- fps too
#Astral
wraith surge
grand shadow
I have only booted 2.8 like once so I dont remember that
wraith surge
also, now there is 2.8.1 too
sharp carbon
i must confess this is the first time in my life i have touched gtnh
grand shadow
monkuous on their way to vanish for a year the moment they start playing gtnh
its a fun modpack
analog berry
sharp carbon
can't wait to start my first ever gtnh playthrough and do it all on astral
analog berry
Yess
gritty shore
i have never played minecraft with mods
only optifine
/sodium
am i missing stuff
analog berry
Depends on the level of complexity you enjoy
harsh echo
Are you sure that the cache manager ever unmaps the cached MFT views?
grand shadow
gtnh is the insane man's modpack
grand shadow
bonus points if gog
wraith surge
i'm in UHV rn
wraith surge
bonus points if gog
a YTuber is doing that
grand shadow
a YTuber is doing that
the goat
wraith surge
last run was like 1k
harsh echo
The process that mapped a specific MFT view may have closed, leaving some MFT views still mapped
wraith surge
but stopped at UV
analog berry
but stopped at UV
Why?
prime mulch
Are you sure that the cache manager ever unmaps the cached MFT views?
i imagine it would at unmount time
analog berry
Lol
wraith surge
also, they doing a multiblock change now
analog berry
Should've just finished on the old one
wraith surge
they are changing basically all the structures
analog berry
Yep
grand shadow
oh wtf
analog berry
That's good
grand shadow
damn
wraith surge
(i was also working on a new multiblock)
grand shadow
oh true lmao
analog berry
Or a lot of them
grand shadow
centrigure ebf turbines etc
analog berry
Yep
blazing ingot
The process that mapped a specific MFT view may have closed, leaving some MFT vi...
Then they waste some memory on that
analog berry
Also I unironically learned some chemistry from gtnh, I knew literally nothing
Since a lot of recipes and alloys are literally exactly as irl
Even like the way u get titanium via ebf with magnesium and stuff
wild marsh
mm greg petrochem
analog berry
Lmao
bronze nexus
NO FUCKING WAY
grand shadow
@sharp carbon that EMFILE error earlier could have been some dns bullshit
mlibc was leaking fds when a dns error happened
sharp carbon
oh possibly
grand shadow
I'm gonna test rq if the timeout code works and then upstream the patch to astral + open a mlibc pr
and that fixes the fd leaking as well
seems to be working
dns patches are up
sharp carbon
I have gone to bed
prime mulch
im enjoying monkuous' role as an angel going around doing miracles for our projects randomly
neon crane
it's honestly kinda funny
my favorite kind of person is the anonymous green discord profile picture person with an uncanny amount of knowledge in a topic
and by anonymous i mean they don't have many connections on other platforms
viscid flame
actually it can help for cpu rendering
it increased 10-20 fps on my raspberry pi when it was doing cpu rendering
grand shadow
yeah it could be that the missing shared memory stuff is making it slower to a point where sodium doesnt have much of an impact(?)
grand shadow
and about the xorg shared memory stuff, it seems like it can use /dev/shm and mkstemp
which might not be the best option but works lol
or rather, /run/shm
hm
const char *shmdirs[] = {
"/run/shm",
"/var/tmp",
"/tmp",
};
one of these
/tmp is already mounted as a tmpfs
but I would muuch rather it use /dev/shm
grand shadow
well it seems to be enabled now
that is pushed as well
didnt seem to make that much of a difference on my laptop but I am also missing a lot of perf work monkuous did
plus running under wsl
I changed the xorg patch so you'll have to rm rf the xorg-server sources btw
and rebuild for the shm extension
marsh sparrow
Depends on the level of complexity you enjoy
the base game mechanics are pretty complex already, you don't need mods for complexity
analog berry
huh lol
which minecraft mechanic is complex
the base game is piss easy
if you think its complex gtnh is definitely not for you
it has processing lines needing hundreds of machines
like kevlar etc
sharp carbon
didnt seem to make that much of a difference on my laptop but I am also missing ...
no impact on performance for me either
are you sure that log message indicates that SHM is actually used rather than just the extension being enabled? because that message was there before i applied the patch too
analog berry
analog berry
Well okay I guess were talking about different types of complexity
If you wanna beat Minecraft base game you dont need any of these things
sharp carbon
@grand shadow I looked into it and using X11 SHM with Mesa requires shm* syscalls
this is in mesa
it has no fallback methods
if this function fails it disables shm use
robust geyser
would you look at that
what the heck is a shmget 
why do you need shm anyway
is it that important for x11 performance?
sharp carbon
yeah
robust geyser
what is done differently if you don't provide shm?
sharp carbon
presumably it sends the image data over the socket to xorg
idk the details I just know it's very inefficient
analog berry
why do you need shm anyway
well so u can share the framebuffers with the window manager/compositor
otherwise it has to memcpy every frame
robust geyser
yeah that somehow did not cross my mind immediately
marsh sparrow
shmget is probably the worst shared memory interface on Linux though
files on tmpfs are literally better
sharp carbon
yeah but that doesn't change that mesa seems to require it
analog berry
shmget is probably the worst shared memory interface on Linux though
isnt that an abstraction on top?
sharp carbon
i don't think it's possible to implement shm* as an abstraction
not without a central server at least
analog berry
hmm yeah it is
marsh sparrow
and the semantics are incredibly stupid (not linux's fault) since it uses a single global space for shm names
analog berry
so it requires some private instance of ramfs or something
prime mulch
and the semantics are incredibly stupid (not linux's fault) since it uses a sing...
lol i almost forgot about that
imagine using a namespace for something like that and having it be a global flat namespace and not just using the filesystem you already organized everything else around
someone was lazy
analog berry
iirc it's a syscall on linux, let me check
Lol yeah on linux it does
shmem_kernel_file_setup - get an unlinked file living in tmpfs which must be
* kernel internal.
it calls it sprintf(name, "SYSV%08x", key);
should've been a libc function
marsh sparrow
i don't think you can implement it as a libc function
analog berry
hmm why?
the only issue i guess is it may collid with some existing file in tmpfs but other than that seems doable
marsh sparrow
the value returned by shmget is not an FD
it's really a globally valid number
Look at the example in https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/shmat.2.html
prime mulch
who came up with that
marsh sparrow
unix system v apparently
deft oak
it's really a globally valid number
what if you also created a file with that number as its name
prime mulch
unix system v apparently
kill them
younguns always dunk on certain mainframe/minicomputer boomers like the VMS guys for hating on Unix back in the day
they have to remember
this is the unix they were hating on
it deserved hatred in the 80s
analog berry
the value returned by shmget is not an FD
Why is that a problem?
