Is this an okay enclosure for my leo?

[quiet spade]

My mom keeps saying she doesnt need anything more than a hide and sand but they’re supposed to be cluttered iirc. But I wanted to know if this is okay

[orchid spindle]

Leos need 3 hides at least? One on the warm side, one in the middle as a wet hide filled with for example sphagnum moss to help them shed, and one on the cool side, so they can hide and feel safe in different temperature zones so they can regulate themselves since their body heat depends on external environment, since they cant produce body heat themselves

[orchid spindle]

And how big is that enclosure even? Since it is hard to tell with the big vase.

[quiet spade]

Uhh I think a 10 gal, my mom wont let me get anything bigger because she says “thats all they need” which i know its not

[quiet spade]

I might just put her in my hogs old 20 gal anyway. But its not a front opening tank so I dont wanna scare her when i get her out

[orchid spindle]

Well…here in Germany for example anything below 35-40 gallon is considered animal abuse. The issue is that you cant give any good temp gradients since the tank is to small to make a cool and warm side and also the enclosure is probably not high enough to use uvb

[quiet spade]

35-40? Wasnt the minimum 20?

[karmic fulcrum]

Nta I'd prioritize the size over that fear of scaring her when getting her out. After all, 99% of her time is spent in that tank whereas the handling is less often

[orchid spindle]

Nope, here in Germany we have probably way stricter rules on animal conditions

[quiet spade]

Yeah

[quiet spade]

Im definitely not in germany lol, but Ill still get a bigger tank for her

[orchid spindle]

Yeah that would be awesome

[karmic fulcrum]

I believe the 20gal is considered surviving minimum (in the states at least), where it is possible to achieve temperature gradients but not ideal or recommended. 40gal is considered the thriving minimum

[quiet spade]

Ohh okay.

[orchid spindle]

Maybe you have some sites where people offer used enclosures in your area for cheaper? If money is the main argument from your mother?

[quiet spade]

Will she show signs of being unhealthy by being in a smaller tank? She seems really happy but im not an expert

[quiet spade]

No she just doesnt wanna spend any money on something they “dont need”

[karmic fulcrum]

But also measuring in gallons isnt ideal for terrestrial creatures as many different styles of tank can hold the same number of gallons, so we say a tank with the dimensions of 36inx18inx18in is thriving minimum

[orchid spindle]

Reptiles won’t show health problems until it is almost too late since they are masters in hiding their issues

[quiet spade]

Oh im not sure, i dont have a measuring tape

[quiet spade]

Oh okay

[quiet spade]

What will i see if its almost too late

[orchid spindle]

Well you do need too, since surviving is not the same as thriving

[karmic fulcrum]

Nta but id still browse sites like fb marketplace as i have actually seen occasional free tanks too

[quiet spade]

She would still have to buy more stuff to clutter it but I’ll definitely try to get her into ATLEAST a 20 for now

[orchid spindle]

You can pick up rocks and sticks from outside tho for free as long as you clean them properly and make sure they are not toxic to leos

[quiet spade]

Oh and also, she left my gecko without food and waterless for a little less than a week, I was out for then and Im trying to make sure shes okay. What should I be looking out for

[quiet spade]

Yeah ty

[orchid spindle]

There should be enough tutorials on youtube for the cleaning process too on YouTube

[orchid spindle]

Would also recommend getting a nice piece of slate stone as a basking spot under the heat lamp

[quiet spade]

Does it have to be that stone? I have one of her sticks by the lamp so she can sit up there

[orchid spindle]

So the thing is, it saves some heat even after you turn off the lights, my gecko basically chills non stop on hers to tank some warmth

[quiet spade]

Ah

[orchid spindle]

But i your stick sadly doesn’t really do that

[quiet spade]

Is it okay for now

[orchid spindle]

I mean it doesn’t have to be a slate stone, any stone should do it as long as it is big enough for your gecko to comfortably lay on it

This is mine for example

[quiet spade]

We are going to uncle bills rn, Ill look for somethings

[quiet spade]

-# i love that she only has patterns on her tail

[orchid spindle]

Like it is just a recommendation, your gecko won’t randomly combust just because you don’t give them a stone. But from mine I can tell that they enjoy having a spot like that

[quiet spade]

Yeah

[orchid spindle]

Yeeesss me too her tail is absolutely beautiful since it has no black. Just different shades of gray

[quiet spade]

mine is named banana from her overripe banana colour

[orchid spindle]

Also speaking of this, i think most people on this discord feed their adult gecko just once a week, so as long as your gecko isn’t underweight, not feeding it wont really harm it

[quiet spade]

My main concern was the water

[quiet spade]

I used to feed her every 2-3 days. But shes a year so I feed her like 4-5 days. Is that reasonable?

