Realmshifter changes

[fresh aurora]

Wait corb didn't get avidy

[kind raft]

i think we're ready

[wicked crater]

wait no it does have avidity 2

so idk what you mean

[patent comet]

Av2 for corvus

[hard sandal]

Oh yeah I'm blind, mb

xD

[fresh aurora]

Is it possible to steal a turn everytime

[hard sandal]

I was checking the normal Orna instead of the beta smh

[wicked crater]

crit chain and avidity have no special interaction. avidity is literally another turn, so everything that applies for a regular turn applies again

[noble shadow]

how does av work with hordes?

[unreal hazel]

Av2 works too rarely

[young scaffold]

i had streaks of 3 steals, someone showed 4 steals in a row

[wicked crater]

chance per mob

[fresh aurora]

I might as well just use time mage corv

[wicked crater]

if you hit 5, you have a chance to steal each of their turns

afaict you can steal 0-5 and then just.. go 5 times

[kind raft]

sweep x5

[wicked crater]

but i may be wrong

^

[kind raft]

yay for faster animations

[fresh aurora]

Raids are easy

[noble shadow]

ah, so if u kill a mob u gain nothing = realm didnt get faster in towers at all, right?

[marsh belfry]

Not currently

[hard sandal]

oh wait you can steal after you've stealed

[kind raft]

MAJOR POST DORITO THOUGHTS PLZ

[wicked crater]

legit just sweep sweep sweep

[fresh aurora]

Steal the turn

[wicked crater]

aw, rip. thanks for the correction

[hard sandal]

oh god

[wicked crater]

is it steals any number of enemy turns, but you can only go once more?

[marsh belfry]

If there are 5 enemies, you only steal 4, the 1 remaining enemy acts and then the game goes as normal

You don't get extra turns on horde currently

[wicked crater]

I need to write them, but there's a conversation happening

[fresh aurora]

Breh

[kind raft]

that was my subtle cue to stop talking and start writing you dogclown

[wicked crater]

I don't just have essays loaded in my pocket on standby 😭

[young scaffold]

stop saying dorito, its making me really hungry.

[fresh aurora]

Hm

[marsh belfry]

Which is why "go again" is massively different than "steal" currently

[noble shadow]

ehm, i was really hoping for some speed up in towers. it seems like we got nothing

[wicked crater]

dorito

[fresh aurora]

Oh yea the new time mage thing

[kind raft]

well, dorito may get bastille

[wicked crater]

this is a speed up as long as the thing you're struggling with is dealing damage quickly

[fresh aurora]

Wonder how that and avid goes

[young scaffold]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-gif-lasers-3o85xoi6nNqJQJ95Qc

[wicked crater]

if you need more turns when dealing damage, then it's a speedup

[kind raft]

also go again is sick for towers

you can chained shield twice

[wicked crater]

but Odie also said he'd change the effect to "go again" on doing anything

[kind raft]

sometimes

[wicked crater]

so buffing, items, debuffing, cleanisng, damage

[noble shadow]

its not a speed up when u kill enemies one by one anyway

[wicked crater]

that's a speed up regardless of how you look at it

[verbal frigate]

I think everyone wanted some extra speed.

[fresh aurora]

Beta shloud be allowed to every boss and raid

[noble shadow]

because u kill the enemy = nothing to steal = proceed as normal

[wicked crater]

yep, that's the more specific thing I should have said. you are right

[pulsar pasture]

potioning, i said it'd also make the buffing phase easier

[fresh aurora]

Or at least every item ING ornate gf

[wicked crater]

potions = items

😛

[pulsar pasture]

same thing

[wicked crater]

all potions are items but not all items are potions

but yeah, semantics

[wicked crater]

yeah, this is exciting. it's part of my thoughts around it

pros and cons to that

also, small note. anyone think Heretic Corvus should get avidity? I kinda think it should

Avidity 1, maybe

[fresh aurora]

Imagine if avid scales with forsight

Would make sense kinda

[wicked crater]

if any stat it should be dex

[hard sandal]

Yeah, I also feel that way, avidity 1 would work

[wicked crater]

and ok fine, i'll draft a thing about my thoughts on dorito

[fresh aurora]

Fuck heretic

[hard sandal]

damn

[fresh aurora]

U go Ara

[wicked crater]

I need to catch up with older messages first, though. it's partially thoughts and partially a response to earlier stuff

[fresh aurora]

We need new buffs

[noble shadow]

this would be actually cool, to finally invest into dex with meaningful returns

[fresh aurora]

Still sad abt prom neerf

[hard sandal]

Don't worry Major, you can just go full in, there are only 2 points of view: the wrong one, and yours

[kind raft]

if we all shut up and don't talk to you major will you write shit

[pulsar pasture]

it's a fellow thief. so yes.

[fresh aurora]

Eh

[dark ridge]

If Here Corvus needs help I'd prefer it went a different way than just using an RS passive, if possible.

[wicked crater]

could i request a pin on this?

[marble raft]

no

[elfin hound]

*another passive

[marble raft]

though it feels silly to pin that after pinning odie's confirmation that he is changing the passive

[dark ridge]

You are already pinned

[pulsar pasture]

typo on arcanic's avidity
''in battle, you ocassionally steal an (supposed be ''a'') target's turn after performing a damaging skill against them''

[dark ridge]

The SLA on typos is "Heretic Ara still has typos" aka maybe never

[stark hound]

The changes, as currently proposed by Odie, definitely feel very good. I don’t think we’ll be as strong as caster AoE but that was never the point, we have other things to excel at and a pretty cool new passive that is unlike anything else in the game. Looking forward to testing it in the beta

Dorado getting avidity3 seems appropriate and honestly makes it seem like a pretty good class atm, depending on what the proc % is

Regarding Dorado, I think starting at 100% ward is actually an interesting twist on “warrior” characters, as it subverts the chained shield / spiked shield nerf from not being a gilga on turn 1, which is pretty good for towers

[marsh belfry]

If I could get any change I wanted on Dorado I would have a passive that encourages 100% HP, and sets a maximum ward absorb below 100% as a result. I just dont forsee us getting a brand new stat passive created for us, and I strongly dislike using resurgence on Dorado right now

[mild barn]

Yeah getting Bastille and having a non-redline thief makes me all kinds of happy

[young scaffold]

sounds like you want vampire mode, cirt bloodsuck all thier hp to become stronger.

[wicked crater]

alr, dorito thoughts..:

same as on implementation, I think it's a good concept. I think the execution is iffy, but the idea of a "tankier thief, but still feels like a thief" is good. the issues I see with dorito are:

• identity is muddled. uses warrior gear, uses ward, but scales off dex? those are pretty mutually exclusive
• dexterity as a stat is overvalued on items. dexterity tends to be present in small amounts, or it's at a huge cost/replacement (eg. gandring/badbs having dex instead of ward relative to war/mage equivalents)
• why does it have less base dex than even base realm? its the dex oriented one 😅 (relates to identity)
• realm's base stats don't do it justice. obviously it's mostly the base ward (improved a little this patch ~4%), but also the base def/res. celestials attach a multiplier to their base class, and realm has awful base def/res

Dorito is set up to be popular/fun/appealing, and it's unique in that it favours building dexterity where Realm otherwise doesn't care to (MF overrides dex dodge, Realm hits accuracy cap in PvE by default ~always). It's just a bit confusing, and a little unfocused. Dorito having the highest stage of Avidity is cool, and I think it fits the "even more dextrous rogue" theme it has going for it. finagles those extra turns more easily, which is cool.

specific problem points i can see (not all need to be changed):

• dorito's base HP//base ward is a bit too low. 12.6k HP for RS/D is eh compared to Beo/H's 15.6k, Deity's 12.7k, even Heretic's 11.1k. Dorito trades a lot of damage (HT) for survivability, so feels like that base ward should be there
• dorito's base dex is questionable. it should at minimum be the same as base Realm, but probably should be higher than RS and RS/C. there's a cool decision between more dex (thus more dorado passive) or more HP/ward (thus your more usual tanking)
• dorito has low base def/res at 443 (base lv. 250). for reference gilga's at 674, beo's at 337def/1113res, deity's at 1058def/res.
• dorado's "recover from a status effect" is ~useless. it's a realmshifter that wants to redline, so not getting statused is the goal, not to be statused for less. 1 turn is often lethal (yes, i know you don't need 1hp, but this is still a point of consideration). it could be outright removed, improved in effect or replaced.
• having warrior gear, and needing to build dex is confusing, and sort of clashes. as more gear with both ward and dex exists, this will be better
• (if this is outdated then ignore) having realm's light still is weird. dorito shouldn't be the torch class lol

potential solutions (not all should be implemented):

• increase base HP and/or dex. HP can potentially stay as is, but it just makes sense to have a more respectable base stats. the idea of "starts with lower dex so you have to build dex and it rewards you for it" is kinda cool, but I don't think that's a common thought with players as much as the lower dex is simply confusing
• dorito absolutely should have a higher def/res multiplier. atm dorito has a 1.2x def/res mult placing it at 443 def/res (lv 250 base). a multiplier of 2.0x would give it 738def/res which makes more sense as a bulkier class (even if much of that bulk is meant to be from dodges)
• consider replacing dorado dex "recover from statuses quicker"'s effect with something else. contenders:
  -- "negative status have less impact on you": multiplier to stun chance, DoT damage
  -- "positive statuses last longer": same as Heretic/Corvus passive/amity, but requires dex investment
  -- "avidity's chance to go again" (!! best one imo): remove avidity III, but allow avidity to be built into through dex for Dorado
  -- "increased absorption with ward skills": allows easier redlining and (with investment) 100% abs via WoO. effect cap should be below 18% as 0.18x abs gets WoO to 100% abs
• add more thief/war gear with dex. now that Gilga/U has thief access there's a lot more meaning to make warrior/ward-y items with good dex. some of this exists already (eg. riftrogue) but they're not common, and tend to have low dex

sorry, this one's a lot more unfocused. it's also long as fuck 😅

[hard sandal]

Keep going, we let you cook

[young scaffold]

this is related i swear: how many celestial RS use Raider spec? is RS main class to use Raider? maybe fixing the broken -health (i.e ward) vs +atk of the spec could help balance..

