Astral

[grand shadow]

I'm in one of those barely touching code months rn

[hardy vine]

rn im basically programming whenver im not asleep or watching youtube videos lol

cuz of winter break

ah

why dont you port some other WMs tho

this wm looks like its from 1980 or something

[grand shadow]

I like the visual style, gives off that unix workstation look

[hardy vine]

yea true, i also think old unix looks are pretty c ool

[grand shadow]

I have thought of doing a proper cde port but nothing really stops me from porting something more modern ig

[mild sentinel]

I wonder how hard 32bit compat mode is on x86

[hardy vine]

btw im pretty curious, how hard it really is to completely port KDE Plasma / Gnome

[grand shadow]

for wine I think its just a matter of giving it an ldt

[grand shadow]

@prime juniper can probably tell you more

[mild sentinel]

I’d be a cool person and make my own window manager

[hardy vine]

same

[mild sentinel]

I mean atleast for x11 it’s not too bad from what I hear

[hardy vine]

but ill probably be making one with smithay

[mild sentinel]

So like

[hardy vine]

i hate x11

although i heard that porting wayland is insanely hard

[mild sentinel]

Yes but yes easy to port

Esp if all you need is basic mouse keyboard and framebuffer

[hardy vine]

a wayland implementation in rust

[hardy vine]

coool

average osdev codebase XD

[grand shadow]

wayland is annoying because pretty much all compositors out there expect you to be linux and implement linux apis

its not as easy as just xf86-video-fbdev and xf86-video-{mouse,keyboard}

[mild sentinel]

ATP just do Linux system call compat & other linux compat

[hardy vine]

ohh

[hardy vine]

then whats the point of even making an os

just use linux

and also i feel like the linux system calls are really weird and outdated

[mild sentinel]

For fun?

@viscid flame got a Debian userspace booting

[hardy vine]

well thats true

[hardy vine]

what does debian userspace mean eaxtly

like binaries from debian?

[viscid flame]

created with debootstrap

yes

[hardy vine]

cooooool

[grand shadow]

I really need to finish the ahci driver already but I have barely begun working on it 💀

[mild sentinel]

Do a poll on what to do once DHCP is fixed

Between wine ahci and some other things

[grand shadow]

no, I kinda have to get ahci done since its needed to run on that uni computer

[hardy vine]

magnarum is crazy tho

[mild sentinel]

Ahhh

[grand shadow]

hell, I will also need to get the xhci driver working and merged as well, but thats not as big of a priority as at least getting the thing to run there

[hardy vine]

a libc + a broswer + even nvidia driver

[mild sentinel]

@obsidian pivot has some horror stories from USB

[wild marsh]

managarm driver compat layer :^)

[prime juniper]

Hard. KDE has a lot of moving parts but Qt6 is decent. GNOME has a lot of moving parts, a fucking JavaScript engine (spidermonkey required, that is Firefox soooo) and it has gobject-introspection. So pain^3. But I’ll do both one day (working on it)

[hardy vine]

WHAT KDE

[marsh sparrow]

gobject-introspection is indeed massive pain

g-o-i hard requires you to run target system code at build time

It cannot be cross compiled

[gleaming bay]

it's really not

I did

[bronze nexus]

@grand shadow Do you have pre-built images of Astral I can give to a friend at Hackaday to review?

She said she needed more stuff to write about and she does this thing called "Jenny's daily drivers"

I've already showed her Managarm for example

[grand shadow]

I can make an updated one real quick

[bronze nexus]

Awesome thanks

[prime juniper]

YOOOOO BASED

[grand shadow]

https://astral-os.org/about should have some updated images and a root filesystem with everything installed

[mild sentinel]

[grand shadow]

oops

https://astral-os.org/about.html

[mild sentinel]

no realtek nic listed ?

really cool site tho :3

[grand shadow]

I think its still not working 100% so not listing it rn

speaking of

[mild sentinel]

ahh

[grand shadow]

pls test pleading emoji pleading emoji

[mild sentinel]

oke send iso

[grand shadow]

u can just download the bootdisk.iso in the website its literally like the most recent one

[mild sentinel]

true

but we gotta abuse discord servers and put tons of large iso files

[grand shadow]

trvthnvke

[mild sentinel]

here il do it for you

@grand shadow

It works

[grand shadow]

?????

what the fuck

I didn't change anything??

[mild sentinel]

It’s the prints

[grand shadow]

other than adding the prints

do a xbps-install -S

to see if tcp is working

[mild sentinel]

Lowkey keep them there because it looks like food info anyways

[grand shadow]

u sure U didn't like

use an old iso when u tested last time

[mild sentinel]

I used the one I replied to

I am 99% sure

How do I install x11 now

[grand shadow]

maybe it didn't have the updated netd for some reason?

[mild sentinel]

Or like doom or ping

[mild sentinel]

Maybe?

[grand shadow]

xbps-install -S doomgeneric

I think it might lock up tho

theres an issue with the rtl8169 that I ran into when trying to download a package and I didn't really bother trying to figure it out

[mild sentinel]

Yeah it did lockup

[grand shadow]

if u ^C and then netd again does it lock up for good?

[mild sentinel]

Yup

I can’t even control c

[grand shadow]

yeah ok

I think tx is fucked

somehow

or something else

[mild sentinel]

[grand shadow]

idfk

[mild sentinel]

I mean the network card is clearly doing something

[grand shadow]

sucks to debug on real hardware rahhhhh

[mild sentinel]

That’s progress

[mild sentinel]

Just add more print statments

[grand shadow]

so true

I'll take a pass at the rtl8169 driver again later and see if I find anything

[mild sentinel]

Make sure every print statment has a print statement that says it’s about to print and what it’s about to print

[hearty fulcrum]

is if aliased to ls -a

[mild sentinel]

I was trying to do ifconfig

And using tab autocomplete

[hearty fulcrum]

ah

[bronze nexus]

I've sent this to her btw

[grand shadow]

alright

ty

spooky

[mild sentinel]

Btw do you plan to add the stuff for Neo/fastfetch to make it give a ton of system info?

