grand shadow Nov 6, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

yeah there are some graphical glitches even when sshing into it form the windows tty but its playable

#

cc @prime juniper should hopefully have the stuff for vlc upstream tomorrow

prime juniper Nov 6, 2025, 6:37 AM

#

Nice

sage locust Nov 6, 2025, 8:48 AM

#

try on Flanterm

neon crane Nov 6, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

@grand shadow i also didnt realize it but apparently you ported Wine too??

#

this is seriously awesome

#

congrats man

#

(but can you please fix the Memory: MiB / MiB string)

grand shadow Nov 6, 2025, 7:26 PM

#

It """""""works""""""" (only runs some simple shit like notepad and cmd)

grand shadow Nov 6, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

neon crane (but can you please fix the Memory: MiB / MiB string)

#

I need to implement /proc or a similar system call

#

At one point I was looking into 32 bit wine as well for playing cogmind but never went too far

#

So much to do and so little time to do it

grand shadow Nov 6, 2025, 10:13 PM

#

if I really want to get astral popular I should just convert to some religion and call astral the new temple of it or some buillshit

wild marsh Nov 6, 2025, 10:55 PM

#

god told me to build the 4th temple that will this time run minecraft under fvwm

grand shadow Nov 6, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

the os will be a holy ground to run minecraft and build the temple inside it

prime geyser Nov 7, 2025, 12:21 AM

#

is there something preventing modern minecraft from running?

wraith surge Nov 7, 2025, 12:36 AM

#

prime geyser is there something preventing modern minecraft from running?

more syscalls prob

#

and the modern libs

grand shadow Nov 7, 2025, 1:39 AM

#

I dont think so other than porting the newer libs

#

java itself works perfectly so

grand shadow Nov 7, 2025, 4:13 PM

#

the r/kerneldevelopment post passed the r/osdev one by far now 💀

#

708 vs 668

pine ledge Nov 7, 2025, 5:52 PM

#

grand shadow the r/kerneldevelopment post passed the r/osdev one by far now 💀

Reddit is brain food for dumbasses who think they’re smart 😭

grand shadow Nov 7, 2025, 7:25 PM

#

Real

#

Anyways, I still gotta fix that writer deadlock from before I got in that small minecraft side quest

#

And possibly I should already start desigining the rewrite of the page cache

pine ledge Nov 7, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

Yeah I gotta rewrite mine too pensivewooble

grand shadow Nov 7, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

I could probably speed it up a bunch by doing clustered page in/page out and read ahead

#

As it stands syncing takes a long time, but I do have a lot of the needed kernel infrastructure to do scatter gather i/o nicely

gritty shore Nov 7, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

@grand shadow you should definitely try posting on hackernews again, check this out:

#

same post but a day later and now it's on the front page

grand shadow Nov 7, 2025, 11:47 PM

#

Hmm sure

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 5:17 AM

#

that bug was me forgetting to unlock a vnode in the rename function for ext2 and fatfs

#

oops

#

for 1.7.10 minecraft it seems like you need more than just lwjgl

#

Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/google/common/collect/Multimap

#

jesus christ you need so many libraries

#

idk who it was who said it only needed lwjgl but you are wrong

marsh sparrow Nov 8, 2025, 8:42 AM

#

which MC version did you run before?

robust geyser Nov 8, 2025, 8:55 AM

#

some alpha version i think

marsh sparrow Nov 8, 2025, 9:06 AM

#

and that only needed lwjgl?

#

modern MC needs way more libs, but most are probably java only

#

$ find ~/.minecraft/libraries/ -type f | wc -l
70

sharp carbon Nov 8, 2025, 12:17 PM

#

grand shadow for 1.7.10 minecraft it seems like you need more than just lwjgl

yeah but there are no new native libraries

#

that's what i meant

#

they're the important ones since most pure-java libraries need no porting and even the ones that do need porting usually only need minimal changes

prime geyser Nov 8, 2025, 12:31 PM

#

grand shadow for 1.7.10 minecraft it seems like you need more than just lwjgl

if it runs 1.5.2 (or maybe 1.7.10 someday) I’m happy

prime juniper Nov 8, 2025, 1:14 PM

#

I have it on the todo list

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 3:54 PM

#

sharp carbon yeah but there are no new native libraries

Ah

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 3:54 PM

#

marsh sparrow ``` $ find ~/.minecraft/libraries/ -type f | wc -l 70 ```

Jesus christ

proper meteor Nov 8, 2025, 3:55 PM

#

astral on a cubesat when

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 4:27 PM

#

proper meteor astral on a cubesat when

Get me into a contract with one of these companies and can be done meme

proper meteor Nov 8, 2025, 4:28 PM

#

grand shadow Get me into a contract with one of these companies and can be done <:meme:575445...

doesn't your uni have something to send a cubesat?

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 4:29 PM

#

proper meteor doesn't your uni have something to send a cubesat?

Bro I live in brazil

#

I wish but no

proper meteor Nov 8, 2025, 4:31 PM

#

grand shadow Bro I live in brazil

move to italy then idk halfmemeright

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 4:32 PM

#

proper meteor move to italy then idk <:halfmemeright:715831702164996096>

Talk is cheap send money

proper meteor Nov 8, 2025, 4:33 PM

#

grand shadow Talk is cheap send money

no u

grand shadow Nov 8, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

Also minecraft does go into fullscreen if you press f11

winged basin Nov 8, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

incredible progress btw

#

without question astral is the toast of the community

analog berry Nov 8, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

grand shadow Talk is cheap send money

Money is cheap, send talks

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 1:06 AM

#

i think astral is a lot cooler than those *also cool managarm people

#

astral also isnt as awkward to pronounce

sage locust Nov 9, 2025, 1:35 AM

#

so true so real

stone oracle Nov 9, 2025, 5:39 AM

#

prime geyser astral also isnt as awkward to pronounce

If only you aren't dirty minded. 😏

marsh sparrow Nov 9, 2025, 7:58 AM

#

prime geyser i think astral is a lot cooler than those *also cool managarm people

Weird Managarm people?

neon crane Nov 9, 2025, 8:13 AM

#

prime geyser i think astral is a lot cooler than those *also cool managarm people

believe it or not, those "weird managarm people" are the reason astral can run so much cool software

sage locust Nov 9, 2025, 8:23 AM

#

prime geyser i think astral is a lot cooler than those *also cool managarm people

what prompted this anyways?

prime juniper Nov 9, 2025, 8:44 AM

#

Seems like low effort ragebait ngl. But in case of real: bro forgets that most of the new generation of projects (let’s say started in the last 4-5 years) use at least one of if not all of the following: limine, uACPI, mlibc. I’d say that those three projects are the cornerstones of (modern?) hobby OSDev

marsh sparrow Nov 9, 2025, 8:54 AM

#

Astral of course does deserve all the credit for debugging MC and Java and also for contributing back the changes so that everybody can benefit

#

but it's just rude to call ppl weird while most of them are present in this thread lol

hearty fulcrum Nov 9, 2025, 9:02 AM

#

limine+flanterm+uacpi+mlibc

#

osdev starter pack

#

and frigg if you're cool enough

neon crane Nov 9, 2025, 9:45 AM

#

hearty fulcrum limine+flanterm+uacpi+mlibc

this is completely true

#

i actually happen to use two of these (for the 64-bit build) and one (for the 32-bit build)

#

and soon to be a third (mlibc)

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 10:52 AM

#

prime juniper Seems like low effort ragebait ngl. But in case of real: bro forgets that most o...

hmm maybe it is pretty cool then
I apologise for calling the managarm people weird

analog berry Nov 9, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

prime geyser hmm maybe it is pretty cool then I apologise for calling the managarm people we...

Why did you think they were weird tho, what made you say it

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

the real answer is unhinged 3am posting when I shouldn’t be ..

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 11:22 AM

#

Oh no

#

(trying to run on UTM, which should just be a qemu wrapper?)

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 3:47 PM

#

Whag the fuck

#

That vm has no kvm timer, no invartiant tac and no hpet

#

Maybe pass -M q35

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 3:59 PM

#

I think it should be q35?

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 4:03 PM

#

grand shadow That vm has no kvm timer, no invartiant tac and no hpet

📎 Cursed_vm_qemu_args.txt.txt

#

it passes hpet=off, huh

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 4:29 PM

#

Getting a bit further with hpet=on

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:00 PM

#

Huh it got stuck in ps2 init

#

Hmmm

#

My ps2 driver is a bit bad so I will save these flags to make it a bit better

#

But for now, I could give you a known good cmdline

#

qemu-system-x86_64 -M q35 -m 2g -smp cpus=2 -serial stdio -netdev user,id=net0 -device virtio-net,netdev=net0 -cdrom bootdisk.iso -drive file=root.img,if=none,id=nvme -device virtio-blk,serial=deadc0ff,drive=nvme -boot dc -enable-kvm -cpu host,migratable=off

#

If you dont have root.img remove the -drive and -device virtio-blk options

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

unfortunately it doesnt give me full control of the cmdline 😩

#

#

Forcing the ps/2 controller, whatever that toggle switch means

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

grand shadow If you dont have root.img remove the -drive and -device virtio-blk options

I think this is the next thing to do then

#

adding root.img

neon crane Nov 9, 2025, 5:20 PM

#

grand shadow My ps2 driver is a bit bad so I will save these flags to make it a bit better

where do you initialize the ps2 controller

#

also i suppose you should use either tabs or spaces and not both

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:21 PM

#

Wtf

neon crane Nov 9, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

neon crane where do you initialize the ps2 controller

nvm i found it, i guess io/keyboard.c is the generic keyboard driver

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

I haave no idea why that code is like that

#

Since I use tabs

neon crane Nov 9, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

someone used spaces to specifically add those lines

#

looks like it was you though

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

Maybe my vim config was bad or smth

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

prime geyser adding root.img

Its downlowadable in https://astral-os.org/releases I think

#

Yeah that website

analog berry Nov 9, 2025, 5:50 PM

#

grand shadow Huh it got stuck in ps2 init

Bruh imagine having a ps2 driver so bad it hangs on qemu KEKW

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 5:53 PM

#

analog berry Bruh imagine having a ps2 driver so bad it hangs on qemu <:KEKW:9137083723296440...