[kind raft]

i'd add to this, ability to use gilga skills without penalty, tbh. that'd also give it more identity

[wicked crater]

getting there

[kind raft]

e.g. chained shield without penalty, or less of a penalty

[wicked crater]

that's what i'm typing up rn

[stark hound]

So, as someone who’s been maining Dorado pretty much since it released, I have some comments on some of those topics:

• the first one is the base dex, that definitely has always shocked me when compared to base realm, you end up using 1 piece of high dex gear just to match base realm’s dex.
• base hp/ward definitely could use a boost but, like gilga, dorado scales very well with ALs and good gear
• avidity 3 honestly makes sense to me and I don’t think we should really be changing that until we get to test it thoroughly
• Dex is definitely a problematic stat for the reasons major pointed out, we either need some base changes there or new warrior gear that includes dex. I agree that dex is massively overvalued in the gear we currently have
• I no longer think we should have gilga skills with no penalty. I’d only like to see that happen if we got Bastille. Otherwise, starting at 100% ward already offsets much of that penalty

Regarding the debuffs lasting less, I agree it’s not useful since the whole point is to not get statused at all

[nocturne scaffold]

If we are doing bastille stats not lasting long makes sense

[stark hound]

I honestly believe Bastille would be a nerf to Dorado and just make it too similar to Gilga

In a vacuum it might make sense, but when put in practice the numbers just don’t add up

[kind raft]

i agree with bordo

[stark hound]

Starting at 50% ward will destroy dorado’s current tower speed and the 1.6x boost will severely nerf its horde capabilities when compared to resurgence’s 2.1x

[elfin hound]

It would nuke the class for sure

If safety is the goal I would rather have resurgence 2 max at 20% remaining Hp. Two quads and you are in passive

[kind raft]

this is the way, leaves 20% hp as a safety for status

[elfin hound]

Plus removes immunity gear dependents

[kind raft]

and you know we aren't going to being berserks

[noble shadow]

Ward = dex on thiefs gear is laughed at even in the oldest shabbash'es videos and they didnt do anything about it for years.

[stark hound]

If your hp is and odd number, you can always 2x quad and 2x double edge if safety is what you want

[queen wave]

Hi. Im a New realmshifter. Is realmspikes a really Bad weapon ?

[elfin hound]

But then one miasma

[wicked crater]

dorito thoughts v2: resurgence v bastille

resurgence is okay, but remembering the pre-HT days for Realm I can't help but dislike it. it doesn't feel good to be locked out of berserks, and jumping up/down in health for variable passive is also mediocre. damage inconsistency, particularly with Orna's damage calc (theshold-y) variable att/mag stats can very often feel bad.

bastille is also okay, but it loses a lot of the thief flavouring. i'm really fond of the idea of enabling full powered SS1/2/3, Chained Shield for RS/Dorado (which I'm assuming Bastille would do). I think SS on Dorado is a great option to allow the class to build into. dorito doesn't have gilga/deity's ward, but it has a great attack stat, so it's a fun different thing. the main concern is Bastille's lower stat bonus -- 1.5x/1.6x for bastille I/II respectively versus 2.0x/2.1x on resurgence I/II respectively. a lower stat passive like this can very easily force SS1/2 usage to have enough piercing (see: Gilga's att stat)

potentially a hybrid version of the two would be ideal? considerations:

• +stats on low ward
• +stats on high ward
• +stats (frontloaded, similar to beo/h) on dex (dex -> att/def/res)
• +stats on low hp
• +stats on high hp

any combination of these effects would be cool. i think the most unique/thematic/interesting ones are full hp, low ward since they're unique. least unique/thematic would be frontloaded stats on dex, since it's sorta weird, and I also think it's 100% okay for Beo/H to be "the" frontloaded monster.

Something like.. (all at once this time):

• remove Resurgence II (+stats on low hp)
• remove Dorado's Guard effect (autoward, ward regen)
• add Dorado's Guard (or different name, main idea is the effect): You become more powerful as your HP and Ward decrease in battle. Additionally, ward recovers each turn. vague/rough number ideas are +50% ward (max at 0 ward, begins at 100% ward), +50% HP (max at 0 HP, begins at 100% HP), 3% ward regen (same as current), 5 autoward (same as current), removes SS/DW penalties as if its a Gilga

the main idea here would be can use SS/CS, can have a high stat boost (but hard to do with SS, easier with non-SS), hybridised ward/hp passive for thematic/gameplay reasons. unsure about stat numbers, but you get the idea. some total higher than bastille I/II

[elfin hound]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/905399210575294484 this is probably a better channel right now. But a simple answer is that it isn’t great.

[wicked crater]

jesus fuck that's so much

I'm so sorry y'all lol

[stark hound]

I honestly don’t mind having to cleans one debuff if av3 is a thing, when you start cleaning up floors that won’t matter as much

[queen wave]

Im sorry

[wicked crater]

the reason i'm not a fan of this as much is really just because of Odie's original design idea with Resurgence (though that may have changed). back during the pre-HT days, and the discussions that eventually led to High Tenacity, this idea (max resurgence at higher than 1hp. usually 20%HP) came up frequently.

Odie said he didn't fancy it as much because the idea behind Resurgence wasn't a "kinda dead" thing, it was a "very close to death" thing. granted, that's the same reasoning for it scaling from 50% (instead of 100%), but I think for Dorito specifically scaling from 100% is okay

[elfin hound]

All good 😃 No one is upset

[hard sandal]

Don't be sorry! The more information the better! As long as it's relevant (and this is), it's more than welcome and needed!!! 😄

[stark hound]

Dorado can already use CS/SS though. People have been using it to great effect in towers especially

[wicked crater]

all this to say: I agree with and I'm a fan of Resurgence's design philosophy being "almost fuckin' dead" rather than just "damaged"

[stark hound]

I truly don’t like any solution that makes us “gilga clones”, I feel like dorado has a really cool identity imo. Av3 and eventually having resurgence 2 start scaling from 100% are the changes I think would help it most

[wicked crater]

yeah, but I mean without the 0.5x penalty. I know it has that T1 power that Gilga doesn't have (att stat and full ward), but that's mostly a product of ascensions boosting your ward to heavens and beyond, rather than Dorito itself being good with those effects by base

in my opinion, anyways

[wicked crater]

I agree, I don't want it to clone Gilga, hence why I prefer bastille inversed of "+stats as ward fades" instead of bastille's "+stats as ward recovers"

[stark hound]

Isn’t that what happens to gilga players as well? I’ve tried using my gear with my low AL gilga and it’s terrible, it always struck me as a AL dependent class

[wicked crater]

Dorito essentially uses it ward as a literal extension of its health. Ward as it is already mostly functions as health extended, but Dorito with +stats on low ward and low hp makes that official

[stark hound]

In practical terms, how would one use that passive for the current content? If we need to lower our ward to get the stat boosts that dorado desperately needs, then we’ll be leaving the tankier thief in a position of risk

[wicked crater]

it's primarily gear dependent for Gilga, but (at least for me) even with top notch gear my SS/CS damage just isn't enough for Realm

[wicked crater]

You can spend your own ward through SS (most practical venture for the "tanky" ones), or you can build less ward, or you can force yourself to take more damage (eg. bear's def--/res--)

[stark hound]

But how does the proposed change fix that? Stats wise, it looks like you’ll still have to set up to do damage, while people who can use it currently will also be forced to setup now

[elfin hound]

Interesting I don’t think I knew that. I know that intention and identity can change for the good of the game (See crit SS convos)

The issue with the red line theme, as I am sure you know. Is that it doesn’t compete with blue line, while still being offered as an alternative. Changing identity for competitive ability has happened before and I think it is ok to consider now in this case. But it is always up to the devs to decide 😃

Thanks for sharing you knowledge and putting forward well thought out concepts with potential solutions.

[stark hound]

That sounds very anti-turn economy, especially in content like towers where other classes are already attacking turn 1 for fast clears

[wicked crater]

the big change from current would be scaling beginning from 100%, rather than 50%. I'd originally had the numbers at 50% ward, 80% HP, but I think that might be overboard.

(genuine question) how often do you stick to 1HP/status lethal territory with Dorito for the stat boost? and also in what content?

[stark hound]

I do it all the time in horde boss dungeons

[wicked crater]

50ward/80hp woud retain similarities/options to current Dorito, but my primary concern is it being too overboard

[pulsar pasture]

how many? less people use raider, more use berserker, at least i believe that is the case
zerk 3 is a consumable 🙂

[stark hound]

In towers I do CS turn 1

This change would make both these scenarios worse imo

[wicked crater]

okay, so it'd be a stat loss in horde boss, but an improvement in Towers (unless you're getting hit to sub-50% hp immediately)

it's an improvement in Towers because you'd lose ward, which is a stat boost

[kind raft]

so you'd start off at 100% ward in your suggestion right major?

[stark hound]

In towers I’m already killing 1-2 enemies per turn with CS, that would just force ward management to be able to consistently CS enemies

[kind raft]

so the first CS is the weakest

[wicked crater]

to be clear here, I'm not intending to push my specific idea, but I want to get something across that isn't just resurgence and isn't just bastille, since I think the class could be a lot more interesting with a hybridised passive

[wicked crater]

yeah

[kind raft]

say the gilga penalty is removed, first CS hits for 100k

[wicked crater]

the first CS is the weakest for that version of Dorito, but it's the same strength as current dorito

[kind raft]

second CS would hit for 115k or so

etc. etc. etc.

[wicked crater]

actually wait, yeah it'd be twice as good as current Dorito since no SS/CS penalty

[wicked crater]

no, because you'd be losing ward

[stark hound]

Hybridised passives in games like this usually end up feeling subpar in my opinion, despite usually looking cool in concept

[wicked crater]

your att would increase (+pierce), but your ward would decrease (-post-pierce)

[kind raft]

against a typical enemy is that more or less damage

[stark hound]

So, tower cleanup would be the same/slightly faster and horde would be weaker? I truly don’t think that’s what we should be aiming for

[wicked crater]

I think they can work well as long as there's sufficient integration or diversity and I genuinely think there is thanks to SS/CS existing (and it'd be good if there were more ward spending skills)

[wicked crater]

yeah, hence my original numbers having been 50ward/80hp, but i was unsure about strength. what do you think about that?

