Krunker Balancing Changes with explanations

[south copper]

Shotgun 90 hp -> 100 hp , Shotgun Impulse 0.09 -> 0.095
Famas drop off 5 -> 9 (nerf) , Famas bullets 30 -> 24
LMG HP 180 -> 170 , LMG drop off 10 -> 6 (buff)
Deagle HS Multiplier 1.2 -> 1.4
Semi Firerate from 150 -> 135
AK bullets 28 -> 30
SMG 90 hp -> 100 hp SMG drop off 12 -> 9 (buff)
Uzi drop off 13 -> 6 Uzi headshot multiplier 1 -> 1.5

I will explain each single change in how it is a net positive for Krunker competitve, pubs, and overall aspect of movement in this thread.

Shotgun Changes:
Pubs: Revolver has been the most prevalent gun in public lobbies on maps such as citadel, evacuation, lagoon, and the list goes on with longer range maps. This makes it where a shotgun player has no chance with the movement to take advantage of fights with just 1 headshot for a kill, giving shotgun 100 hp and a very small movement buff(very miniscule) shotugn will be enabled to thrive with the other classes. Shotgun is already disadvantaged by long-range maps, and most of the new maps being released since all the shotgun nerfs have been longer ranged maps. It is best to welcome shotgun back into discussion as a gun viable to get high kill streaks with.
Comp: Shotgun has seen nearly a 0% pick rate since 2019 and small 2-3% pick rate on maps such as Undergrowth(lots of corners). Revolver being an essential class to counter LMG doesn't help shotguns case since it can be 1 shot. Giving shotgun 10 more hp can enable the pick rate to go up just slightly and potentially be a high value high risk gun in the competitive metas. In comp there isn't much diversity so shotugn will bring that diversity in meta selections on certain maps. Enables 2 more rat spots on comp maps with the movement addition.
Movement: Shotgun has always been known for the iconic movement and giving it a small movement buff with the hp will feature more highlights/unique movement clips with the pick rate going up.

Famas Changes:
Pubs: Famas has been the premiere class in public lobbies for the past 2 years, with famas being as strong as revolver(can 1 shot 5 classes) in getting nukes and farming high kill streaks. With Krunker shifting towards longer-range maps in the past few years, famas has been able to showcase their dominance in the drop off damage that they have at longer range. With the drop off damage being adjusted, they will need to prioritize more headshots and precision at longer range for kills. This damage drop off number is also the same as AK's drop off, which is considered the most fair gun in Krunker by a large margin. The reduce in bullets will also lead players to take more conservative fights and be more mindful of their bursts. Famas in other shooter games is a strong mid range gun with less bullets than a traditional AK, these changes push for that.
Comp: Famas has been in the competitive meta since 2023, and it looks like it won't leave the meta until gun changes will come through. With how weak Famas makes guns such as AK and Revolver, these changes will reduce that gap and enable even other classes such as semi into the meta. Famas's versatility and hero potential is too much for a competitive 4v4 hardpoint and has no lose condition unless extreme movement or perfect double peaks are used. These changes will contribute to a more diverse comp meta which is always a net positive for viewers and players. Famas has seen a full 100% pickrate past round 2 in tournaments.
Movement: Nothing for movement for this class

LMG Changes:
Pubs: LMG has primarily been a weak gun in public lobbies due to the longer-range maps in the games, these changes will help bridge the gap slightly while still favoring more "fun" classes such as sniper. These changes are more primarily targeted for comp meta uses, and I believe these changes will still keep lmg pick rates in public lobbies low.
Comp: LMG has been a staple meta class for the last 5 years and has not seen an invitation out at all. This change plans on keeping LMG's pick rate slightly lower than where it is and enabling LMG to be used more on specific maps than being always picked. The LMG drop off changes will primarily be to help LMG thrive in mid range situations while also not being too strong in mid range situations with the hp decrease.
Movement: LMG players will now need to prioritize stronger movement techniques with less hp and prioritize routes that focus on medium range fights.

Deagle Changes:
Pubs: Deagle has been very weak compared to the Tech-9 and this uneven mismatch enables sniper players to thrive as there is no 1 shot tradability. This change will enable headshot instant kills on snipers for deagle users.
Comp: Mainly the same as the tech-9 and the loss of cool moments of the deagle being used a revolver in clutch moments.
Movement: Nothing for movement for this class

Semi Changes:
Pubs: Semi's pick rate has fallen out of pubs regardless of maps favoring the style due to the power creep from famas and revolver, the fire rate changes should make it more viable against all classes in general except revolver and sniper. An increase in semi in pubs will lead to more diverse class selection when choosing for high kill streaks and nukes.
**Comps:**Semi was a staple gun from 2019-2022 but really fell out of meta with deagle nerfs and semi fire rate nerfs. The nerf being very drastic from a firerate of 120 -> 150 really enabled classes such as famas into the meta. The new semi fire rate of 135 will just enable semi to be back into the meta without fully power creeping other weaopons. Semi is still weaker on maps with numerous corners since the works primarily with slow peeking more than movement, this change will just enable semi to be stronger around long angles like it has always been with giving it an introduction back into the comp meta.
**Movement:**Nothing for movement for this class

AK Changes:
**Pubs: **Not much changes in pubs, 2 bullets just even out with most fps games.
**Comp:**Same reasoning as above, just looks nicer and doesn't make sense why AK has 2 less bullets.
**Movement:**Nothing for movement for this class

[south copper]

SMG Changes:
Pubs: Prioritizes SMG on closer range fights while giving it freedom against revolver players as it currently has no breahting room. It is also very easy to kill an SMG with famas at the moment unless good movement tricks are being used. Krunker maps favoring longer range maps since time have always reduced smg's pick rate until smg wall jumps were added for the first time. SMG nowadays is not commonly used as if you start picking up a streak with the class, players switch to revolver.
Comp: SMG has lots of potential on many maps with the ability of wall jumping to unique spots that cannot be normally achieved by other classes, currently with the rev and lmg meta. SMG has seen 0 room to be included into the meta and revolver being the main reason of it. The hp and damage drop off buff will give SMG a strong chance on close range maps such as undergrowth and give it a much stronger fighting chance on maps such as sandstorm or site.
**Movement:**Nothing for movement for this class

