1996 Ford Mustang V6 3.8L; Stalls on throttle

[misty thunder]

One glimmer of good fortune, there are some sets on close out for cheap https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1996,mustang,3.8l+v6,1134201,engine,timing+chain+&+component+kit,5756

[tired escarp]

yea but if its the cam im cooked lol

do i have to pull the engine to get to the timing chain?

[misty thunder]

Can be done in vehicle, does involve dropping oil pan https://charm.li/Ford/1996/Mustang V6-232 3.8L/Repair and Diagnosis/Engine%2C Cooling and Exhaust/Engine/Timing Components/Timing Cover/Service and Repair/

And instructions on the chain: https://charm.li/Ford/1996/Mustang V6-232 3.8L/Repair and Diagnosis/Engine%2C Cooling and Exhaust/Engine/Timing Components/Timing Chain/Service and Repair/

[misty thunder]

And this guy has some good content of taking it apart https://youtu.be/AToX-tHUDkg?si=pwBcH2Y9HwweekVL

[delicate bloom]

For sure I wrecked mine at 270k and the input shaft on the trans you could wobble back and fourth almost half an inch 😅

[delicate bloom]

No it’s tight but once you remove some of the stuff in front of the engine it’s possible

[last valley]

That haynes manual or whatever its called also super helpful

[tired escarp]

Hey what all needs to come off to get to the timing chain ?

Its not in the video and tbh I'd rather not take off things I don't have too

[misty thunder]

1. Disconnect battery ground cable and drain cooling system.
2. Remove air cleaner and air intake duct.
3. Remove cooling fan assembly.
4. Remove drive belts.
5. Remove water pump pulley.
6. Remove power steering pump mounting bracket bolts. Leave hoses connected and position pump assembly aside.
7. Remove A/C compressor support bracket. Leave compressor in place.
8. Disconnect coolant bypass hose and heater hoses at water pump and upper radiator hose at thermostat housing.
9. Remove hold-down clamp and lift camshaft synchronizer from front cover.
10. Raise and support vehicle.
11. Remove crankshaft pulley using crankshaft damper remover T85P-6316-D and vibration damper removal adapter T82L-6316-B, or equivalents.

NOTE: If the vibration damper and the pulley are separated, mark them so that they may be reassembled in the same position. They are balanced as a unit.

12. Remove oil filter, then disconnect lower radiator hose from water pump.
13. Remove oil pan from engine.

That is the first bit of it

[delicate bloom]

I thought the 3.8l crank pulley wasn’t pressure fitted?

Nah I’m thinking of the Hyundai 🥲

[tired escarp]

What gaskets do I need to buy

Timing set just came in

[misty thunder]

Timing cover gasket set should do https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1996,mustang,3.8l+v6,1134201,engine,timing+cover+gasket,5484

I’d expect a local auto parts store to have something like this on the shelf, be very surprised if they didn’t

[tired escarp]

@misty thunder

So uh you wanna guess what the issue is? I have it all taken apart

[tired escarp]

And water pump

@delicate bloom

@last valley u gonna wanna c this 😭

[last valley]

See what

[tired escarp]

This 💀

[last valley]

Looks mint if you squint

Looks like a nice little overhaul as long as nothing is completely cracked. Like the block lmao

[misty thunder]

That’s some carnage

[tired escarp]

😅

I was pretty frustrated by the end of the night because all the studs were stuck

I didn't look any further than that

I just took a shower and went to bed lol

[tired escarp]

Bro squinting you can still see the huge chunk missing lmao

[last valley]

Nah nah thats just one of them lightweight gears for aerodynamics

Wonder what caused it though

[tired escarp]

What?

Lmao

That's the gear for the cam

[last valley]

Its a joke lol

[tired escarp]

Ik but like

How tf did the chain snap and gear shatter

[last valley]

Any of the valves bent?

[tired escarp]

Idk

Any way to check without pull the heads?

The engine is non resistance so theoretically the timing can't mess them up

[last valley]

I mean honeslty if you are that far into it without the heads off

You should definitely take them off to check

If nothing is bad just new head gasket and other small gaskets

They have a kit

[misty thunder]

He uh…. Just replaced them

I really hope those heads don’t need to come off, for the sake of this poor dude

[tired escarp]

This

😭😭

@misty thunder do you think I can get away with re using this cover?