[stark hound]

Playing to lower ward feels bad, especially in a world where gilgas can use SS3 at no ward cost. We’d just have more risk for less reward in this scenario

[kind raft]

i'm gonna hold out for this and hoping there's just.. ara strikes II 🙂

**Still to come this week

[PvE/PvP] Additional skills for some celestial classes **

[stark hound]

I think it could work for towers but horde dungeons would still be left worse. As someone who has been trying to make realm horde a thing, I truly dislike that, sorry

[wicked crater]

fwiw Dorado could also have the same effect of SS3 no ward cost. that's done by accumulating as much ward regen/turn as you're spending

[wicked crater]

no, that's fair. no need to apologise. this is why i'm talking about this stuff at all. discussions are 👌

[stark hound]

That’s my current build. But that would be antagonist to a lower ward = more stats passive

[wicked crater]

i'm understanding more stuff, and getting a better idea of goals/problems

[stark hound]

Fwiw, I think dorado horde will be in a very good spot after the new passive changes. People just need to realize that there’s more ways to redline than zerks

[kind raft]

which one? just the "go again" mechanic?

[stark hound]

Which is why I never agreed with HT being proposed for Dorado, the 2.1x boost is good enough without zerks

[kind raft]

(replied to wrong post)

[stark hound]

Ye

[wicked crater]

so the idea behind 50/80 would be that you can still have almost as much as current dorito, but it'd potentially promote skill choice diversity. a mix of SS and non-SS skills could be good as you gain/lose ward

[stark hound]

I understand that, and it’s a fair sentiment. I just don’t like what Bastille means for horde

[kind raft]

i also don't like that we'd be straight up using gilga skills tbh

[wicked crater]

I agree with that latter bit, I even talked about it in #👋│general recently because someone was saying HT-less redlining is mediocre. You'd say the main thing to focus on solving/improving re:Dorado is horde content?

[kind raft]

like ward / gilga is such a strong identity

if there are just straight up other skills (fingers crossed)

so we're not recycling existing skills / passives, that'd be much better

[wicked crater]

both Avidity and any Dorito changes should (imo) include new spells alongside it. avidity with cleanse/debuff interplay should have more cleanse/debuff spells introduced. likewise Dorito hybrid bastille should have more ways to spend ward

[kind raft]

like dorito being NOT HT/zerk based is GREAT

[wicked crater]

I don't think either idea really works well without new skills

Realm got absolutely fucked regarding celestial skills. It really needs new stuff and improvements to the existing stuff

[kind raft]

yeah you almost need a new skill, then i think the focus around what the passive can be is easier to solve tbh

[dark ridge]

I think Corvus and Dorado need new original skills regardless.

[wicked crater]

yep

[stark hound]

Im not sure dorado horde needs much improving after avidity3 tbh, but I’ll only be able to comment on that after I test it out. Resurgence starting at 100% would be a welcome change there I believe but I’m not sure much else will be needed

[elfin hound]

Sorti 2 using ward and giving ward turns would be interesting

[kind raft]

right now we're trying to solve what the passive should be... but that'll always just be a mutiplier, we need the core mechanic to be good, i.e. new skills

[dark ridge]

I always felt like Sortie should regen ward to make up for it being weaker

[wicked crater]

so I'm thinking about changes to them with an expanded design space for skills in mind (eg. more commonly useful cleanses/debuffs with new Avidity, or more ward-spending skills with bastile-ish Dorito)

[dark ridge]

Do any ward regen skills crit?

[stark hound]

If anything, it might need some cleanse related skill

[elfin hound]

No

[wicked crater]

hmm, okay. you really don't mind not having berserks in most/all content?

[kind raft]

spend ward to cleanse status -> bam

[swift bobcat]

Warrior gear and dex passive feels weird interaction. I'd like to see base dex increased and more interaction with current passive. It has nice concept, but haven't found it beneficial with current scaling. Resurgence could start from 100%, but it's not necessary.

[dark ridge]

I think it scales great with dex

[wicked crater]

I'm just trying to get a better idea of Dorito gameplay since I don't have nearly enough experience myself to speak on it with full authority. I'm approaching it from a long-time base Realm and general Orna perspective

[kind raft]

i think for dorito, no ZERK-BASED redline is almost a core tenet of the celestial class

[stark hound]

Honestly no. I’ve raided with Dorito, done towers and horde, and pvp’d with it. If anything, it’s a relief not feeling like I need to always be swapping to raider or bringing my chimera along

[wicked crater]

what does this mean

[kind raft]

sorry, fixed

[wicked crater]

"core tenet"

?

[kind raft]

realized i missed the important part, no ZERK based

major idea

major pillar of what the class stands for

[wicked crater]

right, okay

[stark hound]

Quad edge is such a massive boon

[wicked crater]

tenet is a new word to me 😅

quad edge is the only skill I think is worth a damn on the Realm celestials

RS2 and Sortie2 are okay, but they're absolutely not "i'm getting this celestial for that skill" caliber

eg. CS, AV, Ultimastrikes, Godstrike/seal3s

[dark ridge]

I have the perfect video of me using dorito to clear a tower in a very representative not gimmicky build

[wicked crater]

fwiw strike3s critting is huge for realm imo

and also, obviously, Ultimastrikes in 2 turns

[kind raft]

all of which doesn't solve horde turn economy sad noises

[wicked crater]

that's poised to just clown on titans

ye, i'm banking on avidity changes for that

banking hard on avidity changes for that

[stark hound]

I’ve been playing Dorado 95% of the time pretty much since it released. It’s honestly such a breath of fresh air after playing base realm for so long. I truly wouldn’t like to see such a massive change (resurgence-> bastille) at the same time we’re already getting a new core mechanic that will boost us

[elfin hound]

What if the dex passive let go of curing aliments, and gained increased ward protection as dex goes up. So dex build, Woo and an amnity could give 100% ward protection.

[wicked crater]

I really think that weighting is going to be necessary to change much re: turn economy

without boosted weighting for cleanse/debuffs i'm verrrryyyy skeptical about their practicality

[wicked crater]

yeah, that's fair. that's part of the reason I don't support bastille directly

[kind raft]

so 100% absorb from woo?

[stark hound]

You can do that with fallen sky mail fwiw

[wicked crater]

it at least has to be a hybridised version, if at all

[kind raft]

need 2 amity tho

[wicked crater]

oh, yeah. this was also a favourite of mine but i'd just.. forgotten about it

[elfin hound]

If you invest

[wicked crater]

Dorado's Guard could provide bonus ward abs

[elfin hound]

Happy to remind you 😃

[kind raft]

add it you clown

[wicked crater]

I think I'd talked about it in TitS but not ehre

yea, sure

[stark hound]

Im at 2% battery so forgive me if I stop engaging for a while 😅 Increased ward absorption definitely sounds interesting

[kind raft]

i'd like it to be not amity dependent

[elfin hound]

In summary: it is hard to balance the ward dex relationship for dorito. Building full ward makes it gilga lite, but full dex and the thief aspect is missing (base and covis do the same but better)

[kind raft]

gear + dex scaling = win

or just make it dex scaling tbh

[wicked crater]

-- "increased absorption with ward skills": allows easier redlining and (with investment) 100% abs via WoO. effect cap should be below 18% as 0.18x abs gets WoO to 100% abs

my ideal (if this effect were to be added) would be maxed dorado passive and one other +abs source (fallen sky, 1x amity) would get you to 100% abs via WoO

[kind raft]

issue is then you can't use full boosters

[wicked crater]

so probably a cap of 15% on Dorado. hell, make it a cap of 10% and then give dorado rampart 4 or 5 that has 90% abs

[kind raft]

whereas if it's dex scaled, then at least via acensions you can still use full boost

[elfin hound]

Betting a better ROI on dex investment is a win for Dorito, having some peak at the skills could help gain insights as to how a passive could also be brought into the theme

[kind raft]

or fallen sky = boots and not chest

[wicked crater]

give dorado rampart 5 with 5 turns ward, 90% abs and no regen, then throw rampart 4 on a TG celestial or in the arcanist

I don't think just Dorado should allow 1 turn 100% abs, but maybe that's overly cautious

[stark hound]

Only issue would be actually having warrior gear with decent dex to make tanky builds work

[wicked crater]

realistically better access to 1 turn 100% abs is a gigantic help in horde/party content

[kind raft]

yep ^

then getting status wouldn't be so bad

etc. etc. etc.

it's still annoying but that's ok

at least you don't die

[wicked crater]

yeah, that's where new gear would have to come in imo. bits and pieces of this exist, but it's not common or potent

eg. ARR's 50 dex

or celestial weaponry dex

those are the two best options in the game atm by far

yeah, I think i'm more or less convinced away from bastille effects for Dorado then. I'm wondering about improvements to Resurgence II, but beyond that, the stat passive is alright

Dorado does have many things over pre-HT Realm to make berserk-less gameplay work

namely steadfast, accuracy, warrior gear

[kind raft]

zerkless = so cool btw

[elfin hound]

Big win no zerk

[wicked crater]

like, this patch is making me excited to actually play realm again

it's been many months

[kind raft]

zerkless horde is the dream, mostly because of inability to deal with status at 1hp in booster

so going down the direction of solving horde on the zerkless variant (dorito) is really interesting

[wicked crater]

I've been playing Beo/GS ~exclusively lately. Realm had just become too painful, but this is looking potentially better

I think Resurgence improvements that are worth considering would be:

• higher boost (2.25x?), or
• quicker scaling (from 60%? 80%? 100?)

