Hi its me again I have a few questions.

[gentle finch]

I have made a post or two but i have a few more question

[arctic socket]

what's up

[gentle finch]

oh hi

[arctic socket]

also did the store actually give you an age? 😮

[gentle finch]

8 months!

[arctic socket]

oooh! He looked like an adult to me so i gave you the wrong dusting schedule last night 😭

[gentle finch]

Ohhh

[arctic socket]

ANYWAYS what's your questions lmfao

[gentle finch]

He isnt that big it was a close pic

[arctic socket]

(i'll send the correct one in a second)

[gentle finch]

so my mom obv thought the worker was right so hes staying with the carpet

will he be okay?

We are gonna get him a dig box when hes an adult so in around 8 months

but not the whole floor]

[arctic socket]

I would show her this video and explain to her as to why it's not safe

[gentle finch]

oh

[arctic socket]

besides holding bacteria because it cannot be truly cleaned, they can get their nails and teeth stuck in it

and hurt themselves

paper towels will be your safest option if you cannot do loose substrate

[gentle finch]

1 sec

but would he be okay with the carpet i just dk if hell be okay

ill send a close pic of the original box rq

[arctic socket]

We've said no it's not safe

It's a health hazard

[gentle finch]

ok

[arctic socket]

!repticarpet

[limber totem]

If you are set on using a solid substrate (even just for part of the enclosure), repticarpet is not a good option.

Repticarpet has several issues. The first is that it holds onto bacteria and therefore must be cleaned very frequently or it will become a hazard. Once a week minimum with soap. This is difficult because it is both time consuming to wash it frequently and to wait for it to dry (which takes quite a while).

Repticarpet is also prone to getting teeth and nails stuck. This issue may be noticed less in new carpets, but as you continually clean it and it undergoes normal wear and tear from being in the enclosure, the fibers become more loose and will likely start catching on teeth and nails frequently. You can trim fibers that appear more loose as time goes on, but this will not entirely negate the issue. Getting teeth or nails stuck is dangerous for your leopard gecko since, at the very least, it is stressful for them, and at the worst, it can lead to injury.

Repticarpet is also very unnatural in general and not enriching for your gecko. If you plan to use partial or full solid substrate, rock tiles are a far better option.

Note: sand mats, which are often seen as a more natural counterpart to Repticarpet, should also not be used for some of the same reasons.

[gentle finch]

so i have a ritile carpet right?

[arctic socket]

yes

tiles from a hardware store are also an option but paper towels are far cheaper and easier to clean

[gentle finch]

he hasnt seemed to get stuck yet

[arctic socket]

It’s not a matter of if he has it’s a matter of he can and it’s a risk qvq

[gentle finch]

if im not able to get substrate for him would he die? Ive seen people with the repticarp on yt and their geckos seem healthy?

[arctic socket]

Besides your mother is there a reason why you don’t seem to want to use paper towel?

[arctic socket]

He could get injured by accidentally ripping out a claw or teeth in which you would probably then need to go to a vet

[gentle finch]

1: Because she would think its a waste of money to take out the carpet
2: She listens to whatever a worker says

its mostly just her not wanting to not listen to a worker

[arctic socket]

I see.

[gentle finch]

i sent her the vid

[arctic socket]

Also YouTube is not a good source for information just as a future heads up qvq most of them support outdated care

[gentle finch]

oh okay

also he doesnt come out much

of his hide

[arctic socket]

He’s new so that’s normal

[gentle finch]

ok

[arctic socket]

It’s stressful being in a new place

[gentle finch]

he also hasnt drank anything

i have a water pool for him so he can drink or if he wants sit in it to cool down

[arctic socket]

So! With leopard geckos they get most of their hydration from feeders who have been gutloaded (which is feeding them with veggies and such!) we still provide them water to drink but I’ve rarely seen mine actually use their bowl

They also aren’t an animal who actually soaks commonly. If your leopard gecko is frequently soaking there may be something wrong with the temperatures and such

[gentle finch]

Heres some tank pics btw

im getting him some more plants and another hide

i need to feed him veggies?

