Fix pet companions.

[brazen shore]

Sounds old enough to be able to respond rationally to our concerns

Not hide for hours

[meager plover]

yeah figured that, wondering if hes under or over 25

[brazen shore]

And exacerbate fears

[tacit bough]

In fact I can't really think of a way to fix the current situation for Lava atm lol

[fallow frost]

he be american though, likely in california or similar place ... you do see fragility in their ego way too often nowadays

[meager plover]

hmm sounds about right

[proper goblet]

Is is California, Santa Barbara area if I recall

[brazen shore]

I forget he's not from my generation, I think everyone is and get disappointed

[meager plover]

well sounds like GG then. future seems bleak for stuff from him then probably

[brazen shore]

The generation that can't be hurt by words

[meager plover]

zoomers?

[brazen shore]

I'm 41

[meager plover]

ah okay, nice

[brazen shore]

That generation whichever it is

Zoomer, boomer, doomer, coomer, lost track lol

[tacit bough]

Roll back and refund? Maybe the best way
Nerf? Lawyer letter
Increase to daily claim? Lawyer letter maybe

But anyway, people already leave. Damage already done. lol

[meager plover]

you are boomer xD

[brazen shore]

Woo boomer

[fallow frost]

at least not woomer though

[meager plover]

if lava was like 23 or something. I would still have faith in his brain developing lol

but 28ish* = GG

[deep sedge]

literally me after seeing the new update:

[brazen shore]

It's a gambit, a smaller amount may pay more to get FOMO

[meager plover]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-high-sired-sad-tired-gif-19116647

me after update

[brazen shore]

So maybe he's gambling on the mega whales before they jump ship to get more money

[meager plover]

thinking we will ever hear him from again

[brazen shore]

I can't after this update, several people I know are seriously considering quitting flat out, including me

[tacit bough]

Actually it depand. I start go crazy start around 28. Lots of idea and stuff clear out my mind.

[brazen shore]

If gacha is going to be an important part of getting features on the game and there's a risk it'll get worse not better, I'd rather go to a game with better gacha

I was here because it wasn't gacha then it slowly became gacha in w4 then this just threw it overboard

[meager plover]

I am happy I quit ages ago. the dailies* loot cycle of doing things wasnt really funny. watching the numbers go up wasnt enough. not a fan of the running around either. its just slow and clunky

[brazen shore]

Ah yes the promises that made me share the game to others

I thought they were endearing... Turns out the right word to describe them was "empty"

[smoky orbit]

Huge disappointment in Lava. Always respected him be able to cater to f2p players and whales who want to spend and push end game. Such incredible bonuses behind a $1000 pay wall is insane. Really hope he does something to fix this as this update is very grim on the future of the game

[mild zephyr]

I've already paid a 1000 dollars on this game. I've liked the monetization. But this patch is just fucking predatory and disgusting.

Not gonna pay a single dollar anymore. Fuck it.

[gaunt rampart]

What about 10 free pull everyweek, at least 1 blue every 10 pull. Pity to SSR (highest rarity) at 50 pull

since when did we get this emoji?

[sonic sedge]

a long time ago

[silk spire]

fix it

surely lava will listen (i hope)

[tacit bough]

This can be fraudulent. Using a low getting rate to get people pay for the game. And unfair to the people already pay for the king doot.

[silk spire]

just be able to convert blue gems to green gems

literally the best fix

[patent badger]

when next pet season happens people will spend this much again

game wont die and he'll continue milking

he cant face criticism

like i wonder what the fk is he going to say about this

he will probably think this is a positive update and we all are just haters

yeh and he knows it

he can milk them as long as he wants

all he has to do is 5-6 free updates then one insanely p2w one

[obsidian tulip]

skill issue if you paid for doot

[deep sedge]

i knew this sounded sketchy lol

[pastel geyser]

I have bought every deal offered in the gem shop for a couple of years. I think I may stop doing so because of the pure gacha mechanic..

If he's going to go pure profit and feed the whales, go for it.

I hate to see it if so.

[fallow frost]

essentially adding more free ways to obtain would be only safe way; as he never claimed money is only way...but someehow I doubt he will do it

[amber stream]

Did Lava release any sort of statement?

[fallow frost]

yh, nerf,rollback etc ways would allow suing if no refund is given

(and on doot, pandoras box is already open, its too late to close it)

[pastel geyser]

There are plenty of things that gave CONSIDERABLE power bumps over the last couple of years. He leaned into respawn mechanics.

The issue with me is there is no GUARANTEE. I hate the gambling aspect in a game

[fallow frost]

drop $500 and stil lfail to get it; you gonna need something like $2k for guarantee

[tacit bough]

Think about that if you already pay for 1000usd for the king doot. You expect you can open have 1 chance per weeks to get the kind doot. Therefore you pay those 1000usd for it. Now there are 10 times per week. Don’t you think it is a fraudulent?
You buy it because it is rare, the drop rate is low. If you know you can get it 10 times per week, then you probably no need to pay your cash for the king doot. From 1 to 10 times, that’s huge adjustment

[pastel geyser]

There will be exceptions. Thats what probability is

[tacit bough]

You buy the things but you didn’t get what you get. That’s the things.

[fallow frost]

imagine shilling $2k for pixels

[tacit bough]

This situation for Lava is really really hard to fix.

[fallow frost]

and if game ever closes, those pixels will turn into grand value of $0 ,instead of being imaginary value of more than $0

[rough osprey]

in germany, lootbox mechanics need to be declared. so after the update, there should be a label in germany. in belgium and netherlands it's even illegal. that's what's up to come in germany too midrange.

[tacit bough]

Although you have the Eula doesn’t mean people can’t sue you

EULA not the master key for not having every responsibility to the game

You can change things by time. For example 2 weeks later. Since people will get enough benefits from early buying. But not in a week

The successful of sue will be lower by time.

Yup, but I know a game in Japan get sue because nerfing things after release.

[tacit bough]

Because I have play that game lol

[fallow frost]

well, EU also has laws relating to lootboxes and gambling

[tacit bough]

Gambling is a things, king doot is another things. This is the two main problem with this update

[fallow frost]

and, those laws apply if game is available in area

[tacit bough]

And imagine that’s Japanese in Idleon

Just no one will sue the company if things get boost or buff lol

[fallow frost]

also, considering those laws; any players from netherlands, belgium or germany could sue lava for quite pretty penny

[tacit bough]

iOS is really strict to the gambling. Therefore I don’t really think it can pass. Since there’s no cap on the gacha

[simple laurel]

it wont be long before i have to use a vpn to play this game belgium doesnt allow gacha at all

[tacit bough]

Or apple will need to test how high or low the chance getting the king doot. Check if the formula is reasonable or stuff.

[simple laurel]

we have calc ulations we know that odds incease but still

[tacit bough]

Still low without cap

True

[simple laurel]

true

apperantly today or tomorow a new patch is gonna drop lest just see what he does

[tacit bough]

Too greedy. I can’t afford it lol

[simple laurel]

the rotation is a huge problem this can bee seen as forcing people to buy

[tacit bough]

50000 yen = 350 usd btw

[simple laurel]

problem is mostly A the price its to expensive and B the inaccesibality for ftp players

low odds dont matter if u have plenty of tries

[patent badger]

that way he wont have his 'trading sytem' he really badly wants

[tacit bough]

Lava probably will need to read all gacha related law before he make any change with the game

[patent badger]

tbh i wouldn't mind if he didn't read up and gets fucked by the law and the game dies

[tacit bough]

We know Lava probably F up

The problem is he didn’t officially announce it. Then no one know it. Right?

[fathom cape]

Hmm

Good idea

Like 3 for 20 liquid

[tacit bough]

No matter how you suggest, the people gone already gone. The damage already been done to every player.

[fathom cape]

Idleon got top 1 in gambling category because of this

Steam

[rugged agate]

Fr?

[fathom cape]

Yea

Go check

[rugged agate]

No way!

[fathom cape]

Yea

Idle on is gambling game now

According to steam users

[rugged agate]

So is gambling games un popular or is idleon super popular?

[winter hill]

P2w system ... 1 pet 7 days is very low ... pls lava not Casino 🎰 system make on the game

[fathom cape]

Idk

Maybe both

[rugged agate]

Or is idleon more efficient in getting money

Alchemy small donations? Doesn't that never reset?

[spiral cedar]

There will never be a black market in this game

Especially since youre able to literally edit game files

[sinful willow]

If we report "free to play" enough the tag should get removed

[limber dawn]

I don't think so, since steam auto tags that on games that are free, no?

[sinful willow]

Idk

[simple laurel]

bro dont be so dramatic the game is still playable now

[limber dawn]

Also that would technically be a false report anyway. Don't do that.
Leaving an accurate review is the best you can do to have an impact

[sinful willow]

I can't do more than one review.

