How would a controller with two joysticks work? Does it differentiate?
#Astral
robust geyser
probably two different devices
or maybe there's something you can do that i don't know of
fleet osprey
nah it's the same evdev device, I've messsed with this
I don't recall how they differ in the reporting
but as in you open the same /dev/input/eventX to get events for everything relating to that logical device
all joysticks, buttons, analog triggers, etc
grand shadow
And how does it distinguish between joysticks?
fleet osprey
damn yall gonna make me actually check
hang on š„
Testing ... (interrupt to exit)
Event: time 1772632522.737772, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 3 (ABS_RX), value 167
Event: time 1772632522.737772, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632522.749928, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 3 (ABS_RX), value 237
Event: time 1772632522.749928, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632523.038773, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 3 (ABS_RX), value 213
Event: time 1772632523.038773, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632523.050368, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 3 (ABS_RX), value 128
Event: time 1772632523.050368, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.506777, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 133
Event: time 1772632524.506777, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.518359, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 231
Event: time 1772632524.518359, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.539778, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 232
Event: time 1772632524.539778, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.551720, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 233
Event: time 1772632524.551720, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.561811, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 234
Event: time 1772632524.561811, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.572847, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 235
Event: time 1772632524.572847, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.806778, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 137
Event: time 1772632524.806778, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.818787, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 132
Event: time 1772632524.818787, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.829844, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 131
Event: time 1772632524.829844, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
Event: time 1772632524.851990, type 3 (EV_ABS), code 0 (ABS_X), value 130
Event: time 1772632524.851990, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------
^C
moving right joystick vs moving left joystick
looks like the code changes
robust geyser
so yeah, ABS_X vs ABS_RX
fleet osprey
np
obsidian pivot
guys when operating systems become legally required to do age verification we are all moving to astral right
or mammagarm
viscid flame
or mammagarm
managarm
pure thunder
managram
grand shadow
guys when operating systems become legally required to do age verification we ar...
Send me ur id rn
obsidian pivot
sure
this would be funnier if I sent your id
but I dont have it
can u send it for funnies so I can send it in response to that
ill delete these messages
proper meteor
mammography
obsidian pivot
mammogram
grand shadow
can u send it for funnies so I can send it in response to that
Here bro
mild sentinel
Send me ur id rn
I donāt even have an ID yet š
mild sentinel
Iām 17
Wait wait let me get my id
I think I can get one
I havenāt been able to update my legal documented yet
grand shadow
scenic epoch
mammogram? <a:kekeke:959959620430995557>
mammogarm
its mammogarm not mammogram
Managerms 
bronze nexus
manganarm
mild sentinel
manganarm
Should I pull out the āpissagarmā thing I made a few weeks ago 
(The logo tinted yellow)
bronze nexus
lmao what
mild sentinel
Wait let me see if I can find it
obsidian pivot
mild sentinel
Lmfao
grand shadow
Apparently Im gonna have to implement age verification in astral by the 17th because of a brazilian law
ā ļø
And you cant self declare you have to send me an id according to the law
š š
bronze nexus
Just don't support Brazil
grand shadow
I have no idea how they even expect this to wprk
Do I have to send my id every time I spin a vm?
Iirc they want verification to happen every time the device is started
mild sentinel
And you cant self declare you have to send me an id according to the law
Just have an automated AI system do it. and then have it allow the mc lovin image
If anyone asks just say the AI messed up
mild sentinel
Iirc they want verification to happen every time the device is *started*
Then also have it save the ID on disk images and send the mc login image etc etc
grand shadow
By their definition of operating system uefi is an operating system
Will firmware start asking for id?
A router firmware would be an operating system
Will I have to give my id when I buy a router?
When I power on the router?
mild sentinel
By their definition of operating system uefi is an operating system
This shit is so bad
Is it even enforceable tbh
Like esp to hobby systems
fleet osprey
yall really expected legislators to be competent at understanding technology? 
grand shadow
This law is just straight up unenforceable
fleet osprey
they see "operating system" as Windows, iOS, and maybe macOS
mild sentinel
Nothing should need an ID unless itās in person and they need to verify my age and itās just the other person there checking it
fleet osprey
Linux is "that guy is hacking throw him in jail", and hobby OSes don't exist
mild sentinel
No automated systems should be grabbing this crap especially random companies not related to governance agencies
prime mulch
Apparently Im gonna have to implement age verification in astral by the 17th bec...
nothing makes me feel like theres an illuminati more than like
50 different jurisdictions across the planet
simultaneously introducing "operating systems must enforce age verification" laws
grand shadow
my conspiracy theory is that microsoft and apple are behind this somehow to try to curb open operating systems
fleet osprey
Microsoft has embraced Linux (using it for some infra), they've extended it (WSL), now they're extinguishing it
mild sentinel
my conspiracy theory is that microsoft and apple are behind this somehow to try ...
Them doing this to kill *nix so they can unveil windows 12 and have nothing to stop them
opal lotus
simultaneously introducing "operating systems must enforce age verification" law...
gavin newscum
mild sentinel
50 different jurisdictions across the planet
The fuck how many
neon crane
The fuck how many
various US states, the UK, Australia, France, Spain, and more are all on record for trying to introduce age verification for something
neon crane
my conspiracy theory is that microsoft and apple are behind this somehow to try ...
my conspiracy theory is that age verification companies are introducing laws to sell more age verification services
fierce forge
Apparently Im gonna have to implement age verification in astral by the 17th bec...
Wait, is this for real? I thought it was a joke
fierce forge
my conspiracy theory is that age verification companies are introducing laws to ...
