#lategame-chat-w5πŸŒ‹-w6🌸

1 messages Β· Page 1081 of 1

snow obsidian
#

There no limit?

stuck tiger
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Dont forget to lvl carrying cap LOL

bleak gazelle
#

Yes and no? Each round has an opportunity cost which affect your theoretical maximums. But correct, there's no limit to the actual bonuses you can get

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So it's all just a matter of time efficiency

snow obsidian
#

Ah

bleak gazelle
#

at some point you'll finish (or get close enough to finishing) cooking and you'll probably wish you hadn't taken so many cooking bonuses LUL

#

You can do a bravery (and justice) run every 20 hours

snow obsidian
#

Ohh

bleak gazelle
#

More afk time spent on the monuments give better starting bonuses, as well as overall afk time for bigger bonuses (more swords/rethrows) and those will help you get farther for bigger and better bonuses

snow obsidian
#

Yea

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I have more important things to afk unfortunately

hoary temple
bleak gazelle
#

getting the 80 hour bonus should only take half a day with all 10 and the 750hour bonus is like ~3 days, pretty worth it. after that you can go back to other things NODDERS

stuck tiger
#

Def not the first time im doing this nuh uh

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

That would do it lol i came back from doing math to the map begging for christ

hoary temple
hoary temple
stuck tiger
hoary temple
stuck tiger
hoary temple
hoary temple
stuck tiger
hoary temple
stuck tiger
bleak gazelle
#

why do y'all use replies when you're the only ones talking wuhh

simple wadi
bleak gazelle
#

makes it so cluttered

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it's even worse on compact LUL

#

just seems like an extra unnecessary step

simple wadi
#

It's like they're holding each other's faces and saying with their eyes, "Hey, this message is directed at you."

hoary temple
hoary temple
# stuck tiger Nope

multikill boost no good without multikill, so thats why its still low, get that dmgGrumblo_Pray

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

Yeah all w5

#

Because of void gear

hoary temple
#

have u been sleeping on stamps and alchamy?

stuck tiger
#

Yeah

hoary temple
#

hows ur accuracy?

stuck tiger
#

Good maxed out acc in arcade to 60%

peak summit
#

Does the bring them back in lamp affect the bell being forwarded in time ?

stuck tiger
#

About 50k to 60k depending on cards

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

Hell no I fixed my acc I can hit most things

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

I don't have it

hoary temple
simple wadi
stuck tiger
#

I'm at like 40 50k health

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

Yeah how can I get the talent

hoary temple
hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

Oh damn OK

#

I got a drive at 12 to 1 so I won't be able to talk

hoary temple
frail vigil
#

Should I take this?

bleak gazelle
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could be useful early on peepoShrug

fallow aurora
#

I think someone said to take it if it pops up from cases 1-15

ember edge
#

I 'just' got Justice unlocked in hole. Should I afk there for a while or use the 4x reward now?

bitter echo
#

is today the last day of xmas event or tomorrow, says ends jan 3rd but idk if tha tmeans its the last day, or jan 3rd itll be gone

stuck tiger
#

Look it done

brave fable
#

now book

bleak gazelle
bleak gazelle
lyric glen
woven bolt
#

Does the altar link you to all gods? Is that why all 3 of mine say unlink? If so how do I know which god I am actually linked to

bleak gazelle
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Altar links are individual and singular (each character gets their own)
Unlink will take you to a menu that shows you what characters are linked to what gods (alternatively, the character select screen shows it, too). You can unlink (up to) all your characters at once, but only twice per weekly reset (or you get a free one when you unlock a new god, as long as you don't leave the map)

woven bolt
#

Appreciate it got it now

night matrix
#

What's the best way to go about farming silver pens?

peak verge
#

Farming crystals with DK

open yacht
#

Around what level should my alchemy bubbles be on average before moving on to w6? Just want to have an idea of what i should be aiming towards

night matrix
obtuse orbitBOT
peak verge
graceful mist
#

do higher islands give more gold in sailing?

peak verge
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The treasures are worth more.

bright pike
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wiki says you can get alot of kills on the Domeo mini boss using DKs Orb and boomerang. does that mean the orb will respawn the miniboss?? just wanna be sure before i do it.

peak verge
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That's universal for all minibosses. You just put down your orb, farm as many kills as you can and then kill the boss when the orb is almost running out.

knotty raptor
silent birch
knotty raptor
#

no but ok

silent birch
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Oki

bright pike
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i mean it boost xp and drop rate. but the wiki doesnt say "more boss kills" it just says "more kills". but omg tbh i never thought of that tbh lmaoo. so for domeo. id put orb down, kill a bunch of mobs, then right before the orb goes out i go knock the balls over and kill the bosses?

knotty raptor
#

.....

bright pike
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dont gimme that

knotty raptor
#

thats the entire point of the orb talent

peak verge
knotty raptor
#

you would obviously wait till your dr is at its highest to kill the miniboss

gilded sedge
knotty raptor
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one should not ignore missunderstandment of the wiki

graceful mist
#

best class to push through w5?

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bb?

bright pike
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i mean not really. its good for just getting drops from normal mobs too lol. but i guess i see your point. i just never thought of it. dont use my dk all that much so i didnt realize. i kinda just afk my ES anytime i need loot lol. but sheeeesh, kinda sick. appreciate it guys ❀️

peak verge
graceful mist
#

cool my main pusher is es right now

bleak gazelle
graceful mist
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any particular reason why?

knotty raptor
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which if you have enough dr is techincally another roll if you want to see it that way

graceful mist
#

so i need to 10x my damage before i get there

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alr sounds good thanks

pastel kayak
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@bleak gazelle main from yesterday

woven bolt
peak verge
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You should be able to just fly through W5.

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Speedrun to w6.

woven bolt
#

Ok

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Im at 19k kills/hr like 5 maps in

peak verge
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Push actively.

umbral salmon
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so broke πŸ˜­πŸ’€

bleak gazelle
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plenty of health though

fickle lake
#

will idleon ever update GuyMontag

fallow aurora
#

Next week Grumblo_Pray

digital lava
#

Can you use Time Candy on any of the W5 skills? Divinity maybe?

bleak gazelle
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candies are primarily for w1-2 skills or fighting NODDERS

stable temple
#

Candies are for fractal island

fallow aurora
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When will we get fractal afk%

stuck tiger
#

IM A MURDERER

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I want to make these for slab and too use would that be good or a waste?

