Typhoon HOTAS By Falcon Matter

[cunning eagle]

Still WIP

[steel tartan]

Count me. I am waiting

[cunning eagle]

General Info - Auto Throttle Function , Hall sensors used, Detachable Throttle Grips -> Interchangeable for other Grips = Modularity, Engine Start/Stop System like in the real jet. Manual Friction Adjustment / ECFA (Electronically Controlled Friction adjustment, used in the real jet)

Auto Throttle - Only in the Advanced Version, not included in the standard kit.
ECFA - Only in the Advanced Version, not included in the standard kit.

[cunning eagle]

Still really early till release, but getting there!

There was a minor overseeing that I've fixed today - there was a 3 way hat missing on the right throttle, fixed now, getting further with development. Made a connector system, it uses 36 DuPont connections tightly packaged together, they are later on screwed together to connect the grips to the base. I am opting for a more quick release system tho, so that will be revisited.

[steel tartan]

are you share your files for free or with price ? i was tried to copy eurofighter hotas but i am not skilled for solid or someting apps. I will glad to see your model.

[limpid talon]

Lookin gucci, man

[cunning eagle]

Thx!

[cunning eagle]

Well this will be a hotas you can buy later on, it will bea physical product

The cheapest non motorised version will be around 140 eur

Resin casted

It may all chanfe

Change

Ill discuss it with my team, and may share some peices with you

[last folio]

I don't know what market niche you guys are going for in terms of price point, but considering that, were this to release now, it would be the only EF HOTAS currently available, it might make sense to think about making different versions from different materials.

Other than that, I think it looks great so far. Can't wait to see how this develops.

[steel tartan]

great i am waiting

[cunning eagle]

Yes this is exactly what we are doing, we are planning on having 3 versions, low mid and high fidelity, low fidelity is mostly abs plastic and resin. Only a few metal parts, doesnt have working motorised auto throttle and a manual friction adjustment. Mid fidelity has better materials and better sensors. This should be competetive to something like the warthog. High fidelity has a working auto throttle. Electronically controled friction adjustment (real life), that can be mounted onto a simpit panel. Basically all metal.

Another thing is, idk if ive mentioned it, the grips are swappable and will be compatible with other grips in the future that we may sell, we are propably gonna release the pinout for the connectors and their cad files. So people can have their own grips. Like the f35 or basically anything you want and you prefer. Our grips will be a high density resin cast for low and mid fidelity, and a metal cast for high fidelity (still researching if the real one is resin or metal, some jets have that and others have that. Its hard to tell sometimes.)

Shit this is an essay lol

[last folio]

Sounds interesting. I am eager to find out more that's for sure.

[cunning eagle]

We are going consumer level, but offer very high quality too

[cunning eagle]

What would be a suitable price for the low and mid fidelity versions in your opinion? Since those are targeted towards the most of the community?

Im just trying to get some data here.

[last folio]

It really depends I think. If the low fidelity's main appeal is "looks like a Typhoon throttle" then the feature it has to have to be a feasible HOTAS throttle are a slew sensor analogue stick.
And from what I can tell, manufacturers are able to offer that at a very affordable price point (see T 16000).

Mid fidelity, I would consider to be up to 200 USD/EUR. Resin is acceptable in my opinion.

High fidelity (imo) is anywhere north of 300. And the materials on this unit I prefer to be metal anywhere I will be touching during regular use of the peripheral.

[cunning eagle]

Well all of the versions replicate the detents which can be set by the user. Low fidelity will have proper high quality buttons and a 2 axis + push analogue stick. It is all about the materials and extra functions really

Also it is a dual throttle that can be connected and disconnected from eachother, so it is comparable maybe to the x56 throttle

Also, they all use abs, for grips even on low fidelity, we will use high density resin, which feels much more rigid, solid and nice

[last folio]

Then I am confused as to how you will be able to turn a profit aiming for the most saturated market sector in flight sim peripherals, I have to be honest.

[cunning eagle]

For low fidelity, i was thinking of a price around the 140 eur mark

Maybe a bit lower, we still dont have a stable manufacturing price

[last folio]

If we are looking at the throttle alone, with all those switches staying the same across the three versions you are planning, I don't see how this is possible.

[cunning eagle]

The switches dont stay the same

[last folio]

Oh, that's what that read like. Then yes, I can see that happening.

