Make Berserks More effective for RS

[livid goblet]

Realms are the real Berserkers

Why is that the bonus from berserks is 100% usable by all other classes, while it should be a RS only thing.

The effect of Berserks should be 100% for RS while other classes should only get 50% of the effect

Just like gilga, where it does 100% of damage with ward skills and other classes do much less.

[proud dock]

#💡│suggestions maybe?

[stark lava]

I think you forgot /suggest

[livid goblet]

Wait I wanted others to let it discuss too

[round rapids]

It's weird seeing thieves as the berserker class.

I mean, ever since High Tenacity (which was many years ago), it's been the case.
In most RPGs I'm used to berserkers being like... warriors, I guess. Low armor, high damage, etc.

I guess it's weird that zerks also increase your defenses, for some reason, instead of lowering them.

The theming is just way off. It's its own Orna-theming nowadays, not really relying on "berserk" from other media historically.

As for making it even more of an RS thing by having an RS-specific bonus on it... okay I guess. Not that realmshifters really have damage problems in any situation where they can get triplezerked.

It's fine for theming purposes.

Does RS lose anything by gaining this extra power? Or is this a "buff rs pls" kind of thing?

[stark lava]

Give thiefs innate casted shadows passives

Sneak Attack: Deal additional damage against targets depending on the amount of negative statuses on them

[rough crest]

Personally Id love to just have access to Berserk 1, 2 and 3 without needing to rely on pets, items or spec swapping.

[surreal crescent]

But why? It's not really.. useful in any way...seeing as dark damage isn't gonna be used over elementless or faction damage

[stark lava]

Was referring to casted shadows' mechanics more than the actual skill, hence passive and the next line

[surreal crescent]

Oh well that makes this a little awkward for me then..(that actually sounds kinda good)

Except in raids because you know raids and their immunities

[stark lava]

Just steal heretic ara's

[river basin]

RS is going in a weird place atm, only balance patch will show what NF has in mind for us. The fomor gear was making sense to everyone else but thief gear is just debuffs, which doesnt really work because in raids you cant debuff, and in towers you cannot aoe debuff enemies, so its not a route you can take. And it has no synergy atm with RS whatsoever. Forcing berserking down RS's throat would be a easy way out to make thief players happy for a while, but i dont see it doing anything other than just making heretics mad and bandaiding wrong issues with RS

[glass socket]

I feel like assassin spec should have inherent all the debuffs except doom and the special named ones in it's attack ability.

All the temp ones of course

[river basin]

Bit offtopic, but bring RS back to thief roots: AoE Poison bomb, causing miasma to every opponent

[robust hinge]

At that point Berserker and Raider specs, (Fey) Chimera and Atlas pets, arena and nagg shrooms would literally become useless, unless you mean to give realms a passive that zerks them, rather than give them the ability to cast them willingly

[rough crest]

Yup

[robust hinge]

Yup.. to what? :p

[acoustic pulsar]

if you make berserk a more effective on RS then make DC more effective on Deity

[livid goblet]

That's good

[acoustic pulsar]

so we both agreed to leave nothing to heretics and I like that

[rough crest]

Yup that it would make those specs / pets etc redundant for RS.

I appreciate Im probably in the minority with this opinion (especially when considering players who are not RS) but I would love to have access to the Berserks without needing to use my pet slot or spec slot.

Id even be happy to just having a reliable stream of Zerk mushrooms and Smelly mushrooms. For me the Berserks are essential to getting the most out of RS and I feel like those spells are just a bit inaccessible at the moment, apart from in dungeons.

[hollow garden]

Ultima should be Deity only like Gilgamesh Spiked Shield.

[livid goblet]

Agree

[brave ivy]

It's weird seeing thieves as the berserker class.

That has bothered me about the RS design for a long time. Just thematically it doesn't feel right. I would like a proper thief endgame. I guess dorado helps a bit, but it's all over the place with warrior themes too. I don't know if there is really any fix for it though, RS gameplay feels settled at this point and I think a lot of invested people would be quite unhappy with any unberserkering of it.

edit: Though, if I had to make a silly suggestion that I doubt would ever be approved, I would say just stick high tenacity in the berserker/raider specs with the zerk buffs and let anyone who wants to be a berserker be one.

[robust hinge]

What I meant is that if you give zerk spells to RS then other classes will get the spells too, so all the other sources of zerk will be useless

[hollow garden]

[livid goblet]

That would make every other class too strong.

[brave ivy]

Which has a pretty strong implication that RS is kind of in poor shape in any content where they can't leverage zerks/HT

[surreal crescent]

Probably why they said to make zerks like spiked shield for rs. Less effective when used by other classes.
I personally think this would require either a new set of skills, or the removal of both berserker and raider specs (not particularly a pleasing option)

But a new set of skills sounds interesting, maybe make them like summons and calls, where any other class other than realm would have to spend 70 turns for 1 to succeed

[acoustic pulsar]

It's a tricky path to follow. If you make it happen nothing will protect you from having all+++ nerfed on RS because it's a Deity thing. Then every other classes while need something to compensate on those losses.

[livid goblet]

Towers? PvP?

AoE?

[livid goblet]

Well no more power creep

[surreal crescent]

Deific is a skill from the t9 God class tho, not a "deity skill", it's a deity passive.
Ultima is a deity skill, so make it's damage bonuses far far less effective with every other class
Heretic had the fey unstable spells, make those ineffective with other classes
Realmstrikes should be less effective with classes that aren't realmshifter

Then, instead of making zerks less effective for other classes, make them more effective for realm while remaining the same for other classes. I.e, more self damage, bigger buffs, but they don't stack with other non zerk buffs

[livid goblet]

Well Realmstrikes is already not that effective when other classes use it

[surreal crescent]

Believe heretic corvus could utilize them well

Need to try tho

[final needle]

Having a 15% innate miss chance with Realmstrikes already makes it sub-optimal of other classes

[river basin]

That last paragraph would just mean more dmg for RS. And problem with zerk isnt the lack of raw damage

[livid goblet]

Oh true

But that's a heretic thief class then it should be okay

[brave ivy]

they don't stack with other non zerk buffs

Could you clarify what you mean by this? Lose other buffs when using zerk?

[surreal crescent]

They wouldn't stack with the regular buffs tho, zerk 1 would only stack with zerk 2 and 3, and vice versa and so on.

[river basin]

NF could give a zerk5 as a RS passive and it still wouldnt touch the core issues, which is the forced redlining

[surreal crescent]

But it's not a realmshifter

[livid goblet]

Well

[final needle]

It should be the same for Dorado with SS or Chained

[livid goblet]

Oh true

[acoustic pulsar]

anyway it will never happen as it would f up lower tiers

[surreal crescent]

Isn't rstrikes1 1 15%?

Then rstrikes2 10%

[final needle]

Oh yeah mb, the 20% is the crit

but either way that doesn't take out the fact that it's innate, having a still a miss chance based on dex comparison

[livid goblet]

Lower tiers don't use zerks

[livid goblet]

20%

And rs2 is 15%

[surreal crescent]

Not lose. They just don't stack with them.
You still have att^ and att^^
1.25x1.5 for 1.875x
Zerks, wouldn't further affect that, they'd be their own separate 1.5x1.5x1.25 for 2.8125x
Currently 3 zerks and att^/^^ would give you 5.27x

[acoustic pulsar]

They do. That's why zerk is a T5 spec.

[final needle]

Being the best spec for T5 for every class

[surreal crescent]

Lower tiers can't manage zerks, therefore they either take advice on not using them or learn the hard way

[brave ivy]

Meaning that you just get the higher stat, or that zerks buff would be additive with other buffs?

[surreal crescent]

They just wouldn't affect att^/^^ or the t.att^/^^/^^^

[acoustic pulsar]

They can't because you decided so ? I used it and it was easy to manage with osmostrike.

[river basin]

Instead of forcing more zerk for RS, NF should for example add a passive "every time you heal, you deal damage equal to 10x of that heal" and change recharge to scale with damage dealt.

That way RS could juggle with their low health, it would remove the accessory forcing, and allow players to swap between quad edge/Realmshift+zerk as their preferred redlining abilities. Sure if would kill bloodshift but it would allow RS to be about actual choice making and not becoming status proof and hiding behind 100% ward

[final needle]

They totally can, speaking from experience, Zerk 2 is a bit too much, but only zerk 1 is good enough, then at T7 you can change specs so you get Warrior's Dance or similar

[brave ivy]

Arcanist can manage berserk fine just using lunge for recharge

[surreal crescent]

Must be fun being among the exceptions and thinking everyone is having the same time as you did

[final needle]

So esentially a reverse Gilgamesh? Instead of losing ward to deal dmg, and waiting to recharge, gain hp to deal dmg, waiting for zerk do pump it down

[river basin]

Yeah

Essentially

It would make RS the high risk high reward class it should be

[acoustic pulsar]

Oh I was an exception ? Where are your stats ?

[surreal crescent]

Over using stronger skills? Either way. This isn't even a lower tier discussion, didn't we mention that the skills would be either moved to rs and raider/berserker wiped? Or that we'd need a new set of skills for rs, in which case we wouldn't even touch the zerks

[rough crest]

Sure, I see what you mean. To be honest I wouldnt have any problem with other classes having Berserk as well. It would be slightly less useful for them without HT but I wouldnt be bothered if they had it as well.

[final needle]

Don't agree with that, since you should still use Dot immunities for it to work, being the same as it was but with only being able to deal dmg while healing

[surreal crescent]

Stats for what 💀
Asking for stats when it makes no sense to do so due to the circumstances of said stats isn't a move you'd see often

[final needle]

It's a good Idea, but I don't love it

[river basin]

You dont need to use dot immunities, because you dont need to drop to 1hp everytime

Using them would probably be one way of playing

[final needle]

I don't need to drop to 1 hp now either, but I should do it

[river basin]

But for example lugus+using RS at 500hp would need to be better than not lugus at 1hp

[river basin]

The problem is that current RS doesnt heal, so without any heal you cant take any dots whatsoever. With heal as a part of their rotation RS could take the dmg from dots without the dot needing instant removal.