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i also want to use it

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thats a waste of the more harder void gear things

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yeah makes sense

misty sandal
zealous willow
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i think 30m minimum for the boss

oblique grove
#

is there a benefit to linking multiple characters to goharut? or is it only the highest afk bonus?

misty sandal
#

No idea of how i increase my damage further tho

wild osprey
#

after all my free spins i finally caved and bought 5 spins, first spin of the gem spin i finally get the 16 slot chest

stable temple
#

Afk at justice get sick damage gains at wave 8++

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Afk at bravery*

misty sandal
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Currently on the vman quest

peak verge
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Alch, stamps, cards, starsigns, po box, equinox, meals, sailing artifacts, divinities, W1 owl, W2 kangaroo, dungeon flurbos, levels/talents etc.

idle rock
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Anyone else having problem with plants not evolving above stage 1 in gaming?

feral arrow
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I think I need help with my damage(I’m early w5)
Can anybody help me?

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I’m currently saving up for void armor

peak verge
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Just go kill the boss.

feral arrow
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What do you mean?

peak verge
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I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. πŸ‘οΈ

feral arrow
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I’m not. My kills per hour is too low in molti area

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I have no idea how I’m gonna kill the boss with that

peak verge
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That's not because of the dmg, it's because of the build and talent allocation.

peak verge
feral arrow
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Ok thank you. Then is my def/acc good enough?

peak verge
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Do you die?

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If not, def is probably good enough.

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I don't remember how high accuracy requirements go by the end of w5 but you should not be in short supply of sources to increase it extremely easily.

feral arrow
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I do die. But I think that’s just because of me not using food. I’m preparing for it.

peak verge
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Well your gear is also.... You know...

feral arrow
#

I know my gear is complete garbage

idle rock
#

Do anyone know about this issue in gaming?

peak verge
feral arrow
#

I have big problems with that

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Trapping is too weird

peak verge
feral arrow
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I have too little critters for anvil tab 4

idle rock
peak verge
peak verge
idle rock
#

Ah okay, thanks

peak verge
#

Also try to see if they evolve in w5 town.

idle rock
#

Yeah i will check. But i think i saw the issue. Maybe, if low nuggets can be an issue for this aswell?

peak verge
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Never heard of a correlation.

idle rock
#

Nah still not evolving even if i go check at the actually skill place

rotund talon
#

How much damage do BB or DK need to kill the kruk

viral python
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40m?

rotund talon
#

hmm okay, about halfway there, should I do it on BB or DK, both are almost at the boss door map

viral python
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Bloodnberserker?

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Berserk would be hard since his aoe ability has cd

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Dk or bubo would be better more dmg on bubo is easier to achieve than do on earlier stages

rotund talon
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Okay thanks, DK it is then Bubo not quite there yet

brave fable
wispy birch
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Whats the best ways to inc damage?

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Im 3m away from the 35m i need for kruk

stuck river
#

"Yo, do you remember when you spent half a month farming for a fuscismatia? Well you get 22 in 2 days now"

undone wagon
stable parrot
prisma bone
#

what character is best for the release the hounds cavern thing?

spark stone
prisma bone
#

ty

worldly lagoon
#

be careful watching griffybit vids though he spreads some misinformation and some of his vids are years old and what he talks about may not be correct anymore

silent birch
worldly lagoon
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no idea i stopped watching his vids once he said it's optimal to make 4 warriors

worldly lagoon
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2 dk 2 bb

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which messed up a LOT of people since they followed his guidance and now their accts are more or less screwed lol

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u get a lot more accurate info in this discord, esp in w5-6 questions, avoid gen chat and w1-2

silent birch
#

Hm. So you can stuff 2 bb into kitchen. Makes sense lol
(sarcasm)

worldly lagoon
#

it's like a 2-3 year old video and even then it wasn't smart, now with nmlb some ppl consider running 0 bbs lol

silent birch
worldly lagoon
silent birch
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6

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I play warrior only

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Jk
2 bb
1 dk :c

worldly lagoon
#

that's an easy fix

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just save gems for an elite swap token next time it's in limited shop

stable parrot
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Can’t wait for master class swaps that cost 2000 gems per token or something

silent birch
solemn ore
#

Hey, do we have a sailing guide anywhere? Checked pins and tips'n tricks, but couldn't find anything.

marble lotus
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is this how I'm supposed to get evos

sour stream
#

stupid question how do you turn on kitsune? i have clicked, double clicked, click and hold... nothing works

worldly lagoon
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same goes for turning it off

sour stream
#

got it thank you!

worldly lagoon
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np at all

stuck tiger
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Today is the day but after i finish getting some more damage

worldly lagoon
#

gl!

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

KRUNK beat my ass

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into a corner

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and bullied me

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HELP

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

Lower dmg at moles before boss

worldly lagoon
#

ur dmg is too low

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for dk u want like 40m min

stuck tiger
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but how

worldly lagoon
#

skills

hoary temple
worldly lagoon
#

both of these images are in channel pins

stuck tiger
#

Fuck this is going to suck

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But ohwell

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

worldly lagoon
#

this one doesn't scale super well

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this one scales super well becaues you get so much movement speed for potions and statues

hoary temple
#

anyways time to let this guy do some needed skilling...

stuck tiger
stuck tiger
#

This is with pots

lyric glen
# stuck tiger NO LOGS WHAT

Go to the Hole, get some of the engineer and conjurer bonuses done. Those will jump you at least 30M to 50M dmg based on your gear.

hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

YAY i forgot i ACTUALLY got an opal

tardy yew
lyric glen
# stuck tiger YAY i forgot i ACTUALLY got an opal

Good. Idr which nodes they are exactly, but for engineer there's gonna be a node soon where you get a dmg buff based on the amount of gold dust gathered from the well.

Then from Conjurer you'll get even more dmg via weapon power.

