Kvass (vibecoden't)

[ocean ore]

we doing paging rn

idk why my evil co dev put a pmm in the bootloader

maybe we need it

[next beacon]

I mean a lot of boot loaders have a pmm

[ocean ore]

ok so im still the ceo of kvass

im gonna now set up virtual memory in a similar way as done in the nintendo wii

because hash maps are stupid and i still cant understand them

as in like

there's a PT, and in the PT theres a specified amount of PTEGs

PTEGs have 8 PTEs

pt - page table, pte - page table entry, etc

[ocean ore]

there can be some amount of PTEGs

idk

uhhh

it sucks bad

i dont understand whether "you can make a table cover 8mb to 4gb of memory" means the size of the address space or thats how much one PT can cover in total

i dont know if there can be multiple PT's

ok so powerpc has a second paging method

paging is an overexaggeration

||it's segmentation||

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

its called a bat (block addr translation), there's 8 of them, so you get 8 things you can have in virtual memory at a time

lol 69420 page faults

theres actually 16, but each BAT entry is 64 bit so one entry spreads out over 2 BAT registers

these are cpu registers btw

man porting to x86 is gonna be so fun

maybe we actually have to use the GDT there

ok no thats stupid

instead, emulate powerpc segmentation

[ocean ore]

ok i just went to work on this

sakettor forgot to commit 😔

[ocean ore]

tfw intel invents another lake for some reason

ima steal memmap from openshartware

[ocean ore]

openfirmware doesnt have such crap as "device reserved" or even just "reserved", its only free memory

[muted talon]

its staring

0x0

oh wait secret info

[muted talon]

bro delete that abomination

also, the kernel is position dependent on 5 mb

so it wont run

sadly

WE NEED ELFFFFFFF

[ocean ore]

a

[ocean ore]

bro we need virtual memory

trust frfr

map kernel to 5 mb (or even 0 mb) and then go

[muted talon]

ohok

[ocean ore]

im gonna use bat

128 kb or more segments

[muted talon]

i commited

[ocean ore]

i was already working on it

is it the pmm build

[muted talon]

yes

[ocean ore]

uh

crappage

hmmm move the pmm to the kernel itself

is it a freelist or what

[muted talon]

bitmap

[ocean ore]

.

brother

[muted talon]

im no microsoft engineer for freelist

[ocean ore]

i made a freelist before already

ok ykw so im gonna air strike the pmm were gonna make a kvass one (TM)

[muted talon]

now you will have to work with bitmap

[silent jay]

one bit per block goes HARD

[ocean ore]

bro we cant even have more than 3 mappings at a time, and now our pmm is slow,

we're making a potato

[muted talon]

not harder than me

[ocean ore]

ok so we're making a freelist or some other obscure garbarge(tm) and the bitmap one is getting sent to the shadow realm

i decree

we cant afford any more slow than we already have

[muted talon]

😭

[silent jay]

external fragmentation does NOT go hard

[ocean ore]

ok honestly my actual idea is to make a heavily optimized bitmap

for some reason

idk how to optimize it

do the powerpc thing with hashmaps

[muted talon]

not softer than me

[ocean ore]

THATS IT USE THE x86 SYSTEM OF PAGE DIRECTORIES AND PAGE TABLES FOR THE PMM

ok nevermind what tf

[muted talon]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ocean ore]

yeah no id use a bitmap if we got it to be fast asf

attach a list of free areas onto a bitmap

ok ykw a freelist is simpler atp

or is it

do we use bitmap or fartlist

[silent jay]

what's the target cpu and optimisation level???

[next beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-confused-look-gif-24835232

[ocean ore]

whats the target CPU
i wonder

[silent jay]

nah, i meant like is it power9 or smth?

[ocean ore]

powerpc 750 or newer

[muted talon]

make a bytemap as a global array of 4096 bytes for the entire memory

[ocean ore]

i have peak idea for freelist actually

[silent jay]

G3 goes hard

[muted talon]

not goeser me hard

[ocean ore]

i forgot

anyways so like i want to do freelist but i honestly have no idea where to store all the crap whenever we run out of space

[next beacon]

Bros using a more complicated but slower algorithm than a free list

[ocean ore]

ok so we have memory map

[muted talon]

also i hate bits

i thought it was easier

[ocean ore]

this was the death of nullium (those who know)

[next beacon]

It’s not

[ocean ore]

oh look at how the mighty have fallen

[next beacon]

A free list is literally

Alloc a page -> take from head of list and mark as used

Free a page -> throw page to end of list and mark as free

[ocean ore]

ok im gonna program the pmm for kvass actually MUAHAHAHAHAHAHH

i am THE ceo of freelist

i programmed it in scratch

[next beacon]

I’ve explained this so many times 😭

[ocean ore]

im sorry man we're just stupid

[silent jay]

'guys it's not a kid's programming language trust'

[ocean ore]

• © 12 year old

i remember someone saying they wanted to make an insane video game career on scratch

and also some other dude i remember made an "OS" on scratch

(that was me :P)

the best thing i did is load and unload sprites with an extension for "system updates"

anyways so like

pee m&m

we gonna make our own and nuke the one sakettor has (sorry we HAVE to be microsoft engineers here)