My papaw damaged it a little when I asked him to help lol he just shoved a flathead into it and started hitting it 😭

[last valley]

Honestly if id like the car to run a while

Id want it to be in good condition

[tired escarp]

I'm saying it it reusable or not

Also how do I get the bottom sprocket off

[last valley]

You like just barely added it or when? Idk looks kinda used lol

I wouldnt take my chances with it unless you dab some kind of rtv on it but even then. Peace of mind of a mind one is better

I used felpro or whatever its called

[tired escarp]

Yea its the old one, I was wondering if it was still ok to put back on with those little dings

Like with new gasket ofc -probably stacked with a thin layer of red gasket glue

[last valley]

No dont use the old one

[tired escarp]

You think it won't seal?

[last valley]

I mean could be a easy way for it to fail

[tired escarp]

Bro what are you saying 😭 what other way were you thinking it would fail?

[long dew]

Honestly, I would hit it lightly with a flap wheel and send it

Just throw some black RTV on as well to take up the chips

[tired escarp]

alr

i gotta buy the rtv anwyay since there isnt a gasket for the seal between the oil pan and timing cover

[long dew]

You're looking for black/grey RTV in your case, please don't use red or blue 😭

[tired escarp]

lmao

[tired escarp]

Should have the seals tomorrow afternoon

Unless the parts store decides they wanna fuck me over again

Can't believe I had to leavey motor apart for a week

[long dew]

I almost had that issue with mine, but I'm lucky my dad is a parts hoarder, the crossover pipe got stuck in my water pump when I was doing the intake gasket so he ended up using a pipe fitting and tapping threads in the pump, then using a piece of heater hose to extend that piece of broken pipe back up to the crossover

It's too bad though, said stock water pump is now leaking due to one of the ears breaking off (might have over tightened it idk) and I will have to cut threads into the new one when it is replaced

[tired escarp]

How bad is it leaking?

if its not horrible you can use some high temp jb weld until you get the chance to fix it

[long dew]

It's more like a mild seep, but it's big enough that as I drive some coolant usually soaks the timing cover/block, I'll just keep it topped up lol, it's barely leaking compared to the intake gasket

[tired escarp]

.

bro replace that poor intake gasket

[long dew]

It broke after I replaced the gasket, I'm saying the water pump isn't leaking as bad as the intake gasket was when it was leaking so I'm not too worried about it

[tired escarp]

Yea fuck this

I'm done for now

The timing set wasnt the immediate issue it was just a consequence

The camshaft is completely stuck

So yea I'm assuming the camshaft got stuck then the chain pulled on the gear causing it so shatter then the chain broke in half after it got caught between the shattered gear and crank gear

I have no idea how or why it's stuck and it started raining right after I found this out

My only guess is a bearing but I think even if it was the bearing the power of the crank would've tore through the remains of the bearing before shattering the gear so

@misty thunder

Any ideas why a camshaft would get stuck?

It didn't overheat so warpage is likely out of the equation

[misty thunder]

Ouch. This is rough, @tired escarp You’ve been a solid trooper so far for taking on some pretty advanced project and I couldn’t be more proud of you for jumping in with both feet! The cam getting stuck, taking a shot in the dark, could be a pushrod that got bent/stuck and is impeding the movement of a camshaft lobe. Sadly, the only way to really know is start disassembling again, which is a frustrating position to be in, I 100% understand.

[tired escarp]

Probably gonna start on it today

[tired escarp]

Got the cam out

It was seized in, anyway from what I can see; the very frost cam bearing along with the cam retainer welded the cam in place

First bearing is shot and there is a groove about 1/4 inch deep in the back side of the retainer along with a ton of shavings between the retainer and cam

[peak knot]

@misty thunder I know I’m like several months late; but I think you’re referring to Voltage Drain which can cause issues everywhere.
I build police; install all the equipment, lights, radars, cameras ect. Mostly Whelen equipment when it comes to electrical. Our boss is having us do Whelen’s online training and I learned about it the other day.