😭

#

Talk is cheap send patches

#

Tbf, if it is an old version of qemu then there was a bug that caused bad stuff to happen in ps2

#

A qemu bug

#

I ran into it in old astral

marsh sparrow Nov 9, 2025, 6:19 PM

#

Ps2 is not that easy to drive in general

#

If you want to support more than just the trivial cases

#

since the controller is quite braindead

analog berry Nov 9, 2025, 6:45 PM

#

marsh sparrow If you want to support more than just the trivial cases

What are non trivial cases in ps2

analog berry Nov 9, 2025, 6:45 PM

#

grand shadow Talk is cheap send patches

Eventually chad

prime geyser Nov 9, 2025, 7:07 PM

#

Heh, neat
I got it running on iOS (no root.img yet tho)

#

and keyboard doesn’t quite work yet

marsh sparrow Nov 9, 2025, 7:38 PM

#

analog berry What are non trivial cases in ps2

Mostly that the controller is braindead and for example you can't submit commands and receive input at the same time in all cases

#

etc

analog berry Nov 9, 2025, 7:44 PM

#

the controller is incredibly bad yeah

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

Also yippe the thread hit 100 stars

prime juniper Nov 9, 2025, 8:33 PM

#

Managarm only has 11 :(

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 9:49 PM

#

@winged basin I have a question since you are more in the know about bsd stuff, can epoll be fully emulated by kqueue?

winged basin Nov 9, 2025, 9:53 PM

#

grand shadow <@391791686881247234> I have a question since you are more in the know about bsd...

yes with a few provisos: 1) with epoll under certain circumstances you can close an FD but still have events delivered in respect of it, with kqueue you cannot; 2) epoll instances are inherited after fork, kqueues are not, freebsd just implemented a copy-on-fork feature which they found to be an adequate substitute; 3) there are subtleties around how the ancillary FDs used with epoll, like signalfd, work and these can't quite be fully emulated without implementing all these ancillary FDs too

#

or in short, you can implement epoll in terms of kqueue so well that i can't think of a single piece of linux software which won't work perfectly, and this has been the experience of freebsd

#

BUT it's not possible to be "bug-compatible" (or rather "weirdness-compatible")

#

this has not yet been a problem on freebsd for such diverse software as wayland and family, chromium, firefox, etc

grand shadow Nov 9, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

Hmmm thanks!

#

I might implement kqueue or something similar instead of epoll in the future

tulip zinc Nov 10, 2025, 12:42 AM

#

prime juniper Managarm only has 11 :(

12 now

prime geyser Nov 10, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

me omw to contribute to astral to fix a bug (i noticed that its not entirely clear if the GDT init is ok, that needs fixing)

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 1:12 AM

#

gtd init... 🥀

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 4:00 AM

#

maybe it is time to start working on the infrastructure for the pagecache rewrite + clustered pagein/pageout

#

mostly making disk and fs drivers more friendly to reading sequential blocks

#

I already have an idea of how I am going to do the new page cache kind of,
I will keep the LRU standby list
I will switch out the dirty page list for dirty vnode list and keep an ordered singly linked list of dirty pages in each vnode
I will switch out the page hash table (which was inspired by the way SVR4 did it) into a per vnode radix tree like linux does

#

actually hm

#

if I wanted to save memory at the cost of some speed I could not have the dirty page list and just use the radix tree for that

#

wait nvm

#

that would be stupid

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 4:27 AM

#

I do have to change how I handle stuff in the virtio block driver

#

currently it is read page by page, but I want to coalesce the entire read/write (even the non adjacent blocks) into a single operation

#

and since there are a limited number of entries in the queues, I would have to do some sort of special allocation for it

#

like "wait until n number of entries are free" while trying to maintain fairness

#

for the nvme driver I dont think major changes are needed other than properly doing the prp stuff

#

wonder if there is a way to easily calculate the number of pages used for the prp for the number of dma pages

#

if theres no formula out there I could try to find it

#

meh I dont think the cost of looping a few times to figure that out is going to cost a lot compared to a disk operation

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 5:13 AM

#

either way, all of this work that I will have to do is because I did not do it the proper way at first soo

#

actions have consequences

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 5:32 AM

#

@sage locust btw, since you had asked about it, brogue does work perfectly fine on flanterm

#

and its pretty playable (though neither the arrow keys nor the numpad arrow keys work)

#

so you have to use hjkl

sage locust Nov 10, 2025, 5:39 AM

#

damn that's really cool!

#

thanks for sharing

grand shadow Nov 10, 2025, 5:41 AM

#

oh right, numpad does work I just had numlock on

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 12:06 AM

#

Doing some nvme prp work

wild marsh Nov 11, 2025, 12:07 AM

#

grand shadow and its pretty playable (though neither the arrow keys nor the numpad arrow keys...

why are the buttons trans

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 12:09 AM

#

I think my list of things to do will be

finish prp stuff
do proper virtio descriptor allocation stuff
make fatfs and ext2 more friendly to i/o on adjacent clusters/blocks
turn vop_*page into vop_*pages
start actually rewriting the pagecache

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 12:09 AM

#

wild marsh why are the buttons trans

I think flanterm doesnt implement all xterm-256color colours

#

Mint probably knows that better

sage locust Nov 11, 2025, 12:09 AM

#

it does

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 12:10 AM

#

Oh interesting

sage locust Nov 11, 2025, 12:10 AM

#

or at least it should

#

it's probably because of TERM=linux or something

#

we should add our own TERM=flanterm to ncurses ngl

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 12:12 AM

#

Honestly true

#

Do they even accept prs about that

gritty shore Nov 11, 2025, 12:31 AM

#

isnt it a terminfo thing?

sage locust Nov 11, 2025, 1:20 AM

#

well

#

isn't terminfo provided by ncurses?

gritty shore Nov 11, 2025, 1:25 AM

#

Ah didn't know that

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:32 AM

#

ran into an iovec iterator bug

#

something is calling writev with one of the iov having count = 0

#

3 iovs

#

count = 0
count = 512
count = 0

#

which I suppose is valid

#

but my code didnt account for that

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 5:42 AM

#

I found an alpha 1.2.6 server and alpha 1.2.6 starts, lets see if this thing can connect to it

#

damn

#

could be cuz I'm not doing mojang auth stuff

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 6:18 AM

#

Why do u need such an old version tho

#

Arent the new deps java only?

willow rapids Nov 11, 2025, 6:31 AM

#

grand shadow damn

can you log into it from your host?

hearty fulcrum Nov 11, 2025, 6:32 AM

#

grand shadow could be cuz I'm not doing mojang auth stuff

can't you disable online mode?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 6:40 AM

#

analog berry Arent the new deps java only?

Lazy to download 50 trillion deps

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 6:40 AM

#

hearty fulcrum can't you disable online mode?

Not my server

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 1:57 PM

#

grand shadow Lazy to download 50 trillion deps

just port prism launcher

#

ez

#

i think it's qt it shouldn't be that bad

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:02 PM

#

Real

#

Maybe Ill look into it after the pagecache work

#

As it stands i/o is still way too slow for general uso

#

Use

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 2:05 PM

#

who needs page cache

#

just store everything in ram always

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:06 PM

#

Same thing troll

#

My tmpfs uses the page cache as a backing

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:32 PM

#

Right now the biggest issue is making the page cache and disk contents stay coherent during non cached i/o
With the way it currently works doing it page by page its not too difficult, but I cant do page by page when clustering

#

And I cant just issue a direct disk write directly without making the caches be unsynchronized

#

And I dont want to leave unused pages in the page cache (duplicate data!)

#

I am thinking of maybe making some page cache functions take a hint argument, that will let the caller control if/how clustering is done

#

This could also allow for a proper implementation of madvise later

#

But Idk if this is the best way of approaching it

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:36 PM

#

Disabling USB did it

I can now type

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:36 PM

#

Real

viscid flame Nov 11, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

astral usb when

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

Makes sense as there is no usb in astral

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:38 PM

#

viscid flame astral usb when

Chatter is inexpensive, provide alterarions

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:44 PM

#

this is bs why isn't there an actual error

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:45 PM

#

No way real

#

You could try enabling syscall logging to see what is up

#

Or enable e9 logger

#

It could be a mlibc crash

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:46 PM

#

i'm not gonna go to that level immediately

#

the exit code is 1 so i doubt it's a signal

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:46 PM

#

And mlibc logs to e9 in asteal by default

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:46 PM

#

How do I start the fancy desktop thing?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:46 PM

#

prime geyser How do I start the fancy desktop thing?

startwm if it is installed

#

Since very often mlibc crashes are silent like that

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

can't even use jdb

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

And I wouldnt put it past a rtld error

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

Hm

#

I assume it’s not installed then

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

sharp carbon can't even use jdb

Is your kernel/openjdk patch old?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

latest git

#

did a world rebuild this morning

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:47 PM

#

We ran into that same issue but it was fixed

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:48 PM

#

prime geyser I assume it’s not installed then

Yeah

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:48 PM

#

grand shadow We ran into that same issue but it was fixed

It was because of an unimplemented pipe ioctl in astral, but it should be implemented now

#

Unless its doing it in like the tty or something

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 2:48 PM

#

sharp carbon this is bs why isn't there an actual error

are u trying to run modern mc?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

analog berry are u trying to run modern mc?

