS need to heal more when recieving DOT's like poison or bleed, but using a panacea was already usually the go to, and using cure X still works as intented, so it would "punish" players that try to stay out of resurgance while leaving the ones that are inside resurgance actually bennefit from it somewhat more

[dark ridge]

How about DoT damage and zerk damage get applied in sequence? That way DoTs would have to kill you without the zerk dots

Zerk DoTs could have a different color weeee

[keen obsidian]

high tenacity should really include double/quad edge self damage

[hard sandal]

That would actually be a good idea, even if it's hard to implement, a new type of "ghost DMG" (will put it this way because it doesn't interact with anything) and that keeps being the same every time, but not killing HT users

[dark ridge]

I agree and would be very entertained if it made us immune to Parry death hurhurhur

As a bug of course

[kind raft]

this one would be really good, currently quad edge is there but using it is super cludgy, because most of the time you're waiting for the last standing mob in a dungeon to use it to "kill" you but not really, leaving you at 1 hp for the next floor

ironically, doesn't apply to doritos lol

big rip

[keen obsidian]

the beo channel brought up the potential of a branding opportunity: Safe Double Edge powered by high tenacity from Manscaped

[kind raft]

if it respects HT

[calm quail]

edging doesn't work in parties right? so the 1hp trick is not even an option for me

[dark ridge]

Correct, you will die.

[latent cobalt]

Am I correct in saying that all the skills need a rework for the cestial classes for Dorado and Corvus?

It seems they're all worse (or not an upgrade, as 00bfff says) that what exists or do not synergize with the class.

[gritty helm]

Agree for sortie 2

[calm quail]

not everything is worse, some are just not even an upgrade over the things they're supposed to be an upgrade over

[elfin hound]

@latent cobalt Lack list is what Odie said. Looks like a change isn’t in the cards this pass.

[latent cobalt]

Yeah for sure I saw that. I'm trying to make a case that there is a balance issue. In the sense that these skills will not be used as hoped because of the cost against them. I'm arguing that they are under performing with respect to balance, where other classes seem to be getting great use of their skills.

I want to make the case for new RS who are LV 225 with likely little or no ascensions. Meaning low mana. I can't keeping making points for myself who has enough mana and AL to make it a bit better. I'm seeing new RS struggle to find a place for these new skills, especially if 1 use will deplete more than half the mana, you cant keep using them. They don't have the event gear or proper gear to sustain it either. Especially if I'm investing 200,000 shards, which is a monumental ask for most people in the RS class simply because it's so risky for the class in towers, not to mention how slow it is.

I think I need to use skills from another class to get the best of the RS Corvus/Dorado. I'm making the case that, yes, we do need to reevaluate the skills for balance.

• Hexacut - If hexacut doesn't crit, mana will just deplete and the need for potions, eventually breaking the crit chain (unless potions don't break it.)

If it does crit, would it overshadow realmstrikes? If yes, then what's the point of this skill, just make realmstrikes 2 a bit stronger. It needs a different variable

Could the remaining damage move on to other mobs? Could it grants temp stats? Could it increase crit rate? Could it apply status effects like bleed?

• Realmshift 2 - May break the chain as well, so I don't see it being sustainable unless you use it at the beginning. Lower odds of negative status effects of the RS class would be nice to see, maybe even smarter choices like providing t.buffs that aren't already on.

• Realmstrikes 2 - Doesn't seem to be more powerful at all, just a lower miss chance, doesn't feel like an upgrade. I guess I'd use it if I had the spare shards to take this class after dorado. I think the damage should be much higher

Ara Vesta skills do more damage as they progress with the exception of AV 2 which hits multiple opponents. This is true for nearly all other skill trees.

**• Sortie 2 **- 3% crit chance (numbers taken from previous post) not worth the large mana swing. Doesn't matter with 20 some ALs but it will for those lower levels with no mana/event gear.

• Arcane strikes IV - I literally do not see its use, if it were 2 turns maybe, and if we had some way to apply an arcane sigil (temp or perm). Plus 200 mana with no crit (miss/no crit) means you'd likely use it 1 - 3 times a newer RS.

