Managarm and related projects | Operating System Development | Page 9

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 12:52 PM

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I actually wanted to fix it and I already began doing that in the morning, Ill have to actually test it after I figure out why I can't boot into kmscon/weston at all anymore (it just times out and systemd kills it) KEKW it was broken because mlibc started checking symbol versions, the new solution I came up with for now is that you use a script that does a bunch of patchelf --clear-symbol-version on all symbols with glibc versions and set the osabi field of the executable/library to solaris (so I can still determine whether the caller is a glibc binary or not as the old logic relied on the versioning info)

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the whole thing is a huge hack but it would be funny to get it to work again

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 12:54 PM

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going forward it might be nice to tag binaries with an xattr or similar for this purpose

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or something less cursed than marking them Solaris meme

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(we don't have xattrs yet btw)

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 12:54 PM

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yeah, it was just the first solution I came up with lol

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the versioning solution was good but I couldn't figure out a good way to make it work with the mlibc changes (without changing mlibc that is, if that would be an option then ig there could be some env variable or whatever that'd disable version checks for the binaries/libraries listed in there or something like that)

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you'd literally need a library full of stubs forwarding to mlibc functions for every single function (though idk if it would be that bad except for the performance overhead it'd cause, it could probably be autogenerated with a python script similar to the rust bindgen one and would avoid the need to patch away all the version info + osabi hack)

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 3:28 PM

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PSA: if you want to help managarm (and linux devs as well), you can submit DRM info dumps as explained here: https://drmdb.emersion.fr/

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it takes about 5 sec to do

native prairie May 20, 2025, 3:42 PM

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how does it help?

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https://drmdb.emersion.fr/snapshots/d6c656040191

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holy shit so many properties

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 3:46 PM

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native prairie how does it help?

I can compare what managarm has to what is reported there

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and it's a nice reminder of what I need to implement

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drm_info is ported to managarm ofc meme

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 3:47 PM

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I got nvidia-smi to start properly now, ig Ill have to redo the annoying proper gpu setup to be able to go further

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 3:49 PM

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holy shit lol

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if you pull my current nvo branches you should get the nvidiactl device

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hopefully that's enough

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I pushed them literal seconds ago tho

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also remember to repatch nvidia-open meme

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 3:56 PM

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nice, Ill try

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 3:58 PM

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I also updated the udev rule so you shouldn't need to change that any more

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it will autodetect any nvidia GPU

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 4:22 PM

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it still gives the error, idk which ones of the files it accesses it wants but from an strace on the host it tries ```
/sys/module/nvidia/initstate
/sys/bus/pci/devices/<addr>/config
/dev/nvidiactl
/proc/devices
/proc/driver/nvidia/capabilities/mig/config
/proc/driver/nvidia/capabilities/mig/monitor

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 4:33 PM

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the first one and the last two don't exist

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the last two were introduced with r570 for blackwell so they're probably optional

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it's probably the first one I'd guess

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 4:39 PM

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yeah maybe, ig the log could help but it has some weird format lol

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maybe I can figure it out using ghidra

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 4:40 PM

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dafuq

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is it readable on linux?

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 4:41 PM

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no

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 4:42 PM

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https://forum.exetools.com/showthread.php?t=19628

nvml debug log decrypt - Exetools

nvml debug log decrypt Source Code

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we should probably set up a package with utilities for nvidia stuff, I have some utils locally as well

upbeat smelt May 20, 2025, 4:44 PM

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government-grade encryption on the logs

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 4:45 PM

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yeah they don't give out the decoder for GSP logs either

native prairie May 20, 2025, 5:01 PM

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What the fuck why do they encrypt logs

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 5:01 PM

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NVML LOG

Build branch : r575_92
Build date   : Thu-Apr-10-15:34:31-UTC-2025
Build CL     : 35813551
Build Type   : Local build
NVML Log 5/20/2025 16:37:46.019
DEBUG:    [tid 77]    [0.005513s - nvml.c:207]    Entering initWithFlags_Underlock(void) ()
INFO:    [tid 77]    [0.006452s - nvml.c:295]    -1
INFO:    [tid 77]    [0.006662s - nvml.c:304]    
DEBUG:    [tid 77]    [0.006852s - nvml_checkpoint.c:605]    
ERROR:    [tid 77]    [0.007086s - nvml.c:310]    3
CRITICAL:    [tid 77]    [0.007706s - dmal/common/common_nvml.c:171]    26
CRITICAL:    [tid 77]    [0.007993s - unix.c:38]    /dev/nvidiactl No such device or address (ENXIO) 6
DEBUG:    [tid 77]    [0.008335s - dmal/common/common_mig.c:2614]    1b
DEBUG:    [tid 77]    [0.008685s - dmal/common/common_mig.c:2640]    1b
WARNING:    [tid 77]    [0.008873s - dmal/dmal_init.c:56]    rmDMALLayer.init
ERROR:    [tid 77]    [0.009072s - nvml.c:327]    Driver Not Loaded 9
DEBUG:    [tid 77]    [0.009225s - nvml.c:346]    Returning 9 (Driver Not Loaded)

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 5:02 PM

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brittle mauve it still gives the error, idk which ones of the files it accesses it wants but f...

yeah sounds like it wants the first file here

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wait no

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why does it not find nvidiactl

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do you see it in /dev?

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ok only 4 CUs left

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idk where it should get the header from tho

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ah I might have to just patch it out

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I think that what haiku does but it's hidden behind layers of macro defs

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 5:09 PM

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I didn't realize that the plainfb force ENV line was added lol

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 5:10 PM

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ah yeah

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I boot with plainfb.force=0 and gfx.vm=0

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ah more compilation errors

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brb after dinner

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 5:15 PM

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now it wants some ioctl at least

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 5:49 PM

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ooooh

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I need to give you the mlibc patch

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I forgor

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but this is looking good

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 5:51 PM

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yeah and the display works fine too (as in kmscon is displayed in there though its a little slow when typing)

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 5:51 PM

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📎 0001-sysdeps-managarm-handle-nvidia-ioctls.patch

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 5:53 PM

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brittle mauve yeah and the display works fine too (as in kmscon is displayed in there though i...

kmscon is a little funny and idk why yet

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I just used weston for the time being

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idk how flip completion should work ngl

carmine current May 20, 2025, 6:21 PM

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vestal sapphire https://forum.exetools.com/showthread.php?t=19628

wtf

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 6:24 PM

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brittle mauve now it wants some ioctl at least

it wanted NV_ESC_CHECK_VERSION_STR and NV_ESC_CARD_INFO (which is supposed to return a list of card infos), with that returning a zeroed list it died in nv_get_ctl_state as that's stubbed (and its supposed to return a properly filled nv_state_t, ig that's not too hard as its pci info + bars + other stuff like that along with rm_init_private_state to fill some other fields)

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 6:25 PM

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ah we need to implement those ioctls ourselves iirc

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 6:25 PM

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for the version one there was a helper but it needed a special case as its not handled by the generic rm ioctl yeah

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 6:26 PM

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we currently unconditionally defer to rm_ioctl, whereas linux handles them in nvidia.ko

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 6:27 PM

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I just changed it to a switch and added the other ones there

📎 nvo.patch

vestal sapphire May 20, 2025, 6:27 PM

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based

brittle mauve May 20, 2025, 6:27 PM

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though the card info one should also be properly implemented

dusk crystal May 26, 2025, 11:05 AM

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Hello managarm people
I was reading this: https://github.com/managarm/bootstrap-managarm/blob/master/bootstrap.d/managarm-build.y4.yml and I see there are several gccs.
Do each of them somehow match to the 3 compilations of gcc in the LFS book?

GitHub

bootstrap-managarm/bootstrap.d/managarm-build.y4.yml at master · m...

Patches and build scripts to build a managarm distribution - managarm/bootstrap-managarm

nocturne tide May 26, 2025, 11:05 AM

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no, kernel-gcc is used for building the kernel and system-gcc is used for building the system (ports and servers)

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i'm not sure what bootstrap-system-gcc is used for though

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 11:06 AM

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I'm not sure how LFS gccs work, but we have a separation between kernel and userspace

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for building userspace, we first build a bootstrap-system-gcc which is a simple cross-gcc + libgcc

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that is used to build mlibc, which then is used to build the final cross system-gcc that's used for cross-compiling programs

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also iirc bootstrap-system-gcc builds freestanding libstdc++ too

nocturne tide May 26, 2025, 11:07 AM

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in that case bootstrap-system-gcc is kind of like a stage 1 gcc and system-gcc is a stage 2 gcc

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stage 3 gcc is not applicable here since cross compilation but managarm does also have a gcc package

dusk crystal May 26, 2025, 11:11 AM

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Thanks!

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:03 PM

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https://github.com/managarm/managarm/pull/951

GitHub

Nvidia driver, part 4: modesetting driver by no92 · Pull Request #...

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meme

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please review

native prairie May 26, 2025, 9:10 PM

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crazy stuff

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i should really get my shit together

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:29 PM

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local man creates uACPI basically single-handedly

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:29 PM

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native prairie i should really get my shit together

yet says shit like this

native prairie May 26, 2025, 9:34 PM

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last time i checked it couldnt modeset nvidia trl

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:35 PM

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I've been able to modeset it for a few days already

native prairie May 26, 2025, 9:35 PM

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i mean uacpi lol

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:36 PM

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but yeah porting it took like 2 or 3 weeks, half of that time was spent dealing with stupid skill issues

native prairie May 26, 2025, 9:36 PM

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is porting 3d accel next?

vestal sapphire May 26, 2025, 9:39 PM

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yes but the NVK shit is borked af

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I'll try to actually get it to work on linux first

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that's at least pretty simple to test

native prairie May 26, 2025, 9:40 PM

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makes sense

blissful bluff May 26, 2025, 9:54 PM

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Does this mean that if I switch to mlibc, the Nvidia drivers would probably magically just work?

carmine current May 26, 2025, 10:01 PM

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The Managarm port assumes the existence of a lot of existing DRM infrastructure

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 11:55 AM

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trying to managram on physical hardware (a HP ProBook 440 G9, my old school computer) gone wrong

fair oracleBOT Jun 7, 2025, 11:55 AM

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Tag managram not found!