What're your salt ranks at?

stuck tiger
#

one sec

#

where should i put opals

hoary temple
hoary temple
stuck tiger
#

I got another opal

worldly lagoon
# stuck tiger I got another opal

u generally wanna stack all ur opals on one character at a time, because every 10 u use gives you a bonus, explorer is good early on but engineer may be best to "max" first since all the big hole bonus's come from him

stuck tiger
#

YAY I did it

misty sandal
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Almost done the most difficult part for vman

rotund zinc
#

When does divinity speed up? Had everyone on it for days now and my highest has gone from 15 to 17 πŸ₯²

junior remnant
#

probably when you get a fair bit forward in the sailing

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there's a lot of treasure things there that give massive divinity gain boosts

sharp bobcat
#

in terms of exp tho it's very long

rotund zinc
#

Once the Christmas event ends i won't even need to log on bc this is taking so long 😭

sharp bobcat
#

normally you put all you chars on mantra till you get vitalic

patent quest
#

How do you unlock blobfish I just finished the trapping questline

worldly lagoon
patent quest
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Ok thx

worn tide
#

Just got to world 5, am I supposed to place everyone in div instead of labs?

fallow aurora
vocal portal
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if i place the shrines in town, would they get leveled up if i put my characters afk in justice?

exotic musk
#

think so

echo crag
#

yeah, hole is part of w5

proud olive
#

When unlocking new tier plants. Kisune on or off?

bleak gazelle
#

on, faster plants means more picks means more rolls

sharp crest
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does thiswhich ones should i go for?

vocal portal
#

red

#

exp and measure boost

bleak gazelle
sharp crest
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ty

rotund talon
#

Is it worth using sailing boats that are significantly worse than my others? Just got a new one that I can’t upgrade too much rn

bleak gazelle
#

can't upgrade the captains if they're not sailing to islands YEP

rotund talon
#

Well only have the lowest captain in there rn, he gonna get replaced asap anyway

proud pumice
#

even if it gives less resources, a new boat still has the same chance for a new artifact

lyric glen
bleak gazelle
#

that's pretty much all there is to it

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!guide has a few tips but, not much you can minmax about it besides checking as often as possible

lyric glen
bleak gazelle
#

regular card DR doesn't affect dungeon cards, best to just run on DK for best chance to complete

#

no cap afaik

mild plinth
#

So, ehm. I am looking for a guild. My primary requirement for this guild is the 'Bestone' skill being maxed... About to craft my first Godshard gear. And want to limit the failed upgrade stones.

mild plinth
#

Cant search for this particular requirement in the guild recruiting tab...

bleak gazelle
#

join us grumblo_steal

simple wadi
#

I tell you what - go to Penguin 20 in W1 town and I'll fix that

mild plinth
#

I am here now

simple wadi
mild plinth
#

Yeah, i did, and was instantly invited by a lvl 3 clan

simple wadi
#

Leave again, lol. Mine is 41

mild plinth
#

Hmmm... something is wrong

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Gonna restart the game brb

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Hmmmm... suddenly town is back to event....

simple wadi
mild plinth
#

Thanks! πŸ™‚

#

Now I can finally start on my godshard gear.

lyric glen
bleak gazelle
#

you like the name grumblo_steal

heavy socket
#

till how much % of your max dmg do you try to onesjot with the last sword?

bleak gazelle
#

i do about 5% NODDERS of course, sometimes I get cucked at 1% and sometimes I'm fine to 8%

fallow aurora
#

theres a calculator for it 1 sec

heavy socket
#

ok am i really that stupid but i made a copy and what now?

#

cause by input your value i cant copy a jason as normal so do i input my dmg or what to do?

fallow aurora
#

go to "first try sword odds" at the bottom and input ur min/max damage

heavy socket
#

oh thx, didnt knew google dox has the multable workspace feature too, only use exel at work πŸ˜…

#

thx though

obsidian briar
#

Update when

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I saw that bro

#

Don't act like I didnt

fierce cargo
#

good

obsidian briar
#

I've also lost all motivation to play this game

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I don't know why

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It seems too repetitive

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And I personally think that battle cats is better

fierce cargo
#

cya

unborn mauve
#

better to open all sailing chests when you get them or wait for them to upgrade?

fierce cargo
#

open asap

#

stacking just makes you lose chests

unborn mauve
#

alr thanks

onyx mist
#

the kattle has been kruked

dry nebula
#

Congrats

peak verge
#

Krunk that soulja boy

final verge
#

why am i not getting higher nuggets what is it based on?

red mauve
#

Both ie and it show your min and max nugget rolls.

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IT even has a counter for failed rolls.

final verge
#

i completely forgot about equinox

modest mason
#

Question fir the hole. Is there a reason to hold off on claiming the hive layers? Is there a power of 10 engineer upgrade like for the motherlode?

peak verge
#

No reason to hold off.

modest mason
#

Sweet thanks

#

I messed up on the motherlode so i dont wanna do it again 😦

peak verge
#

Wdym?

hoary temple
#

time for his gear upgradeGrumblo_Pray

peak verge
#

Oh hey, you got Vman. Nice job big man.

hoary temple
hoary temple
#

fixed my printing aswell, so went from 600 fishies an hour to 18,8kPinchyPic and others got bigger nr too

peak verge
#

Man's moving up in the world.

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So what next? Back to divinity?

wintry lichen
#

for unlocking the last 2 plant mutations, should i be spamming low 1-3% chances or saving it up for a long period of time?

hoary temple
wintry lichen
#

say less

peak verge
#

If you wanna sweat a bit harder, you can try it after every single plant you pick.

wintry lichen
#

speaking of gambling im redoing early islands for uh eldritch? artifacts but i get spammed with the super low level chests at like 0.07%

#

should i turn my minimum chest up to the 2nd lowest?

peak verge
#

No. Don't touch minimum chests. Same as with gaming at low % odds, you're aiming for accuracy by volume.

wintry lichen
#

sir yes sir

peak verge
#

Make sure you get Eldritch Tusk first to ease your burdern.

wintry lichen
#

do they upgrade themselves over time? just wondering about like leaving it overnight

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bc it fills in like 2hrs normally

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we are locked in

peak verge
#

Only if you have "unending loot" but that talent is only useful in like 0.000000001% of situations. You should never use it otherwise.

wintry lichen
#

ah im pretty sure i dont ill just take the loss on sleep chests

peak verge
#

Not much of a loss.

hoary temple
peak verge
wintry lichen
#

oo i have both

#

looking good then time to spam chests and plants ty!

peak verge
#

Up to the line, you can get all artifacts in like a day or two. After the line, it's gonna take weeks to get a single artifact.

wintry lichen
#

would you go for eldritching the ones ive got? (up to weatherbook) or going for a full set before bothering to upgrade them

peak verge
peak verge
#

Welp, you'd better get that 3x printing from divinity.

hoary temple
#

vials will take awhile tho so just getting them as high as feels resonable for now

peak verge
peak verge
wintry lichen
#

i think ill try for gummy yeah that one was such a big bonus when i got it and im still getting better captains/ships for later islands

peak verge
#

Gummy and Fury are very much in the "it's gonna take a fuckton of chests/time" category.

hoary temple
peak verge
#

You should never have refinery issues ever again now that BM can just stay printing for a bit and keep your stuff permanently running.