• Quad Edge - Yeah this is quite good, useful even. Helps move away from the RS/Raider meta.

TLDR; There is a balance issue, the skills are underperforming.

[elfin hound]

Great write up. I put something up similar. I would say that designing end game content around 225s was not the intent for towers. But I do see the argument here.

I will say that the fact that another class has a whole family of skills being nerfed this patch indicates that they received highly desirable skills.

While hexcut, arcane strikes 4 were never going to break the meta.

I’m happy for the love of avidity. But I think the case that everything besides quad edge is absolutely not worth it is a huge balance issue. And should be addressed.

[hard sandal]

Should we get this pinned? I appreciate you also mentioned the lower lv/al RS players ❤️

[latent cobalt]

I was just covering skills. Avidity is definitely a boon.

[covert turret]

Good write up lycus

Hexacut and arcane strikes are just so weird and out of place. You got me thinking when you said maybe it could have temp buffs. If it isn't going to crit, and we know we aren't getting splash damage, this really could have been swordplay 4. Give realm a good non-crit skill that could have been built into to offer a potentially viable alternative to the crit-meta.

[timid plume]

I'm going to have to push back on that, unfortunately. Most, if not all, classlines can make a case for spell/skills troubles, issues, misses, and qualms.

I don't think delaying the patch to make room for an equal swathe of skill list lookovers is in the best interest of everyone. perhaps later on

[glacial scroll]

If this patch is focused on fixing things up and adding new passives (avidity, bestial bonds and hydrus stat passive), a patch mainly focused on spell adjustments and additions would be really cool

[elfin hound]

I think that having one skill (quad edge) be the number 1 used skill due to non spec synergy with resurgence passive in a reasonable number of turns is an outlier for the offered skill list other classes have.

These skills were talked about being less then desirable skills in beta and still is an issue. I’m happy to hear that it is added to the list of out going items. I just think there is room to grow on the skills. Sounds like you heard us Odie so thanks for your statement!

Also, I agree that adding it to this patch is not in anyone’s benefit.

Wow I need to proof read more lol

[kind raft]

anger translator version: listen up you degenerates, get back to your low IQ basement and be happy with avidity and pray to whatever god you do that we listened to you about turn economy. every class has shit skills, check out sow ward, ara vestalalalalalaga, and don't get me started on skadi 2. we're busy dealing with qq babies on augments and ultima, so just chill the f out kthxbai

[viscid solar]

just curious have people cleared a high tower with dorito in beta? this is without a mirrored class.

cause even with avi I am struggling.

[patent comet]

Oracle with 2 40% crit and RS / Sortie2 is easy, no group to get scared of. A bit long and might lose some more time if low gear / AL for medium ward with the need to use WoO, but I enjoy clearing 50f Towers from A to Z with Dorado. Just need to focus first on some mobs in groups such as those that weaken / confuses you or deal massive dmg (ex Acolyte>Mimic>Anubis>Niddhog>Yeti) equip Ymir charm and briny and should be safe

Might as well need a Dragon shield

With the 2 amities there's no need to buff up, and if you can get a good ward amount (100k is decent enough) to endure hits, along with a good dex to help dodge / resist status you're gtg

[mild scroll]

I mean, I clear high towers with Dorado outside of beta on a regular basis. So slightly lower stats and without Avidity.

It largely comes down to strategy and gear quality. You do need to have decent gear, and you can't be afraid to throw AoE out the window and just single target to victory when the going gets tough.

[viscid solar]

Ok thanks, I was just trying to test our dorado with Avi but seems it only procs on sweep for the most part. I haven't seen it proc on single target attacks in awhile. I thought when Beta first came out it also reduced multi turn attacks but maybe the proc chance was lowered. Like I was using arcane strikes and sometimes it went off on turn 2.

[gilded sedge]

Yea it's dorado cata for me tbh, single target all the way. I don't have a good spiked great shield and just purchased chained shield yesterday, so will experiment with that as an AOE option.