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 11:55 AM

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(keyboard input doesn't work)

cedar cosmos Jun 7, 2025, 11:55 AM

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.!t managarm

fair oracleBOT Jun 7, 2025, 11:55 AM

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managarm

It's Managarm, not Managram

native prairie Jun 7, 2025, 11:56 AM

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hey at least EC works lol

trim eagle Jun 7, 2025, 11:56 AM

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this might be non fatal if you just let it sit for a bit?

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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fair oracle

btw my discord is bugged and I don't see what the bot writes lol

cedar cosmos Jun 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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It's Managarm, not Managram

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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yeah, I know

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I wrote managram for lols

vestal sapphire Jun 7, 2025, 11:58 AM

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bold knot trying to managram on physical hardware (a HP ProBook 440 G9, my old school comp...

what boot option is that even

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 11:58 AM

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physical hardware kmscon but I removed serial

vestal sapphire Jun 7, 2025, 11:58 AM

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idk if they work lol

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just use the systemd kmscon option

trim eagle Jun 7, 2025, 11:58 AM

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they might work

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but won't boot kmscon

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(we kinda forgot to update those entries)

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just use the default kmscon entry?

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 12:00 PM

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should I remove the bochs?

vestal sapphire Jun 7, 2025, 12:00 PM

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yeah

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that just enables e9 logging

bold knot Jun 7, 2025, 12:02 PM

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still I get the following:

thor: No sink for IRQ io-apic.2:1
thor: IRQ io-apic.2:1 was nacked (synchronously)!
thor: Unstalling IRQ io-apic.2:1 after 100ms

carmine current Jun 7, 2025, 2:26 PM

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Maybe we should add a msi only boot option

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 1:08 PM

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ok nvidia modeset is upstream now, we ball

dusk crystal Jul 1, 2025, 1:11 PM

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incredible

native prairie Jul 1, 2025, 2:47 PM

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vestal sapphire ok nvidia modeset is upstream now, we ball

Damn

upbeat smelt Jul 1, 2025, 5:19 PM

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vestal sapphire ok nvidia modeset is upstream now, we ball

pogchamp

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 5:38 PM

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peak osdev

serene portal Jul 1, 2025, 5:38 PM

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vestal sapphire peak osdev

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 5:38 PM

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serene portal Jul 1, 2025, 5:39 PM

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xd

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 5:39 PM

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there you go

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 8:03 PM

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native prairie Jul 1, 2025, 8:33 PM

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snakemake

spring oak Jul 1, 2025, 8:33 PM

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wtf is it

vestal sapphire Jul 1, 2025, 8:42 PM

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no idea

golden maple Jul 2, 2025, 5:59 AM

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wtf is alex

vestal sapphire Jul 2, 2025, 11:03 PM

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dmidecode works

vestal sapphire Jul 7, 2025, 8:43 AM

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Hmm I wonder how difficult it would be to extract register definitions from the PRMs, kinda like the x86 instruction reference at felixcoultier

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There is only a single supplement that has an overview table, and that is only for a part of the register space and for sandy bridge

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It would be very useful as the register layout seems to have changed between sandy bridge and haswell a lot, mostly because of more hw support for things

native prairie Jul 7, 2025, 8:47 AM

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does it even list all registers?

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Last time i checked it didnt for half of them

vestal sapphire Jul 7, 2025, 8:48 AM

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Most

native prairie Jul 7, 2025, 8:48 AM

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none of the chicken ones for example

vestal sapphire Jul 7, 2025, 8:48 AM

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They are listed in the workarounds volume

native prairie Jul 7, 2025, 8:48 AM

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ah ok

vestal sapphire Jul 7, 2025, 8:49 AM

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Not a register spec but "set this bit in the register at that offset"

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There are some powerup things that are undocumented but I don't think you need to care about them

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Worst case is that you do need to set them, but you can basically treat that like a quirk

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And I'd prob discover them with vfio tracing or re'ing GOP

worn rampart Jul 7, 2025, 1:20 PM

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Sometimes Intel provides the xml that they built the PDF from

vestal sapphire Jul 7, 2025, 1:21 PM

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never seen that

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 10:56 AM

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ok I have utmpx stuff working enough for systemd to not complain

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however

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I get no keyboard input at login????

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 1:06 PM

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yeah whenever I enable logind for kmscon I get no kbd input

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 1:07 PM

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Cringe

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 1:36 PM

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ah okay the keyboard input thing is probably some sysfs or udev meme

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I patched around it for now by removing a part of qookie's original kmscon patch (0001)

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still not quite there tho

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btw dennis the fix to the --no-pager thing is easy

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 1:40 PM

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PR it in I’d say

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 1:40 PM

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export SYSTEMD_PAGER=cat

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 1:41 PM

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Oh lol

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Add it to /etc/profile

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 1:41 PM

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lmfao

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ah the no keyboard meme is due to your missing inputX eventX sysfs representation

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god I hate that shit tho

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I already tried to implement it 3 times

carmine current Jul 8, 2025, 2:01 PM

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Doesn't it make sense to focus on the syscall cancellation PR before starting another project? :^)

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 2:03 PM

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I got fed up from being stuck yesterday so I looked at logind

carmine current Jul 8, 2025, 2:31 PM

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Ah

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 2:45 PM

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I think we need PAM

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and proper shadow

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I don't think we can get around that

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sounds like we want that

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 2:52 PM

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carmine current Doesn't it make sense to focus on the syscall cancellation PR before starting an...

recheck the syscall cancellation PR for my "fix"

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last commit

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that's the best that I could come up with

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that doesn't include IRQ await cancellation stuff tho

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oops wrong remote, fixed it now

carmine current Jul 8, 2025, 3:38 PM

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I'll check in the evening

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IRQ await cancellation is not necessary anyway, I don't mind if that doesn't work

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:19 PM

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@trim eagle do you happen to have a PAM recipe I can yoink

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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Hahahaha you need Pam? Legit?

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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Yes for logind

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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I have it, but it’ll take an hour at least to access it

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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vestal sapphire Yes for logind

Figured

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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I'm not home anyways

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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I come with patches tho

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But yeah can give

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Will do whenever I boot my laptop

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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GitHub is also fine idc

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:20 PM

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Including patches for whatever needed

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Free reminder, needs config files (I’ll provide them too) and a rebuild of at least shadow outside of systemd

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:21 PM

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ez

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:21 PM

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Oh yeah been there done that

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:21 PM

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I think I'm close to logind working btw

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:22 PM

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Lemme see if I can push that shit to GH tomorrow

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That works for you?

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:22 PM

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So far everything that I tested outside of PAM worked

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But PAM is needed for sessions

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I mean we kinda need it for greeters anyways

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:22 PM

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Figured

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That’s why I ported it in the first case

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:23 PM

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Also fingerprint login ultrameme

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libfprint shouldn't be too hard

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:23 PM

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Agreed

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:24 PM

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God I love threatening myself with a good time

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:24 PM

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I have more stuff that can use or wants pam

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Id love to help with this damn it why is this week so fucking busy and why am I going on vacation after this week fuckkkkk

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:24 PM

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Bruh

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:26 PM

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Yeah yeah

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I’ll do my best to assist from vacation

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 9:26 PM

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dw

trim eagle Jul 8, 2025, 9:26 PM

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Yes I’ll worry

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I’ve been working on this shit for a while off and on and just passing it off feels wrong

vestal sapphire Jul 8, 2025, 10:51 PM

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We've both made shit that's 10x worse than this work

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This still be fine

serene portal Jul 9, 2025, 9:42 AM

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vestal sapphire libfprint shouldn't be too hard

meme

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 9:45 AM

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trim eagle Lemme see if I can push that shit to GH tomorrow

ping

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 12:07 PM

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Right

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Currently other jobs have taken priority I’ll attempt to get to it later today

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 6:30 PM

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@trim eagle happy?

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trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 6:59 PM

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I see you don’t need PAM anymore

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Yes very happy

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Please submit PR then I can take a look at it hopefully today otherwise Friday or Sunday (mind you that after Friday my availability is severely limited and VC is out for 3 weeks due to vacation)

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 8:18 PM

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trim eagle I see you don’t need PAM anymore

I just ported it lol

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 8:18 PM

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Yeah I noticed

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It’s not too bad

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:23 PM

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we ball with PAM and logind

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logoff is borked tho

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:26 PM

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Nice work

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Looking forward to the PR

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:26 PM

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it needs some mlibc work tho

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utmp and utmpx

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:26 PM

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Yeah figured

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Any other major changes?

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:27 PM

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I wrote some PAM configuration and put it in extrafiles

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I install it as a step in the PAM package

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:27 PM

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I’ll probably find a thing or two about that

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But works for now

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:39 PM

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ah I also have a degraded systemctl status

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it tries to set up [email protected] which does a few things

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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I don’t like that

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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vestal sapphire it tries to set up `[email protected]` which does a few things

Oh yeah that’s a thing

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Kinda need that probably

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Any specifics it complains about?

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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I'll fix that, I commented out some OOM and cgroups stuff

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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Yeah

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That’s a thing

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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current issue is setresgid

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ig I'll implement that?

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idk

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:40 PM

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We don’t implement that do we

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:41 PM

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we're close tho

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the PAM side of things looks smooth so far

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it's just some systemd memes

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:41 PM

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Expected

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:56 PM

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systemd[83]: Trying to run as user instance, but $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set.
systemd[1]: [email protected]: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE
systemd[1]: [email protected]: Failed with result 'exit-code'.

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this is quite annoying tho

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:56 PM

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Why is that not set

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:56 PM

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it shows up in env

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:56 PM

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Shouldn’t systemd set that (specifically logind?)

