how often should I handle

[wanton parcel]

So I honestly handle my baby at least.. once or twice a week, depending how and when he comes out of hiding and if he ate before or not.. yet I feel like it's not enough (?).. any opinions or thoughts.. please and thank you

[austere yacht]

we suggest 1-2 times a week C:

[wanton parcel]

Even if it means taking him out himself?, is it alright to do it till he gets restless.. like trying to hide, run off and just getting restless in general?

[austere yacht]

We vouch for / typically suggest choice based handling meaning the gecko chooses to come out or not

[wanton parcel]

Most of the time he's always hidden.. only comes out once or twice a week or even to eat and like goes back to hidding or taking the heat lamp (since it's very cold where I live)

[austere yacht]

with our current knowledge of leopard geckos they are not an animal that gets enjoyment from handling and mainly tolerate it. and that varies from individual to individual

some may never want to be handled and some may tolerate it / walk into your hand on their own. and that's perfectly okay if they do not wish to be handled

it shouldn't be something that's forced.

Health reasons like going to a vet or supplying medication are a bit different but if it's specifically for leisure handling it should be choice based ❤️

choice based handling also isn't something that may happen right away. It can take time for the animal to feel comfortable enough to walk into your hand

[wanton parcel]

Ahh I see I see. He usually let's me pick him up rub his head and body and all but after a certain time he gets restless to the point it's hard to handle him so I put him back and he hides until his next feeding... he only walks on my hand when he's crawling on me and lays on my shoulder etc..

[austere yacht]

just as a note you shouldn't be petting the leo either! ❤️

if that's what you mean by rubbing his head and body

[wanton parcel]

Ohhh .... not even gently rubbing him?

[austere yacht]

they're not mammals and a lot of the responses we associate with mammal positivity are actually stress responses in reptiles!

so we generally just advocate against petting since 1. they're good at hiding stress, 2. we as humans typically only apply mammalian responses and may think it's positive when it's actually negative

[wanton parcel]

Oh okay, thats good to know, it's just usually very gentle rubbing and he stays completely still and doesn't move at all, even closes his eyes, that's why I never thought it was a bad thing

[austere yacht]

ye the eye closing is a stress response with a lot of reptiles!

same with when they arch their back or tense up to being pet. Some people think it's positive cus cats do that but it's not a positive response with our current knowledge. so better safe than sorry C:

[wanton parcel]

,_, oh.... oh damn 🥺 well thank you very much it means a lot.. so for handling just.. let em do their own thing?.. correct ?

[austere yacht]

yep! If he wants to come out and walks into your hand that's great! you can then gently cusp him and move him to a safe location :3 if not. just let him be

if you think about the eye thing. We sometimes close our eyes / squeeze em shut when we're scared or as a negative response so it makes sense that other animals would too

[wanton parcel]

Yeah that makes sense.. thank you.. so much for that.. I have another light question.. is it stressful to move and add stuff to their enclosures? To have more stuff for them to move on and such?

[austere yacht]

That can actually be a form of enrichment!

Leopard geckos have been studied to have novelty recognition

Meaning they know when their environment changes

[wanton parcel]

I'd that a good thing? To add and take out and move stuff around?

[austere yacht]

Maybe not like everyday but once in awhile I don’t see why not!

Like moving a stick slightly to a different area or adding a new hide somewhere c:

Changing up how things are stacked etc

When I spray my humid hides my cork pieces get placed slightly differently because I have mine hidden and buried and I feel the geckos always investigate more afterwards

Gives their little brains something to go ??? About and chug

[wanton parcel]

Yea yea! I'll work on that, I don't really see him move.. his always bidding mostly after finding the underground ish hide I made for him.. he likes staying in places he usually knows.
But I'll try to change it up when I clean it,

Thank you for the information.. it's helped a lot.. honestly now I just feel bad I may have been giving him more stress than love inngeneral..

[austere yacht]

Its okay 💖💖 our brains sometimes forget not every animal feels or thinks the same way we do

[wanton parcel]

He'd just stare at me with big dilated eyes and I'd think it's a good thing.. it's sometimes he'd close his eyes but he'd always be "bright and alert" when out .. I thought he'd enjoy it..

[austere yacht]

Atleast you don’t have a sassy one

My male will walk out willingly and then when he gets sat down or walks onto the floor from my leg he angy tail shakes

Like ???? You chose to go down there ????

[wanton parcel]

True.. I love my Lill baby and I just wanted to know if it was okay not taking him out as often or things.. cuz even my mom is like "I wonder how sad/depressed he is for always being in the box.."

[wanton parcel]

Pfttt nah, mine Is a drama queen, if his food doesn't move he doesn't want it, and if he does get down he R U N S or just tries to hide.. but I think it's cuz he feels it's too open

[austere yacht]

Ideally their tank should provide enough enrichment for them to where they won’t feel bored! While my geckos walk out on their own I can say they are content in their tanks (atleast I hope ) and even without moving stuff around I’m currently trying to do more with weather patterns and lighting to try to simulate the actual environment to better their psychological wellbeing! So there’s a lot you can do without necessarily having to hold them to provide enrichment :3

If your tank is big enough and you wanna try something you can get a sturdy Tupperware that’s a good size for your Leo and make a hole in the lid / have someone make a hole in the lid and bury it to make a little underground hide!