But i might make a suggestion about it, this is hardly the right place

[livid goblet]

There are so many statuses which can kill RS very easily, blight, stun, freeze, Paralyse.

Toxic, curse

You always need panacea for all that

[final needle]

Totally agree with Sore

[river basin]

Fair point

[final needle]

Getting damaged by DOT's isn't the only problem

[surreal crescent]

Stun, freeze, paralyze all don't inflict self damage, as well as any elemental blight other than drakeblight (although we do have drakes blood for any and all blights)

[acoustic pulsar]

Briny + wisp heal cover pretty much everything

[brave ivy]

stun, freeze shut down mystic feather, which is not as reliably a death sentence as a dot while redlining, but can still be pretty fatal

confusion isn't a big problem now, but it can be in the future - it can override item usage, so you can be killed off by another dot with no ability to cure it

[surreal crescent]

Yh but full redline does make me 0 out a lot of things, once golems and Barrier are up.
Pretty much most things that aren't Morrigan or worlds end

[final needle]

With Briny + wisp you can get dealt Burn + freeze (or similar) and fail to do wisp, adding rng to the survival of RS

[livid goblet]

They can stop you from doing any action and that can lead to you getting kileld

[surreal crescent]

True. But they're not as bad as not seen Phoenix procced blight (happens once every decade) and then dying because of it

[final needle]

It's not as bad, but it still takes away your only defensive passive, it would be like putting bloodshift into a Heretic, or take out ward regen for Gilga. Make it be enough turns and they'll have a downfall

And reminder that they still have second chance after that

[short scaffold]

Disagree. Ss and cs being more effective for gilga was a mistake. I'm all for buffing realm but not by nerfing other classes

This is class warfare and it helps no one

[acoustic pulsar]

it only helps heretics who're the real outlier

[final needle]

I think that some skills should be type specific, meaning: If a class can wield the equipment of X (for example warrior), it should be able to use effectively the spells of X (in this case, warrior being SS, CS, etc...) This could be usefull since Dorado (maybe deity & Beo(?)) would be able to use SS + CS. Berserk would be used efectively by RS, Gilga Ursa, Heretic Corvus.

I like Heretic corvus being able to use Berserk since it has some play with the Corvus passive

Deity's spells, as it's a polivalent class, could be use effectively by all classes

[robust hinge]

Imma say it: I don't like when spells are stronger on one class than another.
The entire appeal of orna from tiers 1 through 9 is how you can mix and match classes' spells to make things work the way you want them to.

I understand making summons weaker, but I do wish they still had 100% summon chance even on non summoners.
I understand making SS weaker, since other classes managed to have more ward than gilga, and did more damage.
I understand making Calls weaker, since all classes would be benefitting from a Beo-specific gimmick.

But I don't particularly like them

[final needle]

I don't like it either having locked skills, being why I tried to open it as much as I could. At the moment, Dorado can't use SS or CS even though it would come in handy to him, and the only thing regarding calls is that it has a chance to fail, being Beo the only class that can have permanent call, since it's a Valhallan skill

We already have locked skills everywhere, directly or indirectly. We have mag based skills and att based skills, being locked by the damage they deal with our set-up. Magic classes (& deity) can use magic spells to do damage, meanwhile melee classes (& deity) can use attack spells to do damage

The only exception would be Beo, being a Valhallan class with Hybrid monster, that should also be able to use all skills

[short scaffold]

Yes, we should make everyone poor so that we could stop income inequality. That's the only way.

Forget about buffing melee AOE, just nerf magic AOE

[robust hinge]

To be fair, as much as that would suck, that is how you prevent power creep

Though at some point a little power creep for the sake of player satisfaction is alright

[short scaffold]

Sure. But then I hope people remain consistent in what they ask. We've seen people that are against other game balancing nerfs that affect their class while arguing for nerfs to other classes.

This proposal in particular (nerfing berserk for non realms) is weird to say the least

Realm is the only t10 class with high tenacity which is already an indirect zerk buff

And berzerk isn't a realm skill. It comes form subclasses, gear and followers

[final needle]

What could be made is have everyone still the same buff for zerk while giving RS a 150% or a 200% of the base value.

The name is not "nerf all other classes other than RS".

[short scaffold]

That is a smart way of putting things. And I'm ok with a passive for realm or one of it's celestials that improves berzerk

It's not what is written in OP topic though

[final needle]

Shhhh, we don't talk about that 😉 xDD

[short scaffold]

Buffers unite!

And yes realm really needs a buff or two

[final needle]

The thing i don't like about it is that it increases numbers just for the sake of it, it doesn't change almost anything, since if some things happen everything would be in the same spot

[short scaffold]

If pvp gets separated from pve I could see realm getting a pve exclusive steadfast like skill

[final needle]

As a somewhat newer T10, I don't like the newer bosses in lower tiers having increased hp, as I have suffered from farming Orochi as a T8, or Tatzelwurms in my alt at T5

The only thing that makes these raids have more hp is the increased power of T10/T11 players

And I can say those things because I have lived through it

[short scaffold]

That's the thing. If people try to balance the game around the 1% strongest players, lower tiers and early t10 will suffer the most

[final needle]

But that's exactly what happens when only buffs are made!

[short scaffold]

Increasing raid hp is not a buff though

[final needle]

Increased raid hp is a countermeasure of more players being able to do more damage

[robust hinge]

currently zerks give x1.5 x1.25 and 1.5x in damage, resulting in x2.81 damage
If you were to increase realm zerk efficiency by 50%, it'd make them give x1.75 x1.375 and x1.75 in damage, resulting in x4.21 damage
If you were to increase realm zerk efficiency by 100%, it'd make them give x2.0 x1.5 and x2.0 in damage, resulting in x6 damage

[short scaffold]

And I don't want heretic buffs. My class is probably op. Just not hard nerfs like 50% effective zerk

My stance has been, I'm okay with little nerfs over times instead of large nerfs

[final needle]

Thanks for the numbers, even though it wasn't a real suggestion, in reality I was just stating that there are other ways to do it ❤️

[robust hinge]

Oh yeah for sure, I just like giving numbers. It makes suggestions feel more tangible :)

On how, per example, doubling zerk efficiency more than doubles realm damage

which is kinda funky to think about

[final needle]

Decreasing by 50% the efficiency of zerks would give around a x1.75 dmg instead of a x2.81(?)

[final needle]

Math is great!

[short scaffold]

4.21 extra damage on realm doesn't sound extreme. I'd go less (extra 10-25%) effectiveness. But then again I like ultima so we may have different views

In fact the only problem with thay 4.21 damage would be that it would be achived at lv 225 without gear.

[robust hinge]

it'd be 1.25x1.125x1.25, so yeah, 1.75ish
🌈 math 🌈

[short scaffold]

*i meant the main problem, not the only problem

[final needle]

You'd still need all the mushrooms as a newer T10, a luxury that not all players can have

You can also go raider/berserk, but that means mana problems until 235 for bloodshift+ 100% crit, also having 20% innate miss chance with Realmstrikes

[robust hinge]

Most t10 classes have issues starting out, so the waiting for 235 is probably okay

gilga is very gear dependant otherwise he cannot deal good SS damage nor regen ward fast enough, heretic's spells don't actually crit until later, realm has the bloodshift issue, deity is basically just Ultima™️ when it comes to skills

GS and Beo are the exceptions with pretty good introductory loadouts, and even then, summoner sucks at raiding until BP or Rhada 2

[final needle]

I had GS classline Kingdom members that were able to 33% Morri at T8... Now they're at T10 xD

[robust hinge]

Batallions is a hell of a drug

Mind you, it takes a long ass time to do that

[final needle]

It's still a shit ton of XP for that tier xD

[robust hinge]

oh absolutely

[livid goblet]

Lol that would take them to t9 very fast

[final needle]

That did take them to T10 very fast

[surreal crescent]

Bruh

[dark dome]

Every realm suggestion is always so cringey. Never focused on how to improve realm. It’s always more about how to make everyone else bad. That’s prolly why NF hasn’t done anything. Y’all very inconsistent and don’t really care for anyone else’s experience. Hard to take things seriously like that

[robust hinge]

That's not a very constructive thing to say. If you don't have anything of value to say, it'd be best not to say anything at all, rather than insult people.
Additionally, regarding the NF point - Suggestions and discussions aren't correlated to NF action, and blaming people's opinions for "NF's inaction" is both nonsensical and straight up rude.

[dark dome]

I feel it is constructive. And not rude. Because it’s not coming from a bad place. I’m not lying. But the focus is always off. Every single realm post is like this. I just want to see them get serious about it. Nobody does that, nobody is focused on making sure someone else’s gaming experience is affected. No player has fault for realmshifter’s problems.

Just focus on the deficits of the class, and how you want to take it where it needs to be. Instead of bringing everyone down to “x” level.

I honestly don’t think it’s unfair to say.

[robust hinge]

I understand what you mean, but there are better ways of wording your opinion than saying things such as "every realm suggestion is cringey", and directly attacking people by telling them that they don't care for others' experiences.

So yeah, please take a step back, and rephrase things. It can potentially be constructive, but it very much is rude.

[dark dome]

Could be a better way to say it. But I’ve been saying it better for a while. And it still goes on. I know you guys see it happen.

So you’re really saying that they care about someone else’s gaming experience? But ok. Maybe I am too straightforward. I know and the people that interact with me most knows it doesn’t come from a bad place. But yeah. I’ll take a step back. But please realms, take it seriously and focus on your class

[round rapids]

Nerfs are perfectly acceptable to talk about.

Buffing everybody all the time is just power creep, and NF isn't a large enough studio to be constantly reworking and creeping pve up to compensate for the patch-after-patch power that players keep getting.

