Isotope

[thick trail]

Do you have any code yet or is it just the logo?

[analog schooner]

it's only the logo so far. I'm themeing it around it

I have almost no C experience and i need some help

i try to learn, but manuals end up with me making Deltarune fangames from the amount of words there are.

:p

[thick trail]

Well, I'd recommend learning C really well before embarking on OSDev.

If you try to learn C while doing OSDev, you're not making things easier for yourself.

[analog schooner]

where is a good place to start?

[thick trail]

with a beginner's C tutorial

I mean

depends how much programming experience you already have

[analog schooner]

i know basic syntax and how to call int main() {
//code here
}

[blazing grove]

...

throw that out basically

you need to understand linkers and executables to start it

[blazing grove]

https://codeberg.org/Limine/limine-c-template-x86-64

here

a template to start

[thick trail]

no

[thick trail]

yeah, then look up a tutorial that covers C thoroughly

[nova yacht]

i think this is like giving someone a car to drive and letting them loose on the road when they havent learned to walk yet

[analog schooner]

i'd probably crash the car either way.

I was going to have this as a project so that I could build as i learn, so pessimism won't be helpful

[analog schooner]

so you're saying syntax doesn't matter? If I learned anything from my experience from developing games, is that no matter what experience you have in a field: it will be useful.

[blazing grove]

well, basic syntax yes

tho it is def not enough

i was referring to the int main thing

it's not used

and that's not how it works in an OS

also, have you ever coded in other langauges?

[analog schooner]

JS, Python, HTML, GDScript, bash, and Lua

although JS brings me nightmares

[blazing grove]

you might try c++ then

might be simpler in some cases

[analog schooner]

is C++ as low level as C? (and do header files exist? it's the onl area that i mastered in C)

[blazing grove]

yes

it's c with classes and namespaces

• other cool stuff

[analog schooner]

ok, im going to try c++

[blazing grove]

and also helps to prevent silly stuff with memory

you can still do it

but it helps a bit by separating cast types

[analog schooner]

so im going to go down a rabbit hole rn

wish me luck

[blazing grove]

gl, it's not that hard once you know the basics

[analog schooner]

oh

my

gosh

[blazing grove]

?

[analog schooner]

i remember C++ from when i tried QT Creator

[blazing grove]

lol

[analog schooner]

it sent me down a rabbit hole

and i failed miserably

[blazing grove]

qt is a separate thing

don't worry about that

thinking with classes and namespaces might actually help a lot

[analog schooner]

thank goodness there won't be any QtButton::whateverthispartis

[blazing grove]

well, that is basic c++ syntax

tho you make the classes

so you know what they do

[analog schooner]

im off to the grind. 🫡

[blazing grove]

what ide will you be using?

[analog schooner]

Pulsar Text Editor (above)

[blazing grove]

...

[analog schooner]

the packages make it easier

[blazing grove]

pls use at least vscode or even better: Clion

[analog schooner]

ok.

[blazing grove]

clion is one of the best for c and c++

vscode can be too with the right configs and extensions

[analog schooner]

sudo dnf install clion
???

[blazing grove]

use jetbrains toolbox

you are on windows?

[analog schooner]

nope. Fedora Linux

[blazing grove]

...

why are you using windows icon pack, bruh

[analog schooner]

bc i likey

:p

also the default breeze icons look bad to me

[blazing grove]

i switched away from fedora directly, lol

and went with arch

• hyprland

[analog schooner]

My 2006 laptop could never

im scared of how many upgrades i gave it

[blazing grove]

anyway, CLion should be available via flatpack

if you want

idk if they made it free now for community or it's still paid tho

[analog schooner]

hoping its free

Free for non-commercial use
CLion is now free for non-commercial use. This means that students, hobbyists, and open-source contributors can use it without charge, as long as they are not using it for commercial purposes. This change opens access to a wider audience, removing barriers for individual developers not engaged in commercial work.
JetBrains
+3
from bing

[blazing grove]

gg

[analog schooner]

wait its by jetbrains

[blazing grove]

ye

[analog schooner]

[blazing grove]

wdym?