An easy explanation is lobby
neon crane
that's exactly what i was saying lol
spare sky
It has been in the works for years
Just that nobody wants to be first
Now that it's become a trend, everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon
To implement the new hip policy and show how well-prepared they are for the internet age
fierce forge
but it's weird, considering that stuff like gdpr was passed 10 years ago, and now it feels like they're reversing the course and everyone is just basically doing mass surveillance
prime geyser
By their definition of operating system uefi is an operating system
The point is as usual to make the regulations so vague that should they decide they want to charge some undesirable entity with some crime, they will find a crime to charge them with
upper dragon
Iirc they want verification to happen every time the device is *started*
Yes just donāt support brazil at this point
grand shadow
Yes just donāt support brazil at this point
Issue: I am brazilian š
upper dragon
Ouch! Sad times when you'll have to give your id to your ps5, your printer, your router, your washing machine, etc. at each startup
proper meteor
50 different jurisdictions across the planet
No need for conspiracy, it's just a kind of Brussels effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
proper meteor
Issue: I am brazilian š
Silk issue
proper meteor
Apparently Im gonna have to implement age verification in astral by the 17th bec...
Alright, no Maestro for brazil nor california 
hearty fulcrum
how long until someone goes to those lawmakers and tells them that that's not how operating systems work
neon crane
how long until someone goes to those lawmakers and tells them that that's not ho...
I'm willing to bet they're untouchable
hearty fulcrum
until they aren't
neon crane
by that time it'll be too late
fierce forge
Alright, no Maestro for brazil nor california <:flesh:766693084427059293>
Don't open source licenses have that baked in?
Like that the author is not responsible for the software
proper meteor
Don't open source licenses have that baked in?
Like that the author is not respo...
huh probably
but like, maybe I'll add a "Not for use in Brazil nor California" or something
fierce forge
but like, maybe I'll add a "Not for use in Brazil nor California" or something
That's what one of the articles said foss projects would probably do
Because how are you enforcing that on non-corporations backed Linux distros
carmine swallow
I wouldn't put any extra notices tbh given that its obviously a law that you shouldn't follow
fleet grove
Don't open source licenses have that baked in?
Like that the author is not respo...
yes actually
nearly every open-source license notes how there is no warrenty to the software and that all authors of the software hold no liability for any damage that the software causes
here's the MIT License's version of that text:
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
SOFTWARE.
marsh sparrow
such clauses only protect against civil lawsuits though
you can't just put instruction on how to build a chemical weapon onto a github repo and then say: no liability btw
I think the more interesting question in this regard is: what is an operation system and which operating systems are affected?
ig one would have to look into the exact wording of the law
marsh sparrow
you can't just put instruction on how to build a chemical weapon onto a github r...
likewise, you can't just make an illegal gambling site and say: only for ppl who promise that they're allowed to use it
that's not gonna fly, you'll still be prosecuted for not taking the appropriate safety measures
grand shadow
VII ā sistema operacional: software de sistema que controla as funƧƵes bĆ”sicas de um hardware ou software e permite que aplicaƧƵes de internet, programas de computador, aplicativos ou outros softwares sejam executados por meio dele;
System software that controls the basic functions of hardware or software and allows for internet applications, computer programs, applications or other software to be executed using it
You could argue by this definition that firmware is an operating system and must implement age verification
mild sentinel
You could argue even CPU microcode to some extent
marsh sparrow
california words it like this:
This bill, beginning January 1, 2027, would require, among other things related to age verification with respect to software applications, an operating system provider, as defined, to provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder, as defined, to indicate the birth date, age, or both, of the user of that device for the purpose of providing a signal regarding the userās age bracket to applications available in a covered application store and to provide a developer, as defined, who has requested a signal with respect to a particular user with a digital signal via a reasonably consistent real-time application programming interface regarding whether a user is in any of several age brackets, as prescribed. The bill would require a developer to request a signal with respect to a particular user from an operating system provider or a covered application store when the application is downloaded and launched.
I'm not a lawyer but it seems that the intent here is to provide age verification for built in app stores
so you may be fine if you have none
It also talks specifically about "account setup"
so if you don't have any account setup, this probably doesn't apply to you
(e) (1) āCovered application storeā means a publicly available internet website, software application, online service, or platform that distributes and facilitates the download of applications from third-party developers to users of a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing that can access a covered application store or can download an application.
also:
(1) Provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder to indicate the birth date, age, or both, of the user of that device for the purpose of providing a signal regarding the userās age bracket to applications available in a covered application store.
it does not mandate verification of the user's input afaict
hearty fulcrum
It also talks specifically about "account setup"
is creating a local user considered "account setup"
marsh sparrow
(2) (A) A developer that receives a signal pursuant to this title shall be deemed to have actual knowledge of the age range of the user to whom that signal pertains across all platforms of the application and points of access of the application even if the developer willfully disregards the signal.
(B) A developer shall not willfully disregard internal clear and convincing information otherwise available to the developer that indicates that a userās age is different than the age bracket data indicated by a signal provided by an operating system provider or a covered application store.
^ so basically if the OS says: this user is 13 and steams sells it a 18+ game, Steam will be liable
that's the intention here afaict
marsh sparrow
is creating a local user considered "account setup"
neither "account" nor "account setup" are defined in the bill so it's up to interpretation 
hearty fulcrum
nice
marsh sparrow
also:
(a) (1) āAccount holderā means an individual who is at least 18 years of age or a parent or legal guardian of a user who is under 18 years of age in the state.
so for everybody below 18, their parent needs to fill in the age form
that's clearly very realistic and will never be bypassed in some way
marsh sparrow
It's certainly a trend in a bad direction
hearty fulcrum
indeed
scenic epoch
is creating a local user considered "account setup"
itll probably be a good idea to put user creation behind a bunch of commands so theres no consistent "account creation screen"
fleet grove
i miss it when i could use my computer and feel like i had control over the software
scenic epoch
i miss it when i could use my computer and feel like i had control over the soft...
broski did someone take away your linux priveleges
fleet grove
broski did someone take away your linux priveleges <:meme:575445094589661215>
sort of? i run linux on my pc at home but i have to use windows for university so that's what my laptop runs
scenic epoch
sort of? i run linux on my pc at home but i have to use windows for university s...
oh
ok they did do that 
fleet grove
yeah x3
flint condor
I don't even have accounts
I am just not going to comply. I don't live in one of the affected places, I'm not in thier jurisdiction, and I have no business presence for my os for them to levy a fine against.
grand shadow
time to add ANOTHER gcc build to the world build
marsh sparrow
why?
grand shadow
hearty fulcrum
time to add ANOTHER gcc build to the world build
glibc?
grand shadow
nah
fleet osprey
bro's secretly been hiding some new architecture port of Astral this entire time and is planning to cross compile it from Astral x86_64
mild sentinel
bro's secretly been hiding some new architecture port of Astral this entire time...