You can care about someone's experience and talk about nerfs. It is a worse experience when the game is made easier than it should be, and when the game requires less thought than it should.

[dark dome]

I agree. But all the time? About everything? Read the post. Every 3 messages someone mentions another class. I think in this specific case about realm, it’s not so much nerf everyone. It’s more like it’s falling behind.

But I do agree with there has to be certain difficulty. 200%.

[round rapids]

"Falling behind" is perfectly acceptable reasoning in a game where changing class is free. You might say the archetype is falling behind, and for people that enjoy that archetype, they do so knowing that they're playing at a relative disadvantage.

Or they realize that they could swap class, farm, and then swap back to what they actually want to play.

[dark dome]

Yeah. Apparently that’s not an option here. I respect the people that do that though. That stick with their class through thick and thin. But then in that case, there will be rough times. And gotta ride it out. Not put everyone on blast every day.

But. I said I’d step back.

[edgy turtle]

you get berserk by using mushrooms
so why do i feel like Deities should be the ones benefiting more from berserks since their class fits more with the... mushroom vibe 😆

also deities are unstable
side effect from too many berserks

[robust hinge]

I'm... not sure I follow

[final needle]

Power creep also has problems regarding mob/raid hp in lower tiers, something that I have already adressed above!

[short scaffold]

Changin class is not free because of ascension levels.

Can't switch from a class with 40AL to one with 0AL and not feel bad about it

Hence the need for all classes to be balanced

[edgy turtle]

well the main post sais other classes then thief should have reduced berserk effect
i think deity is the class to benefit the most of berserks since we can get berserks using mushrooms and deity has "unstable" omnimancy passive and i associate that unstable effect with the mushrooms use side effect(-hp dot)

[short scaffold]

Mushrooms are a beowulf thing though

[edgy turtle]

i think you are right, lore wise 🤔

[robust hinge]

I can't say I see the connection but who am I to judge

[edgy turtle]

connect this with the main post of this thread

"the effect of berserk should be 100% for RS while other classes should only get 50% of the effect"

connecting the effect of prolongued smelly and berserk mushrooms, Deities gained the "Unstable" Omnimancy passive

while lore wise, Beowulf is the real beneficiary of the use of those specified mushrooms, thus gaining the ability to "talk" and be one with his pet(totally mental imo)

this is my response and honest opinion to the main post

also i should add that i think Beowulf should not be affected by the berserk dots
they kinda became immune thanks to all that use of the specified mushrooms

[short scaffold]

No dude, it's cause they love followers so they are vegetarians

They can't eat meat so they eat mushrooms

What are you going on
about?

[edgy turtle]

if you search on google what does berserk mean, you will find in it's description the terms wild and frenzy
what is the best way to describe our beloved Beowulf? A wild beast who is one with his pet, living in the wild forests where you can find those mushroom with berserk as effect?

wdym?

[final needle]

You find berserk mushrooms in arena, meaning that they might grow in places without much vegetation and a lot of hate is formed 🤔

[short scaffold]

I only got an eminem song from google when I search for it

[edgy turtle]

someone brought them there
who do you think it comes out of the forests with mushrooms in his backpack and goes into arena?
Beowulfs ofc

[final needle]

There can be different ways the lore can be thought

[robust hinge]

'Aight everyone, enough sidetracking, if y'all wanna keep going with the sillies I won't stop you, but please move over to #👋│general or #off-topic

[edgy turtle]

yes guys, keep your posts related to the main one

if you have a different opinion regards the main post or if you relate to it, i would love to hear your thoughts

@round rapids what do you think?
lore wise, is Beowulf more fitting to the berserks buffs then RS is?

[final needle]

We've already made different points throughout the post. I personally don't like the idea of Zerks being less usefull in other classes, but It's a change that has already been used and could (I am not saying should) be made.

Another one is increasing zerk's effectiveness in RS instead of lowering the effect on other classes. I personally don't like this idea either since power creep and makes lower tier bosses/raids have more hp (Orochi, Tatzelwurm, etc..), hurting low-tier players

Another one is keeping Zerk's to THIEF, and opening the scale of all Class locked skills, meaning that for example, Dorado would be ableto use SS and CS, , Gilga Ursa, Heretic Corvus + Deity (MAYBE not only ursa) could make effective use of 100% Zerk, and similar

[muted roost]

Realm should have more access to berserks, but berserks aren't solely a Realmshifter thing. It is (or should be) the class that uses them the best/most often, but it's a well-established concept prior to HT.

Some sort of berserk-granting effect built into High Tenacity and/or a new skill that grants a new berserk-esque effect seems appropriate to me

[final needle]

We already had the giant weapon granting another berserk through a stance, but it passes through high tenacity

And also new skills cramp up the low ammount of spell slots RS has

[short scaffold]

I still don't see the conection between power creep and <t10 bosses hp?

[muted roost]

separately, berserks should have actual tradeoffs to using them, but currently with easy access to healing effects (life siphon, ashen ruby) their only downside is mitigated entirely. that shouldn't be the case, probably. HT is an entire core passive dedicated to allowing easier use of berserks. life siphon is as well, so that's fine-ish, but ashen rubies are not right

[round rapids]

imo no.

Way way back, zerk1 was attack-damage up only (not magic), so I still feel like some part of zerk is attached to attacks.
Like I said in my first post in this thread, once Realm got HT it became the defacto zerk themed class.

Up until we got easy sources of hp regen (like, very recently -- amities mid last year, ymir staff of zaltys last august, and then arisen candy cane last december), Beo was both the worst user of zerks and had the most difficult time managing them.

Pure lore -- no class seems really "zerky". None of them are described as mad, wild, crazy, etc.

[final needle]

As far as I've seen it, the newer event bring Raids that have been increasing in hp, specially the ones that can be farmed for materials or consumables. My guess is that they have more hp so players that have more ease at farming the boss have a bit more difficult time

[final needle]

Maybe another possible thing would be adding a pseudo bloodshift to Berserks? It would have literally no impact on bloodshift RS while it would have some impact on pre-bloodshift RS.

The bigger hit would be made to non-Realmshifter classes

[short scaffold]

Bloodshift built in zerk is so many lvs of wrong

So non realm can't use chimera/raider/mushroom/etc to do any form of dungeon or raids

Serious question, why? As others have said, why do you want to take away a significant part of the game from other classes.

If realm is falling behind, kust buff realm

Don't jump through hoops to nerf every single other class

(Not you specifically of course)

[round rapids]

Oh, I realize what happened.

The original OP (the thing I responded to at the start) was that realm would have a zerk bonus (i.e. zerk is the same for everyone, and realm gets like 50% more zerk boost). Hence my saying:

Does RS lose anything by gaining this extra power? Or is this a "buff rs pls" kind of thing?

[final needle]

I think I'm one that is trying to give at least some play to other classes while giving RS some sort of boost and not go into power creep

In actuallity, what I want is just having equality, either bringing RS up (bad since Power creep on all classes), bringing all the meta classes down (aka casters) (bad since it shouldn't be the way to approach things), or somewhere in between

[short scaffold]

Bringing RS up is not power creep

[final needle]

It opens the door to power creep

[short scaffold]

There was a door?

[final needle]

It is not instantly, but it's a thin line for it to go in there

[robust hinge]

Buffing anything without giving it a downside is the definition of power creep

[short scaffold]

No it isn't but ok

[robust hinge]

realm "falling behind" is due to powercreep on other classes

[round rapids]

Separately -- yeah it's kinda fucked how easily everyone runs tri-zerk nowadays except for beo and I guess DeityUrsa now (low-hp passive classes without HT). Ashen rubies to blame for this almost entirely on stuff like gilga, GS.

Zerk doesn't itself feel special anymore. Chimera weaponry, AImagination for mages, those goddamn Smelly Shrooms that deleted an entire specialization 😆

But that's a different thing. That's not a class balance or class interplay thing; that's questioning... the zerks. Ease of access, ease of ignoring downside, etc. Different thread.

[short scaffold]

Or it could be because realm lacks steadfast and 2nd chance for pve

[final needle]

John here again to save my day! Thank you ❤️ xD

[short scaffold]

Are we now against smelly mushroom as well

[round rapids]

It's a ratchet and it's unfortunate.

Everyone wants to be buffed like someone else got buffed, and then any talk of nerfs gets shouted down emotionally.
It's how we got here, by people begging for casual 1.2xs, 1.3xs, and so on every patch. "He got X, I should get X too!"

[round rapids]

There is no "we" here. I speak for myself.

[robust hinge]

And yet, realm used to be one of the best endless classes, as well as a fantastic raider.
Realm's kit didn't get change, so why is it worse?
Because others are better.
That's power creep.

[short scaffold]

Ok let's say power creep exists. What caused it? Was it class skills and passives that existed for a long time.

Or was it new gear, new adornments, AMITIES, AL

[round rapids]

What caused it?
Primarily NF, adding multipliers and not giving them appropriate downsides.
Secondarily, people asking for power after power also without asking for the power to be offset by any kind of downside or trade.

[short scaffold]

And if power creeping is so bad from NF point of view

[stark lava]

Yeah, mushrooms are smelly. Yuck.

But more on topic, while I agree that realm under peforms now compared to other classes, I would rather this be addressed with something that freshens up the class. I genuinely believe that the design mentality is different in orna. What worked before definitely doesn't work now. RS probably needs a rework as something else, especially with the introduction of Starstruck and the like in which there's no immunities for, and how redlining encourages ward/defensive gameplay moreso than glass cannon builds like swash and sequencer

[final needle]

In lower tiers, the existance of the summoner classline has rendered almost all other classes sub-optimal for raids.

That would be power creep also i guess(?)

(Sorry, english is not my first langauge, so a bit hard to follow xD)

[short scaffold]

Why do items keep getting buffed

Why is it that every new event has to have a bunch of new gear that needs to get buffed so it becomes sometimes too strong

[round rapids]

You'll have to ask NF's opinion on it. Can speculate on it, but the only truth would come from their mouths.