As long as your shmat can find it
neon crane
shmget is probably the worst shared memory interface on Linux though
why is that?
marsh sparrow
why is that?
because if you're on new versions of linux you can just use memfd_create
and on old ones you can use O_TMPFILE
and if you don't even have that, you can fall back to a file in /tmp
neon crane
i don't think you can implement it as a libc function
says who
marsh sparrow
see discussion above
There are other subtleties, for example shmdt cannot be implemented just on top of munmap
sharp carbon
i implemented shm* to the extent that is necessary for x11 shm to function but the improvement is much worse than i expected
glxgears fps went from 1400-1500 FPS to 1800-1900 FPS (on my host with llvmpipe it's 3500-3600)
in minecraft the improvement was unnoticeable
analog berry
in minecraft the improvement was unnoticeable
So strange
What could be bottle necking it so much
sharp carbon
i've done some more testing and the mc improvement seems highly situational instead of just all out unnoticeable
deft oak
glxgears fps went from 1400-1500 FPS to 1800-1900 FPS (on my host with llvmpipe ...
btw when i switched from using mlibc to doing linux binary compat my glxgears fps magically doubled from like 1400 to 2800
sharp carbon
when there's a lot of non-full blocks around (like in the overworld where i initially assessed the impact) it's unnoticeable
deft oak
idk what caused it
sharp carbon
but in the end where there's basically only full blocks it went from 10-15 to 45-60
nearly 60 FPS in minecraft on astral
neon crane
There are other subtleties, for example shmdt cannot be implemented just on top ...
no, because it doesn't take a size. but couldn't you store the size somewhere else
analog berry
btw when i switched from using mlibc to doing linux binary compat my glxgears fp...
glibc is super fast probably
analog berry
nearly 60 FPS in minecraft on astral
huge
btw whats the state of gtnh starting a game?
sharp carbon
still the same error with gadomancy
analog berry
some internal object being null?
sharp carbon
i tracked it down to a gadomancy research item not being registered with thaumcraft for some reason
but i haven't investigated further than that
sharp carbon
btw when i switched from using mlibc to doing linux binary compat my glxgears fp...
this looks very similar to the current difference between astral and my host system
might just be mlibc perf issues then
marsh sparrow
glibc is super fast probably
that'd be surprising though if mesa relied that heavily on libc calls
sharp carbon
memcpy maybe?
analog berry
that'd be surprising though if mesa relied that heavily on libc calls
even basic stuff like memcpy etc
sharp carbon
iirc mlibc memcpy is about as optimized as you can get while still having it be written in c++ but it is c++
analog berry
it uses avx for that
sharp carbon
whereas glibc uses handwritten asm that takes advantage of whatever features the actual running cpu has
analog berry
^
robust geyser
oh yeah i'm not saying it's not impressive, sorry
marsh sparrow
even basic stuff like memcpy etc
i doubt that that's a problem
robust geyser
it's just that memcpy probably is insignificant in this case
sharp carbon
i think to go further a proper profile is needed yeah
and i don't think astral has anything near the needed infrastructure for that
deft oak
wasnt there a way to profile the entire vm
analog berry
it sucked iirc
sharp carbon
sampling yeah
but for stuff like this where sub-millisecond stuff matters it's not that great
marsh sparrow
A 2x improvement would mean that even if glibc memcpy was 4x as fast (it isn't), the overall time in memcpy would need to be way > 50%
So I'm skeptical that these numbers are correct (and attributed to mlibc) unless somebody does an apples to apples comparison
i.e. linux glibc vs. linux mlibc
A program can also be sped up significantly by libc improvements if it already spends a lot of time in libc which sounds unlikely for this workload
grand shadow
glxgears fps went from 1400-1500 FPS to 1800-1900 FPS (on my host with llvmpipe ...
Glxgears is only 550 fps on my cpu on astral insane difference damn
sharp carbon
huh, that's... interesting
grand shadow
I mean when its single threaded it doesnt have to send tlb shootdowns
marsh sparrow
how many threads does it use w/o an explicit setting?
analog berry
1
grand shadow
Yeah and I dont have sysconf so 1
robust geyser
makes perfect sense
grand shadow
But yeah I think thats mostly tlb shootdown overhead
Since I only send shootdowns on userspace when theres >1 thread
deft oak
I mean when its single threaded it doesnt have to send tlb shootdowns
might be related, i noticed that glxgears constantly mmap's then munmap's the same piece of memory
analog berry
why does it do that?
grand shadow
I remembered testing that on linux as well and when setting lp num threads it also slowed down
marsh sparrow
It probably allocates / deallocates frame buffers
analog berry
having a set number of framebuffers is alien technology
sharp carbon
I remembered testing that on linux as well and when setting lp num threads it al...
for me on linux it definitely helps $ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true LP_NUM_THREADS=1 glxgears 11824 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2364.768 FPS 12447 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2489.235 FPS Terminated LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true LP_NUM_THREADS=1 glxgears $ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true LP_NUM_THREADS=8 glxgears 20418 frames in 5.0 seconds = 4083.596 FPS 20365 frames in 5.0 seconds = 4072.906 FPS Terminated LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true LP_NUM_THREADS=8 glxgears
deft oak
for me on linux it definitely helps ```
$ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true LP_NUM_THRE...
same in my testing
grand shadow
Weird
maybe it was wsl being funky
cant even repro it because LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE doesnt work with wsl for some reason without passing some more envs which I forgor 💀
and I changed it to use proper gpu a while back
deft oak
why do you use wsl anyways 💀
analog berry
r/linuxsucks 
grand shadow
cba to install linux
bronze nexus
cba to install linux
so you make your own os instead
grand shadow
maybe the reason I got so far with astral is because I didnt install linux who knows 
bronze nexus
but still
robust geyser
[iretq@DESKTOP-TAQSOFJ ~]$ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 LP_NUM_THREADS=1 glxgears -info | grep -E 'GL_RENDERER|frames in'
GL_RENDERER = llvmpipe (LLVM 21.1.5, 256 bits)
14234 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2846.708 FPS
14279 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2855.724 FPS
14534 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2906.710 FPS
[iretq@DESKTOP-TAQSOFJ ~]$ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 LP_NUM_THREADS=8 glxgears -info | grep -E 'GL_RENDERER|frames in'
GL_RENDERER = llvmpipe (LLVM 21.1.5, 256 bits)
14954 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2990.709 FPS
15041 frames in 5.0 seconds = 3008.050 FPS
15133 frames in 5.0 seconds = 3026.420 FPS
[iretq@DESKTOP-TAQSOFJ ~]$ LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 LP_NUM_THREADS=24 glxgears -info | grep -E 'GL_RENDERER|frames in'
GL_RENDERER = llvmpipe (LLVM 21.1.5, 256 bits)
9761 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1952.070 FPS
9759 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1951.615 FPS
9772 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1954.358 FPS```lol
probably because the other cpus are being shared with windows
but 1 to 8 is negligible for me
grand shadow
well you have a trillion cores I have 8 cores on my laptop
so even less cores makes it slow down 💀
but yeah there is defo something bottlenecking smp in astral
and since it seems to slow down when running with >1 thread on glxgears it seems to be tlb shootdown?
