Kvass (vibecoden't)

[ocean ore]

oh

CRPA I DONT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING

[raw prairie]

The user apps that MMAP it get the file in memory

[ocean ore]

driver do that im not responsible

[pliant glen]

kvass

[ocean ore]

if the driver gets a write or copy file operation it can do whatever it wants with the request but i suggest it writes instantly

[raw prairie]

You could also just have a generic block level cache for the block device

And then copy things when needed

But that’s slower technically

So when the user MMAPs and then hits a fault

The FS will copy it from the page cache to you

Or some shit

[ocean ore]

i think the biggest problem with my idea is multitasking, because the part that some other process wants will be nuked and now it has to wait for it to get unnuked

[raw prairie]

And then to reclaim memory it can just OOM kill you or just unmap pages marked like that and they can be grabbed later

[ocean ore]

sane people call it a queue and most of you people call that a spinlock

[raw prairie]

You un nuke on page fault

You do it lazily racially

Basically

Fuck autocorrect

[ocean ore]

racist VFS

[raw prairie]

You should name your VFS that

But as like race cars

[ocean ore]

no im just gonna put it as a quote or something

// "racist VFS"
//       - either joe biden, or some other idiot

[raw prairie]

😭

Let me dm you somthing you could do

[ocean ore]

k

CONFIDENTIAL: IF ANY INFO FROM THAT DIRECT MESSAGE IS SENT TO THE PUBLIC YOU ARE LIABLE FOR THE LOSSES OF THE COMPANY! THE MESSAGES EXCHANGED ARE TRADE SECRETS AND THEY MUST NOT BE DISTRIBUTED AT ALL!!! EVER!!!

[raw prairie]

Btw @ocean ore that’s more so block layer part

For the VFS

You uhh use vnodes

[ocean ore]

yes

[raw prairie]

That then link to the file system

Etc etc

[ocean ore]

yeah linked list crap

[raw prairie]

And then a mount table

[raw prairie]

Not really I don’t think

[ocean ore]

idk

im probably gonna abstract the actual vfs away with fancy handles and such for userspace

because in reality the nodes are connected by physical addresses

i have to map these in

[raw prairie]

That’s what you do anyways

But you have to like map in the file blocks themselves

Just the file

Like the pages that make up the file

[ocean ore]

()

[raw prairie]

And you only read them from disk on a fault and if it’s not in cache

Otherwise map it properly

[ocean ore]

fair

ok honestly i need to first even get to that point without ragequitting

[raw prairie]

(Once you have the data to do so)

[raw prairie]

🥀

[ocean ore]

i think what ive thought of is good enough imo

[raw prairie]

Maybe I should just put the fry’s in the bag and skip MMAP files for now

[ocean ore]

processes need to setup event handlers

thats the only evil thing

[raw prairie]

Does anything majorly require that tbh?

[ocean ore]

but its a driver what else is it supposed to do

[ocean ore]

idk

im thinking if a task can only get one event a time or what

if its processing that event then probably stall every other task waiting for it

if that task doesnt process the event then commit 9/11 on it

ok honestly this multitasking crap is both difficult and not really difficult

ngl i dont want to add smp for powerpc

most macs dont use it

the ones that do and actually need the performance should use linux

i only know of two high end power mac models that have more than 1 cpu or cpu core

the dual core G4 tower and a bunch of power mac G5s

and like

no other thing

maybe some power macintosh tower from the late 90s

[raw prairie]

Do you mean signals?

[ocean ore]

idk

[raw prairie]

If a task has too many events

It stops getting them

That’s it

[ocean ore]

true

[raw prairie]

Unless it’s a KILL

In which it kills it

[ocean ore]

if a task gets more than like 5 events then other tasks should either spinlock or skip the call

honestly i should add a userspace with SOME systemcalls first before bothering that much with this crap

[tough socket]

spinlocks r bad

[ocean ore]

m

understandable

[tough socket]

shouldnt be ur preferred way to uhm. to uh. uh. uhm..... uh. to uh. uhm

synchronize

[raw prairie]

Have your scheduler support proper mutexes

So when they lock

And it’s not free

It blocks your task

And goes to another

[ocean ore]

can i first print a HELLO WORLD OR SOMETHING AASHDJKASDHJKASDKHJASKJHDAKJHSD

i havent even entered the kernel yet

i mean i was the first one who did the "oh guys lets plan a vfs"

anyways whatever

im gonna figure it out later probably

whenever i get to it

ok anyways gtg shower

[tough socket]

also do not use vnodes to represent the vfs hierarchy

[raw prairie]

vnodes are just ref counted objects right

And using open() gets you one

[tough socket]

theyre whatever you want them to be but sure

[ocean ore]

ok so what should i use

[raw prairie]

I forget is it a new vnode every new open()?

[ocean ore]

i need a vfs now actually

[tough socket]

no

[raw prairie]

Or do they get reused for the same file

[ocean ore]

bootloader does some crap

but like just the structure for now

[tough socket]

the vnode is the unique in-memory representation for an on-disk file

[ocean ore]

nothing fancy

[ocean ore]

yuh

[raw prairie]

Is there a good way to map the file name to the vnode then?

