im busy rn but another <@&443773497429196810> might be able to
#my leopard gecko is pregnant and she is losing fat in her tail very fast
sweet pagoda
tawny musk
ok how long do i have to wait?
charred bolt
Hey, we have breeders here who may have suggestions when they come online (I am not one of them). But for now, any rapid weight loss I would highly recommend a !vet visit as we cannot provide medical advice here. Here are some resources to help you find an exotic vet below.
minor kindleBOT
tawny musk
but its like 4:48 in the morning
quaint comet
To my knowledge a gravid female should not be losing weight anywhere in her body rapidly so it does sound like something else is going on.
tawny musk
i will send a pic of what she looked like an dwhat she looks liken now
Now
Some time ago
quaint comet
did you breed her?
tawny musk
Idk what to do cuz I can't see a vet he is like two hours away from me
quaint comet
or are you just assuming she's pregnant because she's round
tawny musk
did you breed her?
Yes with my male leopard gecko
quaint comet
oh.
tawny musk
No I did breed them
I checked up on her every day since we breed them and now she is suddenly losing weight. It's one week ago since we breed them
quaint comet
okay. so that's a whole different conversation but the best thing to do is try to call vets around you, even if they're 2 hours away . emergency vets included and get her in. We can't really offer any other medical help. and I believe all of our breeders are asleep.
I... don't think eggs develop that quickly after breeding...? That sounds oddly fast for her to get that large and stuff
tawny musk
Yeah
quaint comet
if the second picture was before you bred her.
tawny musk
But it's like 5 am and my mom is leaving for work at 7-8am and I can't do anything cuz I am not old enough to drive
So
oblique topaz
nqa in addition, females developing eggs and laying spend a lot of energy doing so. and not every female, particularly mill bred, is going to be fit to breed. so thats something you really need to take into account. the right amount of nutrition is gonna need to be provided for things to go right, and even then
yknow
do they have separate tanks?
(ill dip now my bad)
quaint comet
i'm just gonna pop this in here since it's relevant to the topic. !breeding
minor kindleBOT
tawny musk
do they have separate tanks?
the have separate tanks yes
we just put them togther for 5-9 min
and then put the female back and let the boy do his thing to him self
and i have been feeding her and i just did and she has calcium in her cage and water
and i check on her everyday and stuff
oblique topaz
what do you feed her and how much?
tawny musk
i feed her 5 wax worms now
oblique topaz
ah.
oblique topaz
whats her regular diet though? how many each feeding, how much time between each, and how many different types of bugs
what your supplementation looks like, etc
tawny musk
we only feed meal worms
and before i breed them they had it in there cage but i had to take it out cuz i wantd a rutine
so idk how much she eat at that time
oblique topaz
we still recommend you see a certified exotics vet asap but this info will still be important for breeders here to know.
in addition, if you could post a picture of the tank as well thatd be helpful
tawny musk
but she was good size before i breed her with the male
tawny musk
we still recommend you see a certified exotics vet asap but this info will still...
like here?
oblique topaz
yes
oblique topaz
ill ping the breeder role. when someone gets on in a few hours they can assist you in this thread
tawny musk
if i take one now just know i took a hide out
oblique topaz
mkay
tawny musk
There is a hide where it's nothing but had to take it out cuz I was looking at her and stuff to see if she was ok
oblique topaz
is that sand
oblique topaz
you should ask for an xray when you go to the vet
oblique topaz
what
tawny musk
and the vet that has a good leopard gecko pro is gone until may
so i will have to drive a long time to get to one
and my mom has work so it will be in some long hours
and idk what to so
oblique topaz
can you take a bus?
tawny musk
can you take a bus?
sadly no
oblique topaz
the sand is make to be hard not like lose
like a mat?
oblique topaz
oh
tawny musk
yeah
oblique topaz
excavator clay
tawny musk
yea
but it can be lose to but i want it to be hard in the girls cage but in the boys its hard and loose
so
but she can eat it
we lade new sand cuz the other one she could eat but this was a long time ago like 3 months ago
oblique topaz
nqa either way that substrate is not gonna cut it. especially if she were to develop eggs.
oblique topaz
we lade new sand cuz the other one she could eat but this was a long time ago li...
that is not long. meaning you should really get that xray
tawny musk
oh boy if i go to the vet 2h from me it wont be at the store it will be in a home where yo cant take it
sadly
but i will talk to my mom
oblique topaz
leopard geckos dig when they lay eggs so youre either going to need a dig box with 70/30 topsoil and playsand
but again, the leo needs medical attention. most of us cant offer advice outside that
tawny musk
cuz my gecko is my first priority
oblique topaz
the breeders may be able to give you a bit more advice in terms of what to do if she does have eggs, but they will still recommend the vet before anything else in case of a blockage
tawny musk
i will talk to my mom
oblique topaz
im gonna drop the guide here for you to read. it covers basic leopard gecko care including diet and substrate
!guide
minor kindleBOT
tawny musk
she has eggs thats for sure
tawny musk
im gonna drop the guide here for you to read. it covers basic leopard gecko care...