__Uzi Changes: __
Pubs: Uzi is known for just being a class lower level players choose or newer players, these changes will enable Uzi to be a decently viable class in pubs(not good enough for long streaks yets due to the nature of the maps). This is to just have 1 more class in pubs that will give revs a tough fight with the fast strafes that you can do with the class and wall jumping potential.
**Comps:**Uzi has never been used in comp and this would be an introduction into competitive metas, being strong on maps such as undergrowth. Uzi will also give rev a challenge with strafes as mentioned above, the current vibes of a buffed uzi in comp is that it is more like a "nerfed smg" which makes it a niche class but also high risk high reward class.
Movements: With Uzi's having interesting a/d strafes, it is unique to see what movement tricks Uzi can do. I don't have much info or have seen any Uzi movement highlights but would like to see them, and would like to see an undervalued class being at least decent.

[stone merlin]

Charge Rifle Changes: HP 90 → 110, reload 1400 → 1100, disable slowdown mechanic when holding the fire button during the reload animation
Pubs: Charge rifle is widely regarded as the single weakest class in the game despite being very difficult to play. Even for those who noscope for the high SPK and know how to precharge most of the bar before peeking, this is still a painful reality. Yes, the beam is a guaranteed kill against every class even through walls, but in a game as fast-paced as Krunker, surviving for 2.1 seconds between beams with only 90 HP, no damage output, and reduced speed from the slowdown mechanic while charging is brutal, especially against revolvers. On top of this, charge rifle does not have instant actuation even with precharging, as a wiggle room of about 100-300 milliseconds is needed to aim unless one knows people’s exact positions ahead of time. This allows for many classes to easily fry an infiltrator mid-peek, especially since the slowdown mechanic will have reduced the infiltrator’s speed by then.
These changes aim to provide charge rifle with more survivability and a few more niches other than countering LMG and making it easier to kill walljumping classes, but not render the class annoyingly powerful and easy to play like sniper. The 110 HP gives infiltrator more facetank to survive both during peeks and while burning the 2 seconds between kills. It will also help cut down on the rev meta by not only removing a 90 HP class from the roster, but also allowing charge rifle to counter rev in single combat, since the 100-300 milliseconds of exposure is not enough time for a revolver to land the necessary 2 shots to kill. The 300 millisecond firerate reduction will reduce the TTK below 2 seconds and thereby allow the benefits of double/triple/quad/multi/etc. kills to be reaped. This will allow charge rifle to overtake sniper as the uncontested highest SPK weapon excluding knife.
Comp: Charge rifle is, again, widely regarded as the single weakest gun allowed in the comp preset, so much so that most comp servers ban it on the basis that players will purely use it to throw matches. The 90 HP, a TTK that is over twice as long as sniper, and the charging noise giving one’s position away and severely limiting infiltrator’s offsite options far outweighs its long-range damage output, the ability to kill LMG in one hit, and the near-instant uptime after peeking due to the positions of opponents being easier to predict in hardpoint.
The 110 HP will improve several of these downsides. Firstly, TDMing single enemies (with the exceptions of sniper and shotgun) or picking one member off of a group before dying will be much more consistently doable. Secondly, one can now survive while exposed for slightly longer, giving more time to find and target the other team’s LMG. Thirdly, she can properly bait fire offsite with the extra 20 health, allowing niche opportunities where the charge rifle’s noise can be beneficially used for mind games.
Movement: Due to the inability of the custom match settings to adjust the slowdown mechanic while charging, it is unknown how much of an effect a less intrusive slowdown amount would affect class balancing. Disabling the slowdown mechanic while holding the fire button during the reload animation is both more intuitive and easier on the player, as precisely releasing the fire button is not a skill required anywhere else in the game.

[mint cloak]

everything except for the shotty is cool

[mint cloak]

I see ppl use shotty on all of kinds of maps including even Bazaar

[merry marlin]

uzi movement tech is super fun, the jump height is super high (which can be a bad thing) allowing you to perform normally knife-only jumps while holding your primary

[south copper]

More about the strafing potential tbh

[merry marlin]

I agree, strafing is the more dominant aspect of uzis

[south copper]

The shotty one was more for comp but I understand it’s controversial

[south copper]

Yeh makes them annoying

[merry marlin]

if you've played shotgun for more than 30 minutes you'd know that 100hp would make the class actually good

[south copper]

All these changes have been tested to some degree in the past 2 years I’d like to mention.

[south copper]

Oh yeah for sure

But I feel like rn it’s only good for really good players

[merry marlin]

even then though those players would be much more effective with other classes that don't have a range limit

[south copper]

Well yes but with how maps have been structured

There’s a lot of counter play for 100hp shotguns

I do understand tho that good players will become even more annoying

But I like rewarding good players

Even if it is tilting

[gilded cipher]

So basically we are just nerfing rev and famas to shit and giving some fair balance changes across the board

I vibe with it

[warm pilot]

What do you propose the answer is to fix the fact that shotgun ruins the core mechanic of the game? A high skilled player moving very fast through the map should not be able to die to someone who just started because they pressed a single button with zero aiming while the high skill player rounds a corner? Compounding speed is the heart of what made krunker unique. And with shotgun, you can basically undermine people who have mastered this skill on your first day. In my opinion, a player should “earn” a kill through skill and practice. The meta for high streak pub gameplay currently, is to stay in one area and let people come to you. Meaning most movement is not even the best option if you’re going for nukes. While at higher level, sure shotgun does seem weak based on the attributes of the class, but the actual gameplay has to be taken into account. TLDR: Shotgun makes high speed movement obsolete and rewards shitty players for being able to left click without aiming.

tbh seems like krunker is trending on a path where there will be weapons or secondaries that remove the need for most skill.