[ocean ore]

ok afk im gonna come back and read whatever text wall pops up

[raw prairie]

Hashmap

[tough socket]

dirent cache

[raw prairie]

Explain

[tough socket]

no

[raw prairie]

[tough socket]

dont look at dragonflybsd's implementation they duplicate it per-core and keep changes in sync with a log or something

its scary

[ocean ore]

a

my current system is that i just have a node somewhere in physical memory and its addresses link to other physical memory thingamabobs

im gonna probably rework it to use some fancy handles instead of straight up physical memory addresses

ok so im gonna go make a horribly basic vfs system tomorrow

[ocean ore]

i think i figured out how i want it to work

[ocean ore]

when i come home i also need to finish setting up gentoo

[raw prairie]

You need to make your mk68k port

[ocean ore]

tell me where the part that actually boots the kernel is

there is none i need to make it

[raw prairie]

I also wonder if it would be fun to design my own m68k based computer

Than build it

And have my own OS run on it

[ocean ore]

mine*

m68ks arent produced anymore i think

[raw prairie]

eBay

[ocean ore]

[raw prairie]

Or an FPGA

[ocean ore]

honestly idk if the mac boot protocol is documented for the 68k

ik theres a crap ton of other pcs with tge 68k

but this is mainly for macs

amiga kvass

[ocean ore]

KVASS BITCOIN RIG

https://tenor.com/view/linus-torvalds-linux-red-hat-systemd-linus-droidvalds-meme-gif-10541460064743329819

WERE GONNA GET SOME MONEY AY

ok so openfirmware is still scary

just thought of how im supposed to obtain pci devices

on x86 not on ppc

[raw prairie]

ACPI

[ocean ore]

its either acpi or enumerate manually

[ocean ore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1262570686799675405/1459351543227748444/image0.gif

[raw prairie]

I’m pretty sure it’s fixed tables for PCI?

But you have to probe them

[ocean ore]

i think

idk i have to either write an aml interpreter myself or steal uacpi

[raw prairie]

Fixed tables aren’t AML

[ocean ore]

NO CRAP SHERLOCK

im prolly just stealing uacpi

aml is stupid anyway

[raw prairie]

Yeah you don’t need AML I don’t think

You just use the standard tables

To find the start of the config space

Probe the first bus

Check for bridges

Then find the bus they represent then probe those

And it’s some basic math to calculate the buses to the MMIO from the base

https://wiki.osdev.org/PCI_Express

[ocean ore]

aeeesddfgf d saw a

thats why x86 sucks

pci is probably the least bad part of this crap

im honestly just gonna integrate uacpi or smth into the kernel due to me not wanting to spend a crap ton of time on adding a programming language

[raw prairie]

No

This dosnt use AML

It uses tables

Which are basic data structures

And easy to parse

EG

You don’t need uacpi

[ocean ore]

i know but acpi contains a bunch more devices too

[raw prairie]

You could always do aml parsing in userspace

And just do tables in kernel

And you don’t need aml for pci/e

Which means you can delay it to even mounting the root disk

[ocean ore]

does anyone even do that

[raw prairie]

I will

[ocean ore]

anyone but you

[raw prairie]

And @minor prairie Is gonna too

[ocean ore]

... wanting to

is there anyone who actually did it

[raw prairie]

I bet managarm does something like that

Because having an AML parser

Probably isn’t too micro

[ocean ore]

no betting isnt enough

idk man im gonna bother with this acpi crap later

or pci

mainly pci

i need to check pci crap and construct device tree

[ocean ore]

at least on x86 i have to

on powerpc open fartware did it for me

[ocean ore]

vendors, device types, etc

acpi is probably even scarier because there might be a security thing if i let a process do too much

[raw prairie]

Mamagarm has uACPI

BUT

@ocean ore

Gotcha

Do it

[ocean ore]

https://tenor.com/view/tyler1-loltyler1-screaming-dead-wtf-gif-17500255

[raw prairie]

Bye bye now go have fun

[ocean ore]

in a million years

theres no x86 yet

https://tenor.com/view/all-roads-lead-to-rome-time-rabbit-gif-9497165517404307883

[raw prairie]

See you then

@ocean ore you just made my power shut off

As soon as you sent that

My power fucking turned off

And back on

😭

[ocean ore]

the rabbit??

Time. . .