[surreal socket]

Well i unlock other class cause they have Clearly better Skill than rs .

Sad

[mild scroll]

Eh, unlocking all classes to use their skills on your favorite class is just kind of how T10 goes.

See:

• Gait of Gunnr
• Guarding Strikes III
• Deity's elementalstrike skills
• Heck, even Divine Bastion comes from the Warrior line and it's Realmshifter's bread and butter.

[gilded sedge]

Agreed. I feel some of the sentiment "celestial classes gave us no new core skills, we have to 'borrow' from other classes" is true, but that doesn't mean that they're untenable.
It would feel good if say horizontal slash 3, or something like that was in one of the RS classes, but isn't world ending.

[elfin hound]

I disagree. I’m not saying we should have CORE skills from celestials. I think half of them should be worth slotting once a year. ATM the only reason to pick up the classes is if you like the passives. Besides quad edge of course.

And arguably rs2

[mild scroll]

Yeah, I don't disagree that the Realm classes should have good skills

But it's not sad to need to pick up skills from other classes too

[elfin hound]

AV2 is a meta defining, build defining skill for heratics. I don’t want something like that for realms (that is game shattering) I do want a skill that adds value (elemental skills that crit are a great example from another class. It is small twist to a classic that adds value)

[latent cobalt]

Glad to have reignited the discussion. I think the NF team is busy with a lot on their plate and understand if this patch doesn't include the above mentioned points. There's like 10 working days left of May. I do hope that these points can be taken into consideration when the time can be put aside to reevaluate the class skills.

Thanks Odie

p.s. Whats a qq baby?

[elfin hound]

I also don’t know what that is @kind raft

[queen wave]

qq = whiner, because the Q.Q face looks like the O.O face with tears 😭

not sure if this is a whoosh for me

[elfin hound]

I believe it. Sound internet logic

[kind raft]

Ya in usage: more pew pew less QQ

[viscid solar]

av2 is pretty fun to use though when it double crits.

[elfin hound]

Im sure it is fun. But that isnt a mutual exclusive comment about how over tuned it is.

[glacial scroll]

Ara vests double cast quadruple crit is the most satisfying thing

[limpid ruin]

Im trying not to feel attacked by all this QQ augment talk 😅

[limpid ruin]

Im real excited about Realm changes, although Im viewing that through the prism of level 250 with 30+ ALs. As some folks have mentioned, Avidity is pure boon, and Im looking forward to seeing that in live action.

Im still on team Turn Economy and think there's scope to help Realms efficiently clear some horde content, but in the meantime I feel like we're getting some cool stuff.

P.s. Prom hands are loaded up, Im out here blasting mobs.

[astral trail]

Was Delay Strikes removed from the patch?
Avidity is mentioned but not DS.

[surreal socket]

T9?

[blissful thistle]

so after all that beta time how do you intensive beta players rate avidity in towers? does it make towers more easy? do you need to zwei-fencer to make the most out of avidity? what would be your feedback for that? ^^

[stark hound]

You don’t want to be using sweep in towers, damage is either too low or forces you to buff up every fight

Avidity will have a small impact on towers, since you’ll still either be using single target builds or chained shield builds, meaning your proc rates won’t be that high

It’ll obviously still make them faster, and Dorado with CS is already a good tower clearer, so it’ll still make things smoother

[gilded sedge]

I'm not quite warrior geared enough to go CS dorado, tried it, not enough dmg, but dorado and single target with extra turns due to avidity will be a big help..

[viscid solar]

I tested towers with Dorado all day yesterday as I have been on the fence in picking it up specially with avi coming out. I decided avi is cool when it procs but it does not have much of an impact since proc on st is so low. as someone mentioned earlier sweep wasn't worth it due to the amount of buffing time required plus in higher floors I think you need cata. granted this is from a newbie rs using beta gear with subpar ward.

[stark hound]

Try using a bulwark, dragon enchanted weapon and a +30% dragon damage amity. Really ups your damage

[gilded sedge]

That would be a big boost..