thanks
oblique topaz
its not really possible for them to fully develop eggs just 10 days after being bred btw
i think she may be a bit round for another reason, but lets just hope its eggs because thats the best case scenario
tawny musk
ik but i can see something happening in her and i think she has eggs
yerah
yeah*
i will talk to my mom when she wakes up
thanks for helping
tawny musk
yeah
i will talk to my mom about the vet
and her work
cuz my grandma can come and pick me up if she has time
but i will see
loud atlas
if you’re not self-sufficient yet you don’t really have any breeding animals in the first place imo
but NQA|| and not qualified medical advice and not a diagnosis just anecdotally my old boy swelled up a bit and lost tail fat just like that before passing from organ failure. a swollen tummy is always an immediate emergency|| tw animal death
tawny musk
i did alot of research on it and asked a pro at the pet store so i thought i was good
so she can die? is it possible?
oblique topaz
people at pet stores arent pros
tawny musk
people at pet stores arent pros
i mean she was breeding herself
oblique topaz
but nqa theoretically, yes. death is a possibility.
hence why we suggested the vet
tawny musk
she has been breeding for along time tho
silver basalt
Who was she bred by?
tawny musk
ugh i dont want her to die
tawny musk
Who was she bred by?
my gecko?
quaint comet
just because there's a few people in here try to keep the convo to 3 people helping at a time!
I just wanted to jump in and add. Just because someone has been breeding for awhile, does not make them an ethical breeder or a good choice for a mentor. There are plenty of people in the reptile breeding community who have been breeding for say 30 years and run mills and are extremely unethical.
silver basalt
sorry for jumping in! letting the pros takeover
quaint comet
no you're fine I'm just watching
there's a lot of people typing so i wanted to pop the reminder in and that one thing
:3 continue all ❤️
silver basalt
Okie! I just want to say that research is null if you’re not checking for outdated sources and constantly trying to improve care, everything is constantly evolving in reptile research regarding sufficient care. It’s so so easy to be misinformed.
tawny musk
Who was she bred by?
what do you mean
silver basalt
Everything about the setup is not so great, and the breeding without proper vet access, no ability to care for the babies, etc is a bit aaah.
loud atlas
i did alot of research on it and asked a pro at the pet store so i thought i wa...
the problem is that it’s not good, when you don’t have the means to take an animal to the vet by yourself (i.e. in your own car) or your own money to pay for the vet you shouldn’t be creating new animals
tawny musk
Everything about the setup is not so great, and the breeding without proper vet ...
i am able to take care of the babies
silver basalt
Breeding as a hobby should never be something you just decide on a whim to do. You should have experience, long experience, with the animal and their care.
silver basalt
i am able to take care of the babies
With the way your setup looks, I don’t truly believe that. /nm
loud atlas
you’d be responsible for all of those babies forever if nobody bought them. that means all of those separate tanks, buying all of the heating, feeding them, and vet bills
silver basalt
And other factors such as again, vet access, adequate housing, lighting, heat.
it’s a money pit. and not something someone without other income can do without knowledge of the industry
quaint comet
what do you mean
they mean. Who bred your geckos. Do you know their genetics and lineage. Or are they just 2 petstore geckos you bought.
silver basalt
ty peachy , i got tunnel vision
quaint comet
you're fine LOL.
loud atlas
please look at the server !guide too (can I link this in forums? idk) also because to be fair the enclosure does look straight outta the 90’s
minor kindleBOT
quaint comet
you can link it in forums yes
tawny musk
we have access to the vet but its like 5am
loud atlas
just feel the basic husbandry needs to be down to a perfect science before making new animals
if you have access then go?
tawny musk
if you have access then go?
but its 5am
silver basalt
The leopard gecko market is already extremely over saturated so it’s very much discouraged for un-informed or “just because i can” breeding.
tawny musk
if i had a car i would go
quaint comet
I don't think they're saying they can't just that they're a minor who has to make it around their parent
loud atlas
if you’re unable to drive yourself to a vet right away, by yourself, are you responsible enough for babies, where they can die from literally anything out of the egg?
silver basalt
Which is another small point, minors imo, though i know this is situational, should not be breeding reptiles, especially if financial reliance is still guardian-centered.
quaint comet
imma let juni and xia finish typing their thing but i'd like all others to stop typin for a second after that so i can type something up that i think's important.
tawny musk
plus no vets in my city is open at 5am
loud atlas
yeah that kinda was my point about self sufficiency.. if you have access to a vet you gotta be able to get there, potential emergencies can’t wait on parents
oblique topaz
if you’re unable to drive yourself to a vet right away, by yourself, are you res...
i think its important to remember that the breeding has already been done. a lot of these things are afterthoughts, particularly when there has been a lapse in judgement or knowledge.
all we can advise on now really, is how to help the gecko in the future and what precautions to take. i dont think its particularly productive to repeat whats already been said about unethical breeding prior /nm
silver basalt
I think at the end of the day all that can be done is a vet visit.