[raw prairie]

Yes

😭

Your a time god

[ocean ore]

no ask the actual god why he did it

im not a god

[minor prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/who-pinged-me-ping-tudou-mr-potato-cat-gif-22762448

[raw prairie]

Me

[minor prairie]

ah why

[raw prairie]

This

[minor prairie]

oh yeah

I will

if I get the motivation to work on it :(

[ocean ore]

GENTLEMEN AND UNGENTLEMEN ITS TIME FOR ME TO FINISH SETTING UP GENTOO

[ocean ore]

i just set up arch instead

lololol

im gonna now copy my powerpc gcc

i copied my powerpc gcc

wait no not yet

waiting

now i did

i got powerpc gcc now

i can kvass again

[ocean ore]

mutually assured destruction is scary

[ocean ore]

funny thing, my virtual memory addresses have to be 64 K aligned

because screw you thats why

one page is gonna be 128 K due to funny tech reasons

so memory addresses have to be 128K aligned

[raw prairie]

whyyyy

[ocean ore]

ibm

[ocean ore]

ok so im gonna go on a quick side project

i figured out how to do polygon rendering on scratch so im gonna make a 3d engine rq

i got bored at geography class

[ocean ore]

FILLED polygons

REAL polygons

untextured

it adds to the aesthetic

[ocean ore]

ok so i forgot the actual audience on scratch

yall better know what circus that is

the most the kids know is raycasting, and thats because griffpatch told them

[raw prairie]

i never interacted with that community

but i used it

[ocean ore]

the trending tab is depressing

its geometry dash and platformers with the same player sprite copied everywhere

[raw prairie]

🥀

[ocean ore]

or this

i thought this was bad with the sheer amount of amd64 operating systems

my rotate over x variable makes the triangle smaller

braindead 3d algorithm

[ocean ore]

behold magnificent 3d plane

software rendering is interesting

how much crap can you put before your computer explodes

wait

was the super fx chip a gpu or a second slightly more powerful cpu

it is a cpu

but its used for graphics processing

techically its a gpu

[ocean ore]

lol someones trying to scam me probably

its time for a big troll

anyways my side project is fine, probably

[ocean ore]

funky z layering

i think i need some other place to store my stupid 3d side project in

[raw prairie]

Do you do depth buffering?

Or some thing

[ocean ore]

not yet

[raw prairie]

There is a spot in the other place you could use

Or something like #1008410029990367284

[ocean ore]

where

[ocean ore]

true

honestly i should make a gpu like the vmware svga

somehow

except itd be cool if it was like an actual physical thing

ok so im gonna go generate myself a hmmmm hashmap

use it for that stupid 3d renderer and make z layering work

or not

ok honestly should i do it on real hardware for the funny

the stupid 3d engine

[ocean ore]

im probably gonna work on kvass later

[ocean ore]

i give up i dont want to 3d anymore

it died

[ocean ore]

never let me do 3d graphics again i am NOT built for that

literally im so bad at 3d anything

so heres the plan

give kvass an absolutely insane 2d pipeline for literally no reason

i mean youll get amiga type graphics

thats a good thing except the amiga cant run doom

anyways so im gonna work on kvass

3d is scary my brain hurts more than openfirmware

compromise: make kvass mode 7

idk why im obsessed with graphics crap

BECAUSE I WANT TO BE OBSESSED WITH GRAPHICS CRAP

MAS*UIDJKASDASJDASDJASDASKJDHASKJ

[muted talon]

when cyberpunk on kvass

[ocean ore]

cyberpunk software rendering

[raw prairie]

LLVM pipe

[ocean ore]

3d engine made on scratch vs llvm pipe

[silent jay]

"CIRCUS HOP" Damn, it's really saying what it is in itself.

[ocean ore]

i remember still speaking to scratch users

they are literally "depressed" (they made up some mental illnesses for themselves for some reason)

[ocean ore]

scratch can barely process 400 something polygons

i revived my stupid engine project

time to optimize yeehaw

i cant optimize

how

[ocean ore]

the app store page for microsoft word is so funny because they have to explicitly state what they collect and it straight up says word collects "location, contact info, contacts, user content, diagnostic info and user usage patterns"

lol spies

anyways so i got demotivated so ima work on kvass later

[ocean ore]

FOOLS

I AM MOVING TO A CORE 2 DUO

IT HAS A GOOD KEYBOARD

THE GPU SUCKS BUT I DONT THINK I CARE

NVIDIA IS STUPID

AAAAAAHSAHJDBNASDBANSDBNASD

anyways so like i need to finish my vfs but this entire thing is kinda on hold

ragequit on booting the system 😔

[ocean ore]

obligatory fastfetch

time to check if qemu runs at a reasonable performance

this fart has a mechanical hard drive

maybe i should replace it with an ssd

but i installed arch already and idk how expensive an ssd is

lemme check

1TB for 149 dollars

89 for 500 gigs

im looking at smasnug drives

crucial drives definitely work but we don't talk about crucial

ok thats more of a moment but i hate micron now

hate is way too strong for my feelings towards them

im sad for them i dont want to buy their stuff anymore

whenever they come back

[ocean ore]

$59 for 250 gigs

looks reasonable honestly

but man i just installed linux on an old fart and now im considering nuking it just because its being bottlenecked by a hard drive

ehhhhhhhhh if i have to i will nuke it anyway i dont store anything on main hard drives these days anyway

i actually dont store anything at all

except kvass source code

[ocean ore]

im gonna set up alpine lunix on my 2006 macbook which DOES have an ssd but it runs like a triple boot

(i still havent run it on my thinkpad yet)

[ocean ore]

ill never be able to use any other laptop keyboard again vro

this one is so cool

anyways so i fixed openfirmware virtual mapping

unmapping crap broke

i can peacefully load my kernel now

[ocean ore]

people i am basically almost ready to try actually booting the kernel

i set up enough crap to load it into memory without going insane

ok i actually loaded it

i loaded my fart into memory

so much time and yet this is simply a bootloader 😔

whatever

ok so should i load the kernel at ⁨0xC0000000⁩ or somewhere else

[muted talon]

bootloader is the hardest part

[ocean ore]

ehhh depends

[raw prairie]

Hey ppc needs a good bootloader

Yours sure is good

[ocean ore]

youve never seen it, insanely blind trust

[ocean ore]

i mean im honestly kinda lazy i dont want to make it an actual bootloader

[raw prairie]

Can it load files off the disk?