[limber dawn]

There will be no game if this continues tho

[humble panther]

Creat another account and review again

[sinful willow]

And looking at how the updates are progressing, the game will not be good or playable for long either way

[patent badger]

maybe its for the best tbh

[patent badger]

it will save people from his money milking antics

[radiant ravine]

Well .... now we know

[pastel geyser]

The analytical side of me is curious how much $$$ this change brought in compared to normal bundle/store sales.... And how much of a 'fix' will be implemented.

The other part of me REAAAALY hates gacha mechanics. I can choose to continuously dump free-time in a game for progression, thousands of hours spread out over time even. But a system where one instance of dumping 1000's of dollars in a game can hurt someone... Will hurt someone eventually.

[rugged agate]

Yo, it's gone

[radiant ravine]

still there, just not one of the first tag (click on the +)

[rugged agate]

Oh

[rugged agate]

Anime? Lol wut

I am, I'm reporting what I noticed

[radiant ravine]

One mistake that he already did on idle skilling (by adding another paid only currency with broken buff)

[hushed grotto]

Oh yeah, a "mistake"

let's ignore the years of experiences he has

[sinful willow]

One mistake could be writing a bad line of code that makes the game crash

One mistake isn't implementing a "mechanic" that requires new paid currency

He 100% knew what he was doing

[mighty vessel]

Just to be fair here, lava doesnt (cant) code so he also cant write badlines

[frozen juniper]

Anime???

[radiant ravine]

laugh in gold exploit

[sinful willow]

This will be fun

[radiant ravine]

TLDR : a month ago there was an exploit where you could get infinite gold because of an error lava made in his code (you could trade gold for even more gold at the sailing trader)
lava punished people who exploited but it caused a drama, I will not enter too much into the detail

[nocturne pagoda]

No statement yet ? Tf is Lava doing, did he bail or what

[sinful willow]

"World 3 with 25 new npcs and 92 new quests"
And then just "world 4 and 5"

You unlock it with an artifact, w5

[nocturne pagoda]

You need an artefact for him to show up

[sinful willow]

A specific one unlocks the blobulyte

Just refresh the map then. Also go in #lategame-chat-w5🌋-w6🌸 or #idleon-gen-chat

He will appear next to the gold pile

[radiant ravine]

you need this one to get the trader

[sinful willow]

There's no need to do it over and over here, just keep it to #player-suggestions

Furthermore lava will never read this post, he'll either delete it entirely or reply to maybe the last few messages

[fallow frost]

well, this is now 4396 messages long, thats a lot to read

[terse nacelle]

Has it been fixed yet? got a 59b update lol

[brazen shore]

Oh there's an update?

I heard some people had received refunds too silently

[mighty vessel]

tbh we can really also just dumb it down and say that either lava has to introduce ways to earn green gems in game, tho it would need to me a meaningful amount so that you have a real chance to actually get the ultra rare pet of each season, increase the rate at which you get the free pets, again so that you have a realistic chance to get the ultra rare in 1 season, or nerf dood and every other pet to come.

[brazen shore]

or just remove the trading aspect

[mighty vessel]

either way, lava does have to admit he fucked up if he wants to get any form of trust back

[mighty vessel]

nah. that aint it chief.

[brazen shore]

refund everyone, as he already seems to be doing (several people have refunds of $44.99), and do it with blue gems, with more generous daily

Why else would he be refunding people, if he isn't removing green gems

No other logical answer

[mighty vessel]

the problem at hand is that you have 1 game changing pet with a realistic chance to get in around 4 years time, while the pet gets swapped around every 3 months or so.

[silk edge]

well Alex logical has left the building by this update 😉

[mighty vessel]

as long as that remains as it is, its pay to win and cant remain

[brazen shore]

I do have a question though, how will trading help, vs harm, the game. Is it a necessity, chief?

"mmoplus.com sell doot $100" spam in w1 incoming

that hopefully isn't a real website but you get the idea

[silk edge]

@brazen shore well still cheaper then farming it XD

[brazen shore]

that's the major issue lmao

[mighty vessel]

trading in and of itself is a nice enough idea but its a symptom of the problem, not the problem

[brazen shore]

the problem is when real money trading gets involved

always an issue with any MMO

that has trading

[mighty vessel]

again no, cause then the problem would be here since day 1

[brazen shore]

wrong, because there's no trading

or am I wrong?

[mighty vessel]

you "trade" money for progress

it doesn't matter who gets the money

if its a 3rd party or lava

[brazen shore]

ELI5 please...

Because whoever you pay, I'm seeing lava getting the money in the final step, I don't see any way that the final step of a site getting the money, like a chinese group, gets you gems in game without money going to lava

Please help me see how I am missing the point

[shell shale]

I doubt Lava is refunding. Google and Steam are.

[brazen shore]

That makes more sense, given lava hasn't made a post

Well that prospect makes me more sad, I thought lava was seeing sense

It's probably just google and steam looking at it with disgusted faces and going "naaah this ain't it chief"

[shell shale]

He's most likely considering his options and what changes are okay. The steam reviews are damaging, so he kind of has to address this soon

[mighty vessel]

i dont know how i am meant to help you see the point even more than i already did so... yeah, just gonna leave it here

[brazen shore]

That's....helpful

I'm pretty sure I can see there's no point and I'll leave it there

impasse averted

[mighty vessel]

only cause you can't see gravity, it doesn't exist. good logic

[brazen shore]

I thought we were leaving it here

we both agreed to leave it there

as I said, impasse averted

[mighty vessel]

difference is you deny there being a point while i say you are just ignorant. i dont argue about the point itself anymore

[brazen shore]

please stop

we are leaving it here, no need to continue on with insults

that's childish

I have not insulted you

[mighty vessel]

how is calling you ignorant an insult?

[brazen shore]

...

[mighty vessel]

would you prefer being called naive then?

[brazen shore]

just stop

we both agreed to stop, you're the only one continuing this

[mighty vessel]

as far as i see, you are still talking back, therefore continuing this discussion, no?

[brazen shore]

If it's bothering you this badly take it to my DMs

[mighty vessel]

can't have a discussion by yourself after all

[brazen shore]

There's no sense in keeping this going in here, as it's clearly bothering you

[mighty vessel]

to be fair, he had received that kind of backlash a few times ago already, for example when he introduced chips in w4 which aren't all that healthy either and there he just let everything burn till everybody stopped complaining

[compact abyss]

not this bad by far

[shell shale]

I don't think the chips compare with the pets system.

Chips are still easily obtainable by playing. More easily the further you progress

[silk edge]

the thing is.. when the "fire" is over he has lost a lots of people.. ofc some will come back.. but the trust in him... is lower now

[shell shale]

Pets are just introducing a huge unfair aspect, specially the planned rotations. If there was no rotation and new pets planned, it wouldn't be as bad imo

[mighty vessel]

ehh... chips really are a major boost to progress and given that you get 2 preselected every week with what... 70 slots in total? thats 35 weeks, over half a year and then you still dont have a optimal set with choco, card doublers, and all the misc doublers

[brazen shore]

Agreed, it's the FOMO aspect 😦

you may miss this amazing pet, quickly, throw money at the game to (have a chance to) get it

[shell shale]

Yes, but you can also buy them with gems, that you can earn f2p. You can't earn green gems

[brazen shore]

If it was around forever, sure it may take years but eventually you'll probably get it, but on rotation....10 weeks was it?

[mighty vessel]

even back then people offered many different solutions, such as being able to simply select which 2 chips to buy each week but all of it was just ignored either way

[brazen shore]

Oh, true, that's a valid point!

[mighty vessel]

yeah no. again the gacha/loot box problem. since you aren't guranteed the chips you want/need you can throw an endless amount of gems at it and still come up empty handed

[tall oar]

RMT is always going to happen if trading is involved

[brazen shore]

yup, goes back to my rant on RMT being bad 😛 but yeah in that situation it doesn't rely on trading being in game

[shell shale]

I'm a community expert, there is always going to be complaining when new systems are introduced. Not all complaining is justified and sometimes it's better to let it burn out. For the pets tho, I wouldn't suggest ignoring that as it does add a high grade of unfairness.

[tall oar]

No gacha system is excusable or forgivable at any point

[mighty vessel]

^ That

[brazen shore]

the limit for gacha should be card packs and obols

[radiant ravine]

cosmetic gacha are fine, because it don't really impact the game

[brazen shore]

we can earn them through other means, grinding etc, so no harm no foul

with extra cosmetics being acceptable as long as sthey're not on the slab

[tacit bough]

The problem is always: What option Lava able to do to reduce the affect?

[tall oar]

I am very split on this personally.

I am in general not a fan of paying for a chance. I'd rather pay 200$ and get that one thing I want rather than to tempt fate 100 times for 2$ and still not get it. Even if it was cosmetic.