[arctic socket]

The insects not him

[gentle finch]

OHHH

Ohkay

[arctic socket]

You feed the insects something like baby carrots

[gentle finch]

yeah

[arctic socket]

And then feed the bugs to him

C:

[gentle finch]

i feed crickets these water orange things and roaches carrots

and mealworms dont get to eat

[arctic socket]

All bugs need to eat

They can all eat carrots

[gentle finch]

oh okay also

is there anything else i can do to my tank to improve it?

Also shes said no to these

[dapper comet]

WHAT

[gentle finch]

1: Thermostat
2: Substrate (I asked again)
3: New UVB as she googled it and shell beleive anything

[dapper comet]

Talking about a leo?

[gentle finch]

ye

[dapper comet]

No 😭

[gentle finch]

is he okay with 10. uvb?

[arctic socket]

No

[dapper comet]

Pls research diets n needs before getting an animal

[arctic socket]

They’re 13

[dapper comet]

Oh okok

[gentle finch]

YOU REMEMBERD😭

[dapper comet]

Have you linked him the guide ?

[gentle finch]

yes

[arctic socket]

I’m not sure what else I can offer your mother besides offering her to talk with one of our breeders here or members who work in the pet store field. We have sent the guide yes and it has the most up to date information

[gentle finch]

i read most of it but my mom is paying for most my stuff

[arctic socket]

The one downside to the internet is that anyone can post something and a lot of information is outdated because of it

[gentle finch]

what if he stays with a 10uvb?

[arctic socket]

Most websites don’t follow scientific data and still post information from 20 years ago

[gentle finch]

would he die?

[arctic socket]

UV burns are a thing iirc but let me double check on that

And he really needs a thermostat because an unregulated heatsource is a major health risk

[dapper comet]

He can yeah

[gentle finch]

oh

[arctic socket]

Empeon please disclaim what you say.

[dapper comet]

More about fungus and bacteria/ infection

Fuck didnt i ?

[gentle finch]

heres tank bt

w

[dapper comet]

Sorry I'm not a professional, I own geckos so I only talk about experience

Apologies for not clarifying it before, I'm hopping between conversations

[gentle finch]

its ok

He also has alot of shade so if he gets hot he could move

one side of the tank is cool with no lighting the other has heat and uvb

[arctic socket]

One question. Is your mother willing to pay to take the animal to a vet if something happens to it

[gentle finch]

she would

she loves animals

she would rly do anything to keep one alive if it gets sick

[dapper comet]

The carpet stuff is more expensive on the long run, since you'd have to disinfect it regularly due to feces and insect remains building up bacteria

[gentle finch]

and i mean if he GETS sick

[arctic socket]

Without buying the proper uvb , heat regulations and substrate the gecko could get injured and yes it could die

Burns are not something to be risked, necrosis is not something to be risked. Everything we’ve suggested it to keep the animal safe

You have no way of telling how hot your actual bulb is getting which could accidentally lead to the gecko being burned because it ends up being too hot

[gentle finch]

is their anyway i can lower the uvb without a new one? such as putting a black screen under it?

[arctic socket]

Turn it off. And get supplements to dust with

[dapper comet]

Also most decoration I see are rock stuff and they get extremely hot

[gentle finch]

rn she tells me "The people that have soil probably have to take the gecko to the vet to unclog its throught after it accidentally eats the soil"

[dapper comet]

Not rock but like- heat substracting stuff

[arctic socket]

I will be blunt in the fact that most reptile store workers have 0 fucking knowledge on updated husbandry. And only suggest what they sell because it makes money or it’s something they heard years ago and think it’s still okay to use.

[gentle finch]

yeah she doesnt beleive me

[arctic socket]

With proper husbandry and care loose substrate will not harm your gecko. We have countless people here who have had their animals on it for years and they are perfectly healthy because their care is correct

[gentle finch]

i also could use my own money, ive been saving for a laptop but i think it would be better to use on him

[arctic socket]

It would

The laptop is fun but his health and care is more important now that you have him

[gentle finch]

how can i tell her he wont choke on the soil

[dapper comet]

I was sold a gecko infested with parasites (died shortly after that)and the other only had 5 fingers in total

[gentle finch]

exactly

[dapper comet]

Simply tell her you tongue feed or have and scape proof dish

[limber dawn]

In the wild these animals naturally walk on the soil mixture we suggest.

We can't replicate their soil a 100% yet but what we have currently is close.

