2008 dodge charger EV/hybrid swap

[pine belfry]

Basically what the title sounds like. I'm swapping a 08 charger with a model S motor, model 3 batteries, a volt motor, and a Honda engine

[weary socket]

Ew

[pastel torrent]

sounds like a blast

[cunning python]

goddamn.

[pine belfry]

Transmission well and back seat is being removed. Got to make room for that battery

Also battery and motor

[old crow]

dayum

[rose raptor]

[shy cargo]

dam

OP, this is one of the more interesting builds going on rn. Excited to see how it turns out personally.

[cyan kite]

I’ve been waiting for you to make a page man

[shy cargo]

So yo'ure sticking both a model s motor and a honda engine?

[pine belfry]

Yes. The model S motor is going to be the RWD drivetrain and the Honda engine with volt transmission is going to be the FWD drivetrain. The volt transmission is a dual motor planetary system so when the clutch is engaged it does hybrid drive in the front and electric in the rear and when the clutch is disengaged it does full electric drive in both front and rear.

[shy cargo]

Damn

Bro i'm lost

All i know is that it's gonna be sick

I'll try and follow along, still excited to see how this turns out lol

[pine belfry]

Here is a simplified diagram of how a hybrid drive planetary system works

The ring gear is the final output

@shy cargo

[shy cargo]

Ohh ok

That makes more sense

Thanks for the graphic @pine belfry

[pine belfry]

@shy cargo
When the clutch is disengaged the planet carrier spins with the electric motors, effectively combining both motors. When the clutch is engaged it allows the electric motor on the green gear to effectively act as transmission to speed up or slow down the planet gears rotation speed, converting be engine speed to torque or toque to speed.

It's a really simple and elegant system that allows for you to easily switch between electric drive and hybrid drive while having very few moving parts.

[late jungle]

Interesting idea, i wonder how it will look once it's done

[pine belfry]

The rear is going to be a smyth ute kit and the front is going to be a custom hood and bumper that looks something like the picture.

[late jungle]

That will be sick

[vocal junco]

This is honestly the last thing I thought I'd see done to a charger, but its a very cool idea! I have no idea how this hybrid ev stuff works but I actually wanted to put a hybrid drivetrain in my weird little honda at some point.
I hope the project works out well! You just don't see tuff like this, but with every project of similar nature that comes up I have to say, this definitely makes me see hybrids in a new light.

[pine belfry]

Normally with conversions I don't do hybrid drive systems but I do want it to be able to have towing capability and doing that on a 54kwh battery is just not realistic. This would be my 4th EV conversion though. EV being a very relative term here. The trick is getting the 2 motors in the front to cooperate with the engine. Chevy already doesn't do the best job at this. As far as the programming goes I'm going to try to make it work closer to a Prius than the volt in hopes that I can keep it above 30mpg. The volt has a bad habit of not utilizing it's battery as a proper energy buffer when driving on engine which really hurts it's MPG.

[pine belfry]

I finally got access to the project cars tab to post it.

[short rivet]

Hmm...

[pine belfry]

I now have the controller for the volt motor and my job gave me a volt engine and motor for free.

Now I just need to hack it and get it to start the engine. still using Honda engine though because the volt engine is undersized and has a blown head gasket. It's good for testing though. Rather blow up a fucked engine than a good engine if I do something wrong.

[elfin galleon]

Holy shit this actually is fucking cool

This makes electric cars seem good

[pine belfry]

They are good. It's the extra shit that makes all modern cars suck that makes EVs bad.

[rose raptor]

stop

[pine belfry]

Stop what?

[rose raptor]

stop sign

[pine belfry]

Okay?

[elfin galleon]

Literally child

[rose raptor]

how am i a child

[cunning python]

lol this guy's just bringing us along for the ride XD

[tawny pivot]

I wanna see this shit bro

[broken ferry]

Don't like EVs but this sounds cool

[pastel torrent]

the EV Dodge should have built

[eternal oasis]

What honda engine? B,D,H,F,J

K?