[stark hound]

I’ve been running CS dorado on live for a long time. The celestial axe makes it even better but a Gilgamesh axe will work as well

[gilded sedge]

Just got cs yesterday, so a bit still before I have shards for an axe. I'll try out gilga axe

[covert turret]

You using raw ward augments or ward regen, or something else?

[stark hound]

4x ward regen and 1 follower act rate. Considering swapping the act rate for raw ward though

[blissful thistle]

so next step after Dorado should rather be Gilga Hercules for the Skills? already got a good Gilgamesh Axe (in case of doing more dmg in towers) and after that a celestial weapon?

[covert turret]

This is what I run in my celestial axe for gilga herc and typically use tamer

Wasn't sure if dorado needed the raw ward augments to boost dps output

[calm quail]

probably depends on how invested you are in rs

super invested ones probably don't need much regen augments

[surreal socket]

Gilga axe prob is Regen Ward too Low for.me so i up a celestial

[visual wing]

I'm enjoying Avidity Dorado with Celestialsweep for Horde. Diffuse Ward makes for unlimited power 🔋

[surreal socket]

What celestial you use with Wich addorns ?

[visual wing]

Axe

Better quality sturdy feet would be nicer for more ward potential

Zwei-Dorado

Essentially like equipping gilgamesh as a weapon ha

[surreal socket]

Interesting

How much DMG output ?

[calm quail]

what does celes sweep mean? cs?

[visual wing]

Celestial Weapon Sweep -

[dapper wasp]

sweep on the two handed sword would be nice

[calm quail]

any closing remarks for us in the avidity waiting room?

[charred echo]

It's fine

[calm quail]

i thought the ping was from odie lol

[astral trail]

Any news about Delay Strikes? I didn't see it mentioned in the final patch notes.

[dapper wasp]

My only gripe with it, is I wish you would know you get an extra turn, at the start of your turn

Like, "Hey btw, you can use a 2 turn skill safetly"

Turn start, you know you got 2 turns to work with, so you can dance around it

I asked for it quite many times, early on, but stoped to not be annoying with something that is insignificant compared to having the extra turns in the first places

[stark hound]

Don’t really see how that’d work with the odds being affected by how many enemies you hit

[wicked crater]

looks like nothing came of the whole boosted avidity chance on cleansing or debuffs

which is really unfortunate. was a great opportunity to open up playstyles/skill use

[dapper wasp]

I though they had removed it being triggered by hits, and just be a personal roll on yourself

[dapper wasp]

yeah, was hoping to see a branching of RS to be either a crit build or a status build

[stark hound]

It’s not turn stealing anymore, but it’s still dependent on how many enemies you hit

[dapper wasp]

it's fine, hopefully they revise it later

[dapper wasp]

good to know, guess sweep is back as big so gauntlet now

[wicked crater]

super unlikely for a revision of that kind to happen, but one can hope

[stark hound]

This is definitely the only thing I’d change without a second thought tbh

[wicked crater]

I just wish it were demo'd in the beta at all

it'd have been interesting to try out the interactions it woulda opened, and could have been pulled if deemed too strong

[dapper wasp]

I wish they provided some kind of Gerkin test scenarios of how that whole feature is suposed to work

Like in all good project management for a new feature, enumerate all the expected scenarios so us, as the clients, can understand and talk about it

[wicked crater]

I don't know if it was discussed internally and decided against, or just looked over. we got a "maybe, i'll consider it" and then nothing after-the-fact iirc

[ebon meteor]

there are new celestial thief skills in beta, but not mentioned in patch note
I am wondering is it going to live version or not in tmr patch

[latent cobalt]

I think because what Avidity does isnt clear and I don't see any staff members explaining it to detail (at least it isn't in the pins). When and how it procs to be precise, more importantly, when it doesn't proc.

It's also obvious that Avidity isn't what the RS community needs or are looking for. But then again, we circle back to lack of info.

I do believe that NF will look at editing Avidity down the road if necessary, as they've proven to do so with other things, however.

[timid plume]

When there is a turn performed by a player with avidity, there is a chance they immediately get another turn, assuming no miss. I feel like that's been well established? if not, here is confirmation 🙂

[latent cobalt]

I meant no offense with my statement, thank you.

