#H1 2023 Balance survey

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lament rivet
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Really? i thought gilga is all but invincible at high asc level

crystal lichen
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Gilga's Spiked shield (see here we are back to Spiked Shield being the competitive factor) scales better than most other classes with Ascensions, but we get no stat boost from our class passive really unless we can just either outregen your damage to our ward or zero you out. Which is not that easy to do

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In my experience, Sequencers, Beo Hydrus, Grand Summoners and Swash all rip us to smithereens

onyx pawn
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idk man, i play swash for territories and get routinely 0'd by a decently ascended gilga with golem

crystal lichen
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Territories is a bit different

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Being as you can get a 35% bonus to stats that way

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then influence

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But Deity is still a better base territory defender

onyx pawn
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deity is absolute trash at defense rn with prom hands. i have to resort to parapet and hope 2nd chance procs against BP/ara vesta

livid dome
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To be fair

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Prom hands makes territory D trash in general rn

crystal lichen
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Grand Summoner is probably better too assuming equal gear and ascensions

onyx pawn
crystal lichen
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What % crit do Prom hands give atm?

onyx pawn
livid dome
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Yeah 12%

onyx pawn
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anyways, im still a bit jealous of the 10% territory stat boost herc gets

crystal lichen
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so 60% crit and 1.2x crit damage X5?

onyx pawn
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something like that

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hence 100k+ crits off the bat

crystal lichen
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Also keep in mind neither Herc nor Ursa are "Gilga" when I talk about Gilga for pvp

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I can usually do over 100k crits on my Swash build turn 1 and I don't have prom hands, so I wonder if those would be 200k crits? Anyway by the time I'd find out it will be nerfed

young nest
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around 2.5x crit damage

worn root
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I like the idea, BeoH 2nd Chance shouldn't kill the pet, but give t.Critdusu

crystal lichen
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You mean you aren't just 1 shotting everyone as Hydrus anyway?

worn root
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BeoH is good because of its synergy with crits
Crits are beyond busted

So yeah, BeoH is actually busted

But not so sure after balance patch that will nerf Prometheus Hands

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But you may be right, Crit might not be the best boost, Beowulf lacks of Dex

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t.Crit+++ will guarantee a critical hit and damage bonus for some turns

t.Dex+++ may decrease the chances to miss and increase the chances to dodge, but nothing sure

formal night
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I oneshot TheMjolnir in his territory def loadout, but if he second chanced into golems fort + dc, that oneshot would become 0 dmg

worn root
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buff yourself, it works better

waxen drum
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not if you're getting zeroed

halcyon patio
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That pesky minus sign working against you

worn root
formal night
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basic attack isn't going to pen much of anything without being buffed out of your mind

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and if you have to get to that point in territory wars you might as well leave

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takes too long

worn root
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yeah I experimented that

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some people complains about high piercing skill/spell with crit
other about zeroing mechanic by stacking ridiculous amount of def/res with HP/Ward regen

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If everything is broken, then nothing is broken

cold elk
sick elbow
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pinging again because this was at a strange hour and likely missed

When should we expect the survey to conclude and results drawn?

dusky sedge
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Not sure if Odie will read this far down, but an "Other" field more often will be helpful since some questions will not have their answers limited to the options, but thanks for considering our feedback ☀

pastel creek
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" We'll be sharing a ton of details about the Balance Patch later this week."

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allegedly

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But that could just be what they've been talking about in chat this week, too lol.

sick elbow
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yes, exactly. They started the survey on Tuesday, don't know if that means today (Friday) is the "later this week" to expect results by. 🙂

runic goblet
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"more to come later this week" doesnt mean the results of the survey

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doesnt have to*

pastel creek
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We could be on Dangy time, and that means between now and next wednesday as "end of week" (Dangy I jest, please don't ban me)

pastel creek
runic goblet
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they also said "more things to come with followers", might just be a blog post about their current plan for that

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or you know, something different

pastel creek
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Hopefully we fitting to find out soon, love reading news about this game.