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:57 PM

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yes

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:57 PM

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vestal sapphire it shows up in `env`

Bruh

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 10:57 PM

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I'm as confused as you

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 10:57 PM

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Time to trace systemd code then I guess

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:02 PM

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I have no idea what is wrong with that

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:05 PM

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Neither do I without looking. There is a small chance I can look on Friday in an afternoon VC? But no guarantees as it fully depends on how quickly I can pack my shit and clean my room

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And how early I’m back on Friday

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After that VC is a big unknown for 3 weeks

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:14 PM

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yeah

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what I can do is to clean up the mlibc side so far

#

and push the new packages and patches somewhere

#

given that user@<UID>.service is degraded I don't think we should upstream it as-is

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

Fully agree

#

Can you make a draft bootstrap PR so I can take a first look at that and maybe take bits and pieces for upstream and then PR the mlibc side in so that is already merged and updated

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:16 PM

#

the mlibc side will take some effort

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:17 PM

#

Yeah makes sense

#

No hurry

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:17 PM

#

it's ugly parsing code so tests are obligatory

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:17 PM

#

Yep

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:17 PM

#

but overall, the changes so far are very tame if you can look past the utmp(x) stuff

#

I'm happy about this so far, ngl

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

So am I

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

letsgo

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

Feels like I have my vacation project

#

Engaging secret project 6

vestal sapphire Jul 9, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

yeah I'm happy to pass this XDG_RUNTIME_DIR shit off to you meme

trim eagle Jul 9, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

Yeah that’s a small hurdle hopefully for secret project 6

native prairie Jul 10, 2025, 12:18 AM

#

vestal sapphire we ball with PAM and logind

Leo hard carrying managarm as always

#

LETSFUCKINGGOOOOOO

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 12:19 AM

#

god I wish I did half as much as I get credit for

native prairie Jul 10, 2025, 12:19 AM

#

Lol

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:19 AM

#

The only thing missing was utmp here right?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 12:19 AM

#

and some configs and some light patching

native prairie Jul 10, 2025, 12:20 AM

#

Idk man u do crazy amounts of work

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:20 AM

#

vestal sapphire and some configs and some light patching

Aight. Then I was on the good path locally (I just didn’t have utmp, that is all yours)

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:46 AM

#

vestal sapphire yeah I'm happy to pass this XDG_RUNTIME_DIR shit off to you <:meme:5754450945896...

Hahahahahaha funny man over here thinking I can do work. Funny funny funny

#

You’re on your own as it stands for the next 3.5 weeks

#

Wanna know why?

#

Cuz my FUCKING LAPTOP DECIDED TO NO LONGER LIVE OF COURSE IT DOES

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

bruh

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

LITERAL 2 DAYS BEFORE I GO ON VACATION. THIS BITCH DIES

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

feelsbadman.jpg

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

BRB GRABBING EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ITEM

#

YES I FUCKING BROUGHT IT FROM UNI

#

CUZ FUCK THIS SHIT

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 9:48 AM

#

native prairie Leo hard carrying managarm as always

one man down, so this is inching more towards reality now

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:48 AM

#

And people wonder why I’m so fucking unstable. Wonder why

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 9:49 AM

#

just bring the box + monitor meme

carmine current Jul 10, 2025, 9:50 AM

#

grab the cheapest laptop that you can find and ssh into a remote machine halfmemeleft

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:52 AM

#

vestal sapphire just bring the box + monitor <:meme:575445094589661215>

The GF would kill me (I do plan on moving the box to the GF for the three weeks after vacation)

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 9:53 AM

#

carmine current grab the cheapest laptop that you can find and ssh into a remote machine <:halfm...

You mean the remote machine that my mom straight up turns the power off on? Funny

carmine current Jul 10, 2025, 9:54 AM

#

if you have some machine on the same LAN you could use wol

median wharf Jul 10, 2025, 9:56 AM

#

just develop from your vps

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:08 AM

#

carmine current if you have some machine on the same LAN you could use wol

I have enough stuff. But my mom is a freak and will literally switch off the extension cords

#

Can’t WOL if there’s no power to the network

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:36 AM

#

ok so I tried to enable util-linux's login instead of shadow's

#

it's completely borked

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:36 AM

#

Bad

#

Shadow login or go home

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:37 AM

#

Ideally we should use util-linux login tho?

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:37 AM

#

No?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:37 AM

#

why

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

Isn’t login provided by shadow on almost all Linux distros?

#

As it should

#

Yes

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

I thought util-linux

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

LFS pulls it out of shadow

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

ok then

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

What’s the problem you’re running into atm?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

one sec

#

XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is set by pam_systemd.so

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:40 AM

#

Makes sense

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:40 AM

#

however [email protected] doesn't have it set

#

idk why

#

pam_systemd.so is the only place that sets it

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:41 AM

#

I thought you handed that off to me for debugging in the vacation (laptop is currently away for diagnosis, here’s to hoping it’s fixed in time)

#

Else i can tackle it after vacation

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:41 AM

#

sure

#

I was just hoping to make it work quicker meme

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:41 AM

#

Real

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

is it maybe that we need some more config?

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

But no hurry on logind as it’s not required by anything atm

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

vestal sapphire is it maybe that we need some more config?

Post PRs so I can check

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

so that the user service inherits its env from login?

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

Wouldn’t be surprised

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

vestal sapphire so that the user service inherits its env from login?

Euhhhh idk. Lemme pull up the systemd repo on my phone rq

#

Question

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:44 AM

#

I mean looking at the kmscon upstream service

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:44 AM

#

We use kmscon upstream no?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:44 AM

#

we might want to use some of that

#

agetty for instance looks like a thing that might do funni stuff

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:45 AM

#

Im a big fan of agetty but it brokey

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:45 AM

#

vestal sapphire I mean looking at the kmscon upstream service

This runtime dir, is that /run/user/id?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:46 AM

#

yes

#

using the upstream service file while adding the wait-for-devices thing gets me a new funni

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

Do we do anything with user-runtime-dir.service? Or is that newer systemd

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

I fear it's getopt memes

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

vestal sapphire using the upstream service file while adding the wait-for-devices thing gets me ...

Again, I’m pretty sure I stole the kmscon service file from upstream?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

trim eagle Do we do anything with user-runtime-dir.service? Or is that newer systemd

that's successful, the dir exists

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

trim eagle Again, I’m pretty sure I stole the kmscon service file from upstream?

nope we nuked half of it

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

Ah

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

https://github.com/Aetf/kmscon/blob/develop/docs/kmscon.service.in

GitHub

kmscon/docs/kmscon.service.in at develop · Aetf/kmscon

Linux KMS/DRM based virtual Console Emulator. Contribute to Aetf/kmscon development by creating an account on GitHub.

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

Of course I did

#

Noted

#

But yeah if you want that then agetty needs to work

#

And it does not

#

Util-Linux provides it

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:48 AM

#

I think we need that ngl

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

Then util-linux is your best friend

#

(Or worst nightmare)

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

it's a getopt_long meme

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

Of course it is

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

oh god

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 11:05 AM

#

mlibc: pututxline() failed to seek in 3: Unknown error code (?)
agetty[83]: -: not open for read/write

#

getopt_long was an easy fix tho

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 11:07 AM

#

Nice

carmine current Jul 10, 2025, 12:00 PM

#

$ login --version
login from util-linux 2.41

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:00 PM

#

Interesting

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 12:01 PM

#

same here

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:03 PM

#

LFS en Gentoo don’t agree

#

Very interesting

#

I would recommend to use the one from shadow. Apparently the util-Linux version is usually a fallback? (Okay basing on ChatGPT but w/e)

#

Honestly surprised Debian defaults to this

mild jetty Jul 10, 2025, 12:13 PM

#

on arch it's util-linux as well

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:17 PM

#

Very interesting

#

Lemme do more research

#

I see I see. Util-Linux requires PAM for this stuff. It’s also not clear if u-l can replace the entire shadow stack. If not, we need to hand remove conflicting files from shadow as shadow does not support configure switches to disable installing them

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 12:33 PM

#

bruh

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 12:33 PM

#

So for now, I propose keeping the shadow versions

#

And we can look at this later

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 1:32 PM

#

okay I'm getting further, now it wants some ioctl

#

okay I have kmscon with agetty

#

also spicy

#

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 1:52 PM

#

Interesting

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 4:08 PM

#

okay the mlibc side of syscall cancellation should be good I think

#

I'll clean up the managarm side next

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 4:08 PM

#

Mlibc utmp after that meme ?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 4:08 PM

#

I'll do some smaller fixes first

#

utmp needs some work + tests

#

it would also be real nice to get #924 reviewed + merged

#

half of that is just yehuda's tests

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

Understandable

#

I’ll be out for most of the day, considering I just had the graduation of the GF and we’re going out for dinner now

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

ah have fun then

trim eagle Jul 10, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

Will do

#

Also

#

#1344765127383322659 message @vestal sapphire

#

Check that

#

And laugh with me

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 4:13 PM

#

meme

#

I pushed some cleanup to the managarm side of the cancellation stuff too

#

there's still a few open comments but I don't really know what to do about them

carmine current Jul 10, 2025, 5:07 PM

#

anybody in VC today?

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 5:07 PM

#

me

carmine current Jul 10, 2025, 5:09 PM

#

👍 i'll also join, but probably only at 9pm or so

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 5:09 PM

#

just ping if I'm not here as always

vestal sapphire Jul 10, 2025, 7:47 PM

#

carmine current 👍 i'll also join, but probably only at 9pm or so

meme

trim eagle Jul 11, 2025, 8:31 AM

#

Okay laptop update: apparently it starts again?

#

I expect to be able to grab it this evening and then it can go along on vacation

#

We ball

carmine current Jul 11, 2025, 9:46 AM

#

nice

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:14 AM

#

re the syscall cancellation signal changes

#

it seems to mostly work

#

except for the small detail that if I run cat, press Ctrl+C, cat does get killed, but bash's wait never succeeds

#

I don't really understand why

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:19 AM

#

do we make it to Process::terminate()?

