Realmshifter changes

[pale estuary]

for sure

but its true we are missing a good m1 for raid

mind you, we often proc def down and stuff but still

[hard sandal]

We often proc def- because of assassin gems xD

[pale estuary]

yeahbut still its still there quite often

1 thing I can see being good tho

[hard sandal]

We're losing at least 4 crit smh

Just to deal dmg

[pale estuary]

is the celestial rs chained with emberstrike, other god strike spell

with the crit chain passive in dungeons

so you always hit elemental weakness and they crit quite often with a 2.1 - 2.5 (?) m1

[hard sandal]

Doesn't godstrike heal you?

[pale estuary]

were getting

huh regen 1 tho

hold on maybe I messed up reading something then

[hard sandal]

Not sure if it's healing based of your DMG or max hp

[pale estuary]

From damage dealt

[charred echo]

We only use them because we don't have any M1 skill for raiding

[pale estuary]

But you can couple it with crit + less hp healed on skill I think

not sure if that works

or bloodshift

eventually the weakness will overshadow the realmstrike

like at floor 1500+

Idk, I can see it happenning with the new crit chain following in dungeons

[hard sandal]

What's the problem of using Horizontal Slash 3?

2.5 M1 and can crit

Is it ward turns?

[pale estuary]

I mean if no weakness no reason not to use it

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah that's right

[pale estuary]

but with a 40crit + extra weakness amity

[hard sandal]

40%crit + extra weakness + 30% dragon dmg

[pale estuary]

that'd be nice

Strikes overrules Dragon align tho but for non resist yeah its prob the best amity right there lol

Idk will need some testing but I can see something being nerfed pretty fast

[hard sandal]

That Amity is surreal to get, but yeah xD

Getting a +40% crit less heal Amity is also hard to get

[pale estuary]

yeah ive settled for 40crit -7% lightning resist for now

[hard sandal]

Best I have is 40% crit 2% ward to mana -50% quests no instruments

[charred echo]

Only usable in later stages, and quite costly to use.

If you are going to use corvus

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah I forgot Corvus doesn't have recharge

[charred echo]

You would need to pot quite often

[hard sandal]

Is there a skill that makes you regain mana?

[charred echo]

25% accessory, 40% crit and 30% dragon

[pale estuary]

Skill not but theres prefix

on amities

[charred echo]

Now that would be my perfect endless amity

[pale estuary]

wdym by 25 amity ?

acessories ?

[hard sandal]

Yeah

[pale estuary]

yeah nvm

ofc oyu mean that

[charred echo]

Yep sorry lol

[pale estuary]

nah honnestly

[patent comet]

Diffuse ward, i'd say

[pale estuary]

no reason to think about something else right now lol

[hard sandal]

F

[pale estuary]

yeah but 2turn

steals ward

oh wait no

1st is 30% no turn

[charred echo]

Avidity passive

[hard sandal]

How about we all go RS mage into Thinblade

[charred echo]

[pale estuary]

but then id rather use a big pot

but honnestly that could work

Avidity works with pots so

might be an option, and to be honnest if you really want to try pushing high floors

[charred echo]

I mean it's a free turn when poting

So you didn't really use a turn

[pale estuary]

the time investment is not really a choice

[hard sandal]

What's the proc chance of avidity?

[charred echo]

I hear 20%

[pale estuary]

20

and 25 for 3

[charred echo]

For every action

[pale estuary]

but it feels like 10 for some

[charred echo]

25 for 3

[hard sandal]

25% for 2?

[pale estuary]

3**

[charred echo]

20 for 2

[pale estuary]

wait

stop

[hard sandal]

Ohhh

[pale estuary]

stop please

[hard sandal]

It's 15,20,25 then?

[patent comet]

Lol Frenzy chat

[stark hound]

The problem with using lungs is the lack of stats

If you go for a full lungs weapon you’re sacrificing attack to get that

[patent comet]

It's absurd for lungs to have +mag only

[hard sandal]

Then can get 100% quickcast with 5 lungs

[charred echo]

Lungs is -attack?

[hard sandal]

And 90% with 4

[patent comet]

I've tried to make my voice heard but failed

[hard sandal]

Both with sequencer obv

[stark hound]

0 attack

[hard sandal]

No

[charred echo]

As always only mages can have fun

[stark hound]

But you’ll end up with like 1.2k attack on your celestial if you fill it with lungs

[charred echo]

Even Prometheus hands need magic too

[pale estuary]

just pair with off hand from arcanic mob

and youll still be ok no ?

less ward but we aint about that ward life

[charred echo]

Lost art is the name

[pale estuary]

thats it

I had lost arc in mind and knew that was wrong.

[patent comet]

Well, not exactly since Prom hands are atk+ only while Here Can use Crit ^^

[pale estuary]

Dual wielding A.Fey B Will be back in the loop

[charred echo]

This is the build you had in mind

[charred echo]

Yeah that's why they both need att and magic

[pale estuary]

heee

I guess kinda yeah

[patent comet]

Long made burried suggestion, sadly

[pale estuary]

HOnnestly people see it as a celestial nerf

but in theory it's a lot of other weapon being Buffed from this nerf

thats the optimistic way to look at it

Realmspike Meta ???

[charred echo]

We need more slots for lost art though

[hard sandal]

Yes, we need high adorn slots

[charred echo]

With 600 more attack

[hard sandal]

Or tons of ashen

[pale estuary]

Honnestly

Realmspike is still very good for a starter

[charred echo]

Yep

But it's only good

[pale estuary]

I GF Mine

[hard sandal]

I skipped Realmspike

[pale estuary]

and it's amazing without bloodshift

[charred echo]

Because everything best is event locked

[hard sandal]

Went from Nagamaki to A.Nagamaki

[pale estuary]

but the sec I get arisen nagamaki

[pale estuary]

realmspike is gone

That could work I guess

[hard sandal]

Gonna up vote it

Wait, it's 2 months ago

[charred echo]

I had one for lost art

[hard sandal]

Wtf

[pale estuary]

xd

[patent comet]

Yeah, long burried ahah

But could use a refresh

[hard sandal]

We all ping spam oddie so they add it (I'M JOKING)

[pale estuary]

I swear he made me do it !

[hard sandal]

Hahahahaha

[pale estuary]

Honnestly the only buff I wanted to see

[pale estuary]

and I think they might still follow and do it

would be a better non spec locked Sweep

[hard sandal]

SMH

[charred echo]

2 negatives were from Heretics

[pale estuary]

Everybuff we got as multiple said made us stronger in the field we were strong in

but the horde is still somewhat lacking

No slot in Lost art right ?

You know what

[charred echo]

Corvus buff will make endless so much better

[pale estuary]

Just move Lost Art to a off hand and lower the specs

Add SLots

[patent comet]

You made me read your message with the music of Every move you make 😅

[pale estuary]

Lol

[charred echo]

That could work

[pale estuary]

4-6 10-GF

Reduced Atk and stuff

Maybe 2% more crit - Few % ward for you know

dual swording and stuff

[patent comet]

Corvus erases the nerf of Prom Hands so yes, even better with a small gain

[charred echo]

The best is avidity+ chain

[pale estuary]

And at give A. Nagamaki a Sweep ability :c

Its a long sword, let us swing it !

[hard sandal]

Has anyone gotten a use for Slice?

[pale estuary]

No crit

finish mob

no mana

kinda deal

[patent comet]

Or Hexacut 🙃

[hard sandal]

We don't talk about things that don't exist

[patent comet]

Or Arcane Strikes 4

[pale estuary]

Arcane strikes 4 had a use

[hard sandal]

Hexacut doesn't exist so it cannot hurt me

[pale estuary]

the last other realm it made you have to go outside

cus you could not do the raids

but they patched it :/

[patent comet]

You are in denial ^^

I can understand that

[wicked crater]

you could tell me hexacut was a starter nyx skill and i'd believe you

[patent comet]

True

[hard sandal]

Yeah just make hexacut T9

And give it at least a celestial skill

NYX has 0 use literally

Hercules even less

[pale estuary]

fair

Where would you go about Beta Suggestion ?

Not the Suggest channel right ?

[patent comet]

Making a thread in Beta-feedback for suggestion would be nice

[hard sandal]

I mean at this point I'd continue in denial and put it in bugs /j

[patent comet]

Yup ahah

Was gonna Say that

But might not be welcomed

[pale estuary]

Fair enough

[patent comet]

Welcame, welcome ?

Meh

[pale estuary]

Welcamed

[patent comet]

Rusty english 😅

[hard sandal]

So... how do we make the suggestion?

let me try this...

JOHN EGBERT, WE SUMMON YOU!!!