#

!gear Also imma be real... you're way past the point of dementia and void. GuyMontag

obtuse orbitBOT
#
Gear Recommendations
hoary temple
peak verge
#

Fuck that

#

I finished W6 and I only crafted lustre/diabolical yesterday to add to the slab.

peak verge
#

Troll is an absolute bitch to get because of annoying materials but if it's any consolation, you only need to craft it once.

worthy elm
#

Can someone pick yes or no

peak verge
#

Shoes and pants are easy if you can get them. Shirt needs pearls which are annoying and Hat needs gold twines which are just rng candy gamble.

hoary temple
peak verge
#

Consulation? That a w7 skill? happytroll

worthy elm
#

No

hoary temple
peak verge
#

Ah, constellations.

hoary temple
peak verge
#

Did you not go claim all your free ones?

hoary temple
#

doin bad

peak verge
#

you can pump w3 to 6/8 and w4 to 3/7, c'mon, don't be a baby

hoary temple
#

omg bigg skull poo

peak summit
#

this is so ass i failed 72.9% 3 times in a row and then got the 10% to get reset back to 0

hoary temple
peak summit
#

how fun

hoary temple
peak verge
lyric glen
peak verge
hoary temple
wintry lichen
#

i have my guys liked to arctis and harriep from the hole but my 3d printer is showing yellow text not purple? am i missing something or is it just a bug

peak verge
#

The UI can bug sometimes and show the wrong symbol.

hoary temple
peak verge
hoary temple
#

cuz thats where its kind of an issue... cant make it yet

peak verge
#

I'd say get shoes and pants if they're easy to get. You can upgrade them all the way up to Divine for free basically.

#

Oh you're that behind on Nullo. Mb pimp, I thought you just have issues getting it in large amounts.

#

Update your IE and let me have a look around.

hoary temple
peak verge
#

Omni is gonna help you if the rng procs in your favour.

hoary temple
peak verge
hoary temple
#

ur eyes will hurt

bleak gazelle
#

idk, your minibosses are looking better than mine KEKW

peak verge
#

Go do all your boss key quests, just get them out of the way.

#

Hi ace. πŸ‘‹

lost plank
#

What should I do?

peak verge
#

Those mean very little without the full context of your Hole progress.

lost plank
#

Ah, you're probably right

#

Should I post my toolbox?

peak verge
#

Did you get to this part?

bleak gazelle
#

I also wouldn't go max forge cap unless you have the prints to back it up and are going for max vials/etc

#

the node + 1 or 2 enhancements is enough for most things

lost plank
#

Is 1.5m godshard good enough or should I not have done that

#

I need so many wishes lol GuyMontag

lost plank
peak verge
#

It's good. Get M9 and move to engie.

lost plank
#

I'm at engi 13

peak verge
#

Engie is gonna take a while but the schematics are needed. I'm only now getting Conjo around the forge upgrades, after having finished all the others.

lost plank
#

Do I reset to engi then reset points? Or should I reset my points first for hopefully more wishes

peak verge
#

Engie after you get to M9. You'll get your wishes back long before you're done with engie, so you can just reset conjo points later if you messed up something.

keen hedge
#

Shouldnt they be Purple?
Is this a bug?
How do i fix this?

bleak gazelle
#

common visual bug that became more common with pocket div

#

though it is good to occasionally check lab and make sure everything is in place

keen hedge
bleak gazelle
#

it will occasionally break if the nodes are right on the edge of your connection range

graceful mist
#

when should i go for a void walker?

lost plank
#

W4 world hub, far right

#

A blob will give your maestro missions

peak verge
#

Too many buffs and systems got added in a fairly short amount of time and people get enough dmg to kill W5 boss easier than before, so it's a bit harder to estimate when you should take a break and get Vman.

graceful mist
#

i just got to w5 a couple days ago - doing div grind rn

peak verge
#

@hoary temple

W1
-Take literally every single stamp you have in order and pump levels as much as you can, you should be drowning in some of the more basic materials. (also do some of the quests that unlock more stamps)
-Upgrade your crystalin stamp, try aiming for at least 100 or more.
-Take ES and max out Anvil on everyone.

W2
-Your alchemy is so criminally low, you have no clue how much this hurts both your print samples and your overall dmg/stats. Check Scoli's autoreview and it should tell you exactly what to improve.
-Unlock all Vials up to W6, you're denying yourself good bonuses.

W3

-Get your boulder tower to lvl ~30-35 and frozen tower to ~20-25. Should help you get to some higher waves and give you better souls until you fix your salts and can upgrade poison/kraken/void.
-Level Skilled Dimwit and unlock Midas (prayers).
-You have steel/nature traps unlocked, why did you set cardboard and silk traps all around?

W4

-Get Cabbage and Corndog to lvl 11.
-Fix your pet spice lineups. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/193tGCv_nJpgleOzQ2jkO9KEpSh8JcOZLdjDolD9Z0FI/htmlview)
-Unlock more meals/pet upgrades.
-See if you can slowly inch closer towards Infinite Star Signs in Rift.
-Send everyone to Equinox until they're lvl 30 in mining/chopping/fishing/catching to make all cards passive. Fishing is free since it doesn't require efficiency but the others might need some tools.

W5

-Put all your boats on unlocking ancient Tusk on 1st island and then Tablet on 4th island.

Misc:

-Finish your W2 merits and W3 boss merits to unlock scarf.
-W3 star signs for Wave 11 on 4 classes and killing bloodbones (use mirror) should be free.
-W4 star signs for lvl 120 and lvl 15 cooking should be free.
-Go farm DR obols and dr/crystal/cdr cards at some point.
-Do your dungeons, you're missing out on a lot of free stats.

#

These are more or less bullet points.