[dapper comet]

It shouldn't be free eating from soil

[gentle finch]

yeah but i mean the crickets run freely and he catches them

[limber dawn]

They can easily pass the soil we recommend with proper overhead heating.

[dapper comet]

He should not eat dirt catching a cricket if hes healthy (not a dangerous amount)

[gentle finch]

i could tell u how hot the light is rq

[limber dawn]

How?

What tool are you using to figure that out?

[gentle finch]

a thermometer

where should i mesure the heat from?

floor up to the light?

rn in the 95-102 range

[limber dawn]

Let me see what it is.

Send a picture first.

[dapper comet]

Infrared thermo or traditional one?

[gentle finch]

k 1 sec

idk she said no to substrate all about "🤡 impaction"

[dapper comet]

Easy:paper towel

Or- no substrate

Ja?

[gentle finch]

thats the thing she said no to all that

[dapper comet]

Mama mia

[gentle finch]

All she says in inpaction and no soil

so idk what to do

[dapper comet]

You cant get a refund can you ?

[gentle finch]

no we cut it to fit the tank

[limber dawn]

Can you show her the guide?

That has scientific sources.

[gentle finch]

shes at work rn i will when she gets home

[limber dawn]

And have her read through it.

If you wish for her to talk to one of us then she can.

[dapper comet]

Do you get a monthly pay?

[gentle finch]

Wdym

[dapper comet]

Pay her back if thats the issue

[gentle finch]

Oh yeah but not rn

Can u send guide?

[dapper comet]

I will vemo you istg

[gentle finch]

!guide

[limber totem]

Server: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SKbLFeeE4pxPQdi4EP3-elTuvVSfAw3L/view?usp=share_link

[gentle finch]

Oop

[dapper comet]

[gentle finch]

ok ty ill show it to her

i just want him to be okay without a hipocrit not letting me help him

[dapper comet]

Btw, geckos love to dig

[gentle finch]

ik

[dapper comet]

So repticarpet is like

Antigecko trap

[gentle finch]

she said we can get him a dig box when hes 18 months

[dapper comet]

It makes me so sad

[gentle finch]

ikk

i love him alot but i just want him to be ok

[dapper comet]

He gotta be over the age of consent obviously

He cant get a dig box before that

[gentle finch]

😭

yeah

thats why 18 months

when hes an adult

[dapper comet]

Wtf

No fucking way

Do they not dig before that or what ?(sarcastic)

[gentle finch]

idk

i guess they do but a worker said 18 months i have no idea why

[dapper comet]

If impaction is the issue she shouldnt be considering a dig box

Fishy

[gentle finch]

yeah

[dapper comet]

Do you have a cat ?

[gentle finch]

yes

i close my door

im allergic so they cant come in

and now i have him they def cant come in

y?

[dapper comet]

Maybe repurpose the carpet as a scratcher

[gentle finch]

its my mom tho

she wont

[dapper comet]

So it doesnt needs to be thrown out

[gentle finch]

shes not gonna throw it out

shes already said no substrate

[dapper comet]

Idk what else to say

Good luck

[fluid pebble]

something like textured tile/paper towel will probably be easiest for your mother to transition to since its not loose. it also isn’t recommended to have loose substrate unless your heating/temperature situation is following that of the guide so before any talk of loose substrate id assure other husbandry aspects are able to be taken care of since it seems she makes the decisions.
if you have any further questions flops please ask here

[gentle finch]

ty

[gentle finch]

ty but shes not giving up ill update you all if she does give in

tyy

[fluid pebble]

you could also bring up the fact there might be potential vet bills with the use of carpet since they can get stuck to it and potentially have necrotic toes. sometimes those types of conversations will persuade a parent into changing it since its their finances that would be used

[gentle finch]

Ive tried but of course all workers that work at a tropical fish and reptile store know everything about a certin species

in quotes

[dapper comet]

Are you from Spain?

[gentle finch]

why no😭

[dapper comet]

Sorry reminded me of exactly the shop i go at hahah

[gentle finch]

LOL

Im from the US

[dapper comet]

Worth the shot

Ive had a lot of crazy coincidences

[tacit sandal]

i work at petsmart if she'll listen to me.

fed also used to work there, iirc so did red.

some others here work at petco, dont remember who

but yknow.

as someone whos in charge of cleaning reptile carpet every week, its absolutely filthy.

i feel bad for any reptile that has to step on it.