I already only send that shit only to cpus that are running in the same address space and once per munmap so I'm not sure what more can be done on the userspace side
I know kernelspace I still dont do that lazy shootdown thing
deft oak
I already only send that shit only to cpus that are running in the same address ...
i wonder if you could do the tlb shootdown asynchronously
(i dont do smp at all so i might say something stupid)
analog berry
well with RCU u kinda do that
bronze nexus
i wonder if you could do the tlb shootdown asynchronously
You mean in the sense of sending shootdown ipis but deferring freeing until they finish?
deft oak
yea
bronze nexus
Not that I should be discussing any of this w/ my kernel that doesn't shoot down tlbs
prime mulch
i wonder if you could do the tlb shootdown asynchronously
managarm does this
prime mulch
You mean in the sense of sending shootdown ipis but deferring freeing until they...
managarm does this
(so yes you can do that)
bronze nexus
That's cool
analog berry
because managarm kernel is coroutine driven
robust geyser
does that really matter
analog berry
makes it very easy
bronze nexus
You can still do this is a kernel that isn't inherently coroutine based
analog berry
but u can make a completion callback when all cores finish the ipi
grand shadow
well astral having proper profiling infrastructure is way overdue at this point and I can look into how to do it later unless monkuous wants to do it
sharp carbon
nah i'm probably gonna move on to non-astral stuff
bronze nexus
monkuous just going around randomly helping projects 
analog berry
nah i'm probably gonna move on to non-astral stuff
what are you doing next
analog berry
nice
bronze nexus
Do you have a post for that I can follow?
analog berry
whats the current state of xarch btw
sharp carbon
Do you have a post for that I can follow?
i do not
sharp carbon
whats the current state of xarch btw
haven't worked on it in a while, but iirc it's unstable but functional and gets to a bash prompt
analog berry
nice
analog berry
probably just gonna work on my own kernel
the 32-bit one?
bronze nexus
That sounds like pain
sharp carbon
as always
analog berry
pls dont delete the current branch
sharp carbon
i won't dw
grand shadow
name it after a different hydrogen isotope every rewrite
bronze nexus
Deuterium
sharp carbon
name it after a different hydrogen isotope every rewrite
hydrogen-16 doesn't exist
analog berry
add a new component every time, so hydrochloric acid this time
grand shadow
gregtech refenrencencnecne
prime mulch
haven't worked on it in a while, but iirc it's unstable but functional and gets ...
send a disk image for this
i might put it up on the demo web page
analog berry
gregtech refenrencencnecne
chemistry was invented as a meme to reference gtnh
bronze nexus
gregtech refenrencencnecne
No... ? That's a gas that exists in oil processing. Like. In the real world.
analog berry
thats the joke lmao
bronze nexus
It's like one of the big dangers they have shittons of sensors for.
grand shadow
no... reality copied gregtech....
deft oak
no stupid its a factorio reference
analog berry
lolol just electrolyze it for free sulfur and hydrogen duh
bronze nexus
no stupid its a factorio reference
Factorio basegame doesn't have any references to chemistry like that
The most you get is U-235 and U-238
And maybe sulfuric acid
grand shadow
lolol just electrolyze it for free sulfur and hydrogen duh
the oxygen molecules just vanishing
grand shadow
real
sharp carbon
send a disk image for this
boot-args = root=/dev/xrdisk0p1 rw console=tty0 oops=panic
it has bash and coreutils installed
prime mulch
boot-args = `root=/dev/xrdisk0p1 rw console=tty0 oops=panic`
can you make a version that has the bootloader send that command line automatically
actually
can you do that and make the disk /dev/xrdisk3p1
so i can attach it as dks3 in the web demo
sharp carbon
for me it works more often than not
prime mulch
it works if i crank up the cpu speed crazy high
it consistently crashes with a lower speed
i dont think i will put this up as a web demo yet bc it will just demo that xrstation crashes a lot
maybe on its own sub-page
sharp carbon
understandable
grand shadow
so profiling basically boils down to:
set up a ring buffer
set up a pmc
set up a nmi handler for it that writes to that ring buffer
expose that via a device or some other way
robust geyser
pretty much, yes
grand shadow
seems simple enough
analog berry
nmis in astral letsgo
sharp carbon
i didn't know it got that far
grand shadow
probably just gonna expose that via a /dev/prof or something and have some application be able to attach to it
sharp carbon
ah
grand shadow
hmm and I could make it so that profiling is disabled/enabled by writing into it
@marsh sparrow in managarm, do you add any more info like pid/tid and do you only log instructions in the kernel
grand shadow
Alright
neon crane
sorry i stole your thunder in <#1147101978388877352> lol
amazing nickname
gritty shore
I already only send that shit only to cpus that are running in the same address ...
ASIDs
bronze nexus
ASIDs only make a TLB invalidation less expensive
They're not magic (i.e. if the process had filled the entire TLB then it wouldn't do anything)
gritty shore
that doesnt help with shootdowns
nvm youre right
they only make switching address spaces cheaper
grand shadow
Anyways savinf this here for later https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?p=305959#p305959
Yes I am gonna shamelessly steal managarms profiling :p
Its simple and seems to work well enough for managarm
prime mulch
so profiling basically boils down to:
set up a ring buffer
set up a pmc
set up a...
What's a pmc
Pentucky mried chicken
robust geyser
performance monitoring counter
winged basin
What's a pmc
The Professional/Managerial Class
grand shadow
did some mlibc stuff now starting the profiling stuff
at one point I also should create a python script that generates a graph of the init dependencies in the kernel
shouldn't be that complicated since dependencies get defined on the same macro as the routine is defined
the macro soup is worth
grand shadow
instead of doing profiling I do this :P
grand shadow
damn this pmc shit crazy wtf was intel cooking
thats gonna take a while to learn how to do
analog berry
instead of doing profiling I do this :P
how did u produce this
grand shadow
how did u produce this
python script that greps the source code for all init routine defines and processes it
its upstream
its a really hacked together thing but it works lmao
grand shadow
bro I have had that for monmths
grand shadow
init routine defines?
analog berry
oh i missed that rework
grand shadow
yeah it was one of the first things I did when I woke up from my slumber
anihilate all _init from main
analog berry
ahh
grand shadow
now I have an init system fueled by macro soup
analog berry
managarm larp
grand shadow
real
unlike managarm's this is 100% organic macro soup
no industrialized goods here!
surreal wraith
How can I run Astral on the real hardware with all pre-installed programs and games?
robust geyser
managarm larp
not real initgraph tho...
grand shadow
How can I run Astral on the real hardware with all pre-installed programs and ga...