[timid plume]

none taken, just offering clarity

imo Avidity targets (either directly or indirectly) a great percentage of recent RS feedback. if there's something big (and actionable) that i've missed, happen to lend an ear

[latent cobalt]

Yup, just as I thought. We know you listen.

Actually, was it covered how it interacts with counter/defend/bastion?

I'm guessing it procs, but is that really useful?

[calm quail]

definitely not useful for counter if you counter before avidity then get another turn to do another action and counter effect is gone on your 2nd turn (via avidity proc) because you won't receive any attack

[visual wing]

Avidity = Hope

It's clutch

Akin to 2nd chance but much cooler and opposite sorta

[kind raft]

It’s offensive 2nd chance rather than defensive 2nd chance

[visual wing]

I can't predict how things will go, but I see it being a fun class tree to experience and potentially main

I feel dirty doing the dungeon class swap

[elfin hound]

I think the number one thing that realms wanted was turn economy, and I see avidity as a nice solution.

I still agree with Major that it would be interesting to have a way to strategically proc it and invent more in the play style. At the end of the day I think it will be a comfortable change for realms!

[wicked crater]

Avidity solves a lot of the horde issues specifically, but Realm's poor turn economy also included statuses hence the wish for boosted avidity on cleanse

[modern marsh]

So does the extra action just perform the same attack/skill/spell?

[wicked crater]

no, you get another turn that you can choose what to do with

[modern marsh]

Oh very cool. Do any stats affect the proc rate? Or is it just the base rate for the class?

[wicked crater]

base rate

15/20% for avidity 2/3 are the chances I've heard

[modern marsh]

Maybe there will be some gear in the future with avidity bonus

[wicked crater]

i hope not 😅

[modern marsh]

Or it can be added to existing gear

[charred echo]

Beo and Deity says wow

Or a gear which enhances the class passives

But that would be game breaking

[modern marsh]

There is already beo gear with pet stat boosts

[wicked crater]

definitely not the same thing

[calm quail]

i think ymir cliff pseudo 2nd chance is the better argument over pet stat gears

[dapper wasp]

Sorry to reply to you, but one thing that was mentionned if the dificulty to use it defencively with abilities like Counter/defend/bastion because we don't get notified that we would gain the extra turn at the start of our turn. But after we do an action.
With the current implementation being a roll done no matter the action you took on the turn, would it be actionable for the roll be done at turn start and get notified before you take your action that you will get a second turn. This would allow us not to use defensive actions or maybe even use this to use a 2 turn strike safetly.

Perfectly understandable if this is not actionable, as this would probably require to store the rolled avidity value to use it at the end of the turn action to decide how the turn end is processed, instead of rolling it on the spot at the moment you need to figure who gets the ball next. Unless that roll result was seeded, which would possibly allow getting that roll result again when needed

(I like complex seed, random systems, as it allows to make replay systems, without needing to store ALL the results of each steps in a fight)

[stark hound]

You can’t have the roll before taking the action when the game doesn’t know what action you’re going to take. Casting sweep or sortie means different % rolls for avidity

[kind raft]

damn prerolling avidity tho would be really interesting as a mechanic down the line, especially in terms of what NF has said re: a more "active combat system"

[gilded sedge]

Only way I see it happening is if it somehow gave you two turns next turn, instead of immediately after

[dapper wasp]

I would much rather avidity be a %chance to gain an extra turn, over it being tied to doing actions

as the "you can get it if you hit, but not if you miss, but you can still get it if you defend or buff, but not if you X"

One is much easier to read and expect then the other

Otherwise, having the prob give you a buff that is consumed at the start of your turn, to give you an extra turn

so you can see, you are getting an extra turn

but that implies delaying 1 turn

[stark hound]

That would also not solve the horde problem though, since hitting multiple enemies wouldn’t be at an increased trigger rate

[dapper wasp]

Avidity is a horde solution?

which reuqires an AoE skill?