Yes

#

1.13 in this case

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

nice

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

I've got the libraries for up to 1.20.4 ported but that was doing a less-silent-but-still-useless crash

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

Oh

#

It is doing it in the tty

#

Uhh

#

Monkous

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

So I went to 1.13 since that's the earliest with lwjgl3

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:49 PM

#

Do you think you can implement that bytes available ioctl for the tty?

#

I think thats what it is missing

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

What's the IOCTL

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

FIONsomething let me get it

#

FIONREAD

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

grand shadow Yeah

(how would I go about installing it?)

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

prime geyser (how would I go about installing it?)

R you running in the root.img?

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:51 PM

#

I think so

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:51 PM

#

grand shadow FIONREAD

Let me check it out

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:51 PM

#

(Boot + login worked on the first limine entry after some tweaking, that being making root.img virtio)

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:53 PM

#

If so start networking with netd vionet0 (assuming you have virtio net attached, you should)
xbps-install -S xorg-server fvwm xterm xf86-video-fbdev xf86-input-mouse xf86-input-ketyboard

#

Sudo will be needed for both if not running as rooot

#

And there might be some more packages needed, I need to make a x11-base virtual package at some point

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:54 PM

#

uhh which one is the right virtio-net to use?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:54 PM

#

virtio net pci I guess

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 2:55 PM

#

prime geyser uhh which one is the right virtio-net to use?

what app is that^

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:55 PM

#

UTM

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 2:55 PM

#

grand shadow Do you think you can implement that bytes available ioctl for the tty?

does this look ok? i'm not very familiar with the codebase so there might be something obvious i'm missing

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

prime geyser UTM

(sideloaded version with JIT)

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

prime geyser UTM

ah, apple stuff, f

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

sharp carbon does this look ok? i'm not very familiar with the codebase so there might be som...

Looks ok, its been a while since I last looked at the tty code but lgtm

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

is there a version for linux?

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

plain qemu

#

oh no

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:00 PM

#

ketyboard

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

Oops I typod

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

oh right

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

keyboard*

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

sharp carbon does this look ok? i'm not very familiar with the codebase so there might be som...

Looks perfect, took a peek at the tty code

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

Yeah it's still throwing the same error

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:01 PM

#

Oh huh

#

Interesting

#

Im not sure if a seek on a tty should return espipe or some other error

#

Since it seeking the terminal is usually done after failing the ioctl

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 3:03 PM

#

so close to greatness

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:04 PM

#

The native function is small you could try to check what its doing

#

Available0(

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:04 PM

#

prime geyser so close to greatness

Oh did you close the vm before without syncing

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:04 PM

#

yeah i'm looking at it now and it shouldn't be possible to reach the seek if the ioctl succeeds

#

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 3:04 PM

#

grand shadow Oh did you close the vm before without syncing

I have no idea what I am doing so that is very well possible

#

can I fix somehow

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:05 PM

#

Redownload the image and next time you close the vm do a proper shutdown or run sync before closing it

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 3:05 PM

#

root.img or the booting one?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:06 PM

#

root.img

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 3:06 PM

#

grand shadow Oh did you close the vm before without syncing

I did not wait until it was safe to shut down my computer..

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:07 PM

#

rebuilding the disk image is incredibly painful with this directory on there

#

takes such a long time

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:15 PM

#

Ioctl can have a return value so maybe thatt should be set to zero?

#

I forgot if I do that automatically

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:17 PM

#

that status is whatever the usercopy returns

#

i think at least

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:19 PM

#

Result pointer in tty call

#

Damn thats bad, bug in a lot of ioctls in asteal I think

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:19 PM

#

nah i just checked it's initialized to 0

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 3:19 PM

#

Oh

#

Nvm then

#

My batrery is 9% so I might end up not responding if you find a possivle bug

#

Ubtil like 40 mins

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:38 PM

#

it's actually an mlibc bug!

#

as far as i can tell at least

#

well the root minecraft thing

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 3:53 PM

#

damn i made it hang in the kernel

#

bronze nexus Nov 11, 2025, 4:09 PM

#

Nice

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:10 PM

#

damn

#

what was the bug?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:11 PM

#

sharp carbon

Yooo holy shit

#

What were the mlibc bug and deadlock

#

And can you load a eorld

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

analog berry what was the bug?

Dlopen makes mlibc panic when it's called from JIT'd code

viscid flame Nov 11, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

sharp carbon

my favorite version

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

grand shadow What were the mlibc bug and deadlock

Haven't figured out the deadlock yet, it sometimes happens after an LWJGL 3 crash so I went back to the latest version that uses LWJGL 2

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

sharp carbon

how playable is it?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:13 PM

#

analog berry how playable is it?

On absolute lowest settings (including 2 chunk render distance) I get 10-20 FPS when standing still after chunks generated

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:13 PM

#

some optimizations to be done i guess

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:15 PM

#

grand shadow And can you load a eorld

Is this a good enough showcase screenshot

#

Also what's the cmdline argument for multicore llvmpipe or whatever

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:16 PM

#

sharp carbon Also what's the cmdline argument for multicore llvmpipe or whatever

LP_NUM_THREADS

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:16 PM

#

sharp carbon Is this a good enough showcase screenshot

Hell yeah this is so cool

#

Maybe get a neofetch

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:17 PM

#

How do I get a second terminal

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:17 PM

#

Click on any place in the background

#

Iyll open a menu and click xterm

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 4:18 PM

#

sharp carbon

wow indeed

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:21 PM

#

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

sharp carbon Is this a good enough showcase screenshot

Does f3 mention anything about astral

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

unfortunately not

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

what does it say?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

sharp carbon

Hell yeah

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

wraith surge what does it say?

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:22 PM

#

f

#

unknown

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

guess we should be able to run gtnh now

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

this is the highest fps i've been able to get

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

prob

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

Real

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

sharp carbon this is the highest fps i've been able to get

still pretty good

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:23 PM

#

i wonder what slows it down that much exactly

#

is it spamming some syscall or something

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

no gpu accel maybe?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

well it is an old mesa version apparently

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

Now find a offline mode mc server and join troll

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

wraith surge no gpu accel maybe?

llvmpipe is very fast

wraith surge Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

strange then

prime geyser Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

is there hope for sata support someday

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:24 PM

#

why

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

prime geyser is there hope for sata support someday

Yeah if I get the time to write that

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

funnily enough 1.12.2 works fine while 1.7.10 breaks when clicking the singleplayer button in the main menu

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

sharp carbon funnily enough 1.12.2 works fine while 1.7.10 breaks when clicking the singlepla...

Wtf

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

and when i say break i mean crash

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

no astral stargate any%

#

sadmeme

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

analog berry no astral stargate any%

Soon

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

which is annoying because on any minecraft version i've tried so far when the game window closes the kernel panics

#

so i can't read the crash report

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

Is it a localsocker thing

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

maybe make the kernel crash

#

if an app segfautls

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:26 PM

#

If so I have the fix on a local patch

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:26 PM

#

sharp carbon so i can't read the crash report

this is the only part i can read

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:26 PM

#

Iovecs with a len of 0 kinda break the iovec code

#

Emfile

#

Wtf

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:27 PM

#

grand shadow Is it a localsocker thing

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:28 PM

#

Im not home but when I am I can push the localsock fixes

#

Yup

#

Thats the bug I fixed

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:28 PM

#

sick

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:29 PM

#

The issue is that java or whatever does a writev with iovecs ghat are like
len = 0
len = 512
len = 0

#

And that breaks the iovec ringbuffer code

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:29 PM

#

grand shadow Emfile

yeah this seems kinda restrictive

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

#

My fix was to just skip 0 bytes at the start of every for loop lnao

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

#

increasing it to 64k locally and seeing if that fixes 1.7.10

#

actually it seems that the 1.7.10 singleplayer crash induces a different panic

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:31 PM

#

lol

#

kernec

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:32 PM

#

Spooky

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:32 PM

#

sharp carbon increasing it to 64k locally and seeing if that fixes 1.7.10

yep that did it

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:33 PM

#

I need to implement sysconf already, since mlibc's default is 255

#

256

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:34 PM

#

that's just an informative number mlibc returns, it's not actually authoritative

#

the best minecraft version

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:34 PM

#

Oh hell yeah

#

What was the kernel crash btw

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:34 PM

#

nice

#

btw can u try actual gtnh

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:35 PM

#

grand shadow What was the kernel crash btw

which one

#

there's been multiple

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:35 PM

#

The last one

#

The page fault

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:36 PM

#

that happened when mc crashed due to emfile, when i raised the fd table limit the panic also disappeared