[robust hinge]

That is similar to power creep but not quite the same thing.
Summoner is the newest class, and very different from all others, to boot.
Summoner wasn't buffed so much that it became better than others, It was just made that way and has had a hard time being adjusted so far.
NF are aware summoner is overtuned at lower tiers and will be toning it down.

[stark lava]

Because the easiest way to create the new interesting thing is to introduce the new strongest thing. Whether or not this was intentional by NF though is something only they can say

And with a monthly content cycle, it's a concernly fast pace

[robust hinge]

They clearly don't want thing to be blatantly strong (damona)

[final needle]

That makes sense, so if it were for an update on X giving it more power then it would become power creep if i'm correct?

[muted roost]

I have disliked them since they were introduced purely due to them rendering raider, an entire specialisation, useless. I'd asked for Raider improvements for a while after that change, but they weren't talked about much, and no one really seemed to care so I'd eventually stopped talking about it

[short scaffold]

I don't mind power creep as long as it is fun. I do mind class inbalance. I main heretic but I think realm should be plain buffed with no downside what so ever

[robust hinge]

If a new item comes out that is straight up better than the previous best item, with no downsides, that is powercreep.
If a class gets a buff with no downside, that is powercreep (though in this case it's usually to offset other powercreep, instead of nerfing everyone else)

[stark lava]

Give raider redline or crit strike build up like them shadeblades

Ggez

[muted roost]

if smelly shrooms are to exist, and are to replace raider's only use (berserk 3) then Raider needs improvements, and has needed improvements. its place atm is just for folks who don't have/don't want to use smelly shrooms. "don't want to use smelly shrooms" usually means: 1) endless so raider swaps are easy, or 2) the content is so hilariously easy (eg. most wrbs, krbs) that the buff does not matter

[robust hinge]

Give raider the old assassin passive

[round rapids]

Raider just needs a new shtick. He got replaced by a consumable. 😅

[short scaffold]

But that is what is causing power creep. The constant churning out of things that work with multipliers

[muted roost]

I've suggested a bunch of stuff for raider over the years. I'd suggested:

• giving it more berserks than 3 (iirc I suggested mainly 1 + 3)
• a unique "enrage" passive that increases stats based on the debuffs/DoTs its inflicted with (so berserk counts, def-- counts etc.)
• unique skills
• reducing the HP malus (not my favourite idea. i like the thematic HP loss)

i liked the enrage passive the most, personally

[short scaffold]

But what I see discusses is nerfing previous staples of game play

[stark lava]

Chance to double strike when wearing no chestpiece

[muted roost]

giving it baby resurgence is okay, but that's realistically just a realmshifter passive. no one else is redlining with berserks, not even beo/h due to recharge

[short scaffold]

I'm all for curbing new events powerlvs. In fact I woupd love if only 1/5 new event brought good gear

There's too much fomo

[stark lava]

Couldn't agree more

[muted roost]

i'd rather more accessibility to events than to make events inherently ignorable

creating content that won't spark excitement is, sadly, a waste of time. it is an RPG. players are motivated by "good shit". novelty (or even fun) won't cause widespread and long-term engagement. the game is goal-oriented

[stark lava]

Give me more than two fucking quests in a non-event content update

[muted roost]

ORs for more access to event stuff, as one example, has been very good to curb FOMO. mini-events are also spectacular for this

[robust hinge]

OR's a godsend

[short scaffold]

Events take time away from fun stuff like AL farming and tower farming

[robust hinge]

it fixes so many issues

[stark lava]

OR is great.

[muted roost]

Towers could totally include event bosses, as well. iirc the lore of towers is your past challenges manifested once more, yeah? seems perfect for smacking event bosses (eg. ymir!) in

[robust hinge]

we already have dioscuri in the towers

[stark lava]

Tower of Ymir Eos

[robust hinge]

I'm all up for more event bosses and event raids in there

[final needle]

I think the making event's more accessible is already being made with Other realms. I think it wouldn't hurt making it a monthly event.

[muted roost]

i'd love to see ymir, or even this month's fomorian bosses included in encounters

[mental crown]

Berserk Ymir pls odie

[muted roost]

OR is monthly (though, not for Aethric for some reason). It was originally intended to be twice a month, but I don't know what happened over the past almost-a-year when OR was first tested that it's slowed down so hard

[short scaffold]

With 4 ymir buddies

[mental crown]

i cAnT beAt tHiS guY hE hAs toO muCh hP

[robust hinge]

OR fixes mat issues, it fixes FOMO issues, it fixes ascended people have no challenge issues, it's great

[short scaffold]

Ymir is fine. He just wards himself. Chillest dragon of all

[muted roost]

I honestly think that a Ymir/mountainman fight with them having def/res-- would be awesome. the statuses means that anyone can damage them more easily, but it's still a damage check. that's a-ok for towers, i'd think

[muted roost]

I agree. I just wish Aethric finally got it. I don't know what the hold up is, but it's been really disappointing to miss the past few OR runs =/

[robust hinge]

This has deviated a lot from the main topic. However this is a very interesting topic, so I made an #1086430987623346327 thread to move it over to

[round rapids]

So...

Anyway, what is the goal of this thread? What problems is it focused on?

It sounds like the original complaint or concern is that zerks are a "realmshifter theme", and that instead, everybody uses them.
If Realms are better (numerically) at zerking than everyone else, that would be a shift toward realm away from others.

---

If Realm is given a straight zerk boost -- does it need it? It already endlesses and raids like a champ. The damage is certainly there. Zerks don't really effect pvp too much, nor towers due to their short duration.

If others are given a straight zerk malus -- do they need it? How much power can be shaved from the other classes in order to solidify realm's zerk identity? To make space for realm to be appreciably different.

Instead of power, should we talk about access to zerks? Right now we have some gear, consumables, skills on specs, and a follower. Should Realm have special zerk access, since he's thematically aligned with it?

[muted roost]

doing gods work, mate. thanks for keeping the forum organised and moderated

congrats on moderator btw, never said it

richly deserved

[final needle]

Totally agreee

[stark lava]

Yeeeee

[muted roost]

If Realm is given a straight zerk boost -- does it need it?
no, I don't think Realm needs an increase to berserk effects necessarily. I think it needs more access to them so it can utilise that aspect better

If others are given a straight zerk malus -- do they need it?
yes, I do think they do. berserks are undoubtedly powerful effects. 1.5x damage, 1.25x stats and 1.5x stats are all powerful effects that are permanent and stack with everything. no doubt 1.5x damage is the most useful in the current metagame, but all 3 tiers are strong. they should either have more downsides, or their downsides should matter

Instead of power, should we talk about access to zerks?
berserk access should be pretty restricted. chimera weapons and specs are good, though I have a long-standing gripe with chimera weapon proc rates (mostly useless outside of hordes). smelly shrooms weren't a good addition with the current state of things, i don't think. 1.5x stats is too much to hand out for any build, and it doesn't have a cost beyond needing a panacea afterwards.

that idea of berserks having a lessened bloodshift effect was pretty neat imo. each tier of berserk reduces healing by a certain amount 🤔

percentage-based cuts to healing would force heavier investment into healing effects...

or it would, if ashen rubies didn't exist as easy methods of %damage as lifesteal. any sort of healing/health-based downside for berserks gets sidestepped fairly hard by ashen rubies imo. you could crank the malus high enough (say 80%, or something) and then it'd counter rubies fairly well. at that point though, may as well zero it 😅 efforts made to counter ashen rubies would render all non-ruby/lifesiphon healing useless

[tight sable]

I agree that zerk should have some more synergies with realm.

But I think it is important to note having zerk change so much changes pet meta. They are a nested issue. I don’t want to even consider pet conversations here, but I think it is an important note.

[final needle]

Another thing that has come to my mind is reversing bloodshift's downside with Berserk's. Making bloodshift deal some DOT while Berserks aside from giving more dmg or stats, they would stop a % of healing, up to 100% with all 3 or similar.

that would make RS able to use Berserks as a redline method and bloodshift a method to lower themselves to 1 hp, fixing problems for continuous crit of corvus and giving counterplay to other classes by addind bloodshift into the mix, making them play into heal & dot

Bloodshift could continue being a t. effect not needing it to be permanent since the player is at 1hp, even though I think it would be nice if it counted as a positive status effect so it lasts longer for other classes as well

Obviously the numbers I've said can and should change for the sake of balance

[blazing canyon]

How long have ya been playing this game? You wanna remove zerking from all classes except what you mainly play? How's that fair?

A buff is a buff regardless who uses it. Yes RS is most effective with it due to the fact thief class line supposed to be a glass canon. The high dex makes up for lack res and def. High tenacity making them the ultimate damage machine not having to worry about killing themselves and plus with mystic feather it works great.

Did ya ever think that other classes use zerk for high damage output with out the safety net of high tenacity to do stupid amounts of damage?

Hell a triple zerk defic channel and t.mag is pretty much gonna finish whatever fight they're in (for the most bit. Not counting all raids) be it pvp endless or just that one random overworld mob they don't like. Even if they used drain they still won't die. And will have another hit and if they're heretic and use whatever there's a strong chance that whatever they hit will trigger life siphon as well.

[round rapids]

except what you mainly play
I don't play Realmshifter at all.

[blazing canyon]

I was talking to the one who posted this

[round rapids]

Thought you were responding to this. 🤷‍♂️
Anyway, accusing people of only arguing for their own benefit is pretty awful.

[rough crest]

I agree that, at least for me personally, the issue is just access to Zerks. Im 100% fine with all other classes getting the exact same benefits from Zerk that we do. I just want to actually be able to use them without sacrificing my spec slot / pet slot or needing to rely on items that cant be consistently farmed.

I would honestly be happy if there was just a way to reliably farm mushrooms. At the moment I have to wait for an event that drops them, go ham on said event, and then ration my stash overly judiciously until the next event.

[livid goblet]

That would add to power creep.