Astral for the Nintendo Wii?
fleet osprey
would be super based 
opal lotus
wouldn't work with the current codebase
worthy mica
grand shadow
Dri was a mistake, gpu drivers shouldve been kept centralized on xorg-server
But nooo for egl you need dri because fuck you
Hoping that I dont have to TOUCH /dev/dri for software rendering
upper dragon
egl = epic games launcher? it works on unreal engine, so the requirement is probably for all unreal games I guess
(for everyone wandering why the egl feels so slow, that's because it uses unreal engine locked to 30fps, hence why animations seems laggy)
wild marsh
what
viscid flame
egl = epic games launcher? it works on unreal engine, so the requirement is prob...
egl is opengl thing not epic games launcher š
upper dragon
oh ok, sorry for being dumb 
deft oak
But nooo for egl you need dri because fuck you
uh what
im pretty sure i had egl without dri
btw i had to implement mincore for egl to work
grand shadow
It forced me to switch between xlib to dri to enable it
And now In trying to just get hw accel to work since its not working
Nor hw accel
š
Just sw opengl
opal lotus
evil hacks were needed for me to avoid a /dev/dri
why
grand shadow
but trolling shall resume
opal lotus
what did you do
gritty shore
starts foaming at the mouth
do you have SDL?
grand shadow
why
I forced dri2 to use mesa surfaceless and forced it to initialize configs because surfaceless doesn't return values it likes
grand shadow
do you have SDL?
yeah
gritty shore
can you port something i made real quick i wanna see how good performance is
mhm it may be annoying tho as the build system uses meson
grand shadow
I have meson ported
gritty shore
ok try this
I wanna see how the gears demo runs specifically
it should be easily portable, you can probably build it from within astral itself
grand shadow
trolled
robust geyser
lmfao
gritty shore
do you not have it
gritty shore
huh
idk works on my machine ā¢
this is the non portable part though (the sdl setup)
robust geyser
yeah i wonder why
sharp carbon
missing feature test macros perhaps?
robust geyser
gettimeofday is depredated btw
sharp carbon
mlibc is more strict with that than glibc
gritty shore
ah maybe
gritty shore
gettimeofday is depredated btw
what should I use instead? Also this is a test harness
robust geyser
clock_gettime
gritty shore
the actual code is extremely portable
robust geyser
APPLICATION USAGE
Applications should use the clock_gettime() function instead of the obsolescent gettimeofday() function.
gritty shore
you only need floats
grand shadow
robust geyser
makes sense, it got deprecated in posix-2024
the function is entirely gone from the spec
gritty shore
bruh
actually i think i know why I use it
i based myself off the actual gears code
which uses it
grand shadow
which upstream
astral
grand shadow
are you implementing drm now
no
opal lotus
why not
grand shadow
I went through probably more effort to not do drm at all than to just implement something like vgem but I digress ā ļø
opal lotus
you dont need gem š
grand shadow
Trolling
deft oak
i love trolling
opal lotus
inb4 oom
robust geyser
those whose noes
opal lotus
wait does it just work without issues?
opal lotus
cc @prime juniper
grand shadow
inb4 this is an mlibc quirk
those who know
opal lotus
remember the SDL meme
deft oak
those who dont know
viscid flame
opal lotus
i had to comment out something in stk to free SDL resources
if you don't comment it out it deadlocks
gritty shore
astral now has libdrm upstream
so did my thing work or not :(
grand shadow
so did my thing work or not :(
it didn't even compile
grand shadow
that and probably other stuff
hearty fulcrum
"s/gettimeofday/clock_gettime"
opal lotus
@grand shadow lib/irrlicht/source/Irrlicht/CIrrDeviceSDL.cpp
comment out this line
i need to do some debugging on why it deadlocks
grand shadow
I don't have the source bro
grand shadow
opal lotus
are you deadass
robust geyser
surely mathew wouldn't do a 180 like that
analog berry
are you deadass
Your kernel will soon be the only non Linux compatible one 
opal lotus
Your kernel will soon be the only non Linux compatible one <:KEKW:91370837232964...
not if i rewrite it again
(considering)
deft oak
freebsd binary compat 
robust geyser
i still need to write my kernel
analog berry
opal lotus
sharp carbon
not if i rewrite it again
i realize this is very hypocritical but just pick a design and stick with it
opal lotus
yeah
sharp carbon
a rewrite is pretty much the least productive thing you can do
robust geyser
or so we're being told...
opal lotus
im probably going to not do a microkernel
im being skill issued and i'm not having fun
analog berry
Marvin after realizing you only need 15k loc for kde
opal lotus
yeah frrrrr
analog berry
If you do a mono kernel
opal lotus
lol
hearty fulcrum
i still need to write my kernel
wanna do evdev first?
some practice before doing it in your kernel
opal lotus
well it's not like zinnia has any posix yet š
so it's not even a rewrite, just adding posix code to the kernel instead š
analog berry
@grand shadow so how are u doing it without source if not Linux compat
opal lotus
inb4 someone gave bro a build farm
analog berry
Inb4 astral becomes an LFS project
prime juniper
Your kernel will soon be the only non Linux compatible one <:KEKW:91370837232964...
I donāt like the shift to binary compat Iām seeing ngl
prime juniper
Marvin after realizing you only need 15k loc for kde
Cringe
grand shadow
<@215823874615541761> so how are u doing it without source if not Linux compat
it was revealed to me in a dream
grand shadow
(I got wine to finally work with opengl etc)
obsidian pivot
based
grand shadow
the performance is not that bad honestly
deft oak
awesome
fleet grove
the performance is not that bad honestly
hell yeahhh
grand shadow
@prime juniper I have pushed working wine to astral repos if u want to try it on managarm later
grand shadow
Did it require any mlibc fixes?