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:36 PM

#

Oh

#

Ill add that to my todolist of bugs to look at, since that should not crash the kernel

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

#

analog berry btw can u try actual gtnh

https://tenor.com/view/meme-my-honest-reaction-my-honest-reactor-reactor-lcr-gif-17928812037033781866

Tenor

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

#

grand shadow Ill add that to my todolist of bugs to look at, since that should not crash the ...

i don't think that's what caused it directly, mc still had time to create a crash report and all, it only crashed when the window closed

#

just like the other window close crashes except this time it had a different panic

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

#

Hm

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

#

grand shadow https://tenor.com/view/meme-my-honest-reaction-my-honest-reactor-reactor-lcr-gif...

me with hv singleblocks because no PTFE trl

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM

#

Just handcraft ptfe for a single lcr to automate ptfe vro 🥀

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM

#

fair but nitirc acid is ass

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM

#

Yeah lmao

opal lotus Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM

#

sharp carbon the best minecraft version

yooo pog

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM

#

damn, 40-60 FPS in the overworld

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:40 PM

#

needs optifine

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:40 PM

#

Crazy, wonder how fast itd be woth optifine

#

Yeah lmao

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:50 PM

#

the way optifine launches mc on 1.7.10 is incompatible with java >=9

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:50 PM

#

Bruhhh

#

Damn

#

Maybe a more midern mod like the ones gtnh use

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

yeah gtnh has a different mod

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

we will see

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

letsgo

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

Hype

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

inb4 monkuous disappears for 2 years to beat gtnh

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

#

Gtnh playthrough in astral

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

#

a real possibility

#

maybe i'll update mesa first to get better perf though

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

#

Good idea

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

#

yeah

#

maybe also enable AVX in astral

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:54 PM

#

do mesa or llvm updates involve a world rebuild

#

please say no

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

#

Dont think so

#

Dont see why it would

#

Llvm is used only for mesa and mesa uses dynamic linking anyways

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:56 PM

#

let's hope then

#

llvm does have a notoriously unstable abi after all

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

sharp carbon we will see

GTNH wants LWJGL 3

#

which currently crashes during init

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

and lwjgl crashes the kernel?

#

3 i mean

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

no not the kernel that's done by the window closing post-crash

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

ah damn

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

lwjgl3 segfaults in some native function

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

Hm

marsh sparrow Nov 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

sharp carbon do mesa or llvm updates involve a world rebuild

You need to rebuild mesa after building llvm

#

But mesa has a stable abi

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

ah ok good

#

less good: llvm patch fails

#

how am i supposed to update the patch again

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 5:00 PM

#

If the localsocket crash is too big of an issue you can add an iovec_iterator_skip to the start of the for loops in iovec.c

#

If you skip 0 bytes itll end up skipping the 0 sized iovecs without skipping any real buffer

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 5:00 PM

#

sharp carbon how am i supposed to update the patch again

I forgot

willow rapids Nov 11, 2025, 5:00 PM

#

sharp carbon

Yoooo

#

Now join a server hosted on managarm

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:09 PM

#

robust geyser just port prism launcher

You were saying?

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

prime juniper You were saying?

i never said it was hard :^)

#

good port tho

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

( @carmine swallow did it yesterday)

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

i was saying "just port it" in response to "but you need to download all the libraries by hand"

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

I’m more of a technic launcher enjoyer myself

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

prism > all

#

ngl

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

Never used it lmao

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

shrimple

#

you should

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

But it sure looks like Qt to me

#

Yeah it’s Qt6 according to gentoo ebuild

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:14 PM

#

makes sense considering it's multi platform

#

i use it on both windows and linux

#

and i haven't seen usable gtk on windows yet

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:14 PM

#

Oh that’s a thing

#

But Qt is way friendlier for cross platform

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:15 PM

#

isn't firefox gtk?

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:15 PM

#

On Linux and friends it is

#

On windows no clue

robust geyser Nov 11, 2025, 5:15 PM

#

hm i see

#

considering you can theme it with css i'm guessing it is

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 5:16 PM

#

Likely then

marsh sparrow Nov 11, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

robust geyser and i haven't seen usable gtk on windows yet

Gimp?

opal lotus Nov 11, 2025, 5:35 PM

#

grand shadow Crazy, wonder how fast itd be woth optifine

sodium maybe?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 5:35 PM

#

sodium is only for lwjgl 3 versions iirc

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

#

Did you find anything more about the lwjgl 3 crash?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 5:46 PM

#

grand shadow Did you find anything more about the lwjgl 3 crash?

haven't really investigated yet

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 5:52 PM

#

Damn

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 6:04 PM

#

ok fun fact with the llvm+mesa update AVX support is required

#

both minecraft and glxgears crash with SIGFPE

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 6:05 PM

#

Interesting, I wouldve thought itd crash with sigill

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 6:05 PM

#

actually good point

#

one second

#

yeah nevermind it's a division by zero

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 6:09 PM

#

Makes sense

#

Btw, when the mlibc pr gets merged dont update mlibc in astral, itll need a world rebuild and a new openjdk patch

#

Since I am behind a few abi breaks and stuff

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 6:12 PM

#

good to know

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 6:14 PM

#

sharp carbon yeah nevermind it's a division by zero

ah llvm wants AT_PAGESZ and the assert to check for !=0 gets compiled out

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 6:14 PM

#

And for that patch he’s stuck on me debugging Java font shit (which is also why managarm doesn’t have Minecraft yet). We continue that today

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 6:14 PM

#

sharp carbon ah llvm wants AT_PAGESZ and the assert to check for !=0 gets compiled out

Ah yes we ran into that too

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 6:14 PM

#

Not that difficult to add

prime juniper Nov 11, 2025, 6:23 PM

#

Easy fix yes

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 6:42 PM

#

@grand shadow just to confirm, openjdk on astral has JIT enabled right?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 7:05 PM

#

sharp carbon <@215823874615541761> just to confirm, openjdk on astral has JIT enabled right?

Indeed

#

Its enabled by default and you can disable passing -Xint to the jvm

proper meteor Nov 11, 2025, 8:22 PM

#

astral replacing linux when

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:26 PM

#

in 2204

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:26 PM

#

sharp carbon maybe i'll update mesa first to get better perf though

btw, did this end up having any improvement or did you hit a bug?

#

~~or llvm took too long to compile :P~~

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

First time minecraft was beaten on a hobby OS?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

grand shadow btw, did this end up having any improvement or did you hit a bug?

Update was successful but improvement was minimal

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

sharp carbon First time minecraft was beaten on a hobby OS?

holy shit

#

how playable was it overall

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

Honestly surprisingly playable if you're willing to put up with low render distance

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

daaaamn

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

But a lot of frame rate hitches and low render distance isn't really viable in the end fight

#

So the end fight was done at 10-15 fps

fleet osprey Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/pizza-tower-peppino-holy-crap-holy-shit-pizza-tower-holy-shit-gif-1426845810235645683

Tenor

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

sharp carbon So the end fight was done at 10-15 fps

Not to mention when the dragon decides to throw 6 particle bombs and the framerate drops to single digits

fleet osprey Nov 11, 2025, 8:48 PM

#

it was stable too? no crashes or anything?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:48 PM

#

fleet osprey it was stable too? no crashes or anything?

No crashes, but there was some weirdness at times that caused me to reload the world (things like lighting not updating when placing torches)

#

Probably just some worker thread being overloaded

#

Ok for some reason the end credits are incredibly laggy

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:50 PM

#

astral is stable enough for a full playthrough of mc lets goooo

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:50 PM

#

Like 1 FPS

#

What's so laggy about scrolling text??

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:50 PM

#

maybe framebuffer idk

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 8:51 PM

#

sharp carbon What's so laggy about scrolling text??

I doubt its graphics related tbh

#

Maybe some syscall in astral being ridiculously slow

#

Plus lack of vdso

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:52 PM

#

Vdso impact isn't that high

#

But yeah maybe

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

There probably isn't an easy way to profile the whole system unfortunately

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

I can confirm though that most of the MC frame time is taken up by rendering terrain

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

sharp carbon First time minecraft was beaten on a hobby OS?

🔥🔥🔥

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

According to the MC builtin profiler

#

Which is expected but nice to know it's not some non-graphics-related performance issue on astral

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:55 PM

#

yeah maybe its just the overhead of running in a vm + no avx or whatever

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 8:55 PM

#

are you running the latest llvmpipe with all supported instruction sets ?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:55 PM

#

I'm gonna try to add xsave support (aka avx) and see if that helps

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

that would be great

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

and recompile llvmpipe?