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:20 AM

#

yes

#

but it's being weird about it

#

the code block with the split signal handling is a bit too verbose rn but should work

#

            if (!delayedSignal) {
                async::cancellation_event ev;
                ev.cancel();
                auto active =
                    co_await self->signalContext()->fetchSignal(~self->signalMask(), {ev});

                if (active) {
                    auto handling = self->signalContext()->determineHandling(active, self.get());

                    if (handling.killed) {
                        co_await self->signalContext()->raiseContext(active, self.get(), handling);
                        break;
                    } else if (handling.ignored) {
                        co_await self->signalContext()->raiseContext(active, self.get(), handling);
                    } else {
                        if (self->checkOrRequestSignalRaise()) {
                            co_await self->signalContext()->raiseContext(active, self.get(), handling);
                        } else {
                            self->cancelEvent();
                            delayedSignal = active;
                            delayedSignalHandling = handling;
                        }
                    }
                }
            }

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:24 AM

#

vestal sapphire except for the small detail that if I run `cat`, press Ctrl+C, cat does get kill...

i think this should be relatively easy to trace though

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:24 AM

#

so did I but I don't see the problem

#

the terminated process gets added to the parent's notifyQueue

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:24 AM

#

it can basically only means that either the process is not terminated correctly in posix (= we don't make it to the end of terminate() where we enqueue the notification for the parent)

#

or the wait() in bash doesn't return

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:25 AM

#

but for some reason Process::wait never returns

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:25 AM

#

are there any changes in wait()?

#

iirc there was some change to make wait() cancelable, maybe that should be reverted for testing?

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:25 AM

#

it's not the awaits that wait for signal and request handlers to exit btw, those return

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:26 AM

#

maybe bash has a the SIGCHLD handler (not unlikely) and that messes up the wait?

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:26 AM

#

no idea

#

how would that mess with the wait

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:26 AM

#

i guess the should cause wait() to return with EINTR

#

upon receiving SIGCHLD

#

but i'm not entirely sure how the interaction works

#

I think the easiest option is to not make wait() cancelable for now

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:36 AM

#

hmm ig in the race_and_cancel the awaitEvent never returns

#

#

guess I'll trace this a bit better tomorrow, gtg now

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:39 AM

#

I'd just make wait() non-cancelable for now

#

and extract that into a separate PR

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 8:45 AM

#

might try that tomorrow

#

ok what's happening is that in the race_and_cancel, Process::wait returns

#

but the other lambda doesn't get cancelled?

#

so the race_and_cancel ends up hanging

#

so basically I get the log Process::wait done but I don't get AwaitEvent done, or WAIT pid={} done

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 10:20 AM

#

sounds like a bug in the kernel awaitEvent cancellation

vestal sapphire Jul 13, 2025, 12:51 PM

#

Yeah I suspected that to but I didn't see anything wrong

#

I should try stashing the changes to that code tho

#

I didn't do that yet

carmine current Jul 13, 2025, 8:26 PM

#

vestal sapphire I should try stashing the changes to that code tho

Stashing the changes is probably not a good idea since the previous state was broken

#

You could push the current state to a branch though

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 10:24 AM

#

ok what's super weird is that even when I comment out the race_and_cancel for the wait() call, the userspace's wait request never returns

#

oh wait it does, it just doesn't show up in wireshark

#

wtf

#

ok I see the problem now?

#

the returned bragi message reports a PID of zero?????????????

#

what

#

ah no

#

ok so the wait returns

#

but userspace is stuck on this apparently

#

this is some shared library, I assume libc

carmine current Jul 14, 2025, 10:54 AM

#

in the currently pushed mlibc changes, waitpid() has no SignalGuard anymore

#

that looks like a problem

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 10:58 AM

#

I have one locally

carmine current Jul 14, 2025, 11:13 AM

#

the lock cmpxchg may be the one in _waitProgressFutex

#

but that loop should terminate

#

and then go into helFutexWait

#

unless that futex wait is repeatedly interrupted

#

which would be weird though

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 12:48 PM

#

I just came back after lunch

#

and now it works

#

I am getting royally trolled

#

okay only kind of

#

but at least bash now gives me a prompt after cancellation

#

the read doesn't terminate entirely correctly now tho

trim eagle Jul 14, 2025, 12:59 PM

#

Progress tho

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 2:01 PM

#

ok I have had a few instances where I want to wait for any one of a set of cancellation_tokens to be cancelled

#

could we have a helper for that?

#

I don't know if that's correct but something like this

template<std::convertible_to<async::cancellation_token>... CancelToken>
async::result<void> race_cancel_tokens(CancelToken... tokens) {
    async::cancellation_event ce;
    auto cb = std::forward_as_tuple(async::cancellation_callback{tokens, [&ce]{ ce.cancel(); }}...);

    co_await async::suspend_indefinitely({ce});
}

carmine current Jul 14, 2025, 3:54 PM

#

vestal sapphire ok I have had a few instances where I want to wait for any one of a set of cance...

why is that necessary?

#

Does that always involve race_and_cancel?

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 3:55 PM

#

yeah

#

ig it makes sense in the observeThread stuff where we get a generation->cancelServe

#

otherwise the Process lives on (indefinitely?)

carmine current Jul 14, 2025, 4:08 PM

#

We need to make race_and_cancel cancelable

#

By letting it take a cancellation_token and then adding a cancellation_observer to its implementation

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 4:09 PM

#

bruh

carmine current Jul 14, 2025, 4:45 PM

#

That shouldn't be very difficult

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 4:45 PM

#

it's libasync code

#

so that's a lie

trim eagle Jul 14, 2025, 4:46 PM

#

kekw

vestal sapphire Jul 14, 2025, 4:59 PM

#

ig what happened is that I didn't cancel outstanding stuff for signals that kill the process

#

however if I do that I get hangs

#

I'm confused ngl

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 9:27 AM

#

I have implemented the wait_if changes in libasync that should make the recurring_event::async_wait() return more useful ig

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 10:03 AM

#

Work update, I might be able to start looking at secret project 6 later today

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 10:05 AM

#

based

serene portal Jul 15, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

based

wind hamlet Jul 15, 2025, 10:57 AM

#

i wonder what secret project 6 is

short gazelle Jul 15, 2025, 10:57 AM

#

it seems like it’s secret project 6

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 10:58 AM

#

Indeed it is secret project 6

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 10:58 AM

#

I figured it out meme

#

it's not impossible to guess

wind hamlet Jul 15, 2025, 10:59 AM

#

managarm RiiR

#

jk

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

you can write servers in rust

#

soon™

#

speaking of, I should prob rebase our rust upstreaming work

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

wind hamlet managarm RiiR

I’d rather use noose ngl

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

eir RiiR

#

meme

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:02 AM

#

Be right back grabbing the emergency 12 gauge

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:03 AM

#

hmm ig what I could do that doesn't touch other code is making everything use the note passing mechanism for passing data from eir to thor

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:03 AM

#

That’s a good thing. Yeah

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:06 AM

#

btw why do we have a split /usr/(s)bin

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:06 AM

#

Why not

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:07 AM

#

it's annoying meme

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:07 AM

#

Why is it annoying?

vestal sapphire Jul 15, 2025, 11:07 AM

#

when you have to figure out if something is in sbin or bin

carmine current Jul 15, 2025, 11:08 AM

#

vestal sapphire hmm ig what I could do that doesn't touch other code is making everything use th...

That would be cool

trim eagle Jul 15, 2025, 11:08 AM

#

vestal sapphire when you have to figure out if something is in sbin or bin

Meh. No effort here

carmine current Jul 15, 2025, 11:08 AM

#

At least all fixed size data could easily be converted

trim eagle Jul 16, 2025, 8:47 AM

#

trim eagle Work update, I might be able to start looking at secret project 6 later today

Did no work cuz network dogshit. I think we fixed that shit tho so maybe today?

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 10:14 AM

#

apparently we have kcalc

trim eagle Jul 23, 2025, 10:14 AM

#

We have

#

For a while

#

Lmao

#

@vestal sapphire see here

native prairie Jul 23, 2025, 10:24 AM

#

Lol

#

Only Kate left

golden maple Jul 23, 2025, 10:51 AM

#

vestal sapphire apparently we have kcalc

when vs code port

native prairie Jul 23, 2025, 10:51 AM

#

after chrome

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 11:29 AM

#

we did run chromium

#

once

#

would be funni to get that going again but effort

#

managarm, the dedicated ___ OS

#

would be especially funny when paired with qwinci's audio work

native prairie Jul 23, 2025, 11:52 AM

#

ngl a vscode port would probably blow up osdev reddit

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 11:53 AM

#

nah r/osdev is lost

#

GDT init ... OK OS is what blows that subreddit up

native prairie Jul 23, 2025, 11:53 AM

#

lmao

nocturne tide Jul 23, 2025, 12:14 PM

#

managarm the goon os

golden maple Jul 23, 2025, 12:54 PM

#

vestal sapphire `GDT init ... OK` OS is what blows that subreddit up

how they posting some

#

i even cant post some my post gets immediately removed by reddit filters 🙏

carmine current Jul 23, 2025, 1:56 PM

#

cross post from Managarm server: some basic hardware CI infrastructure

#

this turns a rpi4 on/off programmatically and captures serial

native prairie Jul 23, 2025, 2:41 PM

#

Failed assertion for that native assertos feel meme

carmine current Jul 23, 2025, 2:57 PM

#

if you ask me, failing with a missing initrd is better than executing garbage instructions ;D

trim eagle Jul 23, 2025, 3:08 PM

#

native prairie after chrome

One day

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 6:40 PM

#

SYSCALL CANCELLATION IS MERGED

golden maple Jul 23, 2025, 6:42 PM

#

vestal sapphire SYSCALL CANCELLATION IS MERGED

what is syscall cancellation

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 6:47 PM

#

assume you have a blocking read like with cat

#

and you get a signal like SIGINT

#

the read should then return EINTR (if nothing was read) or a partial read

#

if you don't cancel the syscall, the read wouldn't get interrupted

lament grove Jul 23, 2025, 6:50 PM

#

vestal sapphire SYSCALL CANCELLATION IS MERGED

letsgo

carmine current Jul 23, 2025, 8:49 PM

#

leo made a test that works but only under strace ultrameme

trim eagle Jul 23, 2025, 8:50 PM

#

meme

vestal sapphire Jul 23, 2025, 8:55 PM

#

my classic managarm dev experience really

#

serene portal Jul 23, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

the general computer experience

trim eagle Jul 23, 2025, 9:31 PM

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meme

shrewd grove Jul 24, 2025, 7:36 AM

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carmine current

this is super cool, very nice

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:23 PM

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vestal sapphire

managarm is a concept, not a functional os

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:24 PM

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my systemd booted Managarm into a wayland compositor running KDE apps and Discord (in the browser) begs to differ ultrameme

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:27 PM

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on what architecture?

carmine current Jul 24, 2025, 5:28 PM

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Managarm is closer to being a functional OS than almost all hobby OSes

native prairie Jul 24, 2025, 5:28 PM

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mossy swallow managarm is a concept, not a functional os

huh

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its not daily drivable but definitely not a concept lol

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:30 PM

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what I said was a joke (bad I admit) in response to this meme

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:31 PM

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mossy swallow on what architecture?