[foggy mulch]

Charge rifle is fine at 90 hp btw

Amd im not reading all that

[south copper]

You can avoid this just simply by playstyle

for me I enjoy it when I have shotguns in the lobbies until I get one of the demons in my games, I am a high skilled pub player with a 6 kdr, I can't speak for everyone

[warm pilot]

Thats the issue. To avoid this, the best way to play now is stand in a corner/camp

in what way is that rewarding compared to learning high speed movement gameplay?

[south copper]

There's a lot of playstyle counters to shotgun but for noob players currently it makes way more sense to pick up other classes anyways

[warm pilot]

but time and time again we watch newer players default to shotgun

[south copper]

It's not more about camping corners(which are already being done regardless if there is a shotgun or not), it's more about understanding the risks of just zooming past everyone.

[south copper]

Shotgun's pick rate has only went down which I think FRVR can attest to with every nerf

And removing it for guest players

[warm pilot]

Thats simply not true. Maybe for your regions, but my regions it is still a very commonly picked class.

The games thing that doesnt make it just some random pixel gun looking clone, is the movement.

No other gun/class makes it as apparent as vince that you just shouldnt move anymore

Am i saying vince should be nerfed into the ground? No

But something needs to change. Maybe a rework?

[south copper]

It feels like you have a bias against shotgun, let's look at games which shotguns thrive in to understand why no rework will help.

Fortnite and Valorant are 2 games which are consistent in your face than slow clearing and camping angles, shotguns are very prevalent in those games regardless of the numerous nerfs given

CS2 is a game which is consistent with always disciplined play, this means that shotguns have 0 room to thrive because an smg is way more versatile. Shotguns as a gun are very op as well in CS2

[warm pilot]

Valo is not holding angles at higher level???

[south copper]

nope

it is still very chaotic

there are players who have done judge only to radiant

my point being is how the maps favor the guns

maps in Krunker currently do not favor shotgun unless you decide to go head first with a shotgun

which if you go head first with a sniper you lose as well

[warm pilot]

right but krunker SHOULD favour its movement mechanic but it just isnt worth doing with guns like shotgun around.

[south copper]

Now I understand that pubs are a lot more relaxxing and you don't think as much, which means shotguns come in and ruin your streak

[south copper]

Yes but my point is that, running around and zooming infront of people aren't good play and shouldn't be considered krunker's core mechanic

it should be getting to spots and timings very fast using the movement to help

that's how every single high level pub player plays also ^

[warm pilot]

Thats simply not true for pubs

we shouldnt want that

[south copper]

I can send you an xCirno video of him playing exactly like this

We're shifting into another debate with how Krunker is structured

Pubs have always been about using your movement to your advantage at all costs, not just going in front of people's faces.

If you want to tackle that conversation that will be something with spawn logic and such

[warm pilot]

I am not saying we should be allowed to jump in front of peoples faces and not be punished for it. However we both have to admit that the movement is what sets this game apart from other games. But when the game trends towards the best tactic being stay in one area and let people move towards you, that completely ruins this movement.

This is the core issue for pubs and shotgun plays a massive part into why this is meta to begin with.

[south copper]

Yes but you can remove shotguns and this problem would still occur

maybe more actually

there's no class that can shift that, it's just rationally a good decision with how krunker's mechanic is set up alongside the maps to constantly move around

on undergrowth u are forced to play less campy compared to maybe sandstorm for example where you are only in elbow

[warm pilot]

Shotgun is the only weapon that can consistently kill people that round a corner no matter what speed the way i explained. Shotgun literally punishes faster movement. On top of that, with the lag issues where you will get killed after passing the vince, it just compounds.

To round a corner i should reduce all my speed and slowly peek the angle?

[south copper]

You should use your game sense and know when to expect shotguns

[warm pilot]

That is not the issue

ok im not gonna argue anymore

if you want shotgun to be buffed to so you cant even counter it then you do you

[south copper]

It can still be countered with 10 more hp

The best pub players have never used shotgun

This isn't constructive when you speak like that

You're arguing for something greater than the point of my thread

Respectfully

[warm pilot]

my issue is that it isnt good for best pub players. and it isnt good for bad players however it does give worse players free kill for little to no skill

[merry marlin]

thanks for describing sniper

I don't really see an issue with rewarding players for a few lucky kills every now and again. The game shouldn't be balanced around Mr. Shitlord who plays 16 hours a day going on 40 killstreaks every other game

[stone merlin]

Besides, it rewards map knowledge and enemy prediction

[warm pilot]

sniper has similar issues but at least it has the least amount of health in the game, requires some amount of aim plus ADS and isnt a one tap if you dont hit upper body.

[warm pilot]

And is krunker a casino or is it an FPS? Luck should not be a factor baked directly into the game. Sure we will all have lucky moments but its based on player behaviour, NOT the game rolling the dice (except for lag shenanigans which we all agree is an issue).

As for your statement about Mr. Shitlord, I don’t want the game made for people like you described. I want a shotgun that is fun and rewarding to use with a minimal barrier to entry and considered at higher level. But not just a crutch or lucky class that isnt useful for high level play and doesnt teach the mechanics of the game for newer players.

No amount of debuffs or buffs will change the issues with shotgun. It needs a rework

I think a rework worth considering is to buff the movement speed of the shotgun and make its impulse mechanic more forgiving/easier to use or learn. Walljumps too? also lower individual bullet damage but tighten the spread for higher accuracy (promotes players to learn to aim too). Maybe make each bullet hit the same amount of damage anywhere on the body too and increase the range with less damage falloff. I would also increase ammo size to allow for shots for movement and for damaging players.
With the increased movement, 90 health doesnt seem that bad. As its naturally going to be harder to hit a vince.

This approach now has shotgun gameplay look much more fun in my opinion. It gives the class unique opportunities with its movement while not being too strong or too weak to go up against the rest of the classes.