Not really
Only needed to update wine, enable mingw and opengl, and do some astral related stuff to mesa
Might write a blog poest about this
prime juniper
Noted. Thanks!
marsh sparrow
Very nice
It's indeed weird that both astral and Managarm run into STK hangs
Fwiw marvin patched out an sdl function to make it work
So digging into that function with printf debugging might help to find the hang
It's probably not that difficult since we already know which function hangs
grand shadow
The stk thing was on wine so might not be the same issue
marsh sparrow
ah
grand shadow
I still have some more wine work to do
I want to run cogmind
But thats a 32 bit binary
marsh sparrow
iirc you need to implement the LDT for 32 bit windows
grand shadow
I think I already know how I am going to implement the ldt stuff I just need to look at the wine source and see wtf to do
marsh sparrow
is there anything beyond the ldt that is needed?
ah, so the new compiler was for 32 bit mlibc?
:^)
grand shadow
it was originally going to be for mingw which is needed for full wine but then I realized I could just take it from the debian repos
I don't think you need 32 bit mlibc for 32 bit wine, I think it does some crazy ldt shit
marsh sparrow
don't you need 32 bit libs on linux to run 32 bit windows games?
grand shadow
not anymore I think
iirc they were working on some wow64 stuff to not need that anymore
New WoW64". which runs Wine as a 64-bit Linux application in a 64-bit prefix. 32-bit Windows applications are supported via thunking to 64-bit Wine code. This is most similar to WoW64 on Windows.
yup
so I think I just need the ldt hooks and to let it do its magic
analog berry
damn u even fixed the memory counters
grand shadow
yeah it takes it from sysinfo() now
still no procfs
astral uses a pretty tiny amount of memory
I remember testing linux with dwm on my old desktop and it taking liek what, 300 mb
fvwm is bigger than that
obsidian pivot
when minecraft legacy console edition port???
grand shadow
talk is cheapo
fleet osprey
also when Astral aarch64 port, I have machines to test it on
trust, very normal aarch64 machines with no quirks
mild sentinel
Oh math did you need me to do any more testing?
I am home now with the laptop that has the AHCI drive idgaf about etc
Sadly the laptop has no network card that would work
grand shadow
do u not have lspci there
what are those realtek cards
oh I see
8136
yeah that aint happening
š
mild sentinel
do u not have lspci there
Install is fucked so it canāt mount root fs
mild sentinel
Mom can we have lspci?
No we have lspci at home.
Lspci at home;
I may have yanked out the ram while using it when it was open š
fleet osprey
mild sentinel
<:skullsob:1379654187209588779>
I wanted to recreate a video 
It did not work well
Sadly
grand shadow
girl when the machine uprising happens I don't want to be u
mild sentinel
Hey I also did a deep surgery on this just to replace the CMOS battery
I could of thrown it out
If it still works it deserves a life
Not like I do it daily lol
gritty shore
also when Astral aarch64 port, I have machines to test it on <:trl:8293166411918...
damn those are nice specs
bronze nexus
don't those go up to like 15k even
fleet osprey
$800 actually
gritty shore
Astral could probably run glxgears at 700FPS software rendering <:trl:8293166411...
i wonder why astral is so slow on software rendering
huh what
bronze nexus
$800 actually
lmao who thought it was broken
bronze nexus
brand new in box on ebay
you bought a stolen laptop probably
fleet osprey
but I got it
bronze nexus
TS probably porch pirate'd
fleet osprey
the seller looked legit
I've had it for several months and nobody's showed up at more door so 
bronze nexus
$800 is far to good to be true for this not to be stolen
fleet osprey
even came with AppleCare for Enterprise until 2027
gritty shore
yeah probably stolen or you got extremely lucky
bronze nexus
I've had it for several months and nobody's showed up at more door so <:troll_sh...
Like I said if it was a stolen package it wouldn't be set up so you'd not get it locked down or tracked
fleet osprey
even came with AppleCare for Enterprise until 2027
grand shadow
ok finally got wine to build with wow64 and it hits the "no ldt support on this platform" print
robust geyser
because it needs to set up a descriptor for the fs segment
sharp carbon
Does Wine need an LDT? lol why
Well WOW64 needs a 32 bit code segment
robust geyser
that is also true
neon crane
when minecraft legacy console edition port???
port NBCraft instead
it's more legal
it's my reverse engineered and enhanced "MCPE"
hardy vine
tbh the final goal of my kernel is basically beable to run hi3rd
then i can finally call it elysiaos
grand shadow
@robust geyser once I get 32 bit wine working I will git clone your fork and we will work on ts together to get this done already
I really want to have astral running o nthat machine already
robust geyser
real
grand shadow
damn I thought I wouldn't have to mess with any descriptor tables after finishing the astral idt/gdt stuff but here I am
anyways I think I have a general idea of how I am going to do it?
neon crane
Surely you can
grand shadow
per process ldt, initially unallocated -> allocate ldt on first arch_ctl(SET_LDT_ENTRY) call -> validate ldt bits to see if the user process is not trying to do anything spooky -> load ldt -> ipi other cpus running same process to load it too and reload segment registers if nescessary
neon crane
Like why do you need to mess with fking LDTs
grand shadow
but its a nescessity for 32 bit windows apps
unless you have a 32 bit userspace which then go wild
I do not want to do multilib in astral soooo
grand shadow
Like why do you need to mess with fking LDTs
compatibility mode
neon crane
cant you just load 32-bit cs/ds/es/fs/gs/ss and be done
to run 32 bit code in 64 bit long mode
grand shadow
its cleaner this way and everyone else does it with an ldt so there is probably some other reason
neon crane
who is this "everyone else"
grand shadow
linux/x86 macos?