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

I imagine llvmpipe would discover it on the fly

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

llvmpipe is a JIT for graphics

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 9:01 PM

#

year of the astral desktop 2026

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 9:32 PM

#

implementing xsave in astral is more work than i thought because the entire codebase assumes that the context size is known at compile time

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 9:38 PM

#

Yeah that code is ooldoold

#

Think I wrote it in 2023 but took the idea from old 2022 astral

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:01 PM

#

sharp carbon implementing xsave in astral is more work than i thought because the entire code...

and does xsave not provide a fixed size context or what?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:01 PM

#

nope

#

with xsave you select a bitmask of features and then query cpuid to get the size

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:07 PM

#

sharp carbon with xsave you select a bitmask of features and then query cpuid to get the size

so here's how I'd solve that problem: DO NOT add xsave registers in the context frame. instead, allocate a separate region in the thread struct called xsave_state and save and restore into that. the kernel doesn't use MMX/SSE/SSE2/AVX so you're safe to do it right inside the function that switches the current thread (and also reloads cr3, gsbasekernel, etc)

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

astral has this concept but that, too, has to be fixed size

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

why

#

no just use a void* pointer

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

signal processing assumes the entire context (including fp) is a fixed size struct

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

like

struct thread {
    //...
    void* xsave_state;
};```

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

dw i've already made the changes necessary to implement xsave

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

sharp carbon signal processing assumes the entire context (including fp) is a fixed size stru...

that's... bad

#

i'd solve it by pushing the xsave state first and then the rest of the context

#

then when returning from the signal handler pop the xsave state after everything else

#

kinda like how strings are stored later in the stack in the information block and then earlier in the stack there are pointers to areas inside the information block

#

(talking about argv and where each character string inside argv is stored)

#

however i realize you're way more experienced than i am

#

so maybe you already thought of this

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

no i just made sigframe_t variable sized

#

this is the entire xsave patch

📎 message.txt

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

sharp carbon this is the entire xsave patch

how did it affect perf?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

i'm testing it now (by beating mc again)

#

it's promising

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

thats a lot

neon crane Nov 11, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

sharp carbon it's promising

fps numbers?

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

trying to get to a place where i can do an actual comparison

analog berry Nov 11, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

I can try on my cpu with avx 512 tomorrow if you give me the IMG

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:54 PM

#

and now the 2nd ever minecraft hobby os completion

#

verdict on AVX: it definitely helps. this was much more playable, especially during the end fight (the most directly comparable part of the run)

split lance Nov 11, 2025, 11:54 PM

#

that's sooo cool! Admire

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 11:55 PM

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sharp carbon verdict on AVX: it definitely helps. this was much more playable, especially dur...

Hell yeahh do you have any specific numbers?

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Good work btw

sharp carbon Nov 11, 2025, 11:56 PM

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grand shadow Hell yeahh do you have any specific numbers?

pre-AVX dragon fight felt like 10-15 FPS when not much was going on and 2-5 FPS when one of those particle bombs was on the screen
post-AVX dragon fight felt like 25-30 FPS when not much was going on and 10-15 FPS when one of those particle bombs was on the screen

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but i didn't actually do a proper measurement with either setup

grand shadow Nov 11, 2025, 11:59 PM

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sharp carbon pre-AVX dragon fight felt like 10-15 FPS when not much was going on and 2-5 FPS ...

Oh yeah that is defo much better

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 12:58 AM

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analog berry I can try on my cpu with avx 512 tomorrow if you give me the IMG

image (xz compressed): https://we.tl/t-l7N3XeL99D
qemu command: i personally use qemu-system-x86_64 -display sdl -accel kvm -M q35 -cpu host,migratable=off -smp 8 -m 32G -bios /usr/share/edk2/x64/OVMF.4m.fd -drive file=bootable.img,format=raw,if=none,id=nvme -device nvme,serial=deadc0ff,drive=nvme
steps to run mc: in xterm do ```sh
cd /minecraft
LP_NUM_THREADS=<cpus> ./run.sh 1.12.2

bootable.img.xz

1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 1:10 AM

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Very nice

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I usually run it with 4 cpus so good to know 8 does not kill it

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 AM

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Also, in the same dir as run.sh, that image contains a Python script that can download the libraries and assets for any arbitrary Minecraft version (theoretically, because I've only tried it for 1.7.10 and up)

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Might be useful if you want to test an older version

prime geyser Nov 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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sharp carbon the way optifine launches mc on 1.7.10 is incompatible with java >=9

sodium when

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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apparently needs lwjgl 3 which currently crashes

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I should add an installation manual to astral-os.org at some point

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I already have the step by step written down, I just have to make it a bit more verbose

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 4:32 AM

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grand shadow Right now the biggest issue is making the page cache and disk contents stay cohe...

i have important information

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nobody keeps that coherent

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you have to explicitly invalidate the page cache if you want it to be coherent with the file data on disk after doing a noncached write in basically every OS, and you also have to explicitly flush it if you want cached writes to be visible to noncached reads

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ok i lied apparently O_DIRECT does that for you on Linux but it doesnt do it in a write-updating way

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https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/fs/ext2/file.c#L268

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see here

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they invalidate the entire range of pages in the page cache

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oh, and thats only advisory

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it can fail on pages that are dirty in the range and they ignore failures, so dirty pages just stick around non-coherently

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so indeed theres no guarantee of coherency until you do explicit invalidation, they just make a best effort

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does this make your life easier at all @grand shadow

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 4:50 AM

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hmm

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most of my worries for this are because of the way I cache filesystem metadata, I directly use the disk's vnode to do that
this leads to the issue where obviously filesystem metadata can share the same page as file data and, as file i/o is obviously not cached as to not have duplicate data in memory, this could lead to one overwritting the other during writeback at some later point

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I could try find another way to cache metadata and actually make non cached i/o completely ignore the page cache

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 4:52 AM

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do u want to know how NT manages that

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 4:52 AM

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sure thing

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 4:53 AM

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too bad its a secret

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jk

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they have a generic in-memory data structure they use for keeping trees of on-disk extents which is intended to be used by filesystem drivers to efficiently translate from file offset -> disk offset

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this is also usable as a very efficient mask they can add and remove ranges from

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basically the fs drivers create a fictitious file with special handling for reads and writes

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which redirect them to the underlying disk

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but first, in the write path, it masks it off with the aforementioned data structure

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potentially splitting up the write and removing some sectors from it

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whenever they need a sector of metadata, they add it to this mask

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so that writeback will work

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 4:56 AM

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so basically, a special type of "metadata vnode" that when written back to disk it does some special handling to not overwrite things it shouldn't?

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 4:56 AM

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yes

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which is created by the filesystem driver at mount time

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 4:57 AM

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I did think of doing something like that at some point, so knowing a real os does that it seems like that is the way to go

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 4:57 AM

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prime mulch they have a generic in-memory data structure they use for keeping trees of on-di...

to be specific about what this is btw

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is its a data structure that supports these operations with the intent of being used to cache file offset -> sector lookups:

add discrete mapping from given virtual offset to given physical sector
remove discrete mapping from given virtual offset
look up physical sector given a virtual offset (or inform caller somehow if not found)

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and it does this with an AVL tree of extent structures that represent a contiguous virtual->physical range

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which it tries to keep as merged as possible

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to minimize memory usage and depth of the tree

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they reuse this as a mask for metadata writebacks by:

to add sector to mask: add a 1:1 virtual->physical translation
to remove sector from mask: remove virtual translation
to check whether sector is in mask: look up virtual translation and see if present

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it happens to work as an efficient structure for basically keeping a bit mask of metadata sectors across the entirety of a large volume, where each contiguous run of set bits is represented as a single in-memory extent structure with a base and length

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:03 AM

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grand shadow I did think of doing something like that at some point, so knowing a real os doe...

theres an alternative which is to use a page cache backed buffer cache specifically for metadata and thats what i was thinking of for mintia2

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see here and onward for my description of the idea #lounge-0 message

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basically you back the buffer cache data with mappings from the page cache and you reuse the read-in and demand paging logic thereof

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but these pages are never written out with the normal machinery

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instead the buffer cache has its own write-out logic that operates on disk block granularity (and tries to cluster appropriately and whatever)

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and uses noncached IO from the page cache pages to the underlying thing

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:12 AM

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prime mulch it happens to work as an efficient structure for basically keeping a bit mask of...

okay I think I understand it
say inode 1234 is at sector 123456
you could have the metadata file be structured as something like
superblock | group descriptor | bitmaps | inodes
and so to write to that vnode, you first tell it that at offset of inode 1234 in it, rounded down to sector size, is sector 123456
then you write to it as you would any page cache backed vnode
when its time to write it back to disk, it uses the sector mappings to write out the dirty pages, if present in the mappings, to the correct sectors without overwriting things like they would on page sized writes

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:13 AM

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yeah

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for NTFS they actually designed the on-disk filesystem around this to completely avoid needing to do that

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by having all of the fs metadata be like pseudo-files on disk

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including the disk bitmap and the inode table (MFT) itself

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so it Just Works like it works for any other files

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:17 AM

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hmmm this seems smarter than the naive way I was originally going to approach all of this, which was to just tell the page cache how many pages max to cluster in and go syncing and evicting them as I go instead of directly doing block I/O (kind of what I already do for non cached i/o but with the cluster limits)

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yeah no the naive way would not work efficiently at all

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:17 AM

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prime mulch instead the buffer cache has its own write-out logic that operates on disk block...

this also has a cool benefit that you can like

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when you mark a buffer dirty you can say "i want this to be written out in the order it was marked dirty" which forbids it from coalescing it into a bigger write potentially out-of-order with other dirty buffers

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and when you want you can enforce block-granular ordering

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which is useful for journaled FS implementation

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and stuff

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this is impossible to do with the "metadata mask" thing because the write-out logic is still page granular

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NT's solution is to make pages that contain metadata that is sensitive to ordering (like the NTFS log related stuff) exempt from normal write-out and at specific safe moments it performs basically a big "barrier" which writes it all out to disk synchronously before proceeding to the next thing

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i dislike this

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:29 AM

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I still got some ground to cover before I get to this so I will think about which way I am gonna approach this