[grand shadow]

eventually

I know someone who is trying to port fastfetch to astral

[grand shadow]

while I don't have /proc I have sysinfo but nothing that nefoetch calls uses sysinfo

[mild sentinel]

Damn

[grand shadow]

I think I might have an idea after forcing claude to stare at the code so long that it ran out of tokens

I might be getting an interrupt that I don't account for and that prevents any more interrupts from firing

which makes sense considering what is happening

[hearty fulcrum]

this is how I used up all my tokens for a month in a few minutes

(multiplier)

[grand shadow]

I put it in sonnet 4.6 thinking mode and it was thinking for like 10 minutes before just saying "lol nothing is wrong here"

and then I forced it to look into it again before it finally spat out something that seemed like an actual issue which looking at the docs I think it is

Imma see if I can fix it rq and up that think rq

@mild sentinel if u wanna test it again I put up a new iso in the same link

this one should hopefully be the final final (1) - final - copy final (1) (2) version

[grand shadow]

so true

[mild sentinel]

Uhhhh

I think it regressed

[analog berry]

Astral DOSing the router

[grand shadow]

well something is causing the router to ignore astral's dhcp packets

do u still have the stuff to take the router's logs?

[mild sentinel]

I have not enabled that yet

But I can maybe still find them on the slow ass panel

[grand shadow]

u could also maybe hook up wireshark and look for these dhcp packets, since it should be a broadcast packet

though if the router is just refusing the packets that won't be of much help for debugging

[grand shadow]

since here its waiting for any response on the dhcp client port

which it is not getting

[mild sentinel]

i dont think any of these are from the desktop

[grand shadow]

yeah it can't be since theres not even an ip set yet

windows ICS dhcp server seems to recognize it and the qemu dhcp server also recognizes the packets

[mild sentinel]

ive renabled syslog so maybe i can catch some stuff next test

[grand shadow]

your router is an rpi? crazy

[mild sentinel]

nah my rpi gets the logs

[grand shadow]

oh

[mild sentinel]

My router supports Unix syslog

I just set that up on my pi

[grand shadow]

crazy

[prime mulch]

crazy

[mild sentinel]

@grand shadow ngl I’d bet a 1gb ddr2 ram stick your router supports it just the same

[grand shadow]

I doubt it, I've went thru the whole thing trying to even get ssh access or any sort of better logging

[mild sentinel]

Almost no routers have SSH

Syslog is kind of an old standard

It may have it?

This is what Wikipedia says lol

[grand shadow]

I haven't seen anything syslog related

[mild sentinel]

darn

[grand shadow]

anyways if you could try the wireshark think that would be cool

[mild sentinel]

i could put astral on the laptop and run dhcp and wireshark on my desktop?

[grand shadow]

isnt the laptop the super broken one that astral can't boot in

[mild sentinel]

Wasn’t that with the corruption issues?

That got fixed

[grand shadow]

No idea

[grand shadow]

wonder if I am missing some option in the dhcp packet that makes the real router not want it?

looking at the windows dhcp packet it shoves a lot more info there

client identifier, host name and vendor class identifier

I suppose I could add those to see if the dhcp server would be happier

yeah thats going in my todo

anyways, I found that while setting up ics again to test the rtl8169

so time to do that

[grand shadow]

According to the clanker the missing client identifier is the reason why its being dropped

Ok the clanker wasnt right about the issue with the rtl8169 locking up

[grand shadow]

I have implemented the client identifier and hostname options for DHCPDISCOVER

I'm gonna upload an image and when you have time test it? @mild sentinel pleadin gemoji

[hardy vine]

this screenshot looks like a minecraft ARG lol

minecraft alpha + fog

[fleet grove]

its still incredible that it can run it tho

[hardy vine]

yup

[robust geyser]

sonnet is not very smart

[hardy vine]

tbh gemini is really good at osdev stuff

ive been using gemini to write tests and teach me about osdev stuff

because osdev resoruces pass "hello world" is basically nonexistant

[robust geyser]

yeah because osdev past "hello world" is "do whatever you want"

[pure thunder]

now add multiplayer so you can play bw on it

[robust geyser]

it's already been done

[marsh sparrow]

Gemini's chat/web interface is decent for some quick checks

[robust geyser]

so is claude

but using it for generating any osdev related code is kind of dumb

[hearty fulcrum]

I have free gemini pro
It's useful for looking up docs or searching for stuff in Linux source

[marsh sparrow]

Claude Code is definitely quite usable for many osdev tasks

[robust geyser]

well i was mainly thinking about generating fresh code

as in

have it come up with something

rather than work on an existing codebase

[marsh sparrow]

yeah you have to give it the architecture, I wouldn't use it to come up with a design on its own

if you do the latter, the result will just be one of these slop kernels with web browser in kernel mode

[mild sentinel]

you want the image to add it to the server ?

also is the image uploaded

[grand shadow]

It is

[grand shadow]

Ichave no idea what tou mean

[mild sentinel]

Like the emoji

The

[mild sentinel]

Il test it after im done eating

[grand shadow]

Oh nah I just say emotes without actually sending them

[mild sentinel]

Ahhh

[grand shadow]

Skull with cross bones

[mild sentinel]

Skull emoji

[grand shadow]

update on ahci work: I think I have the controller init code done but its not tested nor does it compile (missing the defines)

[mild sentinel]

@grand shadow got the link?

nvm here you go discord servers

[fleet grove]

nice :3

[grand shadow]

https://avalios.dev/bootdisk.iso

fun fact, the one on astral-os.org is just a symlink to the one in avalios.dev

💀

[mild sentinel]

@grand shadow same issue

And I know I reflashed it

Because I had my kernel on this USB a minute ago

[grand shadow]

dhcp or tcp?

we have two issues

[mild sentinel]

It never got past DHCP

Why not port a different DHCP client

[grand shadow]

lazy + that'll need me to implement even more linux apis

[gritty shore]

Is avalios your last name?

I also got mylastname.dev

It's neat

[grand shadow]

avalios.dev
avali osdev

[gritty shore]

ah avali is?