[brazen shore]

It's going to be tough for him but he really should consider doing something

Not nothing, as he's presently doing

[silk edge]

the longer he is doing nothing or say anything.. the longer it will burn

[tall oar]

The harsh reality though is that with all the money that has flown towards Lava he may continue to follow these business practices

[brazen shore]

That's true, greed can take over, and make someone go away from their original narrative

[mighty vessel]

Kinda agree but here its really the question of where you draw the line and where you still tolerate stuff. I personally would argue that systems that try to get you to buy premium currencies through artifical scarcity itself really aren't good. Really only brings "create the problem to sell the solution" vibes to the table

[shell shale]

For now, probably skip on trading as the trading makes no sense imo. And make green gems earnable f2p (can be slowly, like being able to get green gems from releasing the free pets you get) and/or more free pulls to increase the chance to win the best pet each rotation. Doens't need to be 100%, but everyone should at least have somewhat of a chance.

[tall oar]

What's with that question

[brazen shore]

$200 is very kind, it could cost less, or a lot more

[tacit bough]

But what you talking about is long term things instead of short term things.

[tall oar]

I am aware that this is not a onetime thing

[silk edge]

but then next week when a new "super" pet is comming.. what happen then?

[tall oar]

And to be fairly speaking, yes.

[shell shale]

Then what would you think a good short term solution would be?

[tall oar]

I would

[brazen shore]

my major worry right now, isn't totally on this, I have faith lava will fix this in some way - my BIG fear is, he's smelled money, he knows this can make money off whales, now what other ways will he make the direction of the game take to eak out more money?

This doesn't just abuse whales, it abuses people with gambling tendencies, those who fear FOMO

[tall oar]

He's obviously made at least 6 figures the past 24 hours

[tacit bough]

Really no. I can't think of. We can't nerf or increase the count player to claim.

[mighty vessel]

Lava already knows since long ago that he has whales in his little gaming pond. the question is not if he abuses that but just how far he is willing to milk

[tacit bough]

Lack of communication or announcement.

[mighty vessel]

disable purchase of green gems and disable all effects of all pets till he has a solution at hand. simple as that.

gives him time to think and try things out and most importantly, test the waters with the community

would just be the most fair

[shell shale]

There is no short term solution. It's okay for systems to work long term, because it'll be something to work towards. It's the essense of this game to have slow but steady progress. It just needs to be more reachable than it currently is.

[tacit bough]

But will this consider as fraudulent?

[mighty vessel]

legally speaking? no

[brazen shore]

bite the bullet and just refund green gems purchases for all, remove progress, start completely fresh, would be the nuclear option

accept that he f'ed up royally by introducing this and just start fresh

several people are already refunded without asking

just universalise it

then rework the companions system to be a more fair solution for all, and more in line with idle gaming rather than gacha

[tall oar]

He didn't F up, he did all of this absolutely purposefully and intentionally

[mighty vessel]

tbh, he could also just make the pets pure cosmetic like people originally wanted

[tacit bough]

But you didn't get what you buy.

[mighty vessel]

yes you did. you got your green gems and you spent them. you never actually bought the pets itself, nor did you buy the boni.

[shell shale]

Legally, he can't disable the pets. People would be eligible for refunds.

[mighty vessel]

i didn't say disable pets. i said disable the effect pets give.

small but important difference

[shell shale]

Same thing, doing so would make people eligible for refunds

[tacit bough]

That pretty much same as disable the pets

[stiff kestrel]

someone who spent thousands of dollars to get all pets would disagree with you

[tacit bough]

People looks for the effect from the pets, not the skin.

[mighty vessel]

not really. basically every game has something in their terms of service that they keep the right to themselves you make any kind of change that they want withhin the game. Unless you directly buy something, it would be very, very hard to argue in court that you got in some way defrauded

its really no different then for example, ea changing the damage value of a weapon and not being able to be sued over it

[hollow elbow]

The problem is that people already payed for getting the Pets and removing or nerving the effects would lead to another problem. But if he does not nerv the effect the current problems are still in the game. He has to solve it somehow like with making green gems available for free like with blue gems. Thats the only fix i can imagine. And Also he should make future pets not that impactfull and should never rotate doot out/ make him always available somehow

[shell shale]

Laws stand above ToS, changes are allowed yes, but only for good reason and with good solutions.

[mighty vessel]

also, keep it mind, i am not speaking about the moral aspect of keeping stuff that way permanently. i am talking about it legally here

[mighty vessel]

thats just factually wrong

[shell shale]

This is literally my job. I can assure you it works this way

If he disables the pets, people can request refunds

[tacit bough]

T&C something like that won't able to cover everything.

[mighty vessel]

then define a "good reason" and "good solution" in court. thats way too loose of a definition to have any legal meaning and can be litteraly anything

[shell shale]

Community expert

[potent loom]

I thought u are a lawyer or something

[potent loom]

To be honest a lot of laws are intentionally written vaguely because it cannot possibly cover any and all cases

That’s why it’s important to establish intention for court cases

Not a lawyer but worked with a lawyer before

[shell shale]

Tell me how it's a good reason to disable pet effect because half the playerbase is angry over the gacha system.

[potent loom]

The court may or may not agree but the plaintiff could argue that the green gems were purchased with the intention of obtaining pet perks and changes made invalidates the purchases

[mighty vessel]

Very much so, yes. But given that nobody can look into his brain nor his plans for the game, he could come up with an excuse and be scotfree

[potent loom]

I mean that’s up to the judge and how good lawyers are. Lava can’t just say he had a good reason and be free from his responsibilities

[tacit bough]

What I understand is:

1. If you buy a pet with effect, Lava remove it after 2 days.
   Then it probably a success sue
2. If you buy a pet with effect, Lava remove it after 1 month.
   Then it probably a failed sue.

[mighty vessel]

already did. Tempoarily disabling the pet effects till he found a permanent solution. that happens all the time, every single day. Something gets rolled out, is broken, so it gets disabled and hot fixed.

[shell shale]

Except nothing is broken. It works as intended by the developer

[potent loom]

Also idk consumer protection laws but if there’s any expert that would be a good ground to cover

[tacit bough]

The different between them is do the player get enough the benefit from the pet. If you didn't, you probably win. But if you already get amount of benefit, then you probably lose

Anyway I think I already off topic lol

[mighty vessel]

"broken" doesn't necessarily means "doesn't work" it also means that it doesn't have the desired effect, for example which here could very easily be argued.

either way, to get back to topic, yeah, lava has to do something, tho it really is in the stars what he is gonna do

[tacit bough]

1. King doot balance
2. Gacha related issue
   Which one you guys think Lava should handle first?

[shell shale]

1

At least, the balance to be able to get him 😜

[tacit bough]

I am guessing gacha preventing iOS to launch.

[brazen shore]

gacha is honestly probably creating a major problem with the ios launch - apple has high standards in that area without correct documentation and labeling

[fallow frost]

if he wanted to go to china he'd need have chinese publisher handle game for him there

[brazen shore]

is it labeled as having lootboxes?

[fallow frost]

(china is locked market, where nonchinese companies are forbidden from operating without localised branch)

not likely

[tall oar]

There is a Chinese flag in Readme

[fallow frost]

that could be automated one

[brazen shore]

may be that he's planning on chinese translation but not localisation, or maybe what raven said

there are a lot of chinese people living outside of china

[tall oar]

Fair points

[slender aspen]

Gacha is forbidden in Belgium too, but they don't enforce it unfortunately

Same for lootboxes and other similar predatory mechanics

[scenic horizon]

won't be spending any more money in the future on the game. way to wipe all any good will built over the past year or so lava.

[verbal flint]

It feels like cheap chines mobile game update, but that is nothing new. People were calling Lava on his greed since pachinko etc. The game is going full "gimme more money" in most shitty way.

[silk edge]

welcome to the next update of idleon...you can now give a monthly fee of "only" 50 usd to unlock the "whole" game or else you are stuck in w1 town

[brazen shore]

I also won't be spending any more money, most likely, until this is resolved, This drained the "good will" reserves lava had for me

I'm saying that lava will need to rebuild the trust reserves before I spend more

I won't be spending any for a considerable time

not green gems, nor blue gems, nor packages

[obsidian tulip]

Wouldn't it be okay to change things in the game since its an early access and its written that there can be changes?

[paper crow]

Lava still hiding?

[brazen shore]

I like this game, I just really dislike the actions of its dev right now

if I didn't like the game as much I'd flat out stop playing right now

As a new player this would just decide it right there and then

precisely

[paper crow]

I’ve stop spending money since how he handles the last “gold bar bug” situation. He’s clearly very unstable “Mentally”.

[brazen shore]

I'll admit it, it's addiction to it, masquerading as liking it

a sense of comfort and "same-ness"

[granite rover]

good mornig everyone

[brazen shore]

But I'm refusing to spend money so I'm handling that part of the addiction

good morning!

[granite rover]

it appears we are about to reach 700 upvotes on this

[brazen shore]

Lava is still radio-silent, but apparently some people have been given refunds without asking for green gems

Reviews are at an all time low, and anger is still rife

This is your morning update

[granite rover]

I see thank you

I really needed to know that 🫶

[brazen shore]

Don't think it was him..

I think google and steam offered them

They gave it back as steam credit

steam wallet balance*

[fallow frost]

already passed

[paper crow]

Lava’s ego and refuse to admit wrong will probably killed this game.