[ocean ore]

with like a fancy boot protocol

[raw prairie]

Don’t need to be fancy

[ocean ore]

it builds a vfs, gets device info and yes it loads the kernel off disk

maybe ill add in ramdisk support

its really kvass specific

literally searches for a file named ⁨kvass-kernel⁩ or whatever, its signature must be ⁨KVASS OPENFIRMWARE POWERMAC⁩ i think, and the bootloader itself is just called ⁨kvass-loader⁩

(the signature originally was ⁨OPENFIRMWARE SUCKS!!!⁩ btw)

the kernel must be a flat binary etc

[raw prairie]

Just have a config file to tell you what kernel elf to load and execute

(Elf loading is easy DW)

[ocean ore]

🤷

[ocean ore]

(objcopy is even easier )

i fr dont know if i should somehow spin this out into its own bootloader with a protocol and such

honestly thatd be cool id consider it

the kernel must still be a flat binary tho

[raw prairie]

Elf files are basically just flat binaries

And kernel binaries are static anyways

[ocean ore]

fine im gonna add elf support later

[raw prairie]

So you just need to parse the most basic aaa headers

[ocean ore]

the problem is that i cant really enumerate the file size @raw prairie

so the file size has to be put somewhere

in the file itself

[raw prairie]

The elf file tells you that

[ocean ore]

o

[raw prairie]

Like it says the size of every section etc

And where in the file to go

[ocean ore]

fair

im gonna add it later trust

i just want something that boots friggin kvass

[raw prairie]

My elf loader does not care about size 🙏

How about

I make an elf loader

For kvass-loader

And il submit patches

Because talk cheap

[ocean ore]

"send patches" -- ffmpeg

crap i have to rework my entire thing now

the stupid build system i made

for kvass AND for this stupid thing

[ocean ore]

nobody remembers greg these days 😔

he's like phoenix

rises right after he gets murdered

[raw prairie]

Your getting elf loading

[ocean ore]

aaaaaaaaa

[raw prairie]

[ocean ore]

nah do elf loading

anyways lemme just start copying crap now

im crashing out if this idiot doesnt boot

@raw prairie yo do you use a build system at all

idk if i should use one

[raw prairie]

Make files

[ocean ore]

ok fair

i mean i just have a configure script, and then that script is included in the makefile

its better than going into the makefile itself imo

[ocean ore]

this is kinda what the config script's output looks like

[raw prairie]

What you can do for your boot protocol

Is have section names you can check with the elf

And then have magic numbers and stuff

If you wanted a protocol for like something

Or even load the data to be fixed in memory starting at virtual 0

And then you move it yourself later

[muted talon]

wait gregloader??

[ocean ore]

its being resurrected

[muted talon]

the repo shall be resurrected i want to check out the code

[ocean ore]

im gonna open source it for everyone later

im too lazy to commit

[muted talon]

i wanna do an elf loader

im bored asf

pwease

wait wrong emoji

[ocean ore]

sir

[muted talon]

what sir

[raw prairie]

Btw @ocean ore is Greg loader little or big endian

[ocean ore]

it depends on cpu

(big endian on powerpc)

[raw prairie]

Idk how to make a big endian elf loader

As it’s a little endian format

[ocean ore]

RIP

idk i can consider making a little endian mode switch

later

i dont want to do it rn

[raw prairie]

I I mean

It would just be conversion on the header fields

So it should be fine enough for me to do

And il learn doing it

Or some crap

[muted talon]

please get me the repo i want to do kvass

oh wait i forgot i have the kvass kernel downloaded already

[gloomy mist]

what's the FRED role, this is new

[raw prairie]

Yes it’s new

I implemented a driver for FRED

I did it first

I got the role

[gloomy mist]

what's FRED?

[raw prairie]

Better IDT for rich people

[gloomy mist]

eh, I don't understand, is it an os or what

[raw prairie]

Interupt descriptor table?

An IDT

[gloomy mist]

yes? but idt has nothing to do with that name

[raw prairie]

The FRED is the new version of the IDT on very new hardware

[gloomy mist]

very new hardware of what arch

[raw prairie]

X86-64

I’m talking about the IDT

Lmfao

[gloomy mist]

why do we need a new version of the idt, what does it give

[raw prairie]

It makes it faster and you don’t need a table

It even combines system calls into the same system

It pushes a bunch of things onto the stack and called a function you set

And then you choose from there

[gloomy mist]

can it even be emulated rn?