[analog schooner]

they always pull last minute signups

[blazing grove]

no?

[analog schooner]

so i avoid it

also it requires an account (why does it need one????????)

[blazing grove]

to check for licenses, bruh

[analog schooner]

i'll stick with vscode

[blazing grove]

lol

[analog schooner]

idk what to do lol

im just staring at it and burning my eyes

[nova yacht]

learning a programming language by writing an os is like learning architecture by making the empire state building

take a step back and get to grips with the toolchain and language first

this place will be here

[analog schooner]

im just going to use C++ as a support for the Lua framework the OS will be built around

before you say it, i know Lua is not low level

[blazing grove]

....

yeah gl with that

i suggest you start with the basics first

leave lua integration way later

[maiden token]

oh god lua being used for the entire os??? why have you done this

[nova yacht]

you need to know a lot of C++ to do this

the actual kernel can't be done in lua

[analog schooner]

im talking about system apps

and i've already began mapping out the folders

[analog schooner]

also i have been learning, so you can't just assume skills stay stagnant

[nova yacht]

you might want to look at what I did, as all my system apps are in BASIC

but still, if you don't know C++ yet a kernel isn't a good first project

dismiss the facts all you like

I look forward to seeing what you make

(actually do)

[analog schooner]

if you read it, it was a project to make as I learn. NOT a first project.

completely different

[analog schooner]

it's going to need support from C++ to work, if that helps

[analog schooner]

i realised PyQt is better so im running python for app code.

typing this from the web browser for my OS that custom-made

[lean river]

Ditrium hydrogen OS:

[nova yacht]

lmk when code or screenshots

[analog schooner]

#include <iostream>
#include <fstream>
#include <string>

int main() {
std::string username, password;
std::ifstream infile("credentials.txt");

if (infile.good()) {
    std::string storedUser, storedPass;
    infile >> storedUser >> storedPass;
    infile.close();

    int attempts = 0;
    const int maxAttempts = 5;

    while (attempts < maxAttempts) {
        std::cout << "Username: ";
        std::cin >> username;
        std::cout << "Password: ";
        std::cin >> password;

        if (username == storedUser && password == storedPass) {
            std::cout << "Access granted.\n";
            break;
        } else {
            std::cout << "Access denied. Try again.\n\n";
            attempts++;
        }
    }

    if (attempts == maxAttempts) {
        std::cout << "Too many failed attempts. Access locked.\n";
    }

} else {
    std::ofstream outfile("credentials.txt");
    std::cout << "Create a new username: ";
    std::cin >> username;
    std::cout << "Create a new password: ";
    std::cin >> password;
    outfile << username << " " << password;
    outfile.close();
    std::cout << "Credentials saved. Restart to log in.\n";
}

return 0;

}

could you test it? it will link into the main kernel loop soon.

[thick trail]

that looks like a userspace program running on top of an OS rather than an OS kernel

[analog schooner]

it's a command line login for the built-in console.

also, how much RAM does our brain have?

just a thought

[tight onyx]

It doesn't have any

Not even as an analogy

The model of a computer maps pretty poorly to the model of a brain

[thick trail]

my brain has zero bytes of RAM

[thick trail]

anyway, having a built-in kernel mode shell is generally considered a bad design decision
also, in your case it would require implementing the C++ standard library inside the kernel

[thick trail]

everyone joins and say this

but in my experience, it never works out

[analog schooner]

(almost) Every linux distro has it available by pressing Ctrl+ Shift + F2

[thick trail]

nope, login and shell are not implemented in the kernel

the kernel has no concept of usernames and passwords

it just knows UIDs and GIDs

[analog schooner]

this one is it's own login display manager, like sddm

[thick trail]

I mean, sure, but that's its own separate userspace program

and has nothing to do with the kernel

[analog schooner]

exactly, its supposed to be a separate program that opens into the kernel.

login is just an illusion.