[fallow frost]

well, he be american, likely from california ...they tend have fragile egos

[brazen shore]

I don't want it to die, I want lava to realise quick enough and put in (15 hour late) damage mitigation tactics

It's going towards 24 hours with no damage mitigation though, or even any talk whatsoever, so, slightly worrisome

[granite rover]

btw guys I had a dream where Lava made free pet giveable once every 3 days :D,

[silk edge]

then you woke up and see 7 days still

[granite rover]

and then Lava came to my server and entire dream switched to Minecraft parkour vs Lava.........

and then I woke up

[granite rover]

yup :/

[vernal walrus]

make it daily, Final Fantasy Record Keeper had a free daily draw (with rates more or less like this gatcha)

[mellow iris]

that still doesnt change anything even if it wasnt a dream

[granite rover]

ye

[toxic grail]

It is xD

[granite rover]

I dont know

I wish they cancel his request so he has to fix the update

[vernal walrus]

@toxic grail i answered that too (you didn't scroll down, did you )

[stiff kestrel]

and now this game is dead 😦

[granite rover]

[toxic grail]

I might have not done that

[granite rover]

yea :),

[vernal walrus]

that would be the end of the game, actually <.<'

[fallow frost]

or opera omnia having enough free gains to if even litttle lucky manage all banners easy, if less lucky then most available in year, and old banners regularly becoming reavailable (with expection that OO is still going, RK is dead)

[vernal walrus]

so it would cure everyone

[toxic grail]

Same

[signal burrow]

Pretty sure this is so bad because lava is abandoning idleon and this is just some last ditch whale squeeze to cash out with as much as possible

I can't see any other reason he would pull such an obviously scum hustle

[vernal walrus]

if he does, expect some devs to work on a clone to spite him

[brazen shore]

Holy crap it's been around 20 hours, and all lava's deigned to say is "if blue gems were secure I'd use them"

nearly 24 hours and no announcement

[vernal walrus]

good, because the next announcement will either save or break the game for me

[signal burrow]

If I were him it would probably because he hired a PR firm to damage control and was like "Bros they caught me blatantly trying to rip off my entire playerbase 'somehow' and I need to save face"

[brazen shore]

he could use some of the masses of money he made from this to hire some professional PR

you know, put the money back into the game, like he always said he would

[modest zenith]

what happened to the 500+ upvotes on here?

[brazen shore]

They're nearly at 700 now

I see 689

[modest zenith]

i only see 376

it was 510 when i went to bed

[brazen shore]

discord is being discord

[modest zenith]

ahh

[brazen shore]

Would not put it past lava

Give them the Tony treatment

[rare mist]

I'm seeing 704 on my end

[brazen shore]

hmm discord can't handle big numbers it seems

[rare mist]

it is discord after all :v

[tacit bough]

Never see a update kill itself that huge lol

[hushed island]

lava never balanced buffs from recent updates properly. id find it more reasonable if they got hooked on planning to add some of the features (trading) and just didn't think about downsides to what they were actually adding (rather than something like trying to cash out of a somewhat stable game). although i only find it a reasonable possibility.. still doubt thats the case... and it doesnt change the fact this is a big mess thatll be difficult to clean up

[tacit bough]

New currency always need time to let people accept. Especially that expensive.

[brazen shore]

I never got to watch Hiroshima....

I'm glad I got to see an even bigger bomb get dropped within my lifetime

[tacit bough]

If the currency happen at start, everyone will accept it. But if in the middle, you need to convince player we all need this.

And I think Lava have failed to convince us the green gem is necessary

[brazen shore]

but guise we NEED trading, even though previously it was said it was bad....and I never secured blue gems, so uh, green gem! over double the price, see you next week!"

https://tenor.com/view/digibyte-i-love-money-krabs-spongebob-rich-gif-19793103

[signal burrow]

Bruh I can't lol

[modest zenith]

the poor steam reviews, i dont think he deserves this much hurt until he gets a chance to speak with us first

[signal burrow]

You don't? He intentionally tried to grift you. He tried to mentally abuse people into spending hundreds of dollars

Not just a "teehee I'm slightly more powerful!" for $25.99

[vernal walrus]

without those he wouldn't understand how bad of an update this was

[modest zenith]

yeah it does look like that right now but maybe he didnt mean it. if he did its is still not enough bad reviews.

[signal burrow]

"Maybe he didn't mean it"

He removed the blurb on the steam page where it says "I won't try and scam you like some greedy ceo"

[modest zenith]

i like to hear people out first then react bad. this affects his living.

[tacit bough]

You can’t always forgive someone about his mistake.

[modest zenith]

yeah sometimes you have to think before you speak so you dont create more harm.

[signal burrow]

If you think this wasn't outright intentional sus scum greedplay. You're simply not paying attention

[modest zenith]

he might be scard of our reaction so he was trying to do damage control and not get taken off steam idk

i guess time will tell

[tacit bough]

That’s why in programming we have something call peer review. To review code break or create some unexpected stuff

[modest zenith]

once he speaks his mind and if it is true greed i willplace my review then

[signal burrow]

Fnunzi in order to fuck up on this magnitude you have to have lead poisoning. So you're either saying Lava has gone into a vegetative state and his comatose autopilot game developer body made this patch in REM sleep or... more likely, he tried to scam you

[modest zenith]

i am upset about this whole thing. so i am on everyones side. just waiting to make my review until i let him speak.

[rare mist]

the two ways I can read The Edit are "panicked attempt at damage control" and "deliberate edit and implicit admission"
neither looks good but they have different weights

[tall oar]

He spoke once, and it doesn't look good

[modest zenith]

true

[modest zenith]

i diodn not see it must of been on stream?

[tall oar]

He also removed all "no p2w" bits from Steam

I mean that one message he sent here

[modest zenith]

this has to be his income and idk who in their right mind would fuck it up this bad and hide. just crazy

[signal burrow]

Like this ain't some "oopsie doopsie I added a zero" this is a clear and obvious intentional attempt to mindgame you into spending hundreds of dollars.

You know that shit where chances of doot go up but so does the price? That's Predatory Casino Psychology 101. The human brain sees the increased odds and ignores the increased price.

He. Tried. To. Scam. You

[modest zenith]

slow milk is more profitable than this one time cash grab

[tall oar]

This for me is just an attempt at bailing while trying to squeeze it's playerbase of all they have

What he's done is clearly intentional

[upbeat lily]

He just said he had to create new currency because old gems were not secured server-side

[modest zenith]

yeah could be. maybe he will sell this game off and this was his last cash grab before the sale

[tacit bough]

Unless he don’t want to milk anymore. It also mean he doesn’t want to update anymore

[tall oar]

You don't go out of your way to make the entire thing server sided. If he cared so much about making actual money, he'd rework the current gems system or do something. This is just a lazy attempt

[modest zenith]

true

[signal burrow]

If you believe this is the real reason and not just an attempt to circumnavigate people who've stashed gems (and therefore won't need to 💳 as hard to get doot). I got a bridge to sell you

[upbeat lily]

I don't believe anything, I just wrote what he said

[radiant vapor]

he could have just made gems more secure if that is really why he made green gems

[signal burrow]

Ye

[flint meadow]

cheater cheat in green gems

now

it makes no difference

[tacit bough]

Server side may cost more bug or problem.

[signal burrow]

Problem is Lava doesn't know how to code so going back and retroactively changing how blue gems work is likely above his paygrade so in his mind "lol new currency" is the smarter play

[tall oar]

Given Lava's coding experience I wouldn't be surprised of some people already found a way to circumvent all that

[modest zenith]

if peole want to cheet in a solo game go for it. we can all tell someone cheated if they have insane sats

stats*

[tacit bough]

Especially there is a web version of this game. Getting the api url is easy

[flint meadow]

people already cheated in the pets already i think

green gems too

[modest zenith]

oh i bet

[signal burrow]

Ya okay Lava

[flint meadow]

LIES

ALL LIES

lava rn:

https://tenor.com/view/how-mad-can-i-be-playing-guitar-flying-money-money-musician-gif-17939087

[brazen shore]

"I have built my charisma up to level 20, time to respec to intelligence and dexterity"

[signal burrow]

He basically went into the equivalent of an AA meeting and offered people a $500 lottery and whoever wins gets the 40 of vodka.

[brazen shore]

"crap I put it all in dex"

[flint meadow]

put all in stupidity

[brazen shore]

"just stop sucking at life management and get better at luck"

[signal burrow]

tbf it should be 0.85% for more charitable result but it's still cringe

[tall oar]

350 weeks or 250 weeks it doesn't change much

[flint meadow]

don't forget the rotation of pets

[novel pewter]

Don't forget rotations also reset the treat thus reseting you to normal base odds

[rare mist]

yeah that's... ew

[signal burrow]

Lava logged in. Everyone prepare yourselves for more deafening silence.