[kind raft]

same scaling, max benefit at 20% is fine

[wicked crater]

I still don't think capping resurgence at >1HP is good. It breaks the theme too much for me

[elfin hound]

Man I am going to find 4 more towers so I can get Dorito

[kind raft]

just raise the floor

so 2x quad gets you the max benefit

you can still zerk and also get the max benefit

[wicked crater]

honestly, yeah, this is making me want to grind out some towers to get Dorito and a celestial bow

maybe even a greatbow

since it'll have 6 slots 😱

[elfin hound]

Yah that is neat! I do wish it had 7. But it is what it is

[stark hound]

You might want the axe for Dorado

At least if you want the CS/SS variant build

[wicked crater]

regarding quad I still prefer quicker scaling than higher floor. even with +20% to the floor you'd be getting little stats on 1x quad edge (60% HP with 70% start) would be 22% stats (10/50 * 110) whereas max 1hp, starting 100% HP would be 44% stats (40/100 * 110 = 44)

[stark hound]

But yea, I’m really excited to try dorado with these new changes. Slight changes to resurgence 2 might still be needed, in line with what you proposed earlier, but it’s looking really fun atm

[wicked crater]

you got any idea where the Dorado dex cap sits at? I'm just not sure if I can get enough dex without celestial thief weaponry

[kind raft]

lost me

[wicked crater]

it's looking a good amount better for Dorito specifically, yeah. it suffers way less from Realm's turn economy issues thanks to steadfast

[stark hound]

I don’t think anyone has done extensive testing on that, at least to my knowledge

[cold vine]

realmshifters and math, oil and water

[kind raft]

@scenic knoll what are the chances i don't get this math after 3 tries

[marsh belfry]

I'm not saying bastille is the only option, but the new passive isn't going to fix the core issue with horde in that we simultaneously lack damage and die easy

[wicked crater]

1x quad edge is -40% HP so from full HP that takes you down to 60%

atm scaling stats at 50%, so no benefit
if you raise the floor by 20% then scaling starts at 70% and ends at 20% (50% range) meaning you're 10% into resurgence (60% HP with start at 70% is 10% in)
if you raise the start to 100% then scaling starts at 100% and ends at 1% (100% range) meaning you're 40% into resurgence (60% HP with start at 100% is 40% in)

[stark hound]

If you get a second attack than it definitely fixed the damage issue. The base stats buffs also help with that

[wicked crater]

actually, if the issue is not one shotting things, then avidity helps the most there

[marsh belfry]

In T11 boss horde? Fallen realm is going to feast on your soul

[kind raft]

i mean i'm ok with starting at 100% 😄

[wicked crater]

the things that avidity does not improve are:

• turns lost to statuses (lost turn or cleansing it)
• vs multiple enemies where you one shot any you hit

[stark hound]

I’ve been running t11 horde in boosters, fallen realm isn’t really a threat

[kind raft]

agree

[stark hound]

Resurgence 2 + golems is insane tankiness

[marsh belfry]

Are you smacking them to low health, or single target?

[kind raft]

also being able to use gunnr instead of snotra = win

[stark hound]

Smacking them to ~10% hp half the time because I lack the attack to consistently one shot

[kind raft]

i zero fallen realms as deity in boosters without getting close to blueline

[stark hound]

They’ve never once put me at risk

[hard sandal]

What is a possible improvement to the second point? I can't see a problem there

[elfin hound]

Worth mentioning that these fixes mainly allow end game rs farm horde. Most new players will find another class easier to farm horde dungeons

[stark hound]

Heretic and Anubis are the scary ones because of gunnr and sigils

[marsh belfry]

Hrm, if fallen realms don't obliterate you at low health then I don't see a problem

[wicked crater]

that second bit is not necessarily problematic. it only is if you're forced to kill them one by one. even 2 by 2 against 5 is iffy, particularly with CS being a 67% chance to hit 2

none of the changes this patch helps with that, as it's just a (melee) AoE availability ""issue""

[marsh belfry]

Last time I let one get low it murdered my face >_> but that wasn't with proper buffs either

[wicked crater]

I was just pointing out what aspects of horde avidity doesn't help with

[hard sandal]

Ohh, I see the problem now, I thought that you were saying that with AOE spells, mb

[stark hound]

I don’t use golems btw since I’m saving turns. I just mentioned it because I know not using it is a commodity from my ALs

[wicked crater]

what ascension are ye at? @stark hound

[stark hound]

Currently 50, started running horde boss at around 43 I believe

[wicked crater]

jesus christ

yeah I could never 😭

even in Orna (before I retired and moved to Aethric) i stopped at Asc25

[hard sandal]

I'm 5 and lacking orns 😂

[wicked crater]

granted I could have kept going, but I got blocked by pure draconite and I just didn't kill 18k ymirs like @cold vine

[marsh belfry]

Ok fallen realms hit like noodles apparently

[dark ridge]

To RS yeah you can defense through it np

[marsh belfry]

Follow up question:

If the bird gets nerfed, does Dorado fall apart in current state? How much do you rely on DC Bord?

[dark ridge]

For Towers it would hurt a lot especially with my nerfed AV2

[marsh belfry]

Also, I have no idea how yall deal with divine bastion and keeping ward up without yeeting your phone. It's hell

[wicked crater]

oh right, who cares about chim zerk given AP

I'm still not in the AP w/ Realm mindset lol

[dark ridge]

But right now I'm not dependent on ap in Towers

[marsh belfry]

Oh I don't use AP in towers at all. More thinking horde boss in T11

[mild barn]

I know it's the hilarious minority, but I actually like being crap at horde. Having to kill things one at a time is part of the class fantasy to me. The new passive is so close to making it possible.

The addendum then is that the fact that classes do solo as fast and as well and safer pushes the game toward "everyone should be able to do anything".

[stark hound]

AP is definitely an important part of horde with Dorado. I don’t know what the plans are for AP but I’d rather see it lose power in other areas (block chance, ward upkeep with attack spells) than DC but we’ll see what happens there

Avidity 3 should help alleviate that though

[stark hound]

In what scenario?

[marsh belfry]

T11 horde boss

Gunnr takes DB, and I haven't used DB in a dungeon in like a year. I hate it

[stark hound]

I don’t have to upkeep ward, the regen from dorado more than makes up for the damage I take

[marsh belfry]

Ah sorry, upkeep ward turns

[stark hound]

Phoenix gives me the turns needed. If they nerf that, I’ll just use the warrior legs that give infinite turns

[wicked crater]

Dorado should have a skill that recovers ward and can crit

[stark hound]

I also use GS4 whenever 1 solo mob survives/evades my sweep

[marsh belfry]

Guess I need more action rate then, or a good pair of legs

[wicked crater]

preferably melee elementless (so matches weapon/affinity) too

screw WoL =/

and I generally prefer melee elementless over hard-locked "physical"

[dark ridge]

5% regen for sortie and 7.5% for 2

Wishlist

[wicked crater]

idk if sortie 1 needs the improvement

sortie 2 should get buffed, but idk if with ward regen

i was thinking a new skill

[dark ridge]

I don't think Sortie 2 should exist

[wicked crater]

me neither lol

[marsh belfry]

Or, 4D chess here, we all advocate for ascensions to get capped at 50 and then horde mode dungeons in farm gear don't matter anymore

[wicked crater]

it's insulting in its current state, and having just "Sortie" was cool to be a skill without v2/v3/etc

[dark ridge]

Better or worse than Realm Strikes 2?

[hard sandal]

With mages they have Magic Chakram, Unstable, Ara vesta family.

RS: You get a 2 at the end of your skill

[dark ridge]

How does Hexacut compare to Pavane?

[hard sandal]

I don't remember, gonna check it

[open junco]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-type-fast-busy-kitten-gif-16655467

Ok Major. This gif doesnt help at all but you won it.

[swift field]

I haven't unlocked a celestail class yet, tho I have the shards.. and it didn't dawn on my that both rs celestial classes lose recharge.. does that make hard mode difficult?

[dark ridge]

I wouldn't touch hardmode with them

Base RS is still amazing there though

Corvus was pointless anyways since Critical Chain didn't stay between floors

[swift field]

I thought the whole reason bloodshift and high tenacity worked was because of recharge

[dark ridge]

It's not what they're for is really all I can say ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift field]

gotcha

[hard sandal]

M2 is 3.425 with hexacut

M2 is 6.5 with Pavane

[dark ridge]

Now hard endless Corvus? Yeah.

[hard sandal]

I think the math is right

[dark ridge]

Man that just isn't enough lol

I know Pavane is spec locked but still

[hard sandal]

Hexa has a higher cealing but a WAY lower floor

I think I might have messed up

1s

[dark ridge]

The screen shake of crit is too satisfying to give up anyways

[hard sandal]

Yes, the M2 calculation is right

It's 0.04 - 1.1 with 6 hits

[wicked crater]

my kind of ideal set of full changes to Dorado...:

• increase dex multipler from 0.85x -> 1.2x / 737 -> 1040 (may need to increase dex required for max Dorado)
• increase def/res multiplier from 1.2x -> 2.0x / 443 -> 738
• replace Dorado passive effect "recover from a status effect" with "absorption from ward skills" (max 10% / 1.1x)
• resurgence scales starting at 100% HP
• add Rampart IV to skill list: Grants Ward for 4 turns and increases damage absorption to 90%.
• add <skill> to skill list: <single hit, decent piercing, recovers ward, can crit>

in addition to the already present:

• slight base Realm stat improvements
• added Avidity III

non-dorado specific stuff:

• add more items with ward and dex
• add more items with dex that don't suck coconuts

w/ 2095 att

M1=1, M2={0.25-1.1}x6 avg. 4.05

[wicked crater]

^

[hard sandal]

why is my min m2 counting as 0.04 in my calculations then?

Isn't the lower value also divided by 6?

[wicked crater]

i'm using the beta display which has gotten some changes (improvements!)

eg. note it says the number of hits

beta power range is min - max of one hit

[hard sandal]

makes sense

[wicked crater]

which is what it always should have been

[stark hound]

This I can definitely subscribe to. Don’t think all of these would be necessary (might make the class a bit overtuned) but they are definitely steps in the direction that would make Dorado feel very good to play

[hard sandal]

Yes

[wicked crater]

which do you think may be oversteps?

eg. here's hexacut on live with an att stat of 3777

[wicked crater]

also, it's the higher value divided by the number of hits

live power is min of one hit to max of ALL hits

so the absolute minimum and absolute maximum a skill can deal

[stark hound]

While I do like the idea of increased ward absorption, I’m not sure NF wants to go the route of allowing for turn 1 100% absorption without a major takeaway (currently you need a specific piece of armor and 2 amities, aka Oracle)

[wicked crater]

oh, that'd still require another source of +abs for 1 turn 100%

with ramp4 it'd by 1.1x90, so 99%

[stark hound]

So rampart IV might be too much I think

[wicked crater]

ward abs effects are multiplicative 😅

I suppose 99% is problematic in PvP..? I don't think Dorito is overbearing there, though

or that Dorito is that difficult to take down. maybe harder with the changes this patch, though

[stark hound]

You’d still be getting 100 with either 1 amity or the fallen mail

[wicked crater]

yeah, you'd need one other source

[gloomy pelican]

wait, do single hits ever miss? Why wouldn't it be (min) (# hits)?