[pale estuary]

Ill just make it in suggest and hope people dont lynch me :/

[hard sandal]

Fuck I forgot I have 5% success rate with summoning

[hard sandal]

Yeah

[pale estuary]

That's going to give people nightmares lol

Well deserved

[hard sandal]

Can you also make the Hexacut T9?

[pale estuary]

Sure, Hexa t9 and replace the hexa from celest to a different ?

Like Raiding M1 2.0+ skill ?

[hard sandal]

I was gonna say just replace hexa from corvus to T9 and be done with it

If they're feeling spicy the might add another worthwhile spell to corvus or Hercules

[pale estuary]

I guess corvus is getting a big buff already yeah

[hard sandal]

I wouldn't even count the removal of hexacut a nerf tbh

[pale estuary]

nah just common sense

Done

Back to back screamer in suggestion

I might get banned

Explicit content of pikachu

Hold the mouse over the Pikach youll get what I mean

[pulsar pasture]

it's nothing to worry about

[pale estuary]

yeah Ik im kidding lol

just some eyebrows

[half saddle]

Where am I gonna put my blackened eyes?

[hard sandal]

You can't put there weapon adorns??

[half saddle]

Not on an offhand

[hard sandal]

Shit

[half saddle]

Or my katars would be useful

[hard sandal]

Well, it can be changed into a "similar equivalent"

Weapon but with more off-handy stats and more adornments

[pale estuary]

Slot is negligible anyway :/

[pulsar pasture]

this thread has been toppling every other in activity since the patch dropped, and it's been a little over 1 day and it has over 2,2k messages

[half saddle]

4 slots is negligible? 8% ward and pet act?

[pale estuary]

Imo* doesnt have to be yours, either way I also put an equivalent option if they want

[pulsar pasture]

aren't there off-hands that you can slot adorns in?

[pale estuary]

I wrote that rough but I dont mean it that way

[half saddle]

Many. But armor adorns only

[pulsar pasture]

i see

make it an offhand, but seeing as it's a blade/sword give it weapon adorns

but i'm guessing that'd make it pretty powerful

[hard sandal]

And not consistent off-handy wise

[pulsar pasture]

not..consistent?

[pale estuary]

Youll still get full attack/others from main minus 8% act rate, maths can be done on it after

[hard sandal]

I mean that if all off-hands get armor slots, then just making Lost art have weapon slots would be weird

[pale estuary]

Yeah agreed, but the lost art effect of crit in itself is nice, hence ehy a offhand option with different option of adorn would be nice as well

[keen obsidian]

you guys are popping of with the activity compared to our Beo thread lmao

[pale estuary]

To be fair most of the first messages was about realms light LOL

[pulsar pasture]

all threads combined come to ~6,2k messages

[keen obsidian]

so your changes suck or is it just "i want my free VD back" ?

[pale estuary]

Nah VD is back

[keen obsidian]

besides the adornments, those are global anyways

[pale estuary]

Change is really refreshing look at pinned comments if you want

Turn stealing, we can buff amd then hit you 6ft under before you can ward

[hard sandal]

And all of that with 2 turn spells 66% of the time, but we don't talk about it

[pulsar pasture]

to be clear, we can still hit you 6ft under even if you ward

[keen obsidian]

we beo's (especially the non hydrus kind) got the most undertuned core mechanic you could imagine

[hard sandal]

Ward is nothing to us tbh

defense is, fking low m1 skills

[keen obsidian]

but its getting looked at, so thats nice

[pulsar pasture]

bestial bonds?

[keen obsidian]

yea

[pale estuary]

Only thing we rly missed is a better horde

[wicked crater]

but +35% dexterity

so good

[keen obsidian]

we miss this whole.. damage thing beyond level 228

[pale estuary]

And mby a better tower start for base rs? But turn steal helps

[keen obsidian]

we got a 40% chance, with some investment, to get temp atk up at the beginning of a fight (so one time in a raid)

or some other, similar, stuff depending on your pets "family"

[pale estuary]

Follower families is anice start

To some future tweak

[keen obsidian]

i like the concept of it but they pay off needs to be much bigger

[pale estuary]

Ye

[keen obsidian]

i want to go "i could use this pet for its bestial bonds benefit even thou using cactus would deal 20% more dmg per turn"

anyways, happy you guys enjoy your changes after getting your vision distance back

[pale estuary]

Its 2nd day of beta

[keen obsidian]

we "bottom of the barrel" kinda classes need to stick together

[pale estuary]

Its got time to change

[keen obsidian]

yea for sure

[pale estuary]

One guy was having a fit about vd insultin NF's work

20m after

VD is back

Change to avidity

Like why ? Lol

[keen obsidian]

i had to tell quite some people that NF is like a 6 man team and first drafts of patches might be hit and miss if even companies like valve, riot and blizzard make the same kind of mistakes

[pale estuary]

Yeah I meam

[pulsar pasture]

it's back because it wasn't 1 guy complaining 🙂

[pale estuary]

Ita back cus most of the complains were respectfull

Eitherway complains are good as long as its critic and not insults

[pulsar pasture]

companies like that have stopped caring

[keen obsidian]

there is a place for complaining, but just say "f you, you suck give me vision distance" is a different tone from "hey i think VD is a important part of realm as THE dungeon diver class it currently is, since making it harder to get into dungeons does not feel good"

[pale estuary]

Yeah quite the difference

[pulsar pasture]

NF team is probably lurking right now reading these messages discussing possible changes, if not working on some already

[pale estuary]

F*ck you to kindly freak urself please

Still waiting on my 230 bloodshift change

[keen obsidian]

dont you guys want bloodshift 2

[wicked crater]

heard you loud and clear. we've now moved bloodshift to ascension level 230

thanks for the feedback

[keen obsidian]

i am using it on beo and that thing refuses to stay active

[pale estuary]

Ahahahah

Bloodshift is nice, but at 230 it opens build diversity faster

[young scaffold]

or just like...level up , it takes a minute

[keen obsidian]

it really doesnt for most players

[wicked crater]

I'm still laughing at how I got to 250 in Aethric

[young scaffold]

then they probably don't need the skill that soon

[wicked crater]

I went from 243 to 250 in an hour

two tower runs 😆

[pale estuary]

To each their own

[keen obsidian]

225-235 takes 63b exp, 1-225 takes 8,1b

[pulsar pasture]

odie said bshift at 230 sounds mighty fine, but probably needs to think of some reason to give realm a reason for level progression to 240-245 before bshift drops to 230 first

[pale estuary]

Changing 235 to 230 wont affect you

But might affect others

[keen obsidian]

just because you are a power gamer that rushed to 235 does not mean most of the player base is

[pale estuary]

Thats just some HL mentality people cant break down

[wicked crater]

what is hl

[keen obsidian]

high level

[pale estuary]

High level

[wicked crater]

i see

[pulsar pasture]

bro what? is it different in HoA or was that since changed?

[keen obsidian]

the 250's of this world having a wrong view of the game for the average level 228 andy

[pale estuary]

Again. Changing build diversity earlier is NOT a bad thing however you see it

But I understand people not liking stuff they had to farm (easily) to get

[young scaffold]

or there are so few unlocks on the road from t10 to t11 that giving it all at the start breaks leveling incentive and rewards

[keen obsidian]

bloodshift enables your core gameplay loop? i assume redlining is still a thing after the patch

[wicked crater]

Towers were released early in Aethric and they had some serious reward issues. some fights like the Heretic fight gave a few hundred billion XP, for example

it wasn't patched for a week or two

[young scaffold]

not to mention leveling is so many times faster than it used to be.

[pale estuary]

Again

[keen obsidian]

i think a class should have access to its main gameplay loop early in the tier, not towards the back or even middle

and i am fully unbiased in realm stuff

[pale estuary]

Nvm Odie already mention that bringing 230 is plausible so that ends that conversation

[keen obsidian]

I can just imagine if Beo unlocked our pet(or hybrid) stuff much later in the tier, that would not be fun

[pale estuary]

Talk about bloodshift 1 and 2 so there is still a power boost were made

But just lowering 235 to 230 is what was mentionned at the end.