[gentle finch]

We are getting him texture tiles

@tacit sandal is that ok?

[tacit sandal]

paper towel is literally so much better and easier

not sure why yall would rather spend more money than just use paper towels

[gentle finch]

It's not me it's her 😭

But is it better than the carpet?

[tacit sandal]

what kind of texture?

is it soft?

[gentle finch]

Thus is the farthest I could get her to budge

[arctic socket]

!substrate

[limber totem]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917259635847737375/1063263829812842496/substrate-options.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811393932617056259/872297424553644134/VimXqF2Q.png

[gentle finch]

What should we get?

[arctic socket]

make sure it's like what the first image suggests

[gentle finch]

We didn't get yet

[arctic socket]

non slippery, shiny coated tiles

rough textured slate stone tiles etc

[gentle finch]

Should we get rough like sand

Ok

[tacit sandal]

not rough like sand lol

[arctic socket]

you mainly just wanna avoid the tiles like you would have in your home. the coated kind

[gentle finch]

Yeah

[arctic socket]

"rough" as in just rock

[gentle finch]

Oh ok

Can I put the repticarpet in his hide?

Would it be more comfortable

[arctic socket]

no he'll be okay without it

[gentle finch]

Okay

Anything we can use it for?

[arctic socket]

if you wanna use it around your house somehow sure

for him though no

[gentle finch]

Okay ty

[tacit sandal]

repticarpet could work for an art project lol

[arctic socket]

maybe a coaster for your drink

[tacit sandal]

tank cover

[fluid pebble]

tape to outside of tank for a background perhaps

[gentle finch]

@tacit sandal I upgraded his tank, worker said until he's 18 months be weary of the carpet but then use a mix of soil and sand!

Finally a smart employee

So he can have soil at 18 months

Old

Here's the new cage

He's exploring rn

There's alot of places to hide

[tacit sandal]

he can have the soil and sand mix when hes out of quarantine only if his heat and temperatures are correct

that cant be regulated without a thermostat

[gentle finch]

it says its 81f and 30% gumidity in the middle

@tacit sandal

Is that okay

on the warmer side its in the 90s on the cooler ints around 80

[winged pollen]

still suggest removing the repticarpet for paper towel. As peachy has explained its much safer and its cheap

Is there a humid hide, warm hide, and cool hide?

[gentle finch]

yep!

we also change from 10.0 uvb to a 5.0 uvb

[fluid pebble]

what are these temperatures being measured with

[gentle finch]

a suction cup thing that goes on the tank

[tacit sandal]

thats a thermometer, not a thermostat

[gentle finch]

ik

[fluid pebble]

what does it look like, i am assuming analog thermometer which is very inaccurate

[gentle finch]

ill send

[winged pollen]

I was told to remove mine tbh

[gentle finch]

here is the tank

[winged pollen]

Ooh my bad! Those arent what i thought you meant haha, disregard my statement abt it

[gentle finch]

oop

[fluid pebble]

i cant comment on the brand quality but is it always outside the tank like that? or was it just for the pic

[gentle finch]

idk where to put it

inside or outside

[winged pollen]

I thought you meant the circular ones that come with the tank bundles

[gentle finch]

ohhh

[fluid pebble]

most people recommend one on the cool side, one on the warm side. it goes inside the enclosure

[gentle finch]

he seems to like the new plants and hides now

ohhh

btw is it normal for him to stay on 1 side alot?

[fluid pebble]

the decor is looking good so far great job

[gentle finch]

He stays more on the left

[gentle finch]

bottom right is a good pic of it

[fluid pebble]

you just got him right? so yeah

[gentle finch]

yes

also we changed from 10.0 uvb to 5.0

[winged pollen]

My male stays near his basking spot most of the time

[gentle finch]

we also got him some more vitamin things

[gentle finch]

ooo

will he ever go to cool side or humid

?