AMD64 of course. The one and only

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:31 PM

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mossy swallow what I said was a joke (bad I admit) in response to this meme

Kinda got that

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:32 PM

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trim eagle AMD64 of course. The one and only

(I suspect systemd to work on aarch64 too but I didn’t test it myself, and full disclosure the browser kinda broke, it’s on the to fix stack but it is big and I’m on vacation)

native prairie Jul 24, 2025, 5:33 PM

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which browser

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:35 PM

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I have never been able to test a good version of managarm because I do not master the compilation toolchain, is the policy still not to offer a release for those who want to test?

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:35 PM

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We make nightly images

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:35 PM

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native prairie which browser

Webkitgtk

native prairie Jul 24, 2025, 5:35 PM

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ditch webkit embrace chromium

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:36 PM

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mossy swallow I have never been able to test a good version of managarm because I do not maste...

https://builds.managarm.org/projects/managarm/2025-07-24T16:17:13/repo/files/x86_64/image.xz latest successful CI run produced this

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:36 PM

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native prairie ditch webkit embrace chromium

Yes yes one day

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:36 PM

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trim eagle https://builds.managarm.org/projects/managarm/2025-07-24T16:17:13/repo/files/x86...

thanks you

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:38 PM

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https://docs.managarm.org/handbook/getting-started/trying-out.html for qemu instructions

Trying Out - Managarm Handbook

mossy swallow Jul 24, 2025, 5:43 PM

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I'm going to test it on VirtualBox, because I can't configure the network cards properly on QEMU.

trim eagle Jul 24, 2025, 5:45 PM

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Sure thing. If something doesn’t work please do open an issue on https://github.com/managarm/managarm (oh and the sway boot option won’t work by default as the nightly image doesn’t install sway into it)

GitHub

GitHub - managarm/managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with ful...

Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with fully asynchronous I/O - managarm/managarm

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:04 PM

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ok I think I implemented the logic for SIG_IGN-ing SIGCHLD

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also SA_NOCLDWAIT

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posted as https://github.com/managarm/managarm/pull/975

GitHub

`SIG_IGN` of `SIGCHLD` and `SA_NOCLDWAIT` handling by no92 · Pull ...

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doesn't even need mlibc changes meme

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:16 PM

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nice

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does this fix exiting out of bash in weston-terminal not closing the terminal window?

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or is that something else entirely being broken

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:17 PM

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I didn't test that

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let's see

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:19 PM

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that's like one of the longest standing bugs

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i recall it being there when i was first poking at managarm in 2018/19

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:20 PM

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nope

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:20 PM

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ah damn

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i do wonder what that's about

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:20 PM

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Ctrl+D on that is still borked

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ig it would be nice to figure that out, maybe with wireshark?

nocturne tide Jul 27, 2025, 1:21 PM

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i need to look at ptrace at some point

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or at least the bare minimum for implementing some simple strace-like tool

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it would also be kinda based to be able to debug with gdb

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:22 PM

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coredumps meme

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I didn't upstream that yet tho

nocturne tide Jul 27, 2025, 1:23 PM

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running and being able to live debug something would be way more fun tho

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but coredumps are based too

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:26 PM

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for testing the weston-terminal thing it might be easier to test weston-terminal --shell=/usr/bin/true

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so you don't get any bash stuff in the logs

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and only get a blank terminal that's supposed to close immediately

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:27 PM

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I'm looking at the wireshark dumps for bash withing weston-terminal, it's looking fine tho

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:34 PM

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btw i think next best request to implement cancellation for would be poll :^)

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so you can ^C x/wayland apps

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or well, you can do that now, but you need to do something that causes an event to be sent over the socket for it to wake up from the poll and try reading instead

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:53 PM

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upbeat smelt for testing the weston-terminal thing it might be easier to test `weston-termina...

the only funni log I get from that is pts.slave not implementing handleClose

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:53 PM

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maybe it's stuck in a poll with the master fd?

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and is waiting for it to end with POLLHUP?

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:53 PM

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hmm sounds plausible

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:55 PM

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static void
io_handler(struct task *task, uint32_t events)
{
    struct terminal *terminal =
        container_of(task, struct terminal, io_task);
    char buffer[256];
    int len;

    if (events & EPOLLHUP) {
        terminal_destroy(terminal);
        return;
    }

    len = read(terminal->master, buffer, sizeof buffer);
    if (len < 0) {
        terminal_destroy(terminal);
        return;
    }

    terminal_data(terminal, buffer, len);
}

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:^)

vestal sapphire Jul 27, 2025, 1:57 PM

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ok

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I have to leave in 5 min so ig I'll implement that tomorrow

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pls review #975 in the meantime tho halfmemeleft

upbeat smelt Jul 27, 2025, 1:58 PM

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upbeat smelt ```c static void io_handler(struct task *task, uint32_t events) { struct ter...

interesting that it doesn't wait anywhere in the terminal though?

vestal sapphire Jul 28, 2025, 3:13 PM

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hmm weird, naively making the master end of the pty just return POLLHUP when the last slave closed leads to weston-terminal instantly closing

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meme

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weird

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if I understand the logic correctly, handleClose should be called when the last fd refering to the file closes?

vestal sapphire Jul 28, 2025, 3:20 PM

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upbeat smelt interesting that it doesn't `wait` anywhere in the terminal though?

SA_NOCLDWAIT my beloved

vestal sapphire Jul 28, 2025, 4:55 PM

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we ball

trim eagle Jul 28, 2025, 5:03 PM

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Nice

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:43 PM

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coredumps work letsgo

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:56 PM

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Damn

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Leo solo carrying managarm again

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:56 PM

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vestal sapphire coredumps work <:letsgo:1282155513156468747>

What's required to generate one?

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:56 PM

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you just write out a funni ELF file

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with a few note sections

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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How complex is it?

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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and then you just dump memory

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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native prairie How complex is it?

fairly easy

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Do u dump it from the kernel?

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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nah the posix server

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Damn

mild jetty Aug 1, 2025, 4:57 PM

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in a classic monolithic system it'd be the kernel though right

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 4:58 PM

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yes

mild jetty Aug 1, 2025, 4:58 PM

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just for future reference if I ever get to implementing it

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 4:59 PM

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vestal sapphire and then you just dump memory

Like the .data and .bss or dynamically allocated stuff also

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 5:00 PM

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no, you just iterate the VMAs and dump some of them

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 5:00 PM

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Interesting

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Some?

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 5:00 PM

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you list all VMAs as PHDRs

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and the ones with a fileSz != 0 are appended at the end of the file basically

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 5:00 PM

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Ill definitely do that as well

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 5:01 PM

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yeah it's pretty easy

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there are a few note sections that are annoying to compile the data for

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and dumping them is super annoying

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 5:01 PM

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Why is that?

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 5:01 PM

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readelf treats them as binary data meme

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you need to use eu-readelf -n

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it took me a while to figure that part out ngl

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 5:02 PM

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Lol

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What does EU stand for

vestal sapphire Aug 1, 2025, 5:03 PM

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elfutils

native prairie Aug 1, 2025, 5:03 PM

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Ah

upbeat smelt Aug 1, 2025, 5:07 PM

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now let's see paul allen's elfutils

carmine current Aug 1, 2025, 10:11 PM

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launching on the raspberry pi is now basically as fast as starting qemu

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this is over an internet connection, not local LAN

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4 seconds from launching the command to first line of raspi firmware

trim eagle Aug 1, 2025, 10:35 PM

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Nice work!

zinc remnant Aug 3, 2025, 9:16 PM

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Does this contain the intel iGpu driver collection thingy in this thread?

trim eagle Aug 3, 2025, 9:17 PM

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@vestal sapphire LIL questions asked

zinc remnant Aug 3, 2025, 9:19 PM

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Yeah so are there any plans to eventually add support for amd integrated graphics? Or is the plan to be intel only?

vestal sapphire Aug 3, 2025, 9:22 PM

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if someone contributes amd drivers, sure

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I'm not doing it tho

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amdgpu driver looks like significantly more effort than both intel and nvidia

nocturne tide Aug 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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mlibc#1398 and managarm#995 gets us to desktop on riscv64 :^) hopefully after doing some more signal memes we can get a working terminal

lament grove Aug 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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nocturne tide [mlibc#1398](<https://github.com/managarm/mlibc/pull/1398>) and [managarm#995](<...

yooo

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I don't have it handy the next couple weeks but lmk if you want to test on my HiFive Unmatched

nocturne tide Aug 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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that would be cool, but i'm absolutely unsure about hardware support but if it can run limine (needs uefi) then maybe it's worth a try?

lament grove Aug 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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It definitely does

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I do that for running BadgerOS on it already

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Last time it didn't boot because of some bug in thor IIRC but that's a while ago now

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There are 31 GPRs, not 30. 32 including PC.

nocturne tide Aug 4, 2025, 10:30 PM

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isn't it x0-x31?