[wicked crater]

I don't mind bloodshift being 230 or 235, but I currently rather it at 235 otherwise there's no in-class incentives to level up

[young scaffold]

lols at lvl 250 for ultima 2

[keen obsidian]

bloodshift 2 would be a prime example of a "toggle" mechanic

a rebalanced ultima 1 and 2 dropping 5 levels each should not be ruled out if you ask me

[pale estuary]

Seordplay is mana hungry

Pavane is brainless but good

Openning crit is good change

[young scaffold]

what lvl 230 RS has the defenses and ward to be redlining anywhere significant? lol

[pale estuary]

But what we need is better sweep 🙂

No difference to red line at 225 with pavane

Than 230 with blood

[keen obsidian]

this really annoyed me when i picked up Necromancer, its main skill back in the day, summon undead 2, unlocked on the last level of the tier, so you never really used it

your core mechanics cant be "i like to crit", "i heal when i crit" and "i dont want to heal" at the same time when you dont have the tools to utilize them all

[pale estuary]

At 30k ward you redline easily with Charmer anyway for most content other than tower

So theres no difference there

[keen obsidian]

anyways keep popping off, if you are happy with your class come to the beo thread and help us

||we need it||

[pale estuary]

Nerf gazer pvp pls

Lel

[keen obsidian]

equip res and he gets zero'd out

good old t9 times

[pulsar pasture]

it's a big core mechanic, and nothing in the patch notes mentions changing anything about it
avidity will help the buff and damage phase but not our constant need for status immunity,
tho it will help the high risk high damage runs a ton due to a raid having less opertunity to inflict said status effects

[keen obsidian]

i mean, status effect being your weakness is okay

you are the best anti direct hit class due to mystic feathers (in theory)

which obviously sucks as you either negate 100% of the damage or die

[pulsar pasture]

30% chance to get hit

actually, you get hit pretty often

[keen obsidian]

you guys should throw around the idea of getting brewmaster monks "stagger" mechanic from WoW
Damage taken gets split into 2 parts, a direct hit you take to your hp (or ward) and a DoT based of the other part, which is taken over time, which could have some fun interactions with high tenacity

[pale estuary]

Avidity working on any action is a great change. + with smarter ai on the way after the 1st few miasma getting cured they might stop after a few turns

[keen obsidian]

we also suffer from dots as Beo's and we dont even have high tenacity but still want to redline

we got a 1.5x stat boost now for red lining in the beta, before we didnt even gain defensive abilities from redlining, only pet dmg

[pale estuary]

Yeah but its curing effect doesnt negate damage for the full turn

[kind raft]

@keen obsidian just checked out beo, that place is weird, idk what is going on

this place feels safer

[keen obsidian]

you should read up on the beastial bonds mechanic

[kind raft]

i did

seems meh

[keen obsidian]

we got a 40% chance to gain a normal temp buff once per combat

if we pick a specific pet type

so our entire class mechanic is worse than using swordsplay3 once

[kind raft]

wait let's talk there 🙂

[pulsar pasture]

bestial bonds needs to be a little more worked on but it's good core vise

wait no

y'all trying to hijack this thread?

[kind raft]

nope, leaving

this is sanctuary

it's the official home of "AND ONE"

[patent comet]

Beo vs Realms

[hard sandal]

I mean, I'm 228 and I do lol xD

[pulsar pasture]

I'm not sure what that even means...redlining gives you 2x stats which means you're just tankier with it rather than without it

[stark hound]

As long as you have DB you can redline, bloodshift doesn’t really enable it, it enables crit builds

Warriors pavane is more than adequate until you unlock it, I remember being in love with that skill

[pulsar pasture]

And you can't have crit builds if you're healing, and bloodshift prevents that.
It all ties together

[jaunty rain]

has the though of maybe an ability where realmshifter can use shadow clone as an ability? for example realmshifter shadow clone 2: chance to spawn two shadows of oneself to help in battle. these clones just use attack skills.

Amity can affect them, damage boosts can affect them

Basically pseudo summons for realm.

Can help with horde mode lol not as fast as mage dance but they can help.

or this too OP

thoughts?

[hard sandal]

Summoner RS, I think that should be a summoner thing

[jaunty rain]

if broken, or dumb then ill see myself out lol

[jaunty rain]

maybe just one shadow clone then

[hard sandal]

It's still a summon, or a pet-thingy

[jaunty rain]

true

[hard sandal]

You avidity is something similar though

you get a clone of yourself to perform any action that you want

[jaunty rain]

yea you right actually. ill see my way out 🫠

[hard sandal]

It's a nice idea, but with the wrong focus xD

[visual wing]

I like avidity a ton.

Dorado seems to be a genuine horde class now, and I feel like I might actually main this if it stays this decent.

Is dexterity tied into proc chance at all?

[hard sandal]

It isn't

It's base 15/20/25%for each avidity tier

[half saddle]

Where do those numbers come from?

Because I'm seeing less with Avidity II

10-15

[pulsar pasture]

While I'm not sure on the numbers themselves, but "seeing" has nothing to do with the actual values because it's just RNG
You could for example have 6-7 blackened eyes and brynhild and Phoenix might still attack 2 turns in a row and do nothing the 3rd

[half saddle]

I said seeing, not feeling

I'm asking where the 15/20/25 comes from

I have a small sample set, but my number is 69/500, which is 13.8%,so am I unlucky? Or lucky? Is 20% what Odie said? Or is it from a large sample set? (Edit: updated my numbers)

Where does the 15/20/25 come from?

I've seen those numbers a few times now but don't know the source.

[small bay]

Can we get a move call chain strikes for realm as a AOE skill please 🙃

[pulsar pasture]

You should make that a suggestion for the suggestion channel if you feel it's worthwhile

[hard sandal]

I can make an exhausted sample, 1s

[hard sandal]

So far as my testing has gone, Avidity 1 is either 10% or 15%, I almost never went below 10% threshhold (maybe luck(?))

[pulsar pasture]

Be nice if odie dropped the values xd

[winter temple]

that's a big issue of the game for me. too opaque.

[pulsar pasture]

Too many hidden values

[hard sandal]

Oh alright thanks, maybe it was 15/20/25 and got changed to 10/15/20

[pulsar pasture]

Maybe due to being change to be on every action
Maybe a rebalance, and the values will drop further when it gets changed to be on every action

I just hope they don't crash them into the ground to the point where you'd see 1 proc in maybe 3 raids

[young scaffold]

its already changed to every action

[pulsar pasture]

Then that is the reason for the cut

[winter temple]

what if it was, performing a heal/buff/debuff let you play another turn once. this way you could use wisp heal then realmstrikes. That would be helpfull without allowing thief to attack multiple times in a row.

[stark hound]

That wouldn’t solve the horde problem though

[winter temple]

true but current avidity looks more like a semi-solution that brings other problems

[stark hound]

@kind raft might want to add this to the OP to prevent confusion between the initial avidity and the current one

[stark hound]

How so? From my testing, it seems to solve most of the problems that realmshifters were complaining about without being overbearing

[winter temple]

it's still random, if avidity don't proc in horde, you're in trouble. but if it was a sweep buff + melee ara vesta, less chance at trouble.

[stark hound]

That would just make us melee-heretic. This change seems much more interesting and also helps address the buff phase problem

[winter temple]

what i proposed is even better for buff phase

[stark hound]

A splash melee skill would still be interesting to address, at the very least, summoners in pvp, that I can agree with

[half saddle]

If it (Avidity II in my tests) only procs 1 out of every 7 actions, it doesn't really do much for the buff phase.

[stark hound]

Always being able to go after a buff would be insanely overtuned. Free mimics or gunnr in pvp

[half saddle]

More of a gimmick

[winter temple]

Im' sure you can tune it to be 100% in pve and 20% in pvp

[stark hound]

I still don’t see how that’s better than getting procs on every enemy hit with sweep

Double sweep cleans up any floor

And in horde floors there’s a good chance it procs

[half saddle]

Maybe I don't understand what the "RS Horde problem is". I one/two-shot most floors with just Bricriu's redlining as Raider, the only annoyance is spending the time buffing to start. If Avidity helped with that it could be useful. It doesn't help at all with horde if I'm already 1-2 shotting.

[stark hound]

Sweep is already less unstable damage wise than mages dance. So having it be a bit more dependent on avidity makes sense

[stark hound]

But can you do that in full booster gear? Because this change enables that without needing 40+ AL

[half saddle]

I'm doing it with full luck gear

(Annwn/Briny or whichever depending)

So no

BoGs would have me pausing for status effects.

[stark hound]

And there’s the horde problem

[half saddle]

So in that regard, and with the increased procs in hordes, yeah it would help

[stark hound]

Being able to attack twice or attack after cleansing a debuff addresses that

[pulsar pasture]

Hardly

Since it's not guaranteed, just chance

[half saddle]

So 1/7 proc rate helps with orn booster gear in hordes. Gimmicky for anything else?

[pulsar pasture]

And right now nothing is preventing you from getting miasma spammed

[stark hound]

Have you tested it? The chances with sweep are pretty reasonable

[pale estuary]

Guys I know its only rs and all

but had you forgot about Smarter AI on the way ?