[tawny pivot]

Hybrid Dodge finna be cool as hell

[broken ferry]

Even better they shouldn't

[pine belfry]

Yes

Finally redoing the wiring on the battery

For perspective this was the original wiring I did

New wiring comes in strands of 4 rather than individual wires so there are far fewer loose wires dangling off the battery. Before it had 26 (24 probes and 2 grounds) wires per battery, now it has 7 (6 probes and 1 ground).

[pine belfry]

Outside of the truck part, this is very close to what the Daytona concept is. The biggest difference drivetrain wise is the engine works more as a power source rather than putting power to the wheels.

[eternal oasis]

Youre lying

Thats dope af

[pine belfry]

The k series is more than likely what I'm going to go with. I'm going to try it with the volt engine first but I don't know if the volt engine can make enough power to still be efficient.

[pine belfry]

Just curious, anyone want the links to the control board hardware I use to make these components work outside of their extended car?

[cunning python]

good shit nice attention to detail m8 that's when you know it's a quality build

[pine belfry]

Yeah, still wish I didn't have to take the Tesla ones off. They use a ribbon cable but it is welded to both the battery and BMS. There is no way to connect my BMS to it without breaking the welds so here we are

[naive frost]

@pine belfry

This truly is an unorthodox econobox

[whole silo]

soooo ..question. .. would you leave the dodge wheels and axle with tesla engine

And would you put battery ,,in the trunk area or under the car?

[lament knoll]

GG @whole silo, you just advanced to level 5! Chat more to level up and earn top roles!

[pine belfry]

The axles have to be custom made but the wheels are fine provided they aren't beat to hell like the ones I have. The wheels are rated for the weight and power so it's fine.

[pine belfry]

2 battery modules are going down the transmission well and the other 2 are going in the gas tank area.

[pine belfry]

We got a engine

Well engine and "transmission" (it's more of an electric motor than it is a transmission)

[zinc seal]

How do you plan on integrating the electric and ICE systems

This looks like an awesome project

[naive frost]

Duct tape, a couple beers, and a few buddies

[pine belfry]

The transmission that is on the engine already does that job. That was the part I wanted, the engine just came attached to it. The transmission has a clutch in it that disengages the engine entirely for electric drive and when doing hybrid drive the electric motor in it still controls the drive speed, it just uses another electric motor to convert the engine's power to the output to match the speed of the drive motor through a planetary gear similar to the diagram above.

[pine belfry]

Got the "transmission" off, holy fuck that thing is heavy. The engine weighs next to nothing though.

[zinc seal]

Oh thats sick cant wait to see the progress

[pine belfry]

Yep, total output of that transmission is about 250hp

About 3X more power than the engine that came off of it.

[silver hound]

Pro tip touching one of thoes batterys hurts alot

[pine belfry]

I'm touching it right now. Doesn't hurt at all

[silver hound]

turn on the elecricness and touch one of the ends with metal

i was working on a priuis battery and youch

[pine belfry]

The battery in question is a model 3 battery. It's always live all the time. That is a live 100v battery that I'm touching.

[pine belfry]

Yeah, I work in hybrid repair so I have had my fair share of dealing with them. Never been shocked by them before.

[steady crag]

Bro, I wanna see the documentation for this cuz I wanna do something similar to my car

[pine belfry]

Chevy volt inverter: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt_Inverter

Tesla LDU: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S/X_Large_Drive_Unit_("LDU")

For the VCU/ECU: https://evbmw.com

BMS: https://www.orionbms.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwnei0BhB-EiwAA2xuBtbZ6rUF7GgXgLtXdOxTbut1TiXikBfXJ35raPEVqCWEuAtIwIygGhoCgVIQAvD_BwE

@steady crag

There is also a PCS controller on the evbmw page that allows for the usage of the Tesla PCS. The Tesla PCS takes 110/220v AC and converts it to 400v DC to charge the batteries along with 400v DC to 14v DC to charge the 12v.

That is all the public source I'm using. Give me enough time and I will be able to get source for a cluster OS, a few custom apps, and car play/android auto as well.