runic goblet
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i like the style of news we getting atm

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the "here are our thoughts, here are our ideas, tell us what you think"

deep dew
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Balance patches are important, so I've been thinking about the problems and solutions for a long time

I thought it would be good to unlock Refinery and update the convenience function
I think it's better to raise a lower level of users than to lock or lower a higher level of users I think.
According to the World Ranking Board & Regional Ranking Board, there are already many users between 40 and 80 levels

This means that this problem may not be as serious as you think
I have seen a lot of people discuss this issue
They knew I wasn't as worried as I was

And many users want to change other characters
This certainly means that users should be given a second chance to choose again

calm lotus
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I thought it would be good to unlock Refinery and update the convenience function
Personally I just wouldn't mind if Refineries were upgradeable to increase their max material cap

twilit rover
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While present in the survey, ascensions are likely to be tackled at a later date. That said, we got some really useful information out of the survey to compliment some feedback over the last year or so, as well as data we capture.

hushed juniper
twilit rover
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That's fine enough. Players are often fearful of decision making, but we'll still separate this one out. That doesn't mean it will take a long time, we have a lot of good information. It just deserves it's own patch, not to be bundled with this one.

sick elbow
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I definitely am hoping that refineries get less important, not more important, and that respecs ~never be handed out.

livid dome
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On the contrary, I hope theres an option to refund ALs if the ascension system is changed

hushed juniper
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I’d definitely like to see refineries lose importance. At most make it so you can only have one (like the OT specific buildings) and slightly increase its capacity

livid dome
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A singular refinery with more capacity sounds good to me as well

alpine yacht
livid dome
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I just think anyone over a hard cap should get one

alpine yacht
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Yeah. Anyone else, even over soft cap, shouldn’t.

alpine yacht
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I think Odie mentioned something about that? That he didn’t like the idea of people getting the refund to change classes? I know he said something on the topic
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livid dome
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Full refund for anything above cap and nothing else

vague vector
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But why?

livid dome
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There wasn’t any expectation of ALs being capped beforehand and not doing a refund above cap sets a precedence that I don’t like, refunds would only apply to a very small portion of the player base anyways

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I’m not above even the lowest AL so no bias there

vague vector
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What precedence?

livid dome
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Since this is the first time something like this situation has happened, and if NF decides not to do a full refund for people above the cap, why should players invest into any future system if hundreds of hours of grinding goes down the drain because of a potential oversight

vague vector
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What about the ascension refunds getting added Post Gilga nerf?

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And this would be even more dramatic than that, no?

livid dome
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What AL refunds for post gilga nerf

vague vector
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The fact that there’s even a button to do so

livid dome
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?

vague vector
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The reversal option was added because of the Spiked Shield nerfs

IMG_0957.jpg
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I know it’s not a full refund but it was definitely unheard of and never implied it would exist before the nerf was incoming

livid dome
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Oh okay

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Well I admit I did not know that, but i’d say the AL situation would warrant a full refund.

You can still play gilga today, you wouldn’t be able to play above cap in the future if it goes that way

vague vector
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Your initial post says “above the cap” which I read as you were only advocating for players above the cap to get refunds 😅

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I feel like I misread ya now

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For the record I agree with full AL refunds on the impending change

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But I can see Mobile and other players’ point as what should anyone be doing in the meantime

livid dome
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Full refunds above cap 👍 Full Refunds Below Cap 👎

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Sorry if i mistyped

vague vector
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So only players who had the time/luck/ability to break cap get refunds? What about those close?

livid dome
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Yes.

I think the people close to cap shouldn’t get refunds because that’d imply they’d get a refund when they aren’t above cap, which isn’t wanted. Only those above cap should get it

vague vector
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That is an arbitrary line that benefits a small number of players over a change that affects all though?

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And while you can still play Gilga, you can’t spiked shield people like you used to - especially in PvP

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Say the cap is 50 and someone has their class at 49, they don’t like the change but they don’t get to change classes because they didn’t break it?

livid dome
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If theres a small amount of people benefiting from it, It wouldn’t be a detrimental change to most of the player base

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Gilga is plenty playable today, NF went back and improved the playability of spiked shield

gentle dove
livid dome
vague vector
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And I’m saying that there are the vast majority of players who won’t like that.