[grand shadow]

nah

[gritty shore]

Bruh

[grand shadow]

its furry stuff

💀

[grand shadow]

can u get a wireshark log of the dhcp or like the router logs

[mild sentinel]

Shit let me see if they are there

[grand shadow]

I really really don't see why the router would just straight up ignore the packets seeing as I already handle a ton of shit

[mild sentinel]

I did not have wireshark setup

I wonder if I could do the DHCP stuff and wireshark it in a VPN?

VM*

[grand shadow]

hmmm

if you can passthrough I think that might work? idk

probably not

cuz then linux wouldn't knwo about the nic

[mild sentinel]

Nothing in the logs from my Mac darted

Address

Let me check IOMMU groups

[grand shadow]

💀

[mild sentinel]

Crap

My network card is on IOMMU group 15

Which if you don’t know

In my system is uhhh

It has like half of my shit in it

💀

Including both of my NVME SSDs

[grand shadow]

💀

[mild sentinel]

I am so sorry @grand shadow

[grand shadow]

what is weird is that there was one time where the router actually worked

[mild sentinel]

Maybe the router was just feeling good that day

[grand shadow]

inb4 packet loss rate: 99%

[mild sentinel]

💀

Could that be it tbh?

And it’s just a TCP transmission issue

[grand shadow]

I mean its udp so

could be that the packets are being lost before getting to the router

but that woudln't explain why the autonegotiation works

unless maybe the cable is bad and it uses another wire in the cable for the an?

seems like it does?

[mild sentinel]

It’s a direct cable from desktop to router

And I get full gbps

I have gbps WAN up and down

If it had a bad wire I don’t think it could pull that?

[grand shadow]

trve

[mild sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

I will say the cable is beaten down to hell and back though

But it’s cat6a so it should handle it mostly

[grand shadow]

ughhh can you get (and anonymize) a wireshark of the dhcp transaction between your router and windows? so I can compare what your router and windows thinks is good

I am thinking I might still be missing some DHCPDISCOVER option

[mild sentinel]

I really don’t wana have to load my windows install

[grand shadow]

or linux

[mild sentinel]

That thing is as slow as fucking shit

[grand shadow]

any working os 💀

[mild sentinel]

💀

True

[mild sentinel]

The thing is on a good nvme ssd yet windows loves to shit it’s pants

[grand shadow]

its windows so

[mild sentinel]

trueee

ngl i havent used it in a few months

and every time i do use it i could of just not

[viscid flame]

actually its w*ndows 🤓

[mild sentinel]

@grand shadow how should i setup wireshark

[grand shadow]

set it up to listen on the ethernet, unplug cable, plug it back again, stop and look at the dhcp packets

[mild sentinel]

would this be enough to turn unto a pcap?

[grand shadow]

just the dhcp transactions would be enough

can filter it by dhcp at the top

[mild sentinel]

so these?

[grand shadow]

lgtm

[mild sentinel]

i hope these cant get me hacked

[grand shadow]

I will hack yhou I am evil haxor

😈

[mild sentinel]

crap how di i make the PCAP only have DHCPs?

[grand shadow]

uhh is there any option to save only the filtered packets?

[mild sentinel]

here we go

[grand shadow]

thank

hm I am missing the requested ip address and maximum dhcp message size options for dhcp discover

I don't think the requested ip address one is really needed but the maxmum message size might be having an effect

though on the windows dhcp pcap I have it doesn't really have that option

also it seems to be using unicast?

sending this here cuz too lazy to scp it

[formal patio]

filter for dhcp

[formal patio]

File->Export Specified Packets

[grand shadow]

looking at the dumps, the only difference is the seconds field (non-issue), boot flags (one wants broadcast the other wants unicast, probably non issue), you have more stuff on the parameneter request list, and you have the max message size option as well

I wonder if the router is actually responding but the rx is not firing for some reason

ughhh

can't really know

its either the router does not send back a DHCPOFFER or the rx isr does not go off if it does

@mild sentinel are u sure u can't like get wireshark on your laptop to listen for the dhcp broadcasts

sent to/from astral

(I know I am bothering you a lot but I really want to get to the bottom of this)

[mild sentinel]

ive got other computer obligations to do rn

but i can find my usb ethetnet thingy in a bit

[grand shadow]

thank

that would help me pinpoint the actual issue

because theres two possibilities

either the router never sends the dhcpoffer or the router sends and it doesn't get to astral or it gets but the irq doesn't go off for some reason

which considering the router did respond that one time, it makes me believe there might be some misconfiguration going on

on my irq stuff maybe

[mild sentinel]

Do you perchance know how to make decide tree sources compile properly

Because that’s the main thing holding me back rn on this other project I’m helping a friend with

[mild sentinel]

Would it still work with the laptop on WiFi too?

[grand shadow]

I have no idea

[grand shadow]

u can tell wireshark to just listen on one device

since it mostly just wants to listen on the network

unless it gives priority to ethernet over wifi, which then also isn't an issue

[prime geyser]

is there a reasonably complete astral distro nowadays?

like with all the stuff to boot into a desktop environment preinstalled

[grand shadow]

https://astral-os.org/about.html has a link to downloads and a qemu commandline

[grand shadow]

someone is working on smth

[robust geyser]

about frickin time

this is so long overdue

[grand shadow]

Talks have always been cheap tho, someone is finally sending patches

[marsh sparrow]

Hm?

I don't get what's new 😅

[neon crane]

fastfetch?

an actual astral ascii logo?

[analog berry]

Thats not a new logo tho I think

[grand shadow]

Yeah its just the neofetch one

[grand shadow]

But yeah, someone is working on a fastfetch port

[marsh sparrow]

ah, i see

[willow rapids]

i thought you finally implemented procfs but nah xD

[grand shadow]

nah I think it uses sysinfo() for that

[viscid flame]

for what

[grand shadow]

uptime

[viscid flame]

isnt it uses clock_gettime for it

[grand shadow]

could be I have no idea

[fleet grove]

siiiccckkk

[grand shadow]

anyways, I am still doing work on the ahci driver

working on getting the interrupt infrastructure working + command submission and waiting and error reporting

[grand shadow]

error handling in ahci seems very annoying to get right

[fleet grove]

ahci is just annoying in general

there's a reason i've never implemented a driver for it

[grand shadow]

Ok finally got the driver to compile and run, it seems to dispatch the identify command but I dont think the irq handling is working

Oh right I think I forgot to enable the d2h irq

[grand shadow]

thats not right

we got ata identify working

[analog berry]

Btw did you see my proper AHCI init sequence tutorial #osdev-beginner-0 message

[grand shadow]

I thought resetting the hba was optional

cuz in the spec it only says system software may reset it

did you run into any systems where not resetting didn't work?