Mine really enjoyed when they had one and often slept in it :3

Gave them a different temperature gradient and a different area to be in

[wanton parcel]

This is his current one.. the top left is raised cuz I have acable to check the temperature inside, ..I really really wanna work on it more

[austere yacht]

Was looking for these but

She enjoyed it very much

[wanton parcel]

I need to get more substrate to change it out too..and I need more hides and stuff for him to climb up and things.. I'm saving up a little piggie to buy him stuff since I just had like 2 accidents and I've been a little tght.. but I really hope I can buy him more things..

[austere yacht]

That tank is very pretty!

[wanton parcel]

Oh she's adorable!

[austere yacht]

I’m assuming either you’re saving up for a thermostat or the little probe cord??? there in the pic is for it

[wanton parcel]

Omg u think so!? 🥺 watcha recommend for it more?.. (I honestly wanna get rid of the tube but.. he goes under there to absorb the heat/lay w my mom to watch the tv(?).. and that right corner he always goes bathroom there behind the tree-

[wanton parcel]

Oh it's already in there, there is a place to put the thermostat but I'd had to put it under all the substrate.. so I just opted to fo it from the top, since he can't really climb out-

[austere yacht]

Thermostat if you haven’t already got one to control the heat source/ lamp (if he needs 2, one for each) and maybe some cork pieces/ driftwood or branches for height and cover :3

[wanton parcel]

I made sure it doesn't get in his way and cover it with the vines

[austere yacht]

The thermostat probe should be on whatever his basking spot is! (If you don’t have a solid one like basking stone or a flat hide perhaps I’d get some too!)

Your thermostat regulates your heat source to keep it at a safe temp

[wanton parcel]

Oh okay! Yeah! , the one on the right can be controlled, the one on the left is just in case it gets too too too cold and drops bellow fhe wanted temperatures

[austere yacht]

I figured the left one was a che/dhp

[wanton parcel]

I have little thermostats all over his enclosure they're slightly hidden since they are close to where he usually hides

[austere yacht]

Yeee so those are thermometers

[wanton parcel]

Oh yeah thermometers my bad-

I need to get a second thermostat too

[austere yacht]

If the che/ night time heat source isn’t on all the time I’d hook your main heat source up to the current thermostat you have and move the probe to the recommended area!

!setup

[queen palm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/446319772934864907/848716508532310036/heatUVB_setup_map.png

[wanton parcel]

It is on most of the time since now its been supper cold even at night so.. I try to keep it low but not completely off but not completely high either

There's been times where it drops bellow the wanted temp but he's just on that side on top of the like.. tube "absorbing" I think the light warmth..(?)

[austere yacht]

Ahhh I see. Yeah in that case I’d try to get a second thermostat when you can ! Just don’t wanna accidentally cause a house fire or accidentally burn the babey.

But yes besides the slightly off probe placement, maybe a little more clutter and the need for another thermo for your supplemental heating / main heatsource (whichever one needs it) it’s a nice tank c:

[wanton parcel]

Also... he doesn't really.. have a Baskin area (?) Or maybe it's there where he lays under the tube? He just lays and chills there

[austere yacht]

You could find some non porous stones outside maybe that are flat enough and place it under that hide!

It would then act as a basking area :3

Which is where the probe would go in that instance

[wanton parcel]

Yeah! I'm saving up for that along w a few more of the things mentioned too, ans I need to get another Uvb bulb too I've had this one for a bit, though he never comes our for it

[wanton parcel]

Oh I see ! Okay! Yeah I'll try to hind stuff, cuz I don't have any where I leave.. I live in apartments-

[austere yacht]

I don’t have a hide on top of mine cus mine are under my rocks but :3 somethin like that

[wanton parcel]

Ans I don't trust.. the area.. to just grab something from outsids

[austere yacht]

Doesn’t have to be as big as mine LOL.

You can but slate tile and flagstone pavers at home depot and lowes

Annnd you can also check local landscaping companies!

I got 16 rocks from a local rock guy for 34 bucks

[wanton parcel]

OH OKAY! YEAH I THINK I CAN FIND SUM!

[austere yacht]

So sometimes rock places/ landscaping places are goated

[wanton parcel]

Yeah I was thinking f that too! And I actually go out of the city for like 2 days sometimes to go "campin" so maybe I can find something too

[wanton parcel]

Yeah I'll keep it in mind thank you so much for thr tips and well, information ..

[austere yacht]

No problem! C:

[wanton parcel]

He's in the living room where ma watches tv.. and we've caught him.. literally just.. staring at the TV?

[austere yacht]

If you go camping in an area that has like oak trees or other hardwood trees you can also collect branches and stuff like that from them for tanks!

Trees like pine and evergreens are a no but otherwise

[wanton parcel]

Even better ! Yeah!