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thank you for your wisdom mr hyena man

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:29 AM

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i did the metadata pseudo file thing in old mintia and it made me feel like the Advanced Buffer Cache idea is the btter one

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thats just my input

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i dont know of any implementation of the ABC (thats my name for it that ive coined just now) currently out there

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maybe the UBC in netbsd is something like it idk

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:30 AM

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I do find letting the filesystems just ask for specific sectors rather than add handling for an entire metadata file cleaner

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:31 AM

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well there was one really cool thing with the metadata file

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you know how youre supposed to mirror the fat in fat12/16/32

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whenever you write to it youre meant to write to the other mirrored fats simultaneously

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the NT (and mintia) FAT driver has a cool solution to this which is whenever a write comes in to the metadata file and is targeted at the FAT, it is split into a handful of equivalent IRPs which are redirected to the mirrored FATs and dispatched to the disk driver asynchronously in parallel

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so you only have to modify the FAT once and only have to store 1 page of it

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and the writeback of FAT pages is automatically split to each mirrored FAT

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i cant imagine doing that particular thing in any other way now i know that epic sauce way exists, plus fat metadata is restricted to a region at the start of the volume and its extremely easy to clip metadata writes so they dont exceed that region and that solves the problem

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so ill probably still do specifically FAT metadata that way because its the best way

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but for other fs drivers ill use the ABC thing

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 5:36 AM

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sharp carbon image (xz compressed): https://we.tl/t-l7N3XeL99D qemu command: i personally use...

damn I get like 3FPS, but that might have to do with WSL tbh

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i might try with vmware as well a bit later

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:37 AM

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prime mulch the NT (and mintia) FAT driver has a cool solution to this which is whenever a w...

thats smart

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did you come up yourself with the abc thing btw

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:38 AM

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yes but it probably already exists in some form

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its an obvious idea

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:39 AM

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do you allocate a small descriptor for each sector?

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:40 AM

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probably, from a cache with magazines and slabs and so on

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i havent actually implemented it yet

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mintia2 io stack is gonna be terrifyingly complicated and im still stalling it

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by doing other stuf and trying to read up on other modern io stacks in the meanwhile

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 5:41 AM

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ah so likely what I would end up doing as well then

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so basically:
fs asks for sector 1234
abc checks page cache for page containing sector 1234, loads in page and allocates descriptors for the sectors if not there
fs then writes to sector 1234
abc sets the sector as dirty in the descriptor and adds it to a dirty list, as well as dirtying the page
page cache starts writeback of dirty pages, calls into abc put_pages() or whatever
abc manually writes the dirty sectors to disk and sets them as not dirty

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 5:45 AM

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no its more like

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fs asks for sector 1234
abc looks for sector 1234's descriptor. if it doesn't find it, it allocates a new one and associates it with the correct location in a demand paged mmap'd window into the disk (these windows are themselves cached, maybe in the generic file viewcache). it then refs the underlying page (preventing page-out) and returns it.
fs then writes to the sector and calls abc to mark it dirty
abc sets the sector as dirty in the descriptor and sorts it into its own private dirty list ordered by LBA to reduce seek times. doesnt bother setting the page dirty because the page cache is uninvolved in writeout. it also increments the refcount on the underlying page again to reflect that theres a dirty sector inside it (or increments the refcount on the sector to reflect that it is dirty)
fs releases buffer for sector 1234 which removes the first refcount on the page
later, abc's own lazy writer thread walks the list of dirty sectors, marks them clean, and initiates clustered noncached write-outs to the disk
when these write-outs complete, the underlying pages for each sector are unreferenced, allowing them to be demand paged in and out

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the cool thing about this that distinguishes it from a traditional buffer cache is that the sector data is 100% pageable in and out of the system, the same way as any other file- or device-backed page, during any time where there are no actively referenced sectors within the page

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a reference to a sector is held while the fs driver for example is actively making use of it and also while the sector is marked dirty

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probably there'd be a refcount inside the sector descriptor where, when its incremented to 1, the refcount on the underlying page is also incremented to pin it into memory

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further references dont need to up the refcount on the underlying page

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when the sector's refcount drops to zero, the page's refcount is decremented and the descriptor is inserted into a list of reclaimable descriptors (or just freed outright depending on if theres any value in caching the descriptors themselves, considering the underlying data is still cached by the page cache and so the descriptors are theoretically disposable as soon as their refcount hits 0, at the expense of extra setup time later)

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during low memory situations youd also probably want to kick the abc's lazy writer into action alongside dumping other dirty pages to disk in order to free them up

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 6:10 AM

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okay so, just to confirm, the descriptors are in a separate tree structure for the lookup with the sector as the key and for the window I think I could just get it from the page cache and point it to the hhdm of the page

about the sector refcount dropping to zero, I think the simplest implementation would be to free it, that way standby pages dont need to hold info about attached descriptors in their struct pages

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 6:12 AM

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they wouldnt need to hold that info anyway

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thats the reason its a demand paged view

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so if the page is yeeted

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and you look up the sector descriptor and go to touch it

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you just fault it back in

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 6:13 AM

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hmmm

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okay I think I understand this

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and its way cleaner than the file thing I think

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 6:14 AM

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by the way the reason that the page is held pinned in memory while the buffer is being used by the fs driver is IO errors

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when you look up a sector, the abc needs to fault in the page if its not there and then pin it

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and if the page fault results in an IO error, it needs to convert that to an error status return

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rather than crash the system

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this is a real concern for like network filesystem stuff

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the abc could be acting directly on a mapped view of a network filesystem if its, say, a mounted disk image that resides on an nfs server

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if it didnt pin it in a safe way first then any access to the metadata by the fs driver could result in a failed page fault due to IO error which usually leads to a crash if unhandled

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 6:16 AM

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I dont support demand paging in the kernel (cringe ik) for simplicity but I dont think thats a hard requirement for abc

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 6:16 AM

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yeah its not

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it makes it way cooler though

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 6:17 AM

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yeah

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 6:17 AM

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you still need to pin the page for a different reason

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which is to avoid the hhdm location becoming reused

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by the page frame changing hands

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 6:18 AM

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yeah

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I think I will implement abc, I like it

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thank you

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you've always been a good inspiration to get better on kernel design

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 8:00 AM

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@prime mulchso in your design, this advanced buffer cache thing would apply to just the metadata, or the entire disk?

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for example on ext2 would it apply to the inode table, inode bitmap, and block bitmap separately, or as one whole structure?

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(FAT really only has one piece of metadata which is the, well, FAT)

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:12 AM

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Managarm uses a page cache for all of these ext2 bitmaps / tables

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but of course it's not accessible to userspace applications

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 8:14 AM

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marsh sparrow Managarm uses a page cache for all of these ext2 bitmaps / tables

separately or together?

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:15 AM

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separately

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one cache per structure

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 8:15 AM

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also my OS currently has a page cache that applies to the whole disk, which is bypassed specifically for files and directories. but i don't yet have write support so this probably won't stick

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i see i see

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:16 AM

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this is easy on ext2 since the numbers/locations/sizes of these structures are fixed (after fs creation)

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 8:16 AM

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thats true

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the FAT is also fixed

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:12 PM

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got lwjgl3 working

#

turns out it was an issue with libffi (it assumed malloc returned rwx memory)

viscid flame Nov 12, 2025, 1:14 PM

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sharp carbon got lwjgl3 working

does fabric or forge works ?

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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sharp carbon turns out it was an issue with libffi (it assumed malloc returned rwx memory)

wtf

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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probably

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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sharp carbon got lwjgl3 working

holy shit

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can we now do gtnh

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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What was the fix?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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marsh sparrow wtf

fwiw i'm pretty sure managarm has this issue too

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adding a defined(__astral__) to an existing block of ifdefs

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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which one?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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diff -urN --no-dereference libffi-clean/src/closures.c libffi-workdir/src/closures.c
--- libffi-clean/src/closures.c
+++ libffi-workdir/src/closures.c
@@ -139,6 +139,9 @@
    executable memory. */
 #  define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1
 # endif
+# if defined(__astral__)
+#  define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1
+# endif
 #endif
 
 #if FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT && !defined FFI_MMAP_EXEC_SELINUX

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 1:15 PM

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CC @prime juniper

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:16 PM

#

fwiw this is what the entire ifdef block looks like ```c
#if !FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT && !FFI_EXEC_TRAMPOLINE_TABLE

if linux && !defined(ANDROID)

/* This macro indicates it may be forbidden to map anonymous memory
with both write and execute permission. Code compiled when this
option is defined will attempt to map such pages once, but if it
fails, it falls back to creating a temporary file in a writable and
executable filesystem and mapping pages from it into separate
locations in the virtual memory space, one location writable and
another executable. */

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

define HAVE_MNTENT 1

endif

if defined(_WIN32) || defined(OS2)

/* Windows systems may have Data Execution Protection (DEP) enabled,
which requires the use of VirtualMalloc/VirtualFree to alloc/free
executable memory. */

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

endif

if defined(astral)

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

endif

#endif```

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:19 PM

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analog berry can we now do gtnh

@sharp carbon can you try pls meme

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:19 PM

#

it's on my to do list

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:19 PM

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nice

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:19 PM

#

also on my to do list are "get 1.20.4 working" (latest version to use java 17) and "see how much sodium helps with fps"

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:20 PM

#

whats needed for 1.20?