Theres no real hardware nic support so youll have to do an initrd with everything, and idk if itd even fit in memory at this point
surreal wraith
Theres no real hardware nic support so youll have to do an initrd with everythin...
That's sad(
grand shadow
where do astral packages come from
Maybe next year Ill add more driver support, I have much more important stuff to do in the kernel than write more drivers
Prs always welcome :)
willow rapids
dang that's a lot of packages
prime geyser
ah
analog berry
https://astral-os.org/repository
How are you hosting it btw
grand shadow
How are you hosting it btw
Some random ass vps I have had for a while now
analog berry
Ah
proper meteor
Some random ass vps I have had for a while now
when will this vps run astral?
grand shadow
when will this vps run astral?
I would need to implement like xen hypervisor disk and network stuff 💀
proper meteor
virtio ain't enough?
grand shadow
Idk if they expose virito
I could run lspci to see
But they do allow you to run your custom os image
🥀
proper meteor
Terrible
prime geyser
would astral as a container os have the same performance issues when used to host a Minecraft server without graphics?
grand shadow
would astral as a container os have the same performance issues when used to hos...
no idea
and worst case I finish the profiler and profile it
I already have the architecture independent side of it done
its just that the architecture dependent part differts between amd and intel and sucks
marsh sparrow
The AMD one is quite sane
The Intel one not so much
On intel, don't forget to unmask the PMI in the lapic LVT since it auto masks itself 
It's very intuitive because no other lapic LVT irq does that 
Consistency is key at intel
proper meteor
intel and amd have builtin stuff for profiling?
marsh sparrow
they have performance monitoring features
with performance monitoring counters you can get an interrupt on every X instructions / cache misses / branch mispredicts or similar metrics
proper meteor
with performance monitoring counters you can get an interrupt on every X instruc...
Nice
prime juniper
dang that's a lot of packages
https://repos.managarm.org/repos/amd64/ (yes it has multiple versions of packages, but so does astral)
willow rapids
jeeeeesus
prime juniper
We keep every version ever around (for now)
But the total amount of unique packages registered in the repo is 448 last I checked
marsh sparrow
We keep every version ever around (for now)
we should also keep doing that, it's useful for bisecting
we can potentially put it onto cheaper storage though if needed
but for now it's not a problem
prime juniper
Yeah I have no plans to change it at this point. And it is useful so it’s fine to keep around
formal patio
when astral os-test btw
grand shadow
when astral os-test btw
Soon™
Currently working on the mlibc demo os and book but when Im done with that and the profiling stuff I can pick between doing ostest or page cache work
formal patio
highly based
fleet grove
So the Awawi is still working on this 
grand shadow
So the Awawi is still working on this <:sip:989271544461152336>
Yup
A lots been going on
fleet grove
A lots been going on
I can tell ^^
grand shadow
I can tell ^^
A few days ago monkuous beat minecraft 1.12.2 in astral
Now I am working on profiling and a page cache rework
fleet grove
A few days ago monkuous beat minecraft 1.12.2 in astral
Whoa that's actually amazing
grand shadow
fleet grove
Damnnn
grand shadow
Speaking of, when do you think youll be able to upstream the work? @sharp carbon
sharp carbon
Speaking of, when do you think youll be able to upstream the work? <@93822388643...
it's already pretty much ready to be upstreamed, it's split up into individual commits and everything
i'm just waiting for ftpmirror.gnu.org to go back up so i can test it
willow rapids
gnu mirrors trying to not be down 99% of the time (impossible challenge)
sharp carbon
for reference, these are the new commits
not included is the rtld mlibc pr that was upstreamed but that's only necessary for 1.13+
grand shadow
Good stuff, thanks
grand shadow
i'm just waiting for ftpmirror.gnu.org to go back up so i can test it
Least unstable gnu.org moment
carmine swallow
Maybe that gtnh issue was that?
on astral? or when I tried it on managarm
on managarm it ran to the zero-length truncation assert or whatever it was (and it did run into this first too but I already fixed this locally when I tried it)
grand shadow
on astral? or when I tried it on managarm
Astral, apparently one of the mods did not want to load properly
carmine swallow
its probably that then if it happened very early
grand shadow
The game loaded but couldnt open a world because of gadomancy not loading properly
carmine swallow
ah then its likely not the same thing
sharp carbon
Yeah I doubt it's the same thing
sharp carbon
btw @grand shadow the kernel doesn't compile with a new copy of limine.h (like what gets downloaded by the recipe on a clean build), seems like some names have been changed since the code was written
neon crane
btw <@215823874615541761> the kernel doesn't compile with a new copy of limine.h...
i remember when limine used to have revision based defines
seems like they were removed
really i think astral should just have vendored limine.h
this specific header is bsd0 licensed
sharp carbon
yeah they were seemingly removed when the limine major version was increased
which, you know, fair enough since major version increases indicate breaking backwards compatibility
but annoying
grand shadow
damn thats annoying
if you can include fixing the header to an older version in the pr I'd be grateful
sharp carbon
4607d68cbdbe653885937fb3178449588addb799 is the last commit with the api revision thing, i'll fix it to that
grand shadow
thanks
sharp carbon
@grand shadow do you want me to make this one giant pr or should i split it up?
grand shadow
<@215823874615541761> do you want me to make this one giant pr or should i split...
Can be a big one idm
marsh sparrow
isn't the mlibc patch upstream?
grand shadow
https://github.com/Mathewnd/Astral/pull/17
Thanks, Ill look into it in a bit
sharp carbon
isn't the mlibc patch upstream?
I meant it as in not tracking upstream
grand shadow
isn't the mlibc patch upstream?
It is but I am running an older mlibc version because of abi break + openjdk didnt have a patch
sharp carbon
astral is on an old commit of mlibc because updating needs a world rebuild
marsh sparrow
ah
grand shadow
I might update it either today or tomorrow if I feel like it
I am not sure if waiting for leo's locale pr would take too long
grand shadow
Oh thats good, I thought it would
Then I should update it soon
Maybe after I finish the mlibc guide thing
marsh sparrow
nice
bronze nexus
astral is on an old commit of mlibc because updating needs a world rebuild
You mean having to rebuild all your cross compilers or smth?
Or is it an ABI thing
sharp carbon
You mean having to rebuild all your cross compilers or smth?