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so excluding x0 (constant 0) it's 30

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wait x0-x31 is 32 ☠️

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-                for(int i = 0; i < 30; i++)
-                        regs[i + 1] = thread->_executor.general()->x(i + 1);
+                for(int i = 1; i < 32; i++)
+                        regs[i] = thread->_executor.general()->x(i);

does that look correct too? seems more correct to loop over all gprs skipping x0

lament grove Aug 4, 2025, 10:53 PM

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Yes

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I use the spot where x0 would be for the PC but you're probably already doing that.

nocturne tide Aug 4, 2025, 10:56 PM

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yup exactly

serene portal Aug 5, 2025, 10:46 AM

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lament grove There are *31* GPRs, not 30. 32 including PC.

but pc is not a normal register

carmine current Aug 5, 2025, 10:54 AM

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well, there are 32 grps (one of which is zero) and PC

lament grove Aug 5, 2025, 12:20 PM

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serene portal but pc is not a normal register

x0 is hardwired zero so PC is often put in the first slot out of 32 because of convenience

nocturne tide Aug 5, 2025, 9:12 PM

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with signals fixed we can run a shell :^)

native prairie Aug 5, 2025, 9:16 PM

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damn and u say u cant do anything

nocturne tide Aug 5, 2025, 9:33 PM

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i was just filling in holes

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the only original piece of code i kinda wrote is the msi allocation and routing for riscv

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but i am happy with this result ;) getting something to work with not much effort is nice

vestal sapphire Aug 6, 2025, 1:19 AM

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nocturne tide but i am happy with this result ;) getting something to work with not much effor...

welcome to the managarm pipeline

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getting sway in took 2.5 years

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I did take breaks tho

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it gets better

median wharf Aug 6, 2025, 8:12 AM

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sick

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 9:06 AM

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this means that Managarm can now boot and run desktop environments on all three supported architectures

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now we just need some more riscv drivers for real hw to be able to claim that we can also do it on all three archs on real hardware

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ultrameme

trim eagle Aug 6, 2025, 9:08 AM

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Wellllll. Which real AArch64 hardware do we run on now then?

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 9:12 AM

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raspi4

trim eagle Aug 6, 2025, 9:15 AM

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Oh I thought we were still missing stuff there

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I guess USB boot cuz we don’t have a SD card driver yet right

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 9:15 AM

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we're missing some patches by qookie that already exist though

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and xhci is not fully functional

trim eagle Aug 6, 2025, 9:15 AM

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Yeah ok that makes sense

serene portal Aug 6, 2025, 9:23 AM

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iirc eir-uefi is also broken on aarch64

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that's my fault i guess?

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 10:10 AM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

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what's happens if you run it?

vestal sapphire Aug 6, 2025, 11:05 AM

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good news, I got webkitgtk to compile again

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bad news, just opening managarm.org gives me 3 dead threads meme

trim eagle Aug 6, 2025, 11:06 AM

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Yeah

brittle mauve Aug 6, 2025, 11:13 AM

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also there are the socket leaks in the netserver

serene portal Aug 6, 2025, 11:14 AM

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carmine current what's happens if you run it?

uefi exception

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idr which one

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i think it said synchronous exception

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 11:46 AM

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brittle mauve also there are the socket leaks in the netserver

socket leaks?

brittle mauve Aug 6, 2025, 11:47 AM

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there was some kind of misuse of a weak ptr where its promoted to a normal shared ptr and stored creating a reference cycle

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or actually it wasn't a reference cycle, its just that a shared_ptr<Tcp4Socket> is stored inside a vector in Tcp4 and only removed from there inside Tcp4Socket destructor (that never gets called because the Tcp4 keeps ref to it)

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 11:56 AM

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ah

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i guess the fix is removing it on close, not when it's destructed

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close = the file lane (not the passthrough lane) is closed

brittle mauve Aug 6, 2025, 11:58 AM

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what I did for that when I tried to make the tcp server stuff work was to just change Tcp4 to instead store a vector of normal pointers

nocturne tide Aug 6, 2025, 11:58 AM

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what's Tcp4 anyway? what is that object supposed to represent?

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the entire machinery behind handling any incoming ipv4 tcp connections?

brittle mauve Aug 6, 2025, 11:59 AM

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struct Tcp4 {
    void feedDatagram(smarter::shared_ptr<const Ip4Packet>);
    bool tryBind(smarter::shared_ptr<Tcp4Socket> socket, TcpEndpoint ipAddress);
    bool unbind(TcpEndpoint remote);
    void serveSocket(int flags, helix::UniqueLane lane);

private:
    std::map<TcpEndpoint, smarter::shared_ptr<Tcp4Socket>> binds;
};

nocturne tide Aug 6, 2025, 12:00 PM

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so yeah, it's the state used to manage tcp connections i guess

brittle mauve Aug 6, 2025, 12:00 PM

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yeah

carmine current Aug 6, 2025, 12:02 PM

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basically the set of all bound sockets

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the IP header tells us if a packet is tcp or udp but not what port it's addressed at

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so Tcp4's job is figuring that out

vestal sapphire Aug 7, 2025, 9:32 AM

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coming to a mlibc build near you soon™

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ngl that was easier than I thought

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btw I was able to just copy/paste the CFI annotations from the linux sysdep into managarm meme

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so if 1401 gets merged the managarm sysdep will be ezpz

trim eagle Aug 9, 2025, 1:51 PM

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decided to try and see if the Vulkan based version of glxgears works. It does, after enabling a vulkan driver in mesa, without patching

vestal sapphire Aug 10, 2025, 1:28 PM

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carmine current Aug 10, 2025, 1:47 PM

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very cool

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Btw does /usr/managarm/bin/gen-initrd.py work? :^)

native prairie Aug 10, 2025, 1:48 PM

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damn

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now try cloning linux

carmine current Aug 10, 2025, 1:48 PM

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from Managarm?

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that'll probably run out of disk unless leo has a very large image lol

trim eagle Aug 11, 2025, 2:27 AM

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we fixed GNOME Calculator!

lament grove Aug 14, 2025, 10:08 AM

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What does managarm do for USB?

trim eagle Aug 14, 2025, 10:54 AM

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How do you mean exactly? What kind of information are you looking for?

lament grove Aug 14, 2025, 11:18 AM

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Do you use existing libraries? How do you handle HID? How about USB MSC devices?

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How about devices that use vendor-specific interfaces? Is there any sort of support for that (at least in the sense you could make a driver if you wanted to)?

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I'm basically looking into what the USB because I want to be able to use USB HID and USB MSC myself.

brittle mauve Aug 14, 2025, 11:23 AM

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lament grove Do you use existing libraries? How do you handle HID? How about USB MSC devices?

all the usb drivers on managarm are in the drivers/usb folder, you could look there

lament grove Aug 14, 2025, 11:24 AM

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From what I see there, it looks like Managarm has its own USB drivers

brittle mauve Aug 14, 2025, 11:24 AM

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yeah

lament grove Aug 14, 2025, 11:25 AM

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I guess I'll be doing something similar myself at some point

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But I don't think I'll support older USB controllers

vestal sapphire Aug 14, 2025, 11:33 AM

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we just have our own HID driver, and that should support the basics of mouse/keyboard/touch input

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for the rest, we have some class drivers like ECM, NCM, MBIM etc

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you could just write drivers for vendor-specific interfaces, but we haven't upstreamed any such driver yet

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I do have toyed around with a driver for the vendor interface of an ASIX AX88772B and a RTL8153, but that's not ready yet

mossy swallow Aug 14, 2025, 11:22 PM

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lament grove I'm basically looking into what the USB because I want to be able to use USB HID...

Here is a book about USB driver development: https://www.amazon.fr/USB-Universal-Benjamin-David-Lunt-dp-1717425364/dp/1717425364/ref=dp_ob_title_bk This is a very good source of information and the author answers questions on the osdev forum.

USB: The Universal Serial Bus

Have you ever wondered how to use the USB hardware to send and receive data from an attached device? Wondered how to detect and initialize the controller, retrieve the device's descriptors, configure the device, and then communicate with it to send or retrieve its data? This book explains the ins...

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Honestly, since I got the book, I haven't needed to ask him any questions. 🤣

vestal sapphire Aug 15, 2025, 1:52 PM

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@trim eagle

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fluke pass of gapplication test

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it's inconsistent tho

short gazelle Aug 22, 2025, 7:30 AM

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managram ded

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 7:58 AM

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short gazelle managram ded

fake news

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 8:01 AM

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Managarm is doing great in the last few weeks

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We got a driver for the bpi-f3's NIC

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which we can now boot using NVMe over TCP

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Also, we (or rather, qookie) upstreamed a bit of work for the raspberry pi including proper DMA barriers for non coherent memory

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and @nocturne tide made Managarm boot to userspace on Apple M1 real hardware

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with a driver for Apple's AIC interrupt controller

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and running the kernel in EL2

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also, Leo fixed a lot of bugs and he almost has thread groups and non-trivial Linux clone() flags working

short gazelle Aug 22, 2025, 8:05 AM

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carmine current and <@796462670995390524> made Managarm boot to userspace on Apple M1 real hardw...

thats ultra kewl

trim eagle Aug 22, 2025, 8:32 AM

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If we’re talking past few weeks, we also got gtk4 to work properly, tested that with gnome-calculator and made the ports collection grow to 400 recently

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(And now I don’t have to think about the failure that is Secret Project 6)

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 8:39 AM

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btw @trim eagle did you upstream libqalculate?

trim eagle Aug 22, 2025, 9:13 AM

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I did not

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But I can cherry-pick it for upstream next time I remember

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 11:25 AM

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carmine current and <@796462670995390524> made Managarm boot to userspace on Apple M1 real hardw...

related pic :^)

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sadly you can’t really see it’s a mac so i’ll get a proper pic later

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 11:52 AM

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nocturne tide related pic :^)