Mushrooms shouldn’t be easy to get

[rough crest]

I guess it might be power creep depending on how we define it. But if all classes benefit from it then it's not putting any one class at a relative disadvantage.

And I dont necessarily mean they should be easy to get, I think there should be a reliable means of getting them.

It seems to me the only semi reliable way of getting them at the moment is setting up an alt account and arena farming them which is a huge workaround.

[final needle]

As far as I've seen, arena farming requires a T5 alt account. When I made mine, it took me less than 24 hours to reach there.

Getting mushrooms in arena isn't so hard, nor is it a huge workaround

[round rapids]

If the goal is to make zerk access that is realm-specific -- it wouldn't be about "all classes benefit from it".

Similarly, if it's better access at no cost then it's just a realm buff.
What could/should realm give up in exchange for having more reliable access to zerks?

[final needle]

With the combination of my idea above, Raider could have berserk 2 & 3, maybe being the ones with a small bloodshift. With this change, people could get all 3 berserkers without needing mushrooms, making it berserks more accessible to the people that want them and letting them play around with a new skill

Raider, being surpassed by a single mushroom only keeps affecting this issue

[rough crest]

I think its fine for anyone who wants to do it (honestly, more power to them) and Im not saying it takes a load of time. But it is definitely a work around - I dont the game was designed in a way that its functionality was meant to depend on people simultaneously running multiple accounts.

[round rapids]

That's a whole different can of worms 😅

[rough crest]

I agree with this point only to the extent that RS had HT. But every class is in the same situation in regards to how they can access the zerks. It wouldnt just be RS that would no longer be reliant on pets or specs if they want to use the zerks - all classes would get that.

[round rapids]

alt colis digression
||gsouls and shrooms from T5 alt coliseums is insane rates. kill off like 40 arena opponents in 20 turns (20 uses of an aoe skill); get 40 arena rewards.
compare against arena spam which is like... several turns per win, if you can even win reliably.

half a turn per reward screen v. say something like 3 turns per reward screen.
six times faster? even crazier if you get a 3- or 4-person alt coliseum party.||

[rough crest]

To be honest, Im really really loathe to set up an alt account to farm shrooms...but I may just need to bite the bullet.

[final needle]

I meant that it's not hard to do, and should definitely be nerfed imo

[round rapids]

||I mention it to NF like once every few months 😅 and have since 3.0 launched, 18 months ago.
It's still not fixed. idk what to say. at this point call it a feature.||
no more digressing from me 🙂

[final needle]

Going back to the main topic, any thoughts on this? I wanna see your opinion on this

[rough crest]

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Is it saying that Bloodshift should be able to take RS into redline on its own, and also that the berserks would prevent a certain amount of healing?

[round rapids]

pretty drastic change.

certainly reduces if not removes the ability of other classes to run (tri-)zerks if they can't keep hp topped off even with ruby/siphon leech effects.

bloodshift and self-dot (burn, blight, etc.) and double/quad edge and gymir stance as the only way to lower HP... is a bit rough.
though now that I've written all that out, that's actually quite a few ways to lower your own HP.

[final needle]

Essentially, yes

With the use of things like double-edge it would also help to lower it down not essentially needing bloodshift for it

[final needle]

Gymir stance (and other DMG DOT's) sadly kill you,do they are not reliable ways to lower your HP

Making double/quad edge not able to kill you would fix the need of 235 for lowering to literally 1 hp

[rough crest]

Personally, from a selfish point of view, I would love both those changes from a QoL perspective.

I think other classes would probably object to the Zerk side of it, as this would potentially free RS from needing to juggle Bloodshift.

[round rapids]

Gymir stance (and other DMG DOT's) sadly kill you
I mean, so do zerks outside of HT, so does double edge. 😛
Gymir stance can be disabled; dmg dots can be cured after they've done their damage.

Overall I think the change is too big, though.
I'm all for making zerks have actually meaningful downsides -- but my gut says that's well outside of current NF scope.

[final needle]

Many people would certainly object, like the changes of Gilga of SS.

But it makes people being able to juggle with 1 more skill, being bloodshift.

If you can make it without healing, you can make it big!

And there's always divine bastion that can make you hide through ward

[surreal crescent]

What you said is realm on paper.
In reality: realm is accessory locked in nearly any raid, dex DOESN'T make up for lack of res/def because it doesn't make you outright immune to all types of damage, you can still get hit and die very easily, and dex doesn't even matter as it 1. Doesn't even have the highest base dex in the game 2. Has mystic feather so...why even have dexterity? You can't even play rs to its full potential without getting to 235 for bloodshift, since crits heal you and then you lose both your redline buff (less damage, less defenses) and mystic feather.
The fact a class is supposed to be a glass Canon doesn't make up for the fact it's terribly weak for the current content compared to mages and warriors.
One can argue that mages are supposed to be the real glass Canons due to not being able to use armors and instead tinker with robes and unplated clothing.
High tenacity, literally means nothing in the eyes of Ultima.

[final needle]

But it doesn't lower your hp to 1, that's our entire gameplay, if there a way to lower it without risk of dying, that would be perfect for all Realmshifters.

Even if zerks can kill you outside of HT, what aren't they a problem for other classes? Because they can heal way over it, while we can't/shouldn't

[surreal crescent]

Meaningful downsides?

[round rapids]

Something that can't be offset by a single weapon adorn.

[surreal crescent]

So, uncapped self damage?

[round rapids]

Can tell you've never played beowulf 😅
They have a 1hp passive, and don't have HT.
There are ways.

[final needle]

Sans, we're referring to this

[surreal crescent]

That's a design flaw with beowulf, needs to redline and gets nothing from it but more pet damage, but can use warrior gear meaning high asfk ward. You can also use zerks and small mana pot spam.

[final needle]

I know there are ways, and I have played it. In gauntlets you can Double edge through floors leaving you to 1 HP, you can do the same for world monsters, etc...

I may be the least experienced player in here, but I know a lot about everything

[surreal crescent]

I do disagree with that sadly. As if they don't do self damage it won't matter since warriors, mages, deity and (probably gonna get hanged here) beowulf can 0 that out, and also hide behind big ward which can still heal.
These are also perm unlike bloodshift

How much self damage would bloodshift do here in theory?

[surreal crescent]

You can't actually be 1hp on beo, unless you line your HP up perfectly somehow, best I managed was 3-8hp

[final needle]

Not sure, maybe around like 10% as curse?

[surreal crescent]

There's also quad edge now for some much MUCH needed QoL, as you need 2 of those and 1-2 double edges to get to redline, instead of 8-10 fucking double edges

[surreal crescent]

If it'll be the sole way for realm to get to redline, you're gonna have to uncap the damage and make that 15-20% if you want it to be useful.
Part of the charm with high tenacity and zerks is being able to redline fast

[final needle]

The fun part about it is being able to use it also as other classes, mixing it between either 3 berserks or like 2 bers + bloodshift to be able to heal still

And also I'll say I would want another way to lower my HP to 1 , and make bloodshift still a buff like we have it now

[final needle]

It could also be combined with this by the way

[livid goblet]

If you can heal with bloodshift then that’s a loss for RS as we lose our stats and MF every time we heal

[final needle]

But we could use the 3 berserks + bloodshift

Hell, even with only 3 berserks we can't heal

[livid goblet]

Even then.

If you crit you will heal

And that’s dangerous

[final needle]

Not with the 3 berserks in my suggestion

[robust hinge]

The point here was to swap zerk and bloodshift's downsides

Zerk gives antihealing, bloodshift gives dots

[livid goblet]

When you are at 1 hp, the crit takes your hp to the heal t gives

Which is 10-50% of your max hp

So yeah it will take it above 1 hp everytime

[final needle]

But it would be negated by the berserk's anti-healing

[livid goblet]

It won’t be able to keep RS at 1 hp then

[robust hinge]

This makes zerks better on realm than other classes, keeps bloodshift's use case for redlining

[livid goblet]

But bloodshift itself is very unreliable skill

[final needle]

And also makes bloodshift go into play with other classes

[livid goblet]

Unless zerks stops all healing the RS will never be at 1hp

[final needle]

That's literally my suggestion, but making the 100% anti-healing with the 3 berserks active

[livid goblet]

Then it will kill other classes

[final needle]

No because you could use all 3 the same way or do 2 berserks + bloodshift

Depending on your capacity to support your HP or heal

[livid goblet]

If it stops healing how can others use zerk?

As all healing won’t work

[final needle]

Hide through ward, Health potions, not using all 3 berserks

[livid goblet]

Health potions are also a type of healing

So that’s against what we rs want

As we need to use panacea for every thing

[final needle]

Doesn't RS already heal with HP potions?

[livid goblet]

No we never want to heal

That’s why we bloodshift and use panacea

[final needle]

What I mean is that hp potions could go through the anti-healing

You don't want either way to use potions, but other classes might

[livid goblet]

But we need to use panacea

So if we were to use it it will give us 10k hp

And next turn we die

[final needle]

Do panaceas heal you through bloodshift right now?

[livid goblet]

No

[robust hinge]

Hypothetically speaking, if each zerk reduced healing by 75%, tri-zerking would reduce healing by 98.5%

Meaning a Panacea would heal for 150 health.
A crit that restores half of your health would instead restore 0.75% of your health

It wouldn't be 0, but it would be insignificant.

[livid goblet]

But that would kill other classes

[robust hinge]

It'd give a real cost to other classes using zerk.

[livid goblet]

Especially the new t10s

[final needle]

I would like it more being an additive % for example 20+30+50

Or 0+30+70 or something like that

[robust hinge]

They don't actually lose health from zerk, so just don't take damage

Or build A LOT of healing

[livid goblet]

But rs needs to get one 1hp

[final needle]

Berserks would become a high risk high reward skill

[livid goblet]

So are you saying bloodshift will give self damage?