neon crane
again
cant you just use 32 bit segment registers and run 32 bit code
why do you need an LDT
i thought we basically left those behind when moving to 32- and later 64-bit
grand shadow
there must be some other reason for it, plus wine seems to expect an ldt when doing wow64 stuff anyways
it explicitly complains if you don't implement ldt stuff
hearty fulcrum
š
grand shadow
sooo I probably want to do that for completeness sake
I don't think anyone is gonna run yeti ski free on astral but worth
carmine swallow
I wonder how does running 16-bit stuff even work
mild sentinel
I don't think anyone is gonna run yeti ski free on astral but worth
If I can not run yeti ski free on astral I will riot
mild sentinel
I wonder how does running 16-bit stuff even work
Isnāt 16bit code really similar to 32bit code for the most part? Thatās also why x86s was stupid because it cut out 16bit code by just removing some extra prefixes etc for no reason
sharp carbon
I wonder how does running 16-bit stuff even work
it just has different address/operand size defaults
flint condor
16-bit windows applications
64 bit windows can't run 16 bit windows applications
were we only taking about 32 bit, x86?
scenic epoch
bsaed
flint condor
can it? windows 64 bit can't, I tried to run simtower a few years ago and just got an error that 16 bit programs are unsupported
grand shadow
can it? windows 64 bit can't, I tried to run simtower a few years ago and just ...
yeah
flint condor
in the end I used PCEm
carmine swallow
it just has different address/operand size defaults
yeah but isn't that enough of a difference that you can't run 16-bit code as 32-bit code?
sharp carbon
yeah but isn't that enough of a difference that you can't run 16-bit code as 32-...
correct
if you disasm 32-bit code in 16-bit mode, each use of a 32-bit register will instead be disassembled as a 16-bit one and vice versa
so safe to say it isn't compatible
but the default address/operand size is just a bit in the code segment descriptor
if you set the bit, it's 32 bit by default, otherwise it's 16 bit
carmine swallow
ah yeah, idk why I was thinking that you would only be able to use a 32-bit code segment in compatibility mode
in fact I have even done that myself when doing a direct switch from real mode to 64-bit
grand shadow
š«©
ts is annoying
I have to either make sure that the descriptors are still valid during a context switch
and to do that I either make the fs/gs load failable
and catch the gpf
or I never let userspace unset a descriptor
which also sounds stupid
thats a problem for tomorrow me
opal lotus
š®āšØ
grand shadow
I think I might just make it a separate asm "try_load function" that on failure will just zero the segment
marsh sparrow
I have to either make sure that the descriptors are still valid during a context...
wdym by "still valid"?
ah if a thread concurrently clears them?
grand shadow
ah if a thread concurrently clears them?
Yeah
marsh sparrow
Sounds pretty annoying tbh
What's even the expectation
Ig w/o kernel entries, it'd just keep the hidden portion of the selector
But the kernel can't provide that level of transparency (?)
grand shadow
I have my fs/gs be null everytime in the kernel/64-bit userspace, so I really dont clear/set fs/gs during a context switch
That allows me to manually set that elsewhere, which makes life simpler
I guess if fs/gs = 0 then I set the fsbase/gsbase regs but if its nonzero I do a try-move
And fallback to 0
In case #gpf
marsh sparrow
Do fsbase/gsbase matter in compatibility mode?
grand shadow
Not really, mostly speaking about a context switch
In compatibility mode it takes those bases from the gdt/ldt entry
carmine swallow
actually yeah that makes sense as for why it needs the ldt, it needs to be able to set the fs base
fierce forge
In compatibility mode it takes those bases from the gdt/ldt entry
No?
I mean yes, but gsbase works the same
grand shadow
Started writing down on paper the api to the new page cache, really want to get this done
Wine takes a long time to create a wineroot from how abysmal my io performance is
I want to change that.
Plus support clustered pagein (page tables)
Because I take a lot of unescessary faults
grand shadow
Just remembered there is an hda driver + oss implementation that worksish deep in fork hell
willow rapids
per process ldt, initially unallocated -> allocate ldt on first arch_ctl(SET_LDT...
ldt š„
willow rapids
reversi
grand shadow
"windows 3.1 SMP" - me
scenic epoch
"windows 3.1 SMP" - me
windows 3.1 on limine x86-64
if someone decompiles NT 3.1 and makes it boot under limine then that would be funny
neon crane
if someone decompiles NT 3.1 and makes it boot under limine then that would be f...
you could probably just make an ELF to PE shim that pretends to be ntldr
scenic epoch
you could probably just make an ELF to PE shim that pretends to be ntldr
true
is it legal to decompile it
i doubt
but itll still be cool to do it
maybe make it run on x86-64
gritty shore
is it legal to decompile it
Yes
scenic epoch
o
gritty shore
I myself am working on a 3.1 decomp
scenic epoch
fair enough
grand shadow
I myself am working on a 3.1 decomp
microsoft summoning 3000 lawyers out of nowhere to financially ruin you with legal fees:
scenic epoch
microsoft summoning 3000 lawyers out of nowhere to financially ruin you with leg...
aint that nintendo
neon crane
is it legal to decompile it
in the EU and for interoperability? yes*
*i am not a lawyer
scenic epoch
in the EU and for interoperability? yes*
*i am not a lawyer
interoperability what
neon crane
interoperability what
between limine and windows nt
scenic epoch
between limine and windows nt
fair
gritty shore
in the EU and for interoperability? yes*
*i am not a lawyer
in the US reverse engineering is protected for learning purposes too afaik
fleet osprey
in the US reverse engineering is protected for learning purposes too afaik
also for interoperability
(I am also not a lawyer)
gritty shore
that's cool af
- I've been able to successfully patch the kernel executable so it runs my own code instead
The goal is a Ke decomp
neon crane
+ I've been able to successfully patch the kernel executable so it runs my own c...