It uses some proprietary nvme command set right

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But insane work

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 11:58 AM

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native prairie It uses some proprietary nvme command set right

you need an rtkit driver for the nvme to work, rtkit is some sort of operating system (???) and it uses shared memory for ipc, im not sure how it ties with the nvme but we’ll see :^)

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 11:59 AM

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Wait what the hell

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 11:59 AM

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i don’t have nvme yet, all that we did recently is a few kernel/eir changes so it boots and passes a framebuffer, also some changes for correctness because a lot of existing arm code did not anticipate such a dumb interrupt controller

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 11:59 AM

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Why did they have to complicate it so much

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 11:59 AM

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it would be amazing to get nvme to work but im sure its not trivial

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 12:00 PM

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native prairie Why did they have to complicate it so much

because otherwise it wouldn’t be apple :^(

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 12:00 PM

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Real

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 12:00 PM

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rtkit has had a few cves in the past lmao

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so it’s a great example that complexity only introduces vulnerabilities

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excessive complexity* i guess

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it could have been a simple nvme hooked up over pci but that wouldn’t be complicated enough lmao

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but maybe thats how they can achieve 40+gbit transfer rates for their nvmes without much effort

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actually i might be lying, idk how fast they go but i think they can do 10GB/s RW

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or maybe 10Gb/s, which doesn’t sound so impressive anymore

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they can apparently do between 3-5GB/s depending on the size and model

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in some cases up to 7GB/s

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30-40Gbit/s is pretty fast

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 12:10 PM

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nocturne tide they can apparently do between 3-5GB/s depending on the size and model

That sounds like a more or less conventional nvme

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 12:12 PM

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tbh the apple aic is not that bad

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It's actually pretty simple

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Aside from the fact that it uses FIQs instead of IRQs for the timer

vestal sapphire Aug 22, 2025, 12:24 PM

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the apple NVMe situation is objectively just dumb

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they get slow ass NVMes that are just special for no reason

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with an insane controller that they had to spend time and money on

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just for every comercially available SSD to run circles around that

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they just shot themselves in the foot ngl

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but ig they can charge dumb amounts of $$$ to people for storage upgrades

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 12:26 PM

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Was it done purely so people cant put a custom nvme there they didn't buy for 9999999 dollars?

vestal sapphire Aug 22, 2025, 12:26 PM

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the only other explanation I can come up with is saving on PCIe lanes

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sooooo

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sounds like the beancounters had a little too much sway there

dense umbra Aug 22, 2025, 12:27 PM

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native prairie Was it done purely so people cant put a custom nvme there they didn't buy for 99...

100%

vestal sapphire Aug 22, 2025, 12:28 PM

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native prairie Was it done purely so people cant put a custom nvme there they didn't buy for 99...

and I mean there are upgradable SSDs around, it's just not super trivial to install

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esp given that you need a second mac meme

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 12:31 PM

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i wonder how dumb the pcie controller is in the m1

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 1:06 PM

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it’s ECAM compatible apparently

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idk if that means much or if a controller can be not ECAM compatible but it seems pretty doable :^)

native prairie Aug 22, 2025, 1:08 PM

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nocturne tide idk if that means much or if a controller can be *not* ECAM compatible but it se...

Well RPI controllers only support one device reg view so not ecam compatible

#

There's a select reg or something

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 1:10 PM

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vestal sapphire but ig they can charge dumb amounts of $$$ to people for storage upgrades

That's probably the plan KEKW

#

Yeah, the are many controllers that are not ecam compatible

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Almost no arm pcie controllers are ecam compatible

#

Just to get a feeling of how ecam and hence acpi compatible the arm world is: there are 401 device trees with pcie hosts in the linux source and 10 that support ecam KEKW

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~~I think ecam implies dma-coherent~~ ah, actually that's probably not true

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Does the dt of the m1 have dma-coherent on the pcie controller?

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 1:39 PM

#

pcie@690000000 {
    compatible = "apple,t8103-pcie", "apple,pcie";
    device_type = "pci";
    reg = <0x06 0x90000000 0x00 0x1000000 0x06 0x80000000 0x00 0x100000 0x06 0x81000000 0x00 0x4000 0x06 0x82000000 0x00 0x4000 0x06 0x83000000 0x00 0x4000>;
    reg-names = "config", "rc", "port0", "port1", "port2";
    interrupt-parent = <0x0f>;
    interrupts = <0x00 0x2b7 0x04 0x00 0x2ba 0x04 0x00 0x2bd 0x04>;
    msi-controller;
    msi-parent = <0xbd>;
    msi-ranges = <0x0f 0x00 0x2c0 0x01 0x20>;
    iommu-map = <0x100 0xbe 0x01 0x01 0x200 0xbf 0x01 0x01 0x300 0xc0 0x01 0x01>;
    iommu-map-mask = <0xff00>;
    bus-range = <0x00 0x03>;
    #address-cells = <0x03>;
    #size-cells = <0x02>;
    ranges = <0x43000000 0x06 0xa0000000 0x06 0xa0000000 0x00 0x20000000 0x2000000 0x00 0xc0000000 0x06 0xc0000000 0x00 0x40000000>;
    power-domains = <0xbc>;
    pinctrl-0 = <0xc1>;
    pinctrl-names = "default";
    phandle = <0xbd>;

#

i cut off the rest as it contains some hardcoded pci devices

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 1:44 PM

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Ah

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I think it's not a big deal whether it's dma coherent or not since we need to insert cache flushes into the drivers anyway to support the pi etc

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But still a bit surprising that it's not coherent

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 1:45 PM

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i think that with a simple-framebuffer, once we write an applespi driver, xhci and nvme we can get to weston :^)

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 1:45 PM

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carmine current But still a bit surprising that it's not coherent

As the more powerful machines have a higher chance of having coherent dma

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 1:45 PM

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nvme is optional since we can boot off usb

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keyboard is done over spi and touchpad is usb

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 1:46 PM

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Ah

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Is the xhci attached directly to the system bus or to pcie?

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 1:47 PM

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it's separate

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or, well, attached directly to the system bus :^)

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 1:55 PM

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carmine current As the more powerful machines have a higher chance of having coherent dma

the dt spec says that dma-coherent can be implied and that then only dma-incoherent is valid (and vice versa)

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but idk how the default is determined

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 1:59 PM

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nocturne tide it’s ECAM compatible apparently

does it still need custom init?

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 2:00 PM

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yeah but it doesn't look so bad

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for each root port you enable the clock, you reset the root port, 100ms and set up the irqs

upbeat smelt Aug 22, 2025, 2:06 PM

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makes sense

serene portal Aug 22, 2025, 2:55 PM

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vestal sapphire but ig they can charge dumb amounts of $$$ to people for storage upgrades

meme which you can't even do

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 3:07 PM

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i think what he meant is that if you want more storage you pay way more than you should for the hardware lol

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 3:17 PM

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Just attach an nvme enclosure over thunderbolt galaxybrain

nocturne tide Aug 22, 2025, 3:20 PM

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yeah sure, just write me a thunderbolt driver meme

carmine current Aug 22, 2025, 4:24 PM

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I have no idea how thunderbolt controllers work

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Is the spec even open?

vestal sapphire Aug 22, 2025, 4:36 PM

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I don't even want to think about how tb works meme

fresh hornet Aug 23, 2025, 9:54 AM

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Don't you know, would this work. Namely, in uboot's cli, you set bootargs, using setenv bootargs 'blablabla'. The question is would the blablabla reported to the UEFI loader via EFI_LOADED_PROTOCOL's LoadOptions field? uboot's documentation implies it would. Didn't you try to pass parameters for the loader this way? Unfortunately neither fatload nor load not bootefi can pass anything useful in this spirit. Can't check by myself and asking people to do it for my case would be too bold - they would need to figure partition GUID or MBR Signature and offset, then type all that. 😁 but maybe managarm makes use this way for the uboot case. I use it as an alternative way of passing the Boot Volume Descriptor. Works via UEFI shell, not tested on uboot commands.

vestal sapphire Aug 23, 2025, 12:23 PM

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The LoadOptions field is defined to be binary data (no joke), so ig that could work

#

For U-Boot tho you can probably also just pass args via dtb

nocturne tide Aug 23, 2025, 1:10 PM

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that's basically what you're supposed to do

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the standard is a /chosen/bootargs node in the dtb

fresh hornet Aug 23, 2025, 2:20 PM

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vestal sapphire The LoadOptions field is defined to be binary data (no joke), so ig that could w...

Yes, when booting from the BootN variable, that field points to the OptionalData part of the load option variable and it can be anything you need (and I use this). When loaded via the UEFI shell, that fields get the command line (as per the EFI Shell specification). I just wanted to know if someone experimented with uboot this way. Well, how it's written in the uboot documentation, looks like it would pass the contents of bootargs.

fresh hornet Aug 23, 2025, 2:21 PM

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nocturne tide the standard is a /chosen/bootargs node in the dtb

With no dt involved. It's about uboot integration with the UEFI standard.

nocturne tide Aug 23, 2025, 2:22 PM

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idk, uboot uefi is a meme anyway

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why would you want uboot to pass bootargs to uefi

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that also requires bootloader support

#

just pass them yourself if you load a bootloader anyway

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and if you boot linux directly with efistub the bootargs are baked into the executable anyway iirc

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i think uboot can pass args if you do booti/bootm

carmine current Aug 23, 2025, 2:41 PM

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fresh hornet With no dt involved. It's about uboot integration with the UEFI standard.

you still need a dtb with uefi

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how else do you want to discover devices on the system bus?

carmine current Aug 23, 2025, 3:19 PM

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UEFI supports DTBs

fresh hornet Aug 23, 2025, 4:45 PM

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carmine current you still need a dtb with uefi

Currently yes. In future, hopefully, no. But it doesn't matter, since messing with dt still would be left to the kernel. The loader should be free of this. My loader looks into LIP->LoadOptions and if it's not NULL, inspects the contents. If it's Boot Volume Descriptor, defined by the boot protocol, it means we are getting loaded via our BootN variable - the installed, main scenario. We get needed info from that descriptor (partition, system root directory, file system type). Alternatively, if the BootN got deleted, but the installation is valid, the user can pass the text form of the BVD. As I said, with firmwares, implementing EFI Shell and its protocols, you can pass the text form of BVD during the loader start in the CLI. Or, via implementation's Boot Manager if the latter allows one to create a boot option manually including with allowing to set Optional Data as text. For uboot it was unclear. Now I see it allows via the mentioned setenv bootargs, just need to ensure. As of why not from dt. Even if I have to use it, that would happen in the kernel, the aforementioned logic is in the beginning of the loader. The latter is purely UEFI OS loader. Its code is almost 100% architecture agnostic, no way to screw it up by such an abomination as dt.

vestal sapphire Aug 28, 2025, 9:20 PM

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update on the rust situation

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https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/123319

GitHub

Add managarm as a tier 3 target by no92 · Pull Request #123319 · ...