Use !review and Scoli should give you the proper order of doing things, otherwise you might start working on stuff that's not particularly efficient for your current progression.

hoary temple
peak verge
#

Get some people to carry you until you reach rank 40 and then you can just solo the dungeons.

worn tree
hoary temple
worn tree
#

oh I see thx

#

well im not close to that I can't do the 180 orb on dk

peak verge
peak verge
hoary temple
peak verge
#

why the fuck did I recommend that to you then bruh lmao I'm tired.

hoary temple
worn tree
hoary temple
#

nice, if i beat this dk one im prob good until 16th tbh

peak verge
#

Damn, so I just had foresight like that. Being 1 card off high poker hands got me tweaking into new super powers.

#

GIVE ME A BREAK MAN

hoary temple
#

ughh 168/180 smhh, well il try reseting and giving this dude void weapon and library books tomorrow then he shall be immortal

stone token
#

is right hand of action in maestro even worth it cuz my lvl for all skillis is higher than my vman

bleak gazelle
#

it's how you get the big prints

#

that's also basically like 90% of maestro's power

peak verge
#

In other words: "Fix your Maestro levels." happytroll

viral python
stuck river
#

completed sailing πŸŽ‰

#

officially done now

#

what do i do with my ships now

glossy pike
#

done (for now)

#

probably try to farm gold for dmg buffs/level ships to maroon ships and maybe try to just get all endercaptains i suppose

stuck river
#

yeah i got 5/20 ender captains

#

justice really carried hard on artifact%

glossy pike
#

same boosted them all to like 0.5% - 1%

#

i got 3 or 4 left

stuck river
#

well time to work on full godshard ig

#

(my last sb is in plat)

glossy pike
#

my last 3 people are armourless

stuck river
glossy pike
#

scoilis auto review says im late w6 so it is what it is

stuck river
#

im mid w6 only damn

#

i wonder whats the reason hmmmmmm

glossy pike
#

oh no let me guess 6k stamp lvls

stuck river
glossy pike
#

think im close to 9k now

vital flower
#

Does getting the shrine world tour lab node even matter if you have the Moai head artifact?

pale whale
stuck river
#

you can level up shrines from everywhere im the world instead of only the map

stuck river
oblique jasper
stuck river
oblique jasper
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Omni procs carried me

#

And I was claiming afk time a lot for hourly clicks

stuck river
#

u dont have ghampters?

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Oh yeah that too. Only got it to 100% when sailing was mostly done though

stuck river
#

mine is still at like 96%

oblique jasper
#

You have the 100k stalk?

stuck river
#

no lmao

oblique jasper
#

Yeah that’s why

glossy pike
#

gummys on beanstalk carried me lol

#

80% chance is crazy

oblique jasper
#

Better things to focus on though. Especially now that you finished sailing

stuck river
#

Yeah

#

Im working on deathnote rn

#

(i refuse to touch grind time)

oblique jasper
#

I just got done with superchows so I’ll leave deathnote alone until it’s time to grind eclipse skulls

stuck river
#

im working on ecilpse rn, toons are randomly grinding maps for absolutely no real reason

oblique jasper
#

You do w6 too?

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Same

stuck river
#

and skipped small nutto for obvious reasons

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Has good bonuses though

stuck river
#

i have 1 toon on justice and thats all

#

oh 2 sorrry

oblique jasper
#

You finish lab?

stuck river
#

i can finish that in 3 days if i want to but meh

#

(i just yeeted vman in lab thanks for reminding me)

oblique jasper
#

I’m at 1800 hundred purely from bubo. Haven’t put another character in lab in forever

#

Why vman?

oblique jasper
#

Oh u close

stuck river
# oblique jasper Why vman?

when i did lab grind vman was catching up from right hand, it has 109 lab levels rn xd, rest are in the 190s

oblique jasper
#

Ah makes sense

#

Mine are probably all equal

stuck river
#

Bb is at 130 due to cooking

#

i should probably put bb in lab

oblique jasper
#

Should be getting the ladle Dream done in about a week

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

What ladle count did you do it at

stuck river
#

Just for the memes i should do rift

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

I’m getting 7kGuyMontag

#

Maybe I held off too long

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Yeah

#

Wish it was 7k per hour

fallow aurora
#

is that with the cooking po box proc?

stuck river
oblique jasper
oblique jasper
stuck river
stuck river
oblique jasper
oblique jasper
stuck river
#

yeah i should probably start using my gilded stamps(im at 45)

oblique jasper
#

45 cooking eff stamp level or 45 gilded stamps

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Ah ok

#

Your making me doubt my 7k number though, lemme double check rq

stuck river
#

did you chow w6

oblique jasper
#

Yeah I chowed everything

stuck river
#

i still havent chowd w6

#

bb didnt push w6

oblique jasper
#

I also have higher afk gain. I might have the clock cape on him

stuck river
#

lets see if upgrading the stamp helps

oblique jasper
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

That’s the character who gets the most benefit from it lmao

stuck river
#

yeah i need to start from scratch now

oblique jasper
stuck river
#

the good news is i dont have to start from scratch i chowed the first 4 maps

#

woodlins is done in 20 minutes

oblique jasper
#

Yeah you can probably do up to skydoggies pretty quickly

stuck river
#

i need resampling as well

#

damn i got so much to do

oblique jasper
#

What’s your log sample at

stuck river
#

1b, didnt sample for 4 months

oblique jasper
#

Dang mines higher than yours. Embarrassinghappytroll

oblique jasper
#

2.5b

stuck river
#

hold my beer zero

oblique jasper
#

Although my copper print at 3b lol

oblique jasper
stuck river
#

(i dont feel like sampling so im not hitting the button)

oblique jasper
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

You can prob get that higher too

#

Doubt you did much optimizing

stuck river
#

nothing else

oblique jasper
#

How’s your talent levels

stuck river
#

i can get 299 if i want to

#

its 269 now

oblique jasper
#

Yeah so card set and talent would prob get that to 6-7b easy

stuck river
#

ye

oblique jasper
#

Then chips and redeem P.O. Box would help a little

stuck river
#

Po is maxed

oblique jasper
#

What tool do you have

stuck river
#

i do need more wis tho

oblique jasper
stuck river
stuck river
oblique jasper
stuck river
#

aside myriad

oblique jasper
#

Yeah

stuck river
#

how much main stat do you have tho

oblique jasper
#

I’ve been at marble tools for awhile, I should upgrade

stuck river
#

if I bother to do anything, which i dont since its exam period now, the uograde is gonna be huge

oblique jasper
stuck river
#

i need to work on my skills then

#

i nearly hit 60k on dk

oblique jasper
#

What’s your main stat bubbles at

stuck river
#

why are the neglected dudes on 25k

stuck river
oblique jasper
stuck river
#

(im on full starfire minimum)

oblique jasper
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Mine ended beginning of December

stuck river
#

D:

turbid plaza
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Yeah I probably should