You mean ntldr?
sage locust
NT 3.1 not 3.1*
lame
neon crane
lame
to be fair, 3.1 is majority assembly
there's not a high level language to decomp
gritty shore
You mean ntldr?
no
I have done both
It can run standalone loaded by ntldr or patch the real ntoskrnl with jumps to my code
grand shadow
I've gotta continue the ldt struggle
I think I have most of the code done I just have to hook up the segment loads
mild sentinel
LDT INIT... OK
gleaming bay
š„
fierce forge
How does ldt even work on compat mode?
neon crane
fork has apparently been leaking memory on oom this whole time
The irony
grand shadow
wine has a bunch of blocks of assembly code in its x86_64-signal code
š
annoying asf but what can you do
analog berry
is that bad?
grand shadow
and there are ifdefs in these blocks of inline assembly code for different platforms
analog berry
lol
grand shadow
is that bad?
its just annoying to have to read mostly uncommented and unformatted assembly but they probably had a good reason for it
analog berry
abi compat wins yet again
grand shadow
abi compat wins yet again <:trl:829316641191886888>
I don't care who torvalds sends I am not doing abi compat
analog berry
grand shadow
fleet osprey
https://github.com/wine-mirror/wine/blob/120891d01426a4f745da47a0d85ec5bd47c880a...
what unholy fuckery.....
surely there's no way that that's a hot enough path that this could be for performance reasons
grand shadow
Its probably for setting up machine state going into windows
neon crane
https://github.com/wine-mirror/wine/blob/120891d01426a4f745da47a0d85ec5bd47c880a...
what the fuck
why dont they just call a function which calls the syscall
thats dumb
mild sentinel
thats dumb
No but seriously š
What were they thinking
I am like atp genuinely curious
neon crane
Same
grand shadow
Sometime I need to work on more qol stuff like process statistics
mild sentinel
i may have found the perfect astral testing device & for osdev in general next time you need me to test
i could test things rn if needed
it has an RTL8169 nic
thats in its own IOMMU grouo
and PS/2 keyboard and mouse
so it should be able to run full astral?
grand shadow
Yooo
mild sentinel
It was only 250 bucks too from eBay
A thinkpad A485
Itās not too slow either
Itās an AMD 2500U
grand shadow
Thatd be cool, I dont think Ive tried on an amd cpu for a while
mild sentinel
My desktop is an AMD CPU
So it works fine iirc after you fixed the memory corruption
deft oak
why does it have an usb controller, 2 serial controllers and whatever ipmi is
mild sentinel
why does it have an usb controller, 2 serial controllers and whatever ipmi is
IMPI is remote management stuff
Itās a business laptop
And idk why it has EHCI š
The rest of the ports are XHCI
grand shadow
I really want to implement a squashfs + overlayfs combo for astral at some point
So much to do and so little time to do it
After I get 32 bit windows applications working I really should take a step back and work on my todo list and make things better
marsh sparrow
squashfs seems pretty pointless tbh
grand shadow
Well ideally it should be something I dont have to unpack into memory or traverse the whole file looking for piss.bin
robust geyser
hm i see
grand shadow
I do want to eventually do the livecd type of stuff so I cant just unpack an initrd forever into memory with 593738373 gb
mild sentinel
i was planning to unload the tar file into a tmpfs then reclaim it
grand shadow
i was planning to unload the tar file into a tmpfs then reclaim it
That is what I do already
mild sentinel
ahh 
grand shadow
Plus I do want to experiment at some point with letting someone control a smallish root of astral thru ssh or whatever and have it not have permanent data be usex
Used
hearty fulcrum
I do want to eventually do the livecd type of stuff so I cant just unpack an ini...
does astral have switch_root or similar
grand shadow
And a readonly fs + overlayfs over a tmpfs seems good enough
hearty fulcrum
no
grand shadow
Then no
viscid flame
What other format would you recommend?
ext2 in ram
spare sky
I have its cousin
viscid flame
ext2 in ram
i saw that ironclad did this (it loaded it as limine module)
mild sentinel
I have its cousin
ooooo nice
viscid flame
I have its cousin
what's this red button in center
mild sentinel
i saw that ironclad did this (it loaded it as limine module)
i planned to do this. then got told to do tmpfs
mild sentinel
what's this red button in center
mouse
spare sky
what's this red button in center
trackpoint
analog berry
lmao
grand shadow
š
Works on my machine
Unless they were using an ancient iso from 2022
Ask them what it was crashing on and what iso/commit/whatever and what vm etc
Inb4 bochs or smth
mild sentinel
They possibly were using an old one so I mentioned that lmao
I asked them for a discord too so we can talk better than YouTube comments
marsh sparrow
What other format would you recommend?
for what use case? I'd recommend a persistent fs, not a transient one
grand shadow
for what use case? I'd recommend a persistent fs, not a transient one <:meme:575...
Livecd/readonly image that the changes (and only the changes, readonly data is in disk) are only stored in memory
grand shadow
If they contact you, I would like to know what the bugs were
mild sentinel
do they still hate my account for when i would leave slughtly mean comments on shorts telling kids to not be on youtube at a young age and other various crao
that was yearsss ago
ended up having to put this :/
wild marsh
Tar seems bad to parse for huge filesystems
tar of xzs :^)
grand shadow
tar of xzs :^)
Tar.xz but every directory is just another tar.xz
mild sentinel
Tar.xz but every directory is just another tar.xz
viscid flame
ended up having to put this :/
@stone narwhal
mild sentinel
wait that person is here lmfao?
viscid flame
y
mild sentinel
i was the person talking to you on youtube comments lmfao
stone narwhal
yes, i see the username
i actually arm interested in running astral OS eyv entually and making a video on it
i just ciouldnt get it working for some reason before
grand shadow
What issues were you running into? Which iso were you using?
stone narwhal
What issues were you running into? Which iso were you using?
i tried the mo'st recent one at the time from github, as well as the one on the actdual astral os website
stone narwhal
even on things ive posted
yeah idk its bugged
grand shadow
Do u have a screenshot of the issue so I can debug it later
stone narwhal
Do u have a screenshot of the issue so I can debug it later
ill see if i have the footage but probably i dont naymore
i delete footage taht ia havent used
this was maybe a month ago or more
mild sentinel
i think that was beore i tested it?
stone narwhal
yeah i dont have the footage
but the issue i was getting
i dont remember ecxarcxtly what it said
mild sentinel
wana boot up a VM and try again?
