RANKED SUGGESTION IMPROVEMENTS

[smoky yoke]

via @distant viper

Ranked Improvements Suggestions:
Hi, I’m tjwysk, I’m an ex-comp player, commentator, and map maker. I have played Krunker for six years and have played all three versions of ranked (Shipyard, FACEIT, and current). I have some suggestions to the current ranked ladder to hopefully benefit all players matchmaking.

“Quiet Hours Grinding”
Currently, anyone can hit Masters, and there are a couple ways this can happen:
Infinite time on their hands (even with a negative winrate)
Hard carried by luck (many high level players including myself have experienced the “1v1” styled ranked games where it’s two high skilled players and three average skilled players, where you’re essentially forced to carry your team on your back for 8-12 minutes), giving three players free elo
Playing during “non-pro” hours against very low skill players.

I am not trying to discredit the players who underperform during peak ranked hours, but these players struggle to carry even a 1K/D and end in the bottom half of the leaderboard in their ranked games and still gain up to 50 ELO with a negative K/D on a win.

The ELO gained during these “quiet hours” games (and all games) needs to be severely limited to +/- 20-25 to players who are not excelling visually.

These discussions on ELO will lead to my next point:

ELO GAIN REDUCTIONS
I have had games where I have gained up to 90 ELO on a win, which feels great, but I believe that is simply too high.

A player who ends on the top of a leaderboard and gives a stellar performance should not be able to gain more than 50 MMR on a win. If i reference this to a rank like plat, and let’s say a good player averages wins of 40 MMR, it will only take 17-18 wins to go from Plat to Diamond. Which not only is a decent grind but also fairs similarly to other ranked systems:
Plat to Diamond in Overwatch with average 25% wins is 20 wins required. (15-20m games)
Plat to Diamond in Valorant with average 20 MMR gains is 15 wins. (35-45m games)

This not only gives the best players a real grind, but if the below average player in a ranked lobby is only getting maybe +20/25 per win proportionally to their top frag, it will take them 28-35 wins to get from plat to diamond.

REMOVING TIME = RANK TO IMPROVE MATCHMAKING
Changing the ELO system to something more rewarding means good players gain faster, and place higher on the leaderboard, making it where playtime doesn’t equal your rank.

Right now, because of this time = rank system, players who should realistically be “hardstuck gold” are currently sitting in high levels of platinum, which means they are taking up a spot as a “high level” player and messing up what would be true average matchmaking.

Despite the MMR reward, it is just as boring launching ranked and winning a game to a +1600 objective lead as it is to losing one. I believe what I’ve proposed in the ELO gain reductions portion will directly positively impact the true average skill of lobbies and create fair(er) teams.

SOFT MMR RESET
Although I’ve heard this is planned to be implemented for next season, some additions should be made to try and “fix” the skill level averages.

If a player who performed well ends diamond, they should be placed at the top of Gold on a soft mmr reset (one game away from plat). However, I believe that if a player makes it to diamond and ends with a negative K/D or negative winrate (some sort of bad KPI), the ELO they reset with should be reduced by another 25-30%, placing a “boosted” Diamond player in low Gold instead, to try to adjust the ranked ladder.

DUOQ for Diamond+
The best players would love to queue together, and it makes sense to restrict that in low elo, but it should be a reward for the best players who grind. To compensate,
add a 15% MMR reduction on win to DuoQ teams.

TLDR
Tighter ELO Gains/Losses
Dynamic Soft MMR Reset
Diamond+ DuoQ

[distant viper]

I have more points that could be shared through conversation with others but those i feel are the biggest issues and potential solutions with both the ranked ladder and general ranked activity.

Other Point: add Map Selection similar to how Overwatch Competitive does it, give the players three random maps and let them vote, most votes is the played map, keeps variety while giving players a choice

[final moon]

As the infinite time overranked plat, it's been boring for me too

Each team has 1 weak player, 2 average players, and 1 strong player, and it's basically a coinflip of which team has the better strong player to carry

That is to say, while I"m not particularly experienced with comp, I think changes are certainly needed and these ideas sound quite good.