#

Might start pearler grind on es

#

Im gfood farming on dk rn because I don’t know what else to do

stuck river
#

im not playing

#

lmao

#

the last time i played aside now is 17 hours ago, when i had in guild promtions

#

and then we have to add 2 days to that

oblique jasper
#

Well hopefully this Thursday will have an update to draw you back in

stuck river
#

im so looking forward for master classes

gilded sedge
oblique jasper
#

Yeah I’m thinking either that or the new caverns will be next update

stuck river
oblique jasper
#

Lava should start off year with a bang

oblique jasper
#

Yeah I’m not looking forward to master classes. I hate new stuff

oblique jasper
gilded sedge
oblique jasper
#

Gonna lose my shit if we get another monument

torpid umbra
#

Aren't we getting one every 5 floors? lel

stuck river
#

i did do kachow statues and my crit damage is very high rn

gilded sedge
stuck river
stuck river
torpid umbra
#

He said grumblo_shh

gilded sedge
stuck river
#

Im gonna lose my shit if next update dosent bring bm master class

oblique jasper
#

I don’t mind the skilling things honestly. Just a bunch of low effort opals

oblique jasper
echo crag
#

BM being first master class would give it high chance of being bad again when you consider how elite classes went

torpid umbra
#

#freetheshit

stuck river
#

Ok then please let dk be first

oblique jasper
#

Was bm first elite class?

stuck river
torpid umbra
#

I just discovered hole 9 so I'm back on the SB pain train

#

5k cards for tier 1 pepeKMS

#

20k dragon statues to farm (at least)

gilded sedge
oblique jasper
stuck river
#

ok my explorer is halfway to f12

torpid umbra
#

I'll retract his wish for $19, peep my etsy page for more spells kekww

stuck river
#

Who tf hit me with pinchy

oblique jasper
torpid umbra
#

I can't hit you with the super pinchy in good conscious even tho I wanna, I'll pinchy myself instead

#

F9 gang gang

stuck river
#

im allowed to pinchy this

torpid umbra
#

yes 🫑

stuck river
#

Zero the main reason thst contributed to my slow saiking progress is the fact that i got 1 lantern in the span of 2 months between september and november

gilded sedge
#

@worldly lagoon insane stalking

oblique jasper
#

Bro just arrived, pinchied, and left

stuck river
#

based

oblique jasper
#

Fr

gilded sedge
#

@worldly lagoon i need help i feel like i'm hardstuck on dr progress

oblique jasper
worldly lagoon
stuck river
oblique jasper
#

My dr went from 26x to 30x today.

#

Pristine charm big

stuck river
#

what did you do

worldly lagoon
#

my dr is hardstuck 52.6x

stuck river
#

oh neat

gilded sedge
worldly lagoon
#

dk

#

dr only matters on dk

oblique jasper
gilded sedge
#

true

oblique jasper
#

Too much luck can be a bad thing

worldly lagoon
oblique jasper
worldly lagoon
#

morrowwind is the elder scrolls game before oblivion, which is the elder scrolls game before skyrim

oblique jasper
#

Yeah ik

#

I played Skyrim and didn’t like it

stuck river
#

damn it

worldly lagoon
#

those old rpgs luck is broken, just never get hit and everything crits, shops always give u best prices etc.

gilded sedge
oblique jasper
#

Yeah I couldn’t 5 skull him either

worldly lagoon
gilded sedge
#

personally i just cant follow very simple instructions correctly so 4 skulls

oblique jasper
#

Reading hard

worldly lagoon
#

i got my last one today lol

#

first time doing minibosses in over a month

oblique jasper
#

Which miniboss obol gives dr

gilded sedge
#

domeo

worldly lagoon
#

w5 miniboss

oblique jasper
#

Oh I don’t have a single obol from him

stuck river
#

i have 2

worldly lagoon
gilded sedge
oblique jasper
#

Read it as big titty domeo for a split second. The brainrot rushed in

gilded sedge
stuck river
hasty tartan
#

Why do tremors wurms have higher stats than w6 mobs, what the fk ICANT

#

This is highlighting my inadequacy

snow kite
#

oh wait i think 4% i remember dice being 11

woven bolt
#

If you lose in monument do you lose all bonuses or just what you earned in that run?

night falcon
#

Is there a guide for justice

empty wharf
#

ive unlocked C10 whats the optimal opal destribution. i have 60

young locust
#

πŸ˜„

viral python
junior dune
young locust
#

I'm not sure... I was getting ~1% doing the higher tier islands and the moment I switched back to this islands I got 99%

solemn ore
proud olive
#

Does divinity offering req decreases overtime?

worldly lagoon
stable temple
#

But you can get chance for refunded offerings bubble

hoary temple
#

11 more portals this timeBobJourneyPickle

#

next time i will get minimum 7 moregrumblo_steal

peak verge
#

Look up some speedrun strats

hoary temple
#
  • some better gear
snow kite
hoary temple
#

ye heard that yesterday, killed him not knowing i needed a skill to make him countπŸ˜”

vale heron
#

Hole

tepid basalt
digital lava
#

What's the gray outline on only part of the gravel bar mean?

bleak gazelle
#

Think it's just a visual indicator of expansion progress, but since there's no cap beyond the initial 14 from the first schematic (that gets removed with the second one), it's just visual

loud cradle
#

!rank

obtuse orbitBOT
#

🚫 tilson, that command is disabled in this channel.

bleak gazelle
#

#bot-commands

hoary temple
worldly lagoon
#

it's okay i only need a lvl 1 measurer irl too

twin pendant
#

Well for most things near you inches is enough

chrome light
#

is there any limit for boss fight max time ? seems like i came to nightmare kattlekruk too early and fight will take some time.

twin pendant
#

No limit afaik. As long as you can kill the moles you can do it

chrome light
#

do they scale with hp ?

twin pendant
#

No they stay the same hp the entire fight

chrome light
#

then probably everything will be fine, es doesnt have problem with aoe clear

oblique thistle
#

guys, what is the best way to get artifacts fast?

chrome light
twin pendant
#

Yeh you should be fine. Be aware of the (low) possibility of a crash tho, so check the fight regularily

oblique thistle
#

i mean i have like 0.1 chance to get tier2 artifacts, is there any guide how to make it faster

bleak gazelle
#

claiming as many chests as possible YEP

oblique thistle
#

should i loot as many low tier chests as possible, or loot only high tier chests

twin pendant
#

Get all your chars extra sailing proc chances 100%+ and you can check sailing 10x every 2h

twin pendant
chrome light
twin pendant
#

And make sure to turn unending loot off, and set your minimum chests to lowest possible.