[austere yacht]

My boy lemon has tried to fight my computer screen before

I think the flashing colors makes them go

[wanton parcel]

RIGHT!? ... sometimes when he does.. stand outside and let's me scoop him up.. and place him on my chest, he'd just.. Stare at my TV or my laptop and just chill

[austere yacht]

Apricot the little orange girl you saw has bit my phone before

[wanton parcel]

I thought at first it was a sign to get him to come out cuz he'd let me... but I guess not.. yet he'd be so chill and just climb walk around explore and be looking at everything and anything

[wanton parcel]

Mine has only bitten my finger once- and barely makes any type of sound unless he's hungry or sneezes (rarely)

[austere yacht]

I’ve been bitten a few times and it’s mostly by apricot cus she thinks everything is food

What’s your little guy look like :0?

[wanton parcel]

This my lill handsome boy........ lowkey think he's a mix of a giant(?) And a normal one cuz .... he doesn't look obese yet he won't go down from 120

[austere yacht]

OH A CUTE ALBINO BOY

What’s his name

[wanton parcel]

Is he?- 😭 I was told he was.. but then he wasnt... but he was?-

[austere yacht]

Yes he is lol

[wanton parcel]

Albino huge boy over 11 inch.... size of my forearm

[wanton parcel]

Kevin the cheeto

[austere yacht]

LOL

I love that

[wanton parcel]

It was kevin the chicken cheeto

But that's because when he was a baby he looked like raw chicken, but he grew into more solid bright ish colors so we just kept the cheeto cuz , cheeto fingers ya know?-

[austere yacht]

[wanton parcel]

But it's kevin for short-

[austere yacht]

I got a battered raw chicken if you would like to see

[wanton parcel]

Yes-

[austere yacht]

I know albinos like the back of my hand cus I own 3

[wanton parcel]

LOL

Yeaahh I was always cautious with his uvb cuz he's a albino..

[austere yacht]

It’s he

The silly raw boy

Breaded and buttered raw chicken

[wanton parcel]

AWWEEEEEEEE

HE SO HANDSOMEEEEEE

[austere yacht]

Hims a good boy

[wanton parcel]

Him look like polite good boi

[austere yacht]

So content during sunset

[austere yacht]

Luckily with an exoterra tank albinos can have a 7% just fine and I think the reptisun 5% is good up until like 10 inches away from the bulb

[wanton parcel]

Wow that's big-

[austere yacht]

Oh I love his face

What a sweetie

[austere yacht]

The trio are in 4x2x2s :3

[wanton parcel]

I don't remember the one he has now- but I knownits a good one cuz I remember asking ya- since before he used to not have it cuz he never came out for it- he still doesn't,_,

[wanton parcel]

It still looks big-

[austere yacht]

To be fair none of mine come directly out in theirs but they cryptic bask!

[wanton parcel]

He very much is.. supper sweet boy never complains or bites or hisses

[wanton parcel]

Tru tru!

[austere yacht]

Kevin is very much a Cheeto

Very pretty orange

[wanton parcel]

It's the thought that counts-

[austere yacht]

definitely can see the Cheeto dust fingers analogy

[wanton parcel]

I agree, he used to have a white ring around his head , now he doesnt-

[wanton parcel]

YUP

[austere yacht]

Atleast your Cheeto is nice

Don’t let the face fool you. She draws blood

[austere yacht]

LOOK AT THAT LITTLE PINK FETUS

[wanton parcel]

HE LOOKS LIKE THE RAPTORS FROM JURASSIC PARK 😭😭

[austere yacht]

SHES SO FERAL

LIKE ????

[wanton parcel]

That's why he was called raw chicken 😭

[wanton parcel]

JESUS!?-

[austere yacht]

He was so orange too as a baby I’m crying

I’m assuming he has some tang in him cus I’ve never seen a baby that orange and also pastey LOL

And I have an albino tang LOL

[wanton parcel]

I know 🥺 my lill baby

[wanton parcel]

Possibly

Doesn't explain why he's so big tho..

But not obsesse

Yet not skinny

[austere yacht]

I’m not the best with genetics but some leos are just large and some are super petite. Doesn’t have to have the giant gene / lineage to be large either.

It’s also possible he could be a giant but that would need confirmed lineage to be like “yeh”

[wanton parcel]

Yeahhh but I'm just happy he's supper chill.. supper a drama queen too, sometimes he'd not eat even if he sees it moving and it just stops... if he misses he turns around and leaves-

Or, even after bitting it he'd let go of it and not eat it
... unless it's a new one

[austere yacht]

[wanton parcel]

Sassy lill ass but I love him deeply

[austere yacht]

It be like that

I own an aft as well and she has been brumating since October

Pain in my ass cus she hasn’t eaten for me yet and is eepin but

I love her

[wanton parcel]

Aweee, ye mine ate.. 2 roaches med.. sized ones, but very lazily, mizzed the strike too, but he just chilled with me for a bit. But he was too cold so I put him back and he was just chillin