[grand shadow]

Ugh trying to send another command causes qemu to not even process it, trace just prints the write to pxci and thats it

Really dont want to have to recompile qemu cro

And if I dont send the identify qemu sees the command

So I am probably missing some stupid hyperspecific register write to keep processing commands or some bullshit

[hardy vine]

does debugging stuff get easier as the os gets better?

[analog berry]

I haven't tried not resetting it, I assume you just depend on the state the bios left it in in this case

[fierce forge]

I think you just get better at it

[grand shadow]

in bios we trust

[grand shadow]

yooo we got life out of it

[viscid flame]

so astral ahci is real ???

[fleet grove]

That's fucking awesome

[grand shadow]

i/o seems to be working but chrooting to /mnt seems to have locked up

though I think I probably made a mistake somewhere there

hm wait

did I forget to

signal the semaphore

to indicate free command list entries

🥀

lmfao I did

we in the ahci disk chroot bois

write does not seem to be working though

as in, a write command never gets sent out for some reason?

💀 ok syncing just makes the written data disappear

I think I am reading instead of writing there

write bool is true
look inside
command being dispatched is READ DMA for some reason

command_table->fis.command = write ? ATA_COMMAND_WRITE_DMA_EXT : ATA_COMMAND_READ_DMA_EXT;

#define ATA_COMMAND_READ_DMA_EXT 0x25
#define ATA_COMMAND_WRITE_DMA_EXT 0x25

bro

🥀

[viscid flame]

there's trace for ahci in qemu ?

[grand shadow]

-trace ahci_* -trace ide_*

alright write does work properly now

time to make it boot from xorg using ahc

ok boots into xorg

time to do some small stress tests and if all is ok then I can upstream it already

hm today I will compile gcc

nah probably just gnu hello or some other smaller package

[marsh sparrow]

compile mlibc

;D

[grand shadow]

true

skull

too lazy to download it, disabing linux option it is

meson worked

oh right I cannot compile without linux headers cuz my sysdep uses that shit

aghsdhhhsdhgha ok Ig I'll wait for headers to download

[bronze nexus]

yay for not being able to just vendor those because incompatible licenses

[marsh sparrow]

technically that wouldn't have any impact

but vendoring them would add a lot of code that we don't want to carry around

[grand shadow]

accidentally ctrl+c'd the qemu vm after it extracted the headers tarball

I am very smart

I always forget that I haven't set up serial right to make the ctrl+c not affect qemu

I think you have to use some different qemu option instead of -serial stdio for it to work

[bronze nexus]

It's -serial mon:stdio, then ^C doesn't exit it

(Instead it's ^X a)

[grand shadow]

thats not a very bad speed for a baby's first tcp implementation

[grand shadow]

yeah thanks

it was like 15mb/sec at the start but slowed down

I think as packets began to arrive out of order or smth

https://tenor.com/view/the-punisher-gif-22731535

weird

this only happens when a directory is the second operand

🔥🔥

oh

I am running into that same null vnode bug qwinci did

I don't think qwinci ever upstreamed his work

@carmine swallow do you want to git format-patch it and send me it?

or can I just fix it myself

anyways, I think the ahci driver seems to be upstreamable

considering it didn't die and explode after a git clone and a 100 mb tar -xf

[grand shadow]

this weekend I will be travelling so probably no driver work, instead I will see if I can port some emulators for the arcade

[marsh sparrow]

did you get mlibc to compile?

[grand shadow]

I went to cook dinner, cant really try it for a bit

[winged basin]

i stub those mofos

[grand shadow]

I've ported mednafen

it really really wants an implemented sem_timedwait

cuz its just SMAPPING THE FUCK out of logs

pid 244 tid 245: mlibc: sem_timedwait is implemented as sem_wait

@robust geyser now we just need to upstream the xhci driver

[robust geyser]

[grand shadow]

chop chop bro

I mean isn't it mostly just done

[scenic epoch]

sneeze emulator

[marsh sparrow]

The first 80% are probably done but not the remaining 80%

[carmine swallow]

idrc, I forgot about the patches I had and I can't send it rn as I am not home until tomorrow evening

[grand shadow]

Alright

[robust geyser]

it works™ but i still need to finish the hid report parser (pain) and we still need evdev (pain)

evdev is an arguably decent interface, we just need to add support for it and i had some issues with wiring it up last time i tried to

[viscid flame]

evdev is not pain

[robust geyser]

eg. the mux input device, for the console tty

[robust geyser]

ive done a part of it, if you dont think implementing it into astral is an undertaking then send the patch my way

ill wait

:^)

hid parsing is probably easier to do tha evdev atp

[grand shadow]

We can sit in a vc and sort all of this out monday or sunday night

Im traveling with bf rn

[viscid flame]

boyfriend or best friend

🤔

[grand shadow]

Left as an exercise for the reader

(boyfrien

[robust geyser]

sounds good, have fun

just lmk whenever you’re around

[grand shadow]

Sure thing

Ill be in a bus for the next 6 hours so if u want to keep taking a look at it I can probably help if I dont lose connection or fall asleep

[viscid flame]

where are you traveling

6 hours in bus is hardcore

[grand shadow]

Another state to see my father in law

[robust geyser]

nah its alright, this needs a proper session lol

we need to think through the evdev shit because im too smooth brained

[grand shadow]

Fair yeah astral's device system really needs some work in the future

Things like hotplug were kinda not very well thought of but they do work since ptys use that same subsystem

I mean I did say I was going to rewrite it like 6 months ago but I have gone on so many tangents at this point