I mean that literally everything would need rebuilding
bronze nexus
(So yes, it's ABI)
sharp carbon
There's been an ABI break since the commit it's on right now, and since it's the libc, that affects literally everything
bronze nexus
I hope you have build scripts for everything in the distro
bronze nexus
Fair
grand shadow
https://github.com/Mathewnd/Astral/pull/17
merged, tysm!
hearty fulcrum
'tism
grand shadow
:P
anyways, I am currently still mostly doing the mlibc demo os work and writing the guide but once I am done with the first part of it (at some point in the future I will implement the stuff needed for dynamic linking in that kernel) I will go back to working on astral
not yet dead project 💔
plus intel pmcs are bullshit and I will have to implement a driver for that
but the drivers are the only thing left to do
aside from the userspace program which is simple and a python parser which is also simple
then I probably try profiling a bit and making astral faster and after that its back on the page cache grind
I still have the nvme prp work to finish
marsh sparrow
did you look at the Managarm code the intel pmcs?
formal patio
the locale PR will not break ABI
speaking of, can somebody give that PR a thorough review pls? it seemed to work for dennis IF you comment out the freelocale function body
prime geyser
can i somehow change keyboard layouts
grand shadow
Not yet supported
I want to do that at some point since I also use a different one than en us
opal lotus
can you not change the xkb layout
grand shadow
Oh I thought he was talking about the console
opal lotus
idk if he is
formal patio
btw does it sound plausible that handling of VMIN/VTIME et al messes with OpenSSH on managarm?
grand shadow
btw does it sound plausible that handling of VMIN/VTIME et al messes with OpenSS...
I mean it could, IIRC I implement those correctly
But idk if openssh passes there
These*
sharp carbon
those settings for vmin/vtime seem like what any implementation that doesn't support them would comply with
allow read to unblock when 1 byte is available, no timeout
grand shadow
I am thinking of how I am going to handle NMIs
mostly the "before swapgs and after userspace irq/syscall" part
the only ideas I had so far were "checking if KERNEL_GSBASE points to a valid user address and swapping if not" and "checking if it happened on a specific range of instructions"
but both of these seem hacky
nmis are hacky grrr
or I ignore gsbase at all and use a combination of local apic id and iterating over every cpu struct
gritty shore
The solution is obviously to pretend NMIs never happen
grand shadow
The solution is obviously to pretend NMIs never happen
I am going to have a pmc nmi profiler so kinda cant
and I have to access cpu local data for that
analog berry
nmis are hacky grrr
Check out how Linux does it
tawny oak
mostly the "before swapgs and after userspace irq/syscall" part
if you have a dedicated stack for NMIs you can store some stuff on it, like the kernel gs base. You can swap it with whatever's currently in the msr, and restore it before exiting. (I think this was monkuous's idea?)
ah I didnt mean to ping you for that, sorry
marsh sparrow
Managarm does it by storing kernel GS on the NMI stack
And then it's loaded into current GS
marsh sparrow
And then it's loaded into current GS
Not through swapgs (because you can't be sure if the previous gs is kernel gs or user gs) but through wrmsr
And the previous GS is saved on the stack just like any other register
neon crane
Managarm does it by storing kernel GS on the NMI stack
so what do NMIs mean except "your hardware's fucked"
who fires NMIs
marsh sparrow
Managarm uses NMIs for kernel profiling
neon crane
i guess those are software NMIs? and also, what about real hardware?
marsh sparrow
no, the local apic performance monitoring interrupt triggers these
this also works on real hw
analog berry
so what do NMIs mean except "your hardware's fucked"
its not even "hardware fucked"
a lot of nmi events are used to notify the kernel about a corrected error
like memory/pci express
sharp carbon
so what do NMIs mean except "your hardware's fucked"
depends on whether you count MCs as NMIs
usually hardware errors are reported as MC but some would say MCs are NMIs
sharp carbon
watchdog timers and profiling are big ones
sharp carbon
well yeah other than MCs the only uses of NMIs that I'm aware of are software configured
so if your os doesn't configure anything that uses NMIs then the only ones applicable are MCs
neon crane
i see
grand shadow
Managarm does it by storing kernel GS on the NMI stack
Yeah thats smart
opal lotus
The solution is obviously to pretend NMIs never happen
i have an nmi button on my machine
opal lotus
same shit
prime geyser
i have an nmi button on my machine
whats that for-
marsh sparrow
causing an nmi presumably
prime geyser
makes sense
marsh sparrow
some servers have this (or have ways to trigger that from a management interface) so that you can test whether the server is still responding or not
gritty shore
@grand shadow https://www.reddit.com/r/osdev/comments/1oyuwpo/c_running_on_my_16_bit_operating_system/ what are your thoughts on this getting more upvotes than astral
gritty shore
ts pmo
hearty fulcrum
https://tenor.com/view/blade-runner-2049-gif-7993237219332977809
you just didn't have the word "skibidi" in the picture
grand shadow
so I am now rewriting astral it will be a 16 bit 8086 os that will have tralarero tralala and a liriliri larila app
wild marsh
based
grand shadow
I am thinking of how I am going to implement that NMI stuff without having per cpu idts
as it currently is I have a per cpu array of isrs and a single idt used for every cpu
so far my only idea that might work is checking if EFLAGS has interrupts disabled and doing the gs stuff if so
marsh sparrow
why do you need per CPU idts?
hearty fulcrum
as it currently is I have a per cpu array of isrs and a single idt used for ever...
same
grand shadow
why do you need per CPU idts?
I dont
I mostly need to figure out how to figure out I am running in a nmi before acessing per cpu data
and the only way I thought of was being interrupted with interrupts off
and the only places before swapgs have ints disabled anyways
marsh sparrow
i'm not sure if i understand the problem
in your NMI handler you obviously know that you're in an NMI
and you only need the load-gs-to-known-good logic in the NMI handler
grand shadow
yeah but that would need per cpu idts no? unless I have a fixed interrupt number in each cpu be the profiling nmi
since at start I set up each idt entry pointing to a small stub that saves one register and puts the int number there and then jumps into the rest of the interrupt ocde
and the per cpu interrupt stuff is handled in the architecture independent stuff
grand shadow
yeah but that would need per cpu idts no? unless I have a fixed interrupt number...
I guess I could do that but that feels hacky
grand shadow
oh it is?
well TIL
so to figure out if a profiling irq is happening I gotta check some apic registers there
oh I am blind
I had the intel sdm open and didnt notice it said that
💀
grand shadow
Oh hmm
marsh sparrow
Hm? What's that
analog berry
builtin profiler
looks pretty good
saw it over at serenity os discord
looks pretty good
no need for any sort of kernel support
proper meteor
I developed mine ( https://github.com/maestro-os/kern-profile ) which generates a flamegraph, but it's broken rn and the above seems to look better so I guess I'll have a try
grand shadow
Oh thats cool
pine ledge
<@215823874615541761> https://www.reddit.com/r/osdev/comments/1oyuwpo/c_running_...