[merry marlin]

I think this is a false syllogism.
take a game like counter strike, where literally every shot has 'spread' which is influenced by RNG. You would be hard pressed to find a person that thinks counter strike is a luck based game. Just because there are random elements doesn't mean that it's completely luck based. Things like taking wide angles or going far around corners greatly decrease your chances of getting destroyed by shotgun. Personally, I think having the chance of being killed randomly makes things a little more exciting. Don't get me wrong, I really don't appreciate dying to OHKOs but if they're avoidable (like shotgun usually is) then I don't really have a problem with it. In my opinion, sniper and throwing knife are significantly more frustrating to play against because of their accessibility/large hitbox

[warm pilot]

In csgo and cs2 most guns have a set spray patter with deviations so small that it wouldnt matter. the movement to counter recoil is the same every spray.

To compare slight deviations in a set recoil pattern to shotgun is not really the fairest imo.

Shotgun is avoidable, but its counter playstyle doesnt seem to align with the playstyle krunker seems to be pushing.

I have no problem with shotgun’s future being a OHKO, but I think it needs to be more skill based. (see my ideas for rework).

I agree with you that knife throws are horrible (crossbows automatically too).
Sniper is overpowered once someone gets even half decent and i dont know what could be changed to make it more balanced while still being viable.

[merry marlin]

I agree that shotgun countering usually needing an antithetical strategy is strange and sometimes destructive, but it can be argued that switching between these strategies is a skill itself. I agree that crossbow is extremely oppressive. I think recoil patterns are a fair comparison; learning shotgun counterplay and learning movement/recoil control are both skills

[warm pilot]

Was more talking about luck with how shotguns work and pseudorandom deviations in a set recoil pattern

And yeah tactics changing mid game is a skill but it just seems too disruptive as to guarantee safety would mean needing to approach every 90 degree angle differently but only against shotgun and maybe cbow and sniper

[foggy mulch]

Can we agree that one shot throwable melees is ass?

[warm pilot]

yes however i do enjoy the ads for movement. would be weird but also fun if they got rid of knife throws and kept ads

[south copper]

Honestly agree with that

Maybe famas and smg first?

Or famas and deagle

[south copper]

I’d probably do just that

Actually famas deagle

[merry marlin]

make deagle usable again 🔥

[foggy mulch]

Would be fire if deagle could one tap sniper again

[fossil sand]

I dont believe deagle should be buffed as it is arguably the second best secondary in the game behind tec9

of course alien blaster exists but it is beyond busted, even being banned in comp

we should also refrain from buffing classes to avoid powercreep, which creates a situation where the shiny new thing is great until everything catches up

every other game prioritizes nerfing

the lmg changes are more of a buff than a nerf, 10 hp will not prioritize people to move more, instead, they will be more focused on shooting people with their now increased damage

also semi just plain needs something else, the time to kill is already painfully low

perhaps an increased legshot multiplier, as i would say thats the most majour weakness

yeah up for the debate, an all-across lowering of ttk is not it thought

[south copper]

We tested this change it was a buff on some maps and a nerf on others, really made lmg have to choose their fights. 10 less hp in a game where you kill instantly does wonders. If the class have 20 or 30 less hp it’s nuked as a class

[south copper]

A deagle buff prevents snipers in a lot of cases

The damage is just adjusted for sniper

It’s not a 75 dmg hs from deagle

Semi buff puts it back in meta on some maps

It won’t be as op as pre 2022 with 120 ms but it will stall and punish tdm play really well

It’s solid at anchoring too with off angles which means players don’t need to take weird routes every 5 seconds to have decent defense holds

[stone merlin]

Semi kills almost every class in 150 milliseconds, it's one of the most powerful guns in the game

[warm pilot]

I love the idea of semi tho. It is extremely powerful but only in the right hands. Very skillful class imo.

time to kill is low enough imo

[south copper]

Time to kill 1 person is low enough but 2 people is very high

[hollow scaffold]

good changes

semi auto reload time should be buffed aswell

to compensate for a counter class being buffed

[lyric plover]

I like these ideas

[celest rain]

bring ak back to 30 mag
like what's the point of reducing 2 bullets?

[south copper]

Ye ikr

[sacred relic]

Sg isn't broken it just needs to be pared with a good side arm. Auto pistol is amazing, crazy accurate at long range, and pretty much the same fire rate as smg. If there to far away just whip put the ap and blast then as you would with smg. Not saying don't buff sg (i wouldn't complain) but tbh it's pretty broken with its air jump, one tap, and already crazy movement.

[fossil sand]

it falls apart when playing against a better player

[south copper]

you can only take advantage of it on a few maps, ive played crazy good sg players and they all struggle as soon as the maps get bigger

we should reward people for being good more than anything

because most shotugn players are free kills in my pubs

compared to famas, sniper, etc

[inland flicker]

nerf the shit outta famas buff the shi outta smg plz

[celest rain]

yes

[marble bronze]

smg is still good though. could take slight buffing but not much more than that, it doesnt need to be broken again

[celest rain]

what we need is 100hp and that's enough

[foggy mulch]

^

[vernal scaffold]

semi 100hp 10 bullets ong

[upbeat prism]

bring back deagler class ngl

[magic fjord]

as a sniper player i can tell you that snipe shuts down fast movement way better than shotgun

i can nail your ass with krunkers huge hitboxes if youre far or close

contrary to shotgun where its only for close up

[warm pilot]

but it takes more skill than shotgun

[magic fjord]

HAHAH NO IT DOEES NOT

😭

[warm pilot]

yes it does

give a new player a sniper and see them do what they can do on a shotgun

9 times out of 10

they will be lost

[magic fjord]

i personally agreee with waht asokra said before wher you should be punished for running into the face of other players

this doesnt support camping, it just keeeps you on your toes and forces you to use your brain more

--> equivilant to needing a higher skill req

if you want to smash players js play an aim trainer or zombiees or smth

[warm pilot]

it does support a shotgun main standing still or moving at very low speed

are we rewarding that now?

[magic fjord]

due to a shotgun's high damage drop-off, if a player wants to get streaks and/or nukes they will need to play extremely fast with movement.