[wicked crater]

so still a pretty big opportunity cost

[stark hound]

Dorado is good in pvp but not oppressive imo. I still get land taken from me quite easily, even with max ward + warden

[wicked crater]

? yeah, single hits can miss. maybe i'm misunderstanding the question though

[wicked crater]

yeah, that's about what I thought. the ramp4 and innate abs boost would quicker be a pvp boost than make it problematic in PvP

[gloomy pelican]

As in, for the 6 cuts of hexacut. I don't think I've ever seen a single hit out of RS miss for example, it's either it hits or it doesn't.

[stark hound]

Still, this is me being majorly nitpicky, I do agree with the list as a whole

[wicked crater]

the idea is just making setup for horde/party content more tolerable

[wicked crater]

yeah, you're correct. power is just weird like that

i worded that poorly/incorrectly

it's not absolute min to absolute max

power is just weird, though with the beta it's gotten a ton better

[stark hound]

Fair, that’s a good point. I’ve mostly been doing horde as solo with dorado but having to cast DB in parties is so painful

[wicked crater]

ya, that's the killer

[gloomy pelican]

fair enough lol. Still way better than the LCS from D2 lol

[wicked crater]

DB in parties is absolutely god awful

even 85% from WoO isn't enough to comfortably redline in parties

but 99% would be (or 94% with 1.1x abs, but no ramp4)

I think 99%/94% would be. 99% maybe if you're the carry and getting the most turns, 94% is also okay. 85% is enough if you're just sitting there being carried though (obviously), since no need to redline/quad

another cool skill would be something that consumes ward and cleanses negative effects

bonus points if it includes perm stat debuffs or something rarer like blight/toxic. more bonus points if it's more expensive on non-realms

[stark hound]

It would have to bypass the chance at not acting from the debuff though

But I’d gladly pay a ton of ward for that

[wicked crater]

Corvus should get an Outrage-eqsue (pokemon) skill. locks you in, dealing damage each turn for 2-4 turns and stunning you at the end of it

[hard sandal]

Oh alright, that makes sense

[wicked crater]

something like M1=1, M2=around 5-6, locks you in for (randomly) 2-3(? 3-4? 2-4?) turns, 10% crit, stuns you at the end. maybe a custom stun "exhausted" or w/e, so you can't immune it through gear

[pulsar pasture]

What's the topic here now?

[wicked crater]

nothing specific. i was just talking about realm skill changes/additions

[pulsar pasture]

I see

BTW, ultimastrikes are decent now
Cele bow, 5 hands, no affinity, did more damage than rstrikes with dark sigil
Against fey yeti with prism wall up. About the same without the sigil

[marsh belfry]

I'm trying to run horde boss as Dorado and envision the places where avidity will make a difference, and I still absolutely hate it

Still get statuses constantly, not enough damage to reliably one shot the fallen mobs, using an Affinity still results in half the later floors being resistant/immune

Avidity will surely help, but it just fundamentally is not at all fun to play for me

Power to yall if you do though, I'll just be sticking to hard boss and T8 alt farm

[pliant pilot]

Does the avidity work like a debuff - so stuff like assassin spec boosts it's proc chance, or more like lugus, or Deity self-dc passive?

[wicked crater]

I believe it's a static chance to proc

otherwise you could very easily get to 100% avidity lol

[elfin hound]

Per mob

[wicked crater]

so yeah, kinda like Deity's thing except it also takes the turn from the enemy hit

[pliant pilot]

Oh neat, thanks^^

[pulsar pasture]

It basically skips the enemies turn and goes straight back to you

Imagine you're 1v1ing someone in uno and you drop a reverse or a skip

[wicked crater]

asc25

any tips 😅

[marsh belfry]

Affinity + damage amity

More ward

[kind raft]

Wrong amity lol

[marsh belfry]

That's all I got lol

[kind raft]

Crit amity on cs

What a clown

Bulwark

Dragon axe

Dragon dmg amity

[wicked crater]

bet

[stark hound]

Great spiked shield

[wicked crater]

hey, i have non-crit skills

[stark hound]

The T Atk ++ buff does wonders for that build btw. CS is still mediocre with no buffs even at AL50

[wicked crater]

ngl this is a surprising amount of ward

unsure what I expected, but not this

ok lmao i got mark/executed

[stark hound]

That’s around what I’m running, but I’m using Ymir charm and briny

[wicked crater]

still just... 😬

[stark hound]

That’s one of the few floors where I always WoO

[wicked crater]

yeah, i wasn't really looking to run a tower. just needed things to hit with the setups

[stark hound]

What spec are you running?

[wicked crater]

zwei

but sweep also sucks

[stark hound]

Sweep is only good for Haiti, skoll and Anubis pretty much

[wicked crater]

yeah, that's what i figured

[stark hound]

I think that bulwark eats too much into your ward though

[wicked crater]

yeah i don't have a higher quality on this beta

back to FYC (legendary)

this is alright

it's not great, but it's alright

[stark hound]

Once you start getting the buffs it gets pretty consistent

[wicked crater]

I really dislike that it's a chance for CS/AV2 to hit a second enemy

[stark hound]

Better than the crit build, and less time needed

[wicked crater]

I want my skills to be consistent, not to randomly take 5x as long on a floor =/

yeah, it seems safer too

[stark hound]

Much

[wicked crater]

regular melee doesn't have any partial aoe

which absolutely sucks

[stark hound]

WoO and emergency ward of light 3 means you’re super safe

[wicked crater]

what spec do you run?

[stark hound]

Im yet to die in a tower

[wicked crater]

making me want to play realm again lol

[stark hound]

Usually zwei but mostly because I’m too lazy to swap from doing dungeons. Cata would be ideal

[wicked crater]

I really want to know the scaling and cap of the Dorado passive, but I do not want to do that testing 😅

fun. this is what AV2 does unbuffed T1 😅

maybe not in this patch though

either way. this feels okay, if not a little odd

[stark hound]

Yea, AV2 was excessive 😅

[wicked crater]

it feels half like realm and half something else, but not even exactly gilga

making me want to play realm again on live lol

but my thief gear in Aethric is a travesty

[stark hound]

I honestly like it a lot, super refreshing gameplay shift from regular realm

[wicked crater]

i wish the strike/seal3s were given more than 5% crit chance. it feels like the original set of crit stuff were given variable crit chance, but then all the new stuff just has 5%

godstrike/seal3s having 20% base crit wouldn't be out of line at all

[pulsar pasture]

I wanna see sabatour 3

I wanna MELT ymir if it ever manages to db

[charred echo]

Get better fyc

And oonc

[wicked crater]

great

[charred echo]

@wicked crater Why don't you have at least legendary bulwark?

[wicked crater]

because i didn't have it upgraded when i got this mirror

[charred echo]

Hmm

Well the best is to get good bulwark

I am confused about your number of ascensions.

Do you have a higher number of ascensions in other class?

[wicked crater]

no

I just don't play a ton

the ascension grind (read: alting, refineries) is a god awful experience for me so I just don't do it

[charred echo]

Understandable

[gentle moat]

Can the wording change on Avidity To not say steals turn. Since we don't end up with the turn it sounds a bit misleading. Maybe something about tricking the enemy out of their turn. just being nit picky xD

[kind raft]

It could literally say realm had a tough day and sat on the toilet and birthed a turn…. As long as I get to act again before the enemy does

Also back to back sweeps with fast animation 👌

[idle dagger]

The correct wording would be lose a turn instead of steal a turn.

[nocturne scaffold]

Should just say realmshifted when you steal a turn

[hybrid temple]

Go all the way, throw it up in the red GTA font, B&W filter everything else w/ slow-mo

[kind raft]

But can turn off animation via settings right? 😅

[nocturne scaffold]

Nope only speed them up

[modern marsh]

So does it work with raids?

[willow bronze]

It does

Based on what Ive read thats where it shines too on single enemies not on horde.

[stark hound]

The new changes mentioned by Odie would make it shine in horde as well. I’m assuming those aren’t still live in the beta yet since they’ll take time to implement

[marsh belfry]

They aren't live as of ~15 minutes ago. I keep checking so I can test - too much hype

[stark hound]

Just checked, they aren’t. Makes sense, it will take some time to get them operational

[kind raft]

What about now

Last check was 8 mins ago

🤡

[gilded sedge]

Honestly the VD freaking pisses me off. One of the iconic parts of the class, that has slowly been chipped away at with the VD helms, and now we're lesser? Come on.

Aaaand complaining about something that's a non issue I guess

[kind raft]

It’s reverted already

[marsh belfry]

The VD boost is back

[gilded sedge]

Realm strikes nerf.. meh. Annoying, if nothing changes with how easy it is to stack def and get zeroed out, I'll continue only pvping for war...

[kind raft]

And now it’s awkward

[gilded sedge]

Oof. Just a bit.

Proc chance on new mechanic? Anybody figure out if it's possible to increase chance by assassin?

[kind raft]

20-25%

More for Dorito coz it’s 3

And not yet re assassin

[gilded sedge]

Well I'll see how it is once patch goes live

[pulsar pasture]

Instead of just...testing now in beta and giving feedback?

[charred echo]

My question is, when will realms get skills comparable to Ara Vesta 2 and Chained shield?

[craggy holly]

I am curious. Why the nerf to realmstrike lol

This is so unexpected

[charred echo]

It's only in PvP

[pulsar pasture]

PvP only, I see they're getting separate values which is also in the skill description
But yes, the realmstrikes nerf wasn't necessarily needed as most have already expressed it gets 0'd pretty easily
It can't even 1 tap summons if the GS is running benefactor and if they aren't sortie will also 1 shot 90% of the time

!skill realmstriked

[past plinth]

No matches found!

[pulsar pasture]

!skill realmstrikes

[past plinth]

No matches found!

[pulsar pasture]

Well ignoring the absolute embarrassment right there,
Rstrikes 1 has an m1 of 1 while sortie has an m1 of 1.8 meaning its simply better for pvp

[craggy holly]

Yes. I know it is pvp only. But the m1 is only at 1

[pulsar pasture]

If rstrikes aren't getting 0'd turn 1 (which isn't the case for me yet) they're gonna get 0'd after golems or deific

[pulsar pasture]

That's what I just said.
It wasn't a necessary nerf but it changes little since the skill isn't used in the first place

[hard sandal]

Yeah, I also feel like that wasn't a very necessary nerf, even at 228 I've started using sortie to deal DMG in wars or arena

Even if I try to use Realm Strikes to kill someone, there's still a base 10% miss chance (I use a Riftrogue helmet)

[queen wave]

I was heretic i unlocked Gilgamesh, then Beowulf and realmshifter. I like realmshifter. Risky abd i know its very Bad but being raider i put more than 1m to Morrigan with realmstrikes. Now im tryin with charmer. I like this class very much

Can't wait for the update

[pulsar pasture]

It's got better damage output than heretic before you unlock the big boy mage spells

Before bloodshift it'll be harder yes, luckily I hope bloodshift is being moved to 230 for my fellow realmshifter brothers and sisters

[hard sandal]

I'd need only 2 levels to reach it!! pog

Also, any thought on recharge healing 25% of hp & mana?