[elfin hound]

Just like lugus is a carry solution

Avidity is the same concept, better proc rate, and passive locked

[elfin hound]

Do you have the beta?

[stark hound]

Avidity is by large a horde solution for realm. AoE skills are needed for any class, mages use mages dance as well

[pulsar pasture]

But avidity isn't fixing the lack of AoE skills for realm

Mages dance is a good AoE skill that doesn't cost a lot of mana

Sweep is a decent AoE skill that costs a lot of mana

[astral trail]

Indeed; it's a cool mechanic, but pseudo-aoe, at best. You still need another click to take another action, whereas sweep/mage's dance/lacunus 2 targets/hits all enemies at 1 click.

Chained shield & AV2 is pseudo-aoe.

It's wrong to consider avidity in that category but I can see how it will be a lifesaver in pvp or endless.

[pulsar pasture]

It'll quickly turn into the poor deities and dukes crying about avidity and that delayed strike 3 on Dorado crying

[wicked crater]

realm's probably safe from being scapegoated again due to summoner

nothing to worry about

[calm quail]

nah GS mains will specifically scapegoat us because we have better avidity proc chance against them

[wicked crater]

nah they're too busy at war with the actual good classes

so yknow, Beowulf following that medusa change

[calm quail]

i'm just waiting for hoc to refund my 30 here and 30 deity lol

[wicked crater]

might be waiting a while

[pulsar pasture]

To what?

Yh AFAIK HoC is barely out of the blueprint phase

[calm quail]

to realm

[pulsar pasture]

I'd hoc 1 of them, leave the other for horde

[calm quail]

i'll horde with dorito

[pulsar pasture]

Fair

[calm quail]

i have a build, it's just missing a super specific amity

[pulsar pasture]

Although HoC technically doesn't mean full refund
Right now it'll just return all materials you used for ascensions, but you might get different rolls when re-ascending

[pulsar pasture]

I'd much rather it "force" you to just directly transfer the AL from one class to the other
I mean you already paid the orns/mats, and the 300k tower shards

[blissful thistle]

same would rather see it that way with maybe a monthly cooldown to not abuse that possibility

[hard sandal]

Directly transfering AL's from one class to another is something kinda weird, since you could give 5al's to a al 100 class technically and pay a very little cost, even though I get your point

[blissful thistle]

@hard sandal so yeah just a transfer from 999 AL to a 0 AL. or a restriction to not transfer from a 3 AL to a 999 AL Char xD

[dark ridge]

Thinking about this, it could probably be made so you can "swap" the ascension lines. So if you had an AL20 Heretic and an AL10 Deity, they'd swap, including the material requirements. So now your Deity would require the same mats that your Heretic used to, and vice versa.

[pulsar pasture]

You're still paying 300k tower shards tho, per transfer
And keep in mind there could be an ever increasing cost to a HoC, similarly to how there is to celestial classes
300k for first, 310k for second, etc. (Merely example numbers)

[visual wing]

Well this is awesome 👌

[timid plume]

uhh, bug report please 🙂

[dapper wasp]

Fun fact: beguilled Apo's Refract, only works on the first turn, if you gain additionnal turns, you can safetly wail at him

[calm quail]

sadly

[dapper wasp]

Wierd, I am currently fighting him and when I use defend it told me it reflected and the nafterward i was safe, still am right now

wait nvm

I just got killed by a refract that was casted 2 turns ago wtf

attacked him right after he used his ember attack and got refracted

[calm quail]

so i guess it's only safe if the reflect gets eaten before avidity procs

[dapper wasp]

Seems like it, or worse

[calm quail]

you gotta defend until refract eats a turn

[dapper wasp]

I just got killed by a refract 2 turns ago as my action on the turn he refracted was to drink a potion

[calm quail]

oh boy that sucks

[dapper wasp]

:|

[calm quail]

and that will suck more next month because it's the parry raid

which is pretty much the same

[dapper wasp]

I wish Refract and the like was a buff on them

so you could SEE it

"Oh yeah, it's still up, still will open me a new one, better not touch him!"