[stark hound]

If you’re running a dungeon where miasma is prevalent, smelly shoes are always an option

[pale estuary]

After a few cleanseyou wont get perma miasma'd as well

[pulsar pasture]

If it was purely attack twice in horde then sure
But it isn't, it rolls individually for each enemy, potentially leaving all 5 with their turn or less likely none

[stark hound]

I mean, if we always got to attack twice it would be insanely broken

There needs to be some semblance of balance

[pulsar pasture]

Which is why I said "as of right now"
I also hope it fixes fey yeti using prism wall more than once

[pale estuary]

I wonder if smarter AI will be brought to the beta, that would be nice to test how it feels now

Still missing an AoE spell tho

[stark hound]

Also, for horde you’d most likely want to use dorado, who has a higher chance of resisting status effects altogether

[pale estuary]

Agreed but you still want to make all base class useful to an extent to everything

[stark hound]

Of course, and it’s still more than useful. But dorado is the sidegrade that is most useful at horde imo

[pulsar pasture]

We'll see how bastille will affect that class

[half saddle]

Yeah this is making me want to actually get Dorado. Up until now I haven't found a need

[stark hound]

Try it out in live, the amount of times I get miasma’d and nothing happens is insane

[stark hound]

Hell no, Bastille would be a major nerf to dorado

You’d no longer be able to reach the attack stat to be able to clear horde content

[pulsar pasture]

Notice how i didn't say "if"

[pale estuary]

NF team after reading us talk about horde for Dorado : We have heard your concern, the class shall be refered to as Realm Doritos from now on

[half saddle]

Without high tenacity though, no redline for Dorado right? How are you doing horde, Zwei?

[calm quail]

it has been dorito even before release

[pulsar pasture]

roight 'ere

[stark hound]

Zwei and quad edge

[stark hound]

That was far from confirmation

[marble raft]

quad edge is real nice

for redlining without zerks

[stark hound]

Quad edge is much faster than waiting for zerk to get you to redline

[half saddle]

Nice

[pulsar pasture]

High chances tho.
Might change his mind when talk of it being a nerf instead of a buff gets out
Also look at the replies post odies message

[stark hound]

Reasons why we need to stop asking for Bastille:

• max multiplier is 1.6x, vs Resurgence II’s 2.1x. Dorado’s lower attack stat means you need a higher multiplier to be able to clear horde content
• Bastille starts off at half ward. Dorado can’t hit the same amounts of ward as gilgas, so horde clearing and pvp’ing with chained shield would be nerfed
• quad edge is super viable for redlining, people are just too used to zerks. Quad edge twice and then kill a solo enemy with quad edge (you can guarantee the hit with stun dart) or use double edge twice and you’re set

[stark hound]

It’s a beta environment, they can certainly test it, doesn’t mean it’ll make it to live, especially if feedback is against it

To me, there’s really not much there. I was for it when it was first proposed, but the math and the practical application of it just doesn’t add up. Even Major, who initially proposed it, said he’s no longer for it

[marble raft]

If scared to quad edge a third time on a kill due to a miss, you can also use two double edges instead

[stark hound]

Or stun dart to guarantee the quad edge

[marble raft]

shouldn't kill you unless your health is a multiple of 10

or stun dart, yes.

Beo redlining experience

[stark hound]

Hoping beo gets a fun mechanic they can enjoy as much as I’m enjoying avidity

[marble raft]

The bond mechanic has a lot of potential but it's not quite there yet

[pale estuary]

The family per follower is genius

so much stuff can be added in corelation in the future

[marble raft]

There's also the potential of further separation with new families

slowly making each follower more and more unique

[pale estuary]

It looks weak right now but again easily bufable during beta

[stark hound]

I haven’t been keeping up with it but it’s good to hear there’s potential there

[pale estuary]

Rip bloodshift wasn't mentionned

[charred echo]

Ooh, new skills for celestial classes.

Will it be for RS and NyX?

[covert turret]

Anyone have any portals that can be shared in beta for dungeon access?

[kind raft]

done

[kind raft]

@marble raft please pin this as well 🙂

bastille is a honey trap

[marsh belfry]

Bastille would still be a perfectly functional passive, it is just a different style that leans back more towards utilizing zerks

[rapid bane]

My biggest problem with orna right now is how defenseless RS are. Every other class has a huge advantage. I lose territory daily to GS that I have 35 ascensions on. What does the beta do to address the immense power creep that took place?

[pulsar pasture]

it can't adress everything in one big bite, i think it'd be too much of a system shock right now as well as MUCH more work before it'd go out of beta
like this you get ''phase 1'' which is augment tuning, much needed early summoner fixes and GSH buffs, as well as the long awaited realm and beowulf buffs (althoguh neither got what they needed precisely, but also got something good for both of them)

GS offense right now doesn't seem to be getting a fix, but the defense end got a nerf and a big one
batallions protect less in pvp and perfect shot can ignore them all together

[rapid bane]

I saw that, and of course have plans for a build to take advantage of perfect shot abilities, but it doesn't help on PvP defense imo

[pulsar pasture]

like i just said, yeah

at a later date

but i do hope t8 summoners can't take my areas anymore just because i forgot to change back to deity before i left the game

[stark hound]

Pvp defense is hard against summoners because of BP, which has been nerfed in the beta

I’ve been successful at keeping pretty much every other class at bay except for GS

[rapid bane]

I struggle against one-shot crit classes too which thankfully has been addressed a little. RS just doesn't have the health to handle them (even with a ward turn amity)

[stark hound]

That’s where Dorado comes in imo. Base realms needs a lot of investment and AF gear to be even moderately tanky at pvp defense

Though I don’t think that, thematically, base realm should be a top tier defender anyway

[rapid bane]

I'd argue that PvP should be balanced, and no class should have an overwhelming advantage in offense or defense, but there can be rock paper scissors matchups where certain classes are advantageous against others

[rapid bane]

I have a T11 GS that focuses on summon strength and protect chance and it has far better success in pvp than my RS on defense.. it's so weird

[stark hound]

Agreed. Protect has been addressed if I’m not mistaken though, insanely high protect rates will no longer be possible

[rapid bane]

Good to hear (even if my alt suffers lol)

[rapid bane]

I've spent ages trying to make dorado work, but it's another case of abilities that don't work together.

High dex won't come from warrior gear so either you can be beefy or dodgy and status resistant, but still worse than mystic feather and any class with steadfast.

Resurgence 2 is a bit of a joke with how small of an improvement it is.

All around dorado is a worse version of gilga from all my testing. It has some viability vs gs and in towers with chained shield but that's all I can use it for now

[half coral]

needs ward regen on crit 🙂

[stark hound]

I’ve had the most success with builds focusing on ward and ward regen. However, I’ve also managed to make it work well in horde dungeons. With avidity, it becomes a very good horde clearer

[stark hound]

Any high ward build where regen matters isn’t going to be using crit imo

I can see the point where it’s somewhat similar to gilga atm. I think starting with 100% ward is an advantage it has, and avidity will further help differentiate it from the warrior classes

[rapid bane]

Avidity will definitely be a game changer

[patent comet]

You shall not play !

[elfin hound]

Took me 9 min on normal orna to do a boss horde dungeon with plenty of pots (the orns were really nice tho) Took about 5 min on beta. I still want to Tweek a few things. But that is a competitive edge for farm horde content, and I assume that towers will be similar sped up. I am looking forward to the new skills later in the week to see how they will work 😃

[hard sandal]

What's your gear with this? Are you hitting 100% crit with Oceanus?

Also, any Celestial idea for Dorado sweep?

As I still feel, we have a bit of a lockdown in AOE builds (since we also don't have Pseudo-aoe). So having to rely on non-crit skills for a crit class, is a bit weird

[gilded sedge]

Somewhat, but it has been explained that easy AOE is primarily mage and ours shouldn't be equal in ease

[pale estuary]

How did it go about, like sweep, gain turn sweep, 3rd sweep before 5th monster attacks if lucky kinda deal, cure, attack right away, stun, kill right away on Fallen RS and such ?

[hard sandal]

I don't mean an easy AOE, I just mean a thematically right way to hit more than 1 enemy.

Technically with avidity you "have aoe" compared to pre-beta, but not quite

[fresh aurora]

I mean we have bricua bow but that'd event limted

Where hertic has mage pav/dance the lacunus offhand beo has jinn and fey cactus and gs has jinn and stuff

No one willing uses gigla so

A skill for rs would be nice for aoe

Or at least a sub class

[scenic knoll]

Zwei has Sweep

[digital tartan]

Got arrowstorm too

[fresh aurora]

Both those are both bad

Maybe like a aoe skill for assian

Since there meant to be sneaky and take out multiple targets

[young scaffold]

no thats a terrorist, an assassin focuses on a single target

[stark hound]

Sweep is far from bad, people just need to stop expecting it to be mage’s dance levels of damage

[cold vine]

(or -- you can get the damage up with elemental effects, and then just be ready for ele immunes.)