[robust geyser]

page cache

didnt you say you wanted to rewrite it for better zero copy scatter gather io

or something

thats the whole reason i added iovec support to my usb stuff

but idk if you actually went through with that or was it just something you wanted to but didnt end up doing

[marsh sparrow]

I'd just support boot interfaces for a first version

[robust geyser]

they already work

thats whats on my branch right now

[grand shadow]

Yeah I was working towards it, I made the nvme driver do proper prp an was working on getting the virtio block driver to do it as well

Its gonna be a huge speedup to be able to do clustered page in/out

I stopped somewhere in the "writing support for page locking so I can dma into userspace while keeping posix fork semantics" part

[robust geyser]

oh shit u want to do actual zero copy io

thats cool

yeah i realise that zero copy means exactly that, but i had a different version of zero copy in my head lol

[grand shadow]

Rn it dmas into the page cache and copies into the desired place even in "uncached" operations, but in my new design being able to dma directly in uncached io will be a nescessity

[marsh sparrow]

Is this only for O_DIRECT i/o?

[grand shadow]

Yeah and in some other places in the kernel like filesystem drivers

[marsh sparrow]

tbh i think DMA to the page cache is sufficient in most situations

there are exceptions of course

like large file transfers or databases

[mild sentinel]

Hey math does your kernel support a GDB stub over real serial?

If you ever get around to me needing to debug some things I’m getting the parts in to do such

[grand shadow]

It does not

[mild sentinel]

Would you accept patches for such a feature?

[grand shadow]

Patches always welcome :3

[mild sentinel]

Then once I get my bits and hopefully they work il get started on making a portable one to work nicely :3

& of course port it

#1431140025805832343 message these are the parts I got and I should have them in two days or so

[obsidian pivot]

ik someone with that

ik him really well

better than anyone else

[mild sentinel]

Is that you?

[obsidian pivot]

yes

[mild sentinel]

Well I wana make one :p

And I wana have fun

[obsidian pivot]

dw its not portable at all

[mild sentinel]

[obsidian pivot]

and its really unreliable

[mild sentinel]

Lmfaooo

XD

[obsidian pivot]

unusable, even

[mild sentinel]

Then I will be sending patches your way

[obsidian pivot]

bet

talk is sent, is cheap patches?

[mild sentinel]

Il make a very nice interface for it with some good options

[mild sentinel]

Sure

[obsidian pivot]

will i be able to use it over udp

will it be able to identify and debug different threads and processes

or will it work on a cpu basis

[gritty shore]

I think it's a lost cause trying to make a generic kernel debugger as it is so deeply ingrained with its own design

[mild sentinel]

I will bundle a serial port driver & way to let you use your own TX and RX options. I will have functions to hook into your scheduler to let you enable disable so it works on the right threads and you can spawn per CPU instances if you have the more advanced TX RX options potentially

[obsidian pivot]

mhm

I dee

no

I see

[mild sentinel]

I mean it’s certainly not impossible to make a decent generic one that can be modified to your needs and have plenty of generic callbacks etc

Yes it would take effort to integrate enough but it’s not an impossible task to give a decent base to people

[obsidian pivot]

just send patches to obos i need it the most

obos runs on like 3 devices

all with like the exact same cpus

[mild sentinel]

Mine gets it first

[obsidian pivot]

no

[mild sentinel]

When I make the generic stuff

[obsidian pivot]

fine

[mild sentinel]

And then either astral or you gets it first

Depending on how much you bribe me

:p

Bidding starts at 1 4gb stick of ddr3

[obsidian pivot]

give me ur address ill ship it to u free of cost

[mild sentinel]

math needs a chance to bid

[tawny oak]

I never tested your code but I did reference it while writing my own gdb stub - it was very helpful.

you're resource #3 🙏

[obsidian pivot]

out of curiosity what did you reference

[tawny oak]

the general flow of things

[obsidian pivot]

I see

[grand shadow]

Extremely bad quality fursona art

[mild sentinel]

I think this beats the stick of ram

Because I really need some new art done

@obsidian pivot can you take it higher

[obsidian pivot]

2 ddr3 4G

jk

[mild sentinel]

Math wins then

They get the patches first

[obsidian pivot]

this is unfair

100 usd

jk i dont have that money to throw around

$5.75 CAD?

[mild sentinel]

Your gonna need to do a bit better than that

[bronze nexus]

lmao pay-to-win OSDev

[obsidian pivot]

yes but beaver coin

[mild sentinel]

That’s not even enough to buy a game on a steam sale 💀

Atleast most games

[obsidian pivot]

you could be the proud owner of a coin with a moose

[mild sentinel]

I’m pretty sure I already have a Canadian coin somewhere in my house

[obsidian pivot]

polar bear coin?

[mild sentinel]

Not sure

I also have a 25 pesos coin somewhere too I remember

[obsidian pivot]

i have one euro

[mild sentinel]

I have a euro coin too

[obsidian pivot]

how much

[bronze nexus]

I have several euros

[mild sentinel]

My dad finds lots of coins and gives them to me when he cleans

[mild sentinel]

How many are you willing to part with for gdb stub patches

[bronze nexus]

(I live in Europe so everything is Euros)

[obsidian pivot]

i can read european how much is that

[mild sentinel]

Mine looks like that but with a 5 on it iirc

[bronze nexus]

Unfortunately I don't have a shit job right now so nothing at the moment

[bronze nexus]

There's no €5 coin

[mild sentinel]

I will also take payment in CS2 skins

[obsidian pivot]

[mild sentinel]

Damn I must be miss remembering

[bronze nexus]

There's a €0,50 but it's fully brass

[mild sentinel]

Then it probably was a 1 euro coin

[obsidian pivot]

@bronze nexus is this one euro cent or one euro

[bronze nexus]

One euro

[obsidian pivot]

nice

[bronze nexus]

The cent coins 1 and 2 are no longer used, and 5 is rare now too

[mild sentinel]

Also as aside how the fuck is windows subsystem for Linux not ass?