[cunning eagle]

Their feel and tactileness improves over the versions, i said that wrong above, sorry.

But they wont feel cheap ass on the low fidelity, like some other cheaper throttles do

We want high quality for everything, we stand for thst

For the mid fidelity, the price you estimated is something around what i was thinking.

[last folio]

You guys have a website or something one can look at? Or any previous products you made?

[cunning eagle]

And high fidelity will be a bit more, the metal cast has to be cnc milled after its casted, it has complex geometry.

[cunning eagle]

This is still very new, this is our first product, we are also working on a replica f16 base

But a website should be up soon

[last folio]

Throttle?

[cunning eagle]

Working on it, weve been busy with the model

Force sensing base

Works with the thrustmaster grip standard aka the warthog, cougar and any other grips compatible with the warthog baae work with it

It would be a nonsense to have a different connector

[last folio]

That's certainly an in demand product, seeing as winwing and Realsimulator are owning that niche completely at the moment.
If it is possible to bring something on the market that is competitive in price to Winwing and isn't attached to ridiculous shipping costs, that would certainly be a winner imo.

[cunning eagle]

The only base, that "kinda" actually has the dimensions of the real thing is called the VFS-WE, the angles on it are all wrong, its too high, etc. We want to fix that

So it can actually fit into a simpit properly. Ofcourse, a version for desktop will be avaliable too

I will use this thread as something like an update channel.

[last folio]

Right. In my opinion, what is important for joystick bases are longevity, sensor quality, and the stick that goes on it.
Nobody touches the joystick base as there are no switches on it, and the number of people dropping these into properly dimensioned Sim pits compared to desk top users is miniscule, so if this were my product and I would want this to be a competitive product, I would throw this idea of realistic dimensions out the window and design something that is compact enough to

1. build a high quality, long lasting stick base
2. build a base that is more affordable than the competition while offering a comparable level of performance.

[wicked crypt]

I searched flyability systems to see if there was a website before reading the thread and i got taken to a drone companies website and was so confused. super cool looking throttle though and i’m excited for its development

[cunning eagle]

Well why not have the same travel dimensions, and etc etc. The throttle would be werid to use cause, for example, the grips have a very specific shape, id they arent atleast very simmiliar to that, people would have a hard time pressing all the buttons and being precise with the control of the throttle, in terms of development, it actually simplifies stuff

[cunning eagle]

We are still working on a website, sorry!

[steep blade]

Hi! looks super groovy. Is this your first public project? I know you mentioned no website up yet, so i figure it is?

[cunning eagle]

Yes thats right

Any tips would be really appreciated

[steep blade]

None on my end, was just curious if you had any other past work I could check out because the Eurofighter throttle looked so rad 😄

[last folio]

The parts of the grip and throttle that you touch, ie. the grips, need to be the correct dimensions of course. However I was talking about the outside dimensions of the stick base.

[cunning eagle]

The size of the throttle base should be very simmiliar to the reak thing, it has the same travel too

[last folio]

I was talking about the joystick base. And so were you originally. I don't know how we ended up talking about the throttle base.

[balmy prairie]

Looks good

[cunning eagle]

Oh lol, i was talking about the throttle, the stick isnt even in development yet, sorry for that misscommunication. Yes, the base will be very likely smaller aka a different size, theres not rlly a point in making it a replica there. We want to achieve the gimballed force sensing feel, which we are still doing research on.

[cunning eagle]

We are currently researching further details about the throttle, our base dimensions were a bit inaccurate in the old version, working on a new one, which can be mounted to a real life panel too and still be usable for normal consumers, also configurable detents will be added, you can now set the placement of the detent, and the overcome force a.k.a the force required to go past it, will provide pics later

[cunning eagle]

The V2! (the proper materials still arent placed)

the casing is made out of bent sheet metal

[limpid talon]

the circular things that are surrounding the slots where the throttle grips get mounted, are they bolts or rivets?

I assume they're bolts, but just want to make sure as the picture quality makes me question between the 2

[cunning eagle]

you mean this?

[limpid talon]

nonono, around the slot

[cunning eagle]

everything is bolts, no rivets afaik

oh yea

[limpid talon]

these

[cunning eagle]

thats bolts

[limpid talon]

oki oki

[cunning eagle]

what it does is secure the two top covers to the base

and then 2 bigger ones for each one, and that holds the labeling of the detents

[limpid talon]

mhm I see, thanks for clarifying

[last folio]

So this is a render, not a working prototype correct?