[tall oar]

Let's go

Silent chambers

[novel pewter]

I probably shouldn't but a small part of me hopes for lava to have a solution

[tall oar]

Don't

Please expect disappointment

[signal burrow]

What could he possibly even do aside from a complete rollback-undo-refund and ask for forgiveness. (He won't do this)

[tall oar]

"All the negative reviews is just hate pls help me put positive review"

[brazen shore]

0h no, that's what he's going to do

[signal burrow]

Like even if he gave everyone $500 worth of green gems we're still left with a fundamentally broken game and a dev who thinks this is okay

[brazen shore]

"I am being unfairly bullied, look at all the free updates I gave you"

"please upvote my game to fight these trolls"

Calling it now

[tall oar]

The worst I'm expecting is him unironically saying "A lot of games do that so that means people LOVE mechanics like this!"

[signal burrow]

Lol knowing Lava it wouldn't entirely shock me

[brazen shore]

https://tenor.com/view/gag-gross-vomit-sick-sickening-gif-17944562

[tall oar]

Lava's gone by the way

[novel pewter]

Any how I need to get back to work

[tall oar]

Or went invisible

[rare mist]

I don't think that spin would work out like last month, the playerbase is a lot more united on this one

[brazen shore]

He's writing a storyline up as to how we're all evil trolls and he's a great and amazing dev with the best idle game of all time ong frfr

or something

[lime marsh]

Hasn't removed it here

And I will either get banned or this will change in the next few hours

[rocky lion]

Well the update has been pushed but the gacha aspect is illegal in my country.. Will see what happens.

[obsidian tulip]

He removed things like that in other place?

[brazen shore]

well, he now has something he can change.

That statement, nothing to do with the game itself.

The internet does not forget - he may remove it, but it's copied on the internet and saved

Not by one individual person

What was the update earlier btw

I've been on my PC and not restarted

[flint meadow]

700 upvotes

[solemn karma]

Lucky #700

[signal burrow]

How Lava's PR team feels right now

[waxen ridge]

Does having doot negate the wizard talent of having 2 gods connected?

[tacit bough]

I doubt do Lava have a PR team

[tall oar]

No, he doesn't, he does literally everything by himself

[upbeat lily]

At least there is no one he can blame for this shitstorm

[novel pewter]

The other night someone mentioned they were a play tester but they had to use their wn personal account which would cause bugs and what not and all they could do is hope it'd be fixed by release

[tall oar]

350 weeks or 250 weeks, what's the fucking difference

Do you know how much 250 weeks is?

[zenith cape]

5 years?

[tall oar]

Come back when you did the math

Thank you.

[tacit bough]

A game from start to end probably 5 years.

[tall oar]

350 at Tier 1

[lyric otter]

can you even go up tiers with free pulls?

[tall oar]

You are being super nitpicky. It's not about the actual number but the fact that you have to wait YEARS to get a high-Tier follower as a f2p player

Yes you can

But it goes back down to T1 with every rotation, or so I heard

[lyric otter]

well at least there's that, how many pulls does it take to get to tier 5?

well apparently pets are supposed to rotate every 10 weeks

[tall oar]

So 3 and something years

Oh

So you won't even be at T3 then

[lyric otter]

and that resets the the tier apparently

obviously nothing is set in stone

[tall oar]

Dataminers working fast

[lyric otter]

regardless it's comically bad for f2p

nah, he just needs to have the update ready in 10 weeks

[tall oar]

Can we just unanimously agree that this system is predatory gacha nightmare bullshit that nobody asked for?

[lyric otter]

its not something thats actually coded from what ive heard, just something he's planned

[nocturne pagoda]

I mean who doesnt agree

[gray gale]

Still no response huh?

[tall oar]

Aside from that one clown answer, no

[gray gale]

Smh

[nocturne pagoda]

which oine

[lyric otter]

theres the odd apologist in gen chat

[nocturne pagoda]

ah this

[tall oar]

#1119655394285998182 message

[nocturne pagoda]

lava's been playing real dead since then

[gray gale]

Was really hoping to have some results tbh

[lyric otter]

he's not really in a good position - no response is going to make anyone happy

[tall oar]

So does being silent

[lyric otter]

he makes it less predatory, and the people who spent tons of money feel ripped off

Oh yeah, the game's always had hints of like "mobile game BS" it was just a lot more forgivable/excusable

[tall oar]

Doot literally shits on those and makes the Gaming Snail look acceptable in comparison

[lyric otter]

there's been a bug forever that lets you take stuff out for storage from anywhere on PC, so it's particularly funny

and then there's TK storage, which ram renders useless

plus teleport potions and map warps are so plentyful Ram feels really bad for it's rarity

"congrats, you got one of the more rare pets, congrats, it's bonus gives you no additional power!"

[tall oar]

The Storage Quick Access technically removes the AFK limitation

You can now AFK forever and just transfer all gains to the Storage Chest

[lyric otter]

if they were all QoL bonuses, yeah

[rare mist]

I can kinda imagine a timeline where this update - which is available from w1 - came with content in later worlds that eased the process of getting more pets (building off it in the way a lot of later-game stuff builds off earlier-game content in general), but I'd hope the pet system in that timeline had better baseline mechanics on top of that <<;

[lyric otter]

Ram is not useless, it's just a niche/underwhelming bonus compared to other stuff at that rarity

[tall oar]

I mean true

[lyric otter]

as previously mentioned, if you AFK for long enough to overflow inventory, Ram can save you

since TK deletes stuff on ground

or long AFK

yeah

[rare mist]

if we hadn't just gotten the QoL coin-to-and-from-chest thing Ram might make a little more sense for at least that much, but...

[lyric otter]

my biggest inventory issue is like, active ES, which is more a problem of like "I forgot to check my game for a few hours while farming a w1 vial and now theres so much shit on the ground that the game is lagging"

I do ahve auto loot

autoloot just picks up stuff after about like 20s of it being on the ground?

[rare mist]

I think it's 5s these days but don't quote me

[lyric otter]

yeah, the issue is with enough stats and multikill, farming early mobs, you can fill up your inventory on the best bags in hours

[lyric otter]

yeah, its pretty quick, I dont know what the timing is cause its been sped up a few times

[gray gale]

Clearly no one on the Google store got the memo about the update lol. Can you guys help with that? 🙂

[lyric otter]

back during like... w3 I would farm crystals at sandcastles on mman, bags would fill up overnight unless I did some special prep (no loot filter back then)

mighta not been till w4

either way

besides the point

[leaden haven]

well... suppose no lava reaction?

[flint meadow]

since the update only this

also it seems the subreddit is banning people for talking about the p2wness of the update

[proper goblet]

Lava is a mod on the subreddit, no surprises there.

[lyric otter]

I dont really care the new currency is only obtainable through money, its the cost of shit

like auto-loot or premium wings

[flint meadow]

they are server side but lava says they aren't secure yet people ahve hacked green gems already

what is the point of sayign blue gems aren't secure if green ones aren't either

[rocky burrow]

He could make something like you could buy green gems with resources(atoms or something like post office that cycles randomly) and thier cost increase each time you buy it and when tapping the pet summon the cost of it increases too but it resets weekly

[flint meadow]

someone suggested it be from liquid nitrogen

[proper goblet]

Like the alchemy shop?

[flint meadow]

if they do that then might as well to the same for toxic HG (the 4th unreleased liquid)

[lyric otter]

he won't add ways to get green gems outside of money cause thats the kind of stuff that makes it less secure

IMO the issue is the cost and rarity of pets - not that green gems aren't free in some fashion.
Even if you got 2, 3, or 5 free pulls a week, Doot is kind of insanely rare, and incredibly powerful

people who are spending, are paying up to 200-500$ to get it

[flint meadow]

insanely p2w

[lyric otter]

or just predatory

people have gambling addicitons and this is why loot boxes and gacha are getting regulated in some countries

[flint meadow]

time idleon to be banned in like 50 european countries

[lyric otter]

[toxic grail]

Yeah

[flint meadow]

oh wow

[leaden haven]

hentai

[toxic grail]

It's getting really bad

[flint meadow]

idleon hentai when

[proper goblet]

It already exists...

[leaden haven]

well... all characters r naked anyways... so theyre not wrong

[lyric otter]

tentacle monsters

of multiple varieites

[flint meadow]

the cumsocks

[toxic grail]

The name of the mobs: hard and sticky

[flint meadow]

new jojo stand named just dropped

[rocky burrow]

yea that style

and give ppl who spent big money some portion of back in blue gems

[proper goblet]

Won't work, Alchemy isn't server side validated

💀

[thorn ocean]

I think the bare minimum that could be done to make companions viable for f2p would be: make green gems available through gameplay, keep the pseudo pity system (rates increase after a certain no of pulls), keep green gem cost per pull consistent. That way, "free" pulls for companions are not time gated, all players have a chance to get higher rarity pets (hopefully) before the rotation. PS, while dedo ram is high rarity, its a niche qol at best, perhaps stack count+ will help its case a bit

[lyric otter]

yeah, green gems through gameplay is the one thing that will not happen

[warm aspen]

the most profitable way to make this slightly less disgusting is to have a different colored gem for each rotation, and they don't actually rotate, it's just a new "tab" with it's own weekly free pet

As well as pity

[lyric otter]

wouldn't that just be more predatory since old gems become worthless?