[silent jay]

"Big Gates is watching you"

[ocean ore]

@muted talon man im sorry i genuinely dont know how to just fix it or make it faster

we'll be nuked by the whole server for it too

[silent jay]

• "Windows 11" by Steve Baller (formerly George O-well-the-server-is-down)

[muted talon]

i used bitmap for all of my osdev projects and nobody said a word

[ocean ore]

i didnt even know you used bitmap

[muted talon]

because i have 1 repo watches on otos

[ocean ore]

[silent jay]

The world is divided into three superpowers: Azure, AWS, and Google Cloud. The protagonist, Winston Smith, works for the Department of Telemetry, where his job is to rewrite "End User License Agreements" to ensure that users have never actually owned their hardware.
The omnipresent slogans of The Corporation are:
SUBSCRIPTION IS FREEDOM
TELEMETRY IS PRIVACY
INCOMPATIBILITY IS STRENGTH
Instead of a telescreen, Winston is watched by a non-removable AI Copilot that reports him to the Thought-Police-as-a-Service if it detects him trying to use a local account or Firefox. The story reaches its peak when Winston is taken to Room 404, where he is forced to use a version of Excel that doesn't support "Undo" until he finally breaks and screams, "I love the Ribbon interface!"

[ocean ore]

doubleplusgood

[pliant glen]

how many lines is this anyway

[barren sierra]

Windows NT does this on PowerPC

It basically uses the inverted page tables as a TLB cache, kind of

And then when the CPU hits a page fault first it looks up the page table tree to see if there's anything

[ocean ore]

except inverted page tables suck

memmap (was meaning to send yesterday)

[ocean ore]

anti kvass

dude probably got it up in 3 days and im here with my 2.5 months on an obscure architecture building a "masterpiece"

what do yall even think of kvass

[tough garden]

the fact that they mention its the "first" ai slop os lol

[ocean ore]

do you think whenever it comes out its gonna be good or bad

[ocean ore]

insane

[tough garden]

WHAT THE FUCK 962 STARS

[ocean ore]

oh

i feel offended now

my effort means nothing

[tough garden]

wait

i was thinking of this https://github.com/viralcode/vib-OS

the name is way too close

[ocean ore]

oh

theres more

[ocean ore]

137 STARS

https://tenor.com/view/doohickey-corporation's-headquarters-kitchen-apparatus-robert-helpmann-glaggleland-invention-gif-3932338748077700773

x86-64 is fully ai slop now i resort to powermacs

(i already did)

(i dont think im the first powerpc hobby os though )

(that would be either linux or something else)

[tough garden]

rewrite in rust when?
😭😭

[ocean ore]

ok back to work

sakettor decided that he did enough work (understandable, i wanted to boot the kernel anyway)

he has like 2 operating systems anyways

the pmm he put in is perfectly functional, but its a bitmap and its not exactly what i need here

[ocean ore]

i think sakettor replaced my echo -e's with regular echos so the makefile output looks like crap

[pliant glen]

destroy

[ocean ore]

read blank string

i wonder why it crashes (someone is being executed tonight)

no its never even mentioned anywhere else anywhere

[pliant glen]

char *kernel

what could that possibly be

[ocean ore]

NULL

its NULL

[pliant glen]

make your names at least 80 characters

C with inline documentation

[ocean ore]

you're blacklisted from contributing to the kernel

[pliant glen]

I don't even know c

[ocean ore]

i think it used to work but i ruined it really bad

oops

[pliant glen]

well I know the syntax but I'd need to go to four year openfirmware college like you did

[ocean ore]

nobody is being executed i think its my bad

[ocean ore]

you'll still break it

[pliant glen]

nah

do you save your kernel in versions

for archival

[ocean ore]

no

i use git for now

[ocean ore]

does anyone have a horribly old powermac

like anyone here

except me and the floppa man

new world mac, like imac or newer

and the blue powermac g3s

ok ykw im gonna make it so everyone can contribute to kvass if they want im just gonna straight up open source it

no internal crap and also i own kvass my copyright must be everywhere

if nobody wants to contribute then so be it idk

its gonna be pull requests and crap

[ocean ore]

actually nevermind i reconsider i should talk with sakettor or whatever idk

opensource later

[ocean ore]

mac os boot bitmap, unironically

https://github.com/apple-opensource-mirror/BootX/blob/master/bootx.tproj/sl.subproj/appleboot.h

[ocean ore]

lol death

i have to use the much more stupid MMU method called map

map requires a virtual addr as input

i dont want conflicts

[ocean ore]

MAPPING WORKS

test code

this maps address, writes to newly made virtual address, unmaps it, and prints

and it prints 0 it actually did something

now i need to copy stuff there

[fierce river]

pure fuckery

real efforts aren't appricated.