[pulsar pasture]

A nerf tbh

[hard sandal]

It's more consistent than 10-50% and it's a bit lower than the 30% average we had

[pulsar pasture]

Less potential mana regen but consistent
More potential hp regen

With recharge 2 I could use rstrikes several turns in a row if recharge rolled low% for hp, leaving me ~1k-1,5k hp

[hard sandal]

How does the potential hp regen compare to zerks from raider + chimera or similar?

[pulsar pasture]

Assuming no DoT boosting amity, 999+999+5% from zerk 1
You'll be receiving about uhh, 2300? 2400? Self damage

What's your hp in raids?

[hard sandal]

I currently have 10.5k hp

With zwei*

with raider that would change to...

[pulsar pasture]

All 3 zerks you'll be getting back under 200hp each crit

[hard sandal]

8400

what's the % of Zerk3?

[pulsar pasture]

15

Zerk 1 is 5
Zerk 2 is 10
Zerk 3 is 15
For a total of 30%

[hard sandal]

999 then + 420 with raider + chimera

[wicked crater]

I think it's way better. since it's consistent you can bank on it healing you for certain amounts much, much more often and it won't bring you out of resurgence in one fell swoop as often

been asking for recharge II -> I for literal years 😅

fun fact: Orna used to cache in-battle values so once upon a time Recharge II was consistent on a per-battle basis

[hard sandal]

It would be for me around 681 net positive for me, net negative 159 for me at 3 zerk

[wicked crater]

so sometimes (before HT days) you'd get runs where recharge was only healing 10% and it was glorious

[pulsar pasture]

Pre bloodshift, it's good, you can account for the hp loss, it'll require actual management of base stats before you can consistently use crits
Post bloodshift, it's sorta a nerf

[hard sandal]

It seems a very good change for me

[pulsar pasture]

Although, it might even prevent the use of bloodshift

Get your hp to the sweetspot, and you can stay on 1hp without needing to worry about overhealing

Sadly you'll need to manage that every level

[hard sandal]

This change would work perfectly if the max range of resurgance were increased, or made berserk apply after healing

since now you would always be 25% hp pre-bloodshift

If berserk is after healing, you would stay at 1 hp always

[wicked crater]

that's also something i'd talked about in the past. the healing/damage order is really unfortunate for Realm

[pulsar pasture]

Resurgence should start at max hp change my mind

[hard sandal]

In my opinion, resutgance should be 100-1% instead of 50-1%, but berserk should apply after healing

[wicked crater]

all this stuff makes me want to pick up dorito

but i don't have the heart to grind 210k tower shards atm

my motivation is shot to hell lol

[hard sandal]

It completely negates the option of infinite optimal dmg, yeah :/

[wicked crater]

and it's even aethric, so the classes are cheaper

[hard sandal]

I completely understand how you feel, it's the same for me tbh, I've been looking even before I reached T10 ways to try to make RS better without catha, only for it to be a RS catha that is in simple words "better"

[wicked crater]

I don't have my Orna gear in Aethric for Realm, so I really would like to have a celestial bow or axe to make Dorito work, but that's a lot of shards lol

[hard sandal]

Gilga with Celestials got new skills such as CC, or completely new type of playstyle,

Heretic got Ara vesta family, and some interesting dmg options such as chakrm or thinblade,

Deity got the new incredible passives that now work with phoenix

Meanwhile RS only got a 2 on it's most "iconic" skills:

• Realm Strikes 2
• Sortie 2
• Realmshift 2
• (2+2) Edge

While in the meantime, RS is still being held on by it's own restrictions on (almost) all the possible cases

[pulsar pasture]

Not to mention the celestial nyx atrocity

[hard sandal]

Something that doesn't exist cannot hurt me

Celestial nyx is not real

[pulsar pasture]

I can get by the fact there's no new ideas for the t9 nyx skills but I'd rather have had the update delayed while they think of something than a copy pasted base nyx skill list on both celestial classes

Also, realized it's named realmshifter changes when the changes came to the thief classline all together

[hard sandal]

Another thing to note is that Nyx Hercules, got completetly removed from any passive healing such as life syphon, recharge or ward regen

[pulsar pasture]

Currently there's little to absolutely no reason to buy any t9 celestial other than auriga solely for the griffin summon that happens to be good pre-240

[hard sandal]

Ward of light III, maybe, Brynhild II maybe

Brynh is if we actually find out exactly how it works

[pulsar pasture]

There's no known differences between brynhild 1 and 2

[hard sandal]

Well, something has to change, right?

I guess...

[pulsar pasture]

Ward of light 3 maybe
But damaging ward regen for melee comes from classes with the third costing 15k tower shards vs mages who just gotta wait for theirs to appear in an arcanist
Also, transference is elementless while WoL is holy, meaning transference sees more use due to not being immuned/resisted at all
Although both skills will regen ward to the same extent even if you hit a 0

[hard sandal]

ward of light has a "high" m1 though, it can help against non-holy immune enemies

gonna check the m1 of wol3, 1s

1.7

It's 0.3 less than Omnistrike III, but regens ward & blinds

Sortie 2 is literally 1.9 m1 instead of 1.8 btw

[pulsar pasture]

Odds are if you gotta use it you're dead already

But not necessarily

[hard sandal]

With realm: Yes, but not exactly with other classes, since it heals from ward%, so deity or gilga could work against tough match-ups with net neutral ward

[pulsar pasture]

Sabatour so far has allowed me to melt the ward of any gilga or deity I met in the arena

I'm talking about 1 shooting their ward, and some had 36k regen /turn

[hard sandal]

when I was T10 with Nyx (because I had to use all my orns for the chrismas pet event), sabotaur was almost mandatory against enemies with ward

[pulsar pasture]

Class>pets

Only worth while one would've been phoenix

[hard sandal]

I got F.chimera + Phoenix + Mimic, Got down to 0 but didn't took long before I got the class since +100% rewards amity

Now I just unlocked Deity with Rs & tower achievements (up to f20 or smth) and then reached f50 with deity and bought all the classes (except Heretic & GS lines)

Anyways, any ideas with Corvus Endless atm?

[pulsar pasture]

After it goes live, it'll turn meta for rs endless

[noble shadow]

I don't think this was talked about before so I'd like to share my thoughts about this.

Change from recharge II to recharge is actually hurting RS swash a lot ;/ I dont like it at all.
Reasons:
Let's say you have 1k mana in your final build (quite optimistic - you need very good feros). Now, if you crit and will be getting less than 200 mana per turn you will end up potting (because after the buffing phase you will have like 400-500), which sucks a lot for such a glass cannon spec. Additionally, I didn't actually mind recharging to full HP especially for KG raids where swash really shines. Most folks won't be able to acquire even this 1k mana and will be running with around 800 which means you have to get the full 25% recharge bonus to stay even. It will be pretty much unplayable because potting up will get very frequent.
It also affects PvP, where as swash, you can end up with like 600 mana and sometimes you need to use your basic to be able to hit your realmstrikes/sortie II again (that's especially annoying vs second chancers or extremely defense stacked deity where you need to start buffing to do any damage).
Its quite annoying because usually you wont be critting without bloodshift anyway so this change is good only for some niche situations. I guess it's a change only useful in some desperate endless situations where you have to attack and casting bloodshift would put your life at risk (which may not occur anymore as corvus may become endless meta for thief line).

[pulsar pasture]

Not specifically about swash but was talked about

[pulsar pasture]

Crit chain, no recharge, mindless sortie spam and occasional sleep > mana potion maybe

[hard sandal]

Maybe with a +40% crit dmg 5% max mana regen you can just go to sleep

[hard sandal]

Sortie costs 40/80 mana, meaning that to be net negative for it you need to have less than 200/400 mana,

With Realmstrikes you need 800 mana considering you have 3 riftrogue,, but if you don't have any you would need around 920 mana

Recharge 1 is 25% hp/mana, so you get fairly quite some mana back.

[noble shadow]

u get almost the same amount as u spend in the best case scenario only

u dont always get 25% with recharge

its the maximum amount

even with recharge II u could get out of mana as swash using realmstrikes at ~900-1000 mana

[hard sandal]

This is on Hidden Info, I think it is always 25%

[hard sandal]

That's because 10% of 1000 is 100, being net negative sometimes but possitives on other

[noble shadow]

Huh, so its always 25%. Then it would actually not be that bad. I thought it works as recharge II having a range

If this is true then i think it may be ok

[hard sandal]

Nope, recharge is only worse by 5% healin on average but it's more consistent

[pulsar pasture]

Yep, recharge 1 is fixed 25%
Recharge 2 has a range, but more regen potential

[stark hound]

The change to recharge 1 also makes things like endless much more manageable. You’ll no longer be healing for 50% on a floor where you can afford to use bloodshift, just to get smacked by a zerk mob in the next floor

I don’t think it’s fair to talk about lack of skills atm when we’ve already been told they’ll be adding new ones this week

[pulsar pasture]

Corvus for no recharge
Hp can be sweetspotted so you regain 0 after zerks

Otherwise, you can afford a few crit heals before you encounter a sleepable enemy

[dapper wasp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064444313989304330/1097736038610370591/Screenshot_20230417-210950.png
I don't know when that was posted, but this was shared around. I just want to say I really like this. On one hand i wish it was predictable, like depending on the passive level, gain an extra turn every 4-3-2 turns or something, so you know when you can possibly pull some 2 turn skills etc. But at the same time, Nothing wrong with not knowing.

I also like that it is more self contained by giving you free actions vs stealing actions, otherwise a party run of RS could be funny, with each having a chance to steal mobs or raid boss turn resulting in high chances of mobs never attacking. It seems easier to balance gear around a personal bonus then a debuff.