[warm aspen]

They'd eventually become worthless, but stop buying them when you have all the pets

[boreal tide]

Wait, you want more premium currencies?

[leaden haven]

this is such a terrible idea.

[thorn ocean]

Thank you for the response, that slipped my mind.

[leaden haven]

even the extra currency is too much, not even farmable thru arcade or all sorts of other ways... what was the point of making blue gems so important all this time

[lyric otter]

My dumb take is: Make it so the free pulls don't give dupes. Free dupes have no use anyways. 11 weeks, you have all pets. If you want them faster, you pay.

but that wouldn't be as lucrative as gacha with 0.3% rarity stuff

[stray knoll]

11 weeks -> 11 common pets

[lyric otter]

If it doesn't give dupes, it's a knockout list

like lab jewels

[toxic grail]

I does...

[lyric otter]

No what I mean

is change it so free rolls do not give dupes, so every free roll is one you need

[toxic grail]

Yeah but ain't gonna happen then lava would lose money

[lyric otter]

oh of course

but im making an argument for how to make it less predatory

[toxic grail]

Just let us use blue gems and remove the trading part

[lyric otter]

that hast the same problem as lava losing money

[toxic grail]

Yeah

[lyric otter]

trading is going to be such a shitshow

[thorn ocean]

Despite the bugs, glitches and other problems, I like the game and till this update, I didnt see any major issue. In fact, when I logged in, I was hoping the currency would be earnable in game. I would like the game to evolve in the best way possible. This is the first community I've been in where its largely friendly.

[leaden haven]

i expect people to lose their doots and other people will be selling those doots on the black market. this is just... insecure...

[toxic grail]

Make green gems available in game that instantly go to your menu so it's not exploitable and if people want them faster they can buy it and peopke that want to grind go for it

[lyric otter]

or some noob gets scammed out of a doot "oh hey guys I traded the ugly mummy for a cute sheep!"

TBH even if green gems were earnable in game, the odds on Doot are kind of comically low

[fallow frost]

last 30days is now on 45% positive only

[tacit bough]

Imagine 5 days later the peak of positive gone….

[fallow frost]

yh, next week onward likely starts getting into very negative

[silk edge]

still a better chance to get doot.. then Lava fixing this or even speak

[cedar lodge]

Changes to make it f2p:

Free pets do not increase rates.
1 free pet per dice on dungeon completion.

[leaden haven]

well. had to change my review for this game. hope lava says something or fixes this. until then... it stays like that for me. its too bad that this game is going to be unlisted for my country.

[ruby summit]

Why lava haven't reply anything about this mess? He really don't care is it?

[paper crow]

His got too big of an ego to admit wrong.

[ruby summit]

Did he see all the reviews on steam?

[pastel geyser]

It may be that monetarily he is doing VERY well. If he keeps only 10% of his player base, but is making 30,000% more than usual because of the gambling aspect, why would he not keep it from a business aspect?

[hushed grotto]

it's more about short term vs long term

[leaden haven]

well... this is just speedrunning towards a coffin at this point

[hushed grotto]

in short term this move racks up loads of $$, but it clearly will hurt for long time investment
it's more or less like a cash out move

[amber briar]

It's been less than 24 hours...

[pastel geyser]

I agree. Short term cash out. How many people do you think spent 500+?

100 accounts = 50,000. 1000 accounts = 0.5mil.

[obtuse ravine]

It’s okay to progress faster. Not pay to win. Just like lots of other games. Great update lava 👍

[patent badger]

lol

what a bad take

[obtuse ravine]

Lol at your opinion lol

[patent badger]

not holding anything against you dont get offended

[obtuse ravine]

Same 💪

[patent badger]

but its p2w by definition and it doesnt matter if we like it or not

we all said our opinions but we cant rly change anything can we

[amber briar]

My suspicion is that it will be a short term cash out, followed by ways to either earn crystals for free, get pet pulls for free, or a balance patch. The only post he gave after the update was that blue gems can't be secured server-side, so that issue would likely need to be addressed if there was any blue > green gem conversion.

[obtuse ravine]

That’s just not even true.

[patent badger]

it is

[obtuse ravine]

It’s not.

[tall oar]

Does the game need this p2w gacha nonsense? Did anyone ask for this?

[patent badger]

its your choice to accept it or not

so ill leave u to it

good luck

[hushed grotto]

it's realistically impossible for the vast majority of f2p player to get doot at all, even slug wont be for most people

[obtuse ravine]

Not sure where your definition is coming from but pretty sure you’re not the authority so I’ll take it thanks.

[tall oar]

It's okay to progress faster. I agree. It's not okay to offer gamebreaking progression behind massive RNG paywalls. I won't agree with that.

Let's just unanimously agree that gacha mechanics are not needed like this here.

[paper crow]

If this is the type of updates we are going to get down the road. Then then fun is gone for idleon.

[tall oar]

Easily 6 figures at least

[pastel geyser]

I have bought every bundle for 2 years now or so, so I have been helping dev out that way too.

[last basin]

Sadly I have too until this update

[pastel geyser]

I regretfully bought the pack not knowing pet mechanics....

[amber briar]

Best outcome would be that he uses all this new cash to hire an outsourced dev to let me change my damn character names...

[pastel geyser]

Which I personally think should not be in games

Or at least a guaranteed, SINGULAR outcome after a money threshhold

and also a f2p option too

[amber briar]

It just occured to me that nobody would be in a panic if he didn't list the probabilities lmao

[last basin]

I think if there is gambling in a game it should be with in game currency that can't be paid for

[amber briar]

With the amount of people getting Doot on free pulls, I would think it's like 5%

[last basin]

If at all be there

[amber briar]

Yeah not saying it would be better, just an interesting thought.

[last basin]

If they are getting it on free pulls and aren't just trolling

I mean that's probably why he put rates in

[amber briar]

It's good they are listed, I'm just saying that I, personally, would never think the % to be as low as it is based on people who claim they got it. Also, full disclosure, I spent a little bit of $ and got it fairly quick. Like I said, I would expect ~5% based on my experience.

lmfao yeah but even then you'd need like 20+ whales for it to be statistically significant, maybe more

[last basin]

And that's if they are willing to listen

[amber briar]

F

[pastel geyser]

The thing about probability and statistics are that they are pretty largely misinterpreted/perceived wrong to a significant degree

[last basin]

I mean evans spent $250 to get his

[hushed grotto]

You have to realize people who got it are that much more likely to come here talk about it

that people who don't to come and talk about how they didn't

[amber briar]

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying the probability is good. I was just making a comment about the transparency of it.

I did just get lucky, it's not a statistically significant assertion from 1 data point

[hushed grotto]

Yeah no worries, i'm just saying that to explain why it feels like it's not that low

[fallow frost]

well, with no pity system at all; there is no decay; at T5 you are at max rate ...some get it on next pull, some wont get it in 500k pulls

[proper cradle]

cost of upgraded tiers of treats should also remain at 100, and not suddenly cost more

[amber briar]

Was just about to say this. That's the most egregious. I think one potential fix here is to balance the treat growth. If every 2-3 pulls increased treat quality, it might make F2P more reasonable. Or like people are saying, a pity system.

Without increasing cost of pull, of course.

[fallow frost]

yeah, but now it caps at tier 5, with .85% change od doot, and cost ramps up 2.5x

[radiant vapor]

the worst part is if you go to manage and see bonuses it says companion batch 1

[meager vector]

So it's pretty much the same as tier 1

[amber briar]

Yeah...

[fallow frost]

well, thats statistically, but not in reality

[amber briar]

footnote: recycle values should be higher 👀

[last basin]

I'm just trying to think of how he could fix this without upsetting those that dumped money into it.

More free pulls a week would help but still that leaves the gatcha and fomo aspects. Idk if a free way to get green gems would compromise it like blue gems or not. The fact that it's a 10 week rotation gives f2p people 10 chances for all pets is really bad odds. Just what can reasonably be done now that pandora's box has been opened?

[leaden haven]

not being able to save up or guarantee one pet sorta is... painful.

[amber briar]

Could be that prior batch pets will be available in gem store or something.

[fallow frost]

thing ecxample on coin flip is, statistically every throw is same change, but as you throw it starts be statistically harder to see same throw happen every time; its practically statistic fallacity

[amber briar]

So if you pay for it you get 10 weeks to use the new pets, or buy them with gems later.

[last basin]

Not for blue gems because of trading remember

[fallow frost]

trading itself though would result this game getting banned in plenty countries

[leaden haven]

still makes zero sense...

[frozen lake]

I see a lot of sugestions about giving the pets or make them availeble for blue gems. I spent a lot to get a doot. Ill hope you refund all I have spent on the pets if you change the rules and make it more easy or cheaper to get them

[amber briar]

I'm not following...mind explaining?

[leaden haven]

then why not make blue gems server sided?

see. it doesnt make sense.