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 1:20 PM

#

Considering that mint reported >100 fps with llvmpipe on linux at 1080p there must still be some bottleneck on astral

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:20 PM

#

fwiw gtnh also has a modern fps increase thing

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

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not really modern

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it's a backport

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

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well backport of a modern thing

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

#

so it doesn't work very well

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

#

analog berry whats needed for 1.20?

it has a weird crash i'm investigating

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

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damn y'all are running minecraft now?

#

I'm never catching up to any of you at this rate nooo

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:21 PM

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all u need is some sysdeps

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

#

i'm about to start elf loading now

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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a lot of sysdeps I guess?

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

#

then i can try userspace

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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a decent amount yes

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

#

wraith surge i'm about to start elf loading now

theoretically all you need is code to map the interpreter and a main executable

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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analog berry all u need is some sysdeps

And for your vmm&pmm not to cause a kernel panic when you do literally anythin

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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neon crane theoretically all you need is code to map the interpreter and a main executable

and a way to communicate to the userspace process those details

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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well thats hopefully covered by tests

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:22 PM

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neon crane theoretically all you need is code to map the interpreter and a main executable

i need to do CoW too

#

somehow

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and i'm rewriting my allocator to support non relocatable elfs

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:23 PM

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wraith surge and i'm rewriting my allocator to support non relocatable elfs

I'm sorry what

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:23 PM

#

wraith surge and i'm rewriting my allocator to support non relocatable elfs

what does your allocator have to do with non-relocatable elfs

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:23 PM

#

Have you been loading relocatable elfs as programs???

#

And what does that have to do with an allocator?

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:23 PM

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the dyn ones i mean

#

and non dyn

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:24 PM

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bronze nexus And what does that have to do with an allocator?

you need to allocate space for the elf, no?

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:24 PM

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Normally a kernel will support loading static (and static-pie) ELFs directly, and defer to a userspace interpreter for ET_DYN

sage locust Nov 12, 2025, 1:25 PM

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sharp carbon turns out it was an issue with libffi (it assumed malloc returned rwx memory)

lol, neat

#

i wonder if there are any extra patches that Astral has that should be backported to Gloire

#

or managarm

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:25 PM

#

wraith surge you need to allocate space for the elf, no?

Yeah but you also need to allocate to e.g. implement filesystems properly. You wouldn't call that "adding support for vfs to the allocator", would you?

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:26 PM

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bronze nexus Yeah but you also need to allocate to e.g. implement filesystems properly. You w...

i meant that the allocator would reserve the specific address and not use it

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:26 PM

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wraith surge you need to allocate space for the elf, no?

you should mmap the elf in memory

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:26 PM

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i did not have support for that

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:26 PM

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wraith surge i meant that the allocator would reserve the specific address and not use it

You need to look into virtual memory

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 1:26 PM

#

you can do it using private anonymous mmaps and just read the file in

#

but thats slow and crappy

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:27 PM

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bronze nexus You need to look into virtual memory

?

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:27 PM

#

wraith surge ?

Don't ask any more questions about ELF loading until you know what virtual memory is. If you've got questions about virtual memory, go to the channel with the same name.

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:27 PM

#

i do know...

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:28 PM

#

You seem not to

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 1:28 PM

#

wdym...

sage locust Nov 12, 2025, 1:29 PM

#

bronze nexus You seem not to

please don't backseat mod

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:29 PM

#

What has this got to do with backseat modding

sage locust Nov 12, 2025, 1:30 PM

#

(telling people where to go, when)

#

unless i am misunderstanding what you said

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:30 PM

#

I meant it more in a way of I don't want to pollute the convo here

sage locust Nov 12, 2025, 1:31 PM

#

in general we let thread owners make that judgement, there is no rule against off topic talk in a project's thread if the owner is fine with it

#

plus the way you said it seemed (to me) a bit rude

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 1:39 PM

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Sorry. I have a very short fuse for people being confidently incorrect.

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

sharp carbon got lwjgl3 working

Holy

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

marsh sparrow Considering that mint reported >100 fps with llvmpipe on linux at 1080p there mu...

How

#

Even on my gtx 1650 super I get less on mc I think

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 2:27 PM

#

this is what i get with llvmpipe on absolute lowest settings on vanilla 1.20.4 linux

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 2:27 PM

#

Crazy

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 2:28 PM

#

on the same settings with my actual gpu i get 1100-1200 fps

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pid 134 tid 136: In function getprotobyname, file ../../../base_dir/sources/mlibc/options/posix/generic/netdb.cpp:360
__ensure(!"Not implemented") failed
pid 134 tid 136: mlibc: panic``` lovely, this is preventing the jvm's debugging features from being used

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 2:37 PM

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Wonder what the biggest peef bottleneck is

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 2:38 PM

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sharp carbon this is what i get with llvmpipe on absolute lowest settings on vanilla 1.20.4 l...

Is this with sodium?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 2:38 PM

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neon crane Is this with sodium?

nope, completely vanilla

neon crane Nov 12, 2025, 2:38 PM

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wow

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crazy performance

proper meteor Nov 12, 2025, 2:53 PM

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grand shadow Wonder what the biggest peef bottleneck is

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 3:04 PM

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sharp carbon fwiw this is what the entire ifdef block looks like ```c #if !FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT...

Stealing this and applying it this evening. Nice catch

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 3:33 PM

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sharp carbon it has a weird crash i'm investigating

do you have any clues about what the crash is?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 3:33 PM

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oh i fixed that

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now it hangs around the end of init

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 3:33 PM

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oh

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damn

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 3:33 PM

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working on something to diagnose that since the java debugger doesn't work

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 3:36 PM

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why doesn't it work?

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because of getprotobyname?

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or some other issue?

blazing ingot Nov 12, 2025, 3:49 PM

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prime mulch including the disk bitmap and the inode table (MFT) itself

@prime mulch so am I correct in understanding that the mf, which is basically the inode table, is cached in the kernel address space in a similar manner to other cached files in NT?

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And it's mapped there... permanently?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 3:50 PM

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marsh sparrow because of getprotobyname?

getprotobyname does block it from working but even with a stub implementation it hangs on connecting to the jvm

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i think it's an issue with astral's tcp implementation

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 3:51 PM

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uh oh

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 3:51 PM

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and even if connecting to the vm did work, it wouldn't be worth much, because even enabling the debugger agent makes the jvm crash upon initialization

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i decided it was too much effort to look into it properly

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 4:15 PM

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my work shall continue today:
todolist: finish prp stuff, do virtio block descriptor allocation and scatter gather stuff, make filesystem rw better for fat/ext2, implement abc, rewrite page cache to make use of the new infrastructure for things like clustering

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 5:13 PM

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i love syscall tracing

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normally that takes 100-200ms

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 5:26 PM

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is that a msg by MC?

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 5:32 PM

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Looks like it

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 6:24 PM

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Yeah that's something from Minecraft initialization

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It's for updating old world to the current version

prime geyser Nov 12, 2025, 6:39 PM

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any hope for running GoldSrc games?

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perhaps even source engine

bronze nexus Nov 12, 2025, 6:48 PM

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That'd require either the source code or linux bin compat

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And IIRC Astral isn't Linux bin compat

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So... I guess you've got TF2?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:09 PM

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found the culprit of the mc init hang: net stack again! specifically, it's waiting without a timeout for the results of an api request

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:11 PM

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Damn, I guess somewhere I dont return an error if a route cant be found

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Unless you were running with netd which then bleh

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:17 PM

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considering ssh 127.0.0.1:22 also hangs i doubt it's something routing related

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i'm not going to look into it that far but i'd guess that's a good starting point for debugging

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:18 PM

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I can try taking a look

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:19 PM

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the solution i'm using is to just stop recognizing AF_INET at all

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socket(AF_INET, ...) now always returns EAFNOSUPPORT and that fixes the issue for me

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i suspect this same issue is part of what's preventing jdb from functioning since that also communicates over a local tcp port

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anyway, behold:

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:22 PM

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yoooo real

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i think it might be something with my tcp code not properly relaying back to the tcp client that the port is not open

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I swear I had something like sending a RST

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but that might not work or I might be misremembering

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wait holy shit

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fabric???

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:23 PM

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yep

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the way i debugged the issue is by writing a fabric mod that println'd at various places in the mc code

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:23 PM

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💀

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most normal java printf debugging

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good work monkuous

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

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okay this is much less stable than 1.12

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it's hitting an mlibc panic pid 234 tid 236: In function thread_mutex_destroy, file ../../../base_dir/sources/mlibc/options/internal/generic/threads.cpp:130 __ensure(!mutex->__mlibc_state) failed pid 234 tid 236: mlibc: panic

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that assert is supposed to be an error return

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:27 PM

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hm so I do send a reset, back, so I guess my connect() is at fault here for not handling receiving one

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:27 PM

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sharp carbon that assert is *supposed* to be an error return

according to the pthread_mutex_destroy manpage anyway

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:27 PM

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sharp carbon that assert is *supposed* to be an error return

oh neat another mlibc bug found

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:31 PM

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sharp carbon according to the `pthread_mutex_destroy` manpage anyway

Attempting to destroy a locked mutex results in undefined behavior.