But I also suppose it all depends on the changes they end up doing and this is all speculation at this point

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Though from a numbers perspective, I see what you’re saying. I think it makes sense even if I don’t like it

livid dome
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Odie himself says he wants to aim toward a solution that respects the effort of players that would be affected by an AL change

vague vector
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Would definitely be the least balance upsetting way to do it

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From a numbers perspective

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Yeah, okay. I’m okay with that if that’s the route. I don’t like it 😛 but I’m okay with it

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I only really have any ALs in 2 classes anyway so not like it affects me much at all

livid dome
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My highest AL is 22, Im okay with a change to ALs if one came to fruition, I’d just like to feel like I wouldn’t have to worry about my grinds going to waste if unexpected complications arise

vague vector
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In a full AL refund though, what’s stopping you from just redoing what you’ve got up to the highest you could? That would be my counterpoint

livid dome
vague vector
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Me. I did. Day 1. xD

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I posted immediately about it and got laughed out of the room

livid dome
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Well you have good foresight then

vague vector
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I’ve played enough MMOs and games online where players go CRAZY on grinding

livid dome
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Fair

vague vector
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It’s why I never thought ascensions should be soft or uncapped because there will always be people who will go above everyone either by luck (RNG rolls of mats), time (flexible job/life situation) or effort (some of the first two plus work)

They’ve turned a lot of players away feeling like an endless arms race. And they’ve kept a small number of extra dedicated players in who feel like they can always progress.

But my hope is that eventually the system gets a hard cap and we get better, more-engaging endgame

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And if that hard cap gets pushed up every so often as new content comes out (similar to MMO level caps) that seems just fine

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And if it gets a hard cap (stat-wise) then maybe you can unlock unique sprites, titles, or more skill slots or weapon proficiencies as they continue to ascend above the hard cap

livid dome
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Yeah I actually like the idea of throwing in some cosmetics post cap that goal motivated people could invest in

runic goblet
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this game is so limited in cosmetics

vague vector
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Honestly even just for those who are giants already, I feel like they should get something whatever changes occur

runic goblet
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whats it gonna be? a sprite or a.. sprite?

vague vector
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Or a title? Unique pet reskin?

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“Ascended Phoenix” only available to those who destroyed ascension caps?

runic goblet
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pet skin okay but titles are laughable

livid dome
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Could be something like a mount, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be too hard to import mount sprites from HoA when they eventually add them to that game to orna, it just wouldn’t have an effect on movement speed ofc

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(Mounts are on their roadmap for HoA for the people who don’t know)

vague vector
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Or an animated class sprite with a cap billowing behind it

runic goblet
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if they add a cap, they better bring something that can be progressed besides it

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if the only reason to login is to catch an event once a month

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its gonna burn out people faster than getting stuck on avalon ore 12 times in a row

livid dome
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Also agree that there needs to be a endgame gameplay loop that players could work on besides AL stuff, might be deep dungeons? Or farming? Idk

dawn timber
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Really miss having a companion but can't use it due to maining summonerđŸ˜©

livid dome
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Nidhogg mount would be sick

vague vector
vague vector
runic goblet
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Ptsd for me as well

sick elbow
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what we'll actually see or not see is... well, yet to be seen 😅 ascension changes won't be part of the beta or upcoming patch so it's at least another several weeks out if not longer

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||been well over a year already since it's been brought up but... +some more weeks oughtta do it?||

twilit rover
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We'll assess as conversation unfolds and this balance patch rolls out. Honestly it's incredibly hard to gauge what the majority desires, as we've heard cries for full refunds repeatedly since initially suggesting we'd tweak the system, then now we're seeing push back on that. We'll just make the decision we're most comfortable with when it comes time - I will say that the survey gave us some super insightful information though, should make things easier to make some decisions on 🙂