[raw prairie]

It can be

With Intel SIMICS

That’s how I got a driver working

https://files.evalyngoemer.com/share/manuals/x86-64/fred9.pdf

Here read the spec

But this is getting off topic from @ocean ore s channel

[gloomy mist]

hmmmm it's going to be decades before everyone's using it in practice

I mean most systems still have support for PIC

Even though everyone moved to APIC years ago

we will just end up with three different ways to deliver interrupts instead of two

and still needing apic for ipis

[raw prairie]

Every x86-64bit computer has an APIC and almost 100% of systems have an IOAPIC

[gloomy mist]

ah I get it

but kernels are going to need to versions

iret/idt, eret/Fred yes?

[raw prairie]

yes but it’s not that hard

And again this is off topic for here

So may be better to move lol

[gloomy mist]

nah

if you want to only appeal to people with a brand new CPU sure

ah wait only read the last half

lol

[ocean ore]

but its not the latest build

[ocean ore]

maybe??

me no idea

also im now pissed at my choice (not regretting) at making the stupid kvass loader into a full separate bootloader

i have to rework practically everything in it

[ocean ore]

also im gonna always map the kernel in a BAT, if anyone wants to use full paging then go ahead but YOU remap YOUR kernel

you can use both bats and pages btw

wait

holy crap

vsids can have a format you made

theres no predefined algorithm

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1467543690200219659/1467629470650466436/meme-astonishment-2376330898.gif

i obtained a revelation on powerpc paging

this is severely mind boggling

how do i generate these addresses though

im not a cryptographer

or whatever

oh

[ocean ore]

motorola has a functional algorithm

they put it somewhere

free to use crap

the kernel is still loaded in a bat though

ALSO THE PAGES ARE 64K ARE YOU KIDDING ME

or not

schrodinger's paging

its a 19 bit number instead of a 15 bit one in the bats

ibm is there any particular reason to align bats by 64K and regular paging by whatever this is

i mean the bats are 64k aligned but they have to be at least 128k in size

i just align them by 128

[ocean ore]

nevermind thats the algorithm for a second hash value which uses a vsid for input

[ocean ore]

its 4k

regular 4k pages

ibm why

just so yall know how stupid this is the size for a page entry is the same size for one bat

theres several reserved bits after the 15 bit address

theres literally no way they couldve not used the reserve bits to make the address 4k aligned

psychotic idiots

also segment registers

it is picked depending on what letter your address starts

0 = sr0
1 = sr1

E = sr14
F = sr15

0xDEADBEEF would use sr13

it starts with a D

unless i cant count NOR do i know the alphabet and its actually sr12

segment register contain vsids or something

also you should always memset your newly allocated pt's with 0s

obviously

on all cpus

if some stupid crap happens with addr translation that will result in a bunch of unwanted flashy visual effects

(triple fault)

(possibly)

[ocean ore]

that second value is used for page table entry calculation

XOR??????!?!!?!?111?!??1

@raw prairie the paging might be better than what i told you it was

[ocean ore]

HTABORG is origin and HTABMASK is some stupid size thing btw

[ocean ore]

ok so this looks like addresses get a vsid appended to them depending on sr, then the vsid and page idx are xor'd and that makes a pteg

[ocean ore]

ok so im gonna do a hopefully reasonable explanation of powerpc paging

there is the page table

it has entries (duh)

a PTEG is simply 8 entries

it is nothing but 8 entries

there are no pointers to it like on other cpus its just 8 entries in the page table

every page table entry (PTE) has a vsid and the real address it points to

that vsid is (id say) revelantn't

the vsid is a 24 bit value

it can be randomly generated

it can even be all 0's

now heres complex crap

an effective address consists of the following

• 4 bit segment regiser (sr) value
• page index
• byte offset

there are 16 sr's

ok anyways yeah

sr's contain vsids

(essentially)

[ocean ore]

NO, this does NOT point to an entry that would be stupid

the 19 top bits of the vsid and the page index are FRICKING XOR'D

now you get the address of the pteg

i think

you CAN get it i meant

this is how you get the address

and now how is that final page table entry found?

no idea lol

you get a pteg address though

progress

oh also to make page tables you have to calculate all that crap i assume

thats how the cpu do it so you better do it how the cpu do it

[ocean ore]

note that in this case that 3 bit value may increase depending on the size of HTABMASK

probably

not sure

nvm theres simply no way for more trash to fit

[ocean ore]

use doom RNG table

ok im gonna be unironic here you actually can use the doom rng table

100% serious

i should do that

oh wait

[ocean ore]

only one pte in a pteg can be valid

wait tho

makes sense honestly

lemme read more

ok so yeah it makes sense

i understand now

anyways gregloader is gonna load crap into bats

bats are faster

im gonna use them for executables

or not

whatever

[ocean ore]

ok thats a lie too???

essentially its a whole mess im too lazy to explain

simple explanation is "its actually 4 per pteg"