Those Reddit fucks are so dumb
sharp carbon
:)
sharp carbon
turns out the issue wasn't in astral or mlibc or anywhere else
the mod in question was just badly written and expected process work dir == game dir
adjusting the launch script fixed it
grand shadow
@analog berry CHECK THIS OUT
sharp carbon
yeah but 1-3 FPS on the literal lowest settings possible in a fresh world?
grand shadow
I mean yeah
I should get the kernel profiler finished already
or use the qemu one
sharp carbon
I mean yeah
i ran it on my host with the same settings as a comparison
radeon: 2800-3100 FPS
llvmpipe (16 threads): 100-110 FPS
llvmpipe (1 thread, aka same as astral): 20-40 FPS
grand shadow
hmm yeah something is defo messing it up
I plan on doing some profiling once all that infrastructure is done
but it might be memory stuff, my vmm is kinda shit
linked list vmm 🥀 💔
analog berry
yeah but 1-3 FPS on the literal lowest settings possible in a fresh world?
Naah its not that bad until late game
analog berry
or use the qemu one
This
grand shadow
I plan on writing an iterative rbtree implementation at some point to use in the vmm
young chasm
i ran it on my host with the same settings as a comparison
radeon: 2800-3100 FPS...
what about 16 thread llvmpipe on astral? or is there a problem with it
sharp carbon
on astral llvmpipe gets slower with more threads
the theory is that it's caused by tlb shootdowns
young chasm
ah okay :D
grand shadow
I do one shootdown per munmap(), does linux do something else?
I know you can batch them kernel side but user side is not safe
and only on multithreaded processes and only when there are cpus running those threads etc
bronze nexus
gregtech is laggy even on my main computer sometimes 💀
Early game should be fine, a fresh world's only lag should be the chunk generation initially
young chasm
on astral llvmpipe gets slower with more threads
is this only on minecraft or all software using llvmpipe
sharp carbon
is this only on minecraft or all software using llvmpipe
i tested it with glxgears
deft oak
I do one shootdown per munmap(), does linux do something else?
#1061407633745125397 message
young chasm
i doubt its tlb shootdowns as i literally do one on all cores on all mmaps/munmaps and at least on halflife gets significant boost when multithreaded
grand shadow
ughh Id have to rebuild qemu to use that
grand shadow
i doubt its tlb shootdowns as i literally do one on all cores on all mmaps/munma...
yeah I will only know for certain if I profile it
I dont think I will have a lot of time this weekend
sharp carbon
looked at gtnh performance with mc's builtin profiler and it looks like ~70% of the frame time is journeymap and the hud text
sharp carbon
when hiding the hud with f1 i get what feels like 30-40 FPS
grand shadow
looked at gtnh performance with mc's builtin profiler and it looks like ~70% of ...
wtf
how is text so expensive
grand shadow
galacticraft astral when
gtnh has that
sharp carbon
minecraft does have a notoriously terrible font renderer
sharp carbon
galacticraft astral when
you were saying?
viscid flame
you were saying?
🤯
analog berry
you were saying?
Ah yes tier 8 rocket, only 2k hours to reach
Check out the crafting recipes for each component
viscid flame
Check out the crafting recipes for each component
galacticraft experience is pain
analog berry
Gnth galacticraft is basically rewritten from scratch
Every planet is useful since it contains new tier ores etc
grand shadow
Wonder if some of the lag could also be me missing something like sched_yield
Since I have seen mc complain a lot about it missing
At least a1.2.6
grand shadow
Wonder if some of the lag could also be me missing something like sched_yield
The syscall not the scheduler function
sharp carbon
Wonder if some of the lag could also be me missing something like sched_yield
i made that a no-op in mlibc a while ago because it was printing an error message each frame
but it shouldn't affect performance
well the removal of the error message would affect performance but i'm not sure by how much
sharp carbon
Maybe grab a super quick profile with that qemu option?
does that work on kvm?
analog berry
Good question
grand shadow
Maybe grab a super quick profile with that qemu option?
That needs a qemu recompile I think?
Idk if distros ship that
analog berry
They dont seem to mention if its compatible with kvm I think
marsh sparrow
it seems to be a plugin, not part of core qemu
analog berry
Yeah it needs building separately it seems
grand shadow
@sharp carbon are you running with the same amount of memory in xmx and xms?
When I ran it with the same it got much faster on alpha
Or at least felt like so
sharp carbon
I'm not explicitly passing either
it's auto detecting xmx as 8G (1/4th of total guest memory) but I'm not sure what it's using as xms
grand shadow
I wish I had more free time to work on stuff Im gonna be out until sunday 💀
I can maybe get a thing or two done maybe
Since I still have to do more work on the mlibc demo os
I envy the kids who have 5 trillions hours of free time to do this shit
grand shadow
Just make astral that os
So true
I somehow got myself into maintaining an os written in a language I dont know for an architecture I dont know
prime mulch
I somehow got myself into maintaining an os written in a language I dont know fo...
Which one is that
grand shadow
Which one is that
mlibc-demo-os
Just a basic super bare bones thing
Written in rust for rv64
marsh sparrow
I somehow got myself into maintaining an os written in a language I dont know fo...
all i'm hearing is: i got to the opportunity to step outside my comfort zone
analog berry
to be fair rv64 is way simpler than x86
bronze nexus
RV64 is way easier to deal with than x86
Its entire privilege model is so much simpler
sage locust
https://www.qemu.org/docs/master/about/emulation.html#uftrace
wtf nice
analog berry
nice
sage locust
analog berry
can you find out why astral minecraft is so slow now
neon crane
what is this exactly?
analog berry
a flamegraph
sage locust
a flamegraph
neon crane
a flamegraph
i mean of course
but what program visualizes and creates said flamegraph
sage locust
qemu/uftrace/perfetto
viscid flame
Wonder if some of the lag could also be me missing something like sched_yield
how much you give processor time to processes
opal lotus
how does this work
sharp carbon
how does this work
my guess is that it integrates with TCG to add profiling hooks to ebp changes
or to call/ret instructions maybe
wraith surge
my guess is that it integrates with TCG to add profiling hooks to ebp changes
you can also use clang profiling in your kernel directly
and send data via serial
opal lotus
i gotta try this
grand shadow
how much you give processor time to processes
Like 10 I think
neon crane
Like 10 I think
10 what?
hearty fulcrum
gigaseconds
grand shadow
Ms
grand shadow
But I dont think it matters unless java implements their own locks in userspace
Maybe
prime mulch
That sounds like it would make things worse
prime mulch
But I dont think it matters unless java implements their own locks in userspace
Oh dude implement a yield, if its using it there's probably a good reason
neon crane
tbh 10ms means 100 threads can execute code. 1ms means 1000 threads can execute code, but they have less time per quantum which could affect performance
grand shadow
Oh dude implement a yield, if its using it there's probably a good reason
I guess, I have it in kernel so its just hooking it up to userspace
prime mulch
tbh 10ms means 100 threads can execute code. 1ms means 1000 threads can execute ...