[thick trail]

But shouldn't the kernel be loaded first to even be able to run such a program?

[analog schooner]

that's what im doing right now actually. It will first open the kernel, launch the login screen while suspending processes, and then it will show the desktop and kill the login process if you logged in correctly.

i'll take a break. i've been working for hours

[nova yacht]

this is just windows? I don't get it. it isn't the program you shared the code of

[thick trail]

I guess they're saying that they're running their own browser in Windows.

[nova yacht]

I guess. nothing here makes sense

I don't want to come across rude, but this feels like trolling to me

[analog schooner]

because it isnt, and i'm still running linux. I'm running the apps there first because I need to actually get them working before exporting to the OS. I just used a Windows icon pack because the Breeze one looks bad

[analog schooner]

it's not a troll. I'm trying to integrate apps first and getting it to run Python. I'm going to base it off of the Linux kernel and change the code to C++.

then i'll change Desktop environments, add a unique package manager, add a console app, include WINE for Windows/WinNT compatibility, and then it'll be half done.

you know what, I'm just going to delete this post.

if people think my effort to learn C++ is a troll and that i just shouldn't be doing this because I have "no experience" (I actually have some. if you read my introduction), I guess i should just stop

I have a lot on my plate already, and this took a lot of planning to do, and i guess it was just a waste.

[nova yacht]

but this isn't how it works, you write apps in your os

or make an OS that accepts portable code and port apps

and the fact you're saying you'll just port wine, shows you really don't get it

and a package manager and a WM

if you want to actually do this start small

with just a kernel

go from there, not at the user app end

because you don't even have an api to connect apps to yet and it 100% won't be identical to linux

[analog schooner]

(im prototyping how they'll look, and i'm planning to include WINE as my own port through LOTS of configuration and recoding) I get that it won't be identical, and that's the point. I don't want it to be linux. I'm taking the kernel and basing it off of it. I get that I may seem inexperienced, and I get it. I get how WINE won't work without an actual kernel to read it, so I'll use the Linux kernel. Android did it, so why can't I? I get i don't get some stuff, but I've basically had to change how I used fedora by changing so many GRUB options, removing a DE, changing to X11.

i get that im a little (maybe a lot more) inexperienced, I just decided to step outside of my field of expertise for once and try something new.

(sorry for the paragraph)

[analog schooner]

the post is closed and will be deleted

[nova yacht]

you can do it if you do it in the right order. kernel first. if you look at what everyone else is doing they make the kernel first for a reason. if you just take the Linux kernel that isn't really hobby os dev though but you could make something of it.

[analog schooner]

i deleted my kernel already because i did it completely wrong :p

[nova yacht]

I'm sure you can get it right. you're a game dev yes?

think of writing a kernel as not writing a game engine but as making an opengl implementation in software

it's 90% reading and implementing specs

then you put your game engine on top (syscalls abi, etc) then the game (user apps)

and just like when someone says "I'm going to make a game engine" they often don't realise it's nothing like making a game

[analog schooner]

I get it, so putting a Desktop environment on it is kind of like choosing your renderer, and the kernel is the game engine you chose.

i began doing it and my laptop's about to blow. who knew changing the linux kernel would turn my laptop into a jet engine?

[nova yacht]

the laptop fan gods demand a sacrifice

[analog schooner]

should i jump in the portal that just opened?

chat im scared

[nova yacht]

bring a chicken

[analog schooner]

mine are still hatching.

[analog schooner]

i have roast chicken if that works

[nova yacht]

no it must be live for sacrifice. also bring the blood of a virgin, the Egyptian book of the dead, a goat and a crucifix.

[analog schooner]

im not in egypt

I'll just bring a baby chicken and a goat named Egyptian book of the dead. if that works.

[nova yacht]

nah there's no shortcuts

unless you have the necronomicon, a boomstick and a chainsaw.

[analog schooner]

i have Running up That Hill on repeat just in case...

[analog schooner]

ok, I;m 1/100th of the way of trial and error. C is really hard when using it for OS dev