[muted talon]

WHAT OF THE FUCKING FUCK IS THAT

is this a binary as a header file

[barren sierra]

they do

which is why windows NT only uses them as a software refilled TLB

[tame quartz]

it exists

[barren sierra]

i wasnt sure

[ocean ore]

m

i still wanna use that bat thing

i wish i could even UNDERSTAND how these stupid tables work

it is too much effort to set them up and theyll probably run like crap too

[ocean ore]

kvass opensource soon

i need to get over the fact that it does nothing yet

the best thing it does is map virtual memory and a pmm without a free function

(its useful for booting)

[ocean ore]

guys compact discs need a shower too

i think my mac os leopard dvd reads after i cleaned it with soap and hot water

nevermind it broke

oh

it kernel panic'd

magnificent

[gloomy mist]

https://tenor.com/view/panik-gif-20011121

[ocean ore]

"there is no way it could've just flown away!" - me, after the spring holding the battery just flew away somewhere (on the ibook)

WHY IS THERE A PENNY INSIDE IT

WHAT

money :P

o i found the audio chip

and some other scary chip soldered onto the back of the computer

it looks like a cpu or gpu

AINT NO WAY THEY COOLED THE GPU WITH A PLASTIC LID AND A THIN METAL SHIELD

or cpu

THATS EVEN WORSE

no

NO THEY PUT THE GPU THERE

WHY

WHY DID THEY DO THAT

APPLE

they probably put the g3 itself in the keyboard circuit

idk

atp its possible

[ocean ore]

what keeps pinging me

the kvass ibook now has 30 gb of hard drive instead of 20

without the 13 metal shields that cd drive is actually loud

[ocean ore]

i gave you 2 zelles, two paypals, 2 bank accounts and you redeemed all the 13 $500 gift cards i asked you to buy there is no excuse anymore im gonna get the FCC to destroy your house you dont want that right you motherf-

im reassembling my victim ibook

im gonna work on kvass in a bit

maybe run it on the ibook

[raw prairie]

@ocean ore can you send messages here now properly?

[vale vale]

wtf

yeah messages work for me now

[ocean ore]

what

oh

FREEDOM I cAN TALK NOW

[frigid basin]

did somebody say FREEDOM 🦅🦅 💥💥💥

[ocean ore]

is 512 mb address space enough

(i need to allocate 4 mb for page tables)

[ocean ore]

ehh its enough

[ocean ore]

ok so the thing is that i can get the full 4 gigs of addressing space

however i need 32 mb of ram for that

early ibooks only have 32 mb

im just gonna do 1 gigs of addressing for 8 mb of memory

guys initialize your variables to 0 or otherwise your memory allocator will fail

the fart failed after i removed a print function

the fix was to add a = 0

[raw prairie]

This is why radix trees and normal paging is nice

[ocean ore]

ive just realized 5000 page faults arent that practical

i have no choice

what if i purchase an ai data center to compile kvass

[raw prairie]

[ocean ore]

its like fully transparent underwear, its practically useless but funny asf

[raw prairie]

I mean a fucking uhhh hetzner server isn’t too expensive

And it’s bare metal so you could run VMs

[ocean ore]

m

cant buy one right now but i wish i had my own web server at some point

[raw prairie]

You could even give out free servers to me others for kernel compiling

[ocean ore]

where i can just start hosting some crap like a minecraft server idk

[raw prairie]

If you just need static HTTP hosting I can hook you up

For free

Garunteed

24/7ish

[ocean ore]

i remembered that ukrainian deal where the government got your bank account history for $23

[raw prairie]

Lmfao

No but like if you need web hosting

[ocean ore]

they paid you 23 dollars and then they obtained your bank history

[raw prairie]

I have a cloud server where I have plenty of space to fit tons of tiny websites for freinds

[ocean ore]

fair ig

im probably gonna make a kvass website and you can host it muahahahahahaha

[raw prairie]

Yeah I would do that

You’re my friend

I’d even help you design it

[ocean ore]

sent friend request you liar

[raw prairie]

Accepted

[ocean ore]

ok nevermind not a liar anymore

[ocean ore]

i took a web design course from someone trying to execute a windows program from a mac i know what im doing

[raw prairie]

https://youtu.be/4kxFuiblrrM

Welcome

[ocean ore]

fartscord client keeps crashing

i found a tutorial for nintendo wii homebrewing

it explains powerpc paging

[ocean ore]

i cant understand how motorola explains bit fields

idk

competent people execute me if its wrong

five hundred vsids

MAUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

dark mode is stupid tho

execute me if you want

[ocean ore]

except discord

[ocean ore]

itanium uses page tables like on powerpc

like that type of page tables

[tough socket]

optionally yeah

[ocean ore]

fair

does anyone here know anything about setting up the page tables, i know what an entry looks like but idk how to generate a vsid or wtf ptegs actually are

[ocean ore]

is the slb registers or what

clinical insanity

oh

this is the 64 bit implementation

whatever

maybe i should just use the BATs like a sane person

or not nvm

[raw prairie]

Why not use x86-64

[ocean ore]

because its stupid

and boring

[raw prairie]

Mk68k

[ocean ore]

later

[raw prairie]

True

[ocean ore]

hoyl crap it can emulate a mac quadra

i think if i port kvass to 68k, and then x86 and x86-64 i think i can confidently say it runs on practically everything

[raw prairie]

What about sparc

And arm

And riscv

[ocean ore]

those three too

i need to port kvass on everything now

wheres the documentation for rat neurons

im just gonna use BATs and cope with the violent rain of page faults

128K pages 🥀

wait

theres hope

i found powerpc 601 instruction manual

its way older than what i target (750 or newer)

but still

[raw prairie]