If you're in a situation where this matters you're fucked
No scheduler is designed to deal with 1000 simultaneous ready threads with good responsiveness for all of them
You're not supposed to use the OS like that as an application programmer
neon crane
true
viscid flame
I guess, I have it in kernel so its just hooking it up to userspace
yes
#nocputimewaste
prime mulch
You're supposed to have 1000 blocked threads and like, a couple dozen ready threads tops and that's on a system with lots of cores
neon crane
I agree
neon crane
I guess, I have it in kernel so its just hooking it up to userspace
Do it
hearty fulcrum
sharp carbon
Oh dude implement a yield, if its using it there's probably a good reason
you mean sched_yield? minecraft just calls this for no reason in the middle of the game loop
it's not used for locks or anything
willow rapids
you mean `sched_yield`? minecraft just calls this for no reason in the middle of...
No way
prime mulch
lol this worked
great now the bar for when ill feel comfortable making a post about my thing anywhere is when it runs minecraft too
otherwise thyll just go
"but does it run minecraft? did you hear about the one that runs minerat?"
(thats a compliment, youve raised the bar from just having a pretty window server to running something grand like this)
formal patio
Kernel shells are not enough any more? That's news
Would be good news if true
But it isn't 
midnight stone
This chat feeling like accidentally entering nvidia instead of Microsoft
gritty shore
lol this worked
I truly am a master baiter
sage locust
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45958988#46005035
upvoted!
sage locust
I truly am a master baiter
do you have one for Ironclad? :p
gritty shore
do you have one for Ironclad? :p
Well ironclad is already pretty well known on HN no?
sage locust
probably
neon crane
@grand shadow hey do you handle arrow keys in your kernel terminal? (so that you write to different positions within the line buffer)
grand shadow
<@215823874615541761> hey do you handle arrow keys in your kernel terminal? (so ...
nope, that is userspace's job if they want it
at most it does cooked mode
neon crane
yeah, in cooked/canonical mode I mean
neon crane
yeah in cooked mode you dont do that
im sorry what
i guess you only handle backspace/vkill/veol/veof
in canonical mode i believe you're supposed to implement the entire line reading logic including arrow keys and vkill/vwerase/verase
prime mulch
nope
type cat in a shell with no arguments, thatll give you a pure cooked mode input
type arrow keys and see what happens
prime mulch
the shell goes into raw mode and handles the arrow keys itself
neon crane
wow
prime mulch
implements its own line editing
neon crane
i actually didnt think it worked like that
so the normal canonical mode line buffering ONLY implements backspace/vwerase/vkill
what if i implement it anyway
(nah jk)
grand shadow
yeah its why libreadline exists
grand shadow
Wait does mlibc build with debug by default
If so I have been running on debug mlibc with O0 this whole time
sage locust
i actually wanted to make a PR to change that to debugoptimized by default
which is like -O2 -g
all of my meson projects (and autotools) default to that
wraith surge
Maybe thats why some stuff was slow
how fast is mc with release?
grand shadow
No idea havent tested currently getting a riscv64 toolchain to build mlibc
Which is where I noticed the O0
grand shadow
i actually wanted to make a PR to change that to debugoptimized by default
Probably will do that then
sage locust
i am doing it rn
grand shadow
Oh I meant like on astral's meson recipes
sage locust
@grand shadow in your 1528 PR, is it actually related to the PR's aim to use sys_ioctl instead of ioctl, or is it just an optimisation?
grand shadow
<@215823874615541761> in your 1528 PR, is it actually related to the PR's aim to...
actually related
sage locust
because i thought ioctl() was POSIX?
grand shadow
sys/ioctl.h is under the glibc option
sage locust
is it supposed to be? that's weird
sage locust
wait what the fuck? ioctl() isn't POSIX? literally unironically unusable
grand shadow
posix_devctl
yeah it just so happens everyone implements ioctl() but its not standardized
sage locust
what's the diff between mempcpy and memcpy again?
is it really just that mempcpy returns the end of the buffer?
what a useless function
grand shadow
is it really just that mempcpy returns the end of the buffer?
Yeah
grand shadow
dest it returns a pointer to the byte following the last written byte.```
fleet osprey
who unironically uses the return value of a memcpy anyways
fleet osprey
who unironically uses the return value of a `memcpy` anyways
you could probably return void and not break like 98% of software
wraith surge
you could probably return void and not break like 98% of software
99.9%*
young chasm
wait what the fuck? ioctl() isn't POSIX? literally unironically unusable
it was but it was removed replaced by posix_devctl in the latest issue (in stropts.h)
or well it was an extension or whatever (OB XSR)
grand shadow
oh true they define what happens on ioctl on STREAMS
and anything else is undefined as usual
gritty shore
and not a lot of people implement STREAMS so 
carmine swallow
you could probably return void and not break like 98% of software
it breaks compiler-generated code, I have seen the compiler use the return value of the mem functions
carmine swallow
well it kinda makes sense like if the variable is in rdi or whatever before then it gets clobbered by the call so then the compiler can just continue using the variable as rax without needing to save it to the stack
night trellis
why does astral need debootstrap to build
i dont want debian packages on my arch system
sage locust
the latest Jinx version fetches debootstrap on its own, and also, what's the issue? the packages are kept locally confined to a directory (usually inside the repo itself)
namely .jinx-cache
night trellis
the latest Jinx version fetches debootstrap on its own, and also, what's the iss...
will it extract to my root
sage locust
no
night trellis
ah
sage locust
obviously not
it doesn't even have root permissions
it creates a container, kind of like Docker
night trellis
interesting
grand shadow
the latest Jinx version fetches debootstrap on its own, and also, what's the iss...
Yeah I am still on a super old jinx
Last time I tried it just would not work
But its been a while so that weird bug might be fixed
grand shadow
I do wonder hiww much difference building with O2 will do compared with O0 💀
Insane that I never noticed that
sage locust
Last time I tried it just would not work
what wouldn't work?
sharp carbon
Wait does mlibc build with debug by default
Usually yes but you add -O2 with CFLAGS in Jinxfile
opal lotus
wait what the fuck? ioctl() isn't POSIX? literally unironically unusable
it used to be until posix 2024
posix_devctl can be made a wrapper around it with size = 0
i don't get it either
grand shadow
Usually yes but you add -O2 with CFLAGS in Jinxfile
Ninja -v didnt show O2 weirdly enough
sharp carbon
My build.ninja lists every source file as being compiled with -O0 ... -O2 and checking the disassembly the O2 is what's actually being used
grand shadow
@sage locust this
grand shadow
My build.ninja lists every source file as being compiled with `-O0 ... -O2` and ...