[peak knot]

@tired escarp Been reading up on your Mustang convo with Airz since your first post. Are you still trying to get it running?
I don’t have any solutions, just wanted to say that I’m sorry you got duped into a Lemon. I know how it feels because the car I have now had bad/seized Lifters and were rubbing on the camshaft, spewing metal shavings into the engine block.
I learned that buying a used vehicle, even if it’s from a large legitimate dealer; you should always have it checked out before signing. Luckily the salesman said they would pay to fix it… BUT… after the service manager recommended the engine be replaced, the Higher Ups said to replace the bad Lifters since the camshaft was not damaged. With the amount of metal shavings found, they can’t guarantee to get it all clean… I’m pretty sure I have another bad Lifter/s. Although it doesn’t Tick as loud as it did b4, it still has a Tick.
Unfortunately, they DID say they would pay for it, but they used all of my TA insurance money that I purchased at signing to help cover their costs. And after car payment, insurance, regular maintenance and gas, I can’t afford to have it looked at or fixed.
I hope you get your car running smoothly!!!

[tired escarp]

Yea man I'm still trying 😭

[peak knot]

My very first car was a 1991 5.0 Mustang, Auto Transmission with a Fox Body(with the long spoiler) straight piped from the headers and the interior trim was Saleen (ODO ect). It looked and sounded great but I also didn’t do any research or have it checked first. The gear ratio was set for top speed and was literally gutless of the line. 1st & 2nd slipped a lot, until one day it took several attempts to get it into drive. The guy I bought it from knew it had issues and knew I didn’t know anything about cars. He put in a Slap Shift style gear shifter(obviously didn’t do it right), it leaked oil like someone puking 🤮 after running a mile(I once parked on an incline for an hour and ALL of it drained out). It was the best worst car I ever had!

[tired escarp]

Ngl I would much rather have these issues

[tired escarp]

Hey guys

Getting back to it, I've been saving up some cash and I've got about $400 to get another cam, cam bearings, and timing cover bolts.

And the cam retainer

Maybe a new throttle cable idk yet

Hopefully sitting hasn't caused any damage because the intake and valve covers have been off

@misty thunder

When I put the cam in how do I get it past the lifters?

And the leftover money will be going towards some rims and tires

[tired escarp]

How do I locate a vacuum leak

I keep getting a maf code and I've replaced the MAF and intake

But I hear the vacuum leak I just cant for the life of me find it

And it's making my car stall

I've got everything else done though

[misty thunder]

Oh sweet - sorry I never came back to this! For your vacuum leak: while engine is idling, carefully spray starting fluid around the intake manifold, vacuum hoses, anywhere there are joints or seals that could be compromised and allow airflow through. When you find the leak, the engine will rev up slightly

[long dew]

Lmfao, just dealt with this on mine, starting fluid everywhere where there will be air after the throttle body (lower intake, brake booster, injectors, where lower and upper meet, china walls at the valley, etc) and the idle will change in some way (in my case it decreased)

If you think a device connected to the intake might be an issue, get some vacuum caps at an auto parts store and just go through capping and checking them all

[tired escarp]

Wdym by this

[earnest lava]

GG @tired escarp, you just advanced to level 13! Chat more to level up and earn top roles!

[tired escarp]

Btw @misty thunder

Wanna see what it looks like now?

🙂

[misty thunder]

Yeah!

[long dew]

Putting caps on in place of various things on the intake basically disables that section of the intake that utilizes vacuum. If idle improves, you know that's probably the cause. Also, if you can unplug the IAC valve and the car continues to idle, you haven't fixed the leak

[tired escarp]

That last part is really helpful ngl

[tired escarp]

@misty thunder look

All I need now aesthetically is headlights because mine are cooked

And they are making it hard to see at night ngl

Even brand new Sylvania LED bulbs didn't help my case 😭

[tired escarp]

@misty thunder u alive bro?

[misty thunder]

Sorry mate, busy day at work. Nice work so far though! Glad you getting it squared away, new headlights will make a big difference

[tired escarp]

You remember what it looked like B4 right

Also it's alr

[vapid parcel]

v6 activity's

[tired escarp]

I mean it's a v6 so

Also I took it off because I got tired of cleaning them (I live on a dirt road)