[warm pilot]

but you are look at this from a high level

frvr needs to consider balancing changes across the whole level

[magic fjord]

your "shotgun main" that moves minimally does not have the requisite skill or aim to force you to camp, and increases thee difficulty to get streaks, making the game more enjoyable

[magic fjord]

oh low level player to low lvel playr interaction?

still

[warm pilot]

sure from high level sg isnt that bad

[magic fjord]

forces you to use your brain, think about what you do instead of mindlessly slide hopping around

[warm pilot]

but im looking at how shotgun is for every skilll level player

[magic fjord]

this applies to low level players

[warm pilot]

but in turn thats how 80 percent of low level shotgun mains play and it consistently gives them kills

[timid hazel]

I wanna play sg in raids lil bro keep it as that

[white mist]

more realistic shotgun change: range +500, damage falloff /50, spread -30%, damage +60, ammo now 12, ammo clip now 6

[south copper]

LOL

[merry marlin]

also wallbangs with no damage falloff

[stone merlin]

Shotgun was so overpowered in real life that when the Americans first introduced shotguns to modern warfare in World War I, the Germans were so scared of them that they tried to get them banned on the basis that they were weapons of mass destruction. In response, the Americans calmly pointed out that the Germans invented poison gas. That was the end of the argument.

[magic fjord]

sg is buffed this improves sg in raids pubs and comp

[south copper]

And then nukes got invented

[mint cloak]

Japaneze on the next morning:
Here comes the sun...

[south copper]

They really saw the red sun

[south copper]

I wanted to add, shotgun is the most debatble change in this whole list. It's very frustrating in pubs but near useless in comp, it needs something as a solid middle ground. These changes are what I personally alongside comp thought was good. The argument for pubs being the longer corridor maps prove to make it harder for shotgun, and only higher level shotgun players can take advantage of this change to a serious degree (who are already doing a great job with the nerfs).

[fast comet]

we dont care bring back ranked ASAP

🤗

[celest rain]

make smg 100hp

[lyric plover]

@atomic kestrel

[odd pier]

I haven't personally tried any of the changes to semi, but I'm not too sure about the 150->140 / 1500->1200 model (for comp at least).
I think a quicker fire rate on semi (130/135) would be far more beneficial for the competitive scene with only an incremental if any change to reload speed.
One of the reason semi players used to be so engaging to watch (apart from the gun being very strong DPS-wise) was because the long reloads forced a smarter playstyle. I think lowering reload to 1200 would take away from this aspect where semi players have to be thinking three steps ahead to avoid getting punished for their mistakes.

[lyric plover]

Shotgun is useless on sandstorm 2nd site 😂

If it’s completely unplayable on 1/4 of the most popular comp map and near unviable in most other comp sites, it should be reworked

I think reducing spread but increasing range would be interesting to look at

Makes shotgun able to kill at midrange if you aim perfectly, otherwise your shot misses completely

[stone merlin]

That sounds overpowered as hell, but worth a shot just in case.

[lyric plover]

Somewhere between a 2-shot sniper with and a 2-shot rev with no long range capability

[heady sand]

the shotgun is balanced as is

[true blaze]

it really isnt

[heady sand]

if you know how to play it is

[lyric plover]

Absolutely not

Have you tried shotgun in comp

It’s unplayable unless you are against far worse players

[true blaze]

Let's say 2 players have the same skill level on their respective gun, one goes shotgun and the other one goes ak or smg or rev or any other " meta " classes, shotgun won't win a single 1v1 unless it happens in very close spaces

[lyric plover]

undergrowth site 1? sure sg is strong

the rest of the map? nah

sandstorm site 1 is viable with market jumping and sg boosting

site 2 is completely impossible to push

site 3 is somewhat okay, site 4 is pretty bad

any maps with open space reduce the viability of sg in comp by a LOT

sg also gets completely counterpicked by rev, which isn’t going below 90 damage headshots as far as we know

[true blaze]

🤷 the gun def needs a small buff atleast

[fast comet]

I agree that the issues it has are bc it’s underpowered but also more so that the gun is inherently bad like you’d have to buff it crazy to adjust for the fact that u gotta stick it up their ass to get a kill

[heady sand]

it had better not

[fast comet]

The only times it’s viable is when you’re off site and disrupting rotations and pushes but you can do that with anything

[true blaze]

Some shotgun mains have proved that they can dominate some lobbies with shotgun, so giving it a **small but noticeable ** buff would probably give motivation to some players to grind the gun too

[fast comet]

I’m talking about t1 pugs and tourneys nobody has dominated with shotgun afaik

[true blaze]

i'm sure there are alot of comp metas no one knows yet because of the lack of shotgun players in comp, we just need a small push to make the numbers go up

some comp maps will literally never see a shotgun meta, but i'm sure some will and i'm all for it

[fast comet]

There are no people playing it bc simply the gun gets inherently outperformed by every other gun

Like the low range is a killer in point capture

[true blaze]

That's why i'm suggesting a small yet noticeable buff to the weapon so that players can try to figure out some metas or strategies with the gun

[fast comet]

I agree ppl but ppl will just look at the new sgun, see that it’s still bad, and then go back to famas

[lyric plover]

Give sg pub movement in comp

Problem solved

[fast comet]

Need insane buffs and map reworks to even think ab it getting picked in pugs let alone tourneys

[true blaze]

Ouh, like removing the movement speed cap from shotgun, or Only making it so the impulses can break that limit?

[lyric plover]

Giving it full pub movement settings

Although it might not be that feasible depending on how comp setup is programmed

[true blaze]

That could honestly work, maybe even make it overpowered, it would need some testing

but that's a cool idea

[fast comet]

This works in pubs because ppl are not good just being real

[lyric plover]

Not gonna be op because any half decent rev will snipe it out of the air 75% of the time

[true blaze]

True i guess but there could be some strategies to kill the rev first and then have the shotgun rush in and finish the job

[fast comet]

Not even accounting for tdmers who can get a free kill while sgun is prepping

[lyric plover]

I think you could make sg viable, but you could never make it op in comp

Famas, ak, even semi will always be stronger

Unless you make sg completely broken ofc

Like you could give it 100 hp and it survives rev, sure

Any decent famas or ak player still shreds it though, simply due to range

Semi too

[fast comet]

They can buff it as much as they want it’ll probably never be played in tourneys

It would take years for ppl to get comfortable with sgun over any of the meta guns

[lyric plover]

Just add a movement-based map with no long corridors

Where you can sg jump over half the map

Makes it viable to play sg for that map only

[fast comet]

ig so

[south copper]

Sounds like a nightmare

Actually that sounds like 80% of Industry/under

Which is a nightmare 🤣

[lyric plover]

Yeah it's under anyways

Lol

[south copper]

Our next map we plan on adding to comp will be even more anti-shotgun

[fast comet]

interesting..