Oh and you need big endian variants for them all

[ocean ore]

little endian*

fool

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-ascending-gif-12224952850809471339

[raw prairie]

You also need a zilog z80 port

They can get some kind of privilege and MMU systems with external circuitry

[ocean ore]

brotha 😭

no

👍

[raw prairie]

Then kvass won’t run in everything

[ocean ore]

maybe not everything ig

powerpc and x86 would already be a bunch of crap

[raw prairie]

Why not a 6502 port too

[raw prairie]

To be fair ppc x86(-64) and arm is enough for every MacBook

So

[ocean ore]

not every

M4 is documented like stinky poocrap

and m3

(theres no documentation)

in the segment registers (which point to like some crap in normal paging) have a bit named "T"

its present in certain implementations

not all

so if i use it i cant port for like the wii

no wii 😔

wait no what does it even do

[raw prairie]

Why not like

Check for hardware support

And if it’s there use it

[ocean ore]

you cant

[raw prairie]

Then uhhh

What’s the point

Of the bit

[ocean ore]

i dont know

happens sometimes

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-a-mystery-steve-blues-big-city-adventure-catching-blue-this-is-a-riddle-gif-27113480

[ocean ore]

documentation is poopoo

help my documents are rotated

oh

press R in the firefox pdf viewer to rotate the document

👍

here's the full page for anyone who wants to read it

https://pokeacer.xyz/wii/pdf/BroadwayUserManual.pdf

i have to :(

(its the wii chip)

[ocean ore]

thats it

bats

3000 page faults a second

enjoy

[pliant glen]

port to vacuum tube

[ocean ore]

shame to those who call it a pp BIT

its a 2 bit value

size doesnt matter though what matters is what it does

[ocean ore]

why did i call this one write only

renamed it to ppc_pp_FullAccs

also for read only the first bit can be whatever

my random function always returns 4

anyways i need to move crap into registers now

inline assembly

theres 32 registers

i suggest only using registers past 15

gcc uses some of them

[ocean ore]

tfw i wish i had i had a static BAT but i cant due to me actually having to use them

its literally like a gdt

you assemble it from friggin idk bit shifts

ok so the last 2 bits are supervisor and user access (in this order i think)

"RES" is reserved

you need to be literally mentally disabled to not understand what "virtual addr" means

this is basically a bit display thingamabob

also the motorola manual calls this the low bat but some random tutorial i found on the internet calls this the high bat

anyways so its probably an endianness thing

ill figure it out

ik i shouldnt be reading tutorials off the internet but its just simpler to understand it seems to be accurate

i checked it

im really just stealing the implementations of how the actual bit fields work because motorola is dum and makes crap manuals (like literally every other manual ive read)

[ocean ore]

someone run mac os on the sega genesis it has a 68k

[muted talon]

i have one

[ocean ore]

cool

[muted talon]

please provide a cartridge with macos

[silent jay]

someone run on an amiga lol

[ocean ore]

done already i think

[silent jay]

yeah, i've seen it

[silent jay]

reminds me of this guy saying he ran system 7 on his megadrive: https://www.sega-16forums.com/forum/console-talk/genesis-does/2104-mac-os-on-a-sega-genesis-yes I'm pretty sure it's a hoax.

[ocean ore]

fair

[silent jay]

but i did find this twitter post: https://x.com/partytimehxlnt/status/773252820824752128

@[email protected] (@partytimeHXLNT)

TIL that in 1995, someone put MacOS on a Sega Genesis cartridge.

https://t.co/JdowCnUAQU

X · Sep 6, 2016, 8:13 PM

[ocean ore]

lel bats

should i keep those in the final kernel for the funny

those ones arent actual working ones theyre just tests

[muted talon]

hi bat!

[ocean ore]

heres the format

[ocean ore]

https://tenor.com/view/team-fortress-2-tf2-meet-the-scout-scout-meet-the-team-gif-16835795096820020858

[ocean ore]

shift+esc marks the entire server as read

insanity

[muted talon]

wait so fire

thx

why are you powerpc cat now 😭

"cat from GNU coreutils" was truly replaced by "type from MS-DOS"

[vale vale]

You can mark every server you're in as read on desktop

[ocean ore]

how

[vale vale]

one sec

[ocean ore]

nice

[silent jay]

yey! high and low bat! also done just like most implementations!

[ocean ore]

you know powerpc stuff?