[stark hound]

This is with no zerks. It’s more than enough to clear t11 horde, while being a much less volatile damage interval

Add avidity to this and horde becomes much smoother

The stat boosts we got will also help, especially since the difficulty change to enemies isn’t going through for now

[hard sandal]

I feel like I have been miss interpreted, I am not saying I want a 10/10 AOE or a 10/10 convinience AOE, but I want one that fits the RS theme, just as CS is for Gilga, or Ara Vesta is for Heretic. Ara Vesta comes in high hopes as an RS player since they got in paper a very fun and diverse pseudo-AOE spells with the sigils mechanic, meanwhile having also crit that fits exactly in the crit class aspect of Heretic

[stark hound]

I’m definitely not opposed to getting a splash skill in the vein of ara vesta

I just think that’s a discussion for when the new skills are revealed, I feel like NF is well aware that we’d like something similar to those skills

[cold ridge]

Once again the problem is located on the orn gear. It is pointless to do horde boss without it

[stark hound]

Im doing horde boss in orn gear on live. ~4min per run, with 1 pot being used

[cold ridge]

Heretic and summoner are the only classes to Horde HB right now?

[stark hound]

My ALs skew those numbers but avidity will definitely make that more viable

[stark hound]

I do it with dorado

[cold ridge]

Single target damage?

[stark hound]

Sweep

DB->Warcry->Elementless->Gunnr->Mimic->Sweep

[hard sandal]

To add to the "all classes have thematic AOE except RS",

Beo has aoe skills/spells coming from pets
Summoners have summons that can hit all enemies, and have multiple summons that can hit one each

Deities, as RS, are the only class that doesn't have one per say. But since it's the all-facet class, it makes sense, since it can technically use whatever he wants (except only 3 of those are "efficient" (Ara Vesta, Mage's Dance & Sweep, being sweep the one that's giving alienification to RS(not sure if it's a real word in english))

[cold ridge]

And the mana issues for horde hard Boss?

[stark hound]

Mana would definitely be an issue for horde hard boss. Perseus legs address that though, they get you 2k mana at ornate level

[cold ridge]

I'm just trying to farm like I can farm with a 0AL summoner on horde hard bosses. I don't mind taking more time to do it, but right now it is very difficult to complete it

[stark hound]

Im currently using Gobannos shoes filled with jewels of the deep to address Medusa

I can upload a video from my runs once I get home

[cold ridge]

Yep, I'm trying to farm for one right now, could be useful in the next patch

[cold ridge]

I think ara deities are strong right now in Horde HB with Mage dance, phoenix and their passive that procs like crazy on AoE

I agree that I also miss some reliable way to multi hit on Realm. Overkill damage on a skill would have been a nice tematic addition but I get that the new passive can help to improve success rates and new builds on horde (but mana will be an issue)

[stark hound]

Harde horde boss should be difficult content in my opinion, so I don’t mind that we have to be smart about our gear to actually make it functional. Im sure more builds will be emerging once acidity releases to live as well

[rapid bane]

My current hard horde boss strategy is to make my gs carry my RS lol

[stark hound]

It strikes me as odd that some classes can do that content with relative ease. Don’t know if that’s something on NF’s radar

[marsh belfry]

Do you just pray you don't get cursed in horde HB using mimics? Or do you gear swap?

[wicked crater]

Do you just pray you don't get cursed in horde HB using mimics?

[marsh belfry]

Touche

[glacial scroll]

Tfw our thematic aoe is a summon that uses the worst spec locked aoe

The issue with aoe is, Mage dance/pavane outshines everything else

And it's not like we don't have a lot of some options, it's just noone will use them if they can just onetap everything with dance

From a balance standpoint I think it's too strong, but the majority of the community will go absolutely crazy if it gets nerfed, seeing as they got so attached to the power level of prom hands and we had them for like a month lol

[hard sandal]

Very true! I forgot about Mage's dance! Thanks for pointing it out!

[hard sandal]

I never said it was good, nor bad, I said it exists, also, with 5 summons you can technically hit up to 5 different enemies with single target dmg each

[glacial scroll]

Yeah and that's cool and would be cool if it's the baseline or even close to it but Mage dance just completely deletes everything

Not to mention it's non elemental and unsplit damage

[hard sandal]

And by effiencitly I mean that it's power it's not taken away by class choce, since CS is 50% effective on other classes, and pets are weaker, same as summons

[glacial scroll]

Ah gotcha

[hard sandal]

I totally agree with you, I have seen it in action and it's brutal, but that should go into it's own chat room imo

[glacial scroll]

Yeah, and I'd say honestly it's not even beta related, since nothing in the beta actually addresses it

[hard sandal]

I mean, technically it is beta related since the skill is in the beta

The overtune of Mage's dance should be specially brought up into a mainly balance patch

[dark ridge]

What if Avidity procced more often on items but locked you out of an Avidity proc for your next turn (when it procs from an item)? More reliable cleansing but you pay some kind of price.

[hard sandal]

You mean trading some of the more "offensive side" of Avidity with pure DPS for some more "pot management" efficiency?

Or just increasing the "pot management" efficiency?

[fresh aurora]

Wth are u using

[glacial scroll]

phoenix

[fresh aurora]

Ngl testing rs rov in beta I have a massive mana issue

[stark hound]

That screenshot isn’t in boosters, it’s just my regular gear + some stuff I was GFIng

[fresh aurora]

Anyone have a mana issue

[elfin hound]

Not with the event raid rn

[stark hound]

In the beta you probably will, since you won’t have access to the adequate gear

[fresh aurora]

I have a mana problem. Regularly as well

Well

Damage anyways

I gain health with rs but to much where i cant do as much damage

And bs is 240 locked

[stark hound]

Go farm some Perseus legs

[hard sandal]

I specially have a mana issue with horde gauntlets, since I use Sweep (if I have zwei)

[fresh aurora]

I'm 230 halfway to 231

[stark hound]

2k mana and decent attack

[fresh aurora]

I stopped farming persus after I got a poor gorgon head for my doom build

[stark hound]

The legs come from the kingdom one

[fresh aurora]

I barely do kingdom

I only do gauntlet and wars mostly

I

I don't need anything from kindom raids rn

[stark hound]

Well, then you’ll probably keep having a mana problem 😅

[fresh aurora]

Im also still struggling to understand party share amity

I wanna get me 40 crit effect

[elfin hound]

I’m going to keep testing. But arrow storm with a trialing bow with pet action was nice

[hard sandal]

Arrowstorm is actually quite nice despite being split-dmg, my problem with it it's still the lack of theme that should be made for RS (I know it's a T5/T7 spec and it shouldn't be made for specifically for RS)

[fresh aurora]

Does rs really have a subclass like tamer is for beo cata for gigla and deity chrono magi and seq for hertic deity and gs

Besides like raider for the berserk and charmer for mana what else

I really only use assain for doom for tower

[hard sandal]

Assassin for statuses(?)

[elfin hound]

Sorry, I read above and I know you want a splash damage skill. I was trying to talk about the mana issue with sweep

[fresh aurora]

I mean most status are easiy counterd

Not like we can get miasma 2 with the toxic

Besides. Doom people/raids are immune to most

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah, I just changed the topic myself, don't say sorry about it, I was just saying something else from a different topic xD

[fresh aurora]

Status effects

We don't really have a main sub class to use

Benefactor benefits gs

[hard sandal]

Ironically, we are the best class for DOT's meanwhile one of our biggest weakness are DOT's

[fresh aurora]

Seq chrono for heretic/deity

Cat

Cata for gigla

Tamer for beo

And I'd argue that bard is for gs and party play

[queen wave]

Raider maybe

[fresh aurora]

Raider is only for zerk

[hard sandal]

RS specs be like:

[fresh aurora]

Maybe something that can help us with crits or something

[hard sandal]

Also Maji for Heretic

[queen wave]

Zerk. Much attack and less HP wich means 1hp reach faster

[elfin hound]

Personally, comming from gilga to rs. I find it nice there is versatility with the different specs

[queen wave]

But i dont play raider

[fresh aurora]

Also for rs corv it would be nice to have a display of how many times you've hit a crit Inna row and the damage bonus

Doesn't raider give us less def

[hard sandal]

Buff it then by making it deal dmg post heal, otherwise we can't even use it efficiently without always having to upkeep bloodshift

[fresh aurora]

Yea

[hard sandal]

Reminder that bloodshift is not counted as a buff, so it's not able to be kept for longer with amity

[fresh aurora]

Maybe give us our own class like gs Maybe like passive mana regen

Or maybe a positive effect last longer

[queen wave]

Bloodshift at level 230

[fresh aurora]

No jts not

It's 240

Or 235

[queen wave]

It should be

235 but its late

[fresh aurora]

Yea it would help with early rs

Didn't assain used to have a counter

[queen wave]

I never tried assassin. Is it good ?