[bronze nexus]

The cent coins are a copper color

[mild sentinel]

Like it’s running QEMU with KVM and audio and everything

With no fucking jank

[obsidian pivot]

at current exchange rates, that euro coin is worth this much

[mild sentinel]

Do you have an old coin from I think Asia that has a square hole cut out in the middle?

Possibly very rare

I don’t know where it’s from

But it looks rare

[bronze nexus]

you have 1, 2 (no longer in use), 5, 10, 20 and 50 cent, and 1 and 2 euro coint

anything bigger is bills

[mild sentinel]

In fact in the US we do have 50 cent coins

And I think dollar ones

[obsidian pivot]

canadian bills are very beautiful

i got some fresh ones from the bank a week ago

they dont taste as good as they look, be warned

[bronze nexus]

lmao

why are you tasing bills

[obsidian pivot]

friend said id get to keep 10 bucks if i took a bite out of it, then i found out i cant pay with a 10 dollar bill with a bite out of it

(jk, i made that up)

im not tasting bills a friend told me

whats worth more, $6 worth of coins melted into metal, or $6

(for legal reasons i am not melting coins into metal)

[mild sentinel]

The coins

Only the US penny costs more to make than what it’s worth

[bronze nexus]

Did they make melting coins illegal because the metal became worth more 💀

[obsidian pivot]

yes

[mild sentinel]

(for legal reasons i am not advising or endorsing you to melt coins into metal)

[bronze nexus]

Over here we just do the logical thing and discontinue the tiny coins

[obsidian pivot]

we discontinued pennies a while ago actually

idk what the us are still doing with those

[mild sentinel]

It took the US like 20 years and an orange nut job to get rid of the penny

Possibly the only good thing trump did

And possibly only for show

But atleast CGPgrey can rest

[proper meteor]

depends on which country

[bronze nexus]

lmao

[opal lotus]

is this real

[obsidian pivot]

lmao

[willow rapids]

ah yes my favorite country

[proper meteor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listenbourg

[mild sentinel]

Btw math do you have a codeberg repo for when I want to give patches

Because I don’t like going on GitHub to interact

[obsidian pivot]

git format-patch

xD

[mild sentinel]

[grand shadow]

Can always git format patch

[mild sentinel]

I shall do that then o7

[grand shadow]

time to test some changes to the rtl8169 driver in real hw and also see if my ahci driver will work

[mild sentinel]

I actually have a machine with a corrupted Linux install that uses a SATA ssd if you want me to test on that and be willing to sacrifice the data

(Il be home tomorrow so I won’t be able to test until then)

[grand shadow]

sure thing

issue is

neither things I did worked

☠️ 🥀

neither rtl8169 nor ahci

[mild sentinel]

Damn 🥀

Well hopefully the hardware debugger will help

I could possibly also pipe it over the Internet and let you Telnet into it lmfao

(Through my VPN)

[grand shadow]

Something is wrong I think

[viscid flame]

v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!v!

[grand shadow]

It did seem to properly dispatch reads to some disks and find the partitiins

I think the issue os I am hanging because Im sending identifies to unimplemented ports for some reason

Also ficking 36 partitions ☠️

Wait true

Its all two ports and just an ungodly amount of partitions

I think Im missing a check in my gpt stuff

Then I think whats acrually wrong is my ahci irq stuff?

[mild sentinel]

Not being called sdX

[grand shadow]

its not even scsi bruh

the reason why its called scsi in linux is because it does some insane scsi -> ata translation or something

[mild sentinel]

Oh lmfao XD

Why 😭

[grand shadow]

thats rtl8169 interrupts and rx dpcs

[grand shadow]

Honestly no idea whats causing ahci not to work nor rtl8169

Ahci identify sends and it even sets the is register

I think I should just look into the memory corruption on real hardware first, that seems like it could mess with a lot of thongs

[grand shadow]

🥀

Ahci hanged

Same issue as on my desktop

[robust geyser]

480k uacpi score 🥀

[flint condor]

can it play doom? 😄

[grand shadow]

Ts is like a super old xeon cpu

4th gen xeon

☠️

[grand shadow]

It cant even boot atm but when we get xhci merged yes

[grand shadow]

I am super confused as to what is happening though

It seems like the issue is sitting between the pxis -> msi

As pxis does seem to get set properly

And ghc.is too

[mild sentinel]

diddnt i hear about MSI issues here before or was that MISX?

[grand shadow]

That was my rtl8169 advertizing msix support but that being broken

Switching to msi fixed it

[grand shadow]

@analog berry btw uacpi works on some random ass xeon from 15 years ago

[robust geyser]

the cpu doesnt really matter, what matters is what kind of a mobo this thing has

and i can only imagine all kinds of cursed

i can only further imagine what kind of firmware this thing runs :D

[viscid flame]

its the most wild x86_64 hw which i saw

[mild sentinel]

I wonder what other things this can run

[grand shadow]

It ran ubuntu but the gpu driver is borked, its an older nvidia gpu

[analog berry]

not bad

[analog berry]

real astral score leak??

[grand shadow]

Im surprised astral didnt crash and burn

[sage locust]

Limine W

[marsh sparrow]

it's expected that the score is much lower on real hw ofc

[robust geyser]

oh yeah, the score is highly hardware dependent - not only how fast the ops are executed but also what kind of ops are executed, and that of course changes with what the specific hardware you are running it on is

[marsh sparrow]

yeah but it'll always be slower than on qemu

qemu does very few hw accesses during acpi init

[analog berry]

They could also like.. insert a Sleep or something

[robust geyser]

lmao

least fucked firmware

[fleet osprey]

"super old"
bruh

I actively use a machine with a Xeon v2 as my NAS

E3-1240 v2 specifically

v4 is still pretty modern, that's like Broadwell

[marsh sparrow]

which is 12 years old by now

;D

[fleet osprey]

and?