stone narwhal
but it had cpu 1: at the front or something, it especially happened often when i tried to install packages
it would just take down the VM and freeze
grand shadow
Hmmm that sounds bad
mild sentinel
what VM did you use
stone narwhal
wana boot up a VM and try again?
when i try reicording again ill save the footage and send a message here about it
stone narwhal
what VM did you use
QEMU
grand shadow
Pronably qemu
stone narwhal
as suggested
stone narwhal
yeah that s what i tried, with the sulppliied flags on the site and stuff
grand shadow
Is it the same commandline as recommended? I will take a look at it once I get the time
Alright
stone narwhal
Is it the same commandline as recommended? I will take a look at it once I get t...
yes, but i think maybe i gave it more memory or something
buyt i also just tried running it normally
it wouyld happen somewhat unpredictably, but most often when id try to install packages
sometimes just randomly
really not sure why though
grand shadow
How many cpus did you give it? Just 2?
stone narwhal
i jsut used the default parameters in the command on astral-os.org
though keep in mind i was running it from the ISO instead of properly installing it on a new disk image or whatever
i did use the secondary file (root.img) as another disk as it shows to do
grand shadow
Alright
stone narwhal
is that known to' cause issues?
grand shadow
Never hit into that so probably good to look into it
stone narwhal
you wana try using a new ISO rn? if you got time
im actulaly editing a new OS exploration funnily enough so im oiccupied
opal lotus
why does it have an usb controller, 2 serial controllers and whatever ipmi is
ipmi is based
stone narwhal
and if i try again i'd rather record it rather than just running it on its own
so maybe in the next few days ill try again and report back
mild sentinel
ipmi is based
sadly idk where it is or how to use it on my laptop š
opal lotus
i have some servers with it
remote control 
i can also load ISOs via the webui
makes osdev on real hw very fun
mild sentinel
@grand shadow
grand shadow
Uhhhh can u mount the image and take an addr2line
Actually wait
I think the viritoblock driver thats pushed is nonworking
š
I can look at this at home
I was in the process of converting it to do scatter gather
gritty shore
ipmi is based
What is it?
opal lotus
basically server remote control
you can control fans, temps, remote console, virtual media
opal lotus
mild sentinel
you can also get IP KVMSs etc
mild sentinel
truee
opal lotus
my server cost me 900ā¬ + whatever ram costs
mild sentinel
<:meme:1386427600980934706>
the nvidia cops are coming
mild sentinel
my server cost me 900ā¬ + whatever ram costs
possibky like 6 grand atp
opal lotus
512gb ddr4
gleaming bay
oh abs
opal lotus
i got it for free :3
gleaming bay
insane
mild sentinel
sombody is gonna rob you if you keep talking about that ram
opal lotus
try me
blazing atlas
grand shadow
its going fine, slowly working towards getting 32-bit wine applications working
grand shadow
that'll probably come automaticall since I'm wiring up ldt stuff
grand shadow
the mysterious leaq in the end of the linux asm block
(its probably just restoring missing state from syscall
this code is so evil
I feel like if I make one mistake I will spend 1000 years debugging it
bronze nexus
the mysterious leaq in the end of the linux asm block
evil leaq
fleet osprey
Thatd be cool, I dont think Ive tried on an amd cpu for a while
Worked On My Machineā¢ when I tested it on my Ryzen 4750U thinkpad
that was the one with the PS/2 support that technically worked but was like massively behind or something
grand shadow
how long ago was that again
someone a while back pushed an i/o apic fix
(I was setting some stuff completely wrong)
gigabrain
signal: bad user stack 000000007FFBFC18 (altstack 0000000000000000) handling signal 11 trapno 14
first try of 32 bit wine
certaeinly no fun
fleet osprey
how long ago was that again
#1061407633745125397 message
oh yeah and this #1061407633745125397 message
grand shadow
certainly has been a while, maybe some time yu can try it again
fleet osprey
I have that laptop here rn and some spare time
send a build
in fact I actually have this whole week off for spring break
grand shadow
fleet osprey
hang on let me try writing it again
might need to grab a new flash drive lmao
that time it worked lol
shitty flash drive ig
grand shadow
that does not sound good
fleet osprey
oh holy shit PS/2 just works
grand shadow
any bugs that might happen I will call hardware bugs
yopooo?
me when random person in random pr in github just fucking fixes my shit for free
hell yeah
wish I knew who that guy was to thank him
fleet osprey
grand shadow
fastfetch fastfetch fastfetch
oh yeah its writing to port e9 hopefully theres nothing important there
grand shadow
YEAHHH
grand shadow
@analog berry astral curse is no more
fleet osprey
grand shadow
ps/2 has been solved
grand shadow
fleet osprey
gotta see GPU: AMD Radeon whatever iGPU garbage blah in fastfetch
btw do you want me to try this on a Chromebook as well
I have a shitty old Acer Chromebook with an ancient Celeron
modded with UEFI fw
fleet osprey
This nugget
this does not meet Ubuntu's minimum system requirements btw
it's too ass
the installer won't even boot, it doesn't even enough RAM
had to init=/bin/bash and set up swap before boot
just to get the installer to load
I could have just went with a better distro but I also intentionally wanted it to suffer under the crippling weight of GNOME
Itās this abysmal piece of junk if you care about specs
pretty sure it doesn't even have xhci so it's probably gonna take it a hot minute to boot
grand shadow
holy slop system
grand shadow
my laptop also is over i2c but it has a ps/2 mode
fleet osprey
However:
fleet osprey
power button even works
if we ever get the Astral 32-bit x86 port I have an old Dell Inspiron I can try it on
Pentium M
grand shadow
thats outside my scope
fleet osprey
1GB RAM
grand shadow
like
completely
I have not written the kernel thinking of 32 bit architectures at all
fleet osprey
grand shadow
its a craptop from 2004
š
I had to use that as my main laptop with lfs a few years cuz my old one broke
it was both fun and excruciating
fleet osprey
this one is extra bad because it has r300 graphics
and Mesa just kind has terrible support for those
like if you try to initialize anything with Mesa the system hardlocks
can't even ping it
fuckin completely dead
grand shadow
good thing I don't plan on having hw accel anytime soon
I went so far as to do an evil hack in my mesa patch to not need to implement /dev/dri
while using the glx dri backend
fleet osprey
wait what does that do
I thought it worked normally w/o /dev/dri
at least for software rendering
I know I've been able to run it on Linux systems that only have fbdev drivers, no DRM (even unaccelerated)
grand shadow
it just unconditionally passes some modes from the driver to xorg
so that xorg can actually boot
and give me accel
"""accel""
fleet osprey
interesting
so it's faster than whatever it does by default w/o /dev/dri?