[ocean ore]

greg is being summoned into existence

[ocean ore]

certified macintosh

its not even a gui its just graphical

maybe

idk im adding the boot picker for greg

[ocean ore]

im making a library to parse ini format files

im not gonna add write support

we have text editors

its for the greg config files

anyways im gonna open source it when im done with it

[raw prairie]

Can it load elf’s

[ocean ore]

im thinking of making an elf parser now

[muted talon]

santa claus parser better

pentagon bomb codes parser better

[ocean ore]

also im making the parsers portable so i can reimplement them in either the kernel or some other thing

especially the config file one

idk what i would need the psf and elf parsers for tho

[muted talon]

gdt on powerpc is crazy

[ocean ore]

brother

[ocean ore]

the psf one might be pointless because people are using flanterm

[muted talon]

flantermios

[ocean ore]

im gonna make my own terminal emulator probably, open source it later

[ocean ore]

flanterminator

ILL BE printf

[muted talon]

print_str_with_terminated_symbol_at_the_end_very_slow("Hello world!")

[ocean ore]

we have greg the grub ripoff, now kvass is gonna have crapterm

[muted talon]

in my case its PrintStrWithTerminatedSymbolAtTheEndVerySlow("Hello World!")

[ocean ore]

calling it f--kterm wouldnt exactly be appreciated by the universe

[muted talon]

fuckingterm

[ocean ore]

crapterm and greg vs flanterm and limine monopoly

[muted talon]

fuckingterm ™

[ocean ore]

resurrecting the war between powerpc and x86

[muted talon]

you got it its a fucking terminal

[muted talon]

power86

[ocean ore]

ok so i got tired of kvass being a total circus

im not sure if the almighty "crapterm" will even exist

it probably would because its funny

the boot protocol might be close to the open firmware one

BUT without the devtree

im thinking making the bootloader do pci enumeration

ok honestly the devtree might be useful for that

it might be complex to travel though

[ocean ore]

im probably just gonna make it dump a huge array with pci crap

or not

idk some cpus dont have pci io port crap

(powerpc)

[ocean ore]

what i meant is that theres no singular configuration address

i think you have to get it somewhere

idk ofw

[ocean ore]

the ini and elf parser libraries are no longer portable

because screw you make your own implementations this is osdev MUAHAHAHAHAHA /hj

[ocean ore]

the ini im using is a dialect of it probably

my comments are written with # and not ;

ini is honestly the best thing to come out of windows

straight up i think its the best thing they made ever

it would be cool if there was ini but with subsections but thats basically XML atp

and XML sucks

probably

it looks painful to implement

outright pain

actually wait no thats not xml xml has tags

im talking about smth like

[section]
    [subsection]
    key = value

this can have several uses like in a bootloader theres a style section and a boot entries section

anyways i have hands and a programming language im gonna implement that crap

[ocean ore]

except no idea how would it recognize subsections other than tabulators

[section]
      key=value
      [subsection]
           keyn't = valuen't
[section 2]

ajdbahsbajwbajjaoqoa

call that kvass configuration file idek 👍

[ocean ore]

ok so implementation details on this are a bit weird

maybe treat each section as its own config file

[ocean ore]

like out of this, if you ask the parser to enter section 1 then it might just look like this to the parser

key = value
[subsection]
    keyn't = valuen't

i need to make it so subsections are ignored if you want to access key

also if it finds a subsection it should probably seek a line that doesnt start with a tabulator to ignore it (in this case at least)

if it starts with 2 tabulators or spaces your kneecaps wont see the light of day again

if its spaces its just not a section anymore but if its two tabs then lol syntax error

[ocean ore]

ok so i did my config format

looks fine time to implement

[ocean ore]

apparently linus torvalds was a fan of powerpc

but the paging

[ocean ore]

time to attempt and parse this

[tough socket]

Didn't he notoriously hate the memory management

Which was mostly his fault because his kernel wasn't written generically enough

[ocean ore]

idk i think so

yeah he hated paging on power/ppc REALLY bad

[ocean ore]

lunix emulates port IO on powerpc, with outb/w/l and inb/w/l functions

theres a big endian and small endian version for each

some friggin #define toggles between what implementation to use

dont quote me on it but im pretty sure theres central out/in b/w/l's and then they just reroute to BE or LE

[tough socket]

I wasn't really referring to that

[ocean ore]

still

[tough socket]