[cyan wren]

Yeah it is, hence the comment on materials

[last folio]

No, the project itself. Like no physical unit exists yet

[cunning eagle]

not yet, but we are working on it, this is the V2 the V1 had some problems in terms of the casing, V2 is solving that, when we are happy with what we have, we will build a prototype

any feedback from you guys will be very appreciated!

[last folio]

Ok, I have another question in that case. Is this intended for both sim pit and desktop users or sim pit only?

[cunning eagle]

both indeed

can be mounted into a panel but used on a desk mount or a desk by itself

it is modular

[cyan wren]

Looks quite big for a desk

[cunning eagle]

yes its not the smallest throttle out there, its 1:1 in terms of travel lenghts, etc...

you would have to compromise your precision greatly without the 250mm travel

[cyan wren]

hmm

[cunning eagle]

im just trying out renders here lol

[cunning eagle]

oh also, if you havent read the whole thing, the handles (grips) can be swapped for different ones

[last folio]

How tall is the base of the throttle?

[last folio]

I know, I read the whole thread so far.

[cunning eagle]

im considering making the slim version

[last folio]

That's the height? 111 mm

[cunning eagle]

but that wouldnt be motorised

111mm is the motorised version

you need to fit a lot of sutff there

[last folio]

How is the motorisation going to work? I am guessing it is going to be a horizontally fitted axle with a thread?

[cunning eagle]

if there was a thread you wouldnt be able to move the throttle yourself, it will be mounted on a pulley belt system, or the stepper will move with the handles, which could make the package smaller, i still havent decided, ill post updates

[last folio]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think I would ever spend the extra money for a feature like that. To me, a motorised throttle lever/handle just doesn't have that much utility.

[cunning eagle]

it is intended for simpit builders, ik that this can be very hard to understand since we are making changes all the time. imma make a post explaining everything

[last folio]

It's not hard to understand at all, I am just slightly confused because just earlier you said it was intended for both...

[cunning eagle]

yes ofc, it is intended for both, there are more versions - the low, mid and high fidelity versions

[fleet trench]

Do you have a rough cost for each version? Or will that be considered later?

[last folio]

Ah, so if I understand you correctly now, the full fidelity version (if you want to call it that) will be too tall to comfortably use on a desk.

[fleet trench]

That’s what I understand on what has been said

[cunning eagle]

Falcon Matter HOTAS UPDATE- After todays meeting, we have settled on this decision - All the versions -> Low Fidelity (As of now called LF), Middle Fidelity (MF) and High Fidelity (HF) are going to be the same size. A simple desk mount clamp will be an option when checking out, this desk mount would allow for comfortable use and adjustment of the position of the throttle. A slim version WILL be included, only for the MF version tho, it would be cost inefficient to have it for the low fidelity as it requires a different manufacturing approach (we may settle on a Slim Low fidelity too tho). Slim version sadly comes with some shortcomings ill list later.

Prices (Very rough estimate)
Falcon Matter HOTAS Series LF Throttle - 140-160 USD
Falcon Matter HOTAS Series MF Throttle - 220 - 240 USD
Falcon Matter HOTAS Series HF Throttle - 390 or more USD

EF2000 Adjustable Desk Clamp - 40 - 60USD - it works on Aluminium extrusions, so you can mount other stuff on it too + it allows for forward/backward positioning for the correct hand placement

Falcon Matter HOTAS Series MF "Slim" Throttle - 220 - 240 USD (A lot may change here)

Those are our statements for now.

Thanks to everyone following this thread!

@last folio @fleet trench @cyan wren - thx!

Addition - All the bases will be made from aluminium, ensuring a stable and a durable base. Most of the changes will be in terms or the grips internals and functions of the throttle itself.

[cyan wren]

If you can live up to those price estimates, even remotely, you should be in a very good place. From what I have seen so far, if executed correctly, should be very good. Interested to see how this goes.

[cunning eagle]

We are working on a website, expect a link soon!

[steep blade]

I’m super keen to follow this project and see how it develops! Much respect and I can’t wait to see where you go from here

[cunning eagle]

Thanks for the support!

[cunning eagle]

Will come with progress soon! Stay tuned.

Also, is there something that you feel is missing on the market in terms of flight simulation?

[steep blade]

Separate from a Eurofighter HOTAS, you mean?