When I say I'm getting the source, I mean I'm programming it myself more accurately. Also if you look up retropilot they have gotten openPilot autopilot systems working with any car as long as you replace the steering and brake boosters.

[steady crag]

How’s the project going?

[steady crag]

What transmission is that?

[pine belfry]

Chevy volt transmission

[steady crag]

Cuz I wanna do something similar to my celica and make it a 3sgte awd hybrid

[pine belfry]

PHEV or just a standard hybrid?

[rare zenith]

Post the process on yt

[pine belfry]

i was mostly going to go through most the software when i start installing everything in the car

im not planning on going too much into the hardware just because other people already do that way better than me

[rare zenith]

Yeah

It will take long for the edit

[pine belfry]

Yeah, I'll post each component used and how they work as a short in YouTube then have a whole video going over how I made them all talk to each other

That way I don't really need to do much of any editing.

[steady crag]

Series parallel hybrid is most ideal imo

Oh that’s what you meant by phev, I’d like to, cuz then I can charge it at home and won’t have to use gas when going to the grocery store

[fast ferry]

Sir, even though I dislike electric vechiles, your skills are undoubtedly amazing.
Good luck with the build!

[zinc seal]

Its not electric tho its a hybrid

[fast ferry]

Yes

[pine belfry]

80% of the HP is electric and the transmission converts the gas power to electric power. It's effectively electric.

[marble locust]

been a couple months, hows it going

[young crystal]

Still working on it?

[eternal oasis]

This project is crazy

[steady crag]

@pine belfry yo how’s the project goin?

[pine belfry]

It's on pause for a bit until I move.

[steady crag]

👍 just wondering homie. Gl

[gray pecan]

@pine belfry

Update?

[pine belfry]

Not much but I do have access to new machinery. My work has a room size plasma cutter I can use so I'm going to use it to make the casings for all the electronics

[gray pecan]

Word word I’m super interested in the final result

[pastel torrent]

sick

[carmine gazelle]

If you make it awd that will launch insanely hard

Yes ik i got here way late😭

[pine belfry]

Eh, you didn't miss much. Most of the big stuff isn't done yet.

[carmine gazelle]

Ok good

Cuz this is interesting

[steady crag]

Know what, should do a hardware update, like what tools you’re using to bring this alive.

[pine belfry]

Believe it or not that would be a hilariously short list. The tools for working on a EV consistent of mostly just wire cutters, a soldering iron, and a laptop. Everything else is just body work and mounting related to get the stuff in the car.

[steady crag]

Huh

What background do you need to do something like this? Wanna hybridize my car, a lil hybrid rally car

[pine belfry]

If you pay me to do it I have no problems doing one. I will say the one I'm working on now is the first hybrid drive one I've done so it's a bit of "at your own risk" sort of thing. Full EVs I have done quite a few of though. As far as EVs this would be my 4th.

[steady crag]

Was this engine already made with a hybrid tranny? Or did you home brew the tranny, or did you homebrew the housing to just work? You were saying the eco does most of everything, the healthly rpms and shit, but does it automatically know? Or do you have to program that in? Sorry for the big ass block of questions

[steady crag]

I appreciate the offer, but unfortunately if something like this is being done to my car, I’m gonna be doing it, I wanna learn. At most I’ll be receiving help, hence the chunk of questions above. Like how plug and play are engines and hybrid trannies?

[pine belfry]

It more or less is seeing the hybrid systems as a glorified CVT. The only real way I can get away with that is because of how stupidly simple a hybrid transmission actually is. As far whether the engine is made for hybrid usage, technically no but it is in a few hybrid cars due to Honda using the same engines across hybrid and non-hybrid models in some vehicles.

[steady crag]

So in a sense it shouldnt be as plug and play as it is, yet it is. But still not easy, ya?

[pine belfry]

I wouldn't say shouldn't. Hybrids in general are actually a fair bit more simple than regular cars. The idea that they are something special has been a weird misconception that I think comes from the fact that a lot of people with mechanical knowledge quite frankly don't know their head from their ass when it comes to anything electrical.