[fresh aurora]

I only use ir for tower titans

[queen wave]

Is this counter skill useful

[fresh aurora]

Fhs gorgon head offhand or Connally wand

2 nag belts

And sometimes forming Armour

[queen wave]

Ok thanks

[fresh aurora]

@queen wave I Remember it used to have a counter passive

Idk where it went tho

[hard sandal]

Only for deep endless or titans

[fresh aurora]

For prom I use beo assain

One gargoyle fhs Connally wand 2 nag

Eos I use sleep

I haven't bothered to the other ones

I can probaly just lacuna them

[queen wave]

Im too early to try deep things

[young scaffold]

https://giphy.com/gifs/archerfx-malory-archerfxx-phrasing-5ROlkuRjBdWKRGTYTy

[pulsar pasture]

Jaden there is using a little bit of a risky method
best would be to go deity, best ward gear, FHS+2x nag belts, assassin spec
start with WoO, golems, spam sortie till doom applies, then use DB2 till titan is dead

there's little to no need for the fomorian DoT boosting gear because doom already does ~2,5 million/turn

[hard sandal]

Yeah, with doom there's no need for offensive measures, survivality should be the play

[verbal frigate]

So what's the verdict? What'd you guys gain and are you happy with the changes?

[stark hound]

The new class passive helps with the turn economy problem in pretty much every content and enables us to run horde more consistently without being overbearing. The stat buffs are helpful, especially for horde. I’m honestly very happy with the changes

[hard sandal]

I agree with Bordo that Avidity is cool and enables us to run horde, even if there's still some missing pieces

[kind raft]

would like multi hit skill that's not tied to spec

[pulsar pasture]

It does help, in some areas more than others, but doesn't fix the horde issue

[kind raft]

but we'll see what "later this week" brings

[noble shadow]

does avidity work in pvp?

if yes im quadruple happy

[pulsar pasture]

Should

[hard sandal]

I'll pray that it's also a thematically good skill

[stark hound]

Major posted some suggestions that I liked a lot as well

[pulsar pasture]

I'd enjoy seeing a skill that, when inflicting more damage than enemy HP it carries over to the next enemy
E.x. you hit an enemy with 5000hp for 10000 damage, then the 2nd enemy in order will receive 5000 damage, and so on and so forth

[stark hound]

Splash damage from a kill would definitely be a great way to implement an ara vesta like skill to realm imo

[small bay]

I try suggesting it but I can’t type anything in suggestions. The exact thing you saying now, and calm it chain strike or something way cooler then that 😅

[mild barn]

💀 Display Kill 💀
probably a bit too brutal for the game's aesthetic 😆

[pulsar pasture]

You can't write in there, same as anyone else.
You use a command

[kind raft]

There are so many hit extra mechanics that could be interesting:

• on hit
• on crit
• on death blow
• overkill splash
• charged up mini aoe
• proc based stance
• triggered stance
  .. etc etc etc

[fresh aurora]

Do uk how long a 50 tower would take idek if doom can hit on multihit spells

[thick sand]

Gilgamage extremely disagrees

[fresh aurora]

Gigla Is the least interesting class

[pulsar pasture]

Gilga is good for towers with chained shield

[pulsar pasture]

Depends on you and what you're running to climb. I'd say on average it takes 1,5-2 hours

[thick sand]

If your lucky enough to get a good af banjo, it aoes pretty well

[pulsar pasture]

And doom should be able to proc on anything that does damage

[fresh aurora]

I literally don't feel like upgrading warrior Armour

I would have gotten Amadans wand

But forming bosses was a pain

Formia

I couldn't farm Amagansett wand bc if forming bosses in chaos

[dark ridge]

My hope was that one of the RS classes would get counter attack after dodging an attack. Not guaranteed ofc.

[charred echo]

Ooh, it can be helpful against second chance opponents in endless

[dark ridge]

Also this is very minor but I wish that Dorado blocked instead of dodging. They've got a shield afterall

[calm quail]

so as low chance as the gilga counter passive?

[elfin hound]

Or a parry

[patent comet]

They also have a quiver and yet no Weapon Proficiency for bows 😅

[dark ridge]

Yeah considering the bow is the defacto dex weapon hurts my soul.

[elfin hound]

Ursa similarly has a one handed weapon with a two handed synergy

Sorry for the ping

[patent comet]

His sword can be seen as a greatsword, but I agree it looks small 🙃

[patent comet]

This little +5% would help with the loss of power they got

[tropic jewel]

Can anyone explain why the saboteur passive is gone specifically for nyx? I get that avidity needed to be balanced out, but this is a major loss if you ask me, and Nyx wasn’t exactly on top of the performance metrics

[elfin hound]

The possibility of gaining another turn is better then a bit more damage to ward.

[pale estuary]

Yeah and that passive was 100% uselss in kingdom raid which starts getting your main xp source if you can spam them

[elfin hound]

Even in PvP, 10% of the time you get to take another turn.

[pale estuary]

Yeah that too

Mind you you could oneshot true ward sometimes and quite often but the 10% is way better IMO still

[elfin hound]

Definitely 👍

[pulsar pasture]

If you have problems with enemy ward, I believe the assassin spec helps

[hard sandal]

It wouldn't hurt for nyx to still get avidity in Hercules or something to accommodate the fact that it's entirely useless

Specially since it has 0 new skills

I would add avidity to Hercules since at least it would gain a "passive healing" passive since it would make you earn a free heal each with 10%

And In Corvus I'd trade Life syphon 2 for 1 and gain avidity 1

I am thinking of making a "N6x changes discussions", should I make or should we just talk about it here?

[dark ridge]

Elsewhere

I think the Nyx celestials have as much... meh factor as the RS ones

In live specifically

[glacial scroll]

Maybe nyx could get a thread when the new skills get added because it presumably will get some

[elfin hound]

I’m not sure how complicated this solution is. But I wanted to float another revision on avidity:

If the intent of the skill is to clean up mobs on their last legs I think there should be an increased proc rate if the enemy is under x% of HP. Right now it can feel better to not one shot things in horde to get a better chance to roll for a avidity proc. But, when it doesn’t work you are just the victim of a 1v4.

If the intent of the mechanic is to work on turn economy the above solution checks for the “fail” state and adds a chance to recover the turn. This increasing the efficiency without increasing base power.

IMO I think avidity would be better utilized if it could be anticipated a little more accurately or be invested into. Be that investment in gear, status of the mob, or skills. In its current state I think the passive is just a static chance that has no way to lean into maximizing it (unlike the other passives realm has resurgence and MF).

Maybe I am jumping the gun and some skills that add a stance to better take advantage of the opponent’s turn will be introduced with some downside. But I wanted to say that I love the idea and would like to see more play/investment in the idea 😃

[tropic jewel]

Saboteur had a good chance to single and double temp def down. This is what I’m going to miss the most in raids, not the ward part

[elfin hound]

Fair. But slotting assassins does the same and odds are crit builds aren’t that useful so slots used in this way are the most efficient use

[tropic jewel]

Well I’m just throwing this out there, since Nyx is not getting talked a lot and to me this is not a small thing. We’ll see what happens after the beta

I wouldn’t mind saboteur going away and the temp def down being added somewhere else

[fallow nimbus]

Why not just roll as part of your turn and show extra turns up in the top right turn order?

Can plan your moves with the knowledge, similarly has more plannable counterplay in PvP / vs fallen realmshifter

The odds don't change in PvP, and pve wise balance of 1 vs 5 rolls tuning to motivate you into lower damage sounds counter intuitive, so just rolling based off mobs at floor start seems practical - rather than what's alive when you have your turn

[hard sandal]

So, is there a feedback list that contains all that has been talked about? And what do we want?

[young scaffold]

mostly whats pinned?

[hard sandal]

I feel that there is a lot more than what's pinned that has been talked about

[pulsar pasture]

Mainly talk about how to implement the pinned

But AoE still needs a fix, which I'm hoping "new skills" will fix
Even if it's behind a celestial class it's fine

It'd actually be better than spec locking it

[hard sandal]

Yeah, RS still needs a thematic AOE, even if it's similar to CC or Ara vesta

[winter temple]

technically, stealing a turn can be considered an AOE as you can attack twice (like an ara vesta would do).

[pulsar pasture]

No, it isn't
It doesn't steal the turn from all enemies, rolls for all separately, can still leave 4/5 hitting you

[hard sandal]

Wasn't it changed?