[silent jay]

yeah!

some of it!

i do know it can run both big and little endian, but it's mainly big endian

[ocean ore]

big endian because m68k

macintosh and such

apple lazy

[silent jay]

yep

aim alliance

[ocean ore]

cool ig

90% chance every powerpc programmer is a homebrewer frfr

[ocean ore]

wii homebrewer

the fart had a powerpc 750cx variation but with features removed

or not 750cx

some variation of some variation of the 750cx

[pliant glen]

what inspired you to start this project

[ocean ore]

MY APPLE IBOOK RUNS LIKE CRAP

THE FART GETS 30 FPS ON THE DOCK

THE GPU IS HALF BROKEN TOO

THERES A STUPID BLUE LINE ON SCREEN I CANT GET RID OF IT

AUHIDJKSHADHJKSADHJKASHJKD

ok honestly i just have a bunch of vintage hardware

and this ibook is the one i power on the least

idk what to do with it

i will never throw anything away

anyways so like i got bored of x86

the only other thing i have is a bunch of arm (everyone has a bunch of arm devices) but i cant osdev for these

and this ibook

so i picked the ibook

i always liked macs they were cool

my only problem is that i want more powerpc macs now

theyre cool for no reason

the farts are just unique idk

[pliant glen]

so whst kind of os do you intend to make

[ocean ore]

i could afford except i cant because that would take too much space and i cant explain why i cant just fit them in there despite being able to fit them in there

[muted talon]

i have a 2001 laptop, 2010 laptop, 2014 pc, 2004 laptop and a washing machine

[ocean ore]

operating system

i want to make an operating system os

i honestly want to make a unix but at the same time i dont

because we have linux already

[pliant glen]

are you gonna font your own bitmap using the ascii standard

[ocean ore]

im going to probably make my own bitmap font using MY standard

[pliant glen]

arbitrary bytes

no closed source needed anymore at that point

[ocean ore]

[ocean ore]

at least one g4 thing

because funky floating point stuff

and also ibook screen small

[pliant glen]

wire a crt to it

[ocean ore]

w h a t

[pliant glen]

also put the components in there with the crt

amd separate the keyboard for modularity

[ocean ore]

ive only just learned theres a 14 inch model

i mean recentl

y

i have the 12 inch one

honestly capable computer

i want a g4 for more osdev tasks tho

actually ykw

[ocean ore]

MY APPLE MACBOOK PRO FROM 2006 RUNS LIKE CRAP

THE OPERATING SYSTEM ON BOTH OF THEM RUNS THE DOCK AT 30 FPS

ITS LITERALLY STUPID

THEYRE BOTH PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL

APPLE IS STUPID

APPLE CANT DESIGN GPUS EITHER

DUMDUMS

anyways so speaking of the ibook

its gonna quad boot mac os 9, 10.4, lunix and kvass probably

whenever i get that running

[pliant glen]

it can always be worse

[ocean ore]

i remember having a 2010 macbook pro

it looked really nice

pretty computer

the gpu was borked to death due to a stupid capacitor

we dont speak of it

[raw prairie]

It could be x86-64

[pliant glen]

it could be assembly

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/dear-god-soldier-tf2-soldier-tf2-gif-7977085984093123408

[pliant glen]

I think assembly just stockholmed me

[silent jay]

it could be INTERCOM 1000.

[ocean ore]

[ocean ore]

"it could be powerpc asssembly"
"no..."

eieio instruction and pp bits are true engineer humor

[pliant glen]

find a way to use it inline without bringing about ten plagues

[ocean ore]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforce_In-order_Execution_of_I/O

the thing has a wikipedia article on it

[ocean ore]

done already

[raw prairie]

This is just setting somthing to uncachable… but with extra steps

[ocean ore]

no thats different

somehow

i should make mac os 9 software ngl

port bash

it doesnt even have a terminal emulator

ok i sleep

goodbye internet i will return soon

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-ascending-gif-12224952850809471339

[silent jay]

can't forget "thunk" and "yak shaving"

[muted talon]

Enforce In-Order Execution of IO

[ocean ore]

man im sad i like powerpc too much but the thing's dead

[vale vale]

hardly

lol

[ocean ore]

ultrapowerful servers dont really count

nobody can afford these things

maybe ill like porting it to risc-v

or whatever

ok so risc v is just as unreadable as powerpc

[vale vale]

https://ebay.com/itm/267529075278
https://ebay.com/itm/168105341910

[ocean ore]

WHAT

[vale vale]

you can VERY often find cheaper than that though, if you wait for a deal to pop up

I found a much more powerful server than that for like $65 one time, full working and everything, just no disks iirc

and loads of ram with it lmao

now keep in mind this is a couple generations old

[ocean ore]

true

[raw prairie]

did i hear loads of ram

[vale vale]

shush :P

power11 (I think) is the latest

it might be 12 by now

[ocean ore]

fair

powerpc and power are slightly different, some instructions are priveleged while some are not

[raw prairie]

Give me 5 mystery points or I call the nvidia cops /s
Btw what kind of ram it is it lmao

[ocean ore]

old

[raw prairie]

Is it anything modern

[ocean ore]

old ram

[vale vale]

whatever power7 used. ddr3 I think?