[fast comet]

hey! will i need to file a formal client to ram ji about your lying or will krunker ranked be coming soon?

coming from xwater klap and araf

your biggest fans

:3

[merry marlin]

this is site mostly

[upbeat prism]

how about a 4 mag sg so we can boost

still same damage tho

but ppl can actually move instead of relading all the time

[south copper]

I think that’s too much

Honestly it’s a complex class

Smg and semi changes went through because they are no brainer and even now famas is still oppressive

@stone merlin I saw u made comments abt me refusing to need famas firerate, I think tech 9 has slower firerate than famas

I might see if an adjustment to that firerate would be good

My main worry is killing a class

Famas should be meta on ug and sand to an extent still

[stone merlin]

Yeah, if FAMAS firerate gets nerfed, tec will need to follow

[south copper]

I think tec is slower than famas?

[stone merlin]

By 100 ms, yes

[south copper]

Interesting then

We could swap their fire rates

Because deagle firerate is faster than revolver

Which should make sense

[stone merlin]

Deagle and rev firerate are exactly the same

450 ms

[south copper]

Rev afaik is 500 ms

[south copper]

Did they soft buff it?

Didn’t even realize

[stone merlin]

Definitely 450

Same for deagle

[south copper]

Didn’t even put it in patch notes

[stone merlin]

It has been this way for years

[south copper]

I think I’ll do a comp testing with just changing the firerate and maybe damage drop off

ye I was mistaken

[stone merlin]

Especially with a deagle buff, tehchy-9 firerate nerf wouldn't be too bad. The main reason people use it is for the alpha volley, and nerfing firerate doesn't affect that.

If you want DPS, you go pistol or deagle

Interestingly enough, if FAMAS firerate goes higher than 300 ms, it's theoretically faster to then fire a burst with tehchy-9 (swap time + ads speed = 300 ms) than wait for another burst on FAMAS. It would likely be a miniscule difference, but if it ends up being problematic, removing the secondary or increasing the swap time for FAMAS should fix it.

And it would be a skill that would take a while to master

Actually no, it'll probably just get macroed

[south copper]

That would be crazy overcook

It’s something I was worried abt

[stone merlin]

Easily fixable, though

[south copper]

I just hate firerate nerfs, but I think famas's concept is like chamber

It's like if I go too hard with the tweaks

the class becomes just a weaker ak

@stone merlin i think if u got any creative ideas

just throw them here

I feel like we can fix the entire class if we make the bullet count 18

or we can do 24 with damage changes

Might genuinely try 18 bullets but I'm not going to hard sell it if FRVR objects

just depends

in a future comp testing

[merry marlin]

6 bullets take it or leave it

[white gyro]

why do you hate firerate nerfs? muscle memory?

[stone merlin]

FAMAS can still oneburst and have higher alpha volley than AK

Right now, it's basically a stronger rev

[white gyro]

in english

[south copper]

i just think they nuke classes

like it's hard to make a perfect firerate nerf

[white gyro]

like deciding on the value is difficult?

[south copper]

yeh

10 ms nuked AK

50 ms nuked rev's ability to ever perform at an exceptional level consistently

in the post 2020 era

hitbox padding worsened that as well

[white gyro]

I see, I feel that by keeping famas' 1 burst identity it just be less forgiving for missing, which is why I feel firerate nerf is better. However you could shift the headshot multi up and reduce bodyshot damage if you wanted to keep firerate the same

also depends if 1 bursts at range want to be kept

[stone merlin]

FAMAS, even with a lower firerate, has the ability to one burst people and initially does more damage in a shorter period of time than AK.

[lyric plover]

to correct you about shotgun never being picked in comp, its bc its banned

[south copper]

currently unbanned in nack and kpc

it's considered a troll pick such as uzi

which is why it is banned in some servers

"troll pick" meaning that it will throw your game automatically

[lyric plover]

you do know a shotgun buff to 100hp means on maps like site shotgun is practically unkillable to rev

[south copper]

depends how you take ur fights

shotgun will get reworked, it's got a terrible pick rate in pubs rn too

never see anybody nuke with shotgun

even in the past as well with 100 hp and insane damage drop off

[lyric plover]

last thing krunker needs rn is a controversial update with lots of negativity considering how often they update

[stone merlin]

Yeah, I agree that shotgun would be better the way Asokra's trying to do it, but the playerbase reaction would make it a terrible decision

[merry marlin]

"forcing players to play against a stronger shotgun is controversial" yet we have had a busted famas for 3 years or so

[south copper]

It’s kinda dumb because shotgun makes these players think abt their fights

And they don’t want it

If you send me a video in this day and age of shotgun players dropping nukes consistently I’ll rethink my opinion

[merry marlin]

^

[magic fjord]

^

the highest complaint is that it is a power projection for lower level players which bla bla bla (im restating asokra bc i love echo chambers)

[stone merlin]

^

[stone merlin]

Not saying you're wrong, but one can make that argument for throwing knife as well, technically

[lyric plover]

Throwing knife gets one shot and requires charging

Shotgun can kill instantly if you walk into someone’s face + has 2 shots

If you walk into someone with a knife out they have to charge it still

[white gyro]

☕

[south copper]

That’s why when you play you got to be mindful of your fights sometimes. I think it’s amazing that in this state of the game with how complex settings, movement, and game sense have gotten that a person on Chromebook can still punish mistakes of a level 100+. The more we nerf that gun the lower chance that player keeps playing.