[distant viper]

See i didn’t bring that up as a point because there just isn’t enough active players to consistently have games with all solid players, the real problem stems from the fact that players with infinite time who get to diamond or masters compared to maybe a real T1 player who’s still in plat completely screw up the average ranks of teams and create even more land slide wins

Right now the skill gap of teams is a side effect with no cure other than an increase of players, but a better MMR system could reduce the chance of players in an inflated rank screwing up the true average skill of how teams are formed

[final moon]

Would you say a better MMR system would drastically affect the experience for lower ranks (say, bronze 1 — gold 1), beyond a soft reset getting good players out of low ranks at the start of the season?

I'm curious if lower ranks will be able to notice a meaningful difference

[distant viper]

Not particularly, i am in plat right now and i still get put in random lobbies where im forced to carry silvers and bronzes. However i do believe during these “quiet hours” of ranked there could be some improvement on matchmaking.

At the end of the day some silvers have been in lobbies with masters players. The problem is that these masters players are just as bad sometimes and it messes up the matchmaking

[mortal pecan]

Is it possible for us to add a thumbs up next to the thread?

[distant viper]

Imagine Team One is Masters, Gold, Silver, Silver, while Team Two is Plat, Gold, Gold, Silver, except the masters plays like a gold anyways because they just have infinite free time, and the Plat is a tier 1 player who’s doesn’t have infinite time

It’s a landslide and the Masters player is ruining the gameplay

[mortal pecan]

There fine tuning variables

U weren’t here for it @distant viper but femto used to gain elo on losses going 10-50

[final moon]

Bro I'm climbing in plat rn with a neg winrate

[mortal pecan]

And he’d gain on losses more than at1 who went triple positive

[distant viper]

Yeah like it just doesn’t make sense (no offense)

[final moon]

No like I actively acknowledge I'm overranked and it's just a flaw of the current system

[distant viper]

Negative winrate shouldn’t go past gold in my honest opinion

[mortal pecan]

U just have to be able to gain less plat and higher

That’s the fix

[distant viper]

of course there is the variable of starting with a great winrate to boost you up and then slowly losing more to find a true average but if you are still gaining while on a downward trend of a W/L there’s something wrong

[mortal pecan]

But master becomes harder

[distant viper]

Maximum 50 if you have a game of your life in Plat+

[final moon]

-1% winrate and +53 elo

Problem is 1 win can counterbalance 4 losses

[distant viper]

Arguably not terrible if your wins are huge and your losses are close

[final moon]

Well

It was huge, but only because of a full dc

[final moon]

I think it is still too easy to be carried by luck and then never fall

Once you get a single lucky game, you'd need 2-3 unlucky games to fall back down, and every other game coinflips (which means you hover at that mmr)

[distant viper]

And then the game throws me shit like this and i have to pray to god my teammates know what an objective is

[final moon]

I've played with all of these people plenty, that team is not winnable

and yet you won

[distant viper]

I made it winnable through blood sweat and tears bro

Literally had to 4k every 30 seconds

and beg teammates to stack point

[final moon]

half the time I see beefwood and think it's beefguy for a sec

also, this has been said before, but games like this are super common and soft mmr reset is absolutely needed

I don't think this type of game is fun for either side

[distant viper]

That just can’t be fixed because there aren’t enough players to fill consistent queues with good matches

[final moon]

surely we can do better than starting them off in bronze though

[distant viper]

And by good i mean balanced

I just think the biggest problem is the quiet hours grinding, there’s some diamond and masters players who should never make it out of gold

[final moon]

Yeah

[distant viper]

and it’s just ass 😭

[final moon]

The masters player who plays 40 games and never climbs out of gold because they get 2 overranked plats, vs. a team of full diamonds

[distant viper]

I’m sitting on a 60% winrate right now and know I’m good but if queues were generally active i should be stuck in plat, maybe low diamond, when all the dust settles

i should be an above average “plat” player

and yet there are Masters who stand above me

[final moon]

tbh I think plat has been devalued significantly by the fact that you only need 100 games to hit it

[distant viper]

Less

I hit it in 50

[final moon]

50 if you're good, 100 if you're bad

[distant viper]

yeah fair enough

I think queues would also be more active with the DuoQ and make balancing easier

[final moon]

me and femto getting plat means the system is not fair

duoq is a cool idea, especially with the -15% balance

[distant viper]

It’ll also bring a lot of pros to queue as well which should help keep pros in their own ranked games and other players in their lobbies

[final moon]

one idea I haven't seen discussed: if a player leaves the game (say, a full dc from the start instead of leaving in the last 30 seconds), should mmr changes be affected?

if 2 players leave the game and force an unwinnable match, should you be punished as much for losing?