"super old" is like Pentium II

at newest

[marsh sparrow]

no pentium 2 is just unusable for today's workloads

[fleet osprey]

sounds like a skill issue

I can still use a Nintendo Wii running Linux for most of my day-to-day work

729MHz PPC750CL, 88MB of RAM

[opal lotus]

yeah that IS super old by comparison

[opal lotus]

then you don't do anything demanding

[gritty shore]

Old xeons are awesome

[fleet osprey]

compiling stuff would suck

[gritty shore]

Only disadvantage of xeons is their power consumption

[fleet osprey]

yeah I agree

[marsh sparrow]

you're definitely not using it right now as discord doesn't fit into its RAM ;D

[opal lotus]

lol

[fleet osprey]

ofc not
I said I can, not that I would if I had access to better machines

[opal lotus]

why make that point then

[fleet osprey]

also swap exists

[opal lotus]

that makes it even more unusable tho

[fleet osprey]

because it can still do everything I need to do in a day
if I had no other machine I would not be completely fucked

and it's practically slower than the P2 I was comparing as a reference for "super old"

mostly due to the low ram

[mild sentinel]

can you do a days worrth of work on the wii lol

[fleet osprey]

yes

I just said that

[mild sentinel]

id love a blog post on that

of doing a days worth of work on wiilinux

[fleet osprey]

maybe I should do that one day when I'm less busy

obviously stuff would be way slower

so I would get less done

but still would be functional enough

[marsh sparrow]

It's definitely a cool project etc but saying that you can do a day of work on it is a stretch

maybe it applies to you in particular

but I certainly couldn't

because it'd OOM when trying to compile anything non-trivial

[opal lotus]

maybe if by that you mean sshing into a more powerful machine and doing stuff there

[fleet osprey]

swap is basically required

it can't even be able to run pacman -Syu without at least zram

for anything like compiling, running GTK/Qt apps, etc, you also need to add swap on disk

but it shouldn't OOM

[marsh sparrow]

isn't it going to be super slow due to the swapping though? the disk access times are probably not great either

[fleet osprey]

not really
swap makes it faster arguably, Linux starts to chug really badly when it's low on RAM

if it can offload some stuff to swap it stays reasonably fast

as long as your swap disk isn't like an A1-class SD card or a mechanical HDD

then the cost of putting something on the disk dominates

but if it's a semi-competent disk and it has swap, and you aren't super aggressively thrashing, then yes, having swap is more performant than not having it

[marsh sparrow]

what storage interfaces does the wii have?

[opal lotus]

sd card

[fleet osprey]

SDHCI v1, EHCI, OHCI

[robust geyser]

ah yes let me destroy my drive because i am running linux on a wii

[marsh sparrow]

out of that usb2 probably gives the higest speed (?)

[fleet osprey]

also EXI (the memory card ports) which is basically Weird SPI, running up to 32MHz, but that's not a serious contender ofc

[marsh sparrow]

weird that they have sdhci but decided to put the memory card onto a 32mhz spi lol

[fleet osprey]

it nominally would but the HCs in Hollywood are fucked up

[fleet osprey]

EXI is carried over from the GameCube, which had uhhh.... nothing else other than EXI

even the IPL and RTC in the GameCube were on EXI

[marsh sparrow]

ah right, these cards are only used when playing gamecube games, right?

[fleet osprey]

yup

[marsh sparrow]

makes sense

[fleet osprey]

basically they have super weird quirks, and arbitrary DMA limitations, which make it super buggy and unstable

because Linux can't work around them perfectly

like it assumes that you can do uncached arbitrary-size writes to any DMA memory, but that's just not true on the Wii; if you do that in MEM1 then it corrupts the word that you've written and other words around it

[willow rapids]

Nothing a 16gb USB 2.0 flash drive mounted as swap can't fix :P

[grand shadow]

Broooo Im dumv as fuck

Ahci sends a PSS irq and not a D2H irq on identify complete

[mild sentinel]

💀

uhhh what are thoes btw lol

[grand shadow]

pio setup fis interrupt and device to host interrupt

indetify is a pio command

it worked on qemu because qemu is stupid

[mild sentinel]

ahhhh

lmfao

[mild sentinel]

na but how did they mess that up?

and not have it break things

[grand shadow]

it sends a d2h instead of a pss

so it worked on qemu and not on real hw

[mild sentinel]

yeah but wouldnt that break other kernels?

or "standards complying" ones

[grand shadow]

no idea

[mild sentinel]

good luck on finshing it btw

[grand shadow]

thank

its mostly just getting ahci working and then fkin rtl8169 memes

still no clue what the fuck is going on there

[mild sentinel]

maybe the magic "make it work" bit isnt being set

[grand shadow]

trvthnvke

maybe its some quirk

anyways ahci works now

can read

not gonna fucking test write

because I value my data still

seems like I have to add ahci support to parted

[mild sentinel]

you got my laptop to test tomorrow for wiriting

[grand shadow]

bet

does it have an rtl8169

[mild sentinel]

im not sure

[grand shadow]

or compatible nic

if it does

unironically

if I fix the rtl8169

bug

install

astral

on

it.

[mild sentinel]

but it does have an SSD eith a fucked up linux install

@grand shadow i mean its a cheap laptop so good chance its realtek lol

but i think its 1OOmbps?

or make a driver foir the nic on it

[grand shadow]

trvthnvke

its either a 8139 or a 8169

8139 is probably much easier to write a driver for though, considering qemu emulates it

[formal patio]

unless you have some ancient fucking piece of hardware you don't have a RTL8139

that thing is PCI-only

no express

[grand shadow]

I have fixed the stupid fucjing rtl8169 bullshit

[hearty fulcrum]

noice

[grand shadow]

Broooo 😭

Why so slow

Funnily enough ahci just randomly decides not to appear on this machine. Weird ass corruption

I need to go and fkin update limine and uacpi already

Because I genuinely dont know how yhe fuck the allocator is bugging

And its better to shift the blame

[grand shadow]

Like lowkirkenuiely it runs minecraft and eberything else I have thrown at it but it doesnt like random aml

[hearty fulcrum]

how does one host an xbps repo

[marsh sparrow]

xbps is usually hosted over http

you need to put the packages into a directory, run xbps-rindex on it to create an index and sign it, and you need to host the whole thing

[grand shadow]

Good news! Ahci seems to work and some rtl8169 init at least seems to work (phy init failed because no cable connected)
Bad news! Ps2 emulation either doesnt exist or is extremely broken