[robust hinge]

It gives a cost to zerking, as opposed to right now, that they really don't

[livid goblet]

Hmm

That can work

[final needle]

Yeah, not having 100% zerk would damage a bit

[livid goblet]

But it would make it risky for other classes

Especially in endless

[final needle]

But also 0.75% is nothing

[livid goblet]

They will lose a lot

[robust hinge]

If a heretic slaps for 500k damage, and life siphon procs, they heal for 100k, which becomes 1.5k

Whoops, I meant 50k* and 750*

[final needle]

High risk- high reward, if you can live through it, go all in

[robust hinge]

It's a small amount of healing but it is healing

You can bruteforce the downside, but it ain pretty

[livid goblet]

It’s really sad

[robust hinge]

You could also actually make use of the "Increased potion healing" effects from prometheus, dagda and FYH

[livid goblet]

But well everyone will go rs for endless

[robust hinge]

I'd still go summoner lol.

[livid goblet]

Yeah they can work it around that

Oh yeah I forgot

[robust hinge]

Personally I work around berserk by not casting it

[livid goblet]

That zerks won’t be dot according to you all?

[robust hinge]

Dot goes to bloodshift
Antihealing goes to zerk

[livid goblet]

Oh, then othe classes can also make that work

[final needle]

Yeah!

[livid goblet]

Hmm

[final needle]

That was the plan all along!

[livid goblet]

Interesting

Well I will come back to this later

[robust hinge]

Proposed change: Make Berserks reduce incoming healing by a percent (75%?) instead of dealing damage over time, make Bloodshift deal damage over time (10%?) instead of reducing healing.
Additionally, allow realmshifters easier access to berserks (via a passive, or perhaps via bloodshift).

Result: Berserks now have real opportunity cost, reducing incoming healing by a lot, making it incredibly risky to run them, and making them not easily counteracted by life siphon and rubies. Realmshifters see this downside as an upside, so they technically are better berserkers than other classes. Bloodshift now serves the purpose of redlining the realmshifter.

(As an aside, Raider has been replaced by a single consumable. Raider is due some buffs or changes, because it currently has no real place in the game. The same can almost be said about Berserker with chimera weapons, chimera pets and arena shrooms.)

[robust hinge]

Whoops, I opened the can #1086584283277295726 . Feel free to take any alt-related discussions over there, because that is very much a wide topic that hasn't seen much discussion in these threads prior to that mention

[final needle]

A way of giving easier access to berserks would be by buffing Raider.

Actually, raider can be totally surpassed by a single Smelly Mushroom and a Panacea. A chance in Raider's kit might help the spec getting more attention and give people who look for reliable berserks, have it more often, while also making possible triple berserks without consumables

[robust hinge]

Added that point to the pin

[final needle]

Thanks! 💜

[surreal crescent]

Sooo..prior to bloodshift (235) realm would be a dead class? Since you won't be able to redline prior to it at all, and I assume bloodshift wouldn't further decrease healing?

[robust hinge]

1. You can redline with Double Edge, like beowulf does.

2. You talk as if current RS doesn't already struggle redlining pre 235, due to having to chug panaceas or being incapable of critting

[surreal crescent]

1. Not fully like now, beo redlining is painful
2. It does struggle, but you can somewhat do it, I did it 225-235
   Zerks, self damage amity, swordplay/bastion to get back to redline, crit.
   With this, it wouldn't be able to at all.

Unless you also make double edge not kill, then you'd still heal from zerks not reducing healing fully

You're just making it even harder than it is now pre 235

[final needle]

I do like making double edge not kill you through HT, or maybe adding a non-buff DOT (maybe perm) to make able to redline continuously

[robust hinge]

Could also just make bloodshift a 225 skill

[final needle]

But it stills suffers from the fact that has to be on for continuous redline

Bloodshift would be an upgrade of that same skill

But temporal

[surreal crescent]

Like it is now, and now it's fine

It's just the fact realm is at less than half power until 235 and 225-235 is basically 1-225 all over again if not more

[final needle]

I was just thinking that it would be already a big change having yet another buff skill at 225

At 225 we actually gain access to 2 berserks, while with that change we would have 3 berserks + bloodshift just from the start of T10

[livid goblet]

The real issue with this zerk change is the availability of shrooms for new players

[surreal crescent]

It would also finalize immunities for realm (which are very dangerous, requiring you to lock your accessory slots) if bloodshift made you immune to bleeding

[livid goblet]

If quad edge or dual edge don’t kill with ht it can work a bit

[final needle]

A change to Raider will help getting 3 bers consistently

[surreal crescent]

And what of this?

[final needle]

It would make sense lore wise, but I think that relies into another thing of immunity gears, and there's a discussion on that on another thread I think.

You could get still hit by bleed the turn bloodshift goes out, if it matches with a coupe de grace for example, making you still die if you don't have Cure Bleed

[surreal crescent]

While it js true it'd still make it somewhat easier, you could always use a cure-all in the event it does happen

[final needle]

Also, with the changes of bloodshift essentially every class would have bleed immunity, giving it a buff just for the sake of it

[surreal crescent]

Not like every other class really needs the immunities, except maybe beo

[brave ivy]

Most classes can safely ignore bleed. It asymmetrically affects RS because of the rarity of immunity gear and for how coupled RS are to crits. Though, i'm pretty sure that bleed is intentionally kept this way to act as a check on realmshifters - pretty much the only reason A. Morri. has coup de grace.

[robust hinge]

Blessed be the Nagamaki

[brave ivy]

Yeah, really glad they added that - needing to rely on event gear with basically no ward for immunity was really painful

[final needle]

That's what I mean, if you want to avoid bleed as an RS, you have either a Nagamaki, Cure bleed or cure all.

What I would be concerned about is the spell slots RS has for the future, but that's another thing

[surreal crescent]

Nagamaki? Say goodbye to your fallen/arisen shield. No curse immunity much less ward

Funny how arisen kerberos/kerberos has an ult that's specifically made to nuke realms 😂

Stun + bleed

[short scaffold]

So this thread now is: make zerk and everything that gives zerk useless to non realmshifters.

Meanwhile, looking at other "balance" threads, ashen phoenix should be nerfed to the ground.

Yup, balance.

We should also get rid of mimic mischief and other buffs. Just play everything without buffs to prevent powercreep

[surreal crescent]

You're still getting the full zerk buffs, just they won't do self damage anymore meaning you don't need to manage them, but they'll reduce healing effectiveness meaning you're either gonna have to maintain your ward more or you're gonna have to find another way to heal.
While bloodshift, which you don't even use, gets the self damage change

[brave ivy]

People have different ideas of what is wrong and what potential solutions might look like. I don't think adding them all together will fairly represent anyone's individual idea.

[lapis axle]

I have like 206% ward on my nagamki lol

its almost as much as my arisen shield

[livid goblet]

Arisen Nagamaki is one the best RS weapon if not the best

[short scaffold]

I'll check out of this thread. Imo, Berzerk as a mechanic is fine and will continue to be fine. It's thematic, has upsides and a fair dowside which encourages gear and adornment diversity to deal with it. Realm needs a buff to compete in horde and towers not a full on gameplay change to basic mechanics that affect all classes

I do say I'm pleasantly suprised no one has advocated to make berzerk only affect melee again.

[robust hinge]

We could do without the sarcasm thank you very much. If you'd like to contribute to the conversation, please state how you think current zerks encourage gear and adorn diversity (considering that 1x ashen ruby is all you need to not care about zerks), and how the new zerks would cesase to function on any other class.

As per the dangy thread pinned at the top, this is not a place for sarcasm. I'm letting you off with a warning, but know that that sort of comment has no place here

[surreal crescent]

AAYOOOO

That's basically an arisen shield then, nvm

[final needle]

Yeah! It has a lot of weapon adornments, making it actually really good!

[final needle]

"a fair downside which encourages gear and adornment diversity to deal with it".

I'd like to comment on that. A fair downside to something that makes you able to deal x2.81 while giving in the same time x1.875 stats, is just needing to equip (only if you're deity or gilga) an ashen ruby?

How's that normal? even celestial weapons bring max 5 adornments slots, bringing up tp x1.2 crit dmg each, meanwhile you only need 1 slot to gain x2.81 and x1.875 stats!

Knowing that information, i would assume that not only the do not have a fair downside, I would say that they have too much accessibility to ALL classes, if the only thing you need to do is pop 3 shrooms and hit.

[surreal crescent]

No shroom for zerk 1, only weapon or chimera pet (and the berserker class)

Zerk 2 is the pvp shroom
Zerk 3 is the nagganeen shroom aka smelly mushroom (which also gives you toxic when used)

[final needle]

it was an exageration the "pop 3 shrooms and hit", but i'll take it

[surreal crescent]

Thing is either you use chimera, zerk 2 shroom and raider
Or berserker spec with Phoenix and smelly mushroom

[glacial quarry]

As a realm I just think fighting for single target shit like berserk is a complete waste of energy when that’s not really a problem in a world where realm eat doo doo for most endgame content which happens to be aoe

Hooray that wrb is gonna die approx 3 seconds after and @livid goblet ‘s hof run can be 47 seconds

Meanwhile realms are eating shit in towers and horde mode

The biggest issue with zerk is also turn economy it just takes too long to redline but again whatever, end game some realms just full hp with Phoenix and blast for 800k crits

[brave ivy]

Same opinion, honestly. When an RS is able to safely use berserk, RS is already extremely capable. It's all the times that berserk isn't reasonable that are painful.

[glacial quarry]

Because waiting 8-10 turns for zerk to get low…. Snoooooze

[mental crown]

use quad edge haha

[livid goblet]

We already lack the skill slots

[glacial quarry]

Why bother.. atk 1 2 gunnr realm strikes

[final needle]

This change would make stacking berserks with 100% HP a thing

[livid goblet]

Hey that number is only for heretics, we have to wait for our 'turns'

[surreal crescent]

So before you'd only have to get to 235 for zerks and continuous redline. Now you just need to do like 10 towers (if you get 20k each run)

[mental crown]

Yes, so whats your point?