[raw prairie]

DDR3 is still good

Uhhh don’t mind me just gonna uhhhh 100% not buy power PC computers and resell the ram later

🤫

[ocean ore]

not exactly new but theres also power mac g5's which are quite powerful
apple claimed the thing would be future proof for many years (they artificially nuked it)

has crap like pcie slots

[raw prairie]

Classic Apple

[ocean ore]

nah apple generally has an ok track record with nuking crap out of existence but this is the worst thing i have seen

it can still run linux fine tho

[ocean ore]

except that 7 years isnt really enough for all computers to become stupid bricks

maybe for the low end macbook air it is but for some stupid big workstation it aint

[ocean ore]

yo so my ibook is literally a slight variation of the gamecube

the cpu is similar

[next beacon]

power isa my beloved

[ocean ore]

yall im gonna make the minimum drive space for kvass be around 1 gb at worst

i dont have a lot of space i want to put linux on my ibook too

i have 4 gb at best

[pliant glen]

how would you make it more than 128mb

[ocean ore]

software

[pliant glen]

bloat

do everything again with a clean mind

[ocean ore]

e

im honestly not expecting to hit even like 2 gb at worst

i mean

by default itll probably be like 64 mb at worst

but with the test crap i put on there

[pliant glen]

enjoy writing kvass-c dialect header

[ocean ore]

what

[ocean ore]

im still unsure if this should be a unix or not

i mean i get easy app porting but we have linux already

im gonna make my own crap honestly

i already have to tolerate this much documents

[raw prairie]

what about unix but not POSIX like

[ocean ore]

hmmmmmmmmm

cool idea

[raw prairie]

and then you can have POSIX built ontop of your stuff for ports

[ocean ore]

honestly sure i like the pooix aesthetic

[raw prairie]

what about NT like but with POSIX

[ocean ore]

i have to construct a vfs in the bootloader so the os gets crap to work with

[ocean ore]

no

NT larp on a mac is clinically insane

[raw prairie]

yeah so what

we all are

[ocean ore]

ok we already have NT on a mac actually

😭

nah idk

NT larp with unix vfs and bash

its like what weird al yankovic said, music is its own thing genres are what is put on it

mix a bunch of crap and hope it works

[ocean ore]

insanity

how weird too

anyways so i need to like decide idk

what do i want for this stupid fart os

[pliant glen]

start with snake

[ocean ore]

your ideas are ignored

what snake

the nokia one?

[pliant glen]

good decision

but like try to make the os capable of running stuff before considering running specific stuff

[ocean ore]

bro im considering the structure of the os itself what are you talking about

[pliant glen]

well yeah but like

build as you go

think as you build

[ocean ore]

thats why i think x86 is stupid its a mess

anyway

[pliant glen]

I don't know what that has to do with x86

that has to do with my programming style being from hell

[ocean ore]

im gonna probably make a unix like without the posix compliance

because funky aesthetics and crap

actually some of the posix compliance crap is kinda good

but not all of it

[ocean ore]

the portable character set at least

[ocean ore]

ok so ati rage gpus will probably be supported by kvass

they are

1. in my ibook
2. some dude leaked the specs

also i have another laptop with an ati rage

and some other one with an early radeon

idk maybe theyre similar

ok they are somewhat

the fart has an architecture named "rage 7"

the first gen mobility radeon is featured in the second generation of titanium powerbook g4s

the first gen has a rage 128

[ocean ore]

honestly id consider porting kvass to a wii if i had one

or a gamecube

the architecture of the gamecube is literally as close as it can get to my ibook

i dont really hate openfirmware anymore honestly

the documentation sucks utter poo though

no i cant send patches its dead since 2005

speaking of 2005 i need to consider an imac g5 in the long future

or a powermac

i need a ppc64 system that isnt just qemu

i need to port a bunch of other targets anyway probably

if i do efi im probably not using the limine protocol

limine cant run on my 2006 macbook

at least in efi mode

NOT uefi

theres no uefi on it

[ocean ore]

it has an nvidia

you can put gpu upgrades into them i think

[tough socket]

NT is already pretty unix

[ocean ore]

anyways nah i dont really wanna do nt

le understandable

[tough socket]

NT is just a source of ideas to plunder

[ocean ore]

fair

i want my own ideas though

[raw prairie]

You should have a system call that plays bad apple

[ocean ore]

im probably gonna add bad apple either way but no

[raw prairie]

You have to beat the machine not join them

Break the system

[ocean ore]

what

tfw

[raw prairie]

You can’t follow norms

Make bad apple syscall

It replaces the current processes process image

[ocean ore]

rule 1 of the internet

anything can run doom except most amigas

[raw prairie]

A gregnancy test can run doom

[ocean ore]

on a technicality it can

but still not the amiga

[raw prairie]

Why not the amiga

[ocean ore]

planar graphics

[raw prairie]

Wdym

[ocean ore]

so crap like the 16 color vga had a thing where the color of the pixels are on like 3 different bit maps

it was horribly slow to access

[raw prairie]

I mean it will run doom

Just slow

[ocean ore]

0.2 fps 😭

[raw prairie]

Down sample the resolution and make it one color only

Make it red only

[ocean ore]

it will run it worse than the same cpu running minceraft on a mac

[raw prairie]

Like the virtual boy

[ocean ore]

some raycaster games did it and they were still like 5 fps

[raw prairie]

And 64x64 resolution

[ocean ore]

doom is beyond cooked

[raw prairie]

But make it actuatly 64x32

And have black bars interlaced

And then swap between them

[ocean ore]

ok so im trying to put linux on my stupid ibook

im thinking if i even need linux

ok i guess not

abandon my dreams

[raw prairie]

Once your kernel has a hypervisor

You can daily drive your kernel

Trust

[ocean ore]

true

[ocean ore]