Again, this change avoids haivng 2-3 RS doing raids that the boss never gets to do an action

[half coral]

Give dorado ward regen on crit

[dapper wasp]

That would be nice

[pulsar pasture]

That might be a little strong, don't you think

[half coral]

It's more manageable but the heal is applied after the degen so you will always be at 25%

[stark hound]

Yea but, from my experience, being at 25% isn’t a run ender. Being at 50% though, that can go wrong really quick

[noble shadow]

I think its because of how HT is implemented. You actually heal 1st, otherwise u would die to dots when going for skill like osmostrike/wol on other classes while on low hp, I guess

[charred echo]

I think one of the good buff which won't be game breaking for RS is decrease in the mana cost for some skills.

[dapper wasp]

Nyx has the worse time with mana, since they don't have any mana regen passives

[charred echo]

Yep

So this can help in turn economy

As less poting

[dapper wasp]

I am currently getting help switching to attuner to finish my T9 because I am tired of the swordplay - mana pot rotation

[marsh belfry]

@kind raft @stark hound

New avidity mechanic is live, will test soonish

[stark hound]

Thanks for the heads up, I’ll get to testing!

[dapper wasp]

curious if it will proc in a row

[stark hound]

It does

[marsh belfry]

Quick overview before I get pulled into work junk:

• it procs on everything now. Regular attack, skills, debuffs, potions, etc
• when attacking, it doesn't have to be successful. I got procs on immune and misses
• it can proc multiple times in a row
• most importantly, it is truly "go again" and not "steal a turn". If it procs, you immediately get another turn before any enemy gets the chance to act again
• proc rate using sweep is higher than with potions/single skills due to the multi proc chance from AoE

[cold vine]

what about ally aoe? 🤔
can you Pray forever with realm/cleric?

[stark hound]

Honestly? This feels really good. It solves the horde problem while speeding up content that was slower due to the buffing phase being huge

[marsh belfry]

Probably, can bust out some summons and test later today

[stark hound]

The proc rate isn’t overwhelmingly high, it feels like a good balance but I’ll have to run some more dungeons

Any tips to finding dungeons in the beta? They always seem much rarer than in live

[marsh belfry]

Yeah it definitely isn't super high, took a lot of attempts to get x2 in a row

Build a fortress

[stark hound]

Wait, are boss and horde exclusive now in beta?

Can’t select both

[cold vine]

o_O

[charred echo]

I would really like to test this in beta

[timid plume]

out of date client

[cold vine]

phew 😅

[stark hound]

Oh, my bad!

[charred echo]

Hope we get mirror requests accepted soon for us normies

[marble raft]

that's how it used to be hehe

[marble raft]

#🍂│late-game-⭐10 message
I am confused about the fourth point. If it really just lets you go again instead of any enemy acting instead of stealing a turn, how come major actually had his turn stolen (all the immortals acted again, and he could not act)

or is that a change in how it works?

since that was back when it was specific to being stolen via attacks and now it is via using anything

[stark hound]

I think the changes weren’t live when that happened to Major

[dapper wasp]

I am supprised it is still a proc per targets, and not a passive thing. Makes going for swipe feels less bad if it is buffed with more turn economie

Does that mean you could proc 2 extra turns from a single swipe actions?

[marsh belfry]

It's a change. Yesterday was a steal mechanic and enemies would still act if their specific turn wasn't stolen

Today it is a go again and only needs to proc once for realm to get an additional turn before the enemies go

[marsh belfry]

It does not.

Sweep at 4 targets is x4 chance to proc, but it still will only give 1 turn

[dapper wasp]

I really like that

Makes Turn 1 swipe more viable then ward

[marsh belfry]

Unless I got really unlucky in my ~200 punches

[patent comet]

Avidity also procs with charging skill turns

[marsh belfry]

Oooohhhhh that is nice

[marble raft]

Reeally now

so you can ""Quickcast"" ursastrikes or ultimastrikes or DC or DB

[stark hound]

Yea, it works on DB as well

[marble raft]

when duking out damage you can also ""Doublecast"" one turn skills like realmstrikes

[dapper wasp]

It is just not on an turn timer, so you can't plan around it

[stark hound]

Which makes sense, since one of the issues to solve was having to DB everytime

[calm quail]

so DB on horde is a bit better turn economy wise now huh

[dapper wasp]

What is DB again?

[calm quail]

divine bastion

[dapper wasp]

It is only better if you get lucky

unless we could know ahead of doing the action, it is still safer to use a 1 turn ward first

[stark hound]

Why? You’re going to be using DB turn 1, you’re not at risk of dieing

[calm quail]

i'm most likely going to be dorito on horde anyway

[stark hound]

You can golems beforehand if you’re low on defensive stats

[calm quail]

no need for woo turn 1

[stark hound]

This is honestly a great solution imo. Feels fresh, different from every other class and solves so many of the issues we brought up

[calm quail]

yes, while still not being better than the best horde class

perfect

[patent comet]

Horde party only with Realms haha

[dapper wasp]

it would had been more broken with stealing turns

[stark hound]

Exactly. We shouldn’t be as good as heretic or deity ara in horde, but this feels like we can actually compete and complete this type of content

[patent comet]

Indeed yes

[strange marsh]

avidity activates with pet action or only with RS action?

[calm quail]

yeah this is what i wanted dorito to be during release, a horde solution

[wicked crater]

this is hype as fuck

[patent comet]

On another point, I'm not that thrilled of that passive to be available for mobs / boss... Especially now that AI can identify our weak element. I've died F74 vs an immortal magus with 2nd and crit. Felt really bad when we can climb very High without problems. Now they'll 2nd chance, can miss and act again 😅 triple threat

[wicked crater]

nah this is awesome

[willow bronze]

Beautiful 😳

[cold vine]

idgi, you used sweep 4 times but all the enemies aren't dead? 🤔

[wicked crater]

im still realmshifter ok

it's no mage's dance

[stark hound]

Yea, chained shield is still better for that imo

They actually die

[wicked crater]

yeah i just wanted to 🧹 🧹 🧹 🧹

it did fuck all

but it was fun

[willow bronze]

I too would like to fuck all 💯💯💯

[charred echo]

It works

Though that damage per floor just sucks

[wicked crater]

well that's just sweep

[marble raft]

I like to imagine that when you gain additional turns, you're still doing the action in the same timeframe

[charred echo]

I can get to 300k per mob with 14 al heretic

[wicked crater]

with CS it's ntb

[marble raft]

so you just swept four times in like a second

[charred echo]

But with all the zerks and attack buffs

[wicked crater]

nah your pet turn takes a second to resolve

sadly

[charred echo]

I could only reach 150k max at 1 hp

[elfin hound]

Should the pet beable to act as well? I bet there is some challenge with detangleing the turn order there. But 1.2 times to proc a temp buff or w/e is probably a bit too much. It might just be enough to act as realm

It also doesn’t make sense that your pet also gets a go-again

[calm quail]

nah pet can just watch us do extra turns

actually, why not

extra chances for DC

because birb is getting nerfed anyway

[wicked crater]

y'all ready for some double acting fallen realms?

i just got clowned on by two of em

[stark hound]

If anything, I think the pet also acting can bring more variety to the pet slot. You can have chimera for zerk and cleanup duty, you can even have something like cactus if you can get some follower stats in your build to help clear second chancers

[wicked crater]

yeah sweep fucking sucks for damage

[elfin hound]

Cool about pet activities. Always worth the question imo

[stark hound]

You need gunnr and atk + and ++

[wicked crater]

i had that

😅

[stark hound]

And redline I’m assuming. Which realm were you using?

[wicked crater]

just can't do it in farming gear ever i guess

dorito

[elfin hound]

As beo variant has a passive that pet acts twice. This kinda beats that out a little

[quick drift]

what about the mana cost :c ?

[patent comet]

Oh, hey that's new

[wicked crater]

yeah it is

i was wondering if it was going to make it to live

that's pretty expensive for scrolls and DMs though

[patent comet]

Indeed !

[wicked crater]

two scrolls for a max tower run is an atrocious return

[stark hound]

Get that Perseus gear while you can

[elfin hound]

Also worth noting that sequencing should probably be off limits for classes with avidity. As you could theoretically cast a single spell 4 times before an opponent could move

[wicked crater]

theoretically you can cast something an infinite number of times before they move

[kind raft]

I’m still casting rn

30 mins later

Sup statistics fuck you

[wicked crater]

wild

[verbal frigate]

Man, you guys are still going strong

[wicked crater]

our core mechanic is cool now. hopefully y'all are next

I still think weights would do a lot for build variety

offer a higher avidity chance for debuffs and cleansing

[calm quail]

duelist could have been the melee dualcast instead, but this is better

[marsh belfry]

It's beautiful

Pending the new skills, we can wrap it up folks

[wicked crater]

atm i don't see cleansing/debuffing being overly used which is unfortunate, but more turns for damage is nice, particular for hordes

the world where you can consistently debuff -> attack things as a reliable strategy 😔 ✊

[calm quail]

you got mirror account bwubs?

[marble raft]

Heals, Dispells and Debuffs with Higher avidity chance
Buffs with Medium avidity chance
Attacks with lower avidity chance?

[calm quail]

yeah that was what major proposed

[wicked crater]

I'd say buff/attack stay at the current chance, but debuff/cleanse doubled chance

upon trying it with avidity chance on attack this feels good, particularly in horde

I just still think boosted chances for debuff/cleanse would be amazing for variety and (again) feel

[calm quail]

we can finally full fomor items, and nag belts, then amadan stasis on repeat

and stasis lock amorri again

[elfin hound]

That’s what I wanted. With 1/2/3 having different weights for the appropriate class use. Ie base higher chance of attack while Dorito higher chance for multi turn or buff or clense to go again

Ect

[wicked crater]

I'm legitimately gushing over the idea of being able to consistently perform a debuff and attack in one turn

debuffs don't see much play outside of the most difficult things in pve (well, just endless), so a reason to use them would be 👌

[calm quail]

everyone: debuff then attack
poo: debuff then debuff some more

[wicked crater]

i mean, that sounds fun

doesn't it?