[viscid flame]

try to remove resend limit maybe it will work

[grand shadow]

That WTF print has a funny story behind it

I was putting logs behind e9 after a certain step of boot to reduce logging on the screen

But I forgot about that

And for like

A whole hour

I just kept reflashing thinking rufus or my usb stick were broken

Because prints werent working

@robust geyser wanna look into the xhci stuff today? I gotta sort some bureaucracy stuff off for the research stuff but then I will be free the rest of the evening when I get home from uni

[robust geyser]

i think xhci is fine, other than maybe trying to make it on work on real hw/other emulators

evdev is what we need to work on

[grand shadow]

Sure

[robust geyser]

but yeah just give me a heads up

[grand shadow]

What were you blocked on just for me to start thinking about it

[robust geyser]

making the console tty work with it

[grand shadow]

Alright

[grand shadow]

Wonder if there is a way to emulate joysticks in qemu

Joysticks and buttons

[mild sentinel]

Run Linux on the device and pass it though or if it’s a HID device I’d presume any standard controller could work for passing

[marsh sparrow]

Just use usb passthrough

[grand shadow]

@robust geyser how are you wiring up the keyboard stuff right now? Is it driver -> keyboard -> evdev or is it directly driver -> evdev?

If the keyboard abstraction still sits between it then I think thats still a cleanish place to send at least ascii bytes off to the console thread

[robust geyser]

i tried ripping out keyboard and mouse abstractions

[grand shadow]

Hmmmm

I guess we could just have an ascii ringbuffer that the console thread will wait on and its written to on every event on a keyboard evdev thing

I really need to read up on how evdev works first of all

[robust geyser]

i can give you a quick run down if you want

it's really simple

[grand shadow]

Sure

[robust geyser]

at least the basics, there are some more "advanced" things

[viscid flame]

is evdev is /dev/input

[robust geyser]

yes

the basics are pretty much what you have right now with the keyboard and mouse abstraction, just more generic - you read from the input fd in units of struct input_event, each one of those contains a timestamp, event type (key, button, rel/abs movement, some more stuff) and event code (the actual key, which mouse button, which axis) and the value (for keys it's 0 if released, 1 if pressed, 2 if repeat, for axes it's the actual value, either absolute or relative)

[viscid flame]

its just ringbuffer and a lot ioctls

[robust geyser]

the more advanced stuff is basically done over ioctls, i have some basics done which is describing the input device (like the name, version and stuff)

[sage locust]

do binary compat

[viscid flame]

astral linux compat when

[robust geyser]

but you also have a few ioctls to grab the limits for each axis, so you can figure out how for example map absolute values

[grand shadow]

Oh sounds simple enough

Maybe you can just relay these events to the console driver somehow

[grand shadow]

Nah

[viscid flame]

do it

[grand shadow]

Werent u like hating on linux compat a few months ago

[sage locust]

depends on the circumstances

if you're using the mlibc Linux option and plan to implement a lot of Linux interfaces and have no plans to have custom interfaces, then binary compat is the smarter choice

[grand shadow]

Ehhhhhh

[sage locust]

give me a counterargument

other than vibes

[grand shadow]

I dont want to do it and it also means I have to implement a bunch of stuff that otherwise I could have just ignored like drm or epoll

I do not plan on implement either, at least not for now

And if I ever do epoll, Im probably doing kqueue

Its just more flexible and I prefer it this way

Also allows me to do astral specific patches

[sage locust]

you are free to return ENOSYS even with binary compat, most libcs (glibc, musl) and software gracefully handle that

[grand shadow]

How is glibc going to handle me enosysing a drm ioctl or open

[robust geyser]

libdrm will

[sage locust]

yeah lol

[robust geyser]

and will bubble it up to whatever called into it

[viscid flame]

just support fbdev

[grand shadow]

Which will then crash because it wants that ioctl to work abd I dont want to inplement drm

[robust geyser]

but you won't get drm ioctls if you don't expose drm devices in the first place

[sage locust]

yeah lmao

[robust geyser]

so that will just fall back onto other interfaces

eg. fbdev

[grand shadow]

Or something like netlink

[robust geyser]

that's fun

[sage locust]

binary compat is completely viable and these are non-issues as exemplified by other OSes here already

[robust geyser]

don't you just love udev

[grand shadow]

I dont want to implement those apis

[robust geyser]

don't you want to run systemd so bad

[sage locust]

^

[grand shadow]

Rather not

[robust geyser]

great point

id rather run openrc as well

[grand shadow]

Idk who said Id want either one of these

[robust geyser]

but udev is an essential part of any linux system so that sucks

[grand shadow]

But I literally never said that

[sage locust]

yeah but a lot of people will implement udev/netlink and still not do binary compat

binary compat means you no longer have to deal with maintaining a full distro

which is literally a project onto itself

alongside the other advantages i already mentioned

[grand shadow]

And even if I did I would literally just use a mlibc linux distro

[hearty fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-good-news-everyone-professor-farnsworth-great-news-gif-17213270

[grand shadow]

Anyhow I am not doing linux binary compat

[opal lotus]

it does mean you have to emulate linux fully tho

that includes netlink

it's one of the reasons I don't like binary compat with linux

[opal lotus]

drm isn't too bad

but yeah fbdev is just much easier

[marsh sparrow]

Astral is not even linux source compatible, is it?

Like, it uses sysctl and stuff like that and not something like sysfs/procfs (?)

[grand shadow]

No sysfs/procfs yeah

[opal lotus]

yeah

[analog berry]

Lol everyone was hating on Linux binary compat before

Now everyone does it

[grand shadow]

yeah its such a weird change of mind

[winged basin]

evdev is very reasonable

freebsd is having that nowadays

[opal lotus]

yeah

evdev and drm are not linux only interfaces

[robust geyser]

[grand shadow]

@robust geyser

[grand shadow]

@robust geyser btw how does joysticks etc work? Is it just like sending abs/rel events?

[robust geyser]

pretty much, yeah

[grand shadow]

And with keys for the buttons

[robust geyser]

yup