Oh huh interesting
Maybe I missed it then
sage locust
i mean if your CFLAGS have -O2, then that should override the -O0, yeah
grand shadow
I also should probably update my gcc I am still on 12.1
hope eventually jumping to gcc 15 doesnt expose some evil ub in the kernel that gcc 12 did not catch
fleet osprey
bad news: GCC 15 starts building stuff with a newer C standard by default
everything breaks
(unless you specify -std= manually)
might not expose UB specifically, but likely stuff will break
young chasm
hope eventually jumping to gcc 15 doesnt expose some evil ub in the kernel that ...
my jump to gcc 15 exposed compiler bugs in it :)
grand shadow
my jump to gcc 15 exposed compiler bugs in it :)
what was the bug btw
young chasm
internal compiler error on valid code
let me look it up
some c++ mess
https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=120800
grand shadow
insane 💀
neon crane
jumping to gcc 13 instead because thats the earliest one supported by mlibc <:me...
make sure to remove dbxelf.h from your patch
they removed it sometime between 12.1 and 13.1
grand shadow
hmm I know I have a lot of stuff to do but I should try tdoing something very funny
trying to compile binutils + gcc + mlibc + whatever other packages I want into a sysroot and see how far it gets
currently git cloned mlibc + astral and downloading gcc and binutils tarballk
grand shadow
it died while extracting the gcc tarball when syncing a page 🥀
night trellis
Im tempted to port Qt to this
grand shadow
Im tempted to port Qt to this
Shouldnt be too difficult, prs always welcome :)
proper meteor
it died while extracting the gcc tarball when syncing a page 🥀
weren't you able to do that in the past?
grand shadow
weren't you able to do that in the past?
I put the source in the sysroot in the past but this time its actually extracting it
grand shadow
It git cloned astral mlibc and downloaded and extracted bintuils and then died when extraccting the gcc tarball
grand shadow
Maestro can extract it but slowly
Mine is probably a page cache race condition
I thought I had fixed it but doesnt seem like it
Gdb didnt help cuz it optimized it out
night trellis
Shouldnt be too difficult, prs always welcome :)
to be specific the latest qt
prime juniper
Qt builds fine on mlibc and is portable (assuming Qt6, source: managarm has it)
grand shadow
Oh yeah if managarm has it astral can probably run it
viscid flame
Qt builds fine on mlibc and is portable (assuming Qt6, source: managarm has it)
how much qt6 require dependencies
prime juniper
- mlibc
- zlib
- zstd
- pcre2
- double-conversion
- libiconv
- icu
- glib
- libxkbcommon
- libinput
- libevdev
- mtdev
- mesa
- freetype
- fontconfig
- libpng
- harfbuzz
- libx11
- libjpeg-turbo
- libsm
- libice
- libdrm
- libxcb
- xcb-util-image
- xcb-util-keysyms
- xcb-util-wm
- xcb-util-render-util
- xcb-util-cursor
- openssl
- wayland
- wayland-protocols
- libxcursor
- libxinerama
- libxrender
- libxi
- sqlite
- brotli
- dbus
- at-spi2-core
and the transitive stuff
now the good part, big chunks are optional
so
viscid flame
```yml
- mlibc
- zlib
- zstd
- pcre2
- double-conversion...
i thought there will be a much more dependencies
prime juniper
dbus can be turned off, the entire X stack and graphics can be removed if not building GUI, same for wayland. sqlite is optional, glib and icu can be turned off, we dep on systemd for udev, but that can be turned off, so libinput, libevdev and mtdev likely have replacements / support replacing it, pcre2 is technically optional too, openssl is optional too
prime juniper
i thought there will be a much more dependencies
you must note that anything that they depend on is available too, so iirc its like 90ish packages that are installed for managarm?
and this is only qtbase of course
so if you want qml and friends, you need qtdeclarative too
(which pulls in some more qt parts but not massive pain)
and maybe the deps have changed, this is accurate for Qt 6.8.1
grand shadow
dead project xd
(yesterday I wrote some more stuff for the profiling stuff)
since the mlibc demo pr is now in reviewing and I think I'm done with that until I want to add dynamic loading support
night trellis
i wanna make a package manager for astral
wait.
does astral even have networking
lmao
neon crane
does astral even have networking
i'm pretty sure it does
grand shadow
can i build packages for it though
wdym
night trellis
i kinda wanna port pipewire and pulseaudio to astral too
but since those rely on ALSA i think i may have to do workarounds
grand shadow
theres no working audio driver :P
qwinci was working on hda + oss at one point but I think that got lost in branch limbo
grand shadow
I've gotten the nmi out of intel pmcs and I just gotta finish the nmi logic (ist + shoving the cpu pointer there)
night trellis
theres no working audio driver :P
i know im like asking alot but like can i port ALSA
ik ALSA's specifically for linux
ill port alsa and then miniaudio
then pipewire
and wyaland
im just obsessed with astral ig :3
grand shadow
I mean if u can make it work sure
night trellis
I mean if u can make it work sure
:3
can i fork astral though because those 3 are gonna be tedious to port
might aswell test it on my own astral fork and then see if its cool to release to the main astral pkgs
dense valve
I think you should list all the required tools to build Astral in the README, such as building Astral requiring the host to have fakechroot and debootstrap. Not necessarily needed, but I think it's nice to have
grand shadow
Yeah, I should put a link to the jinx dependencies of the commit I use at one point
dense valve
👍
carmine swallow
can i fork astral though because those 3 are gonna be tedious to port
They aren't really bad at all, the bad part is that alsa fucking sucks and writing the driver part for it is a huge pain (because of the parameter refining stuff alsa has, if you get that incorrect the userspace alsalib will complain)
or well idk about miniaudio but alsa isn't bad, libpulse should require no porting and pipewire only light patching
marsh sparrow
i know im like asking alot but like can i port ALSA
Not sure if you're aware of that or not but you do need drivers in the kernel to make ALSA etc work
night trellis
They aren't really bad at all, the bad part is that alsa fucking sucks and writi...
oo
night trellis
Not sure if you're aware of that or not but you do need drivers in the kernel to...
i know
grand shadow
@marsh sparrow on the managarm profiler, is there a reason other than simplicity as to why you chose to only trace the rip and not a full stack trace?
marsh sparrow
only simplicity. Taking a full stack trace would also be nice
grand shadow
Ahh I might just do a full trace then