pls give patches I could make massive use of that
grand shadow
I have no idea I just had to do that to get accel at all š
I would've kept the old xlib backend but like
egl doesn't support that
and you need egl for wine opengl
fleet osprey
ah
grand shadow
so its either that or no wine gaming
fleet osprey
I think xlib might be what it's using currently on my fbdev systems then
because I can do glxgears and whatnot
but it's like 5fps
very awful
software rendering isn't supposed to be fast but that's still pretty bad
grand shadow
but it's like 5fps
damn
analog berry
<@353593948523986945> astral curse is no more
Impossible
fast gorge
and PS/2 keyboard and mouse
Most laptops still use the PS/2 protocol.
sage locust
update Flanterm
mild sentinel
Most laptops still use the PS/2 protocol.
All of my other ones have used USB trackpads
stone oracle
Itās this abysmal piece of junk if you care about specs
Wait, is its "disk" eMMC? I wouldn't call it junk then. š from the osdev perspective.
fleet osprey
Wait, is its "disk" eMMC? I wouldn't call it junk then. š from the osdev perspe...
yes, it is indeed eMMC :P
it's in a pretty weird spot tbh
where it's trying to be good for "desktop" style usage
but it's arguably too weak for it
but it's also not an embedded device either
stone oracle
yes, it is indeed eMMC :P
Can you tell me the info on its host controller? I assume it resides on pcie? what lspci says? is it intel's one embedded inside that celeron or what is that? Genuinely intrigued.
fleet osprey
hang on, I can grab a whole hw-probe
fleet osprey
Can you tell me the info on its host controller? I assume it resides on pcie? wh...
https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=4ddb165318 here's all of the info on it
grand shadow
@mild sentinel oh yeah I remmeber you wanted an iso
This one doesnt have any logging tho
mild sentinel
Does this do the nic driver etc?
mild sentinel
Yeah send me one with logging just incase
And then I should hopefully be able to DHCP and get packages š
flint condor
wine debugging? thats like, debugging while consuming wine yeah? sign me up!
grand shadow
I wish but I don't like wine
grand shadow
ok it is just a mismatch between how my code expects the ldt index and what the code is passing
grand shadow
seems to have been fixed, running into another issue now it seems
but fs seems to be loaded with the 32 bit ldt selector :D
cr2: 000000000000003c gs: 0000
rax: 00230000ffffffff fs: 010f
rbx: 0000100000a6c640 es: 001b
rcx: 000010000039ed37 ds: 001b
rdx: 0000000000000000 cs: 0023
r8: 0000000000000000 ss: 001b
r9: 0000000000000000 r10: 0000000000000000
r11: 0000000000000246 r12: 0000000000000000
r13: 0000000000000000 r14: 0000000000010000
r15: 0000000000000000 rdi: 0000100000a6c640
rsi: 0000000000000000 rbp: 00000001000ff980
rip: 00001000003f3e46 rsp: 00000001000ff700
err: 0000000000000000 rfl: 0000000000010206
I gotta wake up in 6 hours so I will look into why this gpf is gpfing tomorrow
fleet osprey
sleep is for the weak
proper meteor
I gotta wake up in 6 hours so I will look into why this gpf is gpfing tomorrow
Do not the gpf
grand shadow
seems like a libc non canonical address access, spooky š»
oh, tcb is fucked
well thats fun
forgot to add some very specific code to save the pthread fs base
woopsie
grand shadow
well thats going to be extremely annoying to debug
register state seems to be borked
and mmap gets some invalid values
huh it is calling into mlibc with a ldt fs
that can't be goo
d
I think its just some stupid stuff relating to context switching that I messed up
this shit is extremely annoying to get right I must say
grand shadow
can wine run like 3d application here
Didnt try but dont see why not, it runs opengl
upper dragon
time to port the metaverse before it shuts down
grand shadow
ok I think it might be signal memes
it might be getting a signal and then getting another signal and I don't think I handle recusive altstacks properly
oh no I do
nvm
hearty fulcrum
lol
grand shadow
this is certainly a very damn annoying bug to try to catch
analog berry
whats the bug
grand shadow
whats the bug
fsbase is bad
grand shadow
well I am trying to get wine to work with 32 bit applications
and in that I am deep in ldt bullshit
analog berry
ohhh
grand shadow
the rip is in libc code (thread_mutex_timedlock):
auto tcb = get_current_tcb(); // <----- does asm volatile ("movq %%fs:0, %0" : "=r"(ptr)); inside it
return tcb->tid; // <----- dies here
the backtrace is in wine code:
0x64541 <allocate_virtual_memory+321>
0x67762 <NtAllocateVirtualMemory+306>
0x3c301 <__wine_syscall_dispatcher+413>
so I need to figure out why the fuck is __wine_syscall_dispatcher not working and if the way I'm doing it depends on some linux semantics that I obviously don't follow becasue I am linux
but I think it did run 32 bit code at this point if it is running syscalls, so thats a nice detail
(__wine_syscall_dispatcher is one of these huge asm sections)
"movq 0x320(%r13),%rsi\n\t" /* amd64_thread_data()->pthread_teb */
"testq %rsi,%rsi\n\t"
"jz 2f\n\t"
"mov $1, %edi\n\t" /* ARCH_CTL_SET_FSBASE */
"mov $1, %eax\n\t" /* SYSCALL_ARCHCTL*/
"syscall\n\t"
"leaq -0x98(%rbp),%rcx\n"
"2:\n\t"
this code looks sane