[final needle]

I know that reworking Berserk + Bloodshift won't be the holy grail that saves RS from aoe content, but it can help fixing the state of things. Even if it's a tiny bit

[tight sable]

The turn economy on realm I personally think is the main issue it suffers from. Most other classes have passives that run in harmony with their stat buff. Realm has to

1 actively maintain their passive via blood shift or ward turns

2 slot highly defensive and status immunity event gear while red lineing

Both of the above force the “high damage class” (if that is what it was intended to be) make the player mostly spend turns not using attack skills.

The risk of red lining does not equal the reward of the output damage.

I don’t know the dev’s intended write up on realm. But I think if it is the damage class it should have some turn saving skills (cure x status and recover y ward or ward turns) that only it can have both actions proced. so that there still is down time between big hits, but it is lessened. Again I don’t know the core intent of the class so it is hard to give feedback without just power tripping with ideas that are off brand. But this is my two cents

[glacial quarry]

I should start a kingdom called Turn Economy and only accept heretics, caster deities, and GS

[tight sable]

No discord required. You just gotta play the game well 😂

[glacial quarry]

Why talk? Just kill shit

In game chat is fine

[lapis axle]

I dont think GS falls under the same umbrella as heretic and deity

I also have 20 al in heretic for horde as a GS main lol. I also do towers as heretic now because it's faster

[final needle]

You could make a thread talking about Turn economy so we can have a better grasp on what should we look for.

I know that you've made the reedit post, but saying something here would help

[glacial quarry]

Bp t1 in pvp o

Turn economy 🙂

[glacial quarry]

What aspects would you like elaboration on?

[final needle]

The more the better, I could read an entire bible of it

[lapis axle]

Sure but elsewhere GS is probably the antithesis of turn economy lol. Gs endless setups are literally 150 floors for example . Bp raiding can take up to 15 ish turns to set up properly as well

[tight sable]

I’m not sure that endless is a good measure of turn economy

Also for realm it wouldn’t be uncommon to not hit realm strikes for over 20 turns

[lapis axle]

yeah endless is probably not the best example. However I'd say GS is a very slow class to set up in general because the entire point is to use summons, and they take multiple turns to summon. That's why it's generally slow in things like horde dungeons and towers. GS is probably the slowest horde class in the game atm, pretty sure it's slower than realm because GS can't really do actual AoE at all (jinn AoE is split). For raiding GS can use ultima at least but if you go the BP route that's also slow to set up.

also sorry for going off a tangent lol

[short scaffold]

This. Realm needs a two target hit skill for towers. That's a priority. It doesn't hurt anyone. Melee aoe needs a higher floor damage. Also doesn't hurt anyone. And yet here we are discussing how to make other classes weaker and keeping RS without getting stronger

[carmine forum]

Why not have warriors, summoners, mage, thief, and gods have thier own specializations to swap from rather than making all specs available for all, idk.

[glacial quarry]

Gs endless is prime example of turn economy, mobs die as you buff no wasted turns 😎

[glacial quarry]

Touché on bp raiding, unfamiliar territory for me

[robust hinge]

Funnily enough, that specific instance is horrible for us. If the summons could just take a chill will we'd love it. Each kill makes the dungeon harder and harder while we are just trying to get that damn mag to proc

Whoops, made it to floor 60 but now I got a tiamat and gotta kill all my gazers and welp shit I died

But I digress

Zerk thread.

[livid goblet]

Ask for a spell which makes summon go into hybridization mode where they won't act but won't take damage too

And that spell can be activated or deactivated

Just like call of dumbbr

[toxic otter]

imo: realm already has a great "bonus" for zerks. they can't die from it like the rest of us. that in itself is very time saving/adornment slot saving/turn saving

[final needle]

So, are you're saying that a single adornment (or life syphon) is comparable to all that RS has to do to stay in 1 hp?

[surreal crescent]

Adorn slots? Damn guess that 1 adorn slot is gonna cost you the run and halve your damage.
Deity and heretic can both stack zerks, due to multi-turn skills like Ultima, allowing you to heal, drop to redline range (deity) by the time of the hit, and either get life siphoned or you can use that 1 adorn to just ignore the self damage. Since the self damage from zerks is capped...you can know how much hp you need

So..the rest of you right now really don't need to worry about self damage

[dark dome]

What about when procs don’t activate?

[final needle]

You can always feel free to chug a Panacea or a hp pot, unlike RS

[dark dome]

Yeah. Unlike RS. They don’t need to.

And when anyone else does it, they lose their passive.

If I’m in endless and use a panacea, that’s a death sentence.

Even in deep raids. Highly likely I’m done the next turn

Maybe I should use an x potion.

Oh wait. No….it’s only 5k hp. That only buys me 1 single turn. And then I need to use a multi turn like ultima…

[surreal crescent]

If life siphon and...what's the name again? Ashen ruby?
When neither of the activate? Chug a potion.
You're still faster than my realmstrikes missing for 5 turns in a row, and my bloodshift expiring after 1 turn
You still have 2 free accessory slots, unlike mine that are locked due to NEEDING the status immunities.
You also have drain 3

[stark lava]

Drain does like no damage at higher floors

[dark dome]

Pretty sure realmstrikes is not used in endless. Pretty sure you don’t use immunities in endless either. Pretty sure wisp heal exists, and they free up one slot.

Soo…it’s ok for me to panacea, lose all my passive, but it’s a problem if bloodshifts expires and you recharge a bit? Drain is dead in endless, and very bad in deep raids.

And btw

[surreal crescent]

Also, Ultima is currently very broken, I'm sure you can spare 10 second and kill the raid next turn

[dark dome]

1 ashen ruby? It heals very little. I doubt it can out heal a triple zerk. It’s not 1 slot

[surreal crescent]

Heretic endless is a whole other thread rn

[dark dome]

It’s not about seconds. It’s about turns. When losing 3k hp per turn

You brought up heretic and deity. Not me

[surreal crescent]

I'm not comparing them in endless tho, where realm is the clear player favorite

[final needle]

Almost all Gilgas/Deities have 1 single ashen ruby when stacking berserks, I still have to hear someone complain it doesn't heal enough

[dark dome]

And where are you comparing them? Only time anyone uses triple zerk is raids or endless

[surreal crescent]

But you can't have 1 class be good in 1 singular part of content and say "it's perfect"

[final needle]

Also, for deep floors, the best strategy is Assassin no matter the class, having more healing from pots and more access to sleep dart and similars, so you always have to plan ahead

[dark dome]

Yeah. And you can’t have a class with high tenacity, mystic feather, hp passive and still say zerk should be more powerful on that class.

[dark dome]

Or just go realm. That’s another really good strategy

[final needle]

Or GS if you feel spicy

Being btw, John made yesterday floor 512 with GS without berserks

[surreal crescent]

are you fr mad your class (i assume you play either heretic or deity) isn't the best in 1 end of the content? while being alarmingly far ahead of any other class in all other content?

horde? heretic/deity
towers? anything but rs really
raids? heretic ultima, fuck even GS can pull off ultima
endless? realm? ludicrous. go GS

[final needle]

Also add GS in the endless category please, also in lower tier raids ❤️

[dark dome]

Ehh. No. I don’t think anyone is “far” ahead…but I didn’t write this thread. I haven’t written any “buff heretic/deity” thread. I’m not the one asking for more triple zerk power, that won’t even be used on the content I’m struggling in.

[surreal crescent]

GS can pull of any raids, even if it's gonna take you 2 hours with a summon build

[dark dome]

Meh. Somewhat true. Until they get hit once.

[surreal crescent]

you don't? man I'm sure this will seem rude, but you've been living under a rock

[final needle]

We actually discussed a rework rather than a buff, of the Berserk and bloodshift mechanic

[dark dome]

Would that help with towers?

[dark dome]

If you say so

[surreal crescent]

sort of? but towers isn't the only content realm struggles in compared to the rest

[dark dome]

It is

[surreal crescent]

as i said, up until GS AGG/ancient dragon strats realm was solely good in endless from what i've gathered from other players

[final needle]

I'm not actually sure, I actually place my prayers in towers for the mele AOE thread

[dark dome]

It doesn’t really struggle anywhere else. You just want the times to be the same.

[surreal crescent]

lmao 💀
then name all the content realm is better than heretic in

[dark dome]

I wouldn’t. No one would triple zerk in towers

[dark dome]

That’s your issue. Constantly trying to see who is “better”. I didn’t say better. I said doesn’t struggle. It only struggles in towers.

[final needle]

RS struggles in all AOE content, which happens to be the almost entire endgame atm

[surreal crescent]

ookay..but ''struggling'' isn't exactly what we're talking about here...we're talking about how far realm has fallen behind

[dark dome]

It does raids very well. Solo dungeons very well. Horde can be looked at, but I still think it’s decent enough. Endless is the best. Pvp it’s good, except for the GS match up

[final needle]

That's what for the Raider buff would be, to not be replaced by a single consumable

[surreal crescent]

okay..it does raids well, but why would you go realm over heretic who can abuse ultima?

[dark dome]

No. That is exactly the issue. How can you say a class is falling behind and then say “struggling isn’t the issue”.

[surreal crescent]

?

[final needle]

If I recall correctly, signed tried a booster's swei boss run that he died on with his RS.

He did another one that he completed with Bard even against a bers RS.

[dark dome]

Because it’s your main…class??? Are those extra seconds that important to you? If you’re only worried about using the best class for all content, then use the best class for all content

[surreal crescent]

EXTERA SECONDS?

try minutes.

[final needle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibq5LXY5Z28&t=7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VH5mY3ysZw&t=26s

[dark dome]

No. You are.

Lemme tell you. Going heretic wouldn’t help. You don’t have ultima. It is seconds. Have you seen soreloser clear raids? Have you seen the HoF?

[final needle]

It isn't posted in the reedit post he made the RS video, will look for it

[dark dome]

Classes are inherently better than others at certain parts of the game. Y’all just want every class to be exactly the same.