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:31 PM

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is that the posix 2024 docs or the linux manpage

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because the linux manpage says no such thing and in fact specifies the behavior

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:32 PM

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that's from POSIX

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POSIX says that the impl may return EBUSY

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but yeah as a quality of implementation issue it probably makes sense to follow glibc here

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you can PR that fix in if you want to

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:37 PM

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ok, I both incorrectly handle the refusal of connections and there is an issue when the nic is not initialized

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fun stuff

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if I try talking to it from the host using tcp without running netd it doesnt even appear in the wireshark

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cant tell if thats a user networking thing or what

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:39 PM

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what is netd?

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:39 PM

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my half assed dhcp client

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:40 PM

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i just use a tap device for debugging Managarm

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so that i can have the VM directly in my home network

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that requires you to have a bridge on the host with your ethernet attached though

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:41 PM

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I am running in wsl so its kinda difficult lol

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but anyways, I think it might not even be tcp related (?)

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looking at the wireshark dump properely the host is arping but nobody is responding and even the host doesnt time out

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I'm not sure what the way to handle this is

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:43 PM

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damn even with sodium i only get 10 fps

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:43 PM

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wtf

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:46 PM

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so no improvement at all?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:46 PM

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nope

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:48 PM

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does the f3 graph show anything weird?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:49 PM

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nah it's completely expected, ~75% of root is gameRenderer and ~90% of that is terrain

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:49 PM

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is maybe xorg not using shared memory?

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:50 PM

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idk how to check for that

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:50 PM

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I dont think xorg uses shared memory in astral

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tho Ive never checked that

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 7:50 PM

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that'd explain why it's slow meme

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 7:52 PM

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grand shadow I dont think xorg uses shared memory in astral

☠️

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for some reason astral doesnt want to boot on windows qemu

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 7:53 PM

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I use an old version of limine and that has been known to have trouble in windows

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 7:53 PM

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fuck

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:54 PM

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i suspect most of sodium's improvement relies on not being cpu rendering (these are linux measurements, same scene in each, default graphics settings aside from vsync and fps limiting):

vanilla:
- radeon: 600-700 FPS
- llvmpipe: 10-15 FPS
sodium:
- radeon: 1300-1400 FPS
- llvmpipe: 13-17 FPS

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 7:55 PM

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marsh sparrow that'd explain why it's slow <:meme:575445094589661215>

how would i check for that and enable it if it is indeed disabled

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:00 PM

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xdpyinfo, look for MIT-SHM

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at least i think that's it

gritty shore Nov 12, 2025, 8:01 PM

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sharp carbon okay this is much less stable than 1.12

minecraft after 1.8 sucks anyway meme

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:02 PM

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these are the extensions reported on Managarm

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 8:02 PM

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marsh sparrow xdpyinfo, look for MIT-SHM

astral doesn't have that, can't be bothered to port it while I'm busy getting gtnh to work

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 8:03 PM

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does it even require porting? isnt it a compile option or something

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:04 PM

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it probably doesn't need porting but it definitely requires supporting infrastructure

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:07 PM

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marsh sparrow it probably doesn't need porting but it definitely requires supporting infrastru...

do you have the specifics

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if you remember from managarm

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:07 PM

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i know that ironclad uses the shmget backend of it but Managarm doesn't have that

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so it must be using something else on Managarm meme

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probably either memfd_create or O_TMPFILE

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:08 PM

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hmm

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:09 PM

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i'll check if i can spot it in the source, one sec

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:10 PM

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sharp carbon considering `ssh 127.0.0.1:22` also hangs i doubt it's something routing related

fixed

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do u want me to upstream it

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:11 PM

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marsh sparrow probably either memfd_create or O_TMPFILE

actually, it's either of these: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/blob/master/Xext/shm.c#L1217

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 8:11 PM

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grand shadow do u want me to upstream it

yes please, I don't like keeping the af_inet disable thing around

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:12 PM

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ah still needs some more debugging hold on

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or nvm

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I tried sshing to a random port of my vps but it seems like linux didnt even send a RST back 💀

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:14 PM

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it might be blocked by the firewall

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:16 PM

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yeah I have a firewall in the vps that must be it

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🥀 I forgot I had that on

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anyways @sharp carbon fixed reset code should be up

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 8:23 PM

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grand shadow anyways <@938223886439436320> fixed reset code should be up

issue's still there

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 8:23 PM

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grand shadow fixed

just bare 127.0.0.1 already worked, the issue occurs when 127.0.0.1:22 is passed

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don't know why that makes a difference but it does

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:35 PM

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sharp carbon just bare `127.0.0.1` already worked, the issue occurs when `127.0.0.1:22` is pa...

that doesnt work even on the host

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 8:35 PM

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yeah but it hangs on astral instead of erroring

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the hanging is in turn what causes minecraft to hang on init

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grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:36 PM

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hm

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a response never happens to the udp request

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now the question is if mlibc supports a timeout

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and if so if astral does it properly

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:40 PM

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timeout for what?

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:40 PM

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dns response

marsh sparrow Nov 12, 2025, 8:40 PM

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yes

worthy mica Nov 12, 2025, 8:40 PM

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sharp carbon anyway, behold:

Wow Congrats.

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That's crazy.

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 8:43 PM

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marsh sparrow yes

I dont see it in the lookup_name_dns function

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unless its something external

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indeed it does not

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will be implementing timeout

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 9:21 PM

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blazing ingot And it's mapped there... permanently?

its not mapped permanently, they cache 256kb mapped views of files which are tiled across a large region of kernel space

sage locust Nov 12, 2025, 9:25 PM

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@prime mulch what do you think of fishOS?

blazing ingot Nov 12, 2025, 9:25 PM

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prime mulch its not mapped permanently, they cache 256kb mapped views of files which are til...

When is mft specifically unmapped?

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 9:31 PM

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blazing ingot When is mft specifically unmapped?

when the volume is unmounted i guess theyd destroy all of the fcbs (basically vnodes) and at that time any outstanding views would be deleted. they also unmap unused views and reuse them if they run out of them

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 9:31 PM

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sage locust <@783460822525149196> what do you think of fishOS?

whats that

opal lotus Nov 12, 2025, 9:32 PM

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prime mulch whats that

https://discord.com/channels/440442961147199490/1286026668405948567

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:56 PM

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@prime juniper figured out the java font issue: the X11 font code special cases linux if an os-specific fontconfig.properties isn't found (https://github.com/openjdk/jdk/blob/dfacda488bfbe2e11e8d607a6d08527710286982/src/java.desktop/unix/classes/sun/awt/X11FontManager.java#L699-L705

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 9:56 PM

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too slow

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we fixed that 20 minutes ago

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meme

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:56 PM

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oh wow

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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did you run into that while trying gtnh

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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but yes, that was the issue

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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grand shadow did you run into that while trying gtnh

yes

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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damn

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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i fixed it by editing the isLinux check to include || osName.startsWith("Astral")

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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sharp carbon i fixed it by editing the isLinux check to include `|| osName.startsWith("Astral...

so did we

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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but i suppose the more "proper" way to solve it is to include a fontconfig.properties

prime juniper Nov 12, 2025, 9:57 PM

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meme

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 9:58 PM

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@analog berry

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 9:59 PM

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HOPLY SHIT

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DOES IT START

opal lotus Nov 12, 2025, 9:59 PM

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wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 10:00 PM

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lol, let's send this screen in the gtnh discord

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 10:00 PM

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grand shadow DOES IT START

unfortunately not

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 10:00 PM

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f

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 10:00 PM

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damnit

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 10:00 PM

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wraith surge lol, let's send this screen in the gtnh discord

real

grand shadow Nov 12, 2025, 10:01 PM

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sharp carbon unfortunately not

did it say anything more about the error or are we just in the dark

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 10:01 PM

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trying to figure it out

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it marks this as "errored"

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there's this but the backtrace it mentions does not exist

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ah nevermind it's just not in the scrollback buffer

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wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 10:03 PM

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sharp carbon

send the output to your host terminal

blazing ingot Nov 12, 2025, 10:03 PM

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prime mulch when the volume is unmounted i guess theyd destroy all of the fcbs (basically vn...

so, under memory pressure?

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I'm asking because with a caching system like in NT, I understand when and how they unmap regular files from the cache, but the mft case seems more interesting, at least for me

prime mulch Nov 12, 2025, 10:06 PM

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blazing ingot so, under memory pressure?

memory pressure wouldnt necessarily cause that, because these mapped views are demand paged so they can just do normal paging without destroying the view

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if that makes sense

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its like how when a mmap'd file's pages are paged out, the file isnt munmap'd, you just fault on it next time you touch it

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 10:06 PM

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sharp carbon <@353593948523986945>

letsgo letsgo letsgo

blazing ingot Nov 12, 2025, 10:06 PM

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yeah, I was worried about wasting space on that

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 10:07 PM

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wraith surge lol, let's send this screen in the gtnh discord

Lol yeah thatd be funny af

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 10:07 PM

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sharp carbon

Is that some internal corruption?

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 10:08 PM

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sharp carbon <@353593948523986945>

Btw how many years did it take to load into the game

sharp carbon Nov 12, 2025, 10:08 PM

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not that long actually

analog berry Nov 12, 2025, 10:08 PM

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Damn

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They did improve load times in 2.8 ig

wraith surge Nov 12, 2025, 10:09 PM

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yes

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a lot

#Astral

if linux && !defined(ANDROID)

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

define HAVE_MNTENT 1

endif

if defined(_WIN32) || defined(OS2)

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

endif

if defined(astral)

define FFI_MMAP_EXEC_WRIT 1

endif