[cunning eagle]

Yes

[steep blade]

Hm. I’ve always felt like the F-16 throttle world could use a bit of love. If you don’t want winwing and you want detents, you’re a little SOL

[cunning eagle]

Thats right, actually, that would be a great addition to the F-16 Series, thanks for the tip!

We were thinking about making something simmiliar to what (correct me here) winwing does with their F18 display and ufc combo, but for the EF2000 and the viper

[steep blade]

Oooh that would be rad

https://i.redd.it/winwings-f-18-ufc-hud-controls-190-55-v0-pu0vjhv8u5z81.jpg?s=e1323c0373f298ba04ca7735f16f1cc8d8b1944d

You mean this thing?

[cunning eagle]

Yes, they also sell it with the mfds if im right

So something like this, realisticaly scaled for the viper and the eurofighter.

[steep blade]

Ah yeah and like a frame

[cunning eagle]

The ef is a super cool platform, a shitton of switxhes there lol

[steep blade]

It looks rad as heck

[cunning eagle]

Also you got switches with displays under them

[steep blade]

The EF2000

Ah that’s super cool

And there’ll be a lot of demand for stuff for it once that module eventually comes out, I’m sure

[cunning eagle]

Yes, thats why we do it lmao

Also its kind of filling the gap in the market

What modules do you fly?

Or let me be more exact, do you play dcs?

[steep blade]

I fly DCS a bit, the Tomcat and the Jeff, although I’m very much still learning both. The vast majority of my time in flight sims is flying the F-16 in BMS

[cunning eagle]

Thats cool!

[last folio]

I don't really see how it is filling a gap at the moment as there isn't a Typhoon in a combat flight simulator just yet, but if it does come out eventually, then yes, you'd be the first people to be doing a Typhoon HOTAS publicly.

[cunning eagle]

Thats what i meant, were just starting early rather than late

[steep blade]

There’s definitely something to be said for being a recognizable name by the time the module hits early access

[steep blade]

for sure! how about you?

I see you own a Cougar HOTAS so I assume you fly either the F-16 or the Jeff?

[cunning eagle]

Im a viper guy lol

I also fly the MiG21

I tried the jeff, a very interesting aircraft, but i never got around to buy it

[steep blade]

nice nice

is your Cougar stock?

happy to push to #💬diy if you want to not clutter this channel, I've just been curious how people mod their cougars because it's been on my mind lately, I want to give mine lift-over detents 😄

[cunning eagle]

Sure

[cyan wren]

Winwing already make that, so I wouldn't say there is a hole

[steep blade]

See: “if you don’t want winwing” in the message you replied to 😄

Let’s hop over to #💬everything because I don’t want to diss one maker in another’s channel, that feels like poor form 😄

[cunning eagle]

If im correct winwing makes a linear throttle tho, right?

[steep blade]

No their F-16 throttle has detents

Like actual F-16 style

[cunning eagle]

Oh thst was realsim then

[steep blade]

Yes

Realsim does a linear throttle

And like one other company that doesn’t even tell you the price of the product on their website and insists it’s for military and professional use

[cunning eagle]

Whos that?

Reiser?

[steep blade]

Bugeye Technologies. I’m actually not familiar with reiser

[cunning eagle]

Oh bugeye, yea, they r expensive af ol

[cunning eagle]

From now on, this channel will be used for everything related to FaIcon Matter, all I can say, loads of stuff is coming in the next few days!

Ps. Items featured will be related to these modules - F14A/B Tomcat (Both rio and pilot), AV8B Harrier, F16C, JF-17

Im not sure if we should release products all together or each at time, i guess ill let yall decide.

[fleet trench]

I can make an official channel for you

1 moment

[last folio]

@cunning eagle is there like a website or a social media account yet?

[cunning eagle]

Awesome

[cunning eagle]

We are working on it, doing our best.

[ornate abyss]

Are you working on a stick aswell?

[cyan wren]

#falcon-matter

[cunning eagle]

Yes

[ornate abyss]

Nice! I look forward to seeing the finished product.

[trim solstice]

not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I sw that the throttle has ECFA, and I was wondering how it is implemented, or how any level of controllable friction is implemented on any throttle?

Please let me know if I would be better off posting this elsewhere...

[cunning eagle]

#falcon-matter this is our official thread

ill answer there

[cunning eagle]

EF2000 HOTAS By Falcon Matter