DO NOT RUN SETENV REAL MODE

DO NOT RUN SETENV LITTLE ENDIAN

IN MACS

WITH OPENFIRMWARE

I ALMOST BRICKED MY IBOOK

DO NOT EVER DO IT

[raw prairie]

WHAT HAOPENED

HOW HAPPENED

[vale vale]

oh yeah that's like famous lol

[ocean ore]

is true

anyways so openfirmware's virtual memory functions broke

no further explanation they just crapped themselves

ok so i have to rework everything that uses virtual memory functions

(which is everything ive built so far)

[ocean ore]

nothing its fine now

if you dont have an early 2000 powerpc mac then

1. buy one for kvass
2. dont worry about it its a stupid apple thing

some idiot at whatever place decided it would be a good idea to make the page size be measured in bytes

it rounds down

so if you type size 4 then the size will be 0 but if the size would be 4096 it would just be 4096 which is one page

so it rounds down the page count

clinical insanity i hate this i hate this

at least i do have a round up macro

[raw prairie]

Wait what’s

[ocean ore]

ok so the map function

it has a field for a physical addr, a virtual addr, and a size field

the size field is in bytes

[raw prairie]

Why

WHY

WHYYY

[ocean ore]

I DONT KNOW

IT TRANSLATES IT TO PAGES

IT ROUNDS DOWN

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/chocolate-spongebob-fish-rage-love-chocolate-gif-4938413

[ocean ore]

[ocean ore]

WHY DOES IT ROUND DOWN

[raw prairie]

Why isn’t it just in pages

[ocean ore]

openfirmware design

[raw prairie]

Why not make a wrapper

[ocean ore]

idk

[raw prairie]

To handle that

[ocean ore]

for the function call i just put a util_ceilDiv(size, 4096)*4096

should round up correctly at least

yes this is what i named the macro dont kill me

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-gif-26383556

[ocean ore]

lol japanese cartoon

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/howlers-den-who-gets-the-pokey-pokey-cat-gif-8874659858752863111

How’s this

[ocean ore]

lol real life cartoon

[raw prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/enojado-gif-6930705070173779193

[ocean ore]

lol emoji movie

ok what

actually i made the size in pages

LIKE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ORIGINALLY BE

[ocean ore]

do i even need windows 98

i have this stupid pentium 3 laptop

it shipped with windows 2000

i can put windows 98 on it but i doubt if i even need it

[muted talon]

respect your elders

[ocean ore]

unstupid

[ocean ore]

i say no im just gonna nuke it

[raw prairie]

Put alpine Linux on it

[silent jay]

at least better than putting qnx 4 on it 💀

[ocean ore]

is it another one of those potato linuxes

i only have 10 gigs of drive storage

[raw prairie]

It’s a potato Linux that can still do anything

It runs a lot of my servers

[ocean ore]

i think i have below the minimum amount of ram for a gui

i can put it on my thinkpad tho

[raw prairie]

Do it

I will say it’s a non gnu distribution

It uses busy box

And MUSL

[ocean ore]

scary

[raw prairie]

Also the install on my server is less than 1gb

And it uses 100mb ram base for 64bit

And like 40mb base on 32bit

It’s teensy as fuck

[ocean ore]

ok i can just make a 4 gig partition on there

yayn't

i also only have 20 gb of storage on it

most of it is taken by crapdows

i mean all

all of it

[ocean ore]

i dont like microsoft at all but it is a vintage ish machine it adds to the appeal

[raw prairie]

#memes message

Microslop

[ocean ore]

give 7 gb to windows 10 gb for linux and 2 gig to kvass

every machine must be a lab rat

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

whenever i port it i get like a trillion of testing craps

honestly nevermind i dont need the kvass partition that much i think i can just do usb boot

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

usb

[ocean ore]

i know i have to fight it eventually

also im adding ohci first its in my ibook

ok so im just gonna add the partitions whenever i actually need them

[raw prairie]

Why not like

Get a bigger hard drive

Is it IDE?

[ocean ore]

cause uhh idk

[ocean ore]

yeah

[raw prairie]

Compact flash card to IDE

Boom done

[ocean ore]

insane

[raw prairie]

No no that’s good

That’s what people often do

[ocean ore]

true

[raw prairie]

In old computers

Compact flash is really close to IDE anyways

[ocean ore]

keep windows xp/2k on the spinny drives

[ocean ore]

fair

how much do those cost

[raw prairie]

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-CompactFlash-Memory-SDCFXSB-064G-G46/dp/B00NUB2RPW

https://www.amazon.com/NFHK-Compact-Merory-Laptop-Adapter/dp/B0CZ887FDZ

[ocean ore]

AH IM BROKE

expensive card

i can buy it probably but idk

ima think about it

[ocean ore]

ok so if i test on x86 im probably gonna use this dell laptop with like a 1000 bios modes and usb craps

maybe do efi crap on my 2006 macbook pro

give the p3 laptop a kvass partition too it has an ati rage

(some dude leaked the specs)

absolute cinema

[ocean ore]

the sound card is ac 97 compatible

somewhat open hardware

i should honestly get done with the powerpc crap first

[ocean ore]

or not there

that has usb internal keyboard

very evil crap

[ocean ore]

ok so im probably gonna do x86-64 once i port this because limine popular

or risc v

risc v looks similar

the 64 bit one obviously

[raw prairie]