I should had taken a screenshot

filed a bug report for the wierd Refract interaction

[dapper wasp]

I can confirm gaining extra turns on misses

[dapper wasp]

This effect is directly to my advantage, but I don't know if it is intended for pvp to prevent players form counterattacking and hoping they will be safe till their next turn

now right after, I did the same thing, but this time, it would had killed me

Thank god I missed!

So bastion III does not always eats the counter

[stark hound]

Refract doesn’t always work, so you’re probably just getting turns where it fails to counter

[dapper wasp]

yes someone replyed with how the skill works

on my bug report

Bloodshift was not moved to 230?

I thought it was one of the changes to make it available sooner

[digital tartan]

it was brought up and approved, I thought

[dapper wasp]

same!

[stark hound]

Don’t think it was ever said by NF they’d move it to 230, unless I’m misremembering

[digital tartan]

idk how to search a thread

[stark hound]

It never got changed in the beta at the very least

[digital tartan]

but he replied back to me asking for it to be lower lol

[dapper wasp]

yup!

#1097566876395118632 message

I think they reacted positively to the idea but never did the change

[digital tartan]

it was in here but message is gone I believe

#1097566876395118632 message nah there it is

[dapper wasp]

There it is indeed

oh wrong reply target

but yeah, at the end of the day it might not had made the cut, but I am a sad 230 RS lol

[digital tartan]

I thought I was going crazy lol

[dapper wasp]

Worked hard to get to 230 for this lol

So my Bias is very there

[pulsar pasture]

I tried for y'all

[dapper wasp]

sad 230 RS noises

[pulsar pasture]

Well tbh, if he moved to bloodshift to 230, he'd have to move something else that seems worthwhile to 235, and currently there is nothing except realmstrikes
But he can't do that because 99,999% of pre 235 would probably burst out in a rampage

So either new skills and then move it to 230 or not at all

[dapper wasp]

It's fine really, them not moving it is not a nerf

Avidity gave me about 20/30% mroe damage in raids before I get one-shotted

[pulsar pasture]

I probably won't even notice it in most raids

[dapper wasp]

early RS you don,t kill bosses in 3 turns

I do 400K when the stars align

[pulsar pasture]

That's low even for early

And yeah, I know, I was an early rs too believe it or not

[latent cobalt]

400k is solid though. I remember my early rs days were barely 300k. But there's better gear now.

And Bloodshift has changed

I think as it stands, I'll pick up chained shield from Gila first before any RS celestial class.

I'll have Avidity, more attack, and a pseudo-aoe.

[dapper wasp]

Right now my issues is the lack of T10 gear

I am still running with T9 gear since I havent got lucky with anything yet

[pulsar pasture]

Well realm definitely had poor-mid choices from the non-event selection

[dapper wasp]

Other then a Normal old crown

[pulsar pasture]

Aside the celestial weapons ofc

[dapper wasp]

I am not wasting my tower keys with my current gear

[pulsar pasture]

Entering a tower as a top geared realmshifter is also wasting a key

[dapper wasp]

Mostly want to have okay gear and not T9 gear

mostly planning to dump my scrolls on the next rift event to get the armor from that

[pulsar pasture]

Yh next rift event is gonna be a while from now

[dapper wasp]

but we are getting off from the goal of this channel

[pulsar pasture]

Dumb your scrolls on surtr/hel too, they've got nice pieces afaik

[gilded sedge]

So definitely struggling a little earlier in towers (feels) than previous. Same gear, but getting 0d out on berserk bear at floor 35, where as before I could keep going. Using sortie/just attack, not something like realm strikes..
Avidity is pretty cool

[hard sandal]

By the way, now Ultimastrikes is 2 turn and "as far as I know" they didn't do the omnispell nerf, so it can be possible to stack a shit ton of aclys into an off-hand and with a celestial in main and try to destroy

[gilded sedge]

Can confirm that for a decently geared realm, al30, running dorado, tower clears are definitely significantly slower now.

Caveat - I haven't tried a new strategy, so will play around with it.

[marsh belfry]

I don't think there was anything changed that would have slowed down towers