[fallow frost]

reasoning of crystals is that blue gems are cliewnt sided, so lava didnt want player trading become possible on blue gems

[leaden haven]

that's no reason to fuck over the whole playerbase

[fallow frost]

lava doesnt know how to code, he has not even slightest idea how to change blue from client to server side

[amber briar]

Right right, I forgot. I'm still pretty new. I suspect there is quite a bit of legacy code involved here that can't be changed easily enough. Those mistakes are easy to make and hard to fix.

In the same vein, I assume character names are used as primary keys, hence why we can't change them.

[fallow frost]

consider that he puleld similar in idle skilling ...no he had plenty changes to learn, he didnt

[last basin]

Makes sense

[amber briar]

I know he makes too much money to make this open source, but god damn this would be a 10x better game it if was.

everything broken would be fixed in like 2 weeks haha

[last basin]

And yeah when he had the idle skilling event when it went on steam I tried it and the amount of microtransactions in it just turned me off from it immediately and made me worry for this game

[amber briar]

I tried starting idle skilling yesterday just for the trophy...spent a day on it on my phone until I realized I don't get codes unless it's steam, and I can't even cloud-save over to steam.

brutal because it's a dreadfully boring game

[obsidian tulip]

it's not that bad of a game tbh

[amber briar]

Not my cup of tea, then

[fallow frost]

yh, its not that bad ...just its not that great either

[obsidian tulip]

not an amazing one definitly, and the more you go the more broken stuff appear but base game is meh at least

[last basin]

It's just numbers go up and all that. But that can be said about most games in one way or another

[amber briar]

Haha well the "in one way or another" is a big deal.

[fallow frost]

yh, expect some better ones make numbers going up great fun

[last basin]

Or make you feel invested

[amber briar]

Maybe it's because I started with IdleOn

[fallow frost]

yh, one such is NGU (Numbers Go Up)

[amber briar]

and this felt like it should have been a "mobile sidekick" to idleon

[last basin]

I think that's the big thing about these games. Once you get invested it's hard to break away

[amber briar]

I actually wish more games would do that. Mobile sidekick to the main feature that progresses in the main feature.

[last basin]

I think it's more we seen IS when it was at completion

If we were there for the journey like we are for idleon then we would be more invested

[leaden haven]

what happened to that feature? i dont remember seeing anything when i played IS like that

afterlife is there, but $$ feature for it?

the vending machine?

oh those

[heady pelican]

I really hope he changes it, but I really doubt he will change it

[last basin]

Just with how this game is going idk how long I can justify playing and supporting it. Because idk if this will be fixed or things will get worse

And I think many people are in the same boat

[weary arrow]

I'm fairly new to the game, what's happening with this update? I'm confused

[paper crow]

Exactly. Have stop spending any money since the last gold bar incident.

[weary arrow]

I'm on world 2 at the moment

[paper crow]

Game development seem to be going toward a gotcha direction.

[nocturne pagoda]

same

[fallow frost]

and, do consider that some better idles have managed run far longer without pulling any controversy from player base even once ...ITRTG 9 years, trimps 7 years, ngu 7 years and finished story

[last basin]

I've been there since the beginning and supporting the game. It sucks to have to break away but I've had enough of games doing this sort of thing

[fallow frost]

yup, wallet votes

[patent badger]

this is why i play games like factorio and bannerlord, i actually get my moneys worth

[weary arrow]

Oh no, I was enjoying this game too, but it's going in a bad direction?

[last basin]

And yeah wallet votes. Just hope more people do it

I know. Gambling and just the thrill of maybe being lucky enough to make it big gets many people

[fallow frost]

well, predatory gacha hunts kids and average income parents

anyone who has money making abilities dont pay into pixel gambling

[last basin]

And sometimes it's hard to listen to reason when you are going for that thrill

[hushed grotto]

You would be surprised, it's not called an addiction and predatory for nothing

[fallow frost]

and I always suggest any gacha player read https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/7jmezv/a_whale_of_a_tale/

[last basin]

Oh God brave exvius

[hushed grotto]

If i'm being honest i'm quite the good target for that kind of monetizations, only reason i'm doing fine is I manage to control myself and remind myself, but if I didn't actively made an effort I know i would spend ridiculous amount of money in those games

[fallow frost]

yh, and its somewhat rare guilt admission from whaler

[tall oar]

Wall of text incoming

You can get Stardew Valley, The Henry Stickmin Collection, South Park: The Stick of Truth, Resident Evil 2, The Witcher III, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy, Sid Meier’s Civ V, Far Away, Enter the Gungeon, Dying Light, Resident Evil 7, Devil May Cry 5, Postal: Brain Damaged, Bioshock Infinite, Disco Elysium, ABZU, Frostpunk, Rain World, Shantae and the Pirate’s Curse, THE LONGING, SUPERHOT, Paper Beast, Assassin’s Creed Black Flag, Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, Sky Rogue, Sunset Overdrive and Terraria for less than the average price for Doot, and you'll get infinite more fun value.

[weary arrow]

I love most of those games!

[lyric otter]

Thinking about a bunch of games that sold cheap, and then had years of free updates

[hushed grotto]

I remember this thread, honestly glad I could come accross such testimonies before I got any kind of decent income, I may have fallen into the trap otherwise

[weary arrow]

Terraria and stardew with free mods are the best

[lyric otter]

not saying Lava needs to give stuff away for free, but he loves to pretend he's generous

[last basin]

Yeah same. I shouldn't have invested in the previous packs but it was single $20 donations spread out to support a single developer. Then the sunken fallacy kicked in

[lyric otter]

well Terraira even without mods has been so many free updates, im shocked they keep doing them

[fallow frost]

then there be also a hat in time, subnautica (mind that 1st is great, 2nd one meh), Ys (series), mages of mystralia and satisfactory

[last basin]

No Man's Sky. The lie that actually turned around. And is still doing free updates

[lyric otter]

Yep

[hushed grotto]

I started terraria when I was in high school, and I still play it to this day sometimes, honestly best buy with minecraft lol

[weary arrow]

Oh I love that game too

I should really play more of my collection and less mobile games, I have so many games on my backlog

[flint meadow]

the final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final update

[weary arrow]

I don't think I'll play them in my lifetime

[hushed grotto]

I swear each update is the last one that you don't believe them anymore

which i'm glad still

[flint meadow]

exactly

i lov it

[tall oar]

I have over 2k playtime hours in Terraria

[last basin]

Honestly that probably is the best idea

[tall oar]

Great game

[flint meadow]

2.8K on terraria + tmod

[weary arrow]

I've also played through calamity and other mods, they're like full new terraria games

[nocturne pagoda]

this post is so heartbreaking to me because I can relate SO hard

[last basin]

Play more of the games you own and don't need to sink more money into

[tall oar]

Terraria with Mods is super duper fun

[weary arrow]

I want to play terraria again now

[flint meadow]

i want 1.3 mods on 1.4

[tall oar]

Terraria has pets and you can get them for FREE!

[weary arrow]

They released mods on 1.4 didn't they?

[hushed grotto]

something something infernum something something fargo's

[weary arrow]

via steam

[flint meadow]

like old ancients awakened or shitty flash game type mods

[lyric otter]

yeah go play a game from actual generous devs that don't put gacha in their game

[tall oar]

Oh my Goodness Ancients Awakened ❤️

I LOVED it

One of my faves, despite having some balancing issues

[weary arrow]

I think I'm going to temporarily forget this game and go play Terraria, I forgot all about it

[novel pewter]

This is why I like xenoblade 2 all the gambling but freely helps scratch the gambling itch

[flint meadow]

they are making a recode for 1.4

they are working on pre hardmode rn

[tall oar]

Yeah I'm following their Discord

It's going super slow though

[lyric otter]

just play Xcom if you want to get fucked up by gambling

[hushed grotto]

I still have yet to do a zenith seed on master, i'm just pushing it back all the time lol

[lyric otter]

99% chance to hit means it will certainly fail

[last basin]

Oh God yeah

[lyric otter]

same story in FF14 gathering lol

90% fails 3 times in a row

[flint meadow]

idleon obols

[lyric otter]

lol

[last basin]

Had that happen in a mission where the only thing between my guy with a shotgun and a gray was a shopping cart and I missed

[flint meadow]

imagine a 1e-3094309530935 chance for a 540954095409x everything pet

costs 539853895389$

in idleon

[fallow frost]

oddliy enough though, this single feedback post has kidna become 2nd main channel of talking 🙂

[flint meadow]

true

[hushed grotto]

I'm fine with it

[leaden haven]

that's how many people are waiting for lava's response..

[flint meadow]

5165 messages

and more

[lyric otter]

cause it's a total shitshow and theres less people in here defending the gacha then in general

[tall oar]

It's more chill here than the (de)gen chat though

Let it stay that way

[last basin]

Can actually read the messages here

[flint meadow]

imagine a windows XP card that is similar to the idle skilling bluehero card

[tall oar]

Windows is still muted lmao

[flint meadow]

ik

[hushed grotto]

while I want to stay on copium and think he hasn't said anything for a whole day because he's actually fixing this mess, I sitll cannot defend anything lol

[leaden haven]

wasnt he unmuted?