[pulsar pasture]

Not to my knowledge

[hard sandal]

Since it's no longer a "steal a turn", it's a "go again"

Gonna test it, 1s

[pulsar pasture]

It's "go again" because it was changed to roll on debuffs, item use, buffs, any action basically, which is no longer really stealing a turn

[hard sandal]

It's a "go again" skipping all enemies when it procs

Either way, if that is a the AOE mechanic that they leave use, I might aswell use deity to use a non-thematic AOE spell

[winter temple]

ooh so avidity is more a "you don't play" than "I play instead of you" in horde

[hard sandal]

If it were a "go again" only when hitting, then it would count for me more as an AOE part, but it's not, thankfully so

[winter temple]

maybe it's the same as deity passive. chance at "go again" each turn, with aoe attack counting as multiple turns

[hard sandal]

What deity passive?

[winter temple]

DC

it has a chance to give you DC every turn, but hitting multiple enemies count as multiple turns

[hard sandal]

Oh, I didn't knew that

[winter temple]

it's the same for lot of things, lugus is the same for exemple

that's why deity ara/ursa are considered good in horde

but not so good outisde horde

[hard sandal]

For the testing I've done, the proc chance keeps being at ~10-20% using sweep

[winter temple]

is it 20% also outside horde ?

[hard sandal]

Yeah, about that

[winter temple]

it's different then. don't what's the trigger.

[hard sandal]

I think the trigger is any action, since waiting can also proc the 10-20%

[winter temple]

it even work on multi turns ? damn it looks like RS will be able to use ultimastrikes

[hard sandal]

I mean, with a 20% chance we can also get DOT'd if we don't have immunity gear

So the problem might stay the same

And also, bloodshift can fall off (if you're using it)

[young scaffold]

the thing is it won't proc off the defeated enemies in a horde

[hard sandal]

So it stacks then? It wasn't like that for me at least

[young scaffold]

still, it gives a noticable amount of free tries to "clean up" a floor.

hmm i would need to test it in something harder to be sure about it stacking, hadn't had that effect. not sure.

testing now

[hard sandal]

I mean, if only form the floors 16-22 you need to double sweep, if it doesn't stack it means that you get around 1.2 extra turns, that's all

It's better than 0? Yes, but very underwhelming tbh

counting that dorado has the 3rd version of that passive

[winter temple]

dorado turning into the horde RS

[hard sandal]

Towers is already horde, so yeah, Dorado is Horde RS

It does stack

So with dorado it should be 100% with 5 enemies if it's 20%

[young scaffold]

does stack, but thats if the enemies don't die

[hard sandal]

I think that if 1 enemy dies you have 0% chance of proc

[winter temple]

which is fair, if not it would be perma second turn in horde

[hard sandal]

So essentially if double sweep from 16-22, you would get in the best scenario 7 extra sweeps

In the worst scenario you would get 0

An average of 4.5 then, better than the 1.2 from before

[young scaffold]

its aboslutely fair, and makes sense, but it makes a huge difference in calculations on how much benefit the passive actually gives

[hard sandal]

With base RS the extra turns would be... 75% per floor x 7 floors... average 5.25 extra turns in the best double scenario

0 in worst. Meaning 2.6 extra turns average

Literally, the game will advise you to be either top tier strong to be sure to one-shot all the enemies with sweep, or be weak enough to be dealing with 50%+ to all enemies

[winter temple]

that's not how math work lmao

[hard sandal]

Trying to overcome that turn cap would be devastating

[hard sandal]

Base RS is ~15%. x5 enemies it's 75%

[winter temple]

your average is 5.25, no need to half it

[hard sandal]

If you kill someone is 0

So I need to half it

[winter temple]

that would mean that you only kill half of the floor every time

[hard sandal]

That would mean I kill at least 1 enemy while dealing at least 50% dmg to everyone else

If I encounter a low-hp/low-def enemy next to 5 medium-hp/-medium-def enemy, and I kill the easy one with sweep, the chance is 0, meanwhile I have the other mobs ready for another sweep

Also, If I kill an early floor and 1 survives because of miss or smth, I get 0% chance of avidity, meaning I have to also double sweep there waiting for the enemy turn 100% of the time

So:

• For easy horde floors, It doesn't matter whether you have Avidity or not

• For Medium dificulty floors, If you manage to kill an enemy it doesn't matter whether you have avidity or not

• For Harder dificulty floors, once you start killing some enemies it doesn't matter whether you have avidity or not

That means that having a passive meant to "fix" the turn economy issue having it not work when you most need it to, and does nothing (beneficial or not) when you don't need it, seems somewhat like a mess

[winter temple]

cmon, RS is not that bad that it needs permanent double turns...

[hard sandal]

In addition to what I said here, here's the explanaiton:

• Easy horde mostly requires only 1 turn with sweep, but if you fail to kill 1 enemy due to dodge, It will NEVER proc.

• Medium dificulty have some enemies that are easy with some other mobs might need 2 sweeps, meaning that if you kill the easy ones, Avidity will NEVER proc.

• For Harder difficulty floors, meaning where you have to use more turns and sweeps, everything would so smoothly except when you start killing mobs, where maybe it's an exhaustive fight and you might have quite a trouble since it's the last turns of a fight, but when you kill the first enemy, most likely followed by the second and so on, Avidity will never proc

[hard sandal]

I'm not saying that it needs double turns.

I'm just saying that having something inconsistent whenever you need it to be consistent as a fix as something might not be the best solution

[winter temple]

idk, as a deity, being inconsistent is part of my dna

[hard sandal]

One of the better start points would be in the fundation of the main problem.

1. RS doesn't have a thematic AOE that can be used, like Ara Vesta or CC, or Pets, or multiple summons.

2. Rs has low max mana to use reliably the non-thematic AOE skills (AKA: Sweep, costing 140 mana)

3. You're not rewarded just by playing, Deity might get casted DC or stats up, Heretic will gain dmg since it keeps losing mana, Gilga will gain stats with ward regen, Beo can get buffs casted by it's pet or just free dmg, summoner can just perma-summon or just cast defensive options for profit

4. Even if we play the intended way, we're losing turns because of bloodshift, having to lose 1 turn to cast a buff that might last 1 turn only, and that it's not counted as a buff so it can't be increased with amities, only for that buff to give us 5% crit chance and making us not being able to heal

5. Playing the intended way, we have to use almost our equipment slots into immunity gear, so we have to miss on big stats just so we can fight something

6. We don't have variations to play our intended way, since we have low spell slots making it impossible to miss on immunity gear to use healing spells, which btw will also make us lose a turn.

I can keep going, but I think that is enough for now

And I'm not even touching the topic of berserks btw

[hard sandal]

Deity at least can survive the inconsistency part beacuse of the high defensive stats that it has, being able to also get x2 those stats by design with DC

[winter temple]

dc proc are so random, most deities play with ashen phoenix, temp buffs drop quite fast, doardo let you have those high def stats with warrior gear.

[hard sandal]

At least the temp buffs can be increased with amities, meanwhile the Dc drop is 33-20% (aka: 3-5 turns), it might be increased to a lot more

[winter temple]

what prevent a RS to play with phoenix and tbuff amity ? nothing.

[hard sandal]

there's nothing preventing it, but the t.buff amity would only increase that buff, since it doesn't work for bloodshift, the "most important" part of our kit if you remove berserks

Meanwhile deity has Dc by design, Rs has to choose to go that pathline, erasing more optimal paths and going into a "non-intended" playstyle

[winter temple]

so basically you want to be good in horde without optimizing your character for hordes. this is not happening.

[hard sandal]

We would still lose turns of DC by casting bloodshift

[hard sandal]

There are many different problems with RS that doesn't keep to only horde, so i'm not wanting to optmize it to horde since bloodshift even even used there

Since sweep, the non-thematical AOE spell we're "forced to use" (since other AOE spells usable for RS are almost-non existent) doesn't benefit in the slightest by the use of bloodshift

[stark hound]

Avidity not rolling on enemies you kill is a bit weird. Also, if the chance for avidity to proc against one enemy is 20%, that doesn’t make it a guaranteed proc against 5 enemies in horde. If avidity is an independent roll per enemy, than rolling 5 times would mean a 1-(4/5)^5 chance of it proc’ing, which is a 67% chance. Furthermore, floors don’t always have that many enemies, solo horde boss for example regularly has floors with 2-3 enemies

That being said, my experience in horde has been that you either kill every enemy or you don’t kill most of them. This is because sweep has much less variation than mage’s dance/pavane, and bosses are usually around the same HP Values. Which means avidity not going off on dead enemies isn’t a huge problem there.