[steady crag]

I’ve done some research and agree, they seem super fucking simple. I’ve looked at a Prius dual electric motor system, looks super fucking simple, yet I have no hands on, which is why I’m pestering your poor brain XD

Sorry for the rapid shotgunning of questions XD

Appreciate your time and responses

[pine belfry]

There are generally 3 types of hybrids

1. the Prius type with 2 electric motors and a planetary gear that connects them to the engine.
2. all electric drive with an engine working purely as a generator
3. basically just a normal transmission with a belt attached to one of the shafts somewhere that allows the electric motor to apply extra torque during acceleration and gear shifting.

The Prius design is really the only one worth using and the other 2 are more of designs made out of laziness more than proper engineering.

[steady crag]

Ya, there’s series, parallel and parallel series hybrids. One where the engine acts as purely as a generator, one where they both give power to the wheels and supplement eachother, then where it’s both. I’m familiar enough with the systems and some of the vocab, I just wanna know what I have to do to get all the power I can out of the system if I were to link it up to a 3sgte. I got a 88 Alltrac Celica I wanna hybridize

[pine belfry]

The battery situation as far as getting electric power is tough. Really your best option for light weight power output is going to be Prius batteries but their capacity to weight ratio is atrocious being around 70lb for 1.5kwh which scales out to be 2500lb for a battery with the same capacity of my model 3 battery which is about 500lb. It basically depends on whether you want to be able to drive it all electric with good EV range or you just want a ton of electric power added to the engine.

[steady crag]

Want like to be able to go like 50mph for like 30-45 miles, enough for the store, and have some immediate torque for off-road situations

[pine belfry]

If I had to guess with the weight and body style of the car you'd probably get somewhere between 3 and 4 miles per kwh at 50mph. Assuming it's closer to 3 that puts you at around 15kwh battery pack. What might actually be the best way to do this is buying a salvaged gen1 volt that still has its battery in it and harvesting all of the hybrid components from it.

Chevy volt has a 17kwh battery that peaks with 220hp so that is right in that range you'd be looking for and with the volt already being a hybrid most of the parts can be transferred over.

Really there is potentially a world where you could just transplant the volt straight into the Celica with the engine you want to use then replace all the controllers with open source variants for the Chevy components.

[steady crag]

Hmm

[steady crag]

But what about the awd? The Alltrac comes awd stock. I don’t mind modifying the tranny to send power to the back, but it’s a good start. Much appreciated

[pine belfry]

AWD for hybrids virtually always consist of just throwing an electric motor into the rear end and using it to drive the rear tires.

[steady crag]

Ya but, das lame. Want the ice and hybrid tranny to deliver power to all four wheels

[pine belfry]

That would leave your only option being to add an electric motor to an axle somewhere in the drivetrain which will also make it no longer possible to drive electric only.

[steady crag]

Couldn’t I just modify the tranny, add a couple gears to the shaft, modify the existing shaft add a gear there and transfer power like that? Granted tis a lotta work, but would that work?

[pine belfry]

Depends. How long do you want that transmission to last?

[steady crag]

As long as possible

[pine belfry]

Then adding the electric motor to anything before the transmission or in the transmission is not the answer. The reason you don't see hybrids have gear shifts is primarily because motors shred through the gears pretty easily.

[steady crag]

I’ll build the tranny myself, custom hybrid tranny, wanna learn

If I have too

Wait, evs don’t have diffs?

[pine belfry]

I'm telling you realistically it is not going to happen. Chevy did try this in the past with the Escalades and they were notorious for having every issue under the sun because of it.

[steady crag]

Hmm

[pine belfry]

Diffs are different because they fall more into the category of how planetaries and CVTs. They don't shift gears at all, they just split power.

But yes EVs and hybrids do typically have differentials. I say typically because there are some instances where they don't such as having quad motor drive where each wheel is on its own motor.

[silver hound]

Update me