#

That way you can get double the chests every claim.

#

Turn off = lvl 0 *

chrome light
# twin pendant Turn off = lvl 0 *

always wanted to ask. can i use it in 2 different presets ? for example, skilling preset will have points in unending loot, fighting 0, and switch them when i 'open map' as i need it?

twin pendant
#

You can. It only counts the highest level of your SBs in their current presets

chrome light
#

ok. thanks.

paper sail
chrome light
granite jay
#

What best ring and necklace for world 5 and where to get it???

empty wharf
chrome light
granite jay
#

Ty

astral cipher
#

Is there a tool/site giving us an idea on how much time we need to be from lvl X to lvl X in divinity skill?

thorny nacelle
obsidian hill
#

200m suggmu kills still no recipe πŸ˜”

bleak gazelle
#

I have ___ kills on Suggmas. Why haven't I gotten the recipe yet?
Understand that DN count includes MK, KPK, and other multis which aren't accounted for when you go for loot. Loot is based on base kills so you have to factor all those out. Generally, a good comparison is to look at the number of Royal Urn drops you have. On average, most get it around 1K urns collected (or roughly 1B DN kills if you insist on using this count as a measure).

ornate aspen
#

Hi I'm soon in world 5 so teach me how to do skills in world 5

bleak gazelle
#

Welcome in wave_kitty check out the 3rd πŸ“Œ for a bunch of info for starting W5 and boss requirements

#

!guide has a section for sailing and gaming, too, but it's mostly just waiting and upgrading what you can

bitter echo
#

can i swap the 30% lab xp chips between players before claiming to have them all benefit from them

craggy wadi
#

my 10th char is finally hereGiftmas

worthy ruin
#

has anyone else gotten a 'new' sailing artifact that was the moai head facing the other direction?

#

because I think that's what I saw, but I didn't screenshot because I just woke up and wasn't sure if I did or not

bleak gazelle
#

ancient or higher levels might rotate the direction they're facing peepoShrug

worthy ruin
#

yeah, but the pop wasn't "Ancient" or anything, it was "New"

#

and I already have the moai head at sovereign

craggy wadi
#

show your collection

worthy ruin
#

I checked afterwards, and I didn't see anything new

misty sandal
#

Need to wait a few days before vman become available

#

The last getting 1 million kill on a bloodbone may prove long

brisk breach
#

does idleon toolbox factor in the pocket divinity harriep? it shows 0x on my 3d printer tab for the divinity link

sick sentinel
#

Don't think so

slender lantern
#

Is better chest chance worth getting on a captain?

bleak gazelle
#

not particularly. loot and speed are usually your best as they help you get chests faster and get your more loot to upgrade ships
chest rarity isn't actually that strong

misty sandal
#

How good vman even is

bleak gazelle
#

Pretty good, though you need some general account progress for it to really shine. Usually around mid/late-w5 is a good time to go for it or if you can rush through w6 then get it shortly after that

spark stone
stuck tiger
#

This game pains me i want to fight nightmare chiz but NO

bleak gazelle
#

you want some? happytroll make sure you're killing miniboss

stuck tiger
bleak gazelle
#

gotta pump that DK orb up

stuck tiger
#

How much hp does he have

bleak gazelle
#

?wiki Chizoar

verbal canyonBOT
bleak gazelle
#

2B

stuck tiger
#

i got this

#

i do 20m

#

YAY I GOT BLANKY

bleak gazelle
#

so pink WOW

stuck tiger
#

doggy be napping permanently

#

What should i make i got an extra dk already

bleak gazelle
#

usual advice is 2nd es/sb but kind of up in the air with hole buffs and master classes coming out

#

if you want to be balanced, just make them an archer and mage peepoShrug

stable ridge
#

renew teh bell ever?

chrome light
#

w6 upgrade stones always better than w5 ? or we should use it only after some specific moment (maybe threre is an upgrade which reduce fail chance) ?

bleak gazelle
# stable ridge renew teh bell ever?

When should I be resetting the Bell in the Hole?
At Engineering Level 11, you will unlock the 'Triple Tap Tinkle' schematic which gives a higher chance at +2 levels per ring with a new chance of +3 levels per ring. This is the first point at which it is recommended to do a Bell Reset.
Afterwards, you would only want/need to reset if the bonuses provided by Bell Rings have rng-ed into a bonus you do not want or failed to provide desired levels in a bonus you do want. Alternatively, you can view the average levels per ring you've received through a resource like !review (AutoReview) to see if you would want to try to gamble for more levels/ring.

bleak gazelle
chrome light
#

because WP which overweight base stats ?

bleak gazelle
#

you get more of both with w6 stones

fallow aurora
#

unless u get really unlucky GuyMontag

bleak gazelle
#

hence the 65% up there

hollow gazelle
bleak gazelle
#

lul

rotund zinc
#

Can someone explain to me what breedability is for pets? I don't quite understand and it just seems to give me pink pets lmao

bleak gazelle
#

get pink pet, put in fenceyard, breed multi goes up, increases chance to find next pet

pastel kayak
#

@bleak gazelle main now

bitter echo
#

man im only at 5.35 droprate and it feels so hard to progress past it

#

is there a particular map if i just want to leave my SB afk for plunderous kills?

spring cipher
#

Im currently at the Boss, but am not doing nearly enough damage with my DK which has some mid gear
Any recommendations on how to get the blue souls to get to anvil tab 4 or how to get enough damage in some other way that might be faster?