[valid summit]

Stop right there criminal scum, you've violated the law.

There's no need to attack other people at all here.

[dark dome]

But then I’m the aggressive one 🙄😩

[surreal crescent]

i'm sure nobody feels attacked here

[dark dome]

I mean….😂

Anyways. Why would triple zerk help you? In what content?

Buffing triple zerk

[surreal crescent]

you asking realms that?

[valid summit]

I think now is a good time to then summarize the points that have been made since the last summary.

[dark dome]

Yes. Answer. Apparently you’ve read all 598 messages. So your answer should be very educated and should be able to answer all my questions

[surreal crescent]

iirc, one of the suggestions was to make zerks lessen the effect of healing and do no dot damage, and make bloodshift do dot damage.
but..if your question is why realmshifter, the class that redlines, would use the current zerks...then the answer would be ''to reach redline fast, and utalize their damage buffs''

[dark dome]

Which content?

[surreal crescent]

the suggestion would fairly literally allow better zerk stacking on every class, since you can just have your 60k ward

[surreal crescent]

raids, endless aaand that's about it

[dark dome]

Preventing heal? For the other classes? How is that good?

[surreal crescent]

basically all content realm can do

[surreal crescent]

? lessen the effect

not outright block it

[dark dome]

Ok. So basically basically only realm and heretic would be able to use triple zerk

[surreal crescent]

and why would it be an issue? as i said, your 60k ward is (acting as if isn't now) a very replacable option for your HP

[stark lava]

Sure why not

lol

[surreal crescent]

why do you think it's only heretic and realm?

[dark dome]

Because when ward reaches zero my character doesn’t die. And when hp does, my character dies? Ward has nothing to do with it

[dark dome]

Ashen rubies will die. They don’t heal enough.

[surreal crescent]

and..you're 250 and never used divine bastion?

never used ward recovery spells?

[dark dome]

No. I haven’t.

[final needle]

From my perspective, not much has changed. The Berserk + bloodshift should switch maluses, giving berserk an actual trade-off for all the insane bonuses it gives.

A buff to Raider could be made so it isn't surpassed by a single consumable and allow triple zerking or something similar

What are the benefits to this change: Using berserks has an actual tradeoff and it actually makes it a risk-reward skill. If you can use it, you can go all in for it.

Feel free to make a more detailed message of this to pin it if needed, it's basically the same of what John said

[dark dome]

So. Zerk reduces the heal, but doesn’t do dot damage?

[final needle]

Yessir

[surreal crescent]

yeah

[stark lava]

That sounds awesome

RS wouldn't have to juggle bloodshift wearing off either

[surreal crescent]

with divine bastion recovering almost the entire value of ward, giving 100% absorption, and people pushing ward to (for me still) insane amounts, I don't see when your HP would even take damage to give you a need to heal

[dark dome]

Yeah. Sounds too good. More like another out of control buff

[surreal crescent]

then make a suggestion of your own then?
and keep in mind things aren't ''ok as is''

[dark dome]

Sadly I do kind of think that. I think that the issue isn’t raids or endless. A buff to zerk like that would be a big buff to the other classes that don’t need it. Kinda like the same that happened with ultima with the holy augments and the blights. It wasn’t needed. A big part of the triple zerk for the other classes is fighting the hp loss. Realm doesn’t do that, so it gets an advantage when doing it. If the other classes don’t have to fight that hp loss, it would just be a huge buff.

Can’t see it going good in pvp either. A realm raider that uses zerk and doesn’t lose hp the next turn? Easy kill

[surreal crescent]

so realm being accessory locked (status immunities) or dying to 1 poison proc, is fine? just because it can utalize berserk buffs better than any other class (they aren't accessory locked)?

[surreal crescent]

technically my above message is too
but pvp is a whole seperete issue where it's done in 1 turn anyway
heretic got second chance? i consider myself dead
i didn't? golly! i might win!
||fuck me it got a second second chance proc and hit me for 4x my hp||

[final needle]

Aren't current PvPs lasting 1 turn or similar?

[surreal crescent]

realms are ''easy kills'' in pvp regardless of any zerk changes

no second chance, low hp, usually low ward, no passive to take their HP down when they're supposed to die (heretic gets a mana halve)
highest realm HP i ever saw was 24k, and 6k attack sortie does twice that on a crit...can't imagine what a heretic could do

whenever i see a fellow realm in a war i know it's a free point 97% of the time.
and that is the exact same for the other guy too.

[final needle]

Actually, going back to the "lower tier stuff". I am not sure whether to make Berserk 1 give still a DOT while making zerk 2 & 3 give the same bonus as before as tripple zerk suggestion.

This would make lower tiers Berserk 1 still aprochable while giving in a bit on the zerk 2 & current bloodshift part of it

[surreal crescent]

lower tiers sure would be punished more by healing prevention rather than DoT damage

[dark dome]

Meh. I think realmshifter pvp is mostly a bunch of guys that don’t know how to pvp. Focus is on the wrong thing. I’ve seen some really tough realms.

[final needle]

Exactly, that's what I mean about that, it would lessen the effect on lower tiers by making Bers 1 a DOT still

[dark dome]

But my point was that I feel that the triple zerk change would buff other classes too much.

[surreal crescent]

a thought occured to me to have berserker only give zerk 1, and raider zerk 1 and 2 (since 1 is solely dmg^ while 2/3 are all^/^^) but i sort of see how that could shift things

[final needle]

Most lower tier player aren't using Bers 2 since the tradeoff is too big

[final needle]

This is actually a really good change, it gives the needed buff to Raider and takes back a bit of power from the already very strong Berserk spec

[surreal crescent]

issue is you'd make it confusing
i can already see all the fresh t5 berserkers asking ''why do i take self damage from one berserk and not the other''
unless text specifically details it

[final needle]

It also complements perfectly the Bers 1 DOT thing

[final needle]

That is really true, people that don't read descriptions would be very confused

[surreal crescent]

if you're not building realm for pvp swash for the offense you're doing it wrong, no point in building defense and ward when the opposition often destroys your ward (realm sabatour) due to you then taking high damage

i've been hit by some heretics for 54k+ turn 1, after WoO

(that's prior to going swash for offense)

[final needle]

I have been hit for 100k turn 1! lv 227 here btw

[surreal crescent]

gets slightly better as you get better gear

and to think my mind almost made me suggest ''a swash-like spec for mages, where less resistance boosts the magic stat'' 💀

[final needle]

I'd say I already have somewhat decent gear, I only need good boots, otherwise it's a FYC, ONC, Nagamaki.

[surreal crescent]

truly a work of art my brain

[lapis axle]

so like a worse sequencer

[final needle]

Either way, going back into Berserks

[surreal crescent]

maybe

people pull off swash don't see why hsaws wouldn't work

[final needle]

Should we take out Berserk 2 from T5 Berserk spec and add it to Raider while not reworking Bers 1?

[surreal crescent]

prolly a seperate suggestion/thread to be made for that

[final needle]

Isn't this the berserk thread? We've already talked about this, it is even noted in John's pinned message

[digital lintel]

So effectively make the zerks work like Resurgence. They do the same stuff but can only be maximized by having 1hp

[final needle]

That would be like having 3 different resurgances, I don't like it

[surreal crescent]

you're talking about a spec rework, not the berserk skill rework

[final needle]

Alright, I'll make the thread later

[surreal crescent]

I'd try straight for suggestion tbh

[digital lintel]

Without specifically changing how zerk works for a specific class, I don't see much you can do. Since the core issue is that the ease of HP restoration makes the drawbacks of zerk nothing.

Removing the DoT cap would probably help as well.

[surreal crescent]

new passive ''the use of berserk skills will be more effective for realmshifters'' or something among the lines

as well as removing the dmg cap 😄

[digital lintel]

Well. You could do one other thing I guess? Make it so that if you're not currently Berserker/Raider, the zerks are worse.

[surreal crescent]

but that cap was likely put there to help other classes use the skills, I personally don't want to aim for making RS the only class to be able to use berserks

since zerks as well as all other DoT's take a % of your max hp
a 15k HP deity would likely take enough self damage to die in 2 turns with all 3 zerks on

[digital lintel]

With triple zerks you would take 35% per turn, and even then with Rubies even at that point it wouldn't consistently make you need to heal.

It'll always be 3

Whereas right now it would do 2,748 per turn, so 6 turns to die. A problem being one you break 20k HP you will never take more damage.

[surreal crescent]

what's the self damage % from each buff?
5, 15, 15?

[digital lintel]

5 10 20

[surreal crescent]

thanks

[digital lintel]

Zerk 3 is basically always going to cap

You'd need under 5k HP for it not to lol

[final needle]

That makes sense

[livid goblet]

I have been hit for 100k+ turn 1, AL 40 lvl 250

[edgy turtle]

by me?

if yes, that is an exception 😆

[final needle]

Didn't you get hit for 220k from John's BP?

[edgy turtle]

maybe 😆

[livid goblet]

Even more low al Heretic than you

[edgy turtle]

i faced the same problem
heretics pop-ed up using ara vesta 2 in pvp and i die to them
i shouldn't have posted that video on yt

[stark lava]

Nefr heretic

But yeah I get slapped by ara vesta 2

[livid goblet]

Yeah, and the worst thing is that, that skill isn't even the best skill of Heretic for damage wise.

But in PvP it's bonkers

[surreal crescent]

what players see: nefr heretic
what nf sees: buff heretic

[final needle]

Going back into berserks, thoughts on the DOT of berserk 1 & current pseudo-bloodshift for Berserk 2 & 3? Or it should be made all 3 have the same effect. I worry that lower tier players can't be able to use the berserk spec efficiently, specially since their healing isn't already that high, and nerfing it by a lot it will hurt them

[muted roost]

5/10/25

[surreal crescent]

akin said 5/10/20?

[round rapids]

realistically, they all have the same self-damage (of 999).

[muted roost]

yep, 5/10/25 but 10/25 are always just 999/t