[tall oar]

Yes, but he got another one

[flint meadow]

he removed the anti p2w statement on steam desc

[leaden haven]

damn. not deserved tbh

[lyric otter]

I literally dont know how he fixes this mess

[hushed grotto]

yeah, another reason why i'm low on copium, I like the game but

[tall oar]

It's gonna be super difficult to fix this mess

[flint meadow]

make all pets limited edition

[hushed grotto]

it might be the end of the journey

[flint meadow]

and add new more f2p ones

[leaden haven]

dont think he is, seeing the current situation. in my eyes he's just abandoning ship atm

[hushed grotto]

because if this isn't fixed, it will only get worse

[flat dirge]

I just keep laughing at the idea that this one didn’t get an iOs release because Apple saw it and just said no (just a theory)

[weary arrow]

I only just started playing a while ago, should I quit and go to another game?

[last basin]

I mean there are ways. He would just upset those that dumped money into this update

[flint meadow]

imagine if it did

[weary arrow]

It seems pretty dire reading up on it

[hushed grotto]

Any other time i would recommend idleon, but i cannot in good conscience recommend it right now

[tall oar]

This would be the best ending, as that would cause either a good ending or a bad ending:
Good ending - Lava backpedals on the update and makes appropriate changes so that they support the AppStore terms
Bad ending - Lava ceases development for iOS

[flint meadow]

me and my friend like looking for memes about idleon the idle dumpster fire

[flint meadow]

imagine all ther platforms refute other idleon updates

and the servers commit roblox and melt

[leaden haven]

all signs point to the bad ending since he doesnt care anymore for when apple releases

[last basin]

Exactly

[flint meadow]

refund all whales

[tall oar]

I've already decided not to play the game anymore

[flint meadow]

and unupdate (Downdate?)

[tall oar]

Change the world, my final message

Goodbye

There are many other good idle games to pickup

[amber stream]

Yes, but reputation can be reclaimed by open communication and transparency, oh wait

[tall oar]

Clicker Heroes, Cookie Clicker, Idling to Rule the Gods, Trimps

[flint meadow]

antimatter dimensions

[last basin]

How would he realistically do that though?

[flint meadow]

idek

[tall oar]

Super unlikely to happen

[flint meadow]

credit card histroy

and refund hitroy

on steam

[tall oar]

I played it for a while but ultimately stopped idek why

Right it's also on steam

[flint meadow]

same

[tall oar]

Man so much shit is going on the past weeks

[flint meadow]

are other games going down

or like the new york thing

and canada wildfire

[tall oar]

That's one thing

There's Netflix cracking on password sharing

[flint meadow]

rampant consumerism and inflation

[tall oar]

The Reddit API fiasco

[flint meadow]

true

atleast i don't have netflix

[tall oar]

Neither do I

[flint meadow]

and i don't use 3rd party app

for reddit

[tall oar]

I never unironically used Reddit

Aside from maybe to get information whenever I was looking for something

But I never actively participated in any discussion

[hushed grotto]

I pretty much use reddit soely when i'm looking up something that doesn't have a clear answer or is a bit specific

like recommendations for reading, or if I have a specific issue it can be useful

[fallow frost]

same, I may occasionally check on invidual posts now if those come in search results but beside that, I will never again log into reddit

[tender ridge]

you look up information ironically?

[tall oar]

Please don't nitpick my words 😅

[fallow frost]

well, some old older reddit posts do have quality stuff; just steer clear of politically infested ones

[tall oar]

We all know what I meant

r/funny

[fallow frost]

or, reading airz23 posts from tales from tech support

[upbeat yoke]

nearly more negative reviews today then yesterday

[fallow frost]

and its now 43% positive for 30 days

[novel pewter]

I think I'm going to decide what I do once lava speaks up assuming they do depending on their answer

[radiant glacier]

this is how 100 bucks spend look like with one time very rare. Got the luck of my life and beeing addicted again

[lime marsh]

Arcade shop bonuses changed

[fallow frost]

funnily, that €20 package gave exact companions, how does it feel that you spent 5x more

[blissful minnow]

bro, i offer very gud trade, sheepie for slug

[fallow frost]

yh, only saving on that pack is that there be blue gems and wings along

[radiant glacier]

would sell my first born for this trade

[last basin]

I mean statistically speaking (if the listed ones are to be believed) even if he gave one free daily pull on a 10 week rotation your odds of getting doot aren't the best

[blissful minnow]

damn, i had to ask for a crystal custard too

[fallow frost]

I gonna bet there is 999 weak impulse spenders for every wealthy enough to be able to spent irresponsible

[lyric otter]

feel like Lava has poor impulse control with how he prices his MTX

[fallow frost]

and really wealthy ones dont spend on pixel gachas, there is no gains on that investment

[blissful minnow]

my only addiction is sleeping

i'm a little eepy

[last basin]

If you've said "just once more" and are still doing it you are addicted

[fallow frost]

generally stupid rich are ones inheriting horribly bad parents , or getting lottery lucked

[radiant glacier]

you may have my last pants too, lost it already to paypal to pay my debts

Some people also do something its called work. Like you do something 8 hours a day and get money to buy such packages, just wanna mention they also exist

[lyric otter]

doesnt change the monetization is still predatory

[tall oar]

People who get a constant pay flow don't just casually decide to dump 300$ in a game

[fallow frost]

yh, do read cautionary tale of https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/7jmezv/a_whale_of_a_tale/

[last basin]

They do. They also pay taxes, pay for food, shelter, etc... and probably have 2 jobs just to survive

[fallow frost]

average income guy who managed rake 16k into dept over pixels (within 1 year)

[radiant glacier]

for me the worst thing to expect is that he will implement a pity without considering pulls people already done.

[lyric otter]

The fact there's people out there who can drop a few hundred bucks on the game and not be hurt by it does not really make up for the fact there are people with gambling addictions who -will- be hurt by these kinds of things.
Also, I just think it's kind of greedy regardless to have systems players can dump an indefinite amount of money into without getting what they want

[leaden haven]

[last basin]

I mean chip are like that but at least there's a weekly rotation that offers guaranteed chips if you have the resources. I still hate that system tbh but at least there was a way to get guaranteed chips for the f2p people

[fallow frost]

and, generally its very predatory gambling model too; essentially once victim pays once to system and fails to obtain, victim is very likely to spend again, and again until succeed ...because once stepped on spending path it would be real shame to quit middle

[tall oar]

There's a reason gachas are frowned upon

Noone asked for this

[fallow frost]

and yeah, chips are bad ,but manageable and not stupidly OP ...unlike companions

[radiant glacier]

one reason why i started idleon that there were only convenience shop items. I spend since 2021 around 300 bucks on idleon, bought all convenience items and i was happy. Nothing more i need. But new system kinda fucks all things up

[fallow frost]

happens likely tomorrow

[novel pewter]

Aww well time to go back to another idle game called warframe

But on a serious note isn't idleonmmo now technically an 18+ game due to the gambling

[green nexus]

Look at the gambling tag in steam, idleon is the first one on the list for me

[silk edge]

well on my to.. and on a mates steam user.. and he has not even play the game at all XD

[fallow frost]

also, idleon is on top of top sellers gambling list

[willow quail]

Did idleon have gambling tag before yesterday?

[silk edge]

nop

[willow quail]

Now I have gambling as a recommended tag on my steam

[graceful imp]

didn't need it before yesterday

[willow quail]

Dang

[tall oar]

If you play IdleOn you will have recommendations for other games that involve Gamba

[granite rover]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1039171166406975609/1118931174342017024/amogus-plus.gif

[ocean egret]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1039171166406975609/1118931174342017024/amogus-plus.gif

[tall oar]

[carmine sphinx]

This new update is horrible as it is just gamebreaking for a game that isn’t that long to begin with. The new companions are vastly too OP and the games progression is thousands of times different just based on your luck and not your gameplay/activity/strategy (lava doesn’t seem to like to reward those that log in daily in events either, making them also luck based…) Unlike almost all other “luck” based aspects of the game you cant* get them at any point but they are timed and none of the other “game buffs” give you near the same benefits of some of these companions (including those other than king doot). The new meta is do ones companion rolls weekly and don’t waste time playing until you have the good companions, even if they switch you should just wait as any time you spend playing without their buffs will be practically wasted

[paper crow]

Lava still hiding?

[gray gale]

reminder to leave reviews on all platforms of your love for the game atm 🙂

[paper crow]

Ummmm okay.

[radiant glacier]

Would love the Option for gem/ Green gem purchase to Made a untradeable pet tradeable ( still earn Money) but you allow people with gaming Addiction to reroll

[novel pewter]

Could you imagine if trading was done like pokemon wonder trading

[opal lake]

of course 🙂

[vernal walrus]

green sugar? i wonder if it tastes minty

[exotic apex]

Dont you still pick what pokemon you send out

So noones gonna send out their doot

[vernal walrus]

bro that's expensive, i'll just stick to discount sugar 😮