violet monolith
#

Is it not possible to place shrines in the Hole? I put some down in the justice statue room and they disappeared as soon as I swapped characters.

bleak gazelle
#

Just put them in w5 town if you have the lab node

hard grove
#

How much damage should I get to fight chaotic kattlekruk as vman

night charm
violet monolith
night charm
#

the shrine around the world is the best thing

#

before i only had them around lvl4 now they all lvl 10 and i just placed them in the world town

violet monolith
night charm
#

now i just stay in w5 to farm decen armor for w6

violet monolith
night charm
#

i had huge problem keeping my best dmg char alive

#

he got like 300 damgae with only 3k hp

violet monolith
night charm
#

Es hes lvl 300 now and does 33m damage

#

but i only chose him so i can get the dmg up so i can defeat w5 monsters

#

my other chars arnt even at lvl 200 yet i did a huge mistake

#

and i rushed so far i dont even have enough salt to craft w4 troll armor

#

bc my refinery is complete ass

violet monolith
#

Use Bubo to focus on alchemy. Have them active farm on w4 flombeiges (blue jellyfish) and try to get enough damage that poison cloud one-shots them.

violet monolith
night charm
#

i dont get it

violet monolith
#

Ah. Bubo has an ability that directly gains time for alchemy, and a skill that reduces ability cooldowns on monster kills. Actively farming with it lets you advance through alchemy very quickly.

glossy lodge
#

anyone have tips on how to boost gaming more? ive been in w5 for a few months and am stuck around 1-10m green bits, unsure how to catapault from here

night charm
violet monolith
bitter echo
#

i just got hard scammed, i was given 0 rethrows

twin gulch
#

Hello does anyone know if its a common problem to lose kills in the death note. I've lost eclipse skulls on around 20 mobs, and some have gone from lava skulls to purple. I think it happened after a vman voidrun

bitter echo
#

lost a 2.4x multiplier quite long bravery run...

red mauve
violet monolith
twin gulch
night charm
red mauve
bitter echo
#

this doesnt affect rethrows in any way does it? first time since i unlocked it, was using last sword for most the run then stopped using it near end, and was given 0 rethrows at the end, just an instant fail

red mauve
#

TLDR dont farm death note on a Vman, other class are better at it anyway.

red mauve
#

You can also only RR if you can win.

twin gulch
violet monolith
night charm
bitter echo
#

thanks for the clarification

night charm
#

and i lvl the couldrons as far as i could with my money

violet monolith
zinc torrent
violet monolith
night charm
#

oh thx

hoary temple
#

how do i tell em to stop bringing wood chest?

violet monolith
#

Click on the chest on the left side of the sailing map.

hoary temple
#

ah hah, thx had to refresh map, but now i see

stable ridge
violet monolith
#

It depends on how often you claim sailing time. Collecting more than 20 hours with your ships at minimum sailing time should be the second chest, less than 20 should be the smallest chest.

hollow palm
#

has anyone actually gotten the 9.99T purple gaming bits 21st plant?

violet monolith
red mauve
#

Just like the come back a X lvl quest dialog or the 9999 new char.

warm holly
#

After level 10 explorer and level 10 measurer, I should be aiming for level 18 Engineer right?

peak verge
#

The merry men bruh.

peak verge
warm holly
#

regardless Ill be getting it lol no choice now hahaha thought it was a multikill per tier bonus or something

peak verge
warm holly
#

got it thank you πŸ™‚

bitter echo
#

should i basically always have the giant enemies prayer equipped?

#

also does the all prayers active but 1/5 effectiveness work with that tachion of the titans at all?

peak verge
bitter echo
#

yeah figured as much was just curious if it could spawn giants

#

id been neglecting the giant enemies prayer but realised how free the stuff was with the achievement hunting

#

hitting a bit of a wall with sailing, takes a while to upgrade speed stat even marginally and the artifacts 2nd forms are a fair bit rarer, but at the same time reaching the next island is 4 hours per trip for my fastest ship, and a fair bit worse for every other so unlocking it would take a while

peak verge
#

Which island ?

bitter echo
#

the 25 book talent relic one, 300k distance

peak verge
#

Ah yeah, that's a pretty normal wall to hit.

bitter echo
#

yeah this is what my ideal distances are lookin like at the moment

peak verge
#

Godspeed

bitter echo
#

purrmep is the next one ill unlock in divinity but its gonna take a while, didnt realise i dont have the vial for sailing speed so thats something ill start throwing at the cauldron

proven parrot
#

is BIGGER BOW WOW even worth using in the dawg den in the hole?

bleak gazelle
#

ez max if you have the damage and hp/def

#

only a 10% chance at 100

proven parrot
#

dont have the damage and hp lol

tired berry
#

how should i split my opals invested? how many dudes are currently avaialbe?

tired berry
#

im a pretty casual gamer here

#

is that good? doesnt seem so

turbid plaza
#

Yeah that will get the most value out of each opal because of the magick upgrade

#

Forgot what it’s called but it gives you more exp for each 10(?) opals invested

tired berry
#

k thx

bitter echo
#

huh, if you die to a crystal mob do you basically get no xp from it then?

bleak gazelle
north ocean
#

one of us ????

bleak gazelle
#

surely today Grumblo_Pray

cyan mantle
fallow aurora
#

i got bored bean this week

digital lava
#

At this point, how many DNAs should I get before rolling for chance to get the last two?

sick sentinel
#

Roll low and often, usually recommended just to claim a board then roll

#

If you want to go crazy with it you could roll after every plant. The % returns diminish very fast

worn tree
bleak gazelle
fallow aurora
#

ur gonna get a molti

bleak gazelle
worn tree
bleak gazelle
#

the crit one definitely. the weapon power ones peepoShrug strength might be better at that point, might not be. have to swap and see

worn tree
#

oh shit I had the wrong skeleton one I meant to use the 3%dmg one

#

the weapon power ones seem to be better

#

ok I have something that's pretty good ty

#

gained like 1mil-2mil dmg so def worth

#

is that dmg lowest average or highest

red mauve
#

Lowest.

bleak gazelle
#

ehh, could probably be around 30m if you want to micro some more

red mauve
#

I have heard someone do it at 28M on ES but some people have trouble with much more.

worn tree
#

yeah I need more dmg then kek

bleak gazelle
#

we've had visual proof of someone doing ES at 22m, not sure what the difference is