More about Linux's mm depending on the existence of a multi level page table

[ocean ore]

oh

i feel like my mm might have a problem with that

i might depend on inverse page tables too much

i can implement something like that on x86 but like idk

im planning to make whats essentially an architecture specific back end for stuff like a vmm, it just maps addr's in and out

the "is that virtual address range used already or nah" is the job of the portable vmm thing

and other crap like "can kernel/user execute/see/write (to) this"

physical allocator might just be portable, its really the job of the bootloader to provide memory map crap

i forgot to specify what crap oops

[ocean ore]

gonna work on configs when i get home

my goal is to make some crappy hello world program for gregloader

[ocean ore]

idea: LINK the boot script and other crap into the binary thats gonna be loaded itself

this is so stupid but hear me out

actually no this is stupid dont hear me out 💔

but what i wanted to do is basically use this crap for like embedding boot info

such as at what address should the binary be loaded

[ocean ore]

linking a text file into an elf is something that might be possible but its definitely not practical

ehhh

my idea is to probably wipe the space of the text file and replace the contents with bootloader info

my idea is to have a relocatable (i think) callback function that can be used instead of the stupid tag system other bootloaders have

maybe not relocatable

map it at 0 or bust

my excuse was that it takes less space but this crap takes a BUNCH of space

especially the "lol lets link a text file into an elf binary" part

no putting structs in there would be too normal

[ocean ore]

maybe the stupid tag system is better actually

no idea

@raw prairie wanted me to do it

[ocean ore]

FOOLS I HAVE DECIDED CALLBACK FUNCTIONS AREN'T EVEN PRACTICAL

I THINK

idek you have to unmap them once done the system would suck on x86

everyone does their own cr3 anyway

OK MAYBE A CALLBACK FUNCTION MIGHT BE PRACTICAL HONESTLY

[ocean ore]

ok so im bored im making a linux distro

[muted talon]

new message detected

[ocean ore]

i should make the be related to kvass in some way

make a package manager port that to kvass later

custom init system

literally kvass if i made it linux based instead

[ocean ore]

idk if i should even do a custom init

but like

lunix

im gonna be one of the one powerpc distros

ok not but whatever

i compiled the kernel already i need

• glibc
• coreutils (evil crap)
• bash
• init system (probably make my own)
• package manager (also probably make my own)
• fastfetch
• bootloader (i want to add linux support to greg)

the 7 deadly doohickeys

technically 8 including the kernel

[muted talon]

port mash

[ocean ore]

to the linux distro?

[muted talon]

yeah

[ocean ore]

maybe

i need to make a non os progress thread about the thing

[muted talon]

https://discord.com/channels/440442961147199490/1469169777959239680

[ocean ore]

can this run programs?

[muted talon]

obv

[ocean ore]

cd better exist

[muted talon]

it has "variables", builtins

cd, cwd

and required 8 os-specific functions

5 of them can be stubbed

read it

[ocean ore]

fair

ima try porting it to kvass later if the lunix port doesnt make me go insane

[ocean ore]

why are variables in quotes

no environment variables???

[muted talon]

they function like registers but with strings

shitty but works

[ocean ore]

what how

[muted talon]

char S1[100];
char S2[256];
char S3[512];

[ocean ore]

[muted talon]

err: file '/bin/set' doesn't exist.
[makst] / % store S1 /home/makst/mash
[makst] / % ls $S1
Makefile  execut.c  inc  inch  main.c  mash  mash_linux.c  readme.md
[makst] / %

[ocean ore]

but variables like $CC??

[muted talon]

yeah i have envp

[ocean ore]

oh

[muted talon]

make runs perfectly

[ocean ore]

do these also function like registers??

[muted talon]

[makst] / % cd $S1
[makst] /home/makst/mash % make all
gcc ./inc/lg.c ./inc/string.c ./main.c ./execut.c ./mash_linux.c -o mash
sudo cp mash /usr/bin/mash
[sudo] password for makst: 
cp: cannot create regular file '/usr/bin/mash': Text file busy
make: *** [Makefile:8: cp] Error 1
[makst] /home/makst/mash %

nah envp is char**

[ocean ore]

oh

malloc

[muted talon]

thats a forbidden word

[ocean ore]

NOOAOAOAOAOA

[muted talon]

thats +1 os-specific function

[ocean ore]

ae

[muted talon]

thats -3 points of portability

[ocean ore]

i might port it to the lunix and then make it an optional package ngl

[ocean ore]

im bored so i decided to make an actual build system

[ocean ore]

least insane kvass related bug

[ocean ore]

dont call it that

im offended

(something broke again)

https://klipy.com/gifs/skeleton-banging-shield

what the FRICK is stack smashing

oh

ok thats horrible what 😭

what broke

[ocean ore]

now a function i made outright refuses to work

[raw prairie]

@ocean ore it uhhh

Means your stack got broken

Your doing undefined behavior

[ocean ore]

.

[ocean ore]

is my computer done cooked

[raw prairie]

Your program is

Did you overflow any buffers

[ocean ore]

then relaunch the program

[ocean ore]

yeah 😭

i fixed it

[raw prairie]

That’s what SSP prevents

[ocean ore]

anti smash stacker 👍

[vale vale]

stack smashing protector

[ocean ore]

https://klipy.com/gifs/skeleton-banging-shield

ok makes sense

[ocean ore]

everything as a file in linux is peak

peak keyboard code

ngl i wanna make a text editor

nano ripoff

i need to pull out more eastern european foods and drinks now 😔

[raw prairie]

call it micro

[ocean ore]

the build system is literally called borscht

[ocean ore]

that would be literally braindead

insanity

[raw prairie]

https://micro-editor.github.io/
already exists btw

[ocean ore]