My first 5-10 levels in krunker was shotgun before I kind of understood some of the spawns and then went to AK

[south copper]

I think throwing knives are stupid personally compared to shotgun on a fundamental fps basis but I understand why it’s there

The point is though my reasoning for throwing knives being stupid is not when I did to it, it’s just the concept of the whole thing

[lyric plover]

There’s only one thing I’ve done on throwing knife that’s hard to do on other classes

Killing a cheating guest who’s moving around

Like yea you can technically prefire cbow but throwing knife is easier imo

[south copper]

Oh yeah true

It’s a mini shotgun in some ways

Most people don’t know it’s throwable tho I swear

Or how to use it

I do think the concept gets ridiculous in the team based modes

Even in ffa it’s kinda stupid, in theory people shouldn’t use their class for the first fight and just their knives

[lyric plover]

Agreed

[magic fjord]

precharging

[lethal matrix]

LMG has a slower Slidehop than before?

[south copper]

lmg was faster before

[lethal matrix]

Yes I acknowledge that

Is it the same speed as before or reduced?

[foggy mulch]

Reduced

Jump height is higher

[surreal valley]

shotgun is actually p skill required gun it's just that in pubs there would be some lucky ones that just happens to be nearer to us At that time it'd just who sees first

its*

Id say 100hp for comp specifically then surely

[surreal valley]

True... even i hate being thrown knives at like cmon it's peak disrespect 😤 😂

[south copper]

yep

[south copper]

yea

shotgun requires you to path pretty perfectly

which isnt hard in krunker

but that means noobs have absolutely no chance

especially the ones who cant slidehop

[surreal valley]

yeah

like demise once said "shotguns, i own you"

😂

upvoted

[magic fjord]

most reddit stylee convo on discord

[surreal valley]

isn't it supposed to be like that

[rocky kestrel]

Shotgun eww

[south copper]

fax

wanted to add this here

nvm

i cant send message links

ill copy and send

cuz some people have been dming me abt buffing smg more

SMG is weak for great reason, most the maps arbiter's team have rolled out are super long range since 2021. Forcing smg to be stronger is like literally trying to change the game, either way if SMG does end up as too much of a meta. A 6 bullet decrease would help substantially which is the ultimate controlled nerf of smg.

[magic fjord]

cant turn them into uzis tho

[surreal valley]

😭 have u seen uzis in pubs bro

[surreal valley]

like if u buff smg...there wont be any fairness like, thats my stand on this suggestion

[fast comet]

buffing smg more would be awful icl

[south copper]

It’s not that good

[stone merlin]

They're not that hard to shoot

[marble bronze]

buff blaster reload :3 🙏🙏

[magic fjord]

ffs buff the bullet speed first 😭😭

[surreal valley]

somethings strange about them its like theyre playing kranked

[south copper]

I think it’s like shotgun

[marble bronze]

no

it's fine

[magic fjord]

haw-

[magic fjord]

^

wonderful feature abt shotty and uzis are that you dont need to ads to be ok-ish accurate and kill ppl

[marble bronze]

it's what makes blaster blaster

want faster bullets? go ak

[magic fjord]

doesnt it make it always worse than ak tho

[marble bronze]

also do u mean bullet travel speed or firerate

[white gyro]

blaster is only good for being a consistent 35 damage anywhere, which is decent when you're close enough to feel the other player's warmth

(although ak can still 3 shot you at close range, blaster at least doesn't need accuracy I guess)

imo I'd say move blaster damage to 40, or give it a secondary

[magic fjord]

viabiliy as a gun

[magic fjord]

ya

[marble bronze]

secondary would be dope but idk how thatd play with walljumps

[white gyro]

the whole game would shatter in millions of pieces

[marble bronze]

yep

will have an insane impact on the bosnian economy

[stone merlin]

Walljumps with compressor, boulder, and alien blaster would be unbearable to play against

[white gyro]

why compressor or.. boulder?

[stone merlin]

Then you can walljump at really high speeds and combine their untrackability with an awkward push angle

[white gyro]

I think you're thinking too hard about the 0.00001% who would even try this

[marble bronze]

id rather get a shorter reload still

1.45 for 16 ammo is wild when u look at famas semi or smg reloads

[nova mirage]

rpg = perfectly balanced as all things should be

[rocky kestrel]

• get rid of the compressor from pubs

[celest rain]

make compressor have 5 ammo ✅

[stone merlin]

Or up the reload time to 4.5 seconds so you can effectively only use it once

[white gyro]

limiting the use by such a drastic amount probably says more about the item being problematic.

however I'd be fine with like a 10 second reload, but reloads while not equipped

[stone merlin]

I totally agree that it's problematic, but I also feel like there would be an overwhelmingly negative response from outright removing it. Your idea but increased to like 20 seconds would work quite nicely.

[white gyro]

sure on the latter, 20 seconds may be a bit tough considering the pace of matches but I'd be willing to see that change.

just a general question about "problematic", where does this rank versus the boulder?

[stone merlin]

Boulder is harder to use, but definitely worse

[white gyro]

worse as in more problematic, or worse in effectiveness

[stone merlin]

More problematic

Sorry misread that

[frigid flint]

old ass message i know but can the throwing knife also be removed

can you tell i hate the throwing knife

[lethal matrix]

😭

Honestly, I personally don't think we require throwable knife.