You need to do 32bit tooooo

[ocean ore]

limine popular

[raw prairie]

[ocean ore]

32 bit risc v???

later

i need a 32 bit and 64 bit kvass

i need like everything else i have a problem with planning for the far future

[raw prairie]

Why don’t do x86

So modern computers can run it

[ocean ore]

risc v is modern

[ocean ore]

idk

do yall want me to do x86 more

[raw prairie]

x86-64

https://tenor.com/view/inifinity-war-marvel-black-panther-wakanda-gif-11628466

[ocean ore]

fine

i will do x86 64

[raw prairie]

Why not 16 bit protected mode though

For the 286

[ocean ore]

no paging

honestly i already want to port this to x86 except that i cant because i have nothing yet

feature creep bad

yo honestly when i get a basic powerpc kernel im gonna actually run the same thing on x86-64 limine for the funny

im bored

also btw i can get an initramfs or whatever you kids call it on openfirmware

I CALL IT A MOUNTABLE DISK IMAGE

store drivers on it

[ocean ore]

or just use it as a ramdisk or whatever

read only obv, what do you think you have hard drives for

[ocean ore]

ibooks can be turned off by using some fart that isnt acpi

or all nw macs

idk about old world

[ocean ore]

or restarted

[ocean ore]

i dont think theres other forms of power management

[ocean ore]

like sleep and such

i think for these you need to do gpu driver

[ocean ore]

oh gentoo why are there no precompiled packages for powerpc

oh gentoo why do i have to compile everything myself

oh gentoo, you run like crap

[raw prairie]

Oh @ocean ore why did you pick gentoo

[ocean ore]

[ocean ore]

because i want lunix and adelie doesnt run

[raw prairie]

Why art thou blame gentoo

[ocean ore]

if theres no precompiled linux specifically for powerpc im gonna explode

[raw prairie]

@ocean ore

Oh

Wait

That’s not 32bit

[ocean ore]

yeah

i need an imac

that one is little endian powerpc too

based

[raw prairie]

Get to compiling

[ocean ore]

nobody compiles 32 bit little endian powerpc

[ocean ore]

can i ask some other thing to build the packages for me

oh gentoo, how long will compiling lxqt take

[raw prairie]

Yeah

Make your own distro maybe

[ocean ore]

maybe

guys and gals does anyone want THE LATEST GNOME ON 32 BIT POWERPC

600 MHz G3

im putting something light on there

ok so anyways back to the point lololol

virtual memory

i dont trust openfirmware so im just gonna modify the memory map to make every start value 4096 aligned

[raw prairie]

Make sure to round up at the start and round down at the end

And make sure to detect overlapping regions

[ocean ore]

i dont want to touch the end its scary

ok honestly ima do that

[raw prairie]

But rounding down

Means it’s safe

[ocean ore]

truly

code

execute me if its wrong

i remembered the scary story of emulating a MMU on the 68000

insanity

can you do something like that on x86 or powerpc or smth just for the funny

[vale vale]

Chimera Linux

[ocean ore]

somebody compiles 32 bit little endian powerpc

[vale vale]

Oh wait little endian yeah no

That basically doesn't exist

[ocean ore]

nobody compiles 32 bit little endian powerpc

[ocean ore]

fair

[vale vale]

Because it's not really useful

Nothing runs little endian from boot, and why change the default operating mode?

[ocean ore]

true

[vale vale]

The only place that commonly happens is POWER (not ppc64) because it's natively supported and Linux is the biggest thing there

[ocean ore]

i mean POWER these days is just linux servers

and other such crap

[ocean ore]

ok so im gonna consider putting gentoo on my main machine to cross compile for the crapbook

[ocean ore]

holy crap modern tech is so fast

im so grateful this is insane

[ocean ore]

ok so i just had a rant in #1431140025805832343 about how my VFS should work

if you havent checked that out yet, do it its cool

anyways basically:

• so supposedly, an IDE driver manages an ata device (ata1) on the device tree
• now lets summon a (idk) MBR driver
• the mbr driver can now use blocks from that IDE driver (making ata1-p0 and such or something)
• and now a file system driver,
• fs driver goes out and asks that mbr driver to give the contents of the header to check if the signature is valid or whatever
• that fs driver now can make a mount point

the operation of the fs driver may be as follows:

• user requests root directory,
• the driver obtains the root directory and loads it into the vfs
• now user goes to documents
• the driver can now unload the contents of root and load documents
• when the system requests the driver to go back to root, driver is invoked and it constructs root again

obviously this crap is so my theoretical stupid fat32 driver wont take up 300 gb of ram

the vfs has a very stupid format tho

i think i need to write a library to parse it without going insane

or not

we all like DIY here, this is an osdev server after all

if this sucks in some way please tell me using ENGLISH

[raw prairie]

Basically pages your filesystem opens should be kept in memory and written to disk later

EG on shutdown

Or when you need to free the memory for other things

[ocean ore]

i think cow is the only thing i understand out of "evil os organization tactics"

[raw prairie]

This isn’t even CoW