[raw prairie]

its actualy a really solid eidtor tho

[ocean ore]

uhhhh VODKA

[ocean ore]

fair enough

[raw prairie]

vodka should be the name of the init system

[ocean ore]

why

[raw prairie]

vodka is what gets ya going in the morning

[ocean ore]

[ocean ore]

ok so theres also kompot

its like juice except its evil

allegedly

maybe i should call the text editor that

no idea

[ocean ore]

also what if the editor was also a vi ripoff, but it was called v1, and to save a file you have to do sick combos with an arsenal of guns

ULTRAtext

[ocean ore]

holy crap i figured out how to do live resizing if the window size is changed

peak

posix is actually kinda fire

im implementing that on top of my os tho, enjoy non standard system calls MUAHAHAHAHAHAH

also i think i mightve went the gnu route

make all the utilities first, then make the kernel (if thats ever even made)

happens sometimes

kvass aint dead i just have brain damage

LETS GOOOOO

i need to steal this crap for gregloader ngl

wait its just gonna look like limine then

[ocean ore]

wait thats called an stdc though

i mean idk

does mlibc have posix functions?

my plan is to have a literal non unix but unix apps can be built and compiled

posix apps are portable enough anyways

so i can still have my cursed drive structure

port mac fdisk idk

[ocean ore]

most i need to do is a 100% ascii compliant terminal imo and port mlibc

100% ascii compliant terminal sounds fire ngl

[raw prairie]

You mean ANSI

And VT100

[raw prairie]

Mlibc is very POSIX

[ocean ore]

yes

vt100 especially

hide cursor and crap

[ocean ore]

i need to name my terminal emulator somehow

time to pull out the "ukrainian drink" card

uzvar

[arctic plank]

what are you doing

[ocean ore]

im gonna go work on an mlibc port for powerpc linux for some reason

@vale vale ok so your script decided to not work, but i basically figured out what it did

musl doesnt wanna configure tho :/

gcc and binutils compiled fine

im thinking of retrying with glibc

no idea if that would work but whatever

m

long double 64 seems to be the most important one

since its complaining about floats

https://klipy.com/gifs/skeleton-banging-shield

no way it only supports little endian powerpc

[raw prairie]

Use mlibc/linux ppc

[ocean ore]

theres no such a thing tho i was going to port that

i want a working lunix first

[ocean ore]

i just realized i have like 3 projects now atm

the stupid mlibc port, my build system, and gregloader

i swear bro greg has had more of an actual existence than kvass itself 😭

[ocean ore]

ok so im gonna make an automatic horribly tiny linux from scratch builder tool later probably

[next beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/laptop-hacking-hacker-cat-gif-5423768830271062600

Kvass development:

[ocean ore]

kvass is literally "holy crap this looks cool lemme do that" while not getting to work on the kernel at all

[vale vale]

What is musl-mod

[ocean ore]

musl but with the patches you had applied

i didnt want to ruin the original source

the 1 and 2 files

anyways i built glibc fine tho

now bash is actively trying to kill itself (even after ive made a patch to fix this specific error)

i dont think i should patch gnu utilities at all and just put the blame on myself but whatever

whatever its getting a (void*) instead

https://klipy.com/gifs/skeleton-banging-shield

where's the "abandon hope all ye who enter here" in bash like in xterm

gnu is gonna get so much patches they're gonna block me for spam

so wait

[ocean ore]

DOES THIS RETURN A VOID OR AN INT

GNU

GNUUUUUUUUU

https://klipy.com/gifs/lol-thrown

ok so it returns an int

gnu

let me tell you how much ive come to HATE you since i began to live

ok honestly gnu are fire but like what is this

LITERALLY WHAT IS THIS

an entire screen worth of errors on 8px font

i tried to compile it with gnu99

what 😭

fine idiot im going busybox

nevermind

Z SHELL 👍

i need to make a separate thread about the linux distro

this aint even kvass anymore

i hate autoconf

or whatever its called

GNU AUTOTOOLS

WHAT

THERES GNU AUTOTOOLS AND AUTOCONF

😭

autofarts

they suck

gnu get your game up

you need literally the whole universe in your favor to build anything using autoconf

[vale vale]

Check that they haven't been submitted already

[ocean ore]

fair

[vale vale]

If a release fails, check a snapshot (or alpha.gnu.org) or a recent git commit. If it still fails, but with a different error, then keep going back in history until it fails with the same error

Basically bisecting it

[ocean ore]

true

[ocean ore]

ok so im making my own shell because none of them want to compile

how practical

n't

[vale vale]

Patch them

Gentoo supports ppc32(be?)

[ocean ore]

yes

[ocean ore]

hm

ok so im gonna download a version from their website instead of the latest git commit

(zsh)

i think the blame is on me here

both of them 100% exist

yehs

[vale vale]

Please do bash or busybox instead

You can get self hosting easier that way

[ocean ore]

fair

lemme just solve the stupid header problem

[vale vale]

What's the issue you're having with bash?

[ocean ore]

weird C code errors

lemme pull out bash again ima show you whatever error i get fist

[vale vale]

Logs or it didn't happen

[ocean ore]

first*