[quiet spade]

And no light

All of my animals were freezing

[orchid spindle]

But if I were you I would keep my eyes open on fb marketplace or similar sites to see if you can get a super cheap or free enclosure. Sometimes you can get lucky there.

[quiet spade]

Yeah!

[orchid spindle]

Ok ngl, it rather sounds like your mum doesn’t really care about the well being of your animals. Since swapping out water and turning on a light isn’t much to ask for 💀😭

[quiet spade]

When they split up, she had most of the animals (out of 20) and they all frickin died bro.

Her gecko is in a 10 gal with sand and a hide

I didnt want her having my animals but we werent allowed with them at our current place

also is an adult dune gecko good In a 10 gal since they’re tiny? I was wanting one

[orchid spindle]

Damn I am kinda glad that the law here forbids landlords to forbid small animals like hamster, reptiles and other small animals, so I didn’t even asked my landlord 😂

[orchid spindle]

Ok that sounds super irresponsible

[quiet spade]

They dont allow basically anything but dogs and cats with a 500 dollar fee, some of those are still not allowed

[quiet spade]

she needs to stick to her dog💔💔

[quiet spade]

she wants to let her old cat go js bc hes old

[orchid spindle]

Americans are crazy, if they would pull shit like that here in Germany they would have a nice visit from the lawyer 💀😂

[quiet spade]

😭

[orchid spindle]

Can I ask how old you are if you don’t mind? Since it sounds like you are basically dependent on your parents opinion?

[quiet spade]

no cause we’ve had like 5 different owners in a year. The one we moved in with said its okay as long as she isnt brought to attention bc she doesnt like them

[quiet spade]

Im not dependent really, Its just I cant get a job to buy them stuff. I know mainly what they say is not true

[orchid spindle]

Damn

[orchid spindle]

Ahh ok, because I was wondering if you were depended on your mom for any upgrades. Since as a smaller kid/teenager you are kinda powerless against that

[quiet spade]

I live with my dad now though. Except he doesnt have 2 incomes like my mom withh her bf

[orchid spindle]

Also do you have a wet hide for your gecko? Forgot to ask that

[quiet spade]

Wet hide as in a moist moss hide?

[orchid spindle]

Yeah

Just checking because the pic only shows the big vase as a hide

[quiet spade]

Yeah i have moss in there but its not moist. I have extra hides for her when I move her

that i can make a wet hide

[orchid spindle]

I mean you need to manually keep it wet?

[quiet spade]

It not that kind of mosssss

store cat spotted

[orchid spindle]

Chunkyyyy

[orchid spindle]

What kind of moss?!

[quiet spade]

It came in a kit 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[orchid spindle]

Now i am curious

[quiet spade]

Its tan and soft

[orchid spindle]

Well I can recommend sphagnum moss since it keeps wet for very long. But if you dont have that at least you can use paper roll and sprayit with water

[oblique canyon]

Nta i am going to be a bit blunt, if thriving minimum sized enclosure(36x18x18 / 40gallon) can not be provided especially for long term i would look into rehoming.

As the leo isn't even in a surviving min enclosure, and even with a 20gallon they are only meant to be temporary as thriving needs cannot be met in small sizes.

You also have to be able to provide veterinary care for the animal and it does not sound like your mother would be willing to help and if you are a minor that can put a lot of stress on you. It is also her house, and she CAN stop you from providing thriving care which isn't fair to the animal. I am really sorry 🫂

[quiet spade]

Reindeer moss

[quiet spade]

Once we move in a month, my dad is able to save a lot more money so we can give her more stuff

The 20 is temp until then

side topic, mystery bag? 💔 pet store btw

[orchid spindle]

Wouldn’t do it they mostly just only “shop guardians” (all the stuff than never left and no one wanted) in it

[quiet spade]

Oh, no i wasnt asking if i should get it. Its js strange

[orchid spindle]

Lol