[fluid pebble]

also, for basking temperatures you will need a temperature gun. ideally your basking spot should be something like slate/rock which you could easily find outside as long as it isn’t porous and you clean the rock. we have a link in !shoppinglist but there are other brands too

[limber totem]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zW8Nq-6wF5ZAeq7j4cE7Bwa9EpXqKhIX/view?usp=sharing

[gentle finch]

he stays in this most of the time here

[winged pollen]

Id assume so! my two use them when needed or wanted, my female is shy though so she only comes out at night

[gentle finch]

Top right

in pic top left

[winged pollen]

I use slate slabs for my basking spots

[gentle finch]

that like stair thing

[winged pollen]

Must like it there then. Since he’s new he may take a while to get used to the other hides

[gentle finch]

also is it normal that he onlt explores when im not in the toom?

room

ill walk in and hes in another part of the cage than his normal spot

[winged pollen]

yeah, mine did that for the first while

We are big scary humans at first haha

[gentle finch]

my cat did that when i first got him too

i guess alot of animals do it

my tank is more of a tropical vibe idk why but ust the greenery

[winged pollen]

I own hamsters and they do too, its just going to take time for the animals to get used to us!

[gentle finch]

so when he is done with quarentine the worker that is educated on leos for once said 20%sand and 80%soil?

[winged pollen]

i think 70:30 of soil:playsand is most reccomended, it might be 60:40 i forget

[gentle finch]

they can digest soil right?

[winged pollen]

Mhm, a QA person mentioned they can if temps are all correct : )

[gentle finch]

and also does he look healthy rn i cant tell?

[winged pollen]

from what i see he does actually, let me see if i can use the command

[gentle finch]

i fixed the carpet btw

[winged pollen]

!weight

[limber totem]

https://imgur.com/a/YGKap3i

https://i.imgur.com/9EYXn1M.jpg

https://imgur.com/a/kFcPfhD

[gentle finch]

he looks healthy!

[winged pollen]

For example my two fall into the first middle image tbh

[limber dawn]

Did you mean to ping me?

[winged pollen]

Crap, no i didnt! I forgot to turn it off. My apologies

[limber dawn]

You're good.

[winged pollen]

There it goes again

[limber dawn]

I was a bit confused.

[gentle finch]

I feed him every 3 days 3 crickes with c powder, 2 gobee roaches, and as a snack everyday 1-2 mealworms

is that a good diet?

i feed the bugs too

carrots and stuff

[winged pollen]

how old is he first?

[gentle finch]

8 months

[winged pollen]

Seems like its alright to me, i fed mine every other day till they were abt a year i think

whatever they can eat in 15 minutes

[gentle finch]

i just feed him alot every 3 days 🤣

also 2 meal worms as a snack a day is ok?

[winged pollen]

I feed my adults once or twice a week

[gentle finch]

he will even come out to find them

[winged pollen]

im sure thats okay if they’re smaller

[gentle finch]

and is okay to let the crickets and roaches run free in the tank when i feed him so he has to catch them?

[winged pollen]

since he’s currently on repticarpet id definitely suggest them being in a bowl so he doesnt get any teeth caught

[gentle finch]

i put the mealworms in a bowl

[winged pollen]

But take my answers with a grain if salt, im not for qualified advice on this but am saying what i know from what ive asked here before c:

[gentle finch]

i also put them in his hide so its easier for him to catch them

[winged pollen]

I, too, have a parent who believes pet store employees on these things, and I understand the struggle sometimes of trying to convince them about this stuff

[gentle finch]

yeah

thats exactly her 👹

[winged pollen]

My dad for me. Then my mom believes him. It took some articles and a lot of pitching in with my money

[gentle finch]

I just hope he likes his home

[winged pollen]

It took me a year or so, and im still working on the tanks actually, and their husbandry

What matters is that you’re willing to listen and try to improve

[gentle finch]

btw is a 30 gallon tank big enough for him?

and is it to cramped?

[gentle finch]

heres pics

[winged pollen]

clutter is good! 40 gallon is the thriving minimum though

[gentle finch]

so i need a bigger tank?

and should i move things around

on the pics thats how it is rn

[fluid pebble]

it is a 36x18x12 right?

[gentle finch]

30 gallon and idk else

if u can tell by pics

[gentle finch]

Here

[fluid pebble]

yes i saw it appears to be that i just wanted clarification if you knew

[gentle finch]

idrk

[fluid pebble]

if it is that size then upgrading is not a priority rn. floorspace is meeting minimum thriving requirements just lacking the proper height for climbing and could potentially cause problems with uvb being too close/uvi too strong

[gentle finch]

5.o uvb

rn

5.0

[fluid pebble]

what brand? and what type of bulb?