Or make a specific knife throwable

Like Shuriken

[rocky kestrel]

handicap spotted

just press shift space

[celest rain]

I think crossbow can be 90hp, but faster charge time

[rocky kestrel]

💀

stop playing honestly

[untold stag]

I think smg should have 120 hp and double damage

[toxic hound]

smg 100 was pretty justified

[toxic hound]

but thats still 3 hit to kill most 100 hp classes

[celest rain]

blaster is fine actually

it usually outguns classes that under 110hp

[white gyro]

Yes, the point was to not leave runner and uzis on a sliver of hp. Either this or give blaster a secondary for the same purpose (obv secondary is much more impactful though)

[white gyro]

I believe it loses to ak headshots at close range, and I'd be surprised if close range smg doesnt win

[celest rain]

for blaster you don't have to go for headshots

and you can wall jump

[white gyro]

Yes and yes, however if you're not nearly barrel stuffing its very inconsistent

Just pointing to comp, no one uses blaster as its effective range and low skill expression doesnt really allow for any standout stats or reasons to play it. In its current state its more of a gimmick class

[rocky kestrel]

nah we will be happy with 4 walljumps

120hp isnt needed

[untold stag]

120 hp is very much needed

[south copper]

U guys realize smg isn’t supposed to be good in longer range maps right

I was very prepared to remove 6 less bullets from smh if the drop off damage got too strong

But it just makes it a bit more useful on some maps

[untold stag]

I forgot to mention the dropoff, the dropoff should be set to 0 and these changes should also happen

Joking aside the damage dropoff is a good thing, since the bullets would do no damage at long range, but together with the hp buff it is a little too strong imo

[fossil sand]

i do believe smg is on the stronger side as of now

but we should wait for the hitbox changes before making any additional changes

as its strongest quirk will be greatly affected by them

[manic hull]

^

[rocky kestrel]

Buff ak fire rate and give back the 6 famas bullets ong

[hollow scaffold]

nah stick to trading bro

[rocky kestrel]

famas was perfectly balanced when ak smg wasnt nerfed

[manic hull]

Thats why you guys dont decide on nerfs

[manic hull]

Nf

[hollow scaffold]

nah fax nah fax

[rocky kestrel]

[stone merlin]

Devil is just mad he can't shit on guests with op weapons

[rocky kestrel]

i was still averaging 45-50 kpg games before the changes and after the changes

farming the shit out of pubs doesnt stop

infact its more now than before as we gonna compensate for the cw farm aswell which they removed

[rocky kestrel]

its still easy

[hollow scaffold]

bro who cares about pubs

[marble bronze]

a lot of people

[stone merlin]

Most of the playerbase, in fact

[hollow scaffold]

who cares about pub results against guests in the discussion of weapon balancing *

[magic fjord]

a lot people

considering it is the most played part of krunekr

[hollow scaffold]

read it again i believe in you

[rocky kestrel]

idk the exact number but its defo like atleast 10-20x of people who care about ranked

😂

[hollow scaffold]

So ure gonna ignore the corrected statement

[rocky kestrel]

yea coz its wrong " discussion of weapon balancing " he said smth to which i replied with that ss it wasnt related to balancing in the first place

[hollow scaffold]

im pretty sure the term "op" refers to weapon balancing though

[south copper]

im sure the pub players that are getting stomped wants to keep seeing famas buffs

let's cater to the level 300s of the game

[south copper]

@upbeat prism

[stone merlin]

Oh. This post.

So many good ideas, but also so much braindeath...

[upbeat prism]

ohhh this one tysm asokra

so they're adding more of these suggestions??

[south geyser]

🥀

[rain notch]

gonna bump this

[south geyser]

close this

[wintry gull]

LMG needs to be changed

It hasn’t even been used in a tourney since this nerf

The damage should be reverted

When famas gets buffed it’ll be comp again

Even though rn it’s somewhat viable

I think damage 17 —> 18 would give lmg a bit more of an edge to fights than what it has rn, it wouldn’t even win a single 1v1 unless you outplay the other player with movement

[rocky kestrel]

yes

damage nerf

17 to 15-16

pls

[manic hull]

You suck

[rocky kestrel]

it should JUST be a tank

nothing else

literally NOTHING

10hp boost and damage nerf would be goated

[manic hull]

Yea good one

[rocky kestrel]

its true

[manic hull]

😇

[wintry gull]

was my suggestion good though

that way all 7 comp guns will be viable

and we can see different comps

so every team isnt going to run the exact same thing

[south copper]

Damn that sucks

Teams will learn it’s good again soon

Either way lmg has been in meta for 5 years

[wintry gull]

just say you don't want it in the comp

[wintry gull]

its just not though?

its not viable enough since semi rev ak and smg just overpower it by far (the current comp)

[south copper]

Idk abt smg

[wintry gull]

the pickrate for sniper in the last major was higher

than lmg

[south copper]

Same with rev

[wintry gull]

rev is S tier what???

ak rev semi are definitely comp

[south copper]

It can chill with 170hp for a couple more months

Devs originally wanted it at that much hp anyways

Oce people always pushed for lmg buffs when the gun has had a 100% tourney pick rate since 2020

Now people complain the pickrate is at 30-40%

[wintry gull]

i agree with the hp

im talking about the damage and mag size

just wasn't needed

[manic hull]

better than his

[wintry gull]

yeah well he doesn't have much experience in comp

i can't even call his suggestions hot takes

[manic hull]

he thinks hes right

[wintry gull]

bro i can never post a gif

[manic hull]

yeah same

[rocky kestrel]

this is kb u cant do anything here

[wintry gull]

@south copper

slight buff to change the meta

since we know famas buff is going to happen

[merry marlin]

I love playing LMG and leaving everyone I shoot at on 3hp because the falloff + damage nerf :D

[wintry gull]

this

[rocky kestrel]

-30 hp and reverting those 2 nerfs

Would be fair

[south copper]

a non lmg meta atm is fine for a couple more months

it's either lmg 100% pickrate or not

[rocky kestrel]

True

Ranked is much more fun too

[fossil sand]

how about we buff the unusable guns

lets get uzi up there 😁

[rocky kestrel]

yes

increase uzi strafe speed

more AD AD spam for npcs

[manic hull]

all your guns are getting buffed

[wintry gull]

Just not though with this slight buff

we already said lmg was the reasons teams were winning

now wit this famas buff famas is probably going to be meta

[south copper]

It really is impossible to balance lmg

If you give it a slight buff it’s just good enough where you can play it and not have to worry abt another fun

Gun

[wintry gull]

The damage is a slight buff

[south copper]

It doesn’t take much skill and very easy to hop on with high impact

Ya and it’ll be back to 100% pickrate for the next idk years

Lmg was in the exact same stats u mentioned 170 hp and 18 damage and was still 100% pick rate

[fossil sand]

lmg isnt even weak

its just not meta right now

some adjustments where either semi or rev are no longer a must play and its probably back in tournament comps