The sooner the better
tawny musk
I think at the end of the day all that can be done is a vet visit.
i will talk to my mom and stuff so i will go
either way
quaint comet
Backtracking a bit because it's important.
Nat, do you know your geckos genetics. And what was the purpose of breeding them? When you say you have the ability to care for the babies what do you exactly mean by that. I'm mainly bringing these points up because at the end of the day the animals shouldn't have been bred and should not be bred in the future but those 3 points are really important to understand and know when it comes to breeding.
tawny musk
either my mom takes me ot my grandma
quaint comet
and by genetics i mean their morphs, parents, any sort of conflicting pairing information etc.
tawny musk
sadly i didnt get any information about the parents of the geckos
tawny musk
i dont know
quaint comet
Okay. So if the female is gravid, and does lay eggs. You are going to have to cull them.
because it is extremely unethical to just breed to geckos together without knowing their genetic makeup.
tawny musk
Okay. So if the female is gravid, and does lay eggs. You are going to have to cu...
what do you mean
quaint comet
the animals that they produce should not be sold or put out into the market because they would be low quality animals + they could have genetic issues because the pairing was not a high quality pairing / you do not know their genetic history, if the animals had any genetics that conflict with eachother etc.
culling means in blunt sense. freezing them.
tawny musk
culling means in blunt sense. freezing them.
freezing who
tawny musk
why tho
quaint comet
the animals that they produce should not be sold or put out into the market beca...
this is exactly why
you bred two animals that you just said you have no information on.
tawny musk
what if she lays a egg and its a baby in there
quaint comet
you still freeze it.
quaint comet
That is one of the tough things about breeding is knowing that you have to cull sometimes.
and in this situiation. you cull.
tawny musk
but can i breed her in the future
tawny musk
why
quaint comet
they are not high quality animals with known genetics.
they are pet only animals.
!breeding
minor kindleBOT
tawny musk
so if i get another female when i am older and know alot i still cant breed them
quaint comet
If you wait til you're older, and come up with a good project with animals that have properly known genetics and such. you can.
but the two you have now. you should not breed.
quaint comet
it's still just throwing 2 geckos together
silver basalt
I just want to say that your overall attitude towards the situation is a little worrying, your main focus should be fixing the issues you have now with your reptiles and moving forward from there. Self education is important, and an extremely long process.
quaint comet
there was no actual plan or mentoring from a good quality ethical breeder, no research into the leopard gecko market. etc
quaint comet
ANYWAYS. TLDR: she needs a vet 
that's the main thing. And keep us updated if you're able to get her into one!
gaunt tiger
No one hates you.
gaunt tiger
Ok.
tawny musk
see you for now
gaunt tiger
See you whenever.
tawny musk
We called a vet that knows a lot and he said that she just needs a lot of food cuz all the food in the tain she is taking for energy and stuff so she will be fine in some time but if it gets worse I will have to go to the vet
sweet pagoda
a certified exotic !vet? i would look for a different one and take her asap. making a judgement like that without seeing the animal doesnt necessarily sound like a good practice
minor kindleBOT
tawny musk
a certified exotic !vet? i would look for a different one and take her asap. mak...
I have been to him before and he is good with all animals and he has done a lot of research and stuff so I will listen to him
If she gets thinner then I will take her
unique gull
Does anything in this thread still need input by a breeder? I read up but don't know if OP still has any questions / concerns just let me know
Ping reply to me if you do
tawny musk
I mean if a breeder can talk to me then sure
sweet pagoda
Does anything in this thread still need input by a breeder? I read up but don't ...
tldr basically is animal was bred and 10 days after went from first pic to second.
question was if any of stomach enlargement and tail thinning could have been due to breeding (egg development) but general consensus was that that was too quick for that and it was something else. potentially being in contact with a different animal caused spread of illness? impaction from clay? not sure. needs a vet. but yeah if you had any input on that
unique gull
Sure give me a sec
A very slight (almost unnoticeable) amount of tail weight loss is normal during the breeding season but usually doesn't show up until the second or third clutch at least. Losing that amount in the tail is imo unrelated to the pairing. Gecko looks a bit dehydrated as well. Expect eggs within 2-3 weeks. Would 100% recommend freezing them.
I would also be very concerned about impaction being a possibility
At 10 days the follicles are barely dime sized, they don't cause that much swelling in the abdomen
This is also assuming that the female was ovulating in the first place, if they're in the northern hemisphere it's a little earlier than typical if the female wasn't brumated
sweet pagoda
the substrate is excavator clay forgot to mention (just woke up lol) so yes that was another guess
unique gull
If it's possible to get a pic of the stomach thru a clear container it would be super helpful. But vet intervention is likely needed
oblique topaz
I have been to him before and he is good with all animals and he has done a lot ...
i am not gonna lie to you, i think he's wrong.
a gecko rapidly losing weight requires diagnostics, not a phone call.
tawny musk
ok
oblique topaz
the substrate is excavator clay forgot to mention (just woke up lol) so yes that...
btw it had previously been loose sand several months ago, if you missed it
sweet pagoda
i did i was partially mentally clocked out reading this last night