This PR aims to introduce the x86_64-unknown-managarm-mlibc as a tier 3 target to Rust.
managarm is a microkernel with fully asynchronous I/O that also provides a POSIX server. Despite the differen...

lament grove Aug 28, 2025, 9:27 PM

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Damn

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That's so cool

vestal sapphire Aug 28, 2025, 9:28 PM

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I can't wait to upstream managarm support to all the crates

trim eagle Aug 29, 2025, 12:53 AM

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You and me both

carmine current Aug 30, 2025, 9:22 AM

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Managarm rust target is in the current bors rollup

vestal sapphire Aug 30, 2025, 9:37 AM

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I saw that live as it happened

vestal sapphire Aug 30, 2025, 11:07 AM

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We need

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Shit auto correct

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We merged

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We'll be in stable on Oct 30th

trim eagle Aug 30, 2025, 11:12 AM

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Based

carmine current Aug 30, 2025, 11:12 AM

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Nice

vestal sapphire Aug 30, 2025, 12:06 PM

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And the next nightly ofc

carmine current Aug 31, 2025, 6:46 PM

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Managarm is now in upstream Rust nightly

nocturne tide Sep 1, 2025, 2:06 AM

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$ rustc +nightly --print target-list | grep managarm
aarch64-unknown-managarm-mlibc
riscv64gc-unknown-managarm-mlibc
x86_64-unknown-managarm-mlibc```
:^)

nocturne tide Sep 8, 2025, 11:14 AM

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sorry for shitty crop i cant take a photo without my face in the reflection lol, but here’s managarm booted into systemd on an m1 macbook air :^) i wrote an aic (apple interrupt controller), sart (sort of an iommu but for dma filtering), rtkit (apple coprocessor driver, used by the ans2 nvme) and of course an ans2 nvme driver, still got some bugs to iron out + i need to write an spi driver so i can get keyboard + touchpad and boot into weston!

dense umbra Sep 8, 2025, 11:19 AM

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Holy shit damn

fierce mist Sep 8, 2025, 11:24 AM

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Is there any documentation on these apple specific chips/devices?

carmine current Sep 8, 2025, 11:32 AM

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fierce mist Is there any documentation on these apple specific chips/devices?

of course not :^) (other than projects that have reverse engineered it)

nocturne tide Sep 8, 2025, 11:34 AM

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one of these projects being https://github.com/AsahiLinux/m1n1

magic marsh Sep 9, 2025, 6:58 PM

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nocturne tide sorry for shitty crop i cant take a photo without my face in the reflection lol,...

holy shit

#

absolutely crazy

carmine current Sep 11, 2025, 8:12 PM

#

Progress: Managarm can now boot into its kernel on Radxa Orion O6 which is an ARM SystemReady board with UEFI + ACPI

#

However, we don't have proper ACPI support on aarch64 yet, so that will be the next step

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And also, we can do this over HTTP boot (another new feature)

native prairie Sep 11, 2025, 8:23 PM

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Cool

civic vortex Sep 12, 2025, 8:02 AM

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carmine current Progress: Managarm can now boot into its kernel on Radxa Orion O6 which is an AR...

thats a 500$ arm board 😭

carmine current Sep 12, 2025, 8:05 AM

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it's probably a bit less than $500

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but yeah it's not cheap

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it's quite capable though

civic vortex Sep 12, 2025, 8:05 AM

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carmine current it's quite capable though

yeah, 12 cores for an arm board thats like 3 raspberry pis

trim eagle Sep 25, 2025, 7:04 AM

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WebKit revival in progress

carmine current Sep 25, 2025, 7:04 AM

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nice

dusk solstice Sep 26, 2025, 6:22 AM

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are there any plans for a new post on the managarm website?

carmine current Sep 26, 2025, 6:43 AM

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yeah we have some content to share

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progress on that is slow though, seems that none of us are eager blog post writers lol

dusk solstice Sep 29, 2025, 12:14 AM

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nocturne tide sorry for shitty crop i cant take a photo without my face in the reflection lol,...

oh I just noticed this, holy shit managism is getting more and more impressive by the day

carmine current Oct 6, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

some progress by @vestal sapphire : we can compile + run sortix's os-test testsuite on Managarm and we get more passing tests than Minix and Redox

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this is a testsuite that tests posix compliance

vestal sapphire Oct 6, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

dusk solstice Oct 7, 2025, 8:13 AM

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5% more and freebsd will be behind 😔

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on the overall score

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 9:00 AM

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getting UDP tests to work would get us another 1.5%+ of conformance

dusk solstice Oct 7, 2025, 9:07 AM

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would pty be stuff like ansi support or smth?

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 9:12 AM

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https://sortix.org/os-test/pty/#pty
it tests things like tcsetattr

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@vestal sapphire it'd be nice to generate the report for Managarm on CI

#

i wonder if we have any good way to do that

#

we should probably expand virtual boot

#

maybe have a python script running on the Managarm side that sends the output base64 encoded over serial

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 10:49 AM

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I think improving virtual boot is something i might do next

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 11:56 AM

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os of the future

vestal sapphire Oct 7, 2025, 11:56 AM

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don't worry

trim eagle Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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serene portal os of the future

Lol

vestal sapphire Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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you don't need pty support or ppoll if it's blazing fast 🚀🚀🚀

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1311504831243882618.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=ferrisExplode

trim eagle Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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Balzing fast lmao

vestal sapphire Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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let a man typo

trim eagle Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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Funny typo

vestal sapphire Oct 7, 2025, 11:57 AM

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now run os-test on menix trl

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 11:58 AM

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💀 i would need waitpid for that

trim eagle Oct 7, 2025, 11:59 AM

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serene portal 💀 i would need waitpid for that

Skill issue

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 11:59 AM

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yeah

dense umbra Oct 7, 2025, 12:03 PM

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serene portal os of the future

flex on redox by building their kernel in managarm

vestal sapphire Oct 7, 2025, 12:03 PM

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soon

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 12:03 PM

#

soon

#

menix on managarm

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 12:09 PM

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No need to shit on redox, they also have a few cool things that we don't have

lament grove Oct 7, 2025, 12:11 PM

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Would be pretty funny if Managarm eventually surpassed Linux in these tests

dense umbra Oct 7, 2025, 12:13 PM

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get managarm certified meme

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managarm unix™

upbeat smelt Oct 7, 2025, 12:14 PM

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just pay a shit ton of money to be granted exceptions for failing tests :^)

dusk solstice Oct 7, 2025, 12:22 PM

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functionality doesn't matter if it's memory safe 😔

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 12:32 PM

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carmine current No need to shit on redox, they also have a few cool things that we don't have

rust support with libc KEKW

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 12:39 PM

#

We also have that

#

Or do you mean in upstream rust?

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 1:10 PM

#

upstream

carmine current Oct 7, 2025, 1:37 PM

#

that's true but it doesn't really give a huge benefit unless you're building rust programs outside of xbstrap

trim eagle Oct 7, 2025, 1:50 PM

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serene portal rust support with libc <:KEKW:913708372329644042>

And where’s your rust target in upstream?

#

Oh wait

dense umbra Oct 7, 2025, 1:54 PM

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Simply dont have a rust target and use a better language smh

serene portal Oct 7, 2025, 2:23 PM

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C3

wind hamlet Oct 8, 2025, 8:25 AM

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nocturne tide you need an rtkit driver for the nvme to work, rtkit is some sort of operating s...

rtkit is also used on embedded devices

#

and the interrupt controller is dumb because it comes from the iPhone

#

i think it's originally a samsung design? probably got revamped a lot but it should be related to the A1 (first iPhone's SoC) which is a samsung design

carmine current Oct 8, 2025, 8:35 AM

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the apple interrupt controller is actually quite nice

#

except that for some reason they decided to route the timer interrupt to FIQ

carmine current Oct 11, 2025, 2:41 PM

#

some progress from my side: I improved the CI such that we now

test whether all boot protocols work on x86 (uefi, limine, mb2), both on bios (where applicable) and on uefi
run posix-tests and kernel-tests on each github actions run
these test run after booting with systemd to check that both kernel + userspace work

lament grove Oct 17, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

Help, Marvin and I have been nerdsniped by microkernels KEKW

trim eagle Oct 17, 2025, 11:09 PM

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Skill issue keke

lament grove Oct 17, 2025, 11:09 PM

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nooo

#

But yeah I want to learn about them. Probably not this instant because of the time of day, but still.

carmine current Oct 29, 2025, 3:08 PM

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source lines of code is a useless metric, but mlibc has surpassed musl in SLOC

trim eagle Oct 29, 2025, 4:51 PM

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Image viewer based on the GNOME stack. Now with SVG support (GTK SVG support is nasty stuff, Qt does this a lot nicer)

native prairie Oct 29, 2025, 4:54 PM

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trim eagle Image viewer based on the GNOME stack. Now with SVG support (GTK SVG support is ...

Damn I can taste the DE already

trim eagle Oct 29, 2025, 4:56 PM

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One day

dense umbra Oct 29, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Gnomagarm

carmine current Oct 29, 2025, 5:06 PM

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we also have a bunch of KDE stuff though lol

#Managarm and related projects