[distant viper]

yeah i think if a player leaves within the first minute the match should be cancelled

[final moon]

I think the main problem is scaling; it would be pretty easy to ask someone to take one for the team and leave after round 1 to reduce mmr losses for their teammates

[distant viper]

Similar to Overwatch timer or Valorant remakes after round 1

No MMR gains or losses, just full cancellation

[final moon]

what if you see the usernames and just dodge the match though

is that preferable to unfair mmr losses?

[distant viper]

Timer penalties to requeue that iincrease exponentially and the queues are so small right now if you try and dodge you’re probaly gonna end up right back in there 😭

Like realistically if you plan to play more than 2 ranked games in a session you will probably see 75% of the same usernames for your entire session

[final moon]

Yeah

I think I’ve seen maybe 80% of the NA leaderboard above silver atp

[final moon]

Seems fair

I imagine you’d have to play with the numbers but I don’t see why increasing timer penalties wouldn’t work

[coral walrus]

Why didn’t you add creator of lush in the intro @distant viper

[distant viper]

Because i wanted to be humble

Another change which i suggested to @mortal pecan to look into is matching the esports map pool to the ranked map pool which would mean adding Lush to ranked

[mortal pecan]

Yee

Ngl when I talked abt diamond duo queue in nack yesterday

There is good examples to use

Val, ow, many other fps games have restricted and unrestricted duo queues/4 queues

[coral walrus]

U actually just hate me bro

[mortal pecan]

Val u can’t 3 stack in immo

[coral walrus]

I also said diamond+ duo queue

[mortal pecan]

Oh fr?

[coral walrus]

Yes

[mortal pecan]

In where

Ur ranked event?

[coral walrus]

yeah

I think that should happen for at least 3 months

Like all of these changes

[mortal pecan]

That idea was not it im gonna be real

[coral walrus]

I genuinely think an all day tourney

would be harder

not everyone is a bum

[mortal pecan]

That’s the point

[coral walrus]

• u have to cater for all 24 hours of each region

[mortal pecan]

Not everybody also wants to compete in a 45d event

You just incentivize corruption

All day tourney some people can choose to play or not

It’d be like a seperate mode in itself

And u can only play if u have a teammate

Similar to valorants premiere

[coral walrus]

How would tier 3s find a teammate bro

[mortal pecan]

What

They can find a teammate

[coral walrus]

Ur catering to everyone right

[mortal pecan]

What kind of response is that

Everybody is catered

[coral walrus]

I’m talking about the tier 3s that aren’t in nack/kpc

[mortal pecan]

They don’t need nack/kpc to find a teammate

[coral walrus]

how’s that even possible then all they do is just play ranked

[mortal pecan]

U heard of text chat or clans?

Yk like trgt fully existed before they joined NACK right

There’s other groups of communities that grind a lot that are just unknown

If u want to find a friend to play krunker with u can even ask in ur pub or ranked

It could help nack/kpc, like how ranked helped trgt find us

A 45d event is just things into a drain like SmokeRaven said

The existing alts and good players keep winning

[coral walrus]

I see where ur coming from with the servers

But alts and good players will always win bro

3 months down the line you won’t be rewarded by playing on an alt

It’s just an integrity thing

and like making a fresh alt to climb to diamond and then duo queue

u have to have a sad life to do that especially if this idea is implemented

[stuck thunder]

Yall are putting way too much energy into making suggestions when we all know the next update will always be “dynamic objects made more dynamic” changing absolutely nothing and then let’s all scratch our heads asking why the game is cooked.

[distant viper]

I appreciate your nothing burger sawyer

[coral walrus]

preaching negativity 🤮

[distant viper]

took me 5 minutes to type because i dont have a minimized brain capacity but too much effort i guess

[coral walrus]

Another couple of things that could get changed but will probably be low priority:
Ranked UI: a simple description of each class for new users to understand what they do
Ranked inactivity: a trigger that sets off when the game doesn’t detect any movement for 45 seconds, flashing red warning appears on screen then you are booted from the game ( will probably need to be trialed and tested for example round intermissions)
Round intermissions in ranked are currently 10 seconds, I would advise bringing it to the comp intermission which is 35 seconds.