[gentle finch]

its a tropical one bulb since it was 5.0 instead of 10.0, no dif except uvb

brand is

zoo med

https://www.petsmart.com/featured-brands/zoo-med/

[fluid pebble]

i think you sent the wrong link but i assume zoomed reptisun. would have been a red and gold packaging

[gentle finch]

no

all same brand

zoo med

[winged pollen]

this?

[fluid pebble]

i know what zoomed is yes

[gentle finch]

YES

[fluid pebble]

so its a compact bulb

[gentle finch]

ye

[fluid pebble]

ideally youd want a t5 bulb i dont think i have any charts for the compact version uvi but i can go check if there are any. those bulbs aren’t recommended for reasons stated in !lighting

[limber totem]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811393932617056259/872297610310991902/mT9891pQ.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811393932617056259/872297666762125372/ZxguER9A.png

[gentle finch]

yeah my moms not getting anyting else 😩

we also have d3 supplements

for him

so he should get it from that too

[fluid pebble]

they arent the most reliable style of bulbs and occasionally have the potential to be dangerous due to this spotty output. is it 13w or 26w

[gentle finch]

13

[winged pollen]

It would probably be better to not use the uvb bulb you have atm and just supplement more often with d3 especially bc those bulbs arent the greatest also w/ the 12in tank heating/uvb in general can be iffy. There's a supplement/feeding schedule somewhere for gecko w/o uvb iirc.

[gentle finch]

ima gt bed but ill be here tmrw!

[tacit sandal]

peachy provided a list of things to get in order of importance

[gentle finch]

gn!

[tacit sandal]

got buried

[fluid pebble]

this is all ive got as of charts for that bulb depending on how you have it set up. its not precise unfortunately. leopard geckos are in ferguson zone one which is ideally a uvi of .5-1.5 max. i personally do not recommend that style of bulb and wouldnt use it myself even with a solar meter however but hopefully these charts help

i do understand parental limitations so i wont be pushy with needing everything exact and perfect as long as a reptiles wellbeing isnt in danger

[tacit sandal]

yeah i think there are definitely leos in much more dangerous situations out there. but if youre gonna take anything out of this thread, its gonna be that you need a thermostat over all else

[gentle finch]

@tacit sandal Hi hes moving around his cage more with me around is that ok?

[tacit sandal]

just means hes getting used to you

[gentle finch]

also

i was trying to feed him a meal worm and he bit the tweezers before i set it down

is he o?

ok?

he didnt seem hurt he just kkept chasing it

[tacit sandal]

nqa yes thats just what they do. anything that moves is food

are your tweezers metal or plastic

[gentle finch]

metal

[tacit sandal]

ah okay, if he keeps striking the tweezers get rubber tipped ones so he doesnt hurt himself too bad

[gentle finch]

but is he ok rn?

[tacit sandal]

yes hes fine

[gentle finch]

ty

[winged pollen]

Had to do that for my male, you know who im talking abt

[gentle finch]

Hi @tacit sandal again, I have a few more question

So yk he's 8 months old, all these are coverd with c powder, I feed him 2 meal worms every day, and every 3 days 3 crickets and 3 roaches

Is that a good diet?

[tacit sandal]

nqa you generally wanna feed him as much as he can eat in 15 minutes, once every two days

so your feeder rotation is great, but youre not meant to be feeding him everyday because hes already 8 months

[gentle finch]

@tacit sandal

How much calcium should i put in his bowl?

[tacit sandal]

nqa a little.
i just filled up a bottle cap

[gentle finch]

he cant overdose right?

it has no d3

[tacit sandal]

you also dont need to ping me every time you ask a question

[tacit sandal]

he cannot

[gentle finch]

oh sorry

and also

nstead of feeding hhim every day with 2 meal worms

should i feed him every 3 days 3 cricets 2 roaches and 2 mealworms?

Becausw i would ust ive him worms as a snack

[tacit sandal]

nqa yes. better to feed an 8 month old once every few days rather than every single day

seems like a good amount

[gentle finch]

and instead of using his carpet we got a safe liner thing thats textured

is that ok?

[tacit sandal]

can i see?

liners are generally also not super recommended because they can offgas under heat and uvb

[gentle finch]

we didnt get yet

[tacit sandal]

okay

thats good

dont get a liner