It might make it a bit more inconsistent for dungeons like UWs, where you have high hp mobs like the portals mixed with easy to kill mobs though

[stark hound]

This is not how the math works from my testing, it’s independent rolls, not straight addition

[hard sandal]

Well, yeah, but it is near that, it was just an example with some basic numbers

with 5 enemies the proc rate is near 100% though, I have also hit 2 adivity procs at the same time btw (not sure if it's a bug)

[stark hound]

It’s a 76% proc rate if you consider a 25% chance, not the same as 100% 😅

I can see why they made it not proc on dead enemies though, a 76% chance to go again is pretty high

[hard sandal]

Btw, it's not "not proc on dead enemies", it's "if any enemy dies, don't proc any avidity"

[hard sandal]

This would be even less efficient then than what I said xD

I didn't thought the difference would be that big though, even knowing that my math is wrong

[stark hound]

Is this how it’s currently implemented? I don’t really have enemies surviving until floor 17+ so I may have missed this

[hard sandal]

It's like things have turned out for me in 5 normal gauntlets with no buffs and a bad weapon has worked out for me, maybe I'm just insanely unluky

[stark hound]

I’ll try to find a couple dungeons in the beta while I’m out today and test it out with a lower attack gear

If it’s working like that it’s definitely less useful and probably unintended

[hard sandal]

I can't know if it's intended or not, I can simply state my investigation and my problems with it. Not sure if it's a bug or not, so it shouldn't go in but reports

[stark hound]

Just killed 2 mobs with sweep and gained another turn so that doesn’t seem to be the case

[kind raft]

Yeah it procs on kills

[young scaffold]

what, where does it show that

[kind raft]

? See bordos screen shot

That’s a horde floor with more than 1 enemy

Nico said it doesn’t proc if an enemy dies

That’s not the case

[stark hound]

Top right corner

[winter temple]

it may very well work like everything else (once per turn, horde being multiple turn). I don't see Odie just create another version of per turn more complex and just for avidity somehow.

[kind raft]

You never get to go 3 times from 1 action if that’s what people are talking about

Its chance to go ONCE again

Not roll for many chances to go again and then stack the result

[winter temple]

no, they're talking about dead mob giving you a turn or not.

[kind raft]

Dead ones do

Unless you clear the floor

Well to be fair

[winter temple]

it's like lugus then ?

[kind raft]

Can’t tell if dead ones do or if the hit on the remaining alive one did

Make sense?

But killing something definitely doesn’t NOT proc

[winter temple]

so it does help in horde quite a lot

[kind raft]

2 enemies on floor
You sweep
Hits both
A dies
B is alive
Avidity procs

What we don’t know is:

• was proc just from hit on B?
• or did the fatal blow on A also add to proc chance to the hit on B?

Let’s just use 10% additive as easy math

In my scenario we don’t know if that sweep is 10% just B or 20% A and B

[winter temple]

that's where I think it's just like lugus. The change from first version was so fast it must be based on some existing code IMO.

[kind raft]

But it’s not 0% just because you killed A

[winter temple]

exception being, you can't get free turn of there's no more turn

[kind raft]

Right

Also your pet goes if it can before you go again

So if proc it’s you pet you

Not you you pet mob

[winter temple]

hopefully pet don't act twice ? (double chance at DC you say ? )

[kind raft]

No

Proc is on you

Well

Wait lemme check lol

Don’t remember if pet went first time

I don’t think so

Yeah it’s just you, pet, you

[winter temple]

to be able to test, you'd need a near 100% chance pet tho

use tamer

[kind raft]

I just just keep doing the same and see if it ever occurs

If not then it’s 0, if there’s a chance it’ll show up eventually

I’m dw full blackened on bird

So decent act

[winter temple]

Apocalypse is upon us

[kind raft]

Oh cool

[hard sandal]

Lol, I'm super unlucky then, Do you have the proc chance of 3 enemies or 1?

[winter temple]

It may very well be chance from all enemies as it may work like lugus.

[dark ridge]

I think Odie said it works just like that

[winter temple]

avidity 1/2/3 is 10/20/30 %

[dark ridge]

Probably in this thread lol

[hard sandal]

it's more like 10/15/20%

or around that

[winter temple]

definitely looks like a very good passive, and not only in horde.

it may not be enough to steam roll horde boss but overall very good (especially with phoenix).

[kind raft]

it gets real close tho

i also can't steam roll horde boss in caster with full boosters, there are floors where you need to go 2-3 turns

[winter temple]

sweep still need little help imo

[kind raft]

yeah wouldn't mind a 25% dmg buff there

you still need to have 190%+ endgame gear + 30 or so asc to clear horde floors

(except deity / mammon)

which seems ok from a balance perspective

you can't clear zerks

[winter temple]

that's when avidity saves the day :p or not

[kind raft]

yeah exactly

would like more people to test their sweep dmg tho

with the following conditions: redline, atk 1/2, gunnr, dc

in full boosters

[winter temple]

in beta gear for me so can't really tell

[kind raft]

wdym

oh, no boosters

coz not mirrored

[winter temple]

yes

[kind raft]

request one newb

[winter temple]

i was late to the mirror party

[kind raft]

make sure you have what you need in hand and not in keep

[stark hound]

Yea, avidity is looking pretty solid

[winter temple]

i never used the keep

[stark hound]

Realm won’t be mages dance level of clearing hordes, nor should it be imo. This current iteration feels very good and is a fresh idea

[winter temple]

did it 18h ago nerd

[hard sandal]

Being me who is unlucky, avidity is cool, but it still doesn't fix the problems with RS (not in specifically horde)

[kind raft]

good job egg omelet

[kind raft]

why not? elaborate

also what does "fix" mean

[winter temple]

don't forget it also work everywhere, being a straight up dmg buff of 20% with avidity 3 (and giving more pet act at that)

[hard sandal]

This are some of my own perspectives

[winter temple]

also being able to get another turn with a miss

[hard sandal]

Sure, avidity makes those problems "go away 10/15/20%" of the time

[hard sandal]

With a 15% base miss chance skill why not

[half saddle]

I'd trade it for Steadfast 2,Second Change, or The Deity (auto DC)

You want it? 😂

[winter temple]

so basically you want to play deity

[half saddle]

Yuck no

[winter temple]

ok but we also take high tenacity and the innate 2.5 crit damage

[kind raft]

orion are you realm main? or realm enthusiast?

[half saddle]

He's a Deity

[hard sandal]

I think he's neither

[winter temple]

I played RS for the first 10 levels of t10, then, switched to deity because abyss threatens me

[kind raft]

scared of bonks i see

[winter temple]

in the end I playing my deity like a RS with RS gear

[kind raft]

sooooo no avidity, got it

🙂

[winter temple]

wdym ? I can't give an opinion because I'm not labeled as certified realmshifter ?

[half saddle]

Informed opinions are great, but have you tested the changes with your live RS gear? Lots of the stuff I've read here from people are hypotheticals and don't match reality.

[kind raft]

no totally welcome

[winter temple]

as I said, i'm not mirrored so I tested with beta gear

[kind raft]

all good no ill / shade meant bud

just wondering coz you're active in a lot of threads (like i am)

[winter temple]

you're talking about hypothetical and matching reality just after mentioning 'the deity'

[winter temple]

because I like theorycraft

[kind raft]

ditto

[half saddle]

Proc rate on The Deity?

[winter temple]

low enough for deities to take phoenix in horde anyway

and with ursa/ara it's even worse as the proc can be a pitiful single up

[half saddle]

Really no numbers are on that? I'm surprised.

[winter temple]

but jokes aside, I'd say it's about roughly the same as double lugus

[gloomy mirage]

I'd expect the deity chances to be similar / lower? Most of the item based att1/mag1 type procs I've looked at are 2-3% as well

[wicked crater]

I think it was something like 3/5/10

for each of the effects

[half saddle]

So Avidity gives extra chances for items like that to proc when it triggers?

Chance of a chance? 😂

[winter temple]

this, and also your pet play again too

[stark hound]

Extra turn = extra chance, but also an extra chance for it to wear off

[half saddle]

Outside of horde it's like 1/7 (13-14%) chance from my testing of Avidity 2

[half saddle]

Ah damn lol

[stark hound]

Avidity chances seem to be in line with other class passive %, with horde helping it proc more frequently. I don’t really have a problem with the current %, they seem appropriate

[winter temple]

realmshifters burning the candle by both ends

[hard sandal]

Yeah, checks out on the 15% we've been saying, it must be around that

[half saddle]

Yeah 15% not op in single combat

In horde it's a nice bonus

[winter temple]

15% chance can still be considered 15% more damage pet turn in single target

[half saddle]

Only if you do nothing but attack

"up to 15%" maybe

Reality is less

[winter temple]

not really, if you spend your free turn not attacking, you would have spent a normal turn not attacking also.

[half saddle]

"Up to 15%"

[winter temple]

wdym up to 15%

[half saddle]

DC is what, 100%? 😁

[hard sandal]

Technically the DPS side is up to 15%

Since you have to click the skill again