[ember halo]

?

[stuck thunder]

When has a ranked suggestion been implemented

When has ranked changed

Oh yea

They took away the party feature. Like literally taking steps back

So why think they would add anything?

Taking out Burg next update I bet

[ember halo]

you are useless

[coral walrus]

We never even had a party feature

[stuck thunder]

That’s what big Krunk wants you to think

[stuck thunder]

Same with this thread 💀

[ember halo]

then why did you click on the thread and start typing bud?

[stuck thunder]

Devs take a look here and say “ahh yes let’s add a new $20 cosmetic”

[ember halo]

got that much time on your hands?

[coral walrus]

You’re not even shining light on anything

[ember halo]

who are these people who come out of the member list and type random shit dude

LOOL

[coral walrus]

This might be the worst ragebait ever

[coral walrus]

Wallah he’s typing anything

[ember halo]

fax 😂

[stuck thunder]

Ayy I’m just saying. Competitive was better when we could actually jump

And not like glide or whatever

[ember halo]

?

[stuck thunder]

Too many changes that did harm to the competitive nature of krunker that the old pros simply would be playing a new game

One that just has. Less

[coral walrus]

That’s how it is in every game bud

[ember halo]

why are you trying to appease to people who literally dont touch the game in its current state loool you know nothing

[coral walrus]

You explained evolution

[stuck thunder]

See I would agree. But this is steps backwards

So maybe yea evolution

[coral walrus]

It’s not

[stuck thunder]

But like

[ember halo]

this guy has no idea what hes talking about

[stuck thunder]

Also the fov stuff

But that’s a whole other thing

That’s why I’ve always wanted default settings only for ranked

[lament galleon]

💀

[coral walrus]

Worst idea ever

[distant viper]

I’ve been playing this game since you were probably still eating crayons 😭 slidehopping was the most skill based addition to the otherwise Minecraft cod browser clone

Once Krunker fixed fps based movement the game has everything it needs to flourish besides good servers and an active player base

[final moon]

Ranked has gotten a few updates so far that have been positively received

For example, removing eterno sim

Fixing mmr gains on losses

Would be nice if you had constructive thoughts on tjwysk’s post instead of going on a tangent about other aspects lol

[stuck thunder]

Ahh yes. Create an entirely new map. Add it to ranked. Take it out. Good work crew

[final moon]

You’re not a fan of trying new maps and listening to community feedback?

But either way it’s an example of a positive change devs made to ranked

[gritty nexus]

bro just typing shit

[final moon]

We haven't even talked about more accurate hitboxes in ranked

I'd call this a positive change for ranked

As well as balancing famas, among other classes

[regal trellis]

that dynamic example was a quick fix that didnt need 10 posts discussing, just one bugreport

i dont see a problem in catching small uncontroversial wins

[restive shore]

Chill it's just ranked not the main game

Pubs is the core game hopefully we get updates for pubs

[boreal ember]

I think we just need to fix the player ghosting and match suddenly being cancelled (disconnected)

if impossible
then just fix matchmaking

👍

[boreal ember]

blaster is abit op atm

[hazy plaza]

Fix matchmaisnfkixign

[boreal ember]

I say lets add a feature

that works on botfraggers

or like

if their kdr that game was 0.3 they get timedout

or if they had <20% of the obj they also get timedout

[karmic violet]

This might be one of the worst suggestions I've ever seen 😭

Timing people out from comp for potentially just having a bad game is funny

Or severely mismatched teams

[final moon]

I get the reasoning but this isn't a good idea

One bad case of matchmaking and suddenly you can't play anymore

[regal trellis]

what if you get horrid matchmaking and play against a team thats two ranks above you

it happens and being timed out for that is just unfair

however i agree that its annoying that people go afk or cant slidehop

[boreal ember]

they shouldn't suck.

like cmon there arent even that many good players nowadays

[boreal ember]

ah yeah they should fix that aswell
people like me ghost atleast every 4 matches