[strange marsh]

could be 0 with bricriu bow xD

[calm quail]

yea, i love some non one shot meta

[wicked crater]

not to play against, but you can gear for immunities

i'm mainly thinking about pve

tbh

I'd love to actually have a status build in pve

[mild barn]

Yeah make those other classes deal it for once 😁

[calm quail]

i wish we can do it in pve though for real

[patent comet]

Good news is I don't need to farm Oceanus anymore to build around ultimastrikes ahah

[wicked crater]

with a higher chance for Avidity on debuffs and fomorian gear (so you're not forced to use assassin), that sounds like a really interesting/unique build avenue to go down

[calm quail]

outside of just petrifying raids that aren't petrify immune

[wicked crater]

then finally give nyx celestials some celestial skills, and give it a multi-target smoke bomb and stun dart

[marble raft]

New celestial(?) / spec / item with "Your opponents cannot be immune to your damage-dealing status effects"

[calm quail]

the only pve debuff play we've done is either stun/sleep on endless or petrifying on OR

[wicked crater]

give dorado a skill that cleanses effects, but you can never be stunned when using it so you can actually cleanse blight using a skill, rather than sometimes "couldn't move!" and just die

[wicked crater]

yeah, and i'd love to see more of it

like.. i'd genuinely use an AoE stun dart to open a pegasus tower encounter, probably get a second turn from doing it and then kill em off

[calm quail]

there's some people probably doing doom on raids now, but it's still raids

[wicked crater]

(in this theoretical world where 1) avidity procs more often on debuffs, and 2) aoe debuffs exist)

[calm quail]

would be nice to do it in horde boss or somewhere outside

[wicked crater]

it'd also bring back using passive debuff stuff like swordplay, assassin jewels, teardrops etc. since those apply debuffs which would feed into avidity chances

idk. i just like all the possible build options that an avidity with bonuses on debuff/cleanse would bring

strength aside, it just sounds fun, unique to pve and thematic to the thief line

[half saddle]

There's no weights right now are there? In my (very low) sample of 100 turns, Avidity triggered 13 times (13%). About 1 out of every 7 or 8 actions. This was mostly WoO + mana pot alternating against a T10 mob.

[wicked crater]

yeah, no weights

same chance for attacks, skills, items, etc.

you do get a chance per enemy hit, though

so you get much more avidity procs when damaging hordes

[mild barn]

So in this case, the Avidity proc is based on whether you applied a status, whether you could have applied one, or whether it's a status move (vs a pure attack)?

[half saddle]

So in horde it will trigger more often with AoE?

[wicked crater]

yep

[half saddle]

Because 1v1 it's a very low proc rate

[wicked crater]

it's a chance per enemy hit, but you can only ever get one bonus turn

[half saddle]

(In my small tests)

[wicked crater]

yeah, we should test proc rates for sure

[mild barn]

What I mean is, what defines whether it counts as a debuff for weighting

since you mentioned *adorning

[wicked crater]

I'd say it should be bonus avidity chances for each status applied or cleansed

[mild barn]

gotcha

[wicked crater]

but probably need some sort of diminishment for hordes, otherwise eg. spores + mage's dance + aoe is like.. 5 enemy hits and 0-7 status per enemy

[half saddle]

I'm in a horde, but just clicking WoO... so each turn it only has 1 chance to trigger.. but if I was doing AoE attacks instead, it would have multiple chances. ? Seems weird.

[wicked crater]

yes. it's just like all proc chances

imagine you're a deity, you hit 5 things, DC passive procs more often

or lugus, phoenix gear

etc.

[half saddle]

Well, if I was doing AoE I'd be 1 shotting them all

So wouldnt matter

[verbal frigate]

cries in Beo

[wicked crater]

y'all are next

i have faith

[half saddle]

The current proc rate seems to me to be somewhere between 10-15% (Avidity II), needs more tests though. Very small sample (100 single actions)

[wicked crater]

i'm most interested in avidity 3 because i'm quite enjoying dorito

i blame @stark hound 😅

[stark hound]

I will sing the praises of the flaming spicy Dorito all day

[kind raft]

ok we can lock this thread and ship to release now

no further questions your honor

realms rest their case

long live turn economy

[wicked crater]

I'd still fight for increased avidity procs on debuffs and cleanses until the beta is over

I think the chance at some really cool builds is right there 😩

[half saddle]

Yeah I think where it could really shine is in debuffs and cleanses, moreso than attacks

just wonky in hordes now because attacks make it trigger much more often

[wicked crater]

I don't think it's a "moreso" or "more than". just another build option/skill choice that can easily coexist with current avidity

[half saddle]

I'd rather see a higher proc rate for buffs/cleanses, which I think we agree on. I just worry that attack procs are looking high in a horde environment

[wicked crater]

it's pretty high in hordes, but in fairness that's where Realm needed the help

[half saddle]

My little Bricriu's bow works acceptably well with my RS/Raider... clears most floors with 1 click, but sure not as good as other options.

[kind raft]

needs a comparable wall of text to explain it

[wicked crater]

don't tempt me

[marble raft]

tempt

my pin finger is itching

[kind raft]

You have a word count quota to fulfill 🤡 🐶 get to work

[marsh belfry]

Negative - hoping to get one when it opens up to non patreons

[nocturne scaffold]

For beta would be nice to be able to buy event only items in the titan shop

[stark hound]

I do agree it would open up some interesting build paths. As long as it doesn’t come at the cost of a lower proc on attack rolls I’m all for it

[charred echo]

It is nerfed

It's dc proc chance was harshly nerfed

[half coral]

now it is 3% instead of 4.5%?

[charred echo]

It doesn't proc dc as often as it did before.

Like if it was once in every 3-4 turns with 15% chance

Now it's once in every 7-8 turns even with 18% chance

[wicked crater]

i've not felt anything that severe

odd

[stark hound]

My experience doesn’t match those numbers either

[timid plume]

it'll be situationally different, due to the nature of the bug.

ie: when ward is inactive, the chance of DC was higher (due to it also being a Ward granting skill)

would be difficult to put a % number behind it

[stark hound]

Ah, that makes sense. Appreciate the clarification

[hard sandal]

Are you able to use Oceanus lungs to quickcast the already aviditied spell?

[patent comet]

Yes, the description of the augment is misleading, i've writen about it a few times (also as a suggestion to correct it)

It work for skills as well

[hard sandal]

So it would work like usual

[patent comet]

Well, was before this beta, i havn't tested it in the new version but I don't see where it would have been changed

[hard sandal]

Oceanus lungs would he something interesting to use with Ultimatrikes then imo, no that we have avidity and Lungs

Problem is still being a M2 skill

[patent comet]

Oh, wait, you meant like 2 turns Ultimastrikes being avidited and then quickcasted with lungs to make it instant ? Uh, that I couldn't say ! I guess it's best as a combo for 3 turns spells such as DB2... Increases the chances to shorten the casting time

Or Arcane Strikes 4, to find some use for it

[pulsar pasture]

If oceanus procs and then avidity on hit
Otherwise I think using a multi turn skill itself doesn't count

[patent comet]

Ah yes maybe in that order

[pulsar pasture]

Odie did say it'll be changed to where every action will have a chance to trigger it

[patent comet]

Might need a few tests

[pulsar pasture]

Now if waiting on a multi turn skill counts it'll be neat

[young scaffold]

it does

[patent comet]

Yes that was the point of my original note about Oceanus farming

Not being necessary anymore for ultimastrikes, but it it can work with both, would need to see that

Well, I'll do the test ahah

[wicked crater]

Oceanus Lungs and Avidity could offer some very quick DBs

seems neat

[pulsar pasture]

It's still worth farming since you don't want to rely on avidity to proc just to get a free 2 turn skill out

[patent comet]

Ok, so

Without any lungs augment on avidity proc

With lungs on proc

[wicked crater]

my understanding of the mechanics are that quickcast is "on cast, roll if this skill takes 1 less turn" whereas avidity determines whether you get a turn immediately following

changing turns taken versus giving you more turns

if that makes sense

so short answer: no, qc should be decided upon initial casting, then avidity can proc for any turn thereafter

[tiny light]

This looks more broken than the prom hands

[wicked crater]

is this a facetious statement, or 😅

[half saddle]

It's one single point of data. Does it do that every cast?

[glacial scroll]

That got teased with plague doctor spec, right?

[wicked crater]

ish? that was a community contest winner, but we don't know what the implementation of it might look like

[pale estuary]

Can anyone tell me if Bloodshift was moved down to 230 ?

[wicked crater]

besides, I think it would suck if statuses were relegated to one spec

[glacial scroll]

Well I could go and find the message but I'm 99% sure some nf member said it

[wicked crater]

well, "plague doctor" is very obviously statuses

[glacial scroll]

No I mean that's it's a WIP

[wicked crater]

no

[wicked crater]

it'll be in the game at some point, but yeah if it's WIP that's news to me

[patent comet]

Ultimastrikes with lungs + procs (+sleep ahah)

[wicked crater]

this is nice motivation for me to get dorito

👍

[patent comet]

Yes, a bit less instant fun without the lungs...

[charred echo]

Would more lungs make it more efficient to and cast spells or skills faster?

[patent comet]

I'm already maxed on Lungs for the 2h weap

[charred echo]

Oh

How often does it proc?

[queen wave]

May i Ask a question ? I mean an other one...

[charred echo]

I really need to do some tests in beta

If only we could get mirrors faster

[hard sandal]

1.1^X

X being number of Lungs

[patent comet]

10% per lung

[hard sandal]

And it's 1.1^X because it stacks with sequencer for 100% with 5 lungs

[patent comet]

60% chance to Quickcast on 2h

[charred echo]

Wow that's a good %

[hard sandal]

It's 77% as far as my testing has gone

[queen wave]

What is the point with realm lights ? Will this passive be still active After the update ?

[charred echo]

That's like getting sequencer but in gear

[charred echo]

Hopefully yes

Is ultimastrikes good damage?

[pale estuary]

The passive is already reverted back to being there and no mention to take away again - So it should be 🤞

[charred echo]

And what's the M1 value of it?

[queen wave]

Thanks a lot !

[hard sandal]

M1 is 1

But smh

[charred echo]

Lol

[hard sandal]

Funny enough

[charred echo]

As always, Melee class gets sad skills

[hard sandal]

Idk

When will we get a High M1 raiding skill?

[charred echo]

Ultima is 4 and Ultima 2 is 6

Ultima strikes which is much harder to get is M1 of 1

That's just amazing

[hard sandal]

Ultima is now 3.2 and 1.2 M2

[charred echo]

Skill

We have high raiding spells

[charred echo]

Even 2.5 M1 is good for us

[hard sandal]

Yes

Even if its 2 turns

We can work our way out with it with avidity + quick cast

[pale estuary]

Realmstrike should be 2.5